Speaker 1: It's I Do Part two. I'm one of your celebrity mentors,
Speaker 1: Jen Fessler. You know me from the Real Housewives of
Speaker 1: New Jersey and the podcast I co host to Jersey Jays.
Speaker 1: I have been having so much fun on this podcast,
Speaker 1: getting to chat with people who found love in their
Speaker 1: chapter two and today my guests are my dear friends,
Speaker 1: an amazing couple. Everyone loves them. You know them from
Speaker 1: Real Housewives of New Jersey. Please help me welcome Margaret
Speaker 1: Joseph's and Joe Binigno.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, we're so happy to be here. Hi,
Speaker 2: you guys with our dear friend Jen Fessler.
Speaker 1: Yes, I have to say, so far, since I've started
Speaker 1: hosting these I Do Part two, I've had only really
Speaker 1: people that I love on Friends. Oh, I have those
Speaker 1: farmers on who I did love them too. I have
Speaker 1: to be honest, I love it.
Speaker 2: I have to listen to the fun Yes, who the farmer?
Speaker 1: They are so cute, They're adorable. They're doing this new show.
Speaker 1: But we digress. So we're here to talk about Margaret
Speaker 1: and Joe. You guys, We're going to go through some
Speaker 1: things for our listeners that things that I probably know
Speaker 1: but they don't and I know things that you know
Speaker 1: because we have a lot of viewers and listeners that
Speaker 1: are not necessarily even housewives people. So, yes, is there anybody?
Speaker 1: Is there anybody in this world?
Speaker 2: And I understand it a lot of people don't watch.
Speaker 1: Housewise, that's true. Well, yes, okay, So let's talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about to get to chapter two, we're going
Speaker 1: to start with chapter one. So I want to know
Speaker 1: a little bit about your first marriages, and Joe, let's
Speaker 1: start with you. I don't know you know, however, much
Speaker 1: you want to kind of reveal about what it was
Speaker 1: like in your first marriage. How old were you when
Speaker 1: you got married? How many kids?
Speaker 3: I guess a brief synopsis would be, Yes, I was
Speaker 3: married when I was thirty years old.
Speaker 2: That's old.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was old.
Speaker 1: Jeff thirty six.
Speaker 3: Was the last one of my friends. And I had
Speaker 3: the first kid when I was thirty five. Okay, and
Speaker 3: I have a son and a daughter, and one is
Speaker 3: now thirty four. The other was thirty three, right three.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, I love the ask, Margaret, you're me and
Speaker 2: I didn't birth those you asking.
Speaker 3: Over time, we grew apart, as couples do occasionally when
Speaker 3: you have kids. When they have, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: stress involved with the children. Basically we were like we
Speaker 3: were mostly separated for a few years before the divorce
Speaker 3: because we lived like almost separate lives.
Speaker 2: Is that what it was? I just think that you
Speaker 2: were two different people. Just say, no, Joe, why didn't
Speaker 2: you just be candids? You were very different people.
Speaker 3: Because I'm going to be seventy years old this year
Speaker 3: and my freaking brain don't want.
Speaker 1: I don't even believe you.
Speaker 2: No, impossible, No, why don't you just be very candid?
Speaker 2: You were very different people.
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you were extremely different before you
Speaker 1: met Margaret. Was the marriage already? Were you already on
Speaker 1: the out?
Speaker 3: Yes, you were for a long time. I was. We
Speaker 3: had way different ideas on basically everything. After the kids
Speaker 3: came and the kids wanted to hang out as kids do,
Speaker 3: they want to hang out with the dad and play around,
Speaker 3: and the mother wants to be strict and the dad
Speaker 3: lets them fool around.
Speaker 1: So that is that was that sort of when it started,
Speaker 1: like the separation between like.
Speaker 3: Child child real things that we'd like to do, Like,
Speaker 3: we had completely different ideas on what was fun you
Speaker 3: know for us as a couple. Yeah, and it just
Speaker 3: diverged from there, and then I wanted my kids to
Speaker 3: get into college before I before I thought about separating
Speaker 3: or getting divorced, because this way they were separated out
Speaker 3: of the entire arguments.
Speaker 1: So interesting because I remember those thoughts going through my
Speaker 1: mind when Jeff and I separated. My kids were much younger,
Speaker 1: but I thought, Okay, we can't get divorced until they
Speaker 1: go to college, and we should get all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: And then I don't know how you guys felt, but
Speaker 1: like my kids went to college, it would have been
Speaker 1: maybe even harder, at least in my situation, I feel
Speaker 1: like they would have been. When my son first went
Speaker 1: away to college, the dog died, I thought he was
Speaker 1: gonna have a nervous breakdown, so, you know, he just
Speaker 1: felt so far away. But anyway, okay, Margaret, you're up.
Speaker 2: I mean, Joe's so funny. He's like, he doesn't really
Speaker 2: talk about his first marriage. It's absolutely kind of fight.
Speaker 2: You're like, wow, we grew apart in the past.
Speaker 3: You know, it's I.
Speaker 1: Mean, are you guys well jumping ahead, but are you
Speaker 1: guys in a place right now where she could hear it,
Speaker 1: like hear you talking about.
Speaker 3: Oh, let me say this. My ex wife is buddies
Speaker 3: with my wife.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now we're very good only Margaret, Joseph Margaret.
Speaker 2: It was important to me because we did not have
Speaker 2: a good relationship, his ex wife myself. But now we
Speaker 2: do and I think she's you know, we've come to
Speaker 2: a very good place. We bonded over a common enemy.
Speaker 2: So that was you know that was and wait my
Speaker 2: head is spinning over yet. Is that would be Joe's
Speaker 2: son's ex wife, got it? Yes, which is great. Yes,
Speaker 2: we love you know her and I both agreed. She
Speaker 2: was never good enough for our for our son. Nothing
Speaker 2: like us nat daughter, nothing like a nasty daughter. And
Speaker 2: to bring the time together. Yes, my first husband, I
Speaker 2: was madly I will be honest like I was. Well, Joe,
Speaker 2: were you madly in love with her when you first
Speaker 2: met her?
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sure of course.
Speaker 2: I mean that was like your third engagement.
Speaker 3: It was well, practice makes perfect.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, Joe was not candid. You hared like numerous
Speaker 2: engagements before you married.
Speaker 3: I went out a real lot.
Speaker 1: I was like a whore, really, man, Well, whore is
Speaker 1: not I mean engaged? Whore is one thing? Joe, just
Speaker 1: I have to I want to giggle a little bit
Speaker 1: because Joe's.
Speaker 2: Care Joe's very his chair went all the way. Yes,
Speaker 2: you're graceful about it.
Speaker 1: I don't have to stand up. Yeah, there you go,
Speaker 1: There you go. But I mean engagements, I mean I
Speaker 1: believe it in terms of the horring, I had my
Speaker 1: own horring that went down in my twenties. But in
Speaker 1: terms of engagement, so you were engaged twice before you
Speaker 1: tied the knot.
Speaker 3: Twice or three times?
Speaker 2: Joe, Joe was having what is going on here that
Speaker 2: you're you're you're not remembering? Don't you get asked a
Speaker 2: lot about that?
Speaker 4: Do you?
Speaker 2: Guys get out?
Speaker 3: We get people ask us about how we miss. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know that's from from like that second forward.
Speaker 2: So that's I was just thinking that that's easy to
Speaker 2: I was thinking that broken engagements met his wife, they
Speaker 2: got married. You know, Joe was a very nice I
Speaker 2: think a devoted first husband and a devoted second husband.
Speaker 3: But I think you were more devoted second husband.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's a nice thing to say. Oh he is,
Speaker 1: he's a great husband. I can't I know, but even
Speaker 1: saying that for you know, I think it was wife.
Speaker 1: I don't know if she would agree, But I mean
Speaker 1: that's a nice things say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what you would say.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think you were a good husband. You were good,
Speaker 2: you were a good provider, you were home a lot.
Speaker 2: You didn't go way. Let you want like a dirty
Speaker 2: stay out?
Speaker 1: Oh no, okay, No, I can't believe you just had
Speaker 1: dirty stay out. My best friend uses that expression all
Speaker 1: the time. One of my favorites.
Speaker 2: You know, unlike your wife.
Speaker 3: You know, my wife is a dirty stay out.
Speaker 2: I love to stay out.
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was about to say, I know
Speaker 1: you're talking about your ex wife to me, dirty stay
Speaker 1: out is dirty.
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't dirty. I'm gonna stay.
Speaker 1: I stay my late nights.
Speaker 2: I'm not dirty.
Speaker 3: I know I call it a dirty stay out because
Speaker 3: she's not home supper with me.
Speaker 1: No, yes, that's you guys. My head is I have
Speaker 1: to slow down because my head is spinning. I'm like,
Speaker 1: as you're saying that, I would know. I wanted to say,
Speaker 1: like how Joe always wants you to be there at
Speaker 1: the airport, like to pick him up, Like these guys
Speaker 1: have the greatest relationship.
Speaker 2: And I'm not doing the airport pickup. I never I
Speaker 2: think it's rude that he even asks. But I know
Speaker 2: it happens.
Speaker 3: It happen twice.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's nice to ask. Again, don't even ask.
Speaker 2: I'm taking a car service. Would I want someone to
Speaker 2: pick me up at the airport and won an airport
Speaker 2: pick up? Don't ask me to pick up the airport,
Speaker 2: neither my cail Ie to pick him up at the
Speaker 2: airport service. I'm not wasting for yes, exactly, I'm not sring.
Speaker 1: I digress. Yeah, I'm digressing. So you and Jan were
Speaker 1: madly in love when you met.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was really crazy for him. Yes, I think
Speaker 2: because he had the three kids. It was important to
Speaker 2: me to marry someone who was a good father, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe the good husband part. You know, I missed out
Speaker 2: on a little not that he was a bad husband,
Speaker 2: but he was controlling, he was older, you know, and
Speaker 2: he was a great guy, you know. But it was
Speaker 2: his second so I was his second, right, I had
Speaker 2: the second wife. I've never been a first wife, right,
Speaker 2: So the you know, I was younger. I was twenty four.
Speaker 2: He was forty four. Wow to twenty years when you
Speaker 2: probably told me that, But twenty four is young. Yes,
Speaker 2: I was twenty four. I moved on with him when
Speaker 2: I was twenty four, he was forty four. I had
Speaker 2: a beautiful family, beautiful life. I had full time help.
Speaker 2: I had a very beautiful, privileged life.
Speaker 1: Okay, because it was I do. I thought I knew everything.
Speaker 1: Twenty four I must have known twenty four to forty four,
Speaker 1: Just real, quickly, just how did you meet a forty
Speaker 1: four year old to.
Speaker 2: Twenty I worked in the garment center, right, yes, dress designer.
Speaker 2: He owned Joseph's brother's lace and embroidery. You know, very
Speaker 2: you know, the Joseph's brothers. You know big in the
Speaker 2: lace and embroidery. Okay, you know, garment center is very different.
Speaker 2: He had just gotten divorced. You know. He looked younger,
Speaker 2: but he was. He was a great father. He had
Speaker 2: custody of three children. His ex wife was nervous about that.
Speaker 2: Age twenty four. I was delusional. I thought it was
Speaker 2: no big deal. We have help, we have kids, they
Speaker 2: go to sleep away camp. Not I'm very maternal though,
Speaker 2: you know, contrary to popular belief in the Bravo world.
Speaker 1: Because people think you're maternal on the world.
Speaker 2: In our inner circle, okay, but in because I don't
Speaker 2: you know, put my kids on television everything else. People
Speaker 2: don't Joe knows. I'm like a hoverer, right, What am
Speaker 2: I like?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Never end it? Does it?
Speaker 1: It? No? I mean I know your relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah with my son and yes, and then Jane and
Speaker 2: I had a son together, which you know, we're not
Speaker 2: going to say names because I don't like to put
Speaker 2: it out there. Yes, and same thing. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: it's very hard when you have children someone and I
Speaker 2: think the thing with you knows though, I think he
Speaker 2: was his amazing father, very devoted father. I said to him,
Speaker 2: you know, you got the father thing so perfect, you know.
Speaker 2: The second time, Ra'm I don't think it got the
Speaker 2: husband thing perfect. And I'm not insulting. It's just you
Speaker 2: talk about Joe.
Speaker 1: Or Jam Jam Jams, not the husband thing.
Speaker 2: Joe's perfect.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm obsessed with agreed.
Speaker 2: Do I not say it?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes? Never Ever. In the last few weeks, have I
Speaker 2: not had a new found obsession again?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I love that I have.
Speaker 3: I've been trying.
Speaker 2: I've been like, you're unbelievable. I've had a new found obsession.
Speaker 3: I've been he's watching all these MOPI movies, I think
Speaker 3: that's what it is.
Speaker 1: But I you know, but I do.
Speaker 2: I'm happy the life I had the first time. I
Speaker 2: had a beautiful life, a beautiful family. You know, it
Speaker 2: was great. But we did grow apart. I think I change.
Speaker 2: You change as you get older. Yeah, I don't regret anything,
Speaker 2: but you know, I wanted something different. We were combative.
Speaker 1: You know, you're either one of you thinking of divorce
Speaker 1: before you met each other. Were you gonna sit it out?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: You both were in that mind test? Yes, oh absolutely?
Speaker 1: Did you talk about it with your exit.
Speaker 3: I mean I was.
Speaker 2: Definitely in therapy, couples therapy. We were in therapy. We
Speaker 2: had issues. I did not you know, I was married
Speaker 2: twenty years long, which is a long time because I
Speaker 2: was a young girl.
Speaker 1: It's a long time. I'm learning all this stuff. I
Speaker 1: thought I knew it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a young I mean I was with
Speaker 2: him twenty years. Maybe I was married eighteen or the twenty,
Speaker 2: you know, but we were together. I was twenty four.
Speaker 2: I didn't move out till I was forty four, right,
Speaker 2: but we I was with him a very long time,
Speaker 2: and I did you know Joe's kids had gone to college.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we we had known each other for years,
Speaker 2: for years really, yeah, but we never.
Speaker 3: Not as like as like sort of acquaintances.
Speaker 1: Was there a spark when you guys like, was there
Speaker 1: always a flirtation going on when you saw each other?
Speaker 2: No, never a flirtation. Inter see each other parties. We're
Speaker 2: friends with this lovely gay couple who were decorators and
Speaker 2: Turier designers, Marco and Chris and Marco right, okay who
Speaker 2: you know broke up also?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And so you would see each other with your exes, yes, okay, Yes, we'd.
Speaker 2: Be at parties. Joe's wife would never go to My
Speaker 2: wife never went.
Speaker 3: Well maybe maybe once a dinner for Marco's dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then we would see each other at these events,
Speaker 2: and Joe and I would always chu, you know, just nicely.
Speaker 2: But then years later I needed work done in my home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you had some work done in your home.
Speaker 2: I had some work done in my home.
Speaker 3: But all my guys used to do work for Chris.
Speaker 3: We used to do he was like a big decorator,
Speaker 3: so we would do entire homes. So it was basically
Speaker 3: written apart and make beautiful edifices. Right, And so they
Speaker 3: told me and I don't really pay attention to names.
Speaker 3: My brain is dead. So they told me we were
Speaker 3: going to go over Margaret's and I said, Margaret, Well Margaret, No,
Speaker 3: I said, who know? Hells Margaret. I didn't remember. And
Speaker 3: they were like, no, no, you know who she is.
Speaker 3: And I was like, no, I really don't. And we
Speaker 3: went into some house and I'm walking around the house
Speaker 3: with my notepad and I'm just making notes. I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: we're going to do this, this, this, this, this, and
Speaker 3: then she came down the stairs and it came to
Speaker 3: me who she was and that was that.
Speaker 2: What I was wearing.
Speaker 3: She was wearing a wife beater and no bra.
Speaker 2: I was wearing my pajaws, my fear of bro and pigtails.
Speaker 3: I can't pigtails.
Speaker 1: Let me just tell you, for all our listeners, that's
Speaker 1: not that unusual Margaret. I've seen Margaret. We've all seen
Speaker 1: Margaret to nowhere to know what she looks like naked.
Speaker 1: She's a very free spirit. Yes, And I came down to.
Speaker 2: My pajoh on bottoms like and the little ribbed tank
Speaker 2: top and no bra. But any of you know what
Speaker 2: that is, you guys.
Speaker 1: It's a very thin material. Yes, it is, So that
Speaker 1: was it where you just hooked that well, my god,
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 3: Just about hooked right on the spot.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but it wasn't like all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: Oh my god. You know we developed a friendship. We
Speaker 2: were both in bad marriages. You know, it's not like
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, I'm like sleeping with Joe. It's not.
Speaker 2: That's not the way it happened. It was months and
Speaker 2: months long time.
Speaker 1: I remember you told me a story that I actually
Speaker 1: thought was very romantic, where you guys were in the
Speaker 1: city walking across the street coming from pace. So tell
Speaker 1: that story. I love that story.
Speaker 4: It is it is.
Speaker 1: It's complicated obviously because at that point that you guys
Speaker 1: were both married, but it tells the story, and you.
Speaker 2: Know it was between you and it was and you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't think I was gonna have a weird went
Speaker 2: to discuss work. I used to put up these displays
Speaker 2: for business.
Speaker 3: She brought these plans that were like multiple pages, and
Speaker 3: I really normally for work. I look at it. I
Speaker 3: got the gist. I know what we're going to do.
Speaker 3: Now we don't have to talk about anymore. But I'm
Speaker 3: looking at these plans, say.
Speaker 2: I was at the bar at noon at you or
Speaker 2: a cocktail.
Speaker 3: I probably die.
Speaker 1: He's remembering, like the actual business of it. You're remembering,
Speaker 1: like the fact that is hard.
Speaker 2: Told me I thought it was odd I met went
Speaker 2: to me in Pesties at noon and you ordered a cocktail.
Speaker 2: It's like, wow, that's so weird. He's wearing your cocktail
Speaker 2: at noon. Well, anyway, I kept the shirt. I saw
Speaker 2: the shirt I wore that day. It was a little
Speaker 2: western shirt with little flowers.
Speaker 1: And it was but did you know at that point
Speaker 1: where you're like, this is because but I.
Speaker 2: Wanted to look cute. And I remember I had platform
Speaker 2: high heels and bell bottom jeans. Shocker.
Speaker 3: I don't remember what it wore.
Speaker 1: But you were having the cocktail, did you? Were you
Speaker 1: a little or was it just Margaret bringing pages and
Speaker 1: pages of plans?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: No, probably because I was meeting March. But I had
Speaker 3: had World War four hundred and fifty got it that morning.
Speaker 3: I was so angered, I can't even tell you. And
Speaker 3: I see Marge, and you know, of course I feel
Speaker 3: better because she's March right, and Marge's we're talking and
Speaker 3: she she knows me real well by then, and she
Speaker 3: says what's the matter. And I was like, and I
Speaker 3: tell her what happened, and then margin turn tells me
Speaker 3: that she had fight number three hundred that morning, right,
Speaker 3: and and both of us were like, you know, like yet,
Speaker 3: it's almost as if the angst comes out of you now,
Speaker 3: you know. And then we settled down and we probably
Speaker 3: didn't talk about the work anymore, right.
Speaker 2: And then what happened.
Speaker 3: We walked across the Oh that was freaking wild, So
Speaker 3: you know, one of those once in a lifetime events.
Speaker 3: So it was I remember it was raining out and
Speaker 3: she had some sort of kerchieff or whatever you call it,
Speaker 3: baby joke. Yeah, she put this anyway, she put over
Speaker 3: both our heads, which I was like, I'm usually a
Speaker 3: guy who I can stand in the middle of the
Speaker 3: pouring rain and I don't know, I don't care. And
Speaker 3: she puts over our heads and we're walking and she
Speaker 3: has her normal six or ten inch high heels on it,
Speaker 3: and she stumbled and so I have fast reactions. I
Speaker 3: caught her right and I pulled her into me social
Speaker 3: wind fall and that was it. I was hit with
Speaker 3: like an electric shock from my head to my toes
Speaker 3: and I was like, holy, what is going on here,
Speaker 3: like the instant.
Speaker 1: I just got like I actually just got chills. It's
Speaker 1: like the most beautiful, perfect love story, except that you
Speaker 1: were both man.
Speaker 2: But like it was it, but that's it.
Speaker 4: But there is that like you can't it really didn't
Speaker 4: matter that way. Yes, I know, you can't take away
Speaker 4: that that was what was going on. No, it was,
Speaker 4: and I knew, like and I felt it too. I
Speaker 4: was like, I'm in trouble, Like what is going on here?
Speaker 4: This is crazy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is terrible, Like I don't know what to
Speaker 2: do here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you know, and it wasn't like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, I have to have sex with this girl. Immediately.
Speaker 3: It was like instant attraction. It was not sex.
Speaker 1: That's that's I love that because I was I was
Speaker 1: about to actually say to you, like, you know, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people feel the spark they're married,
Speaker 1: they connect, there's something that happened different than this. I
Speaker 1: feel like this was like we're in trouble.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, it was. Yeah, it wasn't a sexual thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I wanted to have sex with you,
Speaker 2: but I'm just saying it wasn't that it was like
Speaker 2: I'm crazy for this guy and now, you know, people
Speaker 2: step out on their marriage, they want to have sex
Speaker 2: with someone, it happens, they could recover from that and
Speaker 2: everything else. This was something that I couldn't recover from, right,
Speaker 2: I guess this was something that went too far.
Speaker 3: Oh you wanted to recover?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, But you know what I was saying,
Speaker 1: because at that point it would have been easier probably
Speaker 1: to recover, but there was no recovering.
Speaker 2: There was no recovery. I get it, you know, and
Speaker 2: and I knew that, and you know, months went on,
Speaker 2: and you know, we got together.
Speaker 1: You guys at the beginning of it, were you saying
Speaker 1: to each other, this has to happen, like we can't.
Speaker 1: Was it really quickly? But that you were like, we
Speaker 1: got to leave and we got to start over? Or
Speaker 1: does that take some.
Speaker 3: Time away right away? Because we're both hesitant because both
Speaker 3: of us were really somewhat family orientated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were both like into your family, and I
Speaker 2: was like, what am I gonna do? My older kids
Speaker 2: were out my you know, my son was still home,
Speaker 2: and you know, I was like, you know, my family
Speaker 2: dinners on Sunday night, and I was like, but I
Speaker 2: was like, I can't let my son see me unhappily married.
Speaker 2: That's not healthy for him. And I can't be with that, Joe,
Speaker 2: and this is no way and I can't live like this.
Speaker 2: And you know, and I think you obviously felt the
Speaker 2: same way.
Speaker 1: Sure before you told your spouse's or had that discussion
Speaker 1: which I want to talk about, But did you confide
Speaker 1: in friends with anyone? And how did your friends react? Well,
Speaker 1: my one friend totally did something horrible. My best friend
Speaker 1: in the world, who I wrote about in my book,
Speaker 1: the betrayal was unbair.
Speaker 2: What did you do? This is terrible, you know, because
Speaker 2: it was going to unravel her life. This is terrible.
Speaker 2: You don't know this guy, you know, just horrible. So
Speaker 2: I was like, listen, this is all My My other
Speaker 2: friends understood because they knew I was in a you know,
Speaker 2: my marriage wasn't perfect and the rest of my life
Speaker 2: life was and they were like, it's a big decision,
Speaker 2: and they understood. My other friend was horrible, horrible.
Speaker 1: Well, what can we tell, Like, just listeners, because I
Speaker 1: have to tell you when Jeff and I separated and
Speaker 1: we had come from infidelity and all of it. But
Speaker 1: like my friends were always supportive. Well, thank god, let's
Speaker 1: do what it's going to make.
Speaker 2: You should not be judgmental because no one your life,
Speaker 2: no one knows what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: And I think.
Speaker 2: To turn on your best friends. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: someone who I they need you to her wedding and
Speaker 2: I needed her the most, and to turn on me
Speaker 2: she and I just want to say this. I was
Speaker 2: so heartbroken. Her husband had said to me, you're driving.
Speaker 2: I'm watching you drive a runaway train. You're going to
Speaker 2: wind up alone. You're going to have nobody. You're going
Speaker 2: to be alone with your mother and your son on
Speaker 2: a holiday, like really sick, sick, disgusting things. And it
Speaker 2: was bit and I was like, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: like I was in a perfect I was marriage and
Speaker 2: everybody knew that. They knew I had a great life
Speaker 2: and a beautiful thing. But I was like, Jan deserved
Speaker 2: to be happy as well. He deserved to be someone
Speaker 2: who is mainly and on a great team. We were
Speaker 2: in therapy. You know, he obviously was not as happy
Speaker 2: with me either. He wanted some as much as he
Speaker 2: loved me, he wanted me to be different. I was spontaneous.
Speaker 2: I'm crazy. You know what I mean that you know
Speaker 2: Joe could is a spontaneous person. He could accept my spontaneity,
Speaker 2: he could accept my risk taking live life on the edge.
Speaker 2: Jan was risk adverse. He was happy with I get that,
Speaker 2: Like I have that, Jeff.
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons why we work is
Speaker 1: because he looks at me like Joe looks at you like, yes,
Speaker 1: well I don't know what the guy stepped into here,
Speaker 1: but but but it is.
Speaker 2: But it is entertaining. Yes, he's the man behind the woman.
Speaker 2: He loves you and no matter you know, yes, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: as much as Jan found me, he could not tolerate. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean he was gonna blow his brains out.
Speaker 1: I get that. Made that's so interesting.
Speaker 2: So it just so my one friend, really one of
Speaker 2: my bad really turned on me, right Jeff, that's really
Speaker 2: I have to say, Like no, and got involved with
Speaker 2: my children. That's sick and caused a lot of family tumult. Well,
Speaker 2: you know something, I will.
Speaker 1: Say that when Jeff and I got back together, I
Speaker 1: did have a couple of friends. They didn't say it,
Speaker 1: they said it to be supportive, but they said, Jen,
Speaker 1: you have you really given yourself a chance, like you're
Speaker 1: getting back together already just because it didn't work out
Speaker 1: with this boyfriend. How do you know that there's not so?
Speaker 1: But I knew, Like that's why maybe you just have
Speaker 1: to trust yourself, like you want to talk to your
Speaker 1: friends and be able to get the input. But I think,
Speaker 1: at least for me, I think for you to, like
Speaker 1: I knew that I wanted to be with Jeff, like
Speaker 1: this was as done.
Speaker 2: Exactly and why you were leaving your boyfriend to go
Speaker 2: be with Jeff, right, which I thought.
Speaker 1: Was But also but like there's whatever your friends are
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, and I think it's hard,
Speaker 1: but especially in a scenario like this when you're on
Speaker 1: your second time around or there's infidel, like you have
Speaker 1: to trust yourself no matter and ditch any friends.
Speaker 2: And this was you know, and I get a lot
Speaker 2: of flack people like you cheated, get you that's the way. No,
Speaker 2: it wasn't about that. It was about I knew I
Speaker 2: didn't want a life of being unfaithful or being something
Speaker 2: like that, or being unhappy. I want to be with
Speaker 2: someone who was a partner who you know, was just
Speaker 2: as crazy for me as I was for them, who
Speaker 2: accepted me for you know, my flaws and all and
Speaker 2: and that we were a team. Yeah, and I you know,
Speaker 2: and as much as Jane and I were a team
Speaker 2: for the family, we weren't a team for each other.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I wasn't you know, I wasn't on his
Speaker 2: page either. You know, I didn't agree with a lot
Speaker 2: of things he did, you know, as much as he
Speaker 2: agree with me. Sof and Joe and I were a team.
Speaker 1: I love that, well, Joe. I mean, guys won't always
Speaker 1: have the friendships that that we do. But do you
Speaker 1: have friends supporting you? How is that I have?
Speaker 3: I have a lot of acquaintances, and I have maybe
Speaker 3: on a handful of really true friends, and they stood
Speaker 3: by you, and they're true friends, Like, no matter what
Speaker 3: I would want to do, they would want it for you.
Speaker 3: Bill go and they backed me. And some of them
Speaker 3: told me I was, you know, like I was an idiot,
Speaker 3: But you know, whatever you want to do, that's what
Speaker 3: we're going to do.
Speaker 2: Okay. One friend told him he's an idiot in front ofhip.
Speaker 2: Even funnier, No, he goes like this, He's like Joe,
Speaker 2: that girl's high maintenance written all over her. But is
Speaker 2: that like and he goes, he goes, is that what
Speaker 2: you want, He goes, she is more than high maintenance.
Speaker 3: To I was, she was livid, I was living.
Speaker 2: I go that that's the first thing he says about me.
Speaker 1: We talked to him anymore?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do, okay, of course.
Speaker 1: Actually, you know, I don't think it's a big deal,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Because I mean, you're they're
Speaker 1: real friends that they are looking out for you. But
Speaker 1: like the friend that you describe Margaret is not a friend.
Speaker 2: Is that like that's supposed to mean?
Speaker 1: Right, Well, it means, it means it. It accurately describes you.
Speaker 2: I don't even think it's an insult. It is, but
Speaker 2: it's just like, so what is that accurate? Yes, that's
Speaker 2: supposed to be a turn off, right, high maintenance? Clearly not.
Speaker 2: I want somebody who's maintained.
Speaker 3: Well, that's not exactly what it means.
Speaker 2: What does that mean? Expensive? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I knew that that's what we were getting.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, Yeah, I am expensive, and I work a
Speaker 2: lot and never really very well, I just had a
Speaker 2: business and everything else.
Speaker 1: Yes, well guess what, I was expensive and I didn't
Speaker 1: work a lot or do everyone less. Thank you, Yes, exactly,
Speaker 1: thank you. And there's nothing wrong with well, okay, like
Speaker 1: the economy, listen, this is a hard one. We're going
Speaker 1: to just talk about it. It's okay quickly because I've
Speaker 1: had a hard time answering these questions. And I wasn't divorced,
Speaker 1: I was just separated. But the kids, how did you
Speaker 1: tell the kids?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 2: That was the worst day.
Speaker 1: I know, I remember my own day when we told
Speaker 1: them that we were separating. But anything that you want
Speaker 1: to tell us about, you know, for people that are
Speaker 1: either going into part two or dealing with this kid's thing,
Speaker 1: any advice or any you.
Speaker 2: Yours wasn't as rough for something off the hook so easy.
Speaker 3: Really, it was very difficult. How old your kids were
Speaker 3: a little older My kids were probably she's eighteen and
Speaker 3: twenty hard age.
Speaker 2: No, and the okay, that's very hard, but they were.
Speaker 3: Both starting their their lives doing things. My son.
Speaker 2: You were closer with your kids, I feel they than
Speaker 2: your ex wife was.
Speaker 1: Did you guys tell the kids about each other or
Speaker 1: just that you were going to get separated or divorced?
Speaker 3: My kids knew. My kids knew that, not that I
Speaker 3: was with Margaret that I but like I was friends
Speaker 3: with Margaret. They knew that. And then at some point,
Speaker 3: what are you making face work?
Speaker 2: So they moved right into a beach house. But that's
Speaker 2: a whole the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not.
Speaker 1: They figured it out. They figured it out, yes, yes
Speaker 1: and no.
Speaker 3: And then at some point my ex wife did burst
Speaker 3: into the room where the kids were with me, and
Speaker 3: she's screaming about life in general. And the kids are
Speaker 3: looking at her, looking at me, and you know, they're
Speaker 3: basically looking at me for it, like what's up with her? Right?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Because she was so off the.
Speaker 2: Charts, they weren't They knew they weren't happy.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, my kids knew we weren't happy. And to
Speaker 3: be honest with you, they you know, my wife wasn't
Speaker 3: happy with the three of us.
Speaker 1: So right, okay, uh, I mean yeah, okay, your kid's
Speaker 1: situation wasn't is I think his situation they were living.
Speaker 2: I mean, you were living separate lives even before I
Speaker 2: got in the picture.
Speaker 3: Oh by far?
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't a shock to the kids.
Speaker 2: Mine was a disaster. Okay. It was heartbreaking. Its separated
Speaker 2: my family, you know what it was my I had
Speaker 2: a beautiful family life, even though they knew I PHO
Speaker 2: j in. So mine was the worst day of my life.
Speaker 2: I could start crying now just thinking about it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was horrible. My older kids were older. My son
Speaker 2: was only fifteen. He was going away to a summer.
Speaker 1: And they had no idea.
Speaker 2: They knew things weren't good, but they really were like
Speaker 2: they couldn't believe it. They were just so devastated. And
Speaker 2: they were I mean, I'm saying like late twenties, early thirties.
Speaker 2: They were my step kids, and they had to freak out.
Speaker 2: And my son was like fifteen, very very upset, very upset.
Speaker 2: So Joe and I went, I said, you know, we're separating,
Speaker 2: We're probably getting divorced. I went to live with Joe
Speaker 2: for that summer Manilocan in a beach house.
Speaker 1: Jan didn't handle it either.
Speaker 2: When he handled it terribly, He handled it absolutely terribly,
Speaker 2: and really, you know, didn't want to take any responsibility
Speaker 2: on his part. It wasn't about Joe, you know, Joe
Speaker 2: was Eventually we were going to get divorced anyway. I
Speaker 2: think Joe was like a catalyst, Yep, I think it.
Speaker 2: He moved along quicker and we were meant to be
Speaker 2: clearly meant to be together. This is so many years later,
Speaker 2: and then you know, two of my kids didn't speak
Speaker 2: to me for a very long right, we're very devastated,
Speaker 2: but they had trauma from their own life because you know,
Speaker 2: they didn't their mother wasn't in their life and had
Speaker 2: left them. And I think it was like a form
Speaker 2: of abandonment, even though I wasn't leaving my kids, and
Speaker 2: you know, they were grown adults. Of course, my son,
Speaker 2: who was fifteen the time, believe it or not, understood
Speaker 2: more really because you live with us all the time.
Speaker 1: And then, god, I just it's it was the hardest
Speaker 1: day of my life, the day of separated, so brutal.
Speaker 2: It's brutal. I mean, I was sick. Remember I was
Speaker 2: crying on the beach all the time.
Speaker 1: Fourth of July.
Speaker 2: I'd always be with my family in the Hamptons, but
Speaker 2: I was a man, alogan. I was sick. I was
Speaker 2: throwing Oh god, you know it was. It was a
Speaker 2: very hard time. But I knew I could not sacrifice
Speaker 2: my life. If I wasn't good for me, I couldn't
Speaker 2: be good for the rest of my kids or my family.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Yeah, I know exactly what
Speaker 2: you mean. I mean when we told our kids I was.
Speaker 2: I couldn't just you couldn't just keep going it just that,
Speaker 2: they say. I've heard people say that, like you get
Speaker 2: divorced when you're at the point where the money doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: It's not that the kids, because obviously the kids matter,
Speaker 2: but living like that is the only thing. You can't
Speaker 2: live like that another day. I mean, so, yeah, it
Speaker 2: matter for me. I walked out of that door and
Speaker 2: I gave up my house. I gave up I wound
Speaker 2: up paying alimony. You're still paying alimony? How many more
Speaker 2: checks you have left?
Speaker 3: Not many?
Speaker 2: The exact number? No, let me tell you. No, he
Speaker 2: knows the exact number. He writes the number on the
Speaker 2: bottom of everyone just to give her.
Speaker 3: Well, she doesn't get it. It goes to the state.
Speaker 2: But you know what, I live for that level of petty. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Joe's pettier. Yeah? Come on now, all right, Joe, Joe,
Speaker 2: who's pettier? You were me? Oh?
Speaker 3: I can hold a grudge till the end of freaking
Speaker 3: time and hate you like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, So all you listeners who are Housewives fans, that
Speaker 1: is not at all what you would think. He Joe, Ben,
Speaker 1: you come off as your sugar on the show he is.
Speaker 1: He's very sweet, but he can be crossy.
Speaker 2: You know, he's like you know, he's been paying alimony
Speaker 2: a long time.
Speaker 1: At this point, listen, you are divorced, and it sounds like, well, well,
Speaker 1: if Margaret is friends with your ex, you have to
Speaker 1: be at least friendly with her now No, oh oh,
Speaker 1: well I was hopeful.
Speaker 3: No, not really. I don't. I rarely text anything with her, okay,
Speaker 3: And I don't get involved with stuff unless my kids
Speaker 3: call me and say, oh my god, this is happening.
Speaker 3: And my daughter recently called me up and said I
Speaker 3: had to go do something about it.
Speaker 2: I had a beautiful relationship with my excess. I know
Speaker 2: he did know, and he passed away, but you know,
Speaker 2: and he took it much worse with the divorce because
Speaker 2: Joe's wife actually wanted the divorce.
Speaker 3: She wanted a divorce. Wow.
Speaker 1: Would you guys have any advice to give in terms
Speaker 1: of there's really nothing. I don't know if there is
Speaker 1: any advice that you can give for people telling their kids.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I would have any.
Speaker 2: I think you have to be don't give any dirty details.
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody should discuss infidelities. I don't think
Speaker 2: anybody needs to know that. You don't have to be
Speaker 2: brutally honest, but I think just enough that we love
Speaker 2: you know, we love each other. It's just not working out.
Speaker 2: Has nothing to do with you.
Speaker 1: You know, you say that to the CADG Yes, I wish,
Speaker 1: I wish I had a parent who had I went
Speaker 1: through as a kid a lot of doors. My parents
Speaker 1: were both divorced multiple times. But I remember one of
Speaker 1: them and a stepfather saying to me and to my sister,
Speaker 1: she's cheating.
Speaker 2: No, it is right.
Speaker 1: I would just say, like, you know, when Jeff and
Speaker 1: I separated, no blaming and there was no blaming. There
Speaker 1: was only propping each other up. I mean that's what
Speaker 1: I would suggest.
Speaker 2: That like what it is, and I think that's don't
Speaker 2: you think that's the most important thing that that doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: No, it does not. I heard through the grapevine that
Speaker 3: all these accusations on my part, which were all false
Speaker 3: sight I was. I heard through a grapevine that I
Speaker 3: had cheated from the day we were married.
Speaker 1: You never you're like a goodye two shoe who said that?
Speaker 1: Did your kids think that?
Speaker 3: No, my kids know me.
Speaker 1: Okay, but that's what was spreading that around.
Speaker 3: Sure, that's the story I got back.
Speaker 2: Wow, See that's what That's what upset me because there's
Speaker 2: one thing. Listen, I could be a lot of things,
Speaker 2: but I was very, very devoted to my kids and
Speaker 2: my my family. That in my entire life, I was
Speaker 2: devoted to my in laws, everything else. I was also
Speaker 2: a very doting wife. Granted I did cheat on my hut.
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 2: It's a fact I did.
Speaker 1: But so did I by the way, I mean not first.
Speaker 2: You know, that doesn't and that doesn't mean that doesn't
Speaker 2: you know, there's worse things you could do. It doesn't erase,
Speaker 2: it doesn't erase it. All devotion, there's a tation everything else.
Speaker 2: So I felt, you know, very upset that, you know,
Speaker 2: my ex husband, Jan you know, did not handle it
Speaker 2: really correctly. Yeah, because he kind of, you know, made
Speaker 2: himself out like he was a very much victim, a victim,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you got you gotta dial it back,
Speaker 2: you know, I go, come on. But to the world
Speaker 2: and everyone else, he's like, it looks like you went
Speaker 2: on to this beautiful life. You know, your business was
Speaker 2: doing great, you moved to this great house, then you
Speaker 2: got on TV, you know, and to the world looked
Speaker 2: like Margaret had everything and poor and poor Jan and nothing.
Speaker 2: Well that's not true, right, you know. And I was
Speaker 2: saying Jan, you know, Jan got my whole house. Jane
Speaker 2: got out, you know, but everybody was like poor you know,
Speaker 2: in the in the public eye or whatever it was,
Speaker 2: or in everybody else's eye, was like poor Jam. But
Speaker 2: Jan didn't have to work.
Speaker 1: I relate to everybody did that, even though Jeff had
Speaker 1: an affair when I I ended up leaving, and everyone
Speaker 1: was like poor Jeff, which is so interesting, even including
Speaker 1: my mother.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, so yeah, which is upsetting, you know, just
Speaker 2: like you know, my other friends infl But I think
Speaker 2: the kids, you know, were like they saw their father
Speaker 2: sad and then they did you know, and no, but
Speaker 2: I felt bad, listen. I even felt bad for Jan.
Speaker 2: I think I had some weird guilt for years myself.
Speaker 2: I was just like, because he would call me, I mean,
Speaker 2: he didn't know how to use the printer, legit, He'd
Speaker 2: come to our house and Lexi and I would do
Speaker 2: the print right. Yeah, but then he met a beautiful
Speaker 2: woman who was It's very bizarre. It was who was it?
Speaker 1: Joe?
Speaker 3: My wife's best friend.
Speaker 2: What Yeah? And they started dating.
Speaker 3: Wait what yeah?
Speaker 2: I thought I knew you. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Just making this up?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, Jan's girlfriend when he passed away had been
Speaker 2: dating Joe's ex wife's best friend for three years.
Speaker 1: Wow. And I know they were crazy about each other.
Speaker 2: You crazy?
Speaker 3: And they met each other on a dating site. And
Speaker 3: the funny thing is the first time I met her,
Speaker 3: I was like, what are you doing here?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: And then you saw her through Jan.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That is the weirdest thing, isn't that the weirdest thing? Well,
Speaker 2: she knew because she knew of it because they went
Speaker 2: on a date. And then of course Jam was like,
Speaker 2: my ex wife she's on Housewives, you know, saying like that,
Speaker 2: and he and she was like, and he goes, you know,
Speaker 2: she left me for the you know, he gave this story.
Speaker 2: You know, she was day in the contract and she goes,
Speaker 2: is your ex wife married to Joe b Enigno?
Speaker 1: And then she said it, shit, how did your ex
Speaker 1: take that? She at the end of their friendship.
Speaker 3: I don't think they liked it. I don't know.
Speaker 2: She know she didn't like it. No, she told me
Speaker 2: she didn't like it. It kind of they weren't as close,
Speaker 2: they weren't really friends after that.
Speaker 1: Really, I mean, it's so funny, like it's just so
Speaker 1: much there's so much heartache. But to get to where
Speaker 1: you are now, I mean, I think about that so often,
Speaker 1: Like with part two, I think about sometimes you guys,
Speaker 1: tell me what you think. But my grandparents were so
Speaker 1: miserable at the end of their lives. Like I guess
Speaker 1: that back in the day, you know, the woman was
Speaker 1: responsible for the kids, the house you had to come in,
Speaker 1: and my Nanna was to say to me, there always
Speaker 1: had to be a meat and a vegetable, starch and whatever,
Speaker 1: and but there was so much resentment built up that
Speaker 1: at the end of their lives they just couldn't stand
Speaker 1: each other. And I think to myself, like, while divorced,
Speaker 1: I don't recommend it. I'm sure neither one of you.
Speaker 1: It's not. It's not a party. But now you're at
Speaker 1: the point in your lives you're older, and you are
Speaker 1: enjoying your life with this person that you love, and
Speaker 1: all the heartache, I'm happy to say here you are.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there are people that regret it, but.
Speaker 3: I think that some people make it through and they
Speaker 3: love each other till the end of the time. On
Speaker 3: first marriages, you know, like they meet, you hear people
Speaker 3: they meet in high school and get married. I have
Speaker 3: a bunch of kids, and life is good and for
Speaker 3: a lot of other people, and I think the majority
Speaker 3: of Americans is much better the second time around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, I'm on my second whatever
Speaker 1: sort of but like, yeah, you know, it's but whatever
Speaker 1: it is like now, especially as I as I get older,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine being in an unhappy marriage at our ages.
Speaker 2: You know, you just a I don't suffer. Well, that's right,
Speaker 2: like the white lotus.
Speaker 1: Yes, women, Yes, I.
Speaker 2: Can't be in comfort. She said that. I dies like
Speaker 2: I could not be right.
Speaker 1: I'm too old to be uncomfortable. I'm too old to
Speaker 1: be I would have to kill myself if I wasn't rich.
Speaker 2: That was a classic line. Yeah, but I also do
Speaker 2: feel it, and I think sometimes I'm feeling emotional lately
Speaker 2: because I'm just like looking back on my life and
Speaker 2: everything we did to get here, and you know, everything
Speaker 2: I've been through, you know, and I had, you know,
Speaker 2: I reminisced I had a beautiful life the first time,
Speaker 2: but I, you know, and that was the time I
Speaker 2: raised my kids and everything else. But the part two
Speaker 2: of my life, you know, is about you know, my
Speaker 2: kids are up and out.
Speaker 1: It's about you.
Speaker 2: It's about me and my husband and you know, and
Speaker 2: my dog, especially dog.
Speaker 1: God. Well let's put them in the correct order. It's
Speaker 1: about you, your dog, Lexi and joke. Yeah, yeah, yes, no,
Speaker 1: And it's.
Speaker 3: Just like and and mother and before me.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry about that. No, but I'm just saying we
Speaker 2: we do have a beautiful life together.
Speaker 3: And a girl throw her into girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to make sure I give us very checked.
Speaker 1: I gave her number, by the way, but okay, go on.
Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I totally get so.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times I do get emotional.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm sitting on the sofa watch that I start
Speaker 2: crying because I'm just like, oh my god. I do
Speaker 2: feel like it is the second chapter. But I feel
Speaker 2: like we're in like the last leg.
Speaker 1: Yeah we are. I mean I'm putting myself in there.
Speaker 1: We are, right, and I have a lot of gratitude
Speaker 1: now I do too, are.
Speaker 2: Just like look at you, you just you know, you
Speaker 2: just got your beaches.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's just gratitude just to have being
Speaker 1: a happy marriage, because so many people are not.
Speaker 2: No, exactly like I called you. How many times a
Speaker 2: day did we talk on the phone?
Speaker 3: Quite a few, and best friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I called Joe constantly. You know, we shower together,
Speaker 2: and that's not code for sex.
Speaker 3: No sort of it, unfortunately, No, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: don't we.
Speaker 2: Don't have sex. And the show we're just like even
Speaker 2: though we built two shower heads, he insists on, just
Speaker 2: like going under my shower head.
Speaker 3: It's our shower head.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm like, okay, So having said that, because that's
Speaker 1: like still honeymoon base, I was gonna ask you, guys, like,
Speaker 1: now you move into the beach house and you're actually together,
Speaker 1: was there ever any like we whoa, whoa? What have
Speaker 1: we done?
Speaker 2: Was there ever any ever?
Speaker 1: None of that, not once, not a day. I just
Speaker 1: knew that that's what had it was. This was kind
Speaker 1: of be meant to be, meant to be.
Speaker 2: I was obsessed with him from the beginning.
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you sending you're obsessed with me from the beginning.
Speaker 3: I am obsessed with you.
Speaker 4: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed he is.
Speaker 1: That's actually a fact so tell me now a little
Speaker 1: bit about your feelings on and this is sort of
Speaker 1: a making a sharp write or sharp lit. But let's
Speaker 1: talk prenups for a moment, because I just had Dlorus
Speaker 1: and Paul on and we spoke a little bit about them.
Speaker 1: I spoke a little bit about my idea. I feel
Speaker 1: like now, I think prenups are fabulous invention. But everyone
Speaker 1: feels differently about them. How do you guys feel about them?
Speaker 3: I don't see a need for it.
Speaker 2: No, I see a need for prenups with certain people.
Speaker 2: I think people need a prenup.
Speaker 3: I don't need a prenup.
Speaker 2: Joe and I didn't do a prenup, but I do
Speaker 2: agree with pren ups.
Speaker 1: We did.
Speaker 2: Listen, we're very specific with our estate planning though. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think the estate planning is super super important, right.
Speaker 1: Which is when you say state planning, you're saying like
Speaker 1: that right when you croak and but but and that
Speaker 1: you have you know that no matter what, this is
Speaker 1: what you want.
Speaker 2: We're very big. The way we did it is we're
Speaker 2: very big with separating the life insurance is who's getting what.
Speaker 2: We did that kind of planning.
Speaker 1: For our second time because kids, because so many.
Speaker 2: We own separate things, Joe own's apartments. This we set
Speaker 2: everybody up the right way. We planned it that way.
Speaker 1: I have so many friends who also they they've lost
Speaker 1: a parent and then there's a step parent involved, and
Speaker 1: that just becomes a total night.
Speaker 2: Now we we have everything in writing. Who's getting what,
Speaker 2: what's happening? So all the children, No, one's fighting over everything.
Speaker 3: The dog gets everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, everything goes to everything. No, so we
Speaker 2: you know, we arranged things that way. Yeah, yeah, tell,
Speaker 2: But I do believe in a prenup. I mean, obviously
Speaker 2: certain people should have gotten you know, but we got together.
Speaker 2: I mean I was super you know, though I've had
Speaker 2: taken some hits. I mean I had a very big
Speaker 2: thing when we got to we're both equally as successful
Speaker 2: when we got together. You own a lot of real estate.
Speaker 2: I had a big business, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we were like, well, if I was, if
Speaker 1: I had to do it again, if I was doing
Speaker 1: it again, there would be pre nups.
Speaker 2: If there was.
Speaker 1: I'm not say because I'm such a millionaire even but
Speaker 1: I just think things get so messy, and they do.
Speaker 2: They do, And I agree with I definitely agree with
Speaker 2: the prenup, but we did more post nuppy kind of
Speaker 2: a most.
Speaker 3: Right, we didn't do any pre and and then we
Speaker 3: just figured on, well, the kids got to be taken
Speaker 3: care of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we made sure of that and we have
Speaker 2: everything in writing for the kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: So just to touch on this very briefly, but when
Speaker 1: jam passed away, which is what two.
Speaker 2: Two years ago to uh? Was it three years ago?
Speaker 2: It'll be three years in August, yeah, three years.
Speaker 1: Right, And you talked about it a little bit on
Speaker 1: the show. But how Joe supported you through that? Yes,
Speaker 1: if you want to just give us just an idea
Speaker 1: of well.
Speaker 3: I mean, Marge was going through extreme grief. It was her.
Speaker 1: Did that make you feel anyway?
Speaker 3: I felt empathetic towards her grief and how she felt
Speaker 3: and how her son and I didn't know the step kids,
Speaker 3: so the other ones felt well one Brett and so
Speaker 3: you just support how she wants to deal with it.
Speaker 3: If she had decided to deal with it by not
Speaker 3: dealing with it, I would have supported that too. But
Speaker 3: we ended up having shivers, not of funerals. No, what
Speaker 3: do you say that? We had the shiva?
Speaker 2: The non jew at You're Italian.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at my house, so and it was fine, just
Speaker 3: like have everybody over.
Speaker 2: And No, you were so supportive.
Speaker 1: You know, I had known jan for years and you
Speaker 1: were friendly with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was friendly. We're best buddies. Aren't going out
Speaker 3: camping together, but right, you know, we we could. We
Speaker 3: went out to dinner a few times. He was fine
Speaker 3: and his girlfriend I knew forever, so right, it.
Speaker 2: Was just you know, it was shocking because he was
Speaker 2: the picture of health.
Speaker 1: So I think it was I ran five miles a day,
Speaker 1: I remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was so healthy. And you know what,
Speaker 2: Joe was so supportive that, and that just shows what
Speaker 2: a great, confident, secure man he is an artist, because
Speaker 2: I mean you were.
Speaker 1: You were more worried about that. If you guys did
Speaker 1: watch the show, Margaret talked a lot about feeling guilty
Speaker 1: that she was so sad. No, I was devastated.
Speaker 2: Now why I was so devastated. I knew Jansen some
Speaker 2: I'm twenty four years old, right, that's the first thing
Speaker 2: to watch the children and father children, I mean them,
Speaker 2: he was like by the time we're divorced, it was
Speaker 2: like having a crazy uncle, you know. Yeah, he was
Speaker 2: the witness to my life before I knew Joe, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And it's like I knew him
Speaker 2: longer than anybody. So poor Joe, you know, had to
Speaker 2: deal with the hysteria. I mean, we have a picture
Speaker 2: of Jan hanging in my living room when Jan from
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies. It's I could start crying about that now.
Speaker 2: It's so you know, it's a weird thing to have
Speaker 2: that because Joe didn't. And I'm not insulting your relationship Jan.
Speaker 2: I had a different kind of relationship than him and
Speaker 2: his ex wife. Jan and I had a history of
Speaker 2: because he was so much older than me, you know
Speaker 2: what we had gone through. And I think Joe and
Speaker 2: his ex wife didn't have that kind of relationship, and
Speaker 2: his kids don't have that relationship with his ex wife.
Speaker 2: You're you know where my kids are obsessed with me,
Speaker 2: but they were equally as obsessed with Jan, don't you agree?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, no, I've read that. I was at that
Speaker 1: Shiva and not a happy time and your kids are
Speaker 1: so devastated.
Speaker 2: No so, and to this day, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: we are so devastated. That was the one thing we
Speaker 2: were both, That was the only thing Jane and I
Speaker 2: agreed on was the kids. We're both obsessed neurotic wrecks.
Speaker 2: You know, Joe's not a neurotic wreck, right, Jane and
Speaker 2: I were neurotic.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe that's something to be said for that,
Speaker 1: because I'm a neurotic wrack and Jeff Essler's not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jeff, Jeff is actually just like I am.
Speaker 1: He is.
Speaker 2: I know, that's a good commented someone who.
Speaker 3: Oft, yes, they do.
Speaker 2: They can't be too neurotic wres.
Speaker 3: No, no, because then that would be a disaster.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think that's probably.
Speaker 1: But it's just so interesting to note because I know
Speaker 1: that you were so worried about Joe during that time,
Speaker 1: and Joe was fine and worried about you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he was so good, and I mean, like
Speaker 2: you know, and that was the one thing. I think
Speaker 2: he probably felt beat because he couldn't make it better.
Speaker 2: No one could make that better, you know. But I
Speaker 2: feel like, you know, I'm very good also, and I
Speaker 2: and you're good this way, like you know, times grief,
Speaker 2: we make a lot of jokes, yeah, you know, which
Speaker 2: which does help you get through. Humor helps you get
Speaker 2: through things. I mean, yes, I mean when I went
Speaker 2: to the cemetery and I should not make a joke
Speaker 2: about this, and my my kids will kill me. But
Speaker 2: the only thing that gets me through I went with
Speaker 2: my son, and you know the headstone. I was not
Speaker 2: happy with the headstones.
Speaker 1: So you so you with the head rate right, you're
Speaker 1: not kidding, huh.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it said besides, it just was the
Speaker 2: first day before they even got the headstone. They spelt
Speaker 2: his name wrong, wrong, and they got the date wrong
Speaker 2: that he died. I was having a freak out. Of course,
Speaker 2: of course you are. I was like, I would likely
Speaker 2: say that this is like a Larry David episode. But
Speaker 2: then we go and it's you know, it's not the
Speaker 2: proper unveiling, and you know, my son and I go,
Speaker 2: it's the day died. I'm crying, it's sweating, it's August.
Speaker 2: It's this. It's that I'm going, we're putting the rocks where,
Speaker 2: you know, with which the Jewish religioning, you know, and
Speaker 2: poor Joe's way for we're going to go to lunch
Speaker 2: afterwards whatever, And we go and we get there. My
Speaker 2: son doesn't want me to know what the headstone says.
Speaker 2: And I have nothing to do with it because I'm
Speaker 2: the ex wife, so I should have nothing to say.
Speaker 1: You don't know from that. Let's get real. Margaret doesn't. No, no,
Speaker 1: there's no I mean, come on, nothing nothing gets done
Speaker 1: without Margaret.
Speaker 2: But I but they're not gonna tell me what the
Speaker 2: headstune says, and everyone likes stepped out it. It says
Speaker 2: beloved you know, son, father, brother, life partner. Would you
Speaker 2: wanted to say husband? It could have said love of
Speaker 2: my life. It could have said if she wanted that,
Speaker 2: you know, the girlfriend. It could have said anything like
Speaker 2: life partner, who approved this nonsense?
Speaker 1: I was like, you don't think that was a little
Speaker 1: bit of transference there, like getting so upset about that
Speaker 1: when there was actually you're at the funeral of this.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't the funeral. It was it was last year.
Speaker 1: Oh it was the unveiling.
Speaker 2: It was like it was right before the unvailed. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: God's like life partner. Yeah, who puts that on a tombstone?
Speaker 1: And you made a scene.
Speaker 2: It was only myself and my son, Okay, it wasn't
Speaker 2: really the official une, Okay. I I mean then I
Speaker 2: started then I was like all right, he all right,
Speaker 2: he's listening.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing that you're still worried about him in death. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: you wanted to be right.
Speaker 2: I wanted it to be right. I said, like, I go,
Speaker 2: this is unacceptable. I go, this is And everyone did
Speaker 2: to change any any No, it did not change it.
Speaker 2: I well well know he is if we go to
Speaker 2: the cemetery, will be able to find it. No, I've
Speaker 2: complained to my other children. I was like, who said
Speaker 2: this is okay? It should be changed to love my life.
Speaker 2: I go, it doesn't have to say husband, because clearly,
Speaker 2: even though he was the husband of two women, you know,
Speaker 2: it was just you know, for the giryfriend could say
Speaker 2: love my life, right, Chris life partner.
Speaker 1: This is There's so many times when I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: so Margaret. This is just so Margaret. It is so
Speaker 1: marked like it's not even your problem. It was the
Speaker 1: girlfriend's problem.
Speaker 2: And so I just just said, what are you gonna
Speaker 2: do when I die? Stuffed me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to put it next to my bear.
Speaker 2: Put it next to the bear. That's romantic. Change my appe.
Speaker 2: I love that were my good hair.
Speaker 1: Obviously obviously we'll have Julius do it. So okay, you guys.
Speaker 1: A couple more things first, because again, whoever is out
Speaker 1: there listening to a ban of the show knows that
Speaker 1: Joe was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Yes, last season, thankfully, thankfully, thankfully,
Speaker 1: it was such early stages that nothing had to be done.
Speaker 1: But where are we at now, view.
Speaker 3: The doctors monitor me. They want to take tests constantly,
Speaker 3: you know, but nothing's nothing's changed.
Speaker 1: Okay, good, thank god.
Speaker 2: It has not advanced. It's stage one, you know, they said,
Speaker 2: because Joe got it, you know, later in life, and
Speaker 2: they did a genomic test that his is very slow
Speaker 2: growing and it hasn't changed. So they're just going to
Speaker 2: keep in mind.
Speaker 3: My numbers dropped for some crazy.
Speaker 1: The ts A numbers p s as AA, his ts A.
Speaker 2: He could still get right through the.
Speaker 3: Air on that plane.
Speaker 2: He could get right on the plane with his p
Speaker 2: s A and his ts Okay, okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the p s A numbers dropped for some crazy.
Speaker 1: Which was fabulous news.
Speaker 2: But he is, you know, it was still there and
Speaker 2: but we're monitoring. I mean, it goes every six months.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So tell me what we've left out
Speaker 1: you guys, is there anything you want to tell our
Speaker 1: listeners in terms of things that you suggest advice, follow
Speaker 1: your heart.
Speaker 3: Marge's running for president.
Speaker 2: Marge should be. With everything's going on, I could do
Speaker 2: it one hundred times better.
Speaker 4: Job.
Speaker 2: There would be no tariffs, see that, see that people
Speaker 2: out of business. That's a whole other story.
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to go now into what really counts you,
Speaker 1: guys the most out of all of this, housewise, what
Speaker 1: do you think of the show? Yes, what do you
Speaker 1: think about what's happening with the show?
Speaker 2: What do I think?
Speaker 1: Is?
Speaker 3: I think it is ludicrous?
Speaker 2: No, Joe, you know what I think.
Speaker 1: I think Wait, I think Sorry, Marge, tell me why
Speaker 1: you think it's ludicrous, because.
Speaker 3: Not for anything. I mean, the show was on in
Speaker 3: like thirty some odd countries. We had the highest ratings everywhere.
Speaker 3: For the most part, the cast got along and meshed
Speaker 3: with each other most part well, I said most part well.
Speaker 3: And the people who didn't Mesh really did not film
Speaker 3: with us that much. So the show is i'd say,
Speaker 3: very successful. And I think that the management wherever, whether
Speaker 3: it was a production company or a brother of themselves,
Speaker 3: did not give us enough. We didn't get enough episodes.
Speaker 3: They had I think they had more than enough things
Speaker 3: go on that they could film and we were successful,
Speaker 3: and I think it's ludicrous for them.
Speaker 2: I think it got a little dark. I think it
Speaker 2: got a little dark. I understand, I'm jesting. We still
Speaker 2: had great ratings the dead of the summer, you know
Speaker 2: that the dead of the summer on a Sunday where
Speaker 2: I don't feel like watching TV myself. I think our
Speaker 2: ratings were great, but I do think it is time
Speaker 2: for a little change up. Listen, we're close, we have
Speaker 2: close friendships with the other ways on the show. I
Speaker 2: think certain things turn too dark where people can't be
Speaker 2: around each other. That's a given.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, don't you feel like now I'm watching Atlanta obviously. Yes,
Speaker 1: last our Sunday night that was talk about dark.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think a few things, you know, and I
Speaker 2: think the social media leaks, social media league terrific. I
Speaker 2: think things happened. Uh, I'm kind of enjoying my you
Speaker 2: know break, you know, but it was a big part.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a you know, you were on
Speaker 2: a little bit but you can't compare time, but it
Speaker 2: was a big part of your life, even the short
Speaker 2: time as a friend of as a bad because it
Speaker 2: takes over. It does take over, so it is but
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the time with the people I love. Yeah you, Melissa,
Speaker 2: Rachel Dolores, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And before that, though years that before us, you are
Speaker 1: still loving it.
Speaker 2: I still love it, even though I you know some
Speaker 2: parts I could you know. I love my crew, I
Speaker 2: love the production. You know, I love being part of
Speaker 2: the brother film. But you know, nothing less forever. That's
Speaker 2: the other thing, nothing less forever. It's a part of
Speaker 2: my life, it's not my whole life.
Speaker 1: Do you want it? I know you're asked this constantly
Speaker 1: because I'm asked it constantly, and I'm not. I don't
Speaker 1: haven't been on the show for the time that you
Speaker 1: have or had the impact. But do you want it
Speaker 1: to come back? If you do, what do you want
Speaker 1: to see?
Speaker 2: Of course, listen, I never want to see Jersey go away.
Speaker 2: I think it's just such an iconic show. I'd like
Speaker 2: to come back in a fun way. I think people
Speaker 2: want it. But if it I would have liked to
Speaker 2: go out on more and be high. Yeah, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, as opposed to the way it did,
Speaker 2: so I would love that.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like because I mean again, like you've
Speaker 1: been people recognize you that don't recognize me. You've been
Speaker 1: doing this for way longer. But don't you feel like
Speaker 1: everyone seems to want it so badly?
Speaker 2: Yes, everybody.
Speaker 1: Everybody's like everyone else everyone When.
Speaker 2: I look at it this way, Also, Atlanta went away
Speaker 2: for a few years and came back. Yeah, and maybe
Speaker 2: some new alliteration. I don't think a total reboot would happen,
Speaker 2: but we'll see what happened. Yeah, you know, and I
Speaker 2: don't know where I'm going to be a year from now.
Speaker 2: I don't know where you're going to be a year
Speaker 2: from now. No one knows what's going to happen a
Speaker 2: year from now, But you know, we'll have to see
Speaker 2: what happens. That's kind of the way for you know.
Speaker 1: I mean I was on it the past two years,
Speaker 1: and I want to not like I just missed the show,
Speaker 1: like forget me on it?
Speaker 2: Like what now?
Speaker 1: What is going to happen? Where is Margaret?
Speaker 2: Where is Like? I think everybody's life is going to
Speaker 2: change and new things are going to happen to everybody,
Speaker 2: and I think there'll be new stories.
Speaker 1: There's something about Jersey, right, and I'm reading other you
Speaker 1: are first and foremost, Yes, something about Jersey.
Speaker 2: There's authentic.
Speaker 1: Friendships and relations people say the family thing, and of
Speaker 1: course I'll talk about Melissa and Teresa and there is that.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't know if something's in
Speaker 1: the water in Jersey. I think that just made the
Speaker 1: show so addict.
Speaker 2: I think people are very authentic, you know. I think
Speaker 2: it's very authentic relate not a lot of airs maybe
Speaker 2: put on as much as there are and some of
Speaker 2: the other shows. I think it's authentic relationships. I mean,
Speaker 2: I even said with Beverly Hills, and I love Beverly Hills,
Speaker 2: Tales watching and everything else. You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people don't say things is bluntly. Maybe
Speaker 2: we're more direct.
Speaker 1: Well when you say we, I know you mean you
Speaker 1: not as blunt as I am.
Speaker 2: You say things direct, well direct, you're more direct than them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I am too. I mean, listen, it's
Speaker 1: something you have to get used to. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you ever really had that, you never
Speaker 1: really had to get acclimated.
Speaker 2: You you went in with I was in business alone,
Speaker 2: right and working with men in this, that and the
Speaker 2: other thing. And you know, you don't get if you
Speaker 2: don't ask yeah the booth say well.
Speaker 1: The producer said to me before I started filming Season thirteen,
Speaker 1: your job is to say what you think. So things
Speaker 1: that you would never say now you say them. And
Speaker 1: that took a little getting used to for me to
Speaker 1: be able to articulate I think you're a fucking bitch
Speaker 1: like that. You know that's not a normal thing necessarily
Speaker 1: to say to somebody who you're friends with their wark
Speaker 1: rooms with. It's tricky, but you got the hang of
Speaker 1: it fast. It took me a little more time.
Speaker 2: Like I'd like to say, I know you do I
Speaker 2: like to say in my real life too, I know you.
Speaker 2: But then I like to move on very quickly because
Speaker 2: I don't like to hold a grudge. Yes atle grudge holder.
Speaker 1: I'm never crossing Djoe b Nigno ever ever ever, And
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 3: To put one more thing in. What people don't realize
Speaker 3: is on the show, they watched all of us talk, mingle, fight,
Speaker 3: get along, and now they're not filming. But the people
Speaker 3: who we were friends with on the show, we're still
Speaker 3: genuinely friends with. And that does not stop people we
Speaker 3: we are. We might argue and we make up, right,
Speaker 3: Jeff and I might go to someplace and we we
Speaker 3: do the same. We watch No, we never fight, but
Speaker 3: we watched the girls like have a discussion about a
Speaker 3: don I know, and we still do have it.
Speaker 1: I do. I will speak for myself.
Speaker 3: So when you're watching Jersey, they're really watching real life.
Speaker 3: It doesn't change. The only difference is there's a camera
Speaker 3: or not a camera. But it's exactly the same. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's interesting.
Speaker 2: We go to events together, we do fun things together,
Speaker 2: our feelings get hurt. Yes, so I think it's just
Speaker 2: I just recently went listen look just even on White
Speaker 2: Lotus the female friendships, right, it's very accurate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, actually, except I hate all three of
Speaker 1: those bitches. So I didn't like one of them, did you?
Speaker 2: I did, really betwe did like Cary Cohon. I did
Speaker 2: like Lori.
Speaker 1: I liked her the best. Yes, she was certainly the
Speaker 1: most authentic. I wanted to punch the other one in
Speaker 1: the face, the pretty one, but they were all pretty.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say that. But the one there was like
Speaker 1: the movie star.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't like her.
Speaker 1: Noxious woman.
Speaker 2: I didn't like her either.
Speaker 1: Anyway, you guys, I don't know how long we've been going,
Speaker 1: I could go on.
Speaker 2: I think this was a great thing.
Speaker 1: I love you guys so much. I just also want
Speaker 1: to say to listeners like, I don't know. It doesn't
Speaker 1: always work out like Margaret and Joe, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's such a it's so fabulous to hear
Speaker 1: a story like yours, to know that, like you went
Speaker 1: through hell, especially Margaret, as you were saying, like with
Speaker 1: the kids, and here you are.
Speaker 2: And now yes minus at six kids. Well everything was
Speaker 2: great with five Okay, on not so good. But you
Speaker 2: know what, I have adults at them all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, five, i'd say no, but I mean you're sitting
Speaker 1: on the couch crying because you're so grateful.
Speaker 2: And I think and I am so grateful, and Joe
Speaker 2: and I are. It's a it's a long time write.
Speaker 2: I mean even we didn't get married till twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: but it's a long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so listen. I mean there's something to be said
Speaker 1: for all of that. I love you both so much,
Speaker 1: love you, thank you for coming here, Thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: and thanks to all the listeners.
Speaker 3: Yeah there you go.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you both so much for coming on and
Speaker 1: being so open, and thank you for all the advice
Speaker 1: that you gave. It was, in my humble opinion, really
Speaker 1: great advice. So, listeners, are you going through a divorce,
Speaker 1: are you trying to navigate life after a breakup? Call us,
Speaker 1: email us, follow us on socials. All the information will
Speaker 1: be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and
Speaker 1: review the podcast please. I do part two at iHeart Podcast,
Speaker 1: where falling in love is the main objective.