WEBVTT - Chris Lord- Alge 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:13.320 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnuts Podcast. My 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:19.680 guest today is engineer, mixer producer Chris Lord Algae. I 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.640 gotta ask, Chris, I remember first seeing your brother's name 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.880 on the back of Stevie Winwood's Back in the High Life. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:33.839 I say, tom Lord Algae. He's an English cat, So explain, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.360 you're a guy from New Jersey. Give us a backstory 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:37.520 on the hyphenated name. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.440 Well, that's a pretty good story. My mom who got 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.480 me started in this business when I was very young. 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.680 Her stage name was Vivian Lord. So once she got 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.960 me the job, and once I started getting some credits, 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.880 I changed my name to Lord Algae as a tip. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.000 Had the hat to her because she got me started. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.080 So I used her stage name and my last name, 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.160 and it was actually her sister's real last name was 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.880 Gloria Lord, so I combined the two and then Tommy 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.559 and Jeff Mark and Lisa we all took over. And yeah, 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.200 Back in the High Life was Tommy's fast track introduction 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.440 to moving from assistant to engineer on my watch because 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.520 at that point I was doing so many things at 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.280 once that I needed someone to help, and you know 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:27.319 it worked out great. 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.800 I pushed him into the hot seat. He did well. 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.720 When the client came in, I snuck out because he 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.640 would be like, Chris, can you come and show me 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.959 this thing? I'm like yeah. I wanted to make sure 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.600 he won and finished that record because I started it 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.280 and I just you know, I wanted this was a 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.640 perfect way to get him started, and my mom was 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.160 happy that he won the first Grammy. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.720 Okay, just to be clear, growing up going to school, 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:56.680 you were Chris Algree, Yes, oh yes, I was. Okay, 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.880 let's switch gears. We were having a conversation about Dolby. 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.920 Is there a future for Atmost? 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.680 I think there's a future for atmost if people can 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.880 hear it the way I hear it. As we know. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.560 When Surround came in, it was like, oh, we're we 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.919 going to put these other speakers. So if they could 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.959 come up with a way where you can have nine 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.200 to one four, which is, you know, thirteen speakers in 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.240 your room, or a way to hear that or make 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.080 it look, you know, not weird with only speakers, I 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.840 think there's a future because it gives people a different 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.200 way to listen to music, and it matches the theater thing. 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:38.399 Okay, explain, not everybody's that sophisticated. Explain nine to one four. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:44.320 Well, nine one four would be uh. I mean that's 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:45.000 just the numbers. 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.720 So it basically needs thirteen speakers and one subwharp ers, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.760 so nine four and one so they can do it 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.519 with seven. I mean in my room, I have thirteen speakers, 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.320 so I have left center right, Okay, I have upper left, right, 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.280 lower left, right, back, left right, bottom left right. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.079 You know, and then very back is surround. 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.480 So surround was five speakers, so LCR and then left 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.480 right surround. Okay, with nine to one four at most, 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:18.799 just add four more speakers, okay, yeah, right, yes, and 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.639 no no, you add four more speakers in the middle 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:24.840 to give you upper I'm sorry, eight more speakers in 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.640 the middle to get upper and mid. And that surrounds 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:31.320 you in like a sphere of speakers. So it's almost 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.840 like the format for movies at most, same same same format. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.560 So we've added more points of origin for the audio. 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:45.160 Okay, So when you can get at most on Apple 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:52.160 Music and you listen on headphones, can you hear all 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.360 of that on headphones? 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.680 You get a simulation? So Apple has immersed of audio. 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:06.520 So by manipulating phase. They're able to assimilate, you know, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.280 the atmost experience in headphones, which is convenient, more convenient 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.680 nine than all these speakers. Is it the same? No, 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.960 When clients sit in my room dead center, it's our 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.800 big wow. In the headphones, it's a big hm wow. 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.560 Okay, let's go back. We had mono, we moved to 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.800 stereo in the sixties. In the seventies, there were two 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:38.680 competing quad formats, both ultimately failed. In the nineties we 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.880 had Q sound that failed. Why should this succeed when 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:44.480 all the other ones failed? 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:47.760 That's a good question. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:53.279 I mean, I feel that that this is the biggest 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.400 push I've seen in technology towards the you know, in 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:03.480 audio transformation. So really, and and one thing it does 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.040 is it makes the labels go into their libraries and 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.720 dig out these masters and take another look at them. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:12.719 So yeah, we'll see what happens. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.520 I think the major problem is if the listener can 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.159 enjoy the experience, okay, then it'll then it'll fail. 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:22.880 Maybe the car maybe that's the best way. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.400 The best place to put it in a fix because 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.440 you're in a fixed position, so that that might be 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.400 you know, one of the future ways to have it. 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.160 Okay, someone calls you up to mix. Are you doing 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.520 an outmost mix? For all the records? A few records. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.640 It's now something that is that has to be added. 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.280 And the main reason is because Apple is promoting this format. 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.919 When your record comes out, it'll show that you have 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.120 an atmost version that will put it kind of at 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.760 the top of the list like new Spatial. You know, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.200 new Spatial mixes will show up and then there's your record. 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.360 So if you don't put it out that most, then 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.960 you're not up there. So the labels and the bands 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.960 are really pushing to now have this other format added 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.360 in addition to just stereo. 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:19.119 Okay, So generally speaking, what are people sending you to mix? 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.560 They're sending you a pro Tools file with how many tracks? 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.600 What are you getting on the incoming. 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:31.320 I get their session, a pro Tool session. Sometimes it's organized, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.720 sometimes it's a complete disaster. Is it ever right? No, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.400 But it's all they send me. So yeah, I get 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.159 the multi track, I get the original recording. We mix 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.359 the stereo mixes. Once that's all approved, you know like 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.120 with Green Day or bon Jovia. Once that's all approved, 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.560 then we create the atmosphixes. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.000 So you know, it's not the old days of sixteen 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.480 and twenty four tracks. How many tracks might somebody might 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:57.960 send you. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.120 I've had stuff clock in and the high two hundreds, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:07.240 the high three hundreds, and I no matter how big, 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.200 no matter how big, that boat shows up in, I 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.520 dock it on forty four feaighters sometimes forty six. If 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.520 I have to push, I can get it down the 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.000 forty four forty six channels. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:18.960 And that's it. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.840 Okay, I come in with two hundred channels. What's the 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:22.680 first thing you do? 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.920 I go through the song and I find out where 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.240 all the handoffs are, which means most of the you know, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.440 the things that happen is that everything is separate. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:34.480 Everything is separate. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.480 So you'll have the vocal and the verse that's separate, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.000 the b sex or the chorus, they're all separate. If 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.640 they don't overlap. It's a handoff. Is it usually the 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:43.240 same sound? 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:43.560 Yes? 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.800 That can easily fold down. How about won there's like 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.440 forty eight tracks of backgrounds. They can easily fold down 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.800 to a couple of pairs without even the compromise. So 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.840 there's there's three things we focus on. A handoff is 0:07:56.880 --> 0:07:59.480 when literally part A and can go to part B 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.720 and parts part D on one track and it all works. 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.640 And then a comp is when you would take like 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.480 a low, a mid and a high harmony and just 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.000 make your own blend stereo and that saves a lot, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.200 a lot of faders. And then and then overlap is 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:16.600 when one thing overlaps with another, and then you you 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:18.400 have to make a decision there how you make that work, 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:20.920 and then all of a sudden it folds down pretty quick. 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:26.120 It is every day, Okay, you say, okaya, forty four faders? 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:31.280 Is the goal to get forty four or many fewer? Now? 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.160 Forty four is fine because some things I'll you know, 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.320 because for me, I want to have the drums spread 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:41.360 out the most because that's usually the biggest challenges to 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.839 get them right. So I don't want to make compromises there. 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.840 But I think, Bob, part of it is that I 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.840 come from a world of twenty four track, then two 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.640 twenty four tracks, then a forty eight digch tape machine, 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.840 so one tape, forty eight tracks play rewind. So the 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.640 reason the forty four number comes up simple on the 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.880 tape on tracks one and two would be their rough 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.760 mix that would stay there. Then I would need tracks 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.160 three and four for my mix, and then that would 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.520 leave me forty four tracks for the rest. So, no 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.560 matter what, it would competent. That was the number and 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.200 I'm sticking with it. Are there situations where I spread 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.320 it out a little bit more, Yeah, it was if 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.719 I have to, but I really I want to get 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.560 it down to this manageable size and then the mixing 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:26.000 is easy. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.840 Okay, do you do that yourself or do you have 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.200 somebody who does that for you before you get involved. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:35.720 I do it with my assistant. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.440 I usually if I get the session at home, I'll 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.200 prep it all ready for him and then he'll have 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:44.160 it ready for me to make those decisions. So since 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.080 we've been working together for years now, he knows what 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.680 decisions I'm going to make, he'll have those ready and 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.000 I'll fine tune those comps you know, or or edits, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:53.600 and then. 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.640 Go from there so we can always go back and 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:57.240 redo it. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:01.760 That's the great thing about protals is that with two 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:03.760 twenty four tracks, Hey, you got to make a decision. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:09.080 Okay, you got all forty four tracks up on the board. 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.839 What's your next step? Uh? 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.640 Well, we'll find out what this. You know, we'll listen 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.200 to the rough mix. We'll put the cues in, which means, okay, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.240 verse one B one, chorus one. Well, look, well, just 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.240 look how this song was built. Okay, And I'll put 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.320 the faders up and I'll look for where the problems 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.680 are and look where the magic is. So most of 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:32.480 the time, if I get the rhythm section to sound 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.920 right and the vocals to sound right, everything else falls 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.800 in between. So the vocals the most important thing in 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:40.960 the record. So I'll make sure I find all that 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:42.360 stuff and fix that all first. 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.720 Okay, you fix it? Then to what degree do you 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.000 add EQ in effects? And when. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:53.560 It's constant? 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.520 So I mean EQ and compression is constant, And it's 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.600 really the vocals get the most comple I should the 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.480 most EQ, the most editing to get what I call 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.640 a sound, to get more of an analog sound. If 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.400 you look back in the in the early days of recording, 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:12.440 I mean they built the sound in. They didn't have 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.080 all these options. Later later it was just let's just 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.360 turn some knobs and make it balance. Mixing is really 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.400 about getting a great balance and letting the song breathe. 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:23.560 So yeah, the. 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.280 Vocals will get most of the treatment and the drums 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.120 will be like, Okay, do I need to add samples 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.000 or not to make it do what I wanted to do, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.280 because the drums are always the holy grail to make 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:36.040 the record work, and a lot of these recordings are 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.560 not ideal and you know, and I'm not, I'm not, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.480 I'm not precious about any of it. I'm like, oh, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.080 we better keep their kick drums sound like no, if 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:45.480 it's not working, it's out of here. 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.840 So you will literally replace and add drums. 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.400 I always, I always have them ready. I always have 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.960 samples ready to go, and I just seasoned to taste. 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.360 Sometimes the steak shows up, it's perfect, it's medium, rare, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.920 it's got salt and pepper, a little bit of olive oil. 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.960 Boom, great. And then there's times where wow, that's unedible. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.200 So I'll just start seasoning it with samples to help it, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.439 you know, have the impact and do what I think 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:14.200 needs for the song. 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.480 Okay, let's go back to the vocals. Are you using 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.280 the EQ in the board or external EQ? 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.920 Well, I have you know, I have all the colors. 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.120 I have the biggest paint box going, so I have 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.280 I have EQ compression that starts from the sixties, so 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.120 plugins I actually created myself, so I'll use a little 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.120 bit of everything to make it work. So there'll be 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.600 some plugins in the box getting it started, and then 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.280 my traditional analog compression in EQ it's to finish it. 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.439 Okay. I think most people know what EQ is. Explain compression. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:55.760 Compression is just dynamic control. So, uh, you know a 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.360 lot vocals are very dynamics, so you want it. You 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.160 don't want to eye scraper in a neighborhood a single 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.240 story houses, so you want to make sure if the 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.000 song is working and everything's like a single story house, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.840 you want to make sure the vocal dynamic range matches 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.400 the song and matches the energy. If it's an open song, 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.079 you want to have it more dynamic. If it's a 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.880 rock song, you only you want it to have one 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.440 floor of dynamics, so it so you can understand it 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.920 and it has the energy of the track as Okay. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.760 Will you ever use compression on the overall result? 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:30.800 Yeah? 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.800 Oh yeah, that then you have on the whole On 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.360 the whole mix, it's called the bus. We have a 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.840 bus compressor, which means the mix bus. Okay, So whatever 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.160 your mix is going through before you know you print it. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.240 I have a bus compressitors. Uh. 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.000 I have a bus compressor, and I have tube eqs. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:54.839 I use Pulltech eqs that are tubes literally from the sixties. 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.400 That sound to me automatically makes this all work better. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.400 It adds a quality of low end and hind you 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.160 can't get out of a new digital eque. So I 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.320 used to traditional and it's not much. It's just to 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.000 top it off. That's always in. So I start with 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.080 that in. I don't change it. It's that's the setting, 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.480 and if it feels too much, I pull things back. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.880 But that's the set of them. And when it's done, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.280 mastering doesn't add anymore. It's like, okay, that's fine the 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:24.760 way it is. 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.840 Okay. So who do you use usually as a mastering engineer. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.680 I've been using Ted Jensen since the eighteen hundreds, kidding 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.840 Ted Jensen and I go back to nineteen eighty two 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:44.840 when I wandered in with a band demo and had 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.240 to master a band demo for me, and then later 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.480 on I just you know, started working him and he's 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.360 just my partner, but he's my partner in audio. I mean, 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:57.920 he knows what my sound is and he knows what 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.160 makes my clients happy. 0:14:59.560 --> 0:14:59.840 Now. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.080 The thing with mastering is that as long as the 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.280 client's happy, it's a win for everyone. But he also 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.720 understands that I don't want it to really change much. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:08.240 When I send it. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.920 Just just top it off, which means if I had a 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:14.240 bright day or a dull day, just just find the 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.000 balance where a record will sound the same. That's what 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.360 a mastering engineers there. This song needs a little more salt. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.560 Oh this is too salty. Let's let's let's go back 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:23.840 on that. 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:31.640 So okay, just staying on a big topic, analog versus digital. 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.520 What are your thoughts there? Uh? 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:40.240 Well, analog. Analog is like tinted windows. Okay, you roll 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.760 the windows up. It's got a vibe. Digital is like 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.720 clear glass. What goes in comes out with no enhancement. 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.120 When you record on analog, the transients get held back. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.040 It adds a bit of compression because it can you know, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.080 it's just tape, So it adds a vibe. It actually 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.920 fixes things, It makes things better, but it's noisy, and 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.560 a good engineer can work with that a log That 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.360 format is pretty much dead here. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:10.440 Someone really have to pay. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.840 Me extra money to go all analog with something could 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:14.240 I do it? 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:14.680 Of course? 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.120 But I started out analog and I was so happy 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.800 when digital came in. For the main reason is that 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.360 I could create a first generation copy of everything from 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.520 all the slave reels. So digital's really good because you 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:30.760 don't really lose anything when you copy it. And with 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:32.880 that a loog you had to really be careful and 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.160 you had your hands tied you really, I mean the 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:37.920 magic you can do now you could never do that. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.080 It was painful. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.160 Okay, you and me both know there's a lot of 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:49.280 compromises to get music on a vinyl record. Roll loss all. 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.840 You know, the Neil starts with the end. Whatever. What 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.560 do you think about today's vinyl boom? 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.880 I am so happy that the boom is happening for 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.040 want for one reason. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:04.359 I'll start with the first reason. 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.919 It gives the listener something to look at and read 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.720 and then get a vasion. It feel like he's been 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:17.800 transported into that record. Okay, when you looked at a 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.000 Beatles album, all these records santastic, santanic majesties. 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:22.240 Right. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.480 The album covers are so intense, but you're reading it 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.520 while you're listening. So let's just start there. It gives 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.200 gives guys like me a place to see their name. Ah, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.440 so someone knows who actually did it, because with streaming, 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.359 I mean it could be goddamn Captain Kangaroo mixed it. 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.840 Nobody knows I did it, and sometimes people take your credit. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.240 I'm so happy that we have something you could hold 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:48.960 in your hand, and whether you played or not, that 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:54.120 you have it, okay. And also I encourage my artists 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:57.399 everyone I work with to get to make great sounding vinyl, 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.240 which means if the record's too low, it's gonna be 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.600 two discs, okay. If you go over a certain time, 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.320 gotta make it two discs or three or four okay, 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:13.240 Dolly was four to get sound quality. If you pack 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.399 too much time on a disc, it just sounds like crap. 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.320 And have a mastering engineer master it for vinyl, which means, okay, 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.320 if you're gonna use a little compression in limiting or 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.720 whatever these guys do for rock stuff. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.840 Don't use any of that for the vinyl, okay. 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.760 And they have to eq it and cut an acetate 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.520 and do it differently because of like what you said, 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.320 the low end can make the needle jump. 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.040 The high end has to have a high le, a 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:39.840 limit or on it. 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.240 Use the techniques to use for that. That's what mastering 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.520 really was, is the magic disc cutter. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:52.679 Okay, I fully understand when you have analog tapes and 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:57.080 you ultimately make a vinyl record, it doesn't quite make 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.400 sense to me to start with digital and make nyl. 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.600 You have a very clear sound. You're actually compromising what 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:04.080 you have. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.720 I don't think you're actually My opinion on that is 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.640 that if you take your ninety six K twenty four 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.119 bit wavefile a right which we all make, and you 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.919 make an album from it, it makes it sound analogue 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.000 because of the limiting, because of what you have to 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.920 do to get it on vinyl, because that little bit 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:32.159 of tweaking kind of rounds it off and actually takes 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.000 the harshness out of it. So I love listening to 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:39.560 records at home, and there's just something magic about putting 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:41.280 the needle on the record and listening to it. And 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:45.119 I have a giant pa outside, so I mean listening 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.320 out there. I mean you listen to Asia on a 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:51.480 first pressing, It's it's magical. There's something in there that 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:53.840 you can't take away. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.000 Ok So you mentioned Asia, any other reference Vinyl. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.280 Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Amazing. 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.359 I mean, look, I put on Doobie Brothers, Okay, I 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:12.600 put on Beatles, I put on the Rolling Stones, and 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.399 sometimes with the Stones, Street Fighting Man will sound better 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.359 on one album and different on another. To the point 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.520 where we're all having dinner. And I emailed them and said, hey, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.960 you know I'm through the past Darkly volume too. It 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.800 sounds great on there, but I think on Beaker's banquet 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.440 it sounded all the started and screwed up. So check 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.120 that out. And he did and said, you are right. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:41.480 So okay, let's go into gear. So what kind of 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:42.920 board do you have in your studio. 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.560 I've been driving this bus for a long time. Solid 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:52.800 State SSL four thousand series. I first started on it 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.840 in nineteen eighty four and I'm not going anywhere. I'm 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:56.520 staying with it. 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:02.879 Okay. SSL was a breakthrough. Know it was digital, the faders. 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.720 Moved, it's analog. 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.199 It is analog, shows what I know. Yes, it was 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.240 one of the first where the faders moved right. 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.720 Well, yeah, eventually they came out with Ultimation where the 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.280 faders had motors and they moved. Yes, it started out. 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.640 I still use one where the faders don't move if 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.639 I don't want them to move. If God wanted faders 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.160 to move and give them wings, I don't want faders moving. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.400 I move them, then they move where I don't want them. 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:32.280 Okay, a couple of things. Do you think the motors 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:33.720 add something to the sound. 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.960 Well, the reason, yeah, the reason they put the motors 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.520 in was to eliminate the use of a VCA, a 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:47.680 voltage controlled attenuator, and make it a clear path. Some 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.760 people like that song. Some people can hear the difference. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.600 My brother uses ultimation. I don't hear a problem with 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.480 the VCA. That's how it started, and that's how I'm 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:58.000 going with it. 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.600 I like it. I like I just like it does. 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:01.920 But it is an improvement. 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:04.439 Well, that's why they made it was an improvement to 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:06.320 have no audio going through the fader. 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.160 Okay. Explain that a little deeper the VCA and how 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.080 the audio doesn't go through the fader. Uh. 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.399 Well, the first the first console you could that you 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.320 could automate, which you could have it remember your moves. 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:24.440 It's a fault. It's controlled to tell you it's a VCA. Okay. 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.639 So when they moved from that, you could actually switch 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.720 from VC mode to motors on. That means the audio 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:37.880 comes out of the chain, okay, and the and the 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:42.680 the audio levels being controlled differently and supposed to sound 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.960 a little more open, a little more punchy. But you know, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:50.240 it's it's apples and oranges. It's it's it's opinion. It's 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:54.679 supposed to be better. I didn't care about it. I 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:56.520 mean pro tools, the faders moved no matter what, you 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:57.280 have no choice. 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.040 Okay, this is a nineteen eight or four. 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.320 All this one's eighty six, yeah. 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:07.160 Eighty six. Excuse me. In the last forty years, other 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.679 than automation, what way have they evolved? 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.960 Well, with solid state logic, Yes, the quality has evolved, okay, 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:20.560 and everything about it is evolved. Has it made it better? 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:25.720 Not necessarily in our music business right now, what's evolved 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:30.040 is how cheap the stuff has gotten and how quality 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:31.959 has gone out the window, and a lot of things 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.280 and convenience has taken over. Okay, because remember these things 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.800 cost a fortune. So and the old needs and the 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:40.199 older consoles from that golden era of the seventies and 0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:43.840 eighties is where they really had high quality. Now there's 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.560 still the big consoles that have great sound. But this 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:52.320 workflow and this build makes me play it like an 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:55.560 instrument or the newer ones, it's too much that I 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:58.119 don't need to use, Okay, I need for it to 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.040 remember my moves, remember my mutes, and take a snapshot 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:02.000 and remember what I did. 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:03.000 That's all I care about. 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:07.680 And you know, when SSL came on the market, there 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:11.080 were people who either SSL or Neve people. So what 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:13.680 do you think about Neive, Harris and all the other 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:15.679 boards that compete with SSL. 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.520 Well, for me, I think that the Neve sound is 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:24.320 great to capture to record with. And I've done some 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.000 great albums that are recorded on a Neve console. Tina Turner, 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:29.600 you know, and they had that golden area of the 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:32.560 eighty fifty eight, the eighty sixty eight, the eighty seventy eight, 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:34.200 great class a mic praise. 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:34.800 You know. 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:37.360 I still use Neve modules to record stuff. They still 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:41.600 have the best sound. But the SSL four thousand console 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:45.200 is a mixing machine. It was built for one purpose, 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:50.479 to give you the ultimate production tool ever, and nothing 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:53.920 is going to ever beat the simplicity of this. When 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.520 I started out, it was two twenty four tracks, you know, 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.639 being able to automate and save it and save a 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:03.320 picture of your mix so you could recall it and 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:06.040 put it back up. To this day, I can still 0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:08.880 recall any mix I've done in twenty years, and it's 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:10.639 going to be really close if not spot up. 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:22.680 Okay, before automation, you know, on certain mixes you'd have 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.080 to bring multiple people into the studio to move the faders. 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:30.119 So how do you do it? Uh? 0:25:31.440 --> 0:25:33.840 In back then, let's go back then we'll start with 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:36.879 it back then. Back then you would have pieces of 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:40.040 tape in the faders with little marks. Okay, So back then, 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.640 when I mix with no automation, I would mix until 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:45.000 I made a mistake and I'm printing to the half inch, 0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:47.439 so I start to mix the half inches rolling. I'm like, oh, 0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:49.640 it's going great, all right, stop the half inch when 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.000 I made a mistake, back up, start the happench again, backup, 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:54.560 pick up where I was going, and keep stopping and starting, 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:57.639 and then edit the half inch together. We're all you 0:25:57.680 --> 0:25:59.720 know where it was correct, So you would you would 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.040 make notation say okay, mix good up till the bridge. Okay, 0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:05.520 here's the chorus. This is fine. You'd have to remember 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:08.439 the good part edited together, and it's easy to edit 0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:10.840 because you're editing this, you're editing what works together. 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:13.919 So that's how you did mixing. You just make edits. 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:16.399 That that was your automation, your automations you go to 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:18.560 you make a mistake, then back up and punch it 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:21.760 in fix apart and I tell you Living in America 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:25.800 by James Brown went that way and many others. And 0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:28.080 when you have to go back and print like the 0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:30.919 instrumental or the TV track, you got to remember all 0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:34.600 your moves and do the same exact thing again, and that, 0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:39.119 you know what, that builds, That builds integrity. 0:26:39.720 --> 0:26:40.840 That's a great way to learn. 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:45.359 Then when you're able to automate, it's like it's it's 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:47.680 it's like an unbelievable dream coming true that it will 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:52.760 remember what you do. Early systems were bad, but the 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.879 SSL became the ultimate mixing machine. 0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:58.879 A Bob Clear Mountain who is my idol and I think. 0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.840 Probably one of the greatest, the greatest mixers of all 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:05.440 time and a really sweet eye talented guy. 0:27:05.600 --> 0:27:07.240 He's the one that used this. 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:11.760 Tool to turn into a superstar on mixes like Let's 0:27:11.840 --> 0:27:16.840 Dance on start Me Up Okay, where they just they 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:19.280 and all the Springsteen stuff. 0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:21.120 They just go beyond. 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:24.120 How much of that was the machine and how much 0:27:24.200 --> 0:27:25.000 was clear mountain. 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:32.200 Obviously it's all the mixer's ears. But the tools enable 0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:35.359 him to go beyond what he could pull off. Okay, 0:27:35.920 --> 0:27:38.159 so you get better with the tools that you can 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:40.040 go beyond this. Oh I could do this with it. 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:42.040 Now I can make it do that. I hear this 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:44.240 thing in my head. I can actually get it, and 0:27:44.280 --> 0:27:46.720 trust me. In the early eighties, you know, it was challenging. 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:49.720 I mean, we're all trying really hard to make these things, 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:50.920 you know, larger than life. 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.400 So the tool was a miracle. 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:58.160 Okay, let's talk about speakers. We had our tones than 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:02.080 nsten M's and then you know they have the big speakers, 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:03.840 the Augsburgers. What do you use? 0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.160 And it's tense, the same ones I've had since nineteen 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:12.639 eighty something, eighty seven or eighty eight. And here's a 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:14.919 simple way to put it. I started out it was 0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:19.119 oritones in the late seventies, or maybe it was nineteen eighty. 0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:21.880 The first pair showed up, Okay, and we all got 0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:26.679 into it. The thing about the ns ten like it 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.600 or love it. It's the sound of hits. Okay, and 0:28:29.840 --> 0:28:33.080 whatever whatever you hear through. If you can make it 0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:36.040 work on that, the opposite is what the record is. Okay, 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:38.680 So if you can make it work for you, what 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:43.200 your result is. What records sound like. That's what hit 0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.560 records are to me. It's the it's a tool, okay, 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:50.560 whatever it sounds like. You get used to it and you. 0:28:50.440 --> 0:28:50.959 Live with it. 0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:55.840 It becomes your tool, becomes your reference. And still to 0:28:55.840 --> 0:28:59.640 this day, if I use other speakers, the mix sounds different. 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:05.040 Things I don't like pop up and so yeah, I 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.520 stay with it. I even created it with avingtone the 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:11.560 CLA tens, which is the best we could do to 0:29:11.680 --> 0:29:12.760 make an exact copy. 0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:13.160 Okay. 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.440 The only real difference in mind versus the originals are 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.360 mine or new and it's a fatigue, so they get 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:21.440 a little duller like the originals. But we did the 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:25.560 best we could do to make a match. And and 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:26.480 that's the story on that. 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.760 Okay. Back when they hit the market, everybody was putting 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:33.000 a little piece of Kleenex over the tweeter. You still 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:35.000 do that? What do you think about that? 0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:38.720 Well, at this point, I'm so old. I wanted to 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:39.200 be brighter. 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.200 Okay, No, I have the cover, I have the covers, 0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:47.200 really I don't even have I have the covers on them. 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:50.520 I literally have see the original nsten ms had covers 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:52.920 that want on right, and they look really nice. I 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:55.320 don't want to look at the white cultun anymore. I 0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:57.240 had many years with the white colen a tissue. Now 0:29:57.320 --> 0:29:59.160 I just put the cover on it and the cover 0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:00.120 makes it dark. 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:04.960 Okay, your speaker business, the CLA speaker, Is that a business? 0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:07.000 Uh? 0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:07.960 Yeah, it's a product. 0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:10.600 I have a CLA ten and a CLA ten Active, 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:14.440 which obviously is popular because people want a powered speaker. 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:18.800 I even have the virtual tissue paper controller. 0:30:20.560 --> 0:30:23.440 And I mean, you know there's a lot of monitors 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:26.560 out there. Can you get them through sweet Water people 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:29.520 buying them? Or is it a very niche product? 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:31.160 Uh? 0:30:31.200 --> 0:30:34.280 It's the biggest selling passive monitor there is. 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:39.240 Everywhere Sweetwater at where everyone has them. 0:30:39.760 --> 0:30:43.160 And were you do any selling marketing or it just 0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:43.960 sells itself? 0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:47.800 Well, I mean it's a I do a little bit. 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:49.920 I mean I did a few ads for it. I 0:30:49.960 --> 0:30:51.960 even made a power amp to match it, the CLA 0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:54.640 two hundred, because I wanted to have the companion that 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:57.040 went with it, which is a power amp that that 0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:59.960 to me gets the closest sound. And we're also coming 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.280 out with a subwook first, so it matches that. So 0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:06.320 and yes, Sweetwater sells it. Everybody sells it, I mean, 0:31:07.080 --> 0:31:09.080 and I sell it at the right price. I mean, 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:11.240 I made it as cheap as possible. I just wanted 0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:16.400 engineers to have the tool because I'd get calls like, hey, Chris, 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:19.520 I got these enus tens from eBay and they sound weird. 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:21.800 Can you check them out for me? And they're usually 0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:25.240 mismatched or screwed up, and it's not fair that you 0:31:25.240 --> 0:31:27.760 spend your hard money and you can't trust it. 0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:29.360 So how much does a pear cost? 0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.880 I think they're like eight ninety nine or and the 0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:35.240 powers are nine ninety nine. 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:37.520 Okay, and tell me about the amplifier. 0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:43.040 It's I literally took the amplifier that I use been 0:31:43.120 --> 0:31:45.920 using a Yamaha amplifier and said, look, just make a 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:48.160 copy of this. Make something it sounds like this, built 0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:51.719 like this, and it worked, and I plugged it in 0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:53.760 and said, you know what, this feels really familiar. 0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:56.360 I'm happy with this. Okay, this does what it's supposed 0:31:56.400 --> 0:31:56.560 to do. 0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:59.120 To what degree are you a gear hit? Worrying about 0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:01.760 the wire and all kinds of other stuff like that. 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:06.200 Uh, well, I don't care about the wire. I don't 0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:06.760 go that far. 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:09.280 Look as long as it as long as it creates 0:32:09.280 --> 0:32:13.560 the sound that I'm used to. Yeah, that's it, because 0:32:13.600 --> 0:32:16.120 I have so much vintage gear, and yeah, it's all 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:18.560 made out of unobtainium. And when it breaks, it breaks, 0:32:18.560 --> 0:32:22.840 and when it stops working, you're bummed out. But I know, 0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:24.400 you know, I know what these things say. I know 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.680 what they can do for my paint box. You know, 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.160 I know what color is supposed to have. But yeah, 0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:31.400 we're always tweaking and having fun always. 0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:34.960 Okay, So that particular board, how long has that been 0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:35.320 with you? 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:38.240 This board's been in this room since nineteen eighty six, 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.040 and it's seen it's had this particular one, which is 0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:46.400 a seventy two. I mean Tupacsichord did his records on it. 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:50.320 Before that, it was Stone Tempo Pilot, It's a lot 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:53.280 of rock bands. Before that, it was death Row for 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:56.320 a minute, and then after death Row someone else took over. 0:32:56.440 --> 0:32:58.800 Then I bought the place, so about sixteen years ago, 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.680 two studios, but this has been here since since new. 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:04.720 Since new, it hasn't. 0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:09.400 Moved, Okay, so tell us about your studio complex. What 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:09.920 do you have? 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:14.640 Well, now I have three rooms. I have a studio A. 0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.560 I'm a studio B Studio A I rent out, and 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:19.440 then I have a studio D I call. I don't 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:21.200 really have a C. I have a studio D that 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:23.440 I have with a brand new origin in it. So 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:27.640 I have my partners in there. He's working, so we're 0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:30.240 fully functional. But this is like, this is my rooms 0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.960 and this is whatever is me is in here. Only 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:35.480 nobody else comes in here unless I'm producing it or 0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:36.560 I'm involved. 0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:40.120 Okay, studio has been closed and left, right and center. 0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:44.880 How's your business and how do you stay open? Well, 0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:46.880 it's simple, it's got to be owner operator. 0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:47.480 Okay. 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:50.720 So being in the studio business is challenging unless you 0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:53.840 have a lot of loyal clients. But if you think 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:56.640 about it right now, A and M Studios. Okay, Hence 0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:59.440 it A and M the last the five or six 0:33:59.520 --> 0:34:01.920 big ones, or left our books solid all the time 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:06.160 now because I was working with Dwight, and Dwight couldn't 0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:08.640 find a room to finish vocals in and he always 0:34:08.680 --> 0:34:10.719 wants to be in A and M. So I mean 0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:14.680 all the last of the Mohicans are all busy, but 0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:18.480 it's an owner operator thing. You have to be the 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:21.720 work and then you just the studios your place. 0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:27.239 Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from New Jersey. 0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:31.919 Where trying to fly in New Jersey and tell people 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:33.320 where that is in New Jersey? 0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:36.399 Got some you know, twenty minutes from the city over 0:34:36.440 --> 0:34:40.200 in Bergen County, New Jersey. I was born in Englewood, 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:44.520 lived in Tenafly. We moved a bit. My first job 0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:47.720 was I got it H and L Studios in Anglewood. 0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:50.320 Wait, before you get there, your mother was a singer. 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:52.240 What'd your father do for a living? 0:34:53.200 --> 0:34:55.640 My father was in the jukebox and vending business. 0:34:55.960 --> 0:34:57.200 So really. 0:34:58.360 --> 0:35:01.520 Yes, so he you know, he would jukebox and cigarettes 0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:05.960 and occasionally some pins and some bowlers, but it was 0:35:06.280 --> 0:35:09.080 jukeboxes and he had to load them up. And he 0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:11.719 had a whole room full of forty fives and it 0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:14.520 was top forty, so it was one through forty, and 0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:17.120 every week or so he would update their locations and 0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:19.279 change them. And I was able to go in there 0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:22.879 as like a tot and grab forty fives and play 0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:24.279 them and take them home. 0:35:25.239 --> 0:35:28.560 Okay, that business historically is controlled by the mob. 0:35:30.800 --> 0:35:35.839 Yeah, and the mob basically forced them out. The mob said, look, 0:35:35.920 --> 0:35:38.319 you either sell to us or we're going to kill 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:42.160 your whole family. He got pushed around by the mob 0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:45.440 to the point where he sold his company to a 0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:49.520 bigger vendor betson that were a little bit more immune 0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:52.279 to the mob influence. But no, he had guys coming 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:53.160 in wanting to hand out. 0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:54.040 Yeah. 0:35:54.200 --> 0:35:58.120 He told me the stories about the situations and when 0:35:58.160 --> 0:35:58.960 he sold out it. 0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:02.080 That was like the reason why he got out of 0:36:02.120 --> 0:36:02.759 the business. 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:05.120 What did his father do for a living. 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:10.800 His father was an embroiderer from Switzerland, so he comes 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:15.840 directly from Switzerland. So, uh, my father's parents are from Switzerland. 0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:19.640 He was an embroiderer, so he embroided patches and flags 0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:20.760 and things like that. 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:24.400 And then how did your father get into the jukebox business? 0:36:25.200 --> 0:36:28.319 You know, that's a question I don't have the answer for. 0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:30.520 But I think him and his war buddy, you know, 0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:32.600 he had a he was in World War Two, and 0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:35.160 I think as one of his close friends, you know, 0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:37.080 that was an idea for them. That was an idea 0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:40.120 to get into that business. It's all cash, and my 0:36:40.200 --> 0:36:43.239 father loved music. He's the top forty guy. He was 0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:46.680 the one saying he'd hear a song on mind already, goes, 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:48.839 is that one of ours? I'm like, no, Dad, that's 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.319 somebody else. Why isn't that yours? That's a good song, 0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:53.600 that's a hit. He'd hear Mine goes, you know what, 0:36:53.640 --> 0:36:55.440 I don't think it's going to go. I don't think 0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:56.320 it's going to do anything. 0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:57.040 And then that. 0:36:57.120 --> 0:36:59.319 Stevie winning He goes, Yeah, that stev Went went thing 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:02.120 that's gonna go. That's that that higher love thing, and 0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:03.200 that that's a good one. 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:07.840 That'll go. Watch them it watch it. He's right, it's funny. 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:09.560 And tell me about your mother's career. 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:14.799 My mom was, you know, a diehard jazz artist, professor 0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:18.200 of music. She taught she you know, she taught music. 0:37:18.239 --> 0:37:19.400 She lived it, she breathed it. 0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:20.520 Uh. 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:22.680 She played every day till the day she died. I 0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:26.200 mean she always had the pianos, always played and uh 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:29.680 and I did four records with their jazz records. She 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:33.880 was just hardcore jazz, intelligent, very smart. But you know, 0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:37.200 raising five kids, it's a challenging being out in those 0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:40.440 little clubs, dinner clubs, playing it's you know, you got 0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:41.880 to have a lot of patience and a lot of 0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:43.560 a lot of pride to hold on to that. 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:48.960 So in the five kids, where are you in the hierarchy. 0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.040 I'm right in the middle, right in the middle. 0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:54.320 So so what is everybody doing today? 0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.839 Ah, I mean, you know, there's five, but it's now 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.799 six because before she got married, she had a child 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:03.400 at wedlock, which is my older sister. 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:05.120 So I have a I have an. 0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:07.759 Older sister, an older brother, and another older sister, and uh 0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:10.799 my two younger brothers. Obviously Tommy does the same thing 0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:14.479 I do. My brother Jeff was younger. He does live 0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:17.440 sound in the in the in the Pacific North, in 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:21.239 the well in the West in Wyoming. My older brother 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:24.200 was in the vending business. He's retired. He was he 0:38:24.239 --> 0:38:26.480 took over my dad's but he took over doing that. 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.879 He basically worked for a mobster. I mean, he worked 0:38:28.880 --> 0:38:31.000 for guys that were questionable. 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:32.239 H he did. 0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:35.320 He was probably the greatest guy who could fix a 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:38.360 jukebox or a pinball, and he knows every single model. 0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:42.880 And then my you know, my sister is a complete entrepreneur. So, uh, 0:38:43.920 --> 0:38:45.799 the music thing was me and my two brothers. Really, 0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:47.600 my two younger brothers. We really went for it. 0:38:48.400 --> 0:38:50.520 Okay, So what kind of kid were you? Growing up? 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:54.440 Good or bad? In school? Friend? Sports? 0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:58.240 Uh? The school didn't last till it ended in eighth grade, 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:01.799 so uh, I just carried. 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:03.040 Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. 0:39:03.120 --> 0:39:06.640 Let's start with the school. The lawe is you have 0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:10.040 to go to school till you're sixteen. Needles to say 0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:13.240 you're not sixteen in eighth grade. So what exactly happened? 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:19.760 Well, my mom saw that I wasn't really interested in school. 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:24.560 I was more interested in music and recording because I 0:39:24.600 --> 0:39:26.800 would take her equipment. She just had like a real toreal, 0:39:26.840 --> 0:39:29.200 a few mics in a mixer. I took that into 0:39:29.200 --> 0:39:32.200 the basement. I started at eleven, twelve years old, recording 0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:35.400 a little band down there, and I would cut school 0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:40.040 and we'd hang out make music. And she finally realized, well, 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:41.440 he's not going to go to school, I better get 0:39:41.480 --> 0:39:45.200 him a job. So yeah, by eighth grade, I didn't 0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:47.960 even finish eighth grade, and I got a job at 0:39:47.960 --> 0:39:51.120 a studio at thirteen fourteen, and at thirteen. 0:39:51.239 --> 0:39:55.160 The government never came over and said, this guy's not sixteen, 0:39:55.160 --> 0:40:00.120 he's got to go back to school. Nope, okay, and 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:03.000 you did go to school. You have a lot of friends, 0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:04.520 you play sports or more of a. 0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:08.160 Loaner, total loaner, and mostly into the music. And because 0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:11.200 I've had long hair, the greasers would pick on me. 0:40:12.520 --> 0:40:14.320 And because I wanted to hang out in the music 0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:16.560 room with a few of my other friends or smoke 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:19.560 pop behind the school, all the greasers would come after 0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:21.920 me because I was the hippie. And it was you know, 0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:25.560 it was always the greasers versus the freaks, right, And 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:26.439 that's how that went. 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:28.520 So getting out of school was a win. 0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:32.160 Okay, do you have any kids. 0:40:33.000 --> 0:40:35.640 I have a twenty twenty two year old daughter who's 0:40:35.680 --> 0:40:37.680 graduates college next week. 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:41.680 Okay, that's my question. Did you tell her she's got 0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:43.760 to go to college? Did you want to go to college? 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:47.799 I just no, I just said, you do whatever you want. 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:51.719 I mean, I'm gonna I'll whatever. I'll take care of 0:40:51.719 --> 0:40:53.719 your schooling as far as you want to go. So 0:40:53.840 --> 0:40:55.759 it's I'm not telling you what to do at all. 0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:59.680 So no, she she's a great student, has done very well, 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:02.839 and she's gone all the way and she might even 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:05.880 go to you know, a mastering whatever. The next level is, 0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:09.520 but I think at this point I like to see 0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:12.759 her get some real work experience because I believe that's 0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:16.120 part of my success is starting at such an early age, 0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:18.680 you actually it becomes part of you. 0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:23.720 Then. Okay, many people of our vintage started off playing 0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:28.520 instruments being in band, especially after the Beatles hit did 0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:29.280 you ever play? 0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:30.279 Oh? 0:41:30.400 --> 0:41:35.239 Yeah, I played a little bit of everything. So I 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:38.560 was a piano player, drummer, guitar player. In my band, 0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:41.799 I was a guitar player, keyboard player, and then the 0:41:41.880 --> 0:41:44.960 drummer was good, but he would speed everything up. And 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:46.759 I love drums, so I picked up drums and I 0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:49.480 started playing drums and ended up playing drums with a 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:52.480 lot of records I would produce. And there are even 0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:55.080 some mixes that the drums were so bad. I just 0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:58.400 replayed them, didn't tell them. I don't get in trouble. 0:42:05.560 --> 0:42:07.799 Okay, your father was in the business, you had a 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:11.719 room of Top forty. But when you started listening to 0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:14.440 the radio, what is it that caught your ears? 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.439 I mean I listened to am cousin Brucie. I started there. 0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:21.440 I mean when I was young. Uh so I was 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:24.680 always listening to the Top forty hits. I was always, 0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:26.600 you know, I cared about what was you know, what 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:29.000 was the hit and my dad had the list always, 0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:31.120 so I'd look at the Billboard list he had and 0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:33.080 I always check out those and have forty fives of that. 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:37.400 Well then, you know, fast forward a few more years. 0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:40.040 My brother gives me, my older brother gives me a 0:42:40.160 --> 0:42:44.480 joint and a led Zeppelin cassette, and I started listening 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:46.480 to that every night, and then it changed and then 0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.640 it was like, okay Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and then it 0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:53.480 was Genesis and the Prague moved in, and then it 0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:54.400 became Genesis. 0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:57.160 So wait, wait till you're a big proger. 0:42:57.840 --> 0:42:59.919 Oh yeah, I mean all I listened to was Jenn 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:03.520 It's like I play the Lamb all the time. I mean, 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:05.320 I'm a proger, totally a proger. 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:09.440 And what about yes, General Giant and all. 0:43:09.280 --> 0:43:15.520 The other totally general Giant, elp all that yes yours 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:19.479 is notis grace all the progue. I mean, to this day, 0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:21.960 I'm out anytime I can see Steve Hackett and I've 0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:25.040 seen a hundred Hacket shows, so all the Genesis shows 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:27.879 that could go to even the the you know, even 0:43:27.920 --> 0:43:31.160 the last round, which is a little disappointing because Phil 0:43:31.239 --> 0:43:33.400 was just like not, I you know, not in the best. 0:43:34.280 --> 0:43:37.040 So but yeah, Steve Hackett the only one keeping it going. 0:43:37.080 --> 0:43:40.600 And then there's also Stephen Wilson. He's great progue guys. 0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:45.319 So yeah, come on, what do you think of Wilson's 0:43:46.360 --> 0:43:48.560 remixes on the classic albums? 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:51.279 You know, to be honest with you, I have not 0:43:51.480 --> 0:43:55.799 compared them to the originals. And you know, if he's 0:43:55.840 --> 0:43:57.920 able to do it great and the band's like it great, 0:43:58.239 --> 0:44:00.919 I you know, me and my brother Tommy would bust 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:03.320 his balls when we see him at the show, saying, dude, 0:44:03.320 --> 0:44:05.399 you're not a mixer, send your files to us. We'd 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:09.600 much prefer this record if we mixed it. Well, I 0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:12.400 like the records. I'd like to mix it myself, you know. 0:44:13.480 --> 0:44:16.520 I guess you know he remixes them, and he's told me, 0:44:17.200 --> 0:44:19.440 you know, because the bands want changes that are you know, 0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:22.359 the people who are listening are the hardcore fans. They 0:44:22.440 --> 0:44:25.800 want him to sound like the originals. So when listening, 0:44:25.840 --> 0:44:28.480 it sounds like he took steel wool and scrub stuff 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:30.920 off where it's like Giles Martin, what he did with 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:32.239 the Beatles is a travesty. 0:44:34.320 --> 0:44:38.640 Yes, I mean I agree that I agree with you 0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:42.279 on that completely. When you remix something that's been heard 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:45.719 a million times, make sure that all the elements that 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:48.680 are in there makes make the listener feel like it's 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:52.360 just a cleaned up version. It's clarity. You bring clarity 0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:55.160 to it, and wow, this is just sounds so clear. 0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:59.959 I mean, for example, Nick Davis remixed the Lamb right, 0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:02.000 and I said, up a list of notes of shitt 0:45:02.000 --> 0:45:04.200 he missed, Like, dude, you miss these things that I 0:45:04.239 --> 0:45:06.000 remember from my youth or not not in the mix? 0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:08.200 Now what happened? Did you not listen to the rough? 0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:10.400 Did you not check what you were doing? Do you 0:45:10.480 --> 0:45:13.760 not know what you're doing? I mean, now, if gild 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:17.440 goes back and changes history, then call it something else, 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:19.800 you know, call you know, reducts. 0:45:19.800 --> 0:45:20.640 You give it a new name. 0:45:20.680 --> 0:45:23.560 But you know, if you're going to remix it and 0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:25.799 clean it up, clean it up, make it clear, make 0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:29.200 it separate, but don't don't kill it for the listener. 0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:30.160 It's not fair. 0:45:32.200 --> 0:45:35.320 I'm just worried those will become the standard as time 0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:38.359 goes on. So your first gig is what. 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:41.040 Oh oh? 0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:44.040 Back to the beginning. The first gig. I walked in 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:48.200 on when I was doing getting the job. The first 0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:50.520 day of introduction, they're cutting Van McCoy. 0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:54.360 Do the hustle really well, let's go a little bit slower. 0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:57.920 How do you get the gig? Well? 0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:02.680 I mean, my mom had friend ends and she basically said, 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:04.680 what do I do with this kid? He takes my 0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:08.440 gear downstairs, he's always a tickering around with recording and 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:09.480 he won't go to school. 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:12.160 And her friend says, I know a guy. I know 0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:12.440 a guy. 0:46:12.760 --> 0:46:15.400 He's an engineer in the studio. Maybe he needs an assistant. 0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:19.480 Maybe he could be there tea boy. So my mom said, hey, 0:46:19.560 --> 0:46:21.439 I gotta we have an idea this date. This guy 0:46:21.480 --> 0:46:23.560 may want to hire you in a recording studio. I'm like, 0:46:23.800 --> 0:46:25.560 oh cool, I want to see a recording studio. 0:46:25.640 --> 0:46:27.960 Let's go. So we went up to H and L. 0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:30.920 Hugo and Luigi's studio, which. 0:46:30.680 --> 0:46:33.640 Had just just got in the twenty four track console 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:36.399 just got a twenty four track tape machine. Twenty four jack, 0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:40.480 twenty four track just came out and it had an 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:43.640 MCI console, a pair of ortones and some big reds. 0:46:44.520 --> 0:46:46.360 And I went there and they're tracking due to hustle, 0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:48.600 and I was just like, this is the place for me. 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:53.960 I gotta ask they're tracking through the hustle, do you 0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:54.680 hear it as a hit? 0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:59.759 I was so enamored with, you know, the hearing a 0:46:59.800 --> 0:47:02.040 band play because I only hear I didn't hear the 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:04.400 vocals yet. I only heard the track, you know, I 0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:06.440 didn't know what it was. I only heard like the 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:10.040 basic track, you know, I did not hear and it's 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:12.680 kind of an instrumental anyway, but I heard it. I 0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.319 was so enamored. I didn't even think about that aspect though. 0:47:16.760 --> 0:47:19.920 So where was the studio and who were these two guys? 0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:23.279 Hugo and Luigi are a songwriter's production team that did 0:47:23.320 --> 0:47:26.680 a lot of the Philly sound, the stylistics, the soft homes. 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:29.600 They wrote the Lions Sleeps Tonight, They wrote a lot 0:47:29.600 --> 0:47:31.359 of a couple of things that actually wrote a song, 0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:32.560 a couple of songs for Elvis. 0:47:32.600 --> 0:47:36.600 I think a couple Italian guys, you know that had 0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:38.399 the Philly sound. 0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:41.400 They had a little company going on and the engineer 0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:46.320 Steve Jerome, he was my mentor, and they were writing 0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:50.120 on Angle with Cliffs on Route nine W a quarter 0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:51.480 mile down the road. 0:47:52.000 --> 0:47:52.960 From Rudy van. 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:56.200 Gelder studio and what was going on in that studio. 0:47:56.440 --> 0:47:58.840 I never got to go in. He never let anybody 0:47:58.840 --> 0:47:59.160 in there. 0:48:00.560 --> 0:48:03.880 Okay, so you're there the first day, they're tracking the hustle. 0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:06.959 What do they have you doing when you start going there? 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:13.360 Literally in the beginning, Steve was a very tough teacher, 0:48:13.520 --> 0:48:16.480 but he was one hundred percent right, and I thank 0:48:16.560 --> 0:48:20.279 him every single day. He taught me to listen and 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:25.520 pay attention and shut up, do not speak, do what 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:29.160 you're told, and watch, watch the ball, watch what we're doing. 0:48:29.360 --> 0:48:30.920 Okay, very simple. 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:34.040 So I started out by wrapping mike cables and helping 0:48:34.040 --> 0:48:35.279 with set up and cleaning up. 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:35.759 You know. 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:38.840 I went through the paces. I mean, he'd show me 0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:40.960 how to wrap a mic cable. I would do it. 0:48:41.040 --> 0:48:42.560 He'd say, no, that's wrong. You throw them all down 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:43.560 and make me do it again. 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:45.000 You know. 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:47.560 He said, you got to pay attention to what I'm 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:50.600 telling and showing you, and that went a long way. 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:54.200 Writing track sheets a track sheet and then sitting there 0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:57.040 and running the remote and punching and record. So I 0:48:57.080 --> 0:48:59.959 used to run the remote. If they're doing vocals, I'd 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:03.120 I'd watch a hand signal and punch record and watch 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:06.759 another hand signal to punch out. The hand signals got 0:49:06.840 --> 0:49:10.279 smaller and the gesterres, the gestures got to the point 0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:13.279 what was barely a wink because they knew I was 0:49:13.320 --> 0:49:17.759 watching so and then if I missed, he goes, what 0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:21.080 do you want vacation over there? He's comment through constant 0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:26.120 So No, the embarrassment, the constant ridiculing and embarrassment, it 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:28.319 makes you have a tough skin. But you know what, 0:49:28.480 --> 0:49:30.640 I got a lot of respect after a while because 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:35.000 Steve would say, just get over here, Chris. He's the best. No, 0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:38.319 he can't rattle him. No matter what you do. He's 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:41.000 on it. He pays attention. And I kept my mouth 0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:42.319 shut and he's it's right. 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:43.560 You know what. 0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:47.960 Only speak when you're spoken to, okay, And because you're 0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:50.120 you're part of the machine and you got to make 0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:52.719 it work, and you know, you get respect. And when 0:49:52.719 --> 0:49:54.920 you're told how to do something, do it their way 0:49:55.000 --> 0:49:56.080 until it's your place. 0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:59.720 Don't don't undermine the boss. 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:03.080 Ever, you're the assistant and I could be an assistant 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:04.600 tomorrow anytime. 0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:08.920 What kind of records were they cutting? Were you gutting? 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:11.359 It was all? It was all twenty four track. It 0:50:11.400 --> 0:50:15.839 was all R and B and soul, you know, Philly soul. 0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:17.440 He cut a song a day. 0:50:17.480 --> 0:50:19.440 I mean it was always you know, you'd be tracking 0:50:19.480 --> 0:50:23.560 all the time, and then literally it got taken over 0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:25.440 by sugar Hill Records. 0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:29.400 Before sugar Hill. How do you end up touching the board? 0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.439 Oh, I mean I'm sitting I'm sitting to the left 0:50:34.440 --> 0:50:37.479 of Steve. Okay, I'm the assistant. And when he would 0:50:37.480 --> 0:50:39.799 get up, I said, it the board okay, and I'll 0:50:39.840 --> 0:50:41.920 just continue with what he was doing. So if we're 0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:44.200 doing vocals, I'm sitting there on the talkback, I'm riding 0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:47.239 and faders whatever. When we were when he when he 0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:49.640 was mixing, I'd have to pay attention and he'd say, okay, 0:50:49.680 --> 0:50:52.279 now you print the TV track in the instrumental. So 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:54.759 I'd have to watch what he did and do it, 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:57.279 and he'd watch me do it and he taught me. 0:50:57.719 --> 0:51:00.239 So he taught me to do it his way and 0:51:00.320 --> 0:51:01.240 it was very smart. 0:51:03.440 --> 0:51:06.160 So when did you have your first session alone behind 0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:06.560 the board. 0:51:08.000 --> 0:51:13.439 Ah, the first weekend I could sneak in. Uh, well, 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:15.719 I had the keys. Once I had the keys, you know, 0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:18.840 who knows what happened? I mean, as soon as I 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:20.840 had the keys, it was like the first no storm. 0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:23.040 Me and my band are in there sneaking in the record. 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:26.319 We would like cut some tracks in our basement, then 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:28.960 overdub guitars and vocals at the studio because we get 0:51:29.000 --> 0:51:31.719 away with it. It didn't really you know a vocal miight, 0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:34.719 you know, easy to get you know high from there. 0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:37.319 But uh no. My first session was with my mom. 0:51:37.440 --> 0:51:39.600 He let me have a day free to record my 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:41.759 mom an album with my mom, which was a lot 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:42.120 of fun. 0:51:43.440 --> 0:51:46.160 Okay. Usually when you're the low man on the totem 0:51:46.160 --> 0:51:49.600 poll at the studio, you're working like ninety hours a week. 0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:56.160 Yeah, I mean Mom would drop me off and then 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:59.640 picked me up after her gig at night, so a 0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:00.800 lot of time as you go up the street for 0:52:00.880 --> 0:52:04.439 Chinese you know whatever, nine ten, eleven o'clock late, and yeah, 0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:07.239 we worked late. I mean it was basically ten to 0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:10.640 ten every day. So if I was lucky, it was less. 0:52:10.640 --> 0:52:12.439 But I loved it. I didn't even look at the clock. 0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:13.879 When you're that age, you didn't look at the clock. 0:52:13.920 --> 0:52:15.600 Who cared I do? 0:52:15.719 --> 0:52:15.759 No? 0:52:16.000 --> 0:52:18.439 I mean, I like ten to seven, I can't go board, 0:52:19.040 --> 0:52:20.840 you know the nine hours. 0:52:21.320 --> 0:52:24.319 Okay, so how long before sugar Hill takes it off. 0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:29.399 It's a few years, It's like five, six years, and 0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:34.000 then they sell to to sugar Hill, and then it 0:52:34.040 --> 0:52:37.839 becomes a whole different thing. It's a whole different You're 0:52:37.840 --> 0:52:40.520 making different records then, and then yeah, you have two 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:44.600 studios now, And it was great. It was that experience. 0:52:45.200 --> 0:52:48.600 At that point I knew, you know, I was an engineer. 0:52:48.600 --> 0:52:52.319 I could handle it. And I mean I worked, you know. 0:52:52.480 --> 0:52:55.160 I mean they had sugar Hill, they did Rappers Delight 0:52:55.680 --> 0:52:57.600 and then that became a big hit. So then after 0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:00.839 that we started cutting everything. And one of the big 0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:04.120 things we did there was the Message by Grand Master Flash, 0:53:04.440 --> 0:53:07.360 which I sat with Steven engineered the whole thing and 0:53:07.440 --> 0:53:10.279 printed all a mixes and even ran mixes, and I 0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:13.080 became friends with Doug Wimbish and to this day we're 0:53:13.080 --> 0:53:14.720 all lifelong friends. 0:53:15.440 --> 0:53:18.520 Okay, those are different records. Those are great records. But 0:53:18.760 --> 0:53:21.120 is there any genre of music you will say no, 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:22.040 I won't mix that. 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:28.680 I don't really say no, But at this point, the 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:33.799 rap from that era, okay, those records, I was okay 0:53:33.840 --> 0:53:34.880 because I was part of it, you know, it was 0:53:34.920 --> 0:53:39.400 part of my upbringing right now, like the rap the 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:42.800 rapper those records. Now, it's like it doesn't really interest 0:53:42.880 --> 0:53:45.600 me because I think I had that early in my career. 0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:49.080 I need I need melody, I need musicality. Don't don't 0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:51.600 get me wrong. There's if it's a hit, it's got 0:53:51.600 --> 0:53:54.000 a great melody or a lyric, it's fine, but it's 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:57.520 not gonna be what I'm going to go for. You know, 0:53:58.200 --> 0:54:04.080 it's not my wheelhouse. Everything else jazz, rock, country, Western, 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:05.720 I do country and Western. 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:08.200 It doesn't matter. Good song is a good song. 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:11.560 I've had Slipknot in the morning and Michael Booble at 0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:12.600 night doesn't matter. 0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:16.279 Okay, So how long is it sugar Hill? And what 0:54:16.320 --> 0:54:17.160 do you do next? 0:54:19.360 --> 0:54:23.000 Well, after sugar Hill was only a couple of years. 0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:27.439 I literally got fired for using the studio at night 0:54:27.840 --> 0:54:32.000 without asking. I walked into Joe Robinson's office with the 0:54:32.040 --> 0:54:35.960 invoice and a check from the client, and I said, 0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:38.080 I didn't want to wake you up, because you know 0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:40.239 we had we were finishing latest client wanted to come 0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.000 into Look, can I book the room to do vocals 0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:44.040 between three am and six am? 0:54:44.560 --> 0:54:44.920 Okay? 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:48.520 And I handed them all at and still it was like, well, 0:54:48.560 --> 0:54:51.640 you use my room. You know, you did stuff without asking. Okay, 0:54:51.760 --> 0:54:53.520 I'm available twenty four hours that you and you're asked, 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:53.919 you're out. 0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:55.600 Of here, really okay? 0:54:56.880 --> 0:55:01.200 And and it was probably a blessing because after that 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:04.200 they weren't doing that great. I ended up going to 0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:06.440 New York and starting as an assistant. I went right 0:55:06.440 --> 0:55:11.280 back to nothing and became an assistant at a unique recording. 0:55:12.600 --> 0:55:14.520 How'd you literally get that job? You'd knock on a 0:55:14.560 --> 0:55:15.800 million doors. 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:20.000 No, some I had, you know, right after sugar Hill, 0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:23.759 my friends were doing stuff independently, and you know, some 0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:25.400 friends that I had worked with there said had me 0:55:25.600 --> 0:55:28.120 do some stuff with them, and they I don't know 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:32.200 who recommended it, but one of the sessions was a unique. 0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:34.280 So my first time there is I was working with them. 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:38.400 I met the owners and they were interested in you know, 0:55:38.440 --> 0:55:40.040 I told them what I did, and they was interested 0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:43.280 in hiring me, so they literally hired me on the spot. 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:45.840 I was happy, but I literally back to being an assistant. 0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:50.359 I remember working on a session in the b room 0:55:50.440 --> 0:55:53.879 on eight track. They had an eight track in that room, 0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:56.120 or they had an eight track machine. They also had 0:55:56.120 --> 0:56:00.200 a sixteen track. I remember working on that and on 0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:02.480 an older board, and you know you start back at 0:56:02.480 --> 0:56:03.000 the beginning. 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:06.880 So what were the steps of moving back up the ladder? 0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:10.880 It didn't take that long before am I. 0:56:11.200 --> 0:56:15.759 You know, my popularity increased and I was doing more 0:56:15.800 --> 0:56:19.480 and more, and literally as years went on with all 0:56:19.480 --> 0:56:22.759 the remixes with Arthur Baker and working with all these 0:56:22.880 --> 0:56:24.799 you know, other artists, I started, you know, getting some 0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:26.319 producers that just wanted to use me. 0:56:26.560 --> 0:56:30.439 A little bit slower. Wait, wait, you're the assistant. How 0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:33.040 do you end up becoming a remixer unique? 0:56:34.680 --> 0:56:36.799 Well, okay, you're an assistant. How do you become a 0:56:36.840 --> 0:56:42.120 popular engineer? Well by making rough mixes that they really 0:56:42.120 --> 0:56:45.480 get excited about. So how you got you know, how 0:56:45.600 --> 0:56:48.640 you get a fan base back then? Was Hey, client 0:56:48.680 --> 0:56:50.600 comes in to do a vocal overdub or a guitar 0:56:50.719 --> 0:56:53.400 or something, right, and you're the assistant or you're the 0:56:53.400 --> 0:56:55.919 engineer in a session. Well, you make a kick ass 0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:58.640 rough mix on their cassette form, and then they're like, man, 0:56:58.680 --> 0:56:59.319 this sounds cure. 0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:00.600 I got to use that guy again. 0:57:01.600 --> 0:57:03.680 And then they and then they tell their friend and 0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:05.600 then their friend comes in and you again, you make 0:57:05.640 --> 0:57:06.399 a great rough mix. 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:10.200 On the cassette and then oh I love this, And 0:57:10.239 --> 0:57:10.560 then the. 0:57:10.520 --> 0:57:13.480 Studio manager and the other engineers working there are all 0:57:13.520 --> 0:57:17.640 pissed off at you because you're making these roughs. He goes, well, 0:57:17.680 --> 0:57:20.080 you shouldn't be you know, you shouldn't be making a 0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:21.600 rough like that. Well, I just want to sound like 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:26.120 a record. So you know, they got well, you're making 0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:28.120 it harder for us. I'm like, well, then you need 0:57:28.120 --> 0:57:30.120 to work harder. I don't know, I only hear what. 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:31.880 I just want to sell, like a hit record whatever. 0:57:32.520 --> 0:57:34.440 So you know, it wasn't about just do a vocal, 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:35.760 make a quick mix and give it to him. No, 0:57:36.640 --> 0:57:39.080 do whatever OVERB you're gonna do and make it sound 0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:41.360 good for him, because that's what you do. 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:42.560 I mean, that's like your job. 0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:46.160 So I really enjoyed that aspect of it, and that's 0:57:46.200 --> 0:57:48.640 what opened up all the doors because then they all want, 0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:49.360 Oh I want Chris. 0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:51.280 Chris. Chris is the guy. Oh I need Chris. 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:54.040 And then all of a sudden, you know, producers are like, yeah, 0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:55.760 Chris is the guy. Chris is gonna work on this, 0:57:57.880 --> 0:57:59.760 and that that got me to doing more stuff. 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.600 Yeah, how long did you work it unique before you 0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:04.360 went Independent or where'd you go next? 0:58:05.680 --> 0:58:08.160 Well, yeah, while I was working Unique that I started 0:58:08.280 --> 0:58:12.480 also working at other studios, Hit Factory with Troy. 0:58:13.680 --> 0:58:14.680 I really liked Hit. 0:58:14.560 --> 0:58:18.120 Factory and and Eddie Jermon owner really wanted me and 0:58:18.160 --> 0:58:20.720 my brothers over there. He'd do anything to get us there, 0:58:21.280 --> 0:58:24.400 so they whatever I wanted. So I would work a 0:58:24.440 --> 0:58:27.000 lot of and a Hit Factory because a lot of 0:58:27.040 --> 0:58:29.280 the clients wanted to up They wanted to upgrade. You know, 0:58:29.280 --> 0:58:31.200 the clients wanted to go to Hit Factory is beautiful 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:34.760 and uh, all the all the big artists worked at 0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:37.680 the Hit Factory, so I did more there. The powder Station, 0:58:37.760 --> 0:58:40.200 I mean the power station. We called the powder station 0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:43.600 for another reason. I got to really I can't imagine 0:58:43.600 --> 0:58:46.800 what that might be exactly, So I still call it 0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:50.600 the powder station because you know, Skeletor would be my 0:58:50.720 --> 0:58:53.600 uh my duck, my dealer, and he'd always be there 0:58:53.640 --> 0:58:55.240 for in the morning when we ran out of blow. 0:58:56.160 --> 0:58:59.480 So it beat Skeletor, but Hit a Hit Factory, Electric 0:58:59.560 --> 0:59:02.480 Lady was so the only real real rooms that I 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:04.920 got familiar with was the old Media Sound and then 0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:09.760 Hit Factory and then Lady and of course Unique. After 0:59:09.760 --> 0:59:14.160 a while, i'd you know, after I don't know, late 0:59:14.200 --> 0:59:16.800 eighties or mid eighties, I was already out of Unique 0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:18.200 and just just a hit factory. 0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:25.440 Okay. When you went to Unique, you were on salary yep, okay, 0:59:25.840 --> 0:59:28.880 and you were doing stuff at the Hit Factory and 0:59:28.960 --> 0:59:32.120 the so called powder station on your own free time. 0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:40.560 Right when I started going independent from Unique, I now, 0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:44.800 I'm trying to remember my first like manager Stu Silfin, 0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:48.280 my first lawyer. He would get me involved in some 0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:52.600 of his connections to get different clients. So if I 0:59:52.640 --> 0:59:55.040 went to the Hit Factory, I could steal any client, 0:59:55.200 --> 0:59:58.920 and people knew I was the ultimate client thief because 0:59:58.920 --> 1:00:01.200 once I go in there, they can't go in there 1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:05.280 because me and Tommy, well I will first. I always 1:00:05.280 --> 1:00:07.400 grabbed the client, and once they work with me, they 1:00:07.440 --> 1:00:11.560 don't work with anybody else. So I was getting a 1:00:11.600 --> 1:00:14.440 little bit of that reputation for doing that. But because I 1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:18.040 had different energy and I was a little bit more experienced, 1:00:18.320 --> 1:00:19.440 and you. 1:00:19.400 --> 1:00:20.560 Know, I wanted to be in charge. 1:00:20.600 --> 1:00:22.400 I want it to be my way, So people just 1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:24.840 liked my way, like like when you go to I 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:25.400 don't know, the. 1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:28.080 Subplace and Mike's Mike's way or whatever. 1:00:29.680 --> 1:00:31.080 I just heard it my head a certain way, and 1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:32.960 I make everything go that way and people liked it, 1:00:33.040 --> 1:00:35.480 so that caught me those gigs. 1:00:36.080 --> 1:00:38.680 Was there a specific record that was a breakthrough for you. 1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:46.040 I would think that Living in America that I did 1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:50.840 with Dan was a good door kicker. There was a 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.280 lot of the remixes like let the Music Play and 1:00:53.320 --> 1:00:56.240 some Shannon stuff. There was some of those one offs 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:59.400 that I did with Carl Sturk and Devin Rodgers. Those 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:03.640 did well well. Some of the remixes that did with 1:01:03.760 --> 1:01:07.280 Arthur got me visually in there. But yeah, I mean 1:01:07.280 --> 1:01:09.640 the Living in America that really started to open the door, 1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:12.760 because you know, I'd worked with Dan Hartman, so as 1:01:12.760 --> 1:01:14.720 soon as I met Dan Hartman as a producer, I 1:01:14.760 --> 1:01:16.440 did everything for Dan and he. 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:17.720 Had a hell of a run. 1:01:19.120 --> 1:01:21.720 And unchained my heart by Joe came out after that, 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:25.120 and then we did Tina Turn a Foreign Affair and 1:01:25.480 --> 1:01:28.520 you know, and a few other things that we did. 1:01:29.840 --> 1:01:32.640 And then when the Windward thing came in with Russ 1:01:32.960 --> 1:01:35.040 and I was there, I was doing it, and that's 1:01:35.240 --> 1:01:41.440 how Tommy got involved. So I eventually had tom and 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:45.040 Jeff both there. I both my brothers come to Unique 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:48.280 to work with me, and the owner really. 1:01:48.040 --> 1:01:50.400 Couldn't do anything about it. I love Bobby and Joey Inn. 1:01:50.720 --> 1:01:52.800 They just went with it because you know what Chris 1:01:52.880 --> 1:01:55.160 is doing great for He's bringing great clients and yeah, 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:57.760 whatever he wants to do. So I brought my brothers 1:01:57.760 --> 1:02:00.920 in and they fast tracked into working with me, and 1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:01.960 they fast tracked it to. 1:02:01.920 --> 1:02:02.640 The bigger gigs. 1:02:02.640 --> 1:02:05.520 They didn't go through the channels, they didn't go up 1:02:05.520 --> 1:02:07.520 the stairs, they just took the elevator. I went with me, 1:02:08.520 --> 1:02:13.120 so you know, that's how Tommy got the gig. And 1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:16.240 I'd be producing a band and Tommy's there assisting and 1:02:16.320 --> 1:02:19.400 Jeff's they're assisting and we're all screwed around because I 1:02:19.480 --> 1:02:21.680 was a bit of a mad scientist. So like when 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:23.840 the Lord Algie's are there, well, they're in charge whatever 1:02:23.880 --> 1:02:24.840 they want to do, and they're. 1:02:24.680 --> 1:02:27.000 Having fun and they're enjoying it. 1:02:27.040 --> 1:02:31.280 And it's great fun every day experimenting producing because when 1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:32.680 I was producing, it was just a free throw. I 1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:36.800 had so much fun. And with Windwood it was like 1:02:37.640 --> 1:02:40.960 every day. With Tommy, I'm like, man, because I couldn't 1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:44.120 wait for rusting it off the phone and sit there 1:02:44.160 --> 1:02:46.240 all day I had I had Dan at the other studio. 1:02:46.280 --> 1:02:49.600 I got to work on this other stuff. I didn't 1:02:49.600 --> 1:02:52.520 have the patience to sit around and wait. But Tommy 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:56.040 learned from me really quick on that, and I pushed it, pushed, 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.400 and I walked away from I didn't I didn't care 1:02:59.400 --> 1:03:00.800 if it was gonna do well or not. I just 1:03:00.840 --> 1:03:03.800 cared that my brother was gonna win, get this gig 1:03:04.560 --> 1:03:09.120 and boom. That's because it was for mom. Mom knew 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:11.240 I was doing it. I did it for Mom. I 1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:14.160 want to make sure that both of us now are equals. 1:03:14.560 --> 1:03:17.840 Like one record, he went from from nothing to where 1:03:17.880 --> 1:03:21.120 both equals, if not him being bigger because of that record. 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:32.680 Okay, so you're a remixer, how do you end up 1:03:32.720 --> 1:03:34.200 producing records? 1:03:34.800 --> 1:03:39.160 Well, I you know I. I was always involved in 1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:41.720 the production side of it, and everyone saw it, so 1:03:42.440 --> 1:03:45.040 I would have found. I found a band, I got 1:03:45.080 --> 1:03:47.320 it signed to Electra, I started producing it. Then Ultra 1:03:47.360 --> 1:03:50.240 gave me a couple more bands to produce. So eighty three, 1:03:50.360 --> 1:03:52.360 eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, I had a bunch 1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:55.600 of records. I produced band called Xavion, an Electra, a band, 1:03:55.640 --> 1:03:58.280 an artist called Alan Vega. He was the half of 1:03:58.280 --> 1:04:01.520 the art band's Suicide. He was the singer. I produced 1:04:01.600 --> 1:04:04.120 a record for him. I could even sing. But I 1:04:04.280 --> 1:04:07.040 came up with great tracks with Rick Acaystik and did 1:04:07.080 --> 1:04:09.960 that broke a band called World of the Glance. 1:04:10.000 --> 1:04:14.040 I got signed to Elektra and we made a record. 1:04:14.440 --> 1:04:16.120 And then I had people in coming and just wanted 1:04:16.160 --> 1:04:19.920 me to produce their stuff with them. And you know, 1:04:20.000 --> 1:04:21.560 they didn't have a lyric and say, hey, cut a 1:04:21.560 --> 1:04:24.360 track to this. Or there was an album called beat 1:04:24.400 --> 1:04:29.480 Street that that Arthur was cutting for, you know, for 1:04:29.560 --> 1:04:31.320 the movie. And I would just come up with these 1:04:31.320 --> 1:04:34.960 songs for b Street with him, you know, and just 1:04:35.040 --> 1:04:38.360 kept going. So I love that side of it. What's 1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:43.520 the key to being a good producer making decisions? 1:04:44.160 --> 1:04:48.520 It's that simple. But no, it's not just that. 1:04:49.560 --> 1:04:52.560 Being a good producer is about ninety percent bedside matter. 1:04:52.920 --> 1:04:53.280 Okay. 1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:55.640 So you have to win over the artists and show 1:04:55.680 --> 1:04:59.240 them that you're confident and that you know what they want, okay, 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:03.440 and you know what deliver it, and making decisions is everything. 1:05:03.480 --> 1:05:07.720 You waffle one second, that's a problem. So whether it's 1:05:07.720 --> 1:05:10.160 a vocal that's good or a drum sound or drum 1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:12.720 fill or guitar lift. Yes, yes, that's good, No, that's 1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:13.040 not good. 1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:13.479 Do it again. 1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:17.240 Being able to make those snap decisions and have a 1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:18.480 big vision, that's what. 1:05:18.480 --> 1:05:19.360 Makes a great producer. 1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:21.200 You could always go back and said, you know what, 1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:23.240 let's do those guitars over today. 1:05:23.440 --> 1:05:26.000 I think what we did yesterday, I think we rushed it. 1:05:26.080 --> 1:05:26.640 Let's go again. 1:05:28.280 --> 1:05:29.960 You got to make a decision, and you got to 1:05:30.040 --> 1:05:32.040 you know, you have to drive run the ship. You 1:05:32.080 --> 1:05:34.680 have to be in control. Some people work really fast. 1:05:34.880 --> 1:05:38.240 Other people work at a glacial past. If I hire you, 1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:41.600 what kind of speed are we working at? At light 1:05:41.720 --> 1:05:44.240 at lightning, it's like back in the future when it 1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:48.080 hits eighty eight miles an hour. You can't work as 1:05:48.120 --> 1:05:52.520 fast as possible because think about this, all right, a song, 1:05:56.560 --> 1:06:00.760 a song can get tiring so fast, okay, it's it 1:06:01.120 --> 1:06:03.320 can spoil so quick. So you got to be in 1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:06.040 the heat of the action. So when you record a song, 1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:08.560 create a song, the quicker you do it, the more 1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:10.640 you keep all that energy in there, the more you 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:13.800 labor over it, the more it becomes just like digging 1:06:13.880 --> 1:06:14.360 a grave. 1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:17.680 It's just it's a drag and it's it's just human nature. 1:06:17.960 --> 1:06:20.120 The more you hear it, the more you either like 1:06:20.160 --> 1:06:22.080 it the way you have it, you have you lose. 1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:24.240 All all all concept of it. 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:27.880 So I would I like to work fast and then 1:06:28.640 --> 1:06:30.400 put the song on the side a couple of weeks later, 1:06:30.400 --> 1:06:32.480 put it up to mix it, and then you know, 1:06:32.560 --> 1:06:35.600 clean it up and go. I mean, look, get that impression, 1:06:35.680 --> 1:06:39.400 make that timestamp. But sometimes people will work at a 1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:43.440 glacier pace and the song did not improve from the demo. 1:06:43.840 --> 1:06:46.560 It actually got worse and more boring. I want to 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:48.960 keep the energy, you know, what makes the song interesting, 1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:49.560 the story. 1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:56.560 And what about recording live? Everybody there or everybody uh separately. 1:06:58.440 --> 1:07:02.320 I mean I think the days, you know, the days 1:07:02.320 --> 1:07:04.240 of cutting live, and I've done a bunch of that 1:07:04.360 --> 1:07:06.840 and I've seen it work. You get if you get 1:07:06.840 --> 1:07:09.640 the A team out there, I mean the A team 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:14.200 you can cut you live, okay. And but mostly what 1:07:14.240 --> 1:07:17.240 we do is the drummers out in the room okay, 1:07:17.760 --> 1:07:20.920 everybody's in the control room playing and we get the 1:07:21.320 --> 1:07:23.560 bones of what's going to work for the song okay, 1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:26.320 and we just get to we get the drums on it, 1:07:26.640 --> 1:07:28.200 and a lot of time we just take. We'll make 1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:30.760 the drummer, just play a little drum loop okay of 1:07:30.800 --> 1:07:32.840 the pattern, and we'll build the track on that and 1:07:32.840 --> 1:07:33.600 it puts drums on. 1:07:33.720 --> 1:07:37.840 Last. Most of the records I produced that were built 1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:38.320 that way. 1:07:38.600 --> 1:07:41.840 Drums are the last thing we put on because everything 1:07:41.880 --> 1:07:45.080 was built around good timing okay, almost like a grid, 1:07:45.240 --> 1:07:48.320 so it was easier and records. 1:07:48.320 --> 1:07:50.520 Now. More of the stuff I make now it's done 1:07:50.560 --> 1:07:51.919 that way. 1:07:52.480 --> 1:07:54.480 And because of the technology we have, we could just 1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:57.360 send files to a bass player here, guitar player there, 1:07:57.760 --> 1:08:00.520 a drummer here. I mean the stuff I news, I 1:08:00.560 --> 1:08:03.520 said the guy you know, it'll be like a drum 1:08:03.560 --> 1:08:06.120 loop I created with a machine and have him planned 1:08:06.160 --> 1:08:09.120 in his house to send me to files whatever it takes. 1:08:10.120 --> 1:08:13.040 Okay, you talked about your lawyer. To what degree have 1:08:13.200 --> 1:08:16.120 you had a manager or have the gigs just come 1:08:16.160 --> 1:08:17.719 to you as or somebody in between. 1:08:20.920 --> 1:08:23.519 I've I've always had a manager. I mean I had 1:08:23.520 --> 1:08:27.720 a brief run without one. When I first moved to 1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:31.680 LA I got a manager named Steve Moyer and that 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:36.040 was his first engineer mixer client, and he was the 1:08:36.040 --> 1:08:40.200 first manager of a mixer, an engineer, and we had 1:08:40.360 --> 1:08:44.080 a hell of a run because he knew, you know, 1:08:44.120 --> 1:08:46.040 he worked at labels. He knew these people said hey, 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:49.040 yeah right, Chris set in the files, give me a shot. 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:51.639 So look, you're the new kid in town. Everybody wants 1:08:51.680 --> 1:08:54.840 to try you. And that worked out great. And then 1:08:54.880 --> 1:08:57.479 I Leah Fahlberg, and then I went back to Bennett 1:08:57.520 --> 1:09:02.600 Kaufman who worked for Steve, and. 1:09:00.800 --> 1:09:01.920 Now I have Stephen Rosen. 1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:06.600 And it's about just putting me in positions that that 1:09:06.680 --> 1:09:08.839 I don't get into. I mean, most of the clients 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:11.200 text or call me or email me, you know, the 1:09:11.280 --> 1:09:15.840 repeat customers, they just come to me direct. But but 1:09:16.000 --> 1:09:19.200 you know, with the manager, you get you get clients 1:09:19.200 --> 1:09:23.240 that you would not normally get, situations that are different 1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:25.640 people you don't have a connection with. 1:09:26.600 --> 1:09:30.280 Okay, in the old days, the sixties and seventies, a 1:09:30.320 --> 1:09:33.040 lot of times the engineer cut the record, mixed it. 1:09:34.280 --> 1:09:37.519 So how did that change? 1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:43.800 Bob clear Mountain changed it good. Yeah, it was like 1:09:43.880 --> 1:09:47.680 that until Bob Clearmountain or Michael Brower. I mean, I 1:09:47.760 --> 1:09:50.840 just say, Bob Clearmount Broward would probably disagree with me. 1:09:52.680 --> 1:09:56.240 There was a handful of situations where the mixer didn't 1:09:56.240 --> 1:09:58.920 have his credit on the record. And but For me, 1:10:00.080 --> 1:10:02.679 it was Bob okay, so we just wanted to clear 1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:07.280 the mountain. We wanted a shot, so he became the gunslinger. Yes, 1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:09.439 most of the engineer mixed the record. That was part 1:10:09.439 --> 1:10:12.160 of your job. The mix was the easy part. You'd 1:10:12.160 --> 1:10:14.240 make the record and when the last over deebleon on it, 1:10:14.360 --> 1:10:17.200 you do your twiddling and that was it. 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:18.880 That was done. That's how I. 1:10:18.840 --> 1:10:22.240 Learned that the engineer mixed it after the last over though, 1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:25.960 and that's it goes to mastering. But then we move 1:10:26.040 --> 1:10:30.880 on to Bob clear mountain, taking a song and mixing it. 1:10:31.880 --> 1:10:35.160 And the great thing about that for me and I 1:10:35.160 --> 1:10:38.200 think for him, is that you get the file, you 1:10:38.240 --> 1:10:40.559 get the tape, you put it up, you get your 1:10:40.600 --> 1:10:42.280 first impression, and you go with it. 1:10:42.560 --> 1:10:44.400 Okay. It's like a first date. Okay. 1:10:45.200 --> 1:10:47.240 All the good stuff you ever want happens on that 1:10:47.280 --> 1:10:49.760 one day, so you only have to care about it. 1:10:49.760 --> 1:10:51.479 You don't have to live with it for months. Okay. 1:10:52.240 --> 1:10:54.320 So if you compare it to a first date, you 1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:56.120 don't have to meet the family, the brothers and sisters, 1:10:56.160 --> 1:11:00.280 the cousins, the Christmases, the thanksgivings. You just it is 1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:03.800 have fun that one day it's over. So your first 1:11:03.800 --> 1:11:07.040 impression on the song is always the best. So you 1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:10.120 have no preconceived notions and you just go with it. 1:11:10.160 --> 1:11:14.160 And I think that is the most successful thing a 1:11:14.200 --> 1:11:17.799 producer can have, is that mixer who only hears it 1:11:17.840 --> 1:11:21.000 the first time when he puts it up, and then 1:11:21.200 --> 1:11:24.879 that's the great partnership between music creation and music finishing. 1:11:25.720 --> 1:11:29.400 Is that first impression mixer that only hears it, and 1:11:29.600 --> 1:11:32.040 his impression usually is what makes the song work. 1:11:33.360 --> 1:11:36.720 Okay, you know you're gonna mix a record. To what 1:11:36.840 --> 1:11:39.719 degree do the producers or the act give you input 1:11:40.200 --> 1:11:42.720 or what degree is Chris, we did it here? It 1:11:42.800 --> 1:11:43.719 is do your magic. 1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:50.280 Yeah, well there one hundred percent. There's I have clients 1:11:50.320 --> 1:11:51.960 that just Chris, just do your magic. I know what 1:11:52.000 --> 1:11:53.760 you do, I know what you're gonna do, I know 1:11:53.840 --> 1:11:54.479 what to expect. 1:11:54.520 --> 1:11:54.920 Just do it. 1:11:55.439 --> 1:11:59.200 And then there's clients and you have artists that took 1:11:59.240 --> 1:12:03.040 home a copy of the Roff and you listen to 1:12:03.080 --> 1:12:06.560 it two, three, four, five, ten, twenty times. That's the 1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:09.599 kiss of death. Then you have that marriage the artist 1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:11.360 has with the ruff, and you got to beat the ruff. 1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:14.320 You gotta supersize it. Okay, so you're a bit shackled 1:12:14.520 --> 1:12:18.080 to that version. Look, once you heard a whole lot 1:12:18.080 --> 1:12:19.800 of love ten times, do you want to hear it 1:12:19.800 --> 1:12:23.559 any differently? So look, the artist gets the first copy 1:12:23.600 --> 1:12:25.880 of the finished song, listen to it ten times, and 1:12:25.920 --> 1:12:28.519 you go to remix it. Well, if if you change 1:12:28.520 --> 1:12:30.960 it too much, you're like, well can you listen to 1:12:31.000 --> 1:12:37.400 the ruff? And you know the four words I hate 1:12:37.400 --> 1:12:42.280 hearing are let's check the ruff. That means that you 1:12:42.280 --> 1:12:45.120 know there's something that I remember, and that takes the 1:12:45.160 --> 1:12:46.360 fun out of mixing, trust me. 1:12:46.760 --> 1:12:48.280 So the first thing I check is like, are you 1:12:48.280 --> 1:12:50.000 guys married to the rouff? How many times have you 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:50.479 heard with it? 1:12:50.760 --> 1:12:52.200 Just want to know what kind of hell of getting 1:12:52.200 --> 1:12:55.639 myself in on because it's really no fun just matching 1:12:55.640 --> 1:12:58.200 the ruff and picking up where someone left off, because 1:12:58.240 --> 1:12:59.000 that's not mixing. 1:12:59.360 --> 1:13:01.439 You know what I'm saying. Mixing is when you have 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:02.479 free reign, do what you want. 1:13:02.720 --> 1:13:04.599 Because a lot of times I make a different arrangement 1:13:05.000 --> 1:13:07.240 or I turn stuff off that I think is excessive. 1:13:08.560 --> 1:13:10.400 You know, sometimes they put frecking three pounds of a 1:13:10.439 --> 1:13:12.680 lord in a one pound bag and it sucks, So 1:13:12.720 --> 1:13:13.960 I take half of it out and then all of 1:13:13.960 --> 1:13:16.439 a sudden the song comes back, or I make eight 1:13:16.560 --> 1:13:19.519 arrangements or changes. I have free will, I love free will, 1:13:19.560 --> 1:13:22.679 free willie. You know they're not gonna do something different 1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:24.280 that can show you what I think it should do, 1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:27.320 or edits or shortening it. Some of these songs are 1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:28.320 five and a half minutes long. 1:13:28.360 --> 1:13:29.040 What are you kidding? 1:13:29.400 --> 1:13:31.839 No one's gonna care. They're looking at their watch, their bored. 1:13:32.400 --> 1:13:34.200 Come on, hurry up and get us to the goddamn 1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:37.960 corse before I fall asleep. So I try to bring 1:13:38.000 --> 1:13:39.760 that to it, you know, I try to bring that. 1:13:39.840 --> 1:13:42.160 Say look, here's what I think for your single three 1:13:42.160 --> 1:13:45.439 minutes to fifteen seconds ware bamp, thank you man, want 1:13:45.439 --> 1:13:46.120 to hear it again? 1:13:47.640 --> 1:13:51.839 How often do you finish the mix and the producer 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:55.439 in the ax say, great, we're running with it, as 1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:59.080 opposed to, oh can we change this? Change that. 1:14:01.240 --> 1:14:04.840 I'd say ninety five percent they're good with it, and 1:14:05.200 --> 1:14:08.040 the other five percent or maybe is it eight percent, 1:14:08.560 --> 1:14:10.760 we'll have changes. I mean, we live in a world. Now, 1:14:10.800 --> 1:14:12.639 I'll do a mix. I'll send that out on MP three. 1:14:13.840 --> 1:14:16.720 You know, I just I said that a specific way 1:14:17.400 --> 1:14:23.360 for a reference in a common format. Okay, and I'll 1:14:23.960 --> 1:14:27.720 wait to hear back. Okay. Sometimes it's days. Sometimes it's 1:14:27.720 --> 1:14:31.760 weeks before they even comment. My good clients, it's it's 1:14:31.840 --> 1:14:35.519 usually within ten minutes, okay. And if the artist here, 1:14:35.680 --> 1:14:39.400 obviously we close it right then and there. That's how 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:39.840 it works. 1:14:39.880 --> 1:14:42.519 So do you want the artists there or you definitely 1:14:42.600 --> 1:14:43.840 don't want the artists there. 1:14:45.360 --> 1:14:49.559 There's certain situations where their ownership is the only way 1:14:49.600 --> 1:14:53.400 it gets closed. With green Day, they have to be 1:14:53.439 --> 1:14:56.240 here to hear it, and then if there's like a 1:14:56.320 --> 1:14:59.280 two percent change later, that's fine, but they have to 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:01.880 be here to approve and check it. And I like that, 1:15:02.479 --> 1:15:05.559 and I find that with Dave Matthews. I find that 1:15:05.640 --> 1:15:08.840 with Look with Dwight Yoakum one hundred percent. He's got 1:15:08.880 --> 1:15:11.519 to be here with this little clip, you know, he 1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:14.680 has we have a way of doing things, and you know, 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:16.080 it's stuff I work with John Shanks. 1:15:16.160 --> 1:15:18.479 You got to be here. I prefer it. Okay. 1:15:18.520 --> 1:15:21.679 It goes quicker that way because they're here, they own it. 1:15:21.680 --> 1:15:23.880 It's over, okay. And if something comes up later, we 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:26.680 have a recall rally. We just you know, tweak a 1:15:26.680 --> 1:15:31.240 couple of songs. So, but there's a situation where I'd 1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:33.400 prefer to mix the whole album, have the band come 1:15:33.439 --> 1:15:35.720 in for one day, review a couple of songs they 1:15:35.720 --> 1:15:37.800 want to change it, and then knock it out. 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:44.040 Okay, So how long does it take to do a mix? 1:15:46.360 --> 1:15:50.519 A couple hours? It depends on how messy the song is, 1:15:50.560 --> 1:15:54.000 how well put together it is. First you have to 1:15:54.080 --> 1:15:56.439 untangle it and make it manageable. So yeah, it can 1:15:56.520 --> 1:15:58.920 be a couple of hours. It just depends on how 1:15:59.000 --> 1:16:01.599 much focus I have. Because we live in a world 1:16:01.640 --> 1:16:03.760 where there's so many distractions, you got to shut it 1:16:03.760 --> 1:16:06.559 all off and do the job. So if I come 1:16:06.600 --> 1:16:08.280 in and shut it all off, which is what I 1:16:08.360 --> 1:16:10.920 usually do, I just stay focused until it's done. I 1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:13.439 don't leave the room until I finish it. Then I 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:15.519 check my phone, then I do that. You know, if 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:18.080 I have distractions, your phone calls, it's slows the process. 1:16:17.760 --> 1:16:21.040 Then, and how many can you do in a day 1:16:21.080 --> 1:16:22.799 before you just can't do it anymore? 1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:28.800 You know, if I'm mixing an album where there's similarities 1:16:28.880 --> 1:16:32.360 in the recording from song to song two or three, 1:16:32.439 --> 1:16:35.479 sometimes four, I mean a cheap trick record, I've done 1:16:35.479 --> 1:16:38.800 seven in one day. Because you know, there because the 1:16:38.920 --> 1:16:42.599 recording is so similar that it's almost like a live album, 1:16:42.640 --> 1:16:44.360 you know, because a lot of it's very the same, 1:16:44.920 --> 1:16:47.479 So it's just you know, different transitions, so. 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:50.080 It can happen that way. 1:16:50.439 --> 1:16:54.040 How often do you finish it and the act want 1:16:54.240 --> 1:16:58.560 changes that you don't agree with? Then what do you say? 1:17:00.000 --> 1:17:02.639 I mean that, Like I said in the you know 1:17:02.680 --> 1:17:06.040 five to seven percent range, there's changes. Do I agree 1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:10.120 with them? Well, a lot of times no. Sometimes it's 1:17:10.120 --> 1:17:13.840 just personal taste or it's an arrangement thing. But when 1:17:13.840 --> 1:17:16.320 there are things I don't agree with, then I know, well, 1:17:16.360 --> 1:17:19.240 you know what I If you want that much mayonnaise 1:17:19.240 --> 1:17:22.200 on your French fries, okay, here you go. I try 1:17:22.240 --> 1:17:23.960 to talk them out of it, or I try to, 1:17:24.160 --> 1:17:26.000 you know, make the change where I'm happy with it 1:17:26.040 --> 1:17:30.559 still for me, you know, the mixer knows how he 1:17:30.640 --> 1:17:32.760 can make all these elements works and knows what the 1:17:32.760 --> 1:17:35.280 give and take is. That's why you hire me because 1:17:35.280 --> 1:17:38.120 I have the experience to know how I can make 1:17:38.160 --> 1:17:40.000 all these puzzle pieces coexist. 1:17:40.120 --> 1:17:40.400 Okay. 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:43.960 And sometimes the minutia from a guitar player or a 1:17:44.040 --> 1:17:46.760 drummer or a bass player or whatever, it's always just 1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:50.599 their personal interest being boosted or something that really doesn't 1:17:50.640 --> 1:17:54.920 help the mix, okay, or maybe something is because they're 1:17:55.080 --> 1:17:58.439 hearing impaired or just something they heard in a rough mix. 1:17:58.520 --> 1:18:01.400 So I'm looking at the big picture, what makes the 1:18:01.400 --> 1:18:02.080 song work? 1:18:02.240 --> 1:18:03.679 Okay? And is this going to help? 1:18:05.320 --> 1:18:08.080 Okay? Let's go back to the producing end. To what 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:12.040 degree do you tell them to change the song, rearrange 1:18:12.080 --> 1:18:14.439 the song or you're more just getting it down and 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:15.880 making decisions. 1:18:17.760 --> 1:18:19.080 I mean, we get it down and I take the 1:18:19.080 --> 1:18:21.280 file home and I change the arrangement, I change parts, 1:18:21.280 --> 1:18:25.439 I'll replay things. Okay, with a young artists that up producing, 1:18:26.080 --> 1:18:28.640 I mean I'll take his demo and I'll cut it 1:18:28.720 --> 1:18:31.080 up and change the arrangement and we'll replay all the parts. 1:18:32.960 --> 1:18:35.000 So yeah, I mean while we're in here working on 1:18:35.040 --> 1:18:38.519 it together, we'll work on the arrangement right away. I mean, 1:18:38.520 --> 1:18:40.400 the most important thing is the arrangement and the key. 1:18:40.840 --> 1:18:44.360 Everything else is just minutia. It doesn't matter. A melody, 1:18:44.640 --> 1:18:47.240 a tempo, and an arrangement. Those are the first three 1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:51.839 building blocks of a song. After that it's all personal 1:18:51.960 --> 1:18:53.760 taste or what you want to do to the song, 1:18:54.840 --> 1:18:58.320 and then that's what works. 1:18:58.680 --> 1:18:59.719 And what about lyrics. 1:19:01.560 --> 1:19:04.479 Lyrics are important and all but lyrics are Lyrics are 1:19:04.560 --> 1:19:08.679 very important, but they're also a personal journey because most 1:19:08.680 --> 1:19:11.640 of the lyrics are about, uh, something can happen in 1:19:11.640 --> 1:19:14.760 your life, Okay. So I try to help them make 1:19:14.760 --> 1:19:17.600 sure that the lyrics make sense and we can understand 1:19:17.640 --> 1:19:20.679 the lyrics. Okay, And sometimes I change to say will 1:19:20.680 --> 1:19:22.519 this be better? Doesn't it mean the same if you 1:19:22.560 --> 1:19:25.160 say this versus that, because what you're saying there is 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:26.240 a little bit of a tongue tie. 1:19:26.720 --> 1:19:28.559 Is this easier? Does this sing better? 1:19:28.840 --> 1:19:31.679 So I'll change it with them if it sings better, 1:19:31.680 --> 1:19:34.720 if it gets the point across. And then there's the 1:19:34.840 --> 1:19:38.599 problems where if a song has fucking it do you have? 1:19:38.720 --> 1:19:42.439 Can you say something else? No? Just beep it, dude. No, 1:19:43.800 --> 1:19:45.599 if the song's called fuck the world, can you say 1:19:45.600 --> 1:19:47.760 something else? Because that's gonna cause you a problem, no 1:19:47.760 --> 1:19:49.760 matter what about judging it? 1:19:50.280 --> 1:19:50.599 All right? 1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:54.880 Great, fine, whatever you know? That's you know in a mix. 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:57.840 So I always encourage ours. If you're gonna say fuck 1:19:57.920 --> 1:20:00.240 or you're gonna swear, come on, let's at least have 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:02.040 an alternate lyric for the Bible belt. 1:20:03.680 --> 1:20:07.680 Okay, how often you put up a mix and you 1:20:07.760 --> 1:20:10.000 hear a hit and you know it when you hear. 1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:15.320 It A lot, a lot, I mean a lot. I 1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:18.599 can tell that these puzzle pieces are working. 1:20:19.280 --> 1:20:22.080 And I call it the fly paper effect. 1:20:22.360 --> 1:20:25.280 Okay, If I can walk out of the room, get 1:20:25.320 --> 1:20:28.640 on the phone, hear the news, hear another song, and 1:20:28.760 --> 1:20:32.200 still remember this one, that's the beginnings of a hit 1:20:32.280 --> 1:20:34.439 for me. If I wake up the next morning after 1:20:34.479 --> 1:20:37.479 hearing a bunch of other things and still remember that song, 1:20:38.479 --> 1:20:41.360 it's a hit. It's like the bottom being song with 1:20:41.439 --> 1:20:43.600 Green Day. But no, no, no, no, no, no no no 1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:46.280 no no no, like no matter what, I can still 1:20:46.320 --> 1:20:51.240 hear that melody botta bing botta bing botta boo's. 1:20:51.400 --> 1:20:51.960 I don't know why. 1:20:52.000 --> 1:20:54.040 It's a stupid part, but it's it's to catch you 1:20:54.080 --> 1:20:57.840 as shit. So if I can remember that, then I 1:20:57.880 --> 1:20:59.360 feel it it stands a chance. 1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:02.320 How'd you get to work with Green Day? 1:21:04.280 --> 1:21:06.880 I mean I was working with Rob way back. 1:21:07.040 --> 1:21:08.360 I was working with Rob Canvalla. 1:21:08.479 --> 1:21:11.760 He had this band called Kars Flowers that was the 1:21:12.000 --> 1:21:15.280 makings of Maroon five, and we started our friendship there 1:21:15.720 --> 1:21:18.080 and we moved through a bunch of different artists and 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:21.240 then this Nimrod album came along and he wanted me 1:21:21.280 --> 1:21:23.840 to take a whack at it for him, and and 1:21:23.840 --> 1:21:26.040 the rest is history, I mean, and then we worked 1:21:26.040 --> 1:21:27.680 on a bunch together. They took a break from me 1:21:27.840 --> 1:21:30.200 for a record or two, and then they came back 1:21:30.880 --> 1:21:36.519 again recently and it's working for them. And I personally 1:21:36.560 --> 1:21:39.360 think when a band creates a team that worked, stick 1:21:39.439 --> 1:21:42.240 with it, because those other flavors of the week don't 1:21:42.240 --> 1:21:44.800 know where the bodies are buried and don't know how 1:21:44.840 --> 1:21:48.160 to put those puzzle pieces together. Okay, they just they're 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:49.879 a shinier new hot fudged Sunday. 1:21:51.280 --> 1:21:53.320 So how does it feel when someone says we're going 1:21:53.400 --> 1:21:54.280 to go another way? 1:21:56.040 --> 1:21:56.920 I have no issue. 1:21:56.920 --> 1:22:00.200 I don't take it personally, Okay, I'll say, like, look, 1:22:00.320 --> 1:22:03.920 let's do this. Give me the song that your guys 1:22:04.000 --> 1:22:06.080 gonna do, and at least let me send you in 1:22:06.120 --> 1:22:08.840 a mix that my mix, and you guys can blind 1:22:08.960 --> 1:22:11.799 you know, blind test it. Just do a blind tasting. Whatever, 1:22:11.960 --> 1:22:14.760 pick the winner. That's happened once in a while, and 1:22:14.840 --> 1:22:18.280 as long as it's fair, it's a you know, as 1:22:18.280 --> 1:22:20.920 long as it's fair and everything's the same volume, you 1:22:21.080 --> 1:22:24.320 let the artist pick maybe maybe the new guy's better. 1:22:24.439 --> 1:22:26.680 You know, I have no I have no personal thing 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:27.240 about it. Yeah. 1:22:27.280 --> 1:22:29.840 I like to win, and I could be a real 1:22:29.920 --> 1:22:33.480 asshole about it, but I don't like to be discounted, 1:22:33.479 --> 1:22:35.840 like at least give me a chance, you know. With 1:22:35.880 --> 1:22:39.320 Peter Gabriel, I kept emailing him and by large, give 1:22:39.320 --> 1:22:42.320 me a chance to mix a song for free. I'll 1:22:42.360 --> 1:22:45.880 even pay you. I just want a mix on the record. 1:22:45.960 --> 1:22:47.880 Is it that hard to let me have a file? 1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:50.439 I just wanted a shot, that's all. 1:22:51.720 --> 1:22:53.200 Don't care. I just like Peter Gabriel. 1:23:00.120 --> 1:23:02.160 What's the state of the remixing business? 1:23:02.200 --> 1:23:09.439 Too? Well, the remixing it's like, what's the state of 1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:10.360 the mixing business? 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:11.200 Right? Right? 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:15.080 I mean the mixing business is basically chosen by the 1:23:15.120 --> 1:23:19.479 producer and the artist, Okay, or the label or the manager. 1:23:19.520 --> 1:23:22.519 But I think it's really producer driven and the artists 1:23:22.520 --> 1:23:27.240 they usually pick. Remixing is the problem more in right 1:23:27.280 --> 1:23:31.320 now because of that most But no, the mixing is 1:23:31.320 --> 1:23:34.080 still it's really it's simple a lot of times. Remember, 1:23:34.600 --> 1:23:38.240 you know, the artist has your little team, and that's 1:23:38.240 --> 1:23:41.400 how it goes. Hiring out a gun slinger like me 1:23:41.439 --> 1:23:44.519 and Bob isn't as frequent as it used to be 1:23:44.520 --> 1:23:46.920 because they can all mix in their bathrooms at this point. 1:23:47.680 --> 1:23:50.639 But still there is the knowledge that your fan base 1:23:50.760 --> 1:23:53.800 wants a cla or a clear Mountain or this guy 1:23:53.920 --> 1:23:56.960 or it's you know or Serbon Serbon who mixes like 1:23:57.040 --> 1:23:59.800 all the tale all the big pop stuff because he's good, right, 1:23:59.840 --> 1:24:04.800 so you get your run, So it's loyalty. The remixing 1:24:04.920 --> 1:24:10.400 problem I see is in the atmost stuff, and it's 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:15.479 getting sorted out. In the beginnings of atmost stereo. You know, 1:24:15.560 --> 1:24:21.080 Apple's Atmost I call Apples atmost. They needed content anyway 1:24:21.200 --> 1:24:26.760 they could get it, so regardless of who did it, 1:24:26.880 --> 1:24:31.160 they made some mistakes. And for me, unless the mix 1:24:31.280 --> 1:24:34.759 is approved by the artists that originally did it, it's. 1:24:34.560 --> 1:24:38.040 Not fair to put it out. To put it up 1:24:38.040 --> 1:24:38.799 on the site. 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:42.719 So whether it's Rebel Yell, whether it's unless the whole 1:24:42.760 --> 1:24:45.880 band is dead and there's nobody around going to improve it, 1:24:45.920 --> 1:24:50.519 well whatever, but make sure the artist gets at least 1:24:50.520 --> 1:24:53.000 to hear it and say, yeah, that's good, I like it. 1:24:53.720 --> 1:24:54.800 I'll sign off on that. 1:24:55.200 --> 1:24:59.680 It's respect that something they created that you manipulate for 1:24:59.720 --> 1:25:02.240 a new format, that they get to prove it. 1:25:02.360 --> 1:25:04.639 That's simple, and that wasn't happening. 1:25:05.360 --> 1:25:10.960 Okay. You know, the business has evolved like everything else. 1:25:11.439 --> 1:25:15.280 And for the last twenty years, labels we're talking about 1:25:15.280 --> 1:25:18.400 a major label will invest in a single song, they'll 1:25:18.439 --> 1:25:22.560 get additional songwriters, et cetera, and they'll pay a producer 1:25:23.040 --> 1:25:27.800 an unbelievable premium and a remixer an unbelievable premium. Is 1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:31.479 that's something that's in the world that you're in because 1:25:31.479 --> 1:25:35.719 in a lot of other worlds, uh, mastering, the prices 1:25:35.760 --> 1:25:39.160 have dropped to the floor. Okay, another thing, So what's 1:25:39.200 --> 1:25:41.280 the status? What's what's going on in your world? 1:25:43.080 --> 1:25:45.639 I mean, I don't you know the pop world where 1:25:45.640 --> 1:25:49.160 they're you know, they're going through that. I'm not that 1:25:49.280 --> 1:25:54.000 much involved because I get the song when it's done. Okay, 1:25:54.120 --> 1:25:56.000 when it's all done and they want they want somebody 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:57.479 else to mix it, I do it, okay. So that 1:25:57.520 --> 1:26:00.240 world mastering, they usually want my choice. 1:26:00.400 --> 1:26:02.800 Okay. If and if they. 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:04.680 Don't like what he did, well I'll have him try 1:26:04.680 --> 1:26:08.000 to make him better. Okay, the stuff they'll you know, 1:26:08.040 --> 1:26:13.880 the uh, that's where my business is. So it's pretty 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:18.080 much straight fan base. People send you stuff to work on, 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:21.000 and they also manage and produce some man so I 1:26:21.120 --> 1:26:23.719 like both sides of the coin. I like to produce 1:26:23.760 --> 1:26:25.040 for a while and then come in knock out some 1:26:25.080 --> 1:26:27.200 mixes because it keeps the variety flowing. 1:26:28.560 --> 1:26:31.920 So is compensation stayed steady, going down or going up? 1:26:33.560 --> 1:26:37.320 The mixing compensation is pretty steady, pretty much steady. The 1:26:37.400 --> 1:26:42.840 producing compensation it varies because a lot of times you're 1:26:42.920 --> 1:26:45.559 doing a lot of pro bono work. So look, you 1:26:45.560 --> 1:26:47.120 find a new artist, you're doing it all for free 1:26:47.160 --> 1:26:50.040 and hope you strike gold and hopefully you'll get him 1:26:50.040 --> 1:26:52.599 out of the road making some money, and or you'll 1:26:52.640 --> 1:26:54.679 have a band where you're literally just take a piece 1:26:54.720 --> 1:26:56.920 of the road. I mean, there is no money for 1:26:57.080 --> 1:26:59.720 records as far as I'm concerned, Like I would much 1:26:59.760 --> 1:27:02.840 prefer to just have a piece of the merch because 1:27:02.880 --> 1:27:03.559 that's real money. 1:27:03.640 --> 1:27:04.519 That's that's going to happen. 1:27:04.600 --> 1:27:06.240 If the band plays one hundred shows a year and 1:27:06.280 --> 1:27:09.639 they sell x amount of merch, it's a guarantee that 1:27:09.760 --> 1:27:16.519 your producer's fee is the merch. So selling records doesn't 1:27:16.560 --> 1:27:19.519 really make money. I mean it's just a piece of merch. 1:27:20.120 --> 1:27:25.720 So you know, streaming doesn't make money. Songwriter royalties that 1:27:25.760 --> 1:27:29.559 makes money. I mean, it's it's improving, but it's a 1:27:29.600 --> 1:27:30.679 whole different planet. 1:27:31.640 --> 1:27:36.479 So over your career as a mixer, have you gotten 1:27:36.600 --> 1:27:40.000 royalty points, flat fees? What's the status in the past? 1:27:40.040 --> 1:27:45.040 And then today, at a certain point in my career, 1:27:46.200 --> 1:27:49.479 everyone start paying a point. So I earned the point 1:27:49.840 --> 1:27:53.880 on every mix, and while CDs were still selling twenty 1:27:53.960 --> 1:27:58.000 thirty million dollars, that's real money. Okay, those royalties added 1:27:58.120 --> 1:28:01.240 up because you're getting a royalty based on the sale 1:28:01.360 --> 1:28:05.240 of a CD, a hard piece of record. Now they've 1:28:05.280 --> 1:28:08.479 actually because they're making a vinyl, you're getting a royalty 1:28:08.520 --> 1:28:11.960 on that. The royalty on sound exchange and streaming, well, 1:28:12.280 --> 1:28:14.880 I don't know, it's not like it used to be. 1:28:15.479 --> 1:28:18.479 So back in Atlantis Morris set when she had Jag 1:28:18.520 --> 1:28:23.160 a Little Pill, the CDs are selling thirty million, forty million, 1:28:23.200 --> 1:28:23.840 twenty million. 1:28:24.320 --> 1:28:25.479 That's the heyday, right. 1:28:26.400 --> 1:28:28.559 So if you had royalties back then and it stayed 1:28:28.600 --> 1:28:31.719 at that and stayed and kept going at that rate, 1:28:32.320 --> 1:28:36.240 it would have been a whole different landscape financially. But 1:28:36.800 --> 1:28:40.040 once Napster came in and they were in denial about 1:28:40.120 --> 1:28:44.240 you can copy CDs, it was over and then it 1:28:44.320 --> 1:28:48.320 all changed. So now it's like, Okay, a lot of 1:28:48.320 --> 1:28:52.600 times it's better just do the buyout then get a percentage, 1:28:52.600 --> 1:28:55.280 but we basically get a percentage a point on everything. 1:28:56.960 --> 1:29:00.000 And how busy are you? 1:29:00.920 --> 1:29:03.080 I mean, it's six seven days a week, as busy. 1:29:03.080 --> 1:29:06.080 It's as busy as I want to be. I'm as 1:29:06.120 --> 1:29:07.800 busy as I want to be. And I do enjoy. 1:29:07.880 --> 1:29:10.720 Like I said, I'm going between producing and mixing, so 1:29:10.760 --> 1:29:13.960 I like not just being the mix just pounding the 1:29:14.000 --> 1:29:18.160 mixes out. And the utmost work is very booming right 1:29:18.200 --> 1:29:20.639 now because maybe my approach. 1:29:22.120 --> 1:29:23.839 How much outmost work? Are you doing. 1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:26.839 A ton every record? 1:29:27.280 --> 1:29:32.559 And we're going back and right now I'm picking records 1:29:32.560 --> 1:29:34.920 I want to do that haven't been done yet, and 1:29:35.120 --> 1:29:40.559 I'm preferring to go back to stuff seventies early eighties 1:29:40.880 --> 1:29:42.519 when it was two twenty four tracks or one to 1:29:42.520 --> 1:29:46.679 twenty four track, you know, the first you know, first 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:50.559 albums by artists that those albums that may be artists okay, 1:29:51.240 --> 1:29:53.800 that are only twenty four track okay, And that's what 1:29:53.840 --> 1:29:56.840 I want. I don't want to be untangling like mid 1:29:56.880 --> 1:29:59.120 tow you know, two thousand or the ninety nine two 1:29:59.160 --> 1:30:02.559 thousand where pro tools and sessions and figuring out where 1:30:02.560 --> 1:30:03.840 the files. I don't want to go through that. 1:30:05.720 --> 1:30:11.000 Okay, we were talking that you believe the original engineer 1:30:11.520 --> 1:30:13.320 should do the utmost mix. 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:17.360 If possible, or be involved. 1:30:17.479 --> 1:30:23.320 I mean, I really believe that the only way to 1:30:23.360 --> 1:30:25.600 save the past for the future, or to reconnect with 1:30:25.680 --> 1:30:28.840 it is to get the original people involved. To first 1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:33.919 make sure that the assets of these earlier records are intact. 1:30:33.960 --> 1:30:36.040 You have that to begin with, and if they could 1:30:36.040 --> 1:30:39.800 have some involvement and come in and shed some light on, 1:30:39.960 --> 1:30:41.559 you know, their impressions of what you're doing. 1:30:42.320 --> 1:30:44.280 That to me, it's important. You know. 1:30:44.560 --> 1:30:46.840 It shouldn't be just a money grab. Ooh I could 1:30:46.840 --> 1:30:49.160 get I could do all these outmost mixes and make money. No, 1:30:49.320 --> 1:30:52.240 that's not the concept here. Our job is to serve 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:55.200 the artists and serve the music. If you do anything else, 1:30:55.200 --> 1:30:58.479 you're serving yourself and guys that are doing the money grab, 1:30:58.520 --> 1:31:01.000 that's just serving your wallet. Do the right thing for 1:31:01.040 --> 1:31:03.800 these records. Come on, I don't care if it's more work, 1:31:04.080 --> 1:31:05.000 Just do the right thing. 1:31:05.360 --> 1:31:07.879 Okay. On a remix as opposed to a new record, 1:31:08.520 --> 1:31:11.640 is there enough money to do it your way. 1:31:12.640 --> 1:31:16.599 Not really, We're trying to eke out a eke out 1:31:16.640 --> 1:31:18.800 a way where you know, because look, to make an 1:31:18.800 --> 1:31:22.680 at most mix, you have to recreate the stereo mix first, 1:31:23.479 --> 1:31:27.599 because the sonic palette has to be built in. Okay, yes, 1:31:27.760 --> 1:31:30.559 you can take an original recording, throw it in your 1:31:30.600 --> 1:31:34.400 at most computer, use your plugins, and go that way. 1:31:35.200 --> 1:31:38.320 But my attitude is like, look, I want to remix 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:42.160 it in stereo. Get all that magic that they had 1:31:42.200 --> 1:31:46.280 to create. Okay, match the stereo mix and then break 1:31:46.360 --> 1:31:48.800 that out into the pieces you need for at moosts. 1:31:49.400 --> 1:31:52.240 This way, I know that when I just put output 1:31:52.280 --> 1:31:54.920 those things, it's going to be that record. Now, maybe 1:31:54.960 --> 1:31:55.439 I'm wrong. 1:31:56.000 --> 1:32:00.120 Okay, you have the stereo mix now, needless to say 1:32:00.160 --> 1:32:03.000 that's the way it was originally mixed. Or two speakers. 1:32:03.600 --> 1:32:06.960 Stereo philosophies have changed. You know, used to be certain 1:32:07.000 --> 1:32:10.799 things in different speakers. Now everything merge drums in both speakers, 1:32:10.840 --> 1:32:14.519 et cetera. You got a stereo mix, what do you 1:32:14.600 --> 1:32:16.280 do to create an app most mix? 1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:18.439 Well? 1:32:18.520 --> 1:32:20.920 Once, but I'm saying once you match. 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:26.839 Say let's let's, for example, take listen to the music 1:32:26.920 --> 1:32:28.840 the first Doobie Brothers record. 1:32:29.400 --> 1:32:32.280 Okay, So the first thing I want to do is 1:32:32.280 --> 1:32:35.040 I want to match. I want to match the mix. 1:32:35.040 --> 1:32:37.639 So I want to have their mix on one button 1:32:37.920 --> 1:32:40.639 and then my console on another so I can compare. Okay, 1:32:40.680 --> 1:32:42.680 what's making make it all? I want to make the 1:32:42.720 --> 1:32:46.120 picture match right as close as possible to what they did. 1:32:46.600 --> 1:32:46.920 Okay. 1:32:46.960 --> 1:32:50.719 Once I have that all automated and perfect, I print that, okay, 1:32:50.800 --> 1:32:54.120 and then I can do a full capture of every 1:32:54.200 --> 1:32:56.840 individual part and then put that in another computer and 1:32:57.000 --> 1:33:00.240 all the sonic qualities and all the balances are intact. 1:33:00.960 --> 1:33:03.320 You got to match the stereo first. You can't do 1:33:03.439 --> 1:33:05.160 that on an atmost rig. You got to do it 1:33:05.200 --> 1:33:08.240 in stereo. So there's many ways. That's just the way 1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:10.280 I do it. I want to match the stereo first 1:33:10.400 --> 1:33:13.200 because I know once I match that, the autmost will match. 1:33:14.520 --> 1:33:17.320 Okay, you say you match the stereo, and then you 1:33:17.400 --> 1:33:20.680 go back to the multi track and then break it 1:33:20.720 --> 1:33:24.240 out because it's already EQ et cetera compressed the way 1:33:24.280 --> 1:33:24.760 you like it. 1:33:25.040 --> 1:33:28.120 Well, you're yeah, you're you're you're playing the multi track 1:33:28.200 --> 1:33:32.040 through your console and it's automated obviously, right, and you 1:33:32.120 --> 1:33:35.640 can and once the mixes match then you're playing that 1:33:35.760 --> 1:33:39.360 automation and then you're gonna you're gonna literally capture every fader, 1:33:39.880 --> 1:33:42.160 all forty four faders and all the rever of it effects. 1:33:42.160 --> 1:33:44.879 You're all gonna get captured to like sixty four tracks. 1:33:45.280 --> 1:33:48.000 Then you're gonna take that new multi track, put it 1:33:48.040 --> 1:33:50.840 in atmost and literally if you just output it spatially, 1:33:51.439 --> 1:33:54.320 that balance should be very close to the record. 1:33:54.640 --> 1:33:55.599 And then you go from there. 1:33:56.080 --> 1:33:58.519 But you've you've an act taken the piece of art 1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:01.000 and putting all the colors in the right places, okay, 1:34:01.560 --> 1:34:04.080 and then then you can go three dimensional with it. 1:34:04.280 --> 1:34:07.559 Okay, So what's the philosophy on where to put what sounds? 1:34:08.800 --> 1:34:12.519 That's where it's the wild wild West for me. 1:34:12.840 --> 1:34:14.439 I want you know, for me, we want to sit 1:34:14.640 --> 1:34:17.240 in the in the sound field and just move things 1:34:17.280 --> 1:34:21.560 around so it stays cohesive, but you you're able to 1:34:21.600 --> 1:34:26.080 get some more definition and give give parts some more placement. 1:34:26.680 --> 1:34:28.519 I mean, it's great with a live thing because you 1:34:28.520 --> 1:34:31.280 can make it sound like you're sitting in the room, okay, 1:34:31.520 --> 1:34:33.280 and you can move things around, so it just gives 1:34:33.320 --> 1:34:36.439 it a more three dimensionality. And that's really the concept 1:34:36.560 --> 1:34:39.160 is like you want to have a new experience with 1:34:39.200 --> 1:34:43.080 an old friend. I think atmos is literally a new 1:34:43.120 --> 1:34:45.679 experience with an old friend that you know very well, 1:34:46.400 --> 1:34:49.840 and all of a sudden things about your old friend. Wow, 1:34:49.920 --> 1:34:53.160 I didn't know that about you. I did not know 1:34:53.400 --> 1:34:55.760 that you did that. You know, I did not know 1:34:55.840 --> 1:34:58.360 that you come from the moon. And but you hear 1:34:58.880 --> 1:35:02.040 you hear th in the song that that you didn't 1:35:02.040 --> 1:35:05.040 hear before, or you hear clarity and like, wow, I 1:35:05.040 --> 1:35:08.280 didn't know those backgrounds did that. That's cool? Or I 1:35:08.280 --> 1:35:10.240 didn't know that guitar did that. It was like all 1:35:10.320 --> 1:35:13.040 met you know, it was all speared together. So it 1:35:13.360 --> 1:35:17.200 gives you a different experience, and you can just surround 1:35:17.240 --> 1:35:20.400 yourself with the song in like a sphere, like a 1:35:20.439 --> 1:35:22.960 you know, like a sphere, a round sphere, rather than 1:35:23.080 --> 1:35:26.360 just have these two points of light. And don't get 1:35:26.400 --> 1:35:29.600 me wrong, almost can be really distracting if if you 1:35:29.720 --> 1:35:31.920 do it, and if you do certain things, but you're 1:35:31.920 --> 1:35:34.160 trying to make it where you're not like like swinging 1:35:34.200 --> 1:35:36.040 your head goes, oh what's that? Where'd that go? What's 1:35:36.080 --> 1:35:37.920 that about? No, you want to just make it like 1:35:37.960 --> 1:35:41.760 your experiences. Wow, this is the greatest stereo ever and 1:35:41.840 --> 1:35:43.120 I think that should be what it is. 1:35:43.960 --> 1:35:47.720 Okay, what's a reference track you use that you did 1:35:47.880 --> 1:35:50.680 mix and one that you did mix that people can 1:35:50.760 --> 1:35:52.519 check out at most? 1:35:53.400 --> 1:35:53.920 Uh? 1:35:54.800 --> 1:36:02.600 Well, I obviously the the El John's Soon. Uh Rocketman 1:36:03.479 --> 1:36:07.599 is a great atmospherex because look rocket Man, even the title, 1:36:07.640 --> 1:36:10.599 even the lyric, the landscape alone makes you feel about it. 1:36:12.120 --> 1:36:14.880 Look as far as mine. Just look at. 1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:19.000 Current Green Day or Nimrod or or My Jovi or 1:36:19.320 --> 1:36:21.240 any of the any of the ones that we've put 1:36:21.320 --> 1:36:21.760 up there. 1:36:22.800 --> 1:36:23.240 Uh. 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:26.040 And these current artists will show you what I've been doing, okay, 1:36:26.080 --> 1:36:28.920 and the excitement we've done. I mean, I have a 1:36:28.960 --> 1:36:31.040 really cool Steve Hackett when it's not up there yet. 1:36:31.080 --> 1:36:33.240 But the law of a live show I kind of 1:36:33.320 --> 1:36:36.400 like the live version of aut most stuff because you 1:36:36.400 --> 1:36:38.360 can really feel like you're sitting in a venue. 1:36:39.560 --> 1:36:41.080 So why did you move to California? 1:36:43.120 --> 1:36:46.240 Uh? You know this this guy, Tommy Mattola, he lives 1:36:46.280 --> 1:36:49.400 on the road, and uh, I was working for him. 1:36:49.439 --> 1:36:52.320 He said, I got this girl, I got this artist 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:53.680 I'd like you to work with. 1:36:54.439 --> 1:36:56.040 I'm like, okay, because. 1:36:55.760 --> 1:36:57.560 I was doing a couple of things for Carle and 1:36:57.720 --> 1:37:01.439 Hall of Oates and Holly Knight, and she had a 1:37:01.560 --> 1:37:05.799 band called Device, but this is now her first solo 1:37:05.880 --> 1:37:07.760 album and she had some success. 1:37:07.920 --> 1:37:08.120 You know. 1:37:08.280 --> 1:37:11.040 The Best was a big single for her, and I did. 1:37:11.200 --> 1:37:13.920 I did that record as a mixer an engineer with 1:37:14.360 --> 1:37:17.360 Dan and said, you'll be good for it. 1:37:17.479 --> 1:37:19.360 She needs someone like you to help her make this record. 1:37:19.439 --> 1:37:20.120 I'm like, okay. 1:37:21.040 --> 1:37:23.840 So we're working at the Hit Factory and she wanted 1:37:23.840 --> 1:37:25.759 to finish the record, do all the vocals and final 1:37:25.800 --> 1:37:28.760 overdubs because it was cheaper, and she had a little 1:37:28.760 --> 1:37:30.720 studio in her house. So I said, chure, I'll come 1:37:30.720 --> 1:37:32.120 out there and we'll work on at your house. And 1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:36.439 I worked on it there with her. We became very 1:37:36.439 --> 1:37:39.200 close friends and finished the record and I just stayed. 1:37:39.720 --> 1:37:42.160 What's not to like. I'm a rag talk man. I 1:37:42.240 --> 1:37:45.720 can out a convertible and have good weather. And I 1:37:45.880 --> 1:37:48.559 just never went I you know, I didn't go back. 1:37:48.600 --> 1:37:51.080 I mean, I go back and visit Mom and my family, 1:37:51.160 --> 1:37:54.639 but once I was there, I just stayed at eighty eight. 1:37:55.720 --> 1:37:57.760 And what's the difference between the East Coast and the 1:37:57.760 --> 1:38:00.000 West Coast for you? 1:38:00.720 --> 1:38:07.240 The pizza, the bangels to hot dogs, I hear you, right, 1:38:08.560 --> 1:38:12.040 the attitude it's you know, hey, you know what out here? 1:38:12.120 --> 1:38:14.640 Well it our weather has been kind of it's a 1:38:14.640 --> 1:38:17.760 different year now, But it used to be in New 1:38:17.840 --> 1:38:22.040 York every weekend from like April to September would rain 1:38:22.920 --> 1:38:23.679 every weekend. 1:38:23.800 --> 1:38:25.040 Was ship here. 1:38:25.120 --> 1:38:28.160 Every day is perfect, so I could have the top 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:29.920 down like the whole year and if it rained, it 1:38:29.920 --> 1:38:33.800 was a novelty. This year opposite, but uh no, just 1:38:33.800 --> 1:38:36.080 different lifestyle. Plus it was booming out here. It was 1:38:36.520 --> 1:38:39.040 it was more suburbia. It wasn't the city. It wasn't 1:38:39.120 --> 1:38:41.800 driving trying to park in Manhattan and you know, and 1:38:41.840 --> 1:38:45.240 helping around the city. It was like everything's residential, spread out. 1:38:45.360 --> 1:38:47.720 Everyone's got a car. You know, there's a lot of 1:38:47.720 --> 1:38:49.640 studios at a lot of different clients, a lot of 1:38:49.640 --> 1:38:51.760 different action. It was just different fun. 1:38:53.040 --> 1:38:54.519 And what's the difference in the people. 1:38:58.240 --> 1:39:01.360 I mean the East Coast and the orcer. You know, 1:39:01.560 --> 1:39:04.200 it's like a jerky boy. Everyone's got a you know comment. 1:39:04.680 --> 1:39:07.439 You know, everybody's you know, they got an apigion. You know, 1:39:08.120 --> 1:39:09.880 you come here, it's a little bit more easy going, 1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:12.920 a little more easy going, and uh back in New York, 1:39:12.960 --> 1:39:15.759 it's like, you know, everyone's Brett Weir or Frank Rizzo. 1:39:16.120 --> 1:39:18.439 You know this accent, there's an attitude, there's an edge. 1:39:18.439 --> 1:39:21.280 You know. I love it, like Troy Germano my good buddy. 1:39:21.360 --> 1:39:26.000 So I love going back there and refreshing my my, my, my, 1:39:28.560 --> 1:39:31.440 this my vibe or my accent, so it doesn't vanish. 1:39:31.960 --> 1:39:34.639 So you know, this is a business with a lot 1:39:34.640 --> 1:39:37.880 of hours. Has your personal life suffered. 1:39:39.560 --> 1:39:41.599 Yeah, my whole career, it has totally. 1:39:44.240 --> 1:39:46.960 To this day, it suffers because I don't know, I 1:39:47.000 --> 1:39:49.240 have a hunger for this stuff really hard. 1:39:51.040 --> 1:39:51.920 I lust after it. 1:39:51.960 --> 1:39:53.719 I mean I wake up sometimes six in the morning 1:39:53.760 --> 1:39:57.160 I'm editing songs, so I can never seems like I 1:39:57.160 --> 1:40:00.760 can never get enough of the music. And I really 1:40:00.800 --> 1:40:03.360 have to force myself to, like, Okay, go working in 1:40:03.400 --> 1:40:06.920 the backyard, go work on the property, Okay, put all 1:40:06.920 --> 1:40:10.120 that effort into the into stuff other things. So my 1:40:10.160 --> 1:40:12.160 favorite sport is bike riding with the e bike and 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:14.280 the mounts of Switzerland. I mean that's all I like 1:40:14.320 --> 1:40:16.280 to do. So I try to have a social life, 1:40:16.280 --> 1:40:19.920 but yeah, it's if you're hanging out with me, you 1:40:20.000 --> 1:40:22.920 better be into music because that's going to be first 1:40:22.960 --> 1:40:27.240 and foremost most of the time. But uh, yeah, it 1:40:27.960 --> 1:40:29.559 is it is in eat your life. And I think 1:40:29.600 --> 1:40:32.360 the only way to be successful is to have that lust, 1:40:32.400 --> 1:40:35.439 that that lust for it and uh it's new every 1:40:35.520 --> 1:40:37.920 day and have that energy. A lot of people that 1:40:38.000 --> 1:40:43.360 work in the music business they seem retired from it emotionally, 1:40:44.160 --> 1:40:46.559 and it's like, Okay, you're not excited about this anymore, 1:40:46.640 --> 1:40:49.360 or I am like it's like, you know, like a 1:40:49.360 --> 1:40:53.760 brand new toy. So I still enjoy it. So it's 1:40:53.800 --> 1:40:56.320 not it's I'd never take it for granted, not one 1:40:56.360 --> 1:40:57.240 single minute. 1:40:57.560 --> 1:41:03.040 And to what degree is this life affected your love relationships? Uh? 1:41:03.360 --> 1:41:07.000 Usual eurek'savocate on just about every single one of them. 1:41:07.160 --> 1:41:10.679 But like with anything, you you you put the same 1:41:10.800 --> 1:41:13.000 energy you put into music into your love life or 1:41:13.040 --> 1:41:16.599 to your life whatever, and then eventually you'll take that 1:41:16.640 --> 1:41:19.040 for granted and the music will take over again. And 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:22.040 I don't know, it's it's it's hard. I mean, look, 1:41:22.240 --> 1:41:25.960 you know where your priorities are and you'll put them there. So, uh, 1:41:26.120 --> 1:41:28.800 I have a great situation and I'm happy, you know, 1:41:28.840 --> 1:41:32.120 I'm happy with that. So I like to keep my 1:41:32.120 --> 1:41:35.479 my personal life private and my family private. But uh, 1:41:36.280 --> 1:41:39.880 my music, you know, is is that disease I've caught 1:41:39.920 --> 1:41:40.599 from my mother. 1:41:41.680 --> 1:41:45.400 Okay, producers, what's a good producer? I mean, you're mixing 1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:48.919 and they're coming in before. What makes a good producer 1:41:48.960 --> 1:41:50.680 on the outside? Who are a couple of ones you 1:41:50.840 --> 1:41:51.479 like to work with? 1:41:53.840 --> 1:41:56.639 I mean, let's go back to at the beginning, uh, 1:41:56.840 --> 1:41:58.519 back to you know. The one that I thought was 1:41:58.520 --> 1:42:01.680 probably the best I worked with was Dan Hartman. It 1:42:01.800 --> 1:42:05.559 was amazing what I learned from him and how he 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:08.200 would just do all the things I said about taking 1:42:08.400 --> 1:42:12.040 control of a situation. And I think a great producer 1:42:12.080 --> 1:42:14.960 is one that also can play. I mean someone like 1:42:15.040 --> 1:42:17.920 Rob Cavallo who he knows how to he knows how 1:42:17.960 --> 1:42:21.439 to play. That helps him navigate the band and that's 1:42:21.439 --> 1:42:23.880 a lot of it. And John Shanks the same way. 1:42:23.880 --> 1:42:27.120 He's a great player, so he gets respect from the 1:42:27.240 --> 1:42:30.719 artist because he really loves working on the record. 1:42:30.720 --> 1:42:31.920 He loves the music. 1:42:32.400 --> 1:42:34.400 And then there's a friend of mine I've been mixing 1:42:34.479 --> 1:42:36.800 for hundreds and hundreds of years, Julian Raymond, who works 1:42:36.840 --> 1:42:40.519 with Scott Borchetta. A great producer. He knows exactly what 1:42:40.600 --> 1:42:43.759 to do, and he's loyal. He knows that he literally 1:42:43.760 --> 1:42:46.320 makes records that are made for me to mix because 1:42:46.320 --> 1:42:50.960 he knows that that team effort really works well. And 1:42:51.000 --> 1:42:53.080 I've seen I've seen many of the new I mean, 1:42:53.640 --> 1:42:56.720 Max Martin is an amazing producer because all he cares 1:42:56.720 --> 1:43:01.200 about is a song and then he crafts the sonics 1:43:01.240 --> 1:43:04.840 to match what's in his head. And but Lang the 1:43:04.840 --> 1:43:08.400 same way. It's like he hears the final record done 1:43:08.520 --> 1:43:11.000 in his head and the struggle is getting it there. 1:43:11.439 --> 1:43:14.439 And that's Mut's thing. He already hears it done and 1:43:14.479 --> 1:43:17.519 he puts the song together before Like I mean, you 1:43:17.560 --> 1:43:20.559 compare Back in Black. It's not even that complicated, but 1:43:21.280 --> 1:43:25.439 the build is right, you know. Hysteria is where he 1:43:25.520 --> 1:43:28.000 took it as far as it could go for that era. 1:43:28.439 --> 1:43:31.000 It made something. It still sounds better than most records 1:43:31.120 --> 1:43:33.559 today sonically. 1:43:33.720 --> 1:43:36.400 Okay, But Mutt, I'm with you there, Mutt really doesn't 1:43:36.439 --> 1:43:39.640 work anymore so in your particular case, where you've been 1:43:39.640 --> 1:43:43.599 doing it for forty years, closer to fifty years, you 1:43:43.640 --> 1:43:46.880 say you're still hungry. You must have had moments where 1:43:46.920 --> 1:43:49.800 you said, man, I'm burned out or it doesn't mean 1:43:49.840 --> 1:43:51.920 as much to me, or something like that. 1:43:54.240 --> 1:43:56.479 Uh, I do, And that's where I'm selective about what 1:43:56.560 --> 1:44:00.400 I work on. If I see if I see one 1:44:00.400 --> 1:44:02.599 of those one of those gigs, I know is not 1:44:02.640 --> 1:44:04.719 going to interest me. If it's not gonna light my fire, 1:44:05.160 --> 1:44:08.519 I'm out of here, you know. So if if it's 1:44:08.560 --> 1:44:11.439 something that I feel is going to be work and 1:44:11.560 --> 1:44:13.880 not fun, I don't do it. I don't care who 1:44:13.920 --> 1:44:17.519 it is. Uh So I'll turn away. And I like 1:44:17.560 --> 1:44:19.720 to take taking on the bigger challenges. I like to 1:44:19.720 --> 1:44:22.280 do the live broadcast too, because that's what I call 1:44:22.320 --> 1:44:24.840 a real ball wiggler. That means that separates the men 1:44:24.880 --> 1:44:27.680 from the boys. When you're doing an artist at Coachella 1:44:27.880 --> 1:44:32.240 or at an award show or Grammys or whatever you know, 1:44:32.320 --> 1:44:34.879 CMA's or something where it's a lot of stress, that's 1:44:35.360 --> 1:44:37.920 separates the men from the boys. Eric Shilling, that guy 1:44:38.040 --> 1:44:42.000 is like the iceman. He is cool as a cucumber, 1:44:42.400 --> 1:44:46.280 never even raises his voice. Me. I'm a freaking big mouth, 1:44:46.360 --> 1:44:50.200 so I'm always yelling. But that guy doesn't get rattled. 1:44:50.520 --> 1:44:54.120 And that that's a serious pro doing all those broadcasts. 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:56.760 But you know, I want to get burned. 1:44:56.800 --> 1:44:59.240 I gonna Switzerland for a month and ride a bikes 1:44:59.240 --> 1:45:01.479 in the mountains, and I don't listen to music. I 1:45:01.560 --> 1:45:05.400 hear cows, and I hear yoldling and alpine horns, and 1:45:05.479 --> 1:45:06.360 that makes me happy. 1:45:06.520 --> 1:45:08.599 Well, will you go alone or with your wife? 1:45:08.720 --> 1:45:12.800 Or h I start alone? I liked, I need, I 1:45:12.840 --> 1:45:15.280 need a week, or I just get up every morning. 1:45:15.360 --> 1:45:17.640 I could take my bike going to train, go on 1:45:17.640 --> 1:45:19.599 the trail, get out there by myself. 1:45:19.800 --> 1:45:21.160 Where is this in Switzerland? 1:45:22.439 --> 1:45:25.639 Uh, Lucern or Interlockin? You know, I have a lot 1:45:25.640 --> 1:45:26.280 of friends there. 1:45:26.280 --> 1:45:30.080 And just to rejuvenate, you know, I think you got 1:45:30.120 --> 1:45:32.960 to get out in nature and just be alone and 1:45:33.040 --> 1:45:35.680 uh just you know, be alone with your thoughts and 1:45:35.720 --> 1:45:38.920 be alowd nature. Just take all that white noise. We're 1:45:38.920 --> 1:45:42.320 so surrounded with white noise from the phones. Well you 1:45:42.400 --> 1:45:44.720 have none of that. It's great. The only thing on 1:45:44.760 --> 1:45:47.920 the phone is the Strava that tells you where you 1:45:47.960 --> 1:45:49.120 know that or a map. 1:45:49.160 --> 1:45:49.920 I just use it for that. 1:45:50.479 --> 1:45:52.960 But now it's a nice break from it all, and 1:45:53.040 --> 1:45:54.680 then it's all new again when you start back up. 1:45:55.240 --> 1:45:58.320 Okay, you mentioned earlier. Listen to the music, the first 1:45:58.320 --> 1:46:02.919 Doobie Brothers hit. You mentioned Jagged Little Pill, you mentioned 1:46:03.600 --> 1:46:09.240 led Zeppelin, the cassette and uh back in Black. These 1:46:09.240 --> 1:46:13.679 are all iconic records, not only the iconic, they're great records. 1:46:14.400 --> 1:46:16.640 What do you think about the music today compared to 1:46:16.680 --> 1:46:20.559 those eras well? 1:46:20.600 --> 1:46:23.479 I think right now what's being made? I mean my 1:46:23.640 --> 1:46:27.360 concern now is is it going to stand a test 1:46:27.360 --> 1:46:30.759 of time? Is in twenty years a new record gonna 1:46:31.040 --> 1:46:34.479 you know, still feels like something you're gonna want to hear. 1:46:34.560 --> 1:46:38.960 Is it gonna pass through the generations? One of my concerns, 1:46:39.040 --> 1:46:40.960 and I think one of the concerns I have with 1:46:41.080 --> 1:46:44.599 new music versus old is something that I feel that 1:46:44.840 --> 1:46:48.200 I'm partially responsible for is compression. Like some of these 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:52.799 pop records are this disposable music is so compressed, so limited, 1:46:52.840 --> 1:46:57.720 it's it's unlistenable in a in a you know, in 1:46:57.720 --> 1:47:00.439 a teenage way. You know, it's unlistenable on standard listening, 1:47:00.439 --> 1:47:02.880 like on a high thigh on a stereo, to sit 1:47:03.000 --> 1:47:05.360 back with a with a glass of wine and listen 1:47:05.400 --> 1:47:06.000 to a record. 1:47:07.040 --> 1:47:08.840 It's all made for disposable. 1:47:08.920 --> 1:47:14.639 So I think some of these creations are overly spanked, 1:47:14.680 --> 1:47:18.800 overly compressed, and uh, only made to last this very 1:47:18.840 --> 1:47:22.240 short journey. We're not seeing these you know, Rolling Stones 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:25.479 albums or these great records. Maybe they'll come back, maybe 1:47:25.479 --> 1:47:27.439 they'll be a little bit more open as I'm hoping. 1:47:28.200 --> 1:47:30.960 I mean, I know we've you know, we've created a 1:47:31.000 --> 1:47:36.320 different sound, a more forward, more upfront, less dynamic sound 1:47:36.520 --> 1:47:39.519 in songs, which is fine, but uh, I really think 1:47:39.640 --> 1:47:43.360 it's about the songs and it's about the artist, and 1:47:43.720 --> 1:47:47.360 I think what happened in the past is the limitations 1:47:48.000 --> 1:47:52.479 of technology created music that stands at test of time, 1:47:52.800 --> 1:47:56.800 where all the having all the tools creates a laziness 1:47:58.000 --> 1:48:00.360 that makes more disposable music. 1:48:01.160 --> 1:48:05.120 Do you affect your sound to be current with what's happening? 1:48:07.840 --> 1:48:08.040 You know? 1:48:08.680 --> 1:48:11.320 The funny thing is that I always hear things the 1:48:11.360 --> 1:48:13.400 same way since I started. I always hear it the 1:48:13.439 --> 1:48:15.479 same way in my head, and as it a ranger 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:17.599 or a player, I hear certain things in my head. 1:48:17.640 --> 1:48:19.960 I never think about, well, let's put this on this 1:48:20.080 --> 1:48:22.840 because current. I never think about it that way. I 1:48:22.880 --> 1:48:25.880 never think about, let me listen to some sounds for 1:48:26.000 --> 1:48:28.760 current record and use those sounds. I'm like, I never 1:48:28.760 --> 1:48:30.559 think of it that way. I don't know, I don't 1:48:30.640 --> 1:48:33.240 I'm not influenced by that. I listened to like the 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:35.960 Lamb or Steve Steve Hackett or I've listened it to 1:48:36.240 --> 1:48:39.720 Steven Wilson on my spare time or news radio. I'm 1:48:39.760 --> 1:48:42.320 not listening to the ringio going oh, yeah, that that's 1:48:42.320 --> 1:48:45.120 pretty cool. Maybe I should do that. Never, I just 1:48:45.160 --> 1:48:46.400 I don't know. I just do what I think and 1:48:46.439 --> 1:48:46.800 that's it. 1:48:47.200 --> 1:48:49.000 How much do you keep up on new music? 1:48:50.240 --> 1:48:54.720 I don't. I mean, yeah, I mean I will keep up. 1:48:55.240 --> 1:48:57.200 I'll look at I'll look and check out some new 1:48:57.280 --> 1:49:00.439 artists and people I like and see what they done. 1:49:00.720 --> 1:49:02.680 And yeah, I'll do the. 1:49:02.680 --> 1:49:05.439 Radio scrolling, you know, my truck and I'll just be 1:49:05.479 --> 1:49:07.479 scrolling through all those channels, like, okay, so here's the 1:49:07.520 --> 1:49:10.240 country station, here's the rot Oh there's that. Oh that's cool. 1:49:10.240 --> 1:49:12.799 Who's that? Oh that's not bad? What's that lyric? Okay, good, 1:49:13.200 --> 1:49:16.040 I'll listen to it. But yeah, I just stay current 1:49:16.520 --> 1:49:20.320 as far as hearing new things, but as far as 1:49:20.320 --> 1:49:22.240 what I'm going to listen to. Whatever, relaxing I'll put 1:49:22.280 --> 1:49:28.200 in the Lamb two albums or Quadraphedia. I mean, Quadraphedia 1:49:28.280 --> 1:49:29.439 is a win every time. 1:49:30.600 --> 1:49:34.360 Quadraphenie the original album with a great cover with Vinyl. 1:49:35.000 --> 1:49:38.920 It was remixed. John Eden Twistle was involved for the 1:49:39.000 --> 1:49:43.479 movie and The mix is better, I feel than the original. Listen. 1:49:43.479 --> 1:49:48.000 There's so many versions since then, but I remember buying it. 1:49:48.040 --> 1:49:51.440 The lyrics it was less cloudy, it was more defined. 1:49:52.439 --> 1:49:54.960 But anybody you haven't worked with you want to work with. 1:49:58.120 --> 1:49:58.960 Yeah, I wanted it. 1:49:59.040 --> 1:50:01.400 Borkwori McCartney ever got to do that. I wanted to 1:50:01.400 --> 1:50:03.320 mix a Stones record. I mean, I've worked with Mick, 1:50:03.360 --> 1:50:05.519 but like this deal with that Andrew Watson. I just 1:50:05.600 --> 1:50:07.120 wanted to mix a Stones record. I just wanted to 1:50:07.160 --> 1:50:09.479 have that. You know, I wanted to mix a real 1:50:09.520 --> 1:50:11.800 Who record, but I think that ship is sailed right 1:50:12.520 --> 1:50:13.000 my heroes. 1:50:13.040 --> 1:50:14.679 I just wanted to work with some of my heros. 1:50:14.880 --> 1:50:17.280 Of course, I wanted to work on some Zeppelin' ac DC, 1:50:17.439 --> 1:50:20.000 you know, all those Titans. I wanted to have at 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:23.479 least a chip in that game. And I mean I 1:50:23.479 --> 1:50:25.040 got to work with the Elton I did the Dodger 1:50:25.080 --> 1:50:26.920 Sati of Live thing, which is great because my friend's 1:50:26.920 --> 1:50:29.200 in the band. So I got to work with, you know, 1:50:29.560 --> 1:50:34.280 artists I seriously respect, and there's more to come, like Peter. 1:50:34.560 --> 1:50:37.200 I loved working with Peter and Dwight. I mean that 1:50:37.280 --> 1:50:40.880 guy's not easy. But you know, if you can make 1:50:40.960 --> 1:50:46.040 him happy. It's important. He's an amazing musician, an amazing player, 1:50:46.160 --> 1:50:49.400 and he's I've learned a lot. 1:50:49.240 --> 1:50:50.519 About music from him. 1:50:50.800 --> 1:50:55.000 He's a very smart guy and very passionate about his 1:50:55.160 --> 1:50:57.080 music and how it sounds. And I've been in charge 1:50:57.120 --> 1:51:00.599 of that for a while now. And I would hate 1:51:00.640 --> 1:51:03.880 to be his guitar rodeo on stage because he is particular. 1:51:05.000 --> 1:51:05.599 But he's right. 1:51:05.760 --> 1:51:07.880 You know, how'd you get the gig with Elton? 1:51:10.160 --> 1:51:12.680 Kim Bullard's keyboard player, A close friend of mine lives 1:51:12.720 --> 1:51:14.680 up the street. We've been friends for thirty years and 1:51:15.160 --> 1:51:16.759 I've always wanted to work on some outh stuff. 1:51:16.760 --> 1:51:17.759 He goes, well, here's your chance. 1:51:18.000 --> 1:51:21.880 So so you know, the offer came in and it's like, 1:51:22.360 --> 1:51:23.960 just match the fee they wanted to pay, Bob, and 1:51:23.960 --> 1:51:28.400 you're in, okay, and do it the short amount of time. Fine. 1:51:28.680 --> 1:51:30.800 And when they all went to Emmy and you don't, well, 1:51:31.000 --> 1:51:34.800 just suck it up. So maybe I'll get to Emmy, 1:51:34.800 --> 1:51:35.400 maybe I won't. 1:51:35.439 --> 1:51:37.240 Who knows? Did mix it? 1:51:37.360 --> 1:51:40.920 Okay? And you have these classes? What's the story with that? 1:51:42.160 --> 1:51:43.120 I like giving back? 1:51:44.000 --> 1:51:47.519 So Mix with the Masters is a platform that we 1:51:47.640 --> 1:51:50.880 teach kids about mixing, about producing you can do it 1:51:50.920 --> 1:51:52.320 over a course of a week. We could do it 1:51:52.360 --> 1:51:56.320 with online videos. You can do it at four day. 1:51:56.520 --> 1:51:59.160 I'm literally leaving tomorrow to do a master class that's 1:51:59.160 --> 1:52:02.439 Sweetwater for two days to teach. You know, kids that 1:52:02.479 --> 1:52:05.519 are hungry about learning. What would Chris do? It's really 1:52:06.000 --> 1:52:08.840 what how does Chris do this? So I show them 1:52:08.840 --> 1:52:11.519 exactly what I do? Am I worried about? Well, if 1:52:11.600 --> 1:52:13.920 I show everyone what I do, then no one's gonna 1:52:13.960 --> 1:52:16.400 want me. Well, no one's going to get my head 1:52:17.120 --> 1:52:21.280 and copy that. So I like sharing and showing kids, 1:52:21.400 --> 1:52:25.120 look kids, showing anybody who wants to do this, Well, 1:52:25.360 --> 1:52:28.640 here's here's my experience, and here's what I've done, and 1:52:28.680 --> 1:52:31.360 here's what might help you. And a lot of it's 1:52:31.360 --> 1:52:33.840 just how you run your business and and how you 1:52:33.880 --> 1:52:36.760 work with audio and how you deal with it. Just 1:52:36.800 --> 1:52:39.760 try to help them in a career that doesn't make money. 1:52:39.800 --> 1:52:41.000 It's all. It's all about time. 1:52:41.120 --> 1:52:44.880 So if you can, if you can, you know, if 1:52:44.920 --> 1:52:46.800 you can be good at what you do and do 1:52:46.880 --> 1:52:51.040 it efficiently, you can enjoy it, you know, so I 1:52:51.120 --> 1:52:51.799 enjoyed the teacher. 1:52:52.240 --> 1:52:57.800 Give me two things that you would immediately tell your students. 1:52:58.240 --> 1:53:01.519 Is to take it seriously or get another job that 1:53:01.760 --> 1:53:04.160 look at it as a career and a life time thing, 1:53:04.560 --> 1:53:05.439 not as a hobby. 1:53:05.560 --> 1:53:08.080 Okay, that's the first thing. Okay. 1:53:08.640 --> 1:53:12.840 The second thing is take control of it, Okay, and 1:53:12.880 --> 1:53:15.120 then you'll have it. You'll have a chance. And it's 1:53:15.120 --> 1:53:17.400 not a guarantee that what you hear they're gonna like, 1:53:18.680 --> 1:53:21.639 but give it a shot, because that's the whole thing 1:53:21.680 --> 1:53:23.880 with anything in the music, Like what you hear in 1:53:23.920 --> 1:53:26.360 your head maybe way wrong, and no matter what you do, 1:53:26.360 --> 1:53:27.720 they're not gonna like it. So you may end up 1:53:27.720 --> 1:53:29.840 being just an engineer for hire to record stuff. But 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:34.200 your opinion is really the lucky thing that people if 1:53:34.200 --> 1:53:36.880 you have the right ears to hear it a certain 1:53:36.880 --> 1:53:39.760 way that you think that they'll like, and they like it. 1:53:39.800 --> 1:53:40.360 That's the win. 1:53:40.600 --> 1:53:43.080 It's not about eke here, it's not about compression they're 1:53:43.080 --> 1:53:44.759 about It's nothing to do with the tools. 1:53:45.080 --> 1:53:46.760 Nope, it's a state of mind. That's the win. 1:53:48.240 --> 1:53:50.320 Well, this has been a win, Chris. I want to 1:53:50.320 --> 1:53:53.280 thank you so much for taking the time with my audience. 1:53:54.000 --> 1:53:57.639 You're a fountain of information. There are many other layers. 1:53:58.040 --> 1:54:00.599 I know you're busy, so thanks a lot for doing this. 1:54:01.280 --> 1:54:02.960 You are quite welcome, Bob. 1:54:03.000 --> 1:54:05.240 I love to see you at the next amazing event 1:54:05.520 --> 1:54:09.840 there because you're a music lover and you're seem to 1:54:09.880 --> 1:54:11.000 be at all the right ones. 1:54:11.840 --> 1:54:13.920 That's where I run into you at the Greek Theater 1:54:14.040 --> 1:54:16.920 and elsewhere. In any event, this has been Bob Left 1:54:16.920 --> 1:54:19.599 sets with Chris Lord Algae. I just want to take 1:54:19.640 --> 1:54:22.960 a moment to give credit to Margaret Middleman, who for 1:54:23.000 --> 1:54:26.400 the last couple of years has been the coordinator on 1:54:26.520 --> 1:54:29.600 this show, the grease who makes this work. She is 1:54:29.720 --> 1:54:34.040 moving on, so kudos to Margaret. In any event, Chris, 1:54:34.080 --> 1:54:37.280 thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob Left 1:54:37.320 --> 1:54:37.680 stets