1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and Courture. 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: Latino US its Latin Latino USA. 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm Maria in Nojosa. We bring you stories that are 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: underreported but that mattered to you, overlooked by the rest 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: of the media, and while the country is struggling to 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: deal with these, we listen to the stories of Black 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: and Latino Studio United Latino Front, a cultural renaissance organizing 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: at the forefront of the movement. I'm Maria Inojosa. 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 3: No bayan. 10 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 4: Objects, whether we wanted it to admit it or not, 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 4: have great importance in our lives. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: Nojosa Today. Puerto Rican visual artist pe and the Accumulation 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: of Memory. The art that Pepon makes is not something 15 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: that you just see, You actually experience it because his 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: work is big installations, full of objects, full of sounds, 17 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: of images that take over entire rooms, full of layers 18 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: of Latino culture and memorabilia. Each of Peppono's installations can 19 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: take him three to four years to build, and it's 20 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: in part because of the intricacy of his creations that 21 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: his work is rarely on view in museums or galleries. 22 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, though, the New Museum in New 23 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: York City hosted the most comprehensive exhibition from the Puerto 24 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: Rican artist to date. Though Pepon doesn't like to call 25 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: it a retrospective. 26 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 4: Immediately what comes around It's like, Okay, I must be 27 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: dying and nobody's telling me, because like, why will I 28 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 4: get a retrospective now? 29 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 3: Way too early. 30 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Born in Santurse, the home of several art museums in 31 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico, pepponos Sorio's artistic career followed a pretty unconventional path. 32 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: He was nineteen years old when he moved to New 33 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: York City. 34 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 3: The Republic of the South Bronx, I call not even 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 3: New York City. 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: And he studied sociology at Lehmann College in the Bronx. 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: In terms of his art, Pepone's life experiences accumulate in 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: the spaces that he decides to build. From a barber 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: shop where he got his very first haircut. 40 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 4: My father was next to me, and it was a 41 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 4: traumatic experience. 42 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: To the scene of a crime like the many he 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: witnessed as a caseworker for Child Protective Services. 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 4: And I could stand at the door frame and I 45 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 4: could tell you exactly what was going on in the Holm. 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: Latino USA Senior producer Marta Martinez toured the exhibition mik 47 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: Rason Latiente My Beating Heart with pepon and talk to 48 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: him about his childhood in Puerto Rico, how he decided 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: to become an artist, and his love for collecting objects. 50 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 4: I'm Peponoso, I'm the artist, and I also teach Tyler 51 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 4: School of Art. We are in My Beating Heart mik 52 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 4: Rasson Latiente at the. 53 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 3: New Museum in New York City. What we're experiencing. 54 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 4: It's the exhibition of my work from the nineteen nineties 55 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 4: and some from the present. It's a survey and a 56 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 4: mostly large installation, big work that has to do with 57 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 4: the development of my practice in connection with the LATINX community. 58 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 4: So this is a state of preservation. And it's a 59 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 4: collection of a couple of dozen knickknacks, all of the 60 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 4: same color, and it is that idea of the preserving. 61 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 4: All the pieces are covered in plastic placed on a shelf, 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 4: and the shelf has this mantle that sets embroidered the 63 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 4: word state of preservation. I was born in Santurda. It's 64 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 4: a town in Puerto Rico, and I was born in 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 4: nineteen fifty five. Porto Nuevo, which is specifically the place 66 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 4: where I live, is an urbanization. 67 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: An urbanization, it's just basically an. 68 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 4: Urban setting that started. It was almost like an experiment 69 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 4: in Puerto Rico. I remember vividly that my family were 70 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 4: the only dark skinned people in the neighborhood. My father 71 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 4: worked in a North American company and he was a stucker. 72 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 4: He had the build of a body of a working man. 73 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 4: He just stuck the warehouse. It was an oil refinery. 74 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 4: My uncle was a policeman. Then my grandfather had stroke 75 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 4: and I remember him after the stroke. I don't remember 76 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 4: him before that, and so this is like a wounded man. 77 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 4: And those were the main figures. I really wanted to 78 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 4: believe that I didn't have that macho experience. 79 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: Although my father took me to the barber for the 80 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 3: first time. 81 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 4: And I sat in one of those chairs that is 82 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 4: like a little support for little kids. I remember sitting 83 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 4: there and feeling that I was initiated into something. It 84 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 4: was it felt like a ritual to me, and there 85 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 4: were older men around, and the barber he started to 86 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 4: begin the process of cutting my hair, and I felt 87 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 4: very uncomfortable because I also felt in a way that 88 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 4: I had been strangled by that cloth that they put 89 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 4: around your neck. And then I stood there and I 90 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 4: can see myself in the mirrors, in the front mirror, 91 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 4: and all I saw was my head. 92 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: My father was next to me, and then. 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 4: The I started with the clippers, and the sound of 94 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 4: the buzzer and the clips was in electricity and all 95 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 4: that stuff. I'd say, just wait a second, this is 96 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 4: way too much for me, and I started to cry. 97 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 4: My father he was disappointed, but he wasn't necessarily judgmental. 98 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 4: They did finish the haircut, but it wasn't a good job. 99 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 4: When I looked at the guy and I just thought, 100 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 4: there is something wrong here, and this guy doesn't know 101 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 4: how to cut hair. It wasn't until much later that 102 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: I realized that he didn't know how to cut kinky 103 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 4: hair because I am of African descent more so than 104 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 4: anything else. 105 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: And that's what I was crying. 106 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 4: But also it was a little bit of a shame 107 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 4: for my father because he expected me, at age. 108 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: Five, to take pain and I was not totally into that. 109 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 4: My father goes very dark skin and with almost like 110 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 4: straight hair. 111 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 3: So there was also. 112 00:06:54,640 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 4: That idea that my father, somehow somewhere never admitted that 113 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 4: he was black because he had straight hair. 114 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: My mother was a light skin, very light skin, and. 115 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 4: So we were in a family that raise was not 116 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 4: an issue. Luckily enough, I grew up in the sixties, 117 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 4: so I started to realize that my sense of self 118 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 4: as a person of African descent was very different from 119 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 4: my family in. 120 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 3: Terms of hair texture. 121 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 4: I never questioned that they were not of African descent. 122 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 4: I knew that somehow, somewhere they weren't the other. And 123 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 4: so you see the combination of the intersection of class 124 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 4: and raised and all those mixed signals that I received 125 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 4: both from my parents. I was surrounded by women. The 126 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 4: landscape of the memory that I have of the women 127 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 4: in my family were a very strong women, which actually 128 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 4: overpowered the presence of men. My sister, my mom, my aunts, 129 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 4: my grandmother was a very strong woman, very strong, and 130 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 4: so I remember that a lot of the men who 131 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 4: were in the neighborhood will make fun of other women, 132 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 4: and I had social respects for them. The interesting thing 133 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 4: is that the majority of the men that I grew 134 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: up used that as a power tool to overimpose their 135 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 4: beliefs into another gender. And I never bought that deep 136 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 4: inside and know there's something wrong with that, But I 137 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 4: think that what happens is that once you get to 138 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 4: the place where you overimpose or you feel powerful because 139 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 4: of your gender assignment or I don't know, then it's 140 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 4: hard to move back and try to retract yourself from 141 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 4: that belief. So then it becomes an exaggeration, it becomes 142 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 4: a living in a false belief reality, and it's really 143 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: hard to undo that. My father had an extreme inclination 144 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 4: for the arts. My father did some really beautiful drawings 145 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 4: that I still have and portraits, mostly of my mother. 146 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 4: My mother was a baker and she bakes cakes for 147 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 4: everyone in the community. 148 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: So my mother was. 149 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 4: The one who if you were having a wedding, my 150 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 4: mother was the place to go to. And the production 151 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 4: of cake baking was a celebration in the family and 152 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 4: one that I was looking forward. These things lasted for 153 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 4: like about a weekend, so it started like on Thursday. 154 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 4: I'll see my mother baking that I still have her mixer, 155 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 4: and my father will then build these amazing structures that 156 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 4: were part of the thing. I was actually the one 157 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 4: working with the decorations of the cake, and so it 158 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 4: was a big celebration. The cakes were gigantic, gigantic, and 159 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 4: we had to take them out, imagining in a small 160 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 4: house what it meant. 161 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: To take a cake out. 162 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 4: That was always interested in surfaces and transforming surfaces that 163 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 4: I remember, which is basically what we did with the cake. I' 164 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 4: i'd never I can't even bacer cake these days, but 165 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 4: I can decorate them so that in itself that's just 166 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 4: for me, which is basically sculpture one on one and 167 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 4: painting one on one in academic sense. And that experience 168 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 4: when I came to New York City served me. 169 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 3: As the foundation for the work that I wanted to do. 170 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: I wanted it to create a space where the architecture 171 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 4: was somehow dissolved by the presence of the artwork, that 172 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 4: when you were standing in front of the work, somehow 173 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 4: somewhere you forget that you're in a museum, and so 174 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 4: as you move in through the exhibition, there is this 175 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 4: sense of standing there and collectively experiencing this and witnessing 176 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 4: something in front of other. 177 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 3: People or next to other people. 178 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 4: La b Albiano si Joda. It's where we are standing 179 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: right now is a barbershop. See the walls who are 180 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 4: in pink, which goes back to this idea of the 181 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 4: assignment of color based on gender. 182 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 3: Photograph of my father. 183 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 4: It's smack in the middle of the whole thing, and 184 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 4: it's the vulnerability of the body. 185 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: The wounded man on the wall. It says, per mare, 186 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: forgive me mother. 187 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 4: It's a tattoo, a large format tattoo and goes back 188 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 4: again to this idea of forgive me Mother in a 189 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 4: form of a mural, but it's really a tattoo that 190 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 4: I see in a lot of men. There is a 191 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 4: big pull table and there's also an empty chair that 192 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 4: was used for haircuts during the opening and also haircuts 193 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 4: during community Day that we celebrated here, so we brought 194 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: barbers for real and gave free haircuts in here. If 195 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 4: we look at the work, we understand the strength that 196 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 4: men have, but also we need. 197 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 3: To look at the vulnerability of men. 198 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 4: All the work that you see around here, it's paying 199 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 4: attention to individual stories of men that I came across 200 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 4: in the making of this work. 201 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 3: Images of men. 202 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 4: All over in different places, hopcaps because I always said 203 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 4: that men pay more attention to cars than they paid 204 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 4: to their families. 205 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 5: What about the mirrors. 206 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 4: The mirrors in the exhibition is basically a way of 207 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 4: seeing yourself, but also seeing yourself in a very distorted way. 208 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: You know. 209 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 4: It's almost like a funhouse kind of a mirror position. 210 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 4: So I left put Too Rico in nineteen seventy five. 211 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 4: I left put Too Rico because I felt that as 212 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 4: a working class person, my future was somehow somewhere designed. 213 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 4: I had these ideas that I wanted it to do 214 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: more than it was expected of me, and I knew 215 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 4: that I could, but the limitations in the island were 216 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 4: pretty big. 217 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 3: I was eighteen at. 218 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 4: That time, and the progressives thinking that I had as 219 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 4: a citizen with somehow not fitting with the rest of 220 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 4: the neighborhood and the rest of things were going on, 221 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 4: and so I convinced my parents that I wanted to 222 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: come to school to New York City. I didn't come 223 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 4: with the idea that I was going to become an artist. 224 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 4: I basically went for sociology and my parents were reluctant, 225 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 4: but I think that somehow somewhere they realized that Porto 226 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 4: Rico wasn't the place for me, and it had nothing 227 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 4: to do with the American dream. I didn't come for 228 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 4: any of that stuff. I came here to expand and 229 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 4: to liberate myself from that colonization, from the sense of 230 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 4: being colonized. And so I began to have a conversation 231 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 4: with my aunt that I wanted it to come here 232 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: just for a summer and test and see what this 233 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 4: was like. 234 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: And by the way, I only spoke English in the 235 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 3: present tense. It wasn't until. 236 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 6: Three years later that I started using the past and 237 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 6: the future tense. 238 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 4: You know. It was like, I go, now that kind 239 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 4: of a language. But I was just like, I'm going 240 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 4: to go to college. I don't care. And that was 241 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 4: also the time of affirmative action, which would never ever 242 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 4: happen now. There was a lot of support for students, 243 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: and I got a scholarship from the South Bronx Agency. 244 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 4: I basically went for sociology. I get admitted and then 245 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 4: I finished my degree in Lehman College nineteen seventy eight 246 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine. I began to create associations with African 247 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 4: Americans and all my friends were African American. 248 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 6: Imagine me of the present tense with African Americans. We 249 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 6: had a great time. 250 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 4: It was the group of people that I felt that 251 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 4: somehow I have some real parallels and connections. My experience 252 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 4: working in United States, basically in New York City and 253 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 4: the South Bronx was what. 254 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: I called born again New York. 255 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 4: I saw the people, I realized what it meant, and 256 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 4: I began to notice that history was written by pro 257 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 4: Ricans in the island and per weakens in the South 258 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 4: Bronx and the United States were forcing the way. 259 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: In because it was very difficult. 260 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 4: When I came to Manhattan, I always felt like a tourist. 261 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 4: I never felt like I belonged there. 262 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 3: Always I felt like. 263 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: I just went to these places to see and to 264 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 4: acquired information, and then I will go back to the 265 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 4: South Bronx on the train, on the D train, and 266 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 4: that's for me, was like, Yeah, this is home, this 267 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 4: is where I fit. I'm in Philadelphia and I don't 268 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 4: feel like at home. And it's been twenty three years 269 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 4: and I just still don't feel like I'm home. 270 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: This is my. 271 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 4: Place, the Bronx. I was a caseworker. I worked for 272 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 4: many years with the Department of Human Services called Special 273 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 4: Services for Children, which dealt with child abuse and neglect, 274 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 4: and I visited a lot of homes doing investigations about 275 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 4: child abuse and neglect. And I'm saying that I visited 276 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 4: a lot of homes because this exhibition and my work 277 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 4: from then on as an artist, it's all about homes. 278 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: At that time, I was. 279 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 4: Able to stand in on the doorframe, which I find 280 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 4: it so amazing in New York City that people shots 281 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 4: immediately after they walk in for whatever reason. But when 282 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 4: you leave that door open, there is something that is 283 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 4: happening on the outside in the hallway and something that 284 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 4: is happening in the inside that there is a tension 285 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 4: and a beautiful composition of two worlds coming together. You 286 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 4: see when you walk in the neighborhood, you know the exterior. 287 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 3: I know the interior of all those homes. 288 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 4: It was important to me, But then I realized that 289 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 4: social work doesn't work at that time, it just simply 290 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 4: doesn't work. And in retrospect, I realized that the institution 291 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 4: was the problem for me. I had ideas, I saw realities, 292 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 4: but the alternative to those realities were very much filtered 293 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 4: and control by institutions. 294 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 3: And by the court. 295 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 4: When I saw possibilities, the court gave us very few 296 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 4: options to resolve those possibilities, and I was constantly fighting 297 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 4: back to the point that I just thought, this is 298 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 4: just a place that I'm not going to win the fight, 299 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 4: and I left and I became a full time artist. 300 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 4: How did I do it? I have no idea, but 301 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: what I remember from the very beginning of this transition 302 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 4: was that I come from a family that have a 303 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 4: really strong work ethics, and it doesn't matter what happens, 304 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 4: you'll find your way out of it. I was able 305 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 4: to get a lot of support from people. I did 306 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 4: a lot of art residencies, I did a lot of 307 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 4: odd jobs. I did a lot of stuff, but my 308 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 4: sense of curiosity never died. The scene of a crime 309 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 4: it's nineteen ninety three and it is my interpretation of 310 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 4: a crime scene as I saw it. I've worked with 311 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 4: two detectives from New York City on East Harlem, and 312 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 4: it really became the nominator of a lot of crime 313 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 4: scenes that I saw while I was visiting with the detectives. 314 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 4: It's also a Hollywood film set, and it really speaks 315 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 4: about how we see ourselves and how other sees us. 316 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 3: It is a piece that it's fairly large it's. 317 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: About twelve feet hyde by ten feet deep, and it's 318 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 4: a family environment with lots and lots of different imagery 319 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 4: that it's commonly seen in some Latinos' homes. There's a 320 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 4: welcome matt that says welcome only if you can understand 321 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 4: that it has taken years of pain to gather into. 322 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 3: Our homes our most valuable processions. 323 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 4: But the greater pain is to see how in the 324 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 4: movies others make fun of the way that we live. 325 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 4: I always begin to collect things, but I collect them 326 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 4: only when I have an idea of where they're going 327 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 4: to be placed. And from that experience as a case worker, 328 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 4: a lot of the objects that were around told me stories. 329 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 4: People tells me stories, and I begin to translate to 330 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 4: stories in a way that visually makes sense, but also 331 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: they create a dialogue with the work. This is nothing new. 332 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 4: This is the tradition and the practice of my grandmother, 333 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 4: the practice of my mother and my father. 334 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 3: With all his tools in the cabinets and all this stuff. 335 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 3: What I really wanted. 336 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 4: It to do was to bring that into the work 337 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 4: and somehow make a case of how for us objects, 338 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 4: whether we wanted it to admit it or not, have 339 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 4: great importance in our lives. When we go to our parents' 340 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 4: house if they live in a traditional home, those are 341 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 4: sicking fires that constantly pop up and reminds us of 342 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 4: our childhood and our place in the environment that we 343 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 4: grew up. And I think that is extremely important in 344 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 4: order to process your life, but also process your past 345 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 4: and what I call the landscape of memory in your life. 346 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 4: I also have to say that I'm I was always 347 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 4: ashamed of my mother's nick knacks. I was always ashamed 348 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: of my grandmother's nick knacks, and I always hid them. 349 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 3: In the house. 350 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 4: Every time my friends come in, I will open the 351 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 4: drawers and I put all the kinds of neck neags, 352 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 4: and my mother will. 353 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 3: Get really upset and I'll say please. When they leave, 354 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 3: I'll take them back and I'll put them exactly the 355 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 3: same way. 356 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: And little by little I realized the place of my 357 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 4: mother's memory and the importance of her memory through saving 358 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 4: evidence of the process in which his family went through 359 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 4: New Yorrekans save a lot of objects because it's the 360 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 4: way of connecting to the past, but it's also connecting 361 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 4: to the island and all the things that are important 362 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 4: to them. And then I realized that, and I just 363 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 4: thought I undermined my mom's philosophy in life, and that's 364 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 4: when I started to work with objects. For me, seeing 365 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 4: all this work on the one roof reminds me of 366 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 4: the accumulation of memory, accumulation of objects. The idea is 367 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 4: that I wanted the people to experience the objects in 368 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 4: a collective way, and the objects also in a very 369 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 4: intimate way. 370 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: And I was with art students and they were crying. 371 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 3: A lot of them were. 372 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 4: Literally sobbing in front of the installation. And that's a 373 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 4: great responsibility that I have. And I started to talk 374 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 4: to them, and what it occurred to me is that 375 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 4: when you see this exhibition, it really summons the spirits 376 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 4: of your ancestors, right and in a way it goes 377 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 4: back again to this tradition, this African tradition. But you're 378 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 4: standing there and you feel that grandmother, great grandmother and 379 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 4: great grandfathers are coming with you because it's in the work. 380 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 4: It is this the accumulation. It's all the tradition that 381 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 4: they used to have and how that moves forward and somehow, 382 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 4: whether you wanted to admit it or not, they are 383 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 4: part of your reality today. What I love about this exhibition. 384 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 4: It has so many Latinos coming in. 385 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: While we're standing in the installation called La Brabriano seora 386 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 2: or you Don't Cry at the barbershop, a young artist 387 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: approaches pepon Is. The young woman tells Pepon that her 388 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: father recently passed away. Pepon says he's sorry about her 389 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: loss and asks whether he can do anything to help. 390 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: You helped, she says, by making this installation to my. 391 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 5: Passa Pasa told them in connectsib Is young It's it's 392 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 5: like an agreement, you know normally. 393 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: People tells her. He's surprised about people's reaction to the exhibition. 394 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: A lot of them cry, and I don't know why, he. 395 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 3: Says, are you not young? Look at But in those 396 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 3: bas mm hmmm. 397 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 2: I do know why, the young woman says, because we 398 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 2: see ourselves in it. We see our history, we see 399 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: our culture, we see ourselves. 400 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: But it most the historia, but. 401 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 3: Not bemos. 402 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: You need. 403 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 4: H so many Latinos coming in and participating, and it's 404 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 4: it is the reason why I began to create work 405 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 4: outside of the museum setting, because I felt that my 406 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 4: people were not represented, and I felt that when I 407 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 4: went to the museums. I didn't see myself people that 408 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 4: looked like me in the process of all this, And 409 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 4: now I'm standing here and I see so many coming 410 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 4: in and being curious, kind of about rewarding and convincing 411 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 4: at the same time. 412 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: That was Puerto Rican artist pepon Or Sodio speaking about 413 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: his career and his latest exhibition, nicoasson Latente My Beating Heart, 414 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: at the New Museum in New York City. This episod 415 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: was produced by Marta Martinez, It was edited by Andrea 416 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: Lopez Grusado, and it was mixed by Julia Caruso. The 417 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: Latino USA team also includes Victori Estrada, Rinaldo, leanoz Junior, 418 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: ri mar Marquez, Mike Sargent, Nor Saudi, and Nancy Trujillo. 419 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: Bennilee Ramirez is our co executive producer. Our director of 420 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: engineering is Stephanie Lebau, Additional engineering support by gabrielle Abiaz 421 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: and JJ Carubin. Our marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our 422 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: theme music was composed by Zeniel Roubinos. I'm your host 423 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: and co executive producer marieo Josa join us again on 424 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: our next episode. In the meantime, look for us on 425 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,640 Speaker 1: social media and remember notteoa, yes munca. 426 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 4: Bayi Latino USA is made possible in part by the 427 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 4: Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front lines of 428 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 4: social change worldwide, the John Dee and Catherine T. 429 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 3: MacArthur Foundation, and Agnes Gunn