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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland.

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Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts and How the

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Speaker 1: Tech are You. We are wrapping up my tenure with

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Speaker 1: the podcast tech Stuff, and as a special treat for

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Speaker 1: me and potentially for you two, I have the stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, boys right here, live

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Speaker 1: and in the studio, in the flesh, right in front

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Speaker 1: of me.

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Speaker 2: Hi, guys, Hey, thanks for having us. Jonathan. I'm getting

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Speaker 2: a little starstruck.

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Speaker 3: I actually was listening to a podcast the other day

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Speaker 3: and I heard you come on doing an ad read

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Speaker 3: for Intel or something, and that I am in the

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Speaker 3: same room with those pipes.

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Speaker 1: Right next to me, as if we hadn't just done

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Speaker 1: a ridiculous history.

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Speaker 3: That's true, but that was remote.

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Speaker 2: We're true. That's a character right right.

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Speaker 1: So we you have just heard Ben Boleen and Noel Brown. However,

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Speaker 1: there is another person here in the room, Matt Frederick,

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Speaker 1: someone who I have known since I began working at

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Speaker 1: HowStuffWorks dot com February fifteenth, two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 3: I'm me back when Matt was kneehigh to a bed

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Speaker 3: bugs eye.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 4: And Jonathan, I actually have a present for you now

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Speaker 4: on tech Stuff. Yeah, this is a video that was

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Speaker 4: posted fourteen years ago to the house Stuff Works YouTube page.

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Speaker 1: Is this juggling?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: No, just just really quickly, let's let's listen, all right,

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Speaker 4: there's gonna be in that.

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Speaker 1: Obsequious? Yes, Oh hi, I'm Jonathan stan the popular podcast

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff Popular. That's I didn't see that. It's just me.

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Speaker 3: I made that.

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Speaker 1: I made that as obsequious as I possibly could. And

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Speaker 1: then and then was laughing about I was reading a dictionary, yes, in.

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Speaker 3: That video like you do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the whole joke, was that I'm obsequious?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there.

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Speaker 3: Without the video for context, I just thought I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: I thought I didn't know what that was about.

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Speaker 4: Well, it was an ad for the brand new house

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Speaker 4: Stuff Works app.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah. Do you guys remember when when smartphones transformed

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Speaker 1: the way that people access information online and suddenly every

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Speaker 1: single website had to have its own app.

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Speaker 3: We've totally gotten out of that mode, right.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Do you remember pivot to video?

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Speaker 2: Which one?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Right, well I remember three.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you one story and I do have to

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Speaker 4: get out of here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, Matt's only here for for the

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Speaker 1: intro and I'm just here to say out.

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Speaker 4: I'm here to celebrate tech stuff in Jonathan Strickland because guys, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I remember a specific conversation when our when we were

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Speaker 4: doing that initial pivot to video after the Discovery acquisition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Ben and I boo years.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Ben and I had a little twinkle in our

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Speaker 4: eye thinking maybe we could make a weird conspiracy slash

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Speaker 4: unsolved mystery show that we've always wanted to make. It's true,

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Speaker 4: and maybe we could do it now. And we didn't

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Speaker 4: have a name. Oh yeah, our boss came in and

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Speaker 4: showed us how to do the voiceover and like, it

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Speaker 4: needs to look like this, it needs to sound like this.

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Speaker 4: We're like, okay, but that's kind of what we were

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Speaker 4: already doing. Yeah, and we were like, we don't know

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Speaker 4: what to call this. We were in the break room

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Speaker 4: area with the little kitchenette yep, and talking to you, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: mister Strickland, and what did you say.

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Speaker 3: The name should be?

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Speaker 1: Well, we already had brain stuff, but our first big

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Speaker 1: podcast was Stuff you Should Know. And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you just call it stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know.

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Speaker 2: And we took it and we ran with it. That

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Speaker 2: is a true story, folks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also for a little bit of context in the early

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Speaker 2: halcyon days of podcasting, when we didn't know what was

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Speaker 2: going to happen. Our boss, who I will say with

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Speaker 2: great affection, has always had this nineteen eighties Tom Cruise,

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Speaker 2: cool energy. Yeah, he came in and he was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, bros, so we're how stuff works. We're going

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Speaker 2: to do podcast. Yeah, podcast is not going to be

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Speaker 2: longer than five minutes.

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Speaker 1: Because no one was listening longer than no, no, no.

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Speaker 2: And get this and this was like his big move.

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Speaker 2: He always had a twist in these great speeches he gave,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, we're going to have the word stuff

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Speaker 2: in every name every podcast.

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Speaker 1: Although although our second one, after Stuff you Should Know,

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Speaker 1: was called originally Factor Fiction and then only later turned

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Speaker 1: into stuff you Missed in History class.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it must have gotten the memo.

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Speaker 1: But it was also it was also funny because the

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Speaker 1: original mandate was that we also had to link every

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Speaker 1: episode back to an article that was on the website. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've talked about this about the history of tech stuff too,

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Speaker 1: because like Chris Palette and I, we couldn't even get

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Speaker 1: finished introducing ourselves within five minutes.

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Speaker 3: So it's almost like you're a bit of a talker.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I call myself a chatty kaffy, and I promise

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Speaker 1: you all we will be getting to tech later. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: well this is technically tech and we don't see each

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Speaker 1: other that much anymore.

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Speaker 4: Jonathan, you are one of the smartest people that I've

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Speaker 4: ever met in my life. And you pouring yourself and

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Speaker 4: your knowledge into this show and then out into the world.

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Speaker 4: It means a ton to a lot of people, and

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Speaker 4: to us specifically in this room, and and to me, well, okay.

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Speaker 1: I Ben and I we we agreed early on that

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Speaker 1: we would be each other's arch ne necessity because we

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Speaker 1: figured if you're gonna have one, it should be someone

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Speaker 1: who's kind of cool and nice. I mean, I'm not cool,

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Speaker 1: but I try to be nice.

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Speaker 4: But just to say, I want to celebrate you, and

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Speaker 4: I know there are a lot of people out there

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Speaker 4: right now that celebrate you as a voice in their

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Speaker 4: heads and a friend. They feel like they have a friend,

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Speaker 4: even if they've never met you. And I have met

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Speaker 4: you You're a good friend both.

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Speaker 1: Thank you man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not many people know this, but Randy Newman wrote

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Speaker 1: that song about me.

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Speaker 3: I knew it, you know, thank you for being a friend.

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Speaker 1: No short, people, let me tell you have every.

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Speaker 3: Reason to live because you're giving up the show. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean come.

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Speaker 2: On and you're And as anybody listening Tech Stuff knows,

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Speaker 2: this is not a departure so much as it is

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Speaker 2: an evolution. People are still going to hear you in

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Speaker 2: all sorts of places.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be popping up occasionally, you know, hosting things

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Speaker 1: that make sense.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 1: There's no concrete plans other than the fact that the

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Speaker 1: infamous character the quizt will be making a more regular

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Speaker 1: return to ridiculous history.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we just had you on him on recently, and

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Speaker 3: then you popped in at the end, and yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think I want to just reiterate what I said then

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Speaker 3: when I've got my start with with all of this stuff,

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Speaker 3: I was editing all of the shows, and I wasn't

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Speaker 3: speaking on the mic, but just by being around you

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Speaker 3: and listening and taking in so much of the stuff

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Speaker 3: that you you know, we're talking about about in terms

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Speaker 3: of the world of tech. On Tech Stuff I got

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Speaker 3: smarter and honestly got some confidence, and you had me

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Speaker 3: on the show to talk about like music tech, can

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Speaker 3: you know the audio vidio engineer? And that was one

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Speaker 3: of my very first forays into being on Mike and

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Speaker 3: I never, you know, looking at all of you guys,

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Speaker 3: never would have thought that I would have the confidence

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Speaker 3: to do that. And just getting little opportunities like that

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Speaker 3: from folks such as yourself made all the difference. So

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Speaker 3: I want to thank you for that, and I mirror

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Speaker 3: what Matt said, I feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: Super kind of you. I want to give a shout

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Speaker 1: out just to like podcasters of the past, because when

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Speaker 1: we started podcasting, one of the really cool things about

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Speaker 1: podcasting in general was that podcasters typically really enjoyed having

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Speaker 1: other podcasters come on and guessed on their show and

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Speaker 1: then doing the same, Like there's a lot of cross promotion,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't necessarily even thought of like that. It

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Speaker 1: was literally the joy of being able to interact with

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Speaker 1: other people. I mean, it still exists to an extent

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Speaker 1: this day. It's just now the podcast field is so

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Speaker 1: huge and there's let's just say there's quite a few

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Speaker 1: celebrity podcasts where that is not a prevailing feeling anymore

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Speaker 1: because they're at a different stratospheric level than the rest

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Speaker 1: of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Bateman, Jason, Yeah, just to be specific. Also, Jonathan, again,

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Speaker 2: like I told you all these years ago, I'm never

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Speaker 2: gonna thank you for anything, so I.

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Speaker 1: Would find it. I would find it off putting.

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Speaker 2: If you did, you would think there was a scheme.

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Speaker 1: Would I'd be like, Okay, well he's got his one

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Speaker 1: arm out for a hug. The other one's got to

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Speaker 1: have the knife.

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Speaker 4: Ye.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, thanks guys, that's really nice. It's really nice

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Speaker 1: of you. I really appreciate all the kind words. And

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Speaker 1: uh and now we're gonna talk about how to make

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Speaker 1: sound make people feel like they're dying.

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Speaker 3: And I'm out.

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Speaker 1: Great to see you guys. Yeah, farewell. Matt Frederick, he

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Speaker 1: has an obligation that he must see.

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Speaker 2: To an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we'll cause an opportunity.

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Speaker 3: A taekwon do based opportunity tunity. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's gonna go empty hand it ah, yes, with

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Speaker 1: both hands, two hands.

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Speaker 2: There we go.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well that's it for me, dog, see you later, Matt. Well,

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Speaker 1: now that Matt Frederick has left and we can we

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Speaker 1: can leave the wake like atmosphere of the room behind

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Speaker 1: because I'm not diet well who knows, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: playing on dyeting.

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Speaker 2: Ok.

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Speaker 1: I had a real close call earlier this year, so uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not taking anything for granted, is what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. But I'm still gonna be around and everything.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, earlier this year I did an episode called

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Speaker 1: Acoustic Weapons where I was talking about this whole concept

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Speaker 1: of using sound as a weapon against people, either in

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Speaker 1: order to break them down or perhaps even cause you know,

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Speaker 1: more acute symptoms, not just like sleep deprivation or something

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 3: And lasting death metal while strobe lights play.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which which has been a thing right like, the

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Speaker 1: United States has engaged in such we know this.

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Speaker 2: It's a Barney song, yes example.

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Speaker 1: Yeah like it. You know it happened in Waco, Texas

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Speaker 1: and that whole thing. And yeah, there's just tons of

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Speaker 1: examples of this, but one in particular I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about is a really mysterious one that started to

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Speaker 1: make the news in twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember the halcyon days of twenty sixteen when we were

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Speaker 1: all just wondering what Shenanigan's newly elected President Trump was

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Speaker 1: going to get us.

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Speaker 2: Into It was on SNL. He was doing everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe Piscope was teaching America to laugh.

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Speaker 2: One thing. This is a true story about twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it's weird when we think about how

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Speaker 2: much has happened in less than a decade. I distinctly

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Speaker 2: remember some friends of mine outside of work. They were

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Speaker 2: excited about Donald Trump, then presidential candidate and president elect

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Speaker 2: because they remembered him from home alone too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. He showed a young Kevin where the lobby was.

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Speaker 2: That's how they asked me. They said, Hey, who are

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Speaker 2: you going to vote for in the election? I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I mean I got opinions, and you're not really a

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Speaker 2: political person. They're like, did you know that Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: was home alone too? And that was the deciding fact.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would have voted for Tim Curry and

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Speaker 1: he's not a US citizen.

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Speaker 3: So honestly, you know, Kevin was lost in New York

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Speaker 3: until Donald Trump told him where the lobby was. Then

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Speaker 3: he was found in New York.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we all found ourselves in a way

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Speaker 1: in the state Way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the entire time this is happening, especially folks like

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Speaker 2: Noel Matt and myself and you. Because of the tech

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Speaker 2: aspect of this, we start to hear this scuttle butt,

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Speaker 2: these rumors, these whispers, these allegations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're gonna be talking in a lot of

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Speaker 1: abstracts and vague language because of the very nature of this.

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Speaker 1: So the reports were coming out largely from US government

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Speaker 1: personnel who are working in the embassy in Havana, Qa,

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Speaker 1: and there were several parts of people saying that they

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Speaker 1: were feeling these very odd and non specific symptoms, stuff

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Speaker 1: like brain fog and disorientation and vertigo.

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Speaker 3: Malays yeah, pre covid mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah on we that's sort of a distinct lack of

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Speaker 1: doing your job because you're a government worker in Cuba.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, there were all these different reports coming out,

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Speaker 1: and there was not really any one source that you

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Speaker 1: could point to as saying, oh, this is because of X.

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Speaker 1: But the speculation arose that perhaps some sort of and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to use the vague term that's used in

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Speaker 1: a medical article, directional phenomena exposure was to blame.

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Speaker 3: So, and you know, this certainly isn't the first X

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Speaker 3: syndrome type thing that we've heard of out of you know,

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Speaker 3: conflicts we've got. Of course, Gulf War syndrome is very amorphous,

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Speaker 3: hard to pin down symptoms associated with a condition that

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Speaker 3: may or may not exist.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly. So often we get into these situations

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Speaker 1: where we have a collection of symptoms not universally experienced too. Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: some people might only say that they feel like a

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Speaker 1: couple of them, and there's no overlap between the other

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Speaker 1: person who says, oh, I got the same thing, except

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Speaker 1: I feel blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people might also have different frequencies of symptoms,

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Speaker 2: So yes, sporadic, maybe one off occurrence, or then maybe

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Speaker 2: something longer or even continual.

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Speaker 1: Right, you could have people who said, like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: was feeling like this, but then when I moved to

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Speaker 1: a different part of the building, suddenly I didn't feel

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Speaker 1: like that, and the reason was because some sort of

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Speaker 1: directional phenomena was pointed my way and so I got

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Speaker 1: out of the range or out of the line of

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Speaker 1: fire of it. So this phenomena is the reason why

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Speaker 1: it's such a vague term, is because there's nothing that

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Speaker 1: we know of to point to to say this is

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Speaker 1: definitively the cause of this, if there is an fact

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Speaker 1: a cause at all, But the typical speculative answers are

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Speaker 1: it's something to do with sound that is not directly perceivable,

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Speaker 1: so infrasound or ultrasound, sure, or it could be some

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Speaker 1: form of radio frequency bombardment. And the question then is

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Speaker 1: could such things possibly create the symptoms that were reported

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Speaker 1: under Havana syndrome.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, it couldn't be better timing for this

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Speaker 3: conversation with you, Ben and Matt and I are in

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Speaker 3: the process of cooking up a bit of a live

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Speaker 3: show about weaponizing sound, about hiding messages in sound, and

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Speaker 3: so I mean, we certainly know that the building blocks

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Speaker 3: of sound within that just the you know, frequency ranges

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Speaker 3: that are able to be manipulated. You could do all

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Speaker 3: kinds of stuff we know that can affect people's mood,

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Speaker 3: that can perhaps subliminally implant things into people's minds. The

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Speaker 3: question is, can you use sound to make somebody ill?

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Speaker 1: Yes, And that's a great question, and it's a question

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Speaker 1: that remains unanswered. There was a research study I would

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Speaker 1: like to refer to. It is titled Euroimaging Findings in

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Speaker 1: US Government Personnel with possible exposure to directional phenomena in Havana, Cuba.

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Speaker 1: Rolls off the tongue. Yeah. That one was in the

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Speaker 1: Journal of American Medical Association. This research paper. What they

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Speaker 1: did was there were forty four cases of people who

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Speaker 1: had reported having Havana syndrome having worked at this embassy

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Speaker 1: in Havana, Cuba. Of those forty four, they were able

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Speaker 1: to get forty of them to participate in a study

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Speaker 1: where they were going to use magnetic resonance imaging MRI

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Speaker 1: to look at their brain matter and see is there

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Speaker 1: anything different in their brain matter compared to a control

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Speaker 1: group that did not work in them. Yeah, and did

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Speaker 1: not and have not reported symptoms of Havana syndrome.

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Speaker 3: Can we briefly mention is what some of these symptoms?

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Speaker 3: You said, brain fog, there were others. It was like yeah, collection, yeah,

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Speaker 3: So like I.

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Speaker 1: Said, it's like vertigo, it's disorientation. There was some like

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Speaker 1: difficulty focusing, like not just focusing mentally, but like literally

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Speaker 1: the the ocular yeah, ocular blurd visual bird, visual memory loss, headaches,

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Speaker 1: Like it's a lot of stuff that if you went

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Speaker 1: to your doctor and you said, here's what I'm experiencing

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Speaker 1: not to be like, well, it beats me. It could

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Speaker 1: be one of like literally a billion different things.

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Speaker 2: Drink more water, sleep on a regular schedule.

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Speaker 3: A little more fiber in your diet, get some sun exactly,

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Speaker 3: maybe stop hanging out with jerks, like you know, it

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Speaker 3: could be anything.

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Speaker 1: That's what I mean. I've been told by my friends

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Speaker 1: that that's why they can't hang out with me anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's been prescription that you know.

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Speaker 2: They have to.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's called Strickland syndrome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's like, like, do you feel like I

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Speaker 1: know it all is just talking your ear off all

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Speaker 1: the time. Stop hanging out with strickling. No, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't really say it. I don't really mean that.

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Speaker 3: But no.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's it's just again this big vague collection

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Speaker 1: of of difficult to pin downs and symptoms that could

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Speaker 1: be anything like it may not at all be connected

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Speaker 1: to any external source, right, it could just be from

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Speaker 1: other environmental factors, or it could be you know, some

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Speaker 1: other condition. Who knows. But they said, what we're gonna do,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna look at the brains of these people who

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Speaker 1: were working in Havana the forty of the four forty

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Speaker 1: of the forty four. Yeah, because it turned out that

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Speaker 1: at least three of the forty four were they had

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Speaker 1: other conditions that would have complicated things, because they would

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Speaker 1: definitely have differences in their in their brain imaging, but

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with Havana syndrum.

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Speaker 2: It was a comorbidity, so to be So to be clear,

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Speaker 2: and I love that you bringing this up. This is

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Speaker 2: a mission critical point. It's not as though four of

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Speaker 2: those forty four people all of a sudden had some spooky,

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Speaker 2: top secret stuff. They were just the nature of their

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Speaker 2: pre existing medical condition would make it incredibly difficult, if

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Speaker 2: not virtually impossible, to accomplish what they wanted to do

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Speaker 2: with this stuck.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, How do you say that, oh, that part

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Speaker 1: in your image is due to Havana syndrome, not this

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Speaker 1: other condition that you are currently experienced. Also, one of

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Speaker 1: the four who didn't participate just didn't want to participate.

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Speaker 2: And which is totally fine.

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Speaker 1: So that one of the four was probably the one

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Speaker 1: who was told by the government, Hey, you can't be

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Speaker 1: in this right, let's be just don't.

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Speaker 2: Find the implant.

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Speaker 3: Can I also do backtrack real quickly I'd mentioned Gulf

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Speaker 3: War syndrome. It's another kind of loose collection of symptoms

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Speaker 3: that are damn near identical to what we're talking about here. Fatigue,

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Speaker 3: musculo skeletal pain, cognitive problems, skin rash is, diarrhea. It's

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Speaker 3: hard to connect those together.

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Speaker 1: It starts to sound like a pepto bismol.

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Speaker 3: It really really does. And there's a John Hopkins study

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Speaker 3: or article that describes these symptoms as nearly impossible to

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Speaker 3: connect with a particular exposure event.

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Speaker 2: Nonspecific comes down nonspecific. And I didn't know those were symptoms.

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Speaker 2: You guys don't have that all the time.

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Speaker 1: I have back pain all the time. Turns out that

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Speaker 1: I also tend to get kidney stones.

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Speaker 3: So sciatica. Some of this stuff just comes with getting altered.

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Speaker 2: I have malaise, but that's because I read the news.

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Speaker 1: I love Malays like a banana. Duke's malaise is the best.

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Speaker 1: By the way, if you want to have Malays Duke's Malays.

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Speaker 2: Who don't to go with tech stuff brought to you

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Speaker 2: by Duke's malaise, I'm going.

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Speaker 1: To get a note from Duke saying, yeah, can you

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Speaker 1: not okay? So study the study, so they look at

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Speaker 1: the forty brains of these people who had they refer

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Speaker 1: to them as the patients, and then they had the

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Speaker 1: control group and they looked at their brains. They did

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Speaker 1: find differences. There were differences between the two sets. The

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Speaker 1: question then, is are those differences evidence of the people

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Speaker 1: who were the patients the people from Havana. Did they

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Speaker 1: actually get affected by some sort of directed energy or

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Speaker 1: directed sound phenomena, or did some other factor potentially make

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Speaker 1: those changes in their brains evident over time as they

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Speaker 1: worked there, Because they mentioned in the study they said

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Speaker 1: there are limitations to this. For one, imaging only gets

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Speaker 1: so precise, so it could very well be that the

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Speaker 1: differences we're seeing are down to error, although they were

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Speaker 1: significant enough to at least appear not to be the

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Speaker 1: matter of error. Another is that, well, we couldn't get

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Speaker 1: a control group who were in Havana, but.

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Speaker 3: Did it specific Yeah, like, so.

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Speaker 1: These were people from all over the place, not just

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Speaker 1: like they weren't from Havana. So like they couldn't say, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's something else in Havana that leads to these

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Speaker 1: conditions developing that has nothing to do with any kind

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Speaker 1: of sound weapon or radio frequency weapon, and so ultimately

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Speaker 1: they said, we can't say that these folks were affected

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Speaker 1: by the thing that they claim they were affected by. Also,

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Speaker 1: there's a huge amount of variation in when they were

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Speaker 1: clinically evaluated and when they were supposedly exposed to the phenomena,

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Speaker 1: Like in some cases it was as few as four

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Speaker 1: days between supposed exposure and the examination, in others it

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Speaker 1: was more than a year later.

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Speaker 2: So all the intervening variables are literally impossible to account exactly.

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Speaker 1: So all they're saying is there does appear to be

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Speaker 1: a difference. We don't know why there is a difference.

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Speaker 1: We don't know that this difference would actually cause the

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Speaker 1: symptoms that they're complaining about. We don't know about anything

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Speaker 1: that could have created these differences. Certainly we don't know

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Speaker 1: if sound or radio frequencies could do it. So it

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Speaker 1: turns out, y'all, this is something I talked about in

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Speaker 1: the Acoustic weapons episode. It's really hard to make those

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Speaker 1: determinations because it's hard to design an experiment to determine

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Speaker 1: the negative impacts of sound or radio frequencies because of

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Speaker 1: this thing called ethics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, without with god, man, you know what an unfair.

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Speaker 2: What an unfair thing to do to science. We complain

442
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 2: about this on stuff they don't want you to know constantly.

443
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: There's a lot of potentially amazing and I guess impactful

444
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 2: science that just isn't going to get researched past a

445
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: point due to ethics. Think of things like human animal hybrids, right,

446
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 2: commerical creations. And with this case, Jonathan, what I think

447
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: you're going toward here, we completely agree with you. We

448
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: talked about it is to really measure this kind of stuff,

449
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: you would need to set up a group of people

450
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: and subject them to things to see what works well.

451
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 3: Because I mean, like to your point about sonic weapons,

452
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 3: I'm sure you discussed this in the episode. These things

453
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 3: do exist, yes, l rad's you know, things that are

454
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 3: used for crowd dispersion, non lethal ways of dealing with

455
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 3: you know whatever.

456
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, Typically these are are designed to overwhelm your sense

457
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: of hearing, right, Like it's to make it so uncomfortable

458
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: to be in the line of that very concentrated beam

459
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 1: of sound that you disperse because you can't stand to

460
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: be there anymore.

461
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 3: But they're only long range to a point, right, Yes, Yes,

462
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 3: And that's part of the whole question about Havanas, and

463
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 3: nobody saw anyone deploying anything like that against an.

464
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: Excellent point nol. Yes, absolutely, because even with these, like

465
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: some of them, you can beam sound effectively over multiple

466
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: football field lengths. But sound does disperse, yeah, like even

467
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: in a concentrated beam. And there's some really cool things

468
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: you can do to kind of concentrate sound. But sure,

469
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: generally the way sound typically works is that it just

470
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: emanates in all directions from the source. Obviously, that wave

471
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: of energy gets weaker as it goes out because it's

472
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: expanding its size. You can't have that same like it's

473
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: just the way that the universe works. You can't have

474
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: that same level of ooph.

475
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: Well, and shooting something like that into a wall, for example,

476
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 3: there are materials that will further dampen and disperse the sounds,

477
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: and certain frequencies can penetrate material more successfully. Lower frequencies,

478
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: et cetera.

479
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 2: You know, it moves slower, and those those intervening mediums

480
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 2: are not created equals. So a beam of sound or

481
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: a wave of sound shot towards a a window is

482
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 2: gonna function differently from a wave of sound or radio

483
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 2: frequency shot toward you know, the walls of an embassy.

484
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a great point, Ben, And it kind of

485
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: reminds me of something else I want to talk about,

486
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: specifically with radio frequencies and something that really fascinates me

487
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: and infuriates me. But I need to build up to that,

488
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: and so the best way to do that is to

489
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: take a quick break to think our sponsors. Okay, we're back,

490
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: And before I teased that, I was going to talk

491
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: about something that fascinates and infuriates me. That being the

492
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: people out there who talk about how radio waves are

493
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: making them sick, and it's typically people who live near

494
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: like high frequency power lines or five G is a

495
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: big one, right, like, especially like do you remember the five.

496
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 2: G COVID vacation.

497
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: Y'all had to have done episodes about that.

498
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 3: Well, there are some prominent people that were pushing that narrative.

499
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: Forward, people who are who are going to be in

500
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: the next administration who were.

501
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: Doing there's also next presidential administration. There's also we had

502
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: several what Corporate America would call healthy conversations, people who

503
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 2: were who are quite adamant again that several of their

504
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 2: non specific symptoms had been caused in their opinion by

505
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: exposure to certain radio frequencies or to five G. And

506
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 2: I've had a long running conversation with one of our colleagues,

507
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 2: Jack O'Brien, about havana syndrome, probably since around twenty sixteen

508
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: or twenty seventeen. We had him on stuff they don't

509
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: want you to know, gone on daily ie guys to

510
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 2: talk about this, and he's nailing some of the same

511
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: points that you're making there. And I guess, just to

512
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: exercise empathy, one thing we have to establish is that

513
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 2: nobody involved in this experience or in these studies, none

514
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: of them are alps. You know, they're they're pretty intelligent people. Yes,

515
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: so when they're saying something, they're just to be clear,

516
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 2: I think we can all agree they're not trying to

517
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: do a grift. They're not trying to sell a.

518
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: Book, right, They're not trying to become the next influencer

519
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: as like dude whose teeth itches when you know the

520
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: lights come on. They're not trying to be Michael McKeon

521
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: and better call right. And I also want to say,

522
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: like I've always said, text stuff, the philosophy I wanted

523
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: to ingrain in this show as a combination of critical thinking,

524
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: and empathy or compassion, and so you know, I'm assuming

525
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: that the people who do genuinely believe that radio waves,

526
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: whether it's from electromagnetic radiation from a power line or

527
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: from a cell phone tower or even radio transmission towers,

528
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: I don't doubt that they really believe it, and I

529
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: don't doubt that they actually are feeling the symptoms that they.

530
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 3: Describe psychosomatic as real.

531
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's also a possible.

532
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: Belief is a very powerful thing.

533
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: And also, like when something happens to us, we naturally

534
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: turn to look for an explanation of why did that

535
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: thing happen we experience an effect, we want to know the.

536
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: Cause, classify, explain, understand.

537
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: And sometimes the cause is not evident, and then we

538
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: start to speculate, and that can lead us to making

539
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: conclusions that are not necessarily wrong. Those conclusions may be

540
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: entirely right, but they're not supported yet by evidence.

541
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, I and stop me if I'm telling

542
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: tales outside of school. But this is a point that

543
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 2: Jack brought up, and it's one that we were going

544
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: back and forth on. It is completely possible, due to

545
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: the order of reporting, that people felt more convinced that

546
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: their symptoms were serious or were related, because calling names

547
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: are so powerful. Language is so powerful. Instead of a

548
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: loose set of symptom, now you can call it something.

549
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

550
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: And maybe you're having a completely unrelated health issue or

551
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: wellness issue, and all of a sudden you hear that

552
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: somebody else, maybe close to your demographical line of work,

553
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: has experienced something similar and they have a name for it. Yeah,

554
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: which means now you do too.

555
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. It becomes affirming, right, yes, yeah.

556
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: Just so it's a it's a it's a linguistic and

557
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: cognitive hook to hang the code of the symptoms upon it.

558
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: I think it's also closely related to how I won't

559
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: say everybody, but a lot of people have that tendency

560
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: to you know, maybe they're they're scrolling through WebMD and

561
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: they're reading about the symptoms of some disease, and then

562
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: they immediately start thinking, oh my gosh, I think I

563
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: have this.

564
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah WebMD, it's cancer.

565
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, WebMD. We used to work with them, Oh yeah, WebMD.

566
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: Statutal limitations.

567
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: Again, I don't want to dismiss anyone's suffering, right, Like,

568
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: there's people who probably have legitimate symptoms perhaps and perhaps

569
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: it's even from radio frequencies. But what I can tell

570
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: you is that radio frequencies in the world around us

571
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: typically cannot have an impact on our health unless you're

572
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: talking about specific frequencies, specific amplitudes, and.

573
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: Specifically exposure and proximity.

574
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly all of these things matter. Right, So let's

575
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: say we're talking about boring old radio waves, like nothing special,

576
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: We're we're not in the microwave range yet, boring old

577
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: radio waves. So radio waves don't carry that much energy.

578
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: They're they're lower frequency, right, And unless you're near like

579
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 1: a transmitter that's just blasting out at a really high

580
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: power level, like a megawatts or high kilowats, you're not

581
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: likely to feel anything. But if you do stand really

582
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: close to such a transmitter, you know, really close, like

583
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: within twenty feet or something, and you're right in front

584
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: of it, you could start to feel your tissues start

585
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: to warm up, especially from the inside, because the longer

586
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: range radio waves will penetrate you more effectively.

587
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: Never occurred to me.

588
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, which again we can't legal right right.

589
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: But like we know this because people who worked radar

590
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: operating stations would report, oh yeah, no, if you stand

591
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: in front of it, you start to get warm. Real fast,

592
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: and you think I might need to move out of

593
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: the way in a minute. But that's a physical and

594
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: temporary situation, right. It's just like if you were to

595
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: put food in a microwave and heat it up, if

596
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: you need that food out for like ten minutes, it's

597
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: not going to be hot anymore, guys, because that's just

598
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: how thermal dispersion works, right. So microwaves obviously can heat

599
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: up food and other really any tissue that has water

600
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: in it really really quickly. So those can have a

601
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: physical impact on us. But again, there's no evidence that

602
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: it has this kind of impact where it changes our

603
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: brains or makes us feel these various symptoms. It's just

604
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: like it'll heat you up real fast. Then you get

605
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: over to like the really scary electromagnetic radiation, the ionizing

606
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: This is the stuff capable of stripping atoms from our

607
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: electrons from atoms rather and gamma, Gamma and X ray

608
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: those are your two big ones, right, So gamma and

609
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: X ray are capable of doing that. You know.

610
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 3: Anything, is why they put that nifty lead vest on

611
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: top of you when you get X ray at the dentist.

612
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: It's why the dentist moves to a different room, right,

613
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: which is always so reassuring. Well, the dentist has to

614
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: do it multiple times a day, you're only gonna get

615
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: done the one time.

616
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, there is true.

617
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: Yes, that's why. But the way our communication technology works

618
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: is not on that ultra high frequency end. It's not

619
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: in the gamma and X ray and it's on the

620
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: radio wave end and sometimes the microwave end. So even

621
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: five G, even five g yea, even five g just

622
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: it does not get up to the ultra high frequency

623
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: like it doesn't. You have to get past visible light

624
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: for you to get to the point where you're talking

625
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: about the ionizing electromagnetic radiation.

626
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: Hey, what is five G?

627
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: What is five g?

628
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 2: It's one g more than four all right, Well that's

629
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: a water tight case.

630
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: Five G five G five G is radio waves is

631
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: just a it's a band of frequencies that's used for

632
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: communications purposes, wireless communications, so it's a cellular technology that's

633
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: the current standard, and.

634
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 3: It has a higher bandwidth.

635
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially, what you're people say, it's faster faster is

636
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: wrong because all electromagnetic radiation travels at the speed of light.

637
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: It all comes at the same speed. It has greater

638
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: capacity to hold information, so you get bigger packets of

639
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: information in the same amount of time, so it's got

640
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: more data throughput, is what I would say. Faster is

641
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: the the easy way of saying that, it's just not.

642
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 3: Technically bandwidth the right way as well.

643
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you understand because everyone uses bandwidth colloquially now

644
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: to say I don't want to do that because it's capacity.

645
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: Also shout out to my old buddy five G from

646
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: uh from my ta.

647
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking. I was thinking like part of

648
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: aquitine hunger force or something, just by five g. Oh wow. Yeah. So, anyway,

649
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: we don't have any evidence of these radio frequencies causing

650
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: any of these issues. Okay, but because I don't want

651
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: to give any actual, definitive answer to this, because honestly,

652
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: there's so much we don't know.

653
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 2: It's tough.

654
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: It's entirely possible that there is some effect that just

655
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: hasn't been discovered or or documented in a way that

656
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: is supportable. Right.

657
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we can knock down a lot of while

658
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: we cannot yet immediately concretely and conclusively point to something

659
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: and say this is the cause for these forty four

660
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: people and possibly other folks what we can do is

661
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: eliminate a lot of the speculation or the purported claims.

662
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: I'm thinking in particular of oh the insects story, remember

663
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: that came out where they the idea was, oh.

664
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: The cicadas were Yeah, they were making a noise that

665
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: was at the frequency that was causing this stuff, and

666
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: that it had nothing to do with it the like

667
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: intentional weaponized phenomena. It was literally environmental.

668
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: Look upon my chirps, you mighty yeah.

669
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Living in Georgia, we're not. We are all familiar

670
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: with the sound of things like cicadas and tree frogs,

671
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: and I gotta tell you, some nights they can be

672
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: pretty darn annoying if you're camping or something. But I've

673
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 1: never felt like my eyeballs were going, yeah, melting into

674
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: o their sockets like Rayre's the Lost Arc style.

675
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: I love slash hate.

676
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: You know.

677
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: Part of our long strange careers here is that you

678
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: and Noel and Matt and Tari and myself, we all

679
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: soak up these strange, random facts that will just occur

680
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: in like a one line invasive thought. Yeah, and whatever

681
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: I hear cicada is now. Sometimes I'm sitting out, you know,

682
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 2: writing or reading on my patio, and I think those

683
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: guys are just screaming about getting laid. Yeah, that's the

684
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: entirety of their language.

685
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: It's kind of like you know, when you sit there

686
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: and you're outside and you're thinking about how nice it

687
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: sounds to hear the birds chirping, But they're essentially saying

688
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: this is mine, this is which again fighting nemo, Like

689
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: they make that joke with the seagulls right where they're

690
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: just like, mine mine. That's what birds are saying all

691
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: the time.

692
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's not quite Shakespeare.

693
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, not quite except for penguins who often will end

694
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: up doing a time and of athens. It's weird. Yeah okay,

695
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know how they got copy of the script,

696
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: but yeah, so so, yeah, we're at this world where

697
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: there are people who legitimately have been treated for the

698
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: things they've complained about. Sure, they appear to actually be

699
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: experiencing the symptoms. They do seem to have something different

700
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: with their brains from control groups. But again there's limitations

701
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: in that study. And I want to call out that

702
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: study again because they were really good about being upfront about.

703
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 2: That right and couching it correctly.

704
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: Yes, they weren't. They weren't saying like, well, definitively, this

705
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: shows that something's going on. They were like, we have

706
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: to admit that there are these limits to this study,

707
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: and at best we can say there needs to be

708
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: more research into this area, which you have more fun.

709
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: And it's almost always the case though, like that, when

710
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: you get into something like this where it is so

711
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: vague and nonspecific, it is incredibly difficult to figure out

712
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: even how do you go about this unless you do

713
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: something again to that episode of Better Call Saul, where

714
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: you orchestrate a fake demonstration so that someone goes into.

715
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: That ethnically fraud. It was, you know, as a plot

716
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: point in the show.

717
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you aren't familiar with the show, what

718
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: happens is Saul's brother, elder brother, believes that electromagnetic radiation

719
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: causes him to get sick.

720
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: Possibly related to a larger cognitive decline.

721
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: Yes, possibly related to a larger cognitive decline. And so

722
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: there's a point where this escalates into a courtroom scene

723
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: where like all the lights have been turned off and

724
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: everything so that there wouldn't be any electromagnetic radiation.

725
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: Which is treatment that he gets like his in his

726
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: legal practice. Yes, anytime he leaves the house seats requiring

727
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: people to you know, take those kinds of messages.

728
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: He's usually a shut in, and he's usually like coating

729
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: everything with aluminum foil to kind of create a Faraday.

730
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 3: Cage base blanket.

731
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Saul ends up secretly hiding a battery powered cell

732
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: phone I think it is, Yeah, something like that in

733
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: his brother's pocket, and his brother isn't aware that he's

734
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: got it, and it's been on the whole time, and

735
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: so it's it's Saul discrediting his brother by saying, look,

736
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: this thing's been on and yet he hasn't.

737
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: Reacted to it, and humiliating him.

738
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, it's one of those moments where like you

739
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: can both be on the side of Saul and also

740
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 1: hate him, sure at the same time. Which is the

741
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: that's the wonder of those those shows Breaking Bad and Better.

742
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: Card and it's kind of the root of Saul's character.

743
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: Yes, it is. So. There have been, you know, double

744
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: blind kind of experiments, like I'm sure you're familiar with

745
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: this name. Do you know who James Randy?

746
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 2: Yes, the magician most famous skeptics in the Western world.

747
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: Yep uh And still I think up until the time

748
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: of his passing and even after through his estate is

749
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: at a standing challenge and award for anybody who can

750
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: prove anything that would count to.

751
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: His Daystan definition of paranormal.

752
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, paranormal, and no one has ever gotten the chat.

753
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a million dollars. And what I would

754
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: imagine he would do is he would create a double

755
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: blind experiment with people who claim to have this experience.

756
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: Double blind meaning that the people who are writing the

757
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: experiment don't even know what is what which group is

758
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: the control group versus the test group, because you know,

759
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: they might otherwise unknowingly indicate that someone's in the test

760
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: group versus the control group, or.

761
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: An unconscious bias, yes, when they're when they're looking at things,

762
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: because they are also people are such observant creatures that

763
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: without a double blind, in addition to possibly indicating something

764
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: to the test subject, you may also find your own

765
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: scientific process compromised because your brain is going to subconsciously

766
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 2: add cues about the person.

767
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you're BIA already, and it's it's something that

768
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: we all have, Like we all have bias, and you

769
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: know it takes conscious effort to recognize it and then

770
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: to try and eliminate it. And this is just one

771
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: of those ways where like, hey, let's eliminate it by

772
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 1: making sure no one knows what's going on. But you

773
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: might do something like you would have a room where

774
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: it's legit shielded from electromagnetic radiation, like it's a big

775
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: Faraday cage, and then another one that's not, and the

776
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: people involved may not understand what's happening or may not

777
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: even know what the experiment is for, you know, if

778
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: you're because you're trying to make sure that people aren't

779
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: going and thinking, oh, this is about my sensitivity to

780
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, EMF or whatever.

781
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 2: Sure, this is about my no fear T shirt.

782
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So you would go and you'd conduct that

783
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: experiment and see if there were any indicators that say, oh,

784
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: there's an actual phenomenon going on here versus this is

785
00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: perhaps entirely psychological. Psychological effects are still effects, right, Yeah,

786
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: Like you can sit there and it's all in your head,

787
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: but you're still actually experiencing it. The crazy thing about

788
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: that is even knowing that that's a thing doesn't prevent

789
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: it from happening to you, right like placebo effects. The

790
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: placebo effect is real. The placebo effect can affect you

791
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: even when you know the placebo effect is a thing.

792
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: Placebo effect is so strong that it can affect your pets. Okay,

793
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: there have been studies about that, and it's largely within

794
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: the owner's perception of their pet, but also like their

795
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: pet picking up on the owner like, oh, I'm going

796
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: to behave this way now, because that's the expectation.

797
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: Which is why too, I sometimes don't find it too

798
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 3: hard to believe that there is some sand to the

799
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: idea that we can quote unquote heal ourselves, you know,

800
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: through meditation, sure, through controlling the way we perceive our bodies,

801
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 3: through our minds, whether or not we can eliminate a

802
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: tumor or something to that degree. You know, that's I

803
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 3: don't necessarily think that's the case, but I do think

804
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 3: that there is something too mindfulness and meditation that can

805
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 3: create a more general wellness within us.

806
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: And on the flip side of that, if you believe

807
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: that an acoustic weapon or in some form of radiofrequency

808
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: emitter could potentially be harmful to you, there doesn't need

809
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: to be a physical mechanism there, like right for it

810
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: to actually impact you. You can be harmed by that

811
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: thing simply through that placebo effect, just in the negative sense, right.

812
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: Which is why in certain cultures you will see people

813
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: who suffer real measurable symptoms, up to sometimes including symptoms

814
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 2: of great distress because they believe that a supernatural curse

815
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: has worked. The most famous of this would be, or

816
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 2: at least in my mind, would be, the practice in

817
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 2: certain Aboriginal communities in Australia of the bone pointing or

818
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: the stick pointing. It's a weird thing, gotcha, I think

819
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: it's think.

820
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: So.

821
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: There's also, you know, of course, an opposite phenomenon to

822
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: the place Ebo effect, called the no sebo effect, which

823
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 3: is when like a patient believes that a treatment will

824
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 3: cause them harm and therefore it does.

825
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,959
Speaker 1: Gotcha. Yeah, It's so so fascinating, like what the brain

826
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: is capable of doing? And meanwhile, we still have this

827
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: large unanswered question mark looming over us. Us is it

828
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: actually a thing where you could use sound or radio

829
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: frequencies to create these these symptoms on purpose without them

830
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: actually knowing that that's what you're doing, right, Like could

831
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: you clandestinely create this or does there need to be

832
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: some sort of inciting incident where someone believes that they've

833
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: been the target of this in order to create it, Like,

834
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: is it going to be that that case of the

835
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: dancing Madness in Medieval Times? Not the restaurant, although that

836
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: would have been awesome.

837
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: I go to a restaurant called Dancing Madness.

838
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: Well, I'd go to Medieval Times and just seeing everyone

839
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: do the discounts.

840
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 2: I've been trying to talk to some people to go

841
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: to Medieval Times with me. Do you guys want to go?

842
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 3: I definitely would go.

843
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I actually talked about doing a thing where going and

844
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: visiting every single still existing Medieval Times location in North America.

845
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: There's one in Canada, I think, and the rest are

846
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: in the US.

847
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: I say, we you know, yeah, he went to every single.

848
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: That's where I got the idea.

849
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: But I feel like, maybe just for a test run,

850
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: we go to one.

851
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: There's one Atlanta, so we wouldn't have to go all

852
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: the way down to Orlando.

853
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: Let's do it now, Okay, yeah, tell you what.

854
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: We're gonna quickly go to Medieval Times, but we'll be

855
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 1: right back after this word from our sponsors.

856
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 3: Use a.

857
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: Man blue lost again?

858
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: Well that was great, but we did sit in the

859
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: wrong section.

860
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta say, guys, the food was a little

861
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: mid though.

862
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 1: No you you downed four turkey legs.

863
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 3: That's not true, for we didn't go, didn't really happen, Okay, fine, lies.

864
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: Noel, Noel has forgotten the rules of improv. Noel's a

865
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 1: no but kind of guy.

866
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: No but Medieval Times aside, this does remind us a

867
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 2: very important point about perspective, because when you are fortunate

868
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: privileged enough to attend Medieval Times, what you're seeing is

869
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: a show, a very loose historical reenactment or attempt thereof.

870
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: And so sometimes what people are saying when they're reporting

871
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: these symptoms is I think also arguably could be an

872
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 2: instance of social contagious behavior.

873
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 3: Right, well, you mentioned the dancing sickness. That also made

874
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 3: me think of like Salem witch trials.

875
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, yeah. Or if you want to talk about entertainment,

876
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: think about like a stage hypnotist.

877
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's happens at Renaissance Festive.

878
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: That's true, that's true.

879
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: I worked, I worked Renisce.

880
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: I've got to tell you, though, Jonathan, I saw a

881
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 3: stage hypnotist at the Georgia ren Fair and it was

882
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 3: pretty dang convincing. Yeah, you know, like, I don't think

883
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: the person that was up there was a plant. I

884
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 3: saw them rolling around later.

885
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: The social pressure of you don't want to disappoint the audience,

886
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: and the audience all wants to see you get up

887
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: and cluck like a chicken or whatever, and so there's

888
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: I think there's an element of persuasiveness that happens. And

889
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: you know, some people perhaps are are more easily influenced

890
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: than others. I think there are elements of that. I

891
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: think a lot of it does come down to social pressure.

892
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 2: Do you think tribal identification or group identification may play

893
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: a role. I think I am also one of you

894
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 2: have this group.

895
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: Probably or also maybe just a fear of if you

896
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: don't play the game, you get excluded from the group.

897
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 3: So are you saying though that it's like subconscious Like

898
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 3: if I were up there and I, you know, into

899
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 3: what you're saying, you know, being hypnotized, would would I

900
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: be like, I'm gonna fake this, I'm gonna put on

901
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 3: a show or I don't know between.

902
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know because I've never actually sat up there,

903
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: but I would think like maybe I don't know, maybe

904
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: I would sit up there and I had to have

905
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: no memory of it, and next thing you know, I

906
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: find out I was dancing like a maniac. I don't know,

907
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: but my instinct tells me that I would feel the

908
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: pressure to go along with it, because otherwise what I

909
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: would be doing is creating a bad.

910
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 3: Show in a spoil sport.

911
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: And like, I find that really that kind of thing,

912
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 1: despite the fact that I play a character called the

913
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: quizter and I reference to it as the crudgeon, right,

914
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: the cringiest segment in all a podcast.

915
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: Totally different guy, You're like Gary Oldman over here. I

916
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 2: had no idea that was you.

917
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: I don't like actual, real awkward situations in performances, right,

918
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 1: so I this is opening up and going well beyond

919
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: everything we're talking about. But like I don't like to

920
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: do I don't like to go to stand up comedy

921
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: stuff because I don't like it when there's someone in

922
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 1: the audience who suddenly thinks they're funnier than Oh god, yeah,

923
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: I hate that because I want to see the person

924
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: up on stage succeed every.

925
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 2: Time, yeah, every single person.

926
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: I never want to see failure. If it's failure, I

927
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 1: want it to be orchestrated failure. Like the mischief theater

928
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: folks out in England who do the play that goes wrong.

929
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 3: Right, As someone who's been in bands and done sound,

930
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: if I get a whiff that something is going wrong

931
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 3: technically in a live band performance, I feel it, Yes, Sally.

932
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: Right, So imagine that feeling. But you're the one up

933
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: on stage and everyone's looking at you. You might not

934
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 1: consciously think, oh, I have to do this or else

935
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: this show is going to be bad. You might feel

936
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: compelled to do it, and that, along with other elements,

937
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: convinces you to do it.

938
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: It becomes real. Let's say that the five of us Tari,

939
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, myself, and you listening along tonight. Let's say

940
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: we all work at the embassy in a very specific department.

941
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: Sure of us start reporting this malaise, these hard to

942
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 2: pend down symptoms. We're all feeling it, and you, as

943
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: the fifth person may just due to the nuances of

944
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: human social interaction, you may begin to not think you're

945
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: faking it, but you might start feeling it too, Yeah,

946
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: like does my head hurt?

947
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 3: And if your head does hurt, then this confirmation bias

948
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 3: yes could well even make it worse or start to

949
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 3: stack on additional you know, matching symptoms.

950
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: Right, So, I feel like we've talked around this a

951
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: lot and that we're kind of like all on the

952
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: same page here of this could very well be a

953
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: real thing. It could very well have been caused by

954
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: some directional phenomena that we have not yet identified.

955
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 3: Why was that on the table though in the first place.

956
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's because you know, it's Cuba. There

957
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: are Americans in Cuba, a country that traditionally has not

958
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: been on the best of turns with.

959
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: The United States as well.

960
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: And there's also the long association of Cuba with what

961
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: used to be the Soviet Union Cold warship. Yeah, it

962
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to Cold War stuff. Where

963
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: you're sitting there thinking, like and psychological warfare is certainly

964
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: a thing like that's not that's not up for discussion, syops.

965
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: That's a real thing that's been really engaged in over

966
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: years and years and years and years. Right, Like we

967
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: talked about how there are versions for law enforcement to

968
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: try and disperse crowds, there there are versions of like

969
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: even just dropping pamphlets over like World War One France

970
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: to try and inspire resistance.

971
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: Or like the ghost tapes in Vietnam, where there would

972
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 3: be speakers planted in trees playing the sounds of ancestors

973
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 3: supposedly from beyond the grave.

974
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: Which apparently it didn't work at all, right.

975
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: But it was.

976
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 2: It was a psyop the Asshong corpses in the Philippines

977
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 2: to encourage belief in that Philippine specific kind of vampire

978
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: s creature.

979
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,240
Speaker 3: I still don't fully understand the by a sonic weapon,

980
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 3: like why not relate it to something else? Like where

981
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 3: did that initial? I think it has to.

982
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: Be something that could potentially penetrate the walls of a

983
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 1: building while.

984
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 2: Being invisible, and something that could have an origin point

985
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: away from a very highly surveilled facility, right.

986
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: So it have to be something like a directional beam weapon, right,

987
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: and likely not a light based one, because light based

988
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: ones don't do so well when they encounter opaque surfaces

989
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: unless they make them catch on fire, in which case

990
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, someone's shooting a laser at us, and

991
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: we can tell, well, do these.

992
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 3: L rad devices? Are they loud? Like? Like it's folk focused,

993
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 3: so if you get hit by it, it's gonna feel

994
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 3: like you're losing your mind. But can you hear them

995
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 3: when they're being deployed.

996
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: Uh, that's an excellent question that I would imagine, yes,

997
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: but I don't know because I've never actually been one

998
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 1: when it was firing.

999
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: I bet you could hear the machinery. Yeah, you get

1000
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 2: your noises there. But then maybe if there's a safety

1001
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: maybe it's like how you add that bad smell to

1002
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,240
Speaker 2: some natural gas so that people know when the house

1003
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 2: is uh, and.

1004
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 1: When there's a leak, when there's gas leaks.

1005
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 2: So I forgot about maybe there's a maybe there's a

1006
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: sound within human hearing range that gets played so people

1007
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 2: can go, oh, snap, yeah, I gotta leave the protest.

1008
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: I would imagine there's probably a cone of effectiveness.

1009
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: There's a name for it. It's called like the cone

1010
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 3: of I literally just just found it. No, yeah, it's

1011
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 3: called like the cone of death or something like that.

1012
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 3: It's literally a term associated with these things. But these

1013
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 3: are also usually deployed in open spaces.

1014
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: It's like if you're doing crowd dispersement in like a

1015
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: public square, that kind of thing. You know, it's not

1016
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: usually something where you direct it and hope that someone

1017
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: inside a building can be impacted.

1018
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: Because another thing about pain, cone of pain like that.

1019
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: Oh man, there's my there's my metal band name.

1020
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, no more Dunce hats for us, you guys put

1021
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: on the cone of pain. Also, we have to just

1022
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: for a side note, uh, to get in front of

1023
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: the emails. We do have to answer part of that

1024
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 2: question regarding why people immediately jump to sonic weaponry or

1025
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: radio frequency weaponry one invisible right, too penetrative. The third

1026
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: thing would be, I argue precedent because you know, like

1027
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: you were saying, no, there are there are sonic disruption

1028
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 2: kind of devices that are proven to exist. There's also

1029
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 2: we talked about this in an earlier episode of Stuff

1030
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: they Don't want you to know. There's also at least

1031
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: a few cases of attempts at building some kind of

1032
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: microwave transmission or weaponized microwave transmission device. The Moscow signal

1033
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 2: was a microwave transmission between two point five and four gigahertz.

1034
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 2: Trying to be honest, that's just gobbledegook to me, you're

1035
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: the tech guy, But this was provably directed at the

1036
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: US embassy in Moscow back in the nineteen fifties all

1037
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 2: the way to seventy nine.

1038
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 3: Well, sure also to say that in twenty seventeen, a

1039
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 3: group of New Yorkers sued the NYPD for damages that

1040
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: resulted from sonic attack using these del rad type.

1041
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: Devices, not the bandic attack.

1042
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I don't know. I don't know them,

1043
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 3: but they So the NYPD has had to kind of

1044
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 3: like limit the use because they were arguing that this

1045
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 3: wasn't a weapon. But another case in Pittsburgh resulted in

1046
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 3: a seventy two thousand dollars award to a bystander who

1047
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 3: suffered permanent hearing loss back in two thousand and nine.

1048
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 3: So I think maybe the l RAD thing would be

1049
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 3: off the table because we know the effects those have

1050
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 3: and at worst it's going to be something like hearing loss,

1051
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 3: not permanent, you know, conditions and malaise or whatever.

1052
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1053
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: Look, intelligence communities are smaller than they look in the movies,

1054
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: and Havana is not the biggest city on the planets.

1055
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: Right with something, at least what we know about the

1056
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: size of an l RAD device, I think they would

1057
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: have found it.

1058
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's also we're getting into also the field

1059
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: of various agencies and militaries and such trying to hide

1060
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: behind this umbrella term of non lethal weapons.

1061
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 3: Yest also, are we potentially talking about an escalation of

1062
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 3: this type of technology that the general public isn't aware exists.

1063
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: Which is possible.

1064
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: It's also it's also entirely possible that you have official

1065
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: agencies working on R and D in these fields without

1066
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: first establishing that there is any efficacy to them R.

1067
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: Which happens all the time. That's the famous drawing board.

1068
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's build the thing and maybe it'll do

1069
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: what we're hoping it will do, even though we have

1070
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: no evidence that it can.

1071
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 2: And when Congress finally asked, then then some military industrial

1072
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: complex bureaucrat goes you know me, Senator, I mess around. Yeah,

1073
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 2: I like to get into it.

1074
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: You know, Hey, this is Jonathan from the Future. We

1075
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: already finished the episode, but it ran super duper long,

1076
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 1: so I have to put another ad break in here.

1077
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: So uh hey, hey, Noel and Ben and Jonathan from

1078
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: the Past, shut your traps for a second. We're gonna

1079
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: thank our sponsors.

1080
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 3: Dude.

1081
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, that was uncalled for. I thought, since

1082
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: you both are also the hosts of the very popular

1083
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: show Ridiculous History, where I sometimes appear and make your

1084
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: lives miserable.

1085
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 2: Regular Daniel day Lewis, I thought I would.

1086
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: Give you not a quiz. Don't worry, this is not

1087
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: a quiz. I'm not doing a quiz or oh my god,

1088
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: because it's the wrong show. But I thought I would

1089
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 1: mention something that is frequently talked about in the field

1090
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: of acoustic weapons, not specifically havevana syndromes unrelated to that,

1091
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: but in the idea of acoustic weaponry. That is an

1092
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: apocryphal So this is not a true one, but it's

1093
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: often reported as true, so much so that I found

1094
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: numerous citations of it as if it.

1095
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 2: Were true, which otherwise credible source.

1096
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: From otherwise well, I don't know about that.

1097
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: From arguably credible source from.

1098
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: People who are deeply into the art that I'll be

1099
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 1: talking about because I'm talking about bagpipes.

1100
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, wait, what all right?

1101
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: So in bagpiping circles and in various like Scottish and

1102
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: Celtic history blogs, there's this ongoing apocryphal story that in

1103
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: seventeen forty five, as part of a disarming act. When

1104
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, y'all might not know this, but the United

1105
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: Kingdom and Scotland have I mean Scotland's part of the

1106
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: United Kingdom but let's say, okay, England and Scotland have

1107
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: had a rather contentious relationship over the.

1108
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 2: Years, somewhat kind of a Hawaii USh situation.

1109
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 1: So in seventeen forty five, the English are like, okay,

1110
00:56:57,719 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: we've had enough of y'all. We're going to have a

1111
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: disarming acts so that you stopped being so pesky up

1112
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: on the northern reaches. And the story goes that part

1113
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: of that disarming Act was a they had made bagpipes forbidden,

1114
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: that you were not allowed to play bagpipes because bagpipes

1115
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: were being associated with uprisings well and High Highland troops, yes, right,

1116
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: like you would have pipers who would pipe the music

1117
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: as troops would be marching into battle, and so they

1118
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: were thought of as an literally literally an instrument of war,

1119
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: like an instrument of war. However, historian John Gibson, in

1120
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: his book Traditional Gaelic Bagpiping seventeen forty five to nineteen

1121
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: forty five argues that the text of the acts themselves

1122
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: never name bagpipes as being prohibited, Like there were a

1123
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: lot of pretty restrictive rules and regulations in these acts,

1124
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: but bagpipes just don't even get named in them, and

1125
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: that the pipers who are who are complaining about persecution

1126
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: were probably just dealing with people who are sick and

1127
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: tired of hearing that god awful noise. Hey.

1128
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: Also, one of the only things I know about bagpipes

1129
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: as a non bagpipeis is the group term. There's a

1130
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: group term for.

1131
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: A group of bagpipers.

1132
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: It's called a catterwall.

1133
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: That makes total said.

1134
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 3: I'm also lying, Oh.

1135
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: I had. I had some other collective noun names that

1136
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: I was coming up with, but none of them are

1137
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: mentionable on a family friendly podcast. Okay, look, I like

1138
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: bagpipe music at a distance.

1139
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 2: I like it when it's played well, and it's kind

1140
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 2: of a difficult thing to play right.

1141
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 3: It is you got to employ some circular breathing. I'm

1142
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 3: a big fan of the nineteen eighties band of the

1143
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,959
Speaker 3: Church in their song Under the Milky Way Tonight, which

1144
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 3: has a bagpipe solo in it get used to great effect.

1145
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: I like an unguarded moment. But that's a totally different

1146
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: song by them. Okay, it's the Church and there, but

1147
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: it's the one song by the Church I really like.

1148
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 2: I know, I just want to because we're on an

1149
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 2: audio podcast right now. I just want all of all

1150
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 2: of our fellow listeners to know that when Jonathan said,

1151
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 2: at guard moment, you kind of you kind of sway

1152
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: a little in your chair and just lift us this

1153
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 2: slide smile.

1154
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: It's mostly because my brain is like, was that the church?

1155
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: And what was the name of the song?

1156
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: Oh? You were seen?

1157
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: If you could get away with it? I was seeing

1158
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: if I can remember it, honestly, like that's done. That's

1159
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: what I was going for. But yeah, it's a fascinating topic,

1160
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: acoustic weapons in general, and this idea of not just

1161
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 1: acoustic weapons, but just being able to create these the

1162
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,919
Speaker 1: sense of unease all the way up to the point

1163
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: where you have things like headaches or disorientation and whether

1164
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: or not that's a real thing. And the ultimate thing

1165
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: we can say is it's it's still unknown, but that

1166
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: there's a distinct lack of evidence, which again doesn't mean

1167
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't exist. It just means that we can't have

1168
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: a definitive answer, and anyone who is giving you a

1169
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: definitive answer is likely either just not being completely forthright

1170
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: or they're you know, they they've are aready picked a

1171
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: side and they're just going with it, and at.

1172
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: Very least they need to do a little more homework.

1173
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is why again I say critical thinking and compassion.

1174
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: Those are the two things I always argue for it

1175
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: with tech stuff because you know, you need to ask

1176
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: those follow up questions, You need to investigate what's actually happening.

1177
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:20,479
Speaker 1: But still show compassion to the people who are saying

1178
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: this unless it just turns out that they're just running

1179
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: a scam, in which case they don't deserve your compassion.

1180
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: But yeah, most people aren't running a scam.

1181
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 2: When they start trying to sell you a special ear muffs. Yeah,

1182
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 2: hats with a special lining.

1183
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: So like if someone is if someone's arguing to you

1184
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: that they feel horrible because there's a cell phone tower

1185
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: that's half a mile away from their house, be compassionate

1186
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: towards them. Sure, don't necessarily question them about the thing,

1187
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: because chances are it's not going to help you at all.

1188
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: It's not gonna it's not going to change their mind.

1189
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: But like, don't start buying into it necessarily either. But

1190
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: if it's someone who's like, hey, no, you need to

1191
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: invest in en FTS because I've poured all my money

1192
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: in en f ts, I need you to pour your

1193
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: money in NFT. So I can get the heck out.

1194
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: Those are the people who don't deserve your compassion, okay,

1195
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 1: but they do deserve your critical thinking.

1196
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go, well done. We also do know.

1197
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 2: I would argue that the tantalizing thing about this, the

1198
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: really nammy of this kind of claim, Havana syndrome in particular,

1199
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: is that looking at a wide enough scope in this

1200
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: cognitive space, there's just enough stuff that is true provably

1201
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 2: to give us that what if moment.

1202
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: And also we've all experienced, you know, technology being able

1203
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: to do such incredible things that it gets easy to

1204
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 1: believe it can do anything. But yeah, critically, you know.

1205
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 3: What's the expression that you always used, Ben like, technology

1206
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 3: past a certain point is indistinguishable from magic.

1207
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 2: Arthur C.

1208
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 3: Clark. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think it's easy to

1209
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 3: get in that headspace.

1210
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: It's true, can you build a phone? Because we cannot.

1211
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have fallen victim to this very same thing too,

1212
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: where I've bought into the hype of some one's pitch,

1213
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, wow, that does sound incredible. I

1214
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: can't wait to get hold of one of those things,

1215
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: and then ultimately the delivery is does not meet expectations.

1216
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: But you know, in most cases, I mean every now

1217
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: and then you do get a revolutionary kind of technology

1218
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: that does change the game.

1219
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 3: More a revolutionary repurposing of existing technology, yes.

1220
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 1: Or repackaging, yeah, exactly, Like I would argue the iPhone

1221
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: is one of those, right. It was not the first smartphone,

1222
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: It wasn't.

1223
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 3: Even her first synthesis of all the things.

1224
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: It was, and like multi touch, I think was one

1225
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: of the big things, the automatic change from portrait to landscape.

1226
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 1: These sort of little details ended up making a huge

1227
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: impact and then redefine the way we access.

1228
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 3: But that's also a combination of different technologies that are

1229
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 3: put together.

1230
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, which Steve Jobs even said in his presentation. He said,

1231
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,840
Speaker 1: he said, We've got three products we're going to introduce

1232
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: to you today. One of them is a telephone, one

1233
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: of them is a pocket computer, and I forget what

1234
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:58,919
Speaker 1: the third one was. And then he cycles through those

1235
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: three different things over and over. Have you picked it

1236
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: up yet? They're all the same thing, And then he

1237
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: introduces the iPhone.

1238
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 3: And Apple is a marketing company.

1239
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, Apple is a very successful marketing company.

1240
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: Exactly.

1241
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: I love this point about repurposing because a lot of

1242
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: times it's not the person who's first to the post

1243
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,360
Speaker 2: and the idea or the creation of the thing. It's

1244
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 2: the person or group who makes it appealing to a large,

1245
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 2: massive piece.

1246
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 3: And accessible, whether it be about us. That's why user

1247
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 3: interfaces are so incredibly important. Design is its own field.

1248
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 2: UX is a real job.

1249
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: I've often said, like Apple is tops when it comes

1250
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: to user interface, Like that's why you can hand an

1251
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: iPhone to a three year old and they can figure

1252
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: it out in like seconds.

1253
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 2: Flat and never give it back.

1254
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: But you hand an Android device to someone and they're like, oh,

1255
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: you got to be an engineer to do it, Like, yeah,

1256
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: it's almost like engineers made it.

1257
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 3: A friend of mine is an Android guy, and I

1258
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 3: was trying to like look for a Touch Tunes song,

1259
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 3: and the way the keyboard was laid out, we had

1260
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 3: a hard time figuring it out. Yeah, I'm sure I

1261
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 3: would if I played with it long enough, but it

1262
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 3: just isn't intuitive. Now I know we've strayed from what

1263
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 3: the original topic is. We wrap that up beautifully, and

1264
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 3: this is an absolutely valuable conversation right of itself.

1265
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: Well, we never get to see each other, so we

1266
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: got to talk as well as true.

1267
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: Also, yes, yes, we know even though we're macfanboys, we

1268
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 2: know that Linux is.

1269
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: None of my listeners care.

1270
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 2: Probably, well, that's not true.

1271
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: They Actually I have some.

1272
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 3: Big thing that I think is interesting about the Mac

1273
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 3: versus PC argument is the PCs have long been capable

1274
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 3: of doing the stuff that Max are packaged with. Yeah,

1275
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,479
Speaker 3: but it required a lot of twisting, and that's and

1276
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: knowing extra things.

1277
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: I think the Microsoft approach and the Google approach is

1278
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: that you have engineers developing things, and ultimately it works

1279
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: great if you think like an engineer, but if you

1280
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: sure if your mainstream public Apple creates stuff that works

1281
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: really great, and they're both able to get the stuff

1282
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 1: done that and they both do it really well. But

1283
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: Apple is like, let's do it in a way where

1284
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 1: it's just intuitive and makes sense to the general person,

1285
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,439
Speaker 1: the general user, and Microsoft or Google are like, let's

1286
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: do it in a way that makes sense to me

1287
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: an engineer, because I'm assuming everyone else thinks the way

1288
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: I do.

1289
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 2: Of course, this is how sorting should work.

1290
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,439
Speaker 3: And outlook, yeah, let's not go there. I just walked

1291
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 3: down the street for that one, So outlook.

1292
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: That's another. Maybe I'll have you beat Oh wait, that's right,

1293
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: that's right, Jonathan, thank you so much for having seriously Yeah, man, and.

1294
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 3: I love all the places this conversation went with the

1295
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 3: Vana syndrome stuff, I think where do we land, guys,

1296
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 3: it is possible, maybe not probable.

1297
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's where I'm moving and unproven. I'm

1298
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: at a A. I sure hope those people feel better.

1299
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what caused it.

1300
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 3: And do we have any follow up with these people?

1301
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 3: Is there like an update there?

1302
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: There have been updates over the years, but they're just

1303
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: as inconclusive, right. It's it's the same thing where it's like, well,

1304
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 1: because of these symptoms are so vague and.

1305
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 3: They are are we talking like debilitating reduction and quality

1306
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 3: of life or is it very person the person.

1307
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: There's the variation as well, which again makes it really

1308
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 1: hard to say, like do they actually have a shared

1309
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: experience or all these all just individual uh and and

1310
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 1: separate cases that don't have any connective tissue other than

1311
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: they all worked in the same place at around the

1312
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: same time.

1313
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: And you know, yeah, which is not the most concrete

1314
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 2: of the demographics, right, because it's not like we're talking

1315
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 2: about people who work in as bestis removal, and we

1316
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 2: have specific conditions from that because we can't you know,

1317
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 2: in that case, you can find the asbestos. We know

1318
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 2: about that substance, but here you you can't really find

1319
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 2: the thing. You pen down. And I would also add

1320
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: not to get too conspiratorial. One of the big issues

1321
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 2: with savannah savannah syndrome.

1322
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 3: That's a different syndrome.

1323
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: That's that's that's if you find yourself at midnight in

1324
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: the Garden of Good.

1325
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 3: Drunk on too many frozen you know, they're crazy spring decorations.

1326
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 2: Guys, remember when we went to medieval times, whatever happened.

1327
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 2: So that's our official report, look at us. I would

1328
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,000
Speaker 2: say one of the more conspiratorial aspects of this, which

1329
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 2: is probably is true to a degree, is that the

1330
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 2: politicization of this thing when it became a hobby horse

1331
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 2: for certain parts of Congress. Right now, this is my

1332
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 2: cause that I fight for. I think that may have

1333
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 2: stymied the science and may have stymied honest investigations.

1334
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: Well, and we have to face the facts that in

1335
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: the United States, when we have changes in administration at

1336
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: the top level, then a lot of yeah, a lot

1337
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: of things like funding and stuff all goes up in

1338
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 1: the air, and then like it can mean that that

1339
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: research gets set back because you have different people in

1340
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 1: charge and different priorities, and yeah, so it's it's a

1341
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: big complicated issue and again, like to really get down

1342
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: to the bottom of it would require some ethically questionable activities,

1343
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: so which.

1344
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,960
Speaker 2: I'm fine with. I mean, sure you are, sign me up,

1345
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 2: but yeah, put us in the game.

1346
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: So if you want to check out stuff, they don't

1347
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: want you to know. In case you haven't been listening

1348
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: that that show's been around for quite some time. There's

1349
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: an incredible backlog of material and y'all continue to put

1350
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:24,680
Speaker 1: out fantastic episodes. This was phenomenal as a fantastic and

1351
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: fun conversation. I find these invigorating because often you know,

1352
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: I'm the only person on an episode, and I enjoyed

1353
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:35,040
Speaker 1: the Yeah, I love synthesizing information and then communicating what

1354
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: I've learned. I love that. So don't get it wrong, but.

1355
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 3: I too love synthesizers.

1356
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: It's when you were on a MOGA episode, I believe,

1357
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: once upon a time. But yeah, having the chance to

1358
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: chat with other people always is one of the greatest

1359
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 1: joys in my career as a podcaster. So thank you

1360
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: both for and to the dearly departed but not actually dead.

1361
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 3: Dearly hard skip to beat.

1362
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:58,759
Speaker 2: Dearly departed the building.

1363
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, see dearly departed at the studio.

1364
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: I live on to podcast another day. Thank you for

1365
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 2: having us here, Jonathan. As you know, obviously we are

1366
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 2: huge fans of yours. You did give us the name

1367
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 2: stuff they don't want you to know. Despite that, here

1368
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 2: at the end of the year, we want to give

1369
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 2: you this gift. You are forgiven for giving us such

1370
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 2: a cartoonishly long named for the show.

1371
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 3: I have did Wick for sure.

1372
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: I have often heard you complain. I believe it was

1373
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: south By Southwest where you went on a on a

1374
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 1: good five minute rant about that screen.

1375
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 3: And also, just so you know, we still often direct

1376
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,639
Speaker 3: our complaints department Jonathan Radio.

1377
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 2: Dot Com twenty four to seven.

1378
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember with nor somehow we still get them.

1379
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 2: I remember, I know, we've got to get out of here.

1380
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 2: I remember when we came up with that, and we

1381
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:56,799
Speaker 2: thought it was just a hilarious, cheeky continuation of the pranks.

1382
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 2: And I think we mentioned on air NOL. But uh,

1383
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 2: there was a time way after the fact when Jonathan

1384
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 2: and I were talking and I said, oh, yeah, and

1385
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 2: you know how we set up that thing where we

1386
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 2: made you our complaint department. And this was like a

1387
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 2: year after we started doing this.

1388
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,759
Speaker 3: Somebody say you something at some point, right, I don't remember.

1389
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I ignore a lot of emails.

1390
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 2: So my favorite part of that was when you just

1391
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 2: rolled with it and you went, wait what, Yeah, I say, oh,

1392
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 2: we told you about that, right, Well, it's a good thing.

1393
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 2: You're cool with it. I was trying to just frame

1394
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 2: it that, I mean, to be.

1395
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: Fair, Josh Clark had done the same thing, so oh

1396
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: hattie yeah, so good old Josh. Well, y'all, I hope

1397
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode. Check out Stuff they Don't want

1398
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 1: you to Know, and I will talk to you again

1399
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more

1400
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:03,520
Speaker 1: podcasts from heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1401
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.