1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to this informed a mini series from There 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd. Last 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: week we talked to journalists Michael Hobbs on the podcast 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: You're Wrong About about the origins of our current moral 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: panic around trafficking. I will say just on these kinds 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: of things, it's it's never strangers. It's never like these 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: kinds of mono myths. Anything that looks like the sort 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: of remember the flashing your high beams gang initiation stuff, 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: those are totally bunk. Anything involving like random targeting of civilians, 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: it's that really never happens. Anything the stranger is kidnapping 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: you in broad daylight. I think there's like certain categories 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: of anecdotes that are just like these ones never turned 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: out to be true, so we should just stop sharing them. Like, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: don't don't feel like you have to warn people about 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: anything involving a parking lot. If a parking lot is involved, 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: people are safe. A lot of a converse nations creating 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: panic around trafficking and parking lots are happening on the 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: platform TikTok. Women are using the platform to warn others 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: about what they describe as narrowly missing being kidnapped from 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: a public place and almost trafficked. But that's not how 21 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 1: trafficking works. It isn't affluent women being kidnapped from public places. 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: So how did these women come to take up so 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: much room in the conversations on TikTok around trafficking and 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: what's really going on? Hear me out, were you almost 25 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: sex trafficked at target? Or have you fallen victim to 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: a false narrative pushed by social media for years now 27 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: perpetuates a false stereotype about what sex trafficking actually looks like, 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: because if we actually wanted to talk about what sex 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: trafficking actually looks like, required talking about how the kidnapping 30 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: narrative is actually incredibly false, because most victims of sex 31 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: trafficking are actually groomed into it over a long period 32 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: of time by somebody they know and trust. But people 33 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: don't want to talk about that because it's much easier 34 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: to be afraid of boogeyman that it is to hold 35 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: the people you know and trust accountable, which would then 36 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: lead to a larger conversation about why the overwhelming majority 37 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: of people who claim to have almost been sex trafficked 38 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: are usually pretty affluent young whites to straight women. Despite 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: the fact that every reputable anti kicking organization could tell 40 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,279 Speaker 1: you that the most vulnerable populations for sex trafficking are minority, queer, 41 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: homeless youth, people do not want to talk about this 42 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: because Republicans and evangelicals have been pushing this narrative for decades. 43 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: Is when you have a population that does not know 44 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: the difference between voluntary sex work and sex trafficking, you 45 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: can push for legislation that not only hurts minorities, but 46 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: also hurts and sex where heres they all fucking hate. 47 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: It's time to stop leaving that every scary thing you've 48 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: ever experienced is the work of a sex trafficker and 49 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: start listening to sex workers who know what the signs 50 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: actually look like. That's Jessica. She makes viral content that 51 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: gives accurate information about trafficking and debunks viral misinformation about 52 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: it on TikTok, and she says spreading myths around trafficking 53 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: is doing real harm. So my name is Jessica, but 54 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: online I go about blood bath and beyond. How did 55 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: you come to making TikTok specifically about debunking panics and 56 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: myth around myth ground sex trafficking. So I originally downloaded 57 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: TikTok because I heard there was this new app for 58 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: young kids and everybody was on and it was really cool. 59 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: So I was like, Oh, let's check it out. See 60 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: what all the young kids are doing. So I got 61 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: on it. I was watching a lot of content, and 62 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: then somehow I found this in che of like dungeons 63 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: and dragons content. I was like, Oh, I can make 64 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: fun dungeons and dragons jokes. So I started making content 65 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: like that. But then there was actually a lot of 66 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: sexism involved in that community, and a lot of gatekeeping 67 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: of like, oh, women always play these stereotypical characters and 68 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: they do all of these things. Because what's a really niche, 69 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: nerdy community without putting some sort of stereotype on women, 70 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: And so I just I fell out of that community 71 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: and I started making just random things. It turned into 72 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: like a personal blog for a short while, and then 73 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: I started finding a lot of videos online of people 74 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: asking just random questions and I was like, oh, I 75 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: actually know the answer to that. And I found myself 76 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: in a lot of science and math and technology sort 77 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: of questions. And one of the first things that I 78 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: started covering when it came to human trafficking and how 79 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: I sort of fell into niche I did was there 80 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: was this one viral video going around that was talking 81 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: about how if you receive a text message that talks 82 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: about a failed delivery at HUMPED, like think of if 83 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: you get like text notifications from Amazon and you have 84 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: to like sign for a package or something and it 85 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: says like, oh, we tried to deliver it, but it didn't. 86 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: There was this thing going around online that if you 87 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: click the link they provide in that text message, it's 88 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: it's actually coming from sex traffickers and they're gonna low 89 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: jack your location and you're going to become a victim 90 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: of trafficking and they're gonna kidnap you from your home. 91 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: By clicking on that link, you are actually sending your 92 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: precise location to sex traffickers in your local area so 93 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: they can swoop in and come pick your A. S. S 94 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: S up. And I, off the bat knew that that 95 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: wasn't true, That didn't make any sense. That's logistically not 96 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: how something would work, and if you really think about it, 97 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: it just wouldn't work that way. So I ended up 98 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: making a video about that, and that video did very well, 99 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: and a lot of people just saw me in association 100 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: with sex trafficking and misinformation. And so at that point, 101 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: I think it had around a hundred thousand followers, and 102 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: so many of my followers would start tagging me in 103 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: other videos talking about sex trafficking, and they would be like, Oh, 104 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: is this a sex tra sticking thing? Is this a 105 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: sex trafficking thing? So I have this like tiny army 106 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: of people that started tagging me and off of these 107 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: different videos that just talk about sex trafficking. Some of 108 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: them were legitimate and some of them were more on 109 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: that HOAXI or misinformation side. So I've just been constantly 110 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: bombarded with my followers tagging me in these videos, and 111 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: that one thing about like Amazon packages kind of started 112 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: at all. On TikTok, you'll find mostly white women making 113 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: videos that sometimes go viral where I can up thousands 114 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: and thousands and thousands of views about how they were 115 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: nearly trafficked. If you search any hashtag related to trafficking awareness, 116 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: and it's mostly videos of women saying that someone got 117 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: too close to them while they were shopping or finding 118 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: something weird on their car. Just this morning, Jessica sent 119 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: me a TikTok of a woman who found pieces of 120 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: cheese smeared on her car and said this was a 121 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: new tactic that traffickers were using to find their victims. 122 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: Why do you think so many people on social media 123 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: and as off offline as well, Why do you think 124 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: people get so up in arms about these different things. 125 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: It's like, Oh, someone put flowers on my car or 126 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: a zip tie, like these things that people then say like, oh, 127 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: I was an attempted victim of sex trafficking because I 128 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: found honey on my car or I got this kind 129 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: of text messages. Why do you think, like, what's going 130 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: on with this phenomena? You think? I think a lot 131 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: of it has to do with the other ing and 132 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: a lack of education on what sex trafficking truly looks like. 133 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: Because even though it happens in our neighborhoods, it happens 134 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: all around us. So many people distance themselves from that 135 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: crime and the people who commit those crimes. So if 136 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: it's it's easier to say that it's dark, scary strangers 137 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: keep napping you from parking lots than it is to 138 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 1: acknowledge that it's high school coaches, it's parents, it's boyfriends, 139 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: it's people you know and people you've grown to trust 140 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: or see as good people. So we try to other 141 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: and we try to distance ourselves from the people committing 142 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: those acts that we see as such terrible crimes. So 143 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: it's it's I think it's just a lot easier to 144 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: just pin it on this dark, shadowy figure and then 145 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: just combining that with not really understanding who are the 146 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: most susceptible victims to sex trafficking is. I think it's 147 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: what really built up this phenomenon online. So you might 148 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: be thinking, so, what if people want to make videos 149 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: about trafficking, who is it hurting? Well, the answer is 150 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: that it's actually hurting survivors of sex trafficking because it 151 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: adds to the idea that the victims of trafficking are 152 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: white ladies taken by strangers, when in reality, it's a 153 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: marginalized people like black folks, queer folks, trans folks, and 154 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: people dealing with homelessness. And when organizations get involved to 155 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: try to combat trafficking, they can sometimes conflate trafficking with 156 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: consensual sex work, further criminalizing already marginalized communities. Here's Jessica 157 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: on TikTok explaining what I mean. Hello. This is just 158 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: your daily reminder that most anti trafficking organizations here in 159 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: the United States aren't actually helping trafficking victims. Most of 160 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: these organizations focus on sex trafficking, despite labor trafficking making 161 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: up by some estimates of trafficking victims. Many of these 162 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar organizations have puritanical Christian values, and the reason 163 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: that they focus on sex trafficking instead of labor trafficking 164 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: is because it is incredibly easy to disguise anti sex 165 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: work legislation as anti trafficking legislation because most people do 166 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: not know the difference. The number one victim of sex 167 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: trafficking in the United States is statistically black women, but 168 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: these organizations love to push for legislation that makes it 169 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: infinitely easier to label them as prostitutes and throw them 170 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: in jail, instead of providing resources they need to escape 171 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: their situation. Instead, push the narrative that the majority of 172 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: victims are kidnapped and held against their rules so that 173 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: they can raise millions of dollars to these rescue missions. 174 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: And the reason they don't talk about labor trafficking is 175 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: because most victims of labor trafficking are undocumented immigrants, and 176 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: that would require talking about how the US loves to 177 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: capitalize on undocumented immigrant labor without actually providing them basic 178 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,839 Speaker 1: human rights. One of your videos that I watched that's 179 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: really breaks this down well, is this idea that so 180 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: many organizations that purport to be around combating trafficking are 181 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: actually one just like very shady. And then too, they're 182 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: doing this thing where they conflate trafficking with sex work, 183 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: and then they you know, they aren't kind of going 184 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: after some of the biggest call breads of actual trafficking, 185 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: like labor, you know, labor trafficking and things like that, 186 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: and they're sort of selling this narrative of little white 187 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: kids getting snatched off the street or or white ladies 188 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: getting like taken in parking lots, and you know, is 189 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: that do you think that's sort of part of it? 190 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: That it's that it's easier to raise a panic around 191 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: the issue when it looks when when you're telling people 192 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: that it looks like this as opposed to like know 193 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: it might be like the coach in your in your 194 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: at your kids school or something. Yeah, definitely, I think 195 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: a lot of those organizations and I it's hard to 196 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: look at an organization that is objectively trying to do 197 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: something good and let's just say like, hey, you're doing 198 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: it wrong, like you hate to do that. So I 199 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: always try to be really careful when I speak of 200 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: these organizations as much as they sometimes frustrate me. But yeah, 201 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: there there are a lot of I call them just 202 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: rescue organizations where they paint this picture. They really tend 203 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: to focus on this idea that sex trafficking is. I 204 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: think the word trafficking is what does it is? The 205 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: associate eight trafficking with being carried across the border, and 206 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: that is so often not the case. Jessica studied mathematics, 207 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: which turns out is actually a pretty useful thing to 208 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: understand when you're responding to viral misinformation around sexualized violence 209 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: and trafficking. So how a studying math and statistics impacted 210 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: your work on TikTok? So I would love to say like, oh, 211 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: I use my degree all the time. Is so valuable, 212 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: like totally like the fifty dollars, I haven't dead, It's 213 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: totally worth it. But in all reality, so I have 214 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: a master's degree in mathematics and I focused on theoretical mathematics, 215 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: so statistics wasn't necessarily my thing, but I definitely had 216 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: to take multiple courses on it in college and then 217 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: for my master's thesis I had to do a lot 218 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: of statistical analysis and research. So a lot of this 219 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: is seeing people throughout stats online, Um like forty million 220 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: people are in trafficking, which is a large, horrifying number. 221 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: But when you really break down exactly where that's coming 222 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: from and you see that analysis of exactly, okay, but 223 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: out of those forty mean people, how many is this? 224 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: What is your definition? How what is your sample size? Exactly? 225 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: How are you collecting this data? It definitely helps to 226 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: have a background in mathematics and understand, okay, like what 227 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: is the importance of sample sizes and how are they 228 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: collecting this and how are they going out and doing 229 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: all of these things. It definitely helps to see what 230 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: happens when that isn't done properly, and unfortunately it's that's 231 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: not as commonly taught in schools. I wish it was 232 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: as understanding how these statistics come about and what are 233 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: the flaws and what can go wrong and how credible 234 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: is this information and where they're getting it? From so 235 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: that definitely comes in hand quite a bit. In response 236 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: to the death of Sarah Evard, a South London woman 237 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: who was found dead this year, the United Nations Entity 238 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: for Gender Equity and Empowerment of Women at leased a 239 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: report that showed that nine pc of women in the 240 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: United Kingdom from ages eighteen to twenty four have been 241 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: victims of sexual harassment in public places. That factoid sparked 242 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: a viral movement on TikTok or Women's at the percent 243 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: number to make really moving videos calling out the sexual 244 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: harassment that we face in public constantly. But a lot 245 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: of men also really latched onto that number. Some said 246 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: that since the study included things like cat calling or 247 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: staring as sexual harassment, that figure must be overblown, and 248 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: it gave a lot of them a really easy excuse 249 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: to just disengage from the conversation altogether because that one 250 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: s that had become kind of a rallying cry for 251 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: talking about sexual harassment and public on TikTok. Yeah, that 252 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: number all that kept me up for multiple days. That is, 253 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: that's a really tough one because the the data science 254 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: in me and the person with the math degree and 255 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: me wants to go hold up, that's that's a really 256 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: really big number. Um, that's that's a very large assumption 257 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: to be making. You better have a lot behind it 258 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: to prove that. But also at the same time, like 259 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: being a woman just existing in the world, it's hard 260 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: not to believe it, Like the amount of times I've 261 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: been cat called or sexually A asked like, oh yeah, no, 262 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: ninety seven percent seems about right. So your your assumption 263 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: is to just go with and be like, yeah, that's accurate. 264 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: That reflects what I've personally seen in my life. So 265 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 1: when I come in and I think that's why I'm 266 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: in a unique position to be talking about it is 267 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: because I've seen men, or at least mail presenting individuals 268 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: come online and talk about that and they are immediately 269 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: shot down. They're like, you're not allowed to be talking 270 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: about this. You are the problem. How dare you try 271 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: to tell us or try to speak over our experiences. So, 272 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: as a woman who has a little bit more technical 273 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: understanding of how these studies work, I think it's valuable 274 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: for me to come in and say, hey, I'm I'm 275 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: sure ninety seven is pretty close to what it actually is. 276 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't meant to be this all encompassing perfect study 277 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: that was going to get thrown around by the entire 278 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: world and turned into a massive movement. It was a 279 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 1: self selected study and this organization just wanted to get 280 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: a rough idea. They weren't trying to make it this 281 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: monolith of an idea, so just to criticize it, but 282 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: to still put it in the frame of yes, this 283 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: is an absolutely massive problem. But like, if we're going 284 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: to be throwing around numbers like this that have such 285 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: a large impact, we should make sure that these are 286 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: solid numbers that have the science behind it to back 287 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: it up, because otherwise you will run into an instance 288 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: where a whole ton of men are going to come 289 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: back at you and say, no, that study was BS. 290 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense. No it, I'm not gonna 291 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm not going to engage in this conversation because the 292 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: math was bad and that is their immediate go to. 293 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: So if we're going to engage in these conversations, we 294 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: need to have rock solid numbers. That's such a good 295 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: point because I can see I used to an earlier 296 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: iteration of me used to spend a lot of time 297 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: like arguing with guys and Reddit and things like that, 298 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: and so it's like as soon as soon as they're like, 299 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: oh well, I think your numbers are are not accurate, 300 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: Like it really is a way for them to just 301 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: sort of shut the conversation down. Yeah, part of the 302 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: one of the videos that I made talking about I 303 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: think I ended the video on something like bad math 304 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: is in an excuse to leave the conversation, And that 305 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: chunk of my video got stitched like to times of 306 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: women being like she gets it, And I think that 307 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: was really what helped engage in the conversation. Is, yeah, 308 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: the math was flawed. We should talk about that because 309 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: we want to make sure that we're getting accurate information. 310 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: But like, also, this is a societal phenomenon and getting 311 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: a perfect number is never going to be easy because 312 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: you can do sample sizing, but there's gonna be so 313 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: many individual experiences or different cultures and communities that behave 314 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: differently around women that it's that's not an easy number 315 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: to get. So yeah, we're probably gonna be going off 316 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: of a couple of assumptions here and there. But just 317 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: because the series flaw doesn't mean that like the amount 318 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: of women who resonated with that statistic should speak for itself. 319 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break back. It's not hard for 320 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: me to believe that almost all women have been sexually 321 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: harassed in public because I'm a woman. The reality is 322 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: that we put up with so much creepy, sexist gross 323 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: off at her everyday lives. And it isn't okay when 324 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: women's stories about being almost trafficked go viral on TikTok. 325 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: People tag Jessica in the comments like she's supposed to 326 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: rush in and call the woman out for making it 327 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: up for attention, But Jessica says, even if the women 328 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: who make these videos are probably not about to be 329 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: trafficked from a target, they are probably very genuinely in 330 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: situations that feel creepy or unsafe, because the experiences of 331 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: being a woman in public often feel creepy and unsafe. 332 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: That dude who gets way too close to you while 333 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: you're shopping might not be a trafficker, but that doesn't 334 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: mean women are wrong for feeling skeewed out when that 335 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing happens, And Jessica is not interested in 336 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: invalidating women's experiences. More often than not, the videos were 337 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: and I hate to say calling them out, but offering 338 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: criticism or offering insight. The time in videos I'm getting tagged, 339 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: and it is a woman sharing an experience that she 340 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: believes she was almost trafficked. And whether or not I 341 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: even respond to those videos, I'm tagged in them hundreds 342 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: of times. Whenever one when where a video goes viral, 343 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm I have to turn off TikTok for a little 344 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: while because my notifications get so bad. I can't focus 345 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: on my engagement with comments I get because people tagging 346 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: me in that video was so overwhelming. And more often 347 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: than not, it's a young woman and I hate to generalize, 348 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 1: but this is usually what it is. Is it's a 349 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: young white woman who was experiencing something in a grocery store, 350 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: maybe Target, maybe home deepot, some sort of store where 351 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: they walked out to their car and something suspicious was 352 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: on their car. And objectively, it is weird when you 353 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: walk out of your car and there's like a zip 354 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: tie on your handle, or there's like a weird pamphlet 355 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: under your windshield like that. That's kind of odd. But 356 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: they sometimes they jump to the conclusion, and sometimes the 357 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: comments suction jumps to the conclusion that they were near 358 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: miss for a sex trafficking incident, and that they were 359 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: almost kidnapped, and that they were almost to be never 360 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: seen again. And those are so difficult to talk about 361 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: because it's so hard to come into that offering any 362 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: sort of spotlight onto what sex trafficking actually looks like 363 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: without coming off like you're invalidating their experience. So often 364 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: the criticism I receive is, how dare you invalidate their experience? 365 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: How dare you tell them what they should be feeling? 366 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: How dare you tell them that they shouldn't be afraid? 367 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: And I never want to tell somebody you shouldn't be 368 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: afraid in that instance. It's more so let's talk about 369 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: what the fear like. What let's rationalize the fear here. 370 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: Kidnappings they're incredibly rare, but they do happen, Sexual assaults, 371 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: just random violence on the streets. Those things do happen, 372 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: and we've seen that, especially with what happened to the 373 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,479 Speaker 1: UK recently. But sex trafficking is an incredibly specific crime 374 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: with incredibly, it has an incredibly specific definition that people 375 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: have really run wild with. It is the new stranger 376 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: danger to me, what is it like for you to 377 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: have to walk that incredibly I guess specific line of 378 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: wanting to give actual, fact based content out there, but 379 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: also not wanting to sound like you're invalidating someone experience 380 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: or not making it. I guess. I feel like when 381 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about women on the internet, it is so 382 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: easy to be like, Oh, these two women are going 383 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: at it. This woman says she was almost traffic. This 384 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: other woman says that she's a liar. They're having a 385 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: cat fight. I feel like this when women have discourse online, 386 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: it is so easy for that discourse to be distorted 387 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: into some kind of a cat fight. And I feel 388 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: that you probably have to walk a real specific line. 389 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 1: What's that like for you? Um, it is difficult, to 390 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: say the least. And I've definitely screwed Like to say 391 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: I got it perfect the first time is an absolute lie. 392 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: I've definitely screwed it up before. I've walked into those 393 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: conversations with an attitude that was not appropriate. And it 394 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: took me a long time to learn that. And I 395 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: deleted Benny videos and apologized to many individuals and said, hey, 396 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. My tone was inappropriate. How I came 397 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: across was inappropriate. I did not mean to present myself 398 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: in the way that I did. And intent over impact 399 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: is such an important phrase when you're talking about content online, 400 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: particularly because TikTok is such a per evasive beast. A 401 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: woman can describe an instance that happened to her and 402 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: people can jump to the conclusion of sex trafficking and 403 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: you can put that a sixty second video so easily, 404 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: and it goes viral so quickly. That is that is catinet. 405 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: People love it. But when somebody comes in and says, 406 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: let's have this extremely nuanced, complicated conversation about what sex 407 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: trafficking actually looks like and why this misinformation is actually 408 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: really harmful, and why we're still allowed to be afraid, 409 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: but we need to contextualize that fear in a really 410 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: important way that is really hard to fit into sixty seconds. Um. 411 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: So the reason I've asked people to stop tagging me 412 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: and people still do. It's not the end of the world, 413 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: but so many times I'll experience the situation where my 414 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: followers will tag me in a video and you can 415 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: tag somebody in a video and then leave a comment 416 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: on that same tag, and they'll be like, hey, at 417 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: blood Beth and beyond, this is complete bullshit, right, or 418 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: this is she's lying, right, and those are such terrible 419 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: things to say, And to an extent, a creator can 420 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: only control how their audience interacts with their content so 421 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: much I can. I can't stop people from doing that, 422 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: but I can still outwardly put my face on it 423 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: and say that's not an appropriate way to engage in 424 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,239 Speaker 1: this conversation. Is it going to stop people from doing it? 425 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: Not at all, But it's at least going to try 426 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: to help and at least somebody out there will see 427 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: the importance of having this conversation in a very delicate, 428 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: nuanced way. There's there's just so many women who make 429 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: these videos genuinely scared, and I understand that they are 430 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: genuinely fearful. And I know where that fear is coming 431 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: come from, because I am also a woman in America 432 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: who goes to Target and finds weird things and parking lots. 433 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: But because I also do so much debunking, even just 434 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: putting my name in the commets and tagging at blood 435 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: bath and beyond, so many women see that as you 436 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: don't believe me, and that's become so incredibly difficult to 437 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: try to walk And I still think about it now, 438 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: How can I adjust my content in a way that 439 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: people don't see me as like the ha ha you wrong. No, 440 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: you you're not allowed to say those things. It's inappropriate, 441 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: or you're you're lying, you're making stuff up, you're looking 442 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: for attention. I never want that air around my content 443 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: and around my presence on the Internet. But I'm still 444 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: trying to figure out that nice little balance, and I'm 445 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: getting better at it, but it's still it's difficult. Yeah, 446 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: I really appreciate the honest response that you just gave 447 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: because I feel, you know, especially online, it can be 448 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: so hard to be like, yeah, I get it wrong sometimes. Yeah, 449 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: I've a lot of my work involves like thinking through 450 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: my own behavior and apologizing for it. We're appropriate, like 451 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: I think admitting that is it is like rare online, 452 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: I guess, and admitting that it's kind of a journey 453 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: that you that you are trying to sort out how 454 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: you become an like how you model ethical and responsible 455 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: content and making sure that you're not like invalidating the 456 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: experiences of other women. I just really appreciate that that 457 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: you're bringing that nuance to the conversation, because, especially on 458 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: these platforms where you only get sixty seconds, that nuance 459 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: is so so able to get lost, and I think people, 460 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people online are looking for a fight. 461 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: They're looking for that conflict. They're looking for like they 462 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: want to see two people in conflict and not two 463 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: people in in dialogue or in discussion or in community. 464 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: When people tag you in videos and kind of give 465 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: the perception of like, oh, you're you're shutting this person 466 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: down or you're calling them out, and the blah blah blah. 467 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: Something that I think kind of gets lost in this 468 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: is when we talk about bad actors. How local reporting 469 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: and police narratives were like I read these articles you're 470 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: shitty hometown local news website, you know, and it'll be like, oh, 471 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: someone found zip ties on their car at the parking lot. 472 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: This police officer corroborates that it happened, and they do 473 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: the whole story, and one might read the story and say, oh, 474 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: well this is clearly this is correct, you know. They 475 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: they they quote a police officer who confirms it happened. 476 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: And then when you actually think about it, like was 477 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: this this article said nothing? It didn't. It didn't. There 478 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: was no evidence of anything you know, untoward happened, And 479 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: I guess it's so easy to point the finger at women, 480 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: many of whom are probably you know, going through the 481 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: experience of being a woman in America, which can be 482 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: very scary, who maybe are genuinely worried for their life 483 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: or their safety, and then we don't focus on like 484 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: the reporter who decided this was newsworthy, or the police 485 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: officer who didn't clearly say there was no evidence this 486 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: person thought they were being sex trafficked, but like, you know, 487 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: here's what really happened or whatever. I guess. I wonder 488 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: it feels like it's easier to point the finger at 489 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: women as the bad actors and not sort of larger 490 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: institutional bad actors like reporters who write floppy rush stories 491 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: or like policet you know, law enforcement who don't tell 492 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: the whole story. Absolutely, that is one of the most 493 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: difficult things I have to deal with as far as 494 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: when I do get pushed back online, I received so 495 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: many like an instance, will be all make a video 496 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: talking about how this zip tai phenomenon of finding a 497 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: zip tie on your on the handle of your car 498 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: is not indicative of being marked for sex trafficking. And 499 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: my entire comments section, hundreds of comments and people saying, 500 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: know what happened to my small town? The police said 501 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: it was a thing. It happened to me. The police 502 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: confirmed it as a thing. And police confirming that it 503 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: is an act of sex trafficking is not the same 504 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: as them releasing something saying we're investigating it. And that 505 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: is so critical. And I really wish that the journalistic 506 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: standard with those smaller towns that reported that kind of 507 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: stuff was just a ant bit higher because it could 508 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: alleviate so much confusion, because if there's like there was, 509 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: there was one online I had seen where it was 510 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: an individual it was. This was a viral TikTok, and 511 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: it drove me absolutely insane. It was a woman who 512 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: was in the car in her car, I think it 513 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: was a Walmart, and she was looking around at the 514 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: cars nearby her and she saw one car had a 515 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: like a string tied to its handle and she was like, Oh, 516 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: the sex traffickers. It's them. I know it's them, And 517 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: it would absolutely viral, overnight explosion, millions of views, and 518 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: the woman who actually drove that car recognized it and 519 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: responded in a video saying, that's my car. Here's proof, 520 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: this is my car. Um that was just the string 521 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: from a birthday balloon I had tied to my car. 522 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: I completely forgot about and it's been there for weeks. 523 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: But that didn't go nearly as viral, and the police 524 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: in the area ended up putting out a piece talking 525 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: about how like, oh, we're investigating this, we're going to 526 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: look into it. But people see that as validation of 527 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: oh the police confirmed it, Like, no, they're just acknowledging 528 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: that this occurred online. That is very different because when 529 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: we start seeing all these things online, people are going 530 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: to be looking for these signs and they're immediately going 531 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: to start calling the police. So police get inundated with 532 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: this misinformation constantly. But the press releases they put out saying, 533 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: we're getting so many reports of this and we can't 534 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: find any evidence that it's actual sex trafficking. Isn't nearly 535 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: as fun to share online, oh, man, think so much 536 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: of it comes down to what's fun or what's wild, 537 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: or what's exciting to share online. You know, recently, I 538 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: was in the car and I flipped some kind of 539 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory radio station just for a second, and in 540 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: the thirty seconds that I was listening, they were talking 541 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: about how Bill Gates is gonna micro ship us all 542 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: with the COVID nineteen vaccine and how he's going to 543 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: force us all to eat cockroaches. And I thought, Wow, 544 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: anybody that's really pushing accurate or reasonable or measured information, 545 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: how can we compete with that? You know, that is 546 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: compelling content? And I do think that so much of 547 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: what it comes down to when it comes to sharing 548 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories or misinformation comes down to what is fun 549 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: to share online or you know, what is exciting or 550 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: wild to believe. Absolutely, I think I shouldn't say my 551 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: favorite example, but the example that's ringing all the alarm 552 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: bells in my head is way Fair so um for 553 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: those who don't know. Back in June of it was 554 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: last year. June last year, Uh, there was a conspiracy 555 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 1: theory going around that there were all these high ticket, 556 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: high priced items on Wayfair with absolutely outrageou unreasonable prices, 557 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 1: like this industrial shelving unit was going for online. And 558 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: somebody had noticed that the names they gave of these 559 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: products kind of like how when you go into Ikea 560 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: they all have unique names. Some of the names matched 561 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: that of women who, at some point in the last 562 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: decade or so had gone missing, and they were like, oh, 563 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: obviously this means that Wayfair is selling these women online, 564 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: because that's a completely reasonable conclusion to jump to. What 565 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: else could it be? What else could it be? Exactly more, 566 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it, 567 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: we had to actually put out a statement saying they 568 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: were not involved in human trafficking. There is, of course 569 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: no truth to these claims. The products sold in question 570 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: are industrial grade cabinets that are accurately they told USA today, 571 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: And the whole incident had really obvious ties to the 572 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: Q and non conspiracy theory. And so actually Michael Hobbs 573 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: from You're Wrong About did an amazing piece talking about 574 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 1: breaking all of that down. But that's not nearly as 575 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: exciting because everybody wants this. There was a grand conspiracy, 576 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: and it was this evil personnel along it. It was 577 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: George Soros, it was Amazon, it was all these bad actors. 578 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: They just there. There are reasons to not like certain 579 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: large corporations. We don't need to come up with these 580 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: outrageous conspiracies not to like Wayfair. A lot of people 581 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: don't like Wayfair because they provided furniture for the holding 582 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: cells at the border for children that's a reason to 583 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: not like them. We don't have to tell everybody that 584 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: they're secretly trafficking children. The reasons to not like them 585 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: are right there. So how can people be better involved 586 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: in conversations around trafficking? All the time, I'm getting comments 587 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: from people asking, Okay, you've taught me what it isn't 588 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: now what can I do to help trafficking victims? I 589 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: would like to write the wrong idea of spreading us 590 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: information misinformation? What can I do to help the victims? 591 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: And the number one thing I think that everyday people 592 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: can do is just when conversations of sex trafficking come up, 593 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: research look into it. A lot of these larger organizations 594 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: like the Playist Project is one of my favorite, because 595 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: they have such an intense and thorough myths and facts 596 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: page breaking down exactly the popular ones you see online 597 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: like are they doing this? No? Are they doing this? Well? Yes, 598 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: that is a thing. They give so much nuance to it. 599 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: Even a simple Google search or just knowing some more 600 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: reliable organizations that provide better information on this and running 601 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: it by them first before you're sharing it, because what 602 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know is that so much 603 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: of this is fueled by this idea of I don't 604 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: know if it's true, but I'm going to share it 605 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: just in case. That sentence keeps me up at night. 606 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: It is so frustrating because so many people just see 607 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: it as I don't want to take or I don't 608 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: want to or I don't know how to engage in 609 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: checking if this is accurate. I'm just going to share 610 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: it just in case. And that's why TikTok is so frush, 611 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: because the barrier for entry of sharing this information is 612 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: so low. It takes two seconds to comment, it takes 613 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: two seconds to duet a video, which is another way 614 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: of sharing it onto your own platform. And it is 615 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: so frustrating because when we share this information online, we're 616 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: drowning out actually reliable, good information talking about the signs 617 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: of sex trafficking. And even aside from that, like we 618 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: can have an incredibly nuanced conversation talking about how statistically 619 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: the most likely victims of trafficking are black women, homeless individuals, 620 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: LGBT youth, kids in the foster system, people who are 621 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: down on their luck or don't have a steady, reliable 622 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: network of resources around them to help them if they need, 623 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: if they need assistance. But when we when we start 624 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: drowning out that conversation, we are we're not only are 625 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: we not letting that get the spotlight where it really 626 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: needs to be the forefront of this conversation, we are 627 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: also hurting the actual victims directly themselves because we're creating 628 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: this idea and this culture around what trafficking looks like 629 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: and what the average victim looks like. So when a 630 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: victim comes forward and says, I think I was sex 631 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: trafficked or I need help, people are less inclined to 632 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: believe them because we've created this narrative that most trafficking 633 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: victims are innocent, upper middle class white women getting kidnapped 634 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: from target and it was against their will. Which is 635 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: one of the biggest things is people have this idea 636 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: that the majority of trafficking victims it started some sort 637 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: of violent, aggressive crime like being kidnapped, when in reality, 638 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: most victims of trafficking were groomed into it and they 639 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: did it to a degree willingly to start, or they 640 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: were coerced into it by somebody they know and trust. 641 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: And when we're not educating people on that, they're less 642 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: likely to look out for those in their community that 643 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: are likely to fall victim to that sort of activity, 644 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: and we're we're actively harming the victims that we're we 645 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: think we're helping when we share that information. Yeah, I 646 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: think that's so true. And I also think kind of 647 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,239 Speaker 1: going back to that nuance, I think the idea that 648 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: someone could be I mean, I don't want to say willingly, 649 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: but like willingly, with like heavy scare quoth willingly I 650 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: got evolved in sex trafficking. I think there's something about 651 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: that that makes it hard for people to stay along 652 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: for the conversation because we've created this idea that like, oh, 653 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: sex trafficking victims were women, were white women who were 654 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: snatched from target against their will. And it's so much 655 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: more difficult to have that conversation of like, well, if 656 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: you were down on your luck and already marginalized or 657 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: disadvantage in some way, and somebody that you trust came 658 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: along and kind of groomed you into it, so you 659 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: went along with that heavy scare quotes exactly willingly, like 660 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: like that is such a more complex conversation to have. 661 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: And if you've been if you've been primed to think 662 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: of sex trafficing can only be the white woman snatched 663 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: from a target. I'm not interested in having the conversation 664 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: about how it actually goes down more often in reality. Exactly, 665 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: it's it's so rarely affluent women getting snatched, and it's 666 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: when that's the people who take the spotlight in these conversations. 667 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: We're not going to pay attention to the queer, trans 668 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: black kid who got kicked out of their house because 669 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: their parents didn't agree with that situation, and now they're 670 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: desperate for money and they're willing to perform sex work, 671 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: and now that they're in that and they're becoming adjusted 672 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: to it's somebody's taking advantage of them and grooming them 673 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: into a situation where they cannot escape and it becomes 674 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: a forced situation. And it's so incredibly frustrating that time 675 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: and time again, white women are taking the spotlight away 676 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: from marginalized communities. Which is why personally, I feel so 677 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: it feels so important as a white woman to talk 678 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: about this because I often feel like when white women 679 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: have and this is generalizing a lot, but when white 680 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: women have built this idea in their head of what 681 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: their reality looks like, a marginalized individual coming in and saying, hey, 682 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: you're actually really taking the spotlight, or you're really you're 683 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: really consuming this conversation and holding it away from people 684 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 1: that are more likely to be involved in what you're 685 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: so afraid of. When that's coming from marginalized voices, I 686 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: feel like white women are less inclined listen, which is 687 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: unfortunate and terrible. But if I can start to help 688 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: bridge that gap at all and be like, hey, fellow 689 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: white women here, I used to think like you, and 690 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 1: it's actually really toxic. Let's talk about it. If I 691 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: can help bridge that gap, I wish we lived in 692 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: a world where marginalized people were supported. When we spoke 693 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: up about somebody in a position of trust abusing their power, 694 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: that person is so much more likely to be a 695 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: trafficking perpetrator than a stranger and a target parking lot 696 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: in broad daylight. And when women speak up about dudes 697 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 1: being creepy in public, we should believe them. It shouldn't 698 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: have to be described as a mere trafficking attempt for 699 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: women to be heard and supported. If you've enjoyed this podcast, 700 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: please help us grow by subscribing. Got a story about 701 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi. 702 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you at Hello at tangoi 703 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: dot com. Disinformed is brought to you by There Are 704 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. It's a production of iHeart 705 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: Radio and Unbust Creative Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. 706 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: Tory Harrison is our supervising producer, and engineer. Michael Lamotto 707 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host Bridget Tod. For 708 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: more great podcasts, check out the I Heart Radio app, 709 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.