1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Hey everyone, welcome to Counterpoints. Ryan is 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: back from his fish excursion down south. How are you doing? Ryan? Wonderful? 11 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: I made it back. All's well, it was great and 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: you're hanging out with Sager and he can probably still 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: smell the smell the weed on you. Yeah, Saga would 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: have had a great time. By the end. We have 15 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: totally turned him out. We have an absolutely packed show 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: today because of breaking news last night. Lori Lightfoot has 17 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: lost in the Chicago mayor's race. It's not going to 18 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: a runoff. Going to talk about huge new reporting from 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: the Intercept that just dropped, I believe. At six am 20 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about student debt. We're going to 21 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: talk about changes at the World Bank reparations in San 22 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Francisco as they try to take care of that. We're 23 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: talking about Ron DeSantis, We're talking about Dilbert, We're talking 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: about seven oh two and the border crisis. And White 25 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: House reporter Philip Wegman from Real Core Politics, we'll be 26 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: with us to talk about new revelations on this administration's 27 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: approach towards gain a function research. Just huge news across 28 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: the board this week. Ryan, Let's start with Ken's story 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: in the Intercept just dropped. Tell us what Ken reported. 30 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: If we can put that tear sheet up there. Basically, 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: I'll just read from the top. Ken reports the US 32 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: military allocated spending for secret contingency operations pertaining to an 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: Iran war plan. According to a classified Pentagon budget manual 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: listing emergency and special programs reviewed by The Intercept, the 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: contingency plan, code named Support Century, was funded in twenty 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: eighteen and twenty nineteen, according to the manual, which was 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: produced for the twenty nineteen fiscal years. So Support century 38 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: is it is a budget line which proves that at 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: that time the Pentagon, which would be the Trump administration 40 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: at the time, had decided that they needed to kind 41 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: of ramp up their war planning for potential conflict with Iran, 42 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: which Ken put in the context of the later move 43 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: to put Israel in centcom, which Israel used to be 44 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: in the kind of European considered in the European theater 45 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: of war, and it was when it was moved into 46 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: sent com it became more central to the US war 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: plans around the Middle East. And so right at January 48 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,559 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, kind of following this, you have Costum Solomani 49 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: get assassinated by the Trump administration, which ratchets up tensions 50 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: in a way that people worried would lead to a hot, 51 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: if short war. It did not. Then after November twenty twenty, 52 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: there were again tons of reports and now reporting in 53 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: hindsight that we were extremely close to a strike on 54 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: Iran at that point. Now with the Biden administration, this 55 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: is all continue to pace. As you have Iran supporting 56 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: the Russia's war against Ukraine. You also have Israel getting 57 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: increasingly hawkish if you can believe that, towards Iran. And 58 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: for the first time, and Ken talked about this in 59 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: his story, for the first time, you have the United 60 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: States saying essentially that if Israel does decide to do 61 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: something offensive against Iran, then that's Israel's call, where in 62 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: the past the US would say, you know, we encourage restraint. 63 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: Where So all of these pieces are coming together to 64 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: suggest that we're much closer to a hot war with 65 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: Iran than people might realize. And you know, actually it 66 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: goes pretty well with something Walter Russell Mead wrote in 67 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal just this week where he said, 68 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: also that we are closer to war in the Middle 69 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: East than most observers probably realize. And then and that 70 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: the political establishment here in Washington is at least willing 71 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: to admit if they don't kind of understand it or 72 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: talk about it behind closed doors. One question I have 73 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: is about the transition from the Trump administration to the 74 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: Biden administration. So as the Biden administration takes over, what 75 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: did Ken report about how they picked up where the 76 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: Trump administration left off. I mean, essentially have kept it 77 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: moving like that. And that's one of the concerns when 78 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: it comes to foreign policy and aggressive executive action globally 79 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: is that it ratchets only one direction. And now the 80 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: one exception that I can think of what might be 81 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 1: the Biden administration's draw down of the drone war. That 82 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: was like, you know, ramped up under you know, gun 83 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: under Bush, really ramped up under Obama, accelerated under Trump, 84 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: but then without much discussion and without much media commentary, 85 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: kind of really rolled back. Yeah, it's basically not been used. 86 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: You hear Kate once in a while about a drone 87 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: strike in Somalia or somewhere else like, but it's every 88 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: couple of months. Whereas you know, they were they were, 89 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: there were drone strikes flying constantly during the Trump administrations. 90 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: But otherwise, you know, once once you heat up, it 91 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: just gets moving. And uh, I was, I was thinking 92 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: about the interesting parallels to kind of the Russian people 93 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: and the Russian and Russian politics and the Russian invasion 94 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: of Ukraine. Because as the world watched Russia, you know, 95 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,119 Speaker 1: massing one hundred thousand plus troops on the Ukrainian border 96 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: and then launched an actual evasion, invasion, and then watched 97 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: the Russian people support that invasion, the world was just stunned, like, what, like, 98 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: what is going on here? But if you think about 99 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: the fact that the Russian people had been hit with propaganda, 100 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, for years about the narrative wells over in Ukraine, 101 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: just constant demonization of Ukrainians, that Ukrainians were terrorists, that 102 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: they were that they were that they were in league 103 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: with the United States, that they were fueling all kinds 104 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: of instability in the in the Domebos, that that was actually, 105 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: you know, Ukraine's fault, that they basically want death to 106 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: Russia because of some of the laws that Ukraine would 107 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: pass about the Russian language or rights for rights for Russians. 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: And so once it, once it ratcheted up to war, 109 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: the Russian public it's like, we're behind this. And so 110 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: you could imagine a case where the United States would 111 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: it would launch an assault on Iran, and the entire 112 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: world like what are you doing? Like why are you? 113 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: Why are you attacking a sovereign country, and you could 114 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: see the American people support it, and I think because 115 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: the American people have been fed a lot of similar propaganda, 116 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: but all of it also rooted in kernels of truth. 117 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: None of it's completely untrue, it's just how it's spun 118 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: and whips through the public imagination. And just my big 119 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: picture thought on this is it's amazing how a custom 120 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: we've become to doing this kind of extreme war mongering 121 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: behind closed doors basically in the last century of American politics. 122 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: That we're learning about this from Ken's report, and this 123 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: had never been reported before, right, we really had no idea, 124 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: let alone, was their public input via congressional action anything 125 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: like that. Nope, nope, right now I would expect Congress 126 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: to be asking some questions about this now that now 127 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: that this is public, I think, so let's move on 128 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: to Chicago. Lori Lightfoot stunned. I think a lot of 129 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: political observers by not even making the runoff last night 130 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: Chicago mayoral election. In fact, Laurie Lightfoot came in third, 131 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: which is pretty brutal for somebody who swept in I 132 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: went back and actually looked at the coverage after she 133 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: won election. It was a lot of press gushing about 134 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: the first black, female, openly gay Chicago mayor ever to 135 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: be elected. Had so many problems during the pandemic, and 136 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: then associated problems potentially associated problems with crime. Although some 137 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: crime is associated with some associated with crime for sure, 138 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: although some continues to go up, some crime is down. 139 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: Homicides for instance, were down last year, but some sorry 140 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: Carl Jackins, are down. Still a huge problem in Chicago. 141 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: But down right, but theft, robberies, burglery is still increasing 142 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: in Chicago, and she had so many different fights. Just 143 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: the style of Chicago politics, Lauria Lightfoot was getting into 144 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: all kinds of she had initially. There's another interesting thing 145 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: that I was reading in some retrospectives on her time 146 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: in the mayor's office. She had been. She had a 147 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: great quote about how she was offended when somebody compared 148 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: her to Rama Manuel back in the day, and then 149 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: when she became mayor, was just as pugnacious, but perhaps 150 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: not with the same rhyme or reason that Votanuel or 151 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: other Chicago politicians were, and just seemed to be picking 152 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: fights almost arbitralli left and right. You might remember the 153 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: really long Chicago Teachers' union strike. Laurie Lightfoot, by the way, 154 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: came out of a background. She hadn't been an elected 155 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: office before. She had experienced on the police board. Her 156 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: opponent who won, actually who came in first, let alone second. 157 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: The first place opponent of hers was endorsed by the 158 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: local police union. So, I mean, you have a good 159 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: take on this, and I'm curious to hear it, But 160 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: just what a fall from grace right, and so this 161 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: is going to set up a general election that pitts 162 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: a guy Paul Vallis has a support of the police 163 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: and has called himself more a Republican than a Democrat, 164 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: though he's technically registered as a Democrats basically as right 165 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: wing as you can get in Chicago and still be 166 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: considered viable against what arguably would be the most progressive 167 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: mayor of Chicago's ever had, perhaps going back to Harold Washington, 168 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: which is an eerily similar situation in which there was 169 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: a divided field that allowed Harold Washington, who was a 170 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: DSA member and a powerful member of Congress, to sneak 171 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: through with less than fifty percent of the vote, make 172 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: it into the runoff, and then the Democratic machine and 173 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: my book actually kind of starts out, my last book 174 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: actually starts out kind of with this race. The Democratic 175 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: machine sides with the Republican, who in this case was 176 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: an actual Republican, not just a sort of Republican. And 177 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: he only ended up winning by a couple thousand votes, 178 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: but he did win. And so the question then becomes, uh, 179 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: you know, who do this? Where do the Centrists go? 180 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: Wea we faced this question in Los Angeles with the 181 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: Caruso versus Karen Bass race. Karen Bass is not quite 182 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: as progressive as Brandon Johnson. Brandon Johnson kind of up 183 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: and down movement. Progressive comes from comes from a classroom. Uh, 184 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: it comes from the kind of United Working Families, which 185 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: is a WFP kind of branch out in Chicago, with 186 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: the support of DSA out in Chicago, which is an 187 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: which is an undertold story. Just like DSA has had 188 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: and WFPF had a ton of success in New York City, 189 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: they've had probably even more success in organizing constituencies in Chicago, 190 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: and this is a direct product of that organizing work. 191 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: And so the question will be do the Centrist go 192 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: with the Republican is Trump guy? Or do the Centrists 193 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: say no, we're Team Blue and that we Brandon Johnson 194 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: might be too progressive for us, but we'd rather have 195 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: him than the Republican light. So you know it's going 196 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: to be a real contest. This is not this is 197 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: except Caruso collapse at the end. So you could have 198 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: a tight race that totally breaks Johnson's way, or you 199 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: could have a tight race down to the wire. So 200 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: there are so many votes on the table, About seventeen 201 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: percent of people cast their bounce for Lori Lightfoot, So 202 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: that's as opposed to twenty percent for Brandon Johnson in 203 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: thirty three point eight, about thirty four percent for Paul Vallas. 204 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: Now Cheuey Garcia, he's at thirteen percent. Willie Wilson is 205 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: at nine point five percent. So you add those two 206 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: up and that's more votes than Lori Lightfoot, but also 207 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: more than Brandon Johnson. So it's not even just the 208 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: simple math of where the Lightfoot votes will go. There 209 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: are a lot of candidates down ballid at least these two, 210 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: and then you end up from the nine point five 211 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: percent that Wilson got to two point one percent for 212 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: Jamal Green, still significant in a tight race where those 213 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: votes go. So my theory of the case is basically 214 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: that Lori Lightfoot, interestingly was kind of elected as whatever 215 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: people want to call it, wokeness cancel culture was starting 216 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: to peak in this country. She was a little high 217 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: in her own supply, felt really good because got lots 218 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: and lots of media coverage, and the way she governed 219 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: was let's say, I'm trying to think of the right 220 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: word or arrogant. Maybe there was a hubris to the 221 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: way that she decided to govern. Then I think actually 222 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: even surprised people and caught them off guard just the 223 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: fights that she would pick. It seems to have no 224 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: clear political logic at raising behind them, fumbled even on 225 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: race issues, and it did not go well for her. 226 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: It's a tough Chicago's a really tough city to navigate obviously, 227 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: let alone during a pandemic, and there are a lot 228 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 1: of national problems that contributed to the tensions and issues 229 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: she faced in Chicago. Certainly, there's no question about it. 230 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: But I also don't want to downplay I think the 231 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: spectacular lack of political talent that Lori Lightfoot ultimately demonstrated 232 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: representtive Chewiy Garcia actually Howard Washington supporter back in the day. 233 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: So there's something generational too here, because you could have 234 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: imagined a world where the progressives all coalesced behind Chewy, 235 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: but instead Brandon kind of out organized him and out 236 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: energized them. I suspect almost all of Chewey's support goes 237 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: to Brandon Johnson will get at least half Wilson half 238 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: of Lori Lightfoot, so I think he has the kind 239 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: of upper hand it's amazing. And last point that we'll 240 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: move to the student debt thing. It's amazing to think 241 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: about how much of our national politics kind of flows 242 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: through and originates in Chicago, like Stephen Douglas, Lincoln, the 243 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: Daily Machine, stealing it for John F. Kennedy, then Howard Washington, 244 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, Rama manual like it. You know, Chicago gets 245 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: overlooked a lot in our national politics, but it probably 246 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: has more influence on our politics than any other city. 247 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: So that I think that makes this insurgency that we're 248 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: witnessing much more relevant because we keep being told that 249 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: now the left is in retreat, and he's like, well, 250 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: what just that Brandon Johnson might become the next mayor 251 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: of Chicago, especially if all those Garcia votes go to him, 252 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: that puts him at the same literally would put him 253 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: at the exact same thirty three percent as ballas right. Well, 254 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: student debt at the Supreme Court this week and the 255 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: oral arguments transpired on Tuesday went pretty much as you 256 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: would expect. Ryan, Yeah, let's put this first one up there. 257 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: This is a challenge, and we talked about this, we 258 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: previewed this yesterday on the show. This is a challenge 259 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: to the Biden plan to cancel ten thousand dollars in 260 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: student debt for everybody making under one hundred and twenty 261 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars canceled twenty thousand for anybody who was 262 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: getting PEL grants, which makes you know more in need 263 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: of financial support. How much we how much we were 264 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: able to listen to. I caught some of the arguments 265 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: back and forth went on for a couple hours. It 266 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: was basically exactly what I expected to hear from the 267 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Some you know, interesting questions from Amy Coney Barrett, 268 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: who actually asked whether she seems to be questioning whether 269 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: some of the Republican states who brought this challenge to 270 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: the Biden law had the standing to bring the lawsuit. 271 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: Which is a huge question at play here, and this 272 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: is the Attorney's General of Nebraska and Missouri. They were 273 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: arguing the law is meant to allow. This is the 274 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: Heroes Act, which is kind of at the center of 275 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: all of this. The Biden administration argued the Heroes Act 276 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: allowed them to do the debt forgiveness plan. Republican states 277 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: are saying that's ridiculous and it rests on this word 278 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: necessary and Republicans are saying to argue that it was 279 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: necessary in a pandemic emergency to forgive student loan debt 280 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: actually is absurd on its face because you could have 281 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: taken X, Y, and Z other steps to mitigate the 282 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: problems of student loan debt. So there's a lot hinging 283 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: on that word necessary. I did think Amy Cony Barrett 284 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: was interesting that she questioned the standing issue. John Roberts 285 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: and Brett Kavanaugh seemed to be pretty opposed on the 286 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: grounds that it was a spectacular use of power or 287 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: would constitute an expansion of power. Kavanaugh had a great 288 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: quote where he said some of the biggest mistakes in 289 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: the Court's history were deferring to assertions of executive and 290 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: executive or emergency power. And I say that's a great 291 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: quote because whether or not you agree with it, it 292 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: really crystallizes I think where the conservative justices might be 293 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: coming from on this issue. And I think this the 294 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: White House Solicitor General did a good job of making 295 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: the counter argument, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure 296 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: it's going to matter because this might just come down 297 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: as a partisan ruling. But her point was if you 298 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 1: read the statute and you can look at the Higher 299 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: Education Act, which they could also justify it under, and 300 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: the way that John Roberts did with ACA and kind 301 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: of rewrote the justification for that, that's a good point. 302 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: You could do that, yes, But she also argued for 303 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: it under the Heroes Act, which says, basically, international emergency, 304 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: the executive is given by Congress the authority to modify, wave, cancel, etc. 305 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: These benefit these particular benefit programs as a result of 306 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: an emergency. So her point is that this is not 307 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: executive authority, this is congressional authority. And if you don't 308 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: allow the administration to do this, then you're actually restricting 309 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: congressional power because Congress very explicitly wanted to write into 310 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: the law flexibility for the executive to operate in a 311 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: time of crisis, and she, as she pointed out, precisely 312 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: as President Trump did at the very beginning of the 313 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: pandemic there was a crisis, he implemented a pause, which, 314 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: as she also rightly pointed out, cost much more money 315 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: to the federal government than the Biden plan would. That 316 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: one was hundreds of billions, maybe even a year. And 317 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: nobody was suggesting that that was unconstitutional. Nobody took it 318 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court. Supreme Court didn't pause it. And 319 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: so her point is that now that you've done this, 320 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: as you're coming out of the emergency, you have to 321 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: find a way to kind of resolve and get back 322 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: into a state of normal affairs. So the idea that 323 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: it would be completely legal and constitutional to pause all 324 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: student loan payments, but not constitutional and not legal to 325 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: figure out a way to kind of ease out of 326 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: that as the crisis ends, would be telling Congress that 327 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: they did that they don't have the power to grant 328 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: the executive that that flexibility to fix something like that, 329 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: which actually does then hamsterring Congress because then Congress has 330 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: to Congress can't write laws that the executive is able 331 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: to follow if the Supreme Court can come in and say, well, 332 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: this is actually a really big number. Because that was 333 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: the thing that a lot of the justices were harvingtular, like, 334 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: this is such a huge number. And as the White 335 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: House was pointing out, yeah, we're like a twenty trillion 336 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: dollar economy. When these agencies do something over a ten 337 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: year window, it's going to cost in the billions of dollars. 338 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: And this is what Sonya said, mayor says. She says, 339 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: quote it's an outrageous sum. It's not a question of money, 340 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: it's a question of Congress's intent. Now, Ilia Shapiro in 341 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: City Journal, I think broke down the argument the government 342 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: is making. He disagrees with it, obviously, but he sort 343 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: of walked through the logics he's saying. The governments lawyers 344 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: now make the following assertions before the Supreme Court. The 345 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: pandemic is a national emergency. Every federal student loan borrower 346 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: either lives in a COVID disaster area or has been 347 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: otherwise financially affected by that emergency. As a result of 348 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: that emergency, some borrowers will default on their loans once 349 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: payments finally resume after a multi year pause, and then 350 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: forgiving some or all of the borrowers principal balances will 351 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: ensure their overall risk of default is no worse than 352 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: it was before the pandemic. Now Shapiro, who disagrees with this, 353 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: Ilia Shapiro writes, that doesn't make a lot of sense, 354 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: because a simpler and more direct that is available. If 355 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: the government's purpose were truly to reduce the harm of 356 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: more defaults, it could put borrowers on an income based 357 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: repayment plans and even more simply waive some of the 358 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: legal consequences of miss payments. And I do think that's 359 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: a very difficult thing for the government to grapple with. 360 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: In the same way, I think your point makes a 361 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: lot of sense. And Ilia writes here about how the 362 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: Trump administration's plan for border wall construction and the Biden 363 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: vaccine mandate via the Osha Act both run into the 364 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: same problems here. And this Court has obviously shown a 365 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: willingness to flex its muscles on executive power a little bit. 366 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: The Heroes Act is from two thousand and three and 367 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: it was passed after nine to eleven, and so there's 368 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: a question as to the sort of level of emergency 369 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: power that's being utilized here. But I do think it 370 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: Also here's a good question for you. The West Virginia v. 371 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: EPA ruling comes into play here as well. Is there 372 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: something to learn from the Supreme Court's ruling in that case, 373 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: which I don't know of Barrett actually was on the 374 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: court for But where do you see it? If you 375 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: see a point A to B from West Virginia b 376 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: E p A to this, I think it sounds like 377 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: if a democratic administration is enacting some type of executive action, 378 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: then the Supreme Court, this, this particular Supreme Court is 379 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: going to look askance at it is going to is 380 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: going to argue that you that it's not within their power. 381 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: Like I do, think it's showing the real, the real 382 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: partisan nature of this system at this point. Uh So. Yeah. 383 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: By the way, we got Randy quine Garten who was 384 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: out in front of the Supreme Court yesterday. Let's let's 385 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: roll roll a little bit of her. President Biden said, 386 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: we are going to deal with that as we deal 387 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: with the end of the pandemic. We're going to deal 388 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: with that. We're not going to start student debt again 389 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: without actually making a down payment of it. And the 390 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: Secretary of Education has the right to do it. And frankly, 391 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: and this is where it really pisses me up. During 392 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: the pandemic, we understood it's fall businesses were hurting and 393 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: we help them, and it didn't go to the Supreme 394 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: Court to challenge it. Big businesses were hurting and we 395 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: help them, and it didn't go to the Supreme Points 396 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: to challenge it. All of a sudden, when it's about 397 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: our students, they challenge it, the corporations challenge it, the 398 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: student low leisures challenge it. That is not right, that 399 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: is not fair, And that is what we are fighting 400 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: as well when we say it's also the dust. This 401 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: is a donz of people, and it is a ton 402 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: of people's future, and it isn't that all of your futures. 403 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it does feel to me like there's so 404 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: much more nitpicking up democratic policies. Like for Shapiro to say, look, 405 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: there are other ways that the administration could do this 406 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: that would satisfy us constitutionally, it's like, okay, cool, Then 407 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: you win the presidential election and you do it those 408 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: other ways. But just because there might be a way 409 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: that you prefer to do it doesn't mean that the 410 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: other way to do it is unconstitutional. And they also 411 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: might be careful what they wish for, because instead now 412 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: they're just going to go back to a pause for everybody. 413 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: So his argument is unconstitutional in this case, particularly because 414 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: the word necessary means that there are no other options 415 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: that what is necessary to just get away with all 416 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: the debt. And again, like I think that's where justices 417 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: are going to be asking whether or not necessary is 418 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: the proper is it necessitates whether that word and of 419 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: itself necessitates the action of sort of broadly canceling ten 420 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: to twenty thousand, right, But that would suggest that any 421 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: that is, if there's any other option, then the option 422 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: that you chose is not necessary because you could have 423 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: chosen another option. So he could actually make the same 424 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: argument way even if he had picked Shapiro's idea. What 425 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: the necessary means is that it's necessary to do something like, 426 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: it's a crisis. You've got trillions of dollars in student 427 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: debt coming out of this pandemic that was paused. We 428 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: have a giant crisis that we need. Then it's necessary 429 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: for the administration to do something to fix it. What 430 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: that something is is something that then the regulators they 431 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: work up they work up a plan. But if just 432 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: because there are five different ways that you could do it, 433 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: like he could have done fifteen thousand, or he could 434 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: have done five thousand, so it wasn't necessary to do 435 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: ten thousand, could have done fifteen and so would he 436 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: then say, well, that's on constitution because it was it 437 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: wasn't precisely necessary to do ten thousand. But yeah, so 438 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: maybe this ends up actually being good news. For all borrowers, 439 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: because I find it very difficult to believe that the 440 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: Biden administration is going to before the twenty twenty four 441 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: election say okay, Supreme Court, fine, we're just we'll just 442 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: reinstitute all all student loan payments. They'll just continue the 443 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: pause which began under Trump. And then they're the Supreme 444 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: Court to say that, Okay, this was fine under Trump, 445 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: but it's actually illegal under Biden, and then let publicans 446 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: run in twenty twenty four on We're going to reinstitute 447 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: all of your student debt payments by January twenty twenty five. 448 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: Vote for US. Well, I think this is what's a 449 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: general problem with Biden that would infuriate me if I 450 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: had student loan debt on the table, because it's a cowardice. 451 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: It's just this milk toast halfway, third way, maybe I 452 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: should say method of approaching student loan debt where there's 453 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: no way that the Biden White House didn't think this 454 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: was got did not realize this was going to get 455 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 1: hung up in the courts, And so twenty five million 456 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 1: people of an estimated forty million who would be eligible 457 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: for this had already filled out the applications and signed 458 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: up before this pause hit twenty five million people. I 459 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: think sixteen million got approved even I mean, it's amazing 460 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: letters it said you're approved of an estimated forty million 461 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: in the balance potential forty million beneficiaries of a law 462 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: like this, and so it's he knew that that was 463 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: going to happen, and there are other ways to do 464 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: this Byonna Droy Gray has laid some of them out. 465 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: Higher Education Act is pretty clear. He know, Yeah, the 466 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: executive power is on the table. It's the same thing 467 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: with OSHA, Like that's why they found they used an 468 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,239 Speaker 1: obscure provision in the OSHA Establishing Act to do that, 469 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: and it's the executive power is on the table. I 470 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: don't think it should be in many cases. But I 471 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: think Joe Biden is a coward for doing the halfway 472 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: route that would politically look good at the expense of 473 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: all of these people who are now in the squeeze, 474 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: whose futures are uncertain, and who have tens of thousands 475 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: of dollars in some cases on the table just pending 476 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: in the court system, with no idea where that's going 477 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: to go and no way to plan. Moving on to 478 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: the World Bank, the World Bank. So David Malpus, the 479 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: Trump appointed head of the World Bank, is out being 480 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: replaced by the guy from MasterCard, who is it, longtime 481 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: CEO of MasterCard, A Jay Banga. There he is. I 482 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: actually think it's an amazing story because if we go 483 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: to the second element, then you see some people on 484 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: the right are actually coming out against this. Here's an 485 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: opd from Daniel McCarthy in the New York Posts saying 486 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: World Bank elites put climate policy over developing nations prosperity 487 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: and security. To your point about Malpus, Ryan, there was 488 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: a huge amount of backlash among people in the World 489 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: Bank sort of circles the political level in the United States, 490 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: where an American is generally always in charge of the 491 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: World Bank, that Malpus was not far left enough on 492 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: climate policy, that he wasn't willing to go far enough 493 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: on climate policy as head of the World Bank, and 494 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: wasn't willing to steer their vast resources in that direction. 495 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: Banga is apparently going to be prepped for that. We 496 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: can put the next element up because I think it's 497 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: so hilarious. I went and looked at the website for 498 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: his private equity firm. This is his bio, you can 499 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: see his board affiliations there. He is a co chair 500 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: of the Partnership for Central America, which is Kamala Harris's 501 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: nonsense root causes organization that's supposed to be addressing those 502 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: quote root causes of our immigration crisis. The International Chamber 503 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: of Commerce, he is the honorary chair over there, former 504 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: board member of the Dow inc of Craft of other 505 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: really big places, which I just think is so perfect 506 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: in this case because it's just a great crystallization of 507 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: what it looks like at the World Bank. To come 508 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: in with somebody more progressive, We're going to get a 509 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: pe exec former CEO of MasterCard who is implicated in 510 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: all of these different like the International Chamber of Commerce, 511 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. It just kind of perfect, And 512 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: like Daniel mccarthio is arguing, basically, he's making this kind 513 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: of colonialism from the anti colonialists argument that the climate 514 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: progressives are becoming colonizers of third world countries with these 515 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: kind of debt trap policies. Obviously, I think you can 516 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: make debt trap arguments about the World Bank going back 517 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: for a long time before they pivoted to climate. What 518 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: do you make of this ring. And so the backstory 519 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: on Malpus is that, you know, he was he was 520 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 1: assumed to want a career in in Republican politics, a 521 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: continuing career in Republican politics, whether it's a cabinet position, 522 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: maybe it's a run for Senate, something along those lines. 523 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: And so he was pressed at this forum I would 524 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: call a climate denier by Al Gore. And he was 525 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: pressed at this forum, do you believe that greenhouse gases 526 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: are contributing you know, man made greenhouse gases are contributing 527 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: to climate change? And he wouldn't answer the question, like 528 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: three or four times in a row. And the assumption 529 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: from the people who around him was this is him 530 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: playing gop politics at this point, because he feels like 531 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: if he says this on a stage with a bunch 532 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: of global elites, then he's cooked. He'll be he'll be 533 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: fried by Tucker Carlson and the whole You know, he's 534 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: and he's done. And on the other hand, at that 535 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: point was he was done internally because the idea that 536 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: climate change exists and is a product of you know, 537 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: man made greenhouse gases is no longer controversial, right, and 538 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: for him to not be able to say that like 539 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: really freaked a lot of people out and made them 540 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: really think about, like, what what's this? Is this guy 541 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: here for the World Bank or what or is he 542 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: here for some other resume building purpose. And so basically 543 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: the writing was on the wall like at that at 544 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: that point that he was he was not long for 545 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: the World Bank World But you're you're right that it is. 546 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: It is fascinating that the World Bank, which can choose 547 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: between well to be the most generous, choose between alleviating 548 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: poverty and actually pursuing development, which throughout its history has 549 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: gone hand in hand with you know, corporate profits and 550 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: has propped up a lot of corruption around around the world, 551 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: corruption that then kind of enriches and buttresses US hegemony. 552 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: But let's say it's it's about actually about development and 553 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: alleviation that and or climate change, because it's also the 554 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: case that the world's poor are the ones that are 555 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: going to be the ones who suffer the most from 556 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: the effects of climate change. So you can't completely disentangle 557 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: the pursuit of a climate agenda with the alleviation of 558 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: poverty and the support for people around the world. Because 559 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: the number one cushion against climate change, the number one 560 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: mitigation as wealth. Yeah, and that's why this is such 561 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: a particularly like this is an incredibly tough issue because 562 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: the world's poor historically are also those who benefit the 563 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: most from industrialization, which is exactly what And that's not 564 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: an argument for just blanket industrialization, but it is to say, 565 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the climate policies and this is what 566 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: the right objects to, would stop and halt industrializing progress 567 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: in some of these I shouldn't even use the word 568 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: progress so flippantly, as it has been done throughout history. 569 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: But the industrialization or if industrialists, let's use the word 570 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: progress for the sake of argumentation in some of those countries. 571 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: And is that fair when it's coming from the World Bank, 572 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: which built itself on you know, this is billions and 573 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: billions of dollars from industrialized countries basically, who then want 574 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: to come in and stop other countries from enjoying the 575 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: fruits of the same technology and infrastructure that they benefited from. 576 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: They amassed their world power on the back of industrialization, 577 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 1: and now they're turning around and saying no. Basically, if 578 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: it's implemented poorly, in the worst case scenario, it looks 579 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: a lot like that. Now that's not to say there 580 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: isn't a best case scenario that should be strived for, 581 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: but you know, this is extremely I'm surprised this hasn't 582 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: gotten as much play in the media because the World 583 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: Bank obviously is in charge of billions and billions of 584 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: dollars of disbursements. This is their active portfolio as of 585 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. I'm looking at about ninety seven point 586 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: six billion dollars to Africa, fifty seven point five billion 587 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: of South Asia, essays in the Pacific thirty seven zero 588 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: point five billion, Latin America and the Caribbean also around 589 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: thirty billion. So obviously, obviously the new head of the 590 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: World Bank is in charge of a ton, just a 591 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: ton of money, and I can see his leadership there 592 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: becoming something of a lightning run. Yeah, And it's it's 593 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 1: true that the global pore are generally, you know, the 594 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: beneficiaries of development. As you know, if you if you 595 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: bring in more projects and you make accessibility to electricity easier. 596 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: At the same time, they also always bear the brunt 597 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: of those those projects, whether it was the massive coal 598 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: plant in India that the that the World Banks kind 599 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: of ombudsman found had been in violation all of all 600 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: of their different compliance recommendations and destroyed fisheries, et cetera, 601 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: et cetera. Or it's they built this hydro electric dam 602 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: and I forget, I forget which Latin American country it 603 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: was in, but basically already and it's barely coming online 604 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: and already it's it's running out of water because they 605 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: just completely botched the whole thing, destroyed, destroyed an ecosystem 606 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,919 Speaker 1: and don't not even get going to get the electricity 607 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: out of it. So you know that it had been 608 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: proposed that, well, maybe another option for the World Bank 609 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: is just to shut down, and maybe we'll get there 610 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: and maybe it won't be such a bad thing. I 611 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: started the block by saying, it was interesting to see 612 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: the McCarthy piece in the New York Post, But some 613 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: segments of the right have been interested in this question 614 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: about the World Bank for a long time, but it 615 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: hasn't really gotten a lot of play. And I actually 616 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,479 Speaker 1: think that's about to change, especially to your point about 617 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: Malpas being hesitant to weigh in on climate change. I 618 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: really want to run We're running a little along here, 619 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: but I really want to run this clip of Ron Paul. 620 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: I think this is from two thousand and seven, just 621 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: laying into the Paul Wolfowitz era of the World Bank. 622 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: Established and managed by a multitude of national governments. The 623 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: World Bank promotes managed trade by which politically connected individuals 624 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: and corporations enriched themselves at the expense of the poor 625 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: and the middle class. Western governments tax their citizens to 626 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: fund the World Bank, lend US money to corrupt Third 627 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: World dictators who obscound with the funds, and then demand repayment, 628 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: which is extracted through taxation from the poor Third World 629 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: citizens rather than from the government officials who responsible for 630 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: the embezzlement. It is, in essence a global transfer of 631 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: wealth from the poor to the rich. So if if 632 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: the right wants to start talking about the problems of elites, 633 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: if they want to start talking about demos in the 634 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: World Economic Forum and the World Bank, Seriously, you take 635 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: a page out of Ron Paul's book here. Yeah, and 636 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: I first got politicized during the air of anti Globalization, 637 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: which was protesting the World Bank IMF wto so Ron Paul, 638 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: no Liae's detected there. Moving on to a story that 639 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: you wanted to cover. San Francisco is debating reparations of 640 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: five million dollars for each black resident, with a lot 641 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: of caveats and requirements that you'd have to meet to 642 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: get that. I don't think it's anywhere near being accomplished, 643 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: but it's pretty far along the process, it seems. Yeah, 644 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: they're debating it right now. This is from the Washington Post. Yeah, 645 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: they're trying to figure out how much San Francisco, where, 646 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: by the way, slavery was never actually legal, should pay 647 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: black residents for decades of discrimination. So there's a panel 648 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: that was appointed by the government they're trying to come 649 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: up with They're not looking at like a mathematical formula, 650 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: as the Washington Post puts it, but they're just trying 651 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: to come up with something that makes sense. Fifteen members 652 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: of that panel. They've been doing this for about a 653 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: year and a half. Here's an example from the Post. 654 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: Also going back to the sixties in San Francisco, they 655 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: say city leaders demolished part of the Fillmore District, a 656 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,280 Speaker 1: neighborhood once done as the Harlem of the West, displacing 657 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: eight hundred and eighty three businesses and twenty thousand people, 658 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: most of them black. Decades later, thousands of people remain 659 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: displaced and the neighborhood has turned into a predominantly white 660 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: enclave of multi million dollar homes. That much is definitely true, 661 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: Which doesn't that point at the actual solution. The homes 662 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: are there, Let the people who are run out of 663 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,399 Speaker 1: the neighborhood move into those homes, right redistribute the homes there. 664 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: We go to see how Nancy Pelosi feels about that 665 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: she's got other homes. That's true. The proposed this is 666 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: more from the police reparations program, is not a recompense 667 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: for slavery, which was nover legal in San Francisco. But 668 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: instead the committee's report says, this is what we're just 669 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: talking about, quote for the public, policies explicitly created to 670 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: subjugate black people in San Francisco by upholding and expanding 671 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: the intent and legacy of chattel slavery. They say that 672 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: black residents in the city of San Francisco have a 673 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: medium median income of about forty four thousand. That compares 674 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: with eighty five thousand for Latinos, one hundred and five 675 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: thousand for agents, and one hundred and thirteen thousand for 676 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: white residents. According to twenty twenty one census data. So 677 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: lest you think that this is sort of a redistribution 678 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: from other minorities to black residents, the argument here is 679 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: they actually have a median income that is much lower 680 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: than other minorities the city of San Francisco, So there's 681 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: some justification to be found there. I think, you know, 682 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: this is an incredibly difficult question because it's not a 683 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: federal program of reparations for slavery. It's then expanding the 684 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: definition of what constitutes reparation worthy policies. There's no doubt, 685 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: there's no question that there's a history in just about 686 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: every major American city of policies that were not explicitly racist, 687 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 1: but we're intentionally racist. And I think you know, there's 688 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: there's a really obvious question of how we deal with 689 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: that when it's still having effects that to borrow phrase 690 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: trickle down into the community. But it's a I mean this, 691 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: the precedent that San Francisco can set here is pretty big. 692 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: And speaking of trickle down, the problem that a lot 693 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: of reparations advocates, you know, have with this type of 694 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: approach is that they will say, and I agree with them, 695 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: that if you don't if you don't fix the systemic 696 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: abuses and systemic racism that that are producing the need 697 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: to do this and to talk about this. Then it's 698 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: then it's pointless. What it is is basically filling a 699 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: bucket with a hole still on the bottom of it. 700 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: It's like, aire, can you set into it? You get 701 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: out of it? Right? And so you would give out 702 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: five million dollars, but if you didn't, but if you 703 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: didn't kind of reorient your system into a into a 704 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: social democracy in which everyone has opportunity, then you're ten, fifteen, 705 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: twenty years from now, you're going to be back. You're 706 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: going to be back in the same place. And so 707 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: in some ways, I think talking about reparations gets elite 708 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: support because it doesn't touch the more fundamental structures. And 709 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: also they're pretty sure that it's not going to happen. 710 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: And I think this article is important and this this 711 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: debate in San Francisco is important to understand in the 712 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: context of this next story for you to put up 713 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: C two, which is from NBC News where they say 714 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: diversity roles disappear three years after George Floyd's murder inspired them. 715 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: In the article against diversity, equity and inclusion. Leaders who 716 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: were hired in waves to help companies achieve an ethnically 717 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 1: balanced workforce after George Floyd's murder in twenty twenty, are 718 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: being phased out. Surveys indicate, leaving experts in the field 719 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: concerned that corporations talk of affecting change was empty words. 720 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: They also point out an extraordinary irony that of the 721 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: remaining uh DEI executives, many of them are white, because 722 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: those were the folks that got in there first, because 723 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: we because we do have the problems that people are 724 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: pointing out, like why on earth would you have so 725 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: many white diversity executives if we didn't, if we didn't 726 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: have a structural, fundamental problem with racism and diversity in 727 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: this country, Like there's no there's no better example of 728 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: it than that. And so as a result, it's the 729 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: first in, first out kind of first in, last out situation, 730 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: a last in, first out. If you're the last diverse 731 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: the officer in. As soon as times get tough and 732 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: nobody's watching you as closely anymore, and you've sort of 733 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: suppressed a lot of your slack uprisings and you're not 734 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: as concerned about the staff revolts anymore, you have more 735 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 1: freedom to maneuver. Then you're like, you know what this 736 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: line item getting rid of this, And so now they're 737 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 1: laying off a bunch of adversity officers with without necessarily, 738 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, solving the problem that they were brought in 739 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: to solve, right, And it's kind of going to be 740 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: interesting to see what those This is a good experiment 741 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,919 Speaker 1: in what those diversity officers were bringing to the table 742 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,760 Speaker 1: in the first place, because if they go I'm really 743 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: curious as to how that plays out. You know, is 744 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,399 Speaker 1: there any noticeable difference in workplace culture for the better 745 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: or the worse. We're about to find that out in 746 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: a fairly big way. And one of the problems, I 747 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: think in general with this conversation, and that's one thing 748 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: that the San Francisco policy discussion is testing, is how 749 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: we define what is the sort of consensus definition of racism. 750 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: And obviously that has been a problem throughout American history. 751 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: There are plenty of people who were just open overt racists. 752 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: There were other people that acted like open overt racists 753 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: that did not see themselves as racists. Now, so that's 754 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: not to say this is a new thing that's just 755 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,440 Speaker 1: suddenly happening, But in the last two decades or so, 756 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: what we've kind of come to understand is, as obviously 757 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: racial discrimination is obviously acting on this belief that people 758 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: are inferior based on the color of their skin, and, 759 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: to quote Martin Luther King, not the content of their character. 760 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: Then you get into a situation where we're asking whether 761 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: certain policies, you know, some of these in San Francisco, 762 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: for instance, the ones that the Washington Post sided obviously 763 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,280 Speaker 1: had racist consequences, no question about it. If you set 764 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: a precedent that reparations are in order for policies that 765 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: were not explicitly racist but had racist consequences, Man, is 766 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: that going to open up the door and open up 767 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: the floodgates to a really big conversation about where public 768 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 1: money is going. I just think that's you know, especially 769 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: we're going to talk later in the show about Angela 770 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: Davis who discovered she was related distantly to people who 771 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: came over on the Mayflower. I think that kind of 772 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: makes our ability to deal with some difficult realities very hard. 773 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: And this reminds me of a recent article in The 774 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: Intercept by Alice Sperry that uncovered that a top diversity 775 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: executive if you saw this at this Quaker organization was 776 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: actually white and was claiming to be I think a 777 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,919 Speaker 1: combination of Arab and Latina. It's an amazing story which 778 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: apparently shouldn't have to do though, because according to this 779 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 1: NBC News stat it says another survey showed that black 780 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: employees represent only three point eight percent of chief diversity 781 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: officers overall, while white people, with white people making up 782 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: seventy six percent of the roles, those of Hispanical Latina 783 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: ethnicity make up seven point eight percent, in those of 784 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,399 Speaker 1: Asian and ethnicity make up seven point seven percent. So 785 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: the three quarters of the diversity executives in this country 786 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: are white. Yeah, which just let's just sit with them. Yeah, 787 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: and they're now firing their deputy they're black and brown deputies. Yeah, 788 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: of course they are, and there's no surprise to that. 789 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,880 Speaker 1: But it is a good reminder to your point about 790 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,879 Speaker 1: how even reparations, let alone DEI, can be used as 791 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: a cop out or smoke screen. That's what a lot 792 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: of this is, and a lot of these conversations are 793 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: the most divisive and politically charged among everything that we 794 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: talk about. They're the ones that have people at each 795 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: other's throats. They're the ones that tear people apart and 796 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,239 Speaker 1: definitely don't bring them together. And they're the ones that 797 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 1: ultimately are basically like the little shiny things that powerful 798 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: people want to dangle in front of the conversation rather 799 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: than making structural changes or making real concessions in that 800 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,760 Speaker 1: because it's it's just easier for them and they don't 801 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,919 Speaker 1: suffer the consequences necessarily, right, and to me, the only 802 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: the only real answer is a is a coalition of white, black, 803 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: and brown working class people who overthrow those white diversity 804 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,800 Speaker 1: officers and like and and recreate a social a social 805 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: democracy based on their shared interests sees the means of diversity. 806 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,399 Speaker 1: Now there you go, there you go. All right, Well, 807 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,839 Speaker 1: let's talk speaking of die as She's let's talk about 808 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: another story involving Governor Ron Desanta's down in Florida. We 809 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: can put up the first element for this one. Politico 810 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: got Win that the basically de Santa's administration as it 811 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 1: is required to or as it is its business and 812 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: its responsibility to organize and oversee events at the Florida 813 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: State Capitol, is requiring those events quote align with its mission. 814 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: That can mean a lot of different things. That can 815 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 1: mean a lot a lot of different things. I'm reading 816 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: from Politico here. I say, one material change to the 817 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 1: rule is that events must align with state agency missions 818 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,520 Speaker 1: and applications must come from an agency sponsor. This is 819 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: according to a Department of Management Services letter that political 820 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: got from multiple groups that were trying to plan events 821 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: at the Capitol. Then once a sponsorship has been obtained, 822 00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: according to this letter, the state agency shall submit the 823 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,799 Speaker 1: required application to DMS on behalf of the requester. There's 824 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: a couple of interesting things in the story. I'm going 825 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: to give DeSantis' response. He was asked at a press 826 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,560 Speaker 1: conference here. He said, we've been very supportive of people 827 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: being able to speak their mind. It's the right they 828 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: should do it. But we've also said, you know, you 829 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: don't have a rite to hijack and do like a 830 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: Heckler's veto and stop the functioning of government. And so 831 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: I think that's probably what it is. But our folks 832 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: can follow up with you about more very quickly. My 833 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,879 Speaker 1: take on this. The Politico article says that this has 834 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,680 Speaker 1: been an effect for a few months. There's no evidence 835 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,640 Speaker 1: that this was used to banner discriminate against anyone in 836 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: those few months. And also on top of that, there's 837 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,360 Speaker 1: this idea that as Desanta's is saying, if it aligns 838 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 1: with the mission, that can just be the sort of 839 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: general mission of the state to host events and politics, 840 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know. I mean, 841 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: it's possible that this can be used in nefarious ways. 842 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: There's no question about it. That align word is obviously 843 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,800 Speaker 1: important here. At the same time, there's just no evidence 844 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 1: that this has been used in nefarious ways yet. So, 845 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just an open question. And it does 846 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: I guess it seems to fit a pattern of DeSantis 847 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: really wanting control over so many aspects of Florida life, 848 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: you know, from from the classroom to Disney, to the 849 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: villages to what goes on you know, who's allowed to 850 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: have a luncheon at the capitol. It does seem like 851 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,359 Speaker 1: this this is a real driving focus for him, which should, 852 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,359 Speaker 1: at least on the surface, cut against his like kind 853 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 1: of free speech warrior thing. It's there's a I can 854 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 1: see how a culture in the governor's office is actually 855 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: kind of interesting could evolve from this idea that Republicans 856 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,280 Speaker 1: now need to be more aggressive about seizing government power 857 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: and using it for their own ideological ends, because that's 858 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: what the left has done for decades and decades, as 859 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: many conservatives feel acutely, and Rondosantis is really the poster 860 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,360 Speaker 1: boy of somebody who's finally, after decades, conservatives say, acting 861 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: on that using government power to advance his own ideological ends, 862 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,319 Speaker 1: not just remaining sort of neutral and saying well, let 863 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: the marketplace of ideas sort this all out, saying no, 864 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: we have government power to advance the ideology. The left 865 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: owns all of these different cultural institutions. So if you 866 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: have the power, use the power, so I can see 867 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: how something would develop from that. I highly doubt Rondosantis, 868 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: even if even if this was nefarious, it had infarious 869 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: intentions behind this rule. I doubt Randasantis would have been 870 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: involved in discussions about it. Maybe he would have, but 871 00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,560 Speaker 1: you can see, and this is a general fear I 872 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 1: think on the right that there's a something really dark 873 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: that evolves from that kind of cultural shift about how 874 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: we use government power. I do want to say, though 875 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: I don't have any like in this case. I think 876 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,799 Speaker 1: it's just an open question if there were evidence that 877 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: it had been used problematically, I'd be all about it. 878 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,439 Speaker 1: I had a problem with his like stop woke act, 879 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,120 Speaker 1: even though I sort of generally like the thrust of it. 880 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,280 Speaker 1: I not you have no problems speaking out against DeSantis 881 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: when I think he goes too far. But this is 882 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,759 Speaker 1: to me a giant open question. It doesn't seem like 883 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,360 Speaker 1: there's a problem yet, and the political article is quoting lobbyists, 884 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: so it sounds like lobbyists fed this article to Politico. 885 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: Politico didn't have any you know, reason or examples of problems, 886 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,240 Speaker 1: but it's perfectly newsworthy in respect. There could be problems 887 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,279 Speaker 1: down the line. Does Dosantis ever back down or does 888 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,799 Speaker 1: he have kind of a bunker circle the wagons campaign mentality? 889 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: Because I could I could see a case where it's 890 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,360 Speaker 1: a good question. It might not actually be anything nefarious 891 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,759 Speaker 1: going on here, but if the lamestream media or the 892 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 1: fake news media is accusing him of doing something, then 893 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: he's going to dig in and just keep doing it, 894 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: even if he's like, yeah, actually I wouldn't have done 895 00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: it that way if but now you've called me on it, 896 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,320 Speaker 1: I'm doing it that way. That's always a huge problem 897 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,799 Speaker 1: and one that I think gets overlooked I don't know. 898 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,919 Speaker 1: I don't think I've really seen that happen with DeSantis 899 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 1: because everything that's sort of sparked debate he's kind of 900 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,400 Speaker 1: doubled down on. I haven't really, but not in that 901 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,360 Speaker 1: sense like he's just said, he hasn't budged in either direction. 902 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,640 Speaker 1: He hasn't pushed up further or hasn't you know, gone 903 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,720 Speaker 1: closer towards the center. We should put up the second 904 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:43,600 Speaker 1: element here. He's making appearances in some interesting states, Davenport 905 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,239 Speaker 1: and Des Moines, Nevada, Manchester, New Hampshire. An appearance in 906 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,359 Speaker 1: South Carolina is also being discussed, according to The New 907 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: York Times, coincidence. Yeah, he likes the weather there. Yeah, 908 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,359 Speaker 1: loves the weather in Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and South 909 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: Carolina just places this time of year. So obviously he 910 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,840 Speaker 1: hasn't announced anything. Donald Trump is announced, NICKI Haley is announced. 911 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: There are other people exploring bids, potentially Tim Scott, potentially 912 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,040 Speaker 1: Mike Pompeo. It looks like definitely Mike Pompeo, but nothing 913 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 1: has has been formally announced. It seems like the writing 914 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,560 Speaker 1: is pretty much on the wall for DeSantis, although it's 915 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,799 Speaker 1: possible there was a poll the other day is showing 916 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,440 Speaker 1: him down like fifteen percent to Donald Trump. It's possible. 917 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: He's sort of savvy enough, and I think he is 918 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,880 Speaker 1: obviously very savvy. Whether or not you like him, he's 919 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,120 Speaker 1: made himself really popular on the right, coming from a 920 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: position really of obscurity while he was here in the House, 921 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,680 Speaker 1: he was a Freedom Caucus member, and what Donald Trump 922 00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:43,560 Speaker 1: made him? So Donald Trump? I mean there's but yeah. 923 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 1: So he's a talented politician at the very least, and 924 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,600 Speaker 1: that could be a reason he sees the writing on 925 00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,600 Speaker 1: the wall maybe backs out of a potential race if 926 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,680 Speaker 1: he sees Donald Trump has pretty much consolidated everything. I 927 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: doubt that that will be the case, but I think 928 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,440 Speaker 1: we'll probably find out sooner rather than later. Yeah, and 929 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,879 Speaker 1: last question for you, is he too short to run 930 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: for president? How dare you? Is spoken as a band 931 00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 1: in the six foot range? Yeah, I mean, we haven't 932 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: elected a short president basically, like ever. Do we know 933 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,960 Speaker 1: how short he is? Like five to seven? What do 934 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: you think does he have does he have taller vibes? 935 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would guess he's probably like five 936 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,239 Speaker 1: to ten. We'll have to investigate this, Yeah, we're on 937 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,240 Speaker 1: top of this. We will, we will get an update 938 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,440 Speaker 1: and bring it to you shortly. Let's move on to 939 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,800 Speaker 1: the continuing fallout for Scott Adams. Big news in Dilbert 940 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,759 Speaker 1: world are used. I used to read it, like in 941 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,240 Speaker 1: high school or whatever one when it was in the comics. 942 00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 1: Sure I read Yeah, it's fine. I'm not. I've never 943 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,520 Speaker 1: understand I've never understood the appeal of Dilbert, honestly, but 944 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 1: it's got like bosses suck, office life sucks, and it's 945 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,360 Speaker 1: funny like that that make funny jokes in the office, 946 00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,400 Speaker 1: Like I haven't. I really haven't since high school. I 947 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,759 Speaker 1: don't think I've actually read it with any consistency. Yeah, 948 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,800 Speaker 1: well that's big news though, because he does. Scott Adams 949 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,960 Speaker 1: does have a lot of He had a lot of 950 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,560 Speaker 1: money on the table, He had a lot of deals, 951 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,399 Speaker 1: and obviously it is true that some of those had 952 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,880 Speaker 1: already gone away before this most recent karfuffle, but he 953 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,319 Speaker 1: did say he was reacting to a poll and this 954 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,320 Speaker 1: is what just kicked off this most recent round of 955 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: controversy that saw Andrews McNeill Universal, that's his syndication company. 956 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,240 Speaker 1: They syndicate Dilbert totally cut time, publishers dumping his book, 957 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: publishers dumping his book, and newspapers around the country dumping 958 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:48,360 Speaker 1: the strip. He basically said that black Americans were quote 959 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,319 Speaker 1: a hate group and that white people should quote get 960 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,640 Speaker 1: the hell away from them. And we can keep moving 961 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,719 Speaker 1: through the elements here because he was reacting to a 962 00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,359 Speaker 1: RAS Music poll basically, and Elon musk Way did on 963 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,320 Speaker 1: this and said, basically, the media is racist because they dropped. 964 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,520 Speaker 1: Yet you can see that tweet there. He was responding 965 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,839 Speaker 1: to the whole thing about the media weighing in on 966 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,000 Speaker 1: Scott Adams and said the media is racist. So he 967 00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,200 Speaker 1: doesn't say whether or not he thinks Scott what Scott 968 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,720 Speaker 1: Adams said was racist, but says, you know the people 969 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,759 Speaker 1: here that are casting the stone. It's a clever way 970 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,560 Speaker 1: to signal support for Scott Adams without actually supporting him. 971 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,080 Speaker 1: Maybe or maybe I read that maybe he's saying you 972 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:33,000 Speaker 1: shouldn't be casting stones from a glasshouse if you're also right, 973 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: and we don't know, but I'll that's totally fair read 974 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,080 Speaker 1: on it too. But if we put up the rasp 975 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: musen tear shoots here. Adams was responding to this poll 976 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,000 Speaker 1: and one thing I think is interesting. Look on the 977 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,759 Speaker 1: right of your screen. There. I'm going to read it 978 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,719 Speaker 1: for people listening. Rasp Musen tweeted, the Anti Defamation League 979 00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,240 Speaker 1: has labeled quote It's okay to be white as hate speech, 980 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,200 Speaker 1: but a majority of all Americans agree with the statement, 981 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 1: including fifty three percent of Black adults and sixty nine 982 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,440 Speaker 1: percent of Democrats. Only twenty six percent of black adults disagree. 983 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,879 Speaker 1: So what Adams was saying is that chunk of black 984 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,799 Speaker 1: adults that disagree. So see where ras Musen frames it 985 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,759 Speaker 1: as glass half full right, that most Americans don't disagree 986 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 1: with this the statement. Even though the ADL says that's 987 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,320 Speaker 1: a hate speech it's okay to be white. Most Americans 988 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,920 Speaker 1: agree it's okay to be white, glass half full. Scott 989 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,000 Speaker 1: Adams comes in and makes his comments, which he sort 990 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,680 Speaker 1: of tried to soft pedal after the whole cancelation thing, 991 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:35,840 Speaker 1: but then said I want nothing to do with my cancellors, 992 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,879 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. He has a fairly popular podcast. He 993 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,759 Speaker 1: was saying that chunk of black Americans that disagrees it's 994 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:45,560 Speaker 1: okay to be white is a hate group and you 995 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,319 Speaker 1: shouldn't live by them. If you're white, which is just 996 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:54,560 Speaker 1: a toxic and just a toxic and ridiculous thing to say. 997 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,000 Speaker 1: But I do think that contacts got lost in the 998 00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:01,480 Speaker 1: media conversation about it. He was talking about this pole, right, 999 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,640 Speaker 1: but then he did broaden out, and most of the 1000 00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,000 Speaker 1: articles have included this quote. So he said, so, if 1001 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,080 Speaker 1: nearly half of all blacks are not okay with white 1002 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,680 Speaker 1: people according to this pole, not according to me, According 1003 00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,680 Speaker 1: to this pole, that's a hate group. I don't want 1004 00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,040 Speaker 1: to have anything to do with them. So, okay, he's 1005 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:18,640 Speaker 1: still talking about that group there, and then he says, 1006 00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,280 Speaker 1: and I would say, based on the current way things 1007 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: are going, the best advice I would give to white 1008 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,000 Speaker 1: people is to get the hell away from black people. 1009 00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,840 Speaker 1: Just get the f away, because there is no fixing this. 1010 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,400 Speaker 1: So he very quickly jumps to just quote, get the 1011 00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: hell away from black people. And this one is, you know, 1012 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,920 Speaker 1: as somebody who's kind of skeptical of the cancel culture impulse, 1013 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,840 Speaker 1: I also do believe that people have a fundamental right 1014 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,000 Speaker 1: to be offended by someone and not want to, you know, 1015 00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: spend money on them. And if companies believe that there 1016 00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,480 Speaker 1: are going to be millions of people who feel that way, 1017 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 1: they do have a right to to say, look, I'm 1018 00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,560 Speaker 1: done with your book. We're not going to distribute your cartoon. 1019 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,880 Speaker 1: This is disgusting, and also it's going to be bad 1020 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 1: for business. So I think, like the the arguments about 1021 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:20,800 Speaker 1: cancel culture in general aren't really ever about the general idea. Like, 1022 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,800 Speaker 1: I think everybody agrees with the idea that culture is 1023 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:28,440 Speaker 1: created by setting boundaries around what is acceptable and not 1024 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,800 Speaker 1: acceptable and that and that's gone on for thousands of years. 1025 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 1: That's how we produce humanity and society. And so what 1026 00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,840 Speaker 1: we're really always debating is whether or not people are 1027 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,080 Speaker 1: being too sensitive and this thing is on this side 1028 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,439 Speaker 1: of the line, or this should be on this side 1029 00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,959 Speaker 1: of the line. But everybody pretty much agrees that there's 1030 00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:47,800 Speaker 1: that there's a line. It's it's and there should be 1031 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,720 Speaker 1: and there should be. But it's all it's a question 1032 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,280 Speaker 1: where you draw the line. And basically, for this one 1033 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,280 Speaker 1: close you know, close to got to be ninety five 1034 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: plus percent of the country, it is like, yeah, that's 1035 00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:58,919 Speaker 1: why that's not even close to the line. I can't 1036 00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,200 Speaker 1: even see the line from there. Yeah, and you're right. 1037 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,040 Speaker 1: He goes from making the semantic argument about what constitutes 1038 00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,560 Speaker 1: a quote hate group and saying, you know, if you 1039 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,720 Speaker 1: have twenty six percent of Black Americans thinking though with 1040 00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,960 Speaker 1: those that make Black Americans hate group. First of all, no, 1041 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,480 Speaker 1: if twenty six percent of people think something, it doesn't 1042 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,520 Speaker 1: make the one hundred percent categorically a haterere And you 1043 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:18,440 Speaker 1: can say, hey, that twenty six percent really hurts my 1044 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: feelings that you go ahead and say that, or there's 1045 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,600 Speaker 1: some problem in our culture that is, you know, engendering 1046 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,000 Speaker 1: this or making this increase. You know, if there's if 1047 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,400 Speaker 1: you're seeing an increase in that number, then yeah, that's 1048 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,200 Speaker 1: not a good thing. But for him to make that jump, 1049 00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:36,840 Speaker 1: I think is a real, obviously real problem. And to 1050 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,360 Speaker 1: your point about cancel culture, Yeah, we've we've always had 1051 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,160 Speaker 1: sort of consensus, and sometimes in the wrong direction. If 1052 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,919 Speaker 1: we're thinking about like academia during the McCarthy era, where 1053 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,000 Speaker 1: there's sometimes been a consensus in the wrong direction about 1054 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,120 Speaker 1: where those boundaries are. There has generally even the most 1055 00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:58,480 Speaker 1: free speech absolutists generally draw the line at incitement or 1056 00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,880 Speaker 1: like actual cost to blind anything like that. So yes, 1057 01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:04,880 Speaker 1: I think we all do agree on that, and this 1058 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,600 Speaker 1: is a good case study. I will say, I if 1059 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 1: what Elon Musk is saying that is that the media 1060 01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,200 Speaker 1: and the left are in no position to be casting 1061 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,520 Speaker 1: stones because they're in a glass house. If that was 1062 01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:18,080 Speaker 1: his argument, which I don't know, it's sort of a 1063 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,960 Speaker 1: charitable reading of what he said. But if that's the case, 1064 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,440 Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent on board with that, because 1065 01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,000 Speaker 1: it is very true that the media will latch onto 1066 01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 1: these case studies that are objectionably and sort of we 1067 01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,640 Speaker 1: can come to consensus, as you were saying, like this 1068 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,920 Speaker 1: is obviously objectionable. Then again, the media is constantly promoting 1069 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,200 Speaker 1: very divisive takes on race, and so is the left 1070 01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,360 Speaker 1: through some of these DEI programs that Ronda Santis, for instance, 1071 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,880 Speaker 1: response to, and people may not agree with their responses, 1072 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,000 Speaker 1: but there are a whole lot of parents, whether they're 1073 01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 1: black or white or brown, that have a problem with 1074 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,480 Speaker 1: what is being taught about race and what is being 1075 01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:01,760 Speaker 1: taught from DEI departments managers in corporate America, and a 1076 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:03,840 Speaker 1: lot of that was promoted by the left and by 1077 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,280 Speaker 1: the media. And so it is always rich to me 1078 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,360 Speaker 1: when we talk about a situation like this, much much 1079 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,960 Speaker 1: more than we talk about the negatives of situations like those, 1080 01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:19,720 Speaker 1: And that was today's episode of Two White People about race. Point. 1081 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,880 Speaker 1: You've got an immigration point, mane, what's your point today? Yeah, 1082 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,360 Speaker 1: that's right. Well, there's important but underappreciated reasons. The media 1083 01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,280 Speaker 1: thinks completely the wrong way when it comes to immigration. 1084 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,280 Speaker 1: They take the narrative of the Chamber of Commerce and 1085 01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,760 Speaker 1: far left Democrats an interesting marriage as gospel. This is 1086 01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:43,760 Speaker 1: really great for businesses and cartels, it is terrible for migrants. 1087 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,560 Speaker 1: Why are journalists and Democrats not in absolute uproar over 1088 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:52,080 Speaker 1: this video of AHHS secretary Javier Bessara comparing migrant children 1089 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,880 Speaker 1: to car parts. If Henry Ford had seen this in 1090 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,880 Speaker 1: his plan, he would have never become famous and rich. 1091 01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:01,919 Speaker 1: This is not the way you do an assembly line. 1092 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,760 Speaker 1: And okay, and kids aren't wait just I get it. 1093 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,200 Speaker 1: But we could do far better than this. It's not 1094 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,760 Speaker 1: the way you do an assembly line. Well, it's true. 1095 01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:12,840 Speaker 1: This video from last summer was leaked to The New 1096 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,240 Speaker 1: York Times, a media outlet, and published as part of 1097 01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,960 Speaker 1: an excellent expose. The paper ran on migrant children working 1098 01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 1: in violation of labor laws by major corporations. But if 1099 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:27,280 Speaker 1: Bisarah worked for Trump, that quote would be blanketing the airwaves. 1100 01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,080 Speaker 1: It has not to say the least. I think it 1101 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:31,560 Speaker 1: got one question in a White House press briefing, and 1102 01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,840 Speaker 1: that is wrong because even the most charitable reading of 1103 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:39,400 Speaker 1: Bessara's quote exposes the most fundamental problem with this administration's 1104 01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,160 Speaker 1: immigration policy. If we're being charitable, Bisarah is arguing that 1105 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,800 Speaker 1: kids need to be moved out of detention facilities efficiently 1106 01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,439 Speaker 1: for their own safety. This is already a dubious argument, though, 1107 01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,640 Speaker 1: because that efficiency, as the Time story shows, is making 1108 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:58,320 Speaker 1: children less safe. As Hannah Dryer reported, quote, while HHS 1109 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: checks on all miners by call calling them a month 1110 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,000 Speaker 1: after they began living with their sponsors, data obtained by 1111 01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:05,960 Speaker 1: the Time showed that over the last two years, the 1112 01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:10,760 Speaker 1: agency could not reach more than eighty five thousand children. Overall, 1113 01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:15,000 Speaker 1: the agency lost immediate contact with a third of migrant children. 1114 01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:18,520 Speaker 1: Dryer added, quote, the federal government hires child welfare agencies 1115 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,600 Speaker 1: to track some miners who are deemed to be at 1116 01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,680 Speaker 1: high risk, but caseworkers at those agencies said that HHS 1117 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,960 Speaker 1: regularly ignored obvious signs of labor exploitation. That's a characterization 1118 01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,520 Speaker 1: the agency disputed. According to Drier, children calling an HHS 1119 01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:36,919 Speaker 1: hotline to report labor violations were never getting responses from 1120 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: the agency. Of course, there's plenty of blame to go 1121 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,919 Speaker 1: around heartside, a company that supplied contract manufacturers for major 1122 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,600 Speaker 1: food companies conceded to the Times that it didn't verify 1123 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:50,080 Speaker 1: worker ages through a national Social Security check at just 1124 01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,800 Speaker 1: this grand rapids plant implicated in child labor and the 1125 01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:56,520 Speaker 1: Time story. But think about that. The two biggest benefic 1126 01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:02,320 Speaker 1: beneficiaries of HHS's policy are major American corporations in native 1127 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:06,520 Speaker 1: cheap labor and cartels in Mexico. Well, why the cartels, 1128 01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,520 Speaker 1: As the Times reported, the children quote send cash back 1129 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,760 Speaker 1: to their families while often being in debt to their 1130 01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,120 Speaker 1: sponsors for smuggling fees, rent, and then living expenses. Every 1131 01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: single unaccompanied minor that crosses our border pays a cartel 1132 01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:24,560 Speaker 1: smuggling fee. This is really really simple. More migration leads 1133 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,200 Speaker 1: to more money for cartels. In most cases, they aren't 1134 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,480 Speaker 1: sneaking kids across the border either. They're trafficking them up 1135 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,880 Speaker 1: through Central America and Mexico, where they turn themselves into 1136 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:39,200 Speaker 1: authorities and begin the legal asylum process. So legalizing this 1137 01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:42,520 Speaker 1: migration would not automatically solve the problem, because migrants from 1138 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,840 Speaker 1: Central America would still need to travel through cartel controlled 1139 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,920 Speaker 1: Mexico unless they could afford flights, and even if they could, 1140 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,120 Speaker 1: you can bet cartels would try to make them pay 1141 01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,920 Speaker 1: for access to those too. This is now human trafficking, 1142 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,360 Speaker 1: as big business and cartels will not give it up easily. 1143 01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,440 Speaker 1: The time story is also clear that most of the 1144 01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,840 Speaker 1: two hundred fifty thousand unaccompanied minors we know have crossed 1145 01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,560 Speaker 1: in the last two years are economic migrants. Central American 1146 01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,120 Speaker 1: politics were not magically more stable under Donald Trump. The 1147 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,520 Speaker 1: surgeon economic migration, as Todd Bensman says, it's like a faucet. 1148 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,320 Speaker 1: The water is always there, but it doesn't flow from 1149 01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,200 Speaker 1: the tap until you turn it on. Joe Biden's policies 1150 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,920 Speaker 1: turned it on. This is what the media misses. Biden 1151 01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:26,200 Speaker 1: has incrementally expanded humanitarian parole, most recently via the CBP 1152 01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,840 Speaker 1: one app to reduce the bad optics of illegal crossing numbers. 1153 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,960 Speaker 1: So Bensman estimates about thirty five percent of one hundred 1154 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,200 Speaker 1: and fifty monthly paroleees get sent back. Those odds are 1155 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,080 Speaker 1: strong enough to draw economic migrants up to our border. 1156 01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 1: In staggering numbers. That's why we're seeing increases. We believe 1157 01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,720 Speaker 1: that CBP one has encouraged migration. That is a quote 1158 01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:52,120 Speaker 1: from a Tijuana migration official to Telemundo in February quote, 1159 01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,760 Speaker 1: it looks easier to have an appointment. Yes, we have 1160 01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,680 Speaker 1: seen people who arrive with that expectation. There you go. 1161 01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:01,160 Speaker 1: Shelters report being flooded, and as they will say, it's 1162 01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,960 Speaker 1: not just because of the pandemic economy in these countries, 1163 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,680 Speaker 1: it's because of this administration. So it's no wonder HHS 1164 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:11,480 Speaker 1: is completely incapable of handling these kids safely. These are 1165 01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:16,120 Speaker 1: impossible numbers for any country to handle with respect and dignity, 1166 01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,800 Speaker 1: both to the migrants and to their own citizens. We 1167 01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,320 Speaker 1: do need immigration for economic reasons. We should absolutely offer 1168 01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,840 Speaker 1: as much political asylum as we safely can. For moral reasons, 1169 01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,120 Speaker 1: and yes, the US historically destabilized Central American Mexico with 1170 01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,560 Speaker 1: drugs and coups. We should help these countries, we should 1171 01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,360 Speaker 1: help their people. But what's happening now is a moral 1172 01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:40,320 Speaker 1: disaster fueled by the cowardice of American politicians and the 1173 01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:43,720 Speaker 1: ignorance of American media. They are the useful idiots of 1174 01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:46,919 Speaker 1: big business in cartels. Thousands of kids every single month 1175 01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,480 Speaker 1: are being abused on their journeys north, some of them 1176 01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,800 Speaker 1: dying then entering a country where their legal future is 1177 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:57,480 Speaker 1: completely uncertain and unstable. Also, Democrats can claim some faux 1178 01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,320 Speaker 1: moral high ground, the ignorant media is more than happy 1179 01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,080 Speaker 1: to give them. Our policies need to be clear, lawful, 1180 01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:07,360 Speaker 1: and uniform. Asylum needs to be enforced, not preemptively assumed 1181 01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:11,160 Speaker 1: for people whose claims are obviously dubious at the expense 1182 01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,760 Speaker 1: of those who are real. That's the only way to 1183 01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:17,040 Speaker 1: reduce the wave of economic migration that's fueling cartel power, 1184 01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:21,960 Speaker 1: hurting desperate people, and devastating our bureaucracy's ability to handle 1185 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:28,400 Speaker 1: this with humanity and fairness. Ryan, what is your point today? 1186 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,480 Speaker 1: So I wanted to talk a little bit about the 1187 01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:36,000 Speaker 1: Section seven oh two controversy that we've been that I 1188 01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,800 Speaker 1: hope people have been following, because it's the seven oh two, 1189 01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:42,000 Speaker 1: as people may or may not know, is referred to 1190 01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,320 Speaker 1: as kind of the crown jewel of the surveillance state. 1191 01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:49,960 Speaker 1: It is the authority that gives the NSA what they 1192 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,560 Speaker 1: call a legal rationale to do their most intensive spying 1193 01:07:54,880 --> 01:08:00,200 Speaker 1: and surveillance, but it is supposed to bar them from 1194 01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:04,200 Speaker 1: uh spying on Americans essentially, And so there was a 1195 01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:07,000 Speaker 1: big report in Wired and we could put this up. 1196 01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,560 Speaker 1: This is a post from Warren Davidson, a Republican congressman 1197 01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,080 Speaker 1: who has been very good on this issue, sharing sharing 1198 01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:18,680 Speaker 1: this this Wired report that that found that, according to 1199 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:24,120 Speaker 1: a declassified audit of the of the Section seven oh 1200 01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:30,680 Speaker 1: two authority execution, the government had searched the name of 1201 01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:37,120 Speaker 1: a US congressman attempting to find some type of connection 1202 01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:43,760 Speaker 1: to foreign influence. This is within the within the kind 1203 01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,240 Speaker 1: of surveillance world, an explosive revelation because it goes beyond 1204 01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,479 Speaker 1: just an example of them actually searching, you know, and 1205 01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:54,479 Speaker 1: surveilling an American citizen, but actually an American congressman. We 1206 01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,640 Speaker 1: don't know, you know who that who that congressman is, 1207 01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,639 Speaker 1: We don't know what the context is. But the FBI 1208 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,000 Speaker 1: and the Department of Justice has finally responded. So yesterday 1209 01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,840 Speaker 1: the Assistant Attorney General, Matthew Olsen spoke at the Brookings 1210 01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,439 Speaker 1: Institution and he addressed this. So I'll just read this 1211 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:14,960 Speaker 1: and do this for the podcast people too, so if 1212 01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,800 Speaker 1: they can't read it on screen. So he said, every 1213 01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,639 Speaker 1: compliance incident matters, of course, but incidents involving US person 1214 01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:26,160 Speaker 1: information are especially damaging to public trust. Congress authorized the 1215 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,920 Speaker 1: government to collect foreign intelligence under section seven oh two 1216 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,559 Speaker 1: without obtaining individual court orders because seven oh two targets 1217 01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,439 Speaker 1: non US persons who are outside the United States. While 1218 01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,519 Speaker 1: the intelligence community has collected the foreign intelligence information because 1219 01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,160 Speaker 1: of the need to protect national security, we still need 1220 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,840 Speaker 1: strong guard rails when the intelligence community searches this data 1221 01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,800 Speaker 1: for information about Americans. He goes on to be clear, 1222 01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,080 Speaker 1: it is critically important that the government is able to 1223 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,160 Speaker 1: do exactly that. When we examine seven oh two information 1224 01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:56,200 Speaker 1: using query terms associated with US persons, we're often trying 1225 01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,919 Speaker 1: to identify US person victims of foreign hacking or spying. 1226 01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,880 Speaker 1: That's what lets us warn and protect them. If we 1227 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,880 Speaker 1: are to keep protecting Americans from escalating cyber and espionage threats, 1228 01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:10,960 Speaker 1: we need to maintain the capacity to conduct US person queries. 1229 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,720 Speaker 1: This is especially true for the FBI, which is responsible 1230 01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,640 Speaker 1: for protecting the homeland from national security threats emanating from overseas. 1231 01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:22,280 Speaker 1: So what Olsen is suggesting to the public here is 1232 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:26,120 Speaker 1: that they were actually spying on this member of Congress 1233 01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:30,080 Speaker 1: for their own good to protect them. If that were 1234 01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:34,920 Speaker 1: the case, you would expect that they would have you 1235 01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:37,000 Speaker 1: would say, perhaps they would have leaked this to the 1236 01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,920 Speaker 1: media because they're always you know, looking for you know, 1237 01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,920 Speaker 1: positive coverage of this surveillance authority so that when it 1238 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,599 Speaker 1: comes back up for reauthorization, they can point, hey, look 1239 01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,240 Speaker 1: look what we were able to do. There was this 1240 01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,320 Speaker 1: spying operation. They were even coming after this hapless member 1241 01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,000 Speaker 1: of Congress, and we busted it up. We let them 1242 01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,040 Speaker 1: know we solved this problem, or they would have at 1243 01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:04,640 Speaker 1: least brief Congress and said, hey, look, just so you're not, 1244 01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, freaked out here, like we ran a query 1245 01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,599 Speaker 1: on a member of Congress. But here is exactly why 1246 01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,920 Speaker 1: we did it, Like here is the spir ring, here's 1247 01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:16,280 Speaker 1: the country that we suspected was spying on them. Here 1248 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,200 Speaker 1: is here's what they were trying to get out of them, 1249 01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:22,559 Speaker 1: and we uncovered it. This is this was the result 1250 01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,639 Speaker 1: of it. But we just wanted to be transparent about 1251 01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:27,320 Speaker 1: it because it did involve not just a US person 1252 01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,840 Speaker 1: but a US member of Congress. No evidence that they 1253 01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:35,240 Speaker 1: carried out that briefing. Instead, it got found in this 1254 01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:38,479 Speaker 1: audit wound up in this report which was declassified, which 1255 01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,519 Speaker 1: Wired uncovered and wrote about, and so now now we 1256 01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,960 Speaker 1: know about it, and now after the fact they're saying, well, oh, 1257 01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:51,680 Speaker 1: actually that was for the round good while acknowledging in 1258 01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,400 Speaker 1: the report they say, Okay, this was actually illegal, and 1259 01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,120 Speaker 1: they claim it was based on a quote misunderstanding of 1260 01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,439 Speaker 1: the law. So there's nothing wrong with the law, they 1261 01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,000 Speaker 1: just kind of misunderstood it in all of their good 1262 01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:09,080 Speaker 1: intentions to try to help this member of Congress. I 1263 01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,080 Speaker 1: can't imagine that there's anybody listening that finds any of 1264 01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,240 Speaker 1: any of that explanation credible. You know, at least they're 1265 01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,639 Speaker 1: feeling enough pressure that they've had to go to Brookings 1266 01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,559 Speaker 1: and talk about it. But this is this is going 1267 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,760 Speaker 1: to heat up over the next several months, you know, 1268 01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:29,400 Speaker 1: as as this as this authority expires, because if it expires, 1269 01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:36,160 Speaker 1: it it then throws into question the nssay's entire surveillance program. 1270 01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,120 Speaker 1: And then and then it requires the NSA to come 1271 01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:39,800 Speaker 1: back to Congress, which they often do and say, well, 1272 01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,800 Speaker 1: we actually have these other authorities, we can continue our 1273 01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:46,200 Speaker 1: spying legally without seven or two. And then then you're like, 1274 01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,839 Speaker 1: I'm not so sure about that let's show me those authorities. 1275 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:54,880 Speaker 1: Let's let's let's examine those too. So what do you 1276 01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:59,439 Speaker 1: think of the potential for this to have some genuine 1277 01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:02,280 Speaker 1: policy and cations when it comes to surveillance or I 1278 01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,240 Speaker 1: also sometimes get the feeling that the public has just 1279 01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,559 Speaker 1: kind of moved on. They're like, they're just listening to 1280 01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,800 Speaker 1: everything all the time, and who cares. Yeah, although at 1281 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,240 Speaker 1: the same time, I think people are hyper aware of 1282 01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:17,000 Speaker 1: the kind of expansion of government post COVID. But to 1283 01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,519 Speaker 1: your point about policy implications, you can see when this 1284 01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,960 Speaker 1: is affecting a member of Congress who was sort of 1285 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:27,640 Speaker 1: had that nanny state approach from the from the surveillance 1286 01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:30,559 Speaker 1: for their own good, how members of Congress might then 1287 01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:33,360 Speaker 1: get freaked out. And I'm sure they assume, or they 1288 01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,040 Speaker 1: should assume, if they're not stupid, that their communication is 1289 01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,599 Speaker 1: basically all compromised, whether by a foreign government or by 1290 01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,760 Speaker 1: our own government. That's probably a safe assumption, whether or 1291 01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,960 Speaker 1: not it's true. In every case, you should probably assume 1292 01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,559 Speaker 1: it because you're just so vulnerable in that situation. But 1293 01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,479 Speaker 1: to see the government citing it in the way that 1294 01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,800 Speaker 1: you framed it, or in the way that they framed it, 1295 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,080 Speaker 1: and you point out is powerful because that's going to 1296 01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,000 Speaker 1: make members of Congress feel undermined. I have absolutely no 1297 01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,120 Speaker 1: opimism that they'll fail to reauthorize seven oh two, because 1298 01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,559 Speaker 1: you mentioned they love to trot out anytime it's in jeopardy, 1299 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,920 Speaker 1: they trot out all of these case studies. They say 1300 01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,880 Speaker 1: without seven oh two, we never could have stopped this 1301 01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:14,000 Speaker 1: was the Times Square bombing is one that they point to. 1302 01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,160 Speaker 1: I think we've never They all fall apart under scrutiny, 1303 01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,639 Speaker 1: like you peel them back a little bit and you're like, no, actually, 1304 01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:22,920 Speaker 1: none of this is true. And if you couldn't prevent 1305 01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:25,960 Speaker 1: it through other means, develop other means, find other means, 1306 01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:29,679 Speaker 1: be better instead of just taking the shortcut of creating 1307 01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:33,360 Speaker 1: the seven oh two database, which is basically like, if 1308 01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, they tap into servers like Google and 1309 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,599 Speaker 1: like to create this massive, massive database that's encrypted until 1310 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,320 Speaker 1: they search it. Basically, it's just the most obscene and 1311 01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,000 Speaker 1: they say it's not mass collection because it's not collection 1312 01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:53,880 Speaker 1: until they search, right right, outrageous, plugging into underground cables 1313 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:59,360 Speaker 1: exactly like that sort of thing, yeah, like the literal wires. Yeah, yeah, 1314 01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:02,000 Speaker 1: So I'm not optimistic at all that they'll decline to 1315 01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,120 Speaker 1: reauthorize it, because even if a situation like this comes 1316 01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,720 Speaker 1: up that I think does probably incense members of Congress, 1317 01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,439 Speaker 1: I can't see them building momentum to end Section seven 1318 01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,759 Speaker 1: oh two. When you're going to have a full court 1319 01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:16,639 Speaker 1: press from the intelligence community that has all of its 1320 01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:20,840 Speaker 1: buddies at the New York Times and MSNBC doing their bidding, 1321 01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,160 Speaker 1: that's going to say there's no way we can get 1322 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:25,320 Speaker 1: rid of this. Everyone is going to be an immediate 1323 01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:28,280 Speaker 1: risk for a terrorist attack if we do. Good for 1324 01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:33,160 Speaker 1: Warren Davidson, you know, and other both Democrats and Republicans 1325 01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,080 Speaker 1: who are pushing on this, it's one of the rare 1326 01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:40,720 Speaker 1: kind of bipartisan efforts, but it's still a minority of 1327 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,320 Speaker 1: the House. But up up next, we got Friend of 1328 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,320 Speaker 1: the Show Philip Wegman, Is that right? That's right, Friend 1329 01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:47,799 Speaker 1: of the Show Philip Wegman, to talk about gain, a function, 1330 01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:52,120 Speaker 1: research and pretty big new discussion out of the White 1331 01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:54,000 Speaker 1: House this week. He asked a question to them. We're 1332 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,160 Speaker 1: going to ask him about the question he asked the 1333 01:15:56,160 --> 01:16:01,639 Speaker 1: White House coming up next. The corporate press doesn't want 1334 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,080 Speaker 1: to talk very much about gain of function research, but 1335 01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,519 Speaker 1: we will not stop covering it here, especially on the 1336 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:10,479 Speaker 1: heels of the Department of Energies determination that there's a 1337 01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:14,639 Speaker 1: good probability the pandemic originated from a lab leak. Now 1338 01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,400 Speaker 1: Philip Wegman joins us. He is the White House reporter 1339 01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,920 Speaker 1: for Real Clear Politics, and he actually pressed the White 1340 01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,280 Speaker 1: House on that question this week and wrote about it 1341 01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,360 Speaker 1: for Real Clear Politics. We can put the story up 1342 01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:26,880 Speaker 1: on the screen. This is our first element. The White 1343 01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,479 Speaker 1: House told Philip that the Biden administration supports quote safe 1344 01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,680 Speaker 1: and secure gain of function research. Ryan over at the 1345 01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:36,639 Speaker 1: Intercept has been covering extensively whether gain of function research 1346 01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,920 Speaker 1: can ever be done safely and securely. Let's play the 1347 01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,559 Speaker 1: clip of phil pushing the White House on this question. 1348 01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,759 Speaker 1: Without weighing in one way or the other on orsion 1349 01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:49,040 Speaker 1: of the virus, you might clear that there's no consensus. 1350 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:53,880 Speaker 1: Does the President believe though, that the reward out weighs 1351 01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,080 Speaker 1: the risk when it comes to gain of function research? 1352 01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:58,840 Speaker 1: Does a reward outweigh the risk when it comes to 1353 01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:03,760 Speaker 1: gain You're going to have to say that again. Does 1354 01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:05,920 Speaker 1: the President believe that this type of gain of functional 1355 01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:12,960 Speaker 1: research is proven? He believes that it's important to help 1356 01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:18,240 Speaker 1: prevent future pandemics, which means he understands that there has 1357 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:23,439 Speaker 1: to be legitimate scientific research into the sources or potential 1358 01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:26,080 Speaker 1: sources of pandemics so that we understand it, so that 1359 01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:28,559 Speaker 1: we can prevent them and we can prevent them from happening. Obviously, 1360 01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:31,800 Speaker 1: but he also believes, and this is why he wants 1361 01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,840 Speaker 1: the whole of government effort here to understand it, that 1362 01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:36,800 Speaker 1: that research has to be done. It must be done 1363 01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:39,800 Speaker 1: in a safe and secure manners and as transparent as 1364 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:41,880 Speaker 1: possible to the rest of the world, so people know 1365 01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,760 Speaker 1: what's going on. All right, Philip, you also reported this 1366 01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,640 Speaker 1: out with interviews. You got quotes from Marco Rubio. We 1367 01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:49,880 Speaker 1: can put the third element up with you got quotes 1368 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:52,599 Speaker 1: from Rand Paul. You've been talking to the White House 1369 01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:56,479 Speaker 1: about safe and secure gain of function research. What does 1370 01:17:56,479 --> 01:18:00,799 Speaker 1: that mean for how this could be affecting where money goes, 1371 01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,679 Speaker 1: where money is steered in this administration. So, even as 1372 01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,599 Speaker 1: there's more evidence coming out from the US Energy Department 1373 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,240 Speaker 1: and also the FBI that points in the direction of 1374 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:15,240 Speaker 1: a potential lab laque scenario, the White House is agnostic 1375 01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:18,240 Speaker 1: on the origins of COVID. They say that there's no consensus, 1376 01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,559 Speaker 1: but meanwhile they still believe that in some cases gain 1377 01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,320 Speaker 1: of function research can be prudent. And the reason why 1378 01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:29,639 Speaker 1: I found this answer from Kirby so interesting is because 1379 01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:31,839 Speaker 1: it comes at a moment when the National Science Advisory 1380 01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:35,479 Speaker 1: Board has actually put forward new rules and regulations for 1381 01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:37,840 Speaker 1: how gain of function would be handled here in the 1382 01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:42,280 Speaker 1: United States, and essentially those rules and regulations they're sitting 1383 01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:44,439 Speaker 1: on the President's desk. We haven't heard from him yet, 1384 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,559 Speaker 1: and Kirby's answer gives us the answer. Biden thinks that 1385 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,519 Speaker 1: on occasion it can be worthwhile, and so it sounds 1386 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,639 Speaker 1: like that means the new guidelines will probably be passed 1387 01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,599 Speaker 1: through and then money will be steered in that direction. Yeah, 1388 01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:01,000 Speaker 1: we'll see what the new rules actually entail. There's new 1389 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,599 Speaker 1: regulations in terms of which type of labs can handle 1390 01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,960 Speaker 1: this sort of thing. There's reporting regulations currently. Though what's 1391 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:10,640 Speaker 1: alarming is that there's generally a patchwork of regulations in 1392 01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:13,479 Speaker 1: this country when it comes to how labs handle this 1393 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,200 Speaker 1: type of research. And that's one of the reasons why 1394 01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:19,519 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, the Obama administration, because of some concerns 1395 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:21,679 Speaker 1: over avian flu, said wait a minute, we're just gonna 1396 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,080 Speaker 1: have a moratorium or taxpayer funding for this sort of thing. 1397 01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:28,040 Speaker 1: Three years later, it's the Trump administration that lifts that moratorium. Yeah, 1398 01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that twenty fourteen ban, 1399 01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:34,599 Speaker 1: because that pause was implemented in the face of stiff 1400 01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:39,480 Speaker 1: opposition from doctor Anthony Fauci, who argued publicly and privately 1401 01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:44,559 Speaker 1: that the pause was inappropriate and it would harm future 1402 01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:49,920 Speaker 1: pandemic prevention efforts. It was it's then lifted Faucu was 1403 01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:54,120 Speaker 1: able to move money to this lab and to other 1404 01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:59,000 Speaker 1: gain of function research. So you have an entire set 1405 01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:03,960 Speaker 1: of officials, many of whom were there in twenty fourteen 1406 01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:08,680 Speaker 1: when that I think correct decision was made. So you 1407 01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:13,120 Speaker 1: ever talk to them about why it was the right 1408 01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:15,880 Speaker 1: decision in twenty fourteen to pause gain and function research, 1409 01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:19,679 Speaker 1: and now it's the right decision to allow it. And 1410 01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:24,240 Speaker 1: in the interim we at minimum we may have had 1411 01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:28,040 Speaker 1: a gain of function related pandemic produced by a lab 1412 01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:30,960 Speaker 1: doing that kind of work. So what's fascinated about this 1413 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:32,479 Speaker 1: is that you see a lot of the same names 1414 01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,320 Speaker 1: and organizations pop up again and again. In twenty seventeen, 1415 01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,760 Speaker 1: when Francis Collins, who is the acting director of NIH 1416 01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,639 Speaker 1: lifts the moratorium, Who does he think the National Science 1417 01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:44,000 Speaker 1: Advisory Board, who is putting together the new rules and 1418 01:20:44,040 --> 01:20:46,600 Speaker 1: regulations that are currently in the White House Office of 1419 01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:50,599 Speaker 1: Science and Technology. Oh, it's the same folks. And now 1420 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:52,920 Speaker 1: that the moratorium, you know, looks like it's going to 1421 01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:54,880 Speaker 1: be lifted, looks like there's going to be more money 1422 01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:59,080 Speaker 1: steered in this direction. Even then, with increased rules and 1423 01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:01,720 Speaker 1: regulations that it seems the White House to signal they're 1424 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,599 Speaker 1: on board with, you still have some of these scientists saying, 1425 01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:07,160 Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is going to stand in the 1426 01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:09,599 Speaker 1: way of free inquiry, This is going to hurt our 1427 01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:13,799 Speaker 1: research efforts. We need this so that we can prevent 1428 01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:17,760 Speaker 1: the next outbreak. But the fundamental question here is how 1429 01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:20,960 Speaker 1: much risk are we willing to take when it comes 1430 01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:24,320 Speaker 1: to this. Is it ten percent chance, five percent chance 1431 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,679 Speaker 1: of a once in a century global pandemic, a one 1432 01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,400 Speaker 1: percent chance of killing more than a million Americans, you know, 1433 01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,880 Speaker 1: if things get out of hand. And the answer that 1434 01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,280 Speaker 1: we got from the administration is that they think that, 1435 01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:37,920 Speaker 1: you know, this can be done safely. It can be 1436 01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:40,599 Speaker 1: done securely here in the United States. Of course, though 1437 01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:45,320 Speaker 1: you know that's the United States. Our moves create, you know, 1438 01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:49,120 Speaker 1: a impetus for other nations with you know, more lax 1439 01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:52,200 Speaker 1: regulation to go forward with their own. And I think 1440 01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,880 Speaker 1: that's one of the most stunning revelations from the pandemic 1441 01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,640 Speaker 1: and looking into the origins of it, is how byzantine 1442 01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:03,160 Speaker 1: the system of you US dollar allocation is in other countries. 1443 01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,559 Speaker 1: As you say, it's a patchwork, but it's a patrick 1444 01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,120 Speaker 1: in our country, let alone other countries. And so giving 1445 01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,000 Speaker 1: an okay to gain a function from the Biden administration, 1446 01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,599 Speaker 1: we like to say here, you have not earned reprieve 1447 01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:17,800 Speaker 1: from another pandemic. We have not earned time off from pandemics. 1448 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,639 Speaker 1: This could happen again at any time if the Lablik 1449 01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,320 Speaker 1: theory is correct, as the Department of Energy recently said 1450 01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:27,920 Speaker 1: was likely the case, and they're in conjunction with the FBI, 1451 01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:29,599 Speaker 1: which we're going to get to in just a second. 1452 01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,519 Speaker 1: If you have that, that means that you haven't earned 1453 01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,559 Speaker 1: any time off from pandemics. This could potentially be happening 1454 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:37,840 Speaker 1: any day, even though we feel like we've earned the 1455 01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,559 Speaker 1: time off from it. So what did Republican senators say 1456 01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,960 Speaker 1: when you took this question? To them after getting that 1457 01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,080 Speaker 1: response from the Administration. Their critique is much of what 1458 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,960 Speaker 1: you said. They are of the opinion that the White 1459 01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,599 Speaker 1: House doesn't earn any authority to sign off on new 1460 01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:56,439 Speaker 1: rules and regulations until they actually give a reasoned account 1461 01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,360 Speaker 1: for where the pandemic came from. Senator Marco Rubio tells 1462 01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:02,080 Speaker 1: me that the White House would have a lot more 1463 01:23:02,120 --> 01:23:05,559 Speaker 1: credibility on the question of regulation. We can pushed Marco 1464 01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:08,800 Speaker 1: Rubio's quote up there, if you know they had been 1465 01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:13,080 Speaker 1: more forthright about you know, where this came from. Obviously, Republicans, 1466 01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,720 Speaker 1: they've made an assessment in their mind, and more or 1467 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,400 Speaker 1: less at this point, Senator, Republicans are saying that they 1468 01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,519 Speaker 1: want a complete and total moratorium on any funding to 1469 01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,920 Speaker 1: a university or institution that does this type of research. 1470 01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:31,120 Speaker 1: To go back to the point that Kirby's making about 1471 01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,639 Speaker 1: the need to prevent future pandemics, because I think that 1472 01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,920 Speaker 1: is that's the most powerful argument on the other side 1473 01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:42,080 Speaker 1: of the question. But it always strikes me that the 1474 01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:45,080 Speaker 1: case of Wuhan, because let's imagine that we were the 1475 01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:52,120 Speaker 1: NIH is funding research in Wuhan in order to detect 1476 01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,520 Speaker 1: a pandemic early so that it could stop the spread 1477 01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,960 Speaker 1: of that pandemic. A pandemic can start anywhere in the world. 1478 01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,920 Speaker 1: It happened to start within just a few miles of 1479 01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:07,720 Speaker 1: this lab. And if they did not accidentally produce this pandemic, 1480 01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:11,920 Speaker 1: it happened right underneath their noses, walking distance from their lab, 1481 01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,920 Speaker 1: and they weren't able to prevent it. So if even 1482 01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:18,840 Speaker 1: in that scenario, that funding doesn't prevent a pandemic, how 1483 01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:21,320 Speaker 1: is it going to stop a pandemic? If if it's 1484 01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:24,760 Speaker 1: if there's some natural origin somewhere else. And so I'm 1485 01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,280 Speaker 1: curious when you're in the White House press room with 1486 01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:32,360 Speaker 1: other White House reporters whether or not they see that contradiction, 1487 01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,360 Speaker 1: and they and they're concerned about, you know, whether or 1488 01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,280 Speaker 1: not the White House is kind of slow walking into 1489 01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:41,040 Speaker 1: a into another one. Ryan's getting a call from Eco 1490 01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:45,200 Speaker 1: Health Alliances right now. Peter, doesA just come first of all, Ryan, 1491 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:46,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds a lot to me like you're 1492 01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,320 Speaker 1: questioning science and that's not something that you should do. No, 1493 01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:54,280 Speaker 1: in all seriousness, Look, one would expect that there would 1494 01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,519 Speaker 1: be more of a broad conversation about the prudence of 1495 01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,240 Speaker 1: doing this type of research. And that's why I actually 1496 01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,240 Speaker 1: really appreciate the straight answer to a straightforward question that 1497 01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:08,800 Speaker 1: Kirby gave me. He's laid out the administration's argument on that, 1498 01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:10,920 Speaker 1: and you know, because of that, people on both sides 1499 01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:15,840 Speaker 1: of this can either agree or disagree. But other than 1500 01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:19,120 Speaker 1: some of the really emotionally charged arguments that we've seen 1501 01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:22,519 Speaker 1: during the pandemic, no one has said, all right, you know, 1502 01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:26,479 Speaker 1: let's actually take a moment and show why this does matter, 1503 01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:30,000 Speaker 1: going back to that fundamental question of how much risk 1504 01:25:30,120 --> 01:25:34,160 Speaker 1: are we willing to accept. You know, if this in 1505 01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:38,160 Speaker 1: fact did come from you know, that lab in Wuhan, 1506 01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:40,880 Speaker 1: then it would seem all right, show me the counterfactual, 1507 01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,160 Speaker 1: show me the pandemics that perhaps you stopped, or or 1508 01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,880 Speaker 1: the illnesses that you somehow lessened. And I think that 1509 01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:52,480 Speaker 1: as a result of you know, first the FBI analysis, 1510 01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:54,840 Speaker 1: now the Department of Energy, there is more of a 1511 01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:59,400 Speaker 1: willingness by the press to take these questions seriously. And frankly, 1512 01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:02,960 Speaker 1: you know your show has the receipts on this. A 1513 01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,519 Speaker 1: number of corporate media outlets they said, all right, you know, 1514 01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:11,840 Speaker 1: we have our we have our our narrative here, we're 1515 01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,559 Speaker 1: not strained from it. And uh, you know, I think 1516 01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:16,760 Speaker 1: that that's a tremendous disservice because some of the things 1517 01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:18,879 Speaker 1: that we've seen come out of reporting of the interception 1518 01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:22,200 Speaker 1: and BuzzFeed is that a lot of these scientists who said, uh, 1519 01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:26,040 Speaker 1: you know this is this is naturally occurring in private. 1520 01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:29,080 Speaker 1: Uh you know, the authors of the Nature magazine letter, 1521 01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,040 Speaker 1: they were saying, wellether, it's a fifty to fifty chance 1522 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,400 Speaker 1: whether or not it was the product of a of 1523 01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:35,640 Speaker 1: a lab. And they were getting tax per dollars for 1524 01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:39,840 Speaker 1: making that discrepancy in public and private, which is just 1525 01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:42,640 Speaker 1: shameful in and of itself. Let's move on to a 1526 01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,719 Speaker 1: new interview that Brett Behar conducted with FBI Director Christopher 1527 01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:49,120 Speaker 1: Ray where this came up. We can play the clip 1528 01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:54,000 Speaker 1: now an energy study that says it's likely to have 1529 01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:57,240 Speaker 1: come from a lab leak, although the confidence slow it 1530 01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:02,080 Speaker 1: cites the FBI. What is the determination by the FBI? So, 1531 01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,600 Speaker 1: as you note, Brett, the FBI has for quite some 1532 01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:11,040 Speaker 1: time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are 1533 01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:15,559 Speaker 1: most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan. That aired 1534 01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,280 Speaker 1: on Tuesday night, Philip is there, do you have any 1535 01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:20,320 Speaker 1: sense as you're talking to people in the White House 1536 01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,840 Speaker 1: that there's tension between the FBI and the White House, 1537 01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,080 Speaker 1: which is continuing to use this line that there is 1538 01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,479 Speaker 1: no consensus, which is true, there is no consensus that 1539 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:33,040 Speaker 1: it was a lab leak, despite the fact that there 1540 01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:34,960 Speaker 1: does seem to be a fact pattern in one direction. 1541 01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,080 Speaker 1: Is there at tension between the White House and the 1542 01:27:37,120 --> 01:27:40,479 Speaker 1: FBI the Department of Energy this week on this question 1543 01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:43,599 Speaker 1: or are they sort of working together and dealing with it. Yeah, 1544 01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm not certain why the Department of Energy decided to 1545 01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:48,559 Speaker 1: leak that report right the Wall Street Journal at this moment. 1546 01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,800 Speaker 1: Later during that same interview, Ray says flat out though, 1547 01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:56,200 Speaker 1: that the Chinese are being less than helpful, less than 1548 01:27:56,240 --> 01:28:02,599 Speaker 1: forthright in you know, their analysis of the initial situation. 1549 01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:04,719 Speaker 1: You know, they're not helping investigators get to the bottom 1550 01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,360 Speaker 1: of this. And I think that that is hugely significant 1551 01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:10,800 Speaker 1: because the administration has said, you know, we're not going 1552 01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:12,840 Speaker 1: to be able to really have a clear sense of 1553 01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:17,040 Speaker 1: where this started until the Chinese began cooperating. And when 1554 01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,360 Speaker 1: you used to press them on this question of you know, 1555 01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:22,439 Speaker 1: did the President actually bring this up personally with g 1556 01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:26,280 Speaker 1: did he press him to be more transparent, they wouldn't answer. 1557 01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,120 Speaker 1: What we heard from the White House last you know, 1558 01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:32,320 Speaker 1: just this week though, is that Kirby said that President 1559 01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:35,839 Speaker 1: Biden actually pressed g personally when they were in Bali 1560 01:28:36,240 --> 01:28:39,640 Speaker 1: to be more transparent, to cooperate more. I think the 1561 01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:42,160 Speaker 1: fact of the matter is, though we have a good 1562 01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:45,679 Speaker 1: sense of what the Chinese motivation is here, and they're 1563 01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:47,599 Speaker 1: probably not going to cooperate. And so I think that 1564 01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:51,280 Speaker 1: as the question remains open, I think that tension will 1565 01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:53,680 Speaker 1: also remain within the administration and as many as the 1566 01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:55,800 Speaker 1: researcher many of the research will tell you too that 1567 01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,360 Speaker 1: the US is still not being completely transparent about that. 1568 01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:01,600 Speaker 1: There are still things know that the that the n 1569 01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,799 Speaker 1: i H is holding and other research laboratories are holding 1570 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,960 Speaker 1: that could shed some light on it. So so the 1571 01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:14,240 Speaker 1: blaming China at this point does strike me as related 1572 01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:16,000 Speaker 1: to the timing. I mean, do you think that this 1573 01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:19,000 Speaker 1: is just all right, Well, this whole balloon thing was embarrassing, 1574 01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,679 Speaker 1: uh and we're annoyed at the way that the Chinese 1575 01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:24,720 Speaker 1: did this, uh egg all over our face. We can't 1576 01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:27,800 Speaker 1: even find their balloons after we shot them down. So 1577 01:29:28,200 --> 01:29:30,640 Speaker 1: the depths of Huron like we get let the let 1578 01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:32,840 Speaker 1: the Energy Department put their thing out there as it 1579 01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:35,919 Speaker 1: was in CNN, which you know, it was a CNN 1580 01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,360 Speaker 1: report that the Energy Department, right, but I think they 1581 01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:41,439 Speaker 1: I think pretty sure they had the scoop on that one. 1582 01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:43,720 Speaker 1: I believe the Wall Street Journal is the one that 1583 01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:45,519 Speaker 1: that got all of us. I think got it first. 1584 01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,360 Speaker 1: But I mean the journal got it first in in 1585 01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:49,640 Speaker 1: in what I've seen. But you're right, I mean the 1586 01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:52,720 Speaker 1: political motivations here, obvious Republicans are always going to want 1587 01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,639 Speaker 1: to tie bad things around the neck of Beijing and 1588 01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,840 Speaker 1: the Biden administration after they were humiliated with balloon Gate. 1589 01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:04,720 Speaker 1: I think that they also, you know, perhaps face the 1590 01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:08,599 Speaker 1: same temptation. We've seen a confluence of both Republican and 1591 01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,599 Speaker 1: democratic concerns when it comes to China, and perhaps that's 1592 01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:16,360 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why what was verboten just a 1593 01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:18,760 Speaker 1: couple of years ago to talk about is now seen 1594 01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:21,720 Speaker 1: as you know, a very real possibility. Well, and if 1595 01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,080 Speaker 1: there is a lab lak, if that, let's just say 1596 01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:26,720 Speaker 1: that that's true, we're implicated in that, and the gain 1597 01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:31,040 Speaker 1: of function is implicated in that. And so it sounded 1598 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:33,519 Speaker 1: to me like John Kirby didn't really want to answer 1599 01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,439 Speaker 1: the question that you asked. He did, though to your point, 1600 01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:39,160 Speaker 1: he did ultimately give that answer. He said, you know, basically, 1601 01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:41,439 Speaker 1: it's a fancy way of saying, yes, we believe that 1602 01:30:41,439 --> 01:30:44,639 Speaker 1: gain of function can be done safely and securely, but 1603 01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:48,080 Speaker 1: they don't seem to really want to confront that head on. Yeah, 1604 01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:52,639 Speaker 1: even before the pandemic, this was massively controversial among scientists 1605 01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:56,840 Speaker 1: and academics that are that this is going to be 1606 01:30:56,880 --> 01:31:02,000 Speaker 1: even more charged now that you have a million Americans 1607 01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:04,120 Speaker 1: dead as a result. I mean that goes without saying. 1608 01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:07,439 Speaker 1: And Chris Ray talked about that, and what's troublesome is 1609 01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:10,960 Speaker 1: how quickly the nonsense propaganda works. It's works its way 1610 01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,200 Speaker 1: into this and moving away from a genuine kind of 1611 01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,200 Speaker 1: intellectual exploration of of how this happens that we can 1612 01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:19,559 Speaker 1: prevent it from happening again. Chris Ray goes on to 1613 01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:22,000 Speaker 1: say in that in that clip, he says, and you 1614 01:31:22,040 --> 01:31:24,439 Speaker 1: know there there was you know, there was a Chinese 1615 01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:28,880 Speaker 1: military operation with the end it killed ended up killing 1616 01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:31,080 Speaker 1: millions of Americans, as as it is the intent of 1617 01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,400 Speaker 1: that kind of an operations. You know, some quote along 1618 01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:37,840 Speaker 1: those lines. It's like, so immediately going in this uber 1619 01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:43,320 Speaker 1: hawkish direction without raising without asking the question of Okay, well, 1620 01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:47,280 Speaker 1: you're saying that this lab was a Chinese military operational 1621 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:49,400 Speaker 1: the intent of killing millions of Americans? Why were why 1622 01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:52,360 Speaker 1: was the US funding it? Right? Like that? Yeah, that'd 1623 01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:54,960 Speaker 1: be kind of a basic follow up question if was 1624 01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:57,439 Speaker 1: it our intent then to kill millions of Americans? Right? 1625 01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:01,599 Speaker 1: And even even as more information has has been released 1626 01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:04,120 Speaker 1: as a result of Foyas and that we've been able 1627 01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:07,320 Speaker 1: to review some of these leaked emails, doctor Anthony Fauci 1628 01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,599 Speaker 1: continues to stand by what he told UH lawmakers, which 1629 01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,240 Speaker 1: is the NIH has not ever funded gain a function 1630 01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:17,800 Speaker 1: research at the woe Hunds student virology. Certainly, you know, 1631 01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:21,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of new information that counters that, but 1632 01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:25,280 Speaker 1: he's fudging the definition. Yes, yeah, that the definition. There's 1633 01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:27,640 Speaker 1: been a lot of games that have been played UH 1634 01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,559 Speaker 1: in in the last couple of months and years. But 1635 01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:34,400 Speaker 1: I think that even before we get to the question 1636 01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:38,080 Speaker 1: of intent, of whether or not this was some science 1637 01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,240 Speaker 1: experiment that you know, was designed to harm people, I 1638 01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:43,040 Speaker 1: think that, you know, we should be able to have 1639 01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,160 Speaker 1: a more basic conversation, which is, even in the best 1640 01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:49,599 Speaker 1: case scenario, is this prudent and that's why, you know, 1641 01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:52,640 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to see the answer that the Biden administration 1642 01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:56,680 Speaker 1: comes up with. Yeah. Yeah. And the problem with kind 1643 01:32:56,720 --> 01:33:00,640 Speaker 1: of lying about this and and suppressing an honest investigation 1644 01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:03,759 Speaker 1: into it is because then it does open the door 1645 01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:06,360 Speaker 1: for other people to then push it even further. Because 1646 01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:08,679 Speaker 1: now if you say, now, if you say, well, the FBI, 1647 01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,120 Speaker 1: Department of Energy, there's the other intelligence agencies say it 1648 01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:13,000 Speaker 1: actually may have come from this lab, then you're going 1649 01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:15,439 Speaker 1: to have people even further out who are like, okay, well, 1650 01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:17,840 Speaker 1: then I think it was actually intentional and this was 1651 01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:20,639 Speaker 1: a bioweapons program and it was released it was released intentionally. 1652 01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:23,360 Speaker 1: And then and then the you know, people don't have 1653 01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:27,120 Speaker 1: an authority to come in and say, well, no, we okay, 1654 01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,760 Speaker 1: we were wrong the last two or three years about 1655 01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:32,280 Speaker 1: what we were saying, but now believe us when we 1656 01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:34,040 Speaker 1: tell you that we believe that this was an accident, 1657 01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:36,639 Speaker 1: which is which is my belief. I believe it was. 1658 01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,000 Speaker 1: It was released accidentally. There's I don't see any evidence 1659 01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:43,080 Speaker 1: that that it was done purposefully. But when you have 1660 01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:46,200 Speaker 1: no when there's no credibility left, it opens the door 1661 01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:48,559 Speaker 1: for people to believe that. And then might move us 1662 01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:51,439 Speaker 1: closer to some type of hostility, which and how many 1663 01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:54,200 Speaker 1: times do we have to relive this episode that we 1664 01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:57,559 Speaker 1: have during the pandemic. Right, obviously all of our bias 1665 01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:00,640 Speaker 1: is towards more transparency, But when you were not forthright 1666 01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:03,599 Speaker 1: with the American public, and if you hedge, whether it's 1667 01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,919 Speaker 1: a noble lie or it's an insidious one, that creates 1668 01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:12,960 Speaker 1: space for individuals to assume the worst case scenario, to 1669 01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:18,120 Speaker 1: pump things up to more than they actually are. And 1670 01:34:18,160 --> 01:34:20,920 Speaker 1: that is, you know, the enemy of reasonable discourse, and 1671 01:34:21,080 --> 01:34:24,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't serve anyone. Well, that's why I think that 1672 01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:27,559 Speaker 1: you know, if you give a straight answer, even to 1673 01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:32,439 Speaker 1: a controversial question, that provides, you know, the framework for 1674 01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:36,760 Speaker 1: an honest discussion rather than something that gets taken away 1675 01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,360 Speaker 1: by both the left and the right. My last question 1676 01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:41,800 Speaker 1: is just in terms of the funding, whether it's domestically 1677 01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:43,880 Speaker 1: or internationally, because it is the point you made earlier 1678 01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:46,640 Speaker 1: to pick up on the safe and secure designation that 1679 01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:49,960 Speaker 1: Kirby says. We're able to make and do this safely 1680 01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:52,080 Speaker 1: and securely gain a function research, but do it in 1681 01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:56,200 Speaker 1: a contained and responsible way. Would any of that involve 1682 01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:00,320 Speaker 1: foreign funding? Still, you know diverting in this byzantine way 1683 01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:05,160 Speaker 1: to this grantee that then some contracts this lab overseas. 1684 01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,639 Speaker 1: Are there safeguards for where this work can be done 1685 01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:13,280 Speaker 1: in the Biden administration's opinion, does that involve like keeping 1686 01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:16,760 Speaker 1: this domestic or banning foreign funding in any way. So 1687 01:35:16,840 --> 01:35:20,040 Speaker 1: the new recommendations that are in front of the White 1688 01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:22,280 Speaker 1: House Office of Science and Technology, we're going to see 1689 01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:24,439 Speaker 1: which ones they actually sign off on and what makes 1690 01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:27,680 Speaker 1: the final cut. I'm absolutely interested to see whether or 1691 01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:32,320 Speaker 1: not there are any prohibitions on domestic versus international funding. Certainly, 1692 01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:34,599 Speaker 1: you know that Republicans are going to raise a stink 1693 01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:37,679 Speaker 1: over this based off of what we've been learning about 1694 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:40,640 Speaker 1: EcoHealth potentially being used as an intermediary for some of 1695 01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:44,960 Speaker 1: this type of research. But I think that at the 1696 01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:47,920 Speaker 1: end of the day, there's going to be a strong 1697 01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:53,280 Speaker 1: incentive for the administration not to do anything that all 1698 01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:57,160 Speaker 1: looks like it could contribute again to a potential once 1699 01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:58,640 Speaker 1: in a central pandemic. I think that they are going 1700 01:35:58,680 --> 01:36:01,519 Speaker 1: to be much more cautious, not only when it comes 1701 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:05,280 Speaker 1: to research here in this country, but certainly cautious about 1702 01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:08,400 Speaker 1: sending an American dollars elsewhere at least that's what I 1703 01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:10,920 Speaker 1: would hope. Well, you can read Philip's story in Real 1704 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,439 Speaker 1: Claire Politics. You can follow his work there as well. 1705 01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:16,360 Speaker 1: Philip Wegman, White House Reporter for RCP, thank you so 1706 01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:18,599 Speaker 1: much for joining Counterpoints, Thank you for having me, Thanks 1707 01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:20,160 Speaker 1: for coming by. See you in the White House press er. 1708 01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:21,880 Speaker 1: I've been there a while and start coming back their 1709 01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:24,040 Speaker 1: buds in the pressure right. Well, that does it for 1710 01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:26,519 Speaker 1: today's edition of Counterpoints. We're on the super fun two 1711 01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:28,719 Speaker 1: shot here in the tight camera. There you go, Ryan 1712 01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,120 Speaker 1: that you still have a little bit of a fish hangover, 1713 01:36:31,160 --> 01:36:35,519 Speaker 1: I imagine, But I hope that feels great. Well ever 1714 01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:38,720 Speaker 1: felt better, I believe that. Actually, we'll be back next 1715 01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:41,559 Speaker 1: Wednesday with more Counterpoints. Thanks so much for tuning in. 1716 01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:42,360 Speaker 1: I see you guys in