1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. Today we returned to the five 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: oh four sit ins to talk about some of the 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: specific people involved in it, which we haven't done before. Yeah, 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: and also talk more about the Rehabilitation Act of nineteen 7 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: seventy three, because the vast majority of what people talk 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: about with that today is that language at the end. Yeah, 9 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: that's you know about section five oh four. There's not 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about the tone of the overall 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Rehabilitation Act of nineteen seventy three. It to me, there's 12 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: a very nineteen seventies piece of legislation. Right, It's a 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: lot of vibes in that legislation. Yeah, Like there's I 14 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: mean there's not, like we said, there's stuff in it 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: that was good. It is good to have funding for 16 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: things like interpreters for deaf people and requirements for government 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: agencies to have interpreters who can talk to people who 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: need an interpreter. Right, All of all that part is good. Yeah, 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: But there's the the whole underpinning is basically that the 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: goal is to quote rehabilitate people and the right the 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: goal is to have a vocational outcome, meaning a job, 22 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: and like that is not it's the law acknowledges that 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: that's not necessarily going to work for everyone. Some people 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: cannot work for whatever reason, that there's not an accessibility 25 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: plan that will make work accessible to some people. But 26 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: the like, the vibe of the law is definitely that, like, 27 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: the goal is a vocational plan for as many people 28 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: as possible. I watched the movie Crip Camp Yeah over 29 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: the weekend because I had, like, it has crossed my 30 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: radar many times and I just had not had the 31 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: opportunity to watch it, and so since it was relevant 32 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: to this episode, I didn't realize how relevant it was 33 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: to the episode because I didn't realize how much the 34 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: movie was going to talk about beyond the years of 35 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: the people at the camp. Right. It's a really good movie, 36 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: it's a really good documentary. I noticed after I have 37 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: watched it that its MPAA rating is an R and 38 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: I found that frustrating. It is not an R rated 39 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: movie to me. Do you know why you didn say 40 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: like for the following reason that says something like some 41 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: strong language and sexual situations, and I I will freely 42 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: admit I am not a mo I'm not a person 43 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: that assigns film ratings. That is not my job. I 44 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: do not have all of the standards in front of 45 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: me of what goes into those ratings. But there have 46 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: been various past documentaries that have looked at biases in 47 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: those ratings and how the same sexual situation will receive 48 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: a stronger rating depending on who it's involved, like who 49 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: is Like, if there's a sex scene that involves a 50 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: white man and a white woman, that might be like 51 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: a PG thirteen rating, and functionally the same scene involving 52 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: two black men might that might be, Oh, we gotta 53 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: rate this are And so my gut response to this 54 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: rating is that it was probably rated this way because 55 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: there are a couple of different conversations about sexually transmitted diseases, 56 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: and I think the idea of disabled people being sexually 57 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: whole fulfilled people made reviewers uncomfortable, yeah, and led to 58 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: it being what I felt like was a harsher rating 59 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: or a stronger rating than after watching the movie I 60 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: really felt like it needed. Yeah. There's also the like 61 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, ratings have long been problematic in a variety 62 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: of ways. Because even even in addition to the things 63 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: that you just mentioned, like different people being involved in 64 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: that leading to different rating, it also depends on what 65 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: reviewers looked at it. Yeah, sure, and their own biases 66 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: and their own things they may or may not be 67 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: squinky about. I mean, theoretically they have training in their 68 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: objective enough in their job, but like, no one can 69 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: remove all of their bias in any any way, you 70 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: know what I mean, none of us can. They all 71 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: have hear it biases, and so that also leads to 72 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: another layer of like, yeah, this isn't always fair and 73 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Yeah. I just 74 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: felt like, ultimately that was not an R rated movie 75 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: to me. I mean, if you were gonna watch it 76 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: with your kids and you maybe want to have a 77 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: conversation with your kids about topics like genital lice and 78 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: kind of rhea. I'm laughing because the conversations around it 79 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: in the movie, some of them are hilarious, Like there 80 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: is just this candor about the fact that, like there 81 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: was a crabs outbreak at the camp and some of 82 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: the discussion of it is funny, and that's I was laughing. 83 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: But anyway, I see, I found myself laughing for the 84 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: selfish reason of I never have to have these conversations 85 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: with my cats. Like there's a reason I'm not a parent, 86 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: and it's because I'm not equipped to be a parent. Yeah, 87 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: I would not be a good one. And one of 88 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: one of the reasons is that I wouldn't be good 89 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: at conversations like that. Yeah. Something else that struck me 90 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: about the movie, which you know, this camp existed in 91 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: The Catskills from I think I said nineteen fifty one 92 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy seven, something like that, and there's a 93 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: lot of footage from the camp when it was in operation, 94 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: recorded by different people. Some were filmmakers who went to 95 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: the camp to record things, some were campers or staffers 96 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: themselves who recorded things. So there's a lot of like 97 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: very nineteen seventies footage from this camp. And one of 98 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: the things that struck me is that, like this was 99 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: a camp for disabled teenagers and a lot of the 100 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: people on staff. Some people on staff were not disabled, 101 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: but some people on staff were. And still a lot 102 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: of the things in the camp, like the things they 103 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: were having to do to make things accessible. It's like 104 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: there was not a lift to lift for people to 105 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: go swimming. Oh yea yeah, yeah, like to get into 106 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: I don't remember if it was a lake or a 107 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: swimming pool, but whichever it was, to get into it, 108 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: people were physically lifting you into it. Right, People were 109 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: physically be carried onto and off of buses because the 110 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: buses did not have a lift or a wheelchair ramp 111 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: or anything like that. Yeah. And so this is, you know, 112 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: a time of history that you know, I would be 113 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm not quite old enough to remember the late nineteen 114 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: seventies because I would have been two and three years old. 115 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: But when I got into my slightly older elementary years 116 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: and then into my more adult years, seeing how many 117 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: of those types of accessibility things have become more common, 118 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: and then how many things there still are that are 119 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: just thrown together. Yeah, Like, in some ways we've come 120 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: a long way and in some ways really not. Yeah. 121 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: I think too. We have the benefit because we get 122 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: to travel for work to foreign countries on occasion. Two 123 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: we also see like globally how things haven't have not 124 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: been handled sure, which like is very eye opening. It's 125 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: something that I will confess I probably didn't think about 126 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: enough until my husband, for a while worked for a 127 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: company that provided and also enabled vehicles to be accessible. 128 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: So like some of them where we will just sell 129 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: you an accessible vehicle. But in other cases people would 130 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: be like, I have a car. I love my car, 131 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: but now I cannot drive my car anymore because I 132 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: have had like an accident or whatever and I or 133 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: I've had a progressive illness and I can no longer 134 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: drive it. And they would basically like convert that vehicle, right, 135 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: And so now everywhere we go, Brian is always like, 136 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: that's not that's not compliant, that's not complab but he 137 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: points it out because he's hyper aware. And now I 138 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: have become much more aware about it. Something I see 139 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: often that my hate is people who park their cars 140 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: in the striped off area that is for a wheelchair lift. 141 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: Red rage, absolutely hate it. It makes me so angry. 142 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: I also notice occasionally I'll be staying at a at 143 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: a hotel and for whatever reason, they will have put 144 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: me in a room that is meant to be accessible, 145 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: and sometimes like it will just jump out at me, 146 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: how like, yeah, there's a grab bar in the bathroom, 147 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: but it's not in a place that would allow a 148 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: person to transfer from a wheelchair to the toilet, it's 149 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: in a weird place that like, that's not helping anyone. 150 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: Or I remember being in a room that was supposedly 151 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: accessible one time, and there was no way that a 152 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: person who was using a wheelchair would have been able 153 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: to get to the closet where their clothes would go. 154 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: And it was like there was no there was not 155 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: a wide enough passage around the bed. And it's like 156 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: there's so much of that stuff. So like there are 157 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: places where like regulations have not been put into place correctly, 158 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: like places where it's like we installed a grab bar 159 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: and the grab bar is not in a good place. Yeah, 160 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: it's like they're they're going through a checklist to retrofit 161 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: a space that was never designed. Yeah, with that in mind, 162 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: and it doesn't technically they meet the requirements, but it 163 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: doesn't really help anybody. And then you have folks like 164 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: my mom whose needs are greater than what the requirement is. Right, So, 165 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: like traveling any distance away from home is really hard 166 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: for my mom because she doesn't just need an accessible bathroom. 167 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: The accessible bathroom needs to have enough room for a 168 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: lift to fit into it to transfer her from a 169 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: chair to the toilet. Yeah, and even when she had 170 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: more mobility and she was using a walker rather than 171 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: using a power wheelchair. She was traveling with my dad 172 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: one time and they stopped at a rest area and 173 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: she went into the accessible stall and there was no 174 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: way for her to get into the stall and get 175 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: onto the toilet, and also closed the door behind her. Yeah, 176 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: which was number one embarrassing. Yeah, And then number two, 177 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: a stranger came in and decided that my mom needed 178 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: help and would not take my mom's assurances that mom 179 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: needed help. And this person who met well, just it 180 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: was worse than if my mom had just been allowed 181 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: to handle her own hygiene. I will say I have 182 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: a cool version of this, okay of a retrofit that 183 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: I saw, Yeah, at a resort where they had expanded 184 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: the resort, and at that point they had enough surplus 185 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: rooms that they could retrofit one whole portion of it. 186 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: And what they did was to accommodate people like your mom. 187 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: They combined two hotel rooms into one, so the bathroom 188 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: was enormous and had tons of space. Yeah, and that 189 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: way like, and the doors were wide and there was 190 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: like ample room to maneuver around whatever kind of vehicle 191 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: or assist lift you had, and I was just like, 192 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: I know, this isn't feasible for every hoteler resort, Yeah, 193 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: but this is incredible, and I wish I hope they 194 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: teach other places how to do this, because yeah, it 195 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is all actual functioning things that 196 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: I read. I wish I could remember where this was, 197 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: but I read an article somewhere that was about just 198 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: really reimagining public restrooms. Yeah, because there are a lot 199 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: of people who need a restroom for a lot of 200 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: different reasons. Like there are parents who need to change 201 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: a diaper, and there are people who use wheelchairs or 202 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: walkers and like need enough space and the ability to 203 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: get onto you and off like all of this stuff. 204 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: You know, maybe you have a job interview and you 205 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: need to use the bathroom to change your clothes. Maybe 206 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: you have a religious requirement to do some kind of 207 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: like washing of your hands and face over like a 208 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: lot of different reasons that people need to be in 209 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: the bathroom. And it was envisioning this public bathroom space 210 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: that would be able to meet all of these needs 211 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: for all of these different people. And of course it 212 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: was like a spacious space that had privacy and had 213 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: room for all of these different purposes, and I was like, 214 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: that bathroom seems so amazing to me and so unlikely 215 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: to ever be implemented at scale because everybody wants to 216 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: save money and have less room dedicated to those kinds 217 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: of things. Yeah, I mean another area that gets problematic 218 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: is not even in a public space, but like there 219 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: are huge tracts of neighborhood developments that were built during 220 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: a period of time in the US when in real 221 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: estate you kept the bathrooms as small as you could 222 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: to maximize the living areas of the home, and those 223 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: are really really hard to retrofit because like there just 224 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: is not a place to expand out a wall unless 225 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: you lose two thirds of your kitchen or you know 226 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: what I mean, or give up a bedroom. And like 227 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: I think, and I hope, I mean, part of this 228 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: is just like the mansion of it all right that 229 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: now even you know, relatively middle of the roadhouses have 230 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: almost palatial bathrooms in many cases. But like when I 231 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: think about some of the ones, like the neighborhood where 232 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: my husband grew up, the tiniest bathrooms on earth, and 233 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: I remember thinking when I first saw them, like, how 234 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: would anybody get in here? If they had any kind 235 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: of like even if they were on crutches temporarily, how 236 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: would they make you know what I mean? Like, there's 237 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: so many instances of spaces that are built like that 238 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: that are private places and not even public spaces that 239 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: need to be considered. Yeah, And I have had a 240 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: conversation sort of the conversation in that I have said, 241 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: we need to think about where we are going to 242 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: live when we get old, right, because there will be 243 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: a time in our lives when we will not be 244 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: able to manage these stairs, right. And Patrick is like, 245 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: we will have one of those chairlifts put in, and 246 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm just like, Babe, I don't think one of those 247 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: chairlifts is actually going to work in this stairwell that 248 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: was built almost one hundred years ago. It seems unlikely 249 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: to me. And you know, that's one of the things 250 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: about buying a house that's more than one hundred years old. Yeah. 251 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: I do have a friend who I met in the 252 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: weirdest circumstance, quite accidentally in New York. But she is 253 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: in her seventies. She lives in England in an old house, 254 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: and last year she's perfectly like she's spry as can be, 255 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: she can get around anywhere right now, sure, but she 256 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: recognizes that's not always going to be the case, and 257 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: it's sooner rather than later, and she doesn't want her 258 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: kids to have to deal with figuring it out. So 259 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: like she put in her own elevator last year and yeah, 260 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: in the future when I needed, I have it, and 261 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: right now I can just enjoy it. I'm like, yeah, 262 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: right on. Yeah, A very long time ago, I had 263 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: some friends who had a house built for their family 264 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: to live in, and they had that house built with 265 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: the mindset of we're probably going to live here for 266 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: our whole lives and at some point probably a parent 267 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: will come live with us, and so they built a 268 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: house to have enough space to do that, and also 269 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: to have an elevator that went from the first floor 270 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: to the second floor of their home. Yeah, which, of 271 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: course you know, was incredibly smart, but also something that 272 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: came with a lot of privilege to be able to 273 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: afford a house that size with an elevator in it, Right, 274 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: That is the other thing, like, not everyone is in 275 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: a position where they can make those adjustments. Yeah, And 276 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: we haven't really talked at all how incredibly expensive being 277 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: disabled us so so expensive like prohibitively expensive. Yeah yeah, yeah, 278 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: like my mom's wheelchair costs more than the last car 279 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: that I bought. Yeah, we also didn't I hope that 280 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: this was obvious from the episode itself. We didn't call 281 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: it out specifically, but I just also wanted to say that, like, 282 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: disability rights and LGBTQ rights have gone hand in hand 283 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: the whole time. Yeah, and so the fact that we're 284 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: at this point now in US history where there are 285 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: attacks on DEI and those attacks are targeting trans people 286 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: and gay men and lesbians, other queer people, also disabled people, 287 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: like that is not new. That is stuff that has 288 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: been going on this whole time. Yeah. The other thing 289 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: that always makes me irate though, is that any I 290 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: almost hate calling them accommodations because it makes it sound like, oh, 291 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: we have to go out of our way to do 292 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: anything that is put in place to make places accessible 293 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: and fair and equal benefits everybody. It helps everybody. Yes, 294 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: It's not like whenever people make the argument in any 295 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: of these things that like, oh, why should everybody else 296 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: have to go, and I'm like, because you're also benefiting, fool, 297 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: Like I don't this is so easy? Yeah. Yeah, even 298 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 1: like in ways that are just benign and like thoughtless. Right, 299 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: if you are in a city that has really good 300 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: curb cuts everywhere, things like deliveries get easier, things like 301 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: just walking around for people that do not have any 302 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: any issue, walking gets easier, like so many things improved. 303 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: Parents with their strollers, life is easier. It's so silly 304 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: that anybody would think that that was so now, yeah, 305 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: infringing on their yeah, day to day life. It's like 306 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: it's only making your life easier too. Yeah. Well, and 307 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: there are still like there's so much stuff with the 308 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: ADA that still isn't fully implemented, with a lot of 309 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: that full implementation still boiling down to well, it's too 310 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: expensive to put ramps everywhere. And it's like, y'all thought 311 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: it was a reasonable expense to build stairs for non 312 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: disabled people when you first built the building, So right, 313 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: there was money for that. We come, there's not money 314 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: for this. I have the same argument sometimes about things 315 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: involving parking and bike lanes. There's money for a parking lot, 316 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: there should be money for a bike lane. Yeah, but 317 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: that's just me. And if I see you parking in 318 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: a handicap stripe zone, fury, I'm I'm probably going to 319 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: say something really unkind to you because you will have 320 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: deserved it. Yeah, I don't remember. This was when I 321 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: was still living in Atlanta. I was out with a 322 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: friend and we went we were growing to some store 323 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: somewhere and there were two striped off spaces that were 324 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: the wheelchair lift spaces, and both of them had a 325 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: car parked in them, and they were just at like 326 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: a cell phone store or something like. They like it 327 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: was one of those parking lasts that kind of served 328 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of buildings. And I remember leaving ugly notes 329 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: on both of their windshield because I was like, this 330 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: is unacceptable. If a person is in a van and 331 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: they need to get out of it, they cannot because 332 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: you have chosen to illegally park your car here. Yep, 333 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: just to be closer to the store because there was 334 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: plenty of other spots. Yeah. Anyway, strong feelings interconnected things 335 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: for me to be mad about. I did really really 336 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: love and got quite choked up about it. I got 337 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: choked up about many things in this episode, but I 338 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: had not realized and really really loved the whole aspect 339 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: of how much the Black Panthers got involved. Oh yeah, 340 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: and that they were feeding everybody. I just oh, the heartwarm. Yeah, 341 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: so good. We've talked about the Black Panthers on the 342 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: show before, and I don't actually remember like where we 343 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: talked more about the Black Panthers and starting the breakfast 344 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: program and all of this other stuff, because so many people, 345 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: particularly so many white people of a certain age, have 346 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: been told that the Black Panthers were dangerous and associate 347 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: them only with being armed black men. And number one, 348 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: there's reasons for the armed people needing to protect their 349 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: own neighborhoods, Like there was a reason for that. It 350 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: was not something they made up. And then number two, 351 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: like so much of what they were doing was like 352 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: we're going to start a health clinic and we're going 353 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: to screen everybody in this neighborhood for sickle cell. That's 354 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: going to help make people's lives better. And then when 355 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: it came to the five O four sentence, just part 356 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: of the thing being like you are fighting for liberation 357 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: and we're going to help you with that. Yeah, I 358 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: love it. We talked about Grave Robin this week. We 359 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: did this isn't necessarily a January themed thing, but just 360 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: got interested in it, and that's how it goes, this 361 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: is very interesting to me for a number of reasons. 362 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: So when I was doing Criminalia, we did an entire 363 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: season about grave robbers. Although that was mostly like people 364 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: that stole bodies and right sold them to science in 365 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: many cases, what was very interesting to me was that 366 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: while people were certainly upset in those instances and the 367 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: many stories we told, the reaction in Salt Lake, based 368 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: in significant part to the concerns that the deceased after 369 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: life had been adulterated, was much greater than in some 370 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the other cases where people actually stole bodies. Yeah. 371 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: I have researched, and I just found that fascinating. Yeah. Yeah, 372 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: I had a number of mental questions happening as that. 373 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: I was like, is that there are some religious and 374 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: spiritual traditions that like the idea is the state of 375 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: your body at your death is what it is in 376 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: the afterlife, and so it's really important that like people's 377 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 1: bodies be intact. Yeah. So I had this sort of 378 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 1: mental question of, like, is the issue that if they 379 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: arrive in heaven with no clothes, that they are naked forever? Yes, 380 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: and that like, is it impossible to put on clothes 381 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: in heaven if you didn't have them already. And I 382 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: just thought about that for a while. People have different 383 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: beliefs and that they can be different from one another. 384 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: It's and that was just like a curiosity. But then 385 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: I also was really fixated on like how there were 386 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,120 Speaker 1: boxes and boxes of clothes, because my first thought was, oh, 387 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: obviously he was going to like clean up these clothes 388 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: and sell them in his shop. But when he apparently 389 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: had boxes and boxes of them far more than he 390 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: was selling in the shop, I was like, Okay, what 391 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: what was your deal here, sir? What are theories? Yeah, 392 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: it is one of them, just like an unusual morbid 393 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: fixation on people's clothes. Okay, no, minus from personal experience, 394 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: the those are unfinished objects in his sewing rooms. What 395 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: they thought? Okay that I had. I had another thought 396 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: as well. One I think probably he was getting clothes 397 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: at a faster rate than he was turning them over, 398 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: because like he seemed to recognize he would go back 399 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: and dig them up pretty quickly after their initial burial, right, 400 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: But he also seemed to recognize that, like you have 401 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: to let some time elapse before you refurbish this and 402 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: put it up or sale or use it in some 403 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: way in your tailoring business to lessen the likelihood that 404 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: someone will recognize it. Yeah, So I really think it 405 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: was a he was not good at managing material in 406 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: material out right. Think that was part of it, Okay, Yeah, 407 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: I was sort of mentally divided between poorly thought out 408 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: criminal enterprise and psychological fixation, or maybe some combination of both. 409 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: I think something has to happen in your head where 410 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: you normalize it, and then he probably it didn't seem weird. 411 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: And of course I have eighteen I don't know how 412 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: many there were, the numbers never specified, but of course 413 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: I have eighteen boxes of dead people clothes that I 414 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: took off of them after they were buried in my 415 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: living room. Of course that's what I do. That's just 416 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: what we're doing. Yeah, Like, there's a weird thing. But 417 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: I I I mean, I don't, I don't know. We 418 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: don't have any of his own words other than what 419 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: is relayed secondhand through accounts like Dewey's, and he sure 420 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: about what he said. So it's a little we don't know. 421 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: It's all guesswork. Yeah. The questions that you had about 422 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: concerns about nudity in the afterlife. Oh yeah, some of 423 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: those were also in that Brigham Young sermon that I 424 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: didn't want to quote the whole thing, but he mentioned specifically. 425 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: He brings up an interesting example, which I guess is 426 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: from a real situation, but we don't know of having 427 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: seen a young boy talking to some women who were 428 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: really distraught over this whole thing, and the kid's take 429 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: was like, hey, you know, garments get destroyed in a 430 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: variety of ways, like people that burn in a fire 431 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: if they're devout and their you know, like the angels 432 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: will put their clothes back together for them, it's gonna 433 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: be okay. And like Brigham Young even mentions that you 434 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: know your close degrade in the in the grave, and 435 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: like it's fine. When you get to heaven, you know, 436 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 1: the higher powers will have taken care of that. They 437 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: have tailoring skills, they will they will bring those disparate 438 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: threads and fibers back together and you will be a okay. 439 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: I did find that that whole sermon very reassuring, Like 440 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: in tone, it was just like, oh, that's very very 441 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: He took a really like he was like, I don't 442 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: want to talk about the horrible stuff because it's horrible right, 443 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: and it's hard for any of us to understand that. 444 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: How can I make you guys less scared? Right? And 445 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this is actually pretty interesting. I love 446 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: the ghost part. The ghosts are not asking you for clothes. 447 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: The ghosts don't need pants. They're fun. Yeah. Yeah, I 448 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: just thought that was very, very entertaining. The child logic 449 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: involves there involved there reminds me a little bit of 450 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: when I was a kid growing up in the late 451 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: seventies early eighties, kind of in the era of hijackings 452 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: in yeah, the world of air travel. A thing that 453 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: I was told in Sunday School, and other people I 454 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: know who were in other denominations in other states were 455 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: also told in Sunday School was that if you were 456 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: on the airplane and the airplane got hijacked, the hijackers 457 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: would demand that you spit on the Bible, and if 458 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: you didn't spit on the Bible, they would kill you. 459 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: A great thing to tell impressionable young children. And my 460 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: thought at the age of you know, five or six, 461 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: was like, I mean, if the choices spit or die, 462 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: I like, I bet God would forgive me, right, I 463 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: think God would forgive me for showing up naked at 464 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: the gates of Heaven. Be fine, You're getting a robe. 465 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: It's all good. Yeah. I don't know, none of this 466 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: is in line with any of my current thought about 467 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: what happens when we die, but like, yes, for kids, 468 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: you know, when you're a child, things make sense in 469 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: a certain way. Yeah, we mentioned it a little bit 470 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: in the show, but it sent me in this weird 471 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: spiral where there are not a lot of newspaper mentions 472 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: of this whole thing that are contemporary to it. Okay, 473 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: And at first I thought I was losing my damn mind. 474 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, is my all of my databases broken? Are 475 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,959 Speaker 1: all the archive sites that I use somehow broken? And 476 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: some of it was that I was using his name Jean, 477 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of them had anglicized in mentions. But 478 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: also then I was reading one particular paper and it 479 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: specifically said there's not a lot of newspaper coverage from 480 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: when this was going down, and that was on purpose, 481 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: because everybody was freaking out already. Yeah, And I was like, aha, 482 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: I understand, Like the first thing that I found is 483 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: that Brigham Young sermon. Yeah, Like when I say, the 484 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: first thing I had looked at other things. But that 485 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: was the earliest mention in the papers that I found, 486 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: because there were people just already concerned. It had already 487 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: spread so quickly. And I think, personally, this is my 488 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: speculation that Salt Lake because it was new, because we 489 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: know it was founded as a religious community and as 490 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: a haven for people that felt they were being persecuted. 491 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: I think they were worried if they ran something like 492 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: that in the paper, it would get picked up nationally, 493 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: oh sure, or internationally even, and that word would spread 494 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: that their church had this very ugly problem with one 495 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: of their converts. They had raised up as like evidence 496 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: of how wonderful their religion was and how it could 497 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: offer people things that they couldn't find elsewhere. I think 498 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: it might have been a little bit of image management. 499 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 1: That is strictly my speculation, right, that makes sense, But 500 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: they really don't talk about it till later, And it 501 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: also makes sense, I mean, and this continues to be 502 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: relevant today, like the decisions that are made in news 503 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: reporting of is this story going to help people or 504 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: harm people? And if it's going to harm them, is 505 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: it newsworthy enough that it still needs to be published? Right? 506 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: And so it's possible that some of that may have 507 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: been going on too, even though the state of journalism 508 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: and journalistic ethics totally different in the nineteenth century versus today, 509 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: Well so was the state of the law. Right, this 510 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: is a total extra judicial solution of using air quotes. 511 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: In my head like, well, I guess we got to 512 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: exile them because they were also worried. It never came 513 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: up specifically in any other research, but I had another 514 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: speculative theory that there were concerns that if they did 515 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: execute him and bury him, that his grave would be 516 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: constantly tampered with. Oh sure, in a retribution move. And 517 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: I also just think nobody wanted to kill somebody as 518 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: a solution. Yeah, it was a very fascinating, very fascinating thing. 519 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: I was wildly entertained, which sounds grizzly, but just right. 520 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: Looking at the psychology of a community dealing with this 521 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: was very interesting to me. Yeah, I I When you 522 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: sent me the outline and I read it through, I 523 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: was also fascinated, and like it wasn't It wasn't really 524 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: a morbid fascination, but more of like a wow, this 525 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: story is has so many turns that I did not expect. Yes, 526 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: I I did chuckle when I first read nobody thought 527 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: about the fact that he would take apart the Yeah, no, nobody. 528 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: I guess it's one of those things where like, if 529 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: you do not have a devious mind, it never occurs 530 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: to you that that could happen. Somebody might build a boat. 531 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: Somebody will just take this shack apart and make a 532 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: boat out of it. Yeah, make a little raft for themselves. 533 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: And who knows. He could have just drowned in his 534 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: escape and write, or he could have, you know, lived 535 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: a weird life after that. I don't know. Who knows. 536 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: We don't know, but I'll be thinking about this one 537 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah. Weird way to start the 538 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: new year, I know. But here we are. If you 539 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: are about to head into your weekend, I hope that 540 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: it is as relaxing as possible, that you deal with 541 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: no big questions of morality or any kind of problem 542 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: that might cause you to have to think about what 543 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: its implications are to your faith or your afterlife. I 544 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: hope everybody's cool to each other and that you get 545 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: to eat delicious things and relax, and that the new 546 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: year is treating you as well as it possibly can, 547 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: given the weird times that we live in. If you 548 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: are not off this weekend, I still hope you eat 549 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: a lot of delicious things and that you are surrounded 550 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: by love and kindness. We will be right back here 551 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on Monday we 552 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: will have something for rand new. Stuff you missed in 553 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 554 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 555 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.