Speaker 1: Welcome back to Good Mom's Bad Choices. I'm Erica and
Speaker 1: I'm Mila. Happy Wednesday, you guys, y'all, are you get hydrated?
Speaker 2: Hydrated, humping and happy today?
Speaker 1: I am excited because we have two time best selling author,
Speaker 1: entrepreneur mom of two, Christine Michelle Carter on the podcast.
Speaker 3: So welcome, Hey, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3: And I just noticed we both have a wrist tattoo. Okay,
Speaker 3: I love it. Oh okay, oh fabulous gus.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not I have one of those.
Speaker 1: Yeah I do, but you said you sent us your
Speaker 1: book a while ago.
Speaker 2: We featured it on our Instagram.
Speaker 1: It's part of our book club, and so we are
Speaker 1: super excited to have you on.
Speaker 4: And he also said us some edibles, but that was
Speaker 4: that was very thoughtful.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that very much.
Speaker 3: But hemp gummies, I guess.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I was like, she knows us.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: I wish they were they were filled with cannabis, but
Speaker 3: for everybody listening, they were just hemp gummies, don't I
Speaker 3: gave them out of my book party and people were like,
Speaker 3: do you have the real thing?
Speaker 4: I was like, I can't give you that right, and
Speaker 4: I and my book party trying to get right exactly
Speaker 4: unlike us over here, like everybody, you should take drugs,
Speaker 4: And I'm just.
Speaker 3: I'm a big advocate for that when it comes to mothers.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I couldn't give it away at my party
Speaker 3: Allegedly I'm allegedly an advocate because I wink.
Speaker 1: So you you have two books, one is mom as
Speaker 1: Fuck and the other one is to Mommy Go to Work.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us just a little bit about your
Speaker 1: journey into you know, writing Mom as Fuck. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know you're you are a big advocating You speak
Speaker 1: a lot about, you know, women feeling unsupported in the
Speaker 1: workplace and in motherhood in general.
Speaker 2: Being an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1: Yourself, I'm sure you know obviously this is a very
Speaker 1: personal experience. So tell us a little bit about you
Speaker 1: so our listeners get to know who you are and
Speaker 1: how you started on your journey and advocating for a
Speaker 1: single moments.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so. Back in two thousand and seven, I started
Speaker 3: a retail marketing firm and the idea was to help
Speaker 3: small businessesses reach millennial consumers. Specifically, at the time, they
Speaker 3: were called Generation Why, and I was helping them reach
Speaker 3: them when they were at a younger life stage. So
Speaker 3: fast forward to today, as millennial consumers go through different
Speaker 3: life stages, I've just become an ed for at this
Speaker 3: point working moms. I was always an advocate for us
Speaker 3: in the workplace, but once I became a mom, it
Speaker 3: was like, Nope, done, I'm not going to advocate for
Speaker 3: anything else but us as moms in every facet of that.
Speaker 3: What it means to be a black mom, what it
Speaker 3: means to be a single mom, what it means to
Speaker 3: be a mom who has a side hustle, everything that
Speaker 3: has to do with being a millennial mom. And I
Speaker 3: a part of me having that brand that business was
Speaker 3: that I would contribute to different publications about millennial consumers.
Speaker 3: So I still do that obviously to this day. I
Speaker 3: write for Parents in Time and Forbes, and written for
Speaker 3: a huff Posts and I'm the associate editor for Modern Mom.
Speaker 3: And then I decided that it was time for me
Speaker 3: to kind of put my money where my mouth is.
Speaker 3: So five years ago I started a free professional development
Speaker 3: event for moms called mom preneur Me. So basically, we
Speaker 3: go across the country, We did pre COVID and we
Speaker 3: helped moms learn professional development skills to spend time with
Speaker 3: their kids too, so they would do yoga together, they
Speaker 3: would do bowling, they would do all kinds of fun
Speaker 3: things pay for by brands completely free. They would get
Speaker 3: gifts at the end. And when I was going around
Speaker 3: the country, I was just meeting so many different women
Speaker 3: who had the same story, who were very afraid to
Speaker 3: climb the corporate ladder because they felt guilty for doing
Speaker 3: so for their kid, or they were battling with a
Speaker 3: husband and didn't want the world to know it. And
Speaker 3: just like, all these different stories made me realize how
Speaker 3: much were siloed as mothers, even though social media is
Speaker 3: supposed to connect us. And I just really decided that
Speaker 3: I had to make my mission making women feel confident
Speaker 3: and understood and showing them that they weren't alone. And
Speaker 3: I did that through the two books. So through mom
Speaker 3: AF and through Kim Mommy Go to Work. Kim Mommy
Speaker 3: Go to Work was so that women understood that the
Speaker 3: single mothers exist everywhere and children will always try to
Speaker 3: stop you from going to work. It doesn't mean they
Speaker 3: hate your job, they just want to be with their mom.
Speaker 3: And mom AF was kind of like a loose story
Speaker 3: of what I was going through during my separation and
Speaker 3: ultimately my divorce. So it dealt with everything with regards
Speaker 3: to being a woman in corporate America and being the
Speaker 3: only black woman sometimes and having a husband who was
Speaker 3: battling an addiction, and raising these children in today's society
Speaker 3: and edibles like it dealt with everything. So that's me.
Speaker 1: I know a lot in your book you talk about
Speaker 1: the idea of you know, owning your shite and like
Speaker 1: the good and the bad and the ugly, and obviously
Speaker 1: like our podcast is really based in all of those things.
Speaker 2: You know, we talk about all of.
Speaker 1: Our bad choices that we've made. And I say that
Speaker 1: with air quotes because a lot of the bad choices
Speaker 1: are not bad, you know, that's what society has deemed
Speaker 1: as bad. Like even like like you said, like going
Speaker 1: to work, leaving your child to go to work, or
Speaker 1: you know, smoking weed or whatever it may be, having
Speaker 1: sex and talking about it.
Speaker 2: You know, how like how do you how do you
Speaker 2: find your balance?
Speaker 1: I mean you just told me that you're you contribute
Speaker 1: to so many different things, have so many things going on,
Speaker 1: Like how the fuck do you do it?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 2: I need tips? Because girl, I mean I do. I
Speaker 2: basically have two jobs.
Speaker 1: I have, you know, my podcast, which every week is
Speaker 1: a full on production, and then you know, I work
Speaker 1: in beauty and so you know, and and that business
Speaker 1: is you know, since COVID hit has affected been affected
Speaker 1: greatly and we've had to pivot in our business as well.
Speaker 1: How like, with all the things you have going on,
Speaker 1: how do you find the time? How do you find
Speaker 1: time to hang out with your kids? Also write, feel inspired.
Speaker 5: And then encourage other moms to get with it too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so definitely learning time management. I also am
Speaker 3: not dating when I was married for a really long time.
Speaker 3: We met in college and then the year we separated,
Speaker 3: I wrote two books. I got my business that consults
Speaker 3: for brands, state and federally certified. I was raising our children,
Speaker 3: we were traveling, I was thriving, and people said the
Speaker 3: same thing, how do you do it? How do you
Speaker 3: find the balance? All that kind of stuff. That's when
Speaker 3: mompreneur and me really became national, and we were going
Speaker 3: all different cities and I was like, I don't have
Speaker 3: to focus on a guy anymore. I don't have to
Speaker 3: spend my time pacifying somebody. I got rid of one
Speaker 3: of my children. I had three children, like, and he
Speaker 3: had an addiction problem on top of that. Like, I
Speaker 3: don't have to deal with all that shit anymore. So
Speaker 3: I have all the time under the sun to thrive,
Speaker 3: and I didn't. I put so much time after I
Speaker 3: got out of college focusing on his career. No one
Speaker 3: really knew what it was like for me to thrive
Speaker 3: as an adult and as a professional. So now it
Speaker 3: is so shocking to people. But it's kind of like,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I I carried his ass, Like why are
Speaker 3: you surprised? But that's honestly, that's the biggest thing for me,
Speaker 3: is like that's how I find the time is because
Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of things prior, but but
Speaker 3: people didn't see it. But I was also taking care
Speaker 3: of him, and now it was just like it's dead
Speaker 3: weight gone, which is pretty freaking awesome. I gotta say,
Speaker 3: I hate to be an advocate for divorce, but every
Speaker 3: time a woman comes I do. But every time a
Speaker 3: woman comes to me and she has this sad, sob
Speaker 3: story about her husband and how he won't do this
Speaker 3: and won't do that, I'm not the whole prey on it.
Speaker 3: Go to therapy. I'm like, well, just leave his ass like.
Speaker 1: Prayer, right right, skip go and collect you in a dollar.
Speaker 3: Keep it moving, you know, Like it's because you can't
Speaker 3: change men, you know, you just you absolutely can. They
Speaker 3: can be so freaking draining, and I find that with
Speaker 3: dating too, I'm like, well, fuck this, I'm not doing this,
Speaker 3: Like I'd rather just focus on myself and my children.
Speaker 4: Happy that you're like able to be that transparent and
Speaker 4: talk honestly about it.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, obviously Eric and I haven't.
Speaker 4: Been divorced, but we've both had breakups early on more
Speaker 4: or like you know, within our relationships or in our
Speaker 4: child's lives.
Speaker 2: But I think you're right.
Speaker 4: For women, we do naturally nurture and dedicate so much
Speaker 4: to pacifying men, to appeasing them. I mean it's a
Speaker 4: patriarchy to to you know, pretending like what, our identity
Speaker 4: doesn't exist in order to maintain the household and the
Speaker 4: children and a lot of times the second or third baby,
Speaker 4: which is the man.
Speaker 2: And I think there's also.
Speaker 5: Like this curse because we just discussed this too, and this,
Speaker 5: like I call.
Speaker 4: It a curse of like this curse of having a
Speaker 4: baby with someone and then feeling like if this doesn't
Speaker 4: work out, my whole world is fucked.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: I had this plan as a little girl that I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have a husband and a baby or two babies,
Speaker 4: a white picket fence, and we're gonna be that's how
Speaker 4: it's gonna work.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna have a support system.
Speaker 4: And I think we were drilled that so hard that
Speaker 4: women forget that, Hey, if this partner isn't helping you succeed,
Speaker 4: isn't supporting you, isn't it If it's not a mutual exchange,
Speaker 4: then he's got to go. That's he's not adding to
Speaker 4: you know, you moving forward, and it has to go
Speaker 4: both ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So when I ended up, and you guys have
Speaker 3: read the book, when I ended up deciding to separate
Speaker 3: from my husband, I had never said these words out
Speaker 3: loud until I said it to him and he completely
Speaker 3: got it. I was like, you're holding me back, and
Speaker 3: you're you're draining me, you know, and you're in my way.
Speaker 3: Because I had that conversation with him. After I was
Speaker 3: supposed to speak, I came up to New York and
Speaker 3: I my daughter and I actually had a mother daughter
Speaker 3: speaking a gig. She was like five at the time.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, we had a mother daughter speaking
Speaker 3: gig and he ended up having a seizure in the
Speaker 3: hotel from alcohol withdrawal, and I had to speak very
Speaker 3: quickly and leave the conference. And I felt like I
Speaker 3: had forever tarnished my brand name because it was starting
Speaker 3: to grow and I was dealing with somebody who was
Speaker 3: putting me through this. So that's when I told him.
Speaker 3: When we came back, I was like, you're holding me back,
Speaker 3: so you either need to figure yourself out or I'm gone.
Speaker 3: And he didn't figure himself out, so I left. But
Speaker 3: you guys have read the book, you know, like it
Speaker 3: wasn't as easy to just separate, Like there were moments
Speaker 3: where I physically felt sick because of what you're saying.
Speaker 3: Like I had this family, and I was supposed to
Speaker 3: be this wife, and I was supposed to take care
Speaker 3: of him. But people really don't tell you how hard
Speaker 3: it is to truly take care of somebody, especially when
Speaker 3: they're depressed and they don't want to take care of themselves.
Speaker 3: There's only so much that you can do. And then
Speaker 3: I grew up in a household that was divorced, right,
Speaker 3: my mother's been divorced twice, And I guess there's two
Speaker 3: sides to that coin because she was divorced twice, and
Speaker 3: I see how much she's still a advocate for love
Speaker 3: and she's a huge romantic and always as way for
Speaker 3: a night in shining arm or or save her. But
Speaker 3: at the same time, she's wildly successful, and I feel
Speaker 3: like it took her to become wildly successful in her
Speaker 3: fifties to finally settle down and get married for a
Speaker 3: third time. Hopefully this one not gonna with my stepfather next.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's just it's it's all a craps.
Speaker 3: It's just all a craps.
Speaker 4: I feel it's so funny how I really believe in
Speaker 4: timing and just the universe, and this conversation couldn't be
Speaker 4: like more on time. I feel like, I don't know,
Speaker 4: sometimes we get messages even if you're just listening in
Speaker 4: the car or wherever you're at, whatever time you pick
Speaker 4: up and push this podcast, like there's always gonna be
Speaker 4: something that you're supposed to hear at the very right.
Speaker 3: That's God, that's saying that's good, that's God. Yeah it happened.
Speaker 4: And I feel like when you're dealing with a partner
Speaker 4: who's dealing with depression or addiction.
Speaker 2: I dealt with that, and I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't want to talk about that a lot because
Speaker 4: I felt like I didn't want to shade this person.
Speaker 5: Who's my child's father.
Speaker 4: But I think it's really hard for women to say
Speaker 4: to not feel guilty, Like especially black women. At what
Speaker 4: point do we say, Okay, I've tried, I've.
Speaker 2: And I'm walking away.
Speaker 5: Now it's up to you, Like you can't save someone.
Speaker 2: I literally like, as much as.
Speaker 4: I know my daughter's father is not my person same
Speaker 4: I knew him since we were thirteen. We went you know,
Speaker 4: junior high, high school, you know, college, go for years,
Speaker 4: and a part of me even still to this day
Speaker 4: feefe and it hurts, and there's a burden of like, damn,
Speaker 4: like did I not try hard enough? Like could I
Speaker 4: have pulled this person out of this place? Did I
Speaker 4: not stick around long enough? And even in my like
Speaker 4: glimpses of like like even still like wanting that in
Speaker 4: some capacity or wanting that whatever I thought I was
Speaker 4: supposed to have. You know, I even with him, I
Speaker 4: see that he couldn't even acknowledge it enough to be like,
Speaker 4: you're right, it's me, you know, even till this day,
Speaker 4: it's like you, what did you do?
Speaker 2: You did this? And I'm like, I can't. You know,
Speaker 2: you have to really.
Speaker 4: As women cut ties when it doesn't like I think
Speaker 4: we're so programmed to not cut ties and not sore
Speaker 4: and not to be focused on ourselves.
Speaker 2: We're always fucking talking about.
Speaker 3: Men all the time.
Speaker 2: All of my friends, Yeah, had problems. Are they finding
Speaker 2: a man? Are they getting a man? Did they leave?
Speaker 1: Like me?
Speaker 3: Me?
Speaker 2: Men?
Speaker 4: And it's like we are so we're such strong women
Speaker 4: and we're so we're such we're dynamic if we can
Speaker 4: just tap into that shit. And I admit I've had
Speaker 4: a problem. I've struggled with that, you know, even till
Speaker 4: this day. And we haven't been together for like three years.
Speaker 4: So I just feel like, thank you for being honest
Speaker 4: and thank you for being transparent about you know, that journey,
Speaker 4: because a lot of women stay and then I hate
Speaker 4: to be like on my deathbed and be like should
Speaker 4: have what it could have?
Speaker 3: And basically that's where I was coming from. And not
Speaker 3: only and let me just say that everything that I
Speaker 3: say in I interview, everything in the book, my ex
Speaker 3: husband proved he was he really wanted me to write
Speaker 3: and tell his story because he wanted to be able
Speaker 3: to help somebody else who was going through it. Now
Speaker 3: fast forward, like I wrote a part of that. I've
Speaker 3: been writing Mama AF for a really long time, like
Speaker 3: even while we were still happily married, and that said,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna put you in it. And then I was like,
Speaker 3: should I put everything? And he was like absolutely. Now
Speaker 3: today he battles his addiction so much he has turned
Speaker 3: into a different person. And that's another thing that could
Speaker 3: very well happen, like the person you're with could turn
Speaker 3: into a completely different person you don't even recognize. So
Speaker 3: if you do choose to stay, you have to deal
Speaker 3: with that. But not only did I try and make
Speaker 3: it work and stay with him, I married him knowing
Speaker 3: that he had the addiction problem. So I really I
Speaker 3: felt like put and again this is like now hindsight
Speaker 3: and I can, you know, give myself a little bit
Speaker 3: of credit from how I was when I left him,
Speaker 3: But I really think I gave it one hundred and
Speaker 3: ten percent. If I married you knowing you.
Speaker 2: Had a right right.
Speaker 3: And still had children with you, So yeah, how do.
Speaker 1: You like when how did your children because you said,
Speaker 1: you have a five year old and you have a
Speaker 1: I'm sorry twelve.
Speaker 3: Nine, nine, nine year old?
Speaker 1: Yeah, how I know, there's a lot of people that
Speaker 1: listen that are either married or going through divorce and
Speaker 1: maybe their partner has suffered with addiction or how how
Speaker 1: did you have your children, you know, been able to transition? Like,
Speaker 1: how are they how? I mean, obviously I'm sure they've
Speaker 1: been affected. Yeah, how do you talk to them about
Speaker 1: about it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I bet they had. You know, there are
Speaker 3: a lot of people who have because the black people,
Speaker 3: we kind of sweep that under the rug, and a
Speaker 3: lot of people do have addiction problems and we don't
Speaker 3: even call it that. But even he didn't want to
Speaker 3: admit that in his family. He comes from a family
Speaker 3: of that and they don't want to admit it. But
Speaker 3: with my daughter, she was about she was I think
Speaker 3: she was five or six at the time, and we
Speaker 3: had the I had a conversation with her that because
Speaker 3: he couldn't even comprehend, like he was just incoherent. I
Speaker 3: had to have the conversation with her that we were moving.
Speaker 3: So what ended up happening was on a Friday, I
Speaker 3: was at my wits end by Saturday, we already had
Speaker 3: an apartment, because that's how fast I move. I don't
Speaker 3: play games. Once. Once I had decided, I had decided.
Speaker 3: So I went to her on that Wednesday that I
Speaker 3: had decided. I said, we're moving, and it's because mommy
Speaker 3: and daddy need to be separate, and it has nothing
Speaker 3: to do with you. And I continuously to this day
Speaker 3: reinforced that, so she realizes that I am my own
Speaker 3: person and I had to come to that decision. For me.
Speaker 3: It's not coming to the decision as mommy. It's coming
Speaker 3: to the decision as Christine and what's best for Christine.
Speaker 3: And that's I think part of the difference. My son
Speaker 3: was so small, he didn't really care. Every now and
Speaker 3: again he'll say, I mean and when I say every
Speaker 3: now and again, I mean really theoradically will he say
Speaker 3: that he wishes his father was around or his father
Speaker 3: was there. But even through this whole coronavirus, they haven't
Speaker 3: seen him at all. So they haven't seen him in
Speaker 3: like what thirteen fourteen weeks and they're still happy children. Now.
Speaker 3: My daughter is a control freak and has anxiety like
Speaker 3: her mother, so she does try to take on the
Speaker 3: parental role when it comes to her dad, because she
Speaker 3: does know. I've told her that he has a problem
Speaker 3: with alcohol, because I want her to know early, so
Speaker 3: she does try to pacify him, and she's trying to
Speaker 3: see him, to spend time with him, just to take
Speaker 3: care of him. But you know, that's something I have
Speaker 3: her in therapy for. And I recognized very early on
Speaker 3: her anxiety triggers and her signs because I could see them.
Speaker 3: I knew them from me. So it's just a matter
Speaker 3: of just continuing to have like conversations with her. With
Speaker 3: my son, it's really not that big a deal at
Speaker 3: the moment. I imagine it will be when he's like
Speaker 3: a teenager. But for her right now, it's just trying
Speaker 3: to pacify her dad, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think too, the fact that your daughter
Speaker 1: is nine and is in therapy, I mean that is
Speaker 1: I commend you for that because I think a lot
Speaker 1: of black women would not do that. First of all,
Speaker 1: in our community, you know, we don't share, we don't
Speaker 1: tell our business people, and we can handle it internally
Speaker 1: and we'll deal with it when we know we probably well,
Speaker 1: I don't. I think me and Jamila, you we talk
Speaker 1: about these issues all the time, so we are more equipped,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, we are not equipped to
Speaker 1: deal with it because we haven't dealt with our own
Speaker 1: traumas from the past. So how are we going to
Speaker 1: assist our children in these things? We need help, We
Speaker 1: need to be able to ask for help. And you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I started therapy. I started doing therapy probably
Speaker 1: in the middle of my at the very end of
Speaker 1: my relationship with my daughter's father. That was the first
Speaker 1: time I really had ever sought out therapy, and it
Speaker 1: helped me a lot. I wished, though, that I had
Speaker 1: been in therapy as a child, because it would have
Speaker 1: helped me. I mean, I couldn't imagine how much it
Speaker 1: could have helped me because I had so many like
Speaker 1: even talking about my father, like the idea of my
Speaker 1: mom even asking me about him, I would just immediately
Speaker 1: cry on cue and she and she just didn't know
Speaker 1: and she didn't know what to do about it, and
Speaker 1: so she would just like kind of like let me
Speaker 1: cry and then like we go get ice cream, and
Speaker 1: then we wouldn't bring it up and.
Speaker 2: Like until it happened again.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, And I'm just so I am grateful
Speaker 1: that therapy is becoming more and more normalized for children,
Speaker 1: even like there's this, there's this, there's an app called
Speaker 1: better Help that me and Jamila have been using. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I don't know if you've heard of it,
Speaker 1: and I've been I've been doing therapy now because my
Speaker 1: therapist actually that I that I was seeing, uh stopped
Speaker 1: taking insurance and she was like, just I couldn't afford it,
Speaker 1: and so better Help. I actually had a session last night,
Speaker 1: and it's great because like I'm able to choose my therapist.
Speaker 1: She's a black woman, and you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: for me that was really important. They also have therapy
Speaker 1: for children as well adolescents. So if you're listening right
Speaker 1: now and you feel like maybe your daughter, your son,
Speaker 1: maybe you, maybe you and your husband need therapy, I
Speaker 1: encourage you guys to check out betterhelp dot com.
Speaker 2: It's virtual therapy. You can do it. I did it
Speaker 2: in my room on FaceTime.
Speaker 1: It was honestly like, even after COVID, I might not
Speaker 1: ever go back to write therapy because there's something so
Speaker 1: intimate about you being able to be in your place
Speaker 1: of comfort and talking.
Speaker 2: To that person and we get off the phone.
Speaker 1: You don't have to walk out of an office, I'll
Speaker 1: look at all teary eyed and shit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like I thought it would be more awkward,
Speaker 4: but it's actually a little less awkward, you know, like
Speaker 4: just telling pulling out to a stranger and telling your
Speaker 4: business because it is you're in the comfort of your
Speaker 4: own home.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, if you guys are interested in better help, check
Speaker 1: out the details of the episode means you.
Speaker 2: Me love talked about it a.
Speaker 1: Few different times, and I really, really really encourage you
Speaker 1: to get the help you need, because therapy shouldn't be
Speaker 1: this weird, scary thing, and especially for children, like especially
Speaker 1: when you're a child. Yeah, I mean, like she's, first
Speaker 1: of all, she's a girl, and girls we are we're
Speaker 1: nurturers by nature, and but at some point, though we
Speaker 1: have to that's already innately in us. We have to
Speaker 1: learn how and when to share that with people, regardless
Speaker 1: of if it's your family member or not. And I
Speaker 1: wish I would have had those tools early on. I
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have wasted so much time in my last relationship. Now,
Speaker 1: my my ex was not an addict per se, but
Speaker 1: he had his own dark demons that he seemed to
Speaker 1: be addicted to even to this day, like the need
Speaker 1: to feel connected to shit that is dangerous just because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and but all of those addictions, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry to cut you, ay, no, yeah, I mean essentially.
Speaker 1: It is kind of an addiction. It might not be
Speaker 1: like an actual like substance substance addiction.
Speaker 3: Right, but it's all driven by depression.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 3: That's why I don't judge him for having the alcohol addiction.
Speaker 3: It's more so for not wanting to treat the depression.
Speaker 3: And I honestly I don't judge him for that either,
Speaker 3: but I recogniz that that's the issue, is that you're depressed,
Speaker 3: you don't want to treat it, and there's nothing that
Speaker 3: I can do to stop your depression. Absolutely. When it
Speaker 3: comes to my daughter, it's funny she's so vocal that
Speaker 3: it's in therapy that it's made her vocal around the house,
Speaker 3: Like she'll be like, I just need some meat time,
Speaker 3: and she'll put on her aromatherapy oils and go in
Speaker 3: her room. And it helps to put names to things
Speaker 3: like when you are sick of being around people, if
Speaker 3: you want to say you want some me time, go ahead.
Speaker 3: By all means that means I can have some me time,
Speaker 3: so you go off and do that and it's funny.
Speaker 3: So we've had the same she's had our pediatrician since birth,
Speaker 3: and our pediatrician is like, she's come to me, asking
Speaker 3: me questions and telling me about what her friends are doing.
Speaker 3: And she's like, can you believe that? But that's the
Speaker 3: kind of relationship and communication that I've built, And therapy
Speaker 3: is also helping.
Speaker 2: Damn, I didn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't realize how much like therapy just really stimulates
Speaker 4: the need, like the exercise of talking about out your feelings, right,
Speaker 4: I didn't even realize, like that's the thing, Like even
Speaker 4: you saying that story about your mama brings something up
Speaker 4: and you would just immediately cry. I remember, like my
Speaker 4: parents bringing up certain things and I just was like,
Speaker 4: don't say one more thing to me, I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 4: And then not wanting to be vulnerable in front of
Speaker 4: even my parents, not even wanting to cry, not even
Speaker 4: want to be like I feel this way, not even
Speaker 4: to myself, like I would may go on my room
Speaker 4: and just cry, but then not even being able to identify,
Speaker 4: you know, really just dig deep into those feelings and
Speaker 4: then express them and to the point where I'm thirty two,
Speaker 4: and I'm literally crying all the fucking time. I am.
Speaker 2: I'm crying all the time. I can cry on a
Speaker 2: drop of a hat.
Speaker 3: A world has gotten to where to go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I'm just like, you're not work this out, girl,
Speaker 4: You're not You're not twelve year old girl anymore. You know,
Speaker 4: Like I get even with certain friends, my closest friends, certain.
Speaker 2: Conversations even my not closest.
Speaker 5: Friends come up, and I'm like, I'm gonna cry. I
Speaker 5: don't want to cry, and I'm getting uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: I'm sweating, you know what I mean, Because it's just
Speaker 4: like my own insecurities, my own fears, my own shit.
Speaker 4: But you're making like this conversation is just so true
Speaker 4: because it's like and that's true, Like with the better
Speaker 4: help with your kids getting therapy, there doesn't have to
Speaker 4: be some traumatic situation to happen. It doesn't have to
Speaker 4: be divorced on the rise, it doesn't have to be
Speaker 4: some you know, first.
Speaker 3: Of all, growing up as a traumatic situation.
Speaker 1: Okay, like there's going to be just puberty and right, like,
Speaker 1: what's happening to my body?
Speaker 2: Who am I? Why?
Speaker 3: Am I? Why? Mel all of a sudden, Right, why
Speaker 3: do my friends act this way? Why are they doing things?
Speaker 3: Should I be doing the things that they're doing. That's
Speaker 3: what I'm dealing with, right, And.
Speaker 4: Then this this layer of social media and this other
Speaker 4: shit that we even experience growing up, this is a
Speaker 4: whole different season.
Speaker 2: And so like hell yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, like.
Speaker 5: I'm I I need to do more therapy.
Speaker 4: I need to talk about my feelings more because I'm
Speaker 4: trying to heal things that I didn't even realize I
Speaker 4: need to be healed until.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at thirty two. And that's crazy.
Speaker 3: But can I tell you, I love that you say
Speaker 3: that you recognize your triggers, because it wasn't until somebody
Speaker 3: told me to watch Sleepless in Seattle that I realized
Speaker 3: one of I've never seen the movie before.
Speaker 2: Ryan, Yeah, yeah, let me write that down.
Speaker 3: Gonna get Sleepless in Seattle. That's a good movie. But
Speaker 3: I had never realized that one of my triggers is
Speaker 3: chick flicks. Like after I watch a chick flick, I ball,
Speaker 3: not while the movie is on, but afterwards, I ball uncontrollably.
Speaker 3: Because I don't want to admit that love and romance
Speaker 3: matters to me. I won't even admit that to myself,
Speaker 3: and then sometimes after I watch it, I'm like, just
Speaker 3: go ahead and cry, and I'll get the cry out
Speaker 3: and I'll realize how much I miss being in love
Speaker 3: and having romance. And I think it does stem from
Speaker 3: the fact that my mother is so into like the
Speaker 3: her writing to me right, needing a man like that
Speaker 3: completes and rounds out her life, and I so don't
Speaker 3: want to be like that that I push those feelings
Speaker 3: down and then you put a chick flick on one
Speaker 3: and then I'm a mess.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that is me? Are you mean? Do
Speaker 2: I he? Honest to God? Like I don't care these nagas.
Speaker 2: I don't mean.
Speaker 4: Like a year ago, I tried on my girlfriend's engagement
Speaker 4: ring just because that's what girls do, and literally, as soon.
Speaker 2: As it hit the base in my finger, okay, I
Speaker 2: just started crying. I was like, what is happening.
Speaker 4: I didn't even think it was gonna I didn't even
Speaker 4: feel like I was feeling no type of way.
Speaker 2: I just want to try the ring on, see what
Speaker 2: I look like, go to a rock, And.
Speaker 4: Suddenly I was just like, I'm about to cry, you guys,
Speaker 4: and they're like the person I feel like, what what is?
Speaker 2: Who are you?
Speaker 3: You do want to be married?
Speaker 2: I was like, I guess, oh my god, who are you?
Speaker 2: Oh my god? That makes me think of I'll never forget.
Speaker 1: Like I was in my friends my girlfriend's wedding, Nisha,
Speaker 1: and it was during a time where like I wasn't
Speaker 1: happy at all in my relationship, and but I was
Speaker 1: engaged and watching their like I just remember watching they
Speaker 1: had like the montage of their whole love.
Speaker 2: Story, and I was fucking miserable.
Speaker 1: I wanted to like, I was so sad at the wedding.
Speaker 1: I was, Yeah, I was so sad. I was like
Speaker 1: mad at them for loving each other, right, I was like,
Speaker 1: how can they find love? They only know each other
Speaker 1: for like one year and they're getting married. Meanwhile, I've known,
Speaker 1: I've been with this school.
Speaker 2: We don't have a love story like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I know, yeah, I could see I
Speaker 1: could see how those those it could be triggering for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And even like you said, you don't date, you're focusing
Speaker 4: in your career, Like I admire that too, because don't
Speaker 4: let us get in love interest.
Speaker 2: We were getting distracted like a motherfucker.
Speaker 3: And that's what they do. And it's just such like
Speaker 3: so my everything again, everything that happened in the book
Speaker 3: loosely happened in one way or another. My sister and
Speaker 3: brother made me set up a Bumble profile and I
Speaker 3: was like, it's nothing but trash out here, and they're like,
Speaker 3: you're swiping too fast. I said, but why do I
Speaker 3: have to take the time to think about if I
Speaker 3: actually like you shouldn't be a gut reaction. So I'm
Speaker 3: like steady, like no, no, no. So then somebody was like,
Speaker 3: go to match because it's more serious. Okay. I paid
Speaker 3: thirty nine ninety nine to be on that for four minutes.
Speaker 3: I literally deleted the app four minutes after I signed
Speaker 3: up for it because I was like, it's the same
Speaker 3: fools that are on Bumble, they just paying for it.
Speaker 3: I was so angry. But that's the thing. I'm like,
Speaker 3: why do I have to spend the time get telling
Speaker 3: you about myself, then you ultimately finding out what I do,
Speaker 3: and you asking me for some type of hookup or
Speaker 3: asking me to help you with your writing. It's just
Speaker 3: like there are too many different factors for me to consider,
Speaker 3: and then you're definitely not gonna be around my kids,
Speaker 3: Like absolutely not so this in this season in my life,
Speaker 3: I'm not focusing on that.
Speaker 4: Even for me, like now that I'm dating someone kind
Speaker 4: of seriously, I'm really like I tell Erica like I
Speaker 4: was supposed to go to his house late and then
Speaker 4: he asked.
Speaker 5: He told me he was hungry, and I was like,
Speaker 5: are you want me to pick you up something?
Speaker 4: And he said yes, And I was pissed like this,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, which, this is a part of it,
Speaker 4: Like people care for you, you care back. It's very bad,
Speaker 4: I know, right, And I'm just like, after being in
Speaker 4: such a draining relationship for so long where someone was
Speaker 4: depressed and abusive and mean, I'm like, after that, I
Speaker 4: was like, never the fuck again. You're never gonna trick me.
Speaker 4: You're never gonna get me to be all acting crazy
Speaker 4: because I feel like my DNA was intertwined with this
Speaker 4: person to the fact to the point where I knew something.
Speaker 4: I knew all the flaws and I knew I couldn't
Speaker 4: help them, and I still was comfortable in the pain.
Speaker 4: And even even now untangling that that comfort, this comfort
Speaker 4: in this terrible place is the strangest mind fuck for me,
Speaker 4: Like I need there. This is why I'm in therapy
Speaker 4: because untangling that what I'm connecting to something that's so
Speaker 4: abusive is like I had to look at myself and
Speaker 4: the mayor like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Speaker 4: You have some real shit you need to deal with,
Speaker 4: because if this is what you're missing and this is
Speaker 4: what feels comfortable to you, this is this is a problem. Yeah,
Speaker 4: And like to the point where I'm moving, I'm trying
Speaker 4: to move forward. And because I do, I like, I
Speaker 4: want to be in love and be married and shit
Speaker 4: without you know, dropping off food and stuff. But also
Speaker 4: I'm just like I have to really come out of
Speaker 4: untangle that to be able to accept someone else and
Speaker 4: see a healthy, a healthy you know, relationship and see
Speaker 4: how it looks and give myself that way. Because when
Speaker 4: I finally cut that shit off, I was like, don't
Speaker 4: even say relationships.
Speaker 2: To me, Like even when Erica, when you you've been saying.
Speaker 5: Boyfriend lately, I realize it triggers me, Like.
Speaker 2: I have type of.
Speaker 4: Show shut the fuck up, right, we're bad bitches for
Speaker 4: life long forever.
Speaker 3: It's so funny because we are, we are so alike.
Speaker 3: I remember that it was it wasn't triggering me for
Speaker 3: me to see the kids because obviously you've had a
Speaker 3: child with the person you're talking about, and I have too.
Speaker 3: But it took me some time to not have everybody
Speaker 3: talk trash about my ex husband. I was like, you
Speaker 3: know what, that doesn't help you. Guys got to give
Speaker 3: me time to heal and never say never. You don't
Speaker 3: know if I'm not going to get back with him,
Speaker 3: Just give me time to make my own decisions. And
Speaker 3: that I remember that pissed my father off because of
Speaker 3: everything that it was going on through the separation, and
Speaker 3: I was like, but still at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: you know that is the person that I'm married. I
Speaker 3: was just like you, I would rather be. I was
Speaker 3: comfortable in the pain. I'm not there anymore. And it's
Speaker 3: funny when I talk about him now with the kids.
Speaker 3: I finally allowed myself to heal, to talk about him
Speaker 3: like when we were growing up and how he was
Speaker 3: and how he laughs and all of that, and give
Speaker 3: the kids great memories of their father, because it's hard,
Speaker 3: like they're never gonna see the lighter side to him.
Speaker 3: They barely remember that. My son doesn't remember it at all,
Speaker 3: my daughter barely does. They're only going to remember this
Speaker 3: guy that they see now, which.
Speaker 2: Is not who he was.
Speaker 3: I would who not who? Right, God forbid he passed away.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want them to remember him like that.
Speaker 1: What was the turning point for you where you realized
Speaker 1: that you were past it?
Speaker 2: Like? Was there some specific or was it the time
Speaker 2: in the hotel?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It was a time in the hotel because that
Speaker 3: year he had had seven seizures and one year and
Speaker 3: he couldn't even remember it, and you would tell him
Speaker 3: and he wouldn't remember it. And he also had issues
Speaker 3: with his family. Who I can I his parents. I
Speaker 3: cannot stand to this day where on the seventh seizure,
Speaker 3: I told him you're not coming home. You stay in
Speaker 3: that hospital until you're well, and they signed his release
Speaker 3: forms and took him out because to them, it's not
Speaker 3: that big a deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that not that big a deal is a big deal,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: You know when I was talking to my therapist yesterday,
Speaker 1: she was asking me if I still felt like we
Speaker 1: and me and her we went to on a little
Speaker 1: trip this last week, and I was telling her that
Speaker 1: I still feel tethered in some capacity to this person.
Speaker 1: I'm always worried about him, like it's not that I
Speaker 1: love I do love, I'll always love him, but like
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't want to be with him, but
Speaker 1: I'm always worried about him, worried if he's about his safety,
Speaker 1: specifically worried about his mental state, and like, how at
Speaker 1: what point am I gonna like.
Speaker 2: Let go of that?
Speaker 1: And it's like, how do you do that when you
Speaker 1: share a human with someone? Because it's not even it
Speaker 1: is about some of it is like my my like
Speaker 1: letting go of whatever that those last final pieces of
Speaker 1: whatever that relationship is. But a lot of it has
Speaker 1: to do with like not wanting my daughter to experience that,
Speaker 1: and like not wanting her to feel hurt by his
Speaker 1: mental state or her to feel hurt by anything that
Speaker 1: could potentially happen to him because of the lack of
Speaker 1: safety that he and the people that he has around him. Like,
Speaker 1: how have you been able to kind of like separate that.
Speaker 3: So that'll never go I honestly don't think that'll ever
Speaker 3: go away, because I thought you were gonna say, trying
Speaker 3: to hold onto a part of the relationship, but no,
Speaker 3: I'm with you. I feel the same way. I don't.
Speaker 3: I could give a shit, especially because I don't get
Speaker 3: child support. I could give a shit about what happens
Speaker 3: to that man as a man. But what I am
Speaker 3: so concerned about is, like I said, what my daughter
Speaker 3: goes through or what my son could go through because
Speaker 3: it is a vicious cycle in his family. His father
Speaker 3: was the same way to him, and I don't want
Speaker 3: my son to become an alcoholic and I don't want
Speaker 3: my daughter to be taking care of a grown man.
Speaker 3: And I mean, it all goes back. I guess to
Speaker 3: my anxiety, and I have to tell myself, what is
Speaker 3: the absolute worst that could happen? And I always go
Speaker 3: to a place like te says, like she's like I always
Speaker 3: go to a place of death, and I'm like one
Speaker 3: step from that. I'm always like severely injured. But I
Speaker 3: have to remind myself, like the worst that could happen is,
Speaker 3: you know my daughter, She'll always come to me with
Speaker 3: her problems, so I can I can block something really
Speaker 3: bad from happening, I think with my daughter and my son.
Speaker 3: But it's it's I'm never gonna stop worrying about it.
Speaker 3: It's just I got to stop thinking about the worst
Speaker 3: possible thing happening as a result of that I know.
Speaker 1: I know, I've I've been like plagued by it lately.
Speaker 1: I've been like seeing signs of like telling you me
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Yo.
Speaker 2: There's a crows. Black crows are following me.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I've seen them everywhere, And like my
Speaker 1: boyfriend was like, uh, you're tripping, Like you need to
Speaker 1: look up the meaning black crows. They don't always mean death,
Speaker 1: they don't always mean negativity. And I was like, yeah, nigga, no,
Speaker 1: But like I know, I was like, I know how
Speaker 1: it makes to that when I see them and they're
Speaker 1: literally following me. They were circling my house yesterday. I
Speaker 1: just don't know if I'm noticing more than ever. But
Speaker 1: then there was a moment the other day and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I have to like I've decided that
Speaker 1: I'm going to combat this with so much light that
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to give it any more power
Speaker 1: because it's starting to like take over and I'm starting
Speaker 1: to be fearful that something negative is going to happen
Speaker 1: to him. And I know a lot of that is
Speaker 1: based in fear because of our past relationship, because of
Speaker 1: the decisions that he's made in our relationship. He wanted
Speaker 1: me to feel like he was the leader and I
Speaker 1: could trust him. But time and time again, his leadership failed,
Speaker 1: and therefore it always does. I don't trust your leadership,
Speaker 1: you know, And like, even to this day, he's always
Speaker 1: you have to trust me.
Speaker 6: I'm like, maybe you don't realize your track record is poor,
Speaker 6: but I think, like I'm glad that you said that
Speaker 6: you don't know if it ever does, because and because
Speaker 6: I really felt that way too, Like I don't know
Speaker 6: if I'll ever not worry about how.
Speaker 2: This affects you.
Speaker 3: It's probably just the severity of how much you worry
Speaker 3: about it, but I think you're always worry about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like now that I'm dating someone else, I'm
Speaker 1: like also feeling like like is.
Speaker 2: This unfair to him?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 1: Is this unfair to him that I'm still in some capacity?
Speaker 1: I get like the other day he saw my whole
Speaker 1: mood shift based on an interaction that I had with
Speaker 1: a man that I used to love, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: how does that make him feel?
Speaker 3: Like? Is pay?
Speaker 2: Because like, clearly this man still affects.
Speaker 1: Me in some capacity, and these are things that I'm
Speaker 1: now having to, like, you know, honor and adjust and
Speaker 1: think about now that I am in a relationship. But
Speaker 1: it's more so I worry. It's not about the relationship
Speaker 1: or the fact that it's over. It's really like I
Speaker 1: don't want to have to tell my daughter something like
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to wake up tomorrow and
Speaker 1: be like, so, daddy, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like yes, And then so I told and I told
Speaker 2: him that too. I was like, they're gonna make me.
Speaker 1: You're gonna make me have this conversation with her, like
Speaker 1: you because sometimes I'd be like, nigga, do you want
Speaker 1: to die? Right?
Speaker 8: And I haven't seizures in a year, I will do
Speaker 8: you think it's gonna add to your lunch? Like I
Speaker 8: don't understand, Like I just I don't want to have
Speaker 8: to have that conversation like that's just yet one more
Speaker 8: way that I will have felt hurt by you, Like
Speaker 8: can you.
Speaker 2: Just get this right?
Speaker 4: I'm just I think it's just like let me be
Speaker 4: frea not having you don't have control.
Speaker 2: You don't have That's what it is.
Speaker 3: And that's what anxiety is. You can't control things exactly.
Speaker 4: And I feel like this is like I think there's
Speaker 4: no heartbreak like or no breakup like the breakup of
Speaker 4: the person you share a child with and usually your
Speaker 4: first child with, or you know what I mean, like
Speaker 4: because my thing is not like a care about his
Speaker 4: health there as well being, but also like I'm judging
Speaker 4: myself for caring.
Speaker 2: I'm like, want to shake the shit out of me
Speaker 2: and I can't, and that that that makes me sad.
Speaker 2: It makes me sad.
Speaker 4: I know all the facts, I know this person is this, this,
Speaker 4: and that this person does not honor me, does not
Speaker 4: respect me, and there's still some fucking shit inside of
Speaker 4: me that really gives a fuck.
Speaker 2: And I think it is because I thought.
Speaker 4: I don't have this family and they're like, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm like, why did you have to fucking why.
Speaker 2: Can't you just grow the fuck up like everybody else's
Speaker 2: man who had a kid? But did they No? I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I'm just that's.
Speaker 3: Because because you never realize how many people are in
Speaker 3: shitty relationships. Because once I got divorced, everybody wanted to
Speaker 3: tell me about how they hated their husband. People were like,
Speaker 3: I can't wait till he dies because then I'm not
Speaker 3: kidding you, it's crazy. It was not until I got
Speaker 3: divorced that people who I thought had fabulous marriages they
Speaker 3: cannot stand their husband. So don't believe that hype, do not.
Speaker 4: I saw my parents have like a long, crazy, fighting,
Speaker 4: cheating relationship like till this day they're married and who
Speaker 4: knows what the fuck they're doing, but like crazy, And
Speaker 4: I always felt like my mom was just like.
Speaker 5: Just like couldn't couldn't do without him.
Speaker 2: She would just pass out.
Speaker 4: And faint if this nigga left, Like no matter what
Speaker 4: he did, she stayed and stayed and stayed, even if
Speaker 4: it was even if it was just craziness and the
Speaker 4: chaos in the house. And my whole thing was like,
Speaker 4: I do not want to be this person. I do
Speaker 4: not want to depend on someone so bad that like,
Speaker 4: no matter what, I won't leave them. And then you
Speaker 4: know what I think I'm I'm kind of like I'm
Speaker 4: kind of battling with the.
Speaker 5: Feeling of like I'm not her.
Speaker 4: I left, but I'm still hurting really badly from the
Speaker 4: disappointment of this person.
Speaker 7: I'm gonna cry again, Oh lord.
Speaker 2: I'm always crying this month.
Speaker 4: He's crying as you But you know, I feel like
Speaker 4: I feel like that's what something like a lot of
Speaker 4: moms deal with, you know, a lot of just holding
Speaker 4: on to something and loving someone so hard that you
Speaker 4: just you almost have to learn to live with it,
Speaker 4: learn to like give it space and live with the
Speaker 4: fact that you're going to love someone that may not.
Speaker 2: Love you back.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not the way that you want. And I
Speaker 2: think it's like a morning you have to mourn it.
Speaker 2: You have to you have to cry, you have to
Speaker 2: cry it out, you have to release it. You can't.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing too, like us talking about like
Speaker 1: black women that were always so strong, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's great, but like when do we get the
Speaker 1: space to not be, you know, and to feel it
Speaker 1: and to mourn it and to cry and to scream
Speaker 1: and to just you know, not feel like we failed.
Speaker 2: It was all our fault. We didn't try hard enough,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, because like I said, I was deciding by
Speaker 3: a Saturday where I was living. I was taking the
Speaker 3: kids around to see apartments. I was going to steamroll
Speaker 3: it and go full steam ahead. And my aunt told me,
Speaker 3: she was like, can you just for me, just stop
Speaker 3: for a moment and feel it and mourn and grieve.
Speaker 3: And I did, Like I had to sit and mourn
Speaker 3: the fact that the person that I when he was
Speaker 3: a good person, when he had his ups like, that
Speaker 3: person had died. Basically he had completely turned into somebody
Speaker 3: I didn't know. So that's why I also think if
Speaker 3: something happens to him now, I'm not as attached to
Speaker 3: that person because alcohol, addiction and depression can really turn
Speaker 3: you into a completely different person. So that's not the
Speaker 3: person I'm married. I had to mourn the death, and
Speaker 3: it was painful to mourn the death of the person
Speaker 3: that I had married while they are still alive, right, I.
Speaker 2: Know, because memories are a motherfucker man.
Speaker 1: They will just pop up and you will hold on
Speaker 1: to them so hard. Those moments where you're like, I
Speaker 1: I saw the best part of you.
Speaker 2: What happened? What happened to that moment where we've made
Speaker 2: those vows where we said we.
Speaker 3: Made these people, we made these little people.
Speaker 2: We made these people. You look in my eyes.
Speaker 1: You said you were going to promise, you promise you're
Speaker 1: gonna protect us. You promise you we're gonna fight for us.
Speaker 1: You promise you're gonna show up for us.
Speaker 3: Right, and it's like now left for these big hands,
Speaker 3: big Fea leave me at the house of home during COVID.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, wow, what's your sign?
Speaker 3: Christine Gemini?
Speaker 5: Oh what's your birthday?
Speaker 3: June fourteenth?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, same as my baby daddy and Trump.
Speaker 1: I know, I know when you said Gemini, I knew
Speaker 1: you were gonna say June fourteenth.
Speaker 2: I don't know why not that you remind.
Speaker 3: Me of him? Oh okay, funny.
Speaker 2: He's actually very intelligent. He's just you know, troubled. So
Speaker 2: I saw I saw that.
Speaker 1: You know, you've obviously you've explored and written so many
Speaker 1: different things about you know, motherhood and what I was
Speaker 1: reading this article today that you had written recently about
Speaker 1: infertility in the black community, and it really struck me
Speaker 1: because I think, like me and Jamila have talked about like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're in our thirties now, and like the
Speaker 1: idea of freezing your eggs is like this big thing
Speaker 1: amongst friends. Lot of our friends don't have kids, and
Speaker 1: you know, people are starting to have children later and
Speaker 1: later because women, you know, we're our careers are taking
Speaker 1: off and you know, our priorities have changed, and you know,
Speaker 1: oftentimes like I'll laugh and be like I don't need
Speaker 1: to freeze my egg like I'm a shit work. I'm good,
Speaker 1: but like I don't actually know that to be true
Speaker 1: for sure, right.
Speaker 6: And.
Speaker 2: Also like.
Speaker 1: When I was reading an article I was, I was
Speaker 1: really what struck me the most was like the idea
Speaker 1: that and I find because I'm Mexican too, like the
Speaker 1: stigma around like like Latino Latino people, Latino people is
Speaker 1: that like we just are baby making machines, right, Like
Speaker 1: we just pop them out like every six months. And
Speaker 1: the same with black the same with the Black community
Speaker 1: that we you know, because we just keep having kids
Speaker 1: that we can't afford, right, have all these children welfare, right,
Speaker 1: and but no, no one really talks about you know,
Speaker 1: women that want to have children that really they can't
Speaker 1: or that have had issues and the shame that goes
Speaker 1: along with even talking about it amongst especially in the
Speaker 1: black community. I feel like it's way more normal and
Speaker 1: like I hear white women talk about the shit like
Speaker 1: they're ordering.
Speaker 3: Coffee hello, and men and men there's a lot of
Speaker 3: shame with men too. And I'm a mom, prenured me
Speaker 3: my team when somebody wrote about that, like the infertility
Speaker 3: that men experience. But you're right, like among the white community.
Speaker 3: It's it's no big deal, like it's almost it's almost
Speaker 3: and again this is it's now an employee benefit, so
Speaker 3: it's a.
Speaker 2: Designer it's almost like, well, it's an employee benefit.
Speaker 3: So so basically, if somebody wants to explore freezing their
Speaker 3: eggs or fertility options, that is now an available company benefit. Wow,
Speaker 3: because they have made it so mainstream.
Speaker 1: It's literally like, well, you can't have you can't have
Speaker 1: a baby naturally, It's fine, we can design one for.
Speaker 3: You, but that's or do your career. You're going to
Speaker 3: become a manager, senior manager, then let's put a baby
Speaker 3: in there and then we'll keep going on our career
Speaker 3: like it's now a planned part of your career.
Speaker 2: Right, And it's just crazy. I mean I think too.
Speaker 1: I mean, when I was reading the article I was,
Speaker 1: I took aid.
Speaker 2: It said.
Speaker 1: Said only eight percent of black women seek medical health
Speaker 1: to get pregnant, compared to fifteen percent of white women.
Speaker 1: But it can also be attributed to the historical belief
Speaker 1: that infertility doesn't exist within the black community. The black
Speaker 1: woman has forever The black woman as forever fertile is
Speaker 1: a notion held over from slavery. And I didn't even
Speaker 1: realize how deep, how deep that is. And it makes
Speaker 1: total sense because yeah, like we had the children, we
Speaker 1: also took care of so many people's children, like we
Speaker 1: were wet nurses, like we just we almost are like
Speaker 1: considered just the care taker, and therefore we must be
Speaker 1: able to bear children as well.
Speaker 3: Exactly. You know what drives me crazy, informal duelers. You
Speaker 3: know what drives me crazy is we are these maternal
Speaker 3: essence beings on the planet. Yeah, we're so unappreciated. It's
Speaker 3: it's wild, It's absolutely wild. We're raising children from our communities,
Speaker 3: our friends, kids, our families, kids, other races. We are
Speaker 3: these caring, nurturing our men, these caring, nurturing beings, and
Speaker 3: yet we are so unappreciated. What is the to me?
Speaker 3: It just it blows my mind the dichotomy there.
Speaker 2: And they wonder where the angry black women right exactly?
Speaker 3: How about you respect the fact that I just gave
Speaker 3: you a fucking caprice son. How about that? How about
Speaker 3: I just worked eight hours and now you're asking me
Speaker 3: to play roadblocks with you. I don't feel like it.
Speaker 3: My daughter, every day.
Speaker 4: I found myself like snapping and my daughter's like, like,
Speaker 4: don't call me crazy, right, talking to me like a
Speaker 4: chick on the street, right, right exactly.
Speaker 1: I was even thinking about, you know, the idea, the
Speaker 1: controversy that surrounded like Beyonce's pregnancies, right, like and like
Speaker 1: the and the secret the secretness of it all and
Speaker 1: the seculation of whether or not she had them, and
Speaker 1: like really so much judgment within our community against her,
Speaker 1: like the idea that she can't have kids, like.
Speaker 2: The superwoman woman who was you know, down all these
Speaker 2: amazing things. Hat she also she can't have it.
Speaker 4: But but do you think it was the black community
Speaker 4: putting that sigma on the charade that we thought took
Speaker 4: place of the pretend pregnancy. Do you think had had
Speaker 4: We're definitely speculating, right because we don't know Yeah, okay,
Speaker 4: we don't know if Blue Ivy she carried her or whatever.
Speaker 4: But like, do you think has she been like, hey,
Speaker 4: I'm super robot Queen Beyonce, and I am having trouble
Speaker 4: getting pregnant. Like I think I think our community would
Speaker 4: have been more receptive.
Speaker 2: I think it should.
Speaker 4: It could have been a very like a turning point
Speaker 4: for this conversation in our community. Had she been willing
Speaker 4: to maybe express before Lemonade that she had miscarriages, that hey,
Speaker 4: I can dance and sing and backflip and I could,
Speaker 4: you know, do all these things.
Speaker 2: But I'm struggling here.
Speaker 4: I think that's why for me, like I love Beyonce,
Speaker 4: don't come for me be high.
Speaker 3: Look. I was about to say, wait, pause, disclaimer, which
Speaker 3: won't do because I have a picture Beyonce is Mona
Speaker 3: Lisa in my office right, But I think, but but
Speaker 3: you know what, as much as I say that would
Speaker 3: absolutely drives me crazy about Beyonce and have been being
Speaker 3: her fan since she was sixteen, is she is a
Speaker 3: business and she is a brand, and you're absolutely right
Speaker 3: we have no right to know that information. But what
Speaker 3: she will always do first and foremost is protect her brand.
Speaker 3: So back, I always say, like, what drove me crazy
Speaker 3: about her? When she was doing Deja Vu and did
Speaker 3: I Am Sausha? Fearce was like, why are you making
Speaker 3: these cutesy songs when you're engaged or you're married and
Speaker 3: you're really going through struggles and you're going through relationship
Speaker 3: issues and I feel like you're still singing about upgrade
Speaker 3: you Like I need you to be relatable and then
Speaker 3: she came out with Beyonce, and then she came out
Speaker 3: with Lemonade, and I was like, thank you God.
Speaker 4: Likely well, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, unfortunately in her defense, not that I know you
Speaker 1: Beyonce at all, but she's.
Speaker 2: Been doing this a long time.
Speaker 1: She's been a brand, No, but she has she's been
Speaker 1: She started this when she was a child. Essentially, people, yeah,
Speaker 1: white people told her what she was allowed to do
Speaker 1: and how she was allowed to show up and the thing,
Speaker 1: and like imagine like how many deals that she couldn't
Speaker 1: she wouldn't have gotten had she had had a lemonade
Speaker 1: in two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Four, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I get
Speaker 2: all that. I think. I think honestly, her sister was
Speaker 2: really took made her brave.
Speaker 3: I loved her. I'm reading this.
Speaker 1: And I also love but I also say, like you know,
Speaker 1: you said, going back to the pregnancy and whether or
Speaker 1: not whatever, how how it had she been open enough,
Speaker 1: it would have you know, opened up the conversation.
Speaker 2: But like that's the problem is that we don't.
Speaker 1: She didn't feel safe doing that, she didn't feel encouraged
Speaker 1: enough to do that, she didn't feel empowered enough to
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: Even being fucking Beyonce.
Speaker 3: If that wasn't you think she would? But do you think?
Speaker 3: But that's what goes back to my point, like, I
Speaker 3: don't know that she would like it took her so
Speaker 3: long to even address the fact that people were talking
Speaker 3: about her daughter's hair when my kid was running around
Speaker 3: with the same hair, and I wrote an article for
Speaker 3: Harper's Bizarre about it, like I'm always I am in
Speaker 3: a different position. I guess as a person. I don't
Speaker 3: think that Beyonce would ever be in that position to
Speaker 3: just be like, look, this is my daughter's head, Get
Speaker 3: the fuck off.
Speaker 4: I feel like, now, now, after all these years, she
Speaker 4: is coming into herself and.
Speaker 2: She's like, I'm rich, bitch, I'm gonna talk to my
Speaker 2: black ship.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say, yeah, there's a there's a million billion
Speaker 4: dollars in the elevator.
Speaker 3: Fuck y'all right.
Speaker 4: But it's taken for her to be so long I'm
Speaker 4: there forty to be like, okay, fuck it, let me
Speaker 4: be me and you know what, And I respect that
Speaker 4: because we don't know her existence and she has been
Speaker 4: doing the ship for forever.
Speaker 5: She probably was programmed to be a low key robot's.
Speaker 3: The juvenile industry and navigating fear.
Speaker 5: At any point this could be taken away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, God, bless your Beyonce.
Speaker 5: Making bringing her out of the closet.
Speaker 1: But I use that as an example of, like, you know,
Speaker 1: black women not feeling safe enough or comfortable enough to
Speaker 1: talk openly and discuss, you know, their issues, whether it's
Speaker 1: about you know, infertility, whether it's about you know, whatever,
Speaker 1: it is, therapy, all those things. And you know, white
Speaker 1: women feeling very empowered by so.
Speaker 2: Many of my white friends growing up, like would.
Speaker 1: Brag about going to therapy like, oh yeah, my therapist
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I'd be like, bitch, we're talking
Speaker 1: about this out loud.
Speaker 2: Like, and it just became normal.
Speaker 1: It was normalized to discussed your feelings, normalized to talk
Speaker 1: about your vagina, normalized to talk about you know, your whatever.
Speaker 1: And especially and don't even get me started and as
Speaker 1: far as black men talking about infertility, because they would never,
Speaker 1: never take accountability.
Speaker 2: It's not me, it's not me. My shit work, my
Speaker 2: shit work, right right right.
Speaker 3: And but you know what, in contrast to that, to
Speaker 3: that very point, you got Britney Spears who lost her
Speaker 3: damn mind and she has two kids and it's okay
Speaker 3: for her to lose her mind and lose her kids
Speaker 3: and on Instagram and be crazy, and Beyonce could never
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 1: Well, child services would be at Beyonce's house if she
Speaker 1: was making these dance videos.
Speaker 4: I don't think Brittany has her kids because she's she's
Speaker 4: fully full time dedicated to dancing in the living room.
Speaker 2: But nobody says, but.
Speaker 4: You know what, that's so true, not even just Brittany,
Speaker 4: who's clearly gone left field. And what's the other, uh,
Speaker 4: the other white chick who's like a pop singer who
Speaker 4: they she overdose on heroin and then she.
Speaker 3: Like some heroin and then like six months later, hosted
Speaker 3: an award show or some ship.
Speaker 2: Nobody's so ship. Demian's fun not to say you gotta bed.
Speaker 3: You know she's struggling truth, struggling a drug.
Speaker 4: Whitney so damn bad Whitney's they're dragging her in her death.
Speaker 4: We do not have the same privilege to be to
Speaker 4: fuck up, to be parents and fun up, to be
Speaker 4: to exist in fuck up. It doesn't exist. We can
Speaker 4: barely smoke weed and have kids and talk about sex.
Speaker 4: I mean we can, We're not Beyonce, but it's just
Speaker 4: this stigma that we can only be one way, and
Speaker 4: that's right.
Speaker 2: If we fuck it up, we're done. That's how reputation
Speaker 2: for life.
Speaker 3: We can only play the supporting role. We cannot have lives, full, full,
Speaker 3: holistic lives. We have to be the supporting girl.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: I even feel bad because I didn't really think about
Speaker 4: infertility because obviously it's not something that I personally have
Speaker 4: dealt with, and I don't have a lot of friends
Speaker 4: who have per se like close friends, but I do have.
Speaker 4: My best friend is the same age as me. She's
Speaker 4: about to be thirty three, and she's like obsessed with
Speaker 4: wanting a family and having a baby, and like me
Speaker 4: and me and our other friend have friends like kids.
Speaker 5: Everybody's starting to have kids, and like her whole thing
Speaker 5: is like, where's my.
Speaker 2: Kid, where's my baby, where's my husband.
Speaker 4: I'm like, chill out, chill out, like I think about
Speaker 4: I mean, know, if my thirty five, I'm just gonna
Speaker 4: do with a friend, I'm gonna freeze my eggs. I'm like, girl,
Speaker 4: shut the fuck up. And the truth is I'm a bitch.
Speaker 4: I'll be like, guess some white people shit, you want
Speaker 4: to freeze your eggs. But you're thirty two and a half.
Speaker 3: Chill, You're funny. I'm so busy mothering everybody, you know,
Speaker 3: my best friend. So I'm like, I want that experience
Speaker 3: for you, and you would make wonderful and I do.
Speaker 3: I do it. I do want.
Speaker 1: I want you to, but I don't want you to
Speaker 1: worry about it. And I just feel like it's just
Speaker 1: not funny.
Speaker 2: It's easy for you to.
Speaker 1: Say I can as you have a kid.
Speaker 2: Exactly and what she says, and I understand that. And
Speaker 2: then now at thirty two, I'm like, hmm, do.
Speaker 4: I want to kid? I guess, shit, I guess I
Speaker 4: gotta got I got a three three years to decide,
Speaker 4: and shit, because that's what the doctor tells you. You got
Speaker 4: to be by thirty five. Your shit's getting old.
Speaker 3: And my doctor told me at twenty nine. So that's
Speaker 3: why I pretty much wrote the article. Was not because
Speaker 3: I was experiencing fertility, but both times were a challenge
Speaker 3: for me. So with my nine year old, I had
Speaker 3: proclamshaw and I was and basically I was in labor
Speaker 3: from a Wednesday to a Sunday. I was having attractions.
Speaker 3: And then with my son when he was born. My
Speaker 3: blood pressure shot to two thirty and I could feel
Speaker 3: nerves in my brain. And the neurologists came in and said,
Speaker 3: a woman of your age we having children And I
Speaker 3: was twenty nine.
Speaker 4: Wait, so I had preclamcia, So this age in preclamsia
Speaker 4: have relation.
Speaker 3: Those were two different pregnants. Okay, No, those are two
Speaker 3: different pregnants.
Speaker 4: But even if your blood pressure was high with your
Speaker 4: second that means that was proclamsia too.
Speaker 3: No, they didn't tell me that. They didn't diagnose it
Speaker 3: its proclampsit the second time, of course, not because you're black.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say that sounds right.
Speaker 3: Basically, they gave me, basically a cat scan, told me
Speaker 3: I was fine, and then instaid a woman of my
Speaker 3: age shouldn't be having any more children.
Speaker 4: Wow, wow, Yeah, and we never we don't really consider
Speaker 4: also the fact that you know, freezing eggs is a
Speaker 4: very expensive process and it's not very accessible.
Speaker 1: You know IVF And when I was reading an article
Speaker 1: it can be up to twelve thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 1: and like, we don't want to talk about what black
Speaker 1: women and women of color get paid annually, right, And
Speaker 1: the idea that if we ever before we even can
Speaker 1: even possibly even afford that, we're probably well into our
Speaker 1: late thirties, right, you know, especially if we're not married
Speaker 1: and we want to do this on our own and
Speaker 1: we don't have someone contributing to that.
Speaker 2: It's like these conversations just they just don't.
Speaker 1: They don't happen, like I have never Like I have
Speaker 1: one friend who she's black, and she actually did go
Speaker 1: through IBF and she was there, like I felt like
Speaker 1: she was almost ashamed to talk about it, you know,
Speaker 1: and because it feels and I get it.
Speaker 2: It's not even just being black.
Speaker 1: I think as women, we feel like we this is
Speaker 1: our like civic duty, like we must be able to
Speaker 1: do this, and if not, somehow we're less then we're
Speaker 1: less than a.
Speaker 3: Woman, yeah, less than human?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So I think normalizing the conversations like white
Speaker 1: people do, like literally, like they are excited about their
Speaker 1: IVF treatments, right, they're excited to tell us me about
Speaker 1: like what they're.
Speaker 3: There is tell them, you know, and it's it's funny.
Speaker 3: So the article that you're referencing, I interviewed Kimrie who
Speaker 3: was on Single Parents or I can't remember what the
Speaker 3: show was called, but I know her from being on
Speaker 3: the MINDI Project. She was when Mindy was dating the
Speaker 3: white guy. She was his ex wife, and I think
Speaker 3: she's absolutely gorgeous. She has sent me all these photos
Speaker 3: of her doing IVF and she was like, and make
Speaker 3: sure you shared with everybody. And it's expensive. And she's
Speaker 3: an actress, she's a working actress, and she's still like,
Speaker 3: it's expensive, it's painful. There's for some reason we don't
Speaker 3: talk about it as black women. Please, like, educate as
Speaker 3: many Black women as you can about it.
Speaker 2: That's amazing, that's so cool.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm grateful because I'm grateful that I stumbled upon
Speaker 1: that article because I really I never even thought about
Speaker 1: it in the perspective of, you know, the shame surrounding
Speaker 1: it as black women, and you know, the stigma of
Speaker 1: the fact, like the stigma that follows us that we
Speaker 1: are just these fertile, myrtle women, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: just not It's not always the case, and we should be.
Speaker 2: Able to talk about it and normalize it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm stressed up.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh god, now I feel bad.
Speaker 2: I need to free some eggs.
Speaker 4: And you know what else, people don't really to discuss
Speaker 4: which I guess is the same can go.
Speaker 5: And it's not infertility, but like early menopause.
Speaker 4: I have a friend, a friend of a friend who
Speaker 4: just was like, you know, she's like thirty nine or
Speaker 4: in her forties, and she was like, her period started
Speaker 4: getting less and less. And I was like, did you
Speaker 4: want to have kids? And she was like, I wanted
Speaker 4: the option, you know, And it's just like just again,
Speaker 4: one of those things I had even dawned. I mean,
Speaker 4: what if my period just started to slim up? You know,
Speaker 4: just so many things that we're not discussing in that
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of us are dealing with and
Speaker 4: we're not really recognizing, and.
Speaker 3: A lot of things that I feel like we are
Speaker 3: still praying on. And it's not that I'm not a
Speaker 3: woman of faith. I just think that in twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: with all of the resources and all of the community
Speaker 3: that we have available to us that women in previous
Speaker 3: generations didn't have and all you did have was faith
Speaker 3: in your neighbor, that we should do a little bit
Speaker 3: more than leverage faith and.
Speaker 5: Like a fertility ceremony right and.
Speaker 3: Whole faith in like such a high regard. It's funny
Speaker 3: that so that article you're talking about the infertility one.
Speaker 3: People were talking about how family members were telling them
Speaker 3: to pray on it. And then I wrote another piece
Speaker 3: which is kind of related, about the fact that a
Speaker 3: lot of women nowadays are turning back to a lot
Speaker 3: of women of color are turning back to being brujas
Speaker 3: and and women who are more spiritual than religious in
Speaker 3: a very specific faith. And the backlash that I received
Speaker 3: from older black women and mothers about that article. How
Speaker 3: dare you say that products like candles and oils and
Speaker 3: whatnot can replace Jesus. I didn't say that.
Speaker 1: I hear that.
Speaker 4: Girl.
Speaker 5: I went to my cousin's house, sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2: You, and you know you didn't know my cousin's getting
Speaker 2: hairit it.
Speaker 5: I was now with this other girl that.
Speaker 4: Was there, and she has some some sage, so I
Speaker 4: just pick up the stage.
Speaker 2: I'm talking.
Speaker 5: I start lighting this sage and you know, I'm thinking
Speaker 5: I'm doing a good deed for the room. I started
Speaker 5: saging everybody.
Speaker 2: The girl was like, a no, I don't do all that.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you're allergic.
Speaker 5: She was like, I believe in Jesus.
Speaker 2: I was like, girl, Jesus made stage.
Speaker 3: Mean my daughter's like out bad spirits. Like she's like,
Speaker 3: it's the first of the month. We got to clean
Speaker 3: the house. We got a sage. I want the juju out,
Speaker 3: send your daughter to me. Right, we hold on the
Speaker 3: faith way too much.
Speaker 4: Is a blindly blindly And my my biggest thing is
Speaker 4: like I you know, I respect everybody's faith or whatever path.
Speaker 5: I feel like all paths to God, whatever path you want.
Speaker 4: To take, Judaism, bodyism, whatever it is, that's that's ours.
Speaker 4: But like for especially for black people, my biggest thing was,
Speaker 4: first of all, I didn't grow up religious. My dad
Speaker 4: was like a white man made up Jesus. He made
Speaker 4: him white, and all the black people believed it. That
Speaker 4: was what I That's what I got as a child,
Speaker 4: to the point where I was when I did think
Speaker 4: I wanted to be.
Speaker 5: Christian, he was like, I don't feel comfortable with this.
Speaker 2: I was like, Jesus said, I'm in the youth group
Speaker 2: and I'm in church camp, and he was pissed.
Speaker 4: But what I never understood was like, how can black
Speaker 4: people so blindly accept this white Jesus and this book
Speaker 4: that was literally used to manipulate us to believe that
Speaker 4: we should be working for free and stolen and abused
Speaker 4: and raped. You can't give me this book and make
Speaker 4: me feel cool with it. As much as a lot
Speaker 4: of those stories obviously are rooted in some other shit,
Speaker 4: and they've been whitewashed extremely, most of those those stories
Speaker 4: took place in Africa. Let's be clear. Hair of Woule
Speaker 4: ain't no white person, you know. I just one time
Speaker 4: I got high on Easter and I went to church
Speaker 4: and all there's all these beautiful black people braids and locks,
Speaker 4: wearing all white and singing and praising.
Speaker 2: And I was just so high.
Speaker 5: I was like, this seems like brainwashery.
Speaker 4: It's usually like a white Jesus somewhere in the in
Speaker 4: the in the ability, and everybody's crying and dancing, and
Speaker 4: I'm all about. I'm all about like your energy being
Speaker 4: channeled wherever you want. I feel like that's very powerful.
Speaker 4: It's just like manifesting. However, it creaked me the fuck out.
Speaker 4: I was like, get me out of here right now.
Speaker 4: And it was because I just felt like it was
Speaker 4: just this deep brainwashery of America, you know, like just
Speaker 4: like American ministries want to go to Africa and these
Speaker 4: rural places.
Speaker 3: And what do they call it when they go missions mission.
Speaker 4: Mission everybody and recruit them like nahn, leave them alone with.
Speaker 2: Their son God and whatever that works for them.
Speaker 4: Like if you believe in whatever you believe in, cool,
Speaker 4: but you don't have to press it on everybody else. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's my feelings on black men, the church, in the
Speaker 4: black communit.
Speaker 3: We've covered so much.
Speaker 1: Well I'm gonna I'm gonna wrap it up, and because
Speaker 1: I know you have to go, but I just wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you one question that I think you know
Speaker 1: people listening. I know there's a lot of moms and women,
Speaker 1: but I think generally a lot of our listeners are
Speaker 1: moms that you know, want to start businesses and they
Speaker 1: want to be entrepreneurs, and they don't know where to
Speaker 1: start or how to start, or how to feel supported
Speaker 1: or where to get help.
Speaker 2: Like what advice would you give to women.
Speaker 1: Moms who want to start businesses but don't really know
Speaker 1: how to start, like as far as like how to
Speaker 1: find the balance between the two?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jesus, I would say follow me because that's what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: Time management is on there.
Speaker 3: Time management is on there, but there are a variety
Speaker 3: of different resources. You know, mompreneur me. We have free
Speaker 3: content that will help you with that. It's a network
Speaker 3: of other women who are just like you, who are
Speaker 3: thinking about starting their own business or have their own
Speaker 3: side hustle. My good friend out there with you guys
Speaker 3: in La Nef for Terry Pleasy of Single Moms Planet
Speaker 3: does a great job of creating resources for mothers who
Speaker 3: want to start their own business. Another fabulous Black mom.
Speaker 3: And then I would say, just make sure you pick
Speaker 3: something that you would do even if you weren't paid
Speaker 3: for it, because then you'll really be dedicated to it
Speaker 3: and very passionate about it. And I constantly get asked
Speaker 3: that question. I constantly hear from women that they want
Speaker 3: to start businesses but don't know where to start it,
Speaker 3: or don't feel like the market is saturated, then don't
Speaker 3: have a place. And I always say, think about the
Speaker 3: first thing that you've done as an entrepreneur, which has
Speaker 3: become a mother, and how you've learned leadership skills from that,
Speaker 3: and how you've learned to delegate, and how you've learned
Speaker 3: time management from that, And don't tell me that you
Speaker 3: can't be an entrepreneur, because it's been statistically proven that matrescence,
Speaker 3: which is the psychological part of you, the part of
Speaker 3: your life that turns you into a mother. The brain
Speaker 3: actual development of it just designed to make you a
Speaker 3: better leader in the workplace. All the things that you
Speaker 3: learn and all the things that you happen when you
Speaker 3: become a mother. So there's no reason why it's actually
Speaker 3: the best time for you to become an entrepreneur or
Speaker 3: to pursue a passion project is after you become a mom.
Speaker 2: You know what, I feel like you should be able
Speaker 2: to put mother on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1: Like I think that there's a lot of time job,
Speaker 1: full time job. There's a lot of skills that are involved.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of education like fast track education, low
Speaker 1: key and I'm like, yo, put thath.
Speaker 3: The but you know, specialist. But there are some really
Speaker 3: great companies that I know a couple off the top
Speaker 3: of my head that are basically like firms that put
Speaker 3: mothers in jobs where people need those kinds of skills
Speaker 3: and not skills like babysitting. I'm talking about the core
Speaker 3: leadership and professional development skills that you get. And those
Speaker 3: companies specialized in finding and recruiting moms.
Speaker 2: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, you guys definitely check out Christine and all of
Speaker 1: her Her page is full of resources. She has amazing
Speaker 1: articles on her book, her books to our listeners.
Speaker 2: Where they can find you exactly.
Speaker 3: What find you So Christine Michelle Carter dot com has
Speaker 3: most of my articles, links to mom Prenore and me,
Speaker 3: my social media sites, everything videos Christine Michelle Carter dot com.
Speaker 2: Dope, Dope, dope, Well, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4: Thank you you you We're twins soul.
Speaker 1: Right, Jamila cried, So now you can never get rid
Speaker 1: of her, like hello.
Speaker 3: Yes, you must, you must, you must.
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm going to pull you out when we come.
Speaker 2: We're gonna, we're gonna go out.
Speaker 4: Have you been a stadium, Well that used to be.
Speaker 3: But wait now I'm feeling old. Now I'm feeling old
Speaker 3: because I'm like, I think you're talking about No, you're
Speaker 3: not talking about dream well love, You're talking about stating,
Speaker 3: which is a cross like diagonal when you get off
Speaker 3: of fifty. Yes, I have long way of saying yes,
Speaker 3: I have a.
Speaker 2: Wonderful two dollars Tuesday. I don't know if that's still
Speaker 2: going because.
Speaker 4: Of covid O.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe by the time I get there because just long.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I love a good strip club. Me too,
Speaker 3: me too.
Speaker 2: They always have good food too, so we all know
Speaker 2: that's important.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, girl, I appreciate you all right
Speaker 3: for having me on guys, and you guys.
Speaker 1: Know where to find us at Good Mom's Underscore Bad
Speaker 1: Choices on Insta, on Instagram.
Speaker 4: Or sorry, Good Momsbad Choices dot com. Sign up for
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Speaker 2: Please subscribe, Please review and rate us. It matters.
Speaker 5: That's it.
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Speaker 2: Good Moms, Bad Choices, have a wonderful week and we'll
Speaker 2: cap next time.
Speaker 7: Bye bye bye.
Speaker 3: And of course