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Speaker 1: Pushkin, Moby never stops working. His first taste of mega

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Speaker 1: success came in the early yats after the release of

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Speaker 1: his multi platinum album Play, which had a big hands

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Speaker 1: in electronic music being embraced by the mainstream. In the

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Speaker 1: two decades since, Moby's released nineteen more studio albums, including

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Speaker 1: his latest Resound and YC, where he reorchestrates songs he

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Speaker 1: recorded between ninety four and twenty ten. Moby's also spent

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Speaker 1: a good deal of the last two decades unpacking his

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Speaker 1: own unconventional upbringing and his meteoric rise to fame. He's

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Speaker 1: released two extensive memoirs that detail his hard party in

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Speaker 1: days and the low points that inspired him to get

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Speaker 1: sober fifteen years ago. He's also directed and produced various documentaries,

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Speaker 1: including the recent Punk Rock Vegan movie, which explores the

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Speaker 1: connection between two of his greatest passions, punk rock and

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Speaker 1: animal rights. On today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Moby

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Speaker 1: about his compulsive desire to make music and why he's

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Speaker 1: cut out nearly all in person socialization as a result.

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Speaker 1: Moby also reminisces about the massive party pad he bought

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Speaker 1: an upstate New York that led to years of all

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Speaker 1: out debauchery. This is broken record liner notes for the

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Speaker 1: digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Lea Rose with Moby.

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Speaker 2: I've spent the past couple of weeks trying to consume

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Speaker 2: all things MOBI, and it's really really difficult to do

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Speaker 2: because your body of work is just enormous. Twenty studio albums.

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Speaker 2: You've written four books, two memoirs which are each over

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Speaker 2: three hundred pages.

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Speaker 3: And that's truncated. They were each about eight hundred pages

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Speaker 3: before we got rid of all the unnecessary stuff.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, two documentaries, and then you just released Punk Rock

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Speaker 2: Vegan Movie a couple months ago. You have a record label,

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Speaker 2: a photobook, restaurants, a podcast. I just wanted to ask you, like,

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Speaker 2: where do you think your work ethic comes from?

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Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing. I don't know if it's a

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Speaker 3: work ethic. I mean, it's kind of It makes me

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Speaker 3: think of a couple of years ago. And this is

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Speaker 3: as an old person. Forgive me because I speak in

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Speaker 3: pointless tangents. But a couple of years ago, I was

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Speaker 3: hiking with a friend in Angela's National Forest and there

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Speaker 3: was this weird shelf by a waterfall and a rattlesnake

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Speaker 3: had gotten trapped there, and for some reason, I'm not

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Speaker 3: afraid of snakes, and I jumped in and I helped

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Speaker 3: save the rattlesnake. I sort of shepherded it away so

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Speaker 3: like it could get away from this weird shelf that

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Speaker 3: it was trapped in. And my friend said, Wow, you're

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Speaker 3: so brave. I'm like, no, it's not brave at all,

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Speaker 3: because I wasn't scared, Like bravery only exists when you're

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Speaker 3: confronting something you're afraid of, Like I'm afraid of humans.

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Speaker 3: I'm just not afraid of snakes. So the same thing

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Speaker 3: with a work ethic, like work ethic to me implies

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Speaker 3: industrious labor around something that's a struggle, something you don't

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Speaker 3: want to do, and everything you just mentioned it's all

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Speaker 3: just stuff I love doing. So to me, it's, you know,

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Speaker 3: again that old cliche of like if you find something

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Speaker 3: you love and you do it every day, you'll never

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Speaker 3: work a day in your life. Like I honestly feel

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Speaker 3: that way because when I'm confronted with tasks that I

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Speaker 3: don't want to do, oh, that's when my work ethic

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Speaker 3: completely falls apart. Like I hate I'm such a I

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Speaker 3: don't know, like stunted adolescent child. And the funny thing

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Speaker 3: is the way I procrastinate is by working on music

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Speaker 3: or writing, or doing some other form of creative expression.

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Speaker 3: Like that's also how I procrastinate to get out of

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Speaker 3: doing the stuff I don't want to do.

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Speaker 2: What do you think is the thing that is powering

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Speaker 2: the creative expression? What's the thing that's keeping you interested

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Speaker 2: after all these years?

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Speaker 3: You know it's I mean, selfishly, it's just it's joy.

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Speaker 3: Like it's just the pure emotional satisfaction that I personally

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Speaker 3: get from making things. And I mean, I could expand

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Speaker 3: on that and say that there's perhaps a more esoteric aspect,

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Speaker 3: which is by creating, by making music, by making anything,

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Speaker 3: by writing, we are sort of and it's going to

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Speaker 3: sound really new, agy but like we're sort of we're

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Speaker 3: channeling whatever strange spirit might inhabit the universe, and we're

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Speaker 3: also trying to make sense of it, and we're trying

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Speaker 3: to share it with other people because maybe in so

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Speaker 3: doing we create a better can action with them, and

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Speaker 3: also by sharing with other people, it helps the dialectic

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Speaker 3: that's contained in that process, we sort of understand everything

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Speaker 3: a little bit better, But ultimately it's just the selfish

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Speaker 3: joy of making things, and it's almost a compulsion because

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Speaker 3: and this might sound really obnoxious, but I don't understand

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Speaker 3: how people get through Quotitian life without having creative outlets. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that's I'm sorry if that sounds really entitled or presumptuous,

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Speaker 3: But I look at people's lives. I'm like, how do

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Speaker 3: you make sense of the world? How do you like?

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Speaker 3: How do you make sense of your life? How do

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Speaker 3: you fill your life with even purported meaning? If you're

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Speaker 3: not creating something?

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Speaker 2: Right, it's interesting that you say that that it comes

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Speaker 2: partially from a desire to share things with people. When

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Speaker 2: I assumed that part of it was to learn more

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Speaker 2: about yourself or make sense of, you know, your experience

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Speaker 2: or your thoughts or whatever it is, I thought of

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Speaker 2: it more as like an internal search.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I assume that that's a part of it,

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Speaker 3: but it's the age old thing of you know. Whoever

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Speaker 3: the person is the artist, the writer. If I wasn't

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Speaker 3: ashamed to use this term, I would say the sort

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Speaker 3: of the shaman. I mean, I feel dirty that that

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Speaker 3: word even came out of my mouth. But the person

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Speaker 3: who goes away has an experience and then comes back

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Speaker 3: and wants to share it. And that doesn't speak to

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Speaker 3: the quality of the experience, you know, because I'll never

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Speaker 3: and I don't mean to be like too self deprecating,

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Speaker 3: but I'll never speak to the quality of my work.

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Speaker 3: I'll never for a second say that anything I do

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Speaker 3: is good. But there's a lot of it, you know,

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Speaker 3: and hopefully some of it's good, and hopefully maybe if

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Speaker 3: I keep working at it. Like that's the idea, is

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Speaker 3: that you wake up every day and you keep working

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Speaker 3: in the hope that someday you start to get there.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so it's trying to get good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And the one other aspect of that is like,

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Speaker 3: for example, I never take days off. I work seven

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Speaker 3: days a week, and I don't take vacations. I don't

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Speaker 3: really socialize. I certainly don't date. Because when I'm doing

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Speaker 3: any of those things, there's a little part like in

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Speaker 3: the back of my head, I'm like, oh, what could

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Speaker 3: I have been making, like like by going to this party,

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Speaker 3: by going to such like a red carpet event, by

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Speaker 3: going on vacation. I'm like, oh, I could have made

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Speaker 3: something and it maybe maybe this would have been the

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Speaker 3: work of greatness that everything else was leading to. But

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Speaker 3: instead I'm at Disney World taking pictures with Mickey.

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Speaker 2: What if though, like a comedian, what if that gives

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Speaker 2: you material? What if going on you know, out to

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Speaker 2: dinner or going to a party, whatever.

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Speaker 4: It is a couple hours.

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Speaker 2: What if that gives you some sort of new perspective

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Speaker 2: and inspiration.

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. That used to be the case all the time

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Speaker 3: when I was living in New York, going out to

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Speaker 3: bars and nightclubs. Yeah, especially pre sobriety, because I would

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Speaker 3: go out and I would hear other DJs, and I

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Speaker 3: would listen to bands, and I would hear what people

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Speaker 3: were doing, and I would come home at two or

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Speaker 3: three in the morning inspired and turn on my studio

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Speaker 3: and channel that inspiration. So you're absolutely right, I am

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Speaker 3: missing out on that that potential for we'll call it

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Speaker 3: like real irl inspiration. But the problem there is it's

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Speaker 3: a it's a tiny percentage of time that yields that inspiration,

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Speaker 3: and more often than not, it's standing around awkwardly holding

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Speaker 3: a bottle of carbonated poland spring, smiling inanely while someone

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Speaker 3: tells me about a TV show they like, and I'm

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Speaker 3: not maligning TV or sparkling poland Spring. I'm just saying,

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Speaker 3: like I you know, most of the time, it's kind

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Speaker 3: of banell.

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Speaker 4: No, that's very true.

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Speaker 3: Like one of the greatest gifts anyone can ever give

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Speaker 3: me is canceling plans.

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Speaker 2: But you're also someone who has done so much, and

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Speaker 2: you've been everywhere. You've been a superstar and had everything

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Speaker 2: that comes along with that. You know, you've been on

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Speaker 2: the top, you've been on the bottom. You've been to

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Speaker 2: a million parties, you've been to every club, every concert,

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Speaker 2: you've been on stage, you've been in the crowd, so

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Speaker 2: you've sort of like experienced it all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, being fifty seven

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Speaker 3: years old and having had a very varied existence, you know,

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Speaker 3: experiencing wealth, experiencing poverty, living in a five level quintuplex

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Speaker 3: on Central Park West, but also squatting in an abandoned

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Speaker 3: factory in a crack neighborhood. And I love every single

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Speaker 3: thing I've experienced because it's given me perspective. And it's

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Speaker 3: also like, I think one of the greatest facets of

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Speaker 3: experiencing fame is that you can no longer romanticize fame. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we live in a culture, and again, forgive me for

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Speaker 3: stating the obvious, but we live in a culture where

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Speaker 3: fame is the pinnacle. Everybody wants fame, and if they

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Speaker 3: have fame, they want more fame, and it's people are

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Speaker 3: obsessed with fame. And I had it, and it's not

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Speaker 3: that great. Famous people, as you've probably experienced. Hopefully present

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Speaker 3: company may be possibly excluded, but famous people just tend

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Speaker 3: to be kind of like, more entitled, less interesting versions

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Speaker 3: of our friends. And I've been to you know, famous

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Speaker 3: people parties and birthday parties and politician parties, and like,

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Speaker 3: I have yet to meet a famous person who is smarter, funnier,

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Speaker 3: or more interesting than anybody else I grew up with.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that's because of the time in your

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Speaker 2: life when you met the people you grew up with,

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Speaker 2: Since those people sort of mold us, they're like our

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Speaker 2: archetypes in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: Except that I'm still largely in touch with most of

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Speaker 3: those people, and they still are, Like, my friends are

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Speaker 3: so much funnier and more interesting and more engaging and

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Speaker 3: more curious and less entitled than any of the famous

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Speaker 3: people I've ever met. And I've met I don't want

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Speaker 3: to malign any of the famous people I've met, like

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Speaker 3: they're all fine, but they don't really offer that much,

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Speaker 3: Like there is that, And I assume you've experienced this

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Speaker 3: as well, like with real like the big famous people,

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Speaker 3: like they do kind of feel like ninety percent of

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Speaker 3: the time them just showing up is enough. Yeah, And

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Speaker 3: the truth is, for most people it is like if

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Speaker 3: you're Brad Pitt, you don't really need to be the

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Speaker 3: greatest conversationalists in the world because if you show up,

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Speaker 3: the room comes to a halt. So I will say

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Speaker 3: that about fame, like I'm so glad I've experienced it,

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Speaker 3: because one, I also appreciate that it's given me a

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Speaker 3: platform to address issues that I care about. But also

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Speaker 3: it makes it so easy to not fetishize fame when

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Speaker 3: you've seen it up close.

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Speaker 2: And it's something that you really do a good job

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Speaker 2: in your memoirs of breaking that facade. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you thought you would feel a certain way when you

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Speaker 2: became famous or you had success, and you sounds like

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Speaker 2: you even felt worse.

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Speaker 3: Oh considerably worse. Because sorry to sound like a grad student,

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Speaker 3: but like everything does have an existential subtext or an

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Speaker 3: existential context. And what I mean by that is the

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Speaker 3: human condition is terrifying, baffling, and at times kind of horrifying.

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Speaker 3: Like best case scenario, you get old and die of

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Speaker 3: sad diseases, you know. And I was just reading about

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Speaker 3: how astronomers have discovered a super massive black hole. It's

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Speaker 3: relatively nearby, and it's as big as one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty billion of our sons And that's just one black

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Speaker 3: hole out of trillions. And you put it in perspective

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Speaker 3: and you're like, oh, so, here are these humans, these scared,

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Speaker 3: little hairless, vicious monkeys, pretending that our lives have significance,

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Speaker 3: pretending our lives have meaning. And maybe they do. I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying our lives don't have significance or meaning, but

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Speaker 3: there's a good chance the significance and meaning of our

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Speaker 3: lives is not what we imagine it to be. It's

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Speaker 3: certainly not material. So to that point of the existential

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Speaker 3: subtext of fame is like, as we experience every time

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Speaker 3: we look at the world around us, everyone's trying to

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Speaker 3: exempt themselves from the human condition, or they're trying to

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Speaker 3: win the human condition. And it's thinking that you could

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Speaker 3: either accomplish that with fame, with money, with beauty, with accolades,

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Speaker 3: with intelligence, even with cynicism, with drugs, with alcohol. It's

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Speaker 3: it's all this attempt to somehow circumvent and conquer the

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Speaker 3: human condition. And the reason I wrote those two memoirs

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Speaker 3: is because that's what I kept trying to do, you know,

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Speaker 3: to be like, Okay, when do you win, Like when,

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Speaker 3: like at what point do you you know, accomplish enough,

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Speaker 3: like whether through fame, materialism, accolades, what have you? When

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Speaker 3: do you feel like you have finally, Like Ahab conquered

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Speaker 3: Moby Dick. And there's a reason why I love my name,

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Speaker 3: which I didn't give myself, but is at the end,

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Speaker 3: Ahab is trying to conquer the unknowable, vast universe, and

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Speaker 3: of course he's destroyed by it. It's like if the

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Speaker 3: universe Las Vegas, the house always wins, like we as

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Speaker 3: humans can never win the existential conquest, and so the

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Speaker 3: only thing is to step back and have compassion for

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Speaker 3: ourselves and for the other people who are struggling through

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Speaker 3: the confusion of the human condition, and to learn from

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Speaker 3: it and hopefully have a little bit of observational maybe bemusement.

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Speaker 3: At least, this is after years of trying to beat

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Speaker 3: the human condition with so many different ways. This is

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Speaker 3: at least what I've come up with at this point.

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Speaker 3: It could be I'm completely mistaken and the way to

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Speaker 3: win the human condition is to go to Reno and

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Speaker 3: get hair plugs and get married to a stripper. I

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Speaker 3: have no idea.

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Speaker 2: What about money though, just you know, fame aside as

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Speaker 2: somebody who grew up with very little in poverty. You

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Speaker 2: talk about that a lot in your memoirs. What about

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Speaker 2: the point when all of a sudden you have money.

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Speaker 2: I mean, as someone who doesn't have a lot of money,

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Speaker 2: I don't. I feel like there are legitimate problems that

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Speaker 2: have money can solve. Oh, and it could buy happiness

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Speaker 2: in a way like it can buy some happiness.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if it did buy happiness, then Kanye and

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Speaker 3: Elon and Trump would be the happiest people on the planet.

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Speaker 3: And they are mentally ill lunatics. So what I will

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Speaker 3: say is having money, having a degree of money is

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Speaker 3: great when you're able to like pay the rent, or

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Speaker 3: you know, buy blueberries out of season, or take your

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Speaker 3: friends out to dinner and not worry about picking up

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Speaker 3: the tab like to be able to, you know, go

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Speaker 3: to a good dentist who maybe doesn't accept health insurance.

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Speaker 3: Like money, the practical application of financial security or financial

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Speaker 3: stability is great, and no one could pretend otherwise the

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Speaker 3: problem is going back to that idea of conquering the

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Speaker 3: human condition. Is like when people expect money to enable

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Speaker 3: you to transcend the human condition, that's when you end

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Speaker 3: up in the White White House, eating hamberg or screaming

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Speaker 3: at the television. You know, that's when you're elon on

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Speaker 3: a private plane, microdosing acid and posting on Twitter eight

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Speaker 3: hundred times a day about right wing conspiracy theories. Like

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Speaker 3: money is great for practical reasons, but beyond that, and

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Speaker 3: the evidence is everywhere if we're willing to look at it,

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Speaker 3: beyond practical application, money doesn't fix anything.

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Speaker 4: That's very true.

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Speaker 2: Just seems like when you're when you don't have a

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Speaker 2: lot of it, all problems, you know, do come back

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Speaker 2: to money.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean it's tricky because because I grew up

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Speaker 3: very poor, everyone in my family was very poor. The

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Speaker 3: weird thing, when I was growing up poor, there was

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Speaker 3: almost never talk of money. Like my aunts, my uncles,

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Speaker 3: my mom, all their friends, like everybody was like working

295
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Speaker 3: New England poor, being a sculptor, being a painter, but

296
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Speaker 3: never making more than minimum wage. And the weird thing,

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Speaker 3: no one ever complained. And of course there was talk

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Speaker 3: of like, oh, you know, I need to get snow

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Speaker 3: tires from my car and I can't afford it. Winter's

300
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Speaker 3: coming up. We need to go get winter jackets, so

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Speaker 3: we're going to Salvation Army or Goodwill. But I was

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Speaker 3: just like we all just sort of accepted it. So

303
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Speaker 3: when I left home and I was as broke as

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Speaker 3: anybody I know has ever been. I was living in

305
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Speaker 3: an abandoned factory, making on average two thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have running water, but it was okay. I

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Speaker 3: was like, man, that's okay. I don't necessarily want to

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Speaker 3: go back to it. But the strange thing, and I

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Speaker 3: know this might sound like cliched public figure, relatively affluent narrative,

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Speaker 3: but like, I was way happier with my friends in

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Speaker 3: the abandoned factory when I was making two thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: a year, then by myself in a quintuplex on Central

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Speaker 3: Park West, bottoming out as a drug addict.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I read also that when you bought

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Speaker 2: the castle in La you at a certain point moved

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Speaker 2: into a closet and just slept in there.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, actually the closet. I have slept in a

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Speaker 3: lot of closets, but the closet was. I had this

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Speaker 3: crazy compound upstate in Kent, New York. It's in Putnam County,

320
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Speaker 3: and it was my sort of degenerate Sylvan country party pad.

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Speaker 3: And it was great for that. It had a disco.

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Speaker 3: It was sixty acres adjacent to three hundred acre state park.

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Speaker 3: It was a phenomenal party palace. And I built this

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Speaker 3: bedroom that was roughly as big as the house I

325
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Speaker 3: grew up in, this massive, you know, huge bedroom you

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Speaker 3: could like land an airplane in. But I couldn't sleep

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Speaker 3: in it. It was too big, and it was too bright

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Speaker 3: because I had so much all these skylights and all

329
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Speaker 3: this glass, and so I dragged my futon into the

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Speaker 3: walk in closet and I had to sleep in the closet.

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Speaker 4: How long was that place fun for?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was the most fun place in the world.

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Speaker 3: At one am before I got sober, you know, and

334
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Speaker 3: I had thirty people come up from New York, and

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Speaker 3: there was the disco. There was a spa there. I mean,

336
00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:20,796
Speaker 3: it was really flawless when it came to one am, drunken,

337
00:20:20,876 --> 00:20:24,596
Speaker 3: drug fueled debauchery eight o'clock in the morning, when the

338
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Speaker 3: sun came up and you felt like throwing up, and

339
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Speaker 3: you realized that the hot tub in the spa was

340
00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:34,956
Speaker 3: the color and consistency of split pea soup. And that's

341
00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:38,516
Speaker 3: when you realize, oh, that's right. No matter how much

342
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Speaker 3: fun one am is, you can't avoid the eight am,

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Speaker 3: dark morning of the soul.

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Speaker 2: Just thinking back on that period of your life, is

345
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Speaker 2: there anyone that you keep in touch with from those days?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? My actually, my girlfriend from that time. She and

347
00:20:55,276 --> 00:20:57,476
Speaker 3: I are still really good friends. Like a lot of

348
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Speaker 3: people from then I haven't stayed in that much touch

349
00:21:01,916 --> 00:21:04,956
Speaker 3: with because some of them are like still out trying

350
00:21:04,996 --> 00:21:10,156
Speaker 3: to live the dream, and you know, people who've moved

351
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Speaker 3: to Miami and are really exploring where cocaine addiction can

352
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Speaker 3: take you, Like it's kind of hard to stay friends

353
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Speaker 3: with them. But like the people who've gotten sober, the

354
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Speaker 3: people who sort of aged out of it, like some

355
00:21:24,316 --> 00:21:28,716
Speaker 3: of my good friends definitely are in the same boat

356
00:21:28,756 --> 00:21:34,036
Speaker 3: as me. Is, like we emerged relatively unscathed, where you know,

357
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Speaker 3: we can be old people who meet up and drink

358
00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:41,916
Speaker 3: smoothies and talk about what it used to be like

359
00:21:42,196 --> 00:21:45,276
Speaker 3: to gobble xanax and vic it in at nine o'clock

360
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Speaker 3: in the morning just to try and fall asleep after

361
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Speaker 3: doing so much cocaine.

362
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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you meet people or when you're recognized on

363
00:21:52,916 --> 00:21:55,716
Speaker 2: the street, people come up and talk to you. Is

364
00:21:55,756 --> 00:21:59,916
Speaker 2: there something that people ask you about that surprises you.

365
00:22:00,596 --> 00:22:04,836
Speaker 3: I mean one of the main things that I've been

366
00:22:04,916 --> 00:22:10,196
Speaker 3: asked lately is, you know, when I earned fifty I

367
00:22:10,236 --> 00:22:15,516
Speaker 3: started getting vegan tattoos on my body, And so that's

368
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Speaker 3: the main question. And it's not really even me being recognized.

369
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Speaker 3: It's just random people saying, hey, why do you have

370
00:22:22,276 --> 00:22:24,076
Speaker 3: Vegan for Life tattooed on your neck? Why do you

371
00:22:24,076 --> 00:22:26,516
Speaker 3: have animal rights tattooed on your arms? So I guess

372
00:22:26,516 --> 00:22:29,276
Speaker 3: that's not there's nothing surprising about that, because when you

373
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Speaker 3: have giant letters tattooed on your body, it's not surprising

374
00:22:33,556 --> 00:22:35,036
Speaker 3: that people would ask you about it.

375
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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, do you wish that you got them like

376
00:22:37,996 --> 00:22:40,836
Speaker 2: thirty years ago? Especially in the hardcore scene, in the

377
00:22:40,836 --> 00:22:41,756
Speaker 2: punk rock scene.

378
00:22:42,236 --> 00:22:46,076
Speaker 3: Well, so here's the thing in nineteen ninety five, I

379
00:22:46,236 --> 00:22:49,916
Speaker 3: had my sort of we'll call it like my big

380
00:22:49,956 --> 00:22:53,636
Speaker 3: alternative music year, and I went on tour with the

381
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Speaker 3: Chili Peppers and the Flaming Lips and I did Lollapalooza

382
00:22:58,036 --> 00:23:02,236
Speaker 3: with Sonic Youth and Beck and Pavement and my album

383
00:23:02,236 --> 00:23:05,036
Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety five, Everything is Wrong with Spin's Album

384
00:23:05,076 --> 00:23:07,756
Speaker 3: of the Year, and like it was like this big

385
00:23:08,596 --> 00:23:11,636
Speaker 3: indie year for me, because before that I'd just been

386
00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:15,756
Speaker 3: like a sort of shy, retiring nerdy I was still

387
00:23:15,756 --> 00:23:18,156
Speaker 3: a shy, retiring, nerdy techno guy. But suddenly I was

388
00:23:18,196 --> 00:23:21,156
Speaker 3: on tour with the Chili Peppers, and everybody in the

389
00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:23,236
Speaker 3: Chili Peppers and in their band and crew they all

390
00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:27,836
Speaker 3: had tattoos, and I wanted to get tattoos. And what

391
00:23:27,956 --> 00:23:31,996
Speaker 3: I really wanted to get were those tribal tattoos that

392
00:23:32,156 --> 00:23:36,596
Speaker 3: bouncers at strip clubs have totally and so I'm there.

393
00:23:36,796 --> 00:23:39,596
Speaker 3: So to your point, I'm thrilled that I did not

394
00:23:39,716 --> 00:23:43,236
Speaker 3: get tattoos back then, because if I had, I would

395
00:23:43,276 --> 00:23:47,076
Speaker 3: be one of those middle aged guys with faded tribal tattoos,

396
00:23:47,156 --> 00:23:49,316
Speaker 3: which on some people it can be a good look,

397
00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:52,076
Speaker 3: but it would not like as my old skin starts

398
00:23:52,116 --> 00:23:55,156
Speaker 3: to sag. It would definitely not be all that attractive.

399
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Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break and then we'll

400
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Speaker 1: be back with more from Lea Rose and Moby. We're

401
00:24:04,596 --> 00:24:06,836
Speaker 1: back with Moby and Lea Rose.

402
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Speaker 2: In your movie and punk Rock Vegan Movie. It was

403
00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:14,876
Speaker 2: really interesting that you made the connection between punk rock

404
00:24:14,916 --> 00:24:17,316
Speaker 2: and compassion, because I think for a lot of people

405
00:24:17,316 --> 00:24:20,116
Speaker 2: when they think of punk rock, they think of skepticism

406
00:24:20,316 --> 00:24:24,636
Speaker 2: and like middle Finger to the establishment. It's not usually compassion.

407
00:24:24,876 --> 00:24:28,156
Speaker 2: That's one of the first ideas that is equated with

408
00:24:28,196 --> 00:24:30,956
Speaker 2: punk rock, and you really made that point very beautifully.

409
00:24:31,356 --> 00:24:35,276
Speaker 2: Can you talk about when you discovered that compassion was

410
00:24:35,396 --> 00:24:37,956
Speaker 2: a part of that scene, well.

411
00:24:37,836 --> 00:24:40,996
Speaker 3: Part of it. I remember my first exposure to the

412
00:24:40,996 --> 00:24:44,156
Speaker 3: world of punk rock and veganism was in nineteen eighty two.

413
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Speaker 3: My band the Vatican Commandos, with a whole bunch of

414
00:24:47,756 --> 00:24:51,756
Speaker 3: other Connecticut hardcore bands, we drove to Akron, Ohio to

415
00:24:51,796 --> 00:24:54,556
Speaker 3: play a show in a pizza parlor. It's like a

416
00:24:54,596 --> 00:24:58,956
Speaker 3: twelve hour drive. There were more people in the bands

417
00:24:58,996 --> 00:25:01,716
Speaker 3: than were in the audience at the pizza parlor, but

418
00:25:02,276 --> 00:25:05,036
Speaker 3: we slept on the floor of what turned out to

419
00:25:05,076 --> 00:25:09,796
Speaker 3: be a vegan squat. And I remember so clearly waking

420
00:25:09,876 --> 00:25:12,756
Speaker 3: up on the floor of this squat and I didn't

421
00:25:12,756 --> 00:25:14,596
Speaker 3: even know what a squat was. I was a fifteen

422
00:25:14,716 --> 00:25:18,436
Speaker 3: year old suburban kid, and this guy was a blue

423
00:25:18,476 --> 00:25:21,556
Speaker 3: mohawk walked into the living room of the squat and said, hey,

424
00:25:22,076 --> 00:25:25,476
Speaker 3: welcome to Akron. We made lentils. And I didn't know

425
00:25:25,516 --> 00:25:28,036
Speaker 3: what a lentil was, and he said, yeah, this is

426
00:25:28,036 --> 00:25:31,116
Speaker 3: a vegan squat, you know, welcome. You're all welcome. And

427
00:25:31,156 --> 00:25:33,596
Speaker 3: I'd never heard the word vegan before because I was

428
00:25:33,596 --> 00:25:38,116
Speaker 3: a McDonald's eating kid, and I thought this was so

429
00:25:38,356 --> 00:25:43,236
Speaker 3: weird that, like these punk rockers ate beans. Lo and Behold.

430
00:25:43,236 --> 00:25:45,956
Speaker 3: Two years later, I became a vegetarian and nineteen eighty

431
00:25:45,996 --> 00:25:51,316
Speaker 3: seven became a vegan. And my understanding in the eighties

432
00:25:51,396 --> 00:25:54,516
Speaker 3: when I became a vegetarian and a vegan, the vegan

433
00:25:54,556 --> 00:25:57,876
Speaker 3: world was weird punk rockers. You know, there were a

434
00:25:57,876 --> 00:26:00,716
Speaker 3: few hippies, but for the most part it was you know,

435
00:26:01,076 --> 00:26:04,996
Speaker 3: Youth of Today and Gorilla Biscuits and the Cromags and

436
00:26:05,236 --> 00:26:11,396
Speaker 3: you know SIV so I had. I've always associated veganism

437
00:26:11,436 --> 00:26:13,636
Speaker 3: with punk rock, and then Lo and Behold, it turns

438
00:26:13,676 --> 00:26:17,436
Speaker 3: out most people weren't aware of that relationship, and the

439
00:26:17,516 --> 00:26:23,516
Speaker 3: compassionate side is so easy to miss. Yeah, I brought

440
00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:25,836
Speaker 3: some friends. I think it was like a Youth of

441
00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:29,396
Speaker 3: Today show, maybe H two O were on the bill,

442
00:26:30,396 --> 00:26:33,796
Speaker 3: these straight edge vegan bands, and I brought some friends

443
00:26:33,796 --> 00:26:35,796
Speaker 3: to the show. And my friends were horrified because they'd

444
00:26:35,796 --> 00:26:40,476
Speaker 3: never been to a hardcore show before, and they were

445
00:26:40,596 --> 00:26:44,916
Speaker 3: genuinely taken aback, like it was so loud and screaming

446
00:26:44,996 --> 00:26:48,236
Speaker 3: and stage diving, and I tried to tell my friends.

447
00:26:48,276 --> 00:26:50,796
Speaker 3: I was like, no, those musicians are the most principled,

448
00:26:50,796 --> 00:26:55,796
Speaker 3: ethical musicians I've ever met. And the lyrics are all about,

449
00:26:55,916 --> 00:26:58,636
Speaker 3: you know, supporting your community and doing the right thing,

450
00:26:58,796 --> 00:27:03,516
Speaker 3: and it's almost like nineteen fifties cliches about straight edge,

451
00:27:03,796 --> 00:27:06,596
Speaker 3: you know, about like clean living. But my friends were like, no,

452
00:27:06,636 --> 00:27:08,476
Speaker 3: they're just screaming and jumping off the stage. So I

453
00:27:08,556 --> 00:27:12,916
Speaker 3: understand how it's very hard to get past the screaming

454
00:27:12,956 --> 00:27:15,436
Speaker 3: and the stage diving to realize that, like a use

455
00:27:15,436 --> 00:27:20,756
Speaker 3: of Today lyric is like beautiful and extolling and exalting

456
00:27:20,836 --> 00:27:22,116
Speaker 3: the virtue of compassion.

457
00:27:22,796 --> 00:27:26,436
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's funny with the vegan in the community

458
00:27:26,476 --> 00:27:28,956
Speaker 2: and squats and stuff like that. I always associated that

459
00:27:29,116 --> 00:27:32,716
Speaker 2: more with hippies and jam bands and that type of

460
00:27:32,756 --> 00:27:36,836
Speaker 2: lifestyle and the connection between punk rock and maybe that

461
00:27:36,956 --> 00:27:42,676
Speaker 2: hippie scene, other than maybe veganism vegetarianism. And I realize

462
00:27:42,716 --> 00:27:44,956
Speaker 2: this watching your movie is a Hari Krishnas. It's like

463
00:27:45,036 --> 00:27:46,716
Speaker 2: they were showing up everywhere.

464
00:27:47,236 --> 00:27:49,716
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, use it today with you know, Ray

465
00:27:49,836 --> 00:27:53,276
Speaker 3: and Purcell and the Cromags and then Shelter. There was

466
00:27:53,316 --> 00:27:57,516
Speaker 3: a lot like the Krishna connection, especially in the East

467
00:27:57,556 --> 00:28:00,796
Speaker 3: Village in the eighties. You know, you had prana foods.

468
00:28:01,436 --> 00:28:04,796
Speaker 3: The word prana, I believe is Sanskrit for life, for

469
00:28:04,996 --> 00:28:09,516
Speaker 3: us or breath. So yeah, there was definitely And I

470
00:28:09,516 --> 00:28:13,676
Speaker 3: don't know anything about Krishna or I've never read the

471
00:28:13,716 --> 00:28:17,236
Speaker 3: bog of Adgita. My friend Eddie and Mike Dee are

472
00:28:17,356 --> 00:28:21,036
Speaker 3: very much into the Hindu yoga world. I don't know

473
00:28:21,196 --> 00:28:25,116
Speaker 3: anything about it, but that definitely was a fertile ground

474
00:28:25,276 --> 00:28:28,996
Speaker 3: for getting people like John Joseph from the Chromags and

475
00:28:29,596 --> 00:28:36,356
Speaker 3: Ray and Purcell and some other people interested in yeah, philosophical,

476
00:28:36,716 --> 00:28:42,516
Speaker 3: compassionate living. And I don't know, Yeah, honestly, without that encouragement,

477
00:28:42,556 --> 00:28:46,716
Speaker 3: it's possible that the punk rock vegan connection wouldn't have

478
00:28:46,836 --> 00:28:48,036
Speaker 3: been as strong.

479
00:28:48,436 --> 00:28:51,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I remember seeing them in like Washington Square

480
00:28:51,596 --> 00:28:54,116
Speaker 2: Park or you know. I used to live on First

481
00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:56,036
Speaker 2: and First and there was some sort of like Krishna

482
00:28:56,116 --> 00:28:59,196
Speaker 2: temple right there, like near East Village Radio.

483
00:28:59,716 --> 00:29:02,356
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's where I got sober. Really, when I

484
00:29:02,396 --> 00:29:05,756
Speaker 3: say that's where I got sober, I mean literally specifically

485
00:29:05,796 --> 00:29:08,316
Speaker 3: in that building. There was an AA meeting on the

486
00:29:08,396 --> 00:29:12,956
Speaker 3: third floor of that temple. And so when I finally

487
00:29:12,996 --> 00:29:15,236
Speaker 3: bottomed out as an alcoholic and a drug addict, I

488
00:29:15,316 --> 00:29:18,916
Speaker 3: went to the one PM Living Now AA meeting and

489
00:29:18,956 --> 00:29:22,836
Speaker 3: it was non denomination on, nothing to do with Krishna

490
00:29:22,916 --> 00:29:25,876
Speaker 3: or Krishna Murti or you know, any of the people

491
00:29:25,876 --> 00:29:29,636
Speaker 3: they venerated, but it was every day for about two

492
00:29:29,716 --> 00:29:31,716
Speaker 3: years I went to that temple and had to take

493
00:29:31,756 --> 00:29:34,836
Speaker 3: off my shoes and sit to go to this AA meeting.

494
00:29:35,876 --> 00:29:39,476
Speaker 2: Was there any feeling of I don't belong here, Well.

495
00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:42,516
Speaker 3: That's funny. I've gone to some twelve Step groups that

496
00:29:42,636 --> 00:29:45,676
Speaker 3: I don't belong in because there's so many different types

497
00:29:45,716 --> 00:29:47,716
Speaker 3: of twelve Step groups and some of which I just

498
00:29:47,836 --> 00:29:51,556
Speaker 3: I don't identify as being a part of them. But

499
00:29:51,636 --> 00:29:55,316
Speaker 3: when I went to AA it was a puzzle piece.

500
00:29:55,356 --> 00:29:57,276
Speaker 3: It was the Rosetta stone, it was you know. I

501
00:29:57,316 --> 00:30:00,796
Speaker 3: was like, oh, yep, because from the first drink I had,

502
00:30:01,356 --> 00:30:03,716
Speaker 3: I kind of knew I was an alcoholic. I had

503
00:30:03,756 --> 00:30:07,276
Speaker 3: never once in my life drank in moderation. My father

504
00:30:07,476 --> 00:30:12,436
Speaker 3: killed himself drunk every everybody. My grandfather drank every day

505
00:30:12,476 --> 00:30:16,076
Speaker 3: of his life. Like, I don't remember being around sober

506
00:30:16,676 --> 00:30:20,756
Speaker 3: adults until I was maybe in my twenties. So, you know,

507
00:30:20,796 --> 00:30:24,316
Speaker 3: when I finally really sat down in a you know,

508
00:30:24,356 --> 00:30:27,956
Speaker 3: at that living now meeting where you used to live,

509
00:30:28,516 --> 00:30:30,796
Speaker 3: I was like, yep, this is me. I wish it wasn't.

510
00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:32,356
Speaker 3: I wish I wasn't. I wish it was a way

511
00:30:32,396 --> 00:30:34,156
Speaker 3: around this. I wish there was a way I could

512
00:30:34,276 --> 00:30:38,076
Speaker 3: keep drinking and doing drugs and not body me out.

513
00:30:38,076 --> 00:30:40,316
Speaker 3: But I was like, no, the last twenty years have

514
00:30:40,436 --> 00:30:43,276
Speaker 3: proven to me just I'm just an old timey alcoholic.

515
00:30:43,796 --> 00:30:46,796
Speaker 2: But that feeling of finding a puzzle piece must just

516
00:30:46,996 --> 00:30:48,716
Speaker 2: be incredible.

517
00:30:49,636 --> 00:30:52,716
Speaker 3: It's terrible when that puzzle piece means you can no

518
00:30:52,796 --> 00:30:57,636
Speaker 3: longer go out and be a drunk, you know, Like,

519
00:30:58,476 --> 00:31:01,276
Speaker 3: in some ways I'm glad because there's no wiggle room. Like,

520
00:31:01,556 --> 00:31:03,116
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people, as I'm sure you

521
00:31:03,196 --> 00:31:06,956
Speaker 3: do as well, who spend years trying to figure out

522
00:31:07,076 --> 00:31:10,716
Speaker 3: if they're an alcoholic, a drug addict, or an addict

523
00:31:10,796 --> 00:31:14,396
Speaker 3: of some sort. So there's there's something nice in having

524
00:31:14,396 --> 00:31:17,236
Speaker 3: the certainty around that of just knowing, like, yep, I'm

525
00:31:17,236 --> 00:31:19,876
Speaker 3: an alcoholic. So when I go to meetings and raise

526
00:31:19,916 --> 00:31:21,756
Speaker 3: my hand and say, yup, I'm obi I'm an alcoholic,

527
00:31:22,636 --> 00:31:26,876
Speaker 3: there's no doubt. You know, I have decades of evidence

528
00:31:27,276 --> 00:31:30,436
Speaker 3: proving yeah, that I'm an alcoholic, so I never have

529
00:31:30,516 --> 00:31:33,756
Speaker 3: to question it, which is there's a great comfort in that.

530
00:31:33,916 --> 00:31:37,556
Speaker 3: But for years I was like, oh, isn't there some

531
00:31:37,636 --> 00:31:40,316
Speaker 3: way around this? Isn't there some way I can keep

532
00:31:41,116 --> 00:31:43,996
Speaker 3: going to Max Fish every night until four o'clock in

533
00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:44,476
Speaker 3: the morning.

534
00:31:45,076 --> 00:31:47,916
Speaker 2: But the interesting thing I found was that you, in

535
00:31:47,956 --> 00:31:50,556
Speaker 2: all your years making music, you always made music sober.

536
00:31:51,796 --> 00:31:56,596
Speaker 3: I tried once, and only once, to write music drunk,

537
00:31:57,516 --> 00:32:00,476
Speaker 3: because I thought to myself, well, some of my favorite

538
00:32:00,556 --> 00:32:04,156
Speaker 3: musicians pretty much only made music when they were drunk.

539
00:32:04,556 --> 00:32:07,316
Speaker 3: I mean, some of the best records anyone's ever made

540
00:32:07,956 --> 00:32:10,636
Speaker 3: are records that were made, you know, fueled by cocaine,

541
00:32:10,676 --> 00:32:13,236
Speaker 3: fueled by heroin, whether it's you know, the Velvet Underground

542
00:32:13,276 --> 00:32:17,636
Speaker 3: or Station to Station or exile on Main Street, physical graffiti.

543
00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:20,556
Speaker 3: I guess all the gun Club records on and on

544
00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:24,276
Speaker 3: and on, these amazing alcohol fueled, drug fueled records, and

545
00:32:24,316 --> 00:32:26,116
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, I'm going to try

546
00:32:26,156 --> 00:32:30,036
Speaker 3: and write a song drunk. And it was bad. And

547
00:32:30,076 --> 00:32:34,516
Speaker 3: it was bad in a way that made me nauseous.

548
00:32:34,796 --> 00:32:40,156
Speaker 3: It was just it had a mediocrity that was like sludgy. Yeah,

549
00:32:40,196 --> 00:32:43,316
Speaker 3: I was a falling down, bottomed out alcoholic drug addict,

550
00:32:43,356 --> 00:32:49,076
Speaker 3: but I would never profane my studio by being drunk

551
00:32:49,196 --> 00:32:53,236
Speaker 3: or high in my studio. Other people like Oasis on

552
00:32:53,276 --> 00:32:56,556
Speaker 3: and on like made amazing drug fueled alcohol field records.

553
00:32:56,556 --> 00:32:57,836
Speaker 3: I just could never be that person.

554
00:32:58,956 --> 00:33:00,956
Speaker 2: It sounds like you wanted to protect the thing that

555
00:33:00,996 --> 00:33:03,156
Speaker 2: was the most important to you and not bring the

556
00:33:03,236 --> 00:33:05,916
Speaker 2: sludge into the thing you cared about the most.

557
00:33:06,036 --> 00:33:08,756
Speaker 3: Yeah. That and veganism, like from nineteen eighty seven I

558
00:33:08,756 --> 00:33:12,316
Speaker 3: went via and there was never a question like that

559
00:33:12,436 --> 00:33:15,036
Speaker 3: was never compromised. So those two things, like working on

560
00:33:15,156 --> 00:33:20,156
Speaker 3: music and being a vegan, those the only two things

561
00:33:20,876 --> 00:33:25,276
Speaker 3: that never got compromised during all the years of egregious compromise.

562
00:33:26,676 --> 00:33:28,276
Speaker 2: Was there a period of time where you made a

563
00:33:28,356 --> 00:33:32,036
Speaker 2: jump from making punk rock music to electronic music or

564
00:33:32,076 --> 00:33:33,516
Speaker 2: did they overlap?

565
00:33:33,916 --> 00:33:35,796
Speaker 3: You know, and I think if you were to talk

566
00:33:35,836 --> 00:33:39,636
Speaker 3: to Rick or anyone in the Beastie Boys, or even

567
00:33:39,996 --> 00:33:44,436
Speaker 3: Madonna or anyone who used to hang out in dance Atyria,

568
00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:50,436
Speaker 3: it's the danceteria eclecticism of you know, when I first

569
00:33:50,436 --> 00:33:53,156
Speaker 3: went to Dance Atyria, I went there to see the

570
00:33:53,156 --> 00:33:55,036
Speaker 3: Bad Brains or I went there to see a mission

571
00:33:55,036 --> 00:33:58,756
Speaker 3: of Burma. But by being in this incredible space, this

572
00:33:58,916 --> 00:34:03,276
Speaker 3: super cool space, you were exposed to hip hop, to

573
00:34:03,836 --> 00:34:06,916
Speaker 3: burgeoning house. And this was nineteen eighty two, so five

574
00:34:06,996 --> 00:34:12,356
Speaker 3: years before house music, but electronic music and all this eclecticism.

575
00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:15,436
Speaker 3: You know, New York in the early eighties almost went

576
00:34:15,516 --> 00:34:17,996
Speaker 3: out of its way to be eclectic. You know, you'd

577
00:34:17,996 --> 00:34:21,036
Speaker 3: go to see a punk rock band and beforehand they'd

578
00:34:21,036 --> 00:34:25,436
Speaker 3: be playing Johnny Cash and reggae, and that eclecticism was

579
00:34:25,516 --> 00:34:30,316
Speaker 3: so cool and so interesting, and it didn't come naturally

580
00:34:30,356 --> 00:34:33,876
Speaker 3: to me, but it was so interesting and so appealing

581
00:34:34,076 --> 00:34:36,476
Speaker 3: that I embraced it, and it just sort of wove

582
00:34:36,556 --> 00:34:39,076
Speaker 3: its way into my musical DNA. So then from that

583
00:34:39,156 --> 00:34:43,396
Speaker 3: point on, it never made sense to me to focus

584
00:34:43,436 --> 00:34:47,796
Speaker 3: on one style of music exclusively when there was so

585
00:34:48,036 --> 00:34:54,236
Speaker 3: much to be gained from being weirdly eclectic totally.

586
00:34:54,716 --> 00:34:57,636
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about the new album.

587
00:34:57,716 --> 00:35:02,756
Speaker 2: So the new album resound NYC. So the little pr

588
00:35:02,876 --> 00:35:07,076
Speaker 2: line that I have about it is it's reimagines and orchestra.

589
00:35:07,156 --> 00:35:10,316
Speaker 4: It's fifteen of your most icon tracks.

590
00:35:10,316 --> 00:35:12,196
Speaker 3: Even though half of them no one's ever heard before.

591
00:35:12,196 --> 00:35:15,556
Speaker 2: But yeah, recorded in New York between ninety four and

592
00:35:15,596 --> 00:35:20,076
Speaker 2: twenty ten, And looking at the liner notes, a lot

593
00:35:20,116 --> 00:35:26,636
Speaker 2: of the songs, if not every song, you play percussion, keys, bass, guitar,

594
00:35:27,476 --> 00:35:30,316
Speaker 2: add vocals on a lot of them. You recorded a

595
00:35:30,316 --> 00:35:33,116
Speaker 2: lot of them yourself. So when you were sitting down

596
00:35:33,476 --> 00:35:36,716
Speaker 2: to reimagine the songs, did you have to put yourself

597
00:35:36,916 --> 00:35:39,796
Speaker 2: in sort of like the headspace of being back in

598
00:35:39,836 --> 00:35:41,716
Speaker 2: New York in the nineties.

599
00:35:42,396 --> 00:35:44,396
Speaker 3: I mean, there's that, and the same thing with writing

600
00:35:44,436 --> 00:35:51,156
Speaker 3: those memoirs. It's a really odd contrast. Like, for example,

601
00:35:51,196 --> 00:35:54,996
Speaker 3: the first memoir, like I was writing about like these

602
00:35:55,356 --> 00:35:59,796
Speaker 3: as you read it, it's like these really grimy, degenerate experiences,

603
00:36:00,236 --> 00:36:03,316
Speaker 3: while I was like sitting in my living room sober

604
00:36:03,476 --> 00:36:07,756
Speaker 3: drinking organic white tea on a beautiful Los Angeles day,

605
00:36:07,836 --> 00:36:13,236
Speaker 3: Like it was so odd comparing and contrasting here and

606
00:36:13,316 --> 00:36:18,756
Speaker 3: now with there and then and with music like one

607
00:36:18,756 --> 00:36:21,796
Speaker 3: of the most wonderful things. And it's not just my

608
00:36:21,996 --> 00:36:25,356
Speaker 3: music for me, but the idea of music as it's

609
00:36:25,436 --> 00:36:29,276
Speaker 3: like a time portal. It's like a little sonic wormhole

610
00:36:30,036 --> 00:36:35,316
Speaker 3: and revisiting who we were when, like in my case,

611
00:36:35,316 --> 00:36:38,476
Speaker 3: when I wrote something, when I released something, but even

612
00:36:38,516 --> 00:36:41,796
Speaker 3: hearing songs from a certain period to state the obvious,

613
00:36:41,836 --> 00:36:46,116
Speaker 3: whether it's the seventies, the eighties, the nineties, whenever, remembering

614
00:36:47,356 --> 00:36:50,996
Speaker 3: like you know, what we were wearing, what the world

615
00:36:51,076 --> 00:36:55,476
Speaker 3: looked like, who was president. And it's such an almost

616
00:36:55,556 --> 00:37:01,756
Speaker 3: like somatic, tactile way of actually revisiting the past. Like

617
00:37:01,996 --> 00:37:03,756
Speaker 3: I don't know about you, but like if I listened to,

618
00:37:03,916 --> 00:37:08,916
Speaker 3: like one of my favorite songs from ninet te let's

619
00:37:08,916 --> 00:37:13,676
Speaker 3: say eighty seven, I can remember like it. It's not academic,

620
00:37:13,796 --> 00:37:17,356
Speaker 3: it's not like a description of nineteen eighty seven. It's

621
00:37:17,356 --> 00:37:22,236
Speaker 3: a physical memoryeah. And that's even enhanced when it's a

622
00:37:22,276 --> 00:37:26,036
Speaker 3: song that you've written and you know, I remember, like

623
00:37:26,796 --> 00:37:29,556
Speaker 3: what was going on in the world, what my studio

624
00:37:29,676 --> 00:37:32,956
Speaker 3: looked like and it's it's such an interesting way of

625
00:37:32,996 --> 00:37:38,596
Speaker 3: gaining perspective on who we are now. But there is

626
00:37:39,516 --> 00:37:41,316
Speaker 3: and and this is the sad part, if I'm being

627
00:37:42,076 --> 00:37:46,756
Speaker 3: really honest, there's a very depressing aspect to it, which

628
00:37:46,796 --> 00:37:49,996
Speaker 3: is not just being old and one day closer to death,

629
00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:53,956
Speaker 3: but the fact that and this is so depressing it's

630
00:37:53,956 --> 00:37:57,356
Speaker 3: almost even like hard to address that. In the nineties

631
00:37:58,316 --> 00:38:02,556
Speaker 3: everything was optimistic, and we it was so optimistic, we

632
00:38:02,636 --> 00:38:05,596
Speaker 3: didn't even know it was optimistic. But like I look

633
00:38:05,676 --> 00:38:08,196
Speaker 3: back at it, and like Bill Clinton was president, and

634
00:38:08,276 --> 00:38:11,436
Speaker 3: like the Soviet Union had ended, and Russia was thinking

635
00:38:11,476 --> 00:38:15,356
Speaker 3: of joining the EC, and China was enacting democratic reforms,

636
00:38:15,436 --> 00:38:18,396
Speaker 3: and the Internet was going to be this wonderful force

637
00:38:18,476 --> 00:38:22,396
Speaker 3: that brought us together and enabled the communication of great ideas.

638
00:38:23,116 --> 00:38:26,156
Speaker 3: Climate change at that point wasn't even an al Gore book.

639
00:38:26,316 --> 00:38:31,516
Speaker 3: Like the world was so optimistic, and culture was interesting,

640
00:38:31,996 --> 00:38:35,316
Speaker 3: and sure there were bad things, but it seemed like

641
00:38:36,956 --> 00:38:39,876
Speaker 3: history had gotten to the point where we had learned

642
00:38:39,876 --> 00:38:41,956
Speaker 3: from the old mistakes and we were going to move

643
00:38:42,036 --> 00:38:46,676
Speaker 3: past them, and we were going to have young, smart, progressive,

644
00:38:46,956 --> 00:38:50,716
Speaker 3: educated leaders, and we were moving into this new future

645
00:38:51,276 --> 00:38:56,036
Speaker 3: and boy, oh boy, were we wrong. So I don't know,

646
00:38:56,436 --> 00:38:59,036
Speaker 3: even if you talk to Gen Z people and millennials, like,

647
00:38:59,556 --> 00:39:03,116
Speaker 3: there just doesn't seem to be ough so depressing, but

648
00:39:03,116 --> 00:39:07,076
Speaker 3: there doesn't seem to be much optimism if any you know. Yeah, yeah,

649
00:39:07,116 --> 00:39:09,876
Speaker 3: I'm really glad that we grew up at a time

650
00:39:10,036 --> 00:39:13,316
Speaker 3: when optimism was actually sort of empirically supported.

651
00:39:14,316 --> 00:39:17,076
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, like, are you happy

652
00:39:17,116 --> 00:39:19,676
Speaker 2: that you were born when you were Yes.

653
00:39:19,556 --> 00:39:22,316
Speaker 3: I'm very glad I was born in nineteen sixty five

654
00:39:23,156 --> 00:39:28,116
Speaker 3: because being nine years old in the seventies and listening

655
00:39:28,116 --> 00:39:32,276
Speaker 3: to AM radio in the morning and hearing every from

656
00:39:32,316 --> 00:39:35,596
Speaker 3: the Eagle to Elton John to Queen to led Zeppelin

657
00:39:35,996 --> 00:39:38,356
Speaker 3: to Paul McCartney to on and on and on, I'm.

658
00:39:38,236 --> 00:39:39,676
Speaker 4: Like, wow, it's insane.

659
00:39:39,996 --> 00:39:43,116
Speaker 3: That was great, and like, of course getting older is

660
00:39:43,116 --> 00:39:46,316
Speaker 3: a little challenging, but at the same time, you know,

661
00:39:46,396 --> 00:39:50,116
Speaker 3: to be in New York in the late seventies when

662
00:39:50,756 --> 00:39:53,876
Speaker 3: hip hop and punk rock and indie rock and electronic

663
00:39:53,956 --> 00:39:57,996
Speaker 3: music were all being invented, like that's and I feel

664
00:39:57,996 --> 00:40:01,916
Speaker 3: bad for young people today for many reasons, like dealing

665
00:40:01,916 --> 00:40:06,316
Speaker 3: with pandemics, climate change, the pressures of social media, et cetera,

666
00:40:06,356 --> 00:40:10,236
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. But the other is like when

667
00:40:10,276 --> 00:40:12,636
Speaker 3: I was growing up and you experienced this as well,

668
00:40:12,676 --> 00:40:16,236
Speaker 3: Like we got to experience things as they were being invented,

669
00:40:16,876 --> 00:40:20,556
Speaker 3: Like I mean, hip hop was invented, house music was invented.

670
00:40:20,636 --> 00:40:24,236
Speaker 2: Techno and raven ever existed before. It hasn't always been here.

671
00:40:24,396 --> 00:40:28,956
Speaker 3: Yeah, And another thing that makes me so grateful for

672
00:40:30,276 --> 00:40:32,796
Speaker 3: I'll include you even though you're so very young, but

673
00:40:32,956 --> 00:40:38,036
Speaker 3: like the fact that we when when we became adults,

674
00:40:38,156 --> 00:40:41,196
Speaker 3: you know, twenty twenty one, we could move to any

675
00:40:41,276 --> 00:40:44,436
Speaker 3: city in the world because every city was so inexpensive,

676
00:40:45,356 --> 00:40:48,556
Speaker 3: you know, Like when I was twenty years old, I

677
00:40:48,596 --> 00:40:51,196
Speaker 3: was like, Wow, you can move to any city in

678
00:40:51,236 --> 00:40:54,476
Speaker 3: the world and not even have to worry about paying

679
00:40:54,516 --> 00:40:56,516
Speaker 3: the rent. Like my first rent in New York was

680
00:40:56,556 --> 00:40:59,596
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty dollars a month rent on fourteenth

681
00:40:59,596 --> 00:41:02,316
Speaker 3: and third, And that was true for everybody, and as

682
00:41:02,356 --> 00:41:05,396
Speaker 3: a result, there was no pressure. You're like, oh, if

683
00:41:05,396 --> 00:41:08,316
Speaker 3: you want to be a filmmaker, spend five years figuring

684
00:41:08,396 --> 00:41:11,316
Speaker 3: it out, because guess what, your rent is so cheap.

685
00:41:11,436 --> 00:41:13,956
Speaker 3: Or a writer or a musician or a playwright or

686
00:41:14,396 --> 00:41:18,116
Speaker 3: whatever you had that time, it was almost like apprenticeships,

687
00:41:18,116 --> 00:41:24,076
Speaker 3: Like we all had extended creative apprenticeships facilitated by a

688
00:41:24,156 --> 00:41:28,556
Speaker 3: lack of financial pressure because cost of living was so cheap.

689
00:41:28,596 --> 00:41:30,516
Speaker 3: And it breaks my heart that like a twenty one

690
00:41:30,556 --> 00:41:33,236
Speaker 3: year old today, there's nowhere in the world for them

691
00:41:33,276 --> 00:41:33,596
Speaker 3: to live.

692
00:41:34,956 --> 00:41:37,156
Speaker 1: We'll be back after another quick break with more from

693
00:41:37,236 --> 00:41:43,836
Speaker 1: Lea Rose and Moby. We're back with the rest of

694
00:41:43,956 --> 00:41:46,436
Speaker 1: Lea Rose's conversation with Moby.

695
00:41:47,436 --> 00:41:49,076
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about a couple of the

696
00:41:49,196 --> 00:41:52,556
Speaker 2: songs on the new album. When It's Cold I'd like

697
00:41:52,636 --> 00:41:56,156
Speaker 2: to die. So there's a new vocalist on this song.

698
00:41:56,756 --> 00:42:00,076
Speaker 2: It's so beautiful, it's so moving, it's sad, but it's

699
00:42:00,116 --> 00:42:03,876
Speaker 2: so triumphant. So how did you find the vocalist and

700
00:42:04,276 --> 00:42:06,156
Speaker 2: what usually draws you to a vocalist.

701
00:42:06,436 --> 00:42:09,676
Speaker 3: Well, when I was really little, I desperate wanted to

702
00:42:09,716 --> 00:42:13,756
Speaker 3: be a great singer, like it was my goal. When

703
00:42:13,796 --> 00:42:17,916
Speaker 3: I was seven years old, you know, being in post

704
00:42:17,916 --> 00:42:22,316
Speaker 3: corner pizza listening to Queen on the jukebox, I was like, Wow,

705
00:42:22,556 --> 00:42:24,836
Speaker 3: how what a great life that would be to sing

706
00:42:24,956 --> 00:42:28,436
Speaker 3: like Freddie Mercury or Paul McCartney. And then I started

707
00:42:28,436 --> 00:42:30,756
Speaker 3: playing in bands and I learned very quickly. I'm not

708
00:42:30,796 --> 00:42:35,836
Speaker 3: a great singer. I'm a solid B B minus white

709
00:42:35,876 --> 00:42:39,076
Speaker 3: guy singer. And I learned in the early nineties, if

710
00:42:39,116 --> 00:42:41,436
Speaker 3: I want to have beautiful voices on my records, I

711
00:42:41,476 --> 00:42:43,956
Speaker 3: have to learn how to work with singers. And so

712
00:42:45,156 --> 00:42:48,316
Speaker 3: that forced me to work with singers on my records

713
00:42:48,356 --> 00:42:52,516
Speaker 3: and also produce and remix other people. I mean, I

714
00:42:52,556 --> 00:42:55,956
Speaker 3: got to work with everyone from David Bowie to Ozzy

715
00:42:55,996 --> 00:42:59,316
Speaker 3: Osbourne to Britney Spears to Chris Cornell, like you know,

716
00:42:59,356 --> 00:43:04,876
Speaker 3: everybody from Chuck d to the Beastie Boys, and that

717
00:43:05,116 --> 00:43:10,836
Speaker 3: exposure to voices made me fall in love with the

718
00:43:10,876 --> 00:43:15,356
Speaker 3: process of It's frustrating because like you with technology, you

719
00:43:15,396 --> 00:43:17,516
Speaker 3: can make technology do what you want it to do.

720
00:43:17,596 --> 00:43:21,556
Speaker 3: The human voice is not technological like That's why it

721
00:43:21,596 --> 00:43:26,556
Speaker 3: is so compelling and powerful, because it expresses that vulnerability

722
00:43:27,076 --> 00:43:32,836
Speaker 3: and strengths. And it's such a challenge getting great vocal

723
00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:36,996
Speaker 3: performances from people, but when you do, it's sublime and transcendent.

724
00:43:37,436 --> 00:43:40,556
Speaker 3: So the original version of When It's Cold I'd Like

725
00:43:40,596 --> 00:43:43,476
Speaker 3: to Die came out in nineteen ninety five with this

726
00:43:43,596 --> 00:43:46,676
Speaker 3: amazing woman named Mimi Gaizy who had been in a

727
00:43:46,676 --> 00:43:50,876
Speaker 3: band called Hugo Largo, and it was an obscure song

728
00:43:52,156 --> 00:43:54,716
Speaker 3: that was at the end of a record that very

729
00:43:54,716 --> 00:43:59,996
Speaker 3: few people had listened to. But somehow, weirdly, people kept

730
00:44:00,036 --> 00:44:03,636
Speaker 3: discovering that song, like it was used in The Sopranos

731
00:44:03,716 --> 00:44:07,236
Speaker 3: when Tony soprano spoiler alert, when Tony soprano it goes

732
00:44:07,276 --> 00:44:12,436
Speaker 3: into a coma. People kept finding it and then lo

733
00:44:12,676 --> 00:44:16,596
Speaker 3: and behold. Last summer, it was used in the season

734
00:44:16,636 --> 00:44:21,116
Speaker 3: finale of Stranger Things So cool for about four minutes,

735
00:44:21,556 --> 00:44:26,116
Speaker 3: and I had the very strange, disconcerting experience of watching

736
00:44:26,156 --> 00:44:29,996
Speaker 3: Stranger Things. My song started playing and I started crying

737
00:44:30,396 --> 00:44:32,916
Speaker 3: because I don't know if you've seen this last episode,

738
00:44:32,916 --> 00:44:38,556
Speaker 3: but it's really intense and so emotional, and it created

739
00:44:38,556 --> 00:44:43,796
Speaker 3: this very strange phenomena of really young kids on TikTok

740
00:44:43,996 --> 00:44:47,116
Speaker 3: listening to this song and crying into their cameras.

741
00:44:47,396 --> 00:44:47,916
Speaker 4: Wow.

742
00:44:48,196 --> 00:44:51,556
Speaker 3: So it's this bizarre zeitgeist moment for an old guy

743
00:44:51,676 --> 00:44:54,156
Speaker 3: like me, where like suddenly fifteen year old kids in

744
00:44:54,196 --> 00:44:57,156
Speaker 3: New Zealand are having these emotional moments into their phones

745
00:44:57,196 --> 00:45:02,236
Speaker 3: on TikTok. So long winded way of saying, I really

746
00:45:02,276 --> 00:45:06,556
Speaker 3: wanted to find a great singer to sing the version

747
00:45:06,796 --> 00:45:08,916
Speaker 3: of when It's Cold I'd Like to Die for this album.

748
00:45:09,356 --> 00:45:13,716
Speaker 3: And I worked with a bunch of different people, you know, honestly,

749
00:45:13,876 --> 00:45:17,396
Speaker 3: like quite a few people who great singers, who couldn't

750
00:45:17,436 --> 00:45:20,316
Speaker 3: do it. They could deliver the technical perfection, but they

751
00:45:20,356 --> 00:45:25,476
Speaker 3: couldn't deliver the emotion, the vulnerability. And so I just

752
00:45:25,516 --> 00:45:27,876
Speaker 3: thought like, Okay, well, I guess that means it's not

753
00:45:27,916 --> 00:45:32,396
Speaker 3: going to be on the record. But then last minute,

754
00:45:32,676 --> 00:45:35,276
Speaker 3: Hail Mary, even though I don't know really what that means.

755
00:45:35,516 --> 00:45:37,556
Speaker 3: And as someone who doesn't know sports, I shouldn't use

756
00:45:37,556 --> 00:45:41,516
Speaker 3: sports analogies. But my friend Jonathan went to a wedding

757
00:45:41,636 --> 00:45:45,036
Speaker 3: in Texas and he heard the wedding singer, this guy

758
00:45:45,116 --> 00:45:47,756
Speaker 3: named Paul Banks, same name as the singer from Interpol,

759
00:45:48,596 --> 00:45:50,836
Speaker 3: and he thought he might be good on when It's

760
00:45:50,876 --> 00:45:54,156
Speaker 3: called I'd Like to Die. So he brought this wedding singer,

761
00:45:54,236 --> 00:45:58,996
Speaker 3: Paul into his studio, and Paul the wedding singer, nailed

762
00:45:59,036 --> 00:46:02,316
Speaker 3: it like so much better than anybody else I had

763
00:46:02,356 --> 00:46:06,196
Speaker 3: worked with, and I was like, wow, so pt Banks,

764
00:46:06,276 --> 00:46:10,636
Speaker 3: this wedding singer from the middle of ten Exis, ended

765
00:46:10,716 --> 00:46:14,556
Speaker 3: up delivering the most vulnerable beautiful vocal performance and when

766
00:46:14,556 --> 00:46:15,796
Speaker 3: it's cold, I'd like to die.

767
00:46:16,436 --> 00:46:18,396
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, it is so moving.

768
00:46:19,316 --> 00:46:22,356
Speaker 2: And I was wondering if you have any tricks as

769
00:46:22,396 --> 00:46:27,316
Speaker 2: a producer for making a song anthemic, Like, is there

770
00:46:27,356 --> 00:46:29,796
Speaker 2: anything that you can add or anything in your toolkit

771
00:46:29,836 --> 00:46:31,916
Speaker 2: that you go back to that you know, if you

772
00:46:31,956 --> 00:46:34,916
Speaker 2: add a little bit of this, it's gonna make it huge.

773
00:46:35,316 --> 00:46:35,476
Speaker 1: You know.

774
00:46:35,596 --> 00:46:39,316
Speaker 3: The tricky thing there is it all depends on what

775
00:46:39,476 --> 00:46:44,116
Speaker 3: type of song, what's the genre, what's the instrumentation. But

776
00:46:44,236 --> 00:46:45,716
Speaker 3: like with when it's called I'd like to die, like

777
00:46:45,836 --> 00:46:51,116
Speaker 3: especially the version on Resound NYC, like, there're no electric

778
00:46:51,476 --> 00:46:57,316
Speaker 3: electronic elements, So in a weird way, it's chord voicings,

779
00:46:57,356 --> 00:47:03,596
Speaker 3: it's chord progressions. But it's also it's the juxtaposition between

780
00:47:03,716 --> 00:47:07,596
Speaker 3: restraint and bomb bast, you know, and whether that's a

781
00:47:07,676 --> 00:47:09,876
Speaker 3: hip hop track or a tech no track or in

782
00:47:09,916 --> 00:47:13,516
Speaker 3: this case, like a piece of classical music with vocals

783
00:47:13,516 --> 00:47:17,356
Speaker 3: on top of it, it's the restraint. It's letting the

784
00:47:17,476 --> 00:47:22,236
Speaker 3: restraint be achingly vulnerable and letting the bomb bast be

785
00:47:22,356 --> 00:47:27,116
Speaker 3: incredibly grand and creating the dynamic tension between those two things,

786
00:47:27,116 --> 00:47:31,836
Speaker 3: but also ultimately using myself as the first sounding board. Like,

787
00:47:31,876 --> 00:47:34,516
Speaker 3: if I'm working on a piece of music and I

788
00:47:34,676 --> 00:47:37,796
Speaker 3: have a profound emotional reaction to it, that increases the

789
00:47:37,916 --> 00:47:40,716
Speaker 3: chances that it might be worth playing for other people,

790
00:47:40,756 --> 00:47:43,196
Speaker 3: and the hope that they'd have an emotional reaction to it.

791
00:47:43,996 --> 00:47:46,436
Speaker 2: Do you listen to music really, really loud when you're

792
00:47:46,436 --> 00:47:46,916
Speaker 2: making it?

793
00:47:47,836 --> 00:47:51,796
Speaker 3: Do you know what's funny? I hate loud music. I've

794
00:47:51,836 --> 00:47:56,796
Speaker 3: worn ear plugs since nineteen eighty two, maybe nineteen eighty one.

795
00:47:57,436 --> 00:48:00,276
Speaker 3: I saw the Misfits play in Bridgeport, Connecticut, and my

796
00:48:00,356 --> 00:48:02,436
Speaker 3: ears were ringing the next day, And so I've always

797
00:48:02,436 --> 00:48:06,756
Speaker 3: worn ear plugs because I maybe shouldn't even admit this.

798
00:48:06,836 --> 00:48:10,276
Speaker 3: I just don't like loud music. I love when I'm

799
00:48:10,316 --> 00:48:14,756
Speaker 3: working in my studio. I can hear outside sounds way

800
00:48:14,796 --> 00:48:16,636
Speaker 3: louder than I can hear anything i'm working on.

801
00:48:17,876 --> 00:48:20,276
Speaker 4: So interesting. So how would you handle that?

802
00:48:20,356 --> 00:48:23,796
Speaker 2: If you were djaying a huge party or a rave

803
00:48:23,996 --> 00:48:25,996
Speaker 2: or something big and loud.

804
00:48:26,516 --> 00:48:32,316
Speaker 3: I would wear I wear those yellow foam earplugs that

805
00:48:32,356 --> 00:48:36,116
Speaker 3: the guys wear. Who wear who do jackhammers?

806
00:48:36,636 --> 00:48:39,436
Speaker 4: Yeah? And so you would put your headphones over those?

807
00:48:39,916 --> 00:48:42,356
Speaker 3: I try to, Yeah, I mean, like for a while

808
00:48:42,436 --> 00:48:44,956
Speaker 3: and this is something else I shouldn't admit. My dad

809
00:48:45,076 --> 00:48:49,836
Speaker 3: was a sharp shooter in the military, and I hate guns,

810
00:48:49,956 --> 00:48:54,436
Speaker 3: and I think guns should be outlawed and banned. But nonetheless,

811
00:48:54,956 --> 00:48:57,036
Speaker 3: I sort of grew up around a little bit of

812
00:48:57,836 --> 00:49:01,756
Speaker 3: guns sport, not shooting animals, but like target shooting. And

813
00:49:02,036 --> 00:49:06,276
Speaker 3: when I used to do target shooting a little bit competitively,

814
00:49:06,716 --> 00:49:12,036
Speaker 3: I would wear those yellow foam plugs with shooters earphones

815
00:49:12,076 --> 00:49:14,116
Speaker 3: on top of them because the noise is just like

816
00:49:14,476 --> 00:49:17,196
Speaker 3: loud noises make my brain explode.

817
00:49:17,756 --> 00:49:19,276
Speaker 4: Yeah, I read that.

818
00:49:19,316 --> 00:49:23,196
Speaker 2: For the new album, you built bespoke orchestration around a

819
00:49:23,236 --> 00:49:25,876
Speaker 2: lot of the tracks. Do you have to know music

820
00:49:25,916 --> 00:49:30,836
Speaker 2: theory to do that? Like how do you write orchestral parts?

821
00:49:31,156 --> 00:49:31,396
Speaker 1: Yeah?

822
00:49:31,396 --> 00:49:33,436
Speaker 3: I mean I when I was very young, before I

823
00:49:33,476 --> 00:49:37,116
Speaker 3: discovered punk rock, I actually studied music theory in a

824
00:49:37,236 --> 00:49:41,316
Speaker 3: very idiosyncratic way with a weird music teacher in Connecticut

825
00:49:41,836 --> 00:49:43,356
Speaker 3: when I was from the time I was nine until

826
00:49:43,356 --> 00:49:49,476
Speaker 3: around thirteen, So, oddly enough, a degree of rudimentary music

827
00:49:49,556 --> 00:49:53,276
Speaker 3: theory is kind of baked into my musical DNA. So

828
00:49:53,356 --> 00:49:55,276
Speaker 3: when it came time to make the first record with

829
00:49:55,356 --> 00:49:59,236
Speaker 3: Deutsche Grammophone, which is a much more traditional orchestral record.

830
00:49:59,836 --> 00:50:03,556
Speaker 3: I wrote the basic orchestral parts, and then I didn't

831
00:50:03,596 --> 00:50:06,276
Speaker 3: trust myself enough, so I handed them over to an

832
00:50:06,356 --> 00:50:10,036
Speaker 3: orchestrator who turned them into something it could be played

833
00:50:10,076 --> 00:50:13,636
Speaker 3: by an orchestra. And when I listened to what he did,

834
00:50:13,716 --> 00:50:17,476
Speaker 3: and when I watched the process, I realized, oh, I

835
00:50:17,476 --> 00:50:19,756
Speaker 3: can do that. I can't conduct, like I wouldn't know

836
00:50:19,756 --> 00:50:23,676
Speaker 3: how to conduct an orchestra, but I can write. I'd

837
00:50:23,716 --> 00:50:27,316
Speaker 3: say I can get orchestral parts to ninety five percent

838
00:50:27,516 --> 00:50:31,316
Speaker 3: finished where they can be presented to an orchestra to

839
00:50:31,396 --> 00:50:35,956
Speaker 3: be performed. And it's I love that process, Like writing

840
00:50:36,076 --> 00:50:41,556
Speaker 3: orchestration and doing orchestral arrangement is so satisfying and so

841
00:50:41,676 --> 00:50:45,996
Speaker 3: much fun. And what the use of the word bespoke

842
00:50:46,956 --> 00:50:52,436
Speaker 3: in that press release, what that means is traditionally an

843
00:50:52,556 --> 00:50:56,476
Speaker 3: orchestral album would have a conventional orchestra for each song.

844
00:50:57,316 --> 00:51:00,276
Speaker 3: And what I did with this record and the Pandemic

845
00:51:00,356 --> 00:51:03,516
Speaker 3: definitely encouraged this as well, is each song got its

846
00:51:03,596 --> 00:51:06,956
Speaker 3: own orchestral approach. So in some instances that was just

847
00:51:06,996 --> 00:51:10,876
Speaker 3: working with a quintet, maybe augmented with a mellotron, and

848
00:51:10,956 --> 00:51:14,076
Speaker 3: other times it was actually working with a full eighty

849
00:51:14,116 --> 00:51:18,436
Speaker 3: five piece orchestra. But that's clearly a bit hard during

850
00:51:18,476 --> 00:51:21,156
Speaker 3: the pandemic, so we weren't able to do that much

851
00:51:21,196 --> 00:51:23,276
Speaker 3: of that, whereas the first record was a lot of

852
00:51:23,276 --> 00:51:27,196
Speaker 3: that big eighty five piece orchestra. Yeah, so that's the

853
00:51:27,236 --> 00:51:30,436
Speaker 3: bespoke aspect of that. Like even in some songs, like

854
00:51:30,996 --> 00:51:33,756
Speaker 3: the version of Helpless it's on the record, the Neil

855
00:51:33,796 --> 00:51:34,356
Speaker 3: Young song.

856
00:51:34,796 --> 00:51:36,796
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's beautiful, Oh.

857
00:51:36,636 --> 00:51:40,516
Speaker 3: Thank you, But like the orchestration, there at times it's

858
00:51:40,636 --> 00:51:45,716
Speaker 3: so pulled back because I was working with a quintet

859
00:51:45,796 --> 00:51:47,836
Speaker 3: and you know, a French horn player and an English

860
00:51:47,876 --> 00:51:51,356
Speaker 3: horn player as opposed to that full eighty five piece orchestra.

861
00:51:51,476 --> 00:51:56,436
Speaker 3: Because when you have an eighty five or larger piece orchestra,

862
00:51:56,916 --> 00:51:59,156
Speaker 3: you kind of want them all to be doing something,

863
00:51:59,916 --> 00:52:03,116
Speaker 3: which is great for bombast but not so great for

864
00:52:04,476 --> 00:52:06,676
Speaker 3: austere vulnerability.

865
00:52:07,716 --> 00:52:08,676
Speaker 4: Yeah.

866
00:52:09,196 --> 00:52:12,636
Speaker 2: Is it possible to capture the thrill of an eighty

867
00:52:12,676 --> 00:52:15,636
Speaker 2: five piece orchestra on a recording.

868
00:52:16,756 --> 00:52:19,756
Speaker 3: That's a great question, I mean, because you could almost

869
00:52:20,156 --> 00:52:26,436
Speaker 3: expand it to say like recording and mixing, it's to

870
00:52:26,476 --> 00:52:30,196
Speaker 3: state at the Abbeys it's trickery. Like John Bonham, how

871
00:52:30,196 --> 00:52:33,996
Speaker 3: did they make John Bonham's drums sound so like with

872
00:52:34,156 --> 00:52:35,836
Speaker 3: just a couple of microphones, how do you make them

873
00:52:35,876 --> 00:52:40,316
Speaker 3: sound so big? You know, Yeah, it's a lot of

874
00:52:41,356 --> 00:52:44,836
Speaker 3: trickery taking you know, John Bonham's drums, or taking a

875
00:52:44,876 --> 00:52:48,436
Speaker 3: giant orchestra or a gospel choir and getting it down

876
00:52:49,076 --> 00:52:52,676
Speaker 3: to a little file that's going to sound wonderful on

877
00:52:52,756 --> 00:52:55,716
Speaker 3: two speakers or two earbuds on the L train during

878
00:52:55,836 --> 00:52:59,276
Speaker 3: morning commute. Like, yeah, it makes me feel a little

879
00:52:59,316 --> 00:53:02,076
Speaker 3: bit like a liar. That like part of my job is,

880
00:53:03,036 --> 00:53:05,156
Speaker 3: you know, you start with something big, you make it

881
00:53:05,196 --> 00:53:06,836
Speaker 3: really small, and then figure out how to try and

882
00:53:06,836 --> 00:53:07,596
Speaker 3: make it big again.

883
00:53:08,356 --> 00:53:10,876
Speaker 2: Speaking of trick, does Ozzy Osborne you said you worked

884
00:53:10,876 --> 00:53:14,276
Speaker 2: with Ozzy Osbourne? Did he with those Black Sabbath albums?

885
00:53:14,476 --> 00:53:17,316
Speaker 2: Did they do something to his voice in post production

886
00:53:17,556 --> 00:53:19,796
Speaker 2: or is it doubled or is that just the way

887
00:53:19,836 --> 00:53:20,476
Speaker 2: he sounds?

888
00:53:20,876 --> 00:53:28,076
Speaker 3: His trick is very straightforward. It's doubling his voice. So

889
00:53:28,116 --> 00:53:31,156
Speaker 3: when you say it's because when we were recording his

890
00:53:31,276 --> 00:53:33,996
Speaker 3: vocals and really no one ever needs to listen to

891
00:53:33,996 --> 00:53:35,916
Speaker 3: the song we did, I hate to say it's it's

892
00:53:36,396 --> 00:53:39,796
Speaker 3: it's not either one of our best moments. It was

893
00:53:39,796 --> 00:53:42,116
Speaker 3: on the Beavis and butt Head soundtrack. But I was

894
00:53:42,156 --> 00:53:46,036
Speaker 3: just thrilled to be working with Ozzy and uh totally

895
00:53:46,196 --> 00:53:49,156
Speaker 3: at that point he had this amazing band. But when

896
00:53:49,196 --> 00:53:53,436
Speaker 3: he recorded his first vocal take, the engineer and I

897
00:53:53,436 --> 00:53:55,916
Speaker 3: looked at each other, We're like, uh, oh, that was

898
00:53:56,036 --> 00:53:58,796
Speaker 3: kind of uh, we're gonna have to work with that.

899
00:53:58,596 --> 00:54:03,036
Speaker 3: That's it was not perfect, I say diplomatically. And then

900
00:54:03,076 --> 00:54:05,996
Speaker 3: he said, okay, now let me double it. And when

901
00:54:06,036 --> 00:54:07,876
Speaker 3: he doubled it, the engineer and I looked at each

902
00:54:07,876 --> 00:54:09,716
Speaker 3: other and was like, oh my god, now now it's Ozzy.

903
00:54:10,196 --> 00:54:14,796
Speaker 3: So that doubling of the vocal that I believe he

904
00:54:16,116 --> 00:54:18,196
Speaker 3: I don't know at what point, whether it was Geezer

905
00:54:18,196 --> 00:54:21,956
Speaker 3: Butler or whomever encouraged him to do that, but that

906
00:54:22,236 --> 00:54:28,596
Speaker 3: is the azzy sound like that immediately registers as Ozzy

907
00:54:28,796 --> 00:54:31,436
Speaker 3: and taking it sort of a little bit full circle

908
00:54:31,476 --> 00:54:35,236
Speaker 3: back to the punk rock Vegan movie, there is one

909
00:54:36,036 --> 00:54:42,516
Speaker 3: original hard rock vegan musician, which is Geezer Butler. Geezer

910
00:54:42,556 --> 00:54:45,876
Speaker 3: has been vegan longer than anybody on the planet. He's

911
00:54:45,876 --> 00:54:49,676
Speaker 3: been vegan since the late sixties. Very cool and unfortunately

912
00:54:49,796 --> 00:54:51,876
Speaker 3: now I do have to get going in just a minute,

913
00:54:51,916 --> 00:54:55,556
Speaker 3: but Can I leave with a story about one of

914
00:54:55,596 --> 00:55:03,476
Speaker 3: my favorite musical, personal, professional, spiritual, existential anecdotes about the

915
00:55:03,476 --> 00:55:04,876
Speaker 3: greatest singer who's ever lived.

916
00:55:05,516 --> 00:55:07,316
Speaker 4: Yes, please, And it's actually.

917
00:55:06,996 --> 00:55:10,436
Speaker 3: In the memoir. So I apologize for plagiarizing myself. But

918
00:55:11,276 --> 00:55:15,556
Speaker 3: David Bowie in the late nineties became my neighbor. He

919
00:55:15,636 --> 00:55:19,076
Speaker 3: was on Lafayette and Mulberry and I was on Mott

920
00:55:19,116 --> 00:55:22,436
Speaker 3: Street and we would wave to each other from our balconies.

921
00:55:22,556 --> 00:55:26,556
Speaker 3: We became friends, and we agreed to play a fundraiser

922
00:55:26,876 --> 00:55:31,236
Speaker 3: for Philip Glass for his Tibet house. And so David

923
00:55:31,236 --> 00:55:33,676
Speaker 3: Bowie came over to my apartment one morning and brought

924
00:55:33,676 --> 00:55:37,916
Speaker 3: coffee from Gitan, and just the two of us sitting

925
00:55:37,916 --> 00:55:40,156
Speaker 3: in my living room, and I worked up all my

926
00:55:40,316 --> 00:55:42,796
Speaker 3: nerve and I asked him, I said, what if we

927
00:55:42,836 --> 00:55:46,716
Speaker 3: do an acoustic version of Heroes? And I really thought

928
00:55:46,916 --> 00:55:51,916
Speaker 3: he was going to finally spit on me or something like.

929
00:55:52,356 --> 00:55:55,516
Speaker 3: I was like, have I crossed a line? But because

930
00:55:55,516 --> 00:55:57,956
Speaker 3: he was so delightful, he said, yeah, sure, let's give

931
00:55:57,996 --> 00:56:01,596
Speaker 3: it a try. So the two of us sitting in

932
00:56:01,636 --> 00:56:03,836
Speaker 3: my living room on Mott Street on a Saturday morning,

933
00:56:03,956 --> 00:56:09,556
Speaker 3: drinking cafe Gitan coffee playing heroes on acoustic guitar, and

934
00:56:09,596 --> 00:56:13,516
Speaker 3: it was very special. But then towards the end he

935
00:56:13,636 --> 00:56:18,236
Speaker 3: brought his voice up an octave. It was so transcendent

936
00:56:18,716 --> 00:56:23,476
Speaker 3: and like, it's possible that on my deathbed, that's what

937
00:56:23,556 --> 00:56:25,836
Speaker 3: I'm going to try, and like when I go out,

938
00:56:25,876 --> 00:56:27,316
Speaker 3: that's what I'm going to try and remember.

939
00:56:28,436 --> 00:56:30,596
Speaker 4: Yeah that's beautiful. Wow.

940
00:56:31,276 --> 00:56:33,116
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for taking the time. I

941
00:56:33,116 --> 00:56:34,476
Speaker 2: know I've held you way too long.

942
00:56:34,636 --> 00:56:36,636
Speaker 3: Oh no, this has been great. Like I feel like

943
00:56:37,156 --> 00:56:40,276
Speaker 3: this has been like like a gestalt therapy session, Like

944
00:56:40,316 --> 00:56:43,996
Speaker 3: I need to venmo you a couple hundred dollars for therapy.

945
00:56:45,556 --> 00:56:48,396
Speaker 2: No need, Thank you, and congratulations on the album. It

946
00:56:48,476 --> 00:56:49,476
Speaker 2: sounds fantastic.

947
00:56:49,756 --> 00:56:52,516
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, And yeah, this was really wonderful, and thank

948
00:56:52,556 --> 00:56:54,796
Speaker 3: you for taking the time. And please say hi to

949
00:56:55,756 --> 00:56:57,836
Speaker 3: Rick for me if you see him or speak to him.

950
00:57:00,956 --> 00:57:03,956
Speaker 1: Thanks to Mobi for a thoughtful consideration of all aspects

951
00:57:04,036 --> 00:57:06,396
Speaker 1: of his career. You can hear all of our favorite

952
00:57:06,436 --> 00:57:10,076
Speaker 1: Mobi songs on a playlist at Broken record podcast dot com.

953
00:57:10,636 --> 00:57:13,476
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot

954
00:57:13,516 --> 00:57:16,716
Speaker 1: com slash broken record Podcast, where you can find all

955
00:57:16,756 --> 00:57:20,396
Speaker 1: of our new episodes. Broken Record is produced with help

956
00:57:20,396 --> 00:57:25,676
Speaker 1: from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday, Nisha Venkat, Jordan McMillan,

957
00:57:25,876 --> 00:57:31,316
Speaker 1: and Eric Sander. Our editor is Sophie Crem. Broken Record

958
00:57:31,436 --> 00:57:34,156
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this

959
00:57:34,236 --> 00:57:37,916
Speaker 1: show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

960
00:57:38,636 --> 00:57:42,156
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription service that offers bonus

961
00:57:42,156 --> 00:57:45,916
Speaker 1: content and unintrupted ad free listening for only four ninety

962
00:57:45,996 --> 00:57:50,236
Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions,

963
00:57:51,356 --> 00:57:53,476
Speaker 1: and if you like the show, remember to share, rate,

964
00:57:53,556 --> 00:57:56,836
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast staff. Our themes expect

965
00:57:56,836 --> 00:58:02,756
Speaker 1: Anna Beats on, Justin Richie