WEBVTT - Moby 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:24.356 Pushkin, Moby never stops working. His first taste of mega 0:00:24.396 --> 0:00:26.716 success came in the early yats after the release of 0:00:26.756 --> 0:00:30.276 his multi platinum album Play, which had a big hands 0:00:30.276 --> 0:00:34.316 in electronic music being embraced by the mainstream. In the 0:00:34.356 --> 0:00:39.636 two decades since, Moby's released nineteen more studio albums, including 0:00:39.676 --> 0:00:44.156 his latest Resound and YC, where he reorchestrates songs he 0:00:44.236 --> 0:00:48.396 recorded between ninety four and twenty ten. Moby's also spent 0:00:48.476 --> 0:00:50.716 a good deal of the last two decades unpacking his 0:00:50.716 --> 0:00:55.196 own unconventional upbringing and his meteoric rise to fame. He's 0:00:55.236 --> 0:00:58.876 released two extensive memoirs that detail his hard party in 0:00:58.996 --> 0:01:01.236 days and the low points that inspired him to get 0:01:01.236 --> 0:01:06.076 sober fifteen years ago. He's also directed and produced various documentaries, 0:01:06.076 --> 0:01:09.876 including the recent Punk Rock Vegan movie, which explores the 0:01:09.916 --> 0:01:13.556 connection between two of his greatest passions, punk rock and 0:01:13.596 --> 0:01:17.196 animal rights. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Moby 0:01:17.276 --> 0:01:20.396 about his compulsive desire to make music and why he's 0:01:20.396 --> 0:01:24.036 cut out nearly all in person socialization as a result. 0:01:24.636 --> 0:01:27.716 Moby also reminisces about the massive party pad he bought 0:01:27.756 --> 0:01:30.556 an upstate New York that led to years of all 0:01:30.596 --> 0:01:36.916 out debauchery. This is broken record liner notes for the 0:01:36.956 --> 0:01:41.676 digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose with Moby. 0:01:42.636 --> 0:01:46.316 I've spent the past couple of weeks trying to consume 0:01:46.396 --> 0:01:50.676 all things MOBI, and it's really really difficult to do 0:01:50.756 --> 0:01:56.076 because your body of work is just enormous. Twenty studio albums. 0:01:56.396 --> 0:02:00.716 You've written four books, two memoirs which are each over 0:02:00.796 --> 0:02:02.236 three hundred pages. 0:02:02.356 --> 0:02:05.596 And that's truncated. They were each about eight hundred pages 0:02:05.676 --> 0:02:08.956 before we got rid of all the unnecessary stuff. 0:02:09.476 --> 0:02:10.516 Oh my gosh. 0:02:10.836 --> 0:02:14.956 Yeah, two documentaries, and then you just released Punk Rock 0:02:15.076 --> 0:02:17.916 Vegan Movie a couple months ago. You have a record label, 0:02:17.956 --> 0:02:22.196 a photobook, restaurants, a podcast. I just wanted to ask you, like, 0:02:22.716 --> 0:02:25.516 where do you think your work ethic comes from? 0:02:25.916 --> 0:02:28.876 Well, here's the thing. I don't know if it's a 0:02:28.916 --> 0:02:31.596 work ethic. I mean, it's kind of It makes me 0:02:31.716 --> 0:02:35.516 think of a couple of years ago. And this is 0:02:35.716 --> 0:02:39.116 as an old person. Forgive me because I speak in 0:02:39.476 --> 0:02:44.316 pointless tangents. But a couple of years ago, I was 0:02:44.436 --> 0:02:48.116 hiking with a friend in Angela's National Forest and there 0:02:48.196 --> 0:02:53.876 was this weird shelf by a waterfall and a rattlesnake 0:02:53.916 --> 0:02:57.836 had gotten trapped there, and for some reason, I'm not 0:02:57.916 --> 0:03:01.276 afraid of snakes, and I jumped in and I helped 0:03:01.316 --> 0:03:03.676 save the rattlesnake. I sort of shepherded it away so 0:03:03.836 --> 0:03:06.036 like it could get away from this weird shelf that 0:03:06.076 --> 0:03:10.116 it was trapped in. And my friend said, Wow, you're 0:03:10.156 --> 0:03:11.996 so brave. I'm like, no, it's not brave at all, 0:03:11.996 --> 0:03:17.676 because I wasn't scared, Like bravery only exists when you're 0:03:17.676 --> 0:03:20.916 confronting something you're afraid of, Like I'm afraid of humans. 0:03:20.956 --> 0:03:24.356 I'm just not afraid of snakes. So the same thing 0:03:24.396 --> 0:03:27.756 with a work ethic, like work ethic to me implies 0:03:28.876 --> 0:03:32.716 industrious labor around something that's a struggle, something you don't 0:03:32.716 --> 0:03:36.156 want to do, and everything you just mentioned it's all 0:03:36.196 --> 0:03:39.116 just stuff I love doing. So to me, it's, you know, 0:03:39.156 --> 0:03:41.596 again that old cliche of like if you find something 0:03:41.636 --> 0:03:44.396 you love and you do it every day, you'll never 0:03:44.396 --> 0:03:47.236 work a day in your life. Like I honestly feel 0:03:47.236 --> 0:03:51.516 that way because when I'm confronted with tasks that I 0:03:51.596 --> 0:03:55.156 don't want to do, oh, that's when my work ethic 0:03:55.436 --> 0:04:00.356 completely falls apart. Like I hate I'm such a I 0:04:00.396 --> 0:04:03.436 don't know, like stunted adolescent child. And the funny thing 0:04:03.476 --> 0:04:07.156 is the way I procrastinate is by working on music 0:04:07.316 --> 0:04:10.716 or writing, or doing some other form of creative expression. 0:04:10.756 --> 0:04:13.516 Like that's also how I procrastinate to get out of 0:04:13.516 --> 0:04:14.756 doing the stuff I don't want to do. 0:04:15.796 --> 0:04:18.596 What do you think is the thing that is powering 0:04:18.996 --> 0:04:23.196 the creative expression? What's the thing that's keeping you interested 0:04:23.476 --> 0:04:24.556 after all these years? 0:04:25.316 --> 0:04:30.356 You know it's I mean, selfishly, it's just it's joy. 0:04:30.956 --> 0:04:36.436 Like it's just the pure emotional satisfaction that I personally 0:04:36.476 --> 0:04:42.116 get from making things. And I mean, I could expand 0:04:42.196 --> 0:04:44.956 on that and say that there's perhaps a more esoteric aspect, 0:04:45.036 --> 0:04:50.116 which is by creating, by making music, by making anything, 0:04:50.116 --> 0:04:53.636 by writing, we are sort of and it's going to 0:04:53.676 --> 0:04:56.796 sound really new, agy but like we're sort of we're 0:04:57.076 --> 0:05:02.556 channeling whatever strange spirit might inhabit the universe, and we're 0:05:02.596 --> 0:05:04.596 also trying to make sense of it, and we're trying 0:05:04.636 --> 0:05:07.636 to share it with other people because maybe in so 0:05:07.796 --> 0:05:10.756 doing we create a better can action with them, and 0:05:10.836 --> 0:05:13.756 also by sharing with other people, it helps the dialectic 0:05:13.836 --> 0:05:18.596 that's contained in that process, we sort of understand everything 0:05:18.676 --> 0:05:23.356 a little bit better, But ultimately it's just the selfish 0:05:23.756 --> 0:05:30.436 joy of making things, and it's almost a compulsion because 0:05:31.396 --> 0:05:34.516 and this might sound really obnoxious, but I don't understand 0:05:34.516 --> 0:05:41.756 how people get through Quotitian life without having creative outlets. Yeah, 0:05:41.796 --> 0:05:46.836 and that's I'm sorry if that sounds really entitled or presumptuous, 0:05:46.836 --> 0:05:49.076 But I look at people's lives. I'm like, how do 0:05:49.116 --> 0:05:51.676 you make sense of the world? How do you like? 0:05:52.196 --> 0:05:54.436 How do you make sense of your life? How do 0:05:54.516 --> 0:05:58.476 you fill your life with even purported meaning? If you're 0:05:58.516 --> 0:05:59.836 not creating something? 0:06:00.596 --> 0:06:03.716 Right, it's interesting that you say that that it comes 0:06:04.156 --> 0:06:09.636 partially from a desire to share things with people. When 0:06:09.756 --> 0:06:13.476 I assumed that part of it was to learn more 0:06:13.476 --> 0:06:17.716 about yourself or make sense of, you know, your experience 0:06:17.996 --> 0:06:20.676 or your thoughts or whatever it is, I thought of 0:06:20.716 --> 0:06:22.796 it more as like an internal search. 0:06:23.636 --> 0:06:25.276 I mean, I assume that that's a part of it, 0:06:25.316 --> 0:06:29.396 but it's the age old thing of you know. Whoever 0:06:29.476 --> 0:06:33.916 the person is the artist, the writer. If I wasn't 0:06:33.956 --> 0:06:36.276 ashamed to use this term, I would say the sort 0:06:36.316 --> 0:06:38.636 of the shaman. I mean, I feel dirty that that 0:06:38.676 --> 0:06:41.916 word even came out of my mouth. But the person 0:06:42.356 --> 0:06:47.196 who goes away has an experience and then comes back 0:06:47.196 --> 0:06:49.196 and wants to share it. And that doesn't speak to 0:06:49.236 --> 0:06:51.716 the quality of the experience, you know, because I'll never 0:06:52.956 --> 0:06:55.476 and I don't mean to be like too self deprecating, 0:06:55.476 --> 0:06:58.116 but I'll never speak to the quality of my work. 0:06:58.236 --> 0:07:00.596 I'll never for a second say that anything I do 0:07:00.716 --> 0:07:03.396 is good. But there's a lot of it, you know, 0:07:03.516 --> 0:07:08.556 and hopefully some of it's good, and hopefully maybe if 0:07:08.596 --> 0:07:11.036 I keep working at it. Like that's the idea, is 0:07:11.076 --> 0:07:13.596 that you wake up every day and you keep working 0:07:13.676 --> 0:07:18.116 in the hope that someday you start to get there. 0:07:18.716 --> 0:07:20.516 Okay, so it's trying to get good. 0:07:20.716 --> 0:07:23.916 Yeah, And the one other aspect of that is like, 0:07:23.956 --> 0:07:26.156 for example, I never take days off. I work seven 0:07:26.236 --> 0:07:29.476 days a week, and I don't take vacations. I don't 0:07:29.476 --> 0:07:34.116 really socialize. I certainly don't date. Because when I'm doing 0:07:34.156 --> 0:07:36.636 any of those things, there's a little part like in 0:07:36.676 --> 0:07:39.756 the back of my head, I'm like, oh, what could 0:07:39.836 --> 0:07:44.116 I have been making, like like by going to this party, 0:07:44.156 --> 0:07:46.596 by going to such like a red carpet event, by 0:07:47.076 --> 0:07:51.156 going on vacation. I'm like, oh, I could have made 0:07:51.196 --> 0:07:55.876 something and it maybe maybe this would have been the 0:07:55.916 --> 0:07:59.556 work of greatness that everything else was leading to. But 0:07:59.796 --> 0:08:03.956 instead I'm at Disney World taking pictures with Mickey. 0:08:04.996 --> 0:08:08.356 What if though, like a comedian, what if that gives 0:08:08.356 --> 0:08:12.076 you material? What if going on you know, out to 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:13.996 dinner or going to a party, whatever. 0:08:13.716 --> 0:08:15.076 It is a couple hours. 0:08:15.116 --> 0:08:17.236 What if that gives you some sort of new perspective 0:08:17.236 --> 0:08:17.916 and inspiration. 0:08:18.556 --> 0:08:18.716 Oh? 0:08:18.796 --> 0:08:22.396 Absolutely. That used to be the case all the time 0:08:22.436 --> 0:08:24.436 when I was living in New York, going out to 0:08:24.596 --> 0:08:28.876 bars and nightclubs. Yeah, especially pre sobriety, because I would 0:08:28.876 --> 0:08:31.156 go out and I would hear other DJs, and I 0:08:31.156 --> 0:08:33.396 would listen to bands, and I would hear what people 0:08:33.436 --> 0:08:35.316 were doing, and I would come home at two or 0:08:35.316 --> 0:08:37.676 three in the morning inspired and turn on my studio 0:08:38.436 --> 0:08:42.276 and channel that inspiration. So you're absolutely right, I am 0:08:42.396 --> 0:08:47.196 missing out on that that potential for we'll call it 0:08:47.196 --> 0:08:54.076 like real irl inspiration. But the problem there is it's 0:08:54.116 --> 0:08:59.276 a it's a tiny percentage of time that yields that inspiration, 0:09:00.236 --> 0:09:05.836 and more often than not, it's standing around awkwardly holding 0:09:05.876 --> 0:09:11.316 a bottle of carbonated poland spring, smiling inanely while someone 0:09:11.436 --> 0:09:13.756 tells me about a TV show they like, and I'm 0:09:13.756 --> 0:09:17.116 not maligning TV or sparkling poland Spring. I'm just saying, 0:09:17.156 --> 0:09:19.836 like I you know, most of the time, it's kind 0:09:19.836 --> 0:09:20.236 of banell. 0:09:21.516 --> 0:09:22.596 No, that's very true. 0:09:22.756 --> 0:09:24.916 Like one of the greatest gifts anyone can ever give 0:09:24.916 --> 0:09:26.116 me is canceling plans. 0:09:26.836 --> 0:09:29.836 But you're also someone who has done so much, and 0:09:29.916 --> 0:09:33.956 you've been everywhere. You've been a superstar and had everything 0:09:33.996 --> 0:09:36.476 that comes along with that. You know, you've been on 0:09:36.516 --> 0:09:38.836 the top, you've been on the bottom. You've been to 0:09:38.876 --> 0:09:42.076 a million parties, you've been to every club, every concert, 0:09:42.276 --> 0:09:44.996 you've been on stage, you've been in the crowd, so 0:09:45.076 --> 0:09:46.876 you've sort of like experienced it all. 0:09:47.876 --> 0:09:51.236 Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, being fifty seven 0:09:51.316 --> 0:09:55.316 years old and having had a very varied existence, you know, 0:09:55.396 --> 0:10:01.196 experiencing wealth, experiencing poverty, living in a five level quintuplex 0:10:01.236 --> 0:10:04.116 on Central Park West, but also squatting in an abandoned 0:10:04.156 --> 0:10:10.236 factory in a crack neighborhood. And I love every single 0:10:10.236 --> 0:10:14.516 thing I've experienced because it's given me perspective. And it's 0:10:14.556 --> 0:10:18.876 also like, I think one of the greatest facets of 0:10:19.076 --> 0:10:25.716 experiencing fame is that you can no longer romanticize fame. Yes, yeah, 0:10:25.756 --> 0:10:27.636 we live in a culture, and again, forgive me for 0:10:27.676 --> 0:10:30.356 stating the obvious, but we live in a culture where 0:10:30.556 --> 0:10:34.716 fame is the pinnacle. Everybody wants fame, and if they 0:10:34.716 --> 0:10:37.596 have fame, they want more fame, and it's people are 0:10:37.636 --> 0:10:41.836 obsessed with fame. And I had it, and it's not 0:10:41.996 --> 0:10:45.996 that great. Famous people, as you've probably experienced. Hopefully present 0:10:46.036 --> 0:10:49.236 company may be possibly excluded, but famous people just tend 0:10:49.276 --> 0:10:52.716 to be kind of like, more entitled, less interesting versions 0:10:52.716 --> 0:10:56.156 of our friends. And I've been to you know, famous 0:10:56.196 --> 0:11:00.596 people parties and birthday parties and politician parties, and like, 0:11:01.276 --> 0:11:07.116 I have yet to meet a famous person who is smarter, funnier, 0:11:07.196 --> 0:11:09.796 or more interesting than anybody else I grew up with. 0:11:10.396 --> 0:11:12.596 Do you think that's because of the time in your 0:11:12.596 --> 0:11:14.636 life when you met the people you grew up with, 0:11:15.156 --> 0:11:17.996 Since those people sort of mold us, they're like our 0:11:18.116 --> 0:11:20.476 archetypes in a lot of ways. 0:11:20.196 --> 0:11:22.916 Except that I'm still largely in touch with most of 0:11:22.916 --> 0:11:27.516 those people, and they still are, Like, my friends are 0:11:27.836 --> 0:11:32.916 so much funnier and more interesting and more engaging and 0:11:32.956 --> 0:11:37.196 more curious and less entitled than any of the famous 0:11:37.236 --> 0:11:39.516 people I've ever met. And I've met I don't want 0:11:39.556 --> 0:11:41.156 to malign any of the famous people I've met, like 0:11:41.156 --> 0:11:45.116 they're all fine, but they don't really offer that much, 0:11:45.236 --> 0:11:49.236 Like there is that, And I assume you've experienced this 0:11:49.276 --> 0:11:51.996 as well, like with real like the big famous people, 0:11:52.116 --> 0:11:55.436 like they do kind of feel like ninety percent of 0:11:55.476 --> 0:11:59.476 the time them just showing up is enough. Yeah, And 0:11:59.556 --> 0:12:02.116 the truth is, for most people it is like if 0:12:02.156 --> 0:12:05.196 you're Brad Pitt, you don't really need to be the 0:12:05.196 --> 0:12:07.916 greatest conversationalists in the world because if you show up, 0:12:07.996 --> 0:12:10.676 the room comes to a halt. So I will say 0:12:10.676 --> 0:12:13.036 that about fame, like I'm so glad I've experienced it, 0:12:13.036 --> 0:12:15.756 because one, I also appreciate that it's given me a 0:12:15.796 --> 0:12:20.316 platform to address issues that I care about. But also 0:12:20.876 --> 0:12:25.036 it makes it so easy to not fetishize fame when 0:12:25.036 --> 0:12:27.316 you've seen it up close. 0:12:27.516 --> 0:12:29.396 And it's something that you really do a good job 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:34.396 in your memoirs of breaking that facade. And you know, 0:12:34.276 --> 0:12:36.636 you thought you would feel a certain way when you 0:12:36.676 --> 0:12:39.916 became famous or you had success, and you sounds like 0:12:39.956 --> 0:12:41.396 you even felt worse. 0:12:41.996 --> 0:12:47.876 Oh considerably worse. Because sorry to sound like a grad student, 0:12:48.156 --> 0:12:54.756 but like everything does have an existential subtext or an 0:12:54.756 --> 0:12:58.356 existential context. And what I mean by that is the 0:12:58.476 --> 0:13:05.316 human condition is terrifying, baffling, and at times kind of horrifying. 0:13:05.436 --> 0:13:09.716 Like best case scenario, you get old and die of 0:13:09.956 --> 0:13:14.356 sad diseases, you know. And I was just reading about 0:13:14.876 --> 0:13:19.316 how astronomers have discovered a super massive black hole. It's 0:13:19.356 --> 0:13:22.556 relatively nearby, and it's as big as one hundred and 0:13:22.556 --> 0:13:26.996 twenty billion of our sons And that's just one black 0:13:27.036 --> 0:13:29.556 hole out of trillions. And you put it in perspective 0:13:29.556 --> 0:13:32.556 and you're like, oh, so, here are these humans, these scared, 0:13:32.796 --> 0:13:38.716 little hairless, vicious monkeys, pretending that our lives have significance, 0:13:38.836 --> 0:13:42.436 pretending our lives have meaning. And maybe they do. I'm 0:13:42.436 --> 0:13:45.596 not saying our lives don't have significance or meaning, but 0:13:46.116 --> 0:13:48.476 there's a good chance the significance and meaning of our 0:13:48.516 --> 0:13:51.756 lives is not what we imagine it to be. It's 0:13:51.756 --> 0:13:57.116 certainly not material. So to that point of the existential 0:13:57.156 --> 0:14:00.916 subtext of fame is like, as we experience every time 0:14:00.996 --> 0:14:03.596 we look at the world around us, everyone's trying to 0:14:03.756 --> 0:14:07.196 exempt themselves from the human condition, or they're trying to 0:14:07.276 --> 0:14:10.676 win the human condition. And it's thinking that you could 0:14:10.716 --> 0:14:17.236 either accomplish that with fame, with money, with beauty, with accolades, 0:14:17.876 --> 0:14:22.476 with intelligence, even with cynicism, with drugs, with alcohol. It's 0:14:22.636 --> 0:14:27.676 it's all this attempt to somehow circumvent and conquer the 0:14:27.756 --> 0:14:32.116 human condition. And the reason I wrote those two memoirs 0:14:32.276 --> 0:14:35.956 is because that's what I kept trying to do, you know, 0:14:36.316 --> 0:14:38.836 to be like, Okay, when do you win, Like when, 0:14:39.036 --> 0:14:44.436 like at what point do you you know, accomplish enough, 0:14:44.636 --> 0:14:48.436 like whether through fame, materialism, accolades, what have you? When 0:14:48.476 --> 0:14:53.636 do you feel like you have finally, Like Ahab conquered 0:14:53.796 --> 0:14:56.716 Moby Dick. And there's a reason why I love my name, 0:14:56.836 --> 0:14:59.796 which I didn't give myself, but is at the end, 0:14:59.996 --> 0:15:04.716 Ahab is trying to conquer the unknowable, vast universe, and 0:15:04.756 --> 0:15:08.476 of course he's destroyed by it. It's like if the 0:15:08.596 --> 0:15:12.116 universe Las Vegas, the house always wins, like we as 0:15:12.236 --> 0:15:17.756 humans can never win the existential conquest, and so the 0:15:17.796 --> 0:15:20.836 only thing is to step back and have compassion for 0:15:20.876 --> 0:15:23.916 ourselves and for the other people who are struggling through 0:15:23.916 --> 0:15:27.996 the confusion of the human condition, and to learn from 0:15:27.996 --> 0:15:33.196 it and hopefully have a little bit of observational maybe bemusement. 0:15:33.316 --> 0:15:36.556 At least, this is after years of trying to beat 0:15:36.556 --> 0:15:38.876 the human condition with so many different ways. This is 0:15:38.996 --> 0:15:41.556 at least what I've come up with at this point. 0:15:41.596 --> 0:15:44.036 It could be I'm completely mistaken and the way to 0:15:44.076 --> 0:15:46.236 win the human condition is to go to Reno and 0:15:46.236 --> 0:15:48.396 get hair plugs and get married to a stripper. I 0:15:48.436 --> 0:15:49.036 have no idea. 0:15:49.876 --> 0:15:53.716 What about money though, just you know, fame aside as 0:15:53.716 --> 0:15:57.356 somebody who grew up with very little in poverty. You 0:15:57.396 --> 0:16:00.596 talk about that a lot in your memoirs. What about 0:16:00.596 --> 0:16:02.596 the point when all of a sudden you have money. 0:16:03.116 --> 0:16:05.236 I mean, as someone who doesn't have a lot of money, 0:16:05.276 --> 0:16:08.676 I don't. I feel like there are legitimate problems that 0:16:08.916 --> 0:16:12.836 have money can solve. Oh, and it could buy happiness 0:16:12.876 --> 0:16:15.116 in a way like it can buy some happiness. 0:16:15.436 --> 0:16:18.236 I mean, if it did buy happiness, then Kanye and 0:16:18.276 --> 0:16:20.956 Elon and Trump would be the happiest people on the planet. 0:16:21.316 --> 0:16:24.316 And they are mentally ill lunatics. So what I will 0:16:24.356 --> 0:16:28.796 say is having money, having a degree of money is 0:16:29.076 --> 0:16:32.716 great when you're able to like pay the rent, or 0:16:33.116 --> 0:16:36.076 you know, buy blueberries out of season, or take your 0:16:36.076 --> 0:16:39.036 friends out to dinner and not worry about picking up 0:16:39.076 --> 0:16:42.396 the tab like to be able to, you know, go 0:16:42.476 --> 0:16:45.476 to a good dentist who maybe doesn't accept health insurance. 0:16:45.516 --> 0:16:51.316 Like money, the practical application of financial security or financial 0:16:51.316 --> 0:16:55.836 stability is great, and no one could pretend otherwise the 0:16:55.916 --> 0:16:59.196 problem is going back to that idea of conquering the 0:16:59.276 --> 0:17:02.956 human condition. Is like when people expect money to enable 0:17:02.996 --> 0:17:06.436 you to transcend the human condition, that's when you end 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:09.796 up in the White White House, eating hamberg or screaming 0:17:09.836 --> 0:17:12.716 at the television. You know, that's when you're elon on 0:17:12.756 --> 0:17:18.316 a private plane, microdosing acid and posting on Twitter eight 0:17:18.396 --> 0:17:21.796 hundred times a day about right wing conspiracy theories. Like 0:17:21.876 --> 0:17:26.676 money is great for practical reasons, but beyond that, and 0:17:26.956 --> 0:17:29.396 the evidence is everywhere if we're willing to look at it, 0:17:29.556 --> 0:17:33.196 beyond practical application, money doesn't fix anything. 0:17:33.956 --> 0:17:34.876 That's very true. 0:17:35.356 --> 0:17:37.596 Just seems like when you're when you don't have a 0:17:37.596 --> 0:17:39.716 lot of it, all problems, you know, do come back 0:17:39.716 --> 0:17:40.196 to money. 0:17:40.836 --> 0:17:44.116 Yeah. I mean it's tricky because because I grew up 0:17:44.236 --> 0:17:47.716 very poor, everyone in my family was very poor. The 0:17:47.756 --> 0:17:50.036 weird thing, when I was growing up poor, there was 0:17:50.076 --> 0:17:53.076 almost never talk of money. Like my aunts, my uncles, 0:17:53.116 --> 0:17:57.116 my mom, all their friends, like everybody was like working 0:17:57.196 --> 0:18:03.116 New England poor, being a sculptor, being a painter, but 0:18:03.796 --> 0:18:07.476 never making more than minimum wage. And the weird thing, 0:18:08.156 --> 0:18:11.076 no one ever complained. And of course there was talk 0:18:11.116 --> 0:18:13.596 of like, oh, you know, I need to get snow 0:18:13.636 --> 0:18:16.396 tires from my car and I can't afford it. Winter's 0:18:16.396 --> 0:18:18.436 coming up. We need to go get winter jackets, so 0:18:18.476 --> 0:18:20.676 we're going to Salvation Army or Goodwill. But I was 0:18:20.716 --> 0:18:23.316 just like we all just sort of accepted it. So 0:18:24.276 --> 0:18:27.236 when I left home and I was as broke as 0:18:27.396 --> 0:18:30.436 anybody I know has ever been. I was living in 0:18:30.476 --> 0:18:34.316 an abandoned factory, making on average two thousand dollars a year. 0:18:34.396 --> 0:18:37.076 I didn't have running water, but it was okay. I 0:18:37.116 --> 0:18:39.516 was like, man, that's okay. I don't necessarily want to 0:18:39.516 --> 0:18:42.716 go back to it. But the strange thing, and I 0:18:42.756 --> 0:18:49.156 know this might sound like cliched public figure, relatively affluent narrative, 0:18:49.276 --> 0:18:52.716 but like, I was way happier with my friends in 0:18:52.796 --> 0:18:55.316 the abandoned factory when I was making two thousand dollars 0:18:55.356 --> 0:18:59.076 a year, then by myself in a quintuplex on Central 0:18:59.116 --> 0:19:01.716 Park West, bottoming out as a drug addict. 0:19:02.436 --> 0:19:04.436 Yeah, And then I read also that when you bought 0:19:04.516 --> 0:19:08.076 the castle in La you at a certain point moved 0:19:08.076 --> 0:19:09.876 into a closet and just slept in there. 0:19:10.556 --> 0:19:12.676 Oh well, actually the closet. I have slept in a 0:19:12.716 --> 0:19:15.636 lot of closets, but the closet was. I had this 0:19:15.956 --> 0:19:20.596 crazy compound upstate in Kent, New York. It's in Putnam County, 0:19:21.556 --> 0:19:27.476 and it was my sort of degenerate Sylvan country party pad. 0:19:27.556 --> 0:19:29.956 And it was great for that. It had a disco. 0:19:30.196 --> 0:19:33.756 It was sixty acres adjacent to three hundred acre state park. 0:19:34.436 --> 0:19:39.956 It was a phenomenal party palace. And I built this 0:19:40.076 --> 0:19:42.876 bedroom that was roughly as big as the house I 0:19:42.916 --> 0:19:46.356 grew up in, this massive, you know, huge bedroom you 0:19:46.396 --> 0:19:49.876 could like land an airplane in. But I couldn't sleep 0:19:49.876 --> 0:19:51.596 in it. It was too big, and it was too bright 0:19:51.596 --> 0:19:53.836 because I had so much all these skylights and all 0:19:53.836 --> 0:19:56.396 this glass, and so I dragged my futon into the 0:19:56.396 --> 0:19:58.476 walk in closet and I had to sleep in the closet. 0:19:59.476 --> 0:20:01.036 How long was that place fun for? 0:20:02.076 --> 0:20:04.956 I mean, it was the most fun place in the world. 0:20:05.476 --> 0:20:09.156 At one am before I got sober, you know, and 0:20:09.196 --> 0:20:12.636 I had thirty people come up from New York, and 0:20:12.756 --> 0:20:15.556 there was the disco. There was a spa there. I mean, 0:20:15.596 --> 0:20:20.796 it was really flawless when it came to one am, drunken, 0:20:20.876 --> 0:20:24.596 drug fueled debauchery eight o'clock in the morning, when the 0:20:24.636 --> 0:20:27.556 sun came up and you felt like throwing up, and 0:20:27.916 --> 0:20:30.756 you realized that the hot tub in the spa was 0:20:31.356 --> 0:20:34.956 the color and consistency of split pea soup. And that's 0:20:34.956 --> 0:20:38.516 when you realize, oh, that's right. No matter how much 0:20:38.596 --> 0:20:44.076 fun one am is, you can't avoid the eight am, 0:20:44.196 --> 0:20:45.316 dark morning of the soul. 0:20:46.036 --> 0:20:47.956 Just thinking back on that period of your life, is 0:20:47.956 --> 0:20:50.516 there anyone that you keep in touch with from those days? 0:20:51.396 --> 0:20:55.276 Yeah? My actually, my girlfriend from that time. She and 0:20:55.276 --> 0:20:57.476 I are still really good friends. Like a lot of 0:20:57.476 --> 0:21:01.876 people from then I haven't stayed in that much touch 0:21:01.916 --> 0:21:04.956 with because some of them are like still out trying 0:21:04.996 --> 0:21:10.156 to live the dream, and you know, people who've moved 0:21:10.156 --> 0:21:15.476 to Miami and are really exploring where cocaine addiction can 0:21:15.516 --> 0:21:18.516 take you, Like it's kind of hard to stay friends 0:21:18.556 --> 0:21:20.956 with them. But like the people who've gotten sober, the 0:21:20.956 --> 0:21:24.156 people who sort of aged out of it, like some 0:21:24.316 --> 0:21:28.716 of my good friends definitely are in the same boat 0:21:28.756 --> 0:21:34.036 as me. Is, like we emerged relatively unscathed, where you know, 0:21:34.076 --> 0:21:39.076 we can be old people who meet up and drink 0:21:39.116 --> 0:21:41.916 smoothies and talk about what it used to be like 0:21:42.196 --> 0:21:45.276 to gobble xanax and vic it in at nine o'clock 0:21:45.316 --> 0:21:47.596 in the morning just to try and fall asleep after 0:21:47.636 --> 0:21:48.676 doing so much cocaine. 0:21:49.396 --> 0:21:52.916 Yeah, when you meet people or when you're recognized on 0:21:52.916 --> 0:21:55.716 the street, people come up and talk to you. Is 0:21:55.756 --> 0:21:59.916 there something that people ask you about that surprises you. 0:22:00.596 --> 0:22:04.836 I mean one of the main things that I've been 0:22:04.916 --> 0:22:10.196 asked lately is, you know, when I earned fifty I 0:22:10.236 --> 0:22:15.516 started getting vegan tattoos on my body, And so that's 0:22:15.636 --> 0:22:19.076 the main question. And it's not really even me being recognized. 0:22:19.156 --> 0:22:22.156 It's just random people saying, hey, why do you have 0:22:22.276 --> 0:22:24.076 Vegan for Life tattooed on your neck? Why do you 0:22:24.076 --> 0:22:26.516 have animal rights tattooed on your arms? So I guess 0:22:26.516 --> 0:22:29.276 that's not there's nothing surprising about that, because when you 0:22:29.396 --> 0:22:33.516 have giant letters tattooed on your body, it's not surprising 0:22:33.556 --> 0:22:35.036 that people would ask you about it. 0:22:35.396 --> 0:22:37.876 Right, Yeah, do you wish that you got them like 0:22:37.996 --> 0:22:40.836 thirty years ago? Especially in the hardcore scene, in the 0:22:40.836 --> 0:22:41.756 punk rock scene. 0:22:42.236 --> 0:22:46.076 Well, so here's the thing in nineteen ninety five, I 0:22:46.236 --> 0:22:49.916 had my sort of we'll call it like my big 0:22:49.956 --> 0:22:53.636 alternative music year, and I went on tour with the 0:22:53.716 --> 0:22:57.436 Chili Peppers and the Flaming Lips and I did Lollapalooza 0:22:58.036 --> 0:23:02.236 with Sonic Youth and Beck and Pavement and my album 0:23:02.236 --> 0:23:05.036 in nineteen ninety five, Everything is Wrong with Spin's Album 0:23:05.076 --> 0:23:07.756 of the Year, and like it was like this big 0:23:08.596 --> 0:23:11.636 indie year for me, because before that I'd just been 0:23:11.716 --> 0:23:15.756 like a sort of shy, retiring nerdy I was still 0:23:15.756 --> 0:23:18.156 a shy, retiring, nerdy techno guy. But suddenly I was 0:23:18.196 --> 0:23:21.156 on tour with the Chili Peppers, and everybody in the 0:23:21.196 --> 0:23:23.236 Chili Peppers and in their band and crew they all 0:23:23.236 --> 0:23:27.836 had tattoos, and I wanted to get tattoos. And what 0:23:27.956 --> 0:23:31.996 I really wanted to get were those tribal tattoos that 0:23:32.156 --> 0:23:36.596 bouncers at strip clubs have totally and so I'm there. 0:23:36.796 --> 0:23:39.596 So to your point, I'm thrilled that I did not 0:23:39.716 --> 0:23:43.236 get tattoos back then, because if I had, I would 0:23:43.276 --> 0:23:47.076 be one of those middle aged guys with faded tribal tattoos, 0:23:47.156 --> 0:23:49.316 which on some people it can be a good look, 0:23:49.356 --> 0:23:52.076 but it would not like as my old skin starts 0:23:52.116 --> 0:23:55.156 to sag. It would definitely not be all that attractive. 0:23:56.036 --> 0:23:57.676 We have to take a quick break and then we'll 0:23:57.676 --> 0:24:04.596 be back with more from Lea Rose and Moby. We're 0:24:04.596 --> 0:24:06.836