Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnuts Podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest today is engineer, mixer producer Chris Lord Algae. I
Speaker 1: gotta ask, Chris, I remember first seeing your brother's name
Speaker 1: on the back of Stevie Winwood's Back in the High Life.
Speaker 1: I say, tom Lord Algae. He's an English cat, So explain,
Speaker 1: you're a guy from New Jersey. Give us a backstory
Speaker 1: on the hyphenated name.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a pretty good story. My mom who got
Speaker 2: me started in this business when I was very young.
Speaker 2: Her stage name was Vivian Lord. So once she got
Speaker 2: me the job, and once I started getting some credits,
Speaker 2: I changed my name to Lord Algae as a tip.
Speaker 2: Had the hat to her because she got me started.
Speaker 2: So I used her stage name and my last name,
Speaker 2: and it was actually her sister's real last name was
Speaker 2: Gloria Lord, so I combined the two and then Tommy
Speaker 2: and Jeff Mark and Lisa we all took over. And yeah,
Speaker 2: Back in the High Life was Tommy's fast track introduction
Speaker 2: to moving from assistant to engineer on my watch because
Speaker 2: at that point I was doing so many things at
Speaker 2: once that I needed someone to help, and you know
Speaker 2: it worked out great.
Speaker 3: I pushed him into the hot seat. He did well.
Speaker 2: When the client came in, I snuck out because he
Speaker 2: would be like, Chris, can you come and show me
Speaker 2: this thing? I'm like yeah. I wanted to make sure
Speaker 2: he won and finished that record because I started it
Speaker 2: and I just you know, I wanted this was a
Speaker 2: perfect way to get him started, and my mom was
Speaker 2: happy that he won the first Grammy.
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, growing up going to school,
Speaker 1: you were Chris Algree, Yes, oh yes, I was. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's switch gears. We were having a conversation about Dolby.
Speaker 1: Is there a future for Atmost?
Speaker 2: I think there's a future for atmost if people can
Speaker 2: hear it the way I hear it. As we know.
Speaker 2: When Surround came in, it was like, oh, we're we
Speaker 2: going to put these other speakers. So if they could
Speaker 2: come up with a way where you can have nine
Speaker 2: to one four, which is, you know, thirteen speakers in
Speaker 2: your room, or a way to hear that or make
Speaker 2: it look, you know, not weird with only speakers, I
Speaker 2: think there's a future because it gives people a different
Speaker 2: way to listen to music, and it matches the theater thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, explain, not everybody's that sophisticated. Explain nine to one four.
Speaker 3: Well, nine one four would be uh. I mean that's
Speaker 3: just the numbers.
Speaker 2: So it basically needs thirteen speakers and one subwharp ers,
Speaker 2: so nine four and one so they can do it
Speaker 2: with seven. I mean in my room, I have thirteen speakers,
Speaker 2: so I have left center right, Okay, I have upper left, right,
Speaker 2: lower left, right, back, left right, bottom left right.
Speaker 3: You know, and then very back is surround.
Speaker 2: So surround was five speakers, so LCR and then left
Speaker 2: right surround. Okay, with nine to one four at most,
Speaker 2: just add four more speakers, okay, yeah, right, yes, and
Speaker 2: no no, you add four more speakers in the middle
Speaker 2: to give you upper I'm sorry, eight more speakers in
Speaker 2: the middle to get upper and mid. And that surrounds
Speaker 2: you in like a sphere of speakers. So it's almost
Speaker 2: like the format for movies at most, same same same format.
Speaker 2: So we've added more points of origin for the audio.
Speaker 1: Okay, So when you can get at most on Apple
Speaker 1: Music and you listen on headphones, can you hear all
Speaker 1: of that on headphones?
Speaker 2: You get a simulation? So Apple has immersed of audio.
Speaker 2: So by manipulating phase. They're able to assimilate, you know,
Speaker 2: the atmost experience in headphones, which is convenient, more convenient
Speaker 2: nine than all these speakers. Is it the same? No,
Speaker 2: When clients sit in my room dead center, it's our
Speaker 2: big wow. In the headphones, it's a big hm wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. We had mono, we moved to
Speaker 1: stereo in the sixties. In the seventies, there were two
Speaker 1: competing quad formats, both ultimately failed. In the nineties we
Speaker 1: had Q sound that failed. Why should this succeed when
Speaker 1: all the other ones failed?
Speaker 3: That's a good question.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel that that this is the biggest
Speaker 2: push I've seen in technology towards the you know, in
Speaker 2: audio transformation. So really, and and one thing it does
Speaker 2: is it makes the labels go into their libraries and
Speaker 2: dig out these masters and take another look at them.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: I think the major problem is if the listener can
Speaker 2: enjoy the experience, okay, then it'll then it'll fail.
Speaker 3: Maybe the car maybe that's the best way.
Speaker 2: The best place to put it in a fix because
Speaker 2: you're in a fixed position, so that that might be
Speaker 2: you know, one of the future ways to have it.
Speaker 1: Okay, someone calls you up to mix. Are you doing
Speaker 1: an outmost mix? For all the records? A few records.
Speaker 2: It's now something that is that has to be added.
Speaker 2: And the main reason is because Apple is promoting this format.
Speaker 2: When your record comes out, it'll show that you have
Speaker 2: an atmost version that will put it kind of at
Speaker 2: the top of the list like new Spatial. You know,
Speaker 2: new Spatial mixes will show up and then there's your record.
Speaker 2: So if you don't put it out that most, then
Speaker 2: you're not up there. So the labels and the bands
Speaker 2: are really pushing to now have this other format added
Speaker 2: in addition to just stereo.
Speaker 1: Okay, So generally speaking, what are people sending you to mix?
Speaker 1: They're sending you a pro Tools file with how many tracks?
Speaker 1: What are you getting on the incoming.
Speaker 2: I get their session, a pro Tool session. Sometimes it's organized,
Speaker 2: sometimes it's a complete disaster. Is it ever right? No,
Speaker 2: But it's all they send me. So yeah, I get
Speaker 2: the multi track, I get the original recording. We mix
Speaker 2: the stereo mixes. Once that's all approved, you know like
Speaker 2: with Green Day or bon Jovia. Once that's all approved,
Speaker 2: then we create the atmosphixes.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not the old days of sixteen
Speaker 1: and twenty four tracks. How many tracks might somebody might
Speaker 1: send you.
Speaker 2: I've had stuff clock in and the high two hundreds,
Speaker 2: the high three hundreds, and I no matter how big,
Speaker 2: no matter how big, that boat shows up in, I
Speaker 2: dock it on forty four feaighters sometimes forty six. If
Speaker 2: I have to push, I can get it down the
Speaker 2: forty four forty six channels.
Speaker 3: And that's it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I come in with two hundred channels. What's the
Speaker 1: first thing you do?
Speaker 2: I go through the song and I find out where
Speaker 2: all the handoffs are, which means most of the you know,
Speaker 2: the things that happen is that everything is separate.
Speaker 3: Everything is separate.
Speaker 2: So you'll have the vocal and the verse that's separate,
Speaker 2: the b sex or the chorus, they're all separate. If
Speaker 2: they don't overlap. It's a handoff. Is it usually the
Speaker 2: same sound?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: That can easily fold down. How about won there's like
Speaker 2: forty eight tracks of backgrounds. They can easily fold down
Speaker 2: to a couple of pairs without even the compromise. So
Speaker 2: there's there's three things we focus on. A handoff is
Speaker 2: when literally part A and can go to part B
Speaker 2: and parts part D on one track and it all works.
Speaker 2: And then a comp is when you would take like
Speaker 2: a low, a mid and a high harmony and just
Speaker 2: make your own blend stereo and that saves a lot,
Speaker 2: a lot of faders. And then and then overlap is
Speaker 2: when one thing overlaps with another, and then you you
Speaker 2: have to make a decision there how you make that work,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it folds down pretty quick.
Speaker 1: It is every day, Okay, you say, okaya, forty four faders?
Speaker 1: Is the goal to get forty four or many fewer? Now?
Speaker 2: Forty four is fine because some things I'll you know,
Speaker 2: because for me, I want to have the drums spread
Speaker 2: out the most because that's usually the biggest challenges to
Speaker 2: get them right. So I don't want to make compromises there.
Speaker 2: But I think, Bob, part of it is that I
Speaker 2: come from a world of twenty four track, then two
Speaker 2: twenty four tracks, then a forty eight digch tape machine,
Speaker 2: so one tape, forty eight tracks play rewind. So the
Speaker 2: reason the forty four number comes up simple on the
Speaker 2: tape on tracks one and two would be their rough
Speaker 2: mix that would stay there. Then I would need tracks
Speaker 2: three and four for my mix, and then that would
Speaker 2: leave me forty four tracks for the rest. So, no
Speaker 2: matter what, it would competent. That was the number and
Speaker 2: I'm sticking with it. Are there situations where I spread
Speaker 2: it out a little bit more, Yeah, it was if
Speaker 2: I have to, but I really I want to get
Speaker 2: it down to this manageable size and then the mixing
Speaker 2: is easy.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you do that yourself or do you have
Speaker 1: somebody who does that for you before you get involved.
Speaker 3: I do it with my assistant.
Speaker 2: I usually if I get the session at home, I'll
Speaker 2: prep it all ready for him and then he'll have
Speaker 2: it ready for me to make those decisions. So since
Speaker 2: we've been working together for years now, he knows what
Speaker 2: decisions I'm going to make, he'll have those ready and
Speaker 2: I'll fine tune those comps you know, or or edits,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 3: Go from there so we can always go back and
Speaker 3: redo it.
Speaker 2: That's the great thing about protals is that with two
Speaker 2: twenty four tracks, Hey, you got to make a decision.
Speaker 1: Okay, you got all forty four tracks up on the board.
Speaker 1: What's your next step? Uh?
Speaker 2: Well, we'll find out what this. You know, we'll listen
Speaker 2: to the rough mix. We'll put the cues in, which means, okay,
Speaker 2: verse one B one, chorus one. Well, look, well, just
Speaker 2: look how this song was built. Okay, And I'll put
Speaker 2: the faders up and I'll look for where the problems
Speaker 2: are and look where the magic is. So most of
Speaker 2: the time, if I get the rhythm section to sound
Speaker 2: right and the vocals to sound right, everything else falls
Speaker 2: in between. So the vocals the most important thing in
Speaker 2: the record. So I'll make sure I find all that
Speaker 2: stuff and fix that all first.
Speaker 1: Okay, you fix it? Then to what degree do you
Speaker 1: add EQ in effects? And when.
Speaker 3: It's constant?
Speaker 2: So I mean EQ and compression is constant, And it's
Speaker 2: really the vocals get the most comple I should the
Speaker 2: most EQ, the most editing to get what I call
Speaker 2: a sound, to get more of an analog sound. If
Speaker 2: you look back in the in the early days of recording,
Speaker 2: I mean they built the sound in. They didn't have
Speaker 2: all these options. Later later it was just let's just
Speaker 2: turn some knobs and make it balance. Mixing is really
Speaker 2: about getting a great balance and letting the song breathe.
Speaker 3: So yeah, the.
Speaker 2: Vocals will get most of the treatment and the drums
Speaker 2: will be like, Okay, do I need to add samples
Speaker 2: or not to make it do what I wanted to do,
Speaker 2: because the drums are always the holy grail to make
Speaker 2: the record work, and a lot of these recordings are
Speaker 2: not ideal and you know, and I'm not, I'm not,
Speaker 2: I'm not precious about any of it. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: we better keep their kick drums sound like no, if
Speaker 2: it's not working, it's out of here.
Speaker 1: So you will literally replace and add drums.
Speaker 2: I always, I always have them ready. I always have
Speaker 2: samples ready to go, and I just seasoned to taste.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the steak shows up, it's perfect, it's medium, rare,
Speaker 2: it's got salt and pepper, a little bit of olive oil.
Speaker 3: Boom, great. And then there's times where wow, that's unedible.
Speaker 2: So I'll just start seasoning it with samples to help it,
Speaker 2: you know, have the impact and do what I think
Speaker 2: needs for the song.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the vocals. Are you using
Speaker 1: the EQ in the board or external EQ?
Speaker 2: Well, I have you know, I have all the colors.
Speaker 2: I have the biggest paint box going, so I have
Speaker 2: I have EQ compression that starts from the sixties, so
Speaker 2: plugins I actually created myself, so I'll use a little
Speaker 2: bit of everything to make it work. So there'll be
Speaker 2: some plugins in the box getting it started, and then
Speaker 2: my traditional analog compression in EQ it's to finish it.
Speaker 1: Okay. I think most people know what EQ is. Explain compression.
Speaker 2: Compression is just dynamic control. So, uh, you know a
Speaker 2: lot vocals are very dynamics, so you want it. You
Speaker 2: don't want to eye scraper in a neighborhood a single
Speaker 2: story houses, so you want to make sure if the
Speaker 2: song is working and everything's like a single story house,
Speaker 2: you want to make sure the vocal dynamic range matches
Speaker 2: the song and matches the energy. If it's an open song,
Speaker 2: you want to have it more dynamic. If it's a
Speaker 2: rock song, you only you want it to have one
Speaker 2: floor of dynamics, so it so you can understand it
Speaker 2: and it has the energy of the track as Okay.
Speaker 1: Will you ever use compression on the overall result?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that then you have on the whole On
Speaker 2: the whole mix, it's called the bus. We have a
Speaker 2: bus compressor, which means the mix bus. Okay, So whatever
Speaker 2: your mix is going through before you know you print it.
Speaker 3: I have a bus compressitors. Uh.
Speaker 2: I have a bus compressor, and I have tube eqs.
Speaker 2: I use Pulltech eqs that are tubes literally from the sixties.
Speaker 2: That sound to me automatically makes this all work better.
Speaker 2: It adds a quality of low end and hind you
Speaker 2: can't get out of a new digital eque. So I
Speaker 2: used to traditional and it's not much. It's just to
Speaker 2: top it off. That's always in. So I start with
Speaker 2: that in. I don't change it. It's that's the setting,
Speaker 2: and if it feels too much, I pull things back.
Speaker 2: But that's the set of them. And when it's done,
Speaker 2: mastering doesn't add anymore. It's like, okay, that's fine the
Speaker 2: way it is.
Speaker 1: Okay. So who do you use usually as a mastering engineer.
Speaker 2: I've been using Ted Jensen since the eighteen hundreds, kidding
Speaker 2: Ted Jensen and I go back to nineteen eighty two
Speaker 2: when I wandered in with a band demo and had
Speaker 2: to master a band demo for me, and then later
Speaker 2: on I just you know, started working him and he's
Speaker 2: just my partner, but he's my partner in audio. I mean,
Speaker 2: he knows what my sound is and he knows what
Speaker 2: makes my clients happy.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: The thing with mastering is that as long as the
Speaker 2: client's happy, it's a win for everyone. But he also
Speaker 2: understands that I don't want it to really change much.
Speaker 3: When I send it.
Speaker 2: Just just top it off, which means if I had a
Speaker 2: bright day or a dull day, just just find the
Speaker 2: balance where a record will sound the same. That's what
Speaker 2: a mastering engineers there. This song needs a little more salt.
Speaker 2: Oh this is too salty. Let's let's let's go back
Speaker 2: on that.
Speaker 1: So okay, just staying on a big topic, analog versus digital.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts there? Uh?
Speaker 2: Well, analog. Analog is like tinted windows. Okay, you roll
Speaker 2: the windows up. It's got a vibe. Digital is like
Speaker 2: clear glass. What goes in comes out with no enhancement.
Speaker 2: When you record on analog, the transients get held back.
Speaker 2: It adds a bit of compression because it can you know,
Speaker 2: it's just tape, So it adds a vibe. It actually
Speaker 2: fixes things, It makes things better, but it's noisy, and
Speaker 2: a good engineer can work with that a log That
Speaker 2: format is pretty much dead here.
Speaker 3: Someone really have to pay.
Speaker 2: Me extra money to go all analog with something could
Speaker 2: I do it?
Speaker 3: Of course?
Speaker 2: But I started out analog and I was so happy
Speaker 2: when digital came in. For the main reason is that
Speaker 2: I could create a first generation copy of everything from
Speaker 2: all the slave reels. So digital's really good because you
Speaker 2: don't really lose anything when you copy it. And with
Speaker 2: that a loog you had to really be careful and
Speaker 2: you had your hands tied you really, I mean the
Speaker 2: magic you can do now you could never do that.
Speaker 3: It was painful.
Speaker 1: Okay, you and me both know there's a lot of
Speaker 1: compromises to get music on a vinyl record. Roll loss all.
Speaker 1: You know, the Neil starts with the end. Whatever. What
Speaker 1: do you think about today's vinyl boom?
Speaker 2: I am so happy that the boom is happening for
Speaker 2: want for one reason.
Speaker 3: I'll start with the first reason.
Speaker 2: It gives the listener something to look at and read
Speaker 2: and then get a vasion. It feel like he's been
Speaker 2: transported into that record. Okay, when you looked at a
Speaker 2: Beatles album, all these records santastic, santanic majesties.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: The album covers are so intense, but you're reading it
Speaker 2: while you're listening. So let's just start there. It gives
Speaker 2: gives guys like me a place to see their name. Ah,
Speaker 2: so someone knows who actually did it, because with streaming,
Speaker 2: I mean it could be goddamn Captain Kangaroo mixed it.
Speaker 2: Nobody knows I did it, and sometimes people take your credit.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that we have something you could hold
Speaker 2: in your hand, and whether you played or not, that
Speaker 2: you have it, okay. And also I encourage my artists
Speaker 2: everyone I work with to get to make great sounding vinyl,
Speaker 2: which means if the record's too low, it's gonna be
Speaker 2: two discs, okay. If you go over a certain time,
Speaker 2: gotta make it two discs or three or four okay,
Speaker 2: Dolly was four to get sound quality. If you pack
Speaker 2: too much time on a disc, it just sounds like crap.
Speaker 2: And have a mastering engineer master it for vinyl, which means, okay,
Speaker 2: if you're gonna use a little compression in limiting or
Speaker 2: whatever these guys do for rock stuff.
Speaker 3: Don't use any of that for the vinyl, okay.
Speaker 2: And they have to eq it and cut an acetate
Speaker 2: and do it differently because of like what you said,
Speaker 2: the low end can make the needle jump.
Speaker 3: The high end has to have a high le, a
Speaker 3: limit or on it.
Speaker 2: Use the techniques to use for that. That's what mastering
Speaker 2: really was, is the magic disc cutter.
Speaker 1: Okay, I fully understand when you have analog tapes and
Speaker 1: you ultimately make a vinyl record, it doesn't quite make
Speaker 1: sense to me to start with digital and make nyl.
Speaker 1: You have a very clear sound. You're actually compromising what
Speaker 1: you have.
Speaker 2: I don't think you're actually My opinion on that is
Speaker 2: that if you take your ninety six K twenty four
Speaker 2: bit wavefile a right which we all make, and you
Speaker 2: make an album from it, it makes it sound analogue
Speaker 2: because of the limiting, because of what you have to
Speaker 2: do to get it on vinyl, because that little bit
Speaker 2: of tweaking kind of rounds it off and actually takes
Speaker 2: the harshness out of it. So I love listening to
Speaker 2: records at home, and there's just something magic about putting
Speaker 2: the needle on the record and listening to it. And
Speaker 2: I have a giant pa outside, so I mean listening
Speaker 2: out there. I mean you listen to Asia on a
Speaker 2: first pressing, It's it's magical. There's something in there that
Speaker 2: you can't take away.
Speaker 1: Ok So you mentioned Asia, any other reference Vinyl.
Speaker 3: Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Amazing.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I put on Doobie Brothers, Okay, I
Speaker 2: put on Beatles, I put on the Rolling Stones, and
Speaker 2: sometimes with the Stones, Street Fighting Man will sound better
Speaker 2: on one album and different on another. To the point
Speaker 2: where we're all having dinner. And I emailed them and said, hey,
Speaker 2: you know I'm through the past Darkly volume too. It
Speaker 2: sounds great on there, but I think on Beaker's banquet
Speaker 2: it sounded all the started and screwed up. So check
Speaker 2: that out. And he did and said, you are right.
Speaker 1: So okay, let's go into gear. So what kind of
Speaker 1: board do you have in your studio.
Speaker 2: I've been driving this bus for a long time. Solid
Speaker 2: State SSL four thousand series. I first started on it
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four and I'm not going anywhere. I'm
Speaker 2: staying with it.
Speaker 1: Okay. SSL was a breakthrough. Know it was digital, the faders.
Speaker 3: Moved, it's analog.
Speaker 1: It is analog, shows what I know. Yes, it was
Speaker 1: one of the first where the faders moved right.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, eventually they came out with Ultimation where the
Speaker 2: faders had motors and they moved. Yes, it started out.
Speaker 2: I still use one where the faders don't move if
Speaker 2: I don't want them to move. If God wanted faders
Speaker 2: to move and give them wings, I don't want faders moving.
Speaker 2: I move them, then they move where I don't want them.
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. Do you think the motors
Speaker 1: add something to the sound.
Speaker 2: Well, the reason, yeah, the reason they put the motors
Speaker 2: in was to eliminate the use of a VCA, a
Speaker 2: voltage controlled attenuator, and make it a clear path. Some
Speaker 2: people like that song. Some people can hear the difference.
Speaker 2: My brother uses ultimation. I don't hear a problem with
Speaker 2: the VCA. That's how it started, and that's how I'm
Speaker 2: going with it.
Speaker 3: I like it. I like I just like it does.
Speaker 3: But it is an improvement.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why they made it was an improvement to
Speaker 2: have no audio going through the fader.
Speaker 1: Okay. Explain that a little deeper the VCA and how
Speaker 1: the audio doesn't go through the fader. Uh.
Speaker 2: Well, the first the first console you could that you
Speaker 2: could automate, which you could have it remember your moves.
Speaker 3: It's a fault. It's controlled to tell you it's a VCA. Okay.
Speaker 2: So when they moved from that, you could actually switch
Speaker 2: from VC mode to motors on. That means the audio
Speaker 2: comes out of the chain, okay, and the and the
Speaker 2: the audio levels being controlled differently and supposed to sound
Speaker 2: a little more open, a little more punchy. But you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's apples and oranges. It's it's it's opinion. It's
Speaker 2: supposed to be better. I didn't care about it. I
Speaker 2: mean pro tools, the faders moved no matter what, you
Speaker 2: have no choice.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a nineteen eight or four.
Speaker 3: All this one's eighty six, yeah.
Speaker 1: Eighty six. Excuse me. In the last forty years, other
Speaker 1: than automation, what way have they evolved?
Speaker 2: Well, with solid state logic, Yes, the quality has evolved, okay,
Speaker 2: and everything about it is evolved. Has it made it better?
Speaker 2: Not necessarily in our music business right now, what's evolved
Speaker 2: is how cheap the stuff has gotten and how quality
Speaker 2: has gone out the window, and a lot of things
Speaker 2: and convenience has taken over. Okay, because remember these things
Speaker 2: cost a fortune. So and the old needs and the
Speaker 2: older consoles from that golden era of the seventies and
Speaker 2: eighties is where they really had high quality. Now there's
Speaker 2: still the big consoles that have great sound. But this
Speaker 2: workflow and this build makes me play it like an
Speaker 2: instrument or the newer ones, it's too much that I
Speaker 2: don't need to use, Okay, I need for it to
Speaker 2: remember my moves, remember my mutes, and take a snapshot
Speaker 2: and remember what I did.
Speaker 3: That's all I care about.
Speaker 1: And you know, when SSL came on the market, there
Speaker 1: were people who either SSL or Neve people. So what
Speaker 1: do you think about Neive, Harris and all the other
Speaker 1: boards that compete with SSL.
Speaker 2: Well, for me, I think that the Neve sound is
Speaker 2: great to capture to record with. And I've done some
Speaker 2: great albums that are recorded on a Neve console. Tina Turner,
Speaker 2: you know, and they had that golden area of the
Speaker 2: eighty fifty eight, the eighty sixty eight, the eighty seventy eight,
Speaker 2: great class a mic praise.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I still use Neve modules to record stuff. They still
Speaker 2: have the best sound. But the SSL four thousand console
Speaker 2: is a mixing machine. It was built for one purpose,
Speaker 2: to give you the ultimate production tool ever, and nothing
Speaker 2: is going to ever beat the simplicity of this. When
Speaker 2: I started out, it was two twenty four tracks, you know,
Speaker 2: being able to automate and save it and save a
Speaker 2: picture of your mix so you could recall it and
Speaker 2: put it back up. To this day, I can still
Speaker 2: recall any mix I've done in twenty years, and it's
Speaker 2: going to be really close if not spot up.
Speaker 1: Okay, before automation, you know, on certain mixes you'd have
Speaker 1: to bring multiple people into the studio to move the faders.
Speaker 1: So how do you do it? Uh?
Speaker 2: In back then, let's go back then we'll start with
Speaker 2: it back then. Back then you would have pieces of
Speaker 2: tape in the faders with little marks. Okay, So back then,
Speaker 2: when I mix with no automation, I would mix until
Speaker 2: I made a mistake and I'm printing to the half inch,
Speaker 2: so I start to mix the half inches rolling. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's going great, all right, stop the half inch when
Speaker 2: I made a mistake, back up, start the happench again, backup,
Speaker 2: pick up where I was going, and keep stopping and starting,
Speaker 2: and then edit the half inch together. We're all you
Speaker 2: know where it was correct, So you would you would
Speaker 2: make notation say okay, mix good up till the bridge. Okay,
Speaker 2: here's the chorus. This is fine. You'd have to remember
Speaker 2: the good part edited together, and it's easy to edit
Speaker 2: because you're editing this, you're editing what works together.
Speaker 3: So that's how you did mixing. You just make edits.
Speaker 2: That that was your automation, your automations you go to
Speaker 2: you make a mistake, then back up and punch it
Speaker 2: in fix apart and I tell you Living in America
Speaker 2: by James Brown went that way and many others. And
Speaker 2: when you have to go back and print like the
Speaker 2: instrumental or the TV track, you got to remember all
Speaker 2: your moves and do the same exact thing again, and that,
Speaker 2: you know what, that builds, That builds integrity.
Speaker 3: That's a great way to learn.
Speaker 2: Then when you're able to automate, it's like it's it's
Speaker 2: it's like an unbelievable dream coming true that it will
Speaker 2: remember what you do. Early systems were bad, but the
Speaker 2: SSL became the ultimate mixing machine.
Speaker 3: A Bob Clear Mountain who is my idol and I think.
Speaker 2: Probably one of the greatest, the greatest mixers of all
Speaker 2: time and a really sweet eye talented guy.
Speaker 3: He's the one that used this.
Speaker 2: Tool to turn into a superstar on mixes like Let's
Speaker 2: Dance on start Me Up Okay, where they just they
Speaker 2: and all the Springsteen stuff.
Speaker 3: They just go beyond.
Speaker 1: How much of that was the machine and how much
Speaker 1: was clear mountain.
Speaker 2: Obviously it's all the mixer's ears. But the tools enable
Speaker 2: him to go beyond what he could pull off. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you get better with the tools that you can
Speaker 2: go beyond this. Oh I could do this with it.
Speaker 2: Now I can make it do that. I hear this
Speaker 2: thing in my head. I can actually get it, and
Speaker 2: trust me. In the early eighties, you know, it was challenging.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're all trying really hard to make these things,
Speaker 2: you know, larger than life.
Speaker 3: So the tool was a miracle.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about speakers. We had our tones than
Speaker 1: nsten M's and then you know they have the big speakers,
Speaker 1: the Augsburgers. What do you use?
Speaker 2: And it's tense, the same ones I've had since nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty something, eighty seven or eighty eight. And here's a
Speaker 2: simple way to put it. I started out it was
Speaker 2: oritones in the late seventies, or maybe it was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2: The first pair showed up, Okay, and we all got
Speaker 2: into it. The thing about the ns ten like it
Speaker 2: or love it. It's the sound of hits. Okay, and
Speaker 2: whatever whatever you hear through. If you can make it
Speaker 2: work on that, the opposite is what the record is. Okay,
Speaker 2: So if you can make it work for you, what
Speaker 2: your result is. What records sound like. That's what hit
Speaker 2: records are to me. It's the it's a tool, okay,
Speaker 2: whatever it sounds like. You get used to it and you.
Speaker 3: Live with it.
Speaker 2: It becomes your tool, becomes your reference. And still to
Speaker 2: this day, if I use other speakers, the mix sounds different.
Speaker 2: Things I don't like pop up and so yeah, I
Speaker 2: stay with it. I even created it with avingtone the
Speaker 2: CLA tens, which is the best we could do to
Speaker 2: make an exact copy.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: The only real difference in mind versus the originals are
Speaker 2: mine or new and it's a fatigue, so they get
Speaker 2: a little duller like the originals. But we did the
Speaker 2: best we could do to make a match. And and
Speaker 2: that's the story on that.
Speaker 1: Okay. Back when they hit the market, everybody was putting
Speaker 1: a little piece of Kleenex over the tweeter. You still
Speaker 1: do that? What do you think about that?
Speaker 3: Well, at this point, I'm so old. I wanted to
Speaker 3: be brighter.
Speaker 2: Okay, No, I have the cover, I have the covers,
Speaker 2: really I don't even have I have the covers on them.
Speaker 2: I literally have see the original nsten ms had covers
Speaker 2: that want on right, and they look really nice. I
Speaker 2: don't want to look at the white cultun anymore. I
Speaker 2: had many years with the white colen a tissue. Now
Speaker 2: I just put the cover on it and the cover
Speaker 2: makes it dark.
Speaker 1: Okay, your speaker business, the CLA speaker, Is that a business?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a product.
Speaker 2: I have a CLA ten and a CLA ten Active,
Speaker 2: which obviously is popular because people want a powered speaker.
Speaker 2: I even have the virtual tissue paper controller.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know there's a lot of monitors
Speaker 1: out there. Can you get them through sweet Water people
Speaker 1: buying them? Or is it a very niche product?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: It's the biggest selling passive monitor there is.
Speaker 3: Everywhere Sweetwater at where everyone has them.
Speaker 1: And were you do any selling marketing or it just
Speaker 1: sells itself?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's a I do a little bit.
Speaker 2: I mean I did a few ads for it. I
Speaker 2: even made a power amp to match it, the CLA
Speaker 2: two hundred, because I wanted to have the companion that
Speaker 2: went with it, which is a power amp that that
Speaker 2: to me gets the closest sound. And we're also coming
Speaker 2: out with a subwook first, so it matches that. So
Speaker 2: and yes, Sweetwater sells it. Everybody sells it, I mean,
Speaker 2: and I sell it at the right price. I mean,
Speaker 2: I made it as cheap as possible. I just wanted
Speaker 2: engineers to have the tool because I'd get calls like, hey, Chris,
Speaker 2: I got these enus tens from eBay and they sound weird.
Speaker 2: Can you check them out for me? And they're usually
Speaker 2: mismatched or screwed up, and it's not fair that you
Speaker 2: spend your hard money and you can't trust it.
Speaker 1: So how much does a pear cost?
Speaker 2: I think they're like eight ninety nine or and the
Speaker 2: powers are nine ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Okay, and tell me about the amplifier.
Speaker 2: It's I literally took the amplifier that I use been
Speaker 2: using a Yamaha amplifier and said, look, just make a
Speaker 2: copy of this. Make something it sounds like this, built
Speaker 2: like this, and it worked, and I plugged it in
Speaker 2: and said, you know what, this feels really familiar.
Speaker 3: I'm happy with this. Okay, this does what it's supposed
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: To what degree are you a gear hit? Worrying about
Speaker 1: the wire and all kinds of other stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I don't care about the wire. I don't
Speaker 3: go that far.
Speaker 2: Look as long as it as long as it creates
Speaker 2: the sound that I'm used to. Yeah, that's it, because
Speaker 2: I have so much vintage gear, and yeah, it's all
Speaker 2: made out of unobtainium. And when it breaks, it breaks,
Speaker 2: and when it stops working, you're bummed out. But I know,
Speaker 2: you know, I know what these things say. I know
Speaker 2: what they can do for my paint box. You know,
Speaker 2: I know what color is supposed to have. But yeah,
Speaker 2: we're always tweaking and having fun always.
Speaker 1: Okay, So that particular board, how long has that been
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 2: This board's been in this room since nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 2: and it's seen it's had this particular one, which is
Speaker 2: a seventy two. I mean Tupacsichord did his records on it.
Speaker 2: Before that, it was Stone Tempo Pilot, It's a lot
Speaker 2: of rock bands. Before that, it was death Row for
Speaker 2: a minute, and then after death Row someone else took over.
Speaker 2: Then I bought the place, so about sixteen years ago,
Speaker 2: two studios, but this has been here since since new.
Speaker 3: Since new, it hasn't.
Speaker 1: Moved, Okay, so tell us about your studio complex. What
Speaker 1: do you have?
Speaker 2: Well, now I have three rooms. I have a studio A.
Speaker 2: I'm a studio B Studio A I rent out, and
Speaker 2: then I have a studio D I call. I don't
Speaker 2: really have a C. I have a studio D that
Speaker 2: I have with a brand new origin in it. So
Speaker 2: I have my partners in there. He's working, so we're
Speaker 2: fully functional. But this is like, this is my rooms
Speaker 2: and this is whatever is me is in here. Only
Speaker 2: nobody else comes in here unless I'm producing it or
Speaker 2: I'm involved.
Speaker 1: Okay, studio has been closed and left, right and center.
Speaker 1: How's your business and how do you stay open? Well,
Speaker 1: it's simple, it's got to be owner operator.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So being in the studio business is challenging unless you
Speaker 2: have a lot of loyal clients. But if you think
Speaker 2: about it right now, A and M Studios. Okay, Hence
Speaker 2: it A and M the last the five or six
Speaker 2: big ones, or left our books solid all the time
Speaker 2: now because I was working with Dwight, and Dwight couldn't
Speaker 2: find a room to finish vocals in and he always
Speaker 2: wants to be in A and M. So I mean
Speaker 2: all the last of the Mohicans are all busy, but
Speaker 2: it's an owner operator thing. You have to be the
Speaker 2: work and then you just the studios your place.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from New Jersey.
Speaker 1: Where trying to fly in New Jersey and tell people
Speaker 1: where that is in New Jersey?
Speaker 2: Got some you know, twenty minutes from the city over
Speaker 2: in Bergen County, New Jersey. I was born in Englewood,
Speaker 2: lived in Tenafly. We moved a bit. My first job
Speaker 2: was I got it H and L Studios in Anglewood.
Speaker 1: Wait, before you get there, your mother was a singer.
Speaker 1: What'd your father do for a living?
Speaker 3: My father was in the jukebox and vending business.
Speaker 1: So really.
Speaker 2: Yes, so he you know, he would jukebox and cigarettes
Speaker 2: and occasionally some pins and some bowlers, but it was
Speaker 2: jukeboxes and he had to load them up. And he
Speaker 2: had a whole room full of forty fives and it
Speaker 2: was top forty, so it was one through forty, and
Speaker 2: every week or so he would update their locations and
Speaker 2: change them. And I was able to go in there
Speaker 2: as like a tot and grab forty fives and play
Speaker 2: them and take them home.
Speaker 1: Okay, that business historically is controlled by the mob.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the mob basically forced them out. The mob said, look,
Speaker 2: you either sell to us or we're going to kill
Speaker 2: your whole family. He got pushed around by the mob
Speaker 2: to the point where he sold his company to a
Speaker 2: bigger vendor betson that were a little bit more immune
Speaker 2: to the mob influence. But no, he had guys coming
Speaker 2: in wanting to hand out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He told me the stories about the situations and when
Speaker 2: he sold out it.
Speaker 3: That was like the reason why he got out of
Speaker 3: the business.
Speaker 1: What did his father do for a living.
Speaker 2: His father was an embroiderer from Switzerland, so he comes
Speaker 2: directly from Switzerland. So, uh, my father's parents are from Switzerland.
Speaker 2: He was an embroiderer, so he embroided patches and flags
Speaker 2: and things like that.
Speaker 1: And then how did your father get into the jukebox business?
Speaker 3: You know, that's a question I don't have the answer for.
Speaker 2: But I think him and his war buddy, you know,
Speaker 2: he had a he was in World War Two, and
Speaker 2: I think as one of his close friends, you know,
Speaker 2: that was an idea for them. That was an idea
Speaker 2: to get into that business. It's all cash, and my
Speaker 2: father loved music. He's the top forty guy. He was
Speaker 2: the one saying he'd hear a song on mind already, goes,
Speaker 2: is that one of ours? I'm like, no, Dad, that's
Speaker 2: somebody else. Why isn't that yours? That's a good song,
Speaker 2: that's a hit. He'd hear Mine goes, you know what,
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to go. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's going to do anything.
Speaker 3: And then that.
Speaker 2: Stevie winning He goes, Yeah, that stev Went went thing
Speaker 2: that's gonna go. That's that that higher love thing, and
Speaker 2: that that's a good one.
Speaker 3: That'll go. Watch them it watch it. He's right, it's funny.
Speaker 1: And tell me about your mother's career.
Speaker 2: My mom was, you know, a diehard jazz artist, professor
Speaker 2: of music. She taught she you know, she taught music.
Speaker 2: She lived it, she breathed it.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: She played every day till the day she died. I
Speaker 2: mean she always had the pianos, always played and uh
Speaker 2: and I did four records with their jazz records. She
Speaker 2: was just hardcore jazz, intelligent, very smart. But you know,
Speaker 2: raising five kids, it's a challenging being out in those
Speaker 2: little clubs, dinner clubs, playing it's you know, you got
Speaker 2: to have a lot of patience and a lot of
Speaker 2: a lot of pride to hold on to that.
Speaker 1: So in the five kids, where are you in the hierarchy.
Speaker 3: I'm right in the middle, right in the middle.
Speaker 1: So so what is everybody doing today?
Speaker 2: Ah, I mean, you know, there's five, but it's now
Speaker 2: six because before she got married, she had a child
Speaker 2: at wedlock, which is my older sister.
Speaker 3: So I have a I have an.
Speaker 2: Older sister, an older brother, and another older sister, and uh
Speaker 2: my two younger brothers. Obviously Tommy does the same thing
Speaker 2: I do. My brother Jeff was younger. He does live
Speaker 2: sound in the in the in the Pacific North, in
Speaker 2: the well in the West in Wyoming. My older brother
Speaker 2: was in the vending business. He's retired. He was he
Speaker 2: took over my dad's but he took over doing that.
Speaker 2: He basically worked for a mobster. I mean, he worked
Speaker 2: for guys that were questionable.
Speaker 3: H he did.
Speaker 2: He was probably the greatest guy who could fix a
Speaker 2: jukebox or a pinball, and he knows every single model.
Speaker 2: And then my you know, my sister is a complete entrepreneur. So, uh,
Speaker 2: the music thing was me and my two brothers. Really,
Speaker 2: my two younger brothers. We really went for it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what kind of kid were you? Growing up?
Speaker 1: Good or bad? In school? Friend? Sports?
Speaker 2: Uh? The school didn't last till it ended in eighth grade,
Speaker 2: so uh, I just carried.
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Speaker 1: Let's start with the school. The lawe is you have
Speaker 1: to go to school till you're sixteen. Needles to say
Speaker 1: you're not sixteen in eighth grade. So what exactly happened?
Speaker 2: Well, my mom saw that I wasn't really interested in school.
Speaker 2: I was more interested in music and recording because I
Speaker 2: would take her equipment. She just had like a real toreal,
Speaker 2: a few mics in a mixer. I took that into
Speaker 2: the basement. I started at eleven, twelve years old, recording
Speaker 2: a little band down there, and I would cut school
Speaker 2: and we'd hang out make music. And she finally realized, well,
Speaker 2: he's not going to go to school, I better get
Speaker 2: him a job. So yeah, by eighth grade, I didn't
Speaker 2: even finish eighth grade, and I got a job at
Speaker 2: a studio at thirteen fourteen, and at thirteen.
Speaker 1: The government never came over and said, this guy's not sixteen,
Speaker 1: he's got to go back to school. Nope, okay, and
Speaker 1: you did go to school. You have a lot of friends,
Speaker 1: you play sports or more of a.
Speaker 2: Loaner, total loaner, and mostly into the music. And because
Speaker 2: I've had long hair, the greasers would pick on me.
Speaker 2: And because I wanted to hang out in the music
Speaker 2: room with a few of my other friends or smoke
Speaker 2: pop behind the school, all the greasers would come after
Speaker 2: me because I was the hippie. And it was you know,
Speaker 2: it was always the greasers versus the freaks, right, And
Speaker 2: that's how that went.
Speaker 3: So getting out of school was a win.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you have any kids.
Speaker 2: I have a twenty twenty two year old daughter who's
Speaker 2: graduates college next week.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's my question. Did you tell her she's got
Speaker 1: to go to college? Did you want to go to college?
Speaker 2: I just no, I just said, you do whatever you want.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna I'll whatever. I'll take care of
Speaker 2: your schooling as far as you want to go. So
Speaker 2: it's I'm not telling you what to do at all.
Speaker 2: So no, she she's a great student, has done very well,
Speaker 2: and she's gone all the way and she might even
Speaker 2: go to you know, a mastering whatever. The next level is,
Speaker 2: but I think at this point I like to see
Speaker 2: her get some real work experience because I believe that's
Speaker 2: part of my success is starting at such an early age,
Speaker 2: you actually it becomes part of you.
Speaker 1: Then. Okay, many people of our vintage started off playing
Speaker 1: instruments being in band, especially after the Beatles hit did
Speaker 1: you ever play?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I played a little bit of everything. So I
Speaker 2: was a piano player, drummer, guitar player. In my band,
Speaker 2: I was a guitar player, keyboard player, and then the
Speaker 2: drummer was good, but he would speed everything up. And
Speaker 2: I love drums, so I picked up drums and I
Speaker 2: started playing drums and ended up playing drums with a
Speaker 2: lot of records I would produce. And there are even
Speaker 2: some mixes that the drums were so bad. I just
Speaker 2: replayed them, didn't tell them. I don't get in trouble.
Speaker 1: Okay, your father was in the business, you had a
Speaker 1: room of Top forty. But when you started listening to
Speaker 1: the radio, what is it that caught your ears?
Speaker 2: I mean I listened to am cousin Brucie. I started there.
Speaker 2: I mean when I was young. Uh so I was
Speaker 2: always listening to the Top forty hits. I was always,
Speaker 2: you know, I cared about what was you know, what
Speaker 2: was the hit and my dad had the list always,
Speaker 2: so I'd look at the Billboard list he had and
Speaker 2: I always check out those and have forty fives of that.
Speaker 2: Well then, you know, fast forward a few more years.
Speaker 2: My brother gives me, my older brother gives me a
Speaker 2: joint and a led Zeppelin cassette, and I started listening
Speaker 2: to that every night, and then it changed and then
Speaker 2: it was like, okay Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and then it
Speaker 2: was Genesis and the Prague moved in, and then it
Speaker 2: became Genesis.
Speaker 1: So wait, wait till you're a big proger.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean all I listened to was Jenn
Speaker 2: It's like I play the Lamb all the time. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm a proger, totally a proger.
Speaker 1: And what about yes, General Giant and all.
Speaker 2: The other totally general Giant, elp all that yes yours
Speaker 2: is notis grace all the progue. I mean, to this day,
Speaker 2: I'm out anytime I can see Steve Hackett and I've
Speaker 2: seen a hundred Hacket shows, so all the Genesis shows
Speaker 2: that could go to even the the you know, even
Speaker 2: the last round, which is a little disappointing because Phil
Speaker 2: was just like not, I you know, not in the best.
Speaker 2: So but yeah, Steve Hackett the only one keeping it going.
Speaker 2: And then there's also Stephen Wilson. He's great progue guys.
Speaker 1: So yeah, come on, what do you think of Wilson's
Speaker 1: remixes on the classic albums?
Speaker 2: You know, to be honest with you, I have not
Speaker 2: compared them to the originals. And you know, if he's
Speaker 2: able to do it great and the band's like it great,
Speaker 2: I you know, me and my brother Tommy would bust
Speaker 2: his balls when we see him at the show, saying, dude,
Speaker 2: you're not a mixer, send your files to us. We'd
Speaker 2: much prefer this record if we mixed it. Well, I
Speaker 2: like the records. I'd like to mix it myself, you know.
Speaker 1: I guess you know he remixes them, and he's told me,
Speaker 1: you know, because the bands want changes that are you know,
Speaker 1: the people who are listening are the hardcore fans. They
Speaker 1: want him to sound like the originals. So when listening,
Speaker 1: it sounds like he took steel wool and scrub stuff
Speaker 1: off where it's like Giles Martin, what he did with
Speaker 1: the Beatles is a travesty.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I agree that I agree with you
Speaker 2: on that completely. When you remix something that's been heard
Speaker 2: a million times, make sure that all the elements that
Speaker 2: are in there makes make the listener feel like it's
Speaker 2: just a cleaned up version. It's clarity. You bring clarity
Speaker 2: to it, and wow, this is just sounds so clear.
Speaker 2: I mean, for example, Nick Davis remixed the Lamb right,
Speaker 2: and I said, up a list of notes of shitt
Speaker 2: he missed, Like, dude, you miss these things that I
Speaker 2: remember from my youth or not not in the mix?
Speaker 2: Now what happened? Did you not listen to the rough?
Speaker 2: Did you not check what you were doing? Do you
Speaker 2: not know what you're doing? I mean, now, if gild
Speaker 2: goes back and changes history, then call it something else,
Speaker 2: you know, call you know, reducts.
Speaker 3: You give it a new name.
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're going to remix it and
Speaker 2: clean it up, clean it up, make it clear, make
Speaker 2: it separate, but don't don't kill it for the listener.
Speaker 3: It's not fair.
Speaker 1: I'm just worried those will become the standard as time
Speaker 1: goes on. So your first gig is what.
Speaker 3: Oh oh?
Speaker 2: Back to the beginning. The first gig. I walked in
Speaker 2: on when I was doing getting the job. The first
Speaker 2: day of introduction, they're cutting Van McCoy.
Speaker 1: Do the hustle really well, let's go a little bit slower.
Speaker 3: How do you get the gig? Well?
Speaker 2: I mean, my mom had friend ends and she basically said,
Speaker 2: what do I do with this kid? He takes my
Speaker 2: gear downstairs, he's always a tickering around with recording and
Speaker 2: he won't go to school.
Speaker 3: And her friend says, I know a guy. I know
Speaker 3: a guy.
Speaker 2: He's an engineer in the studio. Maybe he needs an assistant.
Speaker 2: Maybe he could be there tea boy. So my mom said, hey,
Speaker 2: I gotta we have an idea this date. This guy
Speaker 2: may want to hire you in a recording studio. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh cool, I want to see a recording studio.
Speaker 3: Let's go. So we went up to H and L.
Speaker 3: Hugo and Luigi's studio, which.
Speaker 2: Had just just got in the twenty four track console
Speaker 2: just got a twenty four track tape machine. Twenty four jack,
Speaker 2: twenty four track just came out and it had an
Speaker 2: MCI console, a pair of ortones and some big reds.
Speaker 2: And I went there and they're tracking due to hustle,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, this is the place for me.
Speaker 1: I gotta ask they're tracking through the hustle, do you
Speaker 1: hear it as a hit?
Speaker 2: I was so enamored with, you know, the hearing a
Speaker 2: band play because I only hear I didn't hear the
Speaker 2: vocals yet. I only heard the track, you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't know what it was. I only heard like the
Speaker 2: basic track, you know, I did not hear and it's
Speaker 2: kind of an instrumental anyway, but I heard it. I
Speaker 2: was so enamored. I didn't even think about that aspect though.
Speaker 1: So where was the studio and who were these two guys?
Speaker 2: Hugo and Luigi are a songwriter's production team that did
Speaker 2: a lot of the Philly sound, the stylistics, the soft homes.
Speaker 2: They wrote the Lions Sleeps Tonight, They wrote a lot
Speaker 2: of a couple of things that actually wrote a song,
Speaker 2: a couple of songs for Elvis.
Speaker 3: I think a couple Italian guys, you know that had
Speaker 3: the Philly sound.
Speaker 2: They had a little company going on and the engineer
Speaker 2: Steve Jerome, he was my mentor, and they were writing
Speaker 2: on Angle with Cliffs on Route nine W a quarter
Speaker 2: mile down the road.
Speaker 3: From Rudy van.
Speaker 1: Gelder studio and what was going on in that studio.
Speaker 3: I never got to go in. He never let anybody
Speaker 3: in there.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're there the first day, they're tracking the hustle.
Speaker 1: What do they have you doing when you start going there?
Speaker 2: Literally in the beginning, Steve was a very tough teacher,
Speaker 2: but he was one hundred percent right, and I thank
Speaker 2: him every single day. He taught me to listen and
Speaker 2: pay attention and shut up, do not speak, do what
Speaker 2: you're told, and watch, watch the ball, watch what we're doing.
Speaker 3: Okay, very simple.
Speaker 2: So I started out by wrapping mike cables and helping
Speaker 2: with set up and cleaning up.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I went through the paces. I mean, he'd show me
Speaker 2: how to wrap a mic cable. I would do it.
Speaker 2: He'd say, no, that's wrong. You throw them all down
Speaker 2: and make me do it again.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: He said, you got to pay attention to what I'm
Speaker 2: telling and showing you, and that went a long way.
Speaker 2: Writing track sheets a track sheet and then sitting there
Speaker 2: and running the remote and punching and record. So I
Speaker 2: used to run the remote. If they're doing vocals, I'd
Speaker 2: I'd watch a hand signal and punch record and watch
Speaker 2: another hand signal to punch out. The hand signals got
Speaker 2: smaller and the gesterres, the gestures got to the point
Speaker 2: what was barely a wink because they knew I was
Speaker 2: watching so and then if I missed, he goes, what
Speaker 2: do you want vacation over there? He's comment through constant
Speaker 2: So No, the embarrassment, the constant ridiculing and embarrassment, it
Speaker 2: makes you have a tough skin. But you know what,
Speaker 2: I got a lot of respect after a while because
Speaker 2: Steve would say, just get over here, Chris. He's the best. No,
Speaker 2: he can't rattle him. No matter what you do. He's
Speaker 2: on it. He pays attention. And I kept my mouth
Speaker 2: shut and he's it's right.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 2: Only speak when you're spoken to, okay, And because you're
Speaker 2: you're part of the machine and you got to make
Speaker 2: it work, and you know, you get respect. And when
Speaker 2: you're told how to do something, do it their way
Speaker 2: until it's your place.
Speaker 3: Don't don't undermine the boss.
Speaker 2: Ever, you're the assistant and I could be an assistant
Speaker 2: tomorrow anytime.
Speaker 1: What kind of records were they cutting? Were you gutting?
Speaker 2: It was all? It was all twenty four track. It
Speaker 2: was all R and B and soul, you know, Philly soul.
Speaker 3: He cut a song a day.
Speaker 2: I mean it was always you know, you'd be tracking
Speaker 2: all the time, and then literally it got taken over
Speaker 2: by sugar Hill Records.
Speaker 1: Before sugar Hill. How do you end up touching the board?
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean I'm sitting I'm sitting to the left
Speaker 2: of Steve. Okay, I'm the assistant. And when he would
Speaker 2: get up, I said, it the board okay, and I'll
Speaker 2: just continue with what he was doing. So if we're
Speaker 2: doing vocals, I'm sitting there on the talkback, I'm riding
Speaker 2: and faders whatever. When we were when he when he
Speaker 2: was mixing, I'd have to pay attention and he'd say, okay,
Speaker 2: now you print the TV track in the instrumental. So
Speaker 2: I'd have to watch what he did and do it,
Speaker 2: and he'd watch me do it and he taught me.
Speaker 3: So he taught me to do it his way and
Speaker 3: it was very smart.
Speaker 1: So when did you have your first session alone behind
Speaker 1: the board.
Speaker 2: Ah, the first weekend I could sneak in. Uh, well,
Speaker 2: I had the keys. Once I had the keys, you know,
Speaker 2: who knows what happened? I mean, as soon as I
Speaker 2: had the keys, it was like the first no storm.
Speaker 2: Me and my band are in there sneaking in the record.
Speaker 2: We would like cut some tracks in our basement, then
Speaker 2: overdub guitars and vocals at the studio because we get
Speaker 2: away with it. It didn't really you know a vocal miight,
Speaker 2: you know, easy to get you know high from there.
Speaker 3: But uh no. My first session was with my mom.
Speaker 2: He let me have a day free to record my
Speaker 2: mom an album with my mom, which was a lot
Speaker 2: of fun.
Speaker 1: Okay. Usually when you're the low man on the totem
Speaker 1: poll at the studio, you're working like ninety hours a week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Mom would drop me off and then
Speaker 2: picked me up after her gig at night, so a
Speaker 2: lot of time as you go up the street for
Speaker 2: Chinese you know whatever, nine ten, eleven o'clock late, and yeah,
Speaker 2: we worked late. I mean it was basically ten to
Speaker 2: ten every day. So if I was lucky, it was less.
Speaker 2: But I loved it. I didn't even look at the clock.
Speaker 2: When you're that age, you didn't look at the clock.
Speaker 2: Who cared I do?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I mean, I like ten to seven, I can't go board,
Speaker 2: you know the nine hours.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how long before sugar Hill takes it off.
Speaker 2: It's a few years, It's like five, six years, and
Speaker 2: then they sell to to sugar Hill, and then it
Speaker 2: becomes a whole different thing. It's a whole different You're
Speaker 2: making different records then, and then yeah, you have two
Speaker 2: studios now, And it was great. It was that experience.
Speaker 2: At that point I knew, you know, I was an engineer.
Speaker 2: I could handle it. And I mean I worked, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean they had sugar Hill, they did Rappers Delight
Speaker 2: and then that became a big hit. So then after
Speaker 2: that we started cutting everything. And one of the big
Speaker 2: things we did there was the Message by Grand Master Flash,
Speaker 2: which I sat with Steven engineered the whole thing and
Speaker 2: printed all a mixes and even ran mixes, and I
Speaker 2: became friends with Doug Wimbish and to this day we're
Speaker 2: all lifelong friends.
Speaker 1: Okay, those are different records. Those are great records. But
Speaker 1: is there any genre of music you will say no,
Speaker 1: I won't mix that.
Speaker 2: I don't really say no, But at this point, the
Speaker 2: rap from that era, okay, those records, I was okay
Speaker 2: because I was part of it, you know, it was
Speaker 2: part of my upbringing right now, like the rap the
Speaker 2: rapper those records. Now, it's like it doesn't really interest
Speaker 2: me because I think I had that early in my career.
Speaker 2: I need I need melody, I need musicality. Don't don't
Speaker 2: get me wrong. There's if it's a hit, it's got
Speaker 2: a great melody or a lyric, it's fine, but it's
Speaker 2: not gonna be what I'm going to go for. You know,
Speaker 2: it's not my wheelhouse. Everything else jazz, rock, country, Western,
Speaker 2: I do country and Western.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. Good song is a good song.
Speaker 2: I've had Slipknot in the morning and Michael Booble at
Speaker 2: night doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how long is it sugar Hill? And what
Speaker 1: do you do next?
Speaker 2: Well, after sugar Hill was only a couple of years.
Speaker 2: I literally got fired for using the studio at night
Speaker 2: without asking. I walked into Joe Robinson's office with the
Speaker 2: invoice and a check from the client, and I said,
Speaker 2: I didn't want to wake you up, because you know
Speaker 2: we had we were finishing latest client wanted to come
Speaker 2: into Look, can I book the room to do vocals
Speaker 2: between three am and six am?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: And I handed them all at and still it was like, well,
Speaker 2: you use my room. You know, you did stuff without asking. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm available twenty four hours that you and you're asked,
Speaker 2: you're out.
Speaker 3: Of here, really okay?
Speaker 2: And and it was probably a blessing because after that
Speaker 2: they weren't doing that great. I ended up going to
Speaker 2: New York and starting as an assistant. I went right
Speaker 2: back to nothing and became an assistant at a unique recording.
Speaker 1: How'd you literally get that job? You'd knock on a
Speaker 1: million doors.
Speaker 2: No, some I had, you know, right after sugar Hill,
Speaker 2: my friends were doing stuff independently, and you know, some
Speaker 2: friends that I had worked with there said had me
Speaker 2: do some stuff with them, and they I don't know
Speaker 2: who recommended it, but one of the sessions was a unique.
Speaker 2: So my first time there is I was working with them.
Speaker 2: I met the owners and they were interested in you know,
Speaker 2: I told them what I did, and they was interested
Speaker 2: in hiring me, so they literally hired me on the spot.
Speaker 2: I was happy, but I literally back to being an assistant.
Speaker 2: I remember working on a session in the b room
Speaker 2: on eight track. They had an eight track in that room,
Speaker 2: or they had an eight track machine. They also had
Speaker 2: a sixteen track. I remember working on that and on
Speaker 2: an older board, and you know you start back at
Speaker 2: the beginning.
Speaker 1: So what were the steps of moving back up the ladder?
Speaker 3: It didn't take that long before am I.
Speaker 2: You know, my popularity increased and I was doing more
Speaker 2: and more, and literally as years went on with all
Speaker 2: the remixes with Arthur Baker and working with all these
Speaker 2: you know, other artists, I started, you know, getting some
Speaker 2: producers that just wanted to use me.
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. Wait, wait, you're the assistant. How
Speaker 1: do you end up becoming a remixer unique?
Speaker 2: Well, okay, you're an assistant. How do you become a
Speaker 2: popular engineer? Well by making rough mixes that they really
Speaker 2: get excited about. So how you got you know, how
Speaker 2: you get a fan base back then? Was Hey, client
Speaker 2: comes in to do a vocal overdub or a guitar
Speaker 2: or something, right, and you're the assistant or you're the
Speaker 2: engineer in a session. Well, you make a kick ass
Speaker 2: rough mix on their cassette form, and then they're like, man,
Speaker 2: this sounds cure.
Speaker 3: I got to use that guy again.
Speaker 2: And then they and then they tell their friend and
Speaker 2: then their friend comes in and you again, you make
Speaker 2: a great rough mix.
Speaker 3: On the cassette and then oh I love this, And
Speaker 3: then the.
Speaker 2: Studio manager and the other engineers working there are all
Speaker 2: pissed off at you because you're making these roughs. He goes, well,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be you know, you shouldn't be making a
Speaker 2: rough like that. Well, I just want to sound like
Speaker 2: a record. So you know, they got well, you're making
Speaker 2: it harder for us. I'm like, well, then you need
Speaker 2: to work harder. I don't know, I only hear what.
Speaker 2: I just want to sell, like a hit record whatever.
Speaker 2: So you know, it wasn't about just do a vocal,
Speaker 2: make a quick mix and give it to him. No,
Speaker 2: do whatever OVERB you're gonna do and make it sound
Speaker 2: good for him, because that's what you do.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's like your job.
Speaker 2: So I really enjoyed that aspect of it, and that's
Speaker 2: what opened up all the doors because then they all want,
Speaker 2: Oh I want Chris.
Speaker 3: Chris. Chris is the guy. Oh I need Chris.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, you know, producers are like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Chris is the guy. Chris is gonna work on this,
Speaker 2: and that that got me to doing more stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how long did you work it unique before you
Speaker 1: went Independent or where'd you go next?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, while I was working Unique that I started
Speaker 2: also working at other studios, Hit Factory with Troy.
Speaker 3: I really liked Hit.
Speaker 2: Factory and and Eddie Jermon owner really wanted me and
Speaker 2: my brothers over there. He'd do anything to get us there,
Speaker 2: so they whatever I wanted. So I would work a
Speaker 2: lot of and a Hit Factory because a lot of
Speaker 2: the clients wanted to up They wanted to upgrade. You know,
Speaker 2: the clients wanted to go to Hit Factory is beautiful
Speaker 2: and uh, all the all the big artists worked at
Speaker 2: the Hit Factory, so I did more there. The powder Station,
Speaker 2: I mean the power station. We called the powder station
Speaker 2: for another reason. I got to really I can't imagine
Speaker 2: what that might be exactly, So I still call it
Speaker 2: the powder station because you know, Skeletor would be my
Speaker 2: uh my duck, my dealer, and he'd always be there
Speaker 2: for in the morning when we ran out of blow.
Speaker 2: So it beat Skeletor, but Hit a Hit Factory, Electric
Speaker 2: Lady was so the only real real rooms that I
Speaker 2: got familiar with was the old Media Sound and then
Speaker 2: Hit Factory and then Lady and of course Unique. After
Speaker 2: a while, i'd you know, after I don't know, late
Speaker 2: eighties or mid eighties, I was already out of Unique
Speaker 2: and just just a hit factory.
Speaker 1: Okay. When you went to Unique, you were on salary yep, okay,
Speaker 1: and you were doing stuff at the Hit Factory and
Speaker 1: the so called powder station on your own free time.
Speaker 2: Right when I started going independent from Unique, I now,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember my first like manager Stu Silfin,
Speaker 2: my first lawyer. He would get me involved in some
Speaker 2: of his connections to get different clients. So if I
Speaker 2: went to the Hit Factory, I could steal any client,
Speaker 2: and people knew I was the ultimate client thief because
Speaker 2: once I go in there, they can't go in there
Speaker 2: because me and Tommy, well I will first. I always
Speaker 2: grabbed the client, and once they work with me, they
Speaker 2: don't work with anybody else. So I was getting a
Speaker 2: little bit of that reputation for doing that. But because I
Speaker 2: had different energy and I was a little bit more experienced,
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 3: Know, I wanted to be in charge.
Speaker 2: I want it to be my way, So people just
Speaker 2: liked my way, like like when you go to I
Speaker 2: don't know, the.
Speaker 3: Subplace and Mike's Mike's way or whatever.
Speaker 2: I just heard it my head a certain way, and
Speaker 2: I make everything go that way and people liked it,
Speaker 2: so that caught me those gigs.
Speaker 1: Was there a specific record that was a breakthrough for you.
Speaker 2: I would think that Living in America that I did
Speaker 2: with Dan was a good door kicker. There was a
Speaker 2: lot of the remixes like let the Music Play and
Speaker 2: some Shannon stuff. There was some of those one offs
Speaker 2: that I did with Carl Sturk and Devin Rodgers. Those
Speaker 2: did well well. Some of the remixes that did with
Speaker 2: Arthur got me visually in there. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: the Living in America that really started to open the door,
Speaker 2: because you know, I'd worked with Dan Hartman, so as
Speaker 2: soon as I met Dan Hartman as a producer, I
Speaker 2: did everything for Dan and he.
Speaker 3: Had a hell of a run.
Speaker 2: And unchained my heart by Joe came out after that,
Speaker 2: and then we did Tina Turn a Foreign Affair and
Speaker 2: you know, and a few other things that we did.
Speaker 2: And then when the Windward thing came in with Russ
Speaker 2: and I was there, I was doing it, and that's
Speaker 2: how Tommy got involved. So I eventually had tom and
Speaker 2: Jeff both there. I both my brothers come to Unique
Speaker 2: to work with me, and the owner really.
Speaker 3: Couldn't do anything about it. I love Bobby and Joey Inn.
Speaker 2: They just went with it because you know what Chris
Speaker 2: is doing great for He's bringing great clients and yeah,
Speaker 2: whatever he wants to do. So I brought my brothers
Speaker 2: in and they fast tracked into working with me, and
Speaker 2: they fast tracked it to.
Speaker 3: The bigger gigs.
Speaker 2: They didn't go through the channels, they didn't go up
Speaker 2: the stairs, they just took the elevator. I went with me,
Speaker 2: so you know, that's how Tommy got the gig. And
Speaker 2: I'd be producing a band and Tommy's there assisting and
Speaker 2: Jeff's they're assisting and we're all screwed around because I
Speaker 2: was a bit of a mad scientist. So like when
Speaker 2: the Lord Algie's are there, well, they're in charge whatever
Speaker 2: they want to do, and they're.
Speaker 3: Having fun and they're enjoying it.
Speaker 2: And it's great fun every day experimenting producing because when
Speaker 2: I was producing, it was just a free throw. I
Speaker 2: had so much fun. And with Windwood it was like
Speaker 2: every day. With Tommy, I'm like, man, because I couldn't
Speaker 2: wait for rusting it off the phone and sit there
Speaker 2: all day I had I had Dan at the other studio.
Speaker 2: I got to work on this other stuff. I didn't
Speaker 2: have the patience to sit around and wait. But Tommy
Speaker 2: learned from me really quick on that, and I pushed it, pushed,
Speaker 2: and I walked away from I didn't I didn't care
Speaker 2: if it was gonna do well or not. I just
Speaker 2: cared that my brother was gonna win, get this gig
Speaker 2: and boom. That's because it was for mom. Mom knew
Speaker 2: I was doing it. I did it for Mom. I
Speaker 2: want to make sure that both of us now are equals.
Speaker 2: Like one record, he went from from nothing to where
Speaker 2: both equals, if not him being bigger because of that record.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a remixer, how do you end up
Speaker 1: producing records?
Speaker 2: Well, I you know I. I was always involved in
Speaker 2: the production side of it, and everyone saw it, so
Speaker 2: I would have found. I found a band, I got
Speaker 2: it signed to Electra, I started producing it. Then Ultra
Speaker 2: gave me a couple more bands to produce. So eighty three,
Speaker 2: eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, I had a bunch
Speaker 2: of records. I produced band called Xavion, an Electra, a band,
Speaker 2: an artist called Alan Vega. He was the half of
Speaker 2: the art band's Suicide. He was the singer. I produced
Speaker 2: a record for him. I could even sing. But I
Speaker 2: came up with great tracks with Rick Acaystik and did
Speaker 2: that broke a band called World of the Glance.
Speaker 3: I got signed to Elektra and we made a record.
Speaker 2: And then I had people in coming and just wanted
Speaker 2: me to produce their stuff with them. And you know,
Speaker 2: they didn't have a lyric and say, hey, cut a
Speaker 2: track to this. Or there was an album called beat
Speaker 2: Street that that Arthur was cutting for, you know, for
Speaker 2: the movie. And I would just come up with these
Speaker 2: songs for b Street with him, you know, and just
Speaker 2: kept going. So I love that side of it. What's
Speaker 2: the key to being a good producer making decisions?
Speaker 3: It's that simple. But no, it's not just that.
Speaker 2: Being a good producer is about ninety percent bedside matter.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So you have to win over the artists and show
Speaker 2: them that you're confident and that you know what they want, okay,
Speaker 2: and you know what deliver it, and making decisions is everything.
Speaker 2: You waffle one second, that's a problem. So whether it's
Speaker 2: a vocal that's good or a drum sound or drum
Speaker 2: fill or guitar lift. Yes, yes, that's good, No, that's
Speaker 2: not good.
Speaker 3: Do it again.
Speaker 2: Being able to make those snap decisions and have a
Speaker 2: big vision, that's what.
Speaker 3: Makes a great producer.
Speaker 2: You could always go back and said, you know what,
Speaker 2: let's do those guitars over today.
Speaker 3: I think what we did yesterday, I think we rushed it.
Speaker 3: Let's go again.
Speaker 2: You got to make a decision, and you got to
Speaker 2: you know, you have to drive run the ship. You
Speaker 2: have to be in control. Some people work really fast.
Speaker 2: Other people work at a glacial past. If I hire you,
Speaker 2: what kind of speed are we working at? At light
Speaker 2: at lightning, it's like back in the future when it
Speaker 2: hits eighty eight miles an hour. You can't work as
Speaker 2: fast as possible because think about this, all right, a song,
Speaker 2: a song can get tiring so fast, okay, it's it
Speaker 2: can spoil so quick. So you got to be in
Speaker 2: the heat of the action. So when you record a song,
Speaker 2: create a song, the quicker you do it, the more
Speaker 2: you keep all that energy in there, the more you
Speaker 2: labor over it, the more it becomes just like digging
Speaker 2: a grave.
Speaker 3: It's just it's a drag and it's it's just human nature.
Speaker 2: The more you hear it, the more you either like
Speaker 2: it the way you have it, you have you lose.
Speaker 3: All all all concept of it.
Speaker 2: So I would I like to work fast and then
Speaker 2: put the song on the side a couple of weeks later,
Speaker 2: put it up to mix it, and then you know,
Speaker 2: clean it up and go. I mean, look, get that impression,
Speaker 2: make that timestamp. But sometimes people will work at a
Speaker 2: glacier pace and the song did not improve from the demo.
Speaker 2: It actually got worse and more boring. I want to
Speaker 2: keep the energy, you know, what makes the song interesting,
Speaker 2: the story.
Speaker 1: And what about recording live? Everybody there or everybody uh separately.
Speaker 2: I mean I think the days, you know, the days
Speaker 2: of cutting live, and I've done a bunch of that
Speaker 2: and I've seen it work. You get if you get
Speaker 2: the A team out there, I mean the A team
Speaker 2: you can cut you live, okay. And but mostly what
Speaker 2: we do is the drummers out in the room okay,
Speaker 2: everybody's in the control room playing and we get the
Speaker 2: bones of what's going to work for the song okay,
Speaker 2: and we just get to we get the drums on it,
Speaker 2: and a lot of time we just take. We'll make
Speaker 2: the drummer, just play a little drum loop okay of
Speaker 2: the pattern, and we'll build the track on that and
Speaker 2: it puts drums on.
Speaker 3: Last. Most of the records I produced that were built
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 2: Drums are the last thing we put on because everything
Speaker 2: was built around good timing okay, almost like a grid,
Speaker 2: so it was easier and records.
Speaker 3: Now. More of the stuff I make now it's done
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 2: And because of the technology we have, we could just
Speaker 2: send files to a bass player here, guitar player there,
Speaker 2: a drummer here. I mean the stuff I news, I
Speaker 2: said the guy you know, it'll be like a drum
Speaker 2: loop I created with a machine and have him planned
Speaker 2: in his house to send me to files whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about your lawyer. To what degree have
Speaker 1: you had a manager or have the gigs just come
Speaker 1: to you as or somebody in between.
Speaker 2: I've I've always had a manager. I mean I had
Speaker 2: a brief run without one. When I first moved to
Speaker 2: LA I got a manager named Steve Moyer and that
Speaker 2: was his first engineer mixer client, and he was the
Speaker 2: first manager of a mixer, an engineer, and we had
Speaker 2: a hell of a run because he knew, you know,
Speaker 2: he worked at labels. He knew these people said hey,
Speaker 2: yeah right, Chris set in the files, give me a shot.
Speaker 2: So look, you're the new kid in town. Everybody wants
Speaker 2: to try you. And that worked out great. And then
Speaker 2: I Leah Fahlberg, and then I went back to Bennett
Speaker 2: Kaufman who worked for Steve, and.
Speaker 3: Now I have Stephen Rosen.
Speaker 2: And it's about just putting me in positions that that
Speaker 2: I don't get into. I mean, most of the clients
Speaker 2: text or call me or email me, you know, the
Speaker 2: repeat customers, they just come to me direct. But but
Speaker 2: you know, with the manager, you get you get clients
Speaker 2: that you would not normally get, situations that are different
Speaker 2: people you don't have a connection with.
Speaker 1: Okay, in the old days, the sixties and seventies, a
Speaker 1: lot of times the engineer cut the record, mixed it.
Speaker 1: So how did that change?
Speaker 2: Bob clear Mountain changed it good. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 2: that until Bob Clearmountain or Michael Brower. I mean, I
Speaker 2: just say, Bob Clearmount Broward would probably disagree with me.
Speaker 2: There was a handful of situations where the mixer didn't
Speaker 2: have his credit on the record. And but For me,
Speaker 2: it was Bob okay, so we just wanted to clear
Speaker 2: the mountain. We wanted a shot, so he became the gunslinger. Yes,
Speaker 2: most of the engineer mixed the record. That was part
Speaker 2: of your job. The mix was the easy part. You'd
Speaker 2: make the record and when the last over deebleon on it,
Speaker 2: you do your twiddling and that was it.
Speaker 3: That was done. That's how I.
Speaker 2: Learned that the engineer mixed it after the last over though,
Speaker 2: and that's it goes to mastering. But then we move
Speaker 2: on to Bob clear mountain, taking a song and mixing it.
Speaker 2: And the great thing about that for me and I
Speaker 2: think for him, is that you get the file, you
Speaker 2: get the tape, you put it up, you get your
Speaker 2: first impression, and you go with it.
Speaker 3: Okay. It's like a first date. Okay.
Speaker 2: All the good stuff you ever want happens on that
Speaker 2: one day, so you only have to care about it.
Speaker 3: You don't have to live with it for months. Okay.
Speaker 2: So if you compare it to a first date, you
Speaker 2: don't have to meet the family, the brothers and sisters,
Speaker 2: the cousins, the Christmases, the thanksgivings. You just it is
Speaker 2: have fun that one day it's over. So your first
Speaker 2: impression on the song is always the best. So you
Speaker 2: have no preconceived notions and you just go with it.
Speaker 2: And I think that is the most successful thing a
Speaker 2: producer can have, is that mixer who only hears it
Speaker 2: the first time when he puts it up, and then
Speaker 2: that's the great partnership between music creation and music finishing.
Speaker 2: Is that first impression mixer that only hears it, and
Speaker 2: his impression usually is what makes the song work.
Speaker 1: Okay, you know you're gonna mix a record. To what
Speaker 1: degree do the producers or the act give you input
Speaker 1: or what degree is Chris, we did it here? It
Speaker 1: is do your magic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there one hundred percent. There's I have clients
Speaker 2: that just Chris, just do your magic. I know what
Speaker 2: you do, I know what you're gonna do, I know
Speaker 2: what to expect.
Speaker 3: Just do it.
Speaker 2: And then there's clients and you have artists that took
Speaker 2: home a copy of the Roff and you listen to
Speaker 2: it two, three, four, five, ten, twenty times. That's the
Speaker 2: kiss of death. Then you have that marriage the artist
Speaker 2: has with the ruff, and you got to beat the ruff.
Speaker 2: You gotta supersize it. Okay, so you're a bit shackled
Speaker 2: to that version. Look, once you heard a whole lot
Speaker 2: of love ten times, do you want to hear it
Speaker 2: any differently? So look, the artist gets the first copy
Speaker 2: of the finished song, listen to it ten times, and
Speaker 2: you go to remix it. Well, if if you change
Speaker 2: it too much, you're like, well can you listen to
Speaker 2: the ruff? And you know the four words I hate
Speaker 2: hearing are let's check the ruff. That means that you
Speaker 2: know there's something that I remember, and that takes the
Speaker 2: fun out of mixing, trust me.
Speaker 3: So the first thing I check is like, are you
Speaker 3: guys married to the rouff? How many times have you
Speaker 3: heard with it?
Speaker 2: Just want to know what kind of hell of getting
Speaker 2: myself in on because it's really no fun just matching
Speaker 2: the ruff and picking up where someone left off, because
Speaker 2: that's not mixing.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. Mixing is when you have
Speaker 3: free reign, do what you want.
Speaker 2: Because a lot of times I make a different arrangement
Speaker 2: or I turn stuff off that I think is excessive.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes they put frecking three pounds of a
Speaker 2: lord in a one pound bag and it sucks, So
Speaker 2: I take half of it out and then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden the song comes back, or I make eight
Speaker 2: arrangements or changes. I have free will, I love free will,
Speaker 2: free willie. You know they're not gonna do something different
Speaker 2: that can show you what I think it should do,
Speaker 2: or edits or shortening it. Some of these songs are
Speaker 2: five and a half minutes long.
Speaker 3: What are you kidding?
Speaker 2: No one's gonna care. They're looking at their watch, their bored.
Speaker 2: Come on, hurry up and get us to the goddamn
Speaker 2: corse before I fall asleep. So I try to bring
Speaker 2: that to it, you know, I try to bring that.
Speaker 2: Say look, here's what I think for your single three
Speaker 2: minutes to fifteen seconds ware bamp, thank you man, want
Speaker 2: to hear it again?
Speaker 1: How often do you finish the mix and the producer
Speaker 1: in the ax say, great, we're running with it, as
Speaker 1: opposed to, oh can we change this? Change that.
Speaker 2: I'd say ninety five percent they're good with it, and
Speaker 2: the other five percent or maybe is it eight percent,
Speaker 2: we'll have changes. I mean, we live in a world. Now,
Speaker 2: I'll do a mix. I'll send that out on MP three.
Speaker 2: You know, I just I said that a specific way
Speaker 2: for a reference in a common format. Okay, and I'll
Speaker 2: wait to hear back. Okay. Sometimes it's days. Sometimes it's
Speaker 2: weeks before they even comment. My good clients, it's it's
Speaker 2: usually within ten minutes, okay. And if the artist here,
Speaker 2: obviously we close it right then and there. That's how
Speaker 2: it works.
Speaker 1: So do you want the artists there or you definitely
Speaker 1: don't want the artists there.
Speaker 2: There's certain situations where their ownership is the only way
Speaker 2: it gets closed. With green Day, they have to be
Speaker 2: here to hear it, and then if there's like a
Speaker 2: two percent change later, that's fine, but they have to
Speaker 2: be here to approve and check it. And I like that,
Speaker 2: and I find that with Dave Matthews. I find that
Speaker 2: with Look with Dwight Yoakum one hundred percent. He's got
Speaker 2: to be here with this little clip, you know, he
Speaker 2: has we have a way of doing things, and you know,
Speaker 2: it's stuff I work with John Shanks.
Speaker 3: You got to be here. I prefer it. Okay.
Speaker 2: It goes quicker that way because they're here, they own it.
Speaker 2: It's over, okay. And if something comes up later, we
Speaker 2: have a recall rally. We just you know, tweak a
Speaker 2: couple of songs. So, but there's a situation where I'd
Speaker 2: prefer to mix the whole album, have the band come
Speaker 2: in for one day, review a couple of songs they
Speaker 2: want to change it, and then knock it out.
Speaker 1: Okay, So how long does it take to do a mix?
Speaker 2: A couple hours? It depends on how messy the song is,
Speaker 2: how well put together it is. First you have to
Speaker 2: untangle it and make it manageable. So yeah, it can
Speaker 2: be a couple of hours. It just depends on how
Speaker 2: much focus I have. Because we live in a world
Speaker 2: where there's so many distractions, you got to shut it
Speaker 2: all off and do the job. So if I come
Speaker 2: in and shut it all off, which is what I
Speaker 2: usually do, I just stay focused until it's done. I
Speaker 2: don't leave the room until I finish it. Then I
Speaker 2: check my phone, then I do that. You know, if
Speaker 2: I have distractions, your phone calls, it's slows the process.
Speaker 1: Then, and how many can you do in a day
Speaker 1: before you just can't do it anymore?
Speaker 2: You know, if I'm mixing an album where there's similarities
Speaker 2: in the recording from song to song two or three,
Speaker 2: sometimes four, I mean a cheap trick record, I've done
Speaker 2: seven in one day. Because you know, there because the
Speaker 2: recording is so similar that it's almost like a live album,
Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of it's very the same,
Speaker 2: So it's just you know, different transitions, so.
Speaker 3: It can happen that way.
Speaker 1: How often do you finish it and the act want
Speaker 1: changes that you don't agree with? Then what do you say?
Speaker 2: I mean that, Like I said in the you know
Speaker 2: five to seven percent range, there's changes. Do I agree
Speaker 2: with them? Well, a lot of times no. Sometimes it's
Speaker 2: just personal taste or it's an arrangement thing. But when
Speaker 2: there are things I don't agree with, then I know, well,
Speaker 2: you know what I If you want that much mayonnaise
Speaker 2: on your French fries, okay, here you go. I try
Speaker 2: to talk them out of it, or I try to,
Speaker 2: you know, make the change where I'm happy with it
Speaker 2: still for me, you know, the mixer knows how he
Speaker 2: can make all these elements works and knows what the
Speaker 2: give and take is. That's why you hire me because
Speaker 2: I have the experience to know how I can make
Speaker 2: all these puzzle pieces coexist.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: And sometimes the minutia from a guitar player or a
Speaker 2: drummer or a bass player or whatever, it's always just
Speaker 2: their personal interest being boosted or something that really doesn't
Speaker 2: help the mix, okay, or maybe something is because they're
Speaker 2: hearing impaired or just something they heard in a rough mix.
Speaker 2: So I'm looking at the big picture, what makes the
Speaker 2: song work?
Speaker 3: Okay? And is this going to help?
Speaker 1: Okay? Let's go back to the producing end. To what
Speaker 1: degree do you tell them to change the song, rearrange
Speaker 1: the song or you're more just getting it down and
Speaker 1: making decisions.
Speaker 2: I mean, we get it down and I take the
Speaker 2: file home and I change the arrangement, I change parts,
Speaker 2: I'll replay things. Okay, with a young artists that up producing,
Speaker 2: I mean I'll take his demo and I'll cut it
Speaker 2: up and change the arrangement and we'll replay all the parts.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean while we're in here working on
Speaker 2: it together, we'll work on the arrangement right away. I mean,
Speaker 2: the most important thing is the arrangement and the key.
Speaker 2: Everything else is just minutia. It doesn't matter. A melody,
Speaker 2: a tempo, and an arrangement. Those are the first three
Speaker 2: building blocks of a song. After that it's all personal
Speaker 2: taste or what you want to do to the song,
Speaker 2: and then that's what works.
Speaker 1: And what about lyrics.
Speaker 2: Lyrics are important and all but lyrics are Lyrics are
Speaker 2: very important, but they're also a personal journey because most
Speaker 2: of the lyrics are about, uh, something can happen in
Speaker 2: your life, Okay. So I try to help them make
Speaker 2: sure that the lyrics make sense and we can understand
Speaker 2: the lyrics. Okay, And sometimes I change to say will
Speaker 2: this be better? Doesn't it mean the same if you
Speaker 2: say this versus that, because what you're saying there is
Speaker 2: a little bit of a tongue tie.
Speaker 3: Is this easier? Does this sing better?
Speaker 2: So I'll change it with them if it sings better,
Speaker 2: if it gets the point across. And then there's the
Speaker 2: problems where if a song has fucking it do you have?
Speaker 2: Can you say something else? No? Just beep it, dude. No,
Speaker 2: if the song's called fuck the world, can you say
Speaker 2: something else? Because that's gonna cause you a problem, no
Speaker 2: matter what about judging it?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Great, fine, whatever you know? That's you know in a mix.
Speaker 2: So I always encourage ours. If you're gonna say fuck
Speaker 2: or you're gonna swear, come on, let's at least have
Speaker 2: an alternate lyric for the Bible belt.
Speaker 1: Okay, how often you put up a mix and you
Speaker 1: hear a hit and you know it when you hear.
Speaker 2: It A lot, a lot, I mean a lot. I
Speaker 2: can tell that these puzzle pieces are working.
Speaker 3: And I call it the fly paper effect.
Speaker 2: Okay, If I can walk out of the room, get
Speaker 2: on the phone, hear the news, hear another song, and
Speaker 2: still remember this one, that's the beginnings of a hit
Speaker 2: for me. If I wake up the next morning after
Speaker 2: hearing a bunch of other things and still remember that song,
Speaker 2: it's a hit. It's like the bottom being song with
Speaker 2: Green Day. But no, no, no, no, no, no no no
Speaker 2: no no no, like no matter what, I can still
Speaker 2: hear that melody botta bing botta bing botta boo's.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 2: It's a stupid part, but it's it's to catch you
Speaker 2: as shit. So if I can remember that, then I
Speaker 2: feel it it stands a chance.
Speaker 1: How'd you get to work with Green Day?
Speaker 2: I mean I was working with Rob way back.
Speaker 3: I was working with Rob Canvalla.
Speaker 2: He had this band called Kars Flowers that was the
Speaker 2: makings of Maroon five, and we started our friendship there
Speaker 2: and we moved through a bunch of different artists and
Speaker 2: then this Nimrod album came along and he wanted me
Speaker 2: to take a whack at it for him, and and
Speaker 2: the rest is history, I mean, and then we worked
Speaker 2: on a bunch together. They took a break from me
Speaker 2: for a record or two, and then they came back
Speaker 2: again recently and it's working for them. And I personally
Speaker 2: think when a band creates a team that worked, stick
Speaker 2: with it, because those other flavors of the week don't
Speaker 2: know where the bodies are buried and don't know how
Speaker 2: to put those puzzle pieces together. Okay, they just they're
Speaker 2: a shinier new hot fudged Sunday.
Speaker 1: So how does it feel when someone says we're going
Speaker 1: to go another way?
Speaker 3: I have no issue.
Speaker 2: I don't take it personally, Okay, I'll say, like, look,
Speaker 2: let's do this. Give me the song that your guys
Speaker 2: gonna do, and at least let me send you in
Speaker 2: a mix that my mix, and you guys can blind
Speaker 2: you know, blind test it. Just do a blind tasting. Whatever,
Speaker 2: pick the winner. That's happened once in a while, and
Speaker 2: as long as it's fair, it's a you know, as
Speaker 2: long as it's fair and everything's the same volume, you
Speaker 2: let the artist pick maybe maybe the new guy's better.
Speaker 3: You know, I have no I have no personal thing
Speaker 3: about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like to win, and I could be a real
Speaker 2: asshole about it, but I don't like to be discounted,
Speaker 2: like at least give me a chance, you know. With
Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel, I kept emailing him and by large, give
Speaker 2: me a chance to mix a song for free. I'll
Speaker 2: even pay you. I just want a mix on the record.
Speaker 2: Is it that hard to let me have a file?
Speaker 2: I just wanted a shot, that's all.
Speaker 3: Don't care. I just like Peter Gabriel.
Speaker 1: What's the state of the remixing business?
Speaker 2: Too? Well, the remixing it's like, what's the state of
Speaker 2: the mixing business?
Speaker 3: Right? Right?
Speaker 2: I mean the mixing business is basically chosen by the
Speaker 2: producer and the artist, Okay, or the label or the manager.
Speaker 2: But I think it's really producer driven and the artists
Speaker 2: they usually pick. Remixing is the problem more in right
Speaker 2: now because of that most But no, the mixing is
Speaker 2: still it's really it's simple a lot of times. Remember,
Speaker 2: you know, the artist has your little team, and that's
Speaker 2: how it goes. Hiring out a gun slinger like me
Speaker 2: and Bob isn't as frequent as it used to be
Speaker 2: because they can all mix in their bathrooms at this point.
Speaker 2: But still there is the knowledge that your fan base
Speaker 2: wants a cla or a clear Mountain or this guy
Speaker 2: or it's you know or Serbon Serbon who mixes like
Speaker 2: all the tale all the big pop stuff because he's good, right,
Speaker 2: so you get your run, So it's loyalty. The remixing
Speaker 2: problem I see is in the atmost stuff, and it's
Speaker 2: getting sorted out. In the beginnings of atmost stereo. You know,
Speaker 2: Apple's Atmost I call Apples atmost. They needed content anyway
Speaker 2: they could get it, so regardless of who did it,
Speaker 2: they made some mistakes. And for me, unless the mix
Speaker 2: is approved by the artists that originally did it, it's.
Speaker 3: Not fair to put it out. To put it up
Speaker 3: on the site.
Speaker 2: So whether it's Rebel Yell, whether it's unless the whole
Speaker 2: band is dead and there's nobody around going to improve it,
Speaker 2: well whatever, but make sure the artist gets at least
Speaker 2: to hear it and say, yeah, that's good, I like it.
Speaker 3: I'll sign off on that.
Speaker 2: It's respect that something they created that you manipulate for
Speaker 2: a new format, that they get to prove it.
Speaker 3: That's simple, and that wasn't happening.
Speaker 1: Okay. You know, the business has evolved like everything else.
Speaker 1: And for the last twenty years, labels we're talking about
Speaker 1: a major label will invest in a single song, they'll
Speaker 1: get additional songwriters, et cetera, and they'll pay a producer
Speaker 1: an unbelievable premium and a remixer an unbelievable premium. Is
Speaker 1: that's something that's in the world that you're in because
Speaker 1: in a lot of other worlds, uh, mastering, the prices
Speaker 1: have dropped to the floor. Okay, another thing, So what's
Speaker 1: the status? What's what's going on in your world?
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't you know the pop world where
Speaker 2: they're you know, they're going through that. I'm not that
Speaker 2: much involved because I get the song when it's done. Okay,
Speaker 2: when it's all done and they want they want somebody
Speaker 2: else to mix it, I do it, okay. So that
Speaker 2: world mastering, they usually want my choice.
Speaker 3: Okay. If and if they.
Speaker 2: Don't like what he did, well I'll have him try
Speaker 2: to make him better. Okay, the stuff they'll you know,
Speaker 2: the uh, that's where my business is. So it's pretty
Speaker 2: much straight fan base. People send you stuff to work on,
Speaker 2: and they also manage and produce some man so I
Speaker 2: like both sides of the coin. I like to produce
Speaker 2: for a while and then come in knock out some
Speaker 2: mixes because it keeps the variety flowing.
Speaker 1: So is compensation stayed steady, going down or going up?
Speaker 2: The mixing compensation is pretty steady, pretty much steady. The
Speaker 2: producing compensation it varies because a lot of times you're
Speaker 2: doing a lot of pro bono work. So look, you
Speaker 2: find a new artist, you're doing it all for free
Speaker 2: and hope you strike gold and hopefully you'll get him
Speaker 2: out of the road making some money, and or you'll
Speaker 2: have a band where you're literally just take a piece
Speaker 2: of the road. I mean, there is no money for
Speaker 2: records as far as I'm concerned, Like I would much
Speaker 2: prefer to just have a piece of the merch because
Speaker 2: that's real money.
Speaker 3: That's that's going to happen.
Speaker 2: If the band plays one hundred shows a year and
Speaker 2: they sell x amount of merch, it's a guarantee that
Speaker 2: your producer's fee is the merch. So selling records doesn't
Speaker 2: really make money. I mean it's just a piece of merch.
Speaker 2: So you know, streaming doesn't make money. Songwriter royalties that
Speaker 2: makes money. I mean, it's it's improving, but it's a
Speaker 2: whole different planet.
Speaker 1: So over your career as a mixer, have you gotten
Speaker 1: royalty points, flat fees? What's the status in the past?
Speaker 2: And then today, at a certain point in my career,
Speaker 2: everyone start paying a point. So I earned the point
Speaker 2: on every mix, and while CDs were still selling twenty
Speaker 2: thirty million dollars, that's real money. Okay, those royalties added
Speaker 2: up because you're getting a royalty based on the sale
Speaker 2: of a CD, a hard piece of record. Now they've
Speaker 2: actually because they're making a vinyl, you're getting a royalty
Speaker 2: on that. The royalty on sound exchange and streaming, well,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's not like it used to be.
Speaker 2: So back in Atlantis Morris set when she had Jag
Speaker 2: a Little Pill, the CDs are selling thirty million, forty million,
Speaker 2: twenty million.
Speaker 3: That's the heyday, right.
Speaker 2: So if you had royalties back then and it stayed
Speaker 2: at that and stayed and kept going at that rate,
Speaker 2: it would have been a whole different landscape financially. But
Speaker 2: once Napster came in and they were in denial about
Speaker 2: you can copy CDs, it was over and then it
Speaker 2: all changed. So now it's like, Okay, a lot of
Speaker 2: times it's better just do the buyout then get a percentage,
Speaker 2: but we basically get a percentage a point on everything.
Speaker 1: And how busy are you?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's six seven days a week, as busy.
Speaker 2: It's as busy as I want to be. I'm as
Speaker 2: busy as I want to be. And I do enjoy.
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm going between producing and mixing, so
Speaker 2: I like not just being the mix just pounding the
Speaker 2: mixes out. And the utmost work is very booming right
Speaker 2: now because maybe my approach.
Speaker 1: How much outmost work? Are you doing.
Speaker 3: A ton every record?
Speaker 2: And we're going back and right now I'm picking records
Speaker 2: I want to do that haven't been done yet, and
Speaker 2: I'm preferring to go back to stuff seventies early eighties
Speaker 2: when it was two twenty four tracks or one to
Speaker 2: twenty four track, you know, the first you know, first
Speaker 2: albums by artists that those albums that may be artists okay,
Speaker 2: that are only twenty four track okay, And that's what
Speaker 2: I want. I don't want to be untangling like mid
Speaker 2: tow you know, two thousand or the ninety nine two
Speaker 2: thousand where pro tools and sessions and figuring out where
Speaker 2: the files. I don't want to go through that.
Speaker 1: Okay, we were talking that you believe the original engineer
Speaker 1: should do the utmost mix.
Speaker 3: If possible, or be involved.
Speaker 2: I mean, I really believe that the only way to
Speaker 2: save the past for the future, or to reconnect with
Speaker 2: it is to get the original people involved. To first
Speaker 2: make sure that the assets of these earlier records are intact.
Speaker 2: You have that to begin with, and if they could
Speaker 2: have some involvement and come in and shed some light on,
Speaker 2: you know, their impressions of what you're doing.
Speaker 3: That to me, it's important. You know.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be just a money grab. Ooh I could
Speaker 2: get I could do all these outmost mixes and make money. No,
Speaker 2: that's not the concept here. Our job is to serve
Speaker 2: the artists and serve the music. If you do anything else,
Speaker 2: you're serving yourself and guys that are doing the money grab,
Speaker 2: that's just serving your wallet. Do the right thing for
Speaker 2: these records. Come on, I don't care if it's more work,
Speaker 2: Just do the right thing.
Speaker 1: Okay. On a remix as opposed to a new record,
Speaker 1: is there enough money to do it your way.
Speaker 2: Not really, We're trying to eke out a eke out
Speaker 2: a way where you know, because look, to make an
Speaker 2: at most mix, you have to recreate the stereo mix first,
Speaker 2: because the sonic palette has to be built in. Okay, yes,
Speaker 2: you can take an original recording, throw it in your
Speaker 2: at most computer, use your plugins, and go that way.
Speaker 2: But my attitude is like, look, I want to remix
Speaker 2: it in stereo. Get all that magic that they had
Speaker 2: to create. Okay, match the stereo mix and then break
Speaker 2: that out into the pieces you need for at moosts.
Speaker 2: This way, I know that when I just put output
Speaker 2: those things, it's going to be that record. Now, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Okay, you have the stereo mix now, needless to say
Speaker 1: that's the way it was originally mixed. Or two speakers.
Speaker 1: Stereo philosophies have changed. You know, used to be certain
Speaker 1: things in different speakers. Now everything merge drums in both speakers,
Speaker 1: et cetera. You got a stereo mix, what do you
Speaker 1: do to create an app most mix?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: Once, but I'm saying once you match.
Speaker 2: Say let's let's, for example, take listen to the music
Speaker 2: the first Doobie Brothers record.
Speaker 3: Okay, So the first thing I want to do is
Speaker 3: I want to match. I want to match the mix.
Speaker 2: So I want to have their mix on one button
Speaker 2: and then my console on another so I can compare. Okay,
Speaker 2: what's making make it all? I want to make the
Speaker 2: picture match right as close as possible to what they did.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Once I have that all automated and perfect, I print that, okay,
Speaker 2: and then I can do a full capture of every
Speaker 2: individual part and then put that in another computer and
Speaker 2: all the sonic qualities and all the balances are intact.
Speaker 2: You got to match the stereo first. You can't do
Speaker 2: that on an atmost rig. You got to do it
Speaker 2: in stereo. So there's many ways. That's just the way
Speaker 2: I do it. I want to match the stereo first
Speaker 2: because I know once I match that, the autmost will match.
Speaker 1: Okay, you say you match the stereo, and then you
Speaker 1: go back to the multi track and then break it
Speaker 1: out because it's already EQ et cetera compressed the way
Speaker 1: you like it.
Speaker 2: Well, you're yeah, you're you're you're playing the multi track
Speaker 2: through your console and it's automated obviously, right, and you
Speaker 2: can and once the mixes match then you're playing that
Speaker 2: automation and then you're gonna you're gonna literally capture every fader,
Speaker 2: all forty four faders and all the rever of it effects.
Speaker 2: You're all gonna get captured to like sixty four tracks.
Speaker 2: Then you're gonna take that new multi track, put it
Speaker 2: in atmost and literally if you just output it spatially,
Speaker 2: that balance should be very close to the record.
Speaker 3: And then you go from there.
Speaker 2: But you've you've an act taken the piece of art
Speaker 2: and putting all the colors in the right places, okay,
Speaker 2: and then then you can go three dimensional with it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what's the philosophy on where to put what sounds?
Speaker 3: That's where it's the wild wild West for me.
Speaker 2: I want you know, for me, we want to sit
Speaker 2: in the in the sound field and just move things
Speaker 2: around so it stays cohesive, but you you're able to
Speaker 2: get some more definition and give give parts some more placement.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's great with a live thing because you
Speaker 2: can make it sound like you're sitting in the room, okay,
Speaker 2: and you can move things around, so it just gives
Speaker 2: it a more three dimensionality. And that's really the concept
Speaker 2: is like you want to have a new experience with
Speaker 2: an old friend. I think atmos is literally a new
Speaker 2: experience with an old friend that you know very well,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden things about your old friend. Wow,
Speaker 2: I didn't know that about you. I did not know
Speaker 2: that you did that. You know, I did not know
Speaker 2: that you come from the moon. And but you hear
Speaker 2: you hear th in the song that that you didn't
Speaker 2: hear before, or you hear clarity and like, wow, I
Speaker 2: didn't know those backgrounds did that. That's cool? Or I
Speaker 2: didn't know that guitar did that. It was like all
Speaker 2: met you know, it was all speared together. So it
Speaker 2: gives you a different experience, and you can just surround
Speaker 2: yourself with the song in like a sphere, like a
Speaker 2: you know, like a sphere, a round sphere, rather than
Speaker 2: just have these two points of light. And don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, almost can be really distracting if if you
Speaker 2: do it, and if you do certain things, but you're
Speaker 2: trying to make it where you're not like like swinging
Speaker 2: your head goes, oh what's that? Where'd that go? What's
Speaker 2: that about? No, you want to just make it like
Speaker 2: your experiences. Wow, this is the greatest stereo ever and
Speaker 2: I think that should be what it is.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's a reference track you use that you did
Speaker 1: mix and one that you did mix that people can
Speaker 1: check out at most?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Well, I obviously the the El John's Soon. Uh Rocketman
Speaker 2: is a great atmospherex because look rocket Man, even the title,
Speaker 2: even the lyric, the landscape alone makes you feel about it.
Speaker 3: Look as far as mine. Just look at.
Speaker 2: Current Green Day or Nimrod or or My Jovi or
Speaker 2: any of the any of the ones that we've put
Speaker 2: up there.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And these current artists will show you what I've been doing, okay,
Speaker 2: and the excitement we've done. I mean, I have a
Speaker 2: really cool Steve Hackett when it's not up there yet.
Speaker 2: But the law of a live show I kind of
Speaker 2: like the live version of aut most stuff because you
Speaker 2: can really feel like you're sitting in a venue.
Speaker 1: So why did you move to California?
Speaker 2: Uh? You know this this guy, Tommy Mattola, he lives
Speaker 2: on the road, and uh, I was working for him.
Speaker 2: He said, I got this girl, I got this artist
Speaker 2: I'd like you to work with.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, because.
Speaker 2: I was doing a couple of things for Carle and
Speaker 2: Hall of Oates and Holly Knight, and she had a
Speaker 2: band called Device, but this is now her first solo
Speaker 2: album and she had some success.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The Best was a big single for her, and I did.
Speaker 2: I did that record as a mixer an engineer with
Speaker 2: Dan and said, you'll be good for it.
Speaker 3: She needs someone like you to help her make this record.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2: So we're working at the Hit Factory and she wanted
Speaker 2: to finish the record, do all the vocals and final
Speaker 2: overdubs because it was cheaper, and she had a little
Speaker 2: studio in her house. So I said, chure, I'll come
Speaker 2: out there and we'll work on at your house. And
Speaker 2: I worked on it there with her. We became very
Speaker 2: close friends and finished the record and I just stayed.
Speaker 2: What's not to like. I'm a rag talk man. I
Speaker 2: can out a convertible and have good weather. And I
Speaker 2: just never went I you know, I didn't go back.
Speaker 2: I mean, I go back and visit Mom and my family,
Speaker 2: but once I was there, I just stayed at eighty eight.
Speaker 1: And what's the difference between the East Coast and the
Speaker 1: West Coast for you?
Speaker 2: The pizza, the bangels to hot dogs, I hear you, right,
Speaker 2: the attitude it's you know, hey, you know what out here?
Speaker 2: Well it our weather has been kind of it's a
Speaker 2: different year now, But it used to be in New
Speaker 2: York every weekend from like April to September would rain
Speaker 2: every weekend.
Speaker 3: Was ship here.
Speaker 2: Every day is perfect, so I could have the top
Speaker 2: down like the whole year and if it rained, it
Speaker 2: was a novelty. This year opposite, but uh no, just
Speaker 2: different lifestyle. Plus it was booming out here. It was
Speaker 2: it was more suburbia. It wasn't the city. It wasn't
Speaker 2: driving trying to park in Manhattan and you know, and
Speaker 2: helping around the city. It was like everything's residential, spread out.
Speaker 2: Everyone's got a car. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: studios at a lot of different clients, a lot of
Speaker 2: different action. It was just different fun.
Speaker 1: And what's the difference in the people.
Speaker 2: I mean the East Coast and the orcer. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like a jerky boy. Everyone's got a you know comment.
Speaker 2: You know, everybody's you know, they got an apigion. You know,
Speaker 2: you come here, it's a little bit more easy going,
Speaker 2: a little more easy going, and uh back in New York,
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, everyone's Brett Weir or Frank Rizzo.
Speaker 3: You know this accent, there's an attitude, there's an edge.
Speaker 3: You know. I love it, like Troy Germano my good buddy.
Speaker 2: So I love going back there and refreshing my my, my, my,
Speaker 2: this my vibe or my accent, so it doesn't vanish.
Speaker 1: So you know, this is a business with a lot
Speaker 1: of hours. Has your personal life suffered.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my whole career, it has totally.
Speaker 2: To this day, it suffers because I don't know, I
Speaker 2: have a hunger for this stuff really hard.
Speaker 3: I lust after it.
Speaker 2: I mean I wake up sometimes six in the morning
Speaker 2: I'm editing songs, so I can never seems like I
Speaker 2: can never get enough of the music. And I really
Speaker 2: have to force myself to, like, Okay, go working in
Speaker 2: the backyard, go work on the property, Okay, put all
Speaker 2: that effort into the into stuff other things. So my
Speaker 2: favorite sport is bike riding with the e bike and
Speaker 2: the mounts of Switzerland. I mean that's all I like
Speaker 2: to do. So I try to have a social life,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's if you're hanging out with me, you
Speaker 2: better be into music because that's going to be first
Speaker 2: and foremost most of the time. But uh, yeah, it
Speaker 2: is it is in eat your life. And I think
Speaker 2: the only way to be successful is to have that lust,
Speaker 2: that that lust for it and uh it's new every
Speaker 2: day and have that energy. A lot of people that
Speaker 2: work in the music business they seem retired from it emotionally,
Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, you're not excited about this anymore,
Speaker 2: or I am like it's like, you know, like a
Speaker 2: brand new toy. So I still enjoy it. So it's
Speaker 2: not it's I'd never take it for granted, not one
Speaker 2: single minute.
Speaker 1: And to what degree is this life affected your love relationships? Uh?
Speaker 2: Usual eurek'savocate on just about every single one of them.
Speaker 2: But like with anything, you you you put the same
Speaker 2: energy you put into music into your love life or
Speaker 2: to your life whatever, and then eventually you'll take that
Speaker 2: for granted and the music will take over again. And
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's it's it's hard. I mean, look,
Speaker 2: you know where your priorities are and you'll put them there. So, uh,
Speaker 2: I have a great situation and I'm happy, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm happy with that. So I like to keep my
Speaker 2: my personal life private and my family private. But uh,
Speaker 2: my music, you know, is is that disease I've caught
Speaker 2: from my mother.
Speaker 1: Okay, producers, what's a good producer? I mean, you're mixing
Speaker 1: and they're coming in before. What makes a good producer
Speaker 1: on the outside? Who are a couple of ones you
Speaker 1: like to work with?
Speaker 2: I mean, let's go back to at the beginning, uh,
Speaker 2: back to you know. The one that I thought was
Speaker 2: probably the best I worked with was Dan Hartman. It
Speaker 2: was amazing what I learned from him and how he
Speaker 2: would just do all the things I said about taking
Speaker 2: control of a situation. And I think a great producer
Speaker 2: is one that also can play. I mean someone like
Speaker 2: Rob Cavallo who he knows how to he knows how
Speaker 2: to play. That helps him navigate the band and that's
Speaker 2: a lot of it. And John Shanks the same way.
Speaker 2: He's a great player, so he gets respect from the
Speaker 2: artist because he really loves working on the record.
Speaker 3: He loves the music.
Speaker 2: And then there's a friend of mine I've been mixing
Speaker 2: for hundreds and hundreds of years, Julian Raymond, who works
Speaker 2: with Scott Borchetta. A great producer. He knows exactly what
Speaker 2: to do, and he's loyal. He knows that he literally
Speaker 2: makes records that are made for me to mix because
Speaker 2: he knows that that team effort really works well. And
Speaker 2: I've seen I've seen many of the new I mean,
Speaker 2: Max Martin is an amazing producer because all he cares
Speaker 2: about is a song and then he crafts the sonics
Speaker 2: to match what's in his head. And but Lang the
Speaker 2: same way. It's like he hears the final record done
Speaker 2: in his head and the struggle is getting it there.
Speaker 2: And that's Mut's thing. He already hears it done and
Speaker 2: he puts the song together before Like I mean, you
Speaker 2: compare Back in Black. It's not even that complicated, but
Speaker 2: the build is right, you know. Hysteria is where he
Speaker 2: took it as far as it could go for that era.
Speaker 3: It made something. It still sounds better than most records
Speaker 3: today sonically.
Speaker 1: Okay, But Mutt, I'm with you there, Mutt really doesn't
Speaker 1: work anymore so in your particular case, where you've been
Speaker 1: doing it for forty years, closer to fifty years, you
Speaker 1: say you're still hungry. You must have had moments where
Speaker 1: you said, man, I'm burned out or it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: as much to me, or something like that.
Speaker 2: Uh, I do, And that's where I'm selective about what
Speaker 2: I work on. If I see if I see one
Speaker 2: of those one of those gigs, I know is not
Speaker 2: going to interest me. If it's not gonna light my fire,
Speaker 2: I'm out of here, you know. So if if it's
Speaker 2: something that I feel is going to be work and
Speaker 2: not fun, I don't do it. I don't care who
Speaker 2: it is. Uh So I'll turn away. And I like
Speaker 2: to take taking on the bigger challenges. I like to
Speaker 2: do the live broadcast too, because that's what I call
Speaker 2: a real ball wiggler. That means that separates the men
Speaker 2: from the boys. When you're doing an artist at Coachella
Speaker 2: or at an award show or Grammys or whatever you know,
Speaker 2: CMA's or something where it's a lot of stress, that's
Speaker 2: separates the men from the boys. Eric Shilling, that guy
Speaker 2: is like the iceman. He is cool as a cucumber,
Speaker 2: never even raises his voice. Me. I'm a freaking big mouth,
Speaker 2: so I'm always yelling. But that guy doesn't get rattled.
Speaker 2: And that that's a serious pro doing all those broadcasts.
Speaker 3: But you know, I want to get burned.
Speaker 2: I gonna Switzerland for a month and ride a bikes
Speaker 2: in the mountains, and I don't listen to music. I
Speaker 2: hear cows, and I hear yoldling and alpine horns, and
Speaker 2: that makes me happy.
Speaker 1: Well, will you go alone or with your wife?
Speaker 2: Or h I start alone? I liked, I need, I
Speaker 2: need a week, or I just get up every morning.
Speaker 2: I could take my bike going to train, go on
Speaker 2: the trail, get out there by myself.
Speaker 1: Where is this in Switzerland?
Speaker 3: Uh, Lucern or Interlockin? You know, I have a lot
Speaker 3: of friends there.
Speaker 2: And just to rejuvenate, you know, I think you got
Speaker 2: to get out in nature and just be alone and
Speaker 2: uh just you know, be alone with your thoughts and
Speaker 2: be alowd nature. Just take all that white noise. We're
Speaker 2: so surrounded with white noise from the phones. Well you
Speaker 2: have none of that. It's great. The only thing on
Speaker 2: the phone is the Strava that tells you where you
Speaker 2: know that or a map.
Speaker 3: I just use it for that.
Speaker 2: But now it's a nice break from it all, and
Speaker 2: then it's all new again when you start back up.
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned earlier. Listen to the music, the first
Speaker 1: Doobie Brothers hit. You mentioned Jagged Little Pill, you mentioned
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin, the cassette and uh back in Black. These
Speaker 1: are all iconic records, not only the iconic, they're great records.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the music today compared to
Speaker 1: those eras well?
Speaker 2: I think right now what's being made? I mean my
Speaker 2: concern now is is it going to stand a test
Speaker 2: of time? Is in twenty years a new record gonna
Speaker 2: you know, still feels like something you're gonna want to hear.
Speaker 2: Is it gonna pass through the generations? One of my concerns,
Speaker 2: and I think one of the concerns I have with
Speaker 2: new music versus old is something that I feel that
Speaker 2: I'm partially responsible for is compression. Like some of these
Speaker 2: pop records are this disposable music is so compressed, so limited,
Speaker 2: it's it's unlistenable in a in a you know, in
Speaker 2: a teenage way. You know, it's unlistenable on standard listening,
Speaker 2: like on a high thigh on a stereo, to sit
Speaker 2: back with a with a glass of wine and listen
Speaker 2: to a record.
Speaker 3: It's all made for disposable.
Speaker 2: So I think some of these creations are overly spanked,
Speaker 2: overly compressed, and uh, only made to last this very
Speaker 2: short journey. We're not seeing these you know, Rolling Stones
Speaker 2: albums or these great records. Maybe they'll come back, maybe
Speaker 2: they'll be a little bit more open as I'm hoping.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know we've you know, we've created a
Speaker 2: different sound, a more forward, more upfront, less dynamic sound
Speaker 2: in songs, which is fine, but uh, I really think
Speaker 2: it's about the songs and it's about the artist, and
Speaker 2: I think what happened in the past is the limitations
Speaker 2: of technology created music that stands at test of time,
Speaker 2: where all the having all the tools creates a laziness
Speaker 2: that makes more disposable music.
Speaker 1: Do you affect your sound to be current with what's happening?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: The funny thing is that I always hear things the
Speaker 2: same way since I started. I always hear it the
Speaker 2: same way in my head, and as it a ranger
Speaker 2: or a player, I hear certain things in my head.
Speaker 2: I never think about, well, let's put this on this
Speaker 2: because current. I never think about it that way. I
Speaker 2: never think about, let me listen to some sounds for
Speaker 2: current record and use those sounds. I'm like, I never
Speaker 2: think of it that way. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: I'm not influenced by that. I listened to like the
Speaker 2: Lamb or Steve Steve Hackett or I've listened it to
Speaker 2: Steven Wilson on my spare time or news radio. I'm
Speaker 2: not listening to the ringio going oh, yeah, that that's
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Maybe I should do that. Never, I just
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just do what I think and
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 1: How much do you keep up on new music?
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, yeah, I mean I will keep up.
Speaker 2: I'll look at I'll look and check out some new
Speaker 2: artists and people I like and see what they done.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'll do the.
Speaker 2: Radio scrolling, you know, my truck and I'll just be
Speaker 2: scrolling through all those channels, like, okay, so here's the
Speaker 2: country station, here's the rot Oh there's that. Oh that's cool.
Speaker 2: Who's that? Oh that's not bad? What's that lyric? Okay, good,
Speaker 2: I'll listen to it. But yeah, I just stay current
Speaker 2: as far as hearing new things, but as far as
Speaker 2: what I'm going to listen to. Whatever, relaxing I'll put
Speaker 2: in the Lamb two albums or Quadraphedia. I mean, Quadraphedia
Speaker 2: is a win every time.
Speaker 1: Quadraphenie the original album with a great cover with Vinyl.
Speaker 1: It was remixed. John Eden Twistle was involved for the
Speaker 1: movie and The mix is better, I feel than the original. Listen.
Speaker 1: There's so many versions since then, but I remember buying it.
Speaker 1: The lyrics it was less cloudy, it was more defined.
Speaker 1: But anybody you haven't worked with you want to work with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted it.
Speaker 2: Borkwori McCartney ever got to do that. I wanted to
Speaker 2: mix a Stones record. I mean, I've worked with Mick,
Speaker 2: but like this deal with that Andrew Watson. I just
Speaker 2: wanted to mix a Stones record. I just wanted to
Speaker 2: have that. You know, I wanted to mix a real
Speaker 2: Who record, but I think that ship is sailed right
Speaker 2: my heroes.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to work with some of my heros.
Speaker 2: Of course, I wanted to work on some Zeppelin' ac DC,
Speaker 2: you know, all those Titans. I wanted to have at
Speaker 2: least a chip in that game. And I mean I
Speaker 2: got to work with the Elton I did the Dodger
Speaker 2: Sati of Live thing, which is great because my friend's
Speaker 2: in the band. So I got to work with, you know,
Speaker 2: artists I seriously respect, and there's more to come, like Peter.
Speaker 2: I loved working with Peter and Dwight. I mean that
Speaker 2: guy's not easy. But you know, if you can make
Speaker 2: him happy. It's important. He's an amazing musician, an amazing player,
Speaker 2: and he's I've learned a lot.
Speaker 3: About music from him.
Speaker 2: He's a very smart guy and very passionate about his
Speaker 2: music and how it sounds. And I've been in charge
Speaker 2: of that for a while now. And I would hate
Speaker 2: to be his guitar rodeo on stage because he is particular.
Speaker 3: But he's right.
Speaker 1: You know, how'd you get the gig with Elton?
Speaker 2: Kim Bullard's keyboard player, A close friend of mine lives
Speaker 2: up the street. We've been friends for thirty years and
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to work on some outh stuff.
Speaker 3: He goes, well, here's your chance.
Speaker 2: So so you know, the offer came in and it's like,
Speaker 2: just match the fee they wanted to pay, Bob, and
Speaker 2: you're in, okay, and do it the short amount of time. Fine.
Speaker 2: And when they all went to Emmy and you don't, well,
Speaker 2: just suck it up. So maybe I'll get to Emmy,
Speaker 2: maybe I won't.
Speaker 3: Who knows? Did mix it?
Speaker 1: Okay? And you have these classes? What's the story with that?
Speaker 3: I like giving back?
Speaker 2: So Mix with the Masters is a platform that we
Speaker 2: teach kids about mixing, about producing you can do it
Speaker 2: over a course of a week. We could do it
Speaker 2: with online videos. You can do it at four day.
Speaker 2: I'm literally leaving tomorrow to do a master class that's
Speaker 2: Sweetwater for two days to teach. You know, kids that
Speaker 2: are hungry about learning. What would Chris do? It's really
Speaker 2: what how does Chris do this? So I show them
Speaker 2: exactly what I do? Am I worried about? Well, if
Speaker 2: I show everyone what I do, then no one's gonna
Speaker 2: want me. Well, no one's going to get my head
Speaker 2: and copy that. So I like sharing and showing kids,
Speaker 2: look kids, showing anybody who wants to do this, Well,
Speaker 2: here's here's my experience, and here's what I've done, and
Speaker 2: here's what might help you. And a lot of it's
Speaker 2: just how you run your business and and how you
Speaker 2: work with audio and how you deal with it. Just
Speaker 2: try to help them in a career that doesn't make money.
Speaker 3: It's all. It's all about time.
Speaker 2: So if you can, if you can, you know, if
Speaker 2: you can be good at what you do and do
Speaker 2: it efficiently, you can enjoy it, you know, so I
Speaker 2: enjoyed the teacher.
Speaker 1: Give me two things that you would immediately tell your students.
Speaker 2: Is to take it seriously or get another job that
Speaker 2: look at it as a career and a life time thing,
Speaker 2: not as a hobby.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's the first thing. Okay.
Speaker 2: The second thing is take control of it, Okay, and
Speaker 2: then you'll have it. You'll have a chance. And it's
Speaker 2: not a guarantee that what you hear they're gonna like,
Speaker 2: but give it a shot, because that's the whole thing
Speaker 2: with anything in the music, Like what you hear in
Speaker 2: your head maybe way wrong, and no matter what you do,
Speaker 2: they're not gonna like it. So you may end up
Speaker 2: being just an engineer for hire to record stuff. But
Speaker 2: your opinion is really the lucky thing that people if
Speaker 2: you have the right ears to hear it a certain
Speaker 2: way that you think that they'll like, and they like it.
Speaker 3: That's the win.
Speaker 2: It's not about eke here, it's not about compression they're
Speaker 2: about It's nothing to do with the tools.
Speaker 3: Nope, it's a state of mind. That's the win.
Speaker 1: Well, this has been a win, Chris. I want to
Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking the time with my audience.
Speaker 1: You're a fountain of information. There are many other layers.
Speaker 1: I know you're busy, so thanks a lot for doing this.
Speaker 3: You are quite welcome, Bob.
Speaker 2: I love to see you at the next amazing event
Speaker 2: there because you're a music lover and you're seem to
Speaker 2: be at all the right ones.
Speaker 1: That's where I run into you at the Greek Theater
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. In any event, this has been Bob Left
Speaker 1: sets with Chris Lord Algae. I just want to take
Speaker 1: a moment to give credit to Margaret Middleman, who for
Speaker 1: the last couple of years has been the coordinator on
Speaker 1: this show, the grease who makes this work. She is
Speaker 1: moving on, so kudos to Margaret. In any event, Chris,
Speaker 1: thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob Left
Speaker 1: stets