WEBVTT - From the Vault: Bandersnatch 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:08.239 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My name 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.559 is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it is 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.400 not Saturday, but today we're bringing you an episode from 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.400 the vault. We just had a little bit of time 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.960 off for the holidays and uh, and to get us 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.479 through that time where we're playing some older episodes. But 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.239 this was a really good one and I'm glad we're 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:25.520 revisiting it or I don't know if I should say myself. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.120 It was really good. I remember it being a lot 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.560 of fun. Uh. This was from January nine, and it's 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.199 the one we did about band or Snatch. Yeah, this 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.239 was a lot of fun to do. Uh. This of 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.479 course concerns the Black Mirror Choose your Own Adventure style 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.880 episode that you can find on Netflix titled band or Snatch. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.680 And yeah, it's a discussion of a free will and 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.240 how we make choices, and then also some some very 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.600 episode specific stuff about this, you know, about our experiences 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.639 with band or Snatch, and also I believe we got 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.640 into information collection of bit as well. Oh yeah, but 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.280 I remember one thing about I assumed one reason you 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.920 wanted to replay this one is that Bandersnatch came up 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.039 in our recent episode about how our choices later inform 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.319 what our preferences become. Yes, that was one reason. The 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.520 other reason was that I put most everything else that 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.440 we recorded uh in the last year into the schedule 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.280 for Vault episodes, and I needed something that wasn't there, 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.240 and Bandersnatch had not been assigned yet. Bam, Well we 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.680 hope you enjoy. Oh and just so you know, we 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.600 will be back with more brand new core episodes of 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:35.720 stuff to blow your mind on Tuesday and Thursday of 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.560 next week. So never fear more core stuff to blow 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:47.200 your mind on the way. And the banker, inspired with 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.080 a courage so new it was a matter for general remark, 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.760 rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view in 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.880 his zeal to discover the snark. But while he was 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:01.280 seeking with thymbals and care, a banders match swiftly drew 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.720 nigh and grabbed at the banker, who shrieked in despair, 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.040 for he knew it was useless to fly. He offered 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.760 large discount. He offered a check drawn to bearer for 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.800 seven pounds ten, but the Bandersnatch merely extended its neck 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.640 and grabbed at the banker again without rest or pause, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:25.000 while those frumious jaws went savagely snapping around. He skipped, 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.919 and he hopped, and he floundered and flopped till fainting 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.560 he fell to the ground. The Bandersnatch fled as the 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.440 others appeared, led on by that fear stricken yell, and 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.560 the bellman remarked, it is just as I feared and 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:48.120 solemnly told on his bell Welcome to stuff to blow 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:57.359 your mind. A production of I Heart Radios has to work. Hey, 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.280 you welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:01.880 is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And Robert, are 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.360 you feeling more frabjous or more frumious today? I guess 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.280 more frumiousis would be my answer. That was, of course 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.120 the poem The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carroll, 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.720 But I guess a number of people were probably more 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.919 familiar with the Bandersnatch from another poem by Lewis Carroll, 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.959 that being the jabberwah Jackwaukee. Yes, where the Bandersnatch is 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.760 just alluded to as another monstrous creature that might be 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.120 running around the woods. I love it when a poet 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.680 first name something in a kind of in a in 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.360 a listical kind of way, you know, poem poem as 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.320 a listical uh, and then later it comes through in 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.960 another poem with more force. I think that's sort of 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.920 happened with um with the demo organ, right, Yeah, yeah, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.000 I think so. And in this case, yeah, the bandersnatch. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:50.800 There's not a lot really said about it in the 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.840 writings of Lewis Carroll. Lewis Carroll, by the way, was 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.680 the pen name of Charles Lutwich Dodgson, who lived eighteen 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.600 thirty two through eight, and he first introduced the band 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:03.840 or snatch again just in a list of creatures that 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.120 might pop up in his eighteen seventy two novel Through 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:10.640 the Looking Glass in that poem the jabberwocke uh, and 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.320 then pops up again in this eighteen seventy four poem 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.480 that we just read, the Hunting of the Snark, which 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.160 we didn't read the whole of the poem, that was 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.760 just an excerpt from it. I think where the like, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.760 who's the banker? The banker is one of these people 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.480 who goes on a voyage hunting the snark. I think 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.440 I've read that that poem was has been interpreted by 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.600 some as as metaphorical of you know that it's supposed 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.920 to be an allegory about the search for human happiness 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.400 and contentment. But then also, I think I've heard it 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.479 alleged that the poem actually has no allegorical meaning, that 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.520 it's just it's just kind of silly. Yeah, I mean, 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:46.640 in that sense, it's kind of enigmatic. And the creature 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:51.200 itself is enigmatic, scarcely described, but certainly best avoided at 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.720 all costs. There's no way to outrun it, no way 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.400 to escape its intensity. Uh. And by the way, frumious 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.080 is a combination of fuming and fear. Us Carroll just 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:03.520 grand these two words together to make a nice new 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.800 adjective for strange monster is a perfectly cromulent word. Very 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.640 frabjous um. And I was wondering, do you need a 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.599 vorpal sword if you go up against a bandersnatch or 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.000 is that only for the jabberwock What certainly worked on 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.400 the jabberwockie. I don't know about the band or snatch. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.640 There's there are no tales of slaying it, are there, 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.920 at least not in Lewis Carroll's original work. Does the 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.400 vorpal sword show up as an artifact in D and D? 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.440 It does, it certainly does. Yeah. Um, pretty good sword. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.040 Oh yeah, very good sword. Now. The name Bandersnatch has 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.359 been invoked many times over the years and works of 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.800 fantasy and science fiction. I've seen it pop up as 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.480 a space slug, another such creature. Sometimes it's just kind 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.800 of an enigmatic name for like a government project or something. Uh, 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.800 because it's a great it's a great name. In depictions 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.960 of Lewis Carroll's work, it is often take on a 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:59.320 mammalian character. Nineteen century children's illustrator Peter Newell depicted it 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.560 as kind of a furry, horned beast that might resemble 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.400 a cat or maybe a wolf like creature. Uh. And 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.200 this one. This is a very popular image. And then 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.440 film adaptations have depicted it as both bor like and 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.520 cat like. The two thousand ten Tim Burton adaptation has 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.240 a very memorable creature design for the Bandersnatch. Tim the 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.360 Tim Burton Alice in Wonderland. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, yeah, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.719 I have. I've seen the first one. Um, I never 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:30.400 ventured that far into late Burton. Well it it had 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.200 some things going for it. It had a really good cast, 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.880 and it had some some interesting character designs, I'll say that, 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:41.880 and and a very monstrous looking bandersnatch. Now, just a 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:46.440 couple of other interesting tidbits about Lewis Carroll. Um. He 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.080 was a mathematician. He worked in geometry and new ideas 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:54.599 in algebra, logic, machines, ciphers. So between this and other 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.920 details of of his life, there's a lot of black 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:02.200 mirror to the originator of the bander snatch. Also in Hallucinations, 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.680 the book by Oliver Sacks, the Late Oliver Sax, Sax 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.200 points out that Carol was known to suffer from classical migraines, 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.280 and that Carol W. Lippman and others have suggested that 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:19.840 his migraine experiences, uh may have contributed to the way 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.120 he envisioned through the Looking Glass and Alice in Wonderland, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:27.320 like the skewing of time and space. Um. Also, you 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.520 have auditory hallucinations that are not uncommon in migraines, as 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.480 well as olfactory hallucinations. I've also seen descriptions of of 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:40.520 this lifting feeling, that this feeling of being moved through space. Uh. Yeah, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.200 I guess the the extension of the lightheadedness that comes 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.600 on with the aura and all that. Yeah. Um, you know, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.560 there's actually an asteroid named Bandersnatch. Oh. I didn't know 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.480 this and I looked this up. Bander Snatch. It's a 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.480 Main Belt asteroid, so it's out beyond the orbit of Mars, 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.640 discovered in nineteen by Japanese astronomers Takashi Urata and Yasuhiro 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.840 Shimizu at the Nazi Katsura Observatory and it was named, 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.160 of course after the Fermius Bandersnatch. Awesome. Now, one of 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.800 the this is just sort of the introductory material on 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.240 the Bandersnatch because for the vast majority of this episode 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.920 we're going to be talking about what, as I guess, 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:23.600 the most recent uh cinematic in vocation of the Bandersnatch, 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.760 and that is the Black Mirror episode. It's not even 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.240 an episode, it's a Black Mirror film that came out 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.959 on Netflix December of what was theeen so a little 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.400 over a year ago. Um and uh, and there's a 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.120 lot to unpack here. I actually didn't watch it until 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.160 this week, so I knew you wanted to do an 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.200 episode about it, and I was like, okay, I'll finally 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.000 see what all the fuss is about. I was very impressed. Yeah, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.559 I'll get I'll certainly get more into my my very 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.439 thoughts on it later. I was impressed with it when 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.360 it came out, and then since we were going to 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.000 do the episode, I rewatched it for the first time 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:02.040 since its original release earlier this week, and uh, and 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:03.959 I have to say it, I thought it held up. 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.120 I even got a different ending and a different dead 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.160 end at one point than I had encountered previously. So 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:12.800 it was it was like, why every time you watch 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.120 a film that you like again you find new things, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.000 but in this case you can actually get a different ending. Yeah, 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:22.000 now we're going to be exploring today some of the 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.000 some of the science and the ideas and philosophy that 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.160 are alluded to in band or snatch Um. But in 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.200 doing so, of course, this will involve some spoilers for 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.439 this strange film. So I would say there are a 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.280 couple of places we're not We're not gonna go through 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.240 and explore every possible ending or anything like that. But 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.120 if you are in the case where you haven't seen 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.640 it yet and you don't want anything at all spoiled, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.200 you should probably stop here and go watch it first 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:48.880 before you listen to the rest of the episode. But 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.400 if you've already seen it, or you haven't seen it, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.480 and you don't care about minor spoilers that don't go 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.800 all the way to all the endings, then you know, 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.280 forge ahead with us. Please. However, some of you may 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.560 be asking the question, well, what are you talking about? 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.160 What is Black Mirror? Uh? So we should probably take 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.880 a few minutes to just refresh you on what this is. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.160 It is a is the word refresh? Would that be 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:14.480 the word? We should shock you to the bone? Alright? 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.959 So Black Mirror is in essence a sci fi anthology 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.800 television series. Uh, in the same vein as the Twilight Zone, 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.719 the Outer Limits, uh, these various shows we've discussed in 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:30.120 the past. I might call it pretty often techno horror. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.960 Not every episode is the same, but there's essentially no 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.520 horror movie as scary as the scariest episodes of Black Mirror, 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:44.760 especially the ones that managed to take fairly plausible technological 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.880 scenarios and and follow them to their logical conclusions. I mean, 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.280 it's a it's a show that's very good at conjuring 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.120 up the worst possible nightmares of like the intersection of 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:02.080 capitalism and technology. Yeah, definitely, episodes tend to have a 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.240 technological swing to the story, and they tend to deal 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:12.559 on some level with with contemporary anxiety about current technology 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:16.400 and emerging technology. What what what are these technologies doing 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.920 to our lives? What may they do to our lives 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.080 in the future? And you know, sometimes they take varying 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.520 speculative leaps there, of course, since it is science fiction. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.880 But you, I would say, you typically leave an episode 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.120 of Black Mirror, uh, feeling a little worse about the world. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.600 I know that Netflix, their current masters, are very into 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.319 the whole binge model, but I personally find it very 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.920 difficult to binge Black Mirror, in part because each episode, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.280 of course, is a self contained story with its with 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.960 with characters and applaud etcetera. But then also it's like 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.200 they're often like a punch in the gut, and I 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:55.240 just can't just set there and take one punch after 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.360 the other. Apart from one very sweet, very nice episode, 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.319 there's essentially nothing that makes me feel as bad as 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.959 Black Mirror. Well, you know, I was thinking, I was 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.120 thinking about this because there are definitely some very bleak 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.600 episode there episodes of Black Mirror that I admire that 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.600 I will never watch again. But but then I look 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.840 back at my some of my favorite episodes. My favorite 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.600 episodes are probably San Junipero, The U S. S. Calister, 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.360 and metal Head. Two of those. One of those is 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.800 still pretty bleak, but two of two of those are 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.520 actually pretty upbeat, probably the most upbeat episodes of the show. 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.920 Um and uh. And maybe that's the reason I would 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.080 come back to them, because if I'm gonna double dip, 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.840 I want to double dip for optimism sake. Now, in 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:40.760 terms that, we can't talk about Black Mirror without talking 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:46.640 about the creator behind it, the main creative individual behind it, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.120 and that is Charlie Brooker, a British writer and humorist 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.320 whom the earliest thing that he worked on it I 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.679 was familiar with was that he worked on Chris Morris's 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.679 excellent news satire Brass Eye. Um. And then he also 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.720 create did a pretty great zombie movie titled Dead Set 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.320 in two thousand eight, in which the zombie apocalypse breaks 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:11.439 out uh in and around a Big Brother style reality 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.880 TV production. Feel like two thousand eight was sort of 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.200 like maybe two thousand seven. Two thousand eight was like 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.400 peak zombie satire movie. Yeah. And the thing about this one, though, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.120 the premise sounds like a comedy, and so I acquired 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.400 a copy of it, thinking, oh, this is a comedy 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.319 and this is a guy that worked on brass Ie. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.719 This is gonna be hilarious. And it is not a 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.760 straight up comedy. It is a pretty terrifying film. But 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.720 you see shades of that in Black Mirror. Sometimes there 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:43.320 is a premise that could sound like a joke, but 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.840 then it is taken and considered with such intensity that 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.720 it works. Yeah, what if like a major tech company 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.120 used eye tracking software to make sure you were always 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.720 watching their ads, and if you didn't watch them, they 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.160 would ring sirens in your brain and deduct money them 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.800 your bank account until you started watching the ads. Again, 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.520 sounds like a joke, but like if you just said 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.000 take that seriously for a bit, uh and explore it, 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.320 that becomes like a nightmare of of of techno sci fi. 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.360 Absolutely now. Black Mirror began in two seasons and a 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.120 holiday special came out and ran on Channel four in 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.280 the UK. Then Netflix started carrying it and Netflix became 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.600 the owner of the main publisher of the program. However, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.520 you want to look at it starting with season three 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.520 in October. All in all, it is thus far gone 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.680 five seasons, twenty one episodes, and that's not counting the 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.640 film Bandersnatch, which again came out in December. Of these 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.840 bits of publisher information will actually become relevant later on 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.880 as we discussed the story, because the the ideas there, 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.040 because at the end we definitely get into some citiz 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.840 scenarios where we have to consider the fact that Netflix 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.960 is the the business daddy behind the Black Mirror, so 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.160 Bandersnatch the film. The Black Mirror film is actually directed 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.160 by David Slade, who I was like, where do I 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.560 know that name from. He's done several things, but one 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.160 of them was he did one of the Twilight movies. Yes, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.120 and I've seen that, that particular one. It was the 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.280 second one, I think, and it's that's a I'm not 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.320 a huge Twilight fan, but that is a very watchable 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.520 Twilight movie and it has a great soundtrack. It's got 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.880 Tom York on it. Oh yeah. He also directed the 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.760 Black Mirror episode metal Head that I alluded to earlier, 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.560 and there are some callbacks to metal Head in the 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.080 band or Snatch episode. Now, I guess one thing we 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.840 haven't gotten fully into so far is the fact that 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.480 the Black Mirror movie Bandersnatch is it's an interactive movie, 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.080 which makes it very unique. Right, This was the big 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.840 selling point on it and and and indeed is one 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.320 of the I mean, it's it's a key part of 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.240 the way you consume it, but it is also very 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.600 important thematically, like you know, true to form. The creators 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:56.160 here really thought long and hard about how to utilize 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:01.480 um an interactive system, uh within the work and make 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.720 the work comment on that system as well. The interactive 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.280 system being Netflix, like the fact that the user can 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.880 make inputs on the movie. Yeah, basically that's what it 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.880 will amounts to. Is you you start off watching it, it 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:17.760 it seems like a normal Netflix presentation, but then you're 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:22.200 in my case, my Xbox one controller would suddenly vibrate 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.440 and then this little the screen at the bottom of 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.400 the screen. You're suddenly presented with two choices and a 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.760 timer and you have to choose, Uh, you know what 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:33.760 is going to happen with the character is going to do, 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.520 et cetera. Now, this is you know, when you just 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.360 watching checking out the film, you you might not realize 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.200 how much work goes into this, but it took apparently 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.960 a huge amount of work to shoot all these various 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.080 branching paths, because it becomes a you know this this, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.800 this tree, this branching system of possibilities when you start 0:16:55.240 --> 0:17:00.320 presenting the user with these interactive choices. For instance, the 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.600 the previously the longest episode of Black Mirror was an 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.120 episode called Hated in the Nation, which was eighty nine 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.600 minutes long. That's that's future length, right, what ninety minutes 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.000 is usually the length you shoot for with the sure film. Well, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.800 when you're watching the Band or Snatch, depending on your choices, 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.680 the film can run anywhere between ninety minutes and two 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.439 and a half hours. And in order to make this work, 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.200 as pointed out by a Jackie Strausse in the Hollywood Reporter, uh, 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.639 this means they had to shoot like five hours of 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.480 footage so that they could actually cover all of these 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.000 various choices. And you may watch it like, for instance, 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.359 the first time I watched it, there were plenty of 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.960 scenes I did not see, And then when I watched 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:45.960 it again, there were films there were scenes that I 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:47.879 saw the first time that I did not see, and 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.560 I got an entirely different ending that I never didn't 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.119 even know about. And then there, of course various Easter 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.679 eggs and even I've read quote golden Easter eggs that 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.720 are spread throughout things that most viewers will not find. 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:03.000 Must they spend a great deal of time going through 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.439 and going back through and backing up, etcetera, with this 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.040 interactive piece encouraging unhealthy obsessive behavior exactly, I mean it 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.199 is it is black mirror. Now, as far as the 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.120 choices as you make in the in band or snatch um, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.080 you start off making very small choices. It seemed very consequential. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.840 For instance, uh, choosing the main characters breakfast cereal he's 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.160 presented his father shows two boxes and you decide which 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:31.960 one he's going to have for breakfast. Yeah. I think 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.680 it was what like frosted flakes or sugar puffs or something. 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.119 I remember what I realized after I made that choice 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.879 was I was like, oh, no, I think I chose 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.200 the brand that I was more familiar with. Ah, well, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.320 we'll come back to that later. That that is an 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.919 important point that will come back to later on in 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.920 the episode. But but at first, it's it's what kind 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:52.880 of serial does he want all right, it doesn't doesn't 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.720 seem to matter much, and and it also gives you 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.639 a chance to try out the technology low stakes. But uh. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.560 And then also later on you choose what music is 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.399 going to listen to in uh, when he's on the bus, 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:05.960 which is kind of fun. I think you get to 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.640 choose between a rhythmic song and something else. I can't 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.320 remember the other one. I think it's Thompson Twins, that's it. Yeah, 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.320 And and uh, and then later on he's in a 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.440 record store and you get to choose which record he's 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:20.479 gonna buy. And this is also pretty great because one 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:25.240 of the choices is Tangerine Dreams excellent nine four album Phaedra, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.399 which is incredible. Absolutely. In fact, I was listening to 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.680 that again this morning while I was doing some prep 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.679 for this episode. Yeah, it's it's excellent stuff. However, this 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.360 time around, I forced myself to choose the other album instead, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.600 the other album being a Sao Tamita's The Bermuda Triangle, 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.840 which very strange, Yeah, very strange work, but very very good. 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.359 I was really not that familiar with with with this 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.600 artist or this work, which is apparently kind of hard 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.879 to come by on streaming unless you just find like 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.920 a YouTube full album rip. But but yeah, this is 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.680 just a taste of the soundtrack. The Bandersnach is a 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.800 wonderfu soundtrack, including not only these artists but also Depeche Mode, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.760 Laurie Anderson. Great stuff. But let's come back to the 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.800 choices you make in this interactive system. So again, they 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.840 start off seeming largely inconsequential. They start off seeming a 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.520 little bit fun, you know, it's just surface level stuff 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.960 like what what's his breakfast cereal? What's his musical choice? 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.160 But then they become increasingly high stakes and even nerve 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.320 racking to decide on, Like suddenly you're when you're controller 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.560 vibrates and you're presented with this choice, and sometimes you 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.800 feel this dread because sometimes the choice is neither one 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.800 is all that great. Sometimes the choices are kind of horrible. 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.399 And there's at least one point where you have no choice. 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.680 There's there's something to select, but there's no alternative selection, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.240 and that feels maddening as well. And and you have 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:49.720 a time or you have like what I think it's 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.560 ten seconds to choose something, and if you don't choose, 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:57.480 Netflix chooses for you. But Netflix reports of viewers actively 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:01.040 made choices uh when they watch band or Snatch. Now, 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.840 in my experience, it wasn't that they chose for you 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.360 at random. It was that whichever one of the two 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:08.760 options was highlighted, and it was like a you know, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.040 on off toggle, like you couldn't select neither one. You 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.240 were just selecting one or the other, and then you 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.560 could and you could go with it, or you could 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.040 not go with it, and whichever one you had highlighted 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:23.400 would just proceed. So there's this kind of um uh, 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:27.040 there's this horrible sense of like helplessness that that imposes 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.399 on you as the viewer. I have not seen it. 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.560 Sometimes I'll go into a restaurant or a bar and 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.960 they'll have Netflix on playing some show. I've never seen 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.560 them showing Bandersnatch, probably for this reason, letting all the 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.119 bar patrends vote to the side, well yeah, or just 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.840 going crazy like why is nobody clicking the button? Why 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.159 is nobody interacting with this? Don't let don't let that 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.840 choice go through. So eventually, as you as you interact 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.720 with Bandersnatch, a warping of time occurs as you find 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.080 yourself coming back around to pass choices like a wanderer 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.359 lost in a maze, and of course, befitting of a maze, 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.399 there is a sort of minotaur in all of this. 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:07.159 There is the Bandersnatch. Wait is it the Bandersnatch or 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.919