WEBVTT - Part Two: The Twilight Zone Movie 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.960 M hey everybody. Robert Evans here and for the last 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.160 two years, Behind the Bastards listeners have funded the Portland 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:12.680 Diaper Bank, which provides diapers for low income families. Uh. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.479 Last year y'all raised more than twenty one dollars, which 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.159 was able to purchase one point one million diapers for 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.240 children and families in need in one um. And this 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.479 year we're trying to get two dollars raised for the 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.960 Portland Diaper Bank, which is going to allow us to 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.400 help even more kids. So um, if you want to help, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.920 you can go to bTB fundraiser for pd X Diaper 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.120 Bank at go fund me. Just type and go fund 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.560 me b TB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank. Again, that's 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.159 go fund Me bTB Fundraiser for PDX Diaper Bank, or 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.360 find the link in the show notes. Thank you all. 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:57.760 Uh We're back, we are. This is Behind the Bastards 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:04.160 a podcast posted by you Evans Coma, Robert and our 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:09.480 guests Todays Durante Comma Caitlin, it's me. I'm back hot 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:16.920 Dog show. Enough. Um so, how how are we doing? Caitlin? 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:24.240 I am doing all right, learning a lot about Max. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:29.080 No not I know it's hard not to write, it's 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.080 difficult not to He's just in my brain more than 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:37.360 John Landis. But learning a lot about John Landis. And uh, also, 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:42.120 I uh went to John Landis's IMDb because earlier I 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.399 was like, I couldn't name a single John Landis movie, 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:49.840 has he even made anything? And then turns out so 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.760 many movies that I have seen. He's an incredibly influential director. 0:01:54.800 --> 0:02:01.600 Actually turns out he's done some stuff good for him. Yeah, 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.680 like Isis You gotta give him credit for a couple 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:11.480 of things, for being active in the pursuit of their goals. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.320 And also, John Landis famously conquered a sizeable chunk of 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:22.400 northern Syria. Don't talk about that as much, Robert task 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:26.760 at hand that I'm always working on the task at hand, 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.040 which in this case is talking about John landis Is 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.760 Twilight Zone movies. So the climax of landis Is segment 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.680 of the Twilight Zone movie was notably the only really 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.320 big action set piece of the movie. Right, there's not 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.560 any other like war scenes or really like even all 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.560 that action e scenes. Right, Like there's some cool ship 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.560 especially in Joe Dante's bit, but like this is the 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.120 this is the only thing with like big explosions and 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.120 shut and stuff. So one Slate article I found alleges 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.640 that it was quote an excuse for director John Landis 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:04.320 to capture immense explosions on film. Um. There have been 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.240 allegations that the pyrotechnics that he was ordering people to 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.919 use were illegally large. Um. I can't speak to that, 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.840 but I found nothing that makes me doubt the basic analysis, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.280 which is that John Landis had not gotten to direct 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.720 a war movie yet and he kind of used this 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.480 as an excuse to do a big, gritty war movie. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.400 This is a feature film because it's one of four, 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.919 it's like a thirty minute chunk of the feature film 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:36.760 basically less really, I think probably more like twenty. Um. Yeah, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.440 it's weird that he got so obsessed with like making 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.480 a Vietnam scene that was like brutally accurate in the 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.560 middle of this Twilight Zone movie. Um, it's kind of 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.280 a baffling call. Um. So yeah. The dude that he 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.640 has flying the helicopter in this critical scene is the 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:57.520 incredibly named Dorsey Wingo. Uh. And Dorsey is a Vietnam 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:00.720 veteran who had flown choppers in combat. Right so he's 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.880 you would think, pretty qualified for this very experienced pilot, 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.960 but he was really new to making movies, and during 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:11.240 rehearsals he was deeply rattled by how close the explosions 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.480 were getting to his aircraft. And again, this is a 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.240 guy who's been in combat in a helicopter who was 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:23.120 scared by how close the explosions are to his helicopter. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.919 And again, if you are directing a movie with a 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.560 helicopter getting shot at and your combat veteran pilot is like, hey, 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.240 this seems dangerous, you might be like, perhaps we're making 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.320 a mistake. Because this is a movie and not the 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:41.800 Vietnam War, things may be going a bit far um. 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:46.560 John Landis does not have this moment of realization, absolutely not. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.640 So in normal circumstances, Window probably would have said something 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:54.279 about the fact that he was deeply frightened by how 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.800 the explosions were getting close to his helicopter. But he's 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.479 really new to movies, right. He had been working with 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.839 helicopters after Vietnam for years, but he hadn't been in film. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:05.800 This is kind of like his first chance that like 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.800 becoming a Hollywood stunt pilot. And again, doesn't want to 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.320 upset John Landis and get blacklisted. So Wingo, you know, 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.480 since he can't, he doesn't feel like he can safely 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.880 go to John Landis. He goes with his concerns to 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.680 the unit production manager, a guy named Dan Allingham, and 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.160 he tells Dan that the pyrotechnics are way too close 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.240 to the aircraft. Allingham agrees, and he says, hey, obviously 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.880 like safety first, right, Like we'll we'll change things to 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:34.320 make it safer. I'll go to John and I'll tell 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:39.040 him we need to make some alterations. So Allingham uh 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.600 later tells Wingo and the camera operator Roger Smith, who 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.159 also complained that everything's fine. He spoke to Landis and 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.440 during the next scene, they're just going to be flying 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.479 over the water filming thick in the kids, like they're 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.280 not going to have actors on the ground alongside explosions, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.479 like they'll He's worked it out with Landis. But then 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.719 later that same day, when John Landis walks past Wingo 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.760 and another crew member discussing how terrifying, lee hot and 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.240 close the fireballs had been during the last time they'd 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.279 filmed the scene, Landis smiled and told them you ain't 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:13.520 seen nothing yet. So Landis is well aware of how 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:16.039 dangerous this scene was, but he wants this shot. He 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.240 has a very specific vision for how the SHOT's going 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.800 to go, so he has associate producer George Folsey, who's 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.000 his number two man, basically go to the parents of 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.800 the children on set and warn them. So you know, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.200 they have explosions on this set, And if you have 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.520 explosions on a film set, you have to have like 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.800 a firefighter dude, right who's like your safety guy. And 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.880 in this case, the guy who's the firefighter dude has 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.800 also worked in like child protective services adjacent stuff in 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.120 the past, so Landis knows, oh shit, if this guy 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.760 finds out that we have a six and a seven 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:52.920 year old illegally working at night with explosions, he's going 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:58.120 to stop it right like, like as he rightly should. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.039 So he has George Folsy go to the parents of 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:06.240 these kids and tell them, quote, if the fireman approach you, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.680 please tell them that you are not working for us, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.440 Say you are my friend, you are here to help me. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:16.600 Don't tell them anything about the money or the children working. Now, 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:19.840 I'm not going to spend a lot of time focusing 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.720 on things the parents did wrong because spoilers, this ends 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.800 in tragedy. But I will say, as a parent, if 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.280 that conversation has had with you on the set of 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.960 a film, time to time to get out, time to 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:35.800 get time to get rolling right along, that you know 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.840 it sounds like impending doom is right around the corner. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:46.120 I will say. Only one of the parents has is 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:52.480 a fluent English speaker, so the other parent um doesn't 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.360 understand what Folsy is saying. So Folsey gets an Asian 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.960 friend who is on the cast to repeat it to 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:07.440 her in Vietnames, But the parent is Chinese, so so 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.880 Folsi's Vietnamese friend just winds up repeating the message slowly 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.440 in English. So at least one of the parents probably 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:18.880 doesn't fully understand like what Folsy is doing here, right um, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.600 and how fucked up things are now, as you might 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.400 have begun to expect. By this point, neither Landis or 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.040 Folsy had done a very good job of letting either 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.440 set of parents know how dangerous the scene was going 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.960 to be. Right They were not adequately informed of the risks. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.920 I mean, honestly, the pilot was not adequately like finds 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.120 out how dangerous this is when they're doing the test 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.400 passes in terms of exploding next to him, right, Um, 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.480 I'm gonna quote from the book outrageous Conduct again. In 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:51.240 these conversations, Folsey would summarize the final scene, mentioning that 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.760 there would be explosives, but xsuring the parents that the 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.360 explosives would be nowhere near the children. Folsey was clearly 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.960 nervous about the illegal hiring. He had always been an honest, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.640 decent person, and he did not feel comfortable breaking the law. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.280 Another secretary in the office, Cynthia and I, remembers Folsey 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.680 coming out of one meeting with Landis and production manager 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.760 Dan Allingham. They had been discussing the hiring of the children, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.720 and as he left the office, Folsey joked nervously, will 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.640 probably all be thrown in jail for this. Schuman claims 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.760 that she asked Folsey at one point what the penalty 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.720 was for working children without permits. As she recalled the 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.480 conversation later, Folsy applied to her a slap on the 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.840 wrist and a little fine. Unless they find out about 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.520 the explosives, then they'll throw my butt in jail. So 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:34.880 Landis and Folsy and Allingham are all very aware that 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.240 they are like committing a serious crime here right now 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.640 on the night of July two. Vic Morrow, who's again 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:45.440 playing like the male lead in this right, he's supposed 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.920 to be rescuing these kids from the this This helicopter, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.480 Um and both children, Renee and Micah were placed in 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.160 position at Indian Dunes Park for like a test run 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.800 of the scene. Uh Indian Dunes is where at this 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.320 point a ton of Vietnam More movies had been filmed. 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.800 Here's how a Rolling Stone article at the time describe 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:06.640 the geography of this area. The park is actually a 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.840 private property enclosed by steep chaparral covered cliffs. At the 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:11.640 base of one of those cliffs, on the south shore 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.440 of the Santa Clara River, a shallow, slow moving stream 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.880 that irrigates orange and avocado grows. A few miles to 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.400 the west, a Vietnamese village had been assembled out of 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.959 bamboo poles, palm thatch and cardboard. Right, so that's kind 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.040 of the scene. They're gonna blow this village up. Right 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.559 as the kids and in Vic Morrow are like standing 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.320 in like this this stream with the helicopter strafening them, 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:35.439 the whole village is supposed to explode, right so both 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.720 kids are nervous because explosions are scary too small children 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:45.600 as our helicopters, and to adults, yeah anybody. Vic Morrow, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:47.680 being a nice guy, makes a bunch of funny faces 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.720 to try and relax them, and he's so successful at 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.880 this that the kids start laughing hard enough that they 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.800 can't stop when Landis wants to start filming, so he 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:56.920 has to halt the scene and yell at the kids 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.960 to stop laughing. The shooting goes well this night because 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.520 again there's not explosions, um and then the parents are 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.560 given five dollars each and envelopes under the table and 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.920 told to bring their kids back the next night. July 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.480 nineteen two is the night that they are set to 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.400 film the final scene of Vic Morrow rescuing both kids 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.560 by carrying them across the river while a US helicopter attacks. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.559 He was supposed to say, I'll keep you safe, kids, 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.480 I swear to God, as the village explodes behind them. 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.079 As the parents of both children sit watching the final 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:36.640 scene unfold, Renee's mother asks is it dangerous and Folsey 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:41.040 says no, not dangerous, just a loud noise. At two 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:47.000 twenty am, John Landis calls action. He yells fire, fire, fire, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.800 as two machine gunners pump blank rounds into the river. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.480 James Camomile, the pyrotechnician, begins setting off a series of explosions. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.520 It is immediately obvious that these are even larger and 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.520 closer to the helicopter than the ones that had previously 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.280 frightened the pilot. And as the pilot is zooming in 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.080 over these explosions with the kids underneath them, Landis starts 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.920 yelling at him, screaming over the mic, lower, get lower. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.200 Mikeah Lee's father, Daniel, who was a Vietnam War veteran, 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.480 says that the blasts reminded him of real rocket detonations. Quote. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.720 I was so horrified. I was screaming the second blast, 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.480 I fell down on the ground. I cried God. I 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:28.640 was so fearful, and I knew danger. It was not 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:35.000 something made up, but real danger. So Landis just keeps 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.120 telling the helicopter to get closer. Two of the explosions 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.920 detonate very like basically right on the chopper, close enough 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.199 that they have an effect, not unlike anti aircraft fire. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.200 The National Transportation Safety Board, in their analysis, would later 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.320 conclude quote the probable cause of The accident was the 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:56.480 detonation of debris laden high temperature special effects explosions too 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.960 near a low flying helicopter, leading to foreign object damn 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.200 to one rotor blade and de lamination due to heat 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.480 to the other rotor blade, the separation of the helicopter's 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.040 tail rotor assembly, and the uncontrolled descent of the helicopter. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.880 The proximity of the helicopter to the special effects explosions 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.280 was due to the failure to establish direct communications and 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.160 coordination between the pilot who was in command of the 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.280 helicopter operation, and the film director who was in charge 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:28.240 of the filming operation. So the helicopter goes down right, 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.360 the explosions damage it, and it crashes. Now, Landis had 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.480 wanted the explosions to be close to the helicopter, and 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.280 he had wanted that helicopter hovering right over the heads 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.720 of Vic and the children for the same reason. He 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.160 wanted the scene to look intense and frightening. His vision 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.440 for the movie now led to a calamity. While roughly 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.960 a hundred people watched, the helicopter plunged into the river, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.479 The right skid crushed six year old Renee, killing her instantly. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.960 The craft then toppled over on its side, cutting Vic 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:04.360 Morrow and the seven year old Mica in half. There's 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.440 footage on this, you can find it on YouTube. It's 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.800 not gory, but you see the chopper because the water 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.199 kind of covers it. You see the chopper hit them. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:20.040 It's pretty fucking terrifying. Like je, if you want to 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.560 have knowledge of what that looks like, you can see it. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:30.440 I don't. Yeah, Um, but I mean okay, So when 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.280 I said horses maybe died or maybe people, it was 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.080 it was the people and it was um, two of 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:42.000 which were young young children. Yeah, two of which together 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:47.480 did not add up to fourteen years of age. Oh horrible. Yeah, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:53.200 this is it's pretty bad, horrible yeah. Um. And also 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.240 all there's six people in the helicopter, right, because there's 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.320 folks filming too. They're all hurt, right, none of them die, thankfully, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.200 but they're all injured. Um, because helicopter crashes aren't great 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:09.320 for your health. So this is about the worst thing 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.440 you could watch happen as a parent. Yeah, It's not 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.960 not a lot that I could imagine being higher on 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.760 that list. Um. So there's obviously in the immediate aftermath 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.440 of the crash, their silence, right as everyone kind of 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.200 like grapples with what has happened, and then Renee's mother 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:32.160 begins to scream. John Landis, who, being the guy that 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.680 John Landis is, still feels a need to act as 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.360 if he's in control of the situation, says, that's a rap. 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.800 Are you kidding me? It's it's now. It's one of 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.880 those things. He goes on to say, like, leave your 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.480 equipment where it is. Everyone go home, please, everyone go home? 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.480 Like right, obviously someone needs to announce that, like filming 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.080 is over. I guess I don't know, someone needs doing 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.080 out something for what. I don't think the right thing 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:03.240 to say is that's a rap. I just don't. I 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.360 really don't think that's the right thing to say after 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.680 you have gotten two children and a stunt man killed killed. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:17.280 Not the right thing to say at all. Oh my god, 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:24.560 John Landis m M. But on the other hand, we 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.360 got animal House out of his career, so who can 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.800 say it was worth it? And then okay, so then 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:42.120 I he goes on to direct, um, what did is sorry, 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.040 I have a bunch of a bunch of will talk 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.080 about some of the ship. He goes on to direct 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:50.800 just a little bit. But you know what we're going 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.520 to talk about right now, Caitlin, Is is it products 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.800 and services? Yeah? And the products and services in this podcast, Caitlin, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.040 not once have they been involved in a fatal helicopter accident. 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:09.879 I'm so glad. That's that's the absolute guarantee we make, um, 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:15.400 unless corporation winds up, uh ever, supporting us, in which 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.919 case they've been responsible for a lot of deadly helicopter accidents. Um. 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.840 But that's the problem will cross when we finally get 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.440 that big sponsorship. But I've always thought we're more of 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:32.680 a podcast, right Sophie. I find you to be so annoying. Well, 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.399 you know what else is annoying? Not having the great taste? 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:48.040 M m? Are you really doing an adverb? That's good 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.840 right now? Like they don't haven't done anything bad, because 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.919 that's why I said the great taste of unlike the 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:03.919 terrible helicopter crashy taste of products. So they're Sophie Robert 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:15.200 stilling for an ad break. It sure is. We're back, Caitlin. 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.120 How are we doing? I'm doing good? Um? Okay, So 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:24.840 after this he directs the Thriller music video. She sure 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.040 does direct the thriller music video. Um, what are the 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.879 things I'm familiar with? Three Amigos he directs, which is 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.600 a movie. Another unpopular opinion that I have is that 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.440 that movie sucks. I hate hate. There's like twenty good 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.879 minutes in that whole movie, and there's a lot of 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:49.399 ship in between. Do not like it? Um Coming to America? UM, 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:55.359 trade right before or at least it's released before Twilight 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.080 Zone movie one of the fucking um. One of the 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.440 write ups about this disaster, I found, like, really ships 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.679 on Coming to America? I think just because it's like 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.560 the first big hit Land has had after the accident, which, 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.240 like I don't get like, I think it's my recollection 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.280 was Coming to America is perfectly fine movie? One of 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.280 the better Eddie Murphy movies. UM. I tend to agree. Yeah, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:24.720 except for Shrek and of course three, and of course 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:29.760 Shrek and of course Shrek four. Yeah. How many Shreks 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.159 did we wind up getting? There are four and a fifth? 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:38.840 One is I think past development. I think it's soon. Well, 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:40.840 this this is the best chance we've had in years 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:46.520 of getting another Austin Powers movie. Wait, Shrek five, hang on, 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.680 this is we just have to pause because this is important. 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:59.120 Shrek five. Uh oh. According to fandom, Shruck five might 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:06.200 be released on September two. Uh it sounds like really 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:11.000 good information that is definitely probably correct. Anyway, we can 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:17.720 move away from Shrek. I guess I mean no, um 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.639 this the I actually plan to just talk about the 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.200 Shrek movie, which has a pretty titanic body count. Um, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.119 although that's primarily because in order to get some of 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.600 the shots they needed, they had to back a brutal 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:36.119 civil war in Ecuador. But you know the Shrek franchise, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:39.720 it's the only way you could get that realistically rendered 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:45.960 of a donkey. Um. So you know, John Landis gets 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:51.840 two children and Vick Morrow horribly killed, um, really terrible 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:57.960 debts um. And you know this is gonna cause problems, right. Um. 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:02.800 Hollywood is pretty good at at smoothing some things under 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:05.240 the under the table, right, but this is this is 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.560 a problem, right, This is a big story. Yeah, children 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.680 cut in half by helicopters are gonna There's gonna be 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.560 some legal stuff that's gonna come out. Yeah a little bit. 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.199 So the wheels of justice, or what passes for the 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.960 wheels of justice start to churn up after this. The 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.960 first court cases that kind of get resolved at least 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.040 our lawsuits from the families of the children who get killed. 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.639 The Chin family file on August three, and name both 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.200 John Landis and Steven Spielberg. Cause again, Steve Spielberg is 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.480 producing this alongside John Landis, right, he is, he is 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:41.880 involved in this whole thing. We will talk some more 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.639 about the degree to which maybe he's culpable here, because 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.840 it's very murky. Right, he immediately leaves the country. Um, 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.880 we'll talk about that more in a second. Um as 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.280 does um. Oh god, what's her name? That Kathleen lady 0:21:55.320 --> 0:22:01.479 who wound up running Marvel what sort? I don't know. 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:04.520 Let's sack. Let's sack. I don't care about that. Behind 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:08.160 the scenes people in movies. Kathleen Kennedy who was also 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:13.520 produce she also fucking books it, right, Like, both Spielberg 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.520 and Kathleen Kennedy are like, because you know, we should 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.000 probably not be around for this. I don't want to 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:26.360 get involved in. Um. So Yeah. The first court cases 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.840 that follow this our lawsuits from the families of the 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:32.040 Slane children. The Chin family files on August three, and 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:35.320 they name yeah, Lands and Spielberg, as well as uh 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:39.040 Folsy and Wingo. Um Folsey is the assist a producer 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.480 and Windows the pilot in their request for damages. Michael 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.600 Lees family file suit a year later. These all do 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.960 get settled out of court. Um. Now, one for an 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.800 example of kind of the crapulence of big studios, when 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.439 Warner Brothers is named in the Chin lawsuit, because right 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.920 there they have some culpability to their law firm argues 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.640 that the studio not be liable because quote, the risk, 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.720 if any risk there was, was knowingly assumed by the 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:13.760 decedent Renee shiny Chin, who was again six choking me 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.200 right now? Yeah, first off, the risk if any there was. 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.359 You can't have if any there wasn't there when three 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:23.800 people have been cut to pieces by helicopter rotors. Okay, 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:27.920 Like you can't say was there really a risk there 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:33.879 was a risk that everything about that sentence is wrong. Yeah, 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:38.199 it's unbelievably like it's a strong case that entertainment lawyers 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:45.359 should be boiled. Um. Yeah. So these civil lawsuits are 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.800 all eventually settled. We don't really know like what kind 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.040 of money the families get. I hope it's a lot. 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:56.119 Like you know, but we don't really know. But of 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.920 course that doesn't end kind of the legal stuff around this, 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.159 because three human beings have died gruesome deaths. Two of 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.080 them are children who have been hired illegally, So the 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:08.880 state of California needs to determine if there was any 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:13.320 criminal liability for the accident. District Attorney John Van de 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:17.199 Camp assigned prosecutor Gary Kesselman to the case, and an 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:20.760 l A p D. Sheriff's detective assisted the investigation. Found 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.560 the things that I have noted already. Um, they find 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.240 like Folsey saying, oh, I'll go to jail for this. 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:28.560 They find that, you know, the children have been illegally hired, 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:31.200 that this has been hidden from the fire safety officer. 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:34.359 So they they're like, well, there's enough here to convene 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:38.119 a grand jerry for fucking share um, which you know, 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:40.040 one of the rare times I'll be like, yeah, that 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:44.720 l A. Sheriff's deputy was more or less right. Um. 0:24:44.800 --> 0:24:47.600 So they convene a grand jury. Um. And when you 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:50.600 convene a grand jury, that means that there's enough evidence 0:24:50.640 --> 0:24:54.919 that there's something wrong that you're gonna bring the people 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.080 involved in front of a jury. And have them be questioned, right, 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:00.640 and then the jury is going to decide we indict, 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.919 which means like do we actually charge people with a crime? Right? Um? 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.800 So they Folsy winds up in front of the grand jury. 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:10.960 Um who he says that in front of the grand jury. 0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:14.119 Folsey says, in retrospect, it would have been better to 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:18.720 shoot the helicopter and the actors at separate times, which, no, ship, 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:22.800 I'm glad you can see that, buddy. Yes, in retrospect, 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:24.479 it would have been better to not do the thing 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:29.200