WEBVTT - EXCLUSIVE: Blake Horstmann Interview, Part 2 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.640 Hey, guys, welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Alie 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:10.200 and I'm here with Rachel's right. Hey. Hey, So we 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.239 aired the first half of our interview with Blake and 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:17.000 our last podcast, but it was there was so much 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.080 to talk about we could not fit it into one podcast. Yeah, 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.600 it was really a big one. It was really in depth, 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.759 but we had more questions and we know you guys 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:26.720 probably did too, so we really wanted to explore that. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.000 So we thank you so much for tuning in. But 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.080 we have more today. We have our part two of 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:33.720 our exclusive interview with Blake. Yeah, and I'm just so 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.720 appreciative because Blake literally flew all the way to la 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.959 from Denver just to talk, just to talk to us, 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.519 nobody else. This is a completely exclusive interview. You're not 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.400 going to hear from Blake on any other podcast, just 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.760 right here on Bachelor Happy Hour. And I know Rachel, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.080 like we both know, especially from last week, like this 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.480 is not easy for him. No, not at all. And 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.360 to piggyback on that, Blake's not the only one who 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.960 flew out here. I flew out here, yeah, just so 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:06.720 we could all be here together. But I wanted Blake 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.240 to be as comfortable as possible in talking to us, 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:11.240 and I wanted him to see that we were here 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.200 for him and that we were just trying to understand 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.800 his side of the story. And so I'm happy to 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:17.920 be here, truly excited to talk to him, and I 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.280 know you are too, Ali. So right after this, we're 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:21.960 going to have part two of our interview with Blake, 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:28.040 So you guys don't go anywhere. I think where we 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.360 want to start right now is with kalin And the 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:36.280 reason being is that your description of your relationship with 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:42.559 Kalen is drastically different than her description of your relationship. Why. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.479 I mean, I think and I kind of talked about this, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:47.560 and I think a lot of it has to do 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.760 with some miscommunication, some real miscommunication, because I don't want 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.520 to sit here and disregard her feelings, because like if 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.160 she felt she was really really into me, but she 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:58.680 just didn't communicate it, and you know, and I didn't 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.520 communicate with her, like that's all obviously. Why maybe it 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:03.960 seems like we had a different idea of what our 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.280 relationship was, because that's clearly something we should have done better, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.520 because I had no idea. You know, she was saying 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.200 things that I mean, I had no idea she felt 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:15.440 the way she did because of the things she was saying. 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.280 I'm gonna stop you right there, because she obviously didn't 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.160 feel that strongly about you because she was trying to 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.480 be the bachelorette. She was in conversations to be the bachelorette. 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.320 So I know right now, Blake, you're a nice guy, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.080 and I can tell that just by sitting here with you. 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:33.800 I mean, you know, this podcast is just starting, but 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.359 we had the whole other one where we've talked to 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.680 you for a while. Now, you gotta be a little pissed, 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.560 right because she was trying to be the bachelorette, very 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.080 openly to you about it. So you're thinking you're not 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:47.840 into me. If you were really then into me, why 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:54.400 would you be doing this? So what happened? I don't know. Honestly, 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.919 I was angry, and there's still a little anger in me. 0:02:58.000 --> 0:02:59.600 I don't I don't try and hold on to anger 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.919 because it's not good for anybody. But I was angry. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:04.600 Why all of a sudden, you know, she was saying 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:05.800 one thing, and then all of a sudden, the second 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.919 she got on camera, suddenly it was something else, And 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.720 That's where my frustration kind of comes with that whole 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.800 ordeal is you know, she was saying it's people say, 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:15.919 you know, when a girl says she's okay, she's fine. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.120 I think Jordan said it on those that doesn't mean 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:19.760 she's not. And I get that, but at the same time, 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.120 like not only was I supposed to read her mind, 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.440 but I was supposed to ignore what she was actually 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.640 saying and then read her mind. You know, It's like 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.560 I just wish we had communicated more and I'm not. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.200 You're right, like she wanted to be the bachelorette while 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.840 we were talking and everything was fine leading right up 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.720 to Paradise. Like if she was mad at me, like 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:38.120 she had three months to do it, you know, she 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.640 had three months to say something and she didn't. And 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.240 so that's where my frustration really comes from. I guess. Yeah, 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.360 when you when she confronted you on the beach, after 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.760 she had gone around the beach, had talked about you 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:52.920 and all of that stuff, and then she finally came 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.920 and said something to you. You could see the shock 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.800 on your face. Oh my gosh, you you're not an 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.600 act blake, You're not, and the look on your face 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.240 it was like you were floored, and we talked about 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.360 it on our podcast. We talked about it right here 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.200 on Bats Are Happy I and we talked about how, 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.440 you know, you seem so shocked and things just didn't 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.280 add up. And I remember I was even saying, from 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.960 what she's saying to what she's doing, it just doesn't 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.440 add up. And we were all confused, like how could 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.800 they have such different versions of what happened from that conversation, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:35.279 and then the text messages came right. I mean, we 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.560 have to talk about it because it was an issue, 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:40.680 and I know you talked about it on the finale, 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.120 and I'll be honest, watching the finale and having you 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.080 watching you sit in the hot seat, it was tough. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.000 It was tough to watch, so I can only imagine 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.440 how hard it was for you sitting there. And I 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.680 know you've had to talk about this, which seems like 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:58.719 over and over again, and I think, what I don't 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.919 want to ask the same questions Chris Harrison asked, We 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.400 don't want to go there. But one thing that was 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.120 said from Kaylin and I've actually heard this too, is 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:12.520 that you were talking or considering about releasing these text 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.920 messages from the moment you saw that episode air, because 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.320 it wasn't what you believe to be the truth, and 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.560 you consulted with people, You talk to people, even even 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.960 the people who were actually involved Kaitlin yourself, and Dean 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.400 said you talked to him as well. So what made 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.600 you ultimately say, you know what, against what everybody else 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.359 is saying, Because it seemed like everybody told you no, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:39.239 you said, yes, I'm going to release them. Yeah, so 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:45.359 I think Kaylyn used the word pre premeditated, So yeah, Kaylin, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.080 you know she's the word premeditated and premeditated. He was 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:49.880 just a fancy way of saying. You know, I thought 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.919 really hard about it, because I did. I it was 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.839 such a hard decision for me that night when I 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.960 released those text messages, I really was, I was breathing 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.240 into a paperback, like it was incredibly difficult for me. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.719 And a decision like that, you do reach out for advice, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.400 and especially advice for people who have been in situations 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.640 like men in batnation. And it was a lot of 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:16.160 people they didn't even really say no, don't do it. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:18.159 They were like, if you do this, know what the 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.520 consequences are. That kind of thing like that's and I 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.320 did reach out, and some, you know, there were a 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.839 few that were like you had, like the things she's saying, 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:27.840 like you have to do it, Like I don't see 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.719 any other choice. And so when people say, you know, 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.680 why did you was premeditator or whatever? It was such 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.840 a hard decision for me. I wanted to reach out, 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:37.680 and I wanted to talk to other people, and I 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:41.000 wanted to see if anybody else had any other ideas. 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.200 I want to see if there was any other avenue 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:44.719 I could take. And at the end of the day, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:46.960 as hard as it was, I felt like that was 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.159 the only thing I could do to get truth, my 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.120 truth out there. And because I didn't know a lot 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:55.640 of things she was saying when I was down there. 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.760 Had I know she was saying that I was Silencinger 0:06:58.040 --> 0:06:59.919 and all these things, I would have addressed it all 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.480 on the beach with her. But I had no idea 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.800 she was saying those things. And so when I watched it, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.960 I was shook. I was shocked. It was just I 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.760 couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe she was saying 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.720 the things she was saying. You said in the reunion special, 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.920 And I'm paraphrasing here, but something about if you hadn't 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.400 released them, people wouldn't know the truth. Do you still 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.680 feel that way? Um? I mean, it's so hard to 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.360 say because I don't so kayl When we were at 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.080 the reunion and Kaylin was like, you know, I've made 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:30.600 some mistakes, that kind of thing, I don't. I don't 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.120 know necessarily if she would have said those things had 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:34.680 I not done what I did, I think she maybe 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.840 would have stuck to her guns. And I think with 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:40.960 having if I had just come to the reunion and 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.160 been like I have evidence, like, I don't think that 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:45.520 would have been that would have been an empty you know, 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:46.920 I don't think that would have done anything. I really 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:48.720 don't because I don't think anybody would have believed me. 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.720 But you don't think it was wrong. So I listened up. Yes, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.040 releasing she was wrong, but two wrongs don't make it right. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.560 But she was wrong had I not done what I did. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.480 But just because somebody is wrong doesn't make doing something 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.920 wrong right. What you're saying, yeah too, Yeah, I know 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.280 what you're saying. But like you wouldn't have known that 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.200 she did anything wrong unless I did what I did. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.760 Like two words would have made a right but she 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:17.720 wouldn't have You would have known she didn't anything wrong. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:19.600 That's the kind of the point I'm making is if 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.960 you're gonna say, Blake, you shouldn't have released those text 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.160 messages or whatnot. You know, if people want to say 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:25.440 and I knew I was gonna get hate and if 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:26.680 you want to hate me, but then you also have 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:28.520 to look at what the text message showed. And then 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:33.040 you got to say, well, Kaylin, obviously you know did wrong. Yeah, 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.560 I am not excusing Kaylin. I do like Kylin for 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.280 different reason. I think Kaylyn is a girl who's learning 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.199 about herself and continuing to learn about herself. And that's 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.640 just a really nice way of saying she has some 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:48.200 issues she needs to work out. Um let me say, 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.880 let me say this though I I do, I do. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.920 I am sorry, like I am sorry that it ended 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.400 like it all ended. It came to this, It came 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.160 to like I am sorry when I released. One of 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.120 the reasons I also released are sorry deleted the text 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.640 messages was like I said, I was having a complete breakdown. 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.599 I was breathing into a paper bag, and all of 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.360 a sudden I took a step back and I was 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.280 I get emotional. I was like, Klin is feeling this 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.480 way right now probably and that killed me. And I 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.360 was like, I was like, I can't believe I did 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.319 what I'm feeling right now. I just did to somebody 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.600 else and that hurt and that sucked. And so that's 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.400 why I did suddenly take the text messages down. And 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.280 I did have, you know, a moment to step back 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:29.839 from everything be like, ah, what did I just do? 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.400 I had. I did have that moment, and so that 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:34.720 was hard and I am sorry that it hurt her 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.080 the way it did. It is something that you know, 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:39.280 I wish it didn't come to that. I really do. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:41.720 I wish it didn't come to that shit you're gonna 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:48.760 make like, I mean, so god, this is ohoo, okay, 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.440 before I get emotional, look at us two tours. It's 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:56.120 just connecting on it. Okay. I'm trying to Virgo get 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.920 I think, yeah, yes, you k okay, Virgo, we get along. Well. 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:02.720 I'm very sensitive, so I think if people forget that, 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.800 and sometimes I'm like, very harsh, but I think what 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.320 hurt when I was watching you sit in that chair 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.080 is listen, Ali and I agree on this. We don't 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.920 agree with what you did, but it doesn't mean that 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.160 I don't understand why you did it. Okay, there's a 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:27.160 difference between that I understand why you felt backed in 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.000 a corner and you did what you did what I 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.319 have done it? Probably not, but I can understand why 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:34.680 somebody would do that. The thing is, and this is 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.680 a question that you posed to Ali, would Kaylin have 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:42.080 admitted her mistakes? Would she have come forward and said, hey, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.840 I lied, apologize the same way that she did on 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.760 the reunion. I had an emotional reaction. I overreacted and 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.040 I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that what she had 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.160 done that? Probably not? And why do I say that? 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.520 It's something that my dad always says, history has predictive value, 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.520 And when you look at the history of Kaylin, sometimes 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.520 stuff just adds up and you just kind of have 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.160 to accept this is kind of who this person is. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.760 From the paget stuff to the comments that she was 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.160 making on the bus, It's like people keep saying that 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.400 things that contradict what Kaylin is saying. And how many 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.640 times do you have to start hearing people say that 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.080 you're lying before you acknowledge that this person really just 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.800 has trouble telling the truth. It is what it is. 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.240 And I know people came so hard on me when 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:27.920 I was talking about Kaylin, and maybe I could have 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.880 phrased things nicely. But it's not that I'm not supporting women, 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.240 as people said, I'm just not going to support bad behavior, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.400 and I believe in holding people accountable for the things 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.760 that they do. And what sucks for you, Blake, is 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.120 when you release the text messages, and as you admitted 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.800 you violated her privacy, it was a little bit of 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.240 a step lower than what she did, and it gave 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.840 her the scapegoat to hide behind her pretty face and 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.240 her tears and hang her hat on what you did 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.160 in releasing the text messages. But the truth is is 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:01.000 that you know if you put if I put myself 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.640 in your shoes, Alie, and you put yourself in Blake shoes, 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.920 how would you feel if you knew the truth and 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:11.280 somebody is out there lying not once, not twice, but 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.600 multiple times to multiple people, and you know you have 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.280 this truth. Millions of people yea, and millions right sorry 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.240 on the beach multiple once it aired like you said, Ali, 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.840 You're right, millions of people and you know your reputation 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.360 is at stake, and the same way that she said 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.679 on the reunion, she was emotional and so she had 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.800 this huge reaction. You were emotional, Blake, and you had 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.680 this huge, huge reaction. Again not saying it's right, but 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.960 people have to understand where you're coming from. And speaking 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.640 from personal experience, I've had people in this franchise lie 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:52.480 on me outright, tell lies multiple people multiple times, and 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:57.960 I have evidence that could like vindicate me, and I 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.000 am labeled as a bitch while other people are labeled 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.520 as an angel. And it takes it's hard to not 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.720 want to say, actually, you guys, I'm not this way, 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.480 this is actually what happened, and and then you have 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.240 to backtrack and say, who am I trying to prove 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.000 myself to? You know? Is it worth it to go there? 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.360 And I think you know that at this point, like 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.840 in hindsight, is it safe to say you probably would 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.720 have done it a little bit differently? Yeah, yeah, no, 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.040 it is, it is, And it was I don't want 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:26.880 so this this is for a thing because you're saying 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.880 like this emotion, like I had this emotional reaction, and 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.599 I did, and I knew like I was going to 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.559 get a lot of hate and maybe like I wish 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:36.800 there was another way, Like I wish there would have 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.080 been another way that I could have done it. And yeah, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.360 I mean, yeah, I think it was wrong. I definitely 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.000 think it was wrong. But I don't know that I 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:47.920 wouldn't have done it if I were in your shoes, 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.199 And that's the truth. So that's the truth. So I 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.000 do think it was wrong. But I think I'm human 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:53.680 and I make mistakes and I do things that are wrong. 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.400 Sometimes I can't imagine being in that moment, knowing what 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.080 you were sitting on and just taking it like I 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.679 I don't know. I just don't know if I would that. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.720 But this is the thing, when is sharing private conversations, 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.040 private text messages okay? And what are they not okay? 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.160 Because I was gonna put this out there. JPJ and 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.840 Derek had a big thing on the season where supposedly 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.760 Derek said that he slept with women that follow him 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.600 on Instagram and JPJ just told everybody and called him out. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.520 That was a private conversation. Should JPJ now have brought 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.200 up that conversation because Derek didn't want to have that 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.400 conversation in the public. Do you see what I mean. 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.200 So it's like but it's he said, she said, Blake 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.840 showed that it's not he said, she said, this is 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.880 what it is. Okay, well it's facts. This is what 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:36.840 it is. So do we think it would have been better? 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:38.480 I mean, I don't even know if it's worth it 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.400 to go here, But like if you had just said 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.160 what she said in the text messages rather than screenshotting them, 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.880 I think if and we actually think we reset this. 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:48.640 I don't remember if it actually aired on the podcast. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.600 Well we talked about this. I think that if you 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.640 would have waited, maybe to the reunion and tried and 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.680 kept giving her a chance to tell the truth, and 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.280 then you said, Kaylin, you know I have these messages 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.920 we about this. You know I have this. I'm gonna 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.000 ask you again. I'm begging you. I've waited. It's been 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.840 weeks and I've waited for you to speak your truth 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.320 and you haven't yet. I think maybe you know. But again, 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.520 that's that's how it could have been called Rachel, but 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.920 next time called Rachel. But what I will say is 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.840 when we asked the question, would Kaylin have said the truth? 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.520 You know, would she have told told the truth to 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.040 be honest. She had an opportunity because when that episode aired, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.480 she saw it. She knew it was going to happen 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.680 right at that point. She could have gone to social 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.760 media in some aspect, or maybe even have texted you, 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.360 Blake and said, you know what I lied. I'm gonna 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.360 say something on the reunion. You know what I wasn't truthful. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.200 I will address it in the reunion something I overreacted, 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.080 the same apology that she gave you with the finale. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.760 At the reunion special, she could have said something along 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.160 those lines. She didn't. She sat silent, and she hid 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.160 behind what we saw on TV. She hid behind, for 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.640 lack of better words, her lies. So again, I don't 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.160 agree with what you did, but I understand the anger 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.880 and the desperation that you felt in that moment, especially 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.960 when you were the guy. And I really want you 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:14.960 to speak to this because I don't think people get this. 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:17.560 You were the guy from back of season. You really 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:22.200 didn't develop any hate except for your dance Moths, which 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.840 I was joy about. You really didn't get like people 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.960 weren't critical of you. You didn't you hadn't experienced that yet, 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.520 and you went from one extreme to the other and 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.360 I'm sure that played into your mindset in how you 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.080 also responded because you weren't prepared for it, you weren't 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.760 used to it. So I want you to speak to 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.040 that because I think that's the darker side of batter 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:50.640 Nation that people don't really talk about. Yeah, I think 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:52.760 I like the word you use it kind of like 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.880 I did feel desperate, Like I did feel some desperation 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.160 because I, yeah, coming off back of season, I didn't 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.080 I didn't get a lot of hate. I didn't and 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.640 so I didn't really know how to deal with that 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.800 and for it to suddenly tsunami on me like that, 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:11.159 and it was a lot for me. And you know, 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.800 no matter what we put on social media, no matter what, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.120 you know, how we talked to people and we're saying 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.160 we feel all right, we feel good, like it does 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.359 just take a little bit to completely make us feel 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.200 like we are we are worthless. And in that moment 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:30.479 I felt so alone and so betrayed in a way too. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.560 I honestly, not not only Calm, but a lot of 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.719 the people on that beach too, because a lot of 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.439 them had acted one way to me. And then I 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:44.560 when I saw it on the show, I saw that 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.439 they were acting a different way on camera instead of 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.280 to my face, and so that was really hard for 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.560 me and feelings as alone as I did, I did 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.640 feel a little bit desperate and being the guy who 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.800 wasn't getting a lot of hate to suddenly everybody like 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.920 everybody hating me, Like there at that point, there's no 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.280 reason for anybody to be on my side, like none 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.280 of my side was heard, Like there was no reason 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.639 for anybody to even kind of give me a break. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.840 And I get it, you know, from what watching the show, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.359 I get why you wouldn't give me a break. And 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.800 so the amount of negativity and the hate and that 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.800 just all of that together, it can it can take 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.240 and I'm not the first person. It can take people 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.919 into a very dark place and a very place that 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.679 I pray that nobody else, you know, really has to 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.720 be in, because it can it can get really bad. Unfortunately, 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:33.600 a lot of people on the show that get all 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.040 the hate go to that place. I know Jed did. Okay, 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.040 but we're not done talking to you yet, so don't 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.680 go anywhere. We've got more coming up right after this. 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.640 I have to ask show. So you spoke to her 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.840 before releasing the text, messages be a text or phone 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.080 what was it? So so actually Dean at first had 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.720 started he texted me and was like, hey, I heard 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.119 you might you know, release text messages something like, you know, 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:01.199 think about that, like think about I wouldn't you know. 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.000 That's the different level of whatever. I can't remember exactly 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:05.520 what we said. That's a different level of stoop Like 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.639 you said, it's kind of stooping. And then all of 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.880 a sudden I got a call from Kayle maybe about 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.760 a half hour before I was going to release them. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:14.680 She called me and she was like, you know, I 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.080 kind of heard what she might do. She was like, 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.800 so what was frustrating about me? But about that phone 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.399 call was she didn't she still didn't really apologize and 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.119 she didn't take ownership. It was a lot of the 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.000 show edited me that kind of thing. It was a 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:31.360 lot of that was a lot of blaming on the show. 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.840 And she's like, let me go on an interview and 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:38.600 just like blame the show. And I was like, I can't, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.680 like I can't trust you to do that. And if 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:41.919