1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Body Bus with Joseph's gotten More July twentieth, nineteen sixty nine. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: I remember where I was. I was actually with my 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: grandmother and my grandfather. I can't remember if my mother 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: was there or not, but I do remember watching Neil 5 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Armstrong descend from that that Lunar lander and set foot 6 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: on the moon and it was like a miracle. I 7 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: remember my grandfather say it's fake. But you know, I 8 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: want to talk about a case today that actually is 9 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: older than the Lunar landing in nineteen sixty nine. As 10 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, the case involves a high school 11 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: student who was aware of space travel, was aware that 12 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: we were going to the moon, and maybe with her friends. 13 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: She had watched it on a TV and classroom before 14 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: we ever sat foot on the moon waiting. But it's 15 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: a day she never saw because in March of that 16 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: same year, she was found in a ditch slaughtered. And 17 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: the reason I'm telling you about this case is that 18 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: after all these years, there's now been an arrest. In 19 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. Dave, 20 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: my favorite toy growing up bar Nune. I loved my 21 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: g I Joe's. But my favorite toy growing up was 22 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: Major Matt Mason had. I had everything. They were rubberized, 23 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: they had wire in the body, and it was all 24 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: about the moon. It was about going to the moon. 25 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: They had the Rover, you remember, that weird looking car. 26 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: And then they had the Bubble. They had this bubble 27 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: thing with these legs that would roll across the surface 28 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: and you had the interior of the orbiting vehicle you know, 29 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: went around. It was just it was amazing, it really was, 30 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: and as kids we were all excited about that in life, 31 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: even though that was so complex, we had no appreciation 32 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: of it at that young age. But life was so 33 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: much more simpler back then. But Dave, I got to 34 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: tell you, when we begin to talk about this case today, 35 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: horror is still real. It was real back then. We 36 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: just didn't see as much of it or were not 37 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: exposed to as much of it. But Dave, this case 38 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: it rivals anything that we cover nowadays, you know, on 39 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: a weekly basis, on bodybacks. 40 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 2: It's evil. 41 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 3: And the thing that bothers me about cold cases is 42 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: the families that are left behind that live with it, 43 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 3: because I can't imagine what that's like. I can't imagine 44 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 3: the frustration they go through, and in particular today, as 45 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: we were talking about in nineteen sixty nine, Mary Kay 46 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: Hesse was seventeen years old, and think about what was 47 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: going on. You know, in nineteen sixty nine, we had 48 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 3: the moon landing in July, we had Woodstock in August, 49 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: and smack Dad. Between the two of them, Mary, Joe 50 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: Capeckney was killed, Kennedy chap equitic, so all of that 51 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 3: was still yet to come months time. 52 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: I got to make a note of that. We got 53 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: to do that on bodybacks. Oh okay, yes, sorry Joepeckney. 54 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 3: Yeahs Her murder goes unsolved for many, many, many years. 55 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 3: And what I did in prepping for this, I looked 56 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 3: up to see those who are trying so hard for 57 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 3: so many years. To follow this, you realize that family 58 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 3: and friends set up a tip line for Mary Kay Hasse. 59 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: They were still I mean still Joe two years ago. 60 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 3: I looked up a post they had let me see, 61 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 3: wait a minute, yeah, in twenty twenty two. Okay, March 62 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 3: twenty six, twenty twenty two, fifty three years ago today, 63 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, Mary Kay's life was taken by this 64 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: enraged killer. Although we haven't posted for a while, I 65 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: assure everyone we have not given up. We are still 66 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 3: coming for you and we will continue until Mary Kay 67 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 3: gets justice for the person or people who took her life. 68 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: For everyone that has kept us encouraged, we thank you 69 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 3: for those who know. Again, we ask you to come forward. 70 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: That was written two years ago, and I'm so thankful 71 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: that at least today Joseph Scott Morgan, we actually have 72 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 3: the answers that this family and these friends who have 73 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: taken the time to post and keep things active on 74 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: social media, doing interviews with the press, just banking on 75 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: the fact that somebody knows something, and you know what, 76 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 3: somebody did know something. He knew and when they came 77 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 3: for him, Holy mackerel. Joseph Scott Morgan. I was watching 78 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 3: some of the newspiece on it, and I'm thinking, there's 79 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 3: a murderer who has gotten away with murder for most 80 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 3: of fifty five years. Yep, you think he's banking on 81 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: going to the grave with this. 82 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: He didn't, Yeah, and he was you know who in 83 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: their right and mind would actually believe that that it 84 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: would be possible to fly under the radar. What is 85 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: this fifty. 86 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: Fifty five years years Joe, fifty five years. Yeah, you 87 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 2: would think fifty after fifty five years later, you'd think 88 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: he got away with it. Yeah, that you would think that, 89 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: you know, boy, I really slipped that, you know, I slipped. 90 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: Out of out of the clutches of the police. They'll 91 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: never never figure out that I was involved in this 92 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: in any shape, form or fashion. And I can only 93 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: imagine when can you imagine when the cops showed up 94 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: at the accused home. You know, he's sitting around, he's 95 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: lived now, I can only I don't know from me. 96 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: Maybe he's different than I and you, but you know, 97 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: I'd be consumed with guilt after all of these years, 98 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's like a cancer. I would think, uh. 99 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: And some people are not capable, I think, of sensing guilt, 100 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, they're devoid of that for whatever reason. We can, 101 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, go down the path of psychological you know, 102 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: pathology and all that sort of stuff. But for him 103 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: to have escaped justice for all these many years is 104 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: something that is amazing, and that they would be able 105 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: to find or identify someone that they really like for 106 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: this case suspect. 107 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: And I'm glad you did say that because you know, 108 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 3: no matter how we feel or think about anything in 109 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: our country, you are innocent until proven guilty. Yes, and 110 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: you know, and we need to remember that because I 111 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: don't know the person accused. I don't even know the 112 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 3: evidence yet, because we're going to unroll that for you. 113 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 3: But I wanted to share one more very quick thing, 114 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 3: and that is this sure if you, my friend, are 115 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: suffering through the pangs of guilt over a crime you committed, 116 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: You've never had a peaceful night of sleep, You've never 117 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 3: had a relationship that lasted. You look at your own children, 118 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 3: and you just fear the day there's a knock on 119 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 3: the door that says put your hands behind your back. 120 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 3: If you pick up the phone and call for help, 121 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: you realize you're going to get a much better deal 122 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: than if they show up at the door and say 123 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 3: put your hands behind your back. You have the right 124 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 3: to remain silent. If they find you before you find them, 125 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: you don't negotiate a deal. So if you've got something 126 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: like that and you're listening to body Bags today, friends, 127 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: I'm encouraging you get pick the phone and call and 128 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 3: get it off your chest. 129 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's an infection of the soul of the spirit, 130 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: I think. And it's almost like getting a boil lanced 131 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: after all this time, getting a Yeah, getting a boil lance. 132 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: But you said that that was such a great Southern way. 133 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: You said that it didn't come out as boil until 134 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 3: I said it. You said bowl a bowl. 135 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah that is. 136 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: I get mocked every day for saying school the way 137 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 3: I say school. Okay, yeah, because it's a California thing, 138 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 3: I guess. But whenever I hear that boil, it's like 139 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 3: you said, lance a boil, and I'm like a bowl. 140 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 3: How do you lance a bowl? I eat cereal out 141 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: of a bowl. I don't. 142 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, this one you wouldn't. Uh yeah, you would, really, 143 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: you would, really. I think that. You know, There's there's 144 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: been times in my life where I've done things you 145 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: know that I'm I'm ashamed of, and I didn't tell anybody. 146 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: Of course I wound up getting caught. Yeah, but you know, 147 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,239 Speaker 1: because the truth is always going to find you out 148 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: most of the time. But yeah, in in this case, 149 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: you're wrong with with this young girl and she was 150 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: She's seventeen years old, David Junior in high school. I 151 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: would imagine that the lions share of her family is gone, 152 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: is gone. I know that her mom and dad passed 153 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: away a couple of a couple of years back, a 154 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: few years back, as a matter of fact. But you know, 155 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: one of the people that's the real hero in this, 156 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: and I encourage you to look this woman up is 157 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: actually this young girl's cousin by the name of Kathy, 158 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: Kathy Tull like Jethrow t U l L. And it's 159 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: because of her and other family members that still exists. 160 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: They kept her alive in their memories. And you know, 161 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know, we're in the midst of 162 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: the holidays right now and as of this recording, and 163 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, I always think about the empty chairs around 164 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: the table, and I'm sure that with missus Tull, she 165 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: could still she still has a memory probably of being 166 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: thanks Giving and Christmas and all of the other Easter 167 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: dinner after church and whatnot. And you know, there's always 168 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: been that vacant chair. And it's one thing if you 169 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: lose somebody to natural death, Dave, but when you have 170 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: a young life that is snuffed out like this where 171 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, because this is a small town, this is 172 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: in Wahoo, Nebraska, you know the facts because they have 173 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: stayed with you all of these many years. They know 174 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: that she was found in this desolate area. They know 175 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: that she was abandoned in a ditch. They know that 176 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: she was brutalized with an edge weapon and left for 177 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: dead out there in the middle of nowhere in March 178 00:11:49,960 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty nine. I have memories from the sixties 179 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: when I was a very small child, of ladies wearing 180 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: white gloves. I don't know if you have a memory 181 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: of that or if you ever saw that. And there 182 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: was always, of course, the requisite patent leather purse, but 183 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: I do remember white gloves that were worn generally on 184 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 1: formal occasions, those sorts of things, And I don't know, 185 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: those gloves are generally kind of a linen. And you know, 186 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: in March, in March in Nebraska, it's as my granny 187 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: used to say, it's colder and a well digger's button IDIHO. 188 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: I don't know where she goes to validate that statement, 189 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: but or where she went to validate that statement. I'm 190 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: assuming that all well diggers butts in Idaho are cold, 191 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: but it would have been very, very cold. This is 192 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: one of the scriptors that I saw about about this 193 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: poor young girl, Dave is that those white gloves that 194 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: she was wearing had turned red. They turned red because 195 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: they were super saturated with her blood. And I don't know. 196 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: For all I know, maybe the blood of the assailant, Dave. Well, 197 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: you know. 198 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 3: It happened March twenty fifth into twenty six, nineteen sixty nine. 199 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: Mary Kay has The's body was found in a roadside 200 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 3: ditch south of Waking, Nebraska, just after midnight March twenty sixth, 201 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine. Hassei had been stabbed over a dozen times, 202 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 3: and the reason there was blood on those gloves, defensive wounds, 203 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 3: showed that she fought hard against her killer. The part 204 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 3: about fighting back that we know is it leaves evidence. 205 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: It leaves evidence on the killer, and oftentimes it leaves 206 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: evidence on the victim of the killer. Fighting back actually 207 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 3: does something for the investigation. And it still ain't cold. Now, 208 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 3: I don't know what investigation was like in nineteen sixty nine. 209 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: I'm going to back up and think, Okay, you're gonna 210 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: look for fingerprints, you're gonna look for blood type. That's 211 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: about all you've got there, and you're gonna look for what. 212 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: Well, I think that let's just roll with this idea 213 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: that these are in fact, I guess you could say 214 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: if they were white leather gloves, this could happen too. 215 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: But just think if they were those little daming white 216 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: linen gloves. Guess what that could capture. It could actually 217 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: capture hair off of a potential contact that she had had, 218 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: whether it be the perpetrator or maybe a friend. And 219 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: this is something we don't really talk a lot about 220 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: on on body bags. We spend a lot of time 221 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: talking about talking about DNA, but you know, with and 222 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: I don't I have no inside knowledge, so I don't 223 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: know if if fiber evidence was found on this clothes. 224 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: But you know, one of the things that we do 225 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: is that our people in trace evidence will do is 226 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: they'll look for hairs. Now you've got several different types 227 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: of hairs. Obviously, first off you have to say, well, 228 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: is this an animal hair? Is it human hair? And 229 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: if it's a fiber, you have to determine is it 230 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: a synthetic fiber or is it a naturally occurring fiber. Okay, 231 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: so you've got a myriad of things that it could be. 232 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: And then if it is a human hair, you look 233 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: for morphology of the hair that is it's a microscopic 234 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: examination where every type of hair out there will have 235 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: a something that is you need about it. Now you 236 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: can classify it into multiple categories, and you can't do 237 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: too much. You can't go absent DNA, you can't dig 238 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: too deep with it, but you can determine many times 239 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: certain types of hair will have racial characteristics. Many times 240 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: they do. As a matter of fact, you can also 241 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: in the case of people that dye their hair. Did 242 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: you know when you throw a hair under a microscope 243 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: and take a look at it, you can see the 244 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: little boundaries of the dye and you can see the 245 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: extension of the hair as it is growing up the shaft. 246 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen somebody that has like has like 247 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: blonde blonde hair and they've got black roots. Well, if 248 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: you look at that, for instance, under a microscope, you 249 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: can actually see the root and you can see the 250 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: demarcation where that old hair is growing out, and you 251 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: can actually establish a time with it. If you've got 252 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: gray hair, you know that odds are that you know 253 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: you're dealing with somebody that is an upper age range 254 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: here as opposed to being a younger person. So there's 255 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: kind of a way to whittle those things down. So 256 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: the devil is in the details, you know, relative to this. 257 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: If she is, and I have no reason to believe 258 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: that she was not. If she's completely clothed, you can 259 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: actually see handprints. If there's this much blood on her body, 260 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: there's a high probability that the perpetrator would have had 261 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: blood transferred to their hands. Now I've seen cases where 262 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: I've actually seen contact blood in the form of a handprint. 263 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: Now you can't really get a lot of detail out 264 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: of it, but you can see, like if someone touches 265 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: someone's cheek with an open hand, and you can see 266 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: that impression that's left behind by the bloody handprint. It's 267 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: transferred over. You can see it on the surface of clothing. 268 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,959 Speaker 1: Had a lady that broke a knife off in her 269 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: drunk husband's back because he had been belt whipping her 270 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: for a month. And you could see where she leverashed 271 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: herself on top of his body with her left hand 272 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: as she's driving the knife into his back with her 273 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: right hand and actually broke the blade off in his back. 274 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: It was like a Walmart steak knife, something you buy 275 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: your kids before you send them off to college. Cheap 276 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: steak knife, and you can actually see, you can understand 277 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: movement by that. I don't know how sophisticated they would 278 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: have been at that point in time in Wahoo, Nebraska. 279 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: The other thing I would draw into question here is 280 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: who would have done the evidence collection on her body? Now, 281 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: Nebraska or still does have county corners, So I wonder 282 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: if a local corner would have done the autopsy. Because 283 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine how many homicides they actually had in 284 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: this little town back then. It gives me pause and 285 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: makes me think, well, you know, Dave, they how many 286 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: miles did you say? I can't recall. Is it from Omaha? 287 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: Was it like eighty eighty or ninety? Yeah, it's not 288 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: an unreasonable distance for them to have taken a case 289 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: like this to like Omaha, where they may have had 290 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 1: a board certified forensic pathologist, and maybe the state police 291 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: would have gotten involved as far as the collection of evidence, 292 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: because now, and refresh my memory again, we're talking fifty 293 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: five years later. Anything they would have collected brother at 294 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: that autopsy would have been shelved. And I don't mean 295 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: that in a negative way, because we know for a 296 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: fact this case went cold. It has been sitting there 297 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: loathed these many years, and you think, well, what did 298 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: they do with it? What did they do with it? 299 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: How was it treated, how was it handled? And has 300 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: anybody taken it and cracked the seals in those bags 301 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: since that moment in time and done a reassessment of 302 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: of those items. It's hard. It's hard to understand, you know, 303 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: what they may have done with the clothing and the 304 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: other items during this period of Tom fifty five years. 305 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Over a fifty five year period. 306 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: You know. 307 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 3: One of the amazing things about this case, Joe is 308 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 3: it did go cold. And you know her body was 309 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 3: found less than five miles from her own home. 310 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And that. 311 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 3: Bears repeating because the family. I'm reading over some of 312 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 3: the things the family has posted you and they have 313 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 3: you can read the you can hear pain in their 314 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 3: voice when they're writing about the time and how they've 315 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 3: breaked themselves over the colder. Why didn't we do X, 316 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 3: Y and Z, and also how they never let this case. 317 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: We say it went cold, it went cold. From the 318 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 3: standpoint that law enforcement doesn't have the means to keep 319 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 3: a case open and active every day searching for answers. 320 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 3: They they do it as long as they can, and 321 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 3: then another case with freshure evidence comes in, and other 322 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: one piles on and pretty soon you've got ten and 323 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 3: it's a year or two later. And I'm not making 324 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 3: excuses for cases going cold, but that is what happens. 325 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 3: It's the reality of the world that we live. 326 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's almost put it in economic terms, 327 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: economic or economic economy. Either it's compounding interest. I mean, 328 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: it really is. It builds out that way, you know, 329 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: because they're going to be cold cases, and there's a 330 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: lot of cold cases. The only cold cases that we 331 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: are really aware of are those things that have captured, 332 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: have captured the imagination, you know, you know, for all 333 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: of these years now people would say that Jean Benet, 334 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: for instance, is not a cold case. But let's face 335 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: it, it's kind of a cold case. Jack the Ripper for instance. 336 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper is cold case. But people are fascinated 337 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: by that by that a seventeen year old in a 338 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: ditch in rural Nebraska is not It's not going to 339 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: capture the same attention as some mad butcher in the 340 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds walking through Whitehall and killing prostitutes and 341 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: disemboweling them. In a few instances and those sorts of things. 342 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: It's just not and that's a horrible thing to say. 343 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: But as you know, you and I have both been 344 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: in the media for a long time, you for a 345 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: very long time. You know, if it bleeds, leads, and 346 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: even those cases that bleed and lead, soon they vanish, 347 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: you know, they vanish from the mind because there's other 348 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: things that are developing all along. It's interesting to me though, 349 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: in this case, I think that if you look at 350 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: this case, Dave, you can learn a whole lot about 351 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: the perpetrator here. And this is why I think that 352 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: this was something that the perpetrator would have known of her. 353 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: He would have specifically targeted her. My understanding that she 354 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: had been standing or last seen standing on a street 355 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: corner that same night. And I do not mean any 356 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: disrespect by that. I mean people walked around in these 357 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: small towns all the time, unlike nowadays where we're afraid 358 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: to let our kids leave the house. You know, you 359 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: had kids that were on foot back then. They might 360 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: be sitting on street corner and if you've got a 361 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: predator that's out there and can snatch her off of 362 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: the street corner, she's gone in a matter of seconds. 363 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: First off, people in nineteen sixty nine didn't expect this 364 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: sort of thing to happen, Dave, It just didn't. It 365 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: was a different world back then. But going to my point, 366 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: we can learn a lot about the person that did 367 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: this based upon the deposition of her boss. They had 368 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: to have a vehicle because now they're you know, not 369 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: that Wahoo is a huge metropolitan area, but compared to 370 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: where she was found five miles away, this location where 371 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: she's found is isolated. He would have to have intestinal 372 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: fortitude to snatch her, you know, just out of the 373 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: blue like this. He would have to have a plan. 374 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: I don't know that the plan really worked out the 375 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: way that this individual may have thought that it would. 376 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: He's driving her away, and this is something that is 377 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: that he expedited because he didn't go off into farmland. 378 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: Remember our two moms that were dumped in a field 379 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, they were prepped for that. They and I 380 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: should say not dumped but buried. They went to a 381 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: specific location that was planned out, Dave. This perpetrator dumped 382 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: this poor child's body in a ditch adjacent to a roadway. 383 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: This is something that happened really quick if she's she 384 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: knows that something's up. I think the fight probably started 385 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: in the car, you know, it probably started in the car, 386 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: and she's resisting. And can you imagine you've got this 387 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: seventeen year old that you think is going to be compliant. 388 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: You're driving down the road with one hand, and she's 389 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: fighting back, and you've had all you can take by 390 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: the time you get five miles out of day. 391 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: It's interesting because she was reported missing Joe, and you 392 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 3: mentioned how she was seeing on a street. You know, 393 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 3: she was seeing in nineteen sixty nine, we did walk 394 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 3: around and ride our bikes and we did things. And 395 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 3: if you were a seventeen year old in nineteen sixty nine, yes, 396 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 3: you were out. I mean, it wasn't uncommon it is now. 397 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 3: I mean, I would not let my child out of 398 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 3: my sight at night on the street period. In my neighborhood. 399 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 3: I wouldn't. And I live in a nice neighborhood, but 400 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 3: I wouldn't allow that to happen here. And the one 401 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 3: thing that we do know about this is that she 402 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 3: did fight back, and it was in the fighting back 403 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 3: with the stranger that allowed her a tip came in. 404 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 3: You know, we mentioned the tip line You have to 405 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: remember people did see something. There were clues that were 406 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 3: left by her. Mary Kay, she's the one that fought, 407 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 3: and she was disposed of. She wasn't controlled, she wasn't 408 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 3: taken out into a barn and hidden. She was just 409 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 3: disposed of, like you're throwing a cigarette out going down 410 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 3: the road. Done, boom, get out. 411 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 412 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 3: And it's a total lack of conscience to care so 413 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 3: little about another human being to do that. I don't 414 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 3: even know what she dead when she hit the dirt 415 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,719 Speaker 3: in the ditch, you know, or snow. I believe there 416 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 3: was snow on the ground when she was disposed of 417 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 3: on the side of the road. But the tips that 418 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 3: came in people did see her that night, They did 419 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 3: see some things. They saw other people. There were for 420 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: years rumors about what took place, but nobody could solve it. 421 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 3: We mentioned that tip line, Joe, you realize somebody did 422 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 3: call that tip line with a tip. It was a 423 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 3: tip so specific that they exhumed the body of Mary 424 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 3: Kay Hasse And it was the exhumation that led to 425 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 3: the evidence that led to people like you, Joe, getting 426 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 3: the actual physical evidence in front of you and going, hey, 427 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 3: I think we've got something here. 428 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: And it is. And I think, going back to our 429 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: earlier premise, Dave, the idea that you can walk away 430 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: from something potentially something that is so horrific and you 431 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: think that it's just going to fade into the background. 432 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: But I got to tell you, whether it's in a 433 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: ditch or the depths of some swamp somewhere, or in 434 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,199 Speaker 1: a six foot deep and grave, there's always knowledge to 435 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: be gleaned by following the coops. Brother, you put it 436 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: out there. I got to ask you, Dave, what do 437 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: you think they were looking for in that grave with 438 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: the body of a seventeen year old girl that has 439 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: been buried for decades, decades and that cold, cold earth 440 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: out there, what do you think that they were looking for? 441 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 3: You know, I've tried to figure it out. Yeah, and 442 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: I've looked every which way I can. And I'm thinking, Okay, Joe, 443 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 3: what can you find from a body that has been 444 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 3: I know, embalmed and everything else, But what can you 445 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 3: possibly find of evidenceiary value on a corpse that's been 446 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 3: in the ground for fifty five years? And I mean 447 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 3: that in the nicest way possible. I don't if you 448 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 3: open it up in the air hits it does it 449 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 3: turn into dust like we've seen in movies sometimes? Are 450 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 3: we going to open it up and see that the 451 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 3: person's hair continues to grow and their nails are like 452 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 3: our used I don't know, is it going to be 453 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: the keeper or is it going to look like a person. 454 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 3: What are we going to see? I have no idea. 455 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: Well, a lot of that depends upon how well she 456 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: was embalmed. 457 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 3: And really, okay, that does come into play, then it. 458 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: Does to preservation of the body itself in its post 459 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: mortem state, and keep in mind she would have been autopsy. 460 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: They have to track all these wounds. I think you 461 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: had mentioned, and I know that there were twelve twelve 462 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: stab wounds or sharp horse injury one. 463 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: They had enough injuries on her to know that there 464 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 3: was a fight, that it was involved. She had twelve 465 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: her stab wounds were mostly in the back, but twelve 466 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 3: major stab wounds, and she had defensive wounds. And I 467 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 3: don't know if they count those as stab wounds. Are 468 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: like if they would you count. 469 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: No unless hands. Well, if we have to understand that 470 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: it's a stab wound if the knife pierces the skin 471 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: with a tip and passes into into that element of 472 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: the body, and that can be in the forearm because 473 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: people I've had people that throw their arms up defensively 474 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: and the knife is driven into their forearm, and certainly 475 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: in the hands. Now most of the time with the hands, 476 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: you've got people that are grabbing the blade. But David, 477 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: let me throw something out to you real quick. It's 478 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: one of my morganisms. I guess I used that I 479 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: use with my students, and it has I think that 480 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: it bears fruit in forensics, and I would submit in 481 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: classic sciences too, but particularly in forensics, because we're talking 482 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: about trying to determine who a perpetrator might be. I 483 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: hold that negative findings are just as important as positive findings. 484 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: I think I think at least that they were looking 485 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: for something on the body that they had been seeking 486 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time. They had to exhume 487 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: her body to see if it was there. I don't 488 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: think it was there. I think the family possessed it 489 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: the entire time. And what I'm talking about is a 490 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: necklace that she always wore. She always wore a necklace, 491 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: and for years they thought that it was lost. And 492 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, Miss Tull, who is Mary Kay's cousin has 493 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: been in possession of this necklace, and more than likely 494 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: what happened was was that when they went into that 495 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: casketed body, they opened the body or opened the casket up, 496 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: and they're looking for this thing and it's like a 497 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: little silver necklace that's got a silver cross on the 498 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: end of it. It wasn't there, and people had been 499 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: looking for it for years. And I think that perhaps, 500 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: just perhaps, Dave, this necklace was collected at the autopsy 501 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: and the family and let me see, how can I 502 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: put this? The powers that be at that time did 503 00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: not see value in this piece of jewelry. We say, 504 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: you know how, We'll say things like we have that 505 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: kind of boilerplate statement, Dave, that I've always exposed you 506 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: to about no signs of the fourth century or struggle. 507 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: Another piece of this that we make comment about is 508 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: that we always make comment about does the subject have 509 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: their wallet? Okay, does the subject? Is the subject wearing jewelry? 510 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: Because if you've got homicide victim that that is in 511 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: possession of these items still on their person, then your 512 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: suspicion of robbery is declining all the while because they've 513 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: got items of value. Maybe the answer rest somewhere, but 514 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, they may not have followed that lead 515 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: at that moment, Tom and Dave, I really wonder, I 516 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: really really wonder if that necklace, which it turns out 517 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: the family was in possession of and thought that it 518 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: had been lost for years and years. I wonder if 519 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: after all this time that necklace had scientific value to 520 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: it and it was turned over to the police. 521 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 3: Okay, because the police did develop leads. They believe that 522 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 3: Mary Kay got into a car with two men. They 523 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 3: believe that these were men that they were going to 524 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 3: go for a ride. Not an uncommon thing in nineteen 525 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 3: sixty nine for teenagers top in the car and go 526 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 3: for a ride. It was something we did. I was 527 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 3: at the tail end of that in my years. But 528 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 3: keenes back in the day, in the sixties and early seventies, 529 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 3: they would go out and ride. There weren't a lot 530 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 3: of things for young people to do, and going out 531 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 3: riding around, finding a place where people are hanging out, 532 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 3: having a party. And that's what they suggested she did, 533 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 3: and that she got into a car with two people 534 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 3: that she knew, at least one of them that she 535 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 3: knew from a restaurant and got in the car. Now, 536 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: they had these two people in mind, but one of 537 00:34:53,560 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 3: them committed suicide in nineteen seventy seven, so he was done. 538 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 3: You know, the investigation had already gone cold by then, 539 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,479 Speaker 3: and he's dead. 540 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 2: Right. 541 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 3: The car that they believe was used allegedly got dumped 542 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 3: into a pond somewhere, and by the time they got 543 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 3: around to finding it, now they wasn't anything they could find. 544 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 3: They didn't have the money to go pull it out. 545 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 3: So again a dead end, so to speak. But do 546 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 3: you really what would be the point of going in 547 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 3: for something that? Do they to find a piece of 548 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 3: jewelry that the family has? Does the family know they 549 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 3: have it and they know that's what they're looking for? 550 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 3: Are they hoping that it'll gain attention for the that 551 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 3: it'll bring attention back to this crime that has gone 552 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 3: unsolved and that the you know, because well, whenever a 553 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 3: body is disinterred or. 554 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: What is it called, yeah, disinterred, Okay, exhumed. 555 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 3: Exhumed, That's what I was trying to think, Right, we 556 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 3: talk about it, and you know, if it's an old 557 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 3: murder like that, yes, we're going to be talking about that. 558 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 2: What did they do it for? 559 00:35:59,719 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: Yeah? 560 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 3: And if they think, maybe there's somebody out here that's 561 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 3: still alive, maybe this will make him or her crack. 562 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: Maybe they'll cough up some information because hey, a tip 563 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 3: was called in to the tip line set up by 564 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 3: her cousin. Think about that, Joe. 565 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And. 566 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 1: You know, Dave depended upon how well her body was embalmed. 567 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: Do you know those injuries would still be appreciable after 568 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: this period of time if water, if they'd prevented water 569 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: intrusion out there, say the water table hadn't risen to 570 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 1: where it had impacted the body so that the body 571 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: was so degraded by that, and the casket had remained sealed. 572 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: I'll be very anxious to see if there is ever 573 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: an autopsy report. First off, I would love to see 574 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: the original autopsy report, right okay, documenting these injuries, and 575 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: they're not going to make that available to the public 576 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: because this is an act case. Now after all, the 577 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: may I say it again, I'd love saying this fifty 578 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: five years later. And then I would like to see 579 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: the second the second report that is generated by a 580 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist in the wake of the exhumation to understand 581 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,759 Speaker 1: what was left behind. And also if there was a 582 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: directive on the part of the investigators saying, look, Doc, 583 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: when you crack this casket open, first off, we want 584 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: to be there, all right, there's something specific we're looking for, 585 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: because what are you going to be looking for in 586 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: an exhamation fifty five years later that you didn't see 587 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: all those years back, Because there's a there is a 588 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: significant chance that the body will be degraded to the 589 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: point where a lot of stuff is not going to 590 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: be appreciable. You know, even even her her funeral clothes 591 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: is probably going to be greatly degraded. The lining of 592 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 1: the casket is going to be degraded, and some of 593 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: that is just over time. It's not not necessarily having 594 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: to do with the water table. So they're taking a 595 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: big chance here and getting an order for exhumation dave 596 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 1: is not something that that is easily done. I'm actually 597 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm having flashbacks to Tammy Davell right now, where you know, 598 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: her body was exhumed after all those years, and it's 599 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: not something that's easy to do. You have to go 600 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: before a judge, and the judge it's almost like looking 601 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: at a warrant before a judge will sign off on 602 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: a warrant or a magistrate. You have to have everything 603 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: in place. They don't like cracking graves open. As a 604 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: matter of fact, I would submit to you it's tougher 605 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: to get an order of exhamation than it is to 606 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: get a search warrant. They just they don't like to 607 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: do it. It's something and I've gone round and round 608 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: with them in cases over the course of my career 609 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: working with the police that they want to get an 610 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: exhamation and judges. It doesn't matter if it was in 611 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 1: Georgia or Louisiana. They just they don't like to do it. Man. 612 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,399 Speaker 3: Well, Eventually, after pushing, Kathy Toll stayed on the case. 613 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 3: That's the cousin. She stayed on it. She posted the 614 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 3: social media, she made the calls to police. She talked 615 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 3: about she was the driving force behind getting the exhamation done, 616 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 3: and she said she cried. She watched it happen at 617 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 3: a distance the whole time crying did I do the 618 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 3: right thing? Did I do the right thing by getting 619 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 3: this to happen. But it was a series of events 620 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 3: that took place from the tip line that led to 621 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 3: the exclamation, that led to people coming forward, that led 622 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 3: to them developing an actual suspect, and Joe, the suspect 623 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 3: they're talking about was somebody who had been in prison 624 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 3: in the sixties. He had been in there for forgery 625 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 3: and escape and was out at the time the murder happened, 626 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 3: and since that time has been in and out of trouble, 627 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 3: has lived in several states. I think it's nine states 628 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 3: in twelve different places. I mean, it's a large amount 629 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 3: of moving around. But after fifty five years, they have 630 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 3: a suspect and they have him in custody, they indicted him. 631 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 3: How do you go about that, Joe, tell us what 632 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 3: happens in the endictment, because don't you get information and 633 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,800 Speaker 3: you as the I mean, I'm going to go to 634 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 3: a forensic guy and tell me explain this. What does 635 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 3: this mean. It can't be a cup that all of 636 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 3: a sudden I found, No. 637 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: It can't be. It's got to be the totality of 638 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: the evidence that you've collected up until that point. That 639 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: the word that you need to focus on here is compelling, 640 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,320 Speaker 1: because what you're doing is, if you're a law enforcement officer, 641 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: you're a salesman at this point in time. I hate 642 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: to reduce it down to that but I don't sense 643 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,439 Speaker 1: you have to sell it to the court. First off, 644 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: you've got to sell it to the DA. And these 645 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 1: are political animals, So is a DA. Are they worth 646 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: sticking their neck out on a fifty five year old 647 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: case to say, all right, we will enjoin with you 648 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: on this thing. We're going to help you structure on 649 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: a arrest warrant, which they would have. The DA would 650 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: have been front and center on this, and they're going 651 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: to go to a judge and they're going to get 652 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: this thing signed off. And Dave, it's he wasn't in Nebraska. 653 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: He was an Oklahoma And so now I would imagine 654 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: that you have probably gotten the local authorities and I 655 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: think it's Podcast City, Oklahoma, and you will have probably 656 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: involved US marshals as well, and they're going to roll in. 657 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: They're going to roll in, and they're going to be 658 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: kicking doors in. 659 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 3: That's what I was watching the news coverage, you know, 660 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 3: because there was a local TV station there that's been 661 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 3: following this and doing an excellent job. 662 00:41:59,280 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 2: I love local. 663 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you find some really really good reporting, and they 664 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 3: did a good job. They followed this case. They were 665 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 3: very respectful. I've reviewed so much of the coverage. But 666 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 3: I can't tell you enough. I cannot express this to 667 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 3: you enough. If you have a missing person in your family, 668 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,840 Speaker 3: a crime that's a cold case, you have to be 669 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 3: the driving force. In this case, it was Kathy Tall, 670 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 3: the cousin who just could not let this go away. 671 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,479 Speaker 3: She pushed the bus, she pushed everything. She was there 672 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 3: for each step of the way, calling on a regular basis, 673 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 3: and that's how they were actually able to bring a 674 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 3: man who is now seventy seven years old Joe. But 675 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 3: what would that make him at the time twenty two. 676 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: Twenty two years old or twenty two years old. 677 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 3: He took the life of a seventeen year old yeah, 678 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 3: and got away with it. He's now a seventy seven 679 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 3: year old man on oxygen. 680 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me tell you how this is going to 681 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: play out. You ready guess where the blame is going 682 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: to be put the guy that took his life. That's 683 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: where the blame is going to be. He's like, yeah, yeah, 684 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: well I was there. I can this is being telegraphed. 685 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: I can see it coming a mile away. That's what's 686 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 1: going to happen. Because you know, as we all said that, 687 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: and as you and I have said many times, you 688 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: can accuse the dead of anything you want to, because 689 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: they can't. They can't defend themselves. But dave a beautiful 690 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: comment on your part relative to this. You might feel 691 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,359 Speaker 1: hopeless in your life that if you've got a loved 692 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: one out there that is their case is unsolved. I 693 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: think about all the people that have approached me over 694 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: the years and still approached me today. You keep pressing, 695 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: and you never know it might wind up in a 696 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: conclusion in case that you didn't that just came out 697 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,399 Speaker 1: of nowhere. But we're glad to say that at this point, 698 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: Tom though he is innocent until proven guilty. Right now, 699 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,480 Speaker 1: Joseph A. Ambrose, who is seventy seven years old, is 700 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: now in custody and he's awaiting his day in court, 701 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: and we will see what else this case has to bear. 702 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I got to follow up of 703 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 1: this and find out what is revealed because it is 704 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: going to be something for the ages. I believe, just 705 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: the simple fact that this young girl's body was exhumed 706 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: after all of this time, what did they find, what 707 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: was revealed, and what still remains in store for the 708 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: conclusion of this case. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 709 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: is Bodybacks 710 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 3: Ye.