WEBVTT - Dan Penn 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.520 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.840 I guess today is truly legendary Dan Penn known as 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:21.840 a songwriter, a singer, a player, a producer. Dan. So 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.759 great to have you on here. Good to be here, Bob. Okay, 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.520 so you have a new album that comes out. You know, 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.919 normally I'm against type in general, but I've been listening 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:39.319 to the album and it's really good. Okay, that's strange. Well, 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:41.560 I had an era where there's so much crap out there. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.440 Let's start from the beginning. The album is called Living 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.880 on Mercy. What made you decide to actually record it? Oh? 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:53.040 Just uh, I wasn't doing anything else and this, you know, 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.320 had a kind of a low here in the studio. 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.600 And uh so I thought, well, you know, I still saying, 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.040 so my re all making me on record. Hadn't made 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:07.480 one in a long time. So, uh, just Spooner and 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.920 I going to Japan and made made a few bucks 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:13.600 and came back. I said, I'll just spend that on 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:18.800 my record, and and so I started and uh, you know, 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.560 we just kept going. Okay, let's stop for a second here. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.200 When did Spooner and you go to Japan? We went 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.800 here before last, I believe was it was the last time. 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.000 So he went, we went over and played four or 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:36.160 five shows. How does something like that come together? Well, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:42.200 this uh, this uh fellow who was a motor you 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.920 called me, he calls better, he called me, and we 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.760 got together on price and he brought us so and 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:55.280 you know, wasn't anything strange, but it did work out 0:01:55.400 --> 0:02:00.760 really good. And you know what he had was one 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.560 of the best things in the world. You know, when 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.080 you go to get on a plane or when you 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.960 get off, there said somebody with a wheelchair to wheel 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:14.000 you to the next to the next gate. So we 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:19.120 got wheeled all around Japan and all over America. So 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:24.639 the wheelchair was you know, I'll never fly without it. Now, 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.600 speaking to that, as we're all getting up in years, 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.320 how is your mobility and health? Well, it's like all 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.480 the people who are seventy eight years old. I wake 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.920 up with new little things every day sometimes, but you know, 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.560 in general, I still get around pretty good. My ballot 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.760 saying as good as it was. Um, I've got other 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.200 problems in other areas, but overall, in general, I feel 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.920 pretty good. So I felt good enough to make that 0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:00.880 CD record and I hope I can. If they'll get 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:02.959 this COVID thing done, maybe I could get out and 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:07.080 do a few shows. And to what degree are you quarantining? 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.600 I'm here, but if I need to go to the grocery, 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.640 I'll go. I put on a mask, I go where 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.280 I got to. You know, I'll quarantine you. I've never 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.839 called it that. I've never considered that's what I was doing, 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.800 but I guess that's what we're all doing. So but 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.000 if I'll go, do what I gotta do, and I'll 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.280 wear the mask and get the stuff and bring it home. 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.080 But pretty soon I'll go back to Alabama. We got 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.520 a place in Alabama. We just came back up here 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.880 from Alabama to get to take Linda to the doctors. 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:48.600 She had to have a pacemaker put in, so I 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.720 had to bring Harry and to do that. And I'm 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:56.520 doing a few interviews like with you. I've got one more, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.720 and then we're back to Aliba, Emma, and down here 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.400 we're just out in the country. So quarantine, we don't 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.040 even consider that word. But I know everybody is having 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:13.120 to do what they gotta do. Okay, I can see 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:17.200 in the video here there's a tape machine behind you. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.880 So you have a studio there in your home in Nashville, Yes, Sue, 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:26.240 I've got a I've got a basement studio. Almost everybody 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.479 in a music basis has got a studio somewhere in 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:33.479 their house some kind. And this one's been here now 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.520 for what wrong about twenty years? About twenty years and 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:40.760 it's pretty nice. I mean I fixed it up pretty nice, 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:45.960 maybe two nice, you know, but I enjoyed. I can 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:48.320 come down here at midnight, you know, with my Jamie's 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.800 and work on the song, or work on the tape 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:59.600 that's already recorded. H you know, just keep it. It's 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.520 a good to have some way you go remake something 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.160 real fast. Or you know, once you leave the studio, 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:12.279 you're in your budgets right out. You can't you can't 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.480 do no more. But if you've got your own studio, 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.360 the budget never runs out. You can just keep on mixing. 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.719 That's what I wanted to do with do right mayn 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:27.000 back in the n is and but the budget was out, 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.440 we had to stop. I would have liked to have 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.560 done some more, but you know how it is. Okay. 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.680 So what do you have in that studio? I mean, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.640 I see the tape machine. What other kind of equipment. Well, 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.880 there's a there's an old m C I board here 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.680 six Uh, there's a sixteen track two inch over there. 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:53.160 There's some HD twenty four digital recorders, and there's a 0:05:54.480 --> 0:06:02.159 there's a Harrison mixed bus, a digit of mixer, and 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.440 that's what we used on this record. We mixed it 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.120 through that Harrison. Okay, so you tend to read in 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.760 this album to record the tapered record digitally, the recorded 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.480 digitally in both places, I believe they were both proteos. 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.240 So we did that number and then we brought it 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.359 back here to my place, and we uh fixed a 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:26.880 few things and and overdub some things and mixed everything. 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.000 And uh, is it your room big enough to cut 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.680 or is it basically a mixing room? It's big enough 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.200 to cut four or five people, But we didn't cut here. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:43.640 My board, my console was having some crackling problems. And uh, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:46.560 I called a friend, buzz Case and who owns creative 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:54.560 workshop here studio and uh, really good studio, and he said, yeah, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.279 come on in. So I wonder over there and cut. 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.000 Three days we cut half album. I took a little 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.320 to break, but maybe a lot. And I tried to 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:07.200 get everybody else back together, and you know, you just 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.520 couldn't do it. Everybody's running here and there in the 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.120 studio would being booked. You know, I couldn't make it 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:16.000 land up. So I called them a guy and muscle 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:21.080 shows or Sheffield, Alabama at the nuthouse and I was 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:26.440 I was able to uh to land everybody uh down 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.680 at the nuthouse. And so we finished it that. We 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.480 tracked the rest of the tracks three more days, and 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.960 men bought it all back here and started, uh, you know, 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.080 looking at it pretty hard and what do we need 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.240 to do and stuff like that. Now, now the vocals 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.200 came off the floor with the band. I didn't. I 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:51.760 didn't redo the vocals. So I fixed a couple of places, 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:58.880 but very small places. Okay. So in today's music business, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.400 what are your expectations for a new recording where we 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:09.240 have streaming dominates there, I'm team tracks that aren't even 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.960 listened to on Spotify. It's so different from when you 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.640 started out and when I started out. So what's it 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.080 like in your mind making a record knowing how hard 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.920 it is to reach the audience. I don't really know, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.480 you know that that that's not my part I was saying, 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.840 I play they sail, so I don't really know how 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.320 that works. I don't know anything about downloading. Uh, you know, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.720 I'm a CD man. I don't even know anything about 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.680 But they say they're gonna put this on VINOYL so 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.000 you know, so be it. I got a record players 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:44.640 to you, so I'll listen to it. But I really 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.440 like c ds. You know. They say I'm just like 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:52.080 the studio, and that's fine with me. But these kids, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.960 you know, they've got other ideas. Okay, let's go back 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.840 to the beginning. You're from Alabama, yes, sir. And you know, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.480 especially Northerners like myself, if they've even been to the South, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.080 they don't really know much about it. So we're in Alabama. 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.760 Did you grow up? I grew up in a little 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:15.400 town called Vernon, Vernon, Alabama. And where is that that's 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:22.040 down between Tuscaloosa, Alabama road tide. You know, it's between 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.199 there and uh in Columbus, Mississippi, right on the state 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:30.840 line Mississippi Alabama state line, halfway down in the state. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.760 And uh, you grew up? How many kids in the 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:42.320 family I had? I had three sisters. I've got one 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.400 left and where are you in the hierarchy oldest youngest, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:51.440 I'm I got one sister older. I had one sister older, 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:56.120 and I'm next, and then I had I've got Peggy left, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.800 and my baby's sister Vicky got killed in a car 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:06.040 rash and save me nine, So just being my sister. Okay, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.040 So what did your parents do for a living back 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:12.640 in there in Vernon. Well, first they were farmers, and 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.200 he was a farmer, mother he was she was a 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:20.280 farmer too. They had caught and all that stuff, and 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.280 didn't they About forty nine they started working at the 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:28.240 government plant in Columbus, which is thirty miles away, and 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:34.480 so they worked, and government plants in that part of 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.840 the country just took over. They were in every little 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.440 town and everybody had a job and everybody might, you know, 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:45.559 some money, and that's what raised us all, really, except 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:49.199 for the crops that were there before. And so they 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:53.719 made men's trousers and then he worked in that the 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.880 ship of department, and mother worked in something there. So 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.480 you know, that's back when money with money, you know, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.120 about thirty five dollars a week was a big paycheck. 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:13.920 So you grew up in Vernon. How many people in Vernon, Oh, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.720 back then, probably not the same now. Maybe a thousand, 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:22.040 maybe fifteen hundred, maybe nine hundred, it's hard to say. 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.640 The surrounding area, it's not a lot of people, but 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.000 it's got a couple of red lacs. It is the 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.760 county seat of Lamar County. And your house that you 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:36.199 say you're going to return to, is that in Vernon, No, sir, 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.080 it's outside of a few miles. That was part of 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:47.360 my wife, Linda's grandparents farmhouse. It's an old farmhouse, over 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.800 a hundred years old, and she was born in the 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:57.040 front room where we sleep, so it's really personal to her. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.240 And it's got the front porches on the hunt and 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.120 I got the back porch on the back, and it's 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.960 got a hallway all the way down through it. So 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:11.240 a very old fashioned and we rebuilt it years ago. Okay, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:14.360 so you're growing up in Vernon. What does your life 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.560 look like you personally? Well, I'm going to school, you 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.880 know a lot. I'm going to high school. I'm going 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:26.520 to grammar school. I started, uh playing a little music, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:33.199 started writing a few little songs, and finally I found 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.800 his place in Solide. That that's ten miles north and 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.199 they're having a square aints the College quarter Aints up there. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.719 But what it really was was a little rock and 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.880 roll show with a few square ains is thrown in. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.800 And so I went up there and started hanging out 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.480 with him and sitting in a little bit with a 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:58.880 band Minnie Kegle and a rhythm Swinsters. He played there. 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.000 He played it was you know, he played the square 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:03.520 dancers with a fiddle and then he played the snare 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.520 with the boat. Very good. Mr. But anyway, one of 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.440 the guys in the band was Billy Sheryl really is, yeah, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:15.280 he was. He was playing electric sacks and he said, 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.600 I hear you write song. Somebody has got to him 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.240 and told him, man he I said, oh yeah, So 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.839 he said play me one. So I played him a song. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.199 He said, why don't you come up to Florence. We've 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.240 got a little studio up that we just might put 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.960 a record of him. Well great, you know, I'm about 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:37.840 seventeen years old. I need a record. So I go 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.000 up there and I put down four or five songs 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.280 that I've written. That's about all I've written. But one 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.439 of the songs was called he was a Bluebird Blue 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.520 and I put it down and came on back home, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.520 and it wasn't too long that I got a call 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.920 from Tom Stafford. He was kind of the head guru 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.080 up there at that little view. It was over his 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:08.000 father's drug store that he had a little studio. And 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.360 he said, Dan, he said, you've got a song on 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:14.199 the charts. No kid, what is that? He said, He's 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.440 a Bluebird blue by Conway Twitty. I said, he cut that? 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.160 He said, he cut it. He said, and it's going 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.760 up the charts. You moved in ten places next week. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.880 And the reason I'm calling he is, is you need 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.400 to sign up with bm I And if you do, 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.160 since you're moving that much next week, they'll they'll frought 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.440 you some money. Do you need some money? I said, yes, sir. 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.440 He said how much you need? I said seven hundred bucks. 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.360 He said, I've seend it right on down. Well what that? 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.440 What that number? How I came up seven hundred dollars 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:57.080 I had. I had been down to my uncle Ruben's place. 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.080 He would live just right by us in the country, 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:05.240 and he had to rebuilt the nineteen four Chevrolet. He 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.280 had put a V eight in it and everything. You 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.280 couldn't tell it that anything had ever been done to it, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:13.680 and I tried to buy it. I said, don't agree 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.680 with why you take this car. He said, it ain't 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.720 for sale. Really, no, it ain't for sale. I knew 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.600 he used it would sell anything, you know. But so 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.000 I said, well, well, if you're gonna send it, reckon 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.040 what you'd have to have. Now, this is back when 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.720 a hundred dollars was a lot of money. And I said, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.560 what what do you think you'd have to have if 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.200 you was gonna send it? He thought of that, he said, 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.040 he knew I didn't have any money. I'm just a country. 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.280 Bought that and he said, ah, if I was gonna 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.520 send it, I'd have to have something like seven hundred dollars. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.040 So I went on and I got and I blew. 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.920 I got that call, you know, And so I go back, 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:54.960 I get my check in, I cash it. I go 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:57.560 back down to Uncle Ruben and I say, I mean, 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.520 how are you damn what? What's what's he up to? 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.720 I said, oh, I just came after the cheval Alcorim 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.080 and he said what Chevron? I said, this one part 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.800 right here? He said, I told you it wasn't for sale. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.440 I said, yeah, but you also said, but if she's 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.760 going to said it. You might take seven hundred dollars 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.640 for it. He said, I say that. I said, I 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:21.360 I thought you did. But I said, but if you 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.880 don't want to send it, that's okay. But I started 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.040 putting my money out by that time, you know, not 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.840 kind of showed you my money and shuffling around a 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.360 little bit. And he looked at me, and he looked 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.280 at that car, and you look at that money. You 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.440 go around and around. Finally grabbed that money. He said, 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:43.840 I'm a man of my word. So I got my car. Um. 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.080 They didn't pay me much for the song, but I 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.880 did make some b and by okay, a couple of questions. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:54.280 Did that car treat you right? As a beautiful car? 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.080 I didn't treat it right. You know, I'm very young 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:03.479 and very crazy. I made and I have to say, uh, 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.840 it treated me rod it it never but you got wrong. 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:12.879 I'm okay. Yeah, I told the chrome off. Uncle Ribbon 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.560 had fixed it up some knives. It was a little 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.760 two tin forward door, had the little had the little hubcaps. 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.199 Uh you could drave it. You never think he had 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.680 a V eight But it was a brand new fit 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.240 to six V eight with overdrive up here and it 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:34.720 was sweet, sweet sweet, and I started hot rodding and 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.159 pulling this off and taking that off, and changing his 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.600 and changing that. Finally one not the hood blew up 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.440 in despair. I traded it off. So wish I wish 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:50.200 I had a kick it? Well, certainly today, let's go back. Also, okay, 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:54.960 was there music in the house. What inspired you to play? Well? Yeah, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:00.280 we had we had daddy. Daddy had a guitar and 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.240 he was playing it all my life. You know, I 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.360 could hear him playing it, and sometimes you know he's 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.560 saying stuff like prawl line frae, you know those old 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:16.720 Jimmy what's his name, Jimmy Rogers, Jimmy Rodgers, those kind 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.040 of songs. He would do those kind of songs. And 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.120 sometimes he would have electric guitar player coming in from 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:26.320 like Winfrey that's like thirty miles to the east somewhere 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.640 like that. There was a guy had a black electric guitar. Wow, 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:33.560 you know that was something else, and he'd played with Daddy, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.240 and then my school teacher played fiddling. He'd play with Daddy's. 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.240 But there was front poet all the way. You know, 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.560 they never played a gig. They just played on the 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.200 front poet or the black poet, and they enjoyed music. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.480 And Daddy was he was a song leader of the church. 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.800 Mother was a piano player in the church, and so 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:59.399 I had music all around. And when I got about nine, 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.159 he bought me a little silver tongue guitar, and I 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.400 would said when they played, and I trying to try 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.080 to be a musician too, but I couldn't play the chord. Finally, 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.520 when I got about fifteen, I got Daddy to show 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:22.560 me open chords at least. And so when I when 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:26.080 I got them up a little bit, I started playing 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.520 his Gibson something. It was a lot nicer, you know. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:31.840 I believe it's a forty nine. He bought it new, 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:37.680 and so I don't know, maybe about nineteen fifty six 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.359 or seven he gave it to me, gave me to 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:46.800 Gibson maybe Ala Jambo Boy. It was sweet, and I 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:48.439 had it in the trunk of my car and I 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.960 came to Nashville. I got got to took out of 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:58.720 my car, so I wish I could find that one. Right, Okay, 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.320 So you're first instriment is the guitar. What inspires you 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:08.200 to write songs? Well, what inspires me is what's always. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.080 It's the fact that I'm going to make a commitment, 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.120 whether it's to myself or to somebody else. I could 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:17.880 if me and Spooner are gonna get together, or men 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.480 or somebody else if we get together, I ain't a commitment. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:27.200 I may not have anything. There's no inspiration yet, there's nothing. 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.440 Maybe maybe I'll have an idea. But you know, I 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:34.600 call a songwriter sessions when I don't even have anything. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.439 I just always pray, Lord, if you can't give it 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.959 to me, give it to him. And and you know, 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.439 usually somebody walk in with something, either an idea or 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.280 they can just sit down on a pin and play 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.840 the right chord. And I'm often running. I make a 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:58.639 commitment on spot to write a song today. And you 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.720 know we used to do okay, But back when you 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.800 were a kid, what inspired you to write songs? All? 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.440 Just the idea that I wanted to write a song. 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.280 I don't know. You know, I remember I plowed a 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.920 muw daddy. When Daddy went to work at that plant. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.760 He uh about me. When I was nine years old. 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.720 He he sold his two new left fit. He had 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.560 all the plows and the muse and he farmed, but 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.040 when he went to work the plant, he decided he 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.960 would get me a one MW up fit and keep 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:32.919 me busy. He didn't want me to to go wrong, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.720 you know, so he wanted to keep me busy. So 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.720 you know what was the question? Question is when did 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.119 you start writing songs? And what was the inspiration for that? Yeah? Okay, 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:45.800 so I would hear Hank Williams on the radio and 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.600 other people on the on the radio, and while I 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.639 was plowed, I couldn't remember exactly the words. So I remember, 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.720 I remember making up words to John Buloh. Well, you know, 0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.880 I could make up my own words when I when 0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:04.240 I ran out, I couldn't remember. I still can't remember lyrics. 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.000 But that's the first thing I remember about writing a song. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.560 I can't remember the other first part I don't. I 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.359 can't remember. Well, let me ask you this. Did you 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:23.200 have a dream of making music your life as a career. No, 0:22:23.359 --> 0:22:26.760 I can't say I did. I was. I was. I 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:32.040 was too young. But you know a long about my teens, 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:36.560 early teens. You know, I started here in l A. C. 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.320 John Are and all these guys playing black music, and 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.439 that really parked my ears. I mean I. I was 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:49.960 used to church music. I would saying with oh Daddy 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:52.800 and him into church. But when I heard the Black Stuff, 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.480 it was different, you know, and it's like kind of hip. 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:00.400 My switch on a little bit. And men, here comes 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:04.160 to Elvis and all those guys, Jerry Lee and Elvis 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.720 and Charlie Rich and all those fifties guys. I really 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:12.280 loved all that, but then they always started making old 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.240 movies and I kind of fell out of that that 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:18.359 deal right there. I didn't much like that anymore for 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.680 a while. And then here comes Ray, Charles, and Ray 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:27.200 turned us all along. He turned on every Southern singer 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.479 and we all wanted to sound just like Ray. And 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.720 I could sound pretty much like Ray. Ah, I could 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:39.320 sound like Ray and Jane Bryan and Bobby Blue Blaine. 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.240 But one night in Birmingham, Alabama, after my show I 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:46.439 was playing six nights a week, I went to another 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:49.440 club that stayed open later and I walked in and 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:51.680 here's the guy up there playing will Be three and 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:57.840 his name is Charles Ray and he saund exactly like Rachel. 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:01.800 I said, my love, you know where. So this is 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:08.480 a lucid proposition. So one long after that that I 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:11.000 got in with fame and I started looking for my 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:16.080 own voice. Okay, A couple of questions on the Conway 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.320 Twitty song. Did they take any of the ownership or 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:23.320 do you own all the publishing on that? Well, that's 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:29.840 a Actually I never got paid for the poishtion and 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:33.560 I think the game Conway of the post and I 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:38.000 don't I'm not sure. But anyway, you know, I just 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.240 let it go. I said, Hey, I got my b 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:42.880 M I got my door over in the music business. 0:24:43.800 --> 0:24:46.520 It's okay. I mean, I don't like to have all 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.000 the money, but you know, you don't get everything all 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:52.879 the time. And so. But it wasn't but about a 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.320 dozen years ago that my friend Donnie Fritz, who just 0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:01.240 passed away, Uh, come to me and Danny said, Dan, 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:06.320 I've got the publish into Bluebird. He said, I'm gonna 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.679 give it to you. I said, okay, give it to him. 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:14.359 So he signed over to him, and uh, so that's 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:19.800 come home. Of course, there's nothing happening, but I got it. 0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:24.720 You know. Okay, before you beat Billy Sheryl, how much 0:25:24.720 --> 0:25:27.520 are you gigging around? You're talking about playing six seven 0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:31.359 nights a week. Were you doing that frequently that's a 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:35.840 little bit later than okay. So after after the Conway 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:38.679 twitty hit and after you get the car, what's your 0:25:38.720 --> 0:25:44.639 next move? Well, you know, I was playing a lot 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:46.560 of little high school gigs. But I had a little 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:49.560 high school band. I had a piano player and a 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:52.439 guitar player and the drummer, and so we played some 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:57.360 has to hops and stuff around. After I got the car, 0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:02.520 started date my wife and who came out to Linda, 0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:13.160 Linda Pounders, and later we married. And but it's hard 0:26:13.200 --> 0:26:15.640 to say, you know, I just did the teenage stuff. 0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:20.920 So how did you end up going to fame? Well 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:24.240 it was Billis Sheryl. He said, play me a song. 0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.760 He said, we've got a studio up in Florence. From 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:29.520 what we might cut a record on you. When I 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:33.760 went up and I put these songs down and and 0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:36.719 then went on with the car thing and everything, and 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:39.280 somewhere along there, I was playing six nights a week. 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.640 I was I was drinking a bit. You know. My 0:26:42.640 --> 0:26:46.320 mother didn't care for that. Uh, I ain't came in 0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:49.920 from Dallas, Texas. She said, let me have him send 0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:52.439 him over here, let him stay with me. He'll get 0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:55.160 a job we'll we'll see what we can do with him. 0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:57.080 So I did. I went to Dallas. We're in the 0:26:57.119 --> 0:27:01.720 Fit four show, and I got a job at Coach 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:04.960 Barry Him. I was a mail or a clerk like 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:12.880 my daddy, and so um they went along real good. 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.840 I've worked in that place about a couple of months. 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:20.560 I was doing okay, pretty good, pretty good hand. I 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:25.840 reckon they they seem to like me. And it was winter, 0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:29.680 and Dallas is cold in the winter. So I drive 0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:31.840 my fit for ship right down to the parking lot. 0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:34.720 Then I had to walk over to the coach Barry 0:27:34.840 --> 0:27:38.119 Him and which was not too far, but enough to 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:43.080 get you cold. And so anyway, I'm I'm working. I'm working, 0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:46.639 And I started dating a little girl out there, and 0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:51.280 we ended up in a little dairy queen or something 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:54.880 like that. One night we started to get a comb 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:57.360 or something, you know, and and I'm sitting on these 0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:00.479 two little guys a lot younger than me, out on 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:03.080 the sidewalk. They had a little guitar amp and a 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:07.000 little electric guitar and a mike, and they were singing 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.560 employee and having a big time. And all of a sudden, 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:14.600 I got so lonely for the music business, and I 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:16.960 just wanted to sing something. I gotta had. Asked the guy, 0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:18.600 I said, you mind about playing you get tart? I 0:28:18.600 --> 0:28:21.600 want to say one song. He said, no, that's fan. 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:24.840 So I sang a song. I got back in my car. 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.840 I took that girl home. I turned in my notice. 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:32.080 I said, okay, that's it. They's see the music or nehew. 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:38.240 So I came back to Alabama and married Lindon and 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:43.200 you know it, and I went to Fame. Right after that. 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.880 I went to Fame and I asked her just give me. 0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:48.960 I went the muscle shows, and I asked around about Rick, 0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:55.800 because Rick was always the one ricka Ricka, and so 0:28:55.920 --> 0:28:59.320 I asked about Rick and his father in law. He said, well, 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:02.680 he's down in the studio. I said, what worries that 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:04.760 he's told me? And I went down there and I 0:29:04.760 --> 0:29:08.880 found Rick. Rick was one of the people in that 0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:12.120 studio up there at Tom Stafford, so it was Billy 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:15.840 Rick and Tom stuff. So anyway, I find Rick. Now 0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:18.120 this is a few years later, maybe two years later, 0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:22.440 after you better move on, he had already cut that 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:25.800 on the author And so I found Rick walking around 0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:29.040 on his cement pad. I said, hey, Rick, what's you doing? 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.840 He said, I'm building my studio, he said. The next 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:35.320 thing I was mouth. He said, why don't you come 0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:38.400 to work for me? I said doing what? And he 0:29:38.440 --> 0:29:42.240 said writing song? Because he knew I had as a 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:44.800 bluebird blue and there wasn't too many kids walking around 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:47.440 and had a hit at my age. I said, what's 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:53.120 that page? He said twenty five bucks a week. So 0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:55.520 so that was a lot of money back then, don't 0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:57.840 you know? It seemed like nothing now? But twenty five 0:29:57.960 --> 0:30:00.000 week plus I played on the weekend, I made an 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.320 another fifty. Hey, I'd make it seventy five bucks. Of course, 0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:05.760 I didn't get home with much of it, because, like 0:30:05.800 --> 0:30:10.880 I said, I was drinking. But anyway, i'd go down 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:14.200 to the garden one day that I told I told daddy. 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:16.200 I said, Daddy, I'm moving to Florence. And he said 0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:18.600 that what are you gonna do? I said, I'm gonna 0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:22.840 write songs. He said, uh, I don't know nothing about 0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:26.240 writing songs, son, he said, but if you, if you 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:28.520 want to, i'd get you on where I'm working making 0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:31.560 the same thing. I'm I'm making forty dollars a week, 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:36.040 I said, daddy, you might a hold on to that job. 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:38.720 I may need you, but right now I gotta go 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:43.120 give this a try. Listen, I understand, go do it. 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:47.360 So I didn't went to mood to Florence, and it 0:30:47.440 --> 0:30:50.320 took me five years. I mean, we go up plenty 0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:53.480 of good songs in those five years, but it took 0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:55.920 five years to get the time your puppet, which was 0:30:55.960 --> 0:31:02.200 a big head. And you know, I was always doubtful 0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:05.880 up until that point about all this songwriting and stuff. 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:10.240 So after that, I said, Okay, you're a songwriter. Don't 0:31:10.280 --> 0:31:13.600 look back, keep on going. And That's what I've done. 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:22.560 I've just kept on triding alone. Okay, so you're he 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:25.560 built the studio, you're a songwriter. For those five years 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.320 other than writing songs, you do anything else at the studio? 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.320 Do you play, do you cleaned, you worked the board? 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:36.840 Or you just a songwriter? Well it all came down 0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:41.320 and around sixty four the band that Rick had in 0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:45.920 the studio was David Briggs and Huttingham and Jerry Carried 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:49.719 that also happened to be Dan Penn and Apolar Bears. 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.840 We we we traveled in a hearse and we went 0:31:53.880 --> 0:31:58.600 to all these fraternity parties at Alabama and Auburn, Missippi State, 0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:02.320 all around the South, and we played those every weekend. 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.640 And all of a sudden, these guys were great. Now 0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:07.320 they were a great band, and they were great in 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:09.600 the studio. But all of a sudden they got a 0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:13.200 call from somebody up here in Nashville and they wanted 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:17.800 them to come to Nashville to be, uh be the 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:22.680 session players, the new Bunch. So then they went to Nashville. 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:26.120 And I'm sitting in my car looking at the doorway 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:30.120 of Fame and and I'm kind of I'm kind of 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.760 kind of sad, you know. And I'm sitting there and 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:36.560 I'm thinking, what have you got to be sad about 0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:40.960 there at the door. Why don't you just walk through 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:46.520 that door and learn everything you can about studio, about songwriting, 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:51.400 about record production, about engineering. Don't you learn all you 0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:56.840 can about that and keep on writing songs. And so 0:32:56.840 --> 0:32:58.880 that's what I do. Walked in there, and I started. 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:04.200 I started hanging out other people's sessions, like the people 0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.840 from Atlanta would come in Tommy Road, the town's people 0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:10.920 like that. And I was a gopher, you know, I 0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:12.960 didn't have anything on the session, but I'd say, you 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:16.280 need cigarettes, you want some burgers, I go get them, 0:33:16.360 --> 0:33:18.680 and suddenly I was part of the session, you know. 0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:22.520 So so I started watching everything I could have sobered 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:29.040 it and and it was quite a lot. And you know, 0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.360 that's that's what makes me what I am. I mean, 0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:36.560 I know how to do that apart. Okay, so how 0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:40.240 does I'm your puppet come together? Well? I just bought 0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:44.640 a little twelve string Stella guitar. Never had one before that. 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:47.560 I bought one, little little brown one, had a sweet 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:50.440 little sound. And you know, we have spent a way 0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:52.560 over the studio right and fixing it right, and I 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.320 just break out that little stella and I started ding 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:58.480 ding ding ding ding dinging, and he starts throwing cowords 0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.240 out of me. Thanks thing. I know, I'm singing about 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:05.080 a little puppet because it sounded that way, and it 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:12.960 was called the puppet. Strange, we get you. I'm the puppet. Okay. 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:15.120 So it's the puppet all the way through. And I've 0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:21.360 always like things that were called the the letter the puppet. Anyway, 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:25.960 these guys, these guys go up to James and Bubby 0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:30.879 purified Dan Shoulder brought them to fame, and I get 0:34:30.880 --> 0:34:34.279 the gig. By this time, I'm the second engineer, and 0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:37.279 so I'm engineering on I'm Your Puppet with the Pure 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:42.279 Fire Brothers. And they had going upstairs like many artists did, 0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:45.400 and found on a song and they kind of changed 0:34:45.440 --> 0:34:47.480 it around a little bit, you know, they put they 0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:50.680 put it I'm your Puppet. Think they took it up 0:34:50.719 --> 0:34:54.000 about a click or two on the speed. I wasn't 0:34:54.040 --> 0:34:57.320 real crazy about all that. I thought, well, they're missing 0:34:57.400 --> 0:34:59.399 with my song. You know, when you're young, you don't 0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:04.000 want anybody playing around with your music. Uh. Later I 0:35:04.040 --> 0:35:09.800 found out everybody does. But anyway, I engineered the record, 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:12.279 and you know, I didn't thank too much of it. 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:14.719 Later it came out on the radio. I heard it, 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:18.120 said him, great, I thought. Then when they sent me 0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:26.439 a check, I said, that's my favorite version. Okay. So 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:30.520 how do you meet Spooner Roldham, same little place I 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:34.280 met everybody I met? I met all the Paul Bear's 0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:38.520 Rick band, I met Spinner, I met Fritz, I met 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:42.040 everybody that I ever met in muscle shows at that 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:46.239 little studio up there, uh Tom Stafford's little place. It 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:49.799 was called spar Music. So I met Spinner up there 0:35:49.840 --> 0:35:55.920 and he was laid back cat me and Donnie Fritz 0:35:55.960 --> 0:36:00.759 and wrote a couple of songs and Spinner. I've seen 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:02.720 him play it, and I heard him play it, and 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:05.680 I like the way he played. And we became pretty 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:09.799 good friends. And we started hanging out right and sun 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:15.719 and you know, sometimes we'd write two songs to night. 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:21.480 Sometimes two out of two was pretty good. Sometimes you 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:27.120 didn't get anything, but most times we did. So I 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:31.480 met him way back there. Okay, when you were writing 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:34.920 all these songs, that theme was anybody cutting them and 0:36:34.960 --> 0:36:37.160 they were stiffs, or you just cut demos and nothing 0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:41.600 happened to him, basically that cut demos and nothing happened. 0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:46.359 You know, I said, we're righting all these songs pour 0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:49.759 nights a week, you might say, and so let's just 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:53.319 say what average two songs. That's eight songs. That's eight 0:36:53.320 --> 0:36:57.840 songs a week. We ended up with like a hundred 0:36:57.880 --> 0:37:01.879 two songs, you know, and at that point not too 0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:04.960 many people were coming. I mean, you know, some of 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.640 Tummy Road cut on here. Well, we got a backside 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:14.520 on everybody, Everybody's got the Blue. We had one called 0:37:14.600 --> 0:37:18.640 sorry I'm Late Lisa. Not a very good song, but hey, 0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:25.920 my politics because we were in Rick House, uh production company. 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.520 We got the cut. That's the way things happened in 0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:31.280 the music business. You know, you get a cut because 0:37:31.320 --> 0:37:34.520 somebody knows somebody or you know somebody and they like 0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:36.360 you and they look kind of like your song and 0:37:36.360 --> 0:37:39.359 they want to hip you out. So we we got 0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.840 cuts like that, We got backsides and we gotta we 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:46.400 gotta Joe Simon cutter too, Let's do it over. It 0:37:46.560 --> 0:37:48.800 wasn't a big record, but it was a good record 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:54.840 and we we we got the puppet and then Percy's 0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:58.680 Sledge came along and cut some of our songs, and 0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:03.399 and then other black artists. So you know, Rick would 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.160 come to me and say, I got this guy I 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:08.760 want to cut next Tuesday. I need something up tempo 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:13.920 or whatever. And so I would go to work and 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.719 sometimes I would tell Splender most time, and I said, 0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:20.000 we need en up tempo for this guy. And we 0:38:20.480 --> 0:38:24.040 would come up with something that he had cut. And 0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:29.880 Wilson Pickett, you know whoever come in to the studio. Uh, 0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:32.920 we got cut so like that, and was Spooner on 0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:39.399 Rick's pay roll too, Yes, he he was also five 0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:42.640 week when we first started, right and he wasn't, but 0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:45.960 Rick sent him a little bit later and we were 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:49.399 both on his play room. Okay, so what's the next 0:38:49.440 --> 0:38:54.800 step after I'm your puppet? Well, a lot of cuts, 0:38:54.840 --> 0:39:00.279 but finally I could say I was a second edge here. 0:39:01.520 --> 0:39:03.919 So so Rick Hall came to me one day and said, 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:09.200 Dan today at two o'clock because he's a black guy 0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:12.839 coming in here to try out. He wants he wants 0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:16.320 me to hear him, and I can't be here. Would 0:39:16.360 --> 0:39:20.600 you put down a tape on him? That's what? So 0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:24.359 around two o'clock here comes Percy Sledge, you I did 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:27.480 not know, and two more guys friends of his, and 0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:32.640 they were dragging to be three organs, complete with Leslie, 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:36.719 and they came into the studio. I threw up a 0:39:36.760 --> 0:39:39.560 few of my action and I cut this one song 0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:44.279 and it was something like all love your baby, and 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:47.440 he had this descending cord line, which is what a 0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:51.640 man love. Well the way it got there with some 0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:54.720 friends of mine, but i'll tell you about that. But anyway, 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:57.920 so I put him down and next day I played 0:39:57.960 --> 0:40:01.239 the tape to Rick. I said, Rick's guys, great, you're here. 0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:03.879 So I played it to him. He said, I don't 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:08.560 think so I said, really, I said, you know what 0:40:08.640 --> 0:40:11.160 like this guy? He said, Now I don't. I don't 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:14.120 hear it. Dan, I don't hear it. And I said, 0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:17.640 let me tell him I want to produce him. I 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:23.200 don't do that either. And at that point, you know, 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:27.359 I'm young. I'm trying to take a step further. I've 0:40:27.400 --> 0:40:29.480 done everything I can do in the studio. Sup I 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:34.400 hadn't produced any records. So you know, my little brain 0:40:34.480 --> 0:40:36.880 starts clicking along. About that time, I run into a 0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:41.160 guy named Chip's moment and h he had a studio 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:43.840 of Memphis. I went up feel a little been a 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:47.160 few days with him and who became good friends. And 0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:50.520 my contract was coming to an end. He had a studio, 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:56.319 and so I went to Memphis to go to work 0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:59.960 for American studios right, and I went to have a cause. 0:41:00.040 --> 0:41:02.800 I thought I could produce a record. And I added 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:05.960 him in my in my mind, in my heart that 0:41:06.040 --> 0:41:09.080 I was going to cut ahead. Don't ask me how 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:12.000 I know these things, but back then I knew. I 0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:15.279 just new things sometimes, you know, And I knew I 0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:21.440 was gonna cut ahead. And so I told Jips, me 0:41:21.480 --> 0:41:24.640 and him I'd gone around co producing, so to speak 0:41:24.680 --> 0:41:28.080 some stuff, and but basically he was cutting it and 0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:30.879 I was doing, oh yeah, I don't know about that. 0:41:31.920 --> 0:41:34.759 And finally I told him, I said, look, I want 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:36.719 to cut a record by myself. I don't want you 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:41.320 anywhere around or nobody else. I'm going to cut ahead. 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:44.959 He looked at the kind of funny he said, okay, 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:47.400 I said, give me your worst startist. I don't care it, 0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:51.360 don't have to be anybody. I was really really putting 0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:53.600 myself out there every time I did that back then, 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:58.200 you know, pretty forward. So he walks. He said, okay, 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:00.880 here's this little group. You can talk to them. So 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:06.280 they came to the studio and they had a regular 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:09.680 little band and they had this vocalist and he was 0:42:09.760 --> 0:42:14.360 carrying on, cussing a little and basically upsetting the vibes 0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:19.240 in the room. And I told their there their manager. 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:25.000 I said, okay, I'll cut him, but bring me another singer. 0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:28.960 I can't work with this guy. So I said, number 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:32.359 four song on this rail, right, he have and learned 0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:36.800 this song, and meet me here back here ten o'clock 0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:41.719 two weeks from saturday. Okay, they go away, and you 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:45.000 know what to do. Get another singer. So the next 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:48.439 that Saturday that they supposed to come. They walked right 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:52.719 in with Alex Shieldon, whom I've never seen or heard of. 0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:57.200 I believe he was right around sixteen years old, and 0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:03.200 he knew the song. He said it meticulously. Just the 0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:05.560 talent right out of the box. You know. It's a 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:09.120 nice guy. We're easy to work with, and you know, 0:43:09.200 --> 0:43:12.560 we cut We cut the letter that day and I 0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:15.880 thought it was a pretty good little record. But my goodness, 0:43:15.920 --> 0:43:18.040 it was one of the records of the years. You know, 0:43:19.440 --> 0:43:23.359 it was quite a quite a time. Okay, how did 0:43:23.360 --> 0:43:27.600 you find the letter? The song? Wayne Carson Chips gave 0:43:27.640 --> 0:43:32.320 me a tape they had, uh Like Wayne Carson, a 0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:35.239 great songwriter, had given him the tape and he had 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:37.360 a lot of songs and I'd heard them all, but 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:42.200 I liked that letter, so I got it from him. 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:47.920 But I picked out the song. And okay, was the 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:52.200 arrangement on the demo, like how you cut it? Well? 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:56.839 The guitar, the little licks on the front, dude down 0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:00.840 there down there that was there Layne had played. But 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:04.120 the but the horns and the strange and the airplane 0:44:04.480 --> 0:44:11.480 I put on airrowin so harfway there Okay. The interesting 0:44:11.520 --> 0:44:15.520 thing is all of Alex Chilton's vocals with the Box Top, 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:19.080 except for maybe Neon Rainbow, are completely different from the 0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:22.520 ones he had with Big Star. His voice was gruffer. 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:26.960 Can you tell us how you got that? Vocal? Just 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:29.040 came out of him. I had nothing to do with it. 0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:31.799 I don't know. I never did hear a Big Star. 0:44:31.840 --> 0:44:33.799 I don't know what they sounded like, but I think 0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:35.759 it was like some of that stuff he played me 0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:38.960 back then. It was kind of like flower Child music. 0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:43.920 It was much softer and uh, kind of hippie music. 0:44:43.960 --> 0:44:47.480 I thought so, so I didn't do any of those 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.879 so so later he did all that with a Big Star, 0:44:51.280 --> 0:44:55.080 but I never heard it. Okay. So the other thing 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:57.720 about the letter, it's one of the shortest hit records 0:44:57.719 --> 0:45:00.520 of all time. Did you real I said when you 0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:04.560 were cutting it? No, I just I just I just 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:07.640 cut how much Wayne had given me. There was a 0:45:07.680 --> 0:45:10.080 minute fifty eight or something I said on his demo, 0:45:10.920 --> 0:45:13.640 and I didn't think much of it. You know, back then, 0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:16.279 we had a we kind of had a wall. We 0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:20.759 to twenty to twenty was you it never need to 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:24.320 go any fur them to twenty All the program directors. 0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:28.279 Anything over to twenty was. I don't know about that, 0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:32.359 but this was a minute fifty eight. I didn't think 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:35.160 much of it. Later I said, that thing ain't but 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:38.040 a minute fifty eight. But you know who that was 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:42.040 a great thing because jocks could play it and in 0:45:42.120 --> 0:45:44.560 a few minutes they could play it again right to 0:45:44.600 --> 0:45:51.319 get paid again. Okay, so you cut it, you immediately 0:45:51.360 --> 0:45:56.040 know it's a hit record. No, Now, I knew it 0:45:56.080 --> 0:45:59.920 was a pretty good record. Chips told me. I plented 0:46:00.040 --> 0:46:02.400 to him one night. He said, we got you a 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:05.080 pretty good little record or pie. And he said, if 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:08.719 you'll take that airplane off, And I said, I got 0:46:08.719 --> 0:46:10.560 me a razor blade. And I picked the type up 0:46:10.600 --> 0:46:13.520 and I said, hey, I'll cut this tape right off 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:16.520 the reel if you don't like it. He said, oh 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:18.480 I like it. I like it. I'm just he said, 0:46:18.520 --> 0:46:21.719 it's your record. I said, thank you, that's exactly red, 0:46:21.760 --> 0:46:25.960 it's my record. So so I got my way, and 0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:29.960 it would have been the same record without the airplane. 0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:33.400 I mean, those guys in Vietnam, you know, when they 0:46:33.480 --> 0:46:38.560 heard that, they just melted. They want to go home. 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:41.759 I don't blame them. So how did the record become 0:46:41.800 --> 0:46:46.520 a hit, well, just overnight almost, you know. Uh, the 0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:50.080 old records picked it up and pressed it and put 0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:52.120 it out. And I don't know how it became a 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.239 hit other than the fact that somebody started playing it 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:58.319 and then somebody else and they started playing It's the 0:46:58.320 --> 0:47:01.560 same old thing, you know, but it got some promotion, 0:47:02.400 --> 0:47:07.400 it was worked on, and uh, I just became a 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:13.719 pretty much overnight. Okay, you mentioned Vietnam. How do you 0:47:13.800 --> 0:47:18.640 get out of go into Vietnam? Well, I had a 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:24.160 little football energy and injury. I told Daddy. I said 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.960 I'm gonna go out for football. And it was math grade. 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:30.600 He said now, he said, you're too little. You will 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.120 get hurt. And I waited about a hundred fift you know. 0:47:34.080 --> 0:47:36.759 I said, now, I'm tough, Daddy, I ain't gonna get hurt. 0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:39.600 He said, yeah, you get hurt. He said, I don't 0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:45.239 want you going out. So I said, okay, So it's 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:47.760 a small town, you know, so word it gets around. 0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:51.719 So I decided to go out for a cheerleader. Now 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:55.600 I didn't not want to be a cheerleader, but I 0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.000 knew Daddy was here about it. So anyway, I went 0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:01.479 out for a cheerleader. I didn't get it. I made 0:48:01.520 --> 0:48:04.040 some arrangements, I forgot my yail. This all kind of 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:07.360 stuff I did to keep from being and surely, but anyway, 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:09.920 when I got home that day, then he said, son, 0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:12.600 He said, come here. He said, if you want to 0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:16.600 play football that bad you know, out there and hit it, 0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:19.560 He said, but you're gonna get hurt. Well I didn't. 0:48:20.280 --> 0:48:21.960 I didn't think much of that. Like I said, I 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:24.959 was tough. I thought, so I go out on the foot. 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.560 We got spring training. So I go out on on 0:48:27.600 --> 0:48:30.239 the field and I picked out the biggest guy out there, 0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:33.160 and I said, I will body will show him the boss. 0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:35.839 So I picked up the biggest guy and we were 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:41.319 doing hit on, hit on, tackling and can't hit me? 0:48:41.480 --> 0:48:45.840 Big guy twice to belease me, he hit me, and 0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:48.120 I felt something kind of gilt, but I didn't think 0:48:48.200 --> 0:48:50.520 much about it because I was tough, you know. So 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.160 I laying back up, and just as I was getting 0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:55.399 back up there and just a boy ready to hit 0:48:55.480 --> 0:48:58.880 him again, I said, I raised up as a coach. 0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:02.399 I think I hurt my arm when I hit this guy. 0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:05.480 I want to go. He was talked. He talked like 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:10.080 that Brooks Johns, he said, catching stax Penticton's infirmary, and 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:13.480 I think he broke his down arm. And sure enough 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:16.839 I had two places, but I broke it up around 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:20.120 the shoulder and down in here too. And they didn't 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:22.839 even want to see me in Montgomery. They just sent 0:49:22.920 --> 0:49:27.480 to They just sent the the X ray in the 0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:30.960 next thing under I didn't have to go that he 0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:40.279 may find. Well, so now you cut the letter, it's 0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:43.440 a gigantic kit. Where does that leave you? In chips 0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:50.120 his eyes and opportunity wise, well, all of a sudden 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:52.840 I had cut the biggest record in American studio. He 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:56.439 didn't much think much of that. He was pretty egotistical 0:49:56.440 --> 0:49:59.280 about his cutting. You know, he was a great producer. 0:49:59.320 --> 0:50:01.719 I just happened to Lucky in Out of the Wire, 0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:04.279 you know, hit record which I said I was going 0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:10.960 to and uh, well, you know, they started cutting a 0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.840 lot of people to him and Tommy Cogbill and I 0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:17.000 would use the studio over at John Fry's. What's that 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:20.719 artist studio that sometimes I have to go there to 0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:24.279 record my stuff the overdub I would I would track 0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:27.600 it American, but sometimes I couldn't get in to do 0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:30.720 what I needed to do, so I would take another studio, 0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:34.880 but it seemed to kind of go downheel from there. 0:50:35.800 --> 0:50:39.319 We h, we just didn't seem to be able to 0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:44.960 reconcile he So anyway, I hung around for a couple 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:48.160 more years and a couple another year. So I just 0:50:48.200 --> 0:50:51.680 decided to build my own studio and to leave. And Uh, 0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:55.200 I think it mostly came from the fact that I'd 0:50:55.200 --> 0:50:58.640 cut ahead. It was bigger than any of he is 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:04.480 at that time, so he was kind of a kind 0:51:04.520 --> 0:51:08.920 of a jealous guy, you know, And so I just 0:51:09.000 --> 0:51:12.880 split but out on my home. Okay, So how do 0:51:12.920 --> 0:51:16.760 you end up continuing to work with the uh box tops? 0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:19.520 You have more hits with the box tops? Are they 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:22.000 aligned with Chips? Are they part of your thing? No? 0:51:22.200 --> 0:51:25.160 They were, they were his thing. They were signed to 0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:29.600 that company. I used up all my box top I mean, 0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:33.120 you know, I didn't cut anymore. I try left, so 0:51:33.760 --> 0:51:37.880 him and tog Chips and Tommy Tog Bill started cutting 0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:41.080 them and they cut sold eat, which was a big hit. 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:46.399 I tried. I lived, but you know, I didn't cut 0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:49.920 him anymore. And then later he went to the the 0:51:50.000 --> 0:51:54.359 Jim Dixon thing, the big Star thing, and I never 0:51:54.440 --> 0:51:58.480 had any more contact with him until I was playing 0:51:58.480 --> 0:52:02.680 a showdown and we rys at the Stone they called 0:52:02.719 --> 0:52:07.640 it the Stone down there, and I was playing. I 0:52:07.719 --> 0:52:11.759 had a little part. I was playing, and I came off, stayed, 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:15.840 I told my guitar, and Alex walked out on stage, 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:19.040 got my guitar and carried it off stage for me. 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:21.600 And we had a good time that night. We talked 0:52:21.640 --> 0:52:26.080 and we were good for friends. And uh, you know, 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:27.759 some of them said he was mad at me, but 0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:32.560 he never had a reason. We always got along. Okay, 0:52:32.800 --> 0:52:35.239 you cut me on Rainbow. I love that song. Tell 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:38.200 me the story on that. Okay, that was just one 0:52:38.239 --> 0:52:41.919 of the first the first album and I love that song. 0:52:42.120 --> 0:52:45.200 Was another White Carson song, and I just love that 0:52:45.520 --> 0:52:50.960 who Lilt, you know? And I thought it was a smash, 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:54.240 but you know, it only sold about a half a million, 0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:58.560 which which wasn't you know the four million on the 0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:01.759 letter initially. And all of a sudden, I get a 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:03.880 call I'm done at the world fare and send him 0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:06.600 tone me and Wayne and actually we're on our way 0:53:06.640 --> 0:53:13.600 to Mexico with our lives and h so we are 0:53:14.400 --> 0:53:16.200 we were down there. I get it. I called into 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:19.320 the Bail Records. I was supposed to check in that again, 0:53:20.160 --> 0:53:22.359 and I called him and I said, okay, what's up. 0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:26.799 They said, well, me on Rainbow's coming off the chart. 0:53:26.880 --> 0:53:31.400 It ain't setting really no, it's not selling. So the 0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:34.640 half a million I saw, I said, well, a good 0:53:34.680 --> 0:53:37.480 bit and he said, no, that's not nothing. What the 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:42.120 other song gone? So suddenly I'm on. I'm kind of 0:53:43.760 --> 0:53:46.239 you know, they're expected me to come up with another letter. 0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:53.600 That's when. And nobody was sending me And he saw 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:57.920 Wayne and quit setting me songs. Nobody would send me songs. Uh, 0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:01.640 they just weren't coming my way. And I called Sputter 0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:05.080 and I said, we got to write to the next 0:54:05.080 --> 0:54:09.360 box top of it. Okay, fine, he said, so we 0:54:09.440 --> 0:54:13.160 get together on anyway, if we get together on a 0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:15.680 Tuesday night, I had set the session up from maybe 0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:19.440 Thursday morning. Got to all the guys called and go 0:54:19.640 --> 0:54:22.920 cut it America and figure men, Spooner would come up 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:25.920 with a song. Well, we just tried and tried and tried, 0:54:26.080 --> 0:54:29.800 and we'd tire up paper, throw it in the can, 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:31.920 and we drank coffee and we did all kinds of 0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:35.120 stuff trying to come to a place that we had 0:54:35.160 --> 0:54:40.239 to hit nothing nothing. Finally, in despair, we decided, as 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:43.680 but let's go home, he said, right. So we go 0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:47.480 across the street to this little barbecue place. It was open. 0:54:47.480 --> 0:54:52.399 It was thirty six in the morning, and we walked 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:54.759 in and we ordered were setting it. We're setting it 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:59.840 a little booth and you know, just out of no 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:03.480 wor Sputter put his head over on the table. I mean, 0:55:03.480 --> 0:55:06.480 he said, I could cry like a baby. I said, 0:55:06.480 --> 0:55:09.400 what did you say? He said, cry like a baby. 0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:12.640 That's a spoon, that's it. It hit me just like 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:16.840 a lightning boat. And then he hit him, and certainly 0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:19.799 we were alive. Now we had just about died, but 0:55:19.840 --> 0:55:22.759 we were alive. I told her chat, I said, just 0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:24.759 keep the money. I thought it was the money. I 0:55:24.760 --> 0:55:27.880 should keep the food. We don't need it now. So 0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:30.480 here we go back across the street and I got 0:55:30.480 --> 0:55:32.600 the key in the studio. Always had us cheated the 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:38.719 studio whatever studioized that. And so you know, time we 0:55:38.800 --> 0:55:42.080 got to the key to the to the lock already had. 0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:45.400 When I think about the good love you gave me, 0:55:45.840 --> 0:55:49.200 I cry like a baby. To tune in, we go, 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:52.040 I said, Sputter, get to get to get the the 0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:57.200 B three back on, I'll turn on the the board 0:55:57.239 --> 0:55:59.439 and stuff. We've just been in there. You know, there's 0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:03.759 still So we turned it on and and I put 0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:07.799 on a quarter inch reel, a quarter inach tape, a 0:56:07.840 --> 0:56:10.960 big wheel, and we wrote the song. How that reel 0:56:11.160 --> 0:56:15.239 was was recording. And when we came back in the 0:56:15.239 --> 0:56:18.520 control and heard it, I said, I ain't leaving this building. 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:21.239 And this is about seven in the morning. He said 0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:24.720 me neither. And you know, we just washed our face, 0:56:24.800 --> 0:56:29.000 drank another cup of coffee and waited him out, waiting 0:56:29.080 --> 0:56:31.560 for the band that came in come in. And when 0:56:31.600 --> 0:56:35.680 Alex heard that, he said, all right, So he was. 0:56:36.160 --> 0:56:39.000 He was really in the cry like a baby. Can 0:56:39.040 --> 0:56:41.400 you tell that day? How long did it take to 0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:47.200 actually cut it? Well, it took about two hours. We 0:56:47.320 --> 0:56:49.719 might have you know, we we got sounds and then 0:56:49.760 --> 0:56:52.560 we got We probably went through it three or four times. 0:56:54.080 --> 0:56:57.919 And it was a three track. America was three track 0:56:58.000 --> 0:56:59.880 at that time, so I had all the ban on 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:04.080 one track, I had Alex on one track, and I 0:57:04.120 --> 0:57:07.239 had an empty track and that's where I put my 0:57:07.320 --> 0:57:11.919 horns and strange right there. And at the end when 0:57:11.920 --> 0:57:15.560 Alex had quit singing. I had a little space. That's 0:57:15.560 --> 0:57:19.160 where I put the airplane. Okay, so now you build 0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:22.520 your own studio. Where do you build your studio? There 0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:26.400 in Memphis? Uh over on what was that stream Highland 0:57:27.000 --> 0:57:30.360 Highland Street of beautiful Sounds. It was a good studio. 0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:35.360 But I never did do much over there. Uh I 0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:40.480 cut nobody's food over that on myself, and I did 0:57:40.480 --> 0:57:42.760 a record on B. J. Thomas that never come out. 0:57:43.600 --> 0:57:50.080 But I was not a businessman, still ain't. But and 0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:54.160 I'm still doing a bit of drinking. And eventually I 0:57:54.240 --> 0:57:58.080 lost the studio. You know. Ever, you don't ever gain 0:57:58.160 --> 0:58:00.680 until you lose something, you know. But I learned a 0:58:00.720 --> 0:58:04.680 lot in that exchange. So but I had about I 0:58:04.680 --> 0:58:10.120 had about the land in the building, so I didn't 0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:13.520 lose everything, but I did lose my equipment that I 0:58:13.600 --> 0:58:18.600 put in there. But you know, like I say, I'm 0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:23.280 no business man. I can do business, but I don't 0:58:23.280 --> 0:58:26.600 really know how. Now you say you learned a number 0:58:26.640 --> 0:58:28.400 of things, can you tell us a couple of things 0:58:28.440 --> 0:58:34.760 you learned? Well, you just learned sometime not to trust people. 0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:39.040 It's bad and it's sad, but you know, you've got 0:58:39.040 --> 0:58:40.880 to get things rolled down on the piece of paper 0:58:41.880 --> 0:58:46.800 if you're gonna claim your part. So I learned that. 0:58:47.800 --> 0:58:51.200 I learned that you can't drink on the job. Uh. 0:58:53.840 --> 0:58:56.200 I learned that business just ain't gonna come in just 0:58:56.240 --> 0:59:01.040 because you're kind of hit. Okay, the studio closes what 0:59:01.120 --> 0:59:08.640 you're moved. After that, I came. I came to Nashville. Uh. Well, 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:11.520 I guess I had a little studio there in Memphis 0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:16.600 in a little carriage house back there a year, maybe 0:59:16.600 --> 0:59:20.000 a year or two, and it was a little forward track, 0:59:20.080 --> 0:59:23.200 and I've wrote songs and put them down and hang 0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:30.120 out there. But then we moved to Nashville and send 0:59:30.200 --> 0:59:34.840 me fo the December, sent me forward. Okay, So you 0:59:34.880 --> 0:59:37.959 have a number of hits. How's your economic situation, because 0:59:38.000 --> 0:59:40.520 you talked about not getting paid by Conway Twitty song. 0:59:41.600 --> 0:59:43.720 Are you making enough or in the down periods are 0:59:43.720 --> 0:59:47.360 you're scraping by? Well? You know, I was making okay 0:59:47.800 --> 0:59:53.760 until when when Martin Luther King got killed the Memphis 0:59:54.880 --> 1:00:00.240 and that changed everything. Well, the black singers quick coming 1:00:00.280 --> 1:00:03.960 to the to the white armed studios, and then it 1:00:04.080 --> 1:00:08.120 just went downhill, and I would writing for all these people, 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:12.880 you know, and so suddenly they didn't need my songs. 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:17.439 They weren't fair. And so there was a big, big 1:00:17.440 --> 1:00:20.360 space there that I just didn't write much. I was 1:00:20.440 --> 1:00:23.240 kind of kind of mixed up during that point. I 1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:25.920 didn't know just what my next move was going to be. 1:00:26.840 --> 1:00:30.760 But I came to Nashville not to be a country writer, 1:00:30.920 --> 1:00:33.680 but just just to be some kind of writer, you know. 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.880 I mean, I was trying to keep on going and 1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:38.880 and during that time, I wouldn't do it really that 1:00:39.200 --> 1:00:43.800 as you say, I wouldn't I wouldn't flush with money. Uh. 1:00:44.560 --> 1:00:50.040 Around seven I came here and seventy five, around seventy eight, 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:53.520 Linda walts is n tells me I need to take 1:00:53.600 --> 1:00:58.280 the I need to take the bringing off the phone 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:02.280 in the garage. I said why, She said, that's five 1:01:02.320 --> 1:01:05.520 dollars a month. She said, we're we're running low. We 1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:11.240 need to just cut everything we can out. And I said, okay, okay. 1:01:11.360 --> 1:01:15.400 So I went long after that that that the Commitment 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:19.760 movie came out and they had cut Do Right Woman 1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:23.040 and Dark down the Street a good job on him too. 1:01:23.280 --> 1:01:26.560 That with those people did a great job, little Irish movie. 1:01:27.560 --> 1:01:31.200 And suddenly they started sending me checks again, you know, 1:01:31.360 --> 1:01:37.040 And I said, oh, maybe we're not through. You know, 1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:40.240 there's all kind of doubt. Can can feel your mind 1:01:40.280 --> 1:01:45.560 when when you're not writing. Okay, so how does uh 1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:50.440 reath end up cutting? Uh do right Woman? Well, I 1:01:50.440 --> 1:01:55.280 have back in sixty seven. I believe sixty seven. I 1:01:55.400 --> 1:02:01.360 guess six d nine. Well I just left. I guess 1:02:01.360 --> 1:02:05.480 you're sixty seven. I left muscle shows in sixty six 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:12.280 and come to American in Memphis, And so the moment 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:15.320 and I running around together, we wrote Dark on the 1:02:15.320 --> 1:02:18.720 Street and uh do Right Woman, kind of you know, 1:02:19.160 --> 1:02:24.320 close space, and uh so he got cold to play 1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:27.120 guitar on the Aretha Franklin. She was Don't Cut It 1:02:27.200 --> 1:02:31.000 fame and he was a great gutar player at that time. 1:02:32.040 --> 1:02:34.960 And uh so I said, hey, I'm going to You know, 1:02:35.080 --> 1:02:38.400 we were we were parted, so I've jumped in and 1:02:38.400 --> 1:02:41.000 went to But right before we went down there, we 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:43.600 put a little tape down and just see him playing 1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:47.240 guitar and me singing dark and the streaming do right Woman. 1:02:48.040 --> 1:02:51.439 So we get down to most of the shows and 1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:55.360 they cut I Never Loved a Man the Way I 1:02:55.440 --> 1:02:58.640 Love You, which was a big hit and we all 1:02:58.720 --> 1:03:01.680 knew it and everybody knew it, and they knew it 1:03:01.800 --> 1:03:06.680 so well that everybody started drinking a little and before 1:03:06.720 --> 1:03:11.760 you know it. So anyway, Mr Wex and Jared Waxer 1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:13.800 came to me. I'll go back to that in a minute. 1:03:13.800 --> 1:03:16.560 But he came to me and said, hey, damn baby, 1:03:17.160 --> 1:03:20.160 he said, I'll cut that, do right, song said? She 1:03:20.400 --> 1:03:22.440 played it to me. I want to go, okay, but 1:03:22.520 --> 1:03:26.720 there's no words for the bridge. I said, well, we 1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:32.160 can get you some words. Uh okay, I said, just 1:03:32.160 --> 1:03:33.880 give me a few minutes. So I went over to 1:03:33.960 --> 1:03:37.439 this little closet and I'm over there and I'm trying 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:40.520 to come up with something, all right, So I said, well, 1:03:41.240 --> 1:03:43.400 what's your favorite song? And I had to say it 1:03:43.480 --> 1:03:48.280 was It's a Man's Well. So that was my favorite 1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:50.520 song at the time, and that's one of my favorite ships. 1:03:52.000 --> 1:03:54.720 And so I said, well, they say it's a Man's World. 1:03:55.480 --> 1:04:00.040 Wrote that down. Now I'm stumped again. Mr X, I 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:03.160 can said in the door, said hey, Dan, honey, baby, 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:06.960 what you got from me? I said, that's what I got, Jerry, 1:04:07.200 --> 1:04:10.160 they say that this Man's World. He said, I've got 1:04:10.160 --> 1:04:12.600 your next part. I said, what's that? He said, But 1:04:12.720 --> 1:04:16.160 you can't prove that by me. Note that, Dawn, I said, 1:04:16.160 --> 1:04:19.400 thank you, Jerry, And then you know, I've got two 1:04:19.440 --> 1:04:21.880 lines now. And the next thing I know, Reatha sticks 1:04:21.880 --> 1:04:25.840 curiad in the door. Hey Dan, honey, what you got 1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:28.520 full wreath? And I said, this is what I got. 1:04:28.560 --> 1:04:32.000 Reason they say that it's a man's world, but you 1:04:32.040 --> 1:04:34.600 can't prove that by me. She said, I've got your 1:04:34.640 --> 1:04:36.960 next part and I said, what's that? She said, as 1:04:37.000 --> 1:04:39.920 long as we work together, baby, shows some respect from me. 1:04:40.000 --> 1:04:42.320 I wrote that down. Thank you a Wretha. All of 1:04:42.360 --> 1:04:45.360 a sudden we had words for the bridge. So now 1:04:45.400 --> 1:04:48.760 I gotta go out and saying she she she likes it, 1:04:48.840 --> 1:04:51.760 but she she is not ready to make a commitment 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:55.720 to sing it. So now I gotta go sing the 1:04:55.760 --> 1:04:59.960 pilot vocal in her key. She had found her key, 1:05:00.520 --> 1:05:02.880 and man was it high. It was way up there. 1:05:03.520 --> 1:05:05.320 So I go out and I'm doing the pilot and 1:05:05.440 --> 1:05:07.840 when we run through it about once, maybe the twice 1:05:08.080 --> 1:05:12.480 second run through, and then all of a sudden, I 1:05:12.520 --> 1:05:16.880 look around and everybody's gone, and I'm standing at the mic, 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:21.320 and I go, what's this? And so find it? I 1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:24.080 think when the secretaries came in and said Dan the 1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:28.080 sessions over. I said, what's wrong? She said, Jerry's pulling 1:05:28.120 --> 1:05:30.120 her out of here. He's taken her back to New York. 1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:34.800 It's a no kid. So I said to myself, well, 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:37.160 you're not gonna make any money today, you know, because 1:05:37.560 --> 1:05:40.680 it was not coming off. It was just playing down, 1:05:40.840 --> 1:05:42.440 you know, and the dude right, and I was way 1:05:42.520 --> 1:05:46.160 up high and it sanded off. And so then later 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:50.760 Mr Wexford said, called everybody to come to New York 1:05:51.320 --> 1:05:53.680 to finish the album. Well I said, I'm going to 1:05:53.840 --> 1:05:56.720 So sure enough I did, and I go up there 1:05:56.720 --> 1:05:59.720 and just as we come out of the Heedlevate, just 1:06:00.040 --> 1:06:03.360 we come out of the elevator, Jerry said, Daniel and 1:06:03.520 --> 1:06:07.760 Chips come with me, and we went down to the 1:06:07.800 --> 1:06:11.880 Atlantic Control room and he played as the do Right 1:06:11.920 --> 1:06:14.720 Woman with the wreath of players piano, her and her 1:06:14.800 --> 1:06:18.960 sisters singing. It was big time magic. It still is. 1:06:19.000 --> 1:06:21.960 I play it nine, it's like, wow, what a record. 1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:25.640 And when it left Alabama, it was it didn't even 1:06:25.880 --> 1:06:30.480 what name nuts Moats, it was just nuts. We'll then 1:06:30.520 --> 1:06:35.840 to get that in a minute. Okay. So, uh, you know, 1:06:35.880 --> 1:06:38.840 having been to a couple of these places, the radically 1:06:38.880 --> 1:06:43.400 different I mean, Nashville is very different from Memphis. I 1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:46.200 haven't been to Muscle. Soul has been to Alabama just barely. 1:06:46.760 --> 1:06:50.560 Can you tell us the difference between all those places. Well, 1:06:50.600 --> 1:06:56.360 I can just say you in recording, uh, recording language, 1:06:58.120 --> 1:07:03.560 Muscle shows well, Memphis, let's go in Memphis. Memphis is 1:07:03.600 --> 1:07:08.240 down on them on the Mississippi River, and it's just 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:14.320 so such a magical city. It was really before Dr 1:07:14.400 --> 1:07:17.960 King got shot, but it was when I rolled in 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:21.520 there at sixty six. It was clean, it was magical, 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:24.240 and you know, you could look in some of those 1:07:24.280 --> 1:07:28.960 ladies eyes and I almost get song. They carried songs 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:34.080 in their eyes. And and then you come to Nishville 1:07:34.120 --> 1:07:37.600 and Nashville and it's like low. It's like it's got 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:41.480 the low mids and the base and the middle and 1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:45.480 some highs but not over highs. You come to Nashville 1:07:46.400 --> 1:07:50.920 and it's it's a wonderful place to record also, but 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:53.320 it's it's up in the it's more mountains, it's in 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:56.840 the high end of things. You still can get the base, 1:07:56.920 --> 1:08:00.640 but you need to go direct because it's not the 1:08:00.720 --> 1:08:04.439 same recording air that Memphis has got. It's different. Sea level, 1:08:05.920 --> 1:08:09.120 sea level see the sea level is different, and then 1:08:09.160 --> 1:08:12.240 you go down to Muscle Show and it's just almost 1:08:12.240 --> 1:08:17.760 in between them. So Muscle Shows it's a fantastic place 1:08:17.800 --> 1:08:22.040 to record because of the sea level. It's down a little, 1:08:22.080 --> 1:08:24.360 but it ain't down its flow. And then New Orleans 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:27.880 does don't even lower. You know, the Memphis and and 1:08:27.920 --> 1:08:30.680 that's a that's a that's a lower sea level. It's 1:08:30.720 --> 1:08:37.920 a great place to record, but my favorite place is Memphis. Okay. Now, 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:42.200 ultimately after you leave, there's a schism in Muscle Shoals 1:08:42.320 --> 1:08:46.960 where Barry Beckett and those guys start Muscle Shoals Sound Studio. 1:08:47.320 --> 1:08:51.240 Do you have a take on that? Well, I wasn't around, 1:08:51.280 --> 1:08:54.559 but I do know kind of what happened. You know, 1:08:54.960 --> 1:08:57.960 they went over and built their own studio with the 1:08:58.000 --> 1:09:01.240 help of Jerry Wexler. He was and behind that because 1:09:01.680 --> 1:09:04.280 I guess him and Rick had had a few following 1:09:04.320 --> 1:09:10.080 out things. But anyway, they built their own studio and 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:14.720 Jerry started setting people there, and people started coming there, 1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:17.240 and they cut a lot of hit records in that 1:09:17.320 --> 1:09:22.519 a little place. But you know, that's about all I 1:09:22.600 --> 1:09:24.880 know of it. They did go on down later to 1:09:24.960 --> 1:09:27.920 the river and built a bigger studio. That's where I 1:09:27.920 --> 1:09:32.960 cut do right man, So you know that it was 1:09:33.000 --> 1:09:36.519 a happening thing. But Rick got You know, you can't 1:09:36.520 --> 1:09:40.080 stop Rick Hall. He would he just he just looked around. 1:09:40.080 --> 1:09:42.000 He got a bunch of other music and he kept 1:09:42.040 --> 1:09:45.840 on going. He got some more writers. He you can't 1:09:45.880 --> 1:09:48.040 stop him. You know. I couldn't do that. I couldn't 1:09:48.040 --> 1:09:51.040 put just put put a band together just because I 1:09:51.120 --> 1:09:53.519 needed them. I mean, I couldn't do it because the 1:09:53.600 --> 1:09:58.599 drummers probably gone quit before nightfall. I couldn't put up 1:09:58.640 --> 1:10:00.639 with all of that. But Rick could when he went 1:10:00.680 --> 1:10:02.880 through people and he would he would teach him how 1:10:02.880 --> 1:10:06.479 to record. And he's the daddy of the muscle show. 1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:11.840 Sound okay. You mentioned Dr King being shot. How much 1:10:11.920 --> 1:10:15.120 was racism a factor with you growing up being in 1:10:15.160 --> 1:10:19.400 the music business, being in the South, it was zero. 1:10:20.439 --> 1:10:24.200 I didn't Where I came up in Vernlon, there was 1:10:24.240 --> 1:10:27.800 no racism. There wasn't hardly any black folks. There was 1:10:27.840 --> 1:10:30.800 a few lived outside of town there, but I had 1:10:31.160 --> 1:10:33.840 no contact with him until I got the Muscle Show 1:10:34.560 --> 1:10:40.600 to Florence and I met author Alexander and so it 1:10:40.720 --> 1:10:43.680 never was a real big never hit me in the 1:10:43.720 --> 1:10:46.160 face until I saw TV. Well at night, you know, 1:10:46.240 --> 1:10:48.840 i'd see what's happening on the TV. You know, I went, wow, 1:10:49.479 --> 1:10:56.479 that's strange. But really never never did affect me that much. Okay, 1:10:56.479 --> 1:10:59.120 I see you're wearing overalls, and you're also wearing them 1:10:59.120 --> 1:11:02.160 in some of the photos. Is that a fashion choice 1:11:02.479 --> 1:11:05.400 or if you always warn your overalls, how do you 1:11:05.479 --> 1:11:09.160 decide to wear them? Well? I put a pair on 1:11:09.160 --> 1:11:14.680 one day and it was so neat, lots of pockets, 1:11:15.240 --> 1:11:19.040 lots of space, just you know, I mean, I'm built 1:11:19.080 --> 1:11:22.559 for comfort, not for speed, and and and you know, 1:11:22.600 --> 1:11:24.800 I just kept going. I kept I just kept for 1:11:24.880 --> 1:11:28.320 wearing them. And I don't think I've warned anything else. 1:11:28.400 --> 1:11:30.320 Maybe a funeral. I might have war with pair of 1:11:30.320 --> 1:11:35.720 slacks to my mama's funeral. But otherwise I've got new 1:11:35.760 --> 1:11:38.639 ones that I wear on the show. I wear him 1:11:38.640 --> 1:11:40.960 on the show. But I but I do this, you know, 1:11:41.040 --> 1:11:43.360 I put it. I put a real nice shirt over. 1:11:43.479 --> 1:11:45.800 And if people come up and they'll say, I thought 1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:47.840 you were gonna wear your old wrongs, and I said, 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:51.760 well I did, They said I said see, and then 1:11:51.760 --> 1:11:54.599 they then they're happy. So now it's become a thing 1:11:54.680 --> 1:11:59.080 you know, for my gigs, they expect overalls and I 1:11:59.160 --> 1:12:02.040 got them. You know, I weren't because they're there the 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:06.679 comfortless things in this world. And prior to this COVID era, 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:11.800 how much were you working on the road? Um, you know, 1:12:11.880 --> 1:12:15.559 I just take. I've always just taken what what what 1:12:15.640 --> 1:12:19.000 comes in and I booked my own stylf. So I'm 1:12:19.000 --> 1:12:22.400 not trying to to work every night, you know, or 1:12:22.560 --> 1:12:27.200 too to be a road musician. I'm not bill right 1:12:27.280 --> 1:12:31.439 for that. I always knew I wouldn't and that and 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:35.280 working in the studio was just right for me. But 1:12:35.400 --> 1:12:39.519 before the COVID thing, I guess I was playing once 1:12:39.640 --> 1:12:42.840 plast a month. Oh really that much? Another question is 1:12:43.160 --> 1:12:47.200 you talk about being young, drinking, staying up all night. 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:51.960 How did you keep your marriage together. I had a 1:12:52.000 --> 1:12:58.240 good woman better than me, and she put up with 1:12:58.280 --> 1:13:03.760 a lot. She still wouldn't Uh, I gave it all 1:13:03.800 --> 1:13:08.880 to her. She she was very good. Okay. And you 1:13:09.000 --> 1:13:12.240 also mentioned working lead at night. Do you find your 1:13:12.280 --> 1:13:14.479 more creative later in the day or it doesn't really 1:13:14.520 --> 1:13:18.439 matter later in the day. Definitely, I'm I'm no good 1:13:18.479 --> 1:13:22.960 in the morning for nothing. Uh. You know, back there 1:13:23.000 --> 1:13:26.559 at one Daddy fixed me up a mute and cloud 1:13:26.560 --> 1:13:28.760 and stuff. When he go to the becoming planet, him 1:13:28.760 --> 1:13:31.759 and Mama. That would be about six thirty in the morning. 1:13:31.760 --> 1:13:33.920 We'll be having breakfast and he'd tell me all these 1:13:33.920 --> 1:13:36.639 things he wanted me to do, and when they left, 1:13:36.680 --> 1:13:40.080 I'd go back to bed and i'd sleep to my 1:13:40.280 --> 1:13:44.120 common nine thirty. That's that was when my body woke up. 1:13:44.600 --> 1:13:47.040 And then I just run real fast all day trying 1:13:47.080 --> 1:13:49.439 to get done what he wanted. I usually made it, 1:13:50.920 --> 1:13:56.519 but I'm not a morning person. And I started waking 1:13:56.600 --> 1:14:03.000 up about one. Uh that on the clock, I'm pretty good. Uh. 1:14:03.360 --> 1:14:06.400 I hit my stride if if I'm writing with somebody 1:14:06.439 --> 1:14:11.639 around midnight, and we're good for a while. And so 1:14:11.960 --> 1:14:14.559 if you're not writing, if you're in the COVID era, 1:14:14.640 --> 1:14:17.519 what time do you go to bed? Oh? I go 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:19.960 to bed about eight o'clock, but I'll watched the tube 1:14:21.000 --> 1:14:25.559 two until I fall asleep. Okay, And to what did 1:14:25.600 --> 1:14:27.960 we are you writing with other people over these last 1:14:28.000 --> 1:14:31.680 few years? Well, not not as much as I was. 1:14:31.920 --> 1:14:35.080 I used to would write with anybody, and you know, 1:14:35.120 --> 1:14:37.040 I'd ask them if they didn't ask me, just a 1:14:37.160 --> 1:14:41.120 stranger somebody that wrote, and we get together here in Nashville. 1:14:41.160 --> 1:14:43.599 I wrote with a lot of people that lived here, 1:14:44.360 --> 1:14:47.040 but pretty soon that that kind of run than to me. 1:14:47.479 --> 1:14:50.800 I wouldn't get, I wouldn't want, I wouldn't getting much 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:53.439 out of my gut. It was mostly coming out of 1:14:53.479 --> 1:14:58.880 my head, uh brain, songs all thought up. You know, 1:14:59.479 --> 1:15:09.400 a good song writers. But you know, lately I hadn't 1:15:09.439 --> 1:15:11.000 been with Spoon or a good while. We're going to 1:15:11.080 --> 1:15:13.720 probably get back together one of these days. But I 1:15:13.760 --> 1:15:16.880 wrote one one song with Buzz Chasing for this album, 1:15:17.040 --> 1:15:21.760 particularly far, And then I wrote two songs with Will McFarland, 1:15:21.840 --> 1:15:25.080 the guitar player on this album, two new songs and 1:15:25.280 --> 1:15:28.520 three with him, and I wrote two songs by myself, 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:32.960 which is kind of odd, but I wrote him, and 1:15:33.000 --> 1:15:35.519 that's why I got to that here. Hey, you got 1:15:35.560 --> 1:15:38.080 some songs here, and you've got a few laying around you, like, 1:15:38.160 --> 1:15:41.240 why don't you cut a record? Okay, that comes full 1:15:41.280 --> 1:15:45.000 circle before we get to the conclusion, though, What is 1:15:45.000 --> 1:15:50.360 it about writing with someone else that is so appealing? Well, 1:15:51.880 --> 1:15:55.719 it's fun. It's more fun these people who can write 1:15:55.720 --> 1:15:58.920 by themselves and have fun. I don't know about I 1:15:58.920 --> 1:16:00.600 don't I can't do that I mean, you know, I 1:16:00.640 --> 1:16:02.920 write one every once in a while by myself. I 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:06.519 get serious enough to write a song by myself. But 1:16:06.600 --> 1:16:10.280 if I'm writing with somebody else, there is a fun 1:16:10.360 --> 1:16:13.519 factor that just comes into the verbal. I mean, we 1:16:13.600 --> 1:16:17.640 might tell a joke, you know, if nothing's happening. If 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:21.679 we sat here for forty five minutes and nobody hits 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:25.080 the chord, nobody talks about a song idea, nothing's happened, 1:16:25.760 --> 1:16:28.200 we might go boating, we might go to a movie. 1:16:28.920 --> 1:16:31.720 We gotta keep things moving, we gotta move around a 1:16:31.760 --> 1:16:34.720 little bit until the time of the night is right, 1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:40.160 all the afternoon is right, that the idea hits somebody, 1:16:40.280 --> 1:16:46.360 or the chord change hits somebody, but being able to 1:16:46.400 --> 1:16:51.240 bounce it off of somebody you respect. Usually I try 1:16:51.240 --> 1:16:53.960 to write with musicians who are better than I am. 1:16:54.040 --> 1:16:58.640 I'm a fair guitar strummer. I can keep with it, 1:16:58.720 --> 1:17:01.160 but I'm not a picker. But I write with some 1:17:01.160 --> 1:17:08.040 of these people who can really play, and that's really helpful. Okay, 1:17:08.320 --> 1:17:11.479 you talked about crying like a baby, We're lightning struck, 1:17:12.080 --> 1:17:14.600 and then you also talked about making a commitment to 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:18.519 writing a song. Our songs better if they come from 1:17:18.560 --> 1:17:22.080 pure inspiration, or they can they be equally as good 1:17:22.120 --> 1:17:24.120 if you sit down and make a commitment. Hey, we 1:17:24.240 --> 1:17:29.160 don't have anything. We're gonna start right now. Either one 1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:31.639 can be just as good as the other. I mean, 1:17:31.680 --> 1:17:34.400 I think we have to pull him out of the 1:17:34.400 --> 1:17:37.400 air when we got nothing. You know, I always looked 1:17:37.400 --> 1:17:41.160 at it that one. I mean, God's got them adel 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:43.680 up there if you don't. If you got one and 1:17:43.720 --> 1:17:48.000 you don't write it tonight, somebody else. You know, we 1:17:48.040 --> 1:17:51.320 wrote down your puppet wasn't wasn't when a month went by, Uh, 1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:54.040 we heard this song by others. I'm just a puppet 1:17:54.040 --> 1:17:57.559 on a string. So I think these ideas are serpenting 1:17:57.560 --> 1:18:01.479 around up here in the in the atmosphere, some of them, 1:18:01.520 --> 1:18:05.080 and you can have one if you can just make 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:08.519 the commitment. You've got to commit to do it. You know, 1:18:08.640 --> 1:18:11.920 you you can't be playing. If you commit to write 1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:16.519 a song by yourself or with somebody else, you're all 1:18:16.600 --> 1:18:23.080 in like a h and you might win. You know. Well, 1:18:23.120 --> 1:18:24.840 I think you've had a great commitment to your new 1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:28.759 album and people should really listen to it. That's living 1:18:28.760 --> 1:18:31.599 on mercy, And thanks so much for making the commitment. 1:18:31.640 --> 1:18:34.680 To talk to me. Thank you, Bob, thanks for calling me. 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:37.559 Until next time. This is Bob luft Sense