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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Donald Trumps as he never swore

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Speaker 1: an oath to protect the Constitution.

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Speaker 2: What we have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Representative Seantel Brown tells us about what she sees in

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Speaker 1: her district in Ohio.

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Speaker 2: Then we'll talk to Survival.

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Speaker 1: Of the Richest author and close personal friend of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: Doug Rushkoff about Elon Musk's latest fuckory along with the

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Speaker 1: looming threat of AI. But first we have Democratic strategist

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Speaker 1: James Garvell.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, James Carvel.

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Speaker 3: I'm always glad to be back.

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Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you, and I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you, so you have done this many times, say

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Speaker 1: you are Biden's campaign manager. Right now, what are you

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Speaker 1: going to do now you have a year? Tell me

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Speaker 1: how you get working class people back into the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party and bring back Hispanics and African Americans.

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Speaker 2: No pressure go.

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Speaker 4: First of all, we we just got to do gotta.

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Speaker 3: With white working class.

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Speaker 4: It's not about it.

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Speaker 2: But what do you think the white working class wants.

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Speaker 4: A lot of the lord. We can't give them that's

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Speaker 4: health adults or race. Not all of them, but a

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Speaker 4: lot just can't give them. Sorry, you know, we're not

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Speaker 4: gonna shoot people of that kind of stuff, so it's

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Speaker 4: just not gonna have but we can certainly cut the margins.

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Speaker 4: We have horrific problems with black turnout. I can you

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Speaker 4: tell you how bad they are. And we also have

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Speaker 4: the problems with you front. Part of it is going

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Speaker 4: to be, you know, making the top continue to make

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Speaker 4: him this horrible a deals but people already know horrible.

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Speaker 4: He is asked to see Bobby Kennedy's mental health records,

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Speaker 4: which should be a minimum because right now he's getting

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Speaker 4: a lot of votes. I mean a lot of people

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Speaker 4: are saying they get to vote for it because they

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Speaker 4: you know, why not be on like Biden on a

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Speaker 4: like pump and you know RFA sewn or remember something

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Speaker 4: about that guy so which pleads for reached your mental

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Speaker 4: health rate? And if you know you ever been cited

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Speaker 4: for HEROLD, I would ask the questions and you get

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Speaker 4: into a fifth way, You're great to ask what and

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Speaker 4: you'd have to run a pretty aggressive youth engagent program

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Speaker 4: because the youth engagement in the black engagement in not very.

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Speaker 5: Good in some ways.

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Speaker 1: I think about Bill Clinton because Clinton also struggled with

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Speaker 1: the youth vote the second time around.

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Speaker 4: Right, it's trouble. I mean, it should be the youth

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Speaker 4: share thirty and on there should be about seventeen. If

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Speaker 4: you fall below that, it really hurts because it's not

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Speaker 4: just that the young published break for you.

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Speaker 3: They also have to come out vote.

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Speaker 4: So let's just say the youth share is supposed to

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Speaker 4: be seventeen, you get sixty two, Well, get the share

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Speaker 4: go fifteen. Not only do not get sixty two or seventeen,

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Speaker 4: you get sixty to fifteen. But conversely, the over thirty

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Speaker 4: shifts have two flights, which you're not going to do

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Speaker 4: it well. I was looking at the results of the

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Speaker 4: Ohio Abortion Book, and it was staggering how every time

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Speaker 4: you went up the age demographic level, the pro choice

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Speaker 4: folk went down, and I mean it was noticeable. And

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Speaker 4: if you don't get you young voters are just a critical, critical,

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Speaker 4: critical part of the Democratic coalition, and they just don't

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Speaker 4: have to stand a good sentence. They have to stand

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Speaker 4: a really good engagement for and the old top voters

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Speaker 4: they're engaged. They want to burn the god Nail compute Hey,

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Speaker 4: they got garrisene in the package out. They're ready to go.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about that for a second.

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Speaker 1: Youth engagement it's about sort of registering voters, or it's

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Speaker 1: about getting like. I think about student dead a lot,

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Speaker 1: because that's something that I know young voters really care about, right.

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Speaker 4: But the people pre said young voters that are in

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Speaker 4: that really care about it.

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Speaker 5: But most a lot of young people.

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Speaker 4: Go out of college. They go two old people that

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Speaker 4: go to day community college and go to the entire

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Speaker 4: I believe right now that I mean, you're right, you

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Speaker 4: have the debt, you really care about it. Think of

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Speaker 4: how many young folds of minimum age works are largely involved.

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Speaker 4: I mean style, twenty two year old working in tar

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Speaker 4: shop in Atlanta. He got a lot more shit on

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Speaker 4: his mind and it's been student debt. But it gets

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Speaker 4: one of these things. And what we think because the

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Speaker 4: yellow people we know care about student that the old

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Speaker 4: people we know care about common issues.

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Speaker 3: And you know, because now.

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Speaker 4: I'll come home from cotwoit with all on that friends

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Speaker 4: and we say, gee, I know to you. I got

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Speaker 4: a twenty three year old daughter that lives in Chelsea

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Speaker 4: and Manhattan. Well, the people that she hangs out would

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Speaker 4: are not reflected of other twenty four year olds around

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Speaker 4: the country. They're not all clubbing. When you do it politics,

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Speaker 4: you got to be careful not to take your own

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Speaker 4: experience and apply to everyone else. If every you know

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Speaker 4: clubbing twenty four year old Manhattan is twenty four and

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Speaker 4: a trying to take care of it, what.

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Speaker 2: Do you think about the idea of just getting Biden

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Speaker 2: out there more?

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Speaker 1: A lot of times the criticism I've heard is that

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Speaker 1: he's sort of too cloistered and they're too careful with him.

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Speaker 4: How I say this because I'm just turned seventy nine.

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Speaker 4: I think he's doing all he can do. I think

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Speaker 4: you got so much gas in that tank, and he's

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Speaker 4: got a pretty good bit on his on his plate anyway,

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Speaker 4: But have him go out.

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Speaker 2: There and do you want just sort of more campaigning.

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Speaker 4: It's following a LOGI has call got people in more

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Speaker 4: trouble than anything I can think of.

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Speaker 6: It.

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Speaker 4: It goes like this, something must be done, this is something, ergo,

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Speaker 4: let's do this. Oh, then you end up in a

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Speaker 4: rock show. Something be done. But not every something you

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Speaker 4: say cause a lot more Greek than others. But and

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you you said, well, I need

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Speaker 4: to put by An out there more. I to do

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Speaker 4: more doing one have a town hall voter, uh, Virginia

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Speaker 4: Community College, all right, not in a union hall.

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Speaker 3: I don't know right now.

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Speaker 4: The situation is is garis.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of crutch for example, like I

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Speaker 1: just want to go back to the off off your election.

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Speaker 1: In my mind, I was pretty sure that young Kin

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Speaker 1: was going to be able to flip the House of

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Speaker 1: Delegates because or the state Senate one was Republican, because

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Speaker 1: it felt to me like Young Cain was offering a

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Speaker 1: sort of more moderate style of trump Ism. What happened

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Speaker 1: instead was that Democrats were able to flip the other

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Speaker 1: state house, and now Youngkin has even less power. Democrats

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Speaker 1: really did overperform again. So I'm just wondering how much

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Speaker 1: you think that relates to the current situation.

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Speaker 6: So let's let'st it is undeniably true that Democrats have

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Speaker 6: either won or oh before in every elections to Kansas

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Speaker 6: Night if you remember the Kansas represented which is in

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Speaker 6: August twenty twenty two. Actually the only answer don't right

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Speaker 6: to go to that campaign. Since then, we've won and

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Speaker 6: overperformed in every election.

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Speaker 3: That's the denial.

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Speaker 6: We actually got a higher present Mississippi and any Democrats

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Speaker 6: got in missispydo very.

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Speaker 3: Very close to the Democrats that didn't stake part a chair.

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Speaker 6: Second looks worth forty years now you think one person

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Speaker 6: more than any other, and that's more more young and

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Speaker 6: was going to use tests. You know, I'm gonna hate

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Speaker 6: the bion asked paper report and heat raised and slow body.

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Speaker 6: And if he won, he kept the thousand and wouldn't

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Speaker 6: send it. He was going to go to Moine the

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Speaker 6: concert new and then the United States done to Mark

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Speaker 6: Walk for Government of Virginia, got on the phone and

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Speaker 6: did what he had to do and raised a bunch

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Speaker 6: of money. And the Democrats ran a very smart companigne.

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Speaker 6: Much of it was talking about keeping revolt the bout

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Speaker 6: of your bedroom in your library, and.

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Speaker 3: We ran foot camp.

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Speaker 7: We have club streets.

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Speaker 3: Does this have a art of complication for Biden?

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Speaker 7: Truck community Colonel West.

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Speaker 3: Joe ste right in.

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Speaker 6: You know, but it's undeniable that we're running elections right now,

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Speaker 6: the kind of winning everywhere Sonatics come in. I mean,

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Speaker 6: Yack is so nakedly transparent. David Will for the Litcharlo.

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Speaker 6: You know, I can't talk about but we get in.

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Speaker 6: Well really yet in the home now.

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Speaker 7: He said, Well, they caught up with the fifteen week

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Speaker 7: ban with exceptions, by the way, is approved by the

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Speaker 7: NASH No white lifeple.

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Speaker 3: They're trying to surrender us.

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Speaker 7: No one will take their white flag. The public is

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Speaker 7: like spoo you. We don't trust you.

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Speaker 6: You don't bleed this. You're tied to you try to

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Speaker 6: get you're trying to burn out books. You're trying to

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Speaker 6: get in our betrouts, trying to make every preachers make

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Speaker 6: decisions about our lives. If we feel like when Toddlin

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Speaker 6: and then you get caught and you say about, well

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Speaker 6: figure something out. No, people are not that stupid sicklet

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Speaker 6: in all the Virginia I mean where we worked with

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Speaker 6: some pretty pretty engaged voters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it sounds like your anxiety is And I

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Speaker 1: think these are really relevant and important and certainly these

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Speaker 1: really are things that can be addressed a little less

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Speaker 1: than a year to the election. But youth voters, youth turnout,

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Speaker 1: and third party right in.

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Speaker 6: Black turnout, I mean black turnout out, the kind of

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Speaker 6: zoop form invidia what almost non existent.

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Speaker 7: This has been true everywhere for some reason.

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Speaker 6: And I do not know why you can't get people

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Speaker 6: talk about it. They think it's racist to say we

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Speaker 6: we have a troubled with black crowd. It's just the opposite,

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Speaker 6: which yet we had elections.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Biden has done something to alienate

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Speaker 1: black voters.

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Speaker 6: I can't imagine any precedent with a better record for

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Speaker 6: Black America to Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: And if you can't convince.

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Speaker 6: Your hawks in to grow unemployment differential between black and

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Speaker 6: white unemployment.

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Speaker 7: The appointments he may he's made.

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Speaker 3: Just what Joe what Joe Biden's heart is right? I

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Speaker 3: said he was the biggest.

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Speaker 6: Ill plunder mard thatf we had a stunning rugery. No

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Speaker 6: one's had a better record than Joe Biden and no

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Speaker 6: one is getting the worse.

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Speaker 2: Oh, do you think it's that he doesn't have enough

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Speaker 2: black surrogate out on the trail?

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Speaker 3: I got black sargus everywhere.

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Speaker 7: You have black captain all right to have any more.

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Speaker 7: And by the way, we had bad black turn out

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Speaker 7: with both Warnock and Station at the.

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Speaker 3: Ballot in the first round of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 6: We had bad black turnout with sharing b sail the

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Speaker 6: ballot in North Carolina we had bad turnout, black turnout,

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Speaker 6: and Spain it bad black turnout in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 7: I got these consultants called, he said, ship, look it.

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Speaker 7: You know what do we do?

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Speaker 6: And I'm like, I'm trying to think with them, and

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Speaker 6: you know, come up with ideas and throw spaghetti up

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Speaker 6: against the wall. And right now is sticking.

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Speaker 2: You have no sense of what it is.

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Speaker 3: It's not that we don't have sufficient black commogies. Now

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Speaker 3: we can.

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Speaker 6: We can part that law as a reason. I'm pretty

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Speaker 6: sure that's not it. It's somehow or another.

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Speaker 7: They don't think that we understand their lives.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I think a lot of it is is that I

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Speaker 7: think the costs of living stuff.

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Speaker 2: Right, the inflation stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just cute.

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Speaker 6: So you go out and you know people, well they

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Speaker 6: content actually doesn't and you think it is and then

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Speaker 6: they say, well that guy that.

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Speaker 7: Makes it great.

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Speaker 3: Now I did.

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Speaker 6: But if you don't say something good about the economy,

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Speaker 6: how they're going to know it as anything else? Probably

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Speaker 6: default position is going to be let's scare of the

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Speaker 6: ship out of it. You know that that's gonna work.

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Speaker 6: According to the White House.

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Speaker 7: Message, they say, you're not voting for the almighty, you're.

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Speaker 3: Voting for the alternative. It's all right. That is not

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Speaker 3: a very inspirational starting place. The tough that is summoned

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 7: Well, not you know, well, think about how bad you think,

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Speaker 7: no the band, Now, just think about how bad.

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Speaker 6: That's not probably gonna get somebody off the vote. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: it's a vaccine problem.

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Speaker 8: Is the obi people really talk about it are people

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Speaker 8: that have directly involved in these campaigns. I mean Mandela Barge,

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Speaker 8: the Progressive great unbelievable, we couldn't get turnout.

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Speaker 1: Can I just say one thing about Mandela bar He

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Speaker 1: almost won. He was a victim of bad pulling right.

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Speaker 1: The poll showed he was behind by ten points or

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Speaker 1: eight points.

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Speaker 3: You know what, our shoes stupid.

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Speaker 6: If we haven't lost, we're wanning elections. We wonder the

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Speaker 6: spring Court elected about thirteen points. You know, almost don't

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Speaker 6: get you anything.

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Speaker 7: Not only to be the reason he lost, he did

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Speaker 7: staggeringly well in Dane.

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Speaker 6: County, which is Madison. He can't tap it black time

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Speaker 6: out the law. If he had anything toward normal turnament,

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Speaker 6: and that's where the share kills you. That's that's where

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Speaker 6: you lose when you don't have that, that's why you

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Speaker 6: lose harches and that's why this is so.

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Speaker 3: Unbelieval quick slugging. Yes, a Vandela bar is the perfect example.

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Speaker 6: Wanted to tell you the white progressis they came out

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Speaker 6: of the woodwork, but it wasn't enough. The black sip

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Speaker 6: vote but one or not in order to win, it's

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Speaker 6: very difficult to do it without a robust you said,

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Speaker 6: out got a robust black shit.

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Speaker 3: You really have to match the historical level. You don't affect.

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Speaker 3: You re open.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, James really appreciate you got you dere.

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Speaker 1: Congresswoman Sean Tel Brown represents Ohio's eleventh congressional district.

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Speaker 2: Welcome too fast politics. Representative Brown, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to have you, and I feel like you

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Speaker 1: have such an interesting district. But talk to us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how you got to Congress and what

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Speaker 1: your district is like.

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Speaker 9: I'll start back when I think it's important for your

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Speaker 9: listeners to know that my entree into politics came because

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Speaker 9: I simply wanted to help my neighbors who were all

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Speaker 9: like seniors and mitire's. I was the youngest homeowner on

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Speaker 9: my street. This is in twenty eleven and much like

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Speaker 9: we're dealing with now with the Israel Kamas conflict. The

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Speaker 9: news cycle was redundant, but at that time it was

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Speaker 9: the Japanese tsunami. It led me to my first city

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Speaker 9: council meeting because I I wanted to know where would

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Speaker 9: we go in the event of a natural disaster. So

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Speaker 9: I got the answer. But something gnawed my spirit and said,

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Speaker 9: keep going back and learn about what's happening in your neighborhood.

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Speaker 9: And I did, and what I learned, Molly was there

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Speaker 9: was room for improvement. So rather than complain, I'm a

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Speaker 9: person that believes in being the change that you want

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Speaker 9: to see. And so I decided to throw my name

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Speaker 9: in the hat to run for city council. And as

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Speaker 9: I continued to go to the meetings, I cultivated relationships

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Speaker 9: with the administration and they said, if you need some

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Speaker 9: help out there, let us know. Well. I took them

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Speaker 9: up on their offer, and I was able to get

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Speaker 9: some things done even before being elected. Fast forward, election

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Speaker 9: day came, polls closed, I was down by six votes.

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Speaker 9: Actually thought I lost the race. I was down but

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Speaker 9: not out, disappointed but not devastated. I decided I was

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Speaker 9: going to keep doing what I was doing because I

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Speaker 9: was getting things done. It was about doing the work

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Speaker 9: for the people and not necessarily the position or the

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Speaker 9: title for me. But little did I know there were

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Speaker 9: twenty three provisional ballots in my race. Eleven days later,

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Speaker 9: after those votes were counted, I learned that I had

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Speaker 9: actually won by seven votes. Wow. Yes, every vote does count.

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Speaker 9: Do the work for the people, not the position of

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Speaker 9: the power. And that was the thing that led me

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Speaker 9: into politics. So fast forward, other opportunities presented themselves. I

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Speaker 9: eventually became a county council person, Democratic Party chair, and

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Speaker 9: then the special election came when my predecessor was promoted

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Speaker 9: to Secretary of hud for the Biden Harris administration. And

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Speaker 9: I think the timing opportunity and the work that I

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Speaker 9: had done from twenty eleven to twenty twenty one put

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Speaker 9: me in an excellent position to be able to navigate

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Speaker 9: a race of thirteen candidates and secure almost fifty one

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Speaker 9: percent of the vote in that race. And it really

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Speaker 9: came down to me and another dynamic African American woman.

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Speaker 9: But I think the distinction was I had been in

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Speaker 9: the community for the last ten years actually delivering results,

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Speaker 9: while she had been on the national stage campaigning along

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Speaker 9: Senator Sanders, and so that was the distinction. People knew

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Speaker 9: me I had a reputation for getting things done, and

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Speaker 9: the people knew that they could trust me to go

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Speaker 9: to Congress and get the work done on their behalf.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about this because right

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Speaker 1: now we are starting the run up to what might

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Speaker 1: be the last election we ever have in this country,

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Speaker 1: not to put too fine a point on it, And

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Speaker 1: what you're saying is that you won your election by

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Speaker 1: being known by local people and by delivering for them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that can translate into the presidential.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, because politics is local, right. We've heard the expression

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Speaker 9: and we know it. I'm a federal candidate. I make

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Speaker 9: laws at the national level. But the race came down

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Speaker 9: to the people and knowing the candidates, knowing what the

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Speaker 9: reputation was, knowing the work that they've actually done. Kyahaga County,

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Speaker 9: for your listeners, is heavily democratic, So people say, you know,

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Speaker 9: if you put a bottle of water and it has

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Speaker 9: a d by, it's going to get elected in. It's

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Speaker 9: very important, though, that you have someone in the position, though,

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Speaker 9: that knows how to get things done, who has good

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Speaker 9: working relationships with folks who also is open minded and

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Speaker 9: willing to make compromise. And I think that was the

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Speaker 9: key to what some people would call my rapid rise

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Speaker 9: and success in what has been often described as a

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Speaker 9: legacy seat. This seat was held by the Honorable Loo Stokes,

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Speaker 9: who demanded that we have reflective representation in our government.

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Speaker 9: He was followed by Stephanie Tubbs Jones who left us

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Speaker 9: all too soon, but she had a huge reputation known

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Speaker 9: for her just dynamic personality. She could connect with people

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Speaker 9: from what I would describe as the hood to the heights,

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Speaker 9: from the streets to the suites. She just was known

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Speaker 9: for that. And then followed by my predecessor, Secretary Marsha Fudge,

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Speaker 9: who has been known for making headway and not headlined.

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Speaker 9: She's just all about the policy and always making sure

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Speaker 9: she put the people first. And that was one of

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Speaker 9: the things that she instilled in me. Make sure you

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Speaker 9: put the people first, and that to me is what

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Speaker 9: keeps the eleventh Congressional District. Folks focus on the person,

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Speaker 9: and not necessarily the personality, focus on the substance and

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Speaker 9: not necessarily the style.

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Speaker 1: So today I was talking to James Carbo, and he said,

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Speaker 1: one of the anxieties that Democrats are having is black turnout.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that's crazy? And if you

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Speaker 1: think that's right, what do you think Democrats need to

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Speaker 1: do to fix that.

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Speaker 9: We've got to meet people where they are, Molly, and

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Speaker 9: I know that that sounds cliche, but it is really true,

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Speaker 9: and we have to be able to connect the dots

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Speaker 9: for folks particularly, a lot of people are in survival mode.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 9: Inflation is high, but it's coming down. Rent is high.

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Speaker 9: I don't know that that's coming down, but we are

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Speaker 9: seeing more job creation lower unemployment than we have in

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Speaker 9: recent history.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 9: But because people are in this kind of survival state

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Speaker 9: of mind, we have to be able to connect the

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Speaker 9: winds in everyday life with the policy makers and the

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Speaker 9: legislators so that they understand how the two connect. And

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Speaker 9: what I mean by that. Let's you know, the fact

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Speaker 9: that we've been able to cap insulin prices at thirty

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Speaker 9: five dollars a month is helping put money back into

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Speaker 9: people's pockets.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 9: We know that African Americans are disproportionately affected by diabetes

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Speaker 9: and other chronic illnesses and they're very costly. But because

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Speaker 9: of the Inflation Reduction Act. We've been able to make

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Speaker 9: some real change because of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We've

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Speaker 9: created millions of jobs that did not require a four

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Speaker 9: year degree, but you can earn a good wage. So

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Speaker 9: we've got to get people back to work and back

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Speaker 9: to getting into these good positions, and those who have

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Speaker 9: been able to benefit from these jobs, they have to

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Speaker 9: be able to draw the line back to oh, this

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Speaker 9: is a result of a policy that was made by

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Speaker 9: my congress person. The veterans packed at those things that

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Speaker 9: have helped Veterans who historically and traditionally were not getting

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Speaker 9: the level of benefits that they had earned and deserved,

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Speaker 9: need to know that it was not a miraculous act

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Speaker 9: of God that now they're getting eighty ninety one hundred

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Speaker 9: percent of their benefits when for the last few decades

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Speaker 9: they've been getting ten or fifteen percent. So making these

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Speaker 9: things digestible, palatable, and connecting them to their everyday life,

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Speaker 9: I think is critical to us making sure that people

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Speaker 9: understand that their vote has value and they are getting

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Speaker 9: some real tangible results.

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Speaker 1: So you have this legislation that you've just introduced which

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Speaker 1: would improve federal re entry grant programs. Explain to us

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Speaker 1: what all those words be in.

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Speaker 9: Well, recidivism is high, and we want to make sure

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Speaker 9: that we're dealing with issues as it relates to recidivism

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Speaker 9: and reducing that. And so we wanted to put something

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Speaker 9: together because this, again is an issue in a city

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Speaker 9: like clevelandle one of the highest poverty rates in a

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Speaker 9: big city in the country, where we're trying to help

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Speaker 9: returning citizens be able to seamlessly transition back into the

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Speaker 9: everyday life. And so these are the things that we

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Speaker 9: hear from constituents that are critically important to just again

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Speaker 9: making their lives better, putting people over politics, doing the

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Speaker 9: real work that delivers real results and improve the quality

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Speaker 9: of their life.

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Speaker 1: So, after three weeks of having no House speaker, you

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Speaker 1: now have a new Speaker of the House. He is

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Speaker 1: quite religious, but not universally disliked like Kevin McCarthy, So

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Speaker 1: that's something he definitely has fantasies of a federal abortion ban.

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Speaker 1: Are you concerned about that coming up? There's different parts

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Speaker 1: of the cr that he has to try to pass.

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Speaker 1: A lot of this is going to happen in the

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Speaker 1: new year. But I'm just curious what your thoughts are

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Speaker 1: about the new Speaker.

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Speaker 9: Many thoughts about speaker, So starting with the fact that

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Speaker 9: he is he has been described as the architect of

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Speaker 9: the election, denying for the twenty twenty election, and that

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Speaker 9: is very concern and giving the fact that he is

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Speaker 9: now the Speaker of the House and has far, far,

445
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 9: far too much authority in my opinion, as it relates

446
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 9: to how we will transition in twenty twenty four after

447
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 9: votes are accounted and the things that we will need

448
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 9: to do to certify our election. So I do have

449
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 9: some concerns as it relates to the National Abortion Band.

450
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 9: You know, I'm from Ohio. We had a big issue

451
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 9: in November earlier this month as it relates to enshrining

452
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 9: the right for women and people to make their own

453
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 9: health care decisions into our constitution. It was a big

454
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 9: deal because, like many of the other states where this

455
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,400
Speaker 9: was on the balloted pass by I think fifty seven percent.

456
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 9: And the reason I bring that up is because Republican

457
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 9: like Megamike and Jim Jordan and our Secretary of State,

458
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 9: who was the architect of an issue in August, wanted

459
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 9: to raise that threshold to sixty percent of supermajority, which

460
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 9: would have if they were successful in August, then this

461
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 9: initiative in November would not have passed. So it is

462
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 9: very concerning to have someone in the House who is

463
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 9: anti abortion, anti LGBTQ, and does it under the guise

464
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 9: of religion, because I am a child of faith and

465
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 9: the Bible that I read teaches me to love, and

466
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 9: that is one of the foundation and premises of faith

467
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 9: that I don't always see being practiced on the other

468
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 9: side of the aisle. There's a lot of hate, a

469
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 9: lot of bashing, and a lot of anti this and

470
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 9: anti that, and it is quite frightening for me as

471
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 9: a black woman who knows that our rights and freedoms

472
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 9: are constantly being threatened, especially right now where we have

473
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 9: this radical right wing Supreme Court who continues to make

474
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 9: decisions that just seem to continue to turn back the

475
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 9: hands of time as it relates to affirmative action, the

476
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 9: Dobbs decision which overturned Row versus Way. It is a

477
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 9: frightening time. So Maga Mike is right in line with

478
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 9: President Trump's just anti anti anti everything. They are truly

479
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 9: the Party of no great at pointing out problems, terrible

480
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,239
Speaker 9: at finding any solutions, and I don't see right now

481
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 9: Magamic being any different. Quite candidly, it.

482
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: Is interesting now that they have found someone who he

483
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: basically would someone that they sort of like they just

484
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: panicked right after three weeks of not having a speaker,

485
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: and really we just have to make someone speaker. And

486
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: this guy is not universally loathed. I think it's interesting

487
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: when you think about this abortion band. I mean, you're

488
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: in Ohio, so you I mean, what do voters tell

489
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: you are their concerns.

490
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 9: Well, let me start with going just back to that

491
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 9: critical election at the top of the month. Is that people.

492
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 9: The people spoke loud and clear, and it was a

493
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 9: broad coalition. I definitely have the lead Democrat, but Independence

494
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 9: and Republicans. You don't get those type of numbers in

495
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 9: Ohio without having a broad coalition of support. So what

496
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 9: they're telling us is that they want to be able

497
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 9: to make their own health care decisions. They do not

498
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 9: support these all out abortion bans, these extreme abortion bands.

499
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: In Ohio.

500
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 9: We were the state that had a ten year old

501
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 9: rape victim who had to flee the state to get

502
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 9: an abortion, and that alone should let people know that

503
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 9: abortion care is healthcare. This is the state that I

504
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 9: live in so people are very clear whether they're Democrat, Republican, independent, male, female, black, white, abroad.

505
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 9: A coalition of folks came out for this election, which

506
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 9: is in a local election year traditionally, so typically in

507
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 9: local election years, some people like to call them off

508
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 9: election years. I don't believe in off election years. There's

509
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 9: no such thing as an off election. Particularly in Ohio.

510
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 9: We have elections every single year, often twice primaries in general.

511
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 9: So in this local election year, we saw numbers like

512
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 9: mid term election numbers, which is unheard of.

513
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 2: Oh so you're seeing a lot of turnarout.

514
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, we were seeing great turnouts. So people are

515
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 9: paying attention. What it's telling me, people are paying attention.

516
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 9: Issues are still important, and messaging matters. That's what the

517
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 9: people are telling me.

518
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a really good point. I mean, but

519
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: you feel like your constituents the sort of number one

520
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 2: thing they're struggling with right now is inflation.

521
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 9: Inflation is a challenge and what we have continued to

522
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 9: do and continue to fight for in this in this Congress.

523
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 9: But I think more successfully obviously in the one hundred

524
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 9: and seven with Democrats have the majority, we were able

525
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 9: to get some significant things done and so now Molly,

526
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 9: it's about implementation. In twenty twenty one, my first vote

527
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 9: second day was to cast the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. We

528
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 9: know that the Bipartisan Infrastructure Structure Law will yield amazing

529
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 9: job opportunities for years and years to come. This is

530
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 9: not something we're just going to see a one or

531
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 9: two year benefit. This is going to be for years

532
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 9: and years to come. So I have the utmost confidence

533
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 9: that as we talk about inflation and we think about

534
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 9: the opportunities that are going to avail themselves when we

535
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 9: couple that with the Inflation Reduction Act, with the things

536
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 9: that we have already done and that we will be

537
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 9: able to do to combat inflation, like the negotiation of

538
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 9: the top ten prescription drug prices, negotiating them down, so

539
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 9: again we're putting money back into people's pockets. The rebates

540
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 9: that people would be able to receive as it relates

541
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 9: to improving and upgrading their homes to make the more

542
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 9: energy efficient, lowering their electric bills and gas bills and

543
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 9: things like that, those are the real things that will

544
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 9: start to hit people's wallet. We're starting to see gas

545
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 9: prices come down, but nobody's really talking talking about these things.

546
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 9: The number of people that the President was able to

547
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 9: relieve of their student debt, and still we have the

548
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 9: Save program for those who did not get that benefit.

549
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 9: They can get their student loan payments adjusted based on

550
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 9: their income and how many people live in their household,

551
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 9: and they won't be impacted by the interest rate, which

552
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 9: has also been a hindrance for people. So there are

553
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 9: things that are continuing to happen as a result of

554
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 9: the one hundred and seventeen Congress to deal with this inflation.

555
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 9: And so I think we'll given a little bit more time,

556
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 9: and hopefully by the time this time next year, a

557
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 9: little bit sooner, people will be able to say, Okay,

558
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 9: I'm feeling the results of this great legislation that was

559
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 9: passed during the one hundred and seventeenth Congress to tackle

560
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 9: these issues round inflation.

561
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I hope you'll come back.

562
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 5: I hope you'll have me back.

563
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: It was a pleasure bank.

564
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: Yes, you're great, really appreciate you. Thank you.

565
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: Doug Rushkoff is the author of Survival of the Richest.

566
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 5: So let me tell you, yes, I honestly, honestly, if

567
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 5: I could choose anyone with who to sit in the

568
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 5: front row at the downfall of civilization, It would be you.

569
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 5: I really won't.

570
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: I don't know.

571
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 5: I'm listening to you this morning to get thinking. I

572
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 5: don't know if you are intervening on behalf of democracy

573
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 5: or simply providing palliative care to a dying society. But

574
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 5: it feels so good to listen to you, and then

575
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 5: to get your email.

576
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 7: We need you.

577
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 5: It's like, oh my god, I want to be part.

578
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 5: I'm here, iron here, I'm.

579
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: So I want to start by asking you a question

580
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: which I have been thinking about this entire time, because

581
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: I wrote this week about this idea of pseudo events,

582
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: and then my husband Mac Greenfield was talking about this

583
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: idea of the single lachrum, right, which is this is

584
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: a little we're getting a little esoteric here.

585
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: So well, this is a long, convoluted way to say that.

586
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: When I talked to Ben Mazerk, he said that he

587
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: was pretty sure that Elon Musk believed he was in

588
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: a simulation revolving around him, and that this is not

589
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: that unusual for very successful people.

590
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 5: What discuss Well, it's interesting in the last season of Westworld,

591
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 5: which was about these robots and all they're like, you know,

592
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 5: robot people. One of the leads decides to try to

593
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 5: figure out kind of how to save the planet, how

594
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 5: to save civilization, So he runs simulations in order to

595
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 5: figure out what's the best path. So he spends, like,

596
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 5: you know, ten years, running millions and millions of simulations,

597
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 5: trying everything to find out what's the most likely path. So,

598
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 5: if you're running millions and millions and millions of simulations

599
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 5: in order to figure out which one path to go,

600
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 5: it means that there's way, way, way more simulations going

601
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 5: on than there are actual realities. Right, So tech bros Figure,

602
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 5: since there's so many more simulations going on, it's way

603
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 5: more probable that we're just in one of those simulations

604
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: than we are in a real thing. That's sort of

605
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 5: where they go with it, you know. But they live

606
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 5: by probability, right, That's artificial intelligences are what. They're probability engines.

607
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 5: They look for the most probable answer to something that

608
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 5: anybody who's stuck completely in the kind of computer mindset,

609
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 5: they run everything to get to the most probable outcome,

610
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 5: the most probable way of making money, the most probable

611
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 5: place to make your bet on the stock market, and

612
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 5: they're not living in that weird human in between crazy

613
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 5: realm of possibility where us sort of more are humanist

614
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 5: kind of thinkers live.

615
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: So what does that mean?

616
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 4: Does that mean? What that means?

617
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: We are in a simulation. I'm worried that now that

618
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: you're saying Elon is right.

619
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 5: No, I'm saying that if you're playing a purely probabilistic game,

620
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 5: then Elon is right. But you know what, life itself

621
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 5: is so highly improbable, right, that something sappened to make

622
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 5: this everything great that's happened. You know, life and humans

623
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 5: and consciousness and society. These are all improbable things. Even

624
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 5: the way that the tech bros have manifested it's highly

625
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 5: improbable that you'd get to be Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk.

626
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 5: So on the one hand, they think of themselves as

627
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 5: these demi gods, super being better than anybody else, which

628
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 5: is highly improbable. And on the other hand, they're playing

629
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 5: this computer game that we're living in a world dictated

630
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 5: by probability, and it just it doesn't hold up right.

631
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 5: It's so self contradictory. But these are not normal people.

632
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 5: They don't think in normal ways. They didn't ground themselves

633
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 5: emotionally right. They didn't develop personalities the way most of

634
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 5: us did. They kind of leaned into certain aspects of

635
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 5: their autism to become a kind of a distanced systems

636
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 5: thinker where they look at the world much more like

637
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 5: everybody or just little iron filings moving back and forth

638
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 5: between the magnetic poles of these super beings you know

639
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 5: that are them and Musk and viz Us and Zuckerberg.

640
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: Elon went to Israel yesterday as a response to being

641
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: called antisemitic. Maybe I don't know, I mean, does he

642
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: just want to keep everyone's attention? Is there something more

643
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: that I'm missing? Explained to me? What's happening here?

644
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 5: Well, I think Elon Musk thinks of himself a bit

645
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 5: like the King that when he kind of bought Twitter

646
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 5: and turns it into x and became the new troll

647
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 5: in chief, kind of replaced Trump as the planet's chief troll.

648
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 5: And I think he does. You know, I don't think

649
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 5: he's as evil as all that. I think he's more

650
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 5: whimsical but very very powerful. So he sees a tweet

651
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 5: and he goes, yeah, that sounds right, and he retweets

652
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 5: it at the moment, and it's like dude, what are

653
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 5: you doing? Like, you know, whether it's you know, Pelosi's husband,

654
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 5: you know, is attacked by a gay lever. That sounds good.

655
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 5: Let's see what that does. It's also great for business

656
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 5: in a certain way. It's great for business if your

657
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 5: business is to generate excitement and inflammation and you know,

658
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 5: and get people tweeting and commenting, then sure, you know

659
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 5: the same as it's good for business. For Trump. It

660
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 5: gets his base all excited, so he'll retweet things and

661
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 5: generate hubbub and then right his advertisers want to leave.

662
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 4: So what does he do?

663
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 5: A kind of a listening tour on the Middle East? Right,

664
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 5: this good friend baby net and Yahoo. You know, you

665
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 5: also just he keeps who just keeps saying there will

666
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 5: never be two states. It's like, do you really want

667
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 5: to be saying that just out in the open. You know,

668
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 5: at least we know where he stands. But it's bizarre.

669
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 5: But yeah, he goes and walks through See I like Jews.

670
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 5: It's all good. Remember I'm from another apartheid state.

671
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 4: You know.

672
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: It's such a strange phenomenon to have this person was

673
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: so much power. So he does control like half of

674
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: the satellites in the country, right, I know.

675
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 5: I mean that's the thing that I keep thinking, is

676
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 5: like there's a real difference between the kind of robber

677
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 5: barons of today versus those of the of the original

678
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 5: Gilded Age, you know, because I was looking at that,

679
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 5: they really are not. Musk is not richer than JP

680
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 5: Morgan was, you know, not balanced for inflation. These guys

681
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 5: are not richer, but they seem so much more powerful.

682
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 5: And I think it's because they have this almost horizontal power. Right,

683
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 5: Musk doesn't just own Twitter X. He owns Tesla and

684
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 5: Space and Starlink and the Boring Company and Solar City

685
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 5: and Neuralink and Xai and he's trying to build another

686
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 5: finance company. So yeah, So he owns Starlink, which is

687
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 5: like the main satellite system that we use for surveillance

688
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 5: and spying. So he had the ability to tell Ukraine, Okay,

689
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 5: I'll give you the ability to see this far into Russia,

690
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 5: but no further than that. Or he can go to

691
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 5: Israel to say, okay, you know, I'll let you see

692
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 5: this part of Gaza, but maybe not that. And that's

693
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 5: weird for a tech bro dude to have, you know,

694
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 5: kind of almost the ability to grant powers or not

695
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 5: to international militaries.

696
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: Do you think that part of what.

697
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: Has created Elon Musk and also this tech pro overclass

698
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: which controls things that normal citizens should probably not control.

699
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 1: Do you think that that is because of a lack

700
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: of government regulation.

701
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 5: Which certainly doesn't help. And it's interesting ed the brilliance

702
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 5: of some of these guys, like you look at a

703
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 5: Sam Altman who begs for government regulation is for them

704
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 5: by the time they turn around and say we want

705
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 5: government regulation, it's because they can write the regulation to

706
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 5: favor their own businesses. Right, So once you get to

707
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 5: the monopoly stage, you go, okay, let's have regulation. Let's

708
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 5: make sure all the important players have a place at

709
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 5: the table and no one else can get in. You know,

710
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 5: that's like a classic move. So when you see one

711
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 5: of these guys actually going to Congress and saying, Okay,

712
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 5: I think it's time, that's because there they realize they

713
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 5: have no more competitive advantage, that the way their technology

714
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 5: works could be repeated by someone else, so quickly create

715
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 5: regulations that prevent anyone else from having enough money to

716
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 5: get in to get in on this thing. So, yeah,

717
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 5: it's partly that and I think it's partly really capitalism itself.

718
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 5: I really believe when people are talking about AI as

719
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 5: this threat and they're worried about it, really what they're

720
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 5: talking about is capitalism. It's not the AI, the technology

721
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 5: it's in this case, it's the content. It's what are

722
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 5: you running? What's the AI running on? The AI is

723
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 5: running on, you know, the same corporate capitalist model of

724
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 5: the East India Training Company, you know, sixteen hundred.

725
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is what is really strange and disturbing.

726
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: What would your solutions be for this kind of problem?

727
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 4: Right? Like?

728
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you have Elon Musk he is getting increasingly

729
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: i want to say, right wing. He controls fifty percent

730
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: of the satellites. We already know that he's done things

731
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: like in Ukraine, decided he was sort of going to

732
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: take Russia's side, right or we don't totally know, but

733
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: there's some evidence to support that he may have made

734
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 1: high level security decisions about his satellites that technically you

735
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: might not want a private citizen making. I mean, are

736
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: there sort of solutions that you can think of for

737
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: this that go beyond regulation? I mean my sense as

738
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: the government is just doing too little here you know,

739
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: I don't know.

740
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not as good at the government side as

741
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 5: the cultural side. And what I can tell you is

742
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 5: that these guys are desperate for our approval and adulation.

743
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 5: That they really look at themselves like demigods, like comic

744
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 5: book heroes of a certain sort. And there is a

745
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 5: tinkerbell quality to any demigod where you know, if you're

746
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 5: not worshiping at their altar, they will do whatever they

747
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 5: have to to get us to worship at their altar.

748
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 5: They want our love, and I think the way we

749
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 5: redirect some of their behaviors is by withdrawing and withholding

750
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 5: our worship. I mean, it was hard, as a professional

751
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 5: writer whatever just to go screw this. I'm leaving x Twitter.

752
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 4: This is just not right.

753
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 5: I don't want to feed into this, and I need

754
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 5: to make get okay for other people to not be

755
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 5: there either. It's okay to leave the man's platform if

756
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 5: you don't like the man, because he's turned it into

757
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 5: an extension of this ridiculous, crazy personality. It's a matter

758
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 5: of us personally and culturally, socially and civically not adopting

759
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 5: their effective altruist, almost quasi eugenic understanding of the world.

760
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 5: But I'm thinking it's it's not adopting this every man

761
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 5: for him self mindset that they have, you know, feeling

762
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 5: confident to meet our neighbors and not depend on digital

763
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 5: social networks to interact with other people. It will take time,

764
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 5: that's sort of the slow path, but certainly regulate, certainly

765
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 5: empowered government or I hate to say it, you know,

766
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 5: the Pentagon or whoever it is, it's supposed to be

767
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 5: making the decisions rather than him. But it's also not

768
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 5: focusing so much on these guys as our own cultural heroes,

769
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 5: you know, as our own exemplars. That's I think almost

770
00:41:58,360 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 5: tougher for people than voting.

771
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is so true.

772
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 5: They're laughable, right, These are clowns, Musk challenging Zuckerberg to

773
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 5: a cage match. I mean really, and they go back

774
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 5: and forth on it.

775
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: Is this real?

776
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 5: You know, these guys believing that the Earth is the

777
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 5: fuel that they're going to use to get off the

778
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 5: planet in order to actually survive beyond us or promote

779
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 5: the human future. This effective altruist idea that the human

780
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 5: beings who are alive today are just the larval stage

781
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 5: of humanity and the only the ones that matter are

782
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 5: going to be the ones that fly off. These are

783
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 5: crazy people, right, These are nuts people. That's Sam Altman,

784
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 5: that's Musk, that's steal And these guys are in charge

785
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 5: of the technology that we believe is going to be

786
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 5: the you know, the next big thing. They the ais

787
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 5: that are going to rule our world. He's like, no way.

788
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: Do you think the quick decision in the Sam Bankman

789
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: Freed trial and the fact that he is likely going

790
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: to go to jail SBF. Yeah, I think he's actually

791
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: in jail, right, Yeah, that that has had some kind

792
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: of effect on the tech pros because I mean that

793
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: crew was saying, oh, he'll never get punished because he's

794
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: a Democrat, which is not even true.

795
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: He donated to both parties or do you think that

796
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 2: really that did not have any effect on them.

797
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 5: I think it was a little sacrificial lamb. Sam Bankman

798
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 5: Freed was involved in the most overt style of tech broism, right,

799
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 5: he was actually working with the money itself. So I

800
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 5: think they feel insulated because they're in fantasy businesses you

801
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 5: know that are there are that are unrelated. There's sort

802
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 5: of one step removed from the raw money lender and

803
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 5: my money changer, Sam Bankman freed in some ways. The

804
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 5: interesting thing was after the SBF and then the also

805
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 5: the Silicon Valley bank failure, tech pro generosity changed a lot.

806
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 5: A lot of my friends in the nonprofit world are

807
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 5: having a whole lot harder time I'm getting funded than

808
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 5: they did before those two financial events. So I feel

809
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 5: like the people who are into sort of digital finance

810
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 5: have been chasened. But the people who are, you know,

811
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 5: doing this kind of crazy world building, I don't think

812
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 5: they're they're at all of it.

813
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: Sam Altman ai discuss.

814
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 5: That was an interesting one, right, So it's funny, you know,

815
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 5: there's this story we're all familiar with now, this trope

816
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 5: of the sort of the ousted CEO and the CEO

817
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 5: had the original true, you know dream of the company,

818
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 5: and they get kicked out by the capitalists, and the

819
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 5: capitalists end up kind of failing, and then their original

820
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 5: dream CEO comes back, like you know, Steve Jobs came

821
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 5: back and rescued the true soul of Apple. Well, the

822
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 5: Sam Altman story is that in reverse, right, there was

823
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 5: a board of directors of this sort of non profity

824
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 5: cap profit company. You've got to have a hybrid company

825
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 5: that was trying to do good, and they had a

826
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 5: board of directors who felt responsible to humanity. That the

827
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 5: real mission of this company was not to build AI,

828
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 5: but the underlying ultimate mission was to make sure AI

829
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 5: did not harm humanity, that AI would be benevolently deployed.

830
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 5: And they were getting concerned that Sam Altman and the

831
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 5: business people were sacrificing that important ethical mission for the

832
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 5: idea of making money. Right, the employees, they all want

833
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 5: an IPO so they can cash out and make a

834
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 5: ton of money. Sam Altman realized he's on the top

835
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 5: and was really looking at From the best I can

836
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 5: tell talking to my friends is that he was looking

837
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 5: at adding a new way for AI to work, so

838
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 5: that AI wouldn't just be using language models, but was

839
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: going to start using math to figure stuff out for real.

840
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: And could kill us, all right, Right, Well, OU to

841
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: killer to.

842
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 5: Do whatever it's going to do, but to grow, right,

843
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 5: And between Altman and Microsoft and the employees, they were

844
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 5: starting to look at money first, right, the real program,

845
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 5: which is capitalism. Right, Capitalism the ultimate most powerful AI. Right.

846
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 5: So this was not a CEO kicked out by capitalism.

847
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 5: It was a CEO being kicked out by the anti capitalists,

848
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 5: by the ones who were saying, wait a minute, we

849
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 5: got to put on the brakes here by a board

850
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 5: of directors who actually was acting so ethically they thought,

851
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 5: even if this kills the company, it's what we have

852
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 5: to do because we can't let this bad thing happen.

853
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 5: And so he gets kicked out. But the capitalists when

854
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 5: and all the employees go, no, wait a minute. We

855
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 5: want our money, we want our stuff. We like our

856
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 5: tech bro. You know, he's got a great personality, and

857
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 5: look he's talking about being responsible. Come on, and they

858
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 5: push him right back in, right, and then the board

859
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,959
Speaker 5: members are gone. We really looked at the real way

860
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 5: that capitalism kind of took over a company through its

861
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 5: original CEO.

862
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: So interesting. Thank you so much, Doug Rushkoff. I hope

863
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: you'll come back.

864
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 5: Oh, thank you, no moment.

865
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, Mali jog Fest.

866
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 10: You know, it's always nice when a network gives out

867
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 10: an endorsement, because you're like, that's the thing, but then

868
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 10: never mind to somebody who has absolutely no chance. But

869
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 10: then it inspires a lot of backbitting. What are you

870
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 10: seeing here?

871
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: Coke Network, which only one Coke is alive still has

872
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: decided to get behind Nicky Haley. This is a pretty

873
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: interesting phenomenon we're watching happen in real time, which is

874
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: Republicans have discovered and sort of figured out that DeSantis

875
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: cannot win, and so they're trying to coalesce behind someone

876
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: who they think could conceivably win the nomination. And Nicki

877
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: Haley has done really well in this primary contest. She's

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00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 1: not my pick, but she's much more charismatic and less

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00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 1: insane than Ron DeSantis. But what I think is interesting

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00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: is the Koch brothers. You know, they're desperate not to

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00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 1: have Biden have a second term because remember there's all

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00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: this progressive spending government spending which they hate, right and

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00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: the dream of a lot of these Republicans is to

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00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: get rid of Obamacare and to kill the Social Safety

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00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: Net for once and for all. And so Republicans have

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00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: decided they're going to get behind Nikki Hilly. And my

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00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 1: gas is that over the next couple weeks and months

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00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: you're going to see more of that. But Donald Trump

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00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: is not going away. As much as Republicans have long

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00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: to wish him away, you cannot wish Donald Trump away.

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00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: And that is why this entire fiasco is our moment

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00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: of fuckery. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

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00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the

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00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

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00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

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00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

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00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: for listening.