Speaker 1: Yeah, my name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the bear Grease podcast called the bear Grease Render
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made, purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore. Guys,
Speaker 1: We've got an exclusive bear Grease discount code for f
Speaker 1: h F Gear that's fish Hunt Fight Gear. I've been
Speaker 1: using their products for the last year and I love
Speaker 1: carrying my gear in a chest rig or my binos
Speaker 1: and their bino harness. It's easier and more accessible than
Speaker 1: a backpack and it doesn't get in the way when
Speaker 1: I'm riding my mule. For a limited time, you can
Speaker 1: head over to f h F gear dot com forward
Speaker 1: slash bear Grease and listeners to this yere podcast get
Speaker 1: a discount on purchases for your f h F Gear
Speaker 1: system and you can see how I build my gear system.
Speaker 1: So go to f h F gear dot com forward
Speaker 1: slash bear Grease for a special code. If you're buying
Speaker 1: stuff from f h F Gear, check it out fish
Speaker 1: Hunt Fight f h F Gear just for the record,
Speaker 1: now that we're not producing a show for Mark Kenyon,
Speaker 1: I would like to just establish with a group that
Speaker 1: now Clays in charge, Clays the producer. Okay, so no
Speaker 1: longer there's no need to look back to Andreas anymore.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness, you few. This is this is really an experiment,
Speaker 1: and I don't really want to put like a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure on you guys, but you know, there was
Speaker 1: there are groups of people over time that have done
Speaker 1: things that were monumental, and when you're swinging for the fence,
Speaker 1: like you're either gonna strike out or you might hit
Speaker 1: it over the fence. And so this is this is
Speaker 1: the first time in the Bear Grease Surrender history that
Speaker 1: we have had an entirely new crew of bear Grease guests. Essentially,
Speaker 1: you guys are like the astronauts that went to the
Speaker 1: moon first, and people are like, man, I don't know
Speaker 1: if they ever come back or not. This is wild.
Speaker 1: So congratulations won't air. Okay, If this goes really bad,
Speaker 1: I'll just call in the regulars, you know, for a
Speaker 1: quick bear grea surrender. No, welcome to the Bear Grease Surrender. Welcome. No,
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled, apps solutely thrilled to have a new cast
Speaker 1: of characters which I which I will introduce. So we
Speaker 1: make a big deal out of out of introductions on
Speaker 1: the burgers frender. Okay, we are we're in the field,
Speaker 1: so we're not in the typical burgery studio at my office.
Speaker 1: We are in the field. Loose definition of in the field,
Speaker 1: let's say in the field, meaning we're not where we
Speaker 1: usually are. But I have many many guests with me today,
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon of Wired to Hunt. Yeah, Mark, Mark and
Speaker 1: I have been hunting together this week. With Mark is
Speaker 1: his crew, of his production crew. So I'm gonna start
Speaker 1: to my right and we have Matt gang Yon. How
Speaker 1: close was that matter? You know what? That's a perfect
Speaker 1: mix of the both of the correct So we say
Speaker 1: Gagnon or it could be it could be Gagon if
Speaker 1: you're from the old country Gang, but we'll go with Gagnon.
Speaker 1: That's like the Okay, so tell me what you do
Speaker 1: for meat. Either I am officially an associate producer and
Speaker 1: in the field, I am the go get me this guy,
Speaker 1: the glue guy. Yeah. Did you guys know that the
Speaker 1: first video that Matt ever produced for me, he was
Speaker 1: the were you the director? On that there was multi officially, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was a team effort. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: put in a lot of the first time I worked
Speaker 1: with Matt with the media, we did this bare pistol
Speaker 1: defense video and it has two point seven million views
Speaker 1: on YouTube right now, smashing success by Matt. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I set the bar high initially. So I feel like
Speaker 1: I I peaked in my first effort. To your right, Andreas,
Speaker 1: good job did your persian now? Yeah, so Andrea said,
Speaker 1: tell us what you do for me here? I produced
Speaker 1: for me either. So you're a producer producer? What does
Speaker 1: that mean? I didn't. I wouldn't have known what that
Speaker 1: meant before. So my wife likes to think that it's
Speaker 1: like wedding planning, Okay, for a TV show. You get
Speaker 1: all the pieces to the puzzle together and you have
Speaker 1: an event. Okay, I'm happy. It's a good way to
Speaker 1: put it. Shout out to Jane. Yeah, she must, she
Speaker 1: must be an angel. I think she's she's the real
Speaker 1: trooper of the crew completely. So you've been on the
Speaker 1: shoot with us this week, and we'll talk about our
Speaker 1: hunting what we did. You've you've done this kind of
Speaker 1: stuff and other for other companies though other capacities. Yes,
Speaker 1: this is my first event with or gig with docuseries
Speaker 1: of this sort. Docuseries is that what we're calling these?
Speaker 1: I imagine it is. It's a it's a series of documenting.
Speaker 1: Mark Kennyan slaying it to your right, Tyler, Emmett Tyler,
Speaker 1: welcome man, Hello, thanks for having me. Where are you from?
Speaker 1: Originally from Carpenteria, California, but I live in Bend, Oregon. Now, oh,
Speaker 1: that reminds me. Andrea's is from l AT, I'm from
Speaker 1: I'm from We'll come back to you, Tyler. We're gonna
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time with you. Um. I would
Speaker 1: like to point out that Andreas is from l A.
Speaker 1: People might have already insinuated that just by hearing him,
Speaker 1: though they might have already caught on. Did y'all notice
Speaker 1: that James Lawrence gave him some grief from being from
Speaker 1: CALIFORNI I loved it this so quickly he was able
Speaker 1: to already he picked up the andres is and should
Speaker 1: be the target of jebs. I feel like I'm James Lorton.
Speaker 1: It's his favorite. Now. He gave me a big old hug.
Speaker 1: He didn't hug you, Clay, not the way he hugged me. Jealous.
Speaker 1: I've known this man for a week. You've known this
Speaker 1: man your entire life, and he gave me a better
Speaker 1: hug than he gave you. Child. You have a very
Speaker 1: very good skill at connecting with people quickly. I will
Speaker 1: say that you and Juju were like this, like quickly,
Speaker 1: James Lawrence, I like to know everyone, man. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: something about guys from California. Tyler Okay, back to Tyler, Man.
Speaker 1: You do a lot of work for so you're a
Speaker 1: videographer and do a lot of work for Meat Eater
Speaker 1: and all a bunch of different capacities. Love kind of
Speaker 1: all the shows across the gamut from cal in the
Speaker 1: field to meet your hunts to now this first time
Speaker 1: with Mark and sometimes on the main show with Steve
Speaker 1: and I don't know, they just wherever they tell me
Speaker 1: to go, I go. What Meat Eater shows have you
Speaker 1: on with Steve Well? I first worked on Stars in
Speaker 1: the Sky, which was not the show, but that was
Speaker 1: back in I don't know when we filmed that, went
Speaker 1: to the Fish Shack, and then did the Wyoming Mule
Speaker 1: Deer episode. I think it was in season nine where
Speaker 1: we went with on horseback up to Wyoming and and
Speaker 1: then did the Texas episode with Jesse Griffiths and JT. Fans.
Speaker 1: This year in February we did the Square which was Yeah,
Speaker 1: during that snow did you know that? So the guy
Speaker 1: that y'all hunted with and Wyoming the guide and his
Speaker 1: son what was his name? Stewart and Landon Peterson. Stewart
Speaker 1: was the dad, Landon was the sun. So Stewart Peterson Mark,
Speaker 1: did you know that Stewart Peterson that was on that
Speaker 1: season on Back Country Wyoming hunt is the boy from
Speaker 1: Where the Red Fern Grows? Somebody just told me that
Speaker 1: this one, but maybe it was him was Utah, Yeah
Speaker 1: you told me that. Yeah. So it's a great, great,
Speaker 1: great movie and book. Do you ever watch him movie
Speaker 1: like that or read a book like Where the Red
Speaker 1: Front Grows and just be like, why didn't I think
Speaker 1: of that? Because it's such a classic American story that
Speaker 1: is just so simple and so rich, and people who
Speaker 1: aren't coon hunters, people who aren't even necessarily rural people
Speaker 1: can like watch Where the Red Fern Grows and identify
Speaker 1: with it. I thought it was fascinating that this old
Speaker 1: outfitter was Billy Coleman in the movie. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: That movie was shot over here in their Tallquah, Oklahoma,
Speaker 1: which is like a couple hours from here. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were great, great guys. Yeah, they really seemed like yeah,
Speaker 1: genuine article. I think he did the child actor thing
Speaker 1: for a while and then realized it wasn't for him
Speaker 1: and just you know, started living a different life. You
Speaker 1: can tell when Billy Coleman and Where the Red Fernt
Speaker 1: Grows runs like down a gravel road and with bare feet,
Speaker 1: You're like, this dude's a real outdoors kid. But he
Speaker 1: was from wy Woman. He played a pretty good Southerner. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was from Miami, but yeah he does. I think
Speaker 1: he's a general contractor and a outfit or no, and
Speaker 1: his son is a cattle rancher. Yeah they seem like
Speaker 1: the real deal. Yeah, they're definitely the real deal. Really
Speaker 1: nice guys. Yeah, so you do a lot of videography
Speaker 1: of all kinds for meat either, that's cool man, to
Speaker 1: your right, Mark Kenyone, you're making me French. Just we're
Speaker 1: going around and like danyone Tae e met and mental Meto.
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyone, Mark, Welcome to Burgaries. Man is a big deal.
Speaker 1: Glad to be here so everybody. Most people will know
Speaker 1: who Mark Kenny is. Mark Kenyon has wired to Hunt,
Speaker 1: which is inside of the meat eater, the meat eater world.
Speaker 1: It's a it's sometimes I think it's hard for people
Speaker 1: to understand kind of meat either. They might know wired
Speaker 1: to Hunt and not realize unless they're paying attention that
Speaker 1: that that is a meat eater brand. But it's your
Speaker 1: brand and who you are. I think of meat eaters
Speaker 1: is the umbrella, and then there's all these sub brands
Speaker 1: and personalities and folks underneath it and wired hunts of thing.
Speaker 1: I started on my own men of years ago, and
Speaker 1: and then uh, when meat eater became a new thing,
Speaker 1: me and Steve merged it all together. And he were
Speaker 1: one of the first guys that came into meat Eater,
Speaker 1: were you not? You have one of the very very first,
Speaker 1: like number three or something like that. Okay, so he
Speaker 1: sought you out, he did. He called me one day,
Speaker 1: do you know Steve before that I did. We weren't
Speaker 1: like close buddies or anything. We drank a beer once
Speaker 1: and talked about books, and we've exchanged a few emails.
Speaker 1: And then one day I was sitting in Grand Teatime
Speaker 1: National Park with my wife, camped out living in our camper,
Speaker 1: and I got a phone call from Steve Ronellen, Like
Speaker 1: what in the world he called me about the rest
Speaker 1: of history. So that was what year two thousand seventeen
Speaker 1: seems like a long time ago. It did. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna come back to Mark because we were gonna talk
Speaker 1: about our hunt. Ultimately, by the end of this, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about the Warner Glenn podcast number two. To
Speaker 1: Mark's right my left Joe, also known as Big Joe.
Speaker 1: Big Joe is not He's not big like volume wise,
Speaker 1: they're like mass wise, but is very tall. Joe vanneck Out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is your so your videographer cinematographer? Can you can
Speaker 1: you describe the difference for me? For real? I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean to most people in the world that there's
Speaker 1: no difference, But within production, I would say cinematographers have
Speaker 1: like a little bit, you know, a little bit. Uh
Speaker 1: is this a self proclaimed title? I mean you get
Speaker 1: credit credited as a cinematographer. Well, what would the guy
Speaker 1: do that was a videographer? I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't want to throw it. Come this was like
Speaker 1: an ego thing. Here is what I'm catching. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's it's more artistic. Maybe a
Speaker 1: certain level of bigger paycheck, certain level of production maybe
Speaker 1: reflects the cinematographer. I don't know, Okay, certain cameras maybe
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, we have an l a producer
Speaker 1: here that could chine in on what what what's what's
Speaker 1: the difference. So since digital cameras become a thing and
Speaker 1: brands have brought in folks to shoot, this role has
Speaker 1: become a videographer where their shooting video of content and
Speaker 1: they're also editing or directing. There like a jack of
Speaker 1: all trades or Jane of all trades, where cinematographers just
Speaker 1: specializes in making cinema images, so they operate on a
Speaker 1: different scale. Typically, to the general public, the term videographer
Speaker 1: is more familiar than a cinetographer or director of photography
Speaker 1: or camera operator. It's a cinematographer on our time card.
Speaker 1: So there you go. How does filmmaker fit into this?
Speaker 1: Just skipping, just jumping above all of it. And you
Speaker 1: know I'm a filmmaker. Well this this, this is like
Speaker 1: not my film, Like I'm producing images and making things
Speaker 1: look good. But if I was, like, for instance, I'm
Speaker 1: making my own film, like as an independent cinematographer, like
Speaker 1: my own documentary film. So that's I guess qualifies me
Speaker 1: as a filmmaker. But for this show, just a cinematographer,
Speaker 1: do you guys as as videographers as excuse me, as
Speaker 1: cinematographers and as uh. It's kind of like the difference
Speaker 1: than being a someone saying, oh, you're a raccoon hunter
Speaker 1: and you go, no, I'm a coon hunter. I don't know,
Speaker 1: and it'd be like, what's what's the difference a joke? Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: as cinematographers as producers, like four of you are and
Speaker 1: that do you do? You watch a lot of films, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, like for style examples and inspiration and lighting
Speaker 1: and colors. So when you're watching a movie, you're thinking
Speaker 1: about all those things. Oh yeah, I mean people some
Speaker 1: people can't stand watching films with me. There's things just
Speaker 1: because I'm like interpreting it a little bit different maybe,
Speaker 1: or something You're paying attention to certain things. But sometimes
Speaker 1: they appreciate it. They're like, oh, I didn't think about
Speaker 1: that way. My wife has become better at doing that
Speaker 1: than I am. So she'll be just predict shows right
Speaker 1: off the bat. It's fun. She's we've switched switch sides.
Speaker 1: What do you think about do you think there is
Speaker 1: more advantage in uh, which watching other people's work. I
Speaker 1: think there's an argument argument to be made for somebody
Speaker 1: that maybe never watched anybody else's work and just went
Speaker 1: off like raw just their interpretation as opposed to be
Speaker 1: an influence, because I think we're heavily influenced in anything.
Speaker 1: Like if you turned me loose in the mountains of
Speaker 1: Arkansas to go kill a deer with a bow, and
Speaker 1: I had never had any instruction, but I understood the
Speaker 1: patterns of deer, and like, I think I would probably
Speaker 1: do it way different than the way I do it now.
Speaker 1: It's just been ingrained and me. I mean, part of
Speaker 1: the whole stick of what we're doing this week is
Speaker 1: that we're hunting a particular way because it's the way
Speaker 1: that it's a traditional way to hunt. It's not necessarily
Speaker 1: the most efficient way. Do you see what I'm saying? So,
Speaker 1: and I realized we gained so much by watching how
Speaker 1: other people do things, But sometimes I wonder if that
Speaker 1: inhibits us more than it helps us sometimes, what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts on films? And then Mark will go back
Speaker 1: to deer hunting. You know, I think, like you know,
Speaker 1: get he was saying, getting inspiration from other stuff. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, mimicry is the best form of flattery kind
Speaker 1: of thing, or if you're you're kind of learning from
Speaker 1: people that you admire and applying that to your yourself
Speaker 1: and your own cinematic process and as Jesus sounds, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like it's it's hard and
Speaker 1: a vacuum that doesn't exist, right, You're always going to
Speaker 1: be influenced by everything you watch and assume. So, but
Speaker 1: you know, there's off a lot of stuff, different rules
Speaker 1: of shooting that you need to know because you know,
Speaker 1: you can't cross the line and shoot. You know, it's
Speaker 1: hard for the editor, so you kind of have to
Speaker 1: have a basic understanding of of coverage of a scene too.
Speaker 1: So I think if you just kind of came out
Speaker 1: of the box about any of that, it could be
Speaker 1: a little bit challenging for an editor or whatever. So
Speaker 1: especially because the language of film has evolved over a century,
Speaker 1: and so we are accustomed to a certain language and
Speaker 1: once you become a master of that craft. You can
Speaker 1: change the rules that language. But you know something that
Speaker 1: your parents brought up last night when we were talking.
Speaker 1: It was the same idea of how much do you
Speaker 1: watch or how much you pay attention. Our art, or
Speaker 1: art in general, is all about sensory understanding. So if
Speaker 1: you had no hearing, no site, you know, no touch,
Speaker 1: could you could you make anything? You know? Like, what
Speaker 1: would you do? You wouldn't know that that existed. So
Speaker 1: even if we just look at a tree, we can
Speaker 1: be inspired by that and somehow capture that in our paintings.
Speaker 1: Are are are there's inspiration no matter what. You don't have
Speaker 1: a choice, you just you are only able to build
Speaker 1: on experiences you've had in a sensory world. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: realized it's probably kind of a romantic, unrealistic idea to
Speaker 1: think you would be not influenced by other people. But
Speaker 1: what if we took a paleolithic Native American who would
Speaker 1: have the full capacity for learning as us, and you
Speaker 1: could take him out of that world and put him
Speaker 1: into our world, train him on a video camera the
Speaker 1: most creative of all the bunch. You could do some
Speaker 1: tests and figure out which one was most creative. He
Speaker 1: would know the video, he would know the equipment, and
Speaker 1: he could make a video. What would it look like?
Speaker 1: How would it be different than ours? We're getting deep
Speaker 1: in the weeds boys, This is great. I could have
Speaker 1: thought on that, just in terms of we've chosen to
Speaker 1: work within a really set like set confines. We have
Speaker 1: a episode length like where we have a time limit.
Speaker 1: So you know, if you take someone in that situation,
Speaker 1: they may think that the full sunrise is the most
Speaker 1: incredible thing in film it and it's a you know,
Speaker 1: a three hour segment that doesn't translate to you know,
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do. You're we're We've chosen to
Speaker 1: work within this really like strict set of rules, so
Speaker 1: there's I think that limits capacity a little bit. You know,
Speaker 1: you gotta get everything done in twenty two minutes. It
Speaker 1: has to be a cohesive story. There has to be
Speaker 1: a start in an end, in an arc, and whatever
Speaker 1: it was they produced, I just don't think it would
Speaker 1: do well on YouTube. I I actually think that the
Speaker 1: Caveman would have a really good chance because we all,
Speaker 1: we've all evolved with similar understanding of beauty, even across
Speaker 1: different cultures. Right like the indigenous Americans versus the European Americans,
Speaker 1: like they understood art in a very similar format we've
Speaker 1: I think they'd have a good chance of making something
Speaker 1: really sick. I think I think it would be surprised
Speaker 1: at how similar are intrigue would be. I think they
Speaker 1: would make a like an hour long documentary about fire,
Speaker 1: That's what I think they would do, and Buffalo Fire,
Speaker 1: Buffalo and the sun rest that I want fantastic. Throw
Speaker 1: some Kevin Costner in there and a felt cowboy hat perfectly.
Speaker 1: Are you saying what we do is so easy a
Speaker 1: Cayman could do it, like I? So, Hey, so Mark,
Speaker 1: why don't you tell everybody kind of what we've been
Speaker 1: doing this week? Yeah? Well, the gist of this show
Speaker 1: that we're producing is that I travel across the country
Speaker 1: to meet up with interesting characters, interesting deer hunters that
Speaker 1: represent a unique style, tradition, or culture within the white
Speaker 1: tail hunting world. And I'm tasked with meeting with this
Speaker 1: person and mentoring under them, studying them for a day
Speaker 1: or so to get the gist of their area, their place,
Speaker 1: and how they do what they do. And then I
Speaker 1: need to go out and try to pull it off. Myself.
Speaker 1: So I gotta try to replicate I gotta try to
Speaker 1: guinea pig their style in their terrain and there stomping grounds.
Speaker 1: So this time we came to visit you and James
Speaker 1: Lawrence to learn about Arkansas deer hunting, hunting in the mountains,
Speaker 1: hunting in big timber, big forests, public land, and doing
Speaker 1: it the traditional way, packing in with a mule, staying
Speaker 1: out there a while, camping in the back country. And
Speaker 1: uh so that's what we did. We came out here,
Speaker 1: I met with you guys and tried to hunt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everybody that it has followed along with the Burgar's podcast
Speaker 1: would have would know James Lawrence. He was on the
Speaker 1: second or third episode, so we did a a full
Speaker 1: episode with him the shed Hornbuck. Yeah yeah, what what
Speaker 1: what were your impressions of James. James was even better
Speaker 1: than I expected, you know, I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: having listened to him on the on the podcast and
Speaker 1: heard of stories from you about him, I knew he
Speaker 1: would be a great deer hunter. I knew he'd be
Speaker 1: a character. But what I didn't expect fully was just
Speaker 1: how warm and welcoming he was. You know, how quick
Speaker 1: he was to open his arms to you and be
Speaker 1: excited for you and share with with us everything he could.
Speaker 1: And the genuine excitement he had to be a part
Speaker 1: of this with us was just it was really nice.
Speaker 1: And uh, I'll tell you, obviously a heck of a
Speaker 1: deer hunter to kill the deer he has in the
Speaker 1: places he's done it. I mean, I could tell I
Speaker 1: was impressive when I went and saw the antlers on
Speaker 1: his wall at the beginning of the trip, but it's
Speaker 1: even more impressive now at the end of the trip.
Speaker 1: We so the first day we went to James house,
Speaker 1: we spent hour two with him talking with him, and
Speaker 1: then we went out into the Mountains National Forest here
Speaker 1: in Arkansas, and there was a whole gaggle of us.
Speaker 1: There's six of us here, so we all we packed
Speaker 1: in on the mule. And so the way that the
Speaker 1: way that James, you know, he did all kind of hunting,
Speaker 1: but his favorite way to hunt was the packing with
Speaker 1: a mule or a horse. He's a horse packing with
Speaker 1: a horse and carry enough stuff that he could hunt
Speaker 1: for an extended period of time and stay way back
Speaker 1: in the woods. And it basically it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a modern version of a long hunt, you know, and
Speaker 1: so that's what we did. And you know, there's different
Speaker 1: layers of national forests. You know, there's, uh, there's some
Speaker 1: national forest that is abudding private land that has a
Speaker 1: lot of clear cuts and a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: man made alterations to the landscape, which typically means more deer.
Speaker 1: Then there's what I would call like interior mountain hunting,
Speaker 1: which would be these mountain ranges in areas that just
Speaker 1: kind of have it's all gonna have some timber, timber
Speaker 1: improvement in different things, but kind of this interior areas
Speaker 1: that probably have less deer to steason anywhere else. And
Speaker 1: that's where we tried to go. We camped, you guys camped.
Speaker 1: I actually left because I wasn't really apart. I was
Speaker 1: just a part of the film getting Mark back in here,
Speaker 1: and then Mark was on his own, so I didn't
Speaker 1: camp with you guys. But how many days did you hunt, Mark? Well,
Speaker 1: we had budgeted four hunt days, the first of which
Speaker 1: would be a morning with you where you'd be showing
Speaker 1: me around and giving me your perspective on how you
Speaker 1: would approach you know, just basically how you and James
Speaker 1: and hunt in air like this. I was picking your brain.
Speaker 1: Bought all that, and then we would have I would
Speaker 1: have three and a half days solo after that. So
Speaker 1: that's how much time we had. We didn't end up
Speaker 1: using all that time, but that's how much time we
Speaker 1: had available. And we got a late starts. We're supposed
Speaker 1: to camp in and get in there the night before,
Speaker 1: but because of all sorts of outside of our hands circumstances,
Speaker 1: we got a late starts. We got in a day late,
Speaker 1: and we left a little early. So short it was
Speaker 1: a short, long hunt. Yeah. Yeah, Well do you want
Speaker 1: to do we want to tell that clearly, I mean
Speaker 1: talking to me, just kind of describe the terrain and
Speaker 1: kind of what we did and then just your hunt. Well,
Speaker 1: if you're willing to spill the beans, oh why not? Yeah?
Speaker 1: The Bear Grease Render podcast is a good places any
Speaker 1: all right. So we, like you mentioned, we packed in
Speaker 1: our stuff on Izzie on your mule, and that was
Speaker 1: definitely the easiest hike in I've ever had for a
Speaker 1: bad country hunt. Because she carried my backpack too. I
Speaker 1: felt guilty, um, but it was nice, and I never
Speaker 1: feel guilty loading a mule down to the hilt. I
Speaker 1: think of every what I whisper under my breath or
Speaker 1: when i'm if I'm by myself, I actually say it
Speaker 1: out loud to the mule. I say, I feed you
Speaker 1: every day of your life. You can do this for
Speaker 1: me today and not throw a bit. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it was funny though. We we talked about this while
Speaker 1: we were filming the other day, but watching her walk on,
Speaker 1: I got to thinking, like, is she like a hunt dog?
Speaker 1: Like is this her super Bowl? Has she been sitting
Speaker 1: in her you know, sitting in the pasture, sitting in
Speaker 1: the barn for weeks, just waiting for this chance to
Speaker 1: get out and do or work. He said, Nope, she's
Speaker 1: she's not excited about this at all. Yeah, Now that
Speaker 1: that was an insightful question that I've never heard it
Speaker 1: asked like that. People have asked, you know, do you
Speaker 1: think they like doing this? And my and it will
Speaker 1: go through it again because it's an interesting thought. You know,
Speaker 1: does this is this animal pumped when I put it
Speaker 1: in the trailer because it knows it's gonna go out
Speaker 1: in the back country and get out of the you know,
Speaker 1: the pasture for a couple of days. And I believe
Speaker 1: the answer is no. And that is partly because I
Speaker 1: read a book years ago called Evidence Based Horsemanship where
Speaker 1: a neurologist and a horse trainer got together and wrote
Speaker 1: a book that changed the equine training world because for years,
Speaker 1: people anthropomorphized horses and mules, because a horse might treat
Speaker 1: Tyler different than they treat Joe, just like he would,
Speaker 1: and people would would presume that, well, that horse doesn't
Speaker 1: like me, or that horse, you know, doesn't it's mean
Speaker 1: to me and not to him, And basically it affected
Speaker 1: the way people trained and handled their horses. Well, these
Speaker 1: neurologyist came in and really studied the science, the brain
Speaker 1: science of an equine animal, and basically they have they
Speaker 1: don't have a place in their brain to like you
Speaker 1: or not like you, like it is not there. They
Speaker 1: have an extremely big part of the brain that governs
Speaker 1: the physical movement of their body. Like basically, if the
Speaker 1: brain were an engine, like a big chunk of that
Speaker 1: engine would be dedicated to actually driving their body, you know,
Speaker 1: this thousand pound body. Even more so than like the
Speaker 1: human body, a very small part of that brain would
Speaker 1: be dedicated to the ability to reason and think, which
Speaker 1: they basically don't have the ability to do. Like you
Speaker 1: can put out. The best example was like you put
Speaker 1: out a hay bell for a horse. He is not
Speaker 1: thinking I'm gonna stash some of that hey away for
Speaker 1: next week when I won't have hey, like he just
Speaker 1: he thought hey. Point being that animal, the main things
Speaker 1: that animal is worried about is the main flight response.
Speaker 1: The main response that animal has this flight response to
Speaker 1: predation that is a massive factor in their life is
Speaker 1: staying safe and breeding and then having a full belly.
Speaker 1: And so like a kind of like Matt, Matt pointing
Speaker 1: to himself, I didn't breeding. So a dog though, a
Speaker 1: primary instinct in that dog is a prey drive to
Speaker 1: go get something, And so we're on the same page
Speaker 1: of that animal. We want to go get a coil,
Speaker 1: we want to go get a bear or whatever. So
Speaker 1: anyway I think that is he is happy. The other
Speaker 1: thing is that they fit into a a a dominance.
Speaker 1: Everything about training mules and horses is about dominance. And
Speaker 1: by dominance, I don't mean like physically dominating the animal.
Speaker 1: But that animal when it views you andreas All, the
Speaker 1: only way it knows how to register you is am
Speaker 1: I in charger? Is he in charge? Who's in charge? Here?
Speaker 1: And so if you established that you're in charge, then
Speaker 1: that animal will do what you want. If it figures
Speaker 1: out that you're intimidated buy it, or that it can
Speaker 1: bully you, it absolutely will. We used to read our
Speaker 1: kids a book called if you give a Moose a muffin?
Speaker 1: Do you can read that? So, if you give a
Speaker 1: moose a muffin, he'll come in your house and want
Speaker 1: to drink of water. If you give him a glass
Speaker 1: of water, then he'll come in your house and he'll
Speaker 1: want to sit on the couch. It's a cute little
Speaker 1: kid's book. So if you give a mule a muffin,
Speaker 1: you're in trouble. So you always got to keep him
Speaker 1: in line. So you know there's a future for you
Speaker 1: and children's books. You do the Arkansas version of that,
Speaker 1: give a mule u? Do you regret giving Issy and Apple? Now? No,
Speaker 1: not at all for me. Yeah, so yeah, mules. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't give the cliff Notes version of this because
Speaker 1: I know we want to get to other things. Um, basically,
Speaker 1: just we packed in there a few miles, we set
Speaker 1: up a base camp, and then you and I struck
Speaker 1: out for a morning of kind of still hunting through
Speaker 1: the mountains, And basically I was just picking your brain
Speaker 1: and all the things. I want to know, what's the
Speaker 1: kind of stuff you think you're they're feeding on out here,
Speaker 1: what kind of habitat are they key and in on?
Speaker 1: What are the terrain features of these deer are using.
Speaker 1: You were pointing out a lot of differences to me.
Speaker 1: I'd say one of the things that stood out the
Speaker 1: most to me was how you should interpret sign in
Speaker 1: a place like this compared to how you might interpret
Speaker 1: a sign or observations in a place in the Midwest
Speaker 1: where there's much higher deer densities, because very low deer
Speaker 1: density here. And so you talked about making a chart,
Speaker 1: which I think we should make, and I think we
Speaker 1: should sell it on the mediator store. This would be
Speaker 1: one rub in Arkansas equals fifteen rubs in Iowa. One
Speaker 1: dear sighting in Arkansas equals twenty deer in Iowa. Whatever
Speaker 1: it was um because there's so little sign of of
Speaker 1: any life out there. When it came to white tails,
Speaker 1: at least we saw it. We fought, excuse me, we
Speaker 1: saw zero droppings. Just the the several small tracks we
Speaker 1: saw when you and I were together, we found one
Speaker 1: little dinky rub and we saw one just half I
Speaker 1: can't cuss in this podcast, kind of one one real
Speaker 1: small little scrape. Uh So it wasn't terribly encouraging from
Speaker 1: a sign perspective, but you were telling me, oh, this
Speaker 1: is pretty great. So so that was eye opening to me. Um.
Speaker 1: So I got the lay of the landing and just
Speaker 1: kind of saw how you would do it and how
Speaker 1: James taught you to do it, and and try to
Speaker 1: get enough of an understanding to be head out there
Speaker 1: in my own that was that was the beginning. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then walk us through the hunts. You had four hunts, ye,
Speaker 1: so you you Clay took off, You took off, went home,
Speaker 1: and we were hunting high saddles. Yeah, this is one
Speaker 1: big mountain that had a few saddles in it. And
Speaker 1: and both you and James had reiterated to me multiple
Speaker 1: times saddles were really the name of the game. It
Speaker 1: was a terrain feature and these big ridges that deer
Speaker 1: would use to cross the big ridge. And while there's
Speaker 1: a number of different ways deer use these mountains, a
Speaker 1: number of different terrain features, they might relate to saddles
Speaker 1: where we're the most huntable. I think that was a
Speaker 1: key thing, Like you could try different things, but this
Speaker 1: was a way that was particularly hunting, and it had
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with the wind higher up
Speaker 1: on the mountains. If you gotta if you got a
Speaker 1: south wind, you actually get a south wind. If you're
Speaker 1: on the side of the mountain with a south wind,
Speaker 1: it's gonna swirl, it's gonna hit this mountain and do
Speaker 1: all kind of weird stuff. So the saddles are huntable.
Speaker 1: And what I said to you, and what I wanted
Speaker 1: to reiterate, because there's a lot of guys that kill
Speaker 1: good deer in this part of the world that probably
Speaker 1: would be like, well, I don't hunt that many high saddles.
Speaker 1: There's other ways to do it, you know, in the
Speaker 1: deer's world in in this part of the country, Like
Speaker 1: he's probably doing eight things really consistently. This is one
Speaker 1: of them, you know. I mean, he's going to bed
Speaker 1: probably in similar areas on the mountain, he's traveling benches
Speaker 1: in similar as, he's feeding in similar areas, he's getting
Speaker 1: water every day somewhere. But basically it's just like you
Speaker 1: can kill him in saddles because in the saddle is
Speaker 1: a low spot on a long ridge, and so that's
Speaker 1: just kind of what we keyed in on. Yes, we're
Speaker 1: looking for saddles, some little bit assigned, just confirmative deer
Speaker 1: coming through though. And then we wanted to find those
Speaker 1: things close to acorns because we figured that's that's what
Speaker 1: they're kid in on feeding. So that first night, what
Speaker 1: did you say, what kind of Oh yeah, acorns, acorns, Oh, acorns.
Speaker 1: That's so we found We found all those things in
Speaker 1: a couple of spots. And so that first night I
Speaker 1: went into the first saddle. It was nice, thick, brushy saddle.
Speaker 1: Brought my uh incredible cameraman Tyler and Joe with me.
Speaker 1: We climbed up in trees and we decided we'd sit
Speaker 1: up high that first night because it kind of seemed
Speaker 1: to like a destination that you need to get a
Speaker 1: good advantage point of. So we did the tree thing
Speaker 1: that night. We saw one dough out of range. We
Speaker 1: went back the next morning, which I was thrilled about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when I you came back to camp, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you saw a deer yep, good yep. So that was
Speaker 1: somewhat encouraging. Next day saw nothing. So that afternoon I
Speaker 1: decided you know what, it's time to take another page
Speaker 1: James book and do the still hunting thing. So that
Speaker 1: evening I still hunted my way through an acre. Weren't
Speaker 1: flat through that first saddle, up another knob to this
Speaker 1: other ridge, and I came across another spot with with
Speaker 1: a bunch of acorns that weren't there the first day
Speaker 1: when you and I walked through, because they weren't as
Speaker 1: thick in this spot. So I saw that, It's like,
Speaker 1: oh interesting. And then I glanced over to my left
Speaker 1: and I saw this brushy point coming off the main ridge,
Speaker 1: and it caught my eye. Hadn't noticed it when you
Speaker 1: and I were out there, and I caught I just
Speaker 1: caught a glimpse into that cheese. That looks like something
Speaker 1: should be bedding in that. So I just stood in
Speaker 1: glass for a while, and I edged my way off
Speaker 1: the little trail and I just started sidehilling toward that,
Speaker 1: just to get a better look. And as I'm heading
Speaker 1: towards that, I find a rub multiple saplings all rubbed up.
Speaker 1: So I thought, well, this looks good, and I sat
Speaker 1: and I watched that brushy point for a while and
Speaker 1: then slipped on past that around the knob and on
Speaker 1: the other side, and I have another ripped up tree.
Speaker 1: So now I found two rubs in the same little knob.
Speaker 1: And then I looked at on X and I noted
Speaker 1: that little tiny scrape we found the day before it
Speaker 1: was just on the other side of this too. So
Speaker 1: all this sign, which now is the most sign we've
Speaker 1: seen anywhere on this trip, is right around a snob,
Speaker 1: and there's a second saddle that drops off that nub.
Speaker 1: And so I thought to myself, as I'm seeing all
Speaker 1: this and these things are looking good, better and better,
Speaker 1: I thought, why don't just sitting the side of this
Speaker 1: knob and watch that saddle and see if this kind
Speaker 1: of combination of factors pans out. Did that? Saw three
Speaker 1: doors that night come across that saddle out of range.
Speaker 1: So the next morning my plan was head back in
Speaker 1: there first light, slip into that saddle, and get closer
Speaker 1: to where they crossed. And to make a long story short,
Speaker 1: we ended up seeing several deer moved through that saddle,
Speaker 1: and one of them around late in the morning. Late
Speaker 1: in the morning, one of them came crunch crunching just
Speaker 1: over my right shoulder. I'm sitting on the ground and
Speaker 1: I heard a twig snap. Turn my head to the right,
Speaker 1: look past my cameraman here, Mr Tyler, and I just
Speaker 1: see antlers coming down the ridge, not far not far
Speaker 1: away at all. And um eight point buck was walking
Speaker 1: straight past this quarter in a way and lo and behold,
Speaker 1: we got the camera on him. I got the gun history.
Speaker 1: Let let let a shot buzzle loader huntinguzuzz could have
Speaker 1: killed him with a bow. It was was bow range
Speaker 1: probably when I shot him. And um, yeah, killed me
Speaker 1: an eight point Arkansas buck. Awesome, man, it was wild.
Speaker 1: It was not. I didn't expect that to happen the
Speaker 1: way the way things are going. You haven't a You don't.
Speaker 1: You don't realize how much pressure is on something like this.
Speaker 1: And not not from the even the video perspective. But
Speaker 1: if you had come to Arkansas and he said, Claire,
Speaker 1: I got three and a half days, I don't want
Speaker 1: to kill a buck. I mean that's a pretty short
Speaker 1: amount of time really anywhere to go hunt. I mean
Speaker 1: you could hunt and some of the best places in
Speaker 1: the country and say you got three and a half
Speaker 1: days to kill a representative de your here, so and
Speaker 1: to do it here, I'd say it was we were
Speaker 1: all really happy that I think this is your one
Speaker 1: of the two top hardest hunts. I happy this season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so there's a series of hunts that Mark's doing. I
Speaker 1: don't envy you for this, Mark, It's a tricky endeavor.
Speaker 1: It's funny, you know, me and Ben, we're the ones
Speaker 1: who came up with this idea and planned out the
Speaker 1: hunts and planned out what we're gonna do. And you
Speaker 1: know a year ago when we were first spitballing this
Speaker 1: whole idea, like, man, this is a great concept. This
Speaker 1: is gonna be fun, this is gonna be really interesting,
Speaker 1: and it never really somehow, I'm some kind of idiot
Speaker 1: for not really thinking this through, but it didn't really
Speaker 1: cross my mind until I was actually going out in
Speaker 1: these hunts, just how crazy it was to try to
Speaker 1: pull this kind of thing off and make a TV show.
Speaker 1: Like most all hunting TV shows, especially White Tail. Are
Speaker 1: you know, going to some big, managed, fancy property and
Speaker 1: you've got seven days and it's already preset for you.
Speaker 1: We're going to some outfitter and it's all ready to
Speaker 1: rock and roll those big bucks all over the place.
Speaker 1: Nobody goes to some random place spends a day talking
Speaker 1: to someone learn about the area and then tries to
Speaker 1: go figure it out all on their own with just
Speaker 1: three days to hunt. It's not a recipe for success.
Speaker 1: It is a very interesting concept, and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to see to see them all and see it all
Speaker 1: put together. It's it's it's gonna be interesting, and we
Speaker 1: were very fortunate that this one worked out it very well.
Speaker 1: Couldn't have the increased pressure of time such a mental
Speaker 1: mental game. Tell Mark, if he was here for seven
Speaker 1: full days, like I would have thought, Man, well, well
Speaker 1: he'll get on a good buck and seven full days.
Speaker 1: But three and a half days is way different than seven.
Speaker 1: And with the muzzle litter, which you don't hunt muzzle
Speaker 1: litter because like as consistently as somebody out here withou like,
Speaker 1: you're a bow hunter primarily, and those muzzle litters are difficult.
Speaker 1: There's always something going wrong. There's yeah, there really is.
Speaker 1: The more I messed with muzzloters, the more I realized
Speaker 1: there's so many things that can go wrong with them.
Speaker 1: I'd rather shoot any day of the the week. I would
Speaker 1: trust a bowl a lot more in the muzzlow. Yeah, Mark,
Speaker 1: you're you're an uppa guy. Pretty much all the time.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling at like nine am that morning,
Speaker 1: so you fired the shot at where was your head
Speaker 1: at it like nine? Yeah, that's a great question. And
Speaker 1: and in my very speedy recollection of the hunt right there,
Speaker 1: I made it sound like it was action packed and quick,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that sounded pretty action packed. I saw deer
Speaker 1: and then nothing, and then a couple of deer and
Speaker 1: then nothing. But you gotta understand that those deer settings,
Speaker 1: you know, the one deer that was like a four
Speaker 1: second deer encounter the first night, and the next night
Speaker 1: it was five seconds of them very quickly passing through
Speaker 1: and then then I killed. But that was over the
Speaker 1: course of you know, four days, many long hours, um,
Speaker 1: so of the hunt was filled with Man, we are
Speaker 1: not seeing anything. I've got very little signed to work with,
Speaker 1: you know, I am really a What I love about
Speaker 1: deer hunting in a lot of ways is the analytical Uh.
Speaker 1: It's the chess match. It's trying to understand all the
Speaker 1: different pieces. It's studying the playing, studying the bull ward
Speaker 1: and figure out how to move these pieces around and
Speaker 1: where these pieces are and what they mean and and
Speaker 1: all that. And I kept as we're going through this hunt,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was hunting blind. There's so little
Speaker 1: new data to work with. There's almost no sign at all.
Speaker 1: So it's not like I could scout until I find
Speaker 1: hot sign because one little rub might be the best
Speaker 1: we're gonna find. And how do you interpret that. I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be able to scout around until I
Speaker 1: bumped a bunch of deer. I wasn't gonna see four
Speaker 1: or five, six, seven deer doing different things and be
Speaker 1: a pattern what they're doing like you might in other places.
Speaker 1: So much of this time I was sitting here just
Speaker 1: going back and forth in my head about you know,
Speaker 1: what to do and how to do and how we're
Speaker 1: gonna make the most of this and how it somehow
Speaker 1: going to come together and what it came down to
Speaker 1: in the end, And basically where my head was at
Speaker 1: at nine am on that fourth day was I'm not
Speaker 1: really in control here. I can do a few things right.
Speaker 1: There's a few things that I can trust, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna trust the terrain, trust the saddle. I'm going to,
Speaker 1: you know, trust my basic instincts as a hunter to
Speaker 1: to be in the right place with the right vantage
Speaker 1: point and make sure we're doing the right thing in
Speaker 1: the moment so that if some opportunity did come along,
Speaker 1: would be ready for it. But what I was telling myself,
Speaker 1: literally the words in my mind, We're just wait and
Speaker 1: see what the mountain gives you. I'm just gonna see
Speaker 1: what the mountain gives you. And it might be a dough,
Speaker 1: it might be nothing at all, and we're just gonna
Speaker 1: have an experience out here and just gonna enjoy this
Speaker 1: trip for what it was. But we're not gonna kill anything.
Speaker 1: I just had done an interview to camera talking about
Speaker 1: this very thing, talking about how my dad was always
Speaker 1: really good at this, and that when I was a
Speaker 1: kid sitting with my dad, I just always remember him
Speaker 1: and I would find him like annoyingly upbeat about it,
Speaker 1: because he would be, man, this is the most beautiful sky, Godly,
Speaker 1: look at these leaves. This is just terrific weather. And
Speaker 1: it would be sitting out there, we hadn't seen a
Speaker 1: deer for six hours or something, and I'm thinking we
Speaker 1: should be seeing more, Dear, why isn't this going better?
Speaker 1: And Dad would just be john about you know what
Speaker 1: a great maple candy this was or whatever. He was
Speaker 1: just always enjoying it, joined the experience and the surroundings.
Speaker 1: And I've always been very goal oriented, very uh achievement oriented,
Speaker 1: and so I naturally have I have to work hard
Speaker 1: to take a step back and just soaking things for
Speaker 1: what they are without like striving for the next thing.
Speaker 1: And so I was speaking to camera just about how
Speaker 1: I need to be a little more like my dad
Speaker 1: in this moment, because this seems like the kind of
Speaker 1: place that requires that, and and really this is the
Speaker 1: kind of place that helps, uh teach you to to
Speaker 1: live like that a little bit. And I was kind
Speaker 1: of accepting of that and thinking to myself, Man, we
Speaker 1: were down to just one more day or less half
Speaker 1: day or whatever it was, and in my hard hearts,
Speaker 1: I knew it was gonna be a real long shot
Speaker 1: to get something killed. And just moments after that, minutes
Speaker 1: after that, here comes that buck. So you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what you want to call it, but I
Speaker 1: kind of looked that buck is a gift. You know,
Speaker 1: in this out of hunting, you can't be validated by
Speaker 1: seeing game. I say that all the time, even with
Speaker 1: bear hunting in national forest, deer hunting in national forest,
Speaker 1: and part of hunting is. It's so fun to hunt
Speaker 1: in game rich areas, so like there's not it's so
Speaker 1: fun to sit and watch a lot of deer. But
Speaker 1: you have to go way backwards to be successful in
Speaker 1: the in the mountains, you're just not gonna see a
Speaker 1: lot of deer, you know. But I think that's a
Speaker 1: good thing. I like to be able to go from
Speaker 1: both worlds because there's places I hunt in Arkansas where
Speaker 1: we do see. If I don't see a deer when
Speaker 1: I'm hunting, I'm in the wrong spot. Just because you
Speaker 1: ought to be seeing deer every day, you know, every
Speaker 1: every sit, you know, every couple of hours, you know,
Speaker 1: in the mountains not so you know, you're just looking
Speaker 1: for that one chance of a a deer. So anyway, good job, man.
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. And then we hauled the
Speaker 1: deer out on Izzie's back. We pulled the old ribs
Speaker 1: slip behind the shoulder, put the deer over the saddle
Speaker 1: horn is he hauled the deer out. He said to me,
Speaker 1: this is how they hauled dead people out of here too,
Speaker 1: stripe him over the saddle. Yeah, um, what did you say?
Speaker 1: You skinned it with James Lawrence? Yeah? And then we went,
Speaker 1: we took it back to James's house. Oh yeah, we
Speaker 1: we got We gotta say something, man, James Lawrence, of
Speaker 1: all the people hunt with, he is the best at
Speaker 1: very genuinely convincing you that he is more excited than
Speaker 1: you are about the thing that you've done. And he's no,
Speaker 1: he's no. I wanted to say respector of persons, but
Speaker 1: like he doesn't really even know Mark, and he genuinely
Speaker 1: was pumped from he was giving you a hug. He
Speaker 1: shook your hand and gave you a big hug. I
Speaker 1: think I'm more excited the new lar, bigger smile. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a perfect mentor in that sense. He'll always be
Speaker 1: excited for you when you need it. Yeah, man, that's
Speaker 1: a that's something that I aspire to be like because
Speaker 1: you can't fabricate it. You can't. It's not just like
Speaker 1: I said in this Warner Glen podcast. Here boy, he's
Speaker 1: a pro. Well, he's a pro gentleman that you you
Speaker 1: can string words together in English and say sentences that
Speaker 1: maybe the right words, but if those words aren't connected
Speaker 1: to something really authentic, we all know it. I want
Speaker 1: to work on being that supportive and genuine inside of
Speaker 1: my interest in what other people are doing. And and boy,
Speaker 1: you can't fabricate it's got to really be. Like James,
Speaker 1: I believe was really pumped that Mark came killed a
Speaker 1: deer here. And you know, because he could have said,
Speaker 1: oh wow, Mark, I'm proud of you. That's great, good job.
Speaker 1: He ended his hunt early, knowing we were driving up
Speaker 1: to his drive away. He got out of his stand
Speaker 1: came to see us. He was like Jones in because
Speaker 1: he knew Mark killed something. Yeah, you know how I
Speaker 1: know that you are genuinely interested and excited about what
Speaker 1: somebody has to say. What you do this and anybody
Speaker 1: that listens to your podcast will know this. You go
Speaker 1: mm hmmm, that's you gotta you gotta real salad sound
Speaker 1: that you use a lot Mark, if you listen to me.
Speaker 1: I think I need to tone this back a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's good, it's your thing that's prerecorded. It just hits
Speaker 1: the button. I try to teach my kids to be
Speaker 1: it's important in communication to be to give feedback to
Speaker 1: people firm. I'm not talking to that rock on the wall.
Speaker 1: You know there's I want to I want to I
Speaker 1: want some I want some feedback. So I like to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Warner Glenn. This is the second podcast in our series,
Speaker 1: and I love highlighting people like Warner Glenn, Mark asked
Speaker 1: me yesterday. He is like, so give me a general
Speaker 1: sense of like why Warrener Glenn would be a well
Speaker 1: known guy. And it's not like he's done like one
Speaker 1: thing that made him who he is. It's more just
Speaker 1: the totality of who he is and what he represents.
Speaker 1: Part of it is his age to me that he's
Speaker 1: so special, like in today's time, like the older that
Speaker 1: somebody gets, the further back that there that their perspectives go,
Speaker 1: and is the modern world continues to progress it like
Speaker 1: this incredibly rapid pace. I feel like some of these
Speaker 1: some of these people that really have a time stamp
Speaker 1: on their life in the earth for the kind of
Speaker 1: view that they have of this planet. It we we
Speaker 1: every day we lose these people. And so I do
Speaker 1: feel a burden almost too to talk to some of
Speaker 1: these guys just to see. I mean, like, how do
Speaker 1: you view the world? You know, what what is it
Speaker 1: like inside of your life? And an interview Mr Warner
Speaker 1: was like that for me, and uh, He's he represents
Speaker 1: so much. But Andrea's you've listened to both the podcast.
Speaker 1: What did you think of? So you just said something interesting.
Speaker 1: He's lived a very authentic life close to the land,
Speaker 1: and historically success has been around how well you can
Speaker 1: live with in your resources. As time moves forward and
Speaker 1: we modernize, that success has shifted away from like being
Speaker 1: close to the land, to all the other things we've
Speaker 1: fabricated to have a successful excuse me, a successful society.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's why he's so special, because
Speaker 1: his success is around his survival and his authenticity, where
Speaker 1: monitoring success doesn't fall within that. So I think that's
Speaker 1: why I feel strongly about these stories as well, because
Speaker 1: it's so contrast to what has evolved in the pain
Speaker 1: existing in the consumption. And someone like Warner Glenn has
Speaker 1: self created. Obviously, he fell into that ranch because of
Speaker 1: his ancestors, but he has perpetuated his existence, and that's
Speaker 1: what's important. I think that's something interesting that everybody here
Speaker 1: has also done. Now we're all sitting here because we
Speaker 1: have perpetuatedly pursued our existence to be shooting a film
Speaker 1: or to be creating a brand around bear hunting or
Speaker 1: white tailed deer, and so it's a little bit more
Speaker 1: modern what we do. Guys like Warner Glenn have our
Speaker 1: inspirational in that sense. That's my take. Yeah, I like
Speaker 1: what really what really stood out is that he he
Speaker 1: does something unique that I think is kind of lost
Speaker 1: in modern culture, and that's being like tied to his property,
Speaker 1: his animals, so that you know, he wakes up and
Speaker 1: sort of repeats the same thing, being waken up at
Speaker 1: four am and saddling the mules and running the dogs.
Speaker 1: Like he's really tied to his place and he's been
Speaker 1: doing that. You know, it seems repetitious. He does that
Speaker 1: every day. You've got to run the dogs, you've got
Speaker 1: to feed your animals, you've got to tend your land,
Speaker 1: and uh, but it's obviously given him like a deep
Speaker 1: sense of peace and longevity. He's been doing it for
Speaker 1: eight eight decades, right, and you know, I think folks
Speaker 1: now every it's that rush to you know, work hard,
Speaker 1: work hard, retire and then it's leisure time. But he's
Speaker 1: you know, it's obvious it seems like it's extended his
Speaker 1: life and his well being by just simply repeating that
Speaker 1: every day and having that connection to his property and
Speaker 1: his animals. And you know, he's tied to his land.
Speaker 1: And that's where when he said he was talking about
Speaker 1: the reward of doing the kind of work that he does,
Speaker 1: and he said, if you're interested in monetary type rewards,
Speaker 1: that was the phrase that he used. Remember that, then
Speaker 1: you probably don't want to be a dry ground line
Speaker 1: hunter in a rancher. I like that because in today's world,
Speaker 1: it's almost as if there's only one option for what
Speaker 1: most people are thinking about, which would be monetary type rewards.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying everybody thinks like that, but I
Speaker 1: would say the vast majority of people of their lives
Speaker 1: are dominated by this idea that money is going is
Speaker 1: the end goal, and that money is gonna be what
Speaker 1: gives them the freedom that they want. And that is
Speaker 1: the American way. That is the that is the Western philosophy.
Speaker 1: That is deep, deep, deep. Even if you think you
Speaker 1: don't do it, you probably that's somewhere. And I like
Speaker 1: it that Warner was just like, if that's the way,
Speaker 1: you know, He's like, they're there are two ways to
Speaker 1: look at life. You could you could look at the
Speaker 1: monetary type reward system, or you could and and I
Speaker 1: asked him, I said, what what is the reward for
Speaker 1: your style lifestyle, because he he said, he's not doing
Speaker 1: it for the money, so like, what what's your reward?
Speaker 1: And that's when he went into talking about the beauty
Speaker 1: of the land, and he talked about the creator, and
Speaker 1: he talked about seeing the complexity of nature. He talked
Speaker 1: about things connected to the tides and the moons and
Speaker 1: went a little fawn, it's born, you know, he kind
Speaker 1: of he kind of got poetic there for a minute. Well,
Speaker 1: don't you feel that the monetary pursuit is a very
Speaker 1: post industrial revolution, post war cultural effect, Like it's because
Speaker 1: we've become so productive that we have that luxury of
Speaker 1: creating another form of survival game. But he doesn't have
Speaker 1: that luxury, or he didn't choose to take on that lifestyle.
Speaker 1: So in a sense, he has found small rewards every
Speaker 1: day and throughout time, and he's built his own reward
Speaker 1: system that you kind of need that when you're surviving
Speaker 1: off the land in Arizona. What did you guys think
Speaker 1: about Kelly Kelly Glenn camberro with her being in movies
Speaker 1: and being the ruder girl. That was pretty cool when yeah,
Speaker 1: just a wild set of circumstances though that families found
Speaker 1: themselves in. You know, you wouldn't necessarily expect that this
Speaker 1: ranching family from down on the border would get tangled
Speaker 1: up in that kind of stuff. But there more Hollywood
Speaker 1: and Andreas and some ways, wow, more Hollywood than Andreas.
Speaker 1: Thank God. I think she just she said, yes, the
Speaker 1: unique opportunities that maybe other folks wouldn't have the tenacity
Speaker 1: to do so, like at the time, like her getting
Speaker 1: involved with Ruger when it was a really like you know,
Speaker 1: male dominating industry and just taking that chance and being like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll go for it, and and being really successful at it.
Speaker 1: I think that's admirable. Absolutely. I agree with who Matt said,
Speaker 1: the opportunity, the season, the opportunity. I imagine that they
Speaker 1: had become very good at that. She stayed though, even
Speaker 1: through the Hollywood thing. It was cool that she still
Speaker 1: was just come back and drag around lion hunting, and
Speaker 1: you know, she didn't move to Hollywood and flapping us,
Speaker 1: you know, right off into the sunset. She kind of
Speaker 1: kept her roots through it all. I thought it was
Speaker 1: kind of cool. You can't take time off. There's always
Speaker 1: work to do, especially in that environment. They teach you
Speaker 1: that in l a, No, they teach you that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have a bunch of pens and ranchers, So I
Speaker 1: admire the work effort and the I mean I like working.
Speaker 1: I think it's admirable to how to pursuit and become
Speaker 1: good at it and be very consistent. Consistency is everything
Speaker 1: in life. If you're consistent, you'll find your own success.
Speaker 1: Success is such a perverse word now, I mean we
Speaker 1: we should be able to find success in everything, even small,
Speaker 1: even big, And we shouldn't compare our success to others
Speaker 1: because then you'll never understand true happiness. I fall the
Speaker 1: victim to that too, right, I think we all do
Speaker 1: in the sense of the modern environment. But however, I
Speaker 1: think they know to be successful every day they need
Speaker 1: to get up all right. This well needs to be fixed,
Speaker 1: that fence needs to be fixed. I need to get
Speaker 1: my mules out here, or whatever they need to do.
Speaker 1: It's not a lifestyle I would want to live, but
Speaker 1: I admire it greatly. You know what Warner said that
Speaker 1: stuck with me more than anything. It was right at
Speaker 1: the end of the episode, and it hit me like
Speaker 1: a pile of rocks. It spoke to me, probably because
Speaker 1: of the headspace I've been in lately. But you said
Speaker 1: something along the lines, you know, what's what's the secret
Speaker 1: to the good life or something like that. And he
Speaker 1: sat there, I think he chuckled, and he said, you
Speaker 1: know what, it's just to not worry about so many things.
Speaker 1: There's just not a lot of things worth worrying too
Speaker 1: much about in life, you know. He went on a
Speaker 1: little bit from there about the simple things are often
Speaker 1: what matter the most, and getting all wound up about
Speaker 1: all the others it's just a quick way to get
Speaker 1: stressed out and and worried and lose sight of the
Speaker 1: good stuff. And I'm, you know, so guilty of that
Speaker 1: so often, over worrying, overthinking, etcetera, etcetera. And it was
Speaker 1: just it was just like the thing that I needed
Speaker 1: to hear after you have six days of stressing about
Speaker 1: this thing, stressing about that thing, and uh, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean so much of our lives, whether we worry
Speaker 1: about financial success, worrying about career success, worrying about how
Speaker 1: many points are kids gonna score in the basketball game,
Speaker 1: or worry about am I gonna do this in a
Speaker 1: way that these people will thinks right, or that these
Speaker 1: people will will like or whatever, and so much of
Speaker 1: it's so trivial, and people don't care about most of
Speaker 1: the other things. We build these these false idols in
Speaker 1: our mind of of what matters or what other people
Speaker 1: will think about us, and and all we're doing is
Speaker 1: is perpetuating our own misery. And Uh, if we could
Speaker 1: all live like Warner a little bit more, not worry
Speaker 1: about as much, focus on a few important things, do
Speaker 1: them well, do them right, be there with your family,
Speaker 1: and enjoy it all for what it is. Man. That's
Speaker 1: that's how you get to eighty five and be riding
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five thousand miles in a lifetime and
Speaker 1: killing lions and just finding what you love and doing
Speaker 1: it and doing it well, and let the chips fall
Speaker 1: where they may on everything else. You know that statement
Speaker 1: that Warner made. I'm glad you brought that up, because
Speaker 1: I've thought about that a lot since I was there
Speaker 1: with him, because somebody else could have said that and
Speaker 1: it would have just been like a cliche answer. But
Speaker 1: I knew when he said it he meant and he
Speaker 1: even said that, he said, it's really hard to do.
Speaker 1: He said, it's hard not to worry about stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I've analyze that because it's it's it is very hard.
Speaker 1: I think everybody worries. I mean like I have a
Speaker 1: really good life. I feel like I have a really
Speaker 1: stable life. I worry about stuff. I mean that would
Speaker 1: be like something and somebody could be like, what are
Speaker 1: you worrying about? You know, you got a good family,
Speaker 1: you got a good job, you got this We human nature.
Speaker 1: Human nature is to worry about stuff. And I think
Speaker 1: it's point, and I think it would be backed by
Speaker 1: modern science, is that anxiety and worry is probably one
Speaker 1: of the biggest health risks that we have long term.
Speaker 1: It's just this weight on us that is about us
Speaker 1: all the time. It definitely does not help you live
Speaker 1: long time. The anxiety will take years off your life.
Speaker 1: What I what I've thought about how to deal with
Speaker 1: that stuff is like, think about all the stuff you
Speaker 1: worry about and then think about the resolution of that thing,
Speaker 1: whether he would it would even be like a year later,
Speaker 1: do you a year from now, will you remember the
Speaker 1: worry about the Deer Culture film? You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: so it's like, can you skip the middleman and just say,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just gonna try the best I can.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hunt as hard as I can for the
Speaker 1: three days every place I've got and like skip the
Speaker 1: middleman of worry. Yeah, you know there's two. There's yet
Speaker 1: it's hard. There's two things that I've I've found picked
Speaker 1: up from folks that I've found helpful kind of exercises
Speaker 1: of sorts that can kind of help snap you out
Speaker 1: of that thinking. So one thing's known as fear setting.
Speaker 1: You ever heard of fear setting? So you look at
Speaker 1: a situation. Let's say I'm stressed out because I don't
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna kill a buck on this hunt, and
Speaker 1: this episode is gonna suck and my show is not
Speaker 1: gonna do all of that. So fear setting would be
Speaker 1: where you think, Okay, there's this thing you're worried about.
Speaker 1: What's the worst case scenario, Like you've played all the
Speaker 1: potential scenarios of what could happen here, Like, what's the
Speaker 1: worst thing that could happen? All? Right, So let's say
Speaker 1: I don't kill a buck and I'm allows the TV
Speaker 1: show host and the show doesn't do good and nobody
Speaker 1: likes it. What's the worst thing that happens? Well, maybe
Speaker 1: the show tanks and I don't do shows anymore, and
Speaker 1: I have to go do some other stuff. I do podcasts,
Speaker 1: or I write books or I whatever is that that
Speaker 1: bad is at the end of the world. Still got
Speaker 1: amazing family, still got a job, still get to do
Speaker 1: fun things. Like you just look and oftentimes the things
Speaker 1: you worry about are so silly and trivial, and the
Speaker 1: absolute worst case scenario isn't even that bad. So all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you say, Okay, can I live with
Speaker 1: that outcome? Yeah, I'd be fine. It's not that big
Speaker 1: of a deal. The other thing is the perspective shifting,
Speaker 1: where I just think about something that actually matters. So
Speaker 1: anytime I'm stressed out or worried about something, or if
Speaker 1: I make a dumb mistake, the quickest way I've found
Speaker 1: to snap myself out of it is all right, let's
Speaker 1: say I miss a deer or a wounded deer, or
Speaker 1: I don't kill a deer, I flunk of whatever, And
Speaker 1: that bitter pill is hard to swallow. I'm sitting there
Speaker 1: wallowing in it. If I can remember to just like
Speaker 1: look at a picture of my kids or just call
Speaker 1: the boys like something like that, Right, there's like, man,
Speaker 1: all the other stuff is nothing compared to this. And
Speaker 1: if you can just shift your perspective to to the
Speaker 1: core the very most important things, you realize, Wow, I
Speaker 1: would sacrifice everything else, just as he'll have that, my sons,
Speaker 1: my family. So those two things are little tools that
Speaker 1: have helped me a lot, because I would be so
Speaker 1: susceptible to I am just like my natural personality type.
Speaker 1: I think success. I'm sorry, failure is not an option
Speaker 1: for you. I think, no matter what, you will find
Speaker 1: how to turn some into success. You've been doing this
Speaker 1: for a long time. You have that mentality. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of us here do we. We don't allow
Speaker 1: this idea of failure to be an exit point, because
Speaker 1: that's giving up is a terminal illness, you know. So yes,
Speaker 1: not planning, it will be planned B. If not B,
Speaker 1: we'll find us see adapted, see then D. I think
Speaker 1: you're very good at adapting. And it's there's nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with feeling bad. It's helpful to feel bad. Otherwise how
Speaker 1: do you gauge what feels good? As long as you
Speaker 1: can turn that bad feeling into a problem solving, And
Speaker 1: you're a really good problem solvering, Mark, I mean you too, Clay.
Speaker 1: I think everybody here's the otherwise who wouldn't be here.
Speaker 1: I get a question for you, So you got to
Speaker 1: spend some time with him and his family. You were
Speaker 1: there in person. Is there anything you took away from
Speaker 1: that spending time with him, learning from him that you
Speaker 1: would apply to your own life? Was there like a
Speaker 1: nugget or a lesson that you and I said this
Speaker 1: in less words on the on the podcast, I was
Speaker 1: impacted by by the demeanor of Warner Glenn's humility, and
Speaker 1: I think it partly was my expectation. I've never met
Speaker 1: the man before, western cowboy, dry ground, lion hunter, tough
Speaker 1: guy I expected, and I said this. I expected a
Speaker 1: proud man, not a bad man, not a pride full man,
Speaker 1: but just a guy that just was like I am
Speaker 1: who I am, and and what I saw was a
Speaker 1: humble man. And there were multiple things that happened, even
Speaker 1: off when we weren't recording, that made me think, like
Speaker 1: what I have responded that way one of them. And
Speaker 1: this sounds so small, but sometimes small stuff impact you.
Speaker 1: I asked him what color one of his mules were
Speaker 1: and he said, I'd call it strawberry run. And then
Speaker 1: he said, you're a mule man, what would you call her?
Speaker 1: And I just thought, that's a dumb question. I'm not
Speaker 1: a mule man. You're the mule man. And he was
Speaker 1: genuinely interested in what my interpretation of the color of
Speaker 1: this mule that he'd had on his farm for the
Speaker 1: last fifteen years. And I guess just right where I'm
Speaker 1: at in my life, I was I have worked on
Speaker 1: boldness and confidence as a as a thing, moving out
Speaker 1: of insecurity and fear, movement towards boldness and confidence, which
Speaker 1: if you swing the pendulum too far, you become arrogant
Speaker 1: and think you know it all. Here's this guy that
Speaker 1: should have did have boldness and confidence, but also had
Speaker 1: no problem with me, this young guy who doesn't know
Speaker 1: anything like telling him what color his mule was, that
Speaker 1: his humility impact the way carried himself. He deflected praise
Speaker 1: like I would say, hey, Malpi Borderland's group, you started this,
Speaker 1: you were this main guy, which he was. He totally
Speaker 1: deflected that. And and I see places in my life
Speaker 1: where I'm I'm not wanting to deflect praise. And that's
Speaker 1: the stuff that'll get inside of your heart and screw
Speaker 1: you over because it it you building a case for
Speaker 1: yourself that like I am something special, I mean, I
Speaker 1: am good at that, and and it's it's it's okay
Speaker 1: to be good at stuff, and it's okay to know
Speaker 1: your capacity and have that confidence of you know, I'm
Speaker 1: competent in this. But pride and confidence there's a fine
Speaker 1: line between it and I think, I think we can
Speaker 1: go we can go the wrong way. And what I
Speaker 1: saw in Warner Glenn was great Boltenson confidence, but also
Speaker 1: a deep humility. And again it goes It's one of
Speaker 1: those things that you could say the words that he said,
Speaker 1: and if it was connected back to a guy that really,
Speaker 1: deep in his heart was prideful, it wouldn't have impacted me.
Speaker 1: But I saw a humility inside of him. The real
Speaker 1: question is, Clay, what color did you think that mule was?
Speaker 1: I had no idea, and I told him, I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know, uh it was? He called a straw
Speaker 1: dre and I agreed with him, But I would not
Speaker 1: have Probably somebody more versed in the equine world would
Speaker 1: have been able to it was. It was kind of
Speaker 1: a reddish base color, but a lot of white dappled
Speaker 1: into it. So, yeah, do you have a photo of
Speaker 1: that mule, Yeah you should post it on Instagram and
Speaker 1: asked the world, Well, there's no need to, Warner told
Speaker 1: me it's strawberry rowan man. Well, I'm just curious. It's
Speaker 1: like their blue dress, black dress. Yeah, yeah, maybe people
Speaker 1: see different rays of color. Hey, um, what did you
Speaker 1: guys think of out Warner getting in the fight with
Speaker 1: a border patrol agent. I think that is a amazing
Speaker 1: story and that that happens now that person would never
Speaker 1: see a lot of date again. And and that's kind
Speaker 1: of sad because it was a personal, interpersonal conflict between
Speaker 1: two people who had had history together. And sometimes something
Speaker 1: so simple like that could could just relieve a bunch
Speaker 1: of stress or de escalate in a weird sense, in
Speaker 1: in in a different environment, it could be a disc
Speaker 1: deescalating scenario instead of an escalating one, you know, where
Speaker 1: verbally they could have been assaulting each other, and maybe
Speaker 1: for the type of people they were, it would have
Speaker 1: been much worse. So you're saying like this like solved
Speaker 1: the problem they had. I think it should have been Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, I'm not saying that's said. It
Speaker 1: sounds like they had a relationship that was escalating towards that,
Speaker 1: and I think they were both consenting to that kind
Speaker 1: of relationship. They could have definitely solved it just by
Speaker 1: behaving differently, but neither of them at that time wanted to.
Speaker 1: So that's what I perceived that the details of the
Speaker 1: story were this we we didn't get into the actual
Speaker 1: details of the story. So this is like big open country.
Speaker 1: They use that phrase, but it's true, it's just big
Speaker 1: open country. Well, they have roads through the farm, and
Speaker 1: one of these roads had a gate on it that
Speaker 1: just inhibited vehicular traffic on the road, just so somebody
Speaker 1: that's not supposed to be there could just drive down
Speaker 1: the road. So it wasn't keeping cattle out at what
Speaker 1: wasn't doing anything. Well, Warner goes to his gate and
Speaker 1: he sees that someone has driven around the gate and
Speaker 1: driven on the road, and he sees tire tracks on
Speaker 1: his grass, and out there, grass is a very valued
Speaker 1: commodity for cattle, and so he's like, somebody drove on
Speaker 1: my grass. And he had actually, like some time before,
Speaker 1: had talked to the border patrol because they come on
Speaker 1: his land freely constantly because of where he lives on
Speaker 1: the border, and he had told he had seen so
Speaker 1: two or three much prior, he'd seen tracks. Just driving
Speaker 1: through one of his fields, he sees a Border patrol
Speaker 1: agent and he says, hey, I saw some strange tracks
Speaker 1: in my field. And the guy goes it was me,
Speaker 1: and Warner goes, hey, no problem. Do you mind next
Speaker 1: time trying to stay on the road, and the guy
Speaker 1: this is a different guy than he fought. The guy says,
Speaker 1: no problem, I'm sorry, it was a mistake. Two months later,
Speaker 1: Warner goes to this gate. He sees tracks going around
Speaker 1: the gate, which they had a key to the gate,
Speaker 1: so they could have just unlocked the gate and went
Speaker 1: through it. This new Border patrol agent says, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was me. I drove around the gate. That's how it started.
Speaker 1: And then Warner's like, well, sir, you have a key.
Speaker 1: I have given you permission to come on my land.
Speaker 1: As the cattle rancher, I've asked you not to drive
Speaker 1: on my grass. That's the way I make a living.
Speaker 1: And then the guy spouts off and goes, I can
Speaker 1: do whatever I want. I misunderstood that story. I thought
Speaker 1: it was the same guy. I thought it was a
Speaker 1: conflict that had It's a conflict, was just with the
Speaker 1: agency driving on his land. But so there was a
Speaker 1: couple of guys that were like no, just like absolutely, sir,
Speaker 1: our fault are bad. This guy came in with an
Speaker 1: attitude and was like, I can do whatever I want
Speaker 1: on your land because I'm who I am and I
Speaker 1: wear this uniform. And that's that's what made Warner mad. Okay,
Speaker 1: I miss interest to the story. I retract my statement. Well,
Speaker 1: I think I think it could your statements still made
Speaker 1: sense to me. Well, I just feel like it's it's
Speaker 1: dangerous because what happened is Warner had conflict with organization
Speaker 1: of people, and this man, for whatever reason, triggered that
Speaker 1: nagative energy. I don't think you should be disrespectful when
Speaker 1: he's allowing you it's private land, he's allowing you to
Speaker 1: take access, and he's been so generous to you. I
Speaker 1: think there's there's other ways of doing things, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to hate somebody. I don't think that's a
Speaker 1: very nice thing. I don't think he thought it was
Speaker 1: a nice thing either, but he he could just been
Speaker 1: having a bad day. I struggle a little bit with
Speaker 1: putting it in there because it's it's not like we
Speaker 1: want to like highlight and say someone's a hero for
Speaker 1: beating up a law enforcement guy. That's actually the opposite.
Speaker 1: It's the opposite of everything. It's the opposite of what
Speaker 1: I'm saying about Warner Glenn being a humble man. That
Speaker 1: is the opposite of humility. It's also the opposite of
Speaker 1: just in general. You're not gonna want to do that
Speaker 1: in your life. I don't mean interrupt, but I was
Speaker 1: gonna say what I think showcase. What you're speaking of, though,
Speaker 1: is how he processed what happened and how he spoke
Speaker 1: to you about it afterwards, and the fact that he said,
Speaker 1: you know what, Yeah, I gotta I had to own it.
Speaker 1: I took my I took my lumps. I made a mistake.
Speaker 1: I became better for it. You know knows he shouldn't
Speaker 1: have done it. Now he's hot in the moment. Think
Speaker 1: about all the different options I think, really in your
Speaker 1: life with the people that you know and somebody, let
Speaker 1: me just get okay. Option like, there's different endings for
Speaker 1: this book. The book to this point goes to Warner
Speaker 1: Glenn getting in the fist fight and sure enough, rubbing
Speaker 1: his face in the dirt. Did you like do you
Speaker 1: like how he said that. I thought it was real
Speaker 1: cowboy way to say it. He was just like I
Speaker 1: put his face in the dirt. He's he so Option
Speaker 1: one is he gets in trouble, he defends himself to
Speaker 1: the point of like I was justified in this. I
Speaker 1: don't care what you say, and he becomes bitter the
Speaker 1: rest of his life at the at the Feds, and
Speaker 1: that bitterness would translate into him giving them trouble for
Speaker 1: the next eighty years of his life. He stays up
Speaker 1: at night thinking about ways that he's gonna stick it
Speaker 1: to the Border Patrol. That would be a very likely response.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, some old cowboy out in
Speaker 1: the desert. That is a very real possibility. And then
Speaker 1: maybe there's just two endings. The other ending is the
Speaker 1: guy going, I made a mistake. This guy was you know,
Speaker 1: the guy was in the wrong. Sure in this individual
Speaker 1: little sector. This guy, yeah, I was probably a punk,
Speaker 1: but it was a mistake and he wasn't embittered against
Speaker 1: the Border Patrol. He has a great relationship with the
Speaker 1: Border Patrol. But his ability to bounce back from doing
Speaker 1: something wrong, which that is a human trait that is
Speaker 1: highly is a very valuable trait because everybody's gonna mess
Speaker 1: stuff up so much. Your life is not getting it
Speaker 1: right every time, But how you're gonna respond when you
Speaker 1: do something wrong, because man, bitterness is like the And
Speaker 1: I think that's part of what maybe Warner was insinuating
Speaker 1: talking about when the first thing that came out of
Speaker 1: his mouth when I asked him what's the secret to
Speaker 1: having a good life, he said, don't worry about stuff.
Speaker 1: I think that could be. I think people sometimes become
Speaker 1: embittered or fearful or hurt in some way by real
Speaker 1: negative interactions. But to be able to take that, grow
Speaker 1: from it, learn from it. And then sometimes I think
Speaker 1: in somebody's life, maybe the conclusion that you come to
Speaker 1: isn't always as direct in the person's mind. But in
Speaker 1: the book there's a book written about Warner Glind called
Speaker 1: Warner Glind The Life and Times of an American Cowboy,
Speaker 1: I think is what it is called. The author, Ed Ashurst,
Speaker 1: is the one who made the conclusion that that interaction
Speaker 1: when Warrener was forty seven years old, scripted the next well,
Speaker 1: you know now almost forty years later in his life.
Speaker 1: Because he became very skillful at dealing with people that
Speaker 1: were in opposition to him, which he said he used
Speaker 1: to have a really volatile temper. It was an inflection
Speaker 1: point for him, and I think maybe in Warner's you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you talk to him, you know, it's
Speaker 1: not like he probably was just like I will now
Speaker 1: change and become a great diplomat to the federal government.
Speaker 1: Like but it but it impacted him, and he he
Speaker 1: he became somebody that was very influential in that part
Speaker 1: of the world. And they were known for bringing together
Speaker 1: groups that hated each other and we're at odds with
Speaker 1: each other, bringing them in Manu. Guys like Warner, wherever
Speaker 1: they go, it seems like they bring stabil a the
Speaker 1: in peace just like just just just an ability to
Speaker 1: just like walking through it. Just like Warner, Glenn riding
Speaker 1: up on his you know, banditos carrying drugs across the border.
Speaker 1: Like he didn't get killed, He didn't the situation. You know,
Speaker 1: somebody could have gone to that and blew that situation up,
Speaker 1: pull their gun. What do you guys doing You got drugs? Er,
Speaker 1: I mean you freaked out or something or ran away
Speaker 1: or Warner just rides up on his meal and just
Speaker 1: like hey, you know, a lom. He goes got some drugs. Okay,
Speaker 1: well we're just lying hunting any line tracks ride past.
Speaker 1: It just just to deescalate the situation. So that's what
Speaker 1: he learned to do, which before maybe his his thing
Speaker 1: was to escalate it. It sounds to me like he's
Speaker 1: a really good leader, and it sounds like his daughter
Speaker 1: has acquired those skills from him. Did you get that
Speaker 1: impression when you were around them? Sure, Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: just hearing her talk about her father, or talking about
Speaker 1: the work or the activity s. They just felt like
Speaker 1: she really benefited from his his state of mind and
Speaker 1: it has learned a lot, And I think that's super attractive.
Speaker 1: I imagine he had a lot of miles in the
Speaker 1: saddle to think about and replay that whole experience, like
Speaker 1: with the agent, Like he's you know, when he's out
Speaker 1: riding the range and looking for lions, and I doubt
Speaker 1: he's got headphones on listening to the podcast. He's probably
Speaker 1: just reflecting on his life. Of course, he's obviously right
Speaker 1: now he's saying that, But yeah, I imagine he had
Speaker 1: a lot of alone time to really think about that,
Speaker 1: what impact that had on his life and how that
Speaker 1: could have gone in a lot of different ways, like
Speaker 1: just being able to sit quietly with yourself and reflect
Speaker 1: on that they're probably yeah, helped him come to that conclusion.
Speaker 1: I gotta kick out of how when he told his
Speaker 1: old man about the experience, So I can't do that
Speaker 1: to a law enforcement office. Yeah, yeah, you wonder you
Speaker 1: wonder where, like where that came from. He's like, wait,
Speaker 1: you can't, Like I thought that was I kept that
Speaker 1: in there so much. But I liked it because his
Speaker 1: dad took his side. You know, his dad could have
Speaker 1: been mad at him. Dad could have been like, Warner,
Speaker 1: you're jeopardizing our whole life. You could you know, he
Speaker 1: could have been he could have scolded it, and he
Speaker 1: could have. But his first response was to take the
Speaker 1: side of his son, which that could have gone either
Speaker 1: way too. I mean, it seems natural that you take
Speaker 1: the side of your son, but not necessarily. I thought
Speaker 1: it was his way of explaining to his son that
Speaker 1: it's okay. Yeah, in a very very nice, relaxed manner. Man,
Speaker 1: do you think there's some old retired Border Patrol agents
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, man, like father like son, Like Marvin's
Speaker 1: had a dust up before and he's like, probably not
Speaker 1: to throw shade on Marvin. I doubt that happened. But yeah, well, guys,
Speaker 1: thanks for thanks for being guests on the Burgers podcast.
Speaker 1: This has been good. You guys are like the astronauts
Speaker 1: gone to the moon. Thank you for having us. Thank
Speaker 1: you a million times for not only having us on
Speaker 1: the show, but having a secure family home, taking us
Speaker 1: out to your mountains, showing us the ropes. It's been
Speaker 1: a it's been a treat. Yeah, well, it's been a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. True shout out to Gary and Judy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks as well. Yep, yep. If we'd had a seventh
Speaker 1: Mike or a night Mike, we'd had Judy and Gary
Speaker 1: on here with us. But next time, next time you
Speaker 1: really need to maybe you there to have because I
Speaker 1: haven't got to listen to all the render episodes, but
Speaker 1: the world needs to know about Gary's detail oriented white tail.
Speaker 1: Were you impressed? I was really impressed. Your dad is
Speaker 1: way more white tailed gear savvy than you are. Clay,
Speaker 1: Oh he's he's in it nuanced. Yeah yeah yeah, and say,
Speaker 1: oh man, we've we've now started a whole another segment
Speaker 1: of the podcast. I am the way I am because
Speaker 1: he's the way he is. You went the opposite direction,
Speaker 1: I really did. I will just lay out this illustration.
Speaker 1: This one simple thing told me so much about Clay.
Speaker 1: When we packed up camp to head into go hunting
Speaker 1: the mountains and he had his climbing sticks, they were loose,
Speaker 1: there were ropes everywhere, and he was just shoving individual
Speaker 1: single sticks into the pant hears of the horse. I'm thinking, man,
Speaker 1: is this how you operate? And so yeah, different strokes
Speaker 1: for different folks. And your dad as though, talking about
Speaker 1: how he's drilling his climbing sticks to reduce weight and
Speaker 1: he's using am steel ropes to be as quiet as possible,
Speaker 1: and discussing how he saw a photo of how I
Speaker 1: stacked my sticks on the back of my backpack and
Speaker 1: how envious it made him, and how he wanted to
Speaker 1: find new ways to organize his stack. Hey, yeah, I
Speaker 1: would say this in front of my dad. So this
Speaker 1: this is not like hiding something, but like his The
Speaker 1: way he handled hunting stressed me out as a kid
Speaker 1: because we we had to I mean it's classic father
Speaker 1: son stuff. We had to, you know, try to meet
Speaker 1: his standards for stuff, and it it stressed me out
Speaker 1: and So when I left the coupe, when I went
Speaker 1: to college and started hunting the own, I went into
Speaker 1: a season of life that my hunting was very shortened
Speaker 1: because I had a family and was trying to build
Speaker 1: a career in life. And I had to determine what
Speaker 1: were the limiting fact true limiting factors of my hunting.
Speaker 1: And I cut off a bunch of stuff. And I
Speaker 1: don't tell anybody, but I actually killed way more deer.
Speaker 1: All right, No one gets a rebuttal. Thank you guys,
Speaker 1: very good. Appreciate great week. Keep the wild place as
Speaker 1: wild because that's where the deer go through the saddles.