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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. So this week

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about something a little different and a little

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Speaker 1: heavier than what we typically cover on the show. We're

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Speaker 1: going to discuss the use of dogs in cases of

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Speaker 1: police brutality, the history of how dogs have been used

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Speaker 1: as weapons, and the harm this does to people as

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Speaker 1: well as to the dogs themselves. I'll give you a

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Speaker 1: heads up when we're about to describe violence and abuse.

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Speaker 1: As a lover of dogs and someone who thinks people

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Speaker 1: should never be brutalized by law enforcement, this subject is

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Speaker 1: really gutting for me. So I thought at the end

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Speaker 1: we could talk about some incredibly wonderful and heartwarming stories

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Speaker 1: of how dogs can have jobs that are both positive

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Speaker 1: for the world and are things that dogs love to do. Spoilers,

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about big fluffy dogs and cute,

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Speaker 1: tiny pink ones and how they form an adorable team.

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Speaker 1: And I have a couple of wonderful gifts, including our

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Speaker 1: producer Joel Monique. Joining me today is comedian biomedical engineer

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Speaker 1: developing ventilators right now, actor activists, and honestly, if I

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Speaker 1: list all your accomplishments. I'm going to run out of air.

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Speaker 1: Polovic gonalins, how's it good? Good? How are you? Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much? So so nice. Of course, of course

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Speaker 1: we are going to talk about something that's maybe like

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Speaker 1: a little heavier than we normally talk about on the show.

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Speaker 1: But I think it is so important. You actually suggested

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Speaker 1: this topic to me, and it is something that I've

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Speaker 1: also been interested in a while as a dog lover

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Speaker 1: and as someone who cares about human rights. I guess

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Speaker 1: just the use of police dogs, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: police dogs are often seen as cute and noble and heroic,

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Speaker 1: like you see them in the news all the time

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Speaker 1: of like, oh look it's this this officer dog and

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Speaker 1: he's so cute and it's from rentintin to pop patrol.

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Speaker 1: Dogs that are involved in like law enforcement have had

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Speaker 1: very positive portrayals in media, and it's really easy to understand,

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Speaker 1: like why this is the case, Like dogs are innocent,

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Speaker 1: they're loving, their loyal It feels really safe to love

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Speaker 1: a dog. And when you hear stuff like a dog

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Speaker 1: helped apprehend a suspect, it sounds innocuous on the surface.

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Speaker 1: It's presented in a way that's meant to be like

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Speaker 1: endearing or inspiring, but the reality is unfortunately very grim.

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Speaker 1: When dogs are used as weapons by law enforcement. Police

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Speaker 1: can commit acts of horrific violence against civilians using the

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Speaker 1: dog as a proxy. And we're gonna talk about some

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Speaker 1: pretty like pretty gruesome reality behind dogs being used in

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. And I I kind of also want to

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Speaker 1: like say, like, I come from this place of really

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Speaker 1: deeply loving dogs. I have a dog. They're one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite animals in terms of their history with humans.

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Speaker 1: How we co evolved with this is like a really

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Speaker 1: devastating topic because it breaks my heart to see dogs

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Speaker 1: being intentionally trained to harm people, and you know, in

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Speaker 1: a way like dogs are also victims of this practice,

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Speaker 1: although I think the human victims are more important to recognize.

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Speaker 1: But it's just, yeah, it's it's gut wrenching in every

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Speaker 1: sense of what's going on. It's upsetting. I also love dogs,

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Speaker 1: I like viscerally feel connected to them. I had a

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Speaker 1: dog until recently. I grew up with a dog, but

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Speaker 1: I've always felt that the behavior of the dog is

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Speaker 1: reflected of any dog is reflected through the behavior of

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Speaker 1: the owner or a result of the behavior of the

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Speaker 1: owner and you know cops, so I kind of have

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Speaker 1: I've never like blamed the dogs, but I also definitely

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Speaker 1: see how they've been taken advantage of and used as

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Speaker 1: a tool in such horrific ways. I mean, there's there's

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Speaker 1: two extreme ways to view dogs. Is like completely autonomous

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Speaker 1: they do everything because they want to do it, or

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Speaker 1: totally blank slate tools little robots that we can program exactly,

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Speaker 1: and of course neither are true. Like their animals with

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Speaker 1: a brain, they have their own personalities, they have their

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Speaker 1: own stuff, internal stuff going on. But when we train them,

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Speaker 1: we either tap into their best nature or the part

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Speaker 1: of their nature that is very stressful for the dog

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Speaker 1: and can result in aggression. So yeah, So first, I

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Speaker 1: think it's important to talk about the history of police

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Speaker 1: dogs because it is actually really interesting, it's really upsetting,

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Speaker 1: and I think like our concept of police dogs is

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Speaker 1: kind of like they popped out of nowhere in the

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Speaker 1: eighties with like McGruff the crime dog and but it's

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Speaker 1: Turner and so K nine units. Police dogs are used

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Speaker 1: by police is There a few functions that they're used for.

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Speaker 1: They're used for searching crime scene evidence, missing people, sniffing

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Speaker 1: for explosive sniffing for drugs and attacking targets at the

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Speaker 1: command of police. For this episode, we're gonna mostly focused

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Speaker 1: on that last one because it is the most harmful

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Speaker 1: use of the dog. I know. There's also like a

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Speaker 1: lot of controversy about drug sniffing dogs in terms of

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Speaker 1: like how they will signal because they want basically, when

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Speaker 1: dogs are trained that when you signal and you get

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Speaker 1: rewarded for it, they want to signal, so they kind

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Speaker 1: of look for their owner's body language. They want to

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Speaker 1: please their owners, so they're not you know, like what

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Speaker 1: is it broken door, broken window policing, but by dogs

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Speaker 1: like they're looking they're looking for rewards, their quotas exactly.

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Speaker 1: They're looking for their treats, quotas. But you know, they're

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Speaker 1: they're innocent. They don't understand the harm that they're causing

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Speaker 1: by falsely indicating that someone has drugs and you know,

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Speaker 1: justifying police force against that person was your jewel here.

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Speaker 1: You don't think dogs know about the legal ramification. I

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Speaker 1: just feel like, I just feel like, I feel like

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Speaker 1: if dogs are going to be cops, we have to

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Speaker 1: have dog judges as well, and it would be it

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Speaker 1: would be a faster turnover. You know, their lives aren't

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Speaker 1: as long they would It would be you young pups

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Speaker 1: in there. It would be more progressive. You'd have a

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Speaker 1: lawyer dogs working pro bono. I wish it was this cute.

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Speaker 1: I wish it was this cute exactly. I mean that's

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Speaker 1: the thing, right, Like, so you see a police dog,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, but not all it turns out, so

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Speaker 1: the breeds of dogs used by police are typically German shepherds,

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Speaker 1: Malonois and Dutch shepherd's bloodhounds and retrievers. So like when

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Speaker 1: we think of police dogs, we think of basically only

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Speaker 1: German shepherds, but that's not necessarily true. They're definitely like

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Speaker 1: very overrepresented as police dogs, but like there's also these

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Speaker 1: other breeds that are used. It just occurred to me,

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Speaker 1: it's like so funny that German shepherds have this bad

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Speaker 1: rap because their cops. And then like Dalmatians are the

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Speaker 1: firefighter dogs and everybody loves them and like they were

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Speaker 1: the stars of Hunter one. Dalmatians. Like it's like so

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Speaker 1: reflective in terms of police dogs. They have pretty unsettling history.

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Speaker 1: To put it mildly, they have been used to quote

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Speaker 1: hunt down outlaws or basically whoever crossed the wealth holding

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Speaker 1: class since at least the Middle Ages. So in the

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Speaker 1: Middle Ages when there like you're an outlaw, maybe you're

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Speaker 1: just someone who's not a noble, who you know, is

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Speaker 1: growing crops that they don't want you to grow, or

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Speaker 1: looked at them funny, you know. So it's just like

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Speaker 1: they they've yeah, been used by the ruling class since

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Speaker 1: at least the Middle Ages. I'm sure before then as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: The first organized police dog training program was developed in

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Speaker 1: Belgium in eighteen nine, which was adopted by Austria, Hungary

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Speaker 1: and Germany. In n German shepherd's bread in Germany had

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Speaker 1: become extremely popular working dogs and became favored by police

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Speaker 1: and oops. Hitler was also a fan of the breed.

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Speaker 1: He used German shepherds in Nazi Germany as violent weapons

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Speaker 1: to enforce Nazism and to terrorize and maime victims of

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Speaker 1: the Holocaust. It's yeah, you know, I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: go into detail. It's pretty painful to go into but

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Speaker 1: you can. Yeah, it's it's very horrifying to look at

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Speaker 1: the accounts of people who were terrorized by these dogs. Again,

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Speaker 1: you know, this doesn't mean that German shepherds are Nazis.

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Speaker 1: They don't, they don't. Dogs don't have that kind of concept.

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Speaker 1: But they were trained and taught to hurt people and

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Speaker 1: used by Nazis to enforce their horrific ideology. And it

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Speaker 1: shows how you know, this, this animal that can be

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Speaker 1: such a wonderful, loving companion, can be shaped by someone

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Speaker 1: who is evil to do what they want because the

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Speaker 1: dog doesn't you know, the dog is responding to the training,

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Speaker 1: and the dog itself can often be abused in this

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Speaker 1: training and it makes them extremely anxious and fearful and aggressive.

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Speaker 1: So German shepherds came to America in nineteen oh seven,

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Speaker 1: so this was they did come here before World War Two.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eleven, the NYPD started using the same training

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Speaker 1: program developed in Belgium. They were trained to see anyone

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Speaker 1: not in uniform as hostile. Is that what it was? Oh,

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Speaker 1: people in plain clothes were instructed to walk by their

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Speaker 1: cages and tease them, encouraging them to be aggressive towards

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Speaker 1: anyone not wearing a uniform, which I mean, that's monstrous.

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Speaker 1: That that's how they train cops to just teasing them

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Speaker 1: until they're angry. Yeah, but it's like ramping up the

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Speaker 1: dog's anxieties so they'll be more aggressive towards people. It's

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Speaker 1: that's got to be like a constant. Their body has

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Speaker 1: to be like in shock all the time. It's unhealthy

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Speaker 1: not to mention um. Like if you have like just

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Speaker 1: a domesticated animal, like they're terrified of like fireworks and

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Speaker 1: like stimulation like that. You know, it's got to be

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Speaker 1: incredibly disorienting for dogs. Yeah, my dog Cookie can Like

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Speaker 1: you get a text from someone and the phone goes off,

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Speaker 1: and she's shaking. She hates like she she does not.

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Speaker 1: That's just because she wants your attention for herself. She

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Speaker 1: knows that you're talking to somebody else and she's like,

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Speaker 1: show me your phone. Who is it? Who's on your phone?

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Speaker 1: I should have named her Fomo, because that is her

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Speaker 1: define trade. She cannot, like if she's in another room

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Speaker 1: and everyone else moves to another room, she has to

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Speaker 1: be there immediately. She can't, like you go to the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: she sits outside the bathroom. It's like, na I cannot

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Speaker 1: a huge fear of missing out. So she's been trained

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Speaker 1: to follow you around your own home. That's kind of crazy,

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Speaker 1: that's right, that's right, she's been trained to follow me

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Speaker 1: into the bathroom. What kind of weirdo am? I? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: these are extremely stressful situations, and as we'll talk about again,

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Speaker 1: ramping up the dog stress has been historically used and

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Speaker 1: is currently used in training the dogs to be aggressive.

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Speaker 1: So in the nineteen fifties, US police again attempted to

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Speaker 1: establish canine units. An ex marine trained police dogs in

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Speaker 1: Michigan purportedly able to be quote vicious or gentle on command.

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Speaker 1: You said, this was the sixties. This is the fifties,

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Speaker 1: got it? Oh but yeah, the sixties. Yeah, we're getting there.

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Speaker 1: But when these dogs were handed off to other departments,

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Speaker 1: they and obey their new handlers because guess what, Dogs

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Speaker 1: aren't robots. If they develop a relationship with a handler,

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Speaker 1: they think you're their friend, they don't. You can't. You

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Speaker 1: can't just program a dog and then pass it off

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Speaker 1: as a robot. There sentient beings. This is also true

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Speaker 1: for men. Please keep this in mind. You can't just

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Speaker 1: pass me off. Okay. In nineteen fifty nine, the Baltimore

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Speaker 1: City Police established the canine Unit that became the precursor

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Speaker 1: two dogs being used by police all over the country.

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Speaker 1: These dogs were trained to violently tackle in takedown targets. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so this is the point that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: start talking about in more detail, the gruesome history of

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Speaker 1: dogs being used for violence in the US. It gets

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Speaker 1: pretty upsetting. So if you're listening with children, or if

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Speaker 1: you're sensitive hearing about violence, especially violence against minorities. By least,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know a lot of people have fatigue

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Speaker 1: about that right now, and so I mean, I encourage

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Speaker 1: if this is a new topic to you, I really

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Speaker 1: encourage you get through this because it's so important. But

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Speaker 1: you know, if you if you need to skip ahead,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to insert in a timestamp to skip ahead

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Speaker 1: where we're going to talk about something that's at the

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Speaker 1: very end. We're going to talk about positive jobs that

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Speaker 1: dogs can do. So suck it up and listen to

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Speaker 1: the truth. You you weak people, You're just you're telling children,

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Speaker 1: suck it up. Well, I gotta learn someday that the

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Speaker 1: systems work. Okay, I will say, give it a chance,

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Speaker 1: give it a chance, and if it becomes overwhelming, you

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Speaker 1: know it, feel free to pause. I know, at the

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Speaker 1: very least on Spotify, it will pick you right back

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Speaker 1: up when you come back a week later. A couple

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Speaker 1: of days later, but it is it is vital information.

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Speaker 1: It's very important. Like if you if you already know

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Speaker 1: this stuff, and this is just like gratuitous and stuff,

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Speaker 1: I totally understand if you don't, just just try to

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Speaker 1: it through it. And again at the end we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about some really uplifting stuff, So if you

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Speaker 1: need to skip ahead, go to about the fifty eight

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Speaker 1: minute mark. Soon after the proliferation of the police dog

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Speaker 1: program in nineteen fifty nine, they were used by police

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Speaker 1: to violently attack minorities, especially those participating in civil rights movements,

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Speaker 1: especially black young people. But that certainly wasn't when dogs

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Speaker 1: were first used to terrorize black people in America, so

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Speaker 1: they were used throughout our horrific history of slavery. There

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Speaker 1: was the Cuban bloodhound that was used to catch people

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Speaker 1: trying to escape slavery. The dogs would mall people violently

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Speaker 1: because the dogs were abused by the slave owners. So

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Speaker 1: Cuban bloodhound trainers forced black men to abuse the dogs

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Speaker 1: so the dogs would learn to fear and be aggressive

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Speaker 1: towards black people, which is one of the most purely

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Speaker 1: evil systems I've ever heard. Just forcing someone to abuse

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Speaker 1: the dog, so that dog can be used to abuse people.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah. After the Civil War, dogs were still used

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Speaker 1: to and abused as weapons to terrorize black people. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety four, an editorial lauted a Tennessee police forces

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Speaker 1: training of a bloodhound where they had the dog tracked

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Speaker 1: down a black man who was told to hide his trail.

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Speaker 1: And even though he was ostensibly like a quote willing

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Speaker 1: participant in this training exercise, obviously no, he probably wasn't.

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Speaker 1: When he was told to come down the tree, he

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Speaker 1: they assured him like it was fine to come down,

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Speaker 1: But as soon as he came down, the dog bolted

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Speaker 1: for him and tried to attack him. And this was

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Speaker 1: much to the racist amusement of the editorial writer and

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Speaker 1: the police. So throughout Jim Crow, dogs were used to

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Speaker 1: hunt people who escaped wrongful incarceration. There were even public

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Speaker 1: competitions where dogs were forced to compete to chase down,

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Speaker 1: you know, quote, escaped convicts, and the winning dog was

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Speaker 1: declared ready for sale for the police. So that's the

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Speaker 1: history of police dogs in the US. So I think

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Speaker 1: for us to pretend that is not part of our

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Speaker 1: culture now is I mean, this was recent, this was like,

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Speaker 1: there are people still alive that you know, we're lived

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Speaker 1: through this era. So during the civil rights era, police

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Speaker 1: dogs were routinely used to attack peaceful protesters, including children.

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Speaker 1: Police dogs were not only used against civil rights protesters,

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Speaker 1: but against people regularly. And the reason that we see

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Speaker 1: these images of the protests is that journal didn't go

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Speaker 1: to these neighborhoods and document police violence regularly. They documented

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Speaker 1: it when there was a protest, so we got to

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Speaker 1: see it when there was a protest. But this was

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Speaker 1: happening all the time, despite the fact that police dogs

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Speaker 1: often maimed people. Martin Luther King encouraged protesters not to

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Speaker 1: fight back, citing the fact that white people were often

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Speaker 1: more sympathetic to animals than they were too black people,

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Speaker 1: and that the images of people defending themselves against police

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Speaker 1: dogs would create less sympathy for the protests, which I

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Speaker 1: think is really important because I think it's kind of

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Speaker 1: relevant now, Like remember when that guy who was just

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Speaker 1: like birding, he was going out birding in Central Park

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Speaker 1: and then there was that woman, Yeah, that a white

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Speaker 1: woman who called the police on a black man just

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Speaker 1: because he was in the park bird watching and asked

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Speaker 1: her to leash her dog. Yes, because dogs chase sing

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Speaker 1: off birds isn't good both for birding but also just

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Speaker 1: for the bird populations. It's very disruptive, so it's not

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Speaker 1: good for the environment. So like, he very reasonably asked

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Speaker 1: her to leash her dog, which she's supposed to do,

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Speaker 1: and she threw a fit in like through throughout it,

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Speaker 1: she was like holding her dog up by its collar,

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Speaker 1: and like the dog was clearly very uncomfortable. But like

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Speaker 1: so many people just commented on like the fact she

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Speaker 1: was being mean to the dog, which, yeah, that's terrible,

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Speaker 1: but kind of not the main the main issue there.

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Speaker 1: The main issue to me was just how I think

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Speaker 1: it was very a very clear portrayal of a white

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Speaker 1: woman showing that she knew how the system works and

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Speaker 1: that she knew that when she called, she kept reiterating

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Speaker 1: that she was going to tell the cops that it

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Speaker 1: was an African American man, and the way she said

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Speaker 1: it was so disgusting because she knew that it meant

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Speaker 1: violence against him, um, and she knew that it meant

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Speaker 1: he could die. Like you could hear it her tone,

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Speaker 1: you could hear it in the way that she was

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Speaker 1: using the system to threaten the life of this man,

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Speaker 1: and meanwhile she was like wrangling this dog and so

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Speaker 1: it clearly wasn't out of care for her animal. It

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Speaker 1: was out of vindictiveness towards this black, innocent man who

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Speaker 1: was asking her something reasonable. The crazy thing was like

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Speaker 1: they took the dog, like I think she her job

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Speaker 1: was threatened or something. I'm not sure of everything that happened,

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Speaker 1: but they definitely took her dog and then gave it back,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy. Like when we talk about canceling people

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Speaker 1: or going after people. This was the week of George

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Speaker 1: Floyd's murder and like it could have I think the

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Speaker 1: stark contrast between how those situations ended was something that

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Speaker 1: really affected people. Because Christian Cooper, who isn't related to

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Speaker 1: Amy Cooper, who was a birdwatcher, he didn't die, and

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Speaker 1: it was it was so close to happening, um, and

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Speaker 1: she like she was rewarded with her dog back. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was just it's just crazy to me that she's

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Speaker 1: she's on camera abusing the dog and also just the

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Speaker 1: goal of her to be you know, abusive towards her

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Speaker 1: dog and then on the call with the police doing

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Speaker 1: her fake tears her you know, like saying that he's

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Speaker 1: attacking her and her dog using this idea of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm you know, come and hurt this person

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Speaker 1: or kill this person because he's making me and my

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Speaker 1: dog feel unsafe. She's practicing unsafe dog loss. It was

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Speaker 1: really upsetting to me because like the only thing he

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Speaker 1: was at the reason they had any kind of interaction

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Speaker 1: all is he was like, Yo, your dog is not

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Speaker 1: on a leach in this giant park, which is unsafe

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Speaker 1: for your dog and the people here. And so for

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Speaker 1: her to be like like, you can't even lie and

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Speaker 1: be like I felt threatener this man, it's just a

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Speaker 1: guy passing me the party, be like, yo, could you

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Speaker 1: put a leachh on your dog? And for that you

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Speaker 1: escalated all the way up to calling the cops, like

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Speaker 1: there's some sort of I don't know, like private investigator

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Speaker 1: or personal protector and they're just not The switch in

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Speaker 1: her voice was so sociopathic, like from like screaming at

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Speaker 1: him and advancing towards him and like getting too close

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Speaker 1: to him during the pandemic by the way um and

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Speaker 1: then to switching and pleading for the police to help

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Speaker 1: her and her dog. It was like it was incredible

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Speaker 1: that it was captured that way, and that we were

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Speaker 1: able to see it because I think like white people

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Speaker 1: just did not believe that switch or that that's a

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Speaker 1: regular occurrence, right, that the weaponization of a white woman

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Speaker 1: acting like she's scared and upset and and that that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's extremely disturbing and it that's why when we learn

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Speaker 1: about this history and think about these things that happened

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Speaker 1: in the past, it's not just like history. It matters

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Speaker 1: right now as well, and it's not something just known

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Speaker 1: to black people. She knew, That's why she used the system.

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Speaker 1: So it's that I think it's like at that point,

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Speaker 1: everybody was like, you can't this is just a random

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Speaker 1: white woman. You can't say that white people don't know

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Speaker 1: this and have been fine with it. Yeah, she was

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Speaker 1: perfectly aware of what that meant. Uh. The use of

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Speaker 1: police dogs against minorities continued to pass the civil rights movement,

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Speaker 1: obviously into today. In the nine eighties and nineties, l

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Speaker 1: A p D officers regularly attacked young minorities with their

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Speaker 1: police dogs and were known to refer to young black

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Speaker 1: people as quote dog biscuits. Whoa that is, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little black babies In the South used to be

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Speaker 1: called gator baits where they really left on logs as

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Speaker 1: we were alligators to the shore. Uh not all those

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Speaker 1: babies made back home. Pretty awful. Did not know. We've

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Speaker 1: had modern versions of that, which is just I did

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Speaker 1: not know the thing. Oh yeah, And there's like a

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Speaker 1: lot of in the same way that they have the

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Speaker 1: black lawn jockey, these racist depictions that go on the

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Speaker 1: lawn of the thing. I can. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: origin story of that, but it deeply disturbs me if

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Speaker 1: I drive by someone's house and sea like, what are

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Speaker 1: we doing? Like, I don't get it, but they would

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Speaker 1: do that. They have the same thing with like gator

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Speaker 1: bait T shirts, modern times posters like not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's crazy. This is why people have

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Speaker 1: to say black lives matter in case you're used as

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Speaker 1: gator bait, and the eighties and nineties calling people young

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Speaker 1: people like kids dog biscuits because they use their dogs

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Speaker 1: to attack them. It's yeah. So of course dogs are

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Speaker 1: still used as weapons by police today. Research has shown

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Speaker 1: that the prevalence, intensity, and bias of police dog bites.

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Speaker 1: So there was a study published in two thousand six

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Speaker 1: in Injury Extra which is a really weird name for

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Speaker 1: a scientific journal about some new injury, extra extra injury,

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Speaker 1: extra extra injury. Yeah, but yeah, it is not not

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Speaker 1: a necessarily a fun journal to read, but it is

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Speaker 1: very informative. So they found that police dog bites were

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Speaker 1: far more severe than non police dog bites, so a

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Speaker 1: police dog versus a dog owned by a civilian, so

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Speaker 1: people who were injured by police dogs were often bitten

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Speaker 1: multiple times, where civilian dogs typically only bit once. Researchers

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00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: found that police dog bite victims were bitten more often

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Speaker 1: in the head, neck, chest, and flank, They were hospitalized

401
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: more often, underwent more operations, and had more invasive diagnos

402
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Speaker 1: dick tests, and concluded that this was due to the

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00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 1: dogs quote special training. Another study published in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 1: in the Journal of Forensic and Legal Medicine found that

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Speaker 1: from two thousand and five to two thousand, thirteen percent

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Speaker 1: of people admitted to the hospital for police dog bite

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Speaker 1: injuries were black. For civilian dog bites, only thirteen percent

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Speaker 1: of inpatients were black. So that means that black people

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Speaker 1: were extremely overrepresented as victims of police dog violence. This

410
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Speaker 1: is not what we mean when we asked for representation.

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Speaker 1: This is not what we're hoping for. No, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even realize the distinct. I didn't even it didn't

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Speaker 1: even occur to me, the distinction of the extent of

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Speaker 1: the injuries of God. And again, this is I think

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Speaker 1: what we were talking about earlier, which is this isn't

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Speaker 1: just like, it's not just like dogs being dogs. These

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Speaker 1: are dogs trained to be more aggressive, trained to be

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Speaker 1: more injurious than a dog, like even a dog that

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00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: kind of lacks training, right, a dog who bites a person.

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Speaker 1: So full disclosure, my dog has some form of PTSD

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00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: from a dog attack, and she's she's a little little dog,

422
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: she's a little Chihuahba, so she's kind of nippy, and

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Speaker 1: we've done a ton of training to de escalate. It

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00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: always involves reducing her stress, lowering her anxiety. It's not

425
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 1: yelling at her, it's not you know, it's like you

426
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: to get a dog to be more calm and listen

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00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: to you more. You reduce the stress, you reduce the anxiety,

428
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: You make them attentive to you by positive reinforcement. I've

429
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: always felt like my experience, my personal experiences with dogs,

430
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: has been like I've used like negative reinforcement like twice

431
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: where I just kind of like, hell, I was like

432
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: be good, you know what I mean, Like I couldn't.

433
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: I'm just like mad at you know, I couldn't actually

434
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: do anything to a dog. But like I've noticed that

435
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: they always they always just want to do what you

436
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: want to do. Like positive reinforcement is the only thing

437
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: that ever works for dogs. And like because they so

438
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: badly want to be our friends, they so badly want

439
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: to please us. So if they're doing terrible things, it

440
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: has to be because they're trying to please somebody. And

441
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: who are they trying to please? In this case, it

442
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: can it can also be though a reaction to anxiety. Yeah,

443
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: you know it's it is so like I would say,

444
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: my dog probably has an anxiety disorder as a response

445
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: to um, the dog attacked she. She's actually been through

446
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: two dog attacks, both times from an unleashed dog, so

447
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,959
Speaker 1: please leash. Yes, So she is not a fan of

448
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: other dogs to say the least. All of her behavioral

449
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: problems are a result of anxiety, which I think is

450
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: a really important thing to remember as we get into

451
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: this next section about the training of dogs, how the

452
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: training of police dogs work in questioning some of these

453
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: claims made about police dogs, like that you can make

454
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: them be vicious or or gentle on command, which you

455
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: know is a very questionable claim. So we will talk

456
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: about the science of that and and debunk some myths

457
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 1: about these ideas about police dog training when we return.

458
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: There's a pervasive myth that a well trained dog will

459
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: react only to commands and nothing else in their environment,

460
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: as if the dog is a furry robot. Dog cognition

461
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: is incredibly complex and they're incredibly smart, but they're not robots.

462
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 1: Research has shown that dogs and their owners are so

463
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: emotionally linked that our stress levels will mirror each other.

464
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: Experimenters interviewed dog owners and gave them a survey to

465
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: describe themselves and their personality, as well as their dogs personality.

466
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: The researchers then studied hair samples taken from dogs and

467
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: their owners and look for the levels of cortisol, a

468
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: hormone related to stress. They found that the dogs cortisol

469
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: levels were corral alated with the owner's personality, such as

470
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: how the owners self describe their comfort with different situations.

471
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: While the researchers reassured dog owners that being anxious isn't

472
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: going to make your dog neurotic. It's true that dog

473
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: sends and respond to our stress into our personalities, and

474
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: the research showed that this connection is particularly strong and

475
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: well trained competition dogs. If anything, the more training a

476
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: dog goes through, the more carefully that dog is going

477
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: to pay attention to their owner, and the more sensitive

478
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: they'll be to their owner's stress and emotions. This is

479
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: important to keep in mind, especially when it's asserted that

480
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: dogs can be used as passive neutral weapons, when in

481
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: fact they're highly emotionally sensitive and intelligent animals who will

482
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: do their best to please their owner and will often

483
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: mirror their owner's emotions. In many cases, this could be positive.

484
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: Dogs and humans react to each other's emotions and support

485
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 1: each other, forming friendships. But as will soon discuss, this

486
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: relationship becomes dangerous in situations of police violence. When you

487
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: guys were in elementary school, did you ever have a

488
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: cop come to your school and do a demonstration of

489
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: their canine officers. I feel like, yeah, yeah, absolutely that happened. Yes,

490
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: it happened to me too. In sixth grade, I remember

491
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: police came to our school. They showed off their canine

492
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: officer attack a quote bad guy who was another officer

493
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: wearing protective leather gear and like on command, the dog

494
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: just like shot off like a bullet, tackled this guy

495
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: grabbed onto his arm, and we were supposed to think

496
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: this was cool. It was terrifying, Joel, you that happened

497
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: also to you where they like, look at our terrifying dogs.

498
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: Isn't that neat? Kids? Yeah? I still wonder what the

499
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: point of almost any cop coming into the school to

500
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: be like yo, because it wasn't after are like here's

501
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: how you stay safe from danger, or even like here's

502
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: like some of your civil like rights or anything like

503
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: here's some of your civic ability to protect yourself or

504
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: responsibilities or ways you can be like a good citizen

505
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: and enforced safety on your own block. It was always like,

506
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: here's drugs, don't do them, or I'll have to come

507
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: after you. Here's what drugs are, don't do them. Right?

508
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: You ever heard of acid? Kids, Let me tell you

509
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: all the details about it. That's crazy that it didn't

510
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: even occur to me that they should do that, like

511
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: teach us about our rights, like I like, I was

512
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: just like I don't want to hear that from a cop,

513
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: are you? But like that's what they should be doing. Yeah,

514
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: teach us are Miranda rights and stuff. But you think

515
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: about like the ideal like police officer, right, and it's

516
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to even say that because I mean,

517
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: I just imagined this space an empty space, just nothing officer.

518
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: But I think I think if we were too quote

519
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: unquote rebrand the police, so if they didn't have like

520
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: a low lineage of being slave catchers returning freed people

521
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: back to slavery, and they didn't have a long lineage

522
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: of being first about protecting the wealthy and their own pockets,

523
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: but they were actual like civil servants out to you know,

524
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: just help guide people uh to safety and kind of

525
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: apprehend people who were breaking the law in a way

526
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: that allowed them to be brought to justice instead of

527
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: ending up killed. I feel like a great officer would

528
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: be the kind of person who is from the community,

529
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: familiar with the individuals in that community, and has a

530
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: fested interest in um making sure that that place stays safe,

531
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: not at the expense of lives, but in a way

532
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: that again is just engaging the citizens. So for example,

533
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: like a theft is not oh my god, that guy's

534
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: a thief, get him it's do you need pants? Like

535
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: there was a story in Chicago about a guy he's homeless.

536
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: He's told a pair of jeans he needs some pants.

537
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: Can't be pantsless. They will arrestue for that too. Um.

538
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: He wounded up spending three years in prison just so

539
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: long to give him any kind of quirky because he

540
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: needed a pair of pants. Like the response to that

541
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: is your thirty dollars for these jeans? Go live? You

542
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: like how you bet? How much you bet? Some of

543
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: those arresting officers loved limbs. Oh my god. You know,

544
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: we have a whole musical slash movie thing where it's like,

545
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: it's so wrong that he was thrown in prison for

546
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: stealing bread, and now man steals pants to clothe himself

547
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: in jail. And if there's one way to get through

548
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: to white people, it's through musicals. You know. It's like

549
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: anyway to contact you and make sure you understand. But

550
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: we need it in song. We're happy to do it

551
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: through acrobatic cats. I've heard that's a thing. There's a

552
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: big question about brutal police dog bites, which is something

553
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: uh that POLIVI we talked about a little bit. An

554
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: email is like, are these dogs who aren't trained well

555
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: enough and the multiple severe bites they deliver a mistake

556
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: or are they doing what they are trained to do?

557
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: And So if it's if these like maulings by police

558
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: dogs are mistakes, then why are they safe to use

559
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: by police? And if they're not mistakes, why are police

560
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: training them to mall people? So canine handler in South Florida,

561
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: Charles Meslow, who is a criminal justice professor, claims, quote

562
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: properly trained dogs are like a switch. You turn them

563
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: on and you turn them off, which anyone who knows

564
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: anything about dogs should probably question a little bit. So

565
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: if this is true that dogs are like a switch

566
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: that you can turn on and off, then all injuries

567
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: inflicted by dogs on people are at the behest of police.

568
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: If it's not true, then dogs aren't like a switch

569
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: you can turn off on and off and are not

570
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: safe to use as weapons, especially in the way that

571
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: police train them. So let's dig into how these dogs

572
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: are trained. So how do you train a dog to

573
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 1: bite someone in a way that is quote like you know,

574
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: police enforcement or apprehending someone without mauling them. Now, I'm

575
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: first of all going to say I don't think there's

576
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: any way that a dog bite, even if it's just

577
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: like you know, not mauling you, that is the right

578
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: thing to do. Like, I just don't think that it's

579
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: right to use dog bites as any type of weapon

580
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: or enforcement. Well, it's just so variable, right, Like if

581
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: everything about like law enforcement and the the application ideally

582
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: of of laws in this country are supposed to be

583
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: specific and consistent in an ideal situation, then dogs using

584
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 1: animals in any form is so is such a risk factor.

585
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: It's so variable exactly exactly. So, police dogs are trained

586
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: to bite and hold, so the breeds they use have

587
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: incredible jaw strength, and their training teaches them to apply

588
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: more force than civilian dogs typically used. So remember earlier

589
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: we talked about how police dog bites are more severe

590
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: than civilian dog bites and this is due to their training.

591
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: And so in terms of dogs biting this this is

592
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: mystifying to me the idea that you can train a

593
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: dog to bite in a way, in a in a

594
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: hard way, not like a fake bite like a movie,

595
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: like a dog in a movie or something, but a

596
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 1: real bite that you're saying I have complete control over.

597
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: Because the way that dog communication and bites work is

598
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: a scale of escalation. So there is actually a bite

599
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: level system that was developed by animal behaviorist Dr Ian Dunbar,

600
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: and it ranks dog bites. So level one is like

601
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: nipping in the air, the dog just warning you like

602
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: it's not happy. Level two is nipping skin but not

603
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: puncturing it. Again, the dog is trying to communicate to you,

604
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable, you're scaring me. I'm upset, Please get away

605
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: from me. Um. But it's not trying to hurt you.

606
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: It's just trying to warn you. This is communicating. It's

607
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: still not like for all of these it's like anytime

608
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 1: you see this behavior and your dog, it's a sign

609
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: that your dog is anxious, scared, or there's a behavioral

610
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: issue and you you should address it um in a

611
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: way that focuses on de escalation, reducing stress and if

612
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: it's something that is like challenging, like talk to a

613
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: dog trainer about it. But so then level three is

614
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: biting and puncturing the skin, but the puncture is pretty shallow,

615
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: like more shallow than the length of the of the tooth.

616
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: So these are all like these are escalations of of

617
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: dog anxiety, dog stress UM and so these are things

618
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: that I had to deal with since Cookie had the

619
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: traumatizing X variance with this dog and these variable levels

620
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: of nipping and like, it's never never got beyond that,

621
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: but it's still like this is a sign the dog

622
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: is stressed or is not coping with anxiety in a

623
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: healthy way, So you have to train the dog how

624
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: to do that in a more healthy way. So level

625
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: four is a serious bite. It's a deep puncture or

626
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: multiple puncture wounds, and it is an indicator that the

627
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: dog's aggression and stress is out of control. The dog

628
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: is biting and clamping down at this point. This is

629
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: when dog bites can actually start to become fatal, and

630
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: it is it's the thing with dogs and their behavior

631
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: is like when dog trainers are talking to you about

632
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: like dogs nipping and biting. It's an escalation. So like

633
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: like you start a like you know these earlier levels.

634
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: Once you get to level four, it means that this

635
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: behavior has been escalating for a while. Their stress has

636
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: been unchecked. They have not been trained to deal with

637
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: their anxiety and stress in a more healthy way. So

638
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 1: this is a big warning sign for people with dogs.

639
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean the dog, like you know, is it's

640
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: irreversible or anything, but it just means that there needs

641
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: to be serious intervention. Um it gets more serious, much

642
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: more serious. With level five is multiple bites with deep punctures.

643
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: It's the highest level before level six, which is the

644
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: dog actually killing someone. This is the level that we

645
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: see in hospitalization of people with police dog bites, like

646
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: a lot of these hospitalizations. So like earlier the statistics

647
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: we talked about where with police dog bites they're more

648
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: likely than civilian dog bites to have multiple deep wounds,

649
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: which means that the dog is at this highest level

650
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: of aggression on this scale, meaning that they have been

651
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: trained to tap into like in terms of dog communication standards,

652
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: this is an extreme reaction for a dog to do

653
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: against like a human or a fellow dog. Biting, clamping down,

654
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: and tearing our signs that the dog is at a

655
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: high state of arousal and aggression. The claim that the

656
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: dog is this cool, level headed switch that they can

657
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: turn off and on once they're at this level of

658
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: aggression is ludicrous. Honestly, there are multiple anecdotal stories of

659
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: dogs biting bystanders and police officers indicating that dogs do

660
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: make quote mistakes and you know, this is terrible, But

661
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: I think it's not to say, like it's only terrible

662
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: when the nonintended target is hurt. To target people with

663
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: this is it self wrong. So I have a question, Um, So,

664
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: when these dogs are biting, I assume that not only

665
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: the intensity of the bite, but also the location of

666
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: the bite is it's significant, right, But even attacking the

667
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: leg like your femoral artery, could cause you to die.

668
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: So like, what are they how, how do they how

669
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: do they regulate that When a dog gets into the

670
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: state of arousal where they are extremely agitated, very extreme

671
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: levels of these stress hormone is going on, they start

672
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: attacking things like the head, the neck, like you said,

673
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: even if it's quote just attacking the legs, Your legs

674
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: have important stuff in them, it has for moral arteries.

675
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: It can't. Dog bites can, like severe dog attacks do

676
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: kill people. It's still incredibly damaging. And why did why

677
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: did these violent attacks need to happen at all? And

678
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: when a dog is taught to bite down and clamp

679
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: down and shake, that will that will tear flesh off

680
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: of someone and that is extremely dangerous, obviously extremely painful.

681
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: If you are skeptical, which I kind of doubt anyone

682
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: is at this point. There are photos of injuries that

683
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: can be results of police dog bites and they are horrific.

684
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 1: They leave horrific scars. You can see like how incredibly

685
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: it's damaging. And again, yes, exactly, and and you know,

686
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: so a dog who is just maybe a dog who

687
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: hasn't had that great training often doesn't engage in this

688
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: type of biting like it's not it's sometimes they do,

689
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: like severe bites can come from civilian owned dogs, but

690
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: for the most part, the bites are like the kind

691
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: of like level three bite of they bite you once

692
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: and it hurts, and it can actually it can be injurious.

693
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: You may need to go to the hospital. But the

694
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: dog is like it is trying to communicate with you

695
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: in a sense of like I'm mad at you. Get

696
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: away from me. You know, it's not you know, it's

697
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: like not vindictive. It's just trying to protect itself, right exactly.

698
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: It's stressed out. It's trying to but like these bites

699
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: were clamps down and applies pressure and holds down is

700
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: an escalation of aggression where it's like the dog is

701
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: at that point attempting to uh inflict an injury, not

702
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: because the dog is bad or evil, but because the

703
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: dog has been taught this is what you do. This

704
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: is you know, you get rewarded for doing this. So

705
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: the idea that you can like basically work a dog

706
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: up to this high level of aggression and then I

707
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: can just say stop and stop the dog, That's just

708
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 1: not how brains work. That's not how dogs work. The analogies,

709
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: the analogies here of of cops with guns like just

710
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: is so so similar because of all I think that there.

711
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: I can't remember where I got this data from, but

712
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: a while back, I was just researching it for my

713
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: own purposes, which means I was trying to prove someone wrong.

714
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: And I looked it up and there was like in

715
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: certain police departments or something, there was like sevent of

716
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: officers were like Caucasian, not including like Latin X or

717
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: Asian um and they they There was also simultaneously studies

718
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: where like white people believe that black people have like

719
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: superhuman strength and our quote unquote animalistic right, and so

720
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: you combine that with giving them a gun. You combine

721
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: those incredible biases and those numbers of the number of

722
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: like Caucasian police officers with giving them a gun, and

723
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: it's a very similar thing to an unrestrained dog that

724
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: has been trained to attack minorities. Dogs aren't born racist,

725
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 1: much like humans aren't born racist, but like a dog

726
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: can be taught to fear people who are look different

727
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: from their owners if their owners like teach them this

728
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: is who you fear. It makes me curious. I bet

729
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: that there's not a lot of statistics on this, but

730
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: it makes me curious to see how, you know, how

731
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: all these dogs live with their their police owners. I

732
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: think it's my perception, um like the you know in

733
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 1: interracial relationships or marriages, like how they how those dogs

734
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: treat minorities versus um dogs with all white families. I'm

735
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: curious about that. It's interesting. Yeah, So the justification for

736
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: using dog bites uh as a police weapon is that

737
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: it's quote pain compliance, which is the idea that the

738
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: dog bite will cause quote pain, but injury, which will

739
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: cause the target to comply. None of this sentence makes sense. So,

740
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: first of all, as we've just talked about, you can't

741
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: train a dog to bite just hard enough to hurt,

742
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: but not so hard that they injure someone. That's not

743
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: how dog aggression works. You can't train people the officers

744
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: right right exactly and for you know, like like the

745
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: dog's communication system and aggression system literally is documented escalation

746
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: of force, and you can't be like, okay, bite them

747
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: hard enough to hold them down, but then don't bite

748
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: so deep it it punctures an art, you know, like

749
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: what is the dog a doctor who's like, I know

750
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: just where to bite the person where it will hurt,

751
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: but won't you know, hurt them. It's it doesn't make sense. Um,

752
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: there's no evidence that you can train a dog just

753
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: to be aggressive enough to the point where it's like

754
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: useful for arresting someone. Um. Also, uh, you know there's

755
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: um the you're rewarding dogs for increased aggression, so escalate

756
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: like dogs like to kind of escalate things that they're

757
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: rewarded for. It's actually one of the tricky parts of

758
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: training dogs with jobs is like you they get rewarded

759
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: for certain behaviors. If you want to selectively reward them

760
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: for doing only those behaviors when they're supposed to, It's

761
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 1: it's tricky because they want to do them all the time.

762
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: They're like, wait, you give me a treat for that?

763
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: I want to do that now, and I want to

764
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: want to do that again. Now. I want to see

765
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: you happy, I want to see you reward me. That's

766
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: how dog cognition works. It's very very hard to get

767
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: them to selectively only, you know, like only be aggressive

768
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: when you want them too. Is kind of yeah. So

769
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: here's this is not just my opinion. This is also

770
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: the opinion of certified dog behavioral consultant Dr Richard S. Pulsky,

771
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: who says, quote, animal behavior analysis indicates that attacked attack

772
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: trained knines are not automated, programmed machines oblivious to the

773
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: variables that control aggressive response ding. If one looks at

774
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: the principles of animal behavior science, particularly with regard to

775
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: principles of learning and conditioning, one easily understands why police

776
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 1: canines are prone to behavioral error. For example, mistakes happen

777
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: because the act of attack for the dog is self reinforcing.

778
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 1: The reinforcing nature of the response increases the dog's motivation

779
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: and arousal to extremely high levels, therefore increasing the chance

780
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: of the dog making a mistake. So you combine the

781
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: dog who's being rewarded for being aggressive and the police

782
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: officer who's rewarded for being aggressive. You know, it's like,

783
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: of course, like what are like, how is this okay

784
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 1: that dogs are used as weapons? Like it? That doesn't

785
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: and none of these dog cops are going to tell

786
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: on each other. They're not going to run it up

787
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: the flagpole. You know, they're all in this gang together.

788
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: The other thing is, um that statement, that original statement

789
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: that you're addressing the parts of said that the pain

790
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: compliance said that it's in tended to cause pain but

791
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: not injury, and the whole thing is moot because it

792
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: causes people to die, Like you know, there's it's been

793
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 1: all the way up to death, all these sorts of injuries,

794
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: so that that whole statement in itself is false. Right,

795
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: It's like it's supposed to do this except for this

796
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: one time and this other time, and this other time

797
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: and this. You know, if you're saying like, well, this

798
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: is the intended effect, we just have a few mistakes,

799
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: It's like, no, if you have a bunch of mistakes,

800
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: then it doesn't matter what you're quote. Right, this is

801
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: the documented effect that we see in hospitals. So the

802
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: other part of that thing, where the idea of pain

803
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: compliance making a target quote comply, is completely absurd, So

804
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,479
Speaker 1: like the whole premise of it is stupid. The idea

805
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: that a person, when being bitten by a dog is

806
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: going to calm down and become compliant is like the

807
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: most ludicrous thing I've ever heard, both of someone who

808
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: studied psychology and also I've dealt with um sort of

809
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: a near miss dog attack. This was one of the

810
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 1: times that Cookie got it like attacked by a dog,

811
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: and I had all these logical ideas worked out of

812
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: what I would do in that case. My mind went

813
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: completely blank. I picked up Cookie and I started like screaming,

814
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: and the dog was like started to nip at me.

815
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: And again, this was not like a very serious attack

816
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: for me, but I was still freaking out and panicking,

817
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: and I like thrashing around and and clutching the dog

818
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: and freaking out. The dog biting me didn't make me

819
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: more calm, And I can't imagine a situation in which

820
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: a dog biting you would ever make you like, Okay,

821
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: I guess I just gotta relax now. And like, I

822
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 1: feel like they don't know what pain is, and that's

823
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: very confusing to me, because like any kind of pain,

824
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: it's going to spike your adrenaline. Yeah, like just naturally.

825
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: I don't know science, but I know that you do.

826
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: Apparently you know science better than police, because that's absolutely true.

827
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: So pain triggers stress hormones and the fight or flight response.

828
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: So someone being attacked by a dog is not going

829
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: to go limp and compliant. They're gonna struggle thrash, which

830
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: is an automatic response to pain. Um, And that thrashing

831
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: and that panicking is also going to trigger the dog

832
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: to bite. More so, it is putting dogs and people

833
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: into a situation that is absolutely clearly going to lead

834
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: to escalation. So this is UM. A victim of a

835
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: police dog bite, a very severe one, described his experience

836
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: when the dog started to tear into his legs, saying, quote,

837
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 1: I didn't hear what they were saying. He's talking about

838
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: the police officers. I didn't hear what they were saying.

839
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 1: My mind just went blank. That's what happens when you

840
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: are panicked and in pain. So the idea that this

841
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: is going to make someone comply when they are it's

842
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: like they're shouting orders at him. He can't hear them

843
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: because he's being attacked by a dog and he's scared,

844
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: and the dog is seeing this guy thrash and struggle,

845
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: and the dog is getting more scared and anxious and

846
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: biting harder. It's just like this is it's I don't know,

847
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: it's like it really is reminiscent of the history of

848
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, using victims to abuse dogs, and then those

849
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: dogs to abuse the victims. It's just twisted. It's The

850
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: kicker is that people who struggle when being bitten by

851
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: a police dog are often charged with resisting arrest. That's crazy.

852
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: That's they're resisting bites from a police dog, right as

853
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: if the dog has like a couple of hands, like

854
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: it's tiny handcuffs, like like give them a badge though, Like,

855
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: well you don't have badges in uniforms, so they don't

856
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: see the difference. Like that is wild. Yeah, yeah it doesn't.

857
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: That's how do they get charged if there I've seen

858
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: videos of them like on the ground, and they get

859
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: charged with resisting arrest by a dog. Yeah, they're really

860
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: trying to make some dogs go to hell. That's what

861
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: they're trying to do. They're trying a bit try to

862
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: pit dogs against people just to make that statement all

863
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: dogs go to heaven. Not true. But I mean I think,

864
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm not saying all this, you know

865
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: to make people afraid of dogs. This is a problem

866
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 1: of how police use dogs and abuse the trainable nature

867
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: of dogs, so domesticated dogs are not inherently violent. You

868
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: can reward them for aggressive behavior that is a result

869
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: of them being stressed, and like either through like training

870
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: or or animal abuse, like they can learn to be

871
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: aggressive and used as tools of violence. This also, like

872
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: I know that this is very like critical in terms

873
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: of just like survival for for minorities, um, but even

874
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: just on the other end of it, this is such

875
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: a like a violation of the human experience because I

876
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: so I know so many minorities must be afraid of

877
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: dogs because of their experiences with them. And it is

878
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: such a white supremacist thing to take like part of

879
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: the joy of human life and and guard it for

880
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: yourself against other other people who want to partake in it.

881
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: It's like the swimming pool thing. It's like, you know,

882
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: like black people got made fun of for not being

883
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: able to swim. Well it's only because they weren't allowed to,

884
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,919
Speaker 1: you know. It's like like it's joy Like how like

885
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: how dare you take companionship with animals, like knowing how

886
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: much joy and love I get from it. To know

887
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: that that same creature would trigger PTSD in a person

888
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: is just so it's so disgusting. I can't absolutely it's

889
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: end it. Docs are a unique animal. It's been this incredible,

890
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: unlikely friendship between these early wolf like animals and humans,

891
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: and just like, huh, you know, it's actually makes more

892
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: sense to get along and to take that in just

893
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: that incredible like we're friends with an animal that's amazing,

894
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 1: and use it for violence and evil and like you said,

895
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 1: deprive people of this part of it truly is like

896
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: this fundamental part of the human experience to bond with animals.

897
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: And it's also I mean, obviously the main concern are

898
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: the human victims of police dog violence, but I think

899
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: this is also abusive towards the dogs themselves. Um VA suppression,

900
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: which is the hormone that indicates higher levels of aggression

901
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: in dogs, is also associated with higher levels of anxiety.

902
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: So and aggressive dog is an anxious dog. And if

903
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: you're training, if you're reinforcing a dog's aggressive behavior, I

904
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: don't see how that dog isn't stressed all the time,

905
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: you know, Like I mean, I've seen anecdotal things about dogs,

906
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,720
Speaker 1: police dogs like getting PTSD, and it's like, of course

907
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 1: they would have these problems. I mean, it's your training

908
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,759
Speaker 1: dogs to be perpetually stressed and putting them into too

909
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: stressful positions and making them respond to things with aggression,

910
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: which is stressful for dogs. It's not constant state of

911
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: shock and fight or fight, right. Yeah, So I don't know,

912
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: it's I just I I don't think dogs should be

913
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: used as weapons. It's just not. It's not right. It's

914
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: not right to the people that they hurt. It's not

915
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: right to the you know, the animals themselves. It's just

916
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: and I don't think the people who use them as

917
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 1: weapons should get to have the joy of having a dog.

918
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: It's you know what I mean, It's like, screw you, guys.

919
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: You don't get this fair. I mean, Tommy Robs should

920
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: be for good people who don't hurt other people. Yes,

921
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: but I I mean, thanks guys for sticking through this.

922
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: I know this was um, it's not you know, it's

923
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: a it's a heavy subject. I think it's really important

924
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 1: to talk about. We are going to talk about how

925
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: we can have dogs have jobs that are positive. There

926
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: are jobs that are both great for humans and also

927
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: good for the dogs mental health and stimulation, and some

928
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: of these are pretty incredible and inspiring, so we will

929
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: talk about that when we return. One of the negative

930
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: effects associated with the history of police dog use has

931
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: been an increase in dog related phobias. Some research has

932
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: shown that the use of police dogs during the Civil

933
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: Rights era may have led to an increase in dog

934
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 1: phobias amongst Black Americans. What's especially heartbreaking about this is

935
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: how dogs can have such a gentle, positive impact for people,

936
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: and by using them as weapons, many people, especially Black

937
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: Americans and other minorities targeted by police, may be forced

938
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: to associate dogs with violence. The thing is, dogs are

939
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: not intrinsically violent. When their most admirable qualities, such as

940
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: their ability to sense human emotion, their gentleness, their intelligence,

941
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: and playfulness are all nurtured, they are remarkably loving and

942
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: uniquely social with humans. Training dogs to hurt people is

943
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: such a misuse and abuse of this special connection that

944
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: we have with dogs. When we return, we're going to

945
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: end with something to lift your spirits. There are many

946
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: jobs that dogs can have that are so incredibly wonderful

947
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: and frankly impressive things that help people and that the

948
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: dogs themselves seem to enjoy. We're gonna talk about therapy dogs,

949
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: special doctor medicine, scientists, dogs, big fluffy dogs, and teeny

950
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: tiny penguins, so stay tuned for that. So dog jobs

951
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: don't have to be negative. They can be a huge

952
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: boon to humanity and to the environment. Dogs are perfectly

953
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: poised to be one of the most uniquely well suited

954
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: animals to work with humans. They're distant, wolflike ancestors, were

955
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: already highly social pack animals and dogs have co evolved

956
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: with humans for tens of thousands of years, developing skills

957
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: such as reading our emotions and learning how to communicate

958
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: with us. And now we have developed an incredible partnership

959
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: with these animals. I think it's our responsibility to treat

960
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: this bond with utmost respect, both where people and dogs

961
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: are concerned. So we've talked about what not to do,

962
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 1: which is to use dogs as weapons against people. So

963
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: now I want to talk about positive jobs that are

964
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: good for people and good for dogs. So these are

965
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: jobs that instead of taking advantage of dogs stress response

966
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: and aggressive responses to anxiety, these take advanta of dogs

967
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 1: best nature they're loving, sweet nature and the things that

968
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: bring dogs themselves joy. So first let's talk about therapy

969
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: dogs and service dogs. And this I don't know. Whenever

970
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: I see a therapy dog in a hospital with the

971
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: goofy little face just about to go into the room

972
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, I'm gonna kiss a little kid, like,

973
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: it's just it's the cutest thing. It's the sweetest thing.

974
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: So there is a difference between therapy and service dogs.

975
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 1: Therapy dogs are dogs trained to have a very stable, chill,

976
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: calm personality, to be gentle and provide psychological comfort and

977
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: health to those who interact with them, whereas service dogs

978
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: are trained to provide aid to people with disabilities, such

979
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: as seeing eye dogs, medical alert dogs, dogs trained to

980
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: fetch in hailers or other medical supplies for those in need,

981
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: and dogs trained to provide mobility support. There's also dogs

982
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: that like alert when someone's having a at a coal emergency,

983
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: Like they can detect signs that someone say about to

984
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,439
Speaker 1: have a seizure, and the dog alerts that they're about

985
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: to have a seizure. And it's it's incredible that we

986
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: like dogs are so smart and so perceptive and we

987
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: can train them to help us in this way. And

988
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: these are obviously tasks that are incredibly important and wonderful.

989
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: Can I add um a couple of jobs that I've seen.

990
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 1: I volunteered in hospitals and so like beyond even um

991
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: just the therapy or the specific tasks, there are certain dogs.

992
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: There are certain children with like very fatal peanut allergies

993
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: and things like that, and so dogs that are able

994
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: to sniff that out. In like the household allows kids

995
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: to be able to interact with other children without fearing

996
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: for their lives. Like they're allowed to have people come

997
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: over because the dog can like sniff the other kid

998
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 1: and like make sure that everything's okay, or they're like

999
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: they have their dog with them in the playroom and

1000
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: the other kids parents bring in peanuts and stuff and

1001
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: late like these children will literally die, you know, if

1002
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: they're exposed to it. So it's it's it's things beyond

1003
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: um that, things that we don't even think of. I

1004
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: know that there was like when I was in college,

1005
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: we had a bed bug outbreak and they brought like

1006
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: they brought a little beagle for like our loft space,

1007
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: and then they brought a big beagle for like the

1008
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: floor or whatever, and so the beagles were sniffing out

1009
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: the bed bugs and it was like very cute and

1010
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: very adorable there likeighting day on campus. Yeah, oh my god,

1011
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,240
Speaker 1: that's so and like you've got the I just imagining

1012
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,840
Speaker 1: them have this team dynamic of the little one being

1013
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: like kind of spirited and yeah, that's exactly bugs and

1014
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 1: like the old one, you know, like we're gonna get

1015
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: this job. Yeah, I don't know. It's just like it's

1016
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: there's so many Like when you don't use them for

1017
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: for weapons, which they can't control because they're in an

1018
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: anxious state. When they're in a happy state, they can

1019
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: do so many amazing things, like they're social precision train

1020
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: I've seen videos of Golden retrievers picking up eggs. Instead

1021
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: of teaching a dog to be violent with their mouths,

1022
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: you can teach them to be so gentle with their

1023
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: mouth that they can pick up That's that's a TikTok trend.

1024
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: And apparently it's like a natural thing that dogs recognize

1025
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: not to hurt the egg like, and so everybody's like, hey,

1026
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: i've heard dogs don't like crunch on eggs. Let me

1027
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: try with my dog, and like it's the first time

1028
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: that they've ever given their dog an egg, and and

1029
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: the dogs very gentle because they're perceptive about a lot

1030
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: of these things when they're not stressed out, you know,

1031
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: right exactly, and they're actually happy to like when they

1032
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: do these jobs as long as they're being trained in

1033
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: a positive reinforcement way. Of course that's a caveat, like

1034
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: the training itself has to be positive and and kind.

1035
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: But when they are trained in that positive reinforcement way

1036
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: and they do these jobs like therapy and service jobs,

1037
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: like they are in a relaxed state. And they have

1038
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: actually been studies to confirm this. So a study and

1039
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: applied animal behavior science found that dogs who worked as

1040
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: therapy dogs were uh, not stressed in any measurable way.

1041
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: So they looked at their cortisol levels and their body

1042
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: expressions and found that there was no difference in stress

1043
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: levels at home or in the hospital. So they were

1044
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: as relaxed at the hospital as they were at home.

1045
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:20,479
Speaker 1: And you know, you can also like this is maybe

1046
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: less scientific, but you can look at the body language

1047
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: of a therapy dog and as they sit outside of

1048
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: someone's room waiting to go in, and they're so they

1049
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: their tails are wagging. They look like really content and

1050
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: happy and they're they're getting pets from kids. Like what more?

1051
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: Right there? They are getting you know, these interactions with

1052
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 1: kids where they're getting loved and they're expressing love. And yeah,

1053
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: I mean that is that's like thin, Yeah, it is beautiful.

1054
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: It's dogs and humans at their best. It's also the

1055
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: tasks that these dogs often do are very similar to

1056
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 1: enrichment activities that are given to dogs to improve our

1057
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: mental health. So I also love with that story you're

1058
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: telling about like alerting to the peanuts using a dog's

1059
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,640
Speaker 1: love of peanuts and peanut butter, like for good humanity,

1060
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: where it's like I could smell a peanut them, I

1061
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: don't even think. I don't even think that dog probably

1062
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: never gets peanut butter, but a get chicken or something,

1063
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, yeah of course, yeah, but like Cookie, Cookie

1064
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: could smell a peanut, but if she found it, she

1065
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: just like crunched it down. I also, I also think

1066
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: it's like with these positive tasks where they're like protecting people.

1067
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,959
Speaker 1: I just this is not scientific, but I just feel

1068
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: like it's what they want to do because they love people,

1069
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: like they want to take care of us, like we

1070
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: take care of them and like there's a partnership there

1071
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: and they're more motivated to like help us and they

1072
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 1: are to hurt us. Well, when you look at the

1073
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: evolutionary history of dogs and how we like, I keep

1074
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 1: saying this, how we like co evolved with dogs are

1075
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: our society and dogs like they basically we selected for

1076
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: their wolf like ancestors who were not afraid of us

1077
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 1: and weren't aggressive, and basically like humans who enjoyed the

1078
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: dog's presence, dogs that enjoyed the humans presence, We formed

1079
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: this mutualistic relationship and we like there's early evidence and

1080
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 1: we actually talk about this on an earlier episode about dogs,

1081
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: or there's early evidence of dogs being buried with these

1082
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: high value items like way way long time ago, meaning

1083
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:27,160
Speaker 1: that we had this emotional connection to the dogs, and

1084
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: the dogs I think have an emotional connection to us

1085
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: because they are highly social, but their socialness has changed

1086
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: to be focused on humans like they they are studies

1087
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: that show like they look at our facial expressions, they

1088
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: focus more on the side of our face that is

1089
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:46,959
Speaker 1: more expressive. They unlike wolves, they're distant cousins. Like when

1090
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: they encounter a problem, they look at a human, They're like,

1091
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: help me with this puzzle, and there they really have

1092
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: evolved to look to us and to derive pleasure from

1093
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: our company. Um, and I think that's you know, I

1094
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: think that's that's great. And we we have a responsibility

1095
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: to our fellow people and two dogs to use that

1096
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: in a way that's positive. And you know, kind one

1097
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 1: of the things that kind of frustrates me is like

1098
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: drug sniffing dogs. It's like, yeah, they have an amazing

1099
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 1: sense of smell. Instead of like the war drugs are

1100
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: so stupid, we could use their noses for these incredible feats,

1101
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: like dogs who can literally smell cancer in blood. So

1102
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 1: dogs have noses that are about ten thousand times more

1103
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: accurate than humans, and a study in experimental biology found

1104
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: that dogs can detect cancerous blood samples with almost nine

1105
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: percent accuracy, which is like a superpower. It should be

1106
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: in every household, you know what I mean, Like rather

1107
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: than having these dogs like you know what, like, we

1108
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,480
Speaker 1: should be able to have more access to these good dogs. Yes.

1109
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: So the reason that these dogs aren't like in doctor

1110
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: lab coats going around hospital sniffing cancer is because of

1111
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,919
Speaker 1: the way that dog training works, which is it can

1112
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 1: but it's like we talked about earlier, why that is

1113
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 1: bad in terms of law enforcement, it can also have

1114
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: limitations for good things too. So when you train the

1115
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: dog to first of all, you have to train the

1116
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 1: dog to detect a specific type of cancer. There are

1117
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 1: many types of cancer, so you'd have to invest in

1118
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: training dogs for each type of cancer. But also dogs

1119
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 1: need positive reinforcements. So when they like sniff or something

1120
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: and they properly signal and they get a positive reinforcement,

1121
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: like that is what keeps them wanting to do that behavior.

1122
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: So most blood samples aren't going to have cancer. And

1123
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: so if you have a dog like sniffing around and

1124
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: never finding anything, the dog's gonna be discouraged. So you

1125
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: could potentially plant like um one you know has it in.

1126
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 1: But the problem is that if they signal and you

1127
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 1: have no way of knowing whether that like you these

1128
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: that you're basically diagnosing, so you don't know if they're

1129
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 1: signaling correctly. The problem is if you reward them for

1130
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 1: signaling and they're incorrect, you're reinforcing a mistake. So they

1131
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 1: will keep signaling. Just they'll start signaling everyone. Suddenly all

1132
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 1: the blood samples have cancer because they want rewards. Um.

1133
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: But if you don't reward them for signaling correctly, then

1134
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: they get discouraged, like well, heck, you know I did

1135
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: the right thing. So you know, it's kind of like

1136
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: um an artificial intelligence and stuff. You have to have

1137
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,640
Speaker 1: a set of like labeled data that you know is

1138
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 1: like positive or negative, and then you just train the

1139
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: system this in this case the dog on that data.

1140
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: But you would have to do it at regular intervals

1141
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 1: and with new labeled data um and and so that

1142
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: would take like a long time and also like a

1143
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 1: lot of samples that could be otherwise used for research,

1144
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 1: right exactly, But the fact that dogs can smell cancer

1145
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: may help us develop other tools for cancer detection, basically

1146
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: zeroing in like what they're actually smelling, what's binding to

1147
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: their smell receptors, and could we create an artificial dog

1148
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: nose for detecting cancer which would be and have the

1149
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: benefits of the dogs being able to detect it. But

1150
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: unlike the dogs, it wouldn't get discouraged by like you're

1151
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 1: not finding it. Dogs like sad that they can't fight cancer?

1152
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 1: What is wrong with you? Dogs? Come on? Um? Yeah,

1153
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: but it is it's like again, like using dogs incredible

1154
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,720
Speaker 1: gifts to further medicine and science. I think in a

1155
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: way that is again like these researchers are really thinking

1156
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 1: about the dogs in terms of like it doesn't work

1157
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 1: in this case to do something that isn't fun for

1158
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: the dog. It has to be fulfilling for the dog

1159
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 1: or they they won't do it, and like that's like fair,

1160
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: you know. So another case, this is okay, this is

1161
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: my favorite, is dogs out there protecting the environment by

1162
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: being dogs. So dogs. Uh So. In the mid two

1163
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 1: thousand and there was a penguin crisis on Middle Island, Australia.

1164
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 1: Remember this, yes, yes, so um foxes were rapidly driving

1165
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:15,520
Speaker 1: down the population of the world's smallest penguin, the fairy penguin.

1166
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,799
Speaker 1: And if you've never seen one of these penguins, there

1167
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: tiny little penguins that you could right now hold it.

1168
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: You could hold it in your It's just like the

1169
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: size of a burrito. It's so cute. So foxes from

1170
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: Mainland Australia were able to get to the island when

1171
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: changes in the sea currents allowed a natural bridge of

1172
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 1: sand to form. So probably our fault, I mean this

1173
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: might have been who knows, but I think this one

1174
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: might have just been on mother Nature being a being

1175
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: a jerk. But the penguin population went from the hundreds

1176
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: to just a handful, which is alarming because the tiny

1177
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: penguins must be saved. So incomes Marima sheep dogs, which

1178
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:10,719
Speaker 1: are big, fluffy white dogs that look like super friendly

1179
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:14,640
Speaker 1: polar bears and are used by farmers to keep foxes

1180
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: away from their chickens. And one of these farmers like

1181
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,320
Speaker 1: heard about the penguin problems, like, penguin's not too different

1182
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,719
Speaker 1: from a chicken, Like, why can't we use these dogs

1183
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 1: to protect the penguins. It's the first of all, I'm

1184
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: so sorry. It's criminal how much you're underselling the cuteness

1185
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: of these penguins. I looked them up, you guys. Okay,

1186
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 1: imagine like a chick, but in the shape of a penguin,

1187
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: and that's what it looks like, like a tiny little

1188
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,879
Speaker 1: chicken when it's all yellow and fluzzing cute, but it's penguin.

1189
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: And apparently some people started putting sweaters on them. Oh

1190
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: my god. And then also there's like pictures of the

1191
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 1: penguins cuddling up with the doggies and they're like little friends,

1192
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: I love nature friends. And then they made like little

1193
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: penguin doggy stuffed animals, so that so the original penguin

1194
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: protector dog is named Oddball, and she started the trend

1195
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: of these Marima sheep dogs being used to watch over

1196
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,840
Speaker 1: the penguin population which has healed and has come back

1197
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 1: into the hundreds. And the best part about this is

1198
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,879
Speaker 1: these sheep dogs are not really violent, so they aren't.

1199
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: It's not like they're going around violently attacking predators. They

1200
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: are just so big and so imposing they scare them off. There.

1201
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: They initially like they're these like huge, gentle dogs that

1202
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: are very intimidating, very protective, so they'll they'll bark at

1203
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: a fox, but that's that's enough to scare off these

1204
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,599
Speaker 1: little foxes. And but they're gentle enough to be around

1205
01:12:56,000 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: the penguins without hurting them. So it's just I don't know,

1206
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: I want a Disney movie now. I was just about

1207
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: let you know that one already exists, Old odd Ball.

1208
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 1: It came out. It's available to watch on Prime video

1209
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 1: right now, and one of the stars is Alan Chuttick. So,

1210
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's so cute. I can't Okay, yeah,

1211
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: I know what I'm watching tonight. That's my that's my

1212
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 1: Quarantine movie for two nights. Puppy and the penguins on

1213
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 1: its head all happy. It's just so it's like again,

1214
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: like dogs used to be these like wolves that would

1215
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 1: just basically down a bunch of these penguins in one bite.

1216
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 1: But now they're just big, old, big old cuties, that

1217
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 1: giant old flukes who's like, don't worry a little, Prague's

1218
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: your chafe with me? Ah. And then the last story

1219
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 1: I want to talk about is similar, is is how

1220
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:04,719
Speaker 1: do ugs are used as companions to cheetahs, which again

1221
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 1: I just love how like, like, man, how do we

1222
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: protect these wild animals or make them safer or happier? Well,

1223
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 1: dogs do that for us, so why not these animals.

1224
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: So when cheetahs are orphaned or without siblings, like in

1225
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: a zoo or rescue, they are not having a good

1226
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: time because cheetahs are highly, highly anxious. I know, they

1227
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: look like sleek, you know, predator, and they are predators,

1228
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 1: but they're they're like little they have kind of the sweetest,

1229
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: like shyest personality of any wildcat. They're very skittish, very

1230
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: like they live very stressful lives, and in the wild

1231
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: they actually either live like with their mom and they

1232
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,639
Speaker 1: form these kind of family units, or like when they're adults,

1233
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: the males will form these like coalitions of of males

1234
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:55,679
Speaker 1: and then the females typically once they start a family,

1235
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 1: they just like have the cycle of always having their

1236
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:01,679
Speaker 1: young around and having these things. So even though they're

1237
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: not um pack animals and they're not pride animals, they

1238
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: still form these close bonds with each other. And so

1239
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 1: a baby cheetah with no siblings and no parents all

1240
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 1: alone is going to be very anxious. And these um

1241
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: wildlife rescuers would notice this that they were very you know,

1242
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: not having a good time, and they thought, well, it

1243
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 1: needs like we don't have another baby cheetah. We can't

1244
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 1: do that, but we do have this little puppy, and

1245
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 1: so they put the little I think it's a Golden

1246
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 1: retriever public and they became just fast friends. The cheetah

1247
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: like calmed down and the dog, you know, the these

1248
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: the dog was very happy to like get licks and

1249
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: cuddles from this cheetah, and they just grew up to

1250
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 1: be these great friends. In like this has been used

1251
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: by zoos and rescues to keep cheetahs who have been

1252
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: orphaned or are alone happy and less stressed and give

1253
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: them just this like companion and you know, like it's

1254
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: basically like this dog is a therapy dog for the cheetah,

1255
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: and the dog is more than happy to get love

1256
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: and attention from the What's cool is seeing it when

1257
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 1: they're like little babies and they're like both little fuzzballs,

1258
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: and it seems like, you know, like dogs with cats,

1259
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: dogs um dogs seem more um like protect like more

1260
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: kind of protective than cats. Like cats don't come out

1261
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: like as as able, you know what I mean. Like

1262
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: it just seems like dogs have their their stuff together

1263
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,240
Speaker 1: when they're puppies. But then the puppies are a little

1264
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 1: more like on the ball, yeah, than kittens. But then

1265
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: when they grow up, this cheetah is like so much

1266
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 1: bigger and more intimidating looking than the dog, but they

1267
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: have each other's back because they love each other, and

1268
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,839
Speaker 1: the dog has no ego about it. Well, the cheetah

1269
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:58,440
Speaker 1: probably still looks up to the dog, like knowing cheetah personalities,

1270
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,640
Speaker 1: like even though the cheetah is like bigger than the

1271
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 1: doge was like or where do we go big brother

1272
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 1: or big sisters that uh yeah, And apparently like these

1273
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 1: cheetahs form these really strong bonds with these dogs such

1274
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 1: that like you can't you can't just like put any

1275
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: dog in with the cheetah. You can introduce, like an

1276
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: old dog to a young cheetah, like the dog is

1277
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: often willing to make friends with, like a young cheetah,

1278
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,280
Speaker 1: but an old cheetah, like, you can't tossing a dog

1279
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 1: that's the cheetah doesn't like would be no, no, no,

1280
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: they'll be scared of they'll be scared of the dog. Yeah,

1281
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 1: they'll be they'll be fearful. So afraid of a dog.

1282
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: I don't understand. Cheetahs are so Cheetahs live these very

1283
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: harsh lives, and they're very skittish and they have to

1284
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 1: compete with lions and hyenas and a lot, like their

1285
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: cubs are often killed by hyenas. He's a um which

1286
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 1: are not actually dogs, but like these um you know,

1287
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,320
Speaker 1: dog like yeah, dog like, and so they you know,

1288
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: when they see another animal that is potentially a predator

1289
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 1: that which you know, yeah, a Golden retriever or whatever,

1290
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: right like like, well, if I'm a predator, then just

1291
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: called Paris walls, not pride. But yeah, I mean it's

1292
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 1: not that I'm not saying like a cheetah couldn't harm

1293
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: a dog may be able to, but cheetahs are easily intimidated.

1294
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,520
Speaker 1: They are they're very fearful animals, even though they are predators.

1295
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:34,040
Speaker 1: They will go after after prey animals. They don't cotitions

1296
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 1: exactly there. But so that's lovely. They need emotional support dogs.

1297
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: That's sweet that they you know, they have their bonds

1298
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 1: means something basically like all these dog jobs show like

1299
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: tapping into the best part of a dog's nature, like

1300
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:56,599
Speaker 1: their sweetness, their intelligence, and companionship. They're like gentleness are

1301
01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 1: not only incredibly useful for people and like their animals,

1302
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 1: but it's also something that the dogs enjoy doing, like

1303
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 1: they you know, being friends with a child at a hospital,

1304
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 1: or being friends with a colony of little penguins and

1305
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 1: getting love and and getting positive attention for being loving,

1306
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 1: like these are all wonderful things. So like there are

1307
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,560
Speaker 1: ways that dogs can you know, have this role to

1308
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: play in society that's so positive and so incredible, and

1309
01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 1: it's just I don't know, I think that is that

1310
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: should be cherished and any time like a dog is

1311
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: used for violence and a dog is you know, it's

1312
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:40,160
Speaker 1: like you know you are you are a weapon. That's

1313
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:47,600
Speaker 1: just it's so wrong. Yeah, well I agree. Um No,

1314
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: I definitely do into heaven. Get those dogs into heaven. Um.

1315
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 1: I really love dogs, I think. Um, I am an atheist,

1316
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 1: so I don't believe in souls, but I feel like

1317
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: my dog was part of mine. Um So, I just

1318
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: feel like they have so much to offer. They're just

1319
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,680
Speaker 1: these pure little creatures. Um, and I do. I just

1320
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: want to refocus on the victims of the violence, you know,

1321
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 1: like I beyond the animals, Like just we we are

1322
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: more aware than ever of how awful the system is

1323
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 1: and how we want to remove these pieces of architecture

1324
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 1: that have um systematically oppressed people first and tortured and

1325
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 1: killed people for so long. Um. This is uh, this

1326
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 1: is another like a huge risk factor. Um. That's that's

1327
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 1: hurting minorities, black people especially. Um. So yeah, thank you

1328
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 1: so much, thank you joining me today. Um and thank

1329
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 1: you to Joel as well. UM. So yeah, do you

1330
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:58,639
Speaker 1: have anything to plug? Yes, So, a couple of things.

1331
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 1: I am working on volunteer engineering a low cost ventilator

1332
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: for developing countries. Um. It's open source, which is incredible.

1333
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:10,760
Speaker 1: And we are respiro works, so r E s p

1334
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: I r A works everywhere. Um, we're like Respira dot

1335
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 1: works is our our website and you can do slash

1336
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:19,880
Speaker 1: donate if you'd like to donate because we are a

1337
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 1: nonprofit and it's just a bunch of volunteers. Were like

1338
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 1: applying for grants and stuff. But that's going towards the

1339
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,639
Speaker 1: ventilator itself and getting it out there. UM. I also

1340
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:32,519
Speaker 1: have started a mailing list and it's got uh. I

1341
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,040
Speaker 1: sent it out twice a week. It's got action items

1342
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: events like today's the or this is Monday. I don't

1343
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: know when this is going out, but there's like a

1344
01:21:40,439 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 1: budget city council meeting stuff like that. UM. Things to

1345
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: people to call to demand justice, petitions to sign, go

1346
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 1: fund me, these places to donate, black businesses to support

1347
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: black abolitionists, Instagrams to follow. Um. You know, like we

1348
01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 1: have a book club, we have a movie club. Um,

1349
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 1: just to educate ourselves to unlearn the terrible, terrible teaching

1350
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: of history that we learned. UM. And so yeah, so

1351
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: d m me or email me. I'm Paula V. Ganlin.

1352
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 1: P A l l A v I g u n

1353
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: A l a n. That's Paula Vignal in everywhere. That's

1354
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 1: my Instagram, my Twitter, my Facebook, my TikTok. I'm on there.

1355
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 1: That's I don't know how to make that activist. I'm

1356
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:31,920
Speaker 1: figuring that out, but but yeah, you can d M

1357
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: me or email me Polo viganol in Comedy at gmail

1358
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: dot com to get on this mailing list or the

1359
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: the The link to the drive is in my bios.

1360
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think we'll also probably put that

1361
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:44,679
Speaker 1: in the footnotes too. Yeah. Yeah, And you can find

1362
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at Creature feat Pod. That's f e

1363
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,759
Speaker 1: a T, not f e e T. That's something very different.

1364
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: On Instagram creature feature pod. Um. I am Katie Golden

1365
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and you know, I just my Katie thoughts

1366
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 1: on there. Um And as always, I am also pro

1367
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: bird writes where I you know, I make the case

1368
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 1: that birds should be in charge of stuff. And I'm

1369
01:23:11,080 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 1: certainly a human being and not a bunch of birds

1370
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 1: in a lady suit. That would be that'd be weird.

1371
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: I think you, I think you lost a feather. That's

1372
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 1: that's that's not that's that's from a pillow, that's from

1373
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:28,840
Speaker 1: a pillows nothing. Thank you to the Space Classics for

1374
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 1: their super awesome song ex Alumina. Creature features a production

1375
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts like the one

1376
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:39,560
Speaker 1: you just heard, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

1377
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: diheart Radio website, or hey, guess what wherever you're listening

1378
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,720
Speaker 1: to it on right now? You know, like clearly you've

1379
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,960
Speaker 1: got something that you're listening to some platform you can

1380
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 1: use that too, or anything, just anywhere, you know. Thank

1381
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 1: you guys so much for listening, and I will see

1382
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 1: you next Wednesday