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Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on a Hey everybody, welcome

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Speaker 1: to episode. Of course. I'm Ben O'Brien and I'm joined

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Speaker 1: by Phil Ty Engineers say hello Phil, Hello Ben. We're

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Speaker 1: feeling it today. Huh yeah, something like that, something like that.

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Speaker 1: Phil seems a little melancholy. He's wearing a mask, getting

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Speaker 1: ready go to Costco. I love that this is uh

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Speaker 1: gonna be a good episode. I think. What Friday, I

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Speaker 1: got to talk to my good friend Wyman Menser and

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Speaker 1: uh shed a little tear during the interview. You may

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Speaker 1: not be able to tell during the podcast, but we

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Speaker 1: start talking about our dads and I got a little

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Speaker 1: for clemped a little you know, just a little something something,

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Speaker 1: and uh a tear, a single tear because my dad,

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Speaker 1: Joe knows. We were out hunting when I found out

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Speaker 1: my dad had a hard act not too long ago.

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Speaker 1: I had four blocked arteries, four stints put in his heart.

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Speaker 1: So that's gnarly gnarly experienced. So we talked about that

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Speaker 1: with Wyman, but also just his life, what he how

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Speaker 1: he thinks about wildlife, and a very interesting point that

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Speaker 1: he makes about regret in terms of trapping and killing

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Speaker 1: predators namely coyotes, bobcats for basically his entire life. So

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Speaker 1: he talked about that coming up, so you stick around

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Speaker 1: for that. Before we get to that, Phil feels nervous,

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Speaker 1: a little bit nervous. It's just the allergy medication. He's

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Speaker 1: been vape penning some some benadryl. That's in the break, Um,

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Speaker 1: But we're gonna talk. I don't think we can do

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Speaker 1: much here without talking about the current riots and the

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Speaker 1: George Floyd case and all those things. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that we can go forward with any I'm

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Speaker 1: about to read some emails and silly things about White

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Speaker 1: Claw and and you know what we do, Phil, This

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Speaker 1: is kind of the thing the show that we do.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to that, I made a post

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Speaker 1: on social media the other day about, uh my buddy

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Speaker 1: Charles Rodney. You guys all know Charles Rabman Rodney, right,

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Speaker 1: Joe Charles Um, just saying that I don't have I

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Speaker 1: don't how many black friends, but I do have Charles Rodney. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I've been lucky enough through Charles to learn a

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Speaker 1: lot of things about my own perspectives on race and

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Speaker 1: essentially people. Just you learn a lot from Charles riding

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Speaker 1: no matter what you do. We learn a lot about

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Speaker 1: rabbit hunting, but also a lot about shared perspective. Him

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Speaker 1: and I share a lot of things in common, and boy,

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Speaker 1: we share a ton of things that aren't in common.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things that as I sat and

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Speaker 1: thought about, um, all that's going on in our country,

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Speaker 1: I definitely felt sad. I watched some I watched the

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Speaker 1: video of George Floyd getting assassinated by the police officer,

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Speaker 1: and I watched a bunch of looters beating in a

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Speaker 1: sent bystandards and shop owners, and I just was very

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Speaker 1: sad and couldn't sleep, didn't know what to do, and

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Speaker 1: so I was thinking about, you know, what's my place?

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Speaker 1: And all this my place seems rather small. This podcast

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Speaker 1: seems rather minutscule in terms of its impact on what's

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Speaker 1: going on. But I will say that we have talked

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Speaker 1: about this, the issue of race in the outdoors before UM.

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Speaker 1: We talked about it at length with Carolyn finnieback in November.

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Speaker 1: We talked about it at length with Steve Ronella uh

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Speaker 1: a month prior to that, and then on episode thirty

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Speaker 1: of the podcast where we first met Charles Rodney heard

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Speaker 1: his story growing up as a poor share carper's son

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Speaker 1: in segregationist Louisiana. And so I will say not this

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Speaker 1: isn't braggadocious at all. It's just to say that we've

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Speaker 1: been thinking about this and talking about this here for

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Speaker 1: a while in terms of how do we be more inclusive,

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Speaker 1: how do we think proactively rather than reactive. I would

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Speaker 1: much rather be proactive to the issues of race in

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Speaker 1: America than reactive. When somebody gets killed and then I

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Speaker 1: get very upset and that becomes my interaction with racial injustice,

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Speaker 1: I'd much rather address it before we're at this inflammatorys

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Speaker 1: tage where we are now. So I thought about having

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Speaker 1: Dr Carolyn Finny back on Jonathan Hall, a writer, a

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Speaker 1: black writer, on to talk about it. But I went

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Speaker 1: back and listened to Hunting While Black and Questioning our

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Speaker 1: cultural Competence with Dr Carolyn Finney, which is episode eighty

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Speaker 1: nine of the show featuring featuring one Phil T Engineer

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Speaker 1: and Miles Nulte, And I felt that that listening to

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Speaker 1: the whole thing again, I was a little bit nervous

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Speaker 1: that we we maybe didn't hit the right notes, or

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Speaker 1: I wish I had covered different things. But I was

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Speaker 1: pretty proud of the result of that podcast. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna go in any diet tribes or have any

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Speaker 1: guests on about what's happened right now. I think if

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Speaker 1: you want to know what I think or what th

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Speaker 1: HC in general thinks, there's a right approach to everything,

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to that one, listen to Dr

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Speaker 1: Carolin Finney, listen to Miles Nulta, and listen to what

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Speaker 1: we had to say back in November, and I think

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Speaker 1: you'll get um all you're gonna get from us. So Phil, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: anything you want to say, everybody you can abstain or

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Speaker 1: just no. Man, it's uh if it fucking sucks. You know,

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Speaker 1: my wife and I tried to talk. I mean not try,

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Speaker 1: we did. We talk to our seven year old, which

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Speaker 1: is like pretty young, but it's like he's getting to

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Speaker 1: that age where you know, uh, just you gotta start

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Speaker 1: exposing him to stuff like this, and it was really

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Speaker 1: hard to because you got to give it context, uh,

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Speaker 1: context of the history of this country even before slavery,

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Speaker 1: Like the ship has just woven into uh, the entire

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Speaker 1: history of this country and our ancestors that came before America,

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Speaker 1: and um, it's very important to be incredibly proud of

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Speaker 1: the things that this country does right and unbe able

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Speaker 1: to understand all this the shitty things this country does

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Speaker 1: and try to improve and uh uh and you know

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Speaker 1: the reactions to everything. Um, I I don't even have

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Speaker 1: a lot to say. I'd like, I'm really glad you

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Speaker 1: brought up the Carolin Finny episode because it's more important

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Speaker 1: for everyone to listen right now to voices like hers.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, uhh, yeah, you know. I did have to

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Speaker 1: address with my three year old for a minute and

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Speaker 1: he just started calling it the bad guy news. When

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Speaker 1: I was when I would like flip on the news

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Speaker 1: and it would be on, he would see it. He

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Speaker 1: was like, is that the bad guy news? Not really?

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a little half and half at this point, um,

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Speaker 1: but just really breaking it down for a three year

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Speaker 1: old is a nice way to give yourself some perspective,

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Speaker 1: like be kind, to be kind to one another, and

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Speaker 1: try to find however you can, however hard it might be,

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Speaker 1: trying to try to find empathy for everyone around you

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Speaker 1: in your in your life and then define what empathy is.

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Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of illogical ship being set

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Speaker 1: out there by a lot of people um, people supporting murder,

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Speaker 1: people supporting violence and rioting, and it's structtion of property.

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Speaker 1: People um trying to take pick up a video of

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Speaker 1: someone beating another human being and then rationalize it away

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Speaker 1: based on some emotion of fear or anger or frustration

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Speaker 1: with our society or some point in it. That's all bullshit.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't listen to any of that. You should find

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Speaker 1: someone that's that's you know, like my friend Joe Rogan

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Speaker 1: or someone like him, who was just expressing shock and

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Speaker 1: awe and the need to be constructive. That's probably a

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Speaker 1: better thing than most of the inflammatory stuff that you'll

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Speaker 1: hear out there. Now. David Goggins had a great video,

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Speaker 1: but actually always does as he always does. So I

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Speaker 1: would seek out those constructive perspectives, seek out those that

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Speaker 1: wish to better themselves and better people around them. And

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Speaker 1: that's really all you can do at this point. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's a confusing time, especially to be on any any media,

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Speaker 1: news media, social media doesn't really matter. It's confusing time

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Speaker 1: to to wade into those waters. I've tried to avoid

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Speaker 1: much of that as I can, but here we are,

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Speaker 1: so I'm I'm incredibly sad and incredibly piste off at

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Speaker 1: everybody that's doing things to harm this country because I

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Speaker 1: love it. Ah. I know a lot of policemen, most

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Speaker 1: of them, all of them that I know, are wonderful

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Speaker 1: people and would do anything to protect their community and

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Speaker 1: the people around them. Um. I will say that we're

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Speaker 1: in the office. There's a lot of people in here,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's walking by the door waving, So it's nice.

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Speaker 1: It feels like we're back Phil. It feels like we're

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Speaker 1: back my back to the windows. I can't see anybody,

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Speaker 1: I feel. I feel real lonely right ka. Everybody's out there,

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Speaker 1: everybody's self. But anyway, it's a sad time. Um, we

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Speaker 1: won't we won't harp one in any further. But I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna be one of those ones that just makes

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Speaker 1: us a hunting podcast and we forget about what's going

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Speaker 1: on the country, especially when it's it's this insane. We're

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Speaker 1: definitely living in um Michael Bay movie some sort of

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Speaker 1: right now waiting for I'm waiting for the comment. I'm

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Speaker 1: waiting for this the astronauts that are gonna come save

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Speaker 1: us from pending doing so. Uh, take a deep breath,

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Speaker 1: everybody taking a deep breath. Breathe out, breathe out, breathe in, Phil,

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Speaker 1: and breathe out. Don't not towards me because don't breathe

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Speaker 1: on then because of social distancing, other people have to

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Speaker 1: use that, and we're gonna move on. So thanks for

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Speaker 1: sitting through that. Appreciate it. We got some stuff to

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Speaker 1: get into before we get to Wyman Menser. Now. We

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Speaker 1: got two weeks of podcast where I think we probably

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Speaker 1: got the most emails ever. Two weeks ago was the

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Speaker 1: tail of one Brett Bond and Glenn Bond, the bear

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Speaker 1: attack that everybody's still talking about. Last week we had

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Speaker 1: Robbie Sansom and Nick Holla. Robbie's from Forcing Nature Meats

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Speaker 1: and Nick is from Impossible Meats Possible Foods as I

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Speaker 1: was corrected, but there's meat there. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: people wrote in with a lot of interesting thoughts. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna start with the the shorter one there was. There

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Speaker 1: was some criticism of how we did this um and

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Speaker 1: I'll explain in a minute, but I'll let Brandon Kendall,

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Speaker 1: who wrote and kind of put his criticism into words.

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Speaker 1: He said, I thought it was just a little underhanded

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Speaker 1: that you had the impossible Foods representative on first, and

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Speaker 1: then you had the representative from Forcination meats on after

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Speaker 1: the fact too, in a sense, critique impossible. If put

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Speaker 1: in a similar situation again, maybe you have the two

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Speaker 1: on simultaneously so they can have a dialogue. I thought

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Speaker 1: that was a bit unfair to impossible foods. Brandon goes

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Speaker 1: on to say that he I love the show, and

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Speaker 1: that's it's a nice little it's a nice criticism one

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Speaker 1: I thought of before we went into it. Filled you

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Speaker 1: listed things, did you feel? Uh, it went through my mind?

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Speaker 1: What to my mind doing? But um, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think I think you gave a good explanation of why

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Speaker 1: you didn't want to have them on simultaneously, because then

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Speaker 1: it would might just turn into kind of like a

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Speaker 1: a polite shouting match or something like that. Listen, I'm

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Speaker 1: not I'm not here to say that I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: completely impartial viewer of the situation. I work for a

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Speaker 1: company called meat Eater. I eat meat. If you follow

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Speaker 1: me on social media, post a lot of the pictures

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Speaker 1: of meat and such, and so for me to then

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Speaker 1: feign some impartial observer at that moment felt a little

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Speaker 1: disingenuous to me. So I am, in a sense accidents

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Speaker 1: as the proxy to what is a debate UM. I've

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Speaker 1: heard other podcasts and on this issue and similar issues surrounding.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like just a tip for tat study for study,

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Speaker 1: data for data, and people just get off into the

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Speaker 1: weeds so quickly that you can't really address some of

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Speaker 1: the larger issues that are there. So I felt if

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Speaker 1: you separated the two you this could hear them out

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Speaker 1: and then you can compare and contrast how many people

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Speaker 1: that wrote and did say they were piste off by

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Speaker 1: the end of Nick's portion and then redeemed from redeemed from.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's I don't think that's a surprised No, No, listen,

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Speaker 1: we we can do this and still recognize who we

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Speaker 1: are and still try to explore things that are kind

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Speaker 1: of outside our realm of of normal thinking. So that's

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to do there. I do I take

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Speaker 1: that critisis him in stride because it's true. I did.

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Speaker 1: I call I actually called UM our buddy Robbie and

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Speaker 1: said you want to listen to it, and he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so okay, and I sent him the the audio, the

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Speaker 1: rough audio of the interview with Nick I'm not. I'm

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Speaker 1: not trying to hide that. I'm all. I'm there, I'm

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Speaker 1: right there with you. Um, it was not fair to

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Speaker 1: Impossible Meats. It was a critique of them, I feel,

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Speaker 1: a very necessary critique of what they're doing, because what

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Speaker 1: they're proposing is pretty radical. So I felt like, from

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Speaker 1: perspective of somebody who eats meat and enjoys it, it

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Speaker 1: is a necessary critique. Um. And so we'll probably continue

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Speaker 1: to do it that way if we get back into

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Speaker 1: that and we feel like there's two two opposing sides. Um.

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Speaker 1: But always open to suggestions. Joe, you got anything there?

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Speaker 1: You want to anything? Do you listen to that episode?

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Speaker 1: I think he did a great job. But it definitely

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Speaker 1: went through my head too that it was a bit

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Speaker 1: unfair towards and Possible Meat Impossible foods. Yeah, but you

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Speaker 1: know too bad. Like you said, you never claimed to

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Speaker 1: be unbiased in the situation. What a welcoming environment people

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Speaker 1: are gonna like, was it unfair? Yes, come on my

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Speaker 1: show and defend your show. It's gonna be unfair. You'll

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Speaker 1: love it. No, But I mean you you've visited Force

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Speaker 1: of Nature Meats. I think they are friends of the show.

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Speaker 1: I don't think going into this anyone was expecting an

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Speaker 1: unbiased look at this, but I and I thought it

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Speaker 1: was a good even though it was in the end

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Speaker 1: of critique of what Impossible is doing. I think having

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Speaker 1: them having one of their representatives actually come on your

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Speaker 1: show and speak to their uh quote unquote benefits and

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Speaker 1: the you know it was would would have been way

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Speaker 1: better than you reading off of their mission statement. And like,

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Speaker 1: I think it was good to have them on and

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Speaker 1: to have them make the point themselves, for sure, and

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Speaker 1: that was a good thing that Yeah, and I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you and Joe probably knows this because we talked about

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Speaker 1: this because he helped me schedule it. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to expect coming out of the Impossible. Coming into

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Speaker 1: the Possible Foods interview with Nick, I had no idea

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Speaker 1: if he was gonna push hard against meat wholeheartedly, if

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Speaker 1: he was going to be unreasonable, if he's gonna pair

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Speaker 1: it some of the more public comments that seemed inflammatories

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Speaker 1: to me. But he didn't do any of that stuff. Um.

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Speaker 1: I definitely went into an open minded just with like

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Speaker 1: some very curious questions, but I also was I've also

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Speaker 1: made a decision in that case to wear my bias

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Speaker 1: on my sleeve and be like, I'm a I am

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Speaker 1: a potential consumer of your product, but I'm a very

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Speaker 1: skeptical um consumer of your ideology. I don't really believe

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Speaker 1: in it. Things got a lot of holes. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: it through. I'll see where we go. You may get

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Speaker 1: you know, may bring me a little bit closer. You

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Speaker 1: may push me a little bit further. And I would say,

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Speaker 1: and thinking about it, he definitely um pushed me the girl.

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Speaker 1: He definitely pushed me a little bit closer to his ideology.

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Speaker 1: And it just it makes more sense than it did

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Speaker 1: go in in And I think if if you were

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Speaker 1: just asked Nick if he thought that was when, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure he would tell you yes, um, whether what came

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Speaker 1: after it? And I will also say as inside I

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Speaker 1: told when we were done, I said, Nick, here's what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. You let me know if if you're

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Speaker 1: not into this, if you think that's this is some

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Speaker 1: sort of trap. I said, I'm gonna send this audio

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Speaker 1: to this person and he's gonna listen to it. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna react to it together because I feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he has a perspective that's important. And Nick was like, fine,

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Speaker 1: sounds good and so at least being open both in

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Speaker 1: mind and in approach. Best I can do for you there, Um,

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Speaker 1: But I appreciate that Brandon and uh I take back

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Speaker 1: the too bad Phil. I could see that upset. I

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Speaker 1: could see you were mad and that I thought it

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Speaker 1: was funny. I just build the product you want. I'm

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Speaker 1: just here to press the buttons. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: lose you. I don't want to lose you too. Rnella

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Speaker 1: somebody like that. Alright, I put it back in Great,

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Speaker 1: he's already lost, man, I don't know what we got.

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Speaker 1: One more, one more Russell Edwards. He says like this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be hard to sum this up, but he

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Speaker 1: opens with good day, Ben, which I'm assuming meansies from Australia.

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Speaker 1: I'd say that's a good assumption. Gonna go there. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for having Robbie Sansom on your podcast after

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Speaker 1: the Impossible Meats, Dude. I listened to the episode over

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Speaker 1: several days and found myself seriously depressed. After listening to

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Speaker 1: the first guest, Sansum made me feel much more hopeful.

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Speaker 1: Now this is as aside as I said, this is

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Speaker 1: kind of what most people were saying, especially to hear

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Speaker 1: that we could actually feed the current population with regenerative

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Speaker 1: agriculture incorporating animals. Well, bug the hell out of me

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Speaker 1: was the impossible meets guy using the word efficiency. This

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Speaker 1: is not a good word to apply to the living world.

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Speaker 1: Think about what it means. When your boss starts talking

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Speaker 1: about efficiency, that means he wants to exploit you even harder.

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Speaker 1: To take a moment to make some points in my head. Uh, thanks, Russell.

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Speaker 1: Efficiency means reducing living beings to resources to be exploited

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Speaker 1: for profit, and then exploiting them to the greatest possible degree.

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Speaker 1: Efficiency as a goal is a exactly what has taken

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Speaker 1: the animal parts of our food system to horrible places.

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Speaker 1: The vegan solutions to eliminate animals has nothing else matters

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Speaker 1: but domestic animals. It's full hearty. But the entire living

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Speaker 1: world matters, as do the non living systems they depend upon.

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Speaker 1: And so he goes on and on and on. At

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Speaker 1: the end here basically I feel like I'm getting your point, Russell.

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Speaker 1: At the end he starts getting a little sci fi. Now,

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Speaker 1: you like you might like this film, you like Star Wars,

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Speaker 1: m this may be something that they did on the

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Speaker 1: Eboch planet. I don't I don't know forest moon of

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Speaker 1: end or was it the forest moon of end Or? Okay?

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Speaker 1: He said, Um. Possibly the next wave to watch out

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Speaker 1: for in coming decades is artificial photosynthesis. That's right, who

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Speaker 1: needs plants? People are working on building panels that produce

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Speaker 1: carbohydrates from atmospheric carbon dioxide, water and sunlight that in

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Speaker 1: turn can be used as a processed food input or

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Speaker 1: a biofuel. Just think about how they will spend that

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Speaker 1: in efficiency terms. Where would that lead one of those

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Speaker 1: on every rooftop and the rest of the world given

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Speaker 1: over to nature. Okay, so then the population expands and

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Speaker 1: there's no rest of the world, just buildings covering everything everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I think this is all crazy talk Google the Cartership scale.

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Speaker 1: Scientists already considered in the nineteen sixties the concept of

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Speaker 1: a civilization that exploits of the energy that strikes its

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Speaker 1: home planet in the form of sunlight. That's just a

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Speaker 1: type one civilization. Can we keep going? We feel like

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Speaker 1: we got it. It It reminds me, It reminds me of

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Speaker 1: this capital of the Galactic Republic, Corrussant. It's a planet,

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Speaker 1: it's entirely a city. Oh yeah, isn't that greenery. It's

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Speaker 1: like a beautiful croissant. What's it called Corussant? I'm hungry

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Speaker 1: now let's leave it with that one. Anyhow much like

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Speaker 1: the planet of Croissant, the card to ship scale, it

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Speaker 1: needs to be brought up here. We couldn't get through

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Speaker 1: this conversation about the cardaship scale. I was thinking that

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Speaker 1: when I was talking to to Nick and then boom,

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Speaker 1: here it is. You know. Um, I don't really have

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Speaker 1: any response to Russell's email other than to say, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad people are thinking about ship No, it's good

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Speaker 1: really thinking about it. Yeah, And Robbie brought up a

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Speaker 1: lot of that uh stuff in the response to Nick,

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Speaker 1: where it's like, okay, so impossible is doing these things too?

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, with only domestic livestock in mind, but what

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Speaker 1: about all these other issues that this planet is having,

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Speaker 1: like regenerative regenerative agriculture is working to solve other things that, um,

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Speaker 1: that have to do with the rest of the you know, environment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean listen, a big part of this. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to get into my theory about robots. Joe's heard

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Speaker 1: this a lot when we go hunting. I got a theory.

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Speaker 1: It's growing theory about robots. I'll break it out at

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Speaker 1: some future episode. And I also know that I promise

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Speaker 1: I would tell an episode about shipping my pants on

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Speaker 1: this on this episode, but we don't have time. We

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Speaker 1: gotta tell it next time, thank God. Like I feels

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Speaker 1: is upset by it that I was gonna tell it,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna tell it next time. Um, But anyway, I

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Speaker 1: think that is like a big part of this conversation.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have, um, the authors of a book called

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Speaker 1: Sacred Cow on and the documentary called Sacred Cow, and

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Speaker 1: you're coming up, and what her name is? Diana and

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Speaker 1: Rob Trian and Rob. We'll go with first name, so

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Speaker 1: we'll learn their last names later, Rob Wolf, Rob Wolf,

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Speaker 1: Diana Rupp like that, And I think that's somebody I

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Speaker 1: used to know. That was one of my teachers, my

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Speaker 1: third grade teacher. I think Rogers. I want to say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Diana Rogers, MKA DOWB Elementary, Diana Rupp ms ms Rupp.

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Speaker 1: I'm hitting the fifteen second skip button right now my

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Speaker 1: head skip, okay, skip, we cut this out anyway back

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Speaker 1: to like this is just gonna be cut out and

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Speaker 1: then when I come back, I say things like, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: this is where the altar where we'd like lay at

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Speaker 1: the altar of technology and progress. You never know where

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Speaker 1: it's gonna take us. And then I eventually in the

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Speaker 1: future episode lay out my robot theory from that one

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Speaker 1: time I took D M T. So that's coming up right,

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Speaker 1: probably episode one thousand. Okay, yeah, okay, is that your

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Speaker 1: email ding or mine? He's yours? Definitely Joe's. So now

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Speaker 1: Joe comes in. I finally muted my email thing. If

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Speaker 1: listeners will remember, now Joe comes in, ripping. I thought

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Speaker 1: my computerscent of the time on mute. So Ben, I

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Speaker 1: miss your email ding, bring it back. I'll bring it back.

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Speaker 1: I hit mute on it. Anyway, this is going way

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Speaker 1: off the rails. I feel, man, it's been. We were

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Speaker 1: back in the studio and it's been. It's been hard

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Speaker 1: to get this together. Phil. We gotta get back. We

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Speaker 1: get our gear, our sea legs back on this. It'll happen.

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Speaker 1: It'll happen. We'll be better next time. But for now,

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Speaker 1: a fantastic conversation with one of the best humans living

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Speaker 1: in the face of the Earth, Wyman Men'ser. Now if

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Speaker 1: you don't know why. I'man He is a legendary Texas photographer,

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Speaker 1: wildlife biologist, teacher, student of the outside and one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite people. So you can go back and listen

408
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Speaker 1: to our previous episodes you want to learn about his story.

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Speaker 1: It is amazing, but I've got a lot of good

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Speaker 1: tidbits come from him. Right now, here's Wyman, Mr Wyman,

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Speaker 1: how are you, sir? I'm good. What's going on in Benjamin, Texas? Well? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Actually the weather is nice and I've been taking my

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Speaker 1: youngest son up flying, teaching, trying to teach him the

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Speaker 1: basics of flying, and just having a good time doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of photography, real estate photography, mostly on ranches

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Speaker 1: around the state. And everything's been going well good. What's uh,

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Speaker 1: what's the quarantine? I imagine if I had to guess

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Speaker 1: the quarantine hadn't effected you any but I'll ask the

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Speaker 1: question anyway, it really had. The only time, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I get involved with having the quarantine is when you

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Speaker 1: go into government building. I went in yesterday and and uh,

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Speaker 1: use a little profanity, tell them how stupid it was.

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Speaker 1: One of those wearing a mask they handed me and

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Speaker 1: then I omped out. I'd expect nothing less from East.

425
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: You're still on real That's why I like you. How's

426
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: how's everybody family? Slenda? Everybody Goody's doing, Slenda is doing

427
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: doing we all the boys are fine, and Rick's doing

428
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: doing good. So so how about your family? Oh we're

429
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: doing good. Yeah, I was telling you. We got chasing

430
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: little kids around, taking my son fishing for the first

431
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: time the last couple of weeks, and he's been he's

432
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,239
Speaker 1: eating up with fishing and eating up with. We had

433
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: a couple of bears got shot by my buddies, is

434
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 1: what we been, butchering bears in the garage. He's very

435
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: interested in that idea. So yeah, he's he's living the

436
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: three year old little boys dream life. He's currently I

437
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: can see him out the window behind me. He's playing

438
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: in a dirt pile with his friends, spraying um with

439
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: a hose. So that's, uh, imagine that's how it should be. Well,

440
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: I you know, I wanted to you haven't it's been

441
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: while since we since you've been on, but since we've

442
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: even talked um, and I will tell you that I

443
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: I still it's probably been one almost almost two years,

444
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: a year and a half at least since we chatted,

445
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 1: And I still get emails every week from people saying

446
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: that you're their favorite guest, your story is their favorite

447
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: story of all the people have been on this show.

448
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: Do you ever have hal well, you mean, we had

449
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: the Eddie film and we've had you know, all the

450
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: people that wanted to kind of immerse themselves in your story.

451
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about that kind of what what

452
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: your life and story has meant to so many people? Yeah,

453
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, just recently on on Instagram, I received a

454
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: note from a young lady up in Alberta, and she

455
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: said that she had just watched the Eddie film and

456
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: had decided that that she was gonna do. She was

457
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: going to live her dream. She said. She said, you know, um,

458
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: what you had mentioned about perseverance, you know, sticking with

459
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: the plan even though receiving so many rejection slips. And

460
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 1: she said, I'm gonna do it, and because of you,

461
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. Yeah. And I wrote her back

462
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 1: and I told her, I said, well, you know, just

463
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: knowing that they affected one person in a in a

464
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: in a positive manner, I said, it's it's all been worthy. Yeah, Yeah,

465
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: it's definitely affected affecting me in the way I live

466
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: my life. But I tell you, you know, even her story,

467
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: there's hundreds of people out there that feel the same way.

468
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: And I'm sure when people here this coming a week

469
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: that you're that you're on, they're gonna be jumping on

470
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: by the thousands just to kind of like rehash you

471
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: know what you're your life's meant. I tell you, And

472
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: it's been cool to me just knowing you and being

473
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: around you that you know, as authentic and real as

474
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: you are, people connect with it. They just really do.

475
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: I monitor you to say that, thank you. Well, we

476
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: should tell some stories now, No last time we told

477
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta millions. I'll let you freelance and

478
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: just kind of tell whatever stories you feel like. But

479
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: from your you say your eaching, are you teaching Pete

480
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: to fly? Yeah? Yeah, Pete bought a challenger to it's

481
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: a light sport and uh and specifically uh just to

482
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: look for for wild cattle or cattle that they that

483
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: they couldn't find in a and I say, when they

484
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: were weaning or branding, and to look at but at

485
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: water gaps, um like say after a big range, because

486
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: most of these country is inaccessible here after a big rain,

487
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: and he's just absolutely fallen in love with it. I

488
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: mean he's he just said that this is the most

489
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: wonderful thing. Yeah, well, how are you going about showing

490
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: him the ropes in terms of what you've done in

491
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: the past. Well, Uh, you know, I got my policy

492
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: license in what nineteen seventy seven, and so of course

493
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: I hadn't flown in four years. So I went and

494
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: got my medical and and everything and uh and uh um.

495
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 1: And then he bought the plane that of Whitewater, Kansas,

496
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: and so a gentleman flew it into Knox City, and

497
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: then I went up in it. And of course I

498
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: had never flown a well it's been since nineteen ninety

499
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: that I floor flew a light sport. Most of them

500
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: my flying has been in uh, post World War Two

501
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: era little tailwheel aircraft, you know, Pacer Ironica, Champ Chief.

502
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: Uh flew by a by wing aerobatic for a while.

503
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: But you know, flying is one of those things like

504
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: riding a bicycle. You know, it doesn't take much practice

505
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: to get back in gear. And so this fella took

506
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: me up in it, and uh, he didn't let me

507
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: take off for land and so he said, okay, you

508
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: got it, and I went, okay, that's great. Uh. Thanks,

509
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: and so he left and went home and uh. And

510
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: so the next day I told Selina, I said, I

511
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: have to I need to get up. I need to

512
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: get up in the air and this thing. I have

513
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: not flown this plane. And so the next day I

514
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: went up and it was rough, the lots of thermals

515
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: and and it was a it was a real trick,

516
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: but I got down. Everything worked out just fine. And

517
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: now things cool and I'm riding Shotgun with Pate, and

518
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: of course I'm gonna he's gonna go over and start

519
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: working with an instructor. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

520
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: get out of the plane until he's with an instructor

521
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: and they check him out. I told him, I said,

522
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: I'll show his ropes and the things that you need

523
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: to be learning. But the instructor is going to be

524
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: your main, your main source. I said that I will

525
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: not get out of this plane and let you go alone,

526
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: even though I know you probably can. You know, you're

527
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 1: just gonna have to go with instructor be checked out.

528
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: Like I was. He's a menser. He he'll figure it. Out.

529
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: He's better not. Did you tell him? You tell him

530
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: a story. He knows the story about your crash, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

531
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: he was just a little bit of guy whenever that

532
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: when that occurred, when I had that engine failure at

533
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: a low altitude, and to take it in, you want

534
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 1: to tell it, tell everybody that story in detail. Know

535
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: we probably before Yeah, I was looking for cattle from

536
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: my brother and um, and so I decided that the

537
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: last year land couldn't be found. So I just banked,

538
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, went into it. I sent into a climb

539
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty ft outitude a g L

540
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: and the engine is quit. That was in a bank,

541
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: climbing bank, and it just quit. And of course my

542
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: old flight instructor was a World War two pilot to

543
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: be twenty four pilot, and he hammered a lot of

544
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: stuff in me about altitude, air speed, and instantly I

545
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: realized that I was in lethal trouble. There was a

546
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 1: potential of you know, of everything going south, and so

547
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: I nosed it over and started picking my spots real quick.

548
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: And uh, and the first first two spots obviously you're

549
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: not gonna land where you came from. And my next

550
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: two spots was a no go because of brush and

551
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: Bible War fences. So I took a hill top and

552
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: uh and so I I took it into rough country

553
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: and and it flipped on me upside down. But I

554
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: jumped out and walked away and look back and said,

555
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: to hell, damn that was that's rough and I walked away.

556
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: Did you go out in the hitchhike after to get home? Yeah,

557
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: I h h I went out to the highway and

558
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: the cowboy picked me up and he said, hey, man,

559
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: do you have a flat? And I said no, I

560
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: just crashed the plane alright, crash landed the plane. And

561
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: he just stared at me and go, you gotta be

562
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: a kid, and I said, no, I need to go home.

563
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: I remember when we were shooting the YETI documentary about

564
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: you that I can't remember the general's name, but he

565
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: just said he grew up with you, and he said,

566
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: my mom just didn't let me hanging around woman. Mike Gibson, Yeah, yeah,

567
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: from the branch, yep. Yeah. That. I think that probably

568
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: that's probably a good example of just why crazy thing.

569
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: I think. I think that a lot of people have

570
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: said that my brother and I were never house broke.

571
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: That's true. Well, a lot of like we've been talking

572
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: lately on this show, a lot about um, like a

573
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: relationship to land, especially because COVID hit and a lot

574
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: of people that aren't in your situation or even mine

575
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: are finding out about supply chains and where their food

576
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: comes from, and and really the fragility of kind of

577
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: our society and what self reliance really is. And I

578
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: feel like you're just the picture of for me at least,

579
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: the picture of somebody that can just do for themselves

580
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: and and doesn't need to stress about many of the

581
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: things some people are worrying about now. So do you

582
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: that all boils back down to your relationship with the

583
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: big empty Um. I've never met a person that has

584
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: such relationship with the land, that has such an intimate

585
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: knowledge of it. I spend so much time on it.

586
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: You thought about that recently? Is is you've watched the

587
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: world kind of get turned around. Yeah, I'm thankful to

588
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: be out here. Uh. The only time that I've really

589
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: kind of stressed out recently is our our main computer,

590
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: my Apple died after nine years, and so we had

591
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: to go into Witchtall Falls and that was that was

592
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: a real experience because you know, they everybody had to

593
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: wear a mask and you go in and let you

594
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: in one at a time, and that that was a drag.

595
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: But you know, once you leave the larger towns and

596
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: get out here in the in the smaller, smaller locations,

597
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: it's not it's really not like. I went to a

598
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: funeral this morning, actually a great side service of a

599
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: guy that I've known all my life basically, and and uh,

600
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: I walked up to a lady there, of course, everybody

601
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: was staying around. I hugged her and she said, aren't

602
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: you afraid of COVID? And I said, hell, no, I'm not,

603
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, so let me hug you and and that

604
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: and everybody at the same way. Now, there were some

605
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: elderly people there then, I'm sure had some had some

606
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: health issues such as the diabetics and that such, uh,

607
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: that type of thing, and they they had masks on.

608
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: But the majority of people, they were just milling around.

609
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: It's it just wasn't an issue. Yeah, yeah, I mean

610
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: I knew, you know, not even talk to you. I

611
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: kind of knew the stance that that you would take,

612
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: just from the way you lived your life prior. Um

613
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: anybody I'm gonna talk to you that's not really too

614
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: you know that understands the situation, but kind of just

615
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: pushing through would be you. Yeah, it's it's just not something.

616
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel sorry for the you know, the

617
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: ones who have been affected by it, but my goodness,

618
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: I mean you start looking at the at the years

619
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: that we've had to go through various strains of flu

620
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: and and um, you know the relative numbers of people

621
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: that were that die that perished from that, and it's yeah,

622
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: I mean I hate to say this, but you know,

623
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: it's it's a political thing. As far as I'm concerned,

624
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: it's just a political move. Yeah. I mean, did you've

625
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: had I mean, you haven't spent you know. For for me,

626
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: I've spent a lot more time with the family, a

627
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 1: lot more time around home. I've got to kind to

628
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: think about priorities and kind of carved out a nice

629
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: life here working from home, doing these kind of podcasts

630
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: from here with the family, and it's been I'm starting

631
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: to get in a nice groove and I'm enjoying it.

632
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: For you, you know, life hasn't changed, Like what's your

633
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, I know you probably you're probably not doing

634
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: much kiot hunting, these days are if any at all. No,

635
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: I mean I did a little bit this winner. Uh,

636
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: this this particularly past year, We've had a tremendous crop

637
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: of broom weeds and you cannot see an animal deer.

638
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: You just see the tops of their backs in their

639
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: heads sticking over. And so it is basically it killed

640
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: this year's calling efforts for sure. Photography wise. I mean

641
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: you just you just couldn't get any photographs. This is

642
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,479
Speaker 1: the first winner in recent memory that I've not taken

643
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: any kyote photographs. Um, I think I might have. I

644
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 1: might have taken a rifle out and shot maybe ten

645
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 1: or fifteen uh, called him through the through the weed

646
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: and got a close shot or a running shot or something.

647
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: But basically I just backed away and just said I'm done,

648
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, for this year, and hope to God and

649
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 1: we don't have broom weeds next year. Are they invasive

650
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: broom wins? Oh yeah, it's terrible. Uh. Most ranchers try

651
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: to spray for it, and uh, but it's pretty expensive.

652
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: And those watching the bottom line that that don't have

653
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: a lot of oil income and uh, you know, expendable

654
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: income coming in that's you know, beyond just the cattle

655
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,760
Speaker 1: which the market now is off. They just can't afford

656
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: to spray, and so and the and their young broom

657
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: weeds are already coming up. Really, oh yeah they did.

658
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: They're you know, they're through four inches tall and it's

659
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: looking bad. Well, if people haven't listened to our first interview,

660
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: I will pause and let people go back and listen. Okay,

661
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: we're back, hopefully listen to live and tell his whole

662
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: life story. Um. But one of the things about your

663
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: story that's interesting, and I've had other people tell me this,

664
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: which is always kind of gone back to your story

665
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: that later in your life, you know these days you

666
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: you got away from hunting as much and you took

667
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: up photography, and there was a big shift in the

668
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: way that you you saw, specifically kayotes, because you spent

669
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: so much time around the bobcasts. I'm sure as well.

670
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: Can you talk through a little bit about where you

671
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: were and where you are in terms of of hunting

672
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: kyotes and other predators. Well, Um, of course I started

673
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: hunting coyotes in nineteen sixty five at the age of fourteen,

674
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: and and I was totally totally I think, uh good

675
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: way to say it. I was eating up with you yeah,

676
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: I didn't go to parties. I didn't I didn't participate

677
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: in any any public functions with my classes. And I

678
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: think all I did was hunted constantly. And uh, my

679
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: goal was to And then this makes seems silly, but

680
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: I had a goal that I said when I was

681
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: a freshman in college, and be the great hunter in

682
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: America and a really loft to go and so uh

683
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: and so uh. But with time, and you know, I

684
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: when I graduated to college in seventy four, Uh, I

685
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: still hadn't gotten enough of it. And so I moved

686
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: out onto a big ranch. I had approximately three hundred

687
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: thousand acres. At that time, there was no public hunting.

688
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: I mean there was no lease hunting. You didn't even

689
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: hear a rifle shot. You didn't hear a shotgun. And

690
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: you would go days and days without seeing anybody with

691
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: a cowboy. And I ran traps and I called coats

692
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: day in, day out for winters. And um, but now

693
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: that's changed. Uh. You your hope, perspective about life and

694
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: appreciation for life, not just your own, but for all

695
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: living creatures. I catched myself walking and I won't step

696
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: on a bug, I mean unless it's you know, it's

697
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: like it's a wasp or something. I do not like wasp.

698
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: I'm being stung enough by them. But say, just a

699
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: bug crawling across the road. My my whole philosophy is, hey, man,

700
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: you got a life, and who am I to step

701
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: on you and and ruin that life? What gold you

702
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: might have had? To bugs gold? But to you it's

703
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: a big one. And and coyotes, I mean, and I

704
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: still enjoy and it's I think it's I enjoy hunting

705
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: number one. I wouldn't even hunt dear if it wasn't

706
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: for the fact I needed venuson. I have no interest

707
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: in killing for horns except to make Kyle calls with them. Um,

708
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: but I'm strictly a meat hunter. And uh as far

709
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: as shooting rabbits and things like that, I will not

710
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: do it. And used to when I was a kid.

711
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: I shot him all the time. It's like, hey, you know,

712
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: there's rabbits are here to feed something, and it's me

713
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: and coyotes. M Mainly, I need to shoot eighteen more

714
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: because at eighteen more I will have shot eighteen hundred

715
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: coats with a rifle. I need to do that all

716
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: in the book, right, all in your famous all, that's

717
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: all my books, and yes, and so I do need

718
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: to do that, and I'll probably start probably sometime in

719
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: the summer, because once fall starts, you have all your

720
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: least people coming in and they just infringe on their

721
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: country and I don't want to do that. And so

722
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: even though summer calling is not fun, and I always

723
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: wait also until the pups are out of the dens

724
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: and can take care of themselves, and I won't I

725
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: won't shoot an adult that might have a pup in

726
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,760
Speaker 1: it then, because again, appreciation for life. Yeah, that's exactly

727
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: what I was just gonna ask you. Do you feel

728
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: like it was required for you to go through what

729
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: you did during your teens and twenties and you know,

730
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: being a trapper for a living to get to where

731
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: you are now, that's kind of a thing that had

732
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: to happen. It had to happen, honey. Growing up on

733
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: a ranch um which my dad was a former known

734
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: for for thirty years. It's twenty seven thousand acres bordered

735
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: on the south by the Bradess River, fantastic hunting country, waterfowl. Quail.

736
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: Didn't have a lot of deer, We had lots of chives,

737
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: and Bobcats, and I just my brother and I both

738
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,479
Speaker 1: took to hunting, you know, like ducks to water, and

739
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: so it was just an important part of growing up. Trapping.

740
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 1: I remember setting steel traps for skunks and possums when

741
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: I was in before I was ten years old, and

742
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 1: so all of this was just a part of growing

743
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: up and that phase of life. As I mentioned in

744
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: uh in the YETI film from A to Z, you know,

745
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: you start out as a kid at a and uh,

746
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: and now I'm at the putty well at the end

747
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: of the alphabet, and I just I feel life is

748
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: really really significant, yeah, for everything. Yeah, I mean you

749
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: don't really you can't really set time out like that

750
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 1: when you're a little kid, you're just kind of looking

751
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: down at your feet, you know, looking what's around. I

752
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: can't really set time out as long as you know

753
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: it will be. But yeah, I've always find that interesting

754
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: that I've I've met other people I'll tell you why

755
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 1: i'man and a lot of them are there too, creative

756
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: like you, that are photographers or whatever, that have had

757
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: that same shifting sensibility later in life. Um, and then

758
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: when you know, when the I'm amazed at the at

759
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 1: the people who don't. I'm I'm perplexed by it because

760
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know you um in my you

761
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 1: know the even when I go out now to to

762
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: to call with a rifle. Not anne percent of my

763
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: stuff is with a camera. But if I happen to

764
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: to take my rifles out to hunt to kill, it

765
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: is a very personal thing. It's not it's not to

766
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: you know, high five a bunch of people. It's not

767
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: to try to prove something. It's between me and that

768
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: coyote or that bobcat. And and it's how can I

769
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: describe this? It's like each calling stand is very personal,

770
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: and I remember it with fondness. Uh from seeing the animal,

771
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: to watch it, uh its actions and its approach, to

772
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: what it took to bring it down, to enter it

773
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: into my into my books, into my journals. All of

774
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 1: that is very personal to me. And it's and it's

775
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: not to win a contest. It's not to say I'm

776
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: the best. It's just me and that that one that

777
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: one experience that I might have. Yeah, yeah, that appreciation

778
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: that you said, it's it's so I've I've seen it

779
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: on a deeper level for myself. You earn it over time,

780
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 1: the more that you struggle with the craft of hunting

781
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: or your ability to do it right, the more you

782
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: kind of have appreciation for everything that goes on because

783
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: I know you're making your own open recalls, you're reloading

784
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: your own ammo, And so do you think of that

785
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: those things as a craft? Essentially? For sure? Making the

786
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: calls of course, reloading ammo. I've I've started that when

787
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: I was fourteen. Also was shooting with thirty thirty, my

788
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: first decent high powered rifle. And uh, and I reload

789
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: now just because it's out of necessity. You know, I

790
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: don't like to go by except for twenty two ram

791
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: fire amo. Uh. But the making of the call is

792
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: a real craft. Yah. I mean it's that's that's uh,

793
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: that's would work and and getting the exact sound that

794
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: you need and that takes a little bit of skill.

795
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: What take take people through that, you know, like what's

796
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: the raw material and then what's the process? Well, Uh,

797
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: I can make it out of various kinds of would

798
00:43:54,080 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: I preferm ski juniper, uh, oh, sage orange? Um. I've

799
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 1: made it out of ebony wood out of South Texas,

800
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: which is really hard wood. But you just take a

801
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: chunk of wood maybe uh four inches long, And a

802
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: lot of times I'll take a mesquite. What's actually the

803
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: best and the most beautiful is a piece of what

804
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: they call the root stock of a mesquite, which is underground.

805
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: And we're talking old mesquites, what they call here bull mesquite.

806
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: And you you might have a ball that's that's bigger

807
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: than a basketball, and you take a chainsaw and you

808
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: slice it like into it looks like kind of a

809
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: roundish pie and probably two inches thick. And then I

810
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: put it on a table saw and I'll slice it

811
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: into bars, and then slice those bars into smaller bars

812
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: the length of a call. And then I go to

813
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: a sander and with my hands, I'll sand it. I'll

814
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: spend it and sand it down to the configuration I

815
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: want it. And then of course you drill your holes.

816
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: And uh that accommodates a read. If you're gonna make

817
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: an enclosed read, or you take a little dreamal tool

818
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: and you saw out the mouthpiece, it's gonna be an

819
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: open read. And with open read calls they're very difficult

820
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: to make. Uh No, two calls sound alike. I've got

821
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: probably thirty eight or forty of my personal calls, and

822
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 1: all of them are open read and none of them

823
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: sound exactly the light alike. And I've got a couple

824
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 1: that sounds kind of but each one has its own sound,

825
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: and I can't make too that that that sounds the same,

826
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: and as much as I've tried, And it depends on

827
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: the type of read material, It depends upon the curvature

828
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: of the mouthpiece, depends upon uh, the opening that the

829
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: air passage away. There's just a lot of factors involved

830
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: in making a call and getting a certain sound that

831
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: you want. Thinner reads make maybe a high pitch sound,

832
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: then a thicker read it's um But then again, uh,

833
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: that also ties in with the with the size of

834
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: the air hole that goes through the mouthpiece. And so

835
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: when I make a call, it's like everything is free Wheeland,

836
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: it's all freelance. Man, it's south, it's out there. Well,

837
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I've seen him work. I don't think

838
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't think you and I have ever sat on

839
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: Ko said where you haven't called one in. I don't

840
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: want to. I don't want to pump it up too much,

841
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure. Yeah, well it's uh, yeah, it's

842
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: a last year okay. The previous winner, which should be

843
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: two thousand and eighteen two as a nineteen was a

844
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: tremendous year for calling. I mean it was tremendous. I

845
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: have my notes here and I don't recall exactly. I

846
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: made two hundred two hundred something stands and called up

847
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: I don't know, a hundred and eighty five coyotes or

848
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: something like that. It was tremendous. Most of my photographed.

849
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: But this year only really good luck I had was

850
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: in South Texas when I I was uh, I had

851
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: a predator calling photo safari on a ranch, a hundred

852
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: fifty thousand nakered ranch, and we called up I don't know,

853
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: probably thirty five codes in a couple of days, and

854
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: the previous year to that, I think we've gotting forty

855
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: eight in a couple of days. And if only, if

856
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: only you would make a book of kis you've called

857
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: in and let go. That's right. I remember, I remember

858
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: the first time I met you over at the Spike

859
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: Box Ranch, right, it was that the ranch we were right,

860
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: We had a group of guys of their carde hunting

861
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 1: and you came over and I remember seeing this book

862
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: and not understanding it. Was a series of books, not

863
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: the one book there seemed to me, and it was

864
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: they were kind of stuffed pages going everywhere, but just

865
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: a big stack of paper. I thought, what could this be?

866
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: And then you started going through each line and the

867
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 1: thumb print, um, the blood thumb print of each of

868
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: each kid you'd killed, who you're with, the weather notes

869
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: about the conditions. I'll never forget that, because I don't.

870
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: It's such a unique you know, I know, you have

871
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: a you know, a background and wildlife biology, but I

872
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: don't think every biologist does that for that long. No,

873
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: they don't. In fact, whenever I sent this information to

874
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who was a statistician, and he

875
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: put he kind of did some statistical analysis on it,

876
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: and he said, I can almost assure you there's no

877
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: data like this anywhere. This is this is one of

878
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: a kind. And he said, it's over seventeen hundred entries.

879
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? They're abouts? Yeah, it's it's

880
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: a bunch. Yeah. Do you ever think about my first

881
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: my first hundred coats when I was a kid. I

882
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 1: all I did was just put an X to the number.

883
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: And then after that I started thinking, well, you know,

884
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: what maybe I actually start taking more thorough notes because

885
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: this is something that could be used someday in the future,

886
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: you know, you know, after long after I'm gone, And

887
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: then several years ago, I decided to start using a

888
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: blood print for possible DNA analysis because, uh, I know,

889
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm pretty sure that biologists today would

890
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: love to have a DNA analysis of the now extinct

891
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: taxas buffalo wolves to figure out if there's any connection

892
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: with them and the other what twelve subspecies of wolves

893
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: in America and in in Canada. Yeah, you're you're so connected.

894
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: You're so connected to the land that way. I mean,

895
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: because only because you've lived on and lived through it. Um.

896
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: And this is just another how many years of of

897
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: where are you making entries in that book? Uh? Since?

898
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:02,919
Speaker 1: Uh well not team see Steve five. I guess, man,

899
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: I'm not give the numbers. I think it's fifty five

900
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: years a long time. I know. My first my first entry,

901
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: my first inch was actually on a piece of folded

902
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: cardboard that I still have, and it has the date

903
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: it has Uh who was with me? The rifles we

904
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: were using, and that I called up a code and

905
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: shot at two forty seven yards running and uh with

906
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: a thirty thirty with a two and a half powersco

907
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: upon it. He's yeah, you're You're Jeremiah Johnson, the big somebody.

908
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: That spot is still whenever I shot it, my friend

909
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: and I piled rocks upon that blood spot. You took

910
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: me there once. Today, I remember that you showed me

911
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: there the one time. I was like just about a

912
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: couple of months ago. I went down there and trimm

913
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: because there was a skunk bush had had grown over it,

914
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 1: and I took chainsaw and trimmed it away so I

915
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: could find it again to show my grandkids. Let me

916
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: ask you, here's the interesting questions part in my head.

917
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: If you ever used the GPS before, Oh yeah, do

918
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: you feel like you have a knowledge of the land

919
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: where you know the branches that you grew up on,

920
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: that you lived on, the pitchfork and some of those

921
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: or you you could just go to these places and

922
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: your knowledge of the landscape even has the changes, is

923
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: so in depth that you could just stroll through and

924
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: you know where you are. Uh. Yes, for the most part. Now,

925
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: some of the some of the more distant spots that

926
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: I had to walk to, you know that might be

927
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: a little difficult because of the brush encroachment of brush

928
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: on some of these areas that it's just it's difficult

929
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: to find. But for the most part, I could I

930
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 1: go back to the same spot. I can go back

931
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: to the same spot we where I set a steel

932
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: tramp and n team saved me forward. Is that, like,

933
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: have you ever talked to Selenda or your kids about

934
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: having some sort of, uh, photographic memory, like some special power.

935
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 1: That memory is not as good as it used to be.

936
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: I think it's still probably pretty good. We'll have to

937
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: get Salinda on. Let me get your wile, your wife

938
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: for a post interview. Your abilities, your memory abilities? Yeah,

939
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean, is there other things you know, like that

940
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,479
Speaker 1: define your hunting life? The book? I feel. I feel

941
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: like your books definitely do. You're the craftsmanship of making

942
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: the calls and the way that you've kind of carved

943
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: that part out, but also your photography, which I would

944
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: imagine is your art. This is the way you express

945
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: your art creativity. Talk about how that's kind of evolved

946
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: over the years. I mean, you started out just trying

947
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 1: to figure it out. Yeah, I think that probably the

948
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: hunting played a big role in in the way that

949
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: I photographed at least the angles that I use in

950
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: appreciation for light. Um. Of course, uh, I began. I

951
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: developed an interest in photography as a child, but didn't

952
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: really get into it until I was in college. Whenever

953
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: I was involved in some research on kyo to behavior

954
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: and of course, of uh, my major professor Dr. Eckert

955
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: Loan me an old Argus C three or something. I

956
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: forgot the name of it, but or the model, but

957
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 1: I took that with me, and that's I kind of like, wow,

958
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: you know, this is cool. Thirty five millimeter. I had

959
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: all the kode chrome. He furnished all the coode of

960
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: chrome I needed, and I started shooting in and um.

961
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 1: Of course, probably because I didn't take any courses in photography,

962
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 1: that was an asset in me establishing a very personal style,

963
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 1: because I know that whenever I was teaching at Texas

964
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: Tech for twelve years in photography, that was something that

965
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: I did with my students is that I explained to them,

966
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,280
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you how you know abc D.

967
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: This this is the basics. You know your focus, you

968
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: know your uh selection of subject matter, your composition is important. Uh,

969
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: the use of light is important. But I'm not going

970
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: to tell you you're the style that you need to have.

971
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: You need to develop your own. And where I think

972
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: that had I taken a course, I know I think

973
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: and by talking to people who took photography in the

974
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: earlier years, the instructors would would try to influence, you know,

975
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: the style of a person. Well, I didn't have that.

976
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: I didn't have that. That someone to spoil that for me.

977
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: I just went out and just start shooting as I

978
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: saw as a hunter, you know, eye level or below.

979
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: Because I set a lot. I made my own. If

980
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in a blind, it was on the ground,

981
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: made out of sticks. I never said in elevating blinds.

982
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: And so I saw at the level the animal was

983
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 1: seeing and and to me, that was exciting. And that's

984
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: what I tried to convey. And that was supported by

985
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: Gary Grettter, uh the art director at Sports of Film

986
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: magazine in one when I was talking to him one

987
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: day on the phone asking him, you know what can

988
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: I do to break into the to the big three

989
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: market and he said, well, he said, show me something different. Also,

990
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: there was an editor to you know, it was it

991
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: was Gary Gretter and James Eisenman, both from Sports of field.

992
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: How I remember those names, I don't know. I was

993
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:44,919
Speaker 1: about there's that photographic memory. They told me, they said,

994
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: we like your eye for light, and we like your

995
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: angle that you shoot from, and so they said, just

996
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: continue that, but select a different subject that's being shot.

997
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,439
Speaker 1: And I started wild turkey because people weren't doing wild

998
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: turkey much. And that's how I broke into the Big three.

999
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: Was I had three A National covers in one month

1000
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 1: with nothing but wild turkeys. But I spent thirty six

1001
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: days NonStop, morning and afternoon photographing wild turkeys. I mean

1002
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: every morning, four o'clock in the morning, I got up,

1003
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: went down on the river, used turkey calls, made blinds

1004
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 1: out of sticks, made up blinds out of gunny sacks,

1005
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,800
Speaker 1: and used a diaphragm turkey call and I photographed turkeys

1006
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: and like it was the thing that was going to

1007
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 1: keep you know, that was gonna save my life. And

1008
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 1: uh and it got me. It broke me into the

1009
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: big markets. And the Big three back then was on field, stream,

1010
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: Sports of field, outdoor life. Yeah, when they were separate. Yeah,

1011
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,320
Speaker 1: I mean that it's an amazing thing. Now. I actually

1012
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: had an email from a young man, he's a college student.

1013
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: The other day and he asked me, what do I

1014
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: do to break into writing and the outdoor industry? Mm hmm.

1015
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: People asked that all the time, but I never it's

1016
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: hard to respond to that. It is you. I hate

1017
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: to say this, but really digitals as a photographer. Digital

1018
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: photography is nothing. I mean, photography today is nothing like

1019
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 1: it used to be. When you live by the rules

1020
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: of Kotal chrome and uh and Fuji chrome, life was

1021
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: different than it is today. You had to be very much.

1022
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: You had to be exceedingly more knowledgeable. It wasn't this

1023
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: chimping and looking and going I oh, I can change

1024
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: this right now. You shot and then you waited a

1025
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: week to see if you had gotten the image, and

1026
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: it just made you well. It was like. It's like

1027
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: when my dad when I was nine years old and

1028
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: he bought me and Steven's fourteen. He gave me two shells.

1029
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 1: Number one is because they were too expensive. Dad couldn't

1030
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: afford him. But he would get in the closet and

1031
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: reach up and get that box where I couldn't reach it,

1032
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: and he had hand me two shells. He said, this

1033
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: is what you got today, And you made him count,

1034
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: and when you shot Kota chrome and Fuji chrome, you

1035
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: tried to make it count. I just went through a

1036
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: bunch of my images that I had shot in the

1037
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: Ukon territory. I just did a bunch of editing. I

1038
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: did not editing, but I got him on photoshop. They

1039
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: just to see what I had taken. And man, uh,

1040
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about tough. I mean almost every day you

1041
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: had overcast, guys, you had rain, you had hailed, you

1042
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: had wind. We were on top of Rose Mountain. I

1043
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: was photographing stone sheep hunt for Sports of Field and

1044
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: we were up there for nine days, camped out two

1045
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: of us, three of us in a two man tent

1046
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: and the other two guys in a two man tent.

1047
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: And I was carrying a three two point eight and

1048
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: a couple of other lenses. And I could have done

1049
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 1: without the three and two point eight. As you well know,

1050
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: being a backpacker. Four pounds this can mean life, you

1051
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: know the difference between life and death. And I had

1052
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: an extra four pounds there. That's a lot of Snickers

1053
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: bars you could put in there. That's a lot of

1054
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 1: That's a lot of Oh Henry's. We were eating the

1055
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: Yukon back then, but but it was tough. But with

1056
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 1: digital I mean, I could have knocked that out so

1057
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: easily and it would have been just just nothing. But

1058
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: I mean the story got published the Yukon Adventure, but

1059
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: it was a lot of hard work. Well, And that's

1060
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: why I actually in that response that I believe that

1061
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: Dan Curtis is the name. I'm sure they'll listen to this,

1062
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: but I just said that. And in in the modern

1063
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: digital age, it's similar with photography that these other crafts.

1064
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: When we write an article, we posted right to the

1065
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: internet and we get immediate feedback. Did it get clicks,

1066
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: did it get engagement? Did it didn't do its job?

1067
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: And I just encouraged him to like back off that

1068
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: for a minute and work on the craft of expressing

1069
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: your thoughts coherently and and and in the way that

1070
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: it is authentic to you. And if you can figure

1071
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: that out first, you'll figure the rest of that stuff out,

1072
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: because it's plug and play. But the craft, you can't

1073
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: go back and relearn that craft. And I know you

1074
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: know it's it sounds to me like those years you

1075
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 1: had to know the craft because you would be a

1076
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: week before you got home from the Yukon before you

1077
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: knew if you did a good job or not, and

1078
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: you sent your images off and it was a week

1079
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: getting them back. Yeah, and so, but you're right. I'll

1080
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: tell you what the ditchal Ads has done for me though,

1081
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: at least on on On, I G and and Facebook.

1082
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: Is uh that I've been very particular about about editing

1083
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: what I write because I've kind of developed a style

1084
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: that I that I post. If it's not a political rank,

1085
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 1: which I'm doing fewer of those because I'm tired of uh.

1086
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: But it's experiences, something about history, uh, something about just

1087
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: the land. Like for instance, this morning when I went

1088
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: on my morning walk, I took my my iPhone and

1089
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: I was photographing Bobcat tracks, Kyo tracks um uh, textures

1090
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 1: in the sand, the way the recent rains have created

1091
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: these textures, um and maybe an Indian artifact or something,

1092
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just something about the habit the habitat,

1093
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, scunt bushees and how the roots are being

1094
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: washed away. And then I'll refer back to the writings

1095
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,439
Speaker 1: of Randolph Marcy in eighteen fifty four when he walked

1096
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 1: across this country and how he defined the land and

1097
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: then the way I view it today, how it's changed

1098
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: probably from when he was here. And so I've gotten

1099
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: to where I really am into the editing portion. And

1100
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: that's a good thing because when I used to write

1101
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: articles for Peterson for the American Hunter back in the eighties,

1102
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: it was all done on a long hand on a

1103
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: yellow pad. I remember one day I wrote two articles

1104
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: for Outdoor Photographer. They wanted two different articles, and I

1105
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 1: wrote them both on a yellow pad, mail them in there.

1106
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: I mailed it in. I well, I typed it out,

1107
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: then typed it out. But but I think that my

1108
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: style has really improved because of Facebook and uh, and

1109
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: I g Instagram. Yeah, because I'm really I'm really, I'm

1110
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 1: really and I hate to say this, but I really

1111
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: watch what articles or what I say articles they go

1112
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,560
Speaker 1: to bed within a you know, a reasonable a link,

1113
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 1: but what really touches people. And and I wanted to

1114
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: be very positive. I always wanted to be positive, something

1115
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: that they can you know, be uh, they can think

1116
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 1: back on and and maybe this is you know, how

1117
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: it affected them in their lives, if they were if

1118
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 1: my story was something they could relate to. Yeah, well

1119
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're on Instagram. It's been a pretty new thing,

1120
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: right getting on there. It's really I think, what every

1121
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: worry I'm I love it. Man. When I saw you

1122
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: rolling there, I was like, that's gonna change it, That's

1123
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: gonna make it better right away. Well, yeah, I think

1124
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: what you're saying rings true in a lot of ways,

1125
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 1: and but it's also a bit of a trap for

1126
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: me personally when you kind of know you know that,

1127
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: I know if I put a certain type of image up,

1128
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a reaction, right if I put up

1129
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: an image of beautifully bloody backstrap, just seared and beautiful

1130
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: and I'm about to eat it. I know people love that.

1131
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: I know people love a grip and Graham with a

1132
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 1: dead animal. I know there's certain just certain things I

1133
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: know from the experience of being on there, and I

1134
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: try not to train myself to chase that. But at

1135
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: the same time, you want to kind of have a

1136
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: relationship with the people that are reading and seeing your stuff.

1137
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: So it's I find that creatively, I find that just

1138
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: a tough thing to measure. Well, I tell you, I

1139
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 1: try with mine is too cut A cut a swath

1140
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 1: across a wide a section of viewers from both the

1141
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: other side who don't want hunt, who appreciate just photography,

1142
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: and then I had just enough to bring in the

1143
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: people who like the hunting as well, and so I'm

1144
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: just kind of ducking in and out, you know, just

1145
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, I want I want to

1146
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: hit everybody. I want to hit everybody. Yeah, So I don't,

1147
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't post anything that I've

1148
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: killed because, uh, to be totally honest with you and

1149
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: be rather blunt, I've killed him, I've killed plenty, and

1150
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,919
Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't like to show a dead

1151
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,479
Speaker 1: animal anymore. You know, I don't even like to really

1152
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 1: even look at the pictures that that I've taken myself

1153
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 1: with dead animals. I know that they may might seem

1154
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: an extreme uh through the other side of the fence

1155
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: to go. But I appreciate hunting and um, but it's

1156
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: almost like I try to approach for more spiritual you know,

1157
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:05,480
Speaker 1: a realm. Yeah. No, I've I've gone that way, I

1158
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: guess earlier in life than you than you did. But

1159
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: I still I still find that there is a struggle

1160
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: that you gotta that that life and death struggle you

1161
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of gotta wear it on your sleeve if you're

1162
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 1: being honest with yourself, you know at some level. That's

1163
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: that to me, at least the healthiest way to approach it, Like,

1164
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: I know, this is a life and death for that animal,

1165
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: and I gotta kind of wear that, And if I

1166
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: don't wear it feels like I'm just kind of brushing

1167
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: it off. So I don't have to do this. True.

1168
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: It's it's it's true, you know, and I'll and I'll

1169
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: admit I mean, uh my big deal. Now, if I'm gonna,

1170
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: if I really need to kill something, I'm gonna go

1171
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 1: out and kill a grackle, a boat tailed grackle, because

1172
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: they are totally a useless creature. They destroyed those nest

1173
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: And what was it about five years ago? I kill

1174
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: one thousand, four hundred and seventy one grackles with two

1175
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: and whether record there and record those in a book?

1176
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: No I did. I did record the final number. Yeah.

1177
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's always been, you know, the way

1178
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: you're able to articulate kind of your journey, that's always

1179
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: been the most interesting part of it for me, and

1180
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: I think other people too, that you're you're able to

1181
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 1: now sit and say, you know, I'm a thirty or

1182
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: four year old man. Am I looking in the future?

1183
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: Is there gonna be a time where I look back

1184
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: and have regret about some of the killing I've done?

1185
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: I know you talk, You tell a wonderful story about

1186
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: a certain coyote and a certain trap that you remember. Um,

1187
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: I'd love to love to hear that, because I think

1188
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: it is always a so so raw to me when

1189
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: I when I hear you tell it. Yeah, that's uh.

1190
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: I can I find myself revisiting that day And that

1191
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: was a nine team said before and uh, and it

1192
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: still brings back emotion. And there has been counting traps

1193
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: and rifles, you know, there's been thousands of cops since then.

1194
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 1: But that particular moment, he just I don't know, I

1195
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: did something to me. It was a young coy and

1196
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: and it didn't jump at me, It didn't try to

1197
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: bite me, you know, I didn't try to to to

1198
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 1: lunge like a big male will do sometime. And then

1199
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: when I shot it, it just it was almost like

1200
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: in his face it looked at me and when why

1201
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: do you do that? And then it just rolled over

1202
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: and I sat down and cried. I sat down and

1203
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: whip because of it and wondered, what in the hell

1204
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: would I am I doing? But I've chosen that lifestyle

1205
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: for that winner to do that every day. And so

1206
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 1: I continued skinned e when I sold him. But it's

1207
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: that's boy. I'm telling you that to this day, I

1208
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: still feel that emotion. And then there was another card,

1209
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: right that you gained some respect for that kind of

1210
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: turn it's world and and didn't give up. Right, the

1211
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 1: one that I caught in a trap. Yeah, I still remember.

1212
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: It was j two pasture on the on the this

1213
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 1: big ranch and and uh, I still I can still remember.

1214
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: It was a cloudy, overcast, rainy day. I believe it's

1215
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:21,759
Speaker 1: in probably December. And I remember I had a Canon

1216
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: TL with a fifty millimeter lens that that was. That

1217
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: was all I had with me that particular day in

1218
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: a cold of chrone six four and it was a

1219
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 1: big male and uh and that kind that kind I

1220
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: mean he he just looked at me and said, just

1221
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: bring it on. And I thought to myself, you know,

1222
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 1: here I am, I'm fixing. I'm fixing to despatch you,

1223
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: skin you and sell you, and you're gonna be one

1224
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 1: of many. And I'll forget which hide was yours, which

1225
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: fur was yours. But you have You've made a you know,

1226
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: you've made an impression to me today because you know

1227
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:02,759
Speaker 1: that this is the end. You're Caughton in the number

1228
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: four new House trap. You're not getting away, and I'm

1229
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: standing here with a twenty two pistol and I mean,

1230
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: he just in his eyes it was like bringing on

1231
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 1: and I'm ready and they've just gotten that. I have

1232
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 1: that photograph and it was published in Texas Monthly as

1233
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: one of their great photographs that was taken in the

1234
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:24,719
Speaker 1: They published in twenty five years of Texas Monthly. Yeah,

1235
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: when I think of your images, I think of that

1236
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: one particularly because I know the story too, and I

1237
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 1: remember seeing it and it is that like I'm going

1238
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: down swinging, look on that kid's face, and I know

1239
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 1: and I'm sure this, I'm sure this is true. And

1240
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:40,400
Speaker 1: you would agree that the amount of time that you

1241
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 1: spent taking up close photos of these cords learning because

1242
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: when you call it, I did to kill it, call

1243
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 1: it in, you kill it, and the interaction is more transactional.

1244
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,439
Speaker 1: When you called in to take the photographs, you're you're

1245
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 1: kind of capturing it's it's essence, it's emotions what it's doing,

1246
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: what it's motivations are, right, And I'm sure that's a

1247
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: of the years. Yeah, over the years, you've kind of

1248
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: come to to know these animals in that way. Yeah,

1249
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: when do you when you call him in the photograph

1250
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 1: from you're looking for those expressions and it's it's so

1251
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 1: sometimes I find it amusing. Like for instance, uh, okay

1252
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,599
Speaker 1: called up a year or so back, and it came

1253
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: around the cedar bush. I thought it was coming in

1254
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:27,440
Speaker 1: and coming down when and it came around the bush

1255
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: with the intention I mean he came, it came around

1256
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 1: ready to fight. It's one of those rare ones because

1257
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: most of them come in kind of like oh god,

1258
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if I had to do

1259
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: this or not. This guy came in to whoop somebody's ass, okay,

1260
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,600
Speaker 1: And and the wind was in my favor and is

1261
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 1: it trotted buying me so close that I had to

1262
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 1: pull back with my one four hundred to like one

1263
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: hundred millimeters. It was boat up, tail was bushed out,

1264
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 1: hackles raised, its head was low, its ears were down,

1265
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 1: had a slight grim sown his face like you know,

1266
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: I'm fixing to kick your butt. And then all of

1267
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: a sudden that you can see the expression and its

1268
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: eyes changed and it was like, oh shits, I mean

1269
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: I screwed up. And that cowd last time I saw

1270
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: him was like four yards and there was nothing but

1271
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: a cloud of dust with this with this great street

1272
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: in front of it, running through the big empty I've

1273
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:33,680
Speaker 1: had a lot recently. We've talked to vegans on the

1274
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,679
Speaker 1: show a little bit, animal rights folks, people that think

1275
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: differently than you and I in terms of this. But

1276
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: I feel like the you know, what you've developed through

1277
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 1: your life kind of has a is a weird mix

1278
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: of you know, because when you have an animal rights person,

1279
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:52,839
Speaker 1: they really are thinking about the animal, that single animal,

1280
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: its emotions, what it what it wants to do, it's family.

1281
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: They're really personifying or anthropomorphizing those animals. Um And I've

1282
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: always you know, and now that you're kind of describing that,

1283
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: there's some elements of of where you are today, right

1284
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: like what you have done and where you feel that

1285
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: there's some emotional connection to these animals. There is, um.

1286
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: You know, It's like I I did research pray for

1287
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: one time when I was at Tech, and uh it

1288
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 1: was on wolves, the gray wolf, and uh, and it

1289
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 1: talked about the family, you know, family units and the

1290
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: uh what would you call it, the alpha and the beta.

1291
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 1: You know that that hierarchical system within the pack. Of

1292
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: course kyles don't have that, but when you work with

1293
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: them as much as I have, they're an extremely intelligent

1294
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: animal and and they interact with one of I've watched

1295
01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: them coming in in groups, especially in the mating season,

1296
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 1: and how they react and they play, and you start realizing,

1297
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,639
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, they you know, they know each other

1298
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: and they're not just some animal out there that's that's

1299
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:17,799
Speaker 1: has no soul. Basically, you know, they they recognize one another.

1300
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 1: They interact through vocalization with one another, through scent, you

1301
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: know oldfactory uh means and uh and you you start

1302
01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: of flight. Uh. Think of them as you know, as

1303
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: really a living being. It's not something you shoot and

1304
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,600
Speaker 1: just throw away. And that's one of the reasons that

1305
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 1: I take all these notes. I don't want to each

1306
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: each one that I've that I've harvested. I don't want

1307
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,719
Speaker 1: to be to be shot in vain whether someone uses

1308
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 1: them after I'm long gone, uh, you know, the next

1309
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, two generations down in my notes or if

1310
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: they're still around and people can look at them. They

1311
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: perhaps learned something, uh where, something that might change people's

1312
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: attitude towards predators. See that's it. By in the seventies,

1313
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,759
Speaker 1: in the sixties, fifties, and start out in the fifties.

1314
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 1: I still remember the fifties and sixties whenever you know,

1315
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 1: the poisons were being used, the ten eight, the strict

1316
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 1: nine folium, the bad stuff, the really rough stuff. And

1317
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: to all, almost all landowners, it was like, couds are

1318
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: bad because they look bad. They look like a wolf.

1319
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 1: And in the early twentieth century, wolves were basically deemed

1320
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: Satan's you know, they were like Lucifer. They were here

1321
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: for one reason that was to kill cattle. And I

1322
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 1: think that was that was probably transferred over to kyles

1323
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: because they look like a small wolf. And and I

1324
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: started this. I started having this attitude in the seventies

1325
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 1: whenever I would talk to ranchers and that they blame

1326
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 1: everything on said, well, you know that's not true. You know,

1327
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 1: I know because I was raised on the ranch. I

1328
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 1: know that, Yeah, you've got calves out here, and I

1329
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 1: know some of them die, but you don't know what

1330
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: kill that kiss, So don't blame everything on coyotes, and

1331
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: so I was kind of a champion, you know, a

1332
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: guy who championed coyotes even when I was killing so

1333
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: many of them. And so now I've become even more

1334
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: that that way. And I hope that through these notes

1335
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: that I've taken and the research that I conducted while

1336
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:40,799
Speaker 1: I was I was that Texas teg Well someday even

1337
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: further influence that attitude toward predators. I think it's changing. Yeah,

1338
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: And and people are realizing, hey, coats aren't the demons.

1339
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,759
Speaker 1: They are not the demons that that so many people

1340
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: have have made them out to be. I mean, I

1341
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: I think I like hunting coats. I mean not as

1342
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 1: much as you to most of the cameras we've already

1343
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 1: already talked. But I will continue every once a while

1344
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: to shoot a kyae with a rifle because I like

1345
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:12,080
Speaker 1: to shoot. I like to I've told my wife and

1346
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 1: other people, they say, why do you still you know,

1347
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 1: hunt kayas occasionally because it was so much a part

1348
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: of my being and growing up and and I and

1349
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: it may seem funny, but I like to know I

1350
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: still have it. It's like some men like to chase women,

1351
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: not me to see if I still got it. I

1352
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:39,640
Speaker 1: like to chase kay once while with a rifle. I

1353
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: can still shoot at two d and fifty yards. I

1354
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: can still roll a coat and a hundred yards that

1355
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: it did run. I can still snap shoot as a

1356
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:52,040
Speaker 1: cow passed between two two bushes and nail him just

1357
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 1: as he appears, right before he disappears. A snapshot, and

1358
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:58,679
Speaker 1: then I congratulate myself. I go down and I take

1359
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 1: my notes, I take that blood thumb print, and I

1360
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: go home and I'm happy not to shoot another kite

1361
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: for weeks, if not months. Yeah. I mean you you

1362
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: came up in a time where it was you know this,

1363
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: these things were really getting going. I mean you're looking

1364
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: at the nineteen fifties when pelts were you can get

1365
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 1: up to twenty bucks bucks for well, you know, in

1366
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: the in the seventies, that's when it started. When I

1367
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 1: was a junior at Texas Tech nineteen seventy three, I

1368
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,560
Speaker 1: had no idea that you could make money with with coyotes.

1369
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 1: And one of my professors, Jared Flinders, who's back in Utah,

1370
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:42,479
Speaker 1: his home state. Uh, I went out one weekend and

1371
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 1: uh just camped out and I shot thirteen Kyo was

1372
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: at weekend and I was looking at the picture the

1373
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 1: other day. I had a tent. I not a tended.

1374
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: I had a piece of tarp stretched over an alert

1375
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 1: rope tied to a fence post, and a shovel and

1376
01:17:57,320 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 1: that was my tent for the weekend. And I had

1377
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: all these coyotails hanging up and I showed that professor

1378
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, man, you ought to be skinning

1379
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: these things. And I said, well, I didn't know this

1380
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: bring anything. He said, let me get Let me get

1381
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 1: ahold of a fur buyer in Utah, big Sandy Utah

1382
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 1: or a sandy Utah. And he said, yeah, I said,

1383
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 1: sent to this guy. So I called him and he said, well,

1384
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: I've never bought from Texas. I don't know what they're bringing.

1385
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: And so I sent this one skinny coad that that

1386
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,600
Speaker 1: I had uh taken the pelt from and send it

1387
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:27,799
Speaker 1: to him. And I got a check for fifteen bucks

1388
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:32,719
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three. Fifteen bucks was something. It meant

1389
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 1: that I could now go home on weekends. Instead of

1390
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 1: ride a horse and work cattle all weekend, I could

1391
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:43,719
Speaker 1: hunt all weekend. And so that's that's whenever I started

1392
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:48,880
Speaker 1: actually selling pelts was nothing sent me three, because I mean,

1393
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:53,560
Speaker 1: you're coming off of decades where the coyote was vilified,

1394
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 1: and you talk about the pioneering the West, I mean

1395
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:01,200
Speaker 1: the early eighteenth century when Lewis and Clark first encountered them,

1396
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: all the way till when they've become this like there's

1397
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:08,439
Speaker 1: a war of extermination against them in the decades after that.

1398
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: And then now I think with I don't know if

1399
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 1: you've read Dan flores book Kyoti America, it's a he's

1400
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 1: been on here and now you like with guys like him,

1401
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: and you're even the way you speak of people are

1402
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 1: starting to understand them a little bit more because as

1403
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 1: prolific as they are, is amazing and an adaptable animal

1404
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 1: they are, I understand, you know, their ecosystem service that

1405
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 1: they provide. I certainly don't down people for hunting them,

1406
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:37,000
Speaker 1: but I think if you're gonna hunt them, you need

1407
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 1: to understand them and what they do. They're not just

1408
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: they don't just kill every fond that drops they I mean,

1409
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,160
Speaker 1: there there's so many things that we have to get over,

1410
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, as as as a society about the cat, well,

1411
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:51,479
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something that a lot of people don't understand,

1412
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: is uh is Dale Rawlins. Dr. Dale Rawlins, who's premier

1413
01:19:56,200 --> 01:20:02,599
Speaker 1: research individual on on coil populations, and his work has

1414
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: proven the scientific research guys working on their masters and

1415
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: PhDs and such that where you have kyoats, you have

1416
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 1: the best quail populations because kyotes are predators on raccoons, skunks,

1417
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: and opossums, those creatures who prey on nesting birds, and

1418
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 1: so Dr Rollins is uh conclusion is, Hey, if you

1419
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 1: want a really good quail population, you better leave the

1420
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 1: kyotes alone to some extent. Don't go out and try

1421
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:39,720
Speaker 1: to shoot every one of you, see, because they're doing

1422
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 1: some good out there. Because let me tell you something

1423
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: with with people, especially in Texas now that I'm probably

1424
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:52,639
Speaker 1: gonna raise some iron here, but it seems like nobody

1425
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 1: textas no other hunt deer anymore except from a blind

1426
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: offer corn feedure. I'm proud to say I've never done that.

1427
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:08,160
Speaker 1: And corn feeders create a a superficial population density increase

1428
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 1: in so high in raccoons that had it. If it

1429
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 1: weren't for the the feeders, and then in the amount

1430
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 1: of corn is being favored, we wouldn't have this many

1431
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,519
Speaker 1: raccoons Yeah, and so these dudes are out there really

1432
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,559
Speaker 1: racking up a toad, you know, racking up some numbers

1433
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: on on on nesting birds, and kyles go after these dudes. Yeah,

1434
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: and skunked as well. Yeah. And I remember in other

1435
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,640
Speaker 1: conversations that we've had on this podcast, you start to realize,

1436
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 1: because how how quickly kylets have spread across this country.

1437
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,480
Speaker 1: I mean, they live in swamp, live in every ecosystem

1438
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,400
Speaker 1: you can think of. They live in swamps, they live

1439
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: in the planes, they live in the big empty they

1440
01:21:48,920 --> 01:21:51,599
Speaker 1: live in the brush country of Texas, they live in Mexico,

1441
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:56,679
Speaker 1: they live California. They thrive there. And thinking about how,

1442
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, our human attempt to kind of wipe out

1443
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 1: predators from from these food chains, the kyote is kind

1444
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,759
Speaker 1: of like a spasmodic way from nature to be like, oh,

1445
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna kill all the wolves here, We'll put these back,

1446
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,839
Speaker 1: We'll put these here. You're gonna eliminate this part of

1447
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 1: of the ecosystem. Well, here comes the kaio just taken over.

1448
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:18,600
Speaker 1: And I've seen that. I'm I'm a young man, but

1449
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 1: I've seen that in my lifetime. You know, when I

1450
01:22:20,439 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: was a kid in Maryland, we didn't have coyotes, but

1451
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,559
Speaker 1: now we do. UM and you'll see more than you see.

1452
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 1: They're very adaptable, very adaptable animals. I mean whenever you

1453
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:35,000
Speaker 1: whenever you have basically a war waged since the extra

1454
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:39,639
Speaker 1: pation of the wolf, a virtual war for aerial gunning

1455
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 1: to you know, early days of stryct night and and

1456
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: ten eight and thalium and sodium syanide which they still

1457
01:22:47,200 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 1: apply that UM and they were able to you know,

1458
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: to spread throughout the country. I mean, that says a

1459
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: lot of farmers. An adaptable creature. Yeah, I think I

1460
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: want always get these numbers around, but it's like six

1461
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 1: point five million of them were essentially terminated from middies

1462
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 1: have been nineteen fifties. Close to seven millions. I don't

1463
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:08,840
Speaker 1: doubt it. I don't know the number, but it's it's

1464
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 1: a bunch. So it's an amazing story. And like that,

1465
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 1: you know, it's amazing that it's it's kind of tracked

1466
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 1: your life and in so many ways do you think

1467
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 1: about why you why you chose coyoats or why predators?

1468
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:25,760
Speaker 1: It's so weird. Yeah, I've had people ask me that

1469
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: and I don't know why. But coats fascinated me from

1470
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 1: a child, Uh, lying in bed at night on the

1471
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,600
Speaker 1: ranch back in the late fifties and early sixties. We

1472
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 1: didn't have air conditioning and the windows would be open

1473
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 1: at night, and of course we lived like a mile

1474
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,599
Speaker 1: from the Bradness River upon a hilltop and we would

1475
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,600
Speaker 1: always get a breeze. And I remember lying on the

1476
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:54,839
Speaker 1: bed and the breeze and night breeze blowing the curtains

1477
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: across my legs, and then you'd hear the coyote start howling,

1478
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,640
Speaker 1: and that would is totally fascinating me. And I mean

1479
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 1: I would go out and look for their tracks, and

1480
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: of course that they hit up my dad's chickens, and

1481
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:12,280
Speaker 1: and that was a that was a sort of a

1482
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: connection that we had with them also and U and

1483
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:20,360
Speaker 1: then whenever I shot that first kyo, and it was like, wow, man,

1484
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: I'm hooked forever. I mean, it's I'm just just have

1485
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 1: this insatiable desire to learn as much as I could

1486
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: about Yeah, because I've always I mean from what you've

1487
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: done in your life, from photography to hunting to trapping

1488
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: to you know, building out an old jail house to

1489
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 1: live in with your family. You and Rick I don't

1490
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 1: even know how you and Rick built that dug out

1491
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: in the heat of the Texas was like the summer

1492
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 1: of Texas. You dug out the side of a hill.

1493
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how you do what you do, but

1494
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 1: I mean you're kind of taking taking everything to the

1495
01:24:55,880 --> 01:25:00,080
Speaker 1: inst degree. Right told Rick recently, I said, listen, this

1496
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,880
Speaker 1: dugout is fantastic. I love it. You know, we were

1497
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: down there, like I was down there yesterday. We planted

1498
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of buffalo soats buffalo grass on top to

1499
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:14,240
Speaker 1: try to minimize some of the water erosion. And and

1500
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not gonna do anymore. You know, I'm tired.

1501
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 1: I mean, this was an endeavor that that still baffles

1502
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: me because it was in the summer of two thousand

1503
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:27,479
Speaker 1: and fifteen and in two thousand sixteens whenever I had

1504
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: a stint. Yeah, and I asked the cardiologists, it was

1505
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 1: a ninety percent blockage in my left left a order

1506
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: and artery. And I'm not I'm not a heart surgeon.

1507
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,599
Speaker 1: I don't know which one's a r or artery. But anyway,

1508
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,719
Speaker 1: I had compared to a naty, compared to a natomy attack.

1509
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 1: But I forgot all that stuff. But anyway, he said,

1510
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,519
Speaker 1: I said, why didn't I go down? Because there were

1511
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:55,840
Speaker 1: days that we were cutting down trees at weighed a

1512
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty two hundred pounds and carrying those things

1513
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: and a hundred of great weather to the pickup, loading

1514
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 1: him in a trader, these fifteen twenty ft long trees.

1515
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Why didn't I drop? And he said, probably that's what

1516
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:13,680
Speaker 1: saved your life, because when you were jogging that day

1517
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 1: down that creek with your with your boots on, and

1518
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: and I was really pushing it hard, and I felt

1519
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: that little tinge it's that little ton of a an

1520
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 1: electrical shock in the middle of my chest, and I

1521
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:29,200
Speaker 1: want something to not right. And then I went to

1522
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:33,720
Speaker 1: the cardiologists and and they did the ct calcium stick

1523
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:35,920
Speaker 1: skin and he told me, said, you got blocking somewhere.

1524
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 1: And when he said not, when they went in and

1525
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: did the angiogram and uh, it was blocked each And

1526
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: I said, well, you know, why didn't I go down?

1527
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: And he said that dugout work, that stress, that hard

1528
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,719
Speaker 1: work that you've been used to probably saved your life.

1529
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 1: So that dug out a special meaning to me. Yeah,

1530
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember I was living in Texas, and

1531
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:59,800
Speaker 1: that visited you guys when it was mostly done. Yeah,

1532
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,439
Speaker 1: I walked in there. And I walked in there and

1533
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: I thought, well, you know Rick and Wyman there, you know,

1534
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: no spring chickens. He's you got. You know you're in

1535
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 1: your sixties then, right, weren't you. I was a sixty

1536
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 1: five yeah, five years old to do that. I'm thirty four,

1537
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 1: and I'd be if I had to look at that job,

1538
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 1: I'd run. I'd run screaming from it. I'm just telling you,

1539
01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 1: I remember. Yeah, It's it's just a way. It's you know,

1540
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 1: like like flying my drone one day and I flew

1541
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 1: over the jail house and uh and looked down at

1542
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:41,679
Speaker 1: it at the patio that I built. And it took

1543
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 1: twelve years, uh to to build that patio. And I

1544
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 1: couldn't afford to hire anybody to help me, so basically

1545
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 1: I did it myself. And then my boys were old

1546
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,679
Speaker 1: enough at the time sometime they would work the Bobcat

1547
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 1: loader and help me load rocks. But you know, we're

1548
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:02,960
Speaker 1: talking about thousand hound rocks. And but I got in

1549
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 1: my head, I'm gonna do this, and uh, it was

1550
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 1: just I don't just the way I am if I

1551
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: if I get into something, I'm gonna do it right,

1552
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna do it at all. Well, there's

1553
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: just some fantastic lessons in that. You know, when we

1554
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 1: when the folks like me or other filmmakers try to

1555
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:22,800
Speaker 1: like encapsulate as I've been a part of trying to

1556
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 1: take your story in China, tell people what meaning there

1557
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 1: isn't it? That's one that's a big part of it.

1558
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 1: I mean when I saw you and Rick just working

1559
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 1: your tails off to build that dug out, I thought,

1560
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 1: I was I just shocked, you know, and to sit

1561
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:43,560
Speaker 1: there and I was happy. I was happy with the

1562
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:45,280
Speaker 1: dug out. And then he wanted to do the dead

1563
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 1: the deck. Yeah, the deck that you guys builds even crazy,

1564
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 1: give me a break man. And then whenever we got

1565
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 1: finished with the deck, he went, it's not big enough.

1566
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:55,720
Speaker 1: Let's go let's make one. Let's make it twice as big.

1567
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 1: So I just took my head, Okay, let's do it.

1568
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:01,320
Speaker 1: And we finished that and then did the Then I

1569
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 1: built the rock firepit. Yeah, and uh and finally that's enough. Yeah. Well,

1570
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:12,560
Speaker 1: if you're out there listening to this and you're you know,

1571
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 1: you're looking for some motivation that that's it right there

1572
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 1: for me. There's a lot of people that are fancy

1573
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 1: themselves motivational speakers. But just look up to find photos

1574
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: of woman's dugout and when you see it, I will

1575
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: share some when we share this podcast. When you see it,

1576
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:36,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, huh, how two guys. Yeah, same

1577
01:29:36,120 --> 01:29:38,160
Speaker 1: thing with the jail house. I know people for people

1578
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 1: that don't know you, Um took an old jail what

1579
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: what year as the jail house bill? And what year

1580
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,400
Speaker 1: what did you what year did you require it? Uh?

1581
01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:52,880
Speaker 1: Purchased it in not teen eighty one. And then two

1582
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:59,879
Speaker 1: other individuals, Tracy Cartwright and Mike Waldron, Um, we we tackled.

1583
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 1: They did the really tough work. You know, we're I'm

1584
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,160
Speaker 1: not a carpenter. I'm Jake leg at Best. I'm weekend

1585
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: weekend guy, and I can't make a square box. But

1586
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: but what I could tackle was the more crude stuff

1587
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 1: like putting in the uh the floor joist, things like

1588
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 1: that and uh. But it took about two and a

1589
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 1: half years to finally get that thing livable and U

1590
01:30:27,200 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 1: and it was. Tracy was here just just probably an

1591
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:32,679
Speaker 1: hour ago, and we were just talking and laughing about

1592
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 1: the jail, and I told him, I said, I walk

1593
01:30:35,040 --> 01:30:37,200
Speaker 1: over there occasionally I'll just just shake my head and

1594
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: just turn and walk out. I just can't believe it.

1595
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: I can't believe it happened. Yeah, it was a tremulous effort.

1596
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 1: If you would have told yourself A one that you

1597
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 1: know at two thousand, I think it was thirteen or

1598
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: whenever the year it was, that you were gonna be

1599
01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:57,160
Speaker 1: on h G TV and the it was there two

1600
01:30:57,240 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: or I know twice, possibly three times, and h ETV

1601
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:04,720
Speaker 1: I know twice. I know another group came in. I

1602
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:08,560
Speaker 1: don't recall who they were, but it's been on on

1603
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 1: the other little TV specials. It's a little short short runs,

1604
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 1: uh news articles and so. But yeah, it's a it

1605
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 1: was a worthy cause. Each time I drive by it,

1606
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,360
Speaker 1: I look up and I'm proud that it happened. But

1607
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:28,680
Speaker 1: but I don't get on top of it anymore. I

1608
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,880
Speaker 1: used to. I used to get on the get up

1609
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 1: to take a ladder and pull it up on top

1610
01:31:34,479 --> 01:31:37,200
Speaker 1: of the house portion and then extend that up on

1611
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:40,600
Speaker 1: the eaves of the jail, and then climb up to

1612
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:43,560
Speaker 1: the very top, which is like thirty feet up and

1613
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:47,599
Speaker 1: and inspect the ten and the skylight, but I don't

1614
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:51,160
Speaker 1: do that anymore, mainly from from my wife, from Slenda

1615
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 1: saying you are not going on top to jail anymore. Well,

1616
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: thank the Lord for Slenda being there to keep you,

1617
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 1: keep you grounded literally in that case. You know, I'll

1618
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:02,719
Speaker 1: tell you when you when you're telling the story is stints.

1619
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: You know, my dad just oh three weeks ago, had

1620
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 1: had a big heart attack and had three stints put in.

1621
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: He had three ninety percent of blockages. Um. And I

1622
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 1: remembered you having that done back in you know, those years,

1623
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 1: and telling me about that. My dad has has had

1624
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:27,040
Speaker 1: heart problems for some time. Um. But it it got

1625
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:29,719
Speaker 1: me to thinking about when it happened. We were locked

1626
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 1: down so I couldn't go see him. But and he's fine,

1627
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:35,679
Speaker 1: and he's relatively fine now. But there were some emotions

1628
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:37,600
Speaker 1: in it for me, like thinking about my relationship, what

1629
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: my dad had been to me, what I might mean

1630
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 1: to my children. You know you, I'm sure you you've

1631
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:45,400
Speaker 1: thought about that before. But I know one thing we've

1632
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: never really talked about was your relationship with your dad,

1633
01:32:48,439 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 1: kind of what he meant to you and how he

1634
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:55,760
Speaker 1: helps you become who you are. Well. Dad, of course

1635
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 1: was one of the old fellows that older people that

1636
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 1: he was born in nineteen eight team and uh, and

1637
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 1: he grew up without much in a big family. Um

1638
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:09,680
Speaker 1: I can't I don't recall exactly, but they had like,

1639
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 1: you know, four or five brothers and a couple of

1640
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: sisters and they just didn't have much. But he grew

1641
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:22,840
Speaker 1: up working all, you know, very hard, and uh. He

1642
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:27,040
Speaker 1: taught my brother and I a good work ethic. You know,

1643
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: you don't you don't just come by things sitting on

1644
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:34,320
Speaker 1: your butt. And I guess that's one of the reasons

1645
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 1: the jail got it was, I mean, the the dugout

1646
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 1: and the jail was accomplished because we just believed in

1647
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 1: work and hard work. And that's that's. Uh. You derive

1648
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 1: good things whenever you take time and energy to show

1649
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 1: people you care and are willing to work. And so

1650
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: that's that's one of the things that Dad instilled in us.

1651
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: And also, unlike a lot of old timers, I mean

1652
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:05,639
Speaker 1: whenever I was cowboying as a as a young boy

1653
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 1: and a teenager, you know, he expected me to be

1654
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 1: a cowboy. I broke horses, uh, you know, rope through cattle,

1655
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, through branded I did the whole schmir something

1656
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 1: I have no interest in anymore. But uh, Dad realized

1657
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:33,599
Speaker 1: early that wasn't in my heart. He realized that, as

1658
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: the old adage goes, I just danced to a different tune.

1659
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,719
Speaker 1: I loved hunting. That was my deal. When I worked cattle.

1660
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 1: I was also interested in archaeology and paleontology because constantly

1661
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: looking for airhead and bones. And he told my mother

1662
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: one day he walked in the house and said, I

1663
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know about that boy. He's not

1664
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:55,080
Speaker 1: ever gonna make a cowboy because he just his heart's

1665
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 1: not in it. And and Dad realized that, and so

1666
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:04,240
Speaker 1: he let me, oh my direction, and that's that's there

1667
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:06,880
Speaker 1: was something big about about the old timers. I mean

1668
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:09,240
Speaker 1: that that was a tough call for him. You know,

1669
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:11,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people know you're going to do this.

1670
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:15,439
Speaker 1: Um Now, I know my mom, she was born in

1671
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:18,840
Speaker 1: twenty six and she always thought I would have a

1672
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:22,679
Speaker 1: desk job. She's I know whenever I got out of tech,

1673
01:35:22,760 --> 01:35:24,640
Speaker 1: and saved me for it, and she said, what are

1674
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 1: you gonna do that? Well, I want to trap for

1675
01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 1: a while. She said, you need to get a job

1676
01:35:27,960 --> 01:35:30,840
Speaker 1: in and have a desk job. I said, well, that's

1677
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:33,280
Speaker 1: the last thing I want to do. And she never

1678
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 1: said much more about it after that, but she thought

1679
01:35:35,560 --> 01:35:38,280
Speaker 1: because I was an educated person, I needed to use it.

1680
01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:44,640
Speaker 1: But but both mom and dad let me let me

1681
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 1: dance to my own team, and I appreciate that. That's

1682
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:49,400
Speaker 1: a big part. I know. You've always told me stories

1683
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:51,160
Speaker 1: about when you and Rick were kids, like you just

1684
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:54,560
Speaker 1: kinda were gone. They would let you just go and

1685
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: be on the right. They would yeah, ride horses, go hunt.

1686
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 1: They started out early and just said look, you know,

1687
01:36:02,240 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 1: be careful. But they weren't hovering helicopter parents. They just

1688
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 1: said watch for rattlers. And lord knows, we lived right

1689
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:17,640
Speaker 1: right on basically on top of the den, and we

1690
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:20,920
Speaker 1: would walk across big rattlers cold up that would And

1691
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 1: that's probably one of the reasons that I don't kill

1692
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:26,679
Speaker 1: rattles next today, is because I don't. There's no telling

1693
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:30,040
Speaker 1: how many rattlers let me walk by them as a

1694
01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:34,639
Speaker 1: little boy in my youthful years and just said, hey,

1695
01:36:35,080 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 1: he's a punk kid. I'm gonna let him go. And

1696
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 1: because I can remember coming upon some that like lifting

1697
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:44,280
Speaker 1: up piece of wood and there would be this huge

1698
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 1: rattler laying there and I just let it back down. Yeah,

1699
01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 1: he could have struck out hit me in the leg

1700
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 1: and so, but Mom and Dad basically just said watch

1701
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 1: for rattlers and be careful with those guns and just

1702
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: let us go. That'd be a nice T shirt for

1703
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:13,760
Speaker 1: I like that. I like that, you keep it, I can't.

1704
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:17,960
Speaker 1: I just tell Selinda she can make that happen, and

1705
01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:20,280
Speaker 1: she I'll tell you what. We've got a lady who

1706
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 1: does T shirts, and I believe what I'm gonna put.

1707
01:37:22,160 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a T shirt. Mate. All our request

1708
01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 1: is just you send me one of the first ones.

1709
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 1: I'll wear it every day, will you got it? Man? Well, listen,

1710
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:32,519
Speaker 1: I mean that's a great that's a great note to

1711
01:37:32,640 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: end on. Man. I Um, I can't tell you how

1712
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 1: much I appreciate you and appreciate talking to and sharing

1713
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 1: stories and thanks for thanks for being so willing to

1714
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 1: share stuff with everybody. I think it's important for a

1715
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:46,200
Speaker 1: lot of people. Well, it's, uh, you know, I'm at

1716
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:48,479
Speaker 1: that point in life where I don't mind, you know,

1717
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 1: sharing with people and helping people and instilling uh you know,

1718
01:37:54,040 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: some enthusiasm for what they're what they have in their

1719
01:37:56,439 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 1: hearts and if I can do that, I'm willing to help.

1720
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,080
Speaker 1: Are doing it alright, man, alright, appreciate thanks so much.

1721
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:15,479
Speaker 1: Thank you again. That's it. That's all. Another episode in

1722
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:17,560
Speaker 1: the books. Thank you to Mr Wyman Menser and his

1723
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:20,599
Speaker 1: wife's Salinda, their entire wonderful family there and Benjamin Texas

1724
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 1: can't wait too, I can get on the plank, So

1725
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:25,840
Speaker 1: I go down and visit him, take some photos, maybe

1726
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,360
Speaker 1: shoot some kayots, depending on how he feels, we feel.

1727
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:31,840
Speaker 1: But wonderful conversation, a wonderful man. Another one of these

1728
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:33,560
Speaker 1: people that are kind of in my world that I

1729
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:37,719
Speaker 1: m looking back on all my interactions, all of the podcast,

1730
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:40,519
Speaker 1: everybody I've met through hunting and through being in the outdoors.

1731
01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 1: Um boy, I'm thankful for Wyman, very very very thankful

1732
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: for him, and so I really appreciate all that he

1733
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:52,679
Speaker 1: said and has done for our show. And Joe Fernando

1734
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:56,120
Speaker 1: and Phil course T Engineer. We got through, we got

1735
01:38:56,160 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 1: through the the difficult topic of ray and riots in

1736
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 1: the United States. We talked to you about regenda to agriculture.

1737
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna kind of put to bed at some level

1738
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:10,960
Speaker 1: for now. The Brett Bond Glenn Bond bear attack story.

1739
01:39:12,120 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna move on to other things. UM, a lot

1740
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,000
Speaker 1: of a lot of good stuff planned in upcoming episodes

1741
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:22,120
Speaker 1: before we go. I just phil discovered this email from

1742
01:39:22,240 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 1: Russ Taggart. Now, UM, there's no secret that I want

1743
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 1: to get the title sponsor from White Claw in the show.

1744
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:33,080
Speaker 1: Are you aware of that film? I made that clear,

1745
01:39:33,200 --> 01:39:36,759
Speaker 1: right several times? Several times. So this is an official

1746
01:39:36,840 --> 01:39:38,519
Speaker 1: plead to the folks at White Claws. I think anybody

1747
01:39:38,560 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: listens in the White Claw marketing team, I don't know.

1748
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 1: I mean, they're kind of a big deal. It's probably

1749
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: like one or two meat eater fans somewhere in there, right, Yeah,

1750
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:48,320
Speaker 1: So maybe they're listening. Maybe they're hearing this, Maybe they're

1751
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 1: feeling charitable, maybe they're feeling like there's a lot of compelling,

1752
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 1: engaging content, a lot of synergies, a lot of marketing

1753
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:57,720
Speaker 1: speak here. I'm speaking to you marketing people at White Claw. Um.

1754
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:00,760
Speaker 1: Russ Tagget wrote, any any said this and this is

1755
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:02,640
Speaker 1: something that if I happened to work in marketing and

1756
01:40:02,640 --> 01:40:05,839
Speaker 1: White Cloud probably want to hear. Um, as as Ben O'Brien,

1757
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:10,559
Speaker 1: the Influencer Ben, a special thanks, as I have heard

1758
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:13,360
Speaker 1: you refer to drinking white claw on a recent trip

1759
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:16,639
Speaker 1: to town. Russ is from Canada. I came across white

1760
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:18,200
Speaker 1: Claws in the liquor store and I knew I had

1761
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:20,960
Speaker 1: to try them. As I potted at the selection of flavors.

1762
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 1: He spells it with a you Canadian spelling. I thought

1763
01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 1: a phil right away when I saw they came in

1764
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 1: Mango clearly was a sign tasty and refreshing. Thanks again, Russ.

1765
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 1: I just thought i'd read that. You know, Ben, we

1766
01:40:38,040 --> 01:40:41,960
Speaker 1: disagree on a lot of things, one of them being

1767
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:47,720
Speaker 1: the white Claw flavor tier flavor tiers. But one thing

1768
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:53,200
Speaker 1: we agree on is that mango is a top tier flavor.

1769
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: Real quick, just quickly before we go. I know we

1770
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 1: all have to get as this show has been a

1771
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 1: little scatter bread and I'm aware of Fields going to

1772
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:09,200
Speaker 1: clean it up for us. Uh, watermelon my new top flavor.

1773
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:14,800
Speaker 1: Just come on, just just an awful, awful, just a

1774
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:19,360
Speaker 1: bad opinion, just wrong. It's just wrong. You had the watermelon. Yeah,

1775
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 1: it's not. I don't want that in my hard seltzer.

1776
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:27,800
Speaker 1: It's watermelon, Jolly rancher, great a plus watermelon, White Claw

1777
01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:31,400
Speaker 1: keep just get out of here. Got done, nice day.

1778
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm done a nice day of bear hunting. And I

1779
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:37,479
Speaker 1: go to the gas station, you know, and they're there

1780
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 1: and there is a nice forty size I did this

1781
01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:43,320
Speaker 1: the other day. There was like a giant can. I mean,

1782
01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,759
Speaker 1: just you know, Paul is a tall man. I felt.

1783
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:49,920
Speaker 1: And then it was watermelon white clone. I got one,

1784
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:54,040
Speaker 1: and then I safely drove home without drinking any of it.

1785
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:56,560
Speaker 1: And then when I got home, I let loose and

1786
01:41:56,640 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 1: before I had unpacked my stuff in the garage, I

1787
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 1: had drank two thirds of the watermelon white clawth tall boy.

1788
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:05,759
Speaker 1: I was feeling really good, and that's when I decided

1789
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:10,600
Speaker 1: it's time. I mean, listen, we all can't have you

1790
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 1: just sophisticated palates that appreciate the the noble pa and

1791
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:20,000
Speaker 1: the bet the better white cloud flavors of natural wine

1792
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:26,560
Speaker 1: and grapefruit. But that's okay, that's fine, all hail watermelon.

1793
01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:30,200
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time with a hunting collective. Because

1794
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:45,719
Speaker 1: I can't go a week without doing run drank