WEBVTT - Surrogate Mom Refuses Abortion, Gives Birth, And Now Wants Custody

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<v Speaker 1>Folks, it is Saturday, August fifteenth, and a surrogate from

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<v Speaker 1>Alaska traveled to Texas to have a baby for a

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<v Speaker 1>couple that lives in California. Here's the thing, the couple

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<v Speaker 1>in California did not want her to have the baby.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you keeping up here? Because this has now set

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<v Speaker 1>off a multi state maga mess And with that, welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. I say,

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<v Speaker 1>Maggie went with mess. But the fact of the matter

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<v Speaker 1>is this is a family, personal, and even legal dispute

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<v Speaker 1>that is turning into now a major political football.

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<v Speaker 2>Even you could say without a doubt, without a doubt,

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<v Speaker 2>this is now pitted anti abortion activists against pro abortion rights. Folks,

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<v Speaker 2>you've got surrogacy issues. All sorts of people have taken side,

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<v Speaker 2>including the Attorney General of the state of Texas, but

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<v Speaker 2>courts are involved. And now this sarrogate, McKenna West, as

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, from Alaska, wants custody of the baby boy

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<v Speaker 2>she gave birth to, who, by all accounts, was never

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<v Speaker 2>meant to be born in the first place.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's go with that. Robes, coupland California. Let's start

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<v Speaker 1>from the very basics couple in California want to have

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<v Speaker 1>a baby. They found a Saraga. She's in Alaska, she

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<v Speaker 1>is pregnant, she's carrying child, but twenty weeks into it,

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<v Speaker 1>to have right robes, they found a severe birth defect,

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<v Speaker 1>a heart defect. The family decides, the couple decides, we

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<v Speaker 1>would like to terminate this pregnancy. The saragate says, no,

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<v Speaker 1>that sets off a legal mess. Robes in here we.

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<v Speaker 2>Are exactly and so that's Sarahgate again. McKenna West decided

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<v Speaker 2>to flee to Texas because she said she felt like

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<v Speaker 2>she could get better protection there. Texas has some of

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<v Speaker 2>the strictest abortion laws in the country, meaning if you

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<v Speaker 2>have been raped in cases of rape and incest, you

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<v Speaker 2>still have to have the baby. So that was the

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<v Speaker 2>state she chose to flee to, and she did receive

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<v Speaker 2>help from some anti abortion groups in choosing where she

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<v Speaker 2>went and how she got there. But yeah, the parents

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<v Speaker 2>found out that their baby was diagnosed with hypoplastic left

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<v Speaker 2>heart syndrome. It's a life threatening condition. It requires I believe,

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<v Speaker 2>three surgeries, and yes it can be fatal. But basically

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<v Speaker 2>the left side of this baby's heart didn't develop. It

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<v Speaker 2>restricts blood flow, and unless you have open heart surgery

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<v Speaker 2>and again two other surgeries, the baby will die.

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<v Speaker 1>There is no guarantee this of this baby's survival and

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<v Speaker 1>even if so, what life it'll have after that. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the reality of the situation. The reality is, though Rope,

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<v Speaker 1>this no other way to say it. That is not

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<v Speaker 1>her baby.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct.

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<v Speaker 1>She has no legal rights to that baby as of

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<v Speaker 1>this moment.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, in fact, and she, by the way, the couple

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<v Speaker 2>was able to obtain a temporary restraining order against the

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<v Speaker 2>surrogate mother, So she has not been able to hold

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<v Speaker 2>the baby. She has not even been able to see

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<v Speaker 2>the baby, and certainly she has no rights to what

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<v Speaker 2>happens to that baby. Now. However, the parents were restricted

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<v Speaker 2>for some of their rights as well, because when she

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<v Speaker 2>traveled from Alaska to Texas, the Texas Attorney General Ken

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<v Speaker 2>Paxton got involved. He had a court order to ensure

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<v Speaker 2>that the unborn baby would receive life saving medical treatment

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<v Speaker 2>over any objections from the biological parents.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you see the mess. Who has the rights

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<v Speaker 1>to the child, Not the woman who just birthed it,

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<v Speaker 1>not the parents who's that's their DNA.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, the state of Texas. Yes, that is their DNA.

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<v Speaker 1>So now the state of Texas is saying they have

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<v Speaker 1>the right to make decisions about this child. Yes, Robes,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a mess.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and yes, Paxton said, baby Gabriel deserves a chance

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<v Speaker 2>at life and I will not allow anyone to unlawfully

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<v Speaker 2>deny him medically necessary care. And I say baby Gabriel

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<v Speaker 2>because that is the name that Paxton gave this child.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the name that this child is now being referred

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<v Speaker 2>to by anti abortion Gabriel the Angel.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh, they just decided to name that.

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<v Speaker 2>They decided to name the baby that the biological family

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<v Speaker 2>has now named the baby Roomy and says the baby's

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<v Speaker 2>name is not Gabriel, it is Roomy. But literally, if

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<v Speaker 2>you go look up the story, you will see the

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<v Speaker 2>name interchanged in how folks are reporting on this story.

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<v Speaker 1>What was Gabriel's What was Gabriel's thing with the what

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<v Speaker 1>was Gabriel's backstory? The Angel I'm trying to remember, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not the fallen Angel though, right, who's the fallen Angel?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the fallen Angel was I'm so bad, don't get

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<v Speaker 2>me onto this, but you're putting me on the spot.

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<v Speaker 2>But the angel Gabriel is a heavenly messenger, and his

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<v Speaker 2>name means God is my strength or God's Hero. He

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<v Speaker 2>appears in the Bible explaining visions to Daniel announcing the

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<v Speaker 2>birth of John the Baptist and Jesus.

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<v Speaker 1>So they have just decided to call the very Gabriel.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the one who told the virgin Mary that she

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<v Speaker 2>would give birth to Jesus. She's the that angel told

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<v Speaker 2>Mary that she had just had an immaculate conception. So

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<v Speaker 2>it is about a miracle baby, so to speak, the

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<v Speaker 2>miracle baby being Jesus. Gabriel announced that the miracle of

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<v Speaker 2>Jesus would actually exist. And so yes, they named this

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<v Speaker 2>baby Gabriel.

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<v Speaker 1>So just like now Gabriel setting off a whole mess

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<v Speaker 1>of controversy. Has Gabriel not and what are we saying?

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<v Speaker 1>So wasn't Lucifer the name?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I want to say, isn't that the devil? Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>battled Lucifer. Yes, Lucifer was an angel.

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<v Speaker 1>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>We got to get back to some we're getting held

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<v Speaker 2>a tak now by so many people who just heard

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<v Speaker 2>that and thought, y'all are crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't remember Gabriel, but Lucifer obviously was the guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, Anyway, here we are. So here's what

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<v Speaker 2>we know about baby. Let's call the baby Roomy. That

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<v Speaker 2>is the child's actual name. Roomy is now under medical

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<v Speaker 2>care at a Texas facility in Dallas, I believe, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's being evaluated right now. And look, it's so interesting

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<v Speaker 2>when you hear what the biological parents are saying now

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<v Speaker 2>through their attorney. They are claiming that yes, they did

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<v Speaker 2>want her to terminate the pregnancy, but then once she

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<v Speaker 2>fled and once she went to Texas, they wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>then have the baby born in California, and they agreed

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<v Speaker 2>to have these life saving surgeries take place. So they

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<v Speaker 2>backed off of this idea that the baby shouldn't be born.

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<v Speaker 2>And at a certain point it wasn't possible. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>this was found. This heart condition was found in twenty weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>A baby is can survive outside of the uterus live

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<v Speaker 2>around twenty four weeks unilatterally and generally speaking, so there

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't a lot of time. But here is what they

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<v Speaker 2>have said through their attorney. Our client's focus at this

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<v Speaker 2>time is ensuring that their baby receives the medical care

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<v Speaker 2>that he vitally needs and that they, as his parents,

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<v Speaker 2>are able to spend every precious moment they can with him. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>they accuse the Attorney General and the surrogate of turning

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<v Speaker 2>what they call a family tragedy into political theater. And look,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's important to point out August eleventh, or

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<v Speaker 2>excuse me, August twelfth, is when the baby was born.

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<v Speaker 2>But in July they actually filed court documents and acknowledged

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<v Speaker 2>and accepted and wanted to provide medical treatment for their babies.

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<v Speaker 2>So they weren't still pushing for terminating the child. So

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<v Speaker 2>they said, after heartbreaking this is how they described what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>After heartbreaking consultations with medical providers and their own research

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<v Speaker 2>about suffering and the quality of life these types of

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<v Speaker 2>babies endure, they made the difficult decision to terminate the pregnancy.

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<v Speaker 2>It is undisputed that West initially agreed, and that she

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<v Speaker 2>herself made the initial appointment. They're talking about an abortion.

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<v Speaker 2>She then changed youdilaterally changed her mind, cut off all

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<v Speaker 2>contact with the birth parents, withdrew medical releases allowing the

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<v Speaker 2>birth parents to have contact with all medical providers. So

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<v Speaker 2>they were seeking to have West give birth to their

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<v Speaker 2>son in California, not in Texas, but they did not

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<v Speaker 2>they were not able to do that. That's kind of wild.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, okay, she'd be charged with a crime. This is

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<v Speaker 1>their child has been kidnapped and decisions are being made

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<v Speaker 1>for their child that they have legal rights to by

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<v Speaker 1>other people, including the State of Texas. They don't have

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<v Speaker 1>a right to their child right.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, Well they do right now. They are in custody

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<v Speaker 2>physical custody of their child.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm saying, but Texas had the right to say

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<v Speaker 1>this and that.

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<v Speaker 2>What But Texas has the right to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>that child is getting specific life saving surgery.

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<v Speaker 1>Not whatever the family decides for the child. Are medical

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<v Speaker 1>decisions being made for this child by the state of

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<v Speaker 1>Texas and a Senate candidate in Ken Paxton.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, initially. But here's the deal. The parents do want

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<v Speaker 2>these same life saving surgeries now to take place. They

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<v Speaker 2>just want them to take place in California. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>at this point, it's happening in Texas. But they're trying.

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<v Speaker 2>We can get into some of the legal battles that

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<v Speaker 2>are going on, because there are multiple ones, not just

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<v Speaker 2>on who has custody of the child, but also where

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<v Speaker 2>this child can be taken to have these surgeries.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is there a discussion. There are parents, there are parents,

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<v Speaker 1>oh boy. And so that's she probably knew she'd be

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<v Speaker 1>going to the right place for such a fight. And

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<v Speaker 1>she's now in the hands of the right guy who

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<v Speaker 1>needs help in a Senate campaign exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And he knows his audience, he knows his voters. And

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of the Sarah Gate, McKenna west right. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>just for the record, she has been denied any contact

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<v Speaker 2>with the child. She is trying to get custody of

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<v Speaker 2>the child. That is going to be a massive, uphill

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<v Speaker 2>battle that she almost certainly will not win. But here's

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<v Speaker 2>the deal. This is what her attorney said. We are

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<v Speaker 2>working on challenging the orders of parentage because we think

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<v Speaker 2>that Texas law makes a woman who gives birth to

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<v Speaker 2>a child the mother of the child. That is doing

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<v Speaker 2>their legal argument. And this woman has the help of

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<v Speaker 2>so an anti abortion Christian organization called the Alliance Defending

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<v Speaker 2>Freedom is helping her seek parental custody. So they are

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<v Speaker 2>providing her the funds for her legal counsel to try

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<v Speaker 2>and get custody of this child. And she also had

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<v Speaker 2>another anti abortion group, Live Action out of Virginia, pay

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<v Speaker 2>for her and her other two children to travel from

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<v Speaker 2>Alaska to Texas and to be set up in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>She is being funded, She is being funded.

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<v Speaker 1>She is being used.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, she's a pawn.

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<v Speaker 1>She is wrote you said there's a Texas law. This

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<v Speaker 1>is not what I've heard of before that if the

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<v Speaker 1>person who ever gives birth too said child. So surrogacy

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<v Speaker 1>is a non event in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's going to stand. This is what

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<v Speaker 2>their interpretation of what parentage means in Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>Was that Texas or the group this is to her attorney.

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<v Speaker 2>Her attorney is claiming that.

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<v Speaker 1>So Texas has a birthright motherhood if you will.

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<v Speaker 2>Ain't that funny?

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<v Speaker 1>Who of this up?

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<v Speaker 2>It's But certainly this is obviously making massive headlines, Yes

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<v Speaker 2>for the abortion rights aspect of it, but in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the parental rights aspect of it, and just your

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<v Speaker 2>your right to determine how your child is treated, where

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<v Speaker 2>they are treated, who treats them, what, what surgeries you'll allow,

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<v Speaker 2>Like this is insane, this and this has so many implications.

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<v Speaker 2>Sarrogacy is a huge industry in this country, and this situation,

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<v Speaker 2>although rare, absolutely could set precedence. So when we come back,

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna tell you what is next in the legal

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<v Speaker 2>battle and what's up with all of these sarrogacy laws.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. We are talking

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<v Speaker 2>about this wild case. And I would normally say out

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<v Speaker 2>of Texas, and I guess that's where it's happening right now.

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<v Speaker 2>But you've got multiple states involved, Alaska, Texas, California, and

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<v Speaker 2>all of them have varying sarrogacy laws. And that's part

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<v Speaker 2>of the confusing part of this, just because saragacy laws

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<v Speaker 2>vary from state to state.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, is there any sarrogacy law that gives rights to

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<v Speaker 1>the baby to the surrogate?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, almost every I would say almost. I have not

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<v Speaker 2>seen one legal expert who believes that for one second

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<v Speaker 2>this sarrogate is going to have any legal rights to

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<v Speaker 2>this child period. I can't imagine a scenario in which

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<v Speaker 2>that would be possible. You've got parents whose biology their DNA,

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 2>that is their physically biologically, that is their child. The

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.240
<v Speaker 2>question is have I don't know of a case where

0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 2>you've had parents they said, yes, it's happened. Obviously, parents

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.480
<v Speaker 2>have wanted or needed to terminate a pregnancy that is

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.120
<v Speaker 2>in a saragate's body. But there are Usually they're almost

0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.480
<v Speaker 2>in every case there are, they agree that both parties agree.

0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.960
<v Speaker 2>They don't have a Sarahgate going rogue and saying I

0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>want to keep the baby and then going across state lines.

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 1>But it's also in the contract. These things are laid out.

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>All decisions having to do with the medical decisions having

0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.880
<v Speaker 1>to do with that child, and yes, having to do

0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 1>with that Sarahgate's body belong to the parents. This is

0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>plain as day, And yes, I think specific language robes

0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 1>has to address this. If the parents make that decision

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 1>that the pregnancy needs to be terminated for whatever reason,

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:09.800
<v Speaker 1>if Seraha doesn't like that, then don't have to agree

0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.360
<v Speaker 1>to that ahead of time. I'm saying in the contract correct.

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:17.840
<v Speaker 1>But I don't see anywhere anybody suggesting that the parents

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 1>did anything wrong or they were not well within their

0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 1>rights at every step here.

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 2>But of course you have folks who are anti abortion,

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.680
<v Speaker 2>who believe that this child wouldn't even exist if the

0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 2>parents had their way, and because of that, they shouldn't

0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 2>have any right to this child because they didn't want

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:38.160
<v Speaker 2>the child in the first place.

0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:39.880
<v Speaker 1>So you gave up the rights to the child when

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 1>you decided you wanted the pregnancy to end. So if

0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.720
<v Speaker 1>she was carrying that child, this is supposed to be

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 1>the same thing. If that mom in California was pregnant

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 1>and found.

0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Out, she would have terminated her.

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 1>She wanted to terminate. By this same logic, then robes

0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>could a state step in and say, no, you can't,

0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.840
<v Speaker 1>we'll take the baby off your hands. That is what

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.280
<v Speaker 1>they're saying, Babe, Is that Okay, you don't want it,

0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.480
<v Speaker 1>so we'll take it. Would you be saying that if

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the woman everybody at any abortion clinic is doing that

0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 1>and say, Okay, you don't want to have the baby,

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>we'll take them all. We'll take them. We'll take them,

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>we'll take That's just it doesn't work that way. I

0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:18.920
<v Speaker 1>don't know why people are thinking it works that way

0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.680
<v Speaker 1>this time. It's just it's too bad. I would love

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 1>those parents out in California. I mean, there was a

0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 1>reason they needed to go surrogacy. I mean, what their

0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 1>journey has been, who knows who wonders, But I think

0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.240
<v Speaker 1>and I guess I understand Rose, But I don't think

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:38.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of attention or sympathy has been has gone

0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 1>the way of the parents in this there being deemed

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 1>the monsters.

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and can you imagine what they are receiving in

0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>terms of reaction from folks in Texas and around the

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 2>country who don't think that abortion should be legal for

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 2>whatever reason. And so yeah, we're talking about Nashene Gilker

0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>and Omar Ahmed. So those are the parents out of California.

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.760
<v Speaker 2>And there is a hearing that is on the books.

0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.920
<v Speaker 2>It is scheduled for August twenty fifth at one pm.

0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>And here's what this hearing is going to address whether

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 2>the biological parents acted in the child's best interests when

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 2>making medical decisions. And they're going to address whether the

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 2>child is healthy enough to be transported to California because

0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:21.640
<v Speaker 2>that's what the parents want.

0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 1>What was the first question again, they're going to They're.

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Going to address whether the biological parents acted in the

0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.320
<v Speaker 2>child's best interest when they made medical decisions. So look,

0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.960
<v Speaker 2>this is you know, it's being brought by the sarrogate

0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 2>who wants to be able to intervene and make medical

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.640
<v Speaker 2>decisions for the baby. She wants to be basically the

0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>baby's guardian, and she wants to make the medical decision.

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>It's not your baby. Like go through every parent in

0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 1>the state of Texas, it's what we're talking about. Whatever

0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>decisions they're making, you don't like them, Okay, that sucks.

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.240
<v Speaker 1>See it all the time. I don't intervene, you don't

0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.600
<v Speaker 1>have the right. Is that all we're talking about? Roaches? Yep,

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 1>we don't like it. Sounds it's simple when you say

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.840
<v Speaker 1>it that way. Every parent listening. If the State of

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>Texas or some rando off the street decides that you're

0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 1>not giving the right type of care to your child,

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>I know better, and I'm gonna take you to court

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.040
<v Speaker 1>over it is what we're talking about here. I guess

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>robe there's some different because she did carry the child,

0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 1>but it doesn't change law. It changed people look.

0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.360
<v Speaker 2>At her as saving his life. That's how they look

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.119
<v Speaker 2>at her. And the other interesting thing too, is just

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.479
<v Speaker 2>should be noted the parents are not trying to not

0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 2>give their son these surgeries. The parents are not saying,

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 2>let him die, I'm not going to give him a

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 2>surgery to save his life. They are not saying that.

0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:49.440
<v Speaker 2>They are absolutely wanting and trying to save his life now.

0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.359
<v Speaker 2>So they're not at odds about that. They just want

0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.920
<v Speaker 2>the care to happen in where the place where they live,

0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 2>which is Los Angeles.

0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>So you're saying, let us take our baby and go home. Yes,

0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:03.760
<v Speaker 1>And that's the saying no, you can't and.

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Have doctors in our home state perform these surgeries.

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.679
<v Speaker 1>This is a mess of a story. And again, Saraha say,

0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.760
<v Speaker 1>is a very big deal and it is meaningful to

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 1>so many and necessary for so many people in this country. Robes,

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.160
<v Speaker 1>we have very close people to us who have done

0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 1>this for their own reasons. And it's just I hate

0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.120
<v Speaker 1>if this turns people off from it, if this now

0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.399
<v Speaker 1>changes the conversation around it. The trajectory of it is

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.080
<v Speaker 1>just an important tool, and this is an unfortunate situation

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.439
<v Speaker 1>that's now being used in a political way. That's it

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.440
<v Speaker 1>should be private family.

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Matter, absolutely, And I do think the silver lining here

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.840
<v Speaker 2>is that maybe people will get a little bit more

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 2>careful in terms of the contract and just knowing ahead

0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 2>of time, having this conversation ahead of time, after seeing

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.520
<v Speaker 2>what played out here and is playing out here nashally,

0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe this will have more meaningful conversations ahead of time

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 2>so that there are clear lines about what can or

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 2>should happen given a different set of circumstances. But yes,

0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 2>in most cases, and we know you pointed out friends

0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:14.520
<v Speaker 2>of ours. Beautiful surrogacy stories bring tears to your eyes. Beautiful, amazing, generous,

0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:20.240
<v Speaker 2>phenomenal women out there who are willing to house these

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 2>children and grow these children so that families who can't

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.280
<v Speaker 2>do it on their own get blessed with children. I mean,

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 2>it's almost always just stories of hope and inspiration, So

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.199
<v Speaker 2>it's tough to have an ugly one out here, but

0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:35.200
<v Speaker 2>maybe it will provide clarity for folks going forward and

0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.040
<v Speaker 2>without everyone, we always appreciate you listening to us. I'm

0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Amy Roboch alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk so