WEBVTT - Decoding Psychedelics with Dr. Grace Blest-Hopley 0:00:17.130 --> 0:00:17.610 Pushkin. 0:00:24.170 --> 0:00:29.050 This show is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, 0:00:29.210 --> 0:00:33.650 or treatment. It is for informational purposes. Please consult your 0:00:33.690 --> 0:00:36.290 healthcare professional with any medical questions. 0:00:40.130 --> 0:00:43.250 Welcome back to Decoding Women's Health. I'm doctor Elizabeth Pointer. 0:00:44.210 --> 0:00:48.370 Psychedelics come with all sorts of associations and preconceived notions 0:00:48.970 --> 0:00:53.890 tech bros, Wild partying, Burning Man, and the nineteen seventies. 0:00:54.570 --> 0:00:57.730 But in recent years more research has emerged about the 0:00:57.730 --> 0:01:02.010 potential for psychedelics and clinical settings, and finally there are 0:01:02.050 --> 0:01:07.250 researchers studying these drugs with a specific audience in mind women. 0:01:07.970 --> 0:01:12.050 We really had never tried to properly understand women's biology 0:01:12.250 --> 0:01:16.770 in the context of many things, really, but especially in 0:01:16.890 --> 0:01:21.170 areas like mental health and how we think about treating them, 0:01:21.570 --> 0:01:23.810 and particularly as we came into this new world of 0:01:23.810 --> 0:01:27.250 psychedelics and psychedelic therapy. And for me, that was an 0:01:27.250 --> 0:01:30.810 incredibly start, considering that so many of the mechanisms that 0:01:30.810 --> 0:01:35.130 psychedelics work by have so much synergy with the mechanisms 0:01:35.130 --> 0:01:36.250 of female biology. 0:01:37.610 --> 0:01:42.050 That's doctor Grace Blessed Hopley. She's a neuroscientist and research 0:01:42.050 --> 0:01:46.930 associate at King's College, London, She's also the chief scientific 0:01:47.010 --> 0:01:50.330 officer at a biotech company in the UK focused on 0:01:50.370 --> 0:01:55.810 psychiatric and neurologic disorders, and the founder of Hisstelica, an 0:01:55.970 --> 0:02:01.290 organization that focuses on psychedelics and female biology. Much of 0:02:01.330 --> 0:02:05.610 her academic research focused on cannabinoids, but her background as 0:02:05.650 --> 0:02:09.130 an Army reserve officer and her work with military veterans 0:02:09.650 --> 0:02:13.929 led her to the field of psychedelics research. She believes 0:02:13.930 --> 0:02:17.330 that psychedelics can be powerful tools for helping people living 0:02:17.329 --> 0:02:21.890 with depression and post traumatic stress disorder, which is commonly 0:02:21.929 --> 0:02:26.409 referred to as PTSD, and she's seen firsthand how these 0:02:26.450 --> 0:02:29.410 treatments can be helpful for people from all different walks 0:02:29.410 --> 0:02:32.890 of life in dealing with mental and physical health challenges. 0:02:36.370 --> 0:02:39.489 How did you first get interested in the therapeutic benefits 0:02:39.530 --> 0:02:40.570 of psychedelics. 0:02:40.810 --> 0:02:43.330 Yeah, well, I think there has been the knowledge that 0:02:43.329 --> 0:02:47.730 psychedelics can be useful for treating mental health conditions for millennia. 0:02:48.010 --> 0:02:50.770 If we look into practices that have gone on in 0:02:50.769 --> 0:02:54.930 the Amazon jungle, for instance, using substances like hyahuasca, it's 0:02:55.090 --> 0:02:58.090 been very commonplace for a long time, but for me 0:02:58.730 --> 0:03:01.810 it kind of was a little bit observational. Also in 0:03:01.889 --> 0:03:06.290 terms of seeing substances that were perhaps being used in 0:03:06.329 --> 0:03:10.090 a more of a recreational party scene and seeing the 0:03:10.169 --> 0:03:12.769 changes that were coming about in those people, and that 0:03:12.889 --> 0:03:15.970 really sparked a huge curiosity in me to try and. 0:03:16.049 --> 0:03:17.250 Understand why that was. 0:03:17.450 --> 0:03:20.290 And so once I got that opportunity to do the 0:03:20.329 --> 0:03:24.169 work alongside particularly military vecterans with whom I was able 0:03:24.209 --> 0:03:27.930 to understand quite the severity of the issues that they 0:03:27.970 --> 0:03:33.370 often face and see that immediate and significant change in 0:03:33.410 --> 0:03:36.730 mental health progress, then I really was particularly sole. But 0:03:36.770 --> 0:03:38.930 you know, as any good scientists, I always want to 0:03:38.970 --> 0:03:41.369 see the data. I always want to see the proof. 0:03:42.170 --> 0:03:44.570 I wanted to have doctor Blessed Hopley on the show 0:03:44.650 --> 0:03:48.290 because all of this research and interest and investment in 0:03:48.330 --> 0:03:53.530 psychedelics has made this a very buzzy space. Many people 0:03:53.570 --> 0:03:58.369 out there are curious about these drugs. Personally, I'm really 0:03:58.410 --> 0:04:00.850 interested in what the latest research is showing us about 0:04:00.850 --> 0:04:05.010 the potential for treatment options to help people overcome past 0:04:05.010 --> 0:04:09.890 trauma or manage chronic pain. I'll admit I'm fascinated by 0:04:09.890 --> 0:04:12.850 this space, but some of the terminology is quite new 0:04:12.890 --> 0:04:16.130 to me. So I am doctor Blessed Hopley to walk 0:04:16.210 --> 0:04:19.529 us through the basics. First, can you give us a 0:04:19.610 --> 0:04:23.170 psychedelic one oh one kind of overview, like what are 0:04:23.210 --> 0:04:26.330 psychedelic substances, what are they actually doing to our brain? 0:04:26.970 --> 0:04:30.730 What is a psychedelic versus a hallucinogen? Just give us 0:04:30.730 --> 0:04:32.810 a big broad one oh one. 0:04:33.289 --> 0:04:35.530 Of course I would love to use so first of 0:04:35.529 --> 0:04:36.930 all to say, you know, the difference between what we 0:04:37.010 --> 0:04:40.770 might call a psychedelic or a hallucinogen, it's not super 0:04:41.330 --> 0:04:43.730 well defined off when we might call a psychedelic and 0:04:43.770 --> 0:04:47.290 hallucinogen interchangeably, it's more common that we would use the 0:04:47.289 --> 0:04:50.570 word psychedelic now than hallucinogen, because there is you know, 0:04:50.650 --> 0:04:54.089 more effects than just hallucination with these substances. You can 0:04:54.130 --> 0:04:57.330 broadly break down psychedelics kind of into two categories, classical 0:04:57.330 --> 0:05:02.330 psychedelics and non classical psychedelics. When we talk about classical psychedelics, 0:05:02.330 --> 0:05:07.130 that's when we're talking about substances like psilocybin, lsd ayahuasca. 0:05:07.330 --> 0:05:11.130 You know, DMT the main active component of yahuasca, And 0:05:11.170 --> 0:05:15.290 these are all substances that primarily work by engaging our 0:05:15.330 --> 0:05:19.050 serotonin system and engaging with a particular receptor in that 0:05:19.130 --> 0:05:20.130 serotonergic system. 0:05:20.170 --> 0:05:21.930 The five HT two a receptor. 0:05:22.450 --> 0:05:25.970 Now they also bind with many other receptors and other 0:05:26.570 --> 0:05:29.370 networks within our brain, but this is the primary network 0:05:29.370 --> 0:05:32.490 they work through through the serotonergic system, and when they 0:05:32.529 --> 0:05:35.010 have this activation at the system, that's when we get 0:05:35.010 --> 0:05:38.330 the effects that we might associate with things like hallucinations, 0:05:38.330 --> 0:05:41.330 for instance. And what we actually see is that our 0:05:41.370 --> 0:05:43.609 brain is structured in a way that we sort of 0:05:43.610 --> 0:05:46.289 have a control center which is in the middle, and 0:05:46.330 --> 0:05:48.610 then we have sort of areas like our prefrontal cortex 0:05:49.210 --> 0:05:52.369 and other parts which are more sort of gray matter 0:05:52.409 --> 0:05:55.850 that get recruited in when they are required from the 0:05:55.890 --> 0:05:59.650 control center, if you were. Now, when we take psychedelics, 0:05:59.650 --> 0:06:03.170 what we see is that this control center is actually 0:06:03.210 --> 0:06:05.650 no longer dictating the information that comes in, and we 0:06:05.690 --> 0:06:08.890 actually see activation happening across the brain. So we see 0:06:09.050 --> 0:06:11.690 a lot of sort of cross talk betweens of the 0:06:11.690 --> 0:06:15.650 brain that might not always under normal situations be able 0:06:15.690 --> 0:06:17.849 to communicate. And that's where we start to see the 0:06:17.849 --> 0:06:20.730 effects in terms of how we're able to, you know, 0:06:20.810 --> 0:06:24.210 go back and process certain memories that perhaps we wouldn't 0:06:24.210 --> 0:06:27.130 be able to get at in previous times. We might 0:06:27.170 --> 0:06:30.330 hear things or perceive things or see things, and we 0:06:30.450 --> 0:06:34.969 have these very transformative experiences in terms of how we 0:06:35.050 --> 0:06:37.809 feel while we're under the influence of the substance. Now 0:06:38.050 --> 0:06:40.770 that's the psychedelic experience in itself, but there's actually so 0:06:40.890 --> 0:06:43.450 much more that goes on. And as I said, you know, 0:06:43.650 --> 0:06:46.089 they engage a number of different receptors in the brain, 0:06:46.170 --> 0:06:49.409 and so beyond the kind of experiential part that we 0:06:49.450 --> 0:06:53.450 have under psychedelics, we see biochemical changes that come about 0:06:53.490 --> 0:06:56.210 after psychedelic use, and what we're talking about there is 0:06:56.690 --> 0:07:00.450 essentially changes that happen on a cellular level that can 0:07:00.849 --> 0:07:04.569 increase things like neuroplasticity, so the ability for the brain 0:07:04.770 --> 0:07:07.650 brain to kind of grow and change and make new connections, 0:07:07.690 --> 0:07:09.930 which is what we need in order to make new 0:07:09.970 --> 0:07:13.730 memories or to form new thought patterns. And we also 0:07:13.810 --> 0:07:16.570 see changes in things like neurogenesis, so actually you know, 0:07:16.610 --> 0:07:20.290 starting to produce new proteins and new cells potentially even 0:07:20.530 --> 0:07:23.330 within our brain. So there is this incredible kind of 0:07:23.370 --> 0:07:25.890 after glow effect that goes on for depending on the 0:07:25.890 --> 0:07:29.730 psychedelic you know, days weeks after. So that's largely what 0:07:29.770 --> 0:07:32.250 we're talking about when we talk about classic psychedelics. 0:07:32.250 --> 0:07:33.850 But as you're right. There are a number of. 0:07:33.890 --> 0:07:37.890 Other things that substances that are very similar and what 0:07:37.890 --> 0:07:41.650 we might call non classical psychedelics, and that includes things 0:07:41.650 --> 0:07:46.610 like ketamine, MDMA, cannabis even and when we think about them, 0:07:46.650 --> 0:07:49.930 they have quite different mechanisms. MDMA is probably the most 0:07:49.930 --> 0:07:52.930 similar to classic psychedelics and that it also works through 0:07:52.930 --> 0:07:55.810 the serotonergic system, but it doesn't work quite in the 0:07:55.890 --> 0:07:59.210 same way, so we don't quite get the hallucinatory parts. 0:07:59.450 --> 0:08:01.890 We'd often call that more of an en pathogen. So 0:08:01.970 --> 0:08:04.530 often the feelings that we have on MDMA are more 0:08:04.570 --> 0:08:08.810 associated to this reduction in fear and increased feeling of 0:08:09.050 --> 0:08:12.570 connectedness perhaps with the people that we're with, and that's 0:08:12.570 --> 0:08:15.330 why we use MDMA in a lot of psychedelical system 0:08:15.330 --> 0:08:19.450 therapies that involve sort of talking about potentially traumatic incidences 0:08:19.490 --> 0:08:22.130 that have happened, or in couples therapy for instance, where 0:08:22.130 --> 0:08:24.650 they able to empathize with each other on a different level, 0:08:24.650 --> 0:08:28.770 and it can be very beneficial there. Ketamin is a 0:08:28.850 --> 0:08:32.450 drug that has some of the hallucinatory effects I suppose 0:08:32.570 --> 0:08:35.650 of classic psychedelics, and a lot of the benefit people 0:08:35.930 --> 0:08:38.570 get from ketamin can be about the experience in a 0:08:38.610 --> 0:08:42.010 similar way that it is in classic psychedelics, but it 0:08:42.050 --> 0:08:44.490 actually works in a very different way. And so though 0:08:44.490 --> 0:08:46.730 it can be similar in how it can sometimes feel, 0:08:46.770 --> 0:08:49.850 it is quite different mechanistically. And finally, cannabis is always 0:08:49.850 --> 0:08:53.050 the huge argument is cannabis is psychedelic or not. I 0:08:53.050 --> 0:08:57.250 think I've been persuaded it is. Why is that, I 0:08:57.290 --> 0:09:02.410 think because the endocannabinoid system is very complicated in itself, 0:09:02.450 --> 0:09:05.770 and that's the primary system within our brain by which 0:09:05.770 --> 0:09:08.410 cannabis works, and it can have a number of these 0:09:08.410 --> 0:09:11.689 sort of you know, multi system effects that can then 0:09:11.809 --> 0:09:15.370 lead to having these experiences that can feel like a 0:09:15.370 --> 0:09:19.170 psychedelic experience. And also, because we now know as well 0:09:19.210 --> 0:09:22.170 just quite how many other neurosystems in the brain that 0:09:22.250 --> 0:09:26.330 cannabis and cannabinoids can affect, so they are also having 0:09:26.370 --> 0:09:31.290 this sort of multi level engagement with various different brain substrates, 0:09:31.290 --> 0:09:32.449 I suppose, So so. 0:09:32.450 --> 0:09:35.290 Fair to say that a psychedelic is kind of unlicks 0:09:35.290 --> 0:09:37.729 the brain, so it can communicate in ways that are 0:09:37.730 --> 0:09:41.210 typically suppressed. So it's taking the breaks off our brain 0:09:41.250 --> 0:09:43.449 a little bit and allowing it just to expand and 0:09:43.610 --> 0:09:45.290 have different communication networks. 0:09:46.210 --> 0:09:46.530 Yeah. 0:09:46.569 --> 0:09:48.850 Absolutely, And you know, we have to really think of 0:09:48.890 --> 0:09:51.850 our brain as you know, a very kind of fine 0:09:51.890 --> 0:09:55.530 tuned machine and part of what it has to do. 0:09:56.130 --> 0:09:58.650 You know, we often always associate more with better, but 0:09:58.970 --> 0:10:01.450 actually more is not always the most efficient, and so 0:10:01.730 --> 0:10:05.570 our brains are evolved and adapted to only really recruit 0:10:05.610 --> 0:10:07.410 the parts that it needs in order to. 0:10:07.370 --> 0:10:08.250 Complete the task. 0:10:08.850 --> 0:10:12.090 Now, that's fine if the part of the brain that 0:10:12.410 --> 0:10:16.090 is recruiting those other parts in is very plastic and 0:10:16.170 --> 0:10:19.689 adaptive and has sort of good blueprints I suppose, with 0:10:19.770 --> 0:10:23.010 which it is wanting to engage other parts of our brain. 0:10:23.050 --> 0:10:26.690 But when we see things like depression, anxiety, and post 0:10:26.730 --> 0:10:31.329 traumatic stress disorder, what we often see often built in 0:10:31.530 --> 0:10:36.410 from very very foundational you know, early early childhood years 0:10:36.450 --> 0:10:39.290 in some people, that this part of the brain can 0:10:39.850 --> 0:10:42.370 start to become very rigid. I like to think of 0:10:42.410 --> 0:10:44.330 it a little bit like if you think of a 0:10:44.450 --> 0:10:47.010 small stream that comes to a beach and is going 0:10:47.050 --> 0:10:49.929 into the ocean, and it just dives one very deep 0:10:49.970 --> 0:10:52.850 groove within the sand, and when we take a psychedelic 0:10:52.929 --> 0:10:56.490 a huge wave comes and washes over the beach, and 0:10:56.569 --> 0:10:59.170 those deep grooves get kind of filled in a little 0:10:59.490 --> 0:11:02.170 and they allow the water to now potentially take other 0:11:02.250 --> 0:11:04.850 roots down to the sea. And that is sort of 0:11:04.850 --> 0:11:08.130 what happens with the way that the structure of how 0:11:08.170 --> 0:11:10.770 our brain communicates changes under a psychedelic. 0:11:11.170 --> 0:11:14.170 So in terms of the impact the change and the 0:11:14.210 --> 0:11:17.130 impact of the change, how rapidly does one see that, 0:11:17.170 --> 0:11:19.770 Do you use a psychedelic and then three days later 0:11:19.929 --> 0:11:22.810 you feel more empathy and more at peace with the world, 0:11:22.970 --> 0:11:25.490 Or how long does it take for these changes to 0:11:25.569 --> 0:11:28.290 really impact how you feel or how you look at 0:11:28.290 --> 0:11:30.530 the world, And then how long do they last for. 0:11:31.450 --> 0:11:34.689 It can really be very dependent on people's experience and 0:11:34.770 --> 0:11:37.490 what they uncover, because sometimes as well, we go and 0:11:37.610 --> 0:11:40.809 we take these substances and what they are essentially are 0:11:40.850 --> 0:11:41.490 they are just. 0:11:41.490 --> 0:11:43.370 Catalysts to our own psyche right. 0:11:43.250 --> 0:11:47.170 They're not really bringing anything new, They're just unlocking doors 0:11:47.210 --> 0:11:49.050 that we are able to then access things that are 0:11:49.090 --> 0:11:52.290 already there. And so if you go with a problem 0:11:52.330 --> 0:11:54.929 that maybe you don't have any oversight of and you 0:11:55.010 --> 0:11:57.730 instantly are able to sort of see it and realize it, well, 0:11:58.650 --> 0:11:59.970 are you instantly then better? 0:12:00.090 --> 0:12:00.330 Well? 0:12:00.490 --> 0:12:03.370 Maybe probably not, because you probably have to now integrate 0:12:03.450 --> 0:12:06.729 that into your life and understand what it means and 0:12:06.809 --> 0:12:09.209 change you know the behaviors in your day to day 0:12:09.250 --> 0:12:12.850 living that allow you to become happier and healthier and 0:12:12.890 --> 0:12:14.690 you know, more connected and all the things that we 0:12:14.770 --> 0:12:18.610 know that are possible. So it isn't quite a case 0:12:18.850 --> 0:12:21.450 of you will take it and then suddenly feel better. 0:12:22.610 --> 0:12:23.490 Often people do. 0:12:23.730 --> 0:12:27.970 Often people have a really pleasant time in the experience, 0:12:28.410 --> 0:12:33.090 but sometimes as well, people do realize very deep and 0:12:33.130 --> 0:12:37.810 potentially hidden aspects of themselves, and that takes time to integrate. 0:12:38.010 --> 0:12:40.089 And so I like to think that that there are 0:12:40.130 --> 0:12:43.330 catalysts to getting better forever, as opposed to you will 0:12:43.330 --> 0:12:45.650 take it and then suddenly you will be healed. 0:12:46.050 --> 0:12:48.450 But if we look at what's happening. 0:12:48.090 --> 0:12:52.130 In clinical trials, if we look at the amount of 0:12:52.170 --> 0:12:55.410 people who've got treatment resistant depressions, for instance, who have 0:12:55.530 --> 0:13:00.290 had significant clinical improvement in their condition, we definitely are 0:13:00.330 --> 0:13:03.170 able to do that. And that is you know, normally, 0:13:03.530 --> 0:13:06.290 within you know, a month or so of having the 0:13:06.330 --> 0:13:10.090 treatment that they would do those follow up assessments. Now, 0:13:10.170 --> 0:13:13.170 in terms of the long longevity of it, again, like 0:13:13.210 --> 0:13:15.730 I say, how much you integrate this into your life. 0:13:16.050 --> 0:13:18.370 You can take a psychedelic and feel amazing and be 0:13:18.569 --> 0:13:21.490 dancing around having the most wonderful time. But if you 0:13:21.530 --> 0:13:26.210 don't do anything about what you potentially are learning about 0:13:26.290 --> 0:13:29.290 yourself during this experience, and you just carry on all 0:13:29.330 --> 0:13:32.490 of the same practices in two three four weeks time, 0:13:32.730 --> 0:13:34.809 you'll feel exactly the same as you did before you 0:13:34.850 --> 0:13:37.370 took the psychedelic and the same again if you ever 0:13:37.410 --> 0:13:40.650 do it in a very therapeutic way. And we do 0:13:40.809 --> 0:13:43.730 see this within these clinical trials. Now we're starting to 0:13:43.730 --> 0:13:47.170 get follow ups that are six months a year down 0:13:47.170 --> 0:13:47.650 the line. 0:13:48.730 --> 0:13:50.770 There's still a very good, meaningful. 0:13:50.370 --> 0:13:52.969 Benefit to a majority of people who've been in the trial, 0:13:53.050 --> 0:13:57.209 but people do start to regress back towards the baseline, 0:13:57.569 --> 0:13:59.329 and so you know, it's not this sort of one 0:13:59.410 --> 0:14:02.610 and done that perhaps we'd originally thought with psychedelics, and 0:14:02.650 --> 0:14:04.010 maybe you can just take it once and then you 0:14:04.050 --> 0:14:06.530 work at all your problems and then you never have 0:14:06.610 --> 0:14:09.210 to take it again. It's not really that, it's sort off. 0:14:09.210 --> 0:14:11.890 You take it and then you kind of stops the 0:14:12.010 --> 0:14:15.450 journey that you do need to pay attention to in 0:14:15.569 --> 0:14:18.089 order to maintain getting benefit in the long run. 0:14:19.490 --> 0:14:23.370 Coming up, we discuss the potential uses of psychedelics specifically 0:14:23.410 --> 0:14:26.890 tailored for women, and how these drugs may interact with 0:14:26.890 --> 0:14:40.810 our hormones more in just a moment. Whenever a new 0:14:40.850 --> 0:14:44.650 study is published on psychedelic assisted therapies, I find myself 0:14:44.730 --> 0:14:48.450 drawn to it. Typically, this type of treatment is taking 0:14:48.490 --> 0:14:53.290 place in a controlled clinical setting where trained therapist or 0:14:53.290 --> 0:14:57.570 clinical staff are involved before, during, and after the drug 0:14:57.610 --> 0:15:01.530 is administered, and training facilitators are part of the process, 0:15:02.090 --> 0:15:07.450 helping participants prepare beforehand, staying with them during the experience, 0:15:07.730 --> 0:15:13.290 and guiding integration sessions afterward. The idea is that the 0:15:13.410 --> 0:15:18.170 drug alone isn't the treatment, it's actually the combination of 0:15:18.210 --> 0:15:22.330 the substance with the structured psychological support. I wanted to 0:15:22.370 --> 0:15:25.770 hear from doctor Bless Hapley about what conditions these types 0:15:25.810 --> 0:15:31.410 of therapies may be most effective for. So what types 0:15:31.450 --> 0:15:35.610 of conditions would midlife women women look for in terms 0:15:35.610 --> 0:15:38.410 of using a psychedelic The. 0:15:38.410 --> 0:15:41.290 List goes on and on. Right in oncology, there is 0:15:41.290 --> 0:15:44.570 some incredible work. There's some amazing work going on in 0:15:44.610 --> 0:15:48.530 neurodegenerative disorders, and obviously we know women are so much 0:15:48.570 --> 0:15:51.890 more prevalent to developing neurodegenerative disorders later in life. So 0:15:52.570 --> 0:15:55.170 I think that work is still in its infancy, but 0:15:55.290 --> 0:15:58.130 is extremely promising. So there's a long long list of 0:15:58.170 --> 0:16:00.130 things that they can be useful, but the primary thing 0:16:00.170 --> 0:16:02.810 with which they are being investigated for at the moment 0:16:02.890 --> 0:16:06.970 are largely mental health conditions and primarily depressive conditions, so 0:16:07.090 --> 0:16:10.410 things like treatment resistant depression or major depressive disorders. 0:16:10.450 --> 0:16:12.370 So interesting, but yeah, very interesting. 0:16:12.410 --> 0:16:15.810 But I think, particularly for women, I think there is 0:16:15.850 --> 0:16:19.850 this amazing opportunity to explore how psychedelics could be useful 0:16:19.890 --> 0:16:24.730 for pre menstrual conditions. I've been thinking particularly around PMDD 0:16:25.250 --> 0:16:29.010 pre mensional dysphoric disorder, which is a pre mental disorder 0:16:29.010 --> 0:16:32.570 that is a very severe form of PMS. Essentially it 0:16:32.650 --> 0:16:35.250 affects up to eight percent of women and really is 0:16:36.010 --> 0:16:39.330 a very very marked change in their mood and behavior 0:16:39.650 --> 0:16:42.650 around the final week, sometimes even as long as the 0:16:42.650 --> 0:16:45.010 whole Luther your face, so final two weeks of their 0:16:45.050 --> 0:16:47.050 mental cycle. But one of the things that we do 0:16:47.170 --> 0:16:50.570 know about this condition, unfortunately it is highly associated with 0:16:50.690 --> 0:16:54.570 previous life traumas. We also know that PMDD seems to 0:16:54.570 --> 0:16:58.210 be associated with changes in sensitivity of things like our 0:16:58.250 --> 0:17:00.890 progesterone receptors, and that could be a lot to do 0:17:00.930 --> 0:17:03.570 with why women feel like like this and potentially to 0:17:03.610 --> 0:17:06.330 do with their stress responses and their HPA access, and 0:17:06.370 --> 0:17:08.970 these are all things that we are starting to think 0:17:09.050 --> 0:17:12.570 that psychedelics could interact with with HPA axis. 0:17:12.810 --> 0:17:14.970 Could you just define for our listeners what the HPA 0:17:15.090 --> 0:17:17.130 access is. I know what it is, but I don't. 0:17:17.170 --> 0:17:18.330 Lot of people probably don't. 0:17:18.609 --> 0:17:23.410 Yeah, the hypothermic pituitary access is essentially a feedback loop 0:17:23.490 --> 0:17:26.970 within our bodies that involves a couple of structures within 0:17:27.010 --> 0:17:34.210 our brains, and it's primarily the system that dictates our 0:17:34.290 --> 0:17:36.810 coursol and our cord sole release, and so our kind 0:17:36.810 --> 0:17:37.730 of stress response. 0:17:37.850 --> 0:17:39.330 Now cors soil is. 0:17:39.290 --> 0:17:41.170 Needed because if we didn't have it, we would struggle 0:17:41.170 --> 0:17:43.330 to get ourselves out of bed in the morning, and 0:17:43.410 --> 0:17:46.610 so we have a small spike every every morning. It's 0:17:46.650 --> 0:17:48.570 a kind of waking response. But we also have a 0:17:48.570 --> 0:17:52.050 spike when we have any stresses that come in our lives, 0:17:52.090 --> 0:17:55.209 and when we have repeated stresses or chronic stresses that 0:17:55.290 --> 0:17:57.729 are not tigers but in fact a never ending email 0:17:57.850 --> 0:18:01.250 chain or something, then we can start to get dysregulation 0:18:01.490 --> 0:18:04.930 in that feedback system, and that's when we start to see, 0:18:04.970 --> 0:18:08.850 you know, increases in things like anxiety disorders, insomnia particularly, 0:18:09.609 --> 0:18:14.010 and it's HPA access. It is the conductor to the orchestra, 0:18:14.129 --> 0:18:18.810 if you like, of dictating when we start releasing different 0:18:18.850 --> 0:18:21.370 hormones at different parts of our mental cycles. So if 0:18:21.410 --> 0:18:25.649 it becomes dysregulated through stress dysregulation, but when we do 0:18:25.690 --> 0:18:28.969 start to see people having issues with prematural symptoms and 0:18:29.010 --> 0:18:32.169 potentially changes in their mental cycle length or even their fertility. 0:18:32.170 --> 0:18:38.010 Maybe so knowing that psychedelics potentially can alleviate some of 0:18:38.250 --> 0:18:41.850 this dysregulation in the system could be very useful for women. 0:18:41.890 --> 0:18:45.609 But we need to investigate and understand that, I think 0:18:45.770 --> 0:18:47.770 in a way that we've not been very used to doing. 0:18:48.170 --> 0:18:51.490 How about the use of psychedelics for chronic pelvic pain, 0:18:51.609 --> 0:18:56.570 pulvic floor dysfunction, women with endometriosis who suffer from terribly 0:18:57.410 --> 0:18:59.889 Any work going on in that area in terms of 0:18:59.930 --> 0:19:01.810 women's health specifically. 0:19:01.770 --> 0:19:04.970 Yeah, absolutely, I even myself have been doing some work 0:19:05.010 --> 0:19:07.250 in to this around the idea of chronic pelvit pain 0:19:07.250 --> 0:19:11.010 and women. So things like endometriosis or volverdina for instance. 0:19:11.770 --> 0:19:14.369 Sometimes we forget that there are two sides to pain. 0:19:14.490 --> 0:19:16.450 There's the thing that is causing the pain and there's 0:19:16.490 --> 0:19:18.810 the thing that is perceiving the pain, and if the 0:19:18.850 --> 0:19:22.090 thing that is perceiving the pain, I er brains has 0:19:22.170 --> 0:19:27.330 gotten stuck on thinking pain is expected in those rigid 0:19:27.369 --> 0:19:29.850 ways that I talked about about earlier that we sometimes 0:19:29.850 --> 0:19:32.889 get in these control centers of our brain, then we 0:19:32.930 --> 0:19:35.770 are expecting to feel pain. And when we're expecting to 0:19:35.770 --> 0:19:38.810 feel pain, any pain that we do then feel, we 0:19:38.850 --> 0:19:42.090 will feel in a more intense way. So by being 0:19:42.129 --> 0:19:44.929 able to potentially change some of those pathways within the 0:19:44.930 --> 0:19:47.209 brain around pain perception, and some of the work we 0:19:47.210 --> 0:19:49.369 did in some military actions with chronic pain kind of 0:19:49.410 --> 0:19:53.010 showed this that perhaps although the pain in the actual 0:19:53.050 --> 0:19:58.770 limb itself, the aggrogreic gating factord not change their perception 0:19:58.850 --> 0:20:00.729 of the pain, and their relationship with the pain had 0:20:00.810 --> 0:20:03.090 changed as such that they no longer felt like they 0:20:03.129 --> 0:20:04.649 were in as much chronic pain or they were no 0:20:04.690 --> 0:20:07.050 longer bothered by it as much as they were previously. 0:20:07.129 --> 0:20:09.850 So I think there is a huge potential for women 0:20:09.930 --> 0:20:13.810 in this area. And also I think there's something about 0:20:13.850 --> 0:20:18.770 psychedelics that really allow us to kind of include things 0:20:18.770 --> 0:20:21.649 like embodiment practices where we can really start to actually 0:20:22.369 --> 0:20:26.050 connect our wonderful you know, all controlling brains, less them 0:20:26.369 --> 0:20:28.889 to our bodies, which actually have a lot more input, 0:20:28.930 --> 0:20:31.249 I think than we often give them credit for. And 0:20:31.290 --> 0:20:35.090 we know that within women particularly, we often do kind 0:20:35.129 --> 0:20:37.650 of dissociate away from our bodies, particularly when we've had 0:20:37.930 --> 0:20:40.730 a lot of unexplained chronic pelvic pains that maybe we've 0:20:40.770 --> 0:20:42.209 not been you. 0:20:42.210 --> 0:20:44.290 Know, listened to properly in our healthcare systems. 0:20:45.090 --> 0:20:48.570 And so having the ability to also connect with our 0:20:48.570 --> 0:20:52.409 bodies and think about how movement practices can be used 0:20:52.490 --> 0:20:55.530 in collaboration with psychedelics or you know, as a kind 0:20:55.570 --> 0:21:00.810 of mindfulness practice could also be very very useful for these, yeah, 0:21:00.890 --> 0:21:02.050 particular conditions. 0:21:02.490 --> 0:21:05.169 So a lot of the midlife women have issues with 0:21:05.290 --> 0:21:10.010 sleep insomnia that sometimes aren't even corrected with proper hormonal management, 0:21:10.570 --> 0:21:16.410 application of psychedelic treatments or uses with chronic sleep issues 0:21:16.450 --> 0:21:17.810 and insomnia issues. 0:21:17.970 --> 0:21:20.449 Yeah, and insomnia is a really interesting one because there 0:21:20.490 --> 0:21:20.850 can be. 0:21:20.730 --> 0:21:24.650 So many reasons why, right why we are having insomnia problems. 0:21:24.730 --> 0:21:27.810 One of the common ones and women can be dysregulation 0:21:27.890 --> 0:21:31.370 of quartsole released and sometimes we're very stressed, we're releasing 0:21:31.369 --> 0:21:33.570 cortal at the wrong time, and then it's difficult for 0:21:33.650 --> 0:21:36.889 us to be asleep when that is happening. You know, 0:21:36.930 --> 0:21:39.730 that's very closely tied with anxiety, which is one of 0:21:39.770 --> 0:21:43.610 the main drivers for insomnia, and we know that psychedelics 0:21:43.609 --> 0:21:48.210 improve anxiety. And you know, the final women's specific kind 0:21:48.250 --> 0:21:51.369 of midlife psychedelic use that I wanted to come to 0:21:52.170 --> 0:21:55.249 is of course, that of perimenopause and menopause, and I 0:21:55.290 --> 0:21:59.930 think sleep is obviously a huge, hugely associated symptom within 0:22:00.010 --> 0:22:03.330 that field. And overall we've seen that the women who've 0:22:03.369 --> 0:22:05.970 gone and taken psychedelics at retreats have reported to us 0:22:06.330 --> 0:22:10.050 a vast improvement in a large range of menopause symptoms, 0:22:10.210 --> 0:22:13.050 including this, and the reasons for that I think could 0:22:13.090 --> 0:22:14.850 be manifold. 0:22:15.930 --> 0:22:16.650 With estrogen. 0:22:16.690 --> 0:22:19.530 We also know that it highly affects the serotonergic system, 0:22:19.970 --> 0:22:24.929 increases the amount of serotonin serotonin network activation, and it 0:22:24.970 --> 0:22:28.330 also has these hugely neuroprotective effects and effects that increase 0:22:28.369 --> 0:22:31.730 things like neuroplasticity, and so when we lose those effects 0:22:31.810 --> 0:22:36.530 during perimenopause and menopause, there can be very much correlated 0:22:36.650 --> 0:22:42.570 with the development of a number of issues with anxiety, sleep, depression, 0:22:43.090 --> 0:22:46.530