Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2: What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks DJ, Buck
Speaker 2: with you Buck? How are you doing?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 2: DJ?
Speaker 4: I am so excited and I'm excited because we have
Speaker 4: one of our favorite people on today, John Gordon, someone
Speaker 4: who you're really close to, someone who I follow all
Speaker 4: of his stuff, read his books, listen to his podcast.
Speaker 4: I can't wait to just listen to some of the
Speaker 4: nuggets that he's going to drop and impart on us
Speaker 4: as we kind of share his message to the masses.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've had John on before. If you're new though
Speaker 3: and haven't heard any of those conversations, you're gonna enjoy this.
Speaker 3: John Is He's an author, husband, father, author, best selling
Speaker 3: books and look, he talks to people all over the world,
Speaker 3: millions and millions of readers and audience around the world.
Speaker 3: He's the author of The Energy Bus. If you've read
Speaker 3: that book's phenomenal, The Carpenter Training Camp, Power of Positive Leadership,
Speaker 3: Power of a Positive Team, The One Truth, the bazillion books.
Speaker 3: And he's done it with all different folks along the way.
Speaker 3: He's been a mentor and a coach to guys like
Speaker 3: Sean McVay, Dabbos Sweeney, he's done stuff with the Dodgers,
Speaker 3: and Dave Roberts. Eric Spolstra is with the heat like
Speaker 3: he has all these guys that he has poured into about,
Speaker 3: you know, being a positive leader and being a transfer
Speaker 3: transformative leader for their organizations. And it goes well beyond
Speaker 3: sports into the business realm as well. But Buck, anytime
Speaker 3: we get a chance to have him on, we jump
Speaker 3: at the chance.
Speaker 2: They just jump at the chance.
Speaker 4: DJ just so much experience, so many connections, so many
Speaker 4: lessons that he's given and he's learned, and to just
Speaker 4: be able to kind of listen to the encounters that
Speaker 4: he's had with so many great leaders. Look, you can't
Speaker 4: help but be smarter and really be a better leader
Speaker 4: after taking the advice that he gives out and shares
Speaker 4: no doubt.
Speaker 3: So, without further ado, here is our interview, our conversation
Speaker 3: with our buddy John Gordon.
Speaker 5: Well here he is.
Speaker 3: Buck excited to have John back with us.
Speaker 2: John.
Speaker 3: First of all, Man, we appreciate you taking the time
Speaker 3: for us today. Where does life find you these days?
Speaker 5: Great to be back with you, guys.
Speaker 1: I am back in Jacksonville, Florida, Panavidri Beach where I live.
Speaker 1: Just was on the road in Dallas and then Louisiana
Speaker 1: and now back home for a couple of days.
Speaker 2: Well, I want to know, tell me about this event
Speaker 2: that you just had.
Speaker 3: You're constantly speaking all over the country, You're coaching coaches,
Speaker 3: you're coaching leaders in business. But I was intrigued by
Speaker 3: seeing the collection of folks that you had together, including
Speaker 3: Sean McVay and a whole host of others. Tell us
Speaker 3: a little bit about that event and what was accomplished.
Speaker 5: It was really special.
Speaker 1: Years ago, I had a vision for an event called
Speaker 1: Training Camp where I brought together business, leadership, sports, and
Speaker 1: an element of faith based on my book Training Camp,
Speaker 1: and it was a vision. And then I started inviting
Speaker 1: coaches this year to see if they wanted to join
Speaker 1: me and Daniel. I couldn't believe it many of them,
Speaker 1: almost all of them said yes. I was expecting them
Speaker 1: all to say yes. But we had an incredible lineup
Speaker 1: like Dabo Sweeney came, We had Sean McVay, Mac Brown,
Speaker 1: Trend Dilfer, we had Kevin O'Connell, Buzz Williams. It was
Speaker 1: a collection Corey close people, were blown away by Corey
Speaker 1: close to UCLA women's basketball coach. They thought, hey, this
Speaker 1: might be the smartest coach in the room. Actually, is
Speaker 1: what people were saying. Even the male coaches were saying that,
Speaker 1: which is really cool.
Speaker 5: So it was just this great group.
Speaker 1: Of guys all sharing, and they also not just talked
Speaker 1: about like leadership and culture, but also their brokenness.
Speaker 5: They talked about their failures, their mistakes.
Speaker 1: Matt Ruhle talked about how he felt when he left Carolina.
Speaker 5: So the audience was blown away.
Speaker 1: Really many people said it was one of the best
Speaker 1: events they've really ever been to because guys are being
Speaker 1: so raw and real and it was only one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty business leaders in the audience and coaches all
Speaker 1: getting together and sharing, and I know the coaches actually
Speaker 1: loved being around each other and connecting with each other,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of fun. We had a VIP
Speaker 1: dinner of the night before Tim Tebow came by. We
Speaker 1: were all hanging out and sharing and talking. It was
Speaker 1: really special, really great.
Speaker 4: Look, man, it's so inspirational to hear you talk about
Speaker 4: the connections and so many team leaders in the same building.
Speaker 4: How does it feel for you to know that you're
Speaker 4: the connective tissue between so many great leaders around the
Speaker 4: country and so many different things.
Speaker 5: That was really special. I was brought to tears.
Speaker 1: Matthew West was our musical performer, and Matthew West is
Speaker 1: unbelievable and he was playing music and he kicked started
Speaker 1: the day and I literally teared up, thinking, Wow, like
Speaker 1: we've all come together for this. And to see the
Speaker 1: coaches love being around each other and connecting that was
Speaker 1: really special.
Speaker 5: And to know that I had this relationship.
Speaker 1: With each one of them over the years, pouring into them,
Speaker 1: investing in them, helping them and their teams over the years,
Speaker 1: and this was like the one event where they all
Speaker 1: came back to be a part of something I was doing.
Speaker 5: Now, I didn't do.
Speaker 1: This all these years to think one day I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have this training camp event and they were going to
Speaker 1: show up. That's a both said they took away from
Speaker 1: it in terms of, like you build these relationships all
Speaker 1: these years and then these guys came back for this
Speaker 1: event to be a part of it. And I don't
Speaker 1: think it could have happened, you know, any other way,
Speaker 1: but just having all these relationships and them wanted to
Speaker 1: be a part of it with me and then each other.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was a honestly one of the best
Speaker 1: feelings I've ever had in my life. And I realized
Speaker 1: in that moment, like, Wow, what great people that I've
Speaker 1: got to know. These coaches, as you know, are the
Speaker 1: best people, Like they're incredible human beings, great integrity, and
Speaker 1: then to know that we're able to now make this
Speaker 1: impact together. Jim Room, Jim Room, the broadcaster. Jim was like,
Speaker 1: there's something going on here. I don't know what is
Speaker 1: it is. He goes, I've never been in a room
Speaker 1: like this ever in my life. I'm feeling something I
Speaker 1: can't explain. And it's the best room I've ever been
Speaker 1: in in all these years, Jim said. And I got
Speaker 1: up there and I said, hey, Jim, I gotta be
Speaker 1: honest with you. That's the Holy Spirit and the audience
Speaker 1: the audience laughed, and Jim goes, I think it is.
Speaker 5: It was such a cool moment.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: Well, there's there's a whole host of different things I
Speaker 3: want to get into with you, and I've been, you know,
Speaker 3: looking forward to having you on. And one of the
Speaker 3: first ones is it it's somewhat connected to what You're
Speaker 3: just talking about getting these people together and people always
Speaker 3: looking to learn and grow. But I've never asked you
Speaker 3: this question before. Two things, Are all the great coaches coachable?
Speaker 2: And is it?
Speaker 3: Is it something that you've noticed over the years when
Speaker 3: you've interacted with these guys that those guys are at
Speaker 3: the top of the profession. You mentioned some of those guys.
Speaker 3: They are super Bowl champions, National champions. But we always
Speaker 3: talk about players being coachable. How important is it that
Speaker 3: a coach is coachable?
Speaker 5: Daniel, check this out. This is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I didn't even mentioned Billy Donovan was there. Billy Donovan
Speaker 1: reached out to me literally a couple of days before it, said, Hey, John,
Speaker 1: you asked me to come to your event. Guess what
Speaker 1: I can now make it if you still want me. Billy,
Speaker 1: you just got nominated inducted into the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll make I'll make that for you. We'll make time.
Speaker 5: League says this.
Speaker 1: I want to learn from the other guys in the room.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to come learn from them. And he
Speaker 1: sat in the back after he spoke and took notes
Speaker 1: and was writing down what they were saying. Dabos Sweeney
Speaker 1: after his talk was signing some football.
Speaker 5: So he said, hey, guys, guys, can I do this later?
Speaker 1: I want to go hear what Sean has to say,
Speaker 1: and he raced back into the room to listen to Sean.
Speaker 1: This wasn't like where after I'm done speaking, I'm going
Speaker 1: into the green room. These guys wanted to hear from
Speaker 1: each other and learn from each other. And that's a
Speaker 1: characteristic over the years and working with them. They're always
Speaker 1: looking for the edge. They're always looking for something that
Speaker 1: they're missing. Eric Spolsher would always reach out to me
Speaker 1: and say, Hey, John, what am I missing?
Speaker 5: What's new? What are you hearing these days?
Speaker 1: They're always looking for that new idea, that new thing
Speaker 1: that could take their team to the next level.
Speaker 5: And that's what I love about them.
Speaker 1: Like you go to high school, and a lot of
Speaker 1: high school coaches they think they know it all, Like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I don't need to hear that.
Speaker 5: I don't need to learn that.
Speaker 3: I mean that's I mean, that's budd high school football
Speaker 3: coach man.
Speaker 1: Just no care, Yeah, no, curioity, I don't need to
Speaker 1: attend that clinic.
Speaker 5: I've seen it all.
Speaker 1: I've heard all these guys are like literally learning and
Speaker 1: growing and always looking for that that little thing. That's
Speaker 1: why Bill Belichick would always go to the college clinics
Speaker 1: to see what they were saying and talking about the best.
Speaker 5: The best are always striving to get better.
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny, John, because what you're saying, you're
Speaker 4: talking about guys being lifelong learners. But what I'm hearing
Speaker 4: as a coach is I'm hearing the humility that's needed
Speaker 4: to be an elite coach.
Speaker 2: That the elite coaches.
Speaker 4: Are humble enough to know that they don't know at all,
Speaker 4: and they're seeking answers for the things that are unknown
Speaker 4: from other people who've had similar success.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a that's a great point. They're you.
Speaker 1: They're humble enough, they got the umilion, They're humble enough
Speaker 1: to know, Hey, I'm never stopped. I'm never done growing
Speaker 1: the door of greatness. If I think I've arrived, guess what,
Speaker 1: it's going to get slammed in my face. So I
Speaker 1: have to continue to get better, improve and grow. And
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm the same way. I'm learning from
Speaker 1: everyone I can meet. I'm always learning from people. When
Speaker 1: I see speakers, especially these young speakers out there today,
Speaker 1: I'm learning from them.
Speaker 5: You can always learn and grow.
Speaker 3: John is an identity of a team, and we talk
Speaker 3: about culture with you all the time, but the identity
Speaker 3: of a team, how much of that is connected to
Speaker 3: simply the best player on the team and what their
Speaker 3: identity and outlook can be. I know we talk about
Speaker 3: the coach being at the top of the of the
Speaker 3: tree here, but I was talking to a baseball general
Speaker 3: manager the other day and he brought up a great point.
Speaker 3: He was saying that he had starng with somebody else
Speaker 3: in the professional sports world and had brought up this
Speaker 3: question of you know, when you bring someone new into
Speaker 3: your building, what's the key for them being successful? And
Speaker 3: he said, we always they have their their star player,
Speaker 3: their leader. And he said, we need that whoever we
Speaker 3: bring in has to be able to work with that
Speaker 3: star player, that leader. They have to be able to connect.
Speaker 3: And I just had never really thought of it that way.
Speaker 3: You think about the collective, but the emphasis on who
Speaker 3: that key person is. How important is that.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of the research on gritty teams that if
Speaker 1: you have a couple of gritty.
Speaker 5: Guys on that team, that team will be more gritty.
Speaker 1: You don't need every teammate to be a gritty person.
Speaker 1: You need these core guys, these leaders, these transformational leaders,
Speaker 1: And I've never thought of it that way before, Daniel,
Speaker 1: You're right. I mean that one person, if they're a
Speaker 1: transform transformational leader, will impact a lot of people around them. Now,
Speaker 1: they're not the only key, They're not just the only
Speaker 1: one that needs to.
Speaker 5: Be like that.
Speaker 1: You need a couple of guys, You need glue guys,
Speaker 1: you need guys who buy in. But yes, a transformational
Speaker 1: leader is can We've seen that one quarterback who really
Speaker 1: impacts a franchise through their belief, And I think it
Speaker 1: comes down to identity and belief and the transfer of
Speaker 1: that belief. You got the identity who are we and
Speaker 1: who do we believe we are and what do we
Speaker 1: believe we can accomplish. So the identity is really key,
Speaker 1: and that comes down to the belief about yourself and
Speaker 1: about each other. And we know again looking at the NFL,
Speaker 1: there are teams when you get a star quarterback and
Speaker 1: a great coach, you change the identity of that team.
Speaker 1: And a great guy on defense obviously is a huge
Speaker 1: key component. A really transformational figure with the Raven's been
Speaker 1: the same without ray Lewis, I don't think so. You
Speaker 1: need that guy who just walks different, acts different, and
Speaker 1: has that presence about them, radiates to everyone on the
Speaker 1: team and impacts them. You have a special team, and
Speaker 1: you have that, but you also have to have relational equity.
Speaker 1: You have to have connection, You have to have commitment
Speaker 1: amongst each other. That guy has to be likable, also,
Speaker 1: someone they want to follow, someone who brings the team together.
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of factors, but identity and
Speaker 1: belief are key.
Speaker 2: You know, John. This piggybacks off Daniel's question.
Speaker 4: As a coach, sometimes I wonder because when I hear
Speaker 4: the Great Teams talk, you talk about one hundred percent
Speaker 4: buying in, everyone is bought in.
Speaker 2: But then when I stand in front.
Speaker 4: Of my team, maybe eighty to eighty five percent are
Speaker 4: bought in.
Speaker 2: And then you have these other guys.
Speaker 4: When you talk to these guys and they're really open
Speaker 4: and honest, are they able to get one hundred percent
Speaker 4: buy in or do they know that they're going to
Speaker 4: have some guys along the way that don't fully connect
Speaker 4: or buy into everything.
Speaker 2: That we're selling when we're sitting in front of the room.
Speaker 1: I don't think you'll always have one hundred percent buy in,
Speaker 1: but you're trying to get as many people to buy
Speaker 1: in as possible. And if you can get the ninety
Speaker 1: percent ninety five percent, you're doing pretty good. If you
Speaker 1: start to have twenty percent not buying in, that's why
Speaker 1: you got some problems. And it's also who's not buying in?
Speaker 5: And are the.
Speaker 1: People not buying in being energy vampires? And are they noisy?
Speaker 1: Are they gossiping?
Speaker 5: Are they bringing the team down?
Speaker 1: One person can't make a team, but but one person
Speaker 1: could break a team, So that one person who's not
Speaker 1: buying in could really impact the team if they're an
Speaker 1: energy vampire. So I think it depends on who's not
Speaker 1: buying in. There are some people that are just not
Speaker 1: buying in, but they got a contract, but they're quietly
Speaker 1: not buying in. And you got to basically say, I
Speaker 1: know that person's here one more year, let's get through it.
Speaker 5: I would love it if you could.
Speaker 1: Get rid of that guy and find a way to
Speaker 1: get that person to move on, because the more people
Speaker 1: you have buying in, if you have one hundred percent
Speaker 1: buy in, you're gonna be that much more powerful. Everyone
Speaker 1: pulling in the same direction. Pulling on that rope is key.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think we know that not everyone is
Speaker 1: always going to buy in. But figuring out what to
Speaker 1: do with them? Do I isolate them? I do I
Speaker 1: do I allow them to be part of these meetings?
Speaker 1: Do I give them a leadership role? What do I
Speaker 1: do with that person?
Speaker 5: Is really key?
Speaker 3: All right, Buck, let's pause here just for a second.
Speaker 2: We'll get right back to it.
Speaker 3: In our conversation with John Gordon, if I was going
Speaker 3: to ask you, we're in a draft room and we're
Speaker 3: discussing players, and we're going over guys we're going to
Speaker 3: bring into our building. If I told you John, we're
Speaker 3: going to give you one non negotiable on a player
Speaker 3: to come into our building, what would what would John
Speaker 3: Gordon's one non negotiable?
Speaker 2: We are not.
Speaker 3: There's no discussion. If it's this, we're out.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: It has to be see I have too many. But definitely,
Speaker 1: integrity has to be integrity. I mean what you say
Speaker 1: and what you do are in alignment. The word integrity
Speaker 1: comes from the word integer, which means whole and complete.
Speaker 5: So there's no gap in your character.
Speaker 1: You are whole and you are complete, and a leader
Speaker 1: with integrity is a powerful leader. So I would say,
Speaker 1: I want someone with integrity who walks the walk, talks
Speaker 1: to talk, There's no gaps in their character, and you
Speaker 1: know they're going to be steady and consistent. I've been
Speaker 1: thinking of a lot about this in terms of consistency.
Speaker 1: If you think about Nick Saban, why was he so successful?
Speaker 1: He was so consistent. His coaches say that he was
Speaker 1: eating the same candy bar every day time. He's that consistent.
Speaker 1: So even though the players may not have liked him,
Speaker 1: they knew what to expect from him because he was
Speaker 1: so consistent. And as a leader, when you are consistent
Speaker 1: and they could expect the same thing from you, you
Speaker 1: build that trust in that relationship. Now, I would also add,
Speaker 1: I want that leader to be very optimist, can have
Speaker 1: a ton of belief, and I want that leader to
Speaker 1: be someone who is bringing the team along with them
Speaker 1: and embracing the team. Jayden Daniels is like, I spoke
Speaker 1: to the Commanders before their playoff run. I got invited
Speaker 1: at the last minute to go down there and speak,
Speaker 1: and they were coming up to Tampa, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: can I just drive to Tampa and meet you guys
Speaker 1: From Jacksonville.
Speaker 5: Like, no, ten am Saturday morning, that's the time. You
Speaker 5: know how that works?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah?
Speaker 5: And I said, all right, all right, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: So I flew there and man, this team was special,
Speaker 1: Like I could feel the difference in this room from
Speaker 1: the group of veterans. Zach Ertz was in the room, right,
Speaker 1: You had you had Marcus Mariota in the room.
Speaker 5: You had a group of guys.
Speaker 1: Oh, how can I forget about of course, every guy
Speaker 1: that I've met throughout my year speaking I met Zach
Speaker 1: and Philadelphia, I met Bobby and Seattle, all the guys
Speaker 1: that I met with who were my favorite players on
Speaker 1: the various teams I spoke to over the years. We're
Speaker 1: now in this one room as a group of guys,
Speaker 1: and then you have this young transformational quarterback. It's no
Speaker 1: accident they had the success they had.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: And speaking of that, because one of the things that
Speaker 4: I love to come to you, whether it's your podcasts
Speaker 4: or reading your books.
Speaker 2: Just to positivity.
Speaker 4: Can you speak on why it's so important for people
Speaker 4: or teams that want to do great things to really
Speaker 4: create a positive environment so that everyone can be at
Speaker 4: the best chase.
Speaker 1: There's so much negativity and negativity will bring you down.
Speaker 1: Being positive will guarantee you'll succeed, but being negative will
Speaker 1: guarantee that you won't. Negativity causes division, Pessimism causes us
Speaker 1: to give up. Discouragement sets in and we stop moving forward.
Speaker 1: But optimism and belief and positivity is how we overcome
Speaker 1: adversity and setbacks and challenges. So every team is going
Speaker 1: to get tested, and it's how we respond to the test.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting, Buggy. There are two main frequencies I
Speaker 1: figured out I wrote about this in The One Truth.
Speaker 1: If you really look at life and you look at
Speaker 1: the universe, in the world, everything comes down to two
Speaker 1: main frequencies, positive and negative. And that's why everything in
Speaker 1: this world is positive or negative, good and bad. Right,
Speaker 1: there's the Star Wars, there's Harry Potter, Black Panther, there's
Speaker 1: good versus bad, good versus.
Speaker 5: Evil, positive and negative.
Speaker 1: So in life, the negative brings you down and the
Speaker 1: positive lifts you up, and it's a battle between negative
Speaker 1: and positive. Can we as a team overcome the negativity,
Speaker 1: the adversity, the division, and the discouragement that sets in
Speaker 1: and the distractions along the way. Five d's that everyone
Speaker 1: should be aware of, by the way, doubt distortion, which
Speaker 1: are lies, negative thoughts, and also gossip. We've got discouragement,
Speaker 1: distraction and division, and when that sets in, the team
Speaker 1: falls apart. So what's the key Positivity unites, it, uplifts,
Speaker 1: it encourages and allows you to overcome those five d's
Speaker 1: to move forward.
Speaker 3: That's awesome. Taking a bunch of notes here as we
Speaker 3: go along, I want to ask you about something I
Speaker 3: just read this morning. I was glad you were coming
Speaker 3: on because this is a time of year. You got Ota,
Speaker 3: so you got teams trying to get together. You've got
Speaker 3: everybody coming together with the draft picks, the free agents,
Speaker 3: the existing veterans, trying to make this whole thing form
Speaker 3: and work together. And I saw Kellen Moore the Saints,
Speaker 3: he just canceled their practice today I believe it was today,
Speaker 3: and said now we're going to go do a team
Speaker 3: bonding We're going to go do a team bonding event.
Speaker 3: And it was overwhelmingly from the reaction that I saw
Speaker 3: from the players standpoint, was overwhelmingly well received.
Speaker 2: I know, I guess.
Speaker 3: They said they had played paintball at one of the
Speaker 3: previous mini camps that they had but just from your perspective,
Speaker 3: obviously you want to try and get the team ready.
Speaker 3: Let's learn the playbook, let's get acclimated with one another.
Speaker 3: But when you see a coach like this year one
Speaker 3: in a situation make a choice like this, A what
Speaker 3: informs that decision?
Speaker 2: And b what are the benefits?
Speaker 1: Well, I'm hoping it's because I sent him the seventh
Speaker 1: Commitments of a great Team and it just came out
Speaker 1: and I did send it to him, And a big
Speaker 1: part of this there's a part of the book that says,
Speaker 1: one more day of practice is not gonna make you
Speaker 1: a better team, but one more day of bonding as
Speaker 1: a team, it will make you a stronger team. So
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take credit. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: read it yet or not. I know a lot of
Speaker 1: coaches are there. I'm getting the feedback from it and
Speaker 1: it's awesome, and a lot of coaches were saying, yes,
Speaker 1: this is it. This is a book about commitments and
Speaker 1: about bringing a team together and the importance of bonding.
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of exercises in the book that
Speaker 1: actually allows the team to become more united and connected.
Speaker 1: So I wrote this book to actually get people to
Speaker 1: do this very thing.
Speaker 5: So it is everything.
Speaker 1: If I'm a team, I'm a GM, I'm a coach.
Speaker 1: I am doing everything I can to create a collective
Speaker 1: connection amongst this team, because the more connected you are,
Speaker 1: the more committee you will be. If you lack connection,
Speaker 1: you will move towards division. And we know that that
Speaker 1: separate team, that divided team becomes a very weak team.
Speaker 1: So the more connected you are, the strongly you will be.
Speaker 1: Now you have to have talent. Of course, you can
Speaker 1: be very connected with no talent and you're gonna love each.
Speaker 5: Other, but you're not gonna win a lot of games.
Speaker 1: But if you got the talent and then you have
Speaker 1: the connection, then that rises you to a whole other level.
Speaker 1: So there are a series of team build on exercises
Speaker 1: I actually do with teams now that are our key.
Speaker 1: Like one is the five h's, which is in this book.
Speaker 1: It's who's your hero, a hardship you face that made
Speaker 1: you who you are today, what's the highlight that you're
Speaker 1: proud of, what's hilarious? Share something funny, and what do
Speaker 1: you hope for? And each guy goes around and shares that.
Speaker 1: And I've had teams do this and I tell you
Speaker 1: like Clemson did the year they won the national championship.
Speaker 1: When you do these kind of exercises, there's a bond
Speaker 1: that develops that you don't get otherwise.
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny because DJ and I have talked
Speaker 4: about the three h is what we call it, like
Speaker 4: hebro highlight hardship. We've done it. I've done that with
Speaker 4: my high school team. And I can't tell you, John,
Speaker 4: the emotions that come out of that. Kids share things
Speaker 4: that you never know that's existing in their personal lives
Speaker 4: and it does bring the team together. And one of
Speaker 4: the things that can bring teams together adversity.
Speaker 2: A couple of the guys.
Speaker 4: That you alreays talk you talked about exposed to Sean McVay.
Speaker 4: They have a knack, but when their teams are having
Speaker 4: tough moments, they're able to pull them out and get
Speaker 4: them back on track.
Speaker 2: And being around those type people.
Speaker 4: What is the key to being able to pour your
Speaker 4: team out of a tough situation and circumstance.
Speaker 1: One, I think it's being consistent still, like you stay
Speaker 1: consistent to the principles.
Speaker 5: You know, this is what guides us, and we're not weaver.
Speaker 1: You can't change midstream or mid season. A lot of
Speaker 1: times coaches do that, they change their style, they change
Speaker 1: how they're acting towards the players, and they went up
Speaker 1: losing the locker room. You have to stay consistent. You
Speaker 1: have to address the reality of the situation. Hey, this
Speaker 1: is the challenge we're facing, this is where we are.
Speaker 1: But you also have to provide a path forward and
Speaker 1: why you're going.
Speaker 5: To get there.
Speaker 1: You also have to have the relational relationship and connection
Speaker 1: individually and collectively. So Sean is so great at talking
Speaker 1: to his players and having that one on one relationship
Speaker 1: as well as that as well as that collective connection
Speaker 1: which is Cayse. So Eric Sposure goes do a tough time,
Speaker 1: he's still talking about the vision, still talking about the principles,
Speaker 1: still talking about what's going to make them successful, and
Speaker 1: not wavering, not wavering, and also not getting negative, not
Speaker 1: getting pessimistic, but staying positive and then that encouragement that
Speaker 1: is so key. Resilience is about balancing back. But resilience
Speaker 1: is not about one person. We often think of the
Speaker 1: lone ranger when we think of resilience. It's actually collective
Speaker 1: relationship and connection that leads to resilience.
Speaker 5: So Bucky. If you have someone who supports you and
Speaker 5: encourages you and.
Speaker 1: Loves you and you know they got your back, that's
Speaker 1: going to make you more resilient.
Speaker 5: Well, when you know your coach has your back even.
Speaker 1: Though you're losing and you're not playing well, and that
Speaker 1: coach still loves you, believes in you, and it's here
Speaker 1: for you, that provides an avenue for growth and hopefully
Speaker 1: a comeback.
Speaker 3: John, last one from me, Man, and we always appreciate
Speaker 3: your time. But you know, you talk about some of
Speaker 3: these college coaches you have relationships, with Dabbo being one
Speaker 3: of them. I think about the challenges they face now
Speaker 3: greater than they've ever had at the collegiate level with
Speaker 3: a wide open transfer portal in the transitive nature of
Speaker 3: college sports right now. Two parter here, I feel like
Speaker 3: I might. All I do is ask you two part questions,
Speaker 3: but two part here, how challenging is it? And what
Speaker 3: would be a key to retention to keeping players in
Speaker 3: the fold? And then to me, when you look at that,
Speaker 3: is that going to be kind of like a secret
Speaker 3: weapon if you can have guys. We've seen it in
Speaker 3: the NCAA tournament with basketball. You see the veteran teams
Speaker 3: maybe not as talented as some of these teams that
Speaker 3: have these McDonald's all Americans and some young kids. And
Speaker 3: you see these four year guys that have been together,
Speaker 3: they've just played together, just a better team. Is that
Speaker 3: going to be a secret weapon moving forward?
Speaker 1: It is culture drives talent towards greatness, and the coaches
Speaker 1: that build the relationships, that create a structure, a foundation
Speaker 1: that these guys can rely on. Dabos said it before.
Speaker 1: Players are going to get paid, but they have to
Speaker 1: be there and they have to earn it. And once
Speaker 1: you earn it, you're going to make money while you're there.
Speaker 1: Goes to the same model in the NFL, Like remember
Speaker 1: when guys will pay these huge rookie contracts and the
Speaker 1: veterans will be upset in the locker room. And now
Speaker 1: everyone knows what the rookie contract pretty much is going
Speaker 1: to be, and that issue is no longer there. It's
Speaker 1: the same way at Clemson, like everyone knows you come here,
Speaker 1: you stay, you get paid, and you make X, Y
Speaker 1: and Z. But but Dabo says, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: pay some young freshmen coming in this huge amounts of
Speaker 1: money to get them to come here if they want
Speaker 1: to come great, and if they do, they're going to
Speaker 1: earn it. So he's built a culture of relationship, build
Speaker 1: the culture of connection, and build a culture where you
Speaker 1: have to earn what you get. And I think that's great.
Speaker 1: And I believe those cultures, those leaders who build those
Speaker 1: kind of relationships, the players are there for the right reasons.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be someone offering more money, and
Speaker 1: that's where we have to look at where does this end,
Speaker 1: Like how much can it actually rise? How much could
Speaker 1: it go up? How much could this whole universe support
Speaker 1: in terms of how many players can make X, Y
Speaker 1: and Z. So I really believe the competitive advantage is
Speaker 1: going to be everything we're talking about.
Speaker 5: Culture. It's the leadership, it's the teamwork, it's belief, it's being.
Speaker 1: A part of something greater. And Dabbo now knows. He
Speaker 1: said he used to lose guys all the time. You
Speaker 1: know that they tried to get Now he knows who
Speaker 1: his guy is or who they are, Like, he knows
Speaker 1: who his guy is because the guy that they're losing
Speaker 1: is already getting paid somewhere else. He goes, they were
Speaker 1: getting paid in the past. They just and they weren't
Speaker 1: coming to clems and we just didn't know it. Now
Speaker 1: we know who's getting paid and that's not our guy.
Speaker 1: We know who is who is our guy, and that's
Speaker 1: who they go after. So I think, you know, I
Speaker 1: think now more than ever, the ability to build those
Speaker 1: relations and to create a culture where people want to
Speaker 1: stay and build a family, where guys are going to
Speaker 1: grow and learn and develop and get better, that that's
Speaker 1: going to be.
Speaker 5: More important than ever.
Speaker 1: And I think I think the right people want to
Speaker 1: be a part of that.
Speaker 5: The ones who go to the highest bidder, you're gonna
Speaker 5: lose them, but maybe they're not your right guy anyway.
Speaker 4: You know, John, I'm share with you. I don't even
Speaker 4: know if I told DJ this story. So last question
Speaker 4: for you is a personal story. So my son is
Speaker 4: a walk on. He plays baseball at San Jose State.
Speaker 4: But before his freshman year, when he was trying to
Speaker 4: make it, I stumbled across your book, Coffee Bean, and
Speaker 4: I stuck it in his backpack and I said, hey, man,
Speaker 4: I think you may need to read this along the
Speaker 4: way as you're going through your journey. A couple years later,
Speaker 4: I'm cleaning out his room and there is the book
Speaker 4: Coffee Being with smudges and.
Speaker 2: All these things on it where he read it.
Speaker 4: So I want to thank you because that was really
Speaker 4: impactful for him as he was trying to do something
Speaker 4: that was very difficult for him. But I want to
Speaker 4: ask you, where do you get your inspiration for your stories?
Speaker 4: Because it's fascinating to me that you're able to put
Speaker 4: out a book a collection of books that inspire so many.
Speaker 2: Where do you find your inspiration to come up with
Speaker 2: these great stories?
Speaker 1: Well, this newest one in seven Commitments, I wrote in
Speaker 1: sixteen days and it was a b book that just
Speaker 1: came to me. So I can't take the credit because,
Speaker 1: trust me, I'm not that smart. And my teammates from
Speaker 1: college can't believe what I'm doing now. They're like, you
Speaker 1: were a mental wreck in college and this is what
Speaker 1: you're doing, and I can't believe what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1: So I have to give all credit to God. I'm
Speaker 1: a spiritual guy. God literally gives me these ideas. I walk,
Speaker 1: I pray on a daily basis, and literally not all
Speaker 1: the time, but when it's the right time, the idea
Speaker 1: for a book will come to me and I get
Speaker 1: the vision, the storyline and sort of how I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put it together and I have to sit down and
Speaker 1: write it, but I get a vision for what it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be. That happened with Energy Bus Training Camp,
Speaker 1: even you went in the locker room first that I
Speaker 1: wrote with Mike Smith, which is a really great book
Speaker 1: for coaches, that book. I wasn't sure we were supposed
Speaker 1: to do a book until I walked and I had
Speaker 1: the vision of what it was supposed to be on
Speaker 1: the framework for it. So got to give all credit
Speaker 1: and to know that you read the books, and you
Speaker 1: read in Daniel, and that your son reads and that
Speaker 1: that's what means.
Speaker 5: That means everything.
Speaker 1: I was on the plane yesterday and who sitting next
Speaker 1: to me on the plane right across the aisle.
Speaker 5: Was was Ed Reid.
Speaker 2: Oh nice.
Speaker 5: Couldn't believe it. I'm like, and I go, I go
Speaker 5: you Ed read. He's like, yeah, He's like, guys said, Hi,
Speaker 5: I'm John Gordy. He goes, he goes, oh, John, I
Speaker 5: know who you are. How do you know who I am?
Speaker 5: Because I read I read your books? I said, are
Speaker 5: you're kidding me? Ed Reid's read my books? It blew
Speaker 5: me away, just blew me away.
Speaker 3: That is fantastic. Doesn't surprise me about Ed two. I
Speaker 3: haven't been with him for four years in Baltimore. Ed
Speaker 3: one of the smartest football players that I've ever been around.
Speaker 3: So the fact that he went in to doing some
Speaker 3: coaching and wanting to learn and grow, having that growth
Speaker 3: mindset doesn't surprise me in the least. John, it has
Speaker 3: been great to catch up man. I know you are
Speaker 3: bouncing all over the globe here and sharing your message
Speaker 3: and we're very grateful to have you as a friend
Speaker 3: and we're very grateful for your time today. We appreciate you, buddy.
Speaker 5: I appreciate you, guys.
Speaker 1: I just want to say I forgot to say Eddie
Speaker 1: George came to training camp as well, and now to
Speaker 1: see what he's doing now in the coaching world is
Speaker 1: so cool too, because I've got a chance to work
Speaker 1: with Eddie and the best thing is what you guys
Speaker 1: do and also seeing how coaches lead an impact.
Speaker 5: Man, that's what it's all about. So thanks for all
Speaker 5: that you do. You guys.
Speaker 3: Appreciate you, all right, buck Man. Look, he's always he's
Speaker 3: always kind and generous with his time. We ask him
Speaker 3: to come on, he always comes on, and it's usually
Speaker 3: kind of a thing we're always looking to do this
Speaker 3: time of year when we get a chance to kind
Speaker 3: of cherry pick some of our favorites to come on.
Speaker 3: But again, lots of notes taken there from our buddy
Speaker 3: John DJ.
Speaker 4: I'm always blown away when he comes on and shares
Speaker 4: from the lessons that he's learned, the people that are
Speaker 4: involved in his training camp, the projects that he's doing,
Speaker 4: and how quickly he's able to write these books. He's
Speaker 4: just a unique person, and I think what's inspirational about
Speaker 4: him is just his ability to deal with his own
Speaker 4: adversity and becoming a world renowned author in those things.
Speaker 2: It's just a terrific conversation.
Speaker 4: I think everyone who had opportunity to listen in will
Speaker 4: walk away not only with a bunch of notes, but
Speaker 4: with some lessons that can kind of guide them going
Speaker 4: forward as they lead in their own respective communities.
Speaker 3: I got to ask you as a high school coach.
Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about team bonding. What does
Speaker 3: coach Bucky Brooks do to try and bond the team
Speaker 3: together and what's maybe the favorite thing you've done in
Speaker 3: your time as a coach.
Speaker 2: So we shared the story about the three ags.
Speaker 4: I've done that with the team, but DJ certain simple
Speaker 4: things like having a designated donut day every two or
Speaker 4: three weeks where you bring donuts in for the kids.
Speaker 4: Last week was National Donut Day on Friday, and so
Speaker 4: DJ just you know, donuts are expensive these days. I
Speaker 4: know a hundred kids, there's a lot of donuts there.
Speaker 2: In my pocket.
Speaker 4: My little coaching stipend is all gone the donut stuff.
Speaker 4: But I think what John said when he talked about,
Speaker 4: like Kellen Moore and Kellen Moore talking about a one
Speaker 4: day of practice won't guarantee that you'd be better, but
Speaker 4: one day of bonding can ensure that you play at
Speaker 4: a higher level. I think that's something that is coaches.
Speaker 4: We all get caught up in the next practice, the
Speaker 4: next drill, the next competition as opposed to its relationship business.
Speaker 4: And if you get everyone to really buy in and
Speaker 4: to be connected, you're going to have a lot of success.
Speaker 4: I think listening to John and heeding some of those
Speaker 4: exercises that he's talked about, I.
Speaker 2: Think that has really kind of helped me along the way.
Speaker 3: I think back, you know, if you asked me to
Speaker 3: recall memories from high school football practice. Right, So I
Speaker 3: graduated high school ninety six, so obviously this has been
Speaker 3: it's been quite a long time ago.
Speaker 2: But Buck, I can't.
Speaker 3: I can maybe tell you one or two instances where
Speaker 3: maybe there was a big hit that I kind of
Speaker 3: remember from a tackling drill, maybe something funny that someone
Speaker 3: said to a coach, But I mean, very very vague memories.
Speaker 3: I can tell you for a fact, I remember, you know,
Speaker 3: one year where we were in kind of those grinding
Speaker 3: two A days, which I don't know that you can
Speaker 3: really do it the way we had to do it
Speaker 3: when we were growing up. And then you kind of
Speaker 3: show up for that afternoon practice. We're supposed to be
Speaker 3: in full pads. We've been going doing this for a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks. And we got there and everybody got
Speaker 3: all their pads on, got out the practice, went to
Speaker 3: the full warm up, and our head coach came up
Speaker 3: and said, all right, boys, take your pads off. We're
Speaker 3: going in the pool. And we like, the pool was
Speaker 3: right there. He had like, you know, the high dive
Speaker 3: of all that kind of stuff. So we went over
Speaker 3: there and I mean we sprinted to go jump into
Speaker 3: that pool. But I mean that was a memory that
Speaker 3: I remember. I remember seven on seven or you know,
Speaker 3: doing the Oklahoma drill, all those things. I don't have
Speaker 3: any memories. I do remember that day though, about how
Speaker 3: how excited we were to get out of that heat
Speaker 3: and jump in the pool.
Speaker 2: Look, man, I think I think that's the right perspective.
Speaker 4: I think understanding who you have and what they need
Speaker 4: at that moment.
Speaker 2: Is a special skill.
Speaker 4: And you talk about those memories and the connectivity. I
Speaker 4: was I was at a coaches meeting cif LA City Section.
Speaker 4: We had our coaches meeting in the ram's locker room,
Speaker 4: and one of the leaders talked about one of the
Speaker 4: job of high school coaches is to make sure that
Speaker 4: everyone on that team walks away with a friend and
Speaker 4: a friend that could be their friend for the next
Speaker 4: thirty forty years, talking about how high school sports is
Speaker 4: really about that. So when you talk about those memories,
Speaker 4: those shared experiences, that's really what it's about. Like, that's
Speaker 4: what they can remember far more than the x'es and o's.
Speaker 4: They remember those those unique moments, the tough workouts together,
Speaker 4: all the other stuff where you become a closer team.
Speaker 4: Those are the things that matter. Those are things that
Speaker 4: will kind of carry on with them as they go
Speaker 4: on to the next level of your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have, you know, high school sports.
Speaker 3: To me, you know, I won't go off on a
Speaker 3: tangent here, but I've talked in the past about what
Speaker 3: I would look for like in a youth sports coach.
Speaker 3: Like to me, it's very simple. If you're coaching kids,
Speaker 3: if you're listening to this and you're coaching kids, just
Speaker 3: put the right perspective in this. At the end of
Speaker 3: the season, I've always felt if you're coaching you know,
Speaker 3: let's say thirteen and under, twelve and under, If at
Speaker 3: the end of the year, your players are better at
Speaker 3: the end of the year individually than they were at
Speaker 3: the beginning of the year. If your team has gotten
Speaker 3: a little bit better than they were at the beginning
Speaker 3: of the year. If you've had fun, the kids have
Speaker 3: had a good time. And the last one is they
Speaker 3: all want to play the next year. If you've done that,
Speaker 3: you've hit that checklist. Who cares how many.
Speaker 2: Games you win?
Speaker 3: You know, what your batting average is, what did stats
Speaker 3: say like? If you accomplish those four things as a
Speaker 3: youth coach, I think You've done a great job. And
Speaker 3: when I think of high school Buck, this is a
Speaker 3: very simple one. Man, I would judge your success as
Speaker 3: a high school coach, and I would say this to
Speaker 3: any high school coach. I know you as a high
Speaker 3: school coach, book, but I've always looked at it. Man,
Speaker 3: I would judge my success by how many weddings I
Speaker 3: get invited to down the line and how many players
Speaker 3: hold on to my phone number after they leave campus.
Speaker 3: That to me, would be my view of success of
Speaker 3: a high school coach.
Speaker 2: DJ.
Speaker 4: I can tell you, man, sometimes we're in this weird
Speaker 4: space in high school sports where you almost have to
Speaker 4: make a tough decision. In football, you have to make
Speaker 4: a decision do you want to be a football factory
Speaker 4: or are you really trying to give the great high
Speaker 4: school experience. You obviously understand we're in southern California. There
Speaker 4: are some football powerhouses here, and look, it's not all
Speaker 4: kids from the neighborhood and that's great for them. But
Speaker 4: then others are neighborhood schools that are trying to make
Speaker 4: do with what they have. And I would say that,
Speaker 4: you know, coming off a tough season, the thing that
Speaker 4: I am most excited about heading into this year. I
Speaker 4: looked at my coaching staff and there are five former players, wow,
Speaker 4: that are coaching with me.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 4: I'm talking about guys that have graduated within the last
Speaker 4: three or four years. And so when you think about
Speaker 4: all the things and you hear the noise good and bad,
Speaker 4: when you talk about former players wanting to come back
Speaker 4: because their experience was so good within the program that
Speaker 4: they want to kind of pay it forward to me,
Speaker 4: that tells you that you're on the right track. And
Speaker 4: as long as you're on the right track there, the
Speaker 4: wins will eventually come. But it's about really having those relationships,
Speaker 4: in those bonds that really sustain you if you're a
Speaker 4: coach that's trying to do it, because hey man, you
Speaker 4: just kind of want to leave your mark on the
Speaker 4: world and kind of make the place a little better
Speaker 4: for the people that you're encounting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not feed you're not trying to feed your
Speaker 3: own ego too, which is gosh. I think we see
Speaker 3: that too much in coaching, man. That's why that's why
Speaker 3: I appreciate everything that you do buck in the high
Speaker 3: school space, because you.
Speaker 2: Just pouring into kids.
Speaker 3: Hey, whoever shows up, we're gonna coach them, we're gonna
Speaker 3: love them up, we're gonna we're gonna get better, and
Speaker 3: we're gonna have an enjoyable experience. And along the way,
Speaker 3: you've had a lot of success in doing it that
Speaker 3: way and totally rebuilding a high school program. But you're
Speaker 3: not out there chasing kids so that you can go
Speaker 3: in there so you can, you know, beat your chest
Speaker 3: about how you you know, you've got ten Division ie
Speaker 3: kids and this, that and the other that anybody can coach. Like,
Speaker 3: come on, man, like, stop feeding your own ego. You
Speaker 3: see this high school coach it's all the time. Drives
Speaker 3: me insane, Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 2: But I mean, look, that's that's the way of the world.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're just in a weird space.
Speaker 4: I mean sports have changed so much over the last
Speaker 4: thirty years in terms of those things. Like we went
Speaker 4: from our football teams being coached by the baseball coach,
Speaker 4: the basketball coach.
Speaker 2: Everyone had a part and being an.
Speaker 4: Assistant and then they would go and lead their respective
Speaker 4: sports and the football coach would be an assistant.
Speaker 2: So it was when I was growing up, and.
Speaker 4: There everything is specialization and people do one of their
Speaker 4: own thing, and that is great and the game has
Speaker 4: never been better in some regards. But we just want
Speaker 4: to make sure that, look, man, every player is not
Speaker 4: gonna have an opportunity to play beyond high school. Let's
Speaker 4: make sure that we give everybody a great experience so
Speaker 4: they can look back and really say that, Hey, man,
Speaker 4: I have fond memories for my four years at that
Speaker 4: high school.
Speaker 2: Have an opportunity to participate in extracurricular activity.
Speaker 3: I always wondered about the guys to go to like
Speaker 3: three four high schools, man, like who do you hang out?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 2: Who are you keep in touch with?
Speaker 4: When I looked, it's almost like that an leads to
Speaker 4: the level with the port or everyone bouncing around.
Speaker 2: Which reunions did you go to? You go to all
Speaker 2: of them? Yeah, that's a great question. How do you
Speaker 2: fit in?
Speaker 3: Don't get me started? All right, this has been a
Speaker 3: fun one today. Again thanks to our buddy John Gordon
Speaker 3: for coming on.
Speaker 2: I hope you guys have enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: We try and have some some different conversations this time
Speaker 3: of the year.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll have time for the lists.
Speaker 3: Don't worry about it. If you're craving list will give
Speaker 3: you some lists at some point in time, but we're
Speaker 3: gonna be selfish and have some conversations we want to
Speaker 3: have on the show here.
Speaker 2: So appreciate you guys. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3: Right here on, move the sticks.