1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome back to Work in Progress. 2 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: The life's work of today's impressive, inspiring and trailblazing guest 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: has impacted literally every single one of us on our planet. 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: We have with us on the pod today mathematician and 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: GPS pioneer Dr Gladys West. Dr West's career spanned forty 6 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: two years in the field of math and science, and 7 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: her work landed her in the United States Air Force 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, in one of the highest honors bestowed 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: by Air Force Space Command. Dr West is the only 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: black woman to be inducted into the Air Force Missile 11 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: and Space Pioneers Hall of Fame, and was recently inducted 12 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: into the National Black College Alumni Hall of Fame. She 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: holds a Bachelor of Science and a Master's of Science 14 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: from Virginia State University, a Masters of Arts from Oklahoma University, 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: and a PhD from Virginia Tech. The work Gladys did 16 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: to analyze data from satellites was used to put together 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: models of the Earth's shape, which led to our modern 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: day GPS. So, if you are in your car right 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: now listening to this episode and you're using GPS to 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: get anywhere you can thank Gladys forgetting you to where 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: you need to go. Gladys also participated in an award 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,919 Speaker 1: winning astronomical study that proved the regularity of Pluto's motion 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: relative to Neptune, and became project manager for the first 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: satellite that could remotely sense oceans. You guys, I have 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: such a brain crush on this woman. I don't even 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: know how I'm going to handle this interview. And Gladys 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: didn't stop there. Dr West earned her PhD after she 28 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: retired in from her forty two year career in Dahlgren, Virginia. 29 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: Though the film Hidden Figures did not sent her directly around, Gladys, 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: she was right there sharing that building, living through the 31 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: same challenges that her fellow brilliant black female colleagues had 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: during this tense time of integration, all against the backdrop 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: of scientific innovation. It is my utmost privilege to welcome 34 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: Dr Gladys West to work in progress. Where where do 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: we find you today? We're reclining from King geoge Virginia. 36 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: You're in Virginia and you've always lived in Virginia. Correct, Yes, Well, 37 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled to hear about your story and actually, gladys, 38 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: if it's all right, I'd love to ask you first, 39 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 1: what was life like growing up for you in Virginia. 40 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: I I've read so much about you. I know that 41 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: you worked on your family's farm. Uh. Can you can 42 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: you paint a picture for us of the era of 43 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: your childhood a bit? Yes, I can do that. I 44 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:05,119 Speaker 1: really grew up in Sutherland, Virginia, a little rural area. Uh, 45 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: not too far from Petersburg and not too far from Richmond. Also, anyway, 46 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: I remember some tale about if you were a farmer 47 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: and there's the walls coming on, if you were a farmer, 48 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have to go to the military, so you know, 49 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: So there were quite a few farmers around in our area. 50 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: We had a small farm, and there were four kids 51 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: most of the time. The last one came much later. 52 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: But we raised tobacco, corn, cotton, peanuts, and had a 53 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: lot of fruit trees that we had to maintain, and uh, 54 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: we grew a lot of vegetables for for taking care 55 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: of the family. M hm and uh. We lived about 56 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: three miles from elementary school, so each day we would 57 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: have to walk during the school time, we would have 58 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: to walk there and back and uh, before before you 59 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: go to school in the morning, you had to get 60 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: up real enough to make sure you fed the animals 61 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: before you went, and then when you came back and 62 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: make sure you fed him a game, and you know, 63 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: before you did your homework and had your dinner and 64 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: all that. So we felt that we were started busy 65 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: because a lot of our friends didn't have to do 66 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 1: anything like that. They never talked about taking care of 67 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: the animals. So you had a lot of responsibility. Yes, 68 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: we we did for kids. But in my mind, as 69 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm doing it, even though I was very obedient and everything, 70 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: I was saying, I would like to get off this fall. 71 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to stay on this bomb the rest 72 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: of my life. And that wasn't hadn't been such a 73 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: good picture for me to be looking at staring at 74 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: on the phone. And uh, I also like to be 75 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: clean and neat. But on the phone you get them 76 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: get clean and all, and then you go out in 77 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: the fields and you come back you're the same way 78 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: you were before you did clean. I didn't like that. 79 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: So we managed to have really good food and good 80 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: meals and stuff that we were pretty rich when it 81 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: came to that. But when it came to money, we 82 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: were so rich before. Did you have when you when 83 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: you describe meals like that, I think about you know, 84 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: that jovial meal time and a big family sitting around 85 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: the table and eating and telling stories. Did you have 86 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: that kind of close knit family for our family, just 87 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: just our family of four of us and the parents. 88 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: We were always together. We never missed the meal, one 89 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: being away or something like that. And we always were 90 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: there for nighttime too, so we we were close. And 91 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: we started like I knew how to talk to each 92 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: other because we we played with each other most of 93 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: the time too. Because the neighbors at nighttime, you didn't 94 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: really go very far and people weren't didn't live very 95 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: far from us, so um, you would have to get 96 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: out and go somewhere. So I don't know why we 97 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: didn't like the dog, but you didn't know if it 98 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: was got in the dock. So we always made sure 99 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: we did what we have to do and get back 100 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: home by day. Like anyway, we kept this farm and 101 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: we had to keep this farm in good honor, uh 102 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: and ready to grow and all because that was where 103 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: a lot of who he came from, and tobacco was 104 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: the big crop that brought in the money. And so 105 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: that means you got to get the grass out and 106 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: all the all the maintaining kind of thing. And that 107 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: was really for a tedious and so I just confessed 108 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: myself that I was smarter than just to stay on 109 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: the pharm. I had something else I could do, Besis 110 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: do on the phone. Well, it's funny when you talk 111 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: about those tasks that could seem to use your word tedious, 112 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: and and I wonder now, looking back, do you think 113 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: that all of that work ethic that you learned on 114 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: the farm gave you your work ethic to go into 115 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: mathematics as as a student and as an adult. Do 116 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: you think there's a connection there. I think you may 117 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: be right, because there's a certain person now that I have, 118 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: uh that math enhances. And I just love everything to 119 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: be orderly and uh, you know, precise and and neat, 120 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: and like to play something and I can lay it 121 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: out and then follow through the plant. One of the 122 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: things I find so inspiring about it. And even when 123 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: we you know, we fast forward from learning about your 124 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: childhood to this moment, we all find our elves in 125 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: when I when I think about the way we're trying 126 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: to learn about each other and the way we're trying 127 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: to do better for each other. It can be very 128 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: hard for people to unlearned a story they have been 129 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: raised on, especially when a story has harmed other people. 130 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: And I think about the stories that have been so harmful, 131 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: that have enabled sexism that you and I have both experienced. 132 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: I think about the stories that for hundreds of years 133 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: have been so harmful, that have enabled racism and oppression, 134 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: which you and your intersectional experience have also experienced. And 135 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: the thing that I always say to people when they 136 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: ask why I get so hung up on this is 137 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: math doesn't lie. Math is not emotional. Math is perfect. 138 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: So when we look at data about how certain communities 139 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: are being invested in in certain are not how communities 140 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: have suffered and others have not. How we have these 141 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: great big budgets here in the US and we could 142 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: use them for things like, you know, an infrastructure plan 143 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: and shy old care. And the thing I always come 144 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: back to is math doesn't lie. And and I'm enamored 145 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: with math, even though I can admit I'm much more 146 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: of you know, an English and history major. I'm much 147 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 1: better at telling stories and asking questions that I am 148 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: at doing equations, But I just I have this sort 149 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: of romanticized love for numbers because I think that they 150 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: are the truth. And so I'm this is why I 151 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: was saying, I'm so geeked to be talking to you 152 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: because you are you are a math legend. Oh yeah, 153 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: I guess you always feel safe when you deal with 154 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: the numbers and get the numbers right, you know. Yeah, 155 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: And I'm so curious. You know, how, as a young 156 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: woman did you realize because you know, you you speak 157 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: about being a great student and knowing that you wanted 158 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: to go into something different than what you came from. 159 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: You knew it's an honorable profession, but farming is not 160 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: for you, So something else was How how did you 161 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: begin to lean into what that's something else might be? 162 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: In school? Where where did the path appear? Well? Well, 163 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: I didn't really started the lion until when I was 164 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: in high school and we started talking about what do 165 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: you want to do when you grew up and when 166 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna major and when you go to college? And 167 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: so I went to elementary school, but I didn't have 168 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: one teacher, so I guess we didn't get a whole 169 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: lot of ideas out of that one teacher. But we 170 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: have all these teachers there in high school, and so 171 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: we would talk about where to go to school and 172 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: subjects and how difficult they were and how easy this 173 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: one was and so forth. So I did well in 174 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: all of my subjects that I took in school, since 175 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: I started school in the elementary school. The teachers were would, 176 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: I mean things like, since you do well in all 177 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: of your subjects, and since math is supposed to be 178 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: harder or you know, more regimental or whatever they words 179 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: they were using, like you could do math because some 180 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: other people can't do math, and so you can be 181 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: like a step ahead. I guess, you know, you you 182 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: can get a better job, you can get a different 183 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: job than teaching, and that kind of thing. And so 184 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: that's how I started. And then you know, when you 185 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: started thinking you're gonna do something, you go that way 186 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: then really really well. So did you through high school 187 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: when they were highlighting to you that you had this skill? 188 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: Did you have a favorite type of math? Were you? 189 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: Were you a lover of algebra, of of geometry, of physics? 190 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: You know what? What kind of made you feel inspired? 191 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: I think it was the geometry that really Uh, got 192 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: my attention. And and also we had one professor who 193 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: I guess it was a teacher in high school who 194 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: really taught it to be a lily. Well, and that 195 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: made you like it more to too. Yeah, so that 196 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: was it was nice. But I guess I didn't like 197 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: all those books you had to read too. I didn't 198 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: like to read English. Uh, we're talking different students when 199 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: talking about who Jamajian in and I'm in the books 200 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: you had and what you had to do. So I 201 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: guess I thought it was easier. But but it's a 202 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: way of life because I feel lonely out of the 203 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: math and science area. I just don't fit in too good, 204 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, I feel myself saying me, you know that's 205 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: not your feel really. So so in other fields, you 206 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: didn't feel like you belonged in the way you felt 207 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: you belonged in math. Yeah, that's so interesting. Oh that's 208 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: so so interesting to me because I just had such 209 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: a different experience When you talk about not loving all 210 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: the books you had to read in English class but 211 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: loving math, I'm like, God, if we'd been in school 212 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: in the same time, we could have tutored each other. 213 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: It would have been great. You know, I think about 214 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: your experience, and you have such a such a beautiful 215 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: way of telling these stories. And I look at the 216 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: timeline of your life, and you know, you graduated valedictorian 217 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: in in nineteen which, by the way, I'm going to 218 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: brag on you for a minute. At your high school, 219 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: the top two students of each graduating class received full 220 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: ride scholarships to Virginia State, and you received dot scholarship. 221 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: And and being such an academic that you get a 222 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: full ride to college is an achievement now. And I 223 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: think about you doing this in nineteen not only as 224 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: a woman, but did this as a black woman. You 225 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: did this in an era where, to your point, families 226 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: like yours needed to be home by sundown, where where 227 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: our world was not as kind as we would all 228 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: like it to be. And we're still working on those issues. 229 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't want to bring us down. 230 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: I really want to just say I'm in awe of you, 231 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: and I am curious you have so much perspective on 232 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: these eras of change. But to be doing that at 233 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: that time, were you conscious of that kind of you know, 234 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: push and pull in the world around you. Were you 235 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: made aware of the obstacles you faced in you know, 236 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: junior high in high school as a black woman and 237 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: as this brilliant student, or did it just feel kind 238 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: of like the way things were, well, you did feel 239 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: something by the hood was going on you. You felt 240 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: you felt that. But I guess the parents had grown 241 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: up in the worse time than we had, and so 242 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: they had ideas about how you get get around it, 243 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: to get over it kind of things. And you said, 244 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: you learn a lot of things like not being out 245 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: in the streets at night kind of stuff, you know, 246 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: being respectful to others and and all and not asking 247 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: for trouble and all that kind of stuff, you know, 248 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: And so you learn a lot of that started getting 249 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: along with others. But we had we had as far 250 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: as girl things and boy things. We had that in 251 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: our own environment, like taking care of anything that was 252 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: for the horses and cows and stuff was for the 253 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: man thing plowing behind the plow, holding the plower, but 254 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: that was the main thing. But the girl thing was 255 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: a little bit maybe off in the grass or something, 256 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, it was better. So and anyway, I had 257 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: a girl and a boy thing in my mind all 258 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: through the times, which is sometimes I think me have 259 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: hurt me a lot, because maybe I would have been 260 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: different if I, you know, done whatever I could do 261 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: best instead of being the girl thing. But I think 262 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: about even you know, your your mention of what was 263 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: suggested to you. I remember talking to my grandmother about this, 264 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: you know, she said, well, girls who were good at 265 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: school were all told to be teachers. You know, that 266 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: was just kind of your option. And I'm so fascinated 267 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: that that, even in that time that you were at school, 268 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: people said to you, you're so good at this that 269 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a teacher. You could be 270 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: something else. I mean, what a what a moment in 271 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: that particular time in history. Yeah, you I was. Was 272 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: the rest of your family so proud when you graduated 273 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: and got the scholarship to college? Was was there jealousy 274 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: about it? How did that? How did that all play out? 275 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how much jealousy, but I do know 276 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: that the family were really proud and I was really special, 277 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, like different or something. I mean, yeah, I 278 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: didn't feel any special to anything, but that's that's the 279 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: way they thought. Oh gladys, you know kind of thing. 280 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: But it's sound something like a Britain to be the 281 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: brightest or at the top or something, because they expect 282 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: more and more of you, you know, So I just 283 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: tried to be myself. And then what was it like 284 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: to go to college? I mean, being in classes in 285 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty I imagine you know, you were surrounded 286 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: probably by a lot of dudes who didn't look like you, 287 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, in school? Was it were they encouraging, were 288 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: they exclusionary? Were they impressed by you? Maybe a little 289 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: bit of all the things. Yeah, well, I said, I 290 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: went to all black college, so I didn't have anything 291 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: about the integration kind of stuff going on. But when 292 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: you come there like that, there's the freshman group and 293 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: their groups within the freshman group and whatever, and there 294 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: would be some people who be seem like they're having 295 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: a great time and like doing the break times that 296 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: the slow times, and you know, they're they're playing games 297 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: or talking or dancing or or whatever. And we seem 298 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: never to be able to get our then do because 299 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: we had too much work to do. So we stayed work, 300 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: stayed bowed down. We work trying to get your work 301 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: done for the next class. And so it was a 302 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: little bit of jealousy or envious and watching other people, 303 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: I felt that they were having more freedom than they 304 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: were enjoying themselves. That I was more tied down to 305 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: my way of you know, doing things than than they were. 306 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: But even then, I still look back and said that 307 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: I didn't play enough when I was growing up because 308 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,479 Speaker 1: I guess I was trying to be grown up and 309 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: I was trying to solve the world's problems. Uh, that 310 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: will really beyond me. I guess that current too big 311 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: a burden. Yeah, it's a lot to put on a 312 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: young woman's shoulders. Do you do you encourage your family, 313 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: you know, the people who have come after you and 314 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: your family to play a little bit more while they're 315 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: on their paths. Well, I say it at home a lot, 316 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, But I do feel that they should work hard, 317 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: like get your homework out, but then play, you know. 318 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: I do feel that, but you got to be sort 319 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: of discipline, you know, to start to do it right. 320 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: But but I do feel that that should be a 321 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: happy medium. That you shouldn't work all the time, that 322 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: you've start to find something that that's required, that you 323 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: work on something you like and and uh you can 324 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: focus on without taking all of your time. How did 325 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: an organization like the Alpha Cappa Alpha sorority. How did 326 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: that play into your college experience? It was a special 327 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and the only like special people who 328 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: were doing well in their classes or something special were joining. 329 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: And so I got that scholarship, and that scholarship paid 330 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: all of my expenses except room and board. Anyway, I 331 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 1: needed some money to finish paying all my bills, and 332 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: so I stayed with the doctor Hunter, who was physics head, 333 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: and Mrs Hunter, who was a math professor. So I 334 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: stated the house and took care of the daughter who 335 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: was my six six six years old or something like that. 336 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: And uh, Mrs Hunter was an a k A. And 337 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: I just picked up a lot from hearing them going 338 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: to meetings and going to conferences and how excited they were, 339 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: and you know, they had big ideas and things that 340 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: they were working on. So I got that kind of 341 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: idea about a k A. And then one night, I 342 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: guess in the nineteen fifty somebody knocked on the door 343 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: and says, you have been recommended to become an a 344 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: k A. And that's and so you know that that 345 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: was a big shocked to me too. So I just 346 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: sort of like did my thing they had that order 347 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: and stuff you're supposed to do. I start, I did 348 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: that and I got through fine, So I'm still in there. 349 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: That is so cool. Now you got not one but 350 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: two masters. You're reas and again in AWE. And you 351 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,719 Speaker 1: were hired in nineteen fifty six to work at the 352 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: Naval Proving Ground. That just sounds immense and and and 353 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: so impressive. In all the reading I've done about you, 354 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: you know, people talk about how you were a programmer 355 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: in the Naval Service Warfare Center Dolgren division for large 356 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: scale computers and you were a project manager for data 357 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: processing systems and those systems were used to analyze the 358 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: data coming in from satellites. What that is? That is 359 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: so cool to me? What what does that mean in 360 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six? Because I think about the fact that 361 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: computers then don't even resemble what computers are now. So 362 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: what were you all programming at Dolgren? What were you 363 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: working on? What is what is satellite day to even 364 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: look like in nineteen fifty six? Yeah, I can I 365 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: can imagine what you're seeing and feeling, I guess, But 366 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: it's it's amazing. There's a group of people over there 367 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 1: who's pretty much up up to snuff for everything up 368 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: to that point, and this was a big change that 369 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: was going to happen. And we we had never worked 370 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: in an integrated environment, you know, I had only the 371 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: teaching me for and so we had to I think 372 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: they were purposely getting us into integrate dog and so 373 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: that was a whole lot of things were happened. But 374 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: they had also found out a lot, a lot about 375 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: computers and by data and satellites and that kind of stuff. 376 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: They found a lot, but I found out a lot 377 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: about that, and so they were up to snuff with that. 378 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: And then here they had these big computers and they 379 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: could process this data. It was a lot of data. 380 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: But there's it's possibly process now because the computers haven't 381 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: made so big, holds so much storage and moved so 382 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: fast that they could accomplish all things that they hadn't 383 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: accomplished before. And so it was a great It was 384 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: a great time. It was a great time doing that time. 385 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: You know, do you remember what it was like on 386 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: your first day arriving there, because you know, you mentioned 387 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: it was a it was a moment of the beginning 388 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: of integration. I know that when you started working there, 389 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: you were one of only four black employees. And to 390 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: your point, you were arriving at a place that had 391 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: the most cutting edge technology. Yes, was it wild to 392 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: walk in the door on your first day. Do you 393 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: remember what that felt like? It was calm, really, yeah, 394 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: it was calm, and people were nice. And you're going 395 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: around seeing this big computer that occupied you know, a 396 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: couple of rooms or two, and and you're thinking, how 397 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: am I going to fit in here? But they were 398 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: talking to you, So I don't know. I always believe 399 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: that I could do it. I guess I felt that 400 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: it was a challenge for me. I felt that I 401 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: have to work hard. I have to get to know 402 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: the people and myself to do the best I can 403 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: and be an asset to the group. You know, do 404 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: my best so that I'm not causing problems for other people. Uh, 405 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: as far as doing your work correctly and that that 406 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and learning as much as I can. 407 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: Everything was new. You had to learn learn a lot 408 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: about how to program and code. And I guess when 409 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: we really started at the beginning, and we're talking binary numbers, 410 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: and you know, and binary just bogs your mind, you 411 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: know how many Yeah, once in Zeros and and that 412 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: kind of thing. So I guess the people were nice 413 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: to and you know, you always have these brilliant scientists 414 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: and all that around, and we had we had quite 415 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: a few of those two who help setting up stuffs 416 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,479 Speaker 1: and then the breaking it down so that people who 417 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: are not as advanced as they are can follow through two. 418 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: So we had had all that. So uh, but we're 419 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: going at the dog round though, um we we um. 420 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: Uh hadn't seen the computer, well I had, I should say, 421 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: I hadn't seen a big computer like that. You know, 422 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: I don't even what one looked like. Who we saw 423 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: was calculators, you know, calculated that set on your desk, 424 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: and they had this big thing that sat in this room. 425 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: And they will call you on the phone when they 426 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: got ready to run your cards. They went in punch cards. 427 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: Your your program will be in punch card and they 428 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: call you say, oh, your your programs are gonna run. 429 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: Now you come down. You sit there and you watch 430 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: the clink, the clink and clinton clinking and print out 431 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: press out of something and then you come back instead 432 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: of what did I do wrong when I coded a program? 433 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: Matt and so on and so so that was your 434 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: thing is to wait for to come back and see 435 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: what you've done, hoping that you you know, it didn't 436 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: mess up too much and whenever. But that's the way 437 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,479 Speaker 1: I guess my mind worked two and as you do 438 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: it and you saw it and you go back. Yeah, 439 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: so that the programming that you were working on, the 440 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: code you were writing for the folks listening at home 441 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: who don't know that all of that satellite data you 442 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: all were putting models together of the shape of the Earth. 443 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: Did you have any idea when you were modeling our 444 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: planet that that would be the foundational science for GPS 445 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: because you didn't know. Wow, Because I think about you guys, 446 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: and I think about if it wasn't for Gladys and 447 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: her team, none of us would be able to get anywhere. Yeah, 448 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: we we didn't. We didn't know exactly where those is 449 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: going because we were working for the military, and in 450 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: the military most everything is secret and you know, some classification. 451 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure the more advanced scientists knew who 452 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: were exactly what we were doing, I can imagine, but 453 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: everybody didn't know. And so, um, it was the vibe 454 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: to work up. You know, you're doing that chunk, another 455 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: one doing that and we all come together and you 456 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: put the results together and come up with the kind 457 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: of answers that you want. So, m we didn't know 458 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: that this is gonna be GPS. And plus they gave 459 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: the work to civilians, to the civilians afterwards too, and uh, 460 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: we never worked with Sibilians at the time, the enjoying 461 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: we were working around GPS. Interesting. Wait, so when you 462 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: talk about that, you know, obviously you're you're working for 463 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: the Navy and you're at Dahlgren And it's only striking 464 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: me now that you say, oh, well, we had to 465 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: share some data with civilians. Did that mean you also 466 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: had a military clearance of some sort to work there? Yes, 467 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: we had a military clearance. You're so cool, glad of 468 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: and you had to wear that bad all the time. 469 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: And then yeah, certain rooms you couldn't go in, right, 470 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, because you you didn't have the right classification. 471 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: I never got high in the top secret. Yeah, some rooms, 472 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: some rooms they never want to let anybody in. I'm 473 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: so curious. You know, when when you talk about modeling 474 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: the planet and I and again I think about this. 475 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: You know, in the mid fifties modeling the Earth, this 476 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: was really incredible science to prove the way the planet 477 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: sits in space. And and I think about the seventies 478 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: when when you know, Voyager was launched to go and 479 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: photograph the outer planets, the things we were learning about 480 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: our place, you know, in the galaxy and in the 481 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: Solar System. What was the experience like to begin modeling 482 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: Earth to confirm what this big planet that we all 483 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: live on really looks like. Was Was there ever a 484 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: time where that just felt so profound or or or 485 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: so inspiring or for you was it really so um 486 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: so in the numbers that it felt like just doing 487 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: everyday data. I guess it felt more like doing everyday data. 488 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: We weren't thinking about the really the magnitude of the 489 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: description of who we really were doing. You know, you 490 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: get this data that that finds everything that working on 491 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: and you just sort a clump clump through it and 492 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: you have mapster print out and stuff shind looks and whatever, 493 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: and not ever realizing, oh, man, I must be really 494 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: great if I'm working on this and never and that 495 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like, now, make sure we're gonna 496 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: get it right. So we're having a problem down the road, 497 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: you know, kind of thing like like that for me. 498 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: It was for me it was I get that too, 499 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, working on films or in television. People will say, well, 500 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: it must be so cool. I'm like, it's kind of 501 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: just like a puzzle. You know. You go to work 502 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: and you do your job and you make a thing, 503 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: and all the projects feel small, and it's not until 504 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: you see the whole thing put together that you go, 505 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: oh my god, that was huge. Yes, yes, yeah. One 506 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: of the things I'd love to ask you about, because 507 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: I could talk to you about your career all day. 508 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: But but something that I'm just so tickled by is 509 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: the story of you and your husband, Iro West. You know, 510 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: another incredible, brilliant math brain. Where did the two of 511 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: you meet? Well, he can tell you more about that 512 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: than I can, really. Yeah, we met at work, but 513 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: he met me, says, I was always sort of bookishing, 514 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: old lady like kind of thing, and so I knew 515 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: that I had something to get done, and I ain't 516 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: had time to be bother with certain kind of things happening, 517 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: and so I wasn't even ready for anything like boyfriend 518 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: in marriage and nothing. Then I need to find out 519 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: what I was doing where I was. So we met, Uh, 520 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: he came in fifty five and I came in fifty six. 521 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: And and then at a little coffee noess that we 522 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: had every morning, and they introduced us when when he 523 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: came before I did, so he introduced uh, they introduced 524 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: him to me and whatever. But I mean I didn't 525 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: think nothing. So I guess I guess he had his 526 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: work cut out for him courting you. You were like, 527 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: I got work to do, so yeah, that's right, that's right. 528 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: So well, and then we start started hanging out later 529 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: and so I was like I had a friend that 530 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: I could bounce something off, you know, on and that 531 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And we like that for for 532 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: a while, and that was nice. You know, you feel 533 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: comfortable with You got to know your enemies. You're thinking, 534 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: will I know he's not my enemy? Talking into it. Yeah. 535 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: So anyway, in a year's time, I think we were 536 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,239 Speaker 1: married a year. Well, was it nice for both of 537 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: you to be able to share your work, to be 538 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: able to, as you said, bounce ideas off of each other, 539 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: whether they were about you know, science or data or 540 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, when to start a family. Yeah, we still 541 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: do that there whenever I have to do something and 542 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: I want to hear another opinion, I ushould call you 543 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: call him and hear when he says so yeah, and 544 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: it's not. I think it's really nice. But on the 545 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: other hand, though, it brings the two of us together 546 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: in communication, and the rest of the family never got 547 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 1: in there with us, because you know, you don't talk 548 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: your work. Your work you do at home, and so 549 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: they don't know it's mine as your parents mastion man, 550 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: you major man. They don't even know what in parents. 551 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: So I guess it was bad for that that kind 552 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: of thing. We need to talk to the family, the 553 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: two of us. I imagine the level of what the 554 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: two of you do. It's it's probably like having your 555 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: own secret language. Yeah, you have to be in that 556 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: same area. It's something like to know which is really 557 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: going on because they have a lot of different types 558 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: of work that's being done and dog and so, you know, 559 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: some sad life and some ships and a lot of 560 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: areas that they're working now, the computers and so to 561 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,959 Speaker 1: bring in so much work for people. Are there things 562 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: that the two of you still collaborate on now, not 563 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: except that what I have to whenever I have to 564 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: do a talk or do something. Uh, we always collaborate 565 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: on the app. Do you have hobbies together? I always 566 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: think that, and this is just you know, maybe in 567 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: in my brain, you know, an idea I have almost 568 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: like a movie or something. But I always think that 569 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: people who are great at math love chess. Do you 570 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: guys play chess or any other kind of games like that? 571 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 1: He plays? Some do clode all the time? Ah, there 572 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: it is. I knew there was a math puzzle in 573 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: there somewhere. Yeah. So since playing that, I play find 574 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: the words right words? Yeah I did that. But I 575 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: love that. I guess being a scientist is something doesn't 576 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to bond you to sit and be quiet, 577 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, so you sit. I can sit for hours 578 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: working in that book, trying to get the right words 579 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: to come out. I love that you you mentioned the 580 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: talks that you give, and I think it's so nice 581 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: that the two of you can, you know, bounce those 582 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: ideas off of each other. I imagine there's so many 583 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: people who want to hear your story, who want to 584 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: hear advice from a woman who really, you know, paved 585 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: a path through history and through these major moments and 586 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, science America in history. What is the kind 587 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,239 Speaker 1: of advice that you give to those people who look 588 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: up to you, to to the girls and the boys 589 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: who hope to someday be like you, and work and STEM. 590 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: We started together, two of us, so like talking to 591 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 1: young people because we were interested in young people. So 592 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: there was one school that we worked at more than 593 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: the other, and we would always go there once a 594 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,399 Speaker 1: year and tell our story, and the teacher will tell 595 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,479 Speaker 1: us how excited the students were about it, and so 596 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, I've been We've been there for many years. 597 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: And now as time has gone by, we prepare for 598 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: a lot of other other things and other places that 599 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: want to hear the story. So we have added many 600 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: more schools to our list. We also started going to 601 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,959 Speaker 1: STEM events, just finding that is such a right play. 602 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: Used to think that you're helping to repair somebody else 603 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: to be their best, be the best that they can be. 604 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: So and it's so wonderful to see a little boy 605 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: or girl whose eyes are bright and you can smile 606 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: at him and said, you know, good luck, do your thing. 607 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: And I always think that you should be passionate about 608 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: something fine, what it is that you really like and 609 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: you really want, And so I like follow that through, 610 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: but you may need to get some mentor or somebody 611 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: to sort of help God to answer some questions that 612 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 1: you have. I also believe in setting goals. Set your goal, 613 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: and then when you finish that one, set another one. Uh, 614 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: and just keep And I think that's that's exactly what 615 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: I did. I think I just kept setting goes from 616 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: year after year after year until finally I finished when 617 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: I thought I wanted to succeed in And Uh, I 618 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: guess just sort of stay committed, stay committed. Uh And 619 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: do you think that? Be happy? ASI? Let don't let 620 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,280 Speaker 1: anybody else persuade you to do something that you're not sure. 621 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 1: That's that's what it is that you wanted to do. 622 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 1: When you think about some of those goals you set 623 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: and following your passion, what are what are some of 624 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: the things you feel most proud of to date? Well, 625 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: I tell you the truth to you. When I started, 626 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: I guess that my dream was to get an education 627 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: and be able to take care of myself and be 628 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: the best I can. And I think I've done that. 629 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: I think I've worked hard as I could all along 630 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: the way and used all my time. WI isn't it. 631 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: I started thinking of my playing some but use it 632 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: all my time, all the time, UM doing the next thing, 633 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: making myself better. For example, when I went to dogging, 634 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: one thing that I could not do at all was 635 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: to speak. Stand up and speak, you know, and you 636 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: can't do work and not be able to tell people 637 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,959 Speaker 1: what you did. So therefore you got you. You gotta 638 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 1: be prepared to speak. So they had a Toast Mistress 639 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 1: class of course mr. Course, I guess uh group at dogging. 640 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: So I decided that I was gonna join that Toast 641 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: mrs group and whether I could talk or not, so 642 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: I did, And not that I came a good speaker 643 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 1: anything afterwards, but I was able to present my work 644 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: after I finished. And Uh, I said, just keep your 645 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: dream and you might follow your dream? Would you want 646 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: to do? Follow that? I love it. Thank you that 647 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: that notion of following a dream feels important. I think 648 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: it's the kind of thing you have to remind yourself 649 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,799 Speaker 1: of every day that to your point, you should set 650 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: a goal and you should look to that thing that 651 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: you want and go after it. And I I actually 652 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,800 Speaker 1: think it's so apropos because the title of your book 653 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: is it began with a dream? Can can you tell 654 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 1: us about the book. Maybe I can tell you a 655 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: little bit about right, and decided right to that book. 656 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: Much later, I had said it done what I thought 657 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. I was saying, I want some money. 658 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: Else to know about this, And I'm sure I didn't 659 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: talk to the family enough. I don't. I don't think 660 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: they knew anything by what I was doing much. So 661 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to leave something so they could pick up, 662 00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, and didn't have to care a whole room 663 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: with jump, but pick up one thing and say this, 664 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: this described my mom or something like that. You know. So, 665 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: and I start working on it, but I wasn't getting 666 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 1: very far, you know. I had a table of contents 667 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how long and right, and I didn't 668 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: like the way that sounds, so I rewrite that. So 669 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: we met Morvin and he decided he would love to 670 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: help me write the book, and so so he joined me. 671 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: So he is the writer, and I'm I'm storytelling. I 672 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: told him everything. I'm so excited about it, and I 673 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: know that everyone who's listening at home is is going 674 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: to get so much from reading about it and again 675 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,120 Speaker 1: hearing your story told against the backdrop of what was 676 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: happening in history just feels so exciting to me. And 677 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: when I think about, you know, as we talked about earlier, 678 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: these incredible landmark eras it you have been a part 679 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: of and and lived through, I'm so curious what is 680 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: your perspective on you know, this last year in particular, 681 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: I mean to see the entire globe take to the 682 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: streets in protest and and in in support for progress 683 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: and to talk about equity. You know, to see people 684 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: in countries all over the earth which you modeled, chanting 685 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: black lives matter and demanding social change and saying this, 686 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: this has to be the generation that that does something 687 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,280 Speaker 1: about this. You know, people quoting Dr King, who's whose 688 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: speeches you witnessed in real time? Does this moment feel immense? 689 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: What is it like for you to watch all of this? Yes, 690 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: it's really It really feels deeply in palm like you 691 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,919 Speaker 1: need to think deeply. But then after that, you got 692 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,959 Speaker 1: to think about the people who are facing one way 693 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: and the other ones facing the other way and neither 694 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: understanding each other. I think the worst thing that I 695 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: see in there is the truth is getting all that 696 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:21,720 Speaker 1: stuff in there, You got to talk about truth and 697 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: U you can't just talk words and talk google of 698 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 1: God something and then expect somebody to agree with you 699 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: and all. So like we as a people need to 700 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: just understand what what life is really all all about, 701 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: and the and the rights and wrongs and and the 702 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: fact that people, all people are human. Uh, they have 703 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: the same feelings and all that they do. And also 704 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:54,560 Speaker 1: it's so it's so involved, and it's so frightening too. Yeah, 705 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: it's it's been a pretty bad time for me. It 706 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: just sitting and thinking how things have turned from the 707 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: way I thought they were earlier. I'm not happy about it, 708 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: but I'm trying to think more intelligently. My my, my 709 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 1: real hope. You know, as as a person who's studied, 710 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: you know, the history that, as I mentioned, you got 711 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: to witness and and who wants to see changes that. 712 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: To your point, so much of what we believed was 713 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: progressing and then we kind of had this, you know this, 714 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: It was like a veil got lifted, and you see 715 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: how people have been still struggling in so many communities 716 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,240 Speaker 1: around the world and especially around this country. My hope 717 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 1: is that we can take the ideals, you know, the 718 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: speeches everybody loves to quote and and the signs of 719 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: progress and say these need to be true everywhere. These 720 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,120 Speaker 1: words need to matter in policy, not just an idea. 721 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 1: And if one community has helped to solve um issues 722 00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: of equity or poverty, or or you know, places where 723 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: children are struggling and they've made it better, my my 724 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 1: hope is that we can say if we can do 725 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: it in one place, we need to do it in 726 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: every place. And I I sure do hope that that 727 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:27,279 Speaker 1: is um the result of the tumult because I think 728 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: the tumultuousness comes from people saying, we can't keep asking. 729 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: We want to see you all doing. And I hope 730 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: we get to doing because you've certainly been a do 731 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: or your whole life. I am always inspired by the doers, 732 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,879 Speaker 1: and I hope we can carry on, you know, those 733 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: of us who are who are out there trying to 734 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,400 Speaker 1: get the work done. Now. I hope we can carry 735 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: on that legacy of getting it done. Thank you, Thank you. 736 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: M I would love to ask you my very favorite question, Gladys. 737 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: It's the thing I ask everyone who comes on the show, 738 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,319 Speaker 1: because I, like I said, I could pick your brain 739 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: all day, but I'm going to make sure I let 740 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: you in Caroline, get to your afternoon. Um. The show 741 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: is called work in progress because there's so many people 742 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,359 Speaker 1: just like you who I've met, who have done these 743 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: incredibly inspiring things. And from the outside, so many of 744 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: us look at people like you and say, Wow, they've 745 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,719 Speaker 1: done it, They've achieved it, they've figured it out, they 746 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 1: did the thing. And every time I have a conversation 747 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: with someone who I think has done everything, they say, well, 748 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 1: there's this other thing I'm still working on. And I'm 749 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: always so amazed by it because I realized that we 750 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 1: all really are, each of us a work in progress. 751 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: And and I wonder for you, sitting in in your 752 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 1: home in Virginia today, looking at your life and having 753 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,959 Speaker 1: just written this book, having achieved so much and given 754 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,320 Speaker 1: us so much, you know, science, typically and historically, what 755 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: still feels like a work in progress in your life? 756 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: I think that Uh. I have done a lot and 757 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,800 Speaker 1: tried to do a lot to encourage younger people, UH 758 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: to be the best and what what it is that 759 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:23,319 Speaker 1: they have, whatever it is, and UH, I see like 760 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 1: more and more of a need for that kind of 761 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: thinking to bring people up to a level where they 762 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:35,200 Speaker 1: can reason and rationalize thinking and ideas and things that 763 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: need to be considered when we are making decisions and 764 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 1: sometimes um which remember just I want by seeing a 765 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,600 Speaker 1: little bit of a girl, and I just like the 766 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,280 Speaker 1: smile saying you know, I have you in my mind, 767 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: I have you in my heart, and I have you 768 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: something that I there's a special place that I have 769 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: a little girls and boys, and so I think maybe 770 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,279 Speaker 1: what I would like to do is something like continue 771 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: along that line of things thinking that we've been doing. 772 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:15,800 Speaker 1: And we saw her go to stem activities and participated 773 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: skim stem activities at our museum and a local schools 774 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: just to see what they're doing in the math and 775 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,919 Speaker 1: sciences and so forth that have trained people or lead 776 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,759 Speaker 1: them into a direction that they want to be in 777 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 1: and don't know how to get in it. I just 778 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: like to do more of the same. I think I 779 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,279 Speaker 1: love that you were explaining that idea of pointing people 780 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: in the right direction, especially folks in school. And the 781 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 1: image that came to mind was you building a doorway. 782 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,120 Speaker 1: I feel like you have you have not only open 783 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,640 Speaker 1: doorways for people, I really feel like you've helped to 784 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: build them. So thank you, so much, thank you. It's 785 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 1: been such an honor to talk to you today. I 786 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,319 Speaker 1: can't tell you how much I appreciate you coming on 787 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: the show. And I'm so excited for all of our 788 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,120 Speaker 1: listeners to pick up your book, and I can't wait 789 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: to hear what you decide to do next. I have 790 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: a feeling there's much more to come. Thank you all right. 791 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me on today