1
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftsnuts Podcast. My

2
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:19,680
Speaker 1: guest today is engineer, mixer producer Chris Lord Algae. I

3
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 1: gotta ask, Chris, I remember first seeing your brother's name

4
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 1: on the back of Stevie Winwood's Back in the High Life.

5
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:33,839
Speaker 1: I say, tom Lord Algae. He's an English cat, So explain,

6
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,360
Speaker 1: you're a guy from New Jersey. Give us a backstory

7
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:37,520
Speaker 1: on the hyphenated name.

8
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 2: Well, that's a pretty good story. My mom who got

9
00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,480
Speaker 2: me started in this business when I was very young.

10
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 2: Her stage name was Vivian Lord. So once she got

11
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 2: me the job, and once I started getting some credits,

12
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 2: I changed my name to Lord Algae as a tip.

13
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 2: Had the hat to her because she got me started.

14
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,080
Speaker 2: So I used her stage name and my last name,

15
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 2: and it was actually her sister's real last name was

16
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 2: Gloria Lord, so I combined the two and then Tommy

17
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,559
Speaker 2: and Jeff Mark and Lisa we all took over. And yeah,

18
00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,200
Speaker 2: Back in the High Life was Tommy's fast track introduction

19
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,440
Speaker 2: to moving from assistant to engineer on my watch because

20
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 2: at that point I was doing so many things at

21
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 2: once that I needed someone to help, and you know

22
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:27,319
Speaker 2: it worked out great.

23
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 3: I pushed him into the hot seat. He did well.

24
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 2: When the client came in, I snuck out because he

25
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: would be like, Chris, can you come and show me

26
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,959
Speaker 2: this thing? I'm like yeah. I wanted to make sure

27
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,600
Speaker 2: he won and finished that record because I started it

28
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 2: and I just you know, I wanted this was a

29
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,640
Speaker 2: perfect way to get him started, and my mom was

30
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 2: happy that he won the first Grammy.

31
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, growing up going to school,

32
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: you were Chris Algree, Yes, oh yes, I was. Okay,

33
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,880
Speaker 1: let's switch gears. We were having a conversation about Dolby.

34
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,920
Speaker 1: Is there a future for Atmost?

35
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 2: I think there's a future for atmost if people can

36
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,880
Speaker 2: hear it the way I hear it. As we know.

37
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 2: When Surround came in, it was like, oh, we're we

38
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 2: going to put these other speakers. So if they could

39
00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,959
Speaker 2: come up with a way where you can have nine

40
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 2: to one four, which is, you know, thirteen speakers in

41
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 2: your room, or a way to hear that or make

42
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,080
Speaker 2: it look, you know, not weird with only speakers, I

43
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,840
Speaker 2: think there's a future because it gives people a different

44
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: way to listen to music, and it matches the theater thing.

45
00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,399
Speaker 1: Okay, explain, not everybody's that sophisticated. Explain nine to one four.

46
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 3: Well, nine one four would be uh. I mean that's

47
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 3: just the numbers.

48
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,720
Speaker 2: So it basically needs thirteen speakers and one subwharp ers,

49
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,760
Speaker 2: so nine four and one so they can do it

50
00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,519
Speaker 2: with seven. I mean in my room, I have thirteen speakers,

51
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,320
Speaker 2: so I have left center right, Okay, I have upper left, right,

52
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 2: lower left, right, back, left right, bottom left right.

53
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,079
Speaker 3: You know, and then very back is surround.

54
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,480
Speaker 2: So surround was five speakers, so LCR and then left

55
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 2: right surround. Okay, with nine to one four at most,

56
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:18,799
Speaker 2: just add four more speakers, okay, yeah, right, yes, and

57
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,639
Speaker 2: no no, you add four more speakers in the middle

58
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 2: to give you upper I'm sorry, eight more speakers in

59
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 2: the middle to get upper and mid. And that surrounds

60
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 2: you in like a sphere of speakers. So it's almost

61
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 2: like the format for movies at most, same same same format.

62
00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 2: So we've added more points of origin for the audio.

63
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So when you can get at most on Apple

64
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 1: Music and you listen on headphones, can you hear all

65
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 1: of that on headphones?

66
00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,680
Speaker 2: You get a simulation? So Apple has immersed of audio.

67
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 2: So by manipulating phase. They're able to assimilate, you know,

68
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 2: the atmost experience in headphones, which is convenient, more convenient

69
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 2: nine than all these speakers. Is it the same? No,

70
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 2: When clients sit in my room dead center, it's our

71
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 2: big wow. In the headphones, it's a big hm wow.

72
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. We had mono, we moved to

73
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 1: stereo in the sixties. In the seventies, there were two

74
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: competing quad formats, both ultimately failed. In the nineties we

75
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: had Q sound that failed. Why should this succeed when

76
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 1: all the other ones failed?

77
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 3: That's a good question.

78
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:53,279
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel that that this is the biggest

79
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 2: push I've seen in technology towards the you know, in

80
00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 2: audio transformation. So really, and and one thing it does

81
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,040
Speaker 2: is it makes the labels go into their libraries and

82
00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,720
Speaker 2: dig out these masters and take another look at them.

83
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 3: So yeah, we'll see what happens.

84
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 2: I think the major problem is if the listener can

85
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,159
Speaker 2: enjoy the experience, okay, then it'll then it'll fail.

86
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 3: Maybe the car maybe that's the best way.

87
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: The best place to put it in a fix because

88
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,440
Speaker 2: you're in a fixed position, so that that might be

89
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 2: you know, one of the future ways to have it.

90
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,160
Speaker 1: Okay, someone calls you up to mix. Are you doing

91
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 1: an outmost mix? For all the records? A few records.

92
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 2: It's now something that is that has to be added.

93
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 2: And the main reason is because Apple is promoting this format.

94
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,919
Speaker 2: When your record comes out, it'll show that you have

95
00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,120
Speaker 2: an atmost version that will put it kind of at

96
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 2: the top of the list like new Spatial. You know,

97
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 2: new Spatial mixes will show up and then there's your record.

98
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,360
Speaker 2: So if you don't put it out that most, then

99
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 2: you're not up there. So the labels and the bands

100
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 2: are really pushing to now have this other format added

101
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 2: in addition to just stereo.

102
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:19,119
Speaker 1: Okay, So generally speaking, what are people sending you to mix?

103
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 1: They're sending you a pro Tools file with how many tracks?

104
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,600
Speaker 1: What are you getting on the incoming.

105
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 2: I get their session, a pro Tool session. Sometimes it's organized,

106
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,720
Speaker 2: sometimes it's a complete disaster. Is it ever right? No,

107
00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 2: But it's all they send me. So yeah, I get

108
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 2: the multi track, I get the original recording. We mix

109
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,359
Speaker 2: the stereo mixes. Once that's all approved, you know like

110
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 2: with Green Day or bon Jovia. Once that's all approved,

111
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 2: then we create the atmosphixes.

112
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not the old days of sixteen

113
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 1: and twenty four tracks. How many tracks might somebody might

114
00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:57,960
Speaker 1: send you.

115
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 2: I've had stuff clock in and the high two hundreds,

116
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 2: the high three hundreds, and I no matter how big,

117
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,200
Speaker 2: no matter how big, that boat shows up in, I

118
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 2: dock it on forty four feaighters sometimes forty six. If

119
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 2: I have to push, I can get it down the

120
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 2: forty four forty six channels.

121
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 3: And that's it.

122
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I come in with two hundred channels. What's the

123
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:22,680
Speaker 1: first thing you do?

124
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 2: I go through the song and I find out where

125
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 2: all the handoffs are, which means most of the you know,

126
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 2: the things that happen is that everything is separate.

127
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 3: Everything is separate.

128
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 2: So you'll have the vocal and the verse that's separate,

129
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 2: the b sex or the chorus, they're all separate. If

130
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,640
Speaker 2: they don't overlap. It's a handoff. Is it usually the

131
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 2: same sound?

132
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 3: Yes?

133
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 2: That can easily fold down. How about won there's like

134
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 2: forty eight tracks of backgrounds. They can easily fold down

135
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,800
Speaker 2: to a couple of pairs without even the compromise. So

136
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,840
Speaker 2: there's there's three things we focus on. A handoff is

137
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: when literally part A and can go to part B

138
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 2: and parts part D on one track and it all works.

139
00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 2: And then a comp is when you would take like

140
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 2: a low, a mid and a high harmony and just

141
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 2: make your own blend stereo and that saves a lot,

142
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,200
Speaker 2: a lot of faders. And then and then overlap is

143
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,600
Speaker 2: when one thing overlaps with another, and then you you

144
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,400
Speaker 2: have to make a decision there how you make that work,

145
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it folds down pretty quick.

146
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: It is every day, Okay, you say, okaya, forty four faders?

147
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 1: Is the goal to get forty four or many fewer? Now?

148
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 2: Forty four is fine because some things I'll you know,

149
00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,320
Speaker 2: because for me, I want to have the drums spread

150
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,360
Speaker 2: out the most because that's usually the biggest challenges to

151
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,839
Speaker 2: get them right. So I don't want to make compromises there.

152
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,840
Speaker 2: But I think, Bob, part of it is that I

153
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,840
Speaker 2: come from a world of twenty four track, then two

154
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 2: twenty four tracks, then a forty eight digch tape machine,

155
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 2: so one tape, forty eight tracks play rewind. So the

156
00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,640
Speaker 2: reason the forty four number comes up simple on the

157
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 2: tape on tracks one and two would be their rough

158
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 2: mix that would stay there. Then I would need tracks

159
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 2: three and four for my mix, and then that would

160
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 2: leave me forty four tracks for the rest. So, no

161
00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 2: matter what, it would competent. That was the number and

162
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,200
Speaker 2: I'm sticking with it. Are there situations where I spread

163
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,320
Speaker 2: it out a little bit more, Yeah, it was if

164
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,719
Speaker 2: I have to, but I really I want to get

165
00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 2: it down to this manageable size and then the mixing

166
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 2: is easy.

167
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,840
Speaker 1: Okay, do you do that yourself or do you have

168
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 1: somebody who does that for you before you get involved.

169
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,720
Speaker 3: I do it with my assistant.

170
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,440
Speaker 2: I usually if I get the session at home, I'll

171
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 2: prep it all ready for him and then he'll have

172
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 2: it ready for me to make those decisions. So since

173
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,080
Speaker 2: we've been working together for years now, he knows what

174
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,680
Speaker 2: decisions I'm going to make, he'll have those ready and

175
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 2: I'll fine tune those comps you know, or or edits,

176
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 2: and then.

177
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 3: Go from there so we can always go back and

178
00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 3: redo it.

179
00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 2: That's the great thing about protals is that with two

180
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 2: twenty four tracks, Hey, you got to make a decision.

181
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 1: Okay, you got all forty four tracks up on the board.

182
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,839
Speaker 1: What's your next step? Uh?

183
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, we'll find out what this. You know, we'll listen

184
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 2: to the rough mix. We'll put the cues in, which means, okay,

185
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 2: verse one B one, chorus one. Well, look, well, just

186
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 2: look how this song was built. Okay, And I'll put

187
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 2: the faders up and I'll look for where the problems

188
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,680
Speaker 2: are and look where the magic is. So most of

189
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 2: the time, if I get the rhythm section to sound

190
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 2: right and the vocals to sound right, everything else falls

191
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 2: in between. So the vocals the most important thing in

192
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 2: the record. So I'll make sure I find all that

193
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,360
Speaker 2: stuff and fix that all first.

194
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 1: Okay, you fix it? Then to what degree do you

195
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,000
Speaker 1: add EQ in effects? And when.

196
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 3: It's constant?

197
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,520
Speaker 2: So I mean EQ and compression is constant, And it's

198
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 2: really the vocals get the most comple I should the

199
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 2: most EQ, the most editing to get what I call

200
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 2: a sound, to get more of an analog sound. If

201
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 2: you look back in the in the early days of recording,

202
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 2: I mean they built the sound in. They didn't have

203
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,080
Speaker 2: all these options. Later later it was just let's just

204
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 2: turn some knobs and make it balance. Mixing is really

205
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,400
Speaker 2: about getting a great balance and letting the song breathe.

206
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, the.

207
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 2: Vocals will get most of the treatment and the drums

208
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: will be like, Okay, do I need to add samples

209
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 2: or not to make it do what I wanted to do,

210
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 2: because the drums are always the holy grail to make

211
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 2: the record work, and a lot of these recordings are

212
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 2: not ideal and you know, and I'm not, I'm not,

213
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,480
Speaker 2: I'm not precious about any of it. I'm like, oh,

214
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 2: we better keep their kick drums sound like no, if

215
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 2: it's not working, it's out of here.

216
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,840
Speaker 1: So you will literally replace and add drums.

217
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 2: I always, I always have them ready. I always have

218
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 2: samples ready to go, and I just seasoned to taste.

219
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes the steak shows up, it's perfect, it's medium, rare,

220
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,920
Speaker 2: it's got salt and pepper, a little bit of olive oil.

221
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,960
Speaker 3: Boom, great. And then there's times where wow, that's unedible.

222
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 2: So I'll just start seasoning it with samples to help it,

223
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,439
Speaker 2: you know, have the impact and do what I think

224
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 2: needs for the song.

225
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the vocals. Are you using

226
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 1: the EQ in the board or external EQ?

227
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 2: Well, I have you know, I have all the colors.

228
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 2: I have the biggest paint box going, so I have

229
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 2: I have EQ compression that starts from the sixties, so

230
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,120
Speaker 2: plugins I actually created myself, so I'll use a little

231
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,120
Speaker 2: bit of everything to make it work. So there'll be

232
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 2: some plugins in the box getting it started, and then

233
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,280
Speaker 2: my traditional analog compression in EQ it's to finish it.

234
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,439
Speaker 1: Okay. I think most people know what EQ is. Explain compression.

235
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 2: Compression is just dynamic control. So, uh, you know a

236
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 2: lot vocals are very dynamics, so you want it. You

237
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,160
Speaker 2: don't want to eye scraper in a neighborhood a single

238
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 2: story houses, so you want to make sure if the

239
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,000
Speaker 2: song is working and everything's like a single story house,

240
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,840
Speaker 2: you want to make sure the vocal dynamic range matches

241
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,400
Speaker 2: the song and matches the energy. If it's an open song,

242
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,079
Speaker 2: you want to have it more dynamic. If it's a

243
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 2: rock song, you only you want it to have one

244
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 2: floor of dynamics, so it so you can understand it

245
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 2: and it has the energy of the track as Okay.

246
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,760
Speaker 1: Will you ever use compression on the overall result?

247
00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

248
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that then you have on the whole On

249
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 2: the whole mix, it's called the bus. We have a

250
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 2: bus compressor, which means the mix bus. Okay, So whatever

251
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 2: your mix is going through before you know you print it.

252
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 3: I have a bus compressitors. Uh.

253
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 2: I have a bus compressor, and I have tube eqs.

254
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,839
Speaker 2: I use Pulltech eqs that are tubes literally from the sixties.

255
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 2: That sound to me automatically makes this all work better.

256
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 2: It adds a quality of low end and hind you

257
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 2: can't get out of a new digital eque. So I

258
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 2: used to traditional and it's not much. It's just to

259
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 2: top it off. That's always in. So I start with

260
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 2: that in. I don't change it. It's that's the setting,

261
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 2: and if it feels too much, I pull things back.

262
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 2: But that's the set of them. And when it's done,

263
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 2: mastering doesn't add anymore. It's like, okay, that's fine the

264
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 2: way it is.

265
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 1: Okay. So who do you use usually as a mastering engineer.

266
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 2: I've been using Ted Jensen since the eighteen hundreds, kidding

267
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 2: Ted Jensen and I go back to nineteen eighty two

268
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 2: when I wandered in with a band demo and had

269
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 2: to master a band demo for me, and then later

270
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,480
Speaker 2: on I just you know, started working him and he's

271
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 2: just my partner, but he's my partner in audio. I mean,

272
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 2: he knows what my sound is and he knows what

273
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,160
Speaker 2: makes my clients happy.

274
00:14:59,560 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 3: Now.

275
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 2: The thing with mastering is that as long as the

276
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 2: client's happy, it's a win for everyone. But he also

277
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 2: understands that I don't want it to really change much.

278
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 3: When I send it.

279
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,920
Speaker 2: Just just top it off, which means if I had a

280
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 2: bright day or a dull day, just just find the

281
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 2: balance where a record will sound the same. That's what

282
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 2: a mastering engineers there. This song needs a little more salt.

283
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 2: Oh this is too salty. Let's let's let's go back

284
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 2: on that.

285
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:31,640
Speaker 1: So okay, just staying on a big topic, analog versus digital.

286
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts there? Uh?

287
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,240
Speaker 2: Well, analog. Analog is like tinted windows. Okay, you roll

288
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 2: the windows up. It's got a vibe. Digital is like

289
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 2: clear glass. What goes in comes out with no enhancement.

290
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 2: When you record on analog, the transients get held back.

291
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 2: It adds a bit of compression because it can you know,

292
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,080
Speaker 2: it's just tape, So it adds a vibe. It actually

293
00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:01,920
Speaker 2: fixes things, It makes things better, but it's noisy, and

294
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,560
Speaker 2: a good engineer can work with that a log That

295
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,360
Speaker 2: format is pretty much dead here.

296
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 3: Someone really have to pay.

297
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,840
Speaker 2: Me extra money to go all analog with something could

298
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 2: I do it?

299
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 3: Of course?

300
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 2: But I started out analog and I was so happy

301
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 2: when digital came in. For the main reason is that

302
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 2: I could create a first generation copy of everything from

303
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 2: all the slave reels. So digital's really good because you

304
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 2: don't really lose anything when you copy it. And with

305
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 2: that a loog you had to really be careful and

306
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 2: you had your hands tied you really, I mean the

307
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: magic you can do now you could never do that.

308
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 3: It was painful.

309
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you and me both know there's a lot of

310
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,280
Speaker 1: compromises to get music on a vinyl record. Roll loss all.

311
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 1: You know, the Neil starts with the end. Whatever. What

312
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 1: do you think about today's vinyl boom?

313
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 2: I am so happy that the boom is happening for

314
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,040
Speaker 2: want for one reason.

315
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 3: I'll start with the first reason.

316
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,919
Speaker 2: It gives the listener something to look at and read

317
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 2: and then get a vasion. It feel like he's been

318
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 2: transported into that record. Okay, when you looked at a

319
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 2: Beatles album, all these records santastic, santanic majesties.

320
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:22,240
Speaker 3: Right.

321
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 2: The album covers are so intense, but you're reading it

322
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 2: while you're listening. So let's just start there. It gives

323
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,200
Speaker 2: gives guys like me a place to see their name. Ah,

324
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 2: so someone knows who actually did it, because with streaming,

325
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 2: I mean it could be goddamn Captain Kangaroo mixed it.

326
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 2: Nobody knows I did it, and sometimes people take your credit.

327
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,240
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that we have something you could hold

328
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 2: in your hand, and whether you played or not, that

329
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 2: you have it, okay. And also I encourage my artists

330
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 2: everyone I work with to get to make great sounding vinyl,

331
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 2: which means if the record's too low, it's gonna be

332
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,600
Speaker 2: two discs, okay. If you go over a certain time,

333
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 2: gotta make it two discs or three or four okay,

334
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:13,240
Speaker 2: Dolly was four to get sound quality. If you pack

335
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,399
Speaker 2: too much time on a disc, it just sounds like crap.

336
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 2: And have a mastering engineer master it for vinyl, which means, okay,

337
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 2: if you're gonna use a little compression in limiting or

338
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 2: whatever these guys do for rock stuff.

339
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 3: Don't use any of that for the vinyl, okay.

340
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 2: And they have to eq it and cut an acetate

341
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 2: and do it differently because of like what you said,

342
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 2: the low end can make the needle jump.

343
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 3: The high end has to have a high le, a

344
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 3: limit or on it.

345
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 2: Use the techniques to use for that. That's what mastering

346
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 2: really was, is the magic disc cutter.

347
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 1: Okay, I fully understand when you have analog tapes and

348
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: you ultimately make a vinyl record, it doesn't quite make

349
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 1: sense to me to start with digital and make nyl.

350
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 1: You have a very clear sound. You're actually compromising what

351
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: you have.

352
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 2: I don't think you're actually My opinion on that is

353
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 2: that if you take your ninety six K twenty four

354
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,119
Speaker 2: bit wavefile a right which we all make, and you

355
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 2: make an album from it, it makes it sound analogue

356
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,000
Speaker 2: because of the limiting, because of what you have to

357
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 2: do to get it on vinyl, because that little bit

358
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,159
Speaker 2: of tweaking kind of rounds it off and actually takes

359
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 2: the harshness out of it. So I love listening to

360
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 2: records at home, and there's just something magic about putting

361
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: the needle on the record and listening to it. And

362
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 2: I have a giant pa outside, so I mean listening

363
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 2: out there. I mean you listen to Asia on a

364
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 2: first pressing, It's it's magical. There's something in there that

365
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 2: you can't take away.

366
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 1: Ok So you mentioned Asia, any other reference Vinyl.

367
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 3: Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Amazing.

368
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I put on Doobie Brothers, Okay, I

369
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 2: put on Beatles, I put on the Rolling Stones, and

370
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 2: sometimes with the Stones, Street Fighting Man will sound better

371
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: on one album and different on another. To the point

372
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: where we're all having dinner. And I emailed them and said, hey,

373
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 2: you know I'm through the past Darkly volume too. It

374
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: sounds great on there, but I think on Beaker's banquet

375
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 2: it sounded all the started and screwed up. So check

376
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: that out. And he did and said, you are right.

377
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 1: So okay, let's go into gear. So what kind of

378
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 1: board do you have in your studio.

379
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 2: I've been driving this bus for a long time. Solid

380
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 2: State SSL four thousand series. I first started on it

381
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four and I'm not going anywhere. I'm

382
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 2: staying with it.

383
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 1: Okay. SSL was a breakthrough. Know it was digital, the faders.

384
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 3: Moved, it's analog.

385
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 1: It is analog, shows what I know. Yes, it was

386
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 1: one of the first where the faders moved right.

387
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, eventually they came out with Ultimation where the

388
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: faders had motors and they moved. Yes, it started out.

389
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 2: I still use one where the faders don't move if

390
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 2: I don't want them to move. If God wanted faders

391
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 2: to move and give them wings, I don't want faders moving.

392
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 2: I move them, then they move where I don't want them.

393
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of things. Do you think the motors

394
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: add something to the sound.

395
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, the reason, yeah, the reason they put the motors

396
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 2: in was to eliminate the use of a VCA, a

397
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 2: voltage controlled attenuator, and make it a clear path. Some

398
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 2: people like that song. Some people can hear the difference.

399
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: My brother uses ultimation. I don't hear a problem with

400
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: the VCA. That's how it started, and that's how I'm

401
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: going with it.

402
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: I like it. I like I just like it does.

403
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 3: But it is an improvement.

404
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 2: Well, that's why they made it was an improvement to

405
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: have no audio going through the fader.

406
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 1: Okay. Explain that a little deeper the VCA and how

407
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: the audio doesn't go through the fader. Uh.

408
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 2: Well, the first the first console you could that you

409
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 2: could automate, which you could have it remember your moves.

410
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 3: It's a fault. It's controlled to tell you it's a VCA. Okay.

411
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 2: So when they moved from that, you could actually switch

412
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 2: from VC mode to motors on. That means the audio

413
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,880
Speaker 2: comes out of the chain, okay, and the and the

414
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 2: the audio levels being controlled differently and supposed to sound

415
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: a little more open, a little more punchy. But you know,

416
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: it's it's apples and oranges. It's it's it's opinion. It's

417
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 2: supposed to be better. I didn't care about it. I

418
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: mean pro tools, the faders moved no matter what, you

419
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: have no choice.

420
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a nineteen eight or four.

421
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 3: All this one's eighty six, yeah.

422
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: Eighty six. Excuse me. In the last forty years, other

423
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 1: than automation, what way have they evolved?

424
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: Well, with solid state logic, Yes, the quality has evolved, okay,

425
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 2: and everything about it is evolved. Has it made it better?

426
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: Not necessarily in our music business right now, what's evolved

427
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: is how cheap the stuff has gotten and how quality

428
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,959
Speaker 2: has gone out the window, and a lot of things

429
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: and convenience has taken over. Okay, because remember these things

430
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 2: cost a fortune. So and the old needs and the

431
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 2: older consoles from that golden era of the seventies and

432
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 2: eighties is where they really had high quality. Now there's

433
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: still the big consoles that have great sound. But this

434
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: workflow and this build makes me play it like an

435
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: instrument or the newer ones, it's too much that I

436
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: don't need to use, Okay, I need for it to

437
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: remember my moves, remember my mutes, and take a snapshot

438
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: and remember what I did.

439
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 3: That's all I care about.

440
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: And you know, when SSL came on the market, there

441
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: were people who either SSL or Neve people. So what

442
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 1: do you think about Neive, Harris and all the other

443
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: boards that compete with SSL.

444
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: Well, for me, I think that the Neve sound is

445
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: great to capture to record with. And I've done some

446
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: great albums that are recorded on a Neve console. Tina Turner,

447
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: you know, and they had that golden area of the

448
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: eighty fifty eight, the eighty sixty eight, the eighty seventy eight,

449
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 2: great class a mic praise.

450
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: You know.

451
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: I still use Neve modules to record stuff. They still

452
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: have the best sound. But the SSL four thousand console

453
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: is a mixing machine. It was built for one purpose,

454
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 2: to give you the ultimate production tool ever, and nothing

455
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 2: is going to ever beat the simplicity of this. When

456
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: I started out, it was two twenty four tracks, you know,

457
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: being able to automate and save it and save a

458
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: picture of your mix so you could recall it and

459
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: put it back up. To this day, I can still

460
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 2: recall any mix I've done in twenty years, and it's

461
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: going to be really close if not spot up.

462
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: Okay, before automation, you know, on certain mixes you'd have

463
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: to bring multiple people into the studio to move the faders.

464
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: So how do you do it? Uh?

465
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: In back then, let's go back then we'll start with

466
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 2: it back then. Back then you would have pieces of

467
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: tape in the faders with little marks. Okay, So back then,

468
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 2: when I mix with no automation, I would mix until

469
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: I made a mistake and I'm printing to the half inch,

470
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 2: so I start to mix the half inches rolling. I'm like, oh,

471
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: it's going great, all right, stop the half inch when

472
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: I made a mistake, back up, start the happench again, backup,

473
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: pick up where I was going, and keep stopping and starting,

474
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: and then edit the half inch together. We're all you

475
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: know where it was correct, So you would you would

476
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: make notation say okay, mix good up till the bridge. Okay,

477
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: here's the chorus. This is fine. You'd have to remember

478
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 2: the good part edited together, and it's easy to edit

479
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: because you're editing this, you're editing what works together.

480
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 3: So that's how you did mixing. You just make edits.

481
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 2: That that was your automation, your automations you go to

482
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: you make a mistake, then back up and punch it

483
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: in fix apart and I tell you Living in America

484
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: by James Brown went that way and many others. And

485
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 2: when you have to go back and print like the

486
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: instrumental or the TV track, you got to remember all

487
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: your moves and do the same exact thing again, and that,

488
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: you know what, that builds, That builds integrity.

489
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: That's a great way to learn.

490
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 2: Then when you're able to automate, it's like it's it's

491
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: it's like an unbelievable dream coming true that it will

492
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: remember what you do. Early systems were bad, but the

493
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 2: SSL became the ultimate mixing machine.

494
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 3: A Bob Clear Mountain who is my idol and I think.

495
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: Probably one of the greatest, the greatest mixers of all

496
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: time and a really sweet eye talented guy.

497
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 3: He's the one that used this.

498
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: Tool to turn into a superstar on mixes like Let's

499
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: Dance on start Me Up Okay, where they just they

500
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: and all the Springsteen stuff.

501
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 3: They just go beyond.

502
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: How much of that was the machine and how much

503
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: was clear mountain.

504
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 2: Obviously it's all the mixer's ears. But the tools enable

505
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: him to go beyond what he could pull off. Okay,

506
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: so you get better with the tools that you can

507
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: go beyond this. Oh I could do this with it.

508
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: Now I can make it do that. I hear this

509
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: thing in my head. I can actually get it, and

510
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: trust me. In the early eighties, you know, it was challenging.

511
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: I mean, we're all trying really hard to make these things,

512
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: you know, larger than life.

513
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 3: So the tool was a miracle.

514
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about speakers. We had our tones than

515
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: nsten M's and then you know they have the big speakers,

516
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: the Augsburgers. What do you use?

517
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: And it's tense, the same ones I've had since nineteen

518
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: eighty something, eighty seven or eighty eight. And here's a

519
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 2: simple way to put it. I started out it was

520
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 2: oritones in the late seventies, or maybe it was nineteen eighty.

521
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 2: The first pair showed up, Okay, and we all got

522
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 2: into it. The thing about the ns ten like it

523
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: or love it. It's the sound of hits. Okay, and

524
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: whatever whatever you hear through. If you can make it

525
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: work on that, the opposite is what the record is. Okay,

526
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: So if you can make it work for you, what

527
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: your result is. What records sound like. That's what hit

528
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: records are to me. It's the it's a tool, okay,

529
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: whatever it sounds like. You get used to it and you.

530
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:50,959
Speaker 3: Live with it.

531
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: It becomes your tool, becomes your reference. And still to

532
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 2: this day, if I use other speakers, the mix sounds different.

533
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: Things I don't like pop up and so yeah, I

534
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: stay with it. I even created it with avingtone the

535
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: CLA tens, which is the best we could do to

536
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: make an exact copy.

537
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: Okay.

538
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: The only real difference in mind versus the originals are

539
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 2: mine or new and it's a fatigue, so they get

540
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: a little duller like the originals. But we did the

541
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: best we could do to make a match. And and

542
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: that's the story on that.

543
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: Okay. Back when they hit the market, everybody was putting

544
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: a little piece of Kleenex over the tweeter. You still

545
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: do that? What do you think about that?

546
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: Well, at this point, I'm so old. I wanted to

547
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 3: be brighter.

548
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: Okay, No, I have the cover, I have the covers,

549
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: really I don't even have I have the covers on them.

550
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: I literally have see the original nsten ms had covers

551
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: that want on right, and they look really nice. I

552
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: don't want to look at the white cultun anymore. I

553
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: had many years with the white colen a tissue. Now

554
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: I just put the cover on it and the cover

555
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: makes it dark.

556
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: Okay, your speaker business, the CLA speaker, Is that a business?

557
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: Uh?

558
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a product.

559
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: I have a CLA ten and a CLA ten Active,

560
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: which obviously is popular because people want a powered speaker.

561
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: I even have the virtual tissue paper controller.

562
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know there's a lot of monitors

563
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: out there. Can you get them through sweet Water people

564
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: buying them? Or is it a very niche product?

565
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 3: Uh?

566
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: It's the biggest selling passive monitor there is.

567
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 3: Everywhere Sweetwater at where everyone has them.

568
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: And were you do any selling marketing or it just

569
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: sells itself?

570
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's a I do a little bit.

571
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 2: I mean I did a few ads for it. I

572
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 2: even made a power amp to match it, the CLA

573
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: two hundred, because I wanted to have the companion that

574
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: went with it, which is a power amp that that

575
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: to me gets the closest sound. And we're also coming

576
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: out with a subwook first, so it matches that. So

577
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: and yes, Sweetwater sells it. Everybody sells it, I mean,

578
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: and I sell it at the right price. I mean,

579
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 2: I made it as cheap as possible. I just wanted

580
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: engineers to have the tool because I'd get calls like, hey, Chris,

581
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: I got these enus tens from eBay and they sound weird.

582
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: Can you check them out for me? And they're usually

583
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: mismatched or screwed up, and it's not fair that you

584
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: spend your hard money and you can't trust it.

585
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: So how much does a pear cost?

586
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: I think they're like eight ninety nine or and the

587
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: powers are nine ninety nine.

588
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: Okay, and tell me about the amplifier.

589
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: It's I literally took the amplifier that I use been

590
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 2: using a Yamaha amplifier and said, look, just make a

591
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: copy of this. Make something it sounds like this, built

592
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,719
Speaker 2: like this, and it worked, and I plugged it in

593
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: and said, you know what, this feels really familiar.

594
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: I'm happy with this. Okay, this does what it's supposed

595
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: to do.

596
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: To what degree are you a gear hit? Worrying about

597
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: the wire and all kinds of other stuff like that.

598
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 3: Uh, well, I don't care about the wire. I don't

599
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: go that far.

600
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: Look as long as it as long as it creates

601
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: the sound that I'm used to. Yeah, that's it, because

602
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: I have so much vintage gear, and yeah, it's all

603
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: made out of unobtainium. And when it breaks, it breaks,

604
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: and when it stops working, you're bummed out. But I know,

605
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: you know, I know what these things say. I know

606
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: what they can do for my paint box. You know,

607
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: I know what color is supposed to have. But yeah,

608
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: we're always tweaking and having fun always.

609
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So that particular board, how long has that been

610
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: with you?

611
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: This board's been in this room since nineteen eighty six,

612
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: and it's seen it's had this particular one, which is

613
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: a seventy two. I mean Tupacsichord did his records on it.

614
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: Before that, it was Stone Tempo Pilot, It's a lot

615
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: of rock bands. Before that, it was death Row for

616
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: a minute, and then after death Row someone else took over.

617
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: Then I bought the place, so about sixteen years ago,

618
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: two studios, but this has been here since since new.

619
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 3: Since new, it hasn't.

620
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: Moved, Okay, so tell us about your studio complex. What

621
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: do you have?

622
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, now I have three rooms. I have a studio A.

623
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: I'm a studio B Studio A I rent out, and

624
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: then I have a studio D I call. I don't

625
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: really have a C. I have a studio D that

626
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: I have with a brand new origin in it. So

627
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: I have my partners in there. He's working, so we're

628
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: fully functional. But this is like, this is my rooms

629
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: and this is whatever is me is in here. Only

630
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: nobody else comes in here unless I'm producing it or

631
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: I'm involved.

632
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: Okay, studio has been closed and left, right and center.

633
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: How's your business and how do you stay open? Well,

634
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: it's simple, it's got to be owner operator.

635
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: Okay.

636
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: So being in the studio business is challenging unless you

637
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: have a lot of loyal clients. But if you think

638
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: about it right now, A and M Studios. Okay, Hence

639
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: it A and M the last the five or six

640
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: big ones, or left our books solid all the time

641
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: now because I was working with Dwight, and Dwight couldn't

642
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: find a room to finish vocals in and he always

643
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: wants to be in A and M. So I mean

644
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: all the last of the Mohicans are all busy, but

645
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: it's an owner operator thing. You have to be the

646
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: work and then you just the studios your place.

647
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from New Jersey.

648
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 1: Where trying to fly in New Jersey and tell people

649
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: where that is in New Jersey?

650
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 2: Got some you know, twenty minutes from the city over

651
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: in Bergen County, New Jersey. I was born in Englewood,

652
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: lived in Tenafly. We moved a bit. My first job

653
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 2: was I got it H and L Studios in Anglewood.

654
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: Wait, before you get there, your mother was a singer.

655
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 1: What'd your father do for a living?

656
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: My father was in the jukebox and vending business.

657
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: So really.

658
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: Yes, so he you know, he would jukebox and cigarettes

659
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: and occasionally some pins and some bowlers, but it was

660
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: jukeboxes and he had to load them up. And he

661
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 2: had a whole room full of forty fives and it

662
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: was top forty, so it was one through forty, and

663
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: every week or so he would update their locations and

664
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: change them. And I was able to go in there

665
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 2: as like a tot and grab forty fives and play

666
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: them and take them home.

667
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: Okay, that business historically is controlled by the mob.

668
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the mob basically forced them out. The mob said, look,

669
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: you either sell to us or we're going to kill

670
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: your whole family. He got pushed around by the mob

671
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 2: to the point where he sold his company to a

672
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: bigger vendor betson that were a little bit more immune

673
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: to the mob influence. But no, he had guys coming

674
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: in wanting to hand out.

675
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

676
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: He told me the stories about the situations and when

677
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: he sold out it.

678
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: That was like the reason why he got out of

679
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 3: the business.

680
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: What did his father do for a living.

681
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: His father was an embroiderer from Switzerland, so he comes

682
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: directly from Switzerland. So, uh, my father's parents are from Switzerland.

683
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: He was an embroiderer, so he embroided patches and flags

684
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 2: and things like that.

685
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: And then how did your father get into the jukebox business?

686
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 3: You know, that's a question I don't have the answer for.

687
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: But I think him and his war buddy, you know,

688
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: he had a he was in World War Two, and

689
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: I think as one of his close friends, you know,

690
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: that was an idea for them. That was an idea

691
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: to get into that business. It's all cash, and my

692
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: father loved music. He's the top forty guy. He was

693
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: the one saying he'd hear a song on mind already, goes,

694
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 2: is that one of ours? I'm like, no, Dad, that's

695
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: somebody else. Why isn't that yours? That's a good song,

696
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: that's a hit. He'd hear Mine goes, you know what,

697
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to go. I don't think

698
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 2: it's going to do anything.

699
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 3: And then that.

700
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: Stevie winning He goes, Yeah, that stev Went went thing

701
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 2: that's gonna go. That's that that higher love thing, and

702
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: that that's a good one.

703
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 3: That'll go. Watch them it watch it. He's right, it's funny.

704
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: And tell me about your mother's career.

705
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: My mom was, you know, a diehard jazz artist, professor

706
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: of music. She taught she you know, she taught music.

707
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: She lived it, she breathed it.

708
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: Uh.

709
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 2: She played every day till the day she died. I

710
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: mean she always had the pianos, always played and uh

711
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: and I did four records with their jazz records. She

712
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: was just hardcore jazz, intelligent, very smart. But you know,

713
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: raising five kids, it's a challenging being out in those

714
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: little clubs, dinner clubs, playing it's you know, you got

715
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: to have a lot of patience and a lot of

716
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: a lot of pride to hold on to that.

717
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: So in the five kids, where are you in the hierarchy.

718
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 3: I'm right in the middle, right in the middle.

719
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: So so what is everybody doing today?

720
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: Ah, I mean, you know, there's five, but it's now

721
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 2: six because before she got married, she had a child

722
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: at wedlock, which is my older sister.

723
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: So I have a I have an.

724
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 2: Older sister, an older brother, and another older sister, and uh

725
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 2: my two younger brothers. Obviously Tommy does the same thing

726
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 2: I do. My brother Jeff was younger. He does live

727
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: sound in the in the in the Pacific North, in

728
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: the well in the West in Wyoming. My older brother

729
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: was in the vending business. He's retired. He was he

730
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: took over my dad's but he took over doing that.

731
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 2: He basically worked for a mobster. I mean, he worked

732
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: for guys that were questionable.

733
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: H he did.

734
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 2: He was probably the greatest guy who could fix a

735
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 2: jukebox or a pinball, and he knows every single model.

736
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: And then my you know, my sister is a complete entrepreneur. So, uh,

737
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 2: the music thing was me and my two brothers. Really,

738
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 2: my two younger brothers. We really went for it.

739
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: Okay, So what kind of kid were you? Growing up?

740
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: Good or bad? In school? Friend? Sports?

741
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 2: Uh? The school didn't last till it ended in eighth grade,

742
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 2: so uh, I just carried.

743
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.

744
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: Let's start with the school. The lawe is you have

745
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: to go to school till you're sixteen. Needles to say

746
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 1: you're not sixteen in eighth grade. So what exactly happened?

747
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 2: Well, my mom saw that I wasn't really interested in school.

748
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: I was more interested in music and recording because I

749
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: would take her equipment. She just had like a real toreal,

750
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: a few mics in a mixer. I took that into

751
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: the basement. I started at eleven, twelve years old, recording

752
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: a little band down there, and I would cut school

753
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: and we'd hang out make music. And she finally realized, well,

754
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: he's not going to go to school, I better get

755
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: him a job. So yeah, by eighth grade, I didn't

756
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: even finish eighth grade, and I got a job at

757
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: a studio at thirteen fourteen, and at thirteen.

758
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: The government never came over and said, this guy's not sixteen,

759
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: he's got to go back to school. Nope, okay, and

760
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: you did go to school. You have a lot of friends,

761
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: you play sports or more of a.

762
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: Loaner, total loaner, and mostly into the music. And because

763
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: I've had long hair, the greasers would pick on me.

764
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 2: And because I wanted to hang out in the music

765
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: room with a few of my other friends or smoke

766
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: pop behind the school, all the greasers would come after

767
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 2: me because I was the hippie. And it was you know,

768
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: it was always the greasers versus the freaks, right, And

769
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 2: that's how that went.

770
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: So getting out of school was a win.

771
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: Okay, do you have any kids.

772
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: I have a twenty twenty two year old daughter who's

773
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: graduates college next week.

774
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: Okay, that's my question. Did you tell her she's got

775
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: to go to college? Did you want to go to college?

776
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 2: I just no, I just said, you do whatever you want.

777
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna I'll whatever. I'll take care of

778
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: your schooling as far as you want to go. So

779
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: it's I'm not telling you what to do at all.

780
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: So no, she she's a great student, has done very well,

781
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 2: and she's gone all the way and she might even

782
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: go to you know, a mastering whatever. The next level is,

783
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 2: but I think at this point I like to see

784
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: her get some real work experience because I believe that's

785
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: part of my success is starting at such an early age,

786
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: you actually it becomes part of you.

787
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: Then. Okay, many people of our vintage started off playing

788
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: instruments being in band, especially after the Beatles hit did

789
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: you ever play?

790
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: Oh?

791
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I played a little bit of everything. So I

792
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: was a piano player, drummer, guitar player. In my band,

793
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 2: I was a guitar player, keyboard player, and then the

794
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: drummer was good, but he would speed everything up. And

795
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: I love drums, so I picked up drums and I

796
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: started playing drums and ended up playing drums with a

797
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 2: lot of records I would produce. And there are even

798
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 2: some mixes that the drums were so bad. I just

799
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 2: replayed them, didn't tell them. I don't get in trouble.

800
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: Okay, your father was in the business, you had a

801
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: room of Top forty. But when you started listening to

802
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: the radio, what is it that caught your ears?

803
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 2: I mean I listened to am cousin Brucie. I started there.

804
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: I mean when I was young. Uh so I was

805
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: always listening to the Top forty hits. I was always,

806
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, I cared about what was you know, what

807
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: was the hit and my dad had the list always,

808
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 2: so I'd look at the Billboard list he had and

809
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: I always check out those and have forty fives of that.

810
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 2: Well then, you know, fast forward a few more years.

811
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: My brother gives me, my older brother gives me a

812
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: joint and a led Zeppelin cassette, and I started listening

813
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: to that every night, and then it changed and then

814
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: it was like, okay Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and then it

815
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: was Genesis and the Prague moved in, and then it

816
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: became Genesis.

817
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: So wait, wait till you're a big proger.

818
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean all I listened to was Jenn

819
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: It's like I play the Lamb all the time. I mean,

820
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm a proger, totally a proger.

821
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: And what about yes, General Giant and all.

822
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: The other totally general Giant, elp all that yes yours

823
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,479
Speaker 2: is notis grace all the progue. I mean, to this day,

824
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: I'm out anytime I can see Steve Hackett and I've

825
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: seen a hundred Hacket shows, so all the Genesis shows

826
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 2: that could go to even the the you know, even

827
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: the last round, which is a little disappointing because Phil

828
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 2: was just like not, I you know, not in the best.

829
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: So but yeah, Steve Hackett the only one keeping it going.

830
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: And then there's also Stephen Wilson. He's great progue guys.

831
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: So yeah, come on, what do you think of Wilson's

832
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: remixes on the classic albums?

833
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: You know, to be honest with you, I have not

834
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 2: compared them to the originals. And you know, if he's

835
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 2: able to do it great and the band's like it great,

836
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 2: I you know, me and my brother Tommy would bust

837
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 2: his balls when we see him at the show, saying, dude,

838
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 2: you're not a mixer, send your files to us. We'd

839
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: much prefer this record if we mixed it. Well, I

840
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: like the records. I'd like to mix it myself, you know.

841
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: I guess you know he remixes them, and he's told me,

842
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, because the bands want changes that are you know,

843
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: the people who are listening are the hardcore fans. They

844
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: want him to sound like the originals. So when listening,

845
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: it sounds like he took steel wool and scrub stuff

846
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: off where it's like Giles Martin, what he did with

847
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: the Beatles is a travesty.

848
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I agree that I agree with you

849
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 2: on that completely. When you remix something that's been heard

850
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: a million times, make sure that all the elements that

851
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: are in there makes make the listener feel like it's

852
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 2: just a cleaned up version. It's clarity. You bring clarity

853
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 2: to it, and wow, this is just sounds so clear.

854
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 2: I mean, for example, Nick Davis remixed the Lamb right,

855
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 2: and I said, up a list of notes of shitt

856
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: he missed, Like, dude, you miss these things that I

857
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: remember from my youth or not not in the mix?

858
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: Now what happened? Did you not listen to the rough?

859
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: Did you not check what you were doing? Do you

860
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 2: not know what you're doing? I mean, now, if gild

861
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: goes back and changes history, then call it something else,

862
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: you know, call you know, reducts.

863
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 3: You give it a new name.

864
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: But you know, if you're going to remix it and

865
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 2: clean it up, clean it up, make it clear, make

866
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: it separate, but don't don't kill it for the listener.

867
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 3: It's not fair.

868
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: I'm just worried those will become the standard as time

869
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: goes on. So your first gig is what.

870
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 3: Oh oh?

871
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: Back to the beginning. The first gig. I walked in

872
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 2: on when I was doing getting the job. The first

873
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: day of introduction, they're cutting Van McCoy.

874
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 1: Do the hustle really well, let's go a little bit slower.

875
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 3: How do you get the gig? Well?

876
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: I mean, my mom had friend ends and she basically said,

877
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: what do I do with this kid? He takes my

878
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: gear downstairs, he's always a tickering around with recording and

879
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 2: he won't go to school.

880
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: And her friend says, I know a guy. I know

881
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: a guy.

882
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 2: He's an engineer in the studio. Maybe he needs an assistant.

883
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: Maybe he could be there tea boy. So my mom said, hey,

884
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 2: I gotta we have an idea this date. This guy

885
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: may want to hire you in a recording studio. I'm like,

886
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: oh cool, I want to see a recording studio.

887
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: Let's go. So we went up to H and L.

888
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 3: Hugo and Luigi's studio, which.

889
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: Had just just got in the twenty four track console

890
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 2: just got a twenty four track tape machine. Twenty four jack,

891
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 2: twenty four track just came out and it had an

892
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: MCI console, a pair of ortones and some big reds.

893
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: And I went there and they're tracking due to hustle,

894
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: and I was just like, this is the place for me.

895
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: I gotta ask they're tracking through the hustle, do you

896
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: hear it as a hit?

897
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: I was so enamored with, you know, the hearing a

898
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: band play because I only hear I didn't hear the

899
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: vocals yet. I only heard the track, you know, I

900
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 2: didn't know what it was. I only heard like the

901
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: basic track, you know, I did not hear and it's

902
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: kind of an instrumental anyway, but I heard it. I

903
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: was so enamored. I didn't even think about that aspect though.

904
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: So where was the studio and who were these two guys?

905
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 2: Hugo and Luigi are a songwriter's production team that did

906
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: a lot of the Philly sound, the stylistics, the soft homes.

907
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: They wrote the Lions Sleeps Tonight, They wrote a lot

908
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: of a couple of things that actually wrote a song,

909
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: a couple of songs for Elvis.

910
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 3: I think a couple Italian guys, you know that had

911
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 3: the Philly sound.

912
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: They had a little company going on and the engineer

913
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 2: Steve Jerome, he was my mentor, and they were writing

914
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: on Angle with Cliffs on Route nine W a quarter

915
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: mile down the road.

916
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: From Rudy van.

917
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: Gelder studio and what was going on in that studio.

918
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 3: I never got to go in. He never let anybody

919
00:47:58,840 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: in there.

920
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're there the first day, they're tracking the hustle.

921
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,959
Speaker 1: What do they have you doing when you start going there?

922
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: Literally in the beginning, Steve was a very tough teacher,

923
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: but he was one hundred percent right, and I thank

924
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 2: him every single day. He taught me to listen and

925
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: pay attention and shut up, do not speak, do what

926
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: you're told, and watch, watch the ball, watch what we're doing.

927
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 3: Okay, very simple.

928
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: So I started out by wrapping mike cables and helping

929
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 2: with set up and cleaning up.

930
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 3: You know.

931
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 2: I went through the paces. I mean, he'd show me

932
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 2: how to wrap a mic cable. I would do it.

933
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: He'd say, no, that's wrong. You throw them all down

934
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 2: and make me do it again.

935
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 3: You know.

936
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: He said, you got to pay attention to what I'm

937
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: telling and showing you, and that went a long way.

938
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: Writing track sheets a track sheet and then sitting there

939
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: and running the remote and punching and record. So I

940
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 2: used to run the remote. If they're doing vocals, I'd

941
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: I'd watch a hand signal and punch record and watch

942
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: another hand signal to punch out. The hand signals got

943
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 2: smaller and the gesterres, the gestures got to the point

944
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 2: what was barely a wink because they knew I was

945
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 2: watching so and then if I missed, he goes, what

946
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: do you want vacation over there? He's comment through constant

947
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 2: So No, the embarrassment, the constant ridiculing and embarrassment, it

948
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: makes you have a tough skin. But you know what,

949
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: I got a lot of respect after a while because

950
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 2: Steve would say, just get over here, Chris. He's the best. No,

951
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 2: he can't rattle him. No matter what you do. He's

952
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: on it. He pays attention. And I kept my mouth

953
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 2: shut and he's it's right.

954
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 3: You know what.

955
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: Only speak when you're spoken to, okay, And because you're

956
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 2: you're part of the machine and you got to make

957
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: it work, and you know, you get respect. And when

958
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: you're told how to do something, do it their way

959
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: until it's your place.

960
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 3: Don't don't undermine the boss.

961
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: Ever, you're the assistant and I could be an assistant

962
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: tomorrow anytime.

963
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: What kind of records were they cutting? Were you gutting?

964
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 2: It was all? It was all twenty four track. It

965
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 2: was all R and B and soul, you know, Philly soul.

966
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: He cut a song a day.

967
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: I mean it was always you know, you'd be tracking

968
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: all the time, and then literally it got taken over

969
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: by sugar Hill Records.

970
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: Before sugar Hill. How do you end up touching the board?

971
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,439
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean I'm sitting I'm sitting to the left

972
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 2: of Steve. Okay, I'm the assistant. And when he would

973
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 2: get up, I said, it the board okay, and I'll

974
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: just continue with what he was doing. So if we're

975
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: doing vocals, I'm sitting there on the talkback, I'm riding

976
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: and faders whatever. When we were when he when he

977
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: was mixing, I'd have to pay attention and he'd say, okay,

978
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: now you print the TV track in the instrumental. So

979
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 2: I'd have to watch what he did and do it,

980
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 2: and he'd watch me do it and he taught me.

981
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 3: So he taught me to do it his way and

982
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:01,240
Speaker 3: it was very smart.

983
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: So when did you have your first session alone behind

984
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: the board.

985
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,439
Speaker 2: Ah, the first weekend I could sneak in. Uh, well,

986
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: I had the keys. Once I had the keys, you know,

987
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 2: who knows what happened? I mean, as soon as I

988
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: had the keys, it was like the first no storm.

989
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: Me and my band are in there sneaking in the record.

990
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 2: We would like cut some tracks in our basement, then

991
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: overdub guitars and vocals at the studio because we get

992
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 2: away with it. It didn't really you know a vocal miight,

993
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: you know, easy to get you know high from there.

994
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 3: But uh no. My first session was with my mom.

995
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: He let me have a day free to record my

996
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 2: mom an album with my mom, which was a lot

997
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: of fun.

998
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: Okay. Usually when you're the low man on the totem

999
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: poll at the studio, you're working like ninety hours a week.

1000
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Mom would drop me off and then

1001
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 2: picked me up after her gig at night, so a

1002
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 2: lot of time as you go up the street for

1003
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,439
Speaker 2: Chinese you know whatever, nine ten, eleven o'clock late, and yeah,

1004
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,239
Speaker 2: we worked late. I mean it was basically ten to

1005
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 2: ten every day. So if I was lucky, it was less.

1006
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 2: But I loved it. I didn't even look at the clock.

1007
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 2: When you're that age, you didn't look at the clock.

1008
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: Who cared I do?

1009
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: No?

1010
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I like ten to seven, I can't go board,

1011
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 2: you know the nine hours.

1012
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: Okay, so how long before sugar Hill takes it off.

1013
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 2: It's a few years, It's like five, six years, and

1014
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: then they sell to to sugar Hill, and then it

1015
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 2: becomes a whole different thing. It's a whole different You're

1016
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: making different records then, and then yeah, you have two

1017
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 2: studios now, And it was great. It was that experience.

1018
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: At that point I knew, you know, I was an engineer.

1019
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 2: I could handle it. And I mean I worked, you know.

1020
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: I mean they had sugar Hill, they did Rappers Delight

1021
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: and then that became a big hit. So then after

1022
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 2: that we started cutting everything. And one of the big

1023
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: things we did there was the Message by Grand Master Flash,

1024
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 2: which I sat with Steven engineered the whole thing and

1025
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 2: printed all a mixes and even ran mixes, and I

1026
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 2: became friends with Doug Wimbish and to this day we're

1027
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 2: all lifelong friends.

1028
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: Okay, those are different records. Those are great records. But

1029
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: is there any genre of music you will say no,

1030
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: I won't mix that.

1031
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 2: I don't really say no, But at this point, the

1032
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 2: rap from that era, okay, those records, I was okay

1033
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: because I was part of it, you know, it was

1034
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: part of my upbringing right now, like the rap the

1035
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 2: rapper those records. Now, it's like it doesn't really interest

1036
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 2: me because I think I had that early in my career.

1037
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: I need I need melody, I need musicality. Don't don't

1038
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: get me wrong. There's if it's a hit, it's got

1039
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: a great melody or a lyric, it's fine, but it's

1040
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: not gonna be what I'm going to go for. You know,

1041
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: it's not my wheelhouse. Everything else jazz, rock, country, Western,

1042
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 2: I do country and Western.

1043
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. Good song is a good song.

1044
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: I've had Slipknot in the morning and Michael Booble at

1045
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: night doesn't matter.

1046
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: Okay, So how long is it sugar Hill? And what

1047
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: do you do next?

1048
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 2: Well, after sugar Hill was only a couple of years.

1049
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,439
Speaker 2: I literally got fired for using the studio at night

1050
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: without asking. I walked into Joe Robinson's office with the

1051
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: invoice and a check from the client, and I said,

1052
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: I didn't want to wake you up, because you know

1053
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 2: we had we were finishing latest client wanted to come

1054
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 2: into Look, can I book the room to do vocals

1055
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: between three am and six am?

1056
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 3: Okay?

1057
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: And I handed them all at and still it was like, well,

1058
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: you use my room. You know, you did stuff without asking. Okay,

1059
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 2: I'm available twenty four hours that you and you're asked,

1060
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:53,919
Speaker 2: you're out.

1061
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 3: Of here, really okay?

1062
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 2: And and it was probably a blessing because after that

1063
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: they weren't doing that great. I ended up going to

1064
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 2: New York and starting as an assistant. I went right

1065
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 2: back to nothing and became an assistant at a unique recording.

1066
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: How'd you literally get that job? You'd knock on a

1067
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 1: million doors.

1068
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: No, some I had, you know, right after sugar Hill,

1069
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 2: my friends were doing stuff independently, and you know, some

1070
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: friends that I had worked with there said had me

1071
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: do some stuff with them, and they I don't know

1072
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: who recommended it, but one of the sessions was a unique.

1073
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 2: So my first time there is I was working with them.

1074
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 2: I met the owners and they were interested in you know,

1075
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: I told them what I did, and they was interested

1076
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: in hiring me, so they literally hired me on the spot.

1077
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 2: I was happy, but I literally back to being an assistant.

1078
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: I remember working on a session in the b room

1079
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 2: on eight track. They had an eight track in that room,

1080
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: or they had an eight track machine. They also had

1081
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: a sixteen track. I remember working on that and on

1082
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 2: an older board, and you know you start back at

1083
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: the beginning.

1084
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: So what were the steps of moving back up the ladder?

1085
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 3: It didn't take that long before am I.

1086
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 2: You know, my popularity increased and I was doing more

1087
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: and more, and literally as years went on with all

1088
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 2: the remixes with Arthur Baker and working with all these

1089
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 2: you know, other artists, I started, you know, getting some

1090
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 2: producers that just wanted to use me.

1091
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. Wait, wait, you're the assistant. How

1092
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: do you end up becoming a remixer unique?

1093
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 2: Well, okay, you're an assistant. How do you become a

1094
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 2: popular engineer? Well by making rough mixes that they really

1095
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: get excited about. So how you got you know, how

1096
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: you get a fan base back then? Was Hey, client

1097
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 2: comes in to do a vocal overdub or a guitar

1098
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 2: or something, right, and you're the assistant or you're the

1099
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,919
Speaker 2: engineer in a session. Well, you make a kick ass

1100
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: rough mix on their cassette form, and then they're like, man,

1101
00:56:58,680 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 2: this sounds cure.

1102
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 3: I got to use that guy again.

1103
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: And then they and then they tell their friend and

1104
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: then their friend comes in and you again, you make

1105
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 2: a great rough mix.

1106
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: On the cassette and then oh I love this, And

1107
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 3: then the.

1108
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: Studio manager and the other engineers working there are all

1109
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: pissed off at you because you're making these roughs. He goes, well,

1110
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be you know, you shouldn't be making a

1111
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: rough like that. Well, I just want to sound like

1112
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 2: a record. So you know, they got well, you're making

1113
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 2: it harder for us. I'm like, well, then you need

1114
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 2: to work harder. I don't know, I only hear what.

1115
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: I just want to sell, like a hit record whatever.

1116
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 2: So you know, it wasn't about just do a vocal,

1117
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 2: make a quick mix and give it to him. No,

1118
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 2: do whatever OVERB you're gonna do and make it sound

1119
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: good for him, because that's what you do.

1120
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: I mean, that's like your job.

1121
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: So I really enjoyed that aspect of it, and that's

1122
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: what opened up all the doors because then they all want,

1123
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 2: Oh I want Chris.

1124
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 3: Chris. Chris is the guy. Oh I need Chris.

1125
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, you know, producers are like, yeah,

1126
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: Chris is the guy. Chris is gonna work on this,

1127
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 2: and that that got me to doing more stuff.

1128
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, how long did you work it unique before you

1129
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: went Independent or where'd you go next?

1130
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, while I was working Unique that I started

1131
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 2: also working at other studios, Hit Factory with Troy.

1132
00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: I really liked Hit.

1133
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: Factory and and Eddie Jermon owner really wanted me and

1134
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: my brothers over there. He'd do anything to get us there,

1135
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 2: so they whatever I wanted. So I would work a

1136
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 2: lot of and a Hit Factory because a lot of

1137
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 2: the clients wanted to up They wanted to upgrade. You know,

1138
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: the clients wanted to go to Hit Factory is beautiful

1139
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: and uh, all the all the big artists worked at

1140
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 2: the Hit Factory, so I did more there. The powder Station,

1141
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: I mean the power station. We called the powder station

1142
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: for another reason. I got to really I can't imagine

1143
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 2: what that might be exactly, So I still call it

1144
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 2: the powder station because you know, Skeletor would be my

1145
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 2: uh my duck, my dealer, and he'd always be there

1146
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 2: for in the morning when we ran out of blow.

1147
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 2: So it beat Skeletor, but Hit a Hit Factory, Electric

1148
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 2: Lady was so the only real real rooms that I

1149
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 2: got familiar with was the old Media Sound and then

1150
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 2: Hit Factory and then Lady and of course Unique. After

1151
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: a while, i'd you know, after I don't know, late

1152
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 2: eighties or mid eighties, I was already out of Unique

1153
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 2: and just just a hit factory.

1154
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: Okay. When you went to Unique, you were on salary yep, okay,

1155
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 1: and you were doing stuff at the Hit Factory and

1156
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: the so called powder station on your own free time.

1157
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: Right when I started going independent from Unique, I now,

1158
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember my first like manager Stu Silfin,

1159
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 2: my first lawyer. He would get me involved in some

1160
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: of his connections to get different clients. So if I

1161
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: went to the Hit Factory, I could steal any client,

1162
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 2: and people knew I was the ultimate client thief because

1163
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 2: once I go in there, they can't go in there

1164
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 2: because me and Tommy, well I will first. I always

1165
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: grabbed the client, and once they work with me, they

1166
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 2: don't work with anybody else. So I was getting a

1167
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: little bit of that reputation for doing that. But because I

1168
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: had different energy and I was a little bit more experienced,

1169
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: and you.

1170
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: Know, I wanted to be in charge.

1171
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 2: I want it to be my way, So people just

1172
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: liked my way, like like when you go to I

1173
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: don't know, the.

1174
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 3: Subplace and Mike's Mike's way or whatever.

1175
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: I just heard it my head a certain way, and

1176
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 2: I make everything go that way and people liked it,

1177
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 2: so that caught me those gigs.

1178
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: Was there a specific record that was a breakthrough for you.

1179
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 2: I would think that Living in America that I did

1180
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: with Dan was a good door kicker. There was a

1181
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: lot of the remixes like let the Music Play and

1182
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: some Shannon stuff. There was some of those one offs

1183
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: that I did with Carl Sturk and Devin Rodgers. Those

1184
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 2: did well well. Some of the remixes that did with

1185
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: Arthur got me visually in there. But yeah, I mean

1186
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 2: the Living in America that really started to open the door,

1187
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 2: because you know, I'd worked with Dan Hartman, so as

1188
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 2: soon as I met Dan Hartman as a producer, I

1189
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 2: did everything for Dan and he.

1190
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 3: Had a hell of a run.

1191
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: And unchained my heart by Joe came out after that,

1192
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: and then we did Tina Turn a Foreign Affair and

1193
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 2: you know, and a few other things that we did.

1194
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 2: And then when the Windward thing came in with Russ

1195
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 2: and I was there, I was doing it, and that's

1196
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 2: how Tommy got involved. So I eventually had tom and

1197
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 2: Jeff both there. I both my brothers come to Unique

1198
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: to work with me, and the owner really.

1199
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: Couldn't do anything about it. I love Bobby and Joey Inn.

1200
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 2: They just went with it because you know what Chris

1201
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: is doing great for He's bringing great clients and yeah,

1202
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 2: whatever he wants to do. So I brought my brothers

1203
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 2: in and they fast tracked into working with me, and

1204
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 2: they fast tracked it to.

1205
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 3: The bigger gigs.

1206
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 2: They didn't go through the channels, they didn't go up

1207
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: the stairs, they just took the elevator. I went with me,

1208
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 2: so you know, that's how Tommy got the gig. And

1209
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 2: I'd be producing a band and Tommy's there assisting and

1210
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: Jeff's they're assisting and we're all screwed around because I

1211
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 2: was a bit of a mad scientist. So like when

1212
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: the Lord Algie's are there, well, they're in charge whatever

1213
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 2: they want to do, and they're.

1214
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 3: Having fun and they're enjoying it.

1215
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 2: And it's great fun every day experimenting producing because when

1216
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: I was producing, it was just a free throw. I

1217
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 2: had so much fun. And with Windwood it was like

1218
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 2: every day. With Tommy, I'm like, man, because I couldn't

1219
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 2: wait for rusting it off the phone and sit there

1220
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 2: all day I had I had Dan at the other studio.

1221
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: I got to work on this other stuff. I didn't

1222
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: have the patience to sit around and wait. But Tommy

1223
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: learned from me really quick on that, and I pushed it, pushed,

1224
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 2: and I walked away from I didn't I didn't care

1225
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: if it was gonna do well or not. I just

1226
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 2: cared that my brother was gonna win, get this gig

1227
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 2: and boom. That's because it was for mom. Mom knew

1228
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 2: I was doing it. I did it for Mom. I

1229
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 2: want to make sure that both of us now are equals.

1230
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 2: Like one record, he went from from nothing to where

1231
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 2: both equals, if not him being bigger because of that record.

1232
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're a remixer, how do you end up

1233
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: producing records?

1234
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 2: Well, I you know I. I was always involved in

1235
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 2: the production side of it, and everyone saw it, so

1236
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 2: I would have found. I found a band, I got

1237
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 2: it signed to Electra, I started producing it. Then Ultra

1238
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: gave me a couple more bands to produce. So eighty three,

1239
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 2: eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, I had a bunch

1240
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 2: of records. I produced band called Xavion, an Electra, a band,

1241
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: an artist called Alan Vega. He was the half of

1242
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 2: the art band's Suicide. He was the singer. I produced

1243
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 2: a record for him. I could even sing. But I

1244
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: came up with great tracks with Rick Acaystik and did

1245
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 2: that broke a band called World of the Glance.

1246
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 3: I got signed to Elektra and we made a record.

1247
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 2: And then I had people in coming and just wanted

1248
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: me to produce their stuff with them. And you know,

1249
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 2: they didn't have a lyric and say, hey, cut a

1250
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: track to this. Or there was an album called beat

1251
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: Street that that Arthur was cutting for, you know, for

1252
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 2: the movie. And I would just come up with these

1253
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 2: songs for b Street with him, you know, and just

1254
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 2: kept going. So I love that side of it. What's

1255
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 2: the key to being a good producer making decisions?

1256
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 3: It's that simple. But no, it's not just that.

1257
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 2: Being a good producer is about ninety percent bedside matter.

1258
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 3: Okay.

1259
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 2: So you have to win over the artists and show

1260
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 2: them that you're confident and that you know what they want, okay,

1261
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 2: and you know what deliver it, and making decisions is everything.

1262
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 2: You waffle one second, that's a problem. So whether it's

1263
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: a vocal that's good or a drum sound or drum

1264
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 2: fill or guitar lift. Yes, yes, that's good, No, that's

1265
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 2: not good.

1266
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:13,479
Speaker 3: Do it again.

1267
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: Being able to make those snap decisions and have a

1268
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 2: big vision, that's what.

1269
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 3: Makes a great producer.

1270
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 2: You could always go back and said, you know what,

1271
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 2: let's do those guitars over today.

1272
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 3: I think what we did yesterday, I think we rushed it.

1273
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 3: Let's go again.

1274
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 2: You got to make a decision, and you got to

1275
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 2: you know, you have to drive run the ship. You

1276
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: have to be in control. Some people work really fast.

1277
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 2: Other people work at a glacial past. If I hire you,

1278
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 2: what kind of speed are we working at? At light

1279
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,240
Speaker 2: at lightning, it's like back in the future when it

1280
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 2: hits eighty eight miles an hour. You can't work as

1281
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 2: fast as possible because think about this, all right, a song,

1282
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 2: a song can get tiring so fast, okay, it's it

1283
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 2: can spoil so quick. So you got to be in

1284
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 2: the heat of the action. So when you record a song,

1285
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 2: create a song, the quicker you do it, the more

1286
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 2: you keep all that energy in there, the more you

1287
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 2: labor over it, the more it becomes just like digging

1288
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: a grave.

1289
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 3: It's just it's a drag and it's it's just human nature.

1290
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 2: The more you hear it, the more you either like

1291
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 2: it the way you have it, you have you lose.

1292
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 3: All all all concept of it.

1293
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 2: So I would I like to work fast and then

1294
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 2: put the song on the side a couple of weeks later,

1295
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 2: put it up to mix it, and then you know,

1296
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: clean it up and go. I mean, look, get that impression,

1297
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 2: make that timestamp. But sometimes people will work at a

1298
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 2: glacier pace and the song did not improve from the demo.

1299
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 2: It actually got worse and more boring. I want to

1300
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 2: keep the energy, you know, what makes the song interesting,

1301
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 2: the story.

1302
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: And what about recording live? Everybody there or everybody uh separately.

1303
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: I mean I think the days, you know, the days

1304
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 2: of cutting live, and I've done a bunch of that

1305
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: and I've seen it work. You get if you get

1306
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: the A team out there, I mean the A team

1307
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 2: you can cut you live, okay. And but mostly what

1308
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 2: we do is the drummers out in the room okay,

1309
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 2: everybody's in the control room playing and we get the

1310
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 2: bones of what's going to work for the song okay,

1311
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 2: and we just get to we get the drums on it,

1312
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 2: and a lot of time we just take. We'll make

1313
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: the drummer, just play a little drum loop okay of

1314
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 2: the pattern, and we'll build the track on that and

1315
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: it puts drums on.

1316
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 3: Last. Most of the records I produced that were built

1317
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 3: that way.

1318
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 2: Drums are the last thing we put on because everything

1319
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 2: was built around good timing okay, almost like a grid,

1320
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: so it was easier and records.

1321
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 3: Now. More of the stuff I make now it's done

1322
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:51,919
Speaker 3: that way.

1323
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 2: And because of the technology we have, we could just

1324
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 2: send files to a bass player here, guitar player there,

1325
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 2: a drummer here. I mean the stuff I news, I

1326
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 2: said the guy you know, it'll be like a drum

1327
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 2: loop I created with a machine and have him planned

1328
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 2: in his house to send me to files whatever it takes.

1329
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about your lawyer. To what degree have

1330
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 1: you had a manager or have the gigs just come

1331
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: to you as or somebody in between.

1332
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 2: I've I've always had a manager. I mean I had

1333
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 2: a brief run without one. When I first moved to

1334
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 2: LA I got a manager named Steve Moyer and that

1335
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 2: was his first engineer mixer client, and he was the

1336
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 2: first manager of a mixer, an engineer, and we had

1337
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: a hell of a run because he knew, you know,

1338
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 2: he worked at labels. He knew these people said hey,

1339
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 2: yeah right, Chris set in the files, give me a shot.

1340
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 2: So look, you're the new kid in town. Everybody wants

1341
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: to try you. And that worked out great. And then

1342
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 2: I Leah Fahlberg, and then I went back to Bennett

1343
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 2: Kaufman who worked for Steve, and.

1344
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 3: Now I have Stephen Rosen.

1345
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 2: And it's about just putting me in positions that that

1346
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:08,839
Speaker 2: I don't get into. I mean, most of the clients

1347
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 2: text or call me or email me, you know, the

1348
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 2: repeat customers, they just come to me direct. But but

1349
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: you know, with the manager, you get you get clients

1350
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 2: that you would not normally get, situations that are different

1351
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 2: people you don't have a connection with.

1352
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: Okay, in the old days, the sixties and seventies, a

1353
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 1: lot of times the engineer cut the record, mixed it.

1354
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: So how did that change?

1355
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 2: Bob clear Mountain changed it good. Yeah, it was like

1356
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 2: that until Bob Clearmountain or Michael Brower. I mean, I

1357
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 2: just say, Bob Clearmount Broward would probably disagree with me.

1358
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 2: There was a handful of situations where the mixer didn't

1359
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 2: have his credit on the record. And but For me,

1360
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 2: it was Bob okay, so we just wanted to clear

1361
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 2: the mountain. We wanted a shot, so he became the gunslinger. Yes,

1362
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 2: most of the engineer mixed the record. That was part

1363
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 2: of your job. The mix was the easy part. You'd

1364
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 2: make the record and when the last over deebleon on it,

1365
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 2: you do your twiddling and that was it.

1366
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 3: That was done. That's how I.

1367
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: Learned that the engineer mixed it after the last over though,

1368
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 2: and that's it goes to mastering. But then we move

1369
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 2: on to Bob clear mountain, taking a song and mixing it.

1370
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 2: And the great thing about that for me and I

1371
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 2: think for him, is that you get the file, you

1372
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 2: get the tape, you put it up, you get your

1373
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 2: first impression, and you go with it.

1374
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 3: Okay. It's like a first date. Okay.

1375
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 2: All the good stuff you ever want happens on that

1376
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 2: one day, so you only have to care about it.

1377
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 3: You don't have to live with it for months. Okay.

1378
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 2: So if you compare it to a first date, you

1379
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 2: don't have to meet the family, the brothers and sisters,

1380
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 2: the cousins, the Christmases, the thanksgivings. You just it is

1381
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 2: have fun that one day it's over. So your first

1382
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 2: impression on the song is always the best. So you

1383
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 2: have no preconceived notions and you just go with it.

1384
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 2: And I think that is the most successful thing a

1385
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:17,799
Speaker 2: producer can have, is that mixer who only hears it

1386
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 2: the first time when he puts it up, and then

1387
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:24,879
Speaker 2: that's the great partnership between music creation and music finishing.

1388
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 2: Is that first impression mixer that only hears it, and

1389
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 2: his impression usually is what makes the song work.

1390
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 1: Okay, you know you're gonna mix a record. To what

1391
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 1: degree do the producers or the act give you input

1392
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 1: or what degree is Chris, we did it here? It

1393
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:43,719
Speaker 1: is do your magic.

1394
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there one hundred percent. There's I have clients

1395
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 2: that just Chris, just do your magic. I know what

1396
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 2: you do, I know what you're gonna do, I know

1397
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 2: what to expect.

1398
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:54,920
Speaker 3: Just do it.

1399
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 2: And then there's clients and you have artists that took

1400
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 2: home a copy of the Roff and you listen to

1401
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,560
Speaker 2: it two, three, four, five, ten, twenty times. That's the

1402
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 2: kiss of death. Then you have that marriage the artist

1403
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 2: has with the ruff, and you got to beat the ruff.

1404
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,320
Speaker 2: You gotta supersize it. Okay, so you're a bit shackled

1405
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 2: to that version. Look, once you heard a whole lot

1406
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:19,800
Speaker 2: of love ten times, do you want to hear it

1407
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 2: any differently? So look, the artist gets the first copy

1408
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 2: of the finished song, listen to it ten times, and

1409
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 2: you go to remix it. Well, if if you change

1410
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 2: it too much, you're like, well can you listen to

1411
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 2: the ruff? And you know the four words I hate

1412
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:42,280
Speaker 2: hearing are let's check the ruff. That means that you

1413
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: know there's something that I remember, and that takes the

1414
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 2: fun out of mixing, trust me.

1415
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 3: So the first thing I check is like, are you

1416
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 3: guys married to the rouff? How many times have you

1417
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 3: heard with it?

1418
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 2: Just want to know what kind of hell of getting

1419
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 2: myself in on because it's really no fun just matching

1420
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 2: the ruff and picking up where someone left off, because

1421
01:12:58,240 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 2: that's not mixing.

1422
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,439
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. Mixing is when you have

1423
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 3: free reign, do what you want.

1424
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 2: Because a lot of times I make a different arrangement

1425
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 2: or I turn stuff off that I think is excessive.

1426
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,400
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes they put frecking three pounds of a

1427
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,680
Speaker 2: lord in a one pound bag and it sucks, So

1428
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: I take half of it out and then all of

1429
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 2: a sudden the song comes back, or I make eight

1430
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 2: arrangements or changes. I have free will, I love free will,

1431
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:22,679
Speaker 2: free willie. You know they're not gonna do something different

1432
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 2: that can show you what I think it should do,

1433
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 2: or edits or shortening it. Some of these songs are

1434
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 2: five and a half minutes long.

1435
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 3: What are you kidding?

1436
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,839
Speaker 2: No one's gonna care. They're looking at their watch, their bored.

1437
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 2: Come on, hurry up and get us to the goddamn

1438
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 2: corse before I fall asleep. So I try to bring

1439
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 2: that to it, you know, I try to bring that.

1440
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 2: Say look, here's what I think for your single three

1441
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 2: minutes to fifteen seconds ware bamp, thank you man, want

1442
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:46,120
Speaker 2: to hear it again?

1443
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:51,839
Speaker 1: How often do you finish the mix and the producer

1444
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 1: in the ax say, great, we're running with it, as

1445
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: opposed to, oh can we change this? Change that.

1446
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 2: I'd say ninety five percent they're good with it, and

1447
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 2: the other five percent or maybe is it eight percent,

1448
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 2: we'll have changes. I mean, we live in a world. Now,

1449
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,639
Speaker 2: I'll do a mix. I'll send that out on MP three.

1450
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 2: You know, I just I said that a specific way

1451
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 2: for a reference in a common format. Okay, and I'll

1452
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 2: wait to hear back. Okay. Sometimes it's days. Sometimes it's

1453
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 2: weeks before they even comment. My good clients, it's it's

1454
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 2: usually within ten minutes, okay. And if the artist here,

1455
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: obviously we close it right then and there. That's how

1456
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 2: it works.

1457
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: So do you want the artists there or you definitely

1458
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: don't want the artists there.

1459
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 2: There's certain situations where their ownership is the only way

1460
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 2: it gets closed. With green Day, they have to be

1461
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 2: here to hear it, and then if there's like a

1462
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: two percent change later, that's fine, but they have to

1463
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: be here to approve and check it. And I like that,

1464
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 2: and I find that with Dave Matthews. I find that

1465
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 2: with Look with Dwight Yoakum one hundred percent. He's got

1466
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 2: to be here with this little clip, you know, he

1467
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 2: has we have a way of doing things, and you know,

1468
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 2: it's stuff I work with John Shanks.

1469
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 3: You got to be here. I prefer it. Okay.

1470
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 2: It goes quicker that way because they're here, they own it.

1471
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 2: It's over, okay. And if something comes up later, we

1472
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 2: have a recall rally. We just you know, tweak a

1473
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 2: couple of songs. So, but there's a situation where I'd

1474
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 2: prefer to mix the whole album, have the band come

1475
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,720
Speaker 2: in for one day, review a couple of songs they

1476
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 2: want to change it, and then knock it out.

1477
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So how long does it take to do a mix?

1478
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 2: A couple hours? It depends on how messy the song is,

1479
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 2: how well put together it is. First you have to

1480
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 2: untangle it and make it manageable. So yeah, it can

1481
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 2: be a couple of hours. It just depends on how

1482
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 2: much focus I have. Because we live in a world

1483
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 2: where there's so many distractions, you got to shut it

1484
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 2: all off and do the job. So if I come

1485
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 2: in and shut it all off, which is what I

1486
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:10,920
Speaker 2: usually do, I just stay focused until it's done. I

1487
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 2: don't leave the room until I finish it. Then I

1488
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 2: check my phone, then I do that. You know, if

1489
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,080
Speaker 2: I have distractions, your phone calls, it's slows the process.

1490
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: Then, and how many can you do in a day

1491
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:22,799
Speaker 1: before you just can't do it anymore?

1492
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 2: You know, if I'm mixing an album where there's similarities

1493
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: in the recording from song to song two or three,

1494
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 2: sometimes four, I mean a cheap trick record, I've done

1495
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 2: seven in one day. Because you know, there because the

1496
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 2: recording is so similar that it's almost like a live album,

1497
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 2: you know, because a lot of it's very the same,

1498
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 2: So it's just you know, different transitions, so.

1499
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 3: It can happen that way.

1500
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: How often do you finish it and the act want

1501
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:58,560
Speaker 1: changes that you don't agree with? Then what do you say?

1502
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 2: I mean that, Like I said in the you know

1503
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 2: five to seven percent range, there's changes. Do I agree

1504
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 2: with them? Well, a lot of times no. Sometimes it's

1505
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 2: just personal taste or it's an arrangement thing. But when

1506
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,320
Speaker 2: there are things I don't agree with, then I know, well,

1507
01:17:16,360 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 2: you know what I If you want that much mayonnaise

1508
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 2: on your French fries, okay, here you go. I try

1509
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:23,960
Speaker 2: to talk them out of it, or I try to,

1510
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 2: you know, make the change where I'm happy with it

1511
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 2: still for me, you know, the mixer knows how he

1512
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 2: can make all these elements works and knows what the

1513
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,280
Speaker 2: give and take is. That's why you hire me because

1514
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,120
Speaker 2: I have the experience to know how I can make

1515
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,000
Speaker 2: all these puzzle pieces coexist.

1516
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

1517
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: And sometimes the minutia from a guitar player or a

1518
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 2: drummer or a bass player or whatever, it's always just

1519
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,599
Speaker 2: their personal interest being boosted or something that really doesn't

1520
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 2: help the mix, okay, or maybe something is because they're

1521
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,439
Speaker 2: hearing impaired or just something they heard in a rough mix.

1522
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 2: So I'm looking at the big picture, what makes the

1523
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:02,080
Speaker 2: song work?

1524
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:03,679
Speaker 3: Okay? And is this going to help?

1525
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 1: Okay? Let's go back to the producing end. To what

1526
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: degree do you tell them to change the song, rearrange

1527
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: the song or you're more just getting it down and

1528
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: making decisions.

1529
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 2: I mean, we get it down and I take the

1530
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 2: file home and I change the arrangement, I change parts,

1531
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 2: I'll replay things. Okay, with a young artists that up producing,

1532
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,640
Speaker 2: I mean I'll take his demo and I'll cut it

1533
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 2: up and change the arrangement and we'll replay all the parts.

1534
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean while we're in here working on

1535
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 2: it together, we'll work on the arrangement right away. I mean,

1536
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 2: the most important thing is the arrangement and the key.

1537
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 2: Everything else is just minutia. It doesn't matter. A melody,

1538
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,240
Speaker 2: a tempo, and an arrangement. Those are the first three

1539
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:51,839
Speaker 2: building blocks of a song. After that it's all personal

1540
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 2: taste or what you want to do to the song,

1541
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 2: and then that's what works.

1542
01:18:58,680 --> 01:18:59,719
Speaker 1: And what about lyrics.

1543
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 2: Lyrics are important and all but lyrics are Lyrics are

1544
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 2: very important, but they're also a personal journey because most

1545
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:11,640
Speaker 2: of the lyrics are about, uh, something can happen in

1546
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 2: your life, Okay. So I try to help them make

1547
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:17,600
Speaker 2: sure that the lyrics make sense and we can understand

1548
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 2: the lyrics. Okay, And sometimes I change to say will

1549
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 2: this be better? Doesn't it mean the same if you

1550
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 2: say this versus that, because what you're saying there is

1551
01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 2: a little bit of a tongue tie.

1552
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 3: Is this easier? Does this sing better?

1553
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,679
Speaker 2: So I'll change it with them if it sings better,

1554
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 2: if it gets the point across. And then there's the

1555
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:38,599
Speaker 2: problems where if a song has fucking it do you have?

1556
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 2: Can you say something else? No? Just beep it, dude. No,

1557
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 2: if the song's called fuck the world, can you say

1558
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 2: something else? Because that's gonna cause you a problem, no

1559
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 2: matter what about judging it?

1560
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 3: All right?

1561
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 2: Great, fine, whatever you know? That's you know in a mix.

1562
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 2: So I always encourage ours. If you're gonna say fuck

1563
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 2: or you're gonna swear, come on, let's at least have

1564
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:02,040
Speaker 2: an alternate lyric for the Bible belt.

1565
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: Okay, how often you put up a mix and you

1566
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: hear a hit and you know it when you hear.

1567
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 2: It A lot, a lot, I mean a lot. I

1568
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,599
Speaker 2: can tell that these puzzle pieces are working.

1569
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 3: And I call it the fly paper effect.

1570
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 2: Okay, If I can walk out of the room, get

1571
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 2: on the phone, hear the news, hear another song, and

1572
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 2: still remember this one, that's the beginnings of a hit

1573
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 2: for me. If I wake up the next morning after

1574
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,479
Speaker 2: hearing a bunch of other things and still remember that song,

1575
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 2: it's a hit. It's like the bottom being song with

1576
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:43,600
Speaker 2: Green Day. But no, no, no, no, no, no no no

1577
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: no no no, like no matter what, I can still

1578
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 2: hear that melody botta bing botta bing botta boo's.

1579
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:51,960
Speaker 3: I don't know why.

1580
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 2: It's a stupid part, but it's it's to catch you

1581
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 2: as shit. So if I can remember that, then I

1582
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 2: feel it it stands a chance.

1583
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:02,320
Speaker 1: How'd you get to work with Green Day?

1584
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 2: I mean I was working with Rob way back.

1585
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:08,360
Speaker 3: I was working with Rob Canvalla.

1586
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 2: He had this band called Kars Flowers that was the

1587
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 2: makings of Maroon five, and we started our friendship there

1588
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:18,080
Speaker 2: and we moved through a bunch of different artists and

1589
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 2: then this Nimrod album came along and he wanted me

1590
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 2: to take a whack at it for him, and and

1591
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 2: the rest is history, I mean, and then we worked

1592
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 2: on a bunch together. They took a break from me

1593
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 2: for a record or two, and then they came back

1594
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 2: again recently and it's working for them. And I personally

1595
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 2: think when a band creates a team that worked, stick

1596
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 2: with it, because those other flavors of the week don't

1597
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 2: know where the bodies are buried and don't know how

1598
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 2: to put those puzzle pieces together. Okay, they just they're

1599
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:49,879
Speaker 2: a shinier new hot fudged Sunday.

1600
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 1: So how does it feel when someone says we're going

1601
01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 1: to go another way?

1602
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 3: I have no issue.

1603
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 2: I don't take it personally, Okay, I'll say, like, look,

1604
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 2: let's do this. Give me the song that your guys

1605
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,080
Speaker 2: gonna do, and at least let me send you in

1606
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 2: a mix that my mix, and you guys can blind

1607
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,799
Speaker 2: you know, blind test it. Just do a blind tasting. Whatever,

1608
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:14,760
Speaker 2: pick the winner. That's happened once in a while, and

1609
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 2: as long as it's fair, it's a you know, as

1610
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 2: long as it's fair and everything's the same volume, you

1611
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 2: let the artist pick maybe maybe the new guy's better.

1612
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 3: You know, I have no I have no personal thing

1613
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 3: about it. Yeah.

1614
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 2: I like to win, and I could be a real

1615
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:33,480
Speaker 2: asshole about it, but I don't like to be discounted,

1616
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 2: like at least give me a chance, you know. With

1617
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 2: Peter Gabriel, I kept emailing him and by large, give

1618
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 2: me a chance to mix a song for free. I'll

1619
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 2: even pay you. I just want a mix on the record.

1620
01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 2: Is it that hard to let me have a file?

1621
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 2: I just wanted a shot, that's all.

1622
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 3: Don't care. I just like Peter Gabriel.

1623
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: What's the state of the remixing business?

1624
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 2: Too? Well, the remixing it's like, what's the state of

1625
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: the mixing business?

1626
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 3: Right? Right?

1627
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,080
Speaker 2: I mean the mixing business is basically chosen by the

1628
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 2: producer and the artist, Okay, or the label or the manager.

1629
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,519
Speaker 2: But I think it's really producer driven and the artists

1630
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 2: they usually pick. Remixing is the problem more in right

1631
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:31,320
Speaker 2: now because of that most But no, the mixing is

1632
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 2: still it's really it's simple a lot of times. Remember,

1633
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 2: you know, the artist has your little team, and that's

1634
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 2: how it goes. Hiring out a gun slinger like me

1635
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 2: and Bob isn't as frequent as it used to be

1636
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 2: because they can all mix in their bathrooms at this point.

1637
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,639
Speaker 2: But still there is the knowledge that your fan base

1638
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 2: wants a cla or a clear Mountain or this guy

1639
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 2: or it's you know or Serbon Serbon who mixes like

1640
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 2: all the tale all the big pop stuff because he's good, right,

1641
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 2: so you get your run, So it's loyalty. The remixing

1642
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 2: problem I see is in the atmost stuff, and it's

1643
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 2: getting sorted out. In the beginnings of atmost stereo. You know,

1644
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 2: Apple's Atmost I call Apples atmost. They needed content anyway

1645
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:26,760
Speaker 2: they could get it, so regardless of who did it,

1646
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 2: they made some mistakes. And for me, unless the mix

1647
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,759
Speaker 2: is approved by the artists that originally did it, it's.

1648
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:38,040
Speaker 3: Not fair to put it out. To put it up

1649
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:38,799
Speaker 3: on the site.

1650
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:42,719
Speaker 2: So whether it's Rebel Yell, whether it's unless the whole

1651
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 2: band is dead and there's nobody around going to improve it,

1652
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 2: well whatever, but make sure the artist gets at least

1653
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 2: to hear it and say, yeah, that's good, I like it.

1654
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 3: I'll sign off on that.

1655
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 2: It's respect that something they created that you manipulate for

1656
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 2: a new format, that they get to prove it.

1657
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:04,639
Speaker 3: That's simple, and that wasn't happening.

1658
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 1: Okay. You know, the business has evolved like everything else.

1659
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:15,280
Speaker 1: And for the last twenty years, labels we're talking about

1660
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: a major label will invest in a single song, they'll

1661
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:22,560
Speaker 1: get additional songwriters, et cetera, and they'll pay a producer

1662
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 1: an unbelievable premium and a remixer an unbelievable premium. Is

1663
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: that's something that's in the world that you're in because

1664
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:35,719
Speaker 1: in a lot of other worlds, uh, mastering, the prices

1665
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: have dropped to the floor. Okay, another thing, So what's

1666
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: the status? What's what's going on in your world?

1667
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,639
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't you know the pop world where

1668
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,160
Speaker 2: they're you know, they're going through that. I'm not that

1669
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 2: much involved because I get the song when it's done. Okay,

1670
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 2: when it's all done and they want they want somebody

1671
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 2: else to mix it, I do it, okay. So that

1672
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 2: world mastering, they usually want my choice.

1673
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,800
Speaker 3: Okay. If and if they.

1674
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 2: Don't like what he did, well I'll have him try

1675
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 2: to make him better. Okay, the stuff they'll you know,

1676
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:13,880
Speaker 2: the uh, that's where my business is. So it's pretty

1677
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 2: much straight fan base. People send you stuff to work on,

1678
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:21,000
Speaker 2: and they also manage and produce some man so I

1679
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:23,719
Speaker 2: like both sides of the coin. I like to produce

1680
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 2: for a while and then come in knock out some

1681
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:27,200
Speaker 2: mixes because it keeps the variety flowing.

1682
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: So is compensation stayed steady, going down or going up?

1683
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 2: The mixing compensation is pretty steady, pretty much steady. The

1684
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:42,840
Speaker 2: producing compensation it varies because a lot of times you're

1685
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 2: doing a lot of pro bono work. So look, you

1686
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 2: find a new artist, you're doing it all for free

1687
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 2: and hope you strike gold and hopefully you'll get him

1688
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 2: out of the road making some money, and or you'll

1689
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,679
Speaker 2: have a band where you're literally just take a piece

1690
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:56,920
Speaker 2: of the road. I mean, there is no money for

1691
01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:59,720
Speaker 2: records as far as I'm concerned, Like I would much

1692
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 2: prefer to just have a piece of the merch because

1693
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:03,559
Speaker 2: that's real money.

1694
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 3: That's that's going to happen.

1695
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 2: If the band plays one hundred shows a year and

1696
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:09,639
Speaker 2: they sell x amount of merch, it's a guarantee that

1697
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 2: your producer's fee is the merch. So selling records doesn't

1698
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 2: really make money. I mean it's just a piece of merch.

1699
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:25,720
Speaker 2: So you know, streaming doesn't make money. Songwriter royalties that

1700
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 2: makes money. I mean, it's it's improving, but it's a

1701
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:30,679
Speaker 2: whole different planet.

1702
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:36,479
Speaker 1: So over your career as a mixer, have you gotten

1703
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 1: royalty points, flat fees? What's the status in the past?

1704
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 2: And then today, at a certain point in my career,

1705
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 2: everyone start paying a point. So I earned the point

1706
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 2: on every mix, and while CDs were still selling twenty

1707
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 2: thirty million dollars, that's real money. Okay, those royalties added

1708
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 2: up because you're getting a royalty based on the sale

1709
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:05,240
Speaker 2: of a CD, a hard piece of record. Now they've

1710
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 2: actually because they're making a vinyl, you're getting a royalty

1711
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 2: on that. The royalty on sound exchange and streaming, well,

1712
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's not like it used to be.

1713
01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 2: So back in Atlantis Morris set when she had Jag

1714
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 2: a Little Pill, the CDs are selling thirty million, forty million,

1715
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:23,840
Speaker 2: twenty million.

1716
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 3: That's the heyday, right.

1717
01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 2: So if you had royalties back then and it stayed

1718
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,719
Speaker 2: at that and stayed and kept going at that rate,

1719
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 2: it would have been a whole different landscape financially. But

1720
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 2: once Napster came in and they were in denial about

1721
01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 2: you can copy CDs, it was over and then it

1722
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 2: all changed. So now it's like, Okay, a lot of

1723
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:52,600
Speaker 2: times it's better just do the buyout then get a percentage,

1724
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 2: but we basically get a percentage a point on everything.

1725
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: And how busy are you?

1726
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it's six seven days a week, as busy.

1727
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 2: It's as busy as I want to be. I'm as

1728
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 2: busy as I want to be. And I do enjoy.

1729
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm going between producing and mixing, so

1730
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 2: I like not just being the mix just pounding the

1731
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 2: mixes out. And the utmost work is very booming right

1732
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 2: now because maybe my approach.

1733
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:23,839
Speaker 1: How much outmost work? Are you doing.

1734
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:26,839
Speaker 3: A ton every record?

1735
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 2: And we're going back and right now I'm picking records

1736
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 2: I want to do that haven't been done yet, and

1737
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:40,559
Speaker 2: I'm preferring to go back to stuff seventies early eighties

1738
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 2: when it was two twenty four tracks or one to

1739
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:46,679
Speaker 2: twenty four track, you know, the first you know, first

1740
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:50,559
Speaker 2: albums by artists that those albums that may be artists okay,

1741
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 2: that are only twenty four track okay, And that's what

1742
01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 2: I want. I don't want to be untangling like mid

1743
01:29:56,880 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 2: tow you know, two thousand or the ninety nine two

1744
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 2: thousand where pro tools and sessions and figuring out where

1745
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:03,840
Speaker 2: the files. I don't want to go through that.

1746
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: Okay, we were talking that you believe the original engineer

1747
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:13,320
Speaker 1: should do the utmost mix.

1748
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 3: If possible, or be involved.

1749
01:30:17,479 --> 01:30:23,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I really believe that the only way to

1750
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:25,600
Speaker 2: save the past for the future, or to reconnect with

1751
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 2: it is to get the original people involved. To first

1752
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:33,919
Speaker 2: make sure that the assets of these earlier records are intact.

1753
01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 2: You have that to begin with, and if they could

1754
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 2: have some involvement and come in and shed some light on,

1755
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:41,559
Speaker 2: you know, their impressions of what you're doing.

1756
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 3: That to me, it's important. You know.

1757
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be just a money grab. Ooh I could

1758
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 2: get I could do all these outmost mixes and make money. No,

1759
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 2: that's not the concept here. Our job is to serve

1760
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 2: the artists and serve the music. If you do anything else,

1761
01:30:55,200 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 2: you're serving yourself and guys that are doing the money grab,

1762
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:01,000
Speaker 2: that's just serving your wallet. Do the right thing for

1763
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 2: these records. Come on, I don't care if it's more work,

1764
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:05,000
Speaker 2: Just do the right thing.

1765
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:07,879
Speaker 1: Okay. On a remix as opposed to a new record,

1766
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: is there enough money to do it your way.

1767
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:16,599
Speaker 2: Not really, We're trying to eke out a eke out

1768
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 2: a way where you know, because look, to make an

1769
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:22,680
Speaker 2: at most mix, you have to recreate the stereo mix first,

1770
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:27,599
Speaker 2: because the sonic palette has to be built in. Okay, yes,

1771
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 2: you can take an original recording, throw it in your

1772
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 2: at most computer, use your plugins, and go that way.

1773
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:38,320
Speaker 2: But my attitude is like, look, I want to remix

1774
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 2: it in stereo. Get all that magic that they had

1775
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 2: to create. Okay, match the stereo mix and then break

1776
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:48,800
Speaker 2: that out into the pieces you need for at moosts.

1777
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 2: This way, I know that when I just put output

1778
01:31:52,280 --> 01:31:54,920
Speaker 2: those things, it's going to be that record. Now, maybe

1779
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:55,439
Speaker 2: I'm wrong.

1780
01:31:56,000 --> 01:32:00,120
Speaker 1: Okay, you have the stereo mix now, needless to say

1781
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 1: that's the way it was originally mixed. Or two speakers.

1782
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: Stereo philosophies have changed. You know, used to be certain

1783
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,799
Speaker 1: things in different speakers. Now everything merge drums in both speakers,

1784
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 1: et cetera. You got a stereo mix, what do you

1785
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: do to create an app most mix?

1786
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 2: Well?

1787
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 3: Once, but I'm saying once you match.

1788
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:26,839
Speaker 2: Say let's let's, for example, take listen to the music

1789
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:28,840
Speaker 2: the first Doobie Brothers record.

1790
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 3: Okay, So the first thing I want to do is

1791
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 3: I want to match. I want to match the mix.

1792
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:37,639
Speaker 2: So I want to have their mix on one button

1793
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:40,639
Speaker 2: and then my console on another so I can compare. Okay,

1794
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:42,680
Speaker 2: what's making make it all? I want to make the

1795
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 2: picture match right as close as possible to what they did.

1796
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 3: Okay.

1797
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,719
Speaker 2: Once I have that all automated and perfect, I print that, okay,

1798
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 2: and then I can do a full capture of every

1799
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:56,840
Speaker 2: individual part and then put that in another computer and

1800
01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 2: all the sonic qualities and all the balances are intact.

1801
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 2: You got to match the stereo first. You can't do

1802
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 2: that on an atmost rig. You got to do it

1803
01:33:05,200 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 2: in stereo. So there's many ways. That's just the way

1804
01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:10,280
Speaker 2: I do it. I want to match the stereo first

1805
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 2: because I know once I match that, the autmost will match.

1806
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:17,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you say you match the stereo, and then you

1807
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:20,680
Speaker 1: go back to the multi track and then break it

1808
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: out because it's already EQ et cetera compressed the way

1809
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:24,760
Speaker 1: you like it.

1810
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:28,120
Speaker 2: Well, you're yeah, you're you're you're playing the multi track

1811
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 2: through your console and it's automated obviously, right, and you

1812
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:35,640
Speaker 2: can and once the mixes match then you're playing that

1813
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:39,360
Speaker 2: automation and then you're gonna you're gonna literally capture every fader,

1814
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,160
Speaker 2: all forty four faders and all the rever of it effects.

1815
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:44,879
Speaker 2: You're all gonna get captured to like sixty four tracks.

1816
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:48,000
Speaker 2: Then you're gonna take that new multi track, put it

1817
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 2: in atmost and literally if you just output it spatially,

1818
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:54,320
Speaker 2: that balance should be very close to the record.

1819
01:33:54,640 --> 01:33:55,599
Speaker 3: And then you go from there.

1820
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:58,519
Speaker 2: But you've you've an act taken the piece of art

1821
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 2: and putting all the colors in the right places, okay,

1822
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:04,080
Speaker 2: and then then you can go three dimensional with it.

1823
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:07,559
Speaker 1: Okay, So what's the philosophy on where to put what sounds?

1824
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 3: That's where it's the wild wild West for me.

1825
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:14,439
Speaker 2: I want you know, for me, we want to sit

1826
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 2: in the in the sound field and just move things

1827
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:21,560
Speaker 2: around so it stays cohesive, but you you're able to

1828
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 2: get some more definition and give give parts some more placement.

1829
01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:28,519
Speaker 2: I mean, it's great with a live thing because you

1830
01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:31,280
Speaker 2: can make it sound like you're sitting in the room, okay,

1831
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 2: and you can move things around, so it just gives

1832
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:36,439
Speaker 2: it a more three dimensionality. And that's really the concept

1833
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,160
Speaker 2: is like you want to have a new experience with

1834
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 2: an old friend. I think atmos is literally a new

1835
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:45,679
Speaker 2: experience with an old friend that you know very well,

1836
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:49,840
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden things about your old friend. Wow,

1837
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 2: I didn't know that about you. I did not know

1838
01:34:53,400 --> 01:34:55,760
Speaker 2: that you did that. You know, I did not know

1839
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:58,360
Speaker 2: that you come from the moon. And but you hear

1840
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 2: you hear th in the song that that you didn't

1841
01:35:02,040 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 2: hear before, or you hear clarity and like, wow, I

1842
01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 2: didn't know those backgrounds did that. That's cool? Or I

1843
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 2: didn't know that guitar did that. It was like all

1844
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:13,040
Speaker 2: met you know, it was all speared together. So it

1845
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:17,200
Speaker 2: gives you a different experience, and you can just surround

1846
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:20,400
Speaker 2: yourself with the song in like a sphere, like a

1847
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:22,960
Speaker 2: you know, like a sphere, a round sphere, rather than

1848
01:35:23,080 --> 01:35:26,360
Speaker 2: just have these two points of light. And don't get

1849
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:29,600
Speaker 2: me wrong, almost can be really distracting if if you

1850
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 2: do it, and if you do certain things, but you're

1851
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,160
Speaker 2: trying to make it where you're not like like swinging

1852
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:36,040
Speaker 2: your head goes, oh what's that? Where'd that go? What's

1853
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:37,920
Speaker 2: that about? No, you want to just make it like

1854
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:41,760
Speaker 2: your experiences. Wow, this is the greatest stereo ever and

1855
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 2: I think that should be what it is.

1856
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 1: Okay, what's a reference track you use that you did

1857
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,680
Speaker 1: mix and one that you did mix that people can

1858
01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: check out at most?

1859
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 3: Uh?

1860
01:35:54,800 --> 01:36:02,600
Speaker 2: Well, I obviously the the El John's Soon. Uh Rocketman

1861
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:07,599
Speaker 2: is a great atmospherex because look rocket Man, even the title,

1862
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:10,599
Speaker 2: even the lyric, the landscape alone makes you feel about it.

1863
01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 3: Look as far as mine. Just look at.

1864
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 2: Current Green Day or Nimrod or or My Jovi or

1865
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:21,240
Speaker 2: any of the any of the ones that we've put

1866
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:21,760
Speaker 2: up there.

1867
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 3: Uh.

1868
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 2: And these current artists will show you what I've been doing, okay,

1869
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:28,920
Speaker 2: and the excitement we've done. I mean, I have a

1870
01:36:28,960 --> 01:36:31,040
Speaker 2: really cool Steve Hackett when it's not up there yet.

1871
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:33,240
Speaker 2: But the law of a live show I kind of

1872
01:36:33,320 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 2: like the live version of aut most stuff because you

1873
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 2: can really feel like you're sitting in a venue.

1874
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:41,080
Speaker 1: So why did you move to California?

1875
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:46,240
Speaker 2: Uh? You know this this guy, Tommy Mattola, he lives

1876
01:36:46,280 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 2: on the road, and uh, I was working for him.

1877
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 2: He said, I got this girl, I got this artist

1878
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:53,680
Speaker 2: I'd like you to work with.

1879
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:56,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, because.

1880
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:57,560
Speaker 2: I was doing a couple of things for Carle and

1881
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 2: Hall of Oates and Holly Knight, and she had a

1882
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:05,799
Speaker 2: band called Device, but this is now her first solo

1883
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 2: album and she had some success.

1884
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:08,120
Speaker 3: You know.

1885
01:37:08,280 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 2: The Best was a big single for her, and I did.

1886
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,920
Speaker 2: I did that record as a mixer an engineer with

1887
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 2: Dan and said, you'll be good for it.

1888
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:19,360
Speaker 3: She needs someone like you to help her make this record.

1889
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay.

1890
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:23,840
Speaker 2: So we're working at the Hit Factory and she wanted

1891
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:25,759
Speaker 2: to finish the record, do all the vocals and final

1892
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 2: overdubs because it was cheaper, and she had a little

1893
01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:30,720
Speaker 2: studio in her house. So I said, chure, I'll come

1894
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:32,120
Speaker 2: out there and we'll work on at your house. And

1895
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 2: I worked on it there with her. We became very

1896
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 2: close friends and finished the record and I just stayed.

1897
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 2: What's not to like. I'm a rag talk man. I

1898
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 2: can out a convertible and have good weather. And I

1899
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:48,559
Speaker 2: just never went I you know, I didn't go back.

1900
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I go back and visit Mom and my family,

1901
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:54,639
Speaker 2: but once I was there, I just stayed at eighty eight.

1902
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:57,760
Speaker 1: And what's the difference between the East Coast and the

1903
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:00,000
Speaker 1: West Coast for you?

1904
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 2: The pizza, the bangels to hot dogs, I hear you, right,

1905
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 2: the attitude it's you know, hey, you know what out here?

1906
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:14,640
Speaker 2: Well it our weather has been kind of it's a

1907
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,760
Speaker 2: different year now, But it used to be in New

1908
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 2: York every weekend from like April to September would rain

1909
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:23,679
Speaker 2: every weekend.

1910
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 3: Was ship here.

1911
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:28,160
Speaker 2: Every day is perfect, so I could have the top

1912
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 2: down like the whole year and if it rained, it

1913
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 2: was a novelty. This year opposite, but uh no, just

1914
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:36,080
Speaker 2: different lifestyle. Plus it was booming out here. It was

1915
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:39,040
Speaker 2: it was more suburbia. It wasn't the city. It wasn't

1916
01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 2: driving trying to park in Manhattan and you know, and

1917
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 2: helping around the city. It was like everything's residential, spread out.

1918
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,720
Speaker 2: Everyone's got a car. You know, there's a lot of

1919
01:38:47,720 --> 01:38:49,640
Speaker 2: studios at a lot of different clients, a lot of

1920
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 2: different action. It was just different fun.

1921
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:54,519
Speaker 1: And what's the difference in the people.

1922
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:01,360
Speaker 2: I mean the East Coast and the orcer. You know,

1923
01:39:01,560 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 2: it's like a jerky boy. Everyone's got a you know comment.

1924
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 2: You know, everybody's you know, they got an apigion. You know,

1925
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:09,880
Speaker 2: you come here, it's a little bit more easy going,

1926
01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,920
Speaker 2: a little more easy going, and uh back in New York,

1927
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:15,759
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, everyone's Brett Weir or Frank Rizzo.

1928
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 3: You know this accent, there's an attitude, there's an edge.

1929
01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 3: You know. I love it, like Troy Germano my good buddy.

1930
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 2: So I love going back there and refreshing my my, my, my,

1931
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:31,440
Speaker 2: this my vibe or my accent, so it doesn't vanish.

1932
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,639
Speaker 1: So you know, this is a business with a lot

1933
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:37,880
Speaker 1: of hours. Has your personal life suffered.

1934
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:41,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, my whole career, it has totally.

1935
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 2: To this day, it suffers because I don't know, I

1936
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:49,240
Speaker 2: have a hunger for this stuff really hard.

1937
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:51,920
Speaker 3: I lust after it.

1938
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:53,719
Speaker 2: I mean I wake up sometimes six in the morning

1939
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:57,160
Speaker 2: I'm editing songs, so I can never seems like I

1940
01:39:57,160 --> 01:40:00,760
Speaker 2: can never get enough of the music. And I really

1941
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:03,360
Speaker 2: have to force myself to, like, Okay, go working in

1942
01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:06,920
Speaker 2: the backyard, go work on the property, Okay, put all

1943
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 2: that effort into the into stuff other things. So my

1944
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,160
Speaker 2: favorite sport is bike riding with the e bike and

1945
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 2: the mounts of Switzerland. I mean that's all I like

1946
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 2: to do. So I try to have a social life,

1947
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's if you're hanging out with me, you

1948
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:22,920
Speaker 2: better be into music because that's going to be first

1949
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 2: and foremost most of the time. But uh, yeah, it

1950
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 2: is it is in eat your life. And I think

1951
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 2: the only way to be successful is to have that lust,

1952
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 2: that that lust for it and uh it's new every

1953
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 2: day and have that energy. A lot of people that

1954
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:43,360
Speaker 2: work in the music business they seem retired from it emotionally,

1955
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:46,559
Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, you're not excited about this anymore,

1956
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:49,360
Speaker 2: or I am like it's like, you know, like a

1957
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 2: brand new toy. So I still enjoy it. So it's

1958
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:56,320
Speaker 2: not it's I'd never take it for granted, not one

1959
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 2: single minute.

1960
01:40:57,560 --> 01:41:03,040
Speaker 1: And to what degree is this life affected your love relationships? Uh?

1961
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:07,000
Speaker 2: Usual eurek'savocate on just about every single one of them.

1962
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:10,679
Speaker 2: But like with anything, you you you put the same

1963
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:13,000
Speaker 2: energy you put into music into your love life or

1964
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:16,599
Speaker 2: to your life whatever, and then eventually you'll take that

1965
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,040
Speaker 2: for granted and the music will take over again. And

1966
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's it's it's hard. I mean, look,

1967
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,960
Speaker 2: you know where your priorities are and you'll put them there. So, uh,

1968
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:28,800
Speaker 2: I have a great situation and I'm happy, you know,

1969
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:32,120
Speaker 2: I'm happy with that. So I like to keep my

1970
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:35,479
Speaker 2: my personal life private and my family private. But uh,

1971
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:39,880
Speaker 2: my music, you know, is is that disease I've caught

1972
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:40,599
Speaker 2: from my mother.

1973
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:45,400
Speaker 1: Okay, producers, what's a good producer? I mean, you're mixing

1974
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:48,919
Speaker 1: and they're coming in before. What makes a good producer

1975
01:41:48,960 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 1: on the outside? Who are a couple of ones you

1976
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:51,479
Speaker 1: like to work with?

1977
01:41:53,840 --> 01:41:56,639
Speaker 2: I mean, let's go back to at the beginning, uh,

1978
01:41:56,840 --> 01:41:58,519
Speaker 2: back to you know. The one that I thought was

1979
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:01,680
Speaker 2: probably the best I worked with was Dan Hartman. It

1980
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 2: was amazing what I learned from him and how he

1981
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,200
Speaker 2: would just do all the things I said about taking

1982
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:12,040
Speaker 2: control of a situation. And I think a great producer

1983
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:14,960
Speaker 2: is one that also can play. I mean someone like

1984
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:17,920
Speaker 2: Rob Cavallo who he knows how to he knows how

1985
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:21,439
Speaker 2: to play. That helps him navigate the band and that's

1986
01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:23,880
Speaker 2: a lot of it. And John Shanks the same way.

1987
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:27,120
Speaker 2: He's a great player, so he gets respect from the

1988
01:42:27,240 --> 01:42:30,719
Speaker 2: artist because he really loves working on the record.

1989
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:31,920
Speaker 3: He loves the music.

1990
01:42:32,400 --> 01:42:34,400
Speaker 2: And then there's a friend of mine I've been mixing

1991
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:36,800
Speaker 2: for hundreds and hundreds of years, Julian Raymond, who works

1992
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:40,519
Speaker 2: with Scott Borchetta. A great producer. He knows exactly what

1993
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:43,759
Speaker 2: to do, and he's loyal. He knows that he literally

1994
01:42:43,760 --> 01:42:46,320
Speaker 2: makes records that are made for me to mix because

1995
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 2: he knows that that team effort really works well. And

1996
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:53,080
Speaker 2: I've seen I've seen many of the new I mean,

1997
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:56,720
Speaker 2: Max Martin is an amazing producer because all he cares

1998
01:42:56,720 --> 01:43:01,200
Speaker 2: about is a song and then he crafts the sonics

1999
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:04,840
Speaker 2: to match what's in his head. And but Lang the

2000
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 2: same way. It's like he hears the final record done

2001
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 2: in his head and the struggle is getting it there.

2002
01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:14,439
Speaker 2: And that's Mut's thing. He already hears it done and

2003
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:17,519
Speaker 2: he puts the song together before Like I mean, you

2004
01:43:17,560 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 2: compare Back in Black. It's not even that complicated, but

2005
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 2: the build is right, you know. Hysteria is where he

2006
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:28,000
Speaker 2: took it as far as it could go for that era.

2007
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:31,000
Speaker 3: It made something. It still sounds better than most records

2008
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:33,559
Speaker 3: today sonically.

2009
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:36,400
Speaker 1: Okay, But Mutt, I'm with you there, Mutt really doesn't

2010
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:39,640
Speaker 1: work anymore so in your particular case, where you've been

2011
01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:43,599
Speaker 1: doing it for forty years, closer to fifty years, you

2012
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,880
Speaker 1: say you're still hungry. You must have had moments where

2013
01:43:46,920 --> 01:43:49,800
Speaker 1: you said, man, I'm burned out or it doesn't mean

2014
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 1: as much to me, or something like that.

2015
01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 2: Uh, I do, And that's where I'm selective about what

2016
01:43:56,560 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 2: I work on. If I see if I see one

2017
01:44:00,400 --> 01:44:02,599
Speaker 2: of those one of those gigs, I know is not

2018
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:04,719
Speaker 2: going to interest me. If it's not gonna light my fire,

2019
01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 2: I'm out of here, you know. So if if it's

2020
01:44:08,560 --> 01:44:11,439
Speaker 2: something that I feel is going to be work and

2021
01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 2: not fun, I don't do it. I don't care who

2022
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:17,519
Speaker 2: it is. Uh So I'll turn away. And I like

2023
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:19,720
Speaker 2: to take taking on the bigger challenges. I like to

2024
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,280
Speaker 2: do the live broadcast too, because that's what I call

2025
01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 2: a real ball wiggler. That means that separates the men

2026
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:27,680
Speaker 2: from the boys. When you're doing an artist at Coachella

2027
01:44:27,880 --> 01:44:32,240
Speaker 2: or at an award show or Grammys or whatever you know,

2028
01:44:32,320 --> 01:44:34,879
Speaker 2: CMA's or something where it's a lot of stress, that's

2029
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 2: separates the men from the boys. Eric Shilling, that guy

2030
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 2: is like the iceman. He is cool as a cucumber,

2031
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:46,280
Speaker 2: never even raises his voice. Me. I'm a freaking big mouth,

2032
01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 2: so I'm always yelling. But that guy doesn't get rattled.

2033
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:54,120
Speaker 2: And that that's a serious pro doing all those broadcasts.

2034
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:56,760
Speaker 3: But you know, I want to get burned.

2035
01:44:56,800 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 2: I gonna Switzerland for a month and ride a bikes

2036
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:01,479
Speaker 2: in the mountains, and I don't listen to music. I

2037
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 2: hear cows, and I hear yoldling and alpine horns, and

2038
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:06,360
Speaker 2: that makes me happy.

2039
01:45:06,520 --> 01:45:08,599
Speaker 1: Well, will you go alone or with your wife?

2040
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 2: Or h I start alone? I liked, I need, I

2041
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:15,280
Speaker 2: need a week, or I just get up every morning.

2042
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:17,640
Speaker 2: I could take my bike going to train, go on

2043
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:19,599
Speaker 2: the trail, get out there by myself.

2044
01:45:19,800 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 1: Where is this in Switzerland?

2045
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:25,639
Speaker 3: Uh, Lucern or Interlockin? You know, I have a lot

2046
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:26,280
Speaker 3: of friends there.

2047
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:30,080
Speaker 2: And just to rejuvenate, you know, I think you got

2048
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:32,960
Speaker 2: to get out in nature and just be alone and

2049
01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:35,680
Speaker 2: uh just you know, be alone with your thoughts and

2050
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 2: be alowd nature. Just take all that white noise. We're

2051
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:42,320
Speaker 2: so surrounded with white noise from the phones. Well you

2052
01:45:42,400 --> 01:45:44,720
Speaker 2: have none of that. It's great. The only thing on

2053
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:47,920
Speaker 2: the phone is the Strava that tells you where you

2054
01:45:47,960 --> 01:45:49,120
Speaker 2: know that or a map.

2055
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:49,920
Speaker 3: I just use it for that.

2056
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 2: But now it's a nice break from it all, and

2057
01:45:53,040 --> 01:45:54,680
Speaker 2: then it's all new again when you start back up.

2058
01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:58,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned earlier. Listen to the music, the first

2059
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:02,919
Speaker 1: Doobie Brothers hit. You mentioned Jagged Little Pill, you mentioned

2060
01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 1: led Zeppelin, the cassette and uh back in Black. These

2061
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:13,679
Speaker 1: are all iconic records, not only the iconic, they're great records.

2062
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 1: What do you think about the music today compared to

2063
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:20,559
Speaker 1: those eras well?

2064
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:23,479
Speaker 2: I think right now what's being made? I mean my

2065
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:27,360
Speaker 2: concern now is is it going to stand a test

2066
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,759
Speaker 2: of time? Is in twenty years a new record gonna

2067
01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:34,479
Speaker 2: you know, still feels like something you're gonna want to hear.

2068
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:38,960
Speaker 2: Is it gonna pass through the generations? One of my concerns,

2069
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:40,960
Speaker 2: and I think one of the concerns I have with

2070
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:44,599
Speaker 2: new music versus old is something that I feel that

2071
01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:48,200
Speaker 2: I'm partially responsible for is compression. Like some of these

2072
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:52,799
Speaker 2: pop records are this disposable music is so compressed, so limited,

2073
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 2: it's it's unlistenable in a in a you know, in

2074
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:00,439
Speaker 2: a teenage way. You know, it's unlistenable on standard listening,

2075
01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:02,880
Speaker 2: like on a high thigh on a stereo, to sit

2076
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:05,360
Speaker 2: back with a with a glass of wine and listen

2077
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 2: to a record.

2078
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:08,840
Speaker 3: It's all made for disposable.

2079
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:14,639
Speaker 2: So I think some of these creations are overly spanked,

2080
01:47:14,680 --> 01:47:18,800
Speaker 2: overly compressed, and uh, only made to last this very

2081
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 2: short journey. We're not seeing these you know, Rolling Stones

2082
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 2: albums or these great records. Maybe they'll come back, maybe

2083
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:27,439
Speaker 2: they'll be a little bit more open as I'm hoping.

2084
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:30,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I know we've you know, we've created a

2085
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 2: different sound, a more forward, more upfront, less dynamic sound

2086
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:39,519
Speaker 2: in songs, which is fine, but uh, I really think

2087
01:47:39,640 --> 01:47:43,360
Speaker 2: it's about the songs and it's about the artist, and

2088
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:47,360
Speaker 2: I think what happened in the past is the limitations

2089
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 2: of technology created music that stands at test of time,

2090
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:56,800
Speaker 2: where all the having all the tools creates a laziness

2091
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:00,360
Speaker 2: that makes more disposable music.

2092
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:05,120
Speaker 1: Do you affect your sound to be current with what's happening?

2093
01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:08,040
Speaker 3: You know?

2094
01:48:08,680 --> 01:48:11,320
Speaker 2: The funny thing is that I always hear things the

2095
01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:13,400
Speaker 2: same way since I started. I always hear it the

2096
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:15,479
Speaker 2: same way in my head, and as it a ranger

2097
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:17,599
Speaker 2: or a player, I hear certain things in my head.

2098
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:19,960
Speaker 2: I never think about, well, let's put this on this

2099
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,840
Speaker 2: because current. I never think about it that way. I

2100
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:25,880
Speaker 2: never think about, let me listen to some sounds for

2101
01:48:26,000 --> 01:48:28,760
Speaker 2: current record and use those sounds. I'm like, I never

2102
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:30,559
Speaker 2: think of it that way. I don't know, I don't

2103
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 2: I'm not influenced by that. I listened to like the

2104
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:35,960
Speaker 2: Lamb or Steve Steve Hackett or I've listened it to

2105
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:39,720
Speaker 2: Steven Wilson on my spare time or news radio. I'm

2106
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:42,320
Speaker 2: not listening to the ringio going oh, yeah, that that's

2107
01:48:42,320 --> 01:48:45,120
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Maybe I should do that. Never, I just

2108
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:46,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just do what I think and

2109
01:48:46,439 --> 01:48:46,800
Speaker 2: that's it.

2110
01:48:47,200 --> 01:48:49,000
Speaker 1: How much do you keep up on new music?

2111
01:48:50,240 --> 01:48:54,720
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, yeah, I mean I will keep up.

2112
01:48:55,240 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 2: I'll look at I'll look and check out some new

2113
01:48:57,280 --> 01:49:00,439
Speaker 2: artists and people I like and see what they done.

2114
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:02,680
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'll do the.

2115
01:49:02,680 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 2: Radio scrolling, you know, my truck and I'll just be

2116
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:07,479
Speaker 2: scrolling through all those channels, like, okay, so here's the

2117
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 2: country station, here's the rot Oh there's that. Oh that's cool.

2118
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:12,799
Speaker 2: Who's that? Oh that's not bad? What's that lyric? Okay, good,

2119
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:16,040
Speaker 2: I'll listen to it. But yeah, I just stay current

2120
01:49:16,520 --> 01:49:20,320
Speaker 2: as far as hearing new things, but as far as

2121
01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 2: what I'm going to listen to. Whatever, relaxing I'll put

2122
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:28,200
Speaker 2: in the Lamb two albums or Quadraphedia. I mean, Quadraphedia

2123
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:29,439
Speaker 2: is a win every time.

2124
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:34,360
Speaker 1: Quadraphenie the original album with a great cover with Vinyl.

2125
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:38,920
Speaker 1: It was remixed. John Eden Twistle was involved for the

2126
01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:43,479
Speaker 1: movie and The mix is better, I feel than the original. Listen.

2127
01:49:43,479 --> 01:49:48,000
Speaker 1: There's so many versions since then, but I remember buying it.

2128
01:49:48,040 --> 01:49:51,440
Speaker 1: The lyrics it was less cloudy, it was more defined.

2129
01:49:52,439 --> 01:49:54,960
Speaker 1: But anybody you haven't worked with you want to work with.

2130
01:49:58,120 --> 01:49:58,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted it.

2131
01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:01,400
Speaker 2: Borkwori McCartney ever got to do that. I wanted to

2132
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:03,320
Speaker 2: mix a Stones record. I mean, I've worked with Mick,

2133
01:50:03,360 --> 01:50:05,519
Speaker 2: but like this deal with that Andrew Watson. I just

2134
01:50:05,600 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 2: wanted to mix a Stones record. I just wanted to

2135
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:09,479
Speaker 2: have that. You know, I wanted to mix a real

2136
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 2: Who record, but I think that ship is sailed right

2137
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:13,000
Speaker 2: my heroes.

2138
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:14,679
Speaker 3: I just wanted to work with some of my heros.

2139
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:17,280
Speaker 2: Of course, I wanted to work on some Zeppelin' ac DC,

2140
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 2: you know, all those Titans. I wanted to have at

2141
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:23,479
Speaker 2: least a chip in that game. And I mean I

2142
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 2: got to work with the Elton I did the Dodger

2143
01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:26,920
Speaker 2: Sati of Live thing, which is great because my friend's

2144
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,200
Speaker 2: in the band. So I got to work with, you know,

2145
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:34,280
Speaker 2: artists I seriously respect, and there's more to come, like Peter.

2146
01:50:34,560 --> 01:50:37,200
Speaker 2: I loved working with Peter and Dwight. I mean that

2147
01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 2: guy's not easy. But you know, if you can make

2148
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:46,040
Speaker 2: him happy. It's important. He's an amazing musician, an amazing player,

2149
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:49,400
Speaker 2: and he's I've learned a lot.

2150
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:50,519
Speaker 3: About music from him.

2151
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:55,000
Speaker 2: He's a very smart guy and very passionate about his

2152
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:57,080
Speaker 2: music and how it sounds. And I've been in charge

2153
01:50:57,120 --> 01:51:00,599
Speaker 2: of that for a while now. And I would hate

2154
01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:03,880
Speaker 2: to be his guitar rodeo on stage because he is particular.

2155
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:05,599
Speaker 3: But he's right.

2156
01:51:05,760 --> 01:51:07,880
Speaker 1: You know, how'd you get the gig with Elton?

2157
01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:12,680
Speaker 2: Kim Bullard's keyboard player, A close friend of mine lives

2158
01:51:12,720 --> 01:51:14,680
Speaker 2: up the street. We've been friends for thirty years and

2159
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:16,759
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to work on some outh stuff.

2160
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:17,759
Speaker 3: He goes, well, here's your chance.

2161
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:21,880
Speaker 2: So so you know, the offer came in and it's like,

2162
01:51:22,360 --> 01:51:23,960
Speaker 2: just match the fee they wanted to pay, Bob, and

2163
01:51:23,960 --> 01:51:28,400
Speaker 2: you're in, okay, and do it the short amount of time. Fine.

2164
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:30,800
Speaker 2: And when they all went to Emmy and you don't, well,

2165
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 2: just suck it up. So maybe I'll get to Emmy,

2166
01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:35,400
Speaker 2: maybe I won't.

2167
01:51:35,439 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 3: Who knows? Did mix it?

2168
01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:40,920
Speaker 1: Okay? And you have these classes? What's the story with that?

2169
01:51:42,160 --> 01:51:43,120
Speaker 3: I like giving back?

2170
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:47,519
Speaker 2: So Mix with the Masters is a platform that we

2171
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:50,880
Speaker 2: teach kids about mixing, about producing you can do it

2172
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:52,320
Speaker 2: over a course of a week. We could do it

2173
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:56,320
Speaker 2: with online videos. You can do it at four day.

2174
01:51:56,520 --> 01:51:59,160
Speaker 2: I'm literally leaving tomorrow to do a master class that's

2175
01:51:59,160 --> 01:52:02,439
Speaker 2: Sweetwater for two days to teach. You know, kids that

2176
01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:05,519
Speaker 2: are hungry about learning. What would Chris do? It's really

2177
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:08,840
Speaker 2: what how does Chris do this? So I show them

2178
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:11,519
Speaker 2: exactly what I do? Am I worried about? Well, if

2179
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:13,920
Speaker 2: I show everyone what I do, then no one's gonna

2180
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:16,400
Speaker 2: want me. Well, no one's going to get my head

2181
01:52:17,120 --> 01:52:21,280
Speaker 2: and copy that. So I like sharing and showing kids,

2182
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:25,120
Speaker 2: look kids, showing anybody who wants to do this, Well,

2183
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:28,640
Speaker 2: here's here's my experience, and here's what I've done, and

2184
01:52:28,680 --> 01:52:31,360
Speaker 2: here's what might help you. And a lot of it's

2185
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,840
Speaker 2: just how you run your business and and how you

2186
01:52:33,880 --> 01:52:36,760
Speaker 2: work with audio and how you deal with it. Just

2187
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:39,760
Speaker 2: try to help them in a career that doesn't make money.

2188
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 3: It's all. It's all about time.

2189
01:52:41,120 --> 01:52:44,880
Speaker 2: So if you can, if you can, you know, if

2190
01:52:44,920 --> 01:52:46,800
Speaker 2: you can be good at what you do and do

2191
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:51,040
Speaker 2: it efficiently, you can enjoy it, you know, so I

2192
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:51,799
Speaker 2: enjoyed the teacher.

2193
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:57,800
Speaker 1: Give me two things that you would immediately tell your students.

2194
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:01,519
Speaker 2: Is to take it seriously or get another job that

2195
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,160
Speaker 2: look at it as a career and a life time thing,

2196
01:53:04,560 --> 01:53:05,439
Speaker 2: not as a hobby.

2197
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:08,080
Speaker 3: Okay, that's the first thing. Okay.

2198
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:12,840
Speaker 2: The second thing is take control of it, Okay, and

2199
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:15,120
Speaker 2: then you'll have it. You'll have a chance. And it's

2200
01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:17,400
Speaker 2: not a guarantee that what you hear they're gonna like,

2201
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:21,639
Speaker 2: but give it a shot, because that's the whole thing

2202
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:23,880
Speaker 2: with anything in the music, Like what you hear in

2203
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:26,360
Speaker 2: your head maybe way wrong, and no matter what you do,

2204
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:27,720
Speaker 2: they're not gonna like it. So you may end up

2205
01:53:27,720 --> 01:53:29,840
Speaker 2: being just an engineer for hire to record stuff. But

2206
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:34,200
Speaker 2: your opinion is really the lucky thing that people if

2207
01:53:34,200 --> 01:53:36,880
Speaker 2: you have the right ears to hear it a certain

2208
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:39,760
Speaker 2: way that you think that they'll like, and they like it.

2209
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:40,360
Speaker 3: That's the win.

2210
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:43,080
Speaker 2: It's not about eke here, it's not about compression they're

2211
01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:44,759
Speaker 2: about It's nothing to do with the tools.

2212
01:53:45,080 --> 01:53:46,760
Speaker 3: Nope, it's a state of mind. That's the win.

2213
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:50,320
Speaker 1: Well, this has been a win, Chris. I want to

2214
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:53,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking the time with my audience.

2215
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:57,639
Speaker 1: You're a fountain of information. There are many other layers.

2216
01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:00,599
Speaker 1: I know you're busy, so thanks a lot for doing this.

2217
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 3: You are quite welcome, Bob.

2218
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 2: I love to see you at the next amazing event

2219
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 2: there because you're a music lover and you're seem to

2220
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:11,000
Speaker 2: be at all the right ones.

2221
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:13,920
Speaker 1: That's where I run into you at the Greek Theater

2222
01:54:14,040 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 1: and elsewhere. In any event, this has been Bob Left

2223
01:54:16,920 --> 01:54:19,599
Speaker 1: sets with Chris Lord Algae. I just want to take

2224
01:54:19,640 --> 01:54:22,960
Speaker 1: a moment to give credit to Margaret Middleman, who for

2225
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:26,400
Speaker 1: the last couple of years has been the coordinator on

2226
01:54:26,520 --> 01:54:29,600
Speaker 1: this show, the grease who makes this work. She is

2227
01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:34,040
Speaker 1: moving on, so kudos to Margaret. In any event, Chris,

2228
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:37,280
Speaker 1: thanks so much. Till next time. This is Bob Left

2229
01:54:37,320 --> 01:54:37,680
Speaker 1: stets