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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: I guess today is truly legendary Dan Penn known as

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Speaker 1: a songwriter, a singer, a player, a producer. Dan. So

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Speaker 1: great to have you on here. Good to be here, Bob. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you have a new album that comes out. You know,

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Speaker 1: normally I'm against type in general, but I've been listening

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Speaker 1: to the album and it's really good. Okay, that's strange. Well,

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Speaker 1: I had an era where there's so much crap out there.

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Speaker 1: Let's start from the beginning. The album is called Living

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Speaker 1: on Mercy. What made you decide to actually record it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Just uh, I wasn't doing anything else and this, you know,

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Speaker 1: had a kind of a low here in the studio.

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Speaker 1: And uh so I thought, well, you know, I still saying,

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Speaker 1: so my re all making me on record. Hadn't made

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Speaker 1: one in a long time. So, uh, just Spooner and

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Speaker 1: I going to Japan and made made a few bucks

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Speaker 1: and came back. I said, I'll just spend that on

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Speaker 1: my record, and and so I started and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we just kept going. Okay, let's stop for a second here.

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Speaker 1: When did Spooner and you go to Japan? We went

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Speaker 1: here before last, I believe was it was the last time.

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Speaker 1: So he went, we went over and played four or

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Speaker 1: five shows. How does something like that come together? Well,

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Speaker 1: this uh, this uh fellow who was a motor you

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Speaker 1: called me, he calls better, he called me, and we

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Speaker 1: got together on price and he brought us so and

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Speaker 1: you know, wasn't anything strange, but it did work out

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Speaker 1: really good. And you know what he had was one

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Speaker 1: of the best things in the world. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you go to get on a plane or when you

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Speaker 1: get off, there said somebody with a wheelchair to wheel

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Speaker 1: you to the next to the next gate. So we

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Speaker 1: got wheeled all around Japan and all over America. So

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Speaker 1: the wheelchair was you know, I'll never fly without it. Now,

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Speaker 1: speaking to that, as we're all getting up in years,

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Speaker 1: how is your mobility and health? Well, it's like all

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Speaker 1: the people who are seventy eight years old. I wake

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Speaker 1: up with new little things every day sometimes, but you know,

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Speaker 1: in general, I still get around pretty good. My ballot

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Speaker 1: saying as good as it was. Um, I've got other

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Speaker 1: problems in other areas, but overall, in general, I feel

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Speaker 1: pretty good. So I felt good enough to make that

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Speaker 1: CD record and I hope I can. If they'll get

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Speaker 1: this COVID thing done, maybe I could get out and

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Speaker 1: do a few shows. And to what degree are you quarantining?

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Speaker 1: I'm here, but if I need to go to the grocery,

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Speaker 1: I'll go. I put on a mask, I go where

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Speaker 1: I got to. You know, I'll quarantine you. I've never

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Speaker 1: called it that. I've never considered that's what I was doing,

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Speaker 1: but I guess that's what we're all doing. So but

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Speaker 1: if I'll go, do what I gotta do, and I'll

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Speaker 1: wear the mask and get the stuff and bring it home.

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Speaker 1: But pretty soon I'll go back to Alabama. We got

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Speaker 1: a place in Alabama. We just came back up here

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Speaker 1: from Alabama to get to take Linda to the doctors.

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Speaker 1: She had to have a pacemaker put in, so I

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Speaker 1: had to bring Harry and to do that. And I'm

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Speaker 1: doing a few interviews like with you. I've got one more,

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Speaker 1: and then we're back to Aliba, Emma, and down here

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Speaker 1: we're just out in the country. So quarantine, we don't

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Speaker 1: even consider that word. But I know everybody is having

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Speaker 1: to do what they gotta do. Okay, I can see

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Speaker 1: in the video here there's a tape machine behind you.

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Speaker 1: So you have a studio there in your home in Nashville, Yes, Sue,

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Speaker 1: I've got a I've got a basement studio. Almost everybody

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Speaker 1: in a music basis has got a studio somewhere in

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Speaker 1: their house some kind. And this one's been here now

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Speaker 1: for what wrong about twenty years? About twenty years and

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Speaker 1: it's pretty nice. I mean I fixed it up pretty nice,

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Speaker 1: maybe two nice, you know, but I enjoyed. I can

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Speaker 1: come down here at midnight, you know, with my Jamie's

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Speaker 1: and work on the song, or work on the tape

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Speaker 1: that's already recorded. H you know, just keep it. It's

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Speaker 1: a good to have some way you go remake something

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Speaker 1: real fast. Or you know, once you leave the studio,

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Speaker 1: you're in your budgets right out. You can't you can't

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Speaker 1: do no more. But if you've got your own studio,

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Speaker 1: the budget never runs out. You can just keep on mixing.

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Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to do with do right mayn

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Speaker 1: back in the n is and but the budget was out,

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Speaker 1: we had to stop. I would have liked to have

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Speaker 1: done some more, but you know how it is. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So what do you have in that studio? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I see the tape machine. What other kind of equipment. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's an old m C I board here

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Speaker 1: six Uh, there's a sixteen track two inch over there.

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Speaker 1: There's some HD twenty four digital recorders, and there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a Harrison mixed bus, a digit of mixer, and

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Speaker 1: that's what we used on this record. We mixed it

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Speaker 1: through that Harrison. Okay, so you tend to read in

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Speaker 1: this album to record the tapered record digitally, the recorded

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Speaker 1: digitally in both places, I believe they were both proteos.

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Speaker 1: So we did that number and then we brought it

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Speaker 1: back here to my place, and we uh fixed a

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Speaker 1: few things and and overdub some things and mixed everything.

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Speaker 1: And uh, is it your room big enough to cut

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Speaker 1: or is it basically a mixing room? It's big enough

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Speaker 1: to cut four or five people, But we didn't cut here.

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Speaker 1: My board, my console was having some crackling problems. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I called a friend, buzz Case and who owns creative

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Speaker 1: workshop here studio and uh, really good studio, and he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: come on in. So I wonder over there and cut.

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Speaker 1: Three days we cut half album. I took a little

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Speaker 1: to break, but maybe a lot. And I tried to

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Speaker 1: get everybody else back together, and you know, you just

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Speaker 1: couldn't do it. Everybody's running here and there in the

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Speaker 1: studio would being booked. You know, I couldn't make it

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Speaker 1: land up. So I called them a guy and muscle

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Speaker 1: shows or Sheffield, Alabama at the nuthouse and I was

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Speaker 1: I was able to uh to land everybody uh down

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Speaker 1: at the nuthouse. And so we finished it that. We

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Speaker 1: tracked the rest of the tracks three more days, and

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Speaker 1: men bought it all back here and started, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at it pretty hard and what do we need

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Speaker 1: to do and stuff like that. Now, now the vocals

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Speaker 1: came off the floor with the band. I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't redo the vocals. So I fixed a couple of places,

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Speaker 1: but very small places. Okay. So in today's music business,

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Speaker 1: what are your expectations for a new recording where we

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Speaker 1: have streaming dominates there, I'm team tracks that aren't even

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Speaker 1: listened to on Spotify. It's so different from when you

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Speaker 1: started out and when I started out. So what's it

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Speaker 1: like in your mind making a record knowing how hard

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Speaker 1: it is to reach the audience. I don't really know,

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Speaker 1: you know that that that's not my part I was saying,

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Speaker 1: I play they sail, so I don't really know how

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Speaker 1: that works. I don't know anything about downloading. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a CD man. I don't even know anything about

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Speaker 1: But they say they're gonna put this on VINOYL so

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Speaker 1: you know, so be it. I got a record players

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Speaker 1: to you, so I'll listen to it. But I really

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Speaker 1: like c ds. You know. They say I'm just like

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Speaker 1: the studio, and that's fine with me. But these kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, they've got other ideas. Okay, let's go back

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Speaker 1: to the beginning. You're from Alabama, yes, sir. And you know,

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Speaker 1: especially Northerners like myself, if they've even been to the South,

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Speaker 1: they don't really know much about it. So we're in Alabama.

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Speaker 1: Did you grow up? I grew up in a little

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Speaker 1: town called Vernon, Vernon, Alabama. And where is that that's

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Speaker 1: down between Tuscaloosa, Alabama road tide. You know, it's between

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Speaker 1: there and uh in Columbus, Mississippi, right on the state

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Speaker 1: line Mississippi Alabama state line, halfway down in the state.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you grew up? How many kids in the

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Speaker 1: family I had? I had three sisters. I've got one

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Speaker 1: left and where are you in the hierarchy oldest youngest,

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Speaker 1: I'm I got one sister older. I had one sister older,

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Speaker 1: and I'm next, and then I had I've got Peggy left,

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Speaker 1: and my baby's sister Vicky got killed in a car

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Speaker 1: rash and save me nine, So just being my sister. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what did your parents do for a living back

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Speaker 1: in there in Vernon. Well, first they were farmers, and

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Speaker 1: he was a farmer, mother he was she was a

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Speaker 1: farmer too. They had caught and all that stuff, and

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Speaker 1: didn't they About forty nine they started working at the

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Speaker 1: government plant in Columbus, which is thirty miles away, and

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Speaker 1: so they worked, and government plants in that part of

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Speaker 1: the country just took over. They were in every little

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Speaker 1: town and everybody had a job and everybody might, you know,

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Speaker 1: some money, and that's what raised us all, really, except

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Speaker 1: for the crops that were there before. And so they

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Speaker 1: made men's trousers and then he worked in that the

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Speaker 1: ship of department, and mother worked in something there. So

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Speaker 1: you know, that's back when money with money, you know,

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Speaker 1: about thirty five dollars a week was a big paycheck.

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Speaker 1: So you grew up in Vernon. How many people in Vernon, Oh,

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Speaker 1: back then, probably not the same now. Maybe a thousand,

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Speaker 1: maybe fifteen hundred, maybe nine hundred, it's hard to say.

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Speaker 1: The surrounding area, it's not a lot of people, but

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Speaker 1: it's got a couple of red lacs. It is the

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Speaker 1: county seat of Lamar County. And your house that you

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Speaker 1: say you're going to return to, is that in Vernon, No, sir,

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Speaker 1: it's outside of a few miles. That was part of

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Speaker 1: my wife, Linda's grandparents farmhouse. It's an old farmhouse, over

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Speaker 1: a hundred years old, and she was born in the

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Speaker 1: front room where we sleep, so it's really personal to her.

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Speaker 1: And it's got the front porches on the hunt and

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Speaker 1: I got the back porch on the back, and it's

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Speaker 1: got a hallway all the way down through it. So

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Speaker 1: a very old fashioned and we rebuilt it years ago. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're growing up in Vernon. What does your life

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Speaker 1: look like you personally? Well, I'm going to school, you

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Speaker 1: know a lot. I'm going to high school. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to grammar school. I started, uh playing a little music,

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Speaker 1: started writing a few little songs, and finally I found

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Speaker 1: his place in Solide. That that's ten miles north and

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Speaker 1: they're having a square aints the College quarter Aints up there.

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Speaker 1: But what it really was was a little rock and

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Speaker 1: roll show with a few square ains is thrown in.

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Speaker 1: And so I went up there and started hanging out

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Speaker 1: with him and sitting in a little bit with a

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Speaker 1: band Minnie Kegle and a rhythm Swinsters. He played there.

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Speaker 1: He played it was you know, he played the square

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Speaker 1: dancers with a fiddle and then he played the snare

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Speaker 1: with the boat. Very good. Mr. But anyway, one of

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Speaker 1: the guys in the band was Billy Sheryl really is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was. He was playing electric sacks and he said,

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Speaker 1: I hear you write song. Somebody has got to him

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Speaker 1: and told him, man he I said, oh yeah, So

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Speaker 1: he said play me one. So I played him a song.

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Speaker 1: He said, why don't you come up to Florence. We've

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Speaker 1: got a little studio up that we just might put

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Speaker 1: a record of him. Well great, you know, I'm about

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Speaker 1: seventeen years old. I need a record. So I go

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Speaker 1: up there and I put down four or five songs

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Speaker 1: that I've written. That's about all I've written. But one

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Speaker 1: of the songs was called he was a Bluebird Blue

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Speaker 1: and I put it down and came on back home,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't too long that I got a call

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Speaker 1: from Tom Stafford. He was kind of the head guru

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Speaker 1: up there at that little view. It was over his

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Speaker 1: father's drug store that he had a little studio. And

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Speaker 1: he said, Dan, he said, you've got a song on

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Speaker 1: the charts. No kid, what is that? He said, He's

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Speaker 1: a Bluebird blue by Conway Twitty. I said, he cut that?

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Speaker 1: He said, he cut it. He said, and it's going

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Speaker 1: up the charts. You moved in ten places next week.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I'm calling he is, is you need

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Speaker 1: to sign up with bm I And if you do,

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Speaker 1: since you're moving that much next week, they'll they'll frought

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Speaker 1: you some money. Do you need some money? I said, yes, sir.

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Speaker 1: He said how much you need? I said seven hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: He said, I've seend it right on down. Well what that?

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Speaker 1: What that number? How I came up seven hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: I had. I had been down to my uncle Ruben's place.

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Speaker 1: He would live just right by us in the country,

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Speaker 1: and he had to rebuilt the nineteen four Chevrolet. He

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Speaker 1: had put a V eight in it and everything. You

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Speaker 1: couldn't tell it that anything had ever been done to it,

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Speaker 1: and I tried to buy it. I said, don't agree

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Speaker 1: with why you take this car. He said, it ain't

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Speaker 1: for sale. Really, no, it ain't for sale. I knew

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Speaker 1: he used it would sell anything, you know. But so

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Speaker 1: I said, well, well, if you're gonna send it, reckon

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Speaker 1: what you'd have to have. Now, this is back when

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars was a lot of money. And I said,

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Speaker 1: what what do you think you'd have to have if

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Speaker 1: you was gonna send it? He thought of that, he said,

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Speaker 1: he knew I didn't have any money. I'm just a country.

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Speaker 1: Bought that and he said, ah, if I was gonna

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Speaker 1: send it, I'd have to have something like seven hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: So I went on and I got and I blew.

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Speaker 1: I got that call, you know, And so I go back,

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Speaker 1: I get my check in, I cash it. I go

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Speaker 1: back down to Uncle Ruben and I say, I mean,

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Speaker 1: how are you damn what? What's what's he up to?

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Speaker 1: I said, oh, I just came after the cheval Alcorim

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Speaker 1: and he said what Chevron? I said, this one part

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Speaker 1: right here? He said, I told you it wasn't for sale.

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Speaker 1: I said, yeah, but you also said, but if she's

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Speaker 1: going to said it. You might take seven hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: for it. He said, I say that. I said, I

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Speaker 1: I thought you did. But I said, but if you

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Speaker 1: don't want to send it, that's okay. But I started

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Speaker 1: putting my money out by that time, you know, not

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Speaker 1: kind of showed you my money and shuffling around a

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Speaker 1: little bit. And he looked at me, and he looked

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Speaker 1: at that car, and you look at that money. You

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Speaker 1: go around and around. Finally grabbed that money. He said,

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Speaker 1: I'm a man of my word. So I got my car. Um.

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Speaker 1: They didn't pay me much for the song, but I

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Speaker 1: did make some b and by okay, a couple of questions.

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Speaker 1: Did that car treat you right? As a beautiful car?

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Speaker 1: I didn't treat it right. You know, I'm very young

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Speaker 1: and very crazy. I made and I have to say, uh,

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Speaker 1: it treated me rod it it never but you got wrong.

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Speaker 1: I'm okay. Yeah, I told the chrome off. Uncle Ribbon

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Speaker 1: had fixed it up some knives. It was a little

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Speaker 1: two tin forward door, had the little had the little hubcaps.

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Speaker 1: Uh you could drave it. You never think he had

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Speaker 1: a V eight But it was a brand new fit

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Speaker 1: to six V eight with overdrive up here and it

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Speaker 1: was sweet, sweet sweet, and I started hot rodding and

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Speaker 1: pulling this off and taking that off, and changing his

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Speaker 1: and changing that. Finally one not the hood blew up

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Speaker 1: in despair. I traded it off. So wish I wish

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Speaker 1: I had a kick it? Well, certainly today, let's go back. Also, okay,

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Speaker 1: was there music in the house. What inspired you to play? Well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had we had daddy. Daddy had a guitar and

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Speaker 1: he was playing it all my life. You know, I

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Speaker 1: could hear him playing it, and sometimes you know he's

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Speaker 1: saying stuff like prawl line frae, you know those old

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Speaker 1: Jimmy what's his name, Jimmy Rogers, Jimmy Rodgers, those kind

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Speaker 1: of songs. He would do those kind of songs. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes he would have electric guitar player coming in from

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Speaker 1: like Winfrey that's like thirty miles to the east somewhere

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Speaker 1: like that. There was a guy had a black electric guitar. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you know that was something else, and he'd played with Daddy,

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Speaker 1: and then my school teacher played fiddling. He'd play with Daddy's.

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Speaker 1: But there was front poet all the way. You know,

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Speaker 1: they never played a gig. They just played on the

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Speaker 1: front poet or the black poet, and they enjoyed music.

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Speaker 1: And Daddy was he was a song leader of the church.

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Speaker 1: Mother was a piano player in the church, and so

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Speaker 1: I had music all around. And when I got about nine,

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Speaker 1: he bought me a little silver tongue guitar, and I

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Speaker 1: would said when they played, and I trying to try

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Speaker 1: to be a musician too, but I couldn't play the chord. Finally,

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Speaker 1: when I got about fifteen, I got Daddy to show

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Speaker 1: me open chords at least. And so when I when

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Speaker 1: I got them up a little bit, I started playing

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Speaker 1: his Gibson something. It was a lot nicer, you know.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's a forty nine. He bought it new,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't know, maybe about nineteen fifty six

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Speaker 1: or seven he gave it to me, gave me to

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Speaker 1: Gibson maybe Ala Jambo Boy. It was sweet, and I

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Speaker 1: had it in the trunk of my car and I

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Speaker 1: came to Nashville. I got got to took out of

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Speaker 1: my car, so I wish I could find that one. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you're first instriment is the guitar. What inspires you

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Speaker 1: to write songs? Well, what inspires me is what's always.

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Speaker 1: It's the fact that I'm going to make a commitment,

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Speaker 1: whether it's to myself or to somebody else. I could

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Speaker 1: if me and Spooner are gonna get together, or men

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Speaker 1: or somebody else if we get together, I ain't a commitment.

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Speaker 1: I may not have anything. There's no inspiration yet, there's nothing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'll have an idea. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: call a songwriter sessions when I don't even have anything.

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Speaker 1: I just always pray, Lord, if you can't give it

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Speaker 1: to me, give it to him. And and you know,

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Speaker 1: usually somebody walk in with something, either an idea or

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Speaker 1: they can just sit down on a pin and play

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Speaker 1: the right chord. And I'm often running. I make a

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Speaker 1: commitment on spot to write a song today. And you

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Speaker 1: know we used to do okay, But back when you

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Speaker 1: were a kid, what inspired you to write songs? All?

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Speaker 1: Just the idea that I wanted to write a song.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, I remember I plowed a

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Speaker 1: muw daddy. When Daddy went to work at that plant.

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Speaker 1: He uh about me. When I was nine years old.

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Speaker 1: He he sold his two new left fit. He had

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Speaker 1: all the plows and the muse and he farmed, but

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Speaker 1: when he went to work the plant, he decided he

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Speaker 1: would get me a one MW up fit and keep

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Speaker 1: me busy. He didn't want me to to go wrong,

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Speaker 1: you know, so he wanted to keep me busy. So

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Speaker 1: you know what was the question? Question is when did

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Speaker 1: you start writing songs? And what was the inspiration for that? Yeah? Okay,

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00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: so I would hear Hank Williams on the radio and

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Speaker 1: other people on the on the radio, and while I

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Speaker 1: was plowed, I couldn't remember exactly the words. So I remember,

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Speaker 1: I remember making up words to John Buloh. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I could make up my own words when I when

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Speaker 1: I ran out, I couldn't remember. I still can't remember lyrics.

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Speaker 1: But that's the first thing I remember about writing a song.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the other first part I don't. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember. Well, let me ask you this. Did you

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Speaker 1: have a dream of making music your life as a career. No,

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Speaker 1: I can't say I did. I was. I was. I

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00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: was too young. But you know a long about my teens,

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Speaker 1: early teens. You know, I started here in l A. C.

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Speaker 1: John Are and all these guys playing black music, and

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Speaker 1: that really parked my ears. I mean I. I was

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Speaker 1: used to church music. I would saying with oh Daddy

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Speaker 1: and him into church. But when I heard the Black Stuff,

355
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: it was different, you know, and it's like kind of hip.

356
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Speaker 1: My switch on a little bit. And men, here comes

357
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Speaker 1: to Elvis and all those guys, Jerry Lee and Elvis

358
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Speaker 1: and Charlie Rich and all those fifties guys. I really

359
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: loved all that, but then they always started making old

360
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: movies and I kind of fell out of that that

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Speaker 1: deal right there. I didn't much like that anymore for

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Speaker 1: a while. And then here comes Ray, Charles, and Ray

363
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: turned us all along. He turned on every Southern singer

364
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Speaker 1: and we all wanted to sound just like Ray. And

365
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: I could sound pretty much like Ray. Ah, I could

366
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: sound like Ray and Jane Bryan and Bobby Blue Blaine.

367
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: But one night in Birmingham, Alabama, after my show I

368
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: was playing six nights a week, I went to another

369
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Speaker 1: club that stayed open later and I walked in and

370
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Speaker 1: here's the guy up there playing will Be three and

371
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Speaker 1: his name is Charles Ray and he saund exactly like Rachel.

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Speaker 1: I said, my love, you know where. So this is

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Speaker 1: a lucid proposition. So one long after that that I

374
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Speaker 1: got in with fame and I started looking for my

375
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Speaker 1: own voice. Okay, A couple of questions on the Conway

376
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Speaker 1: Twitty song. Did they take any of the ownership or

377
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: do you own all the publishing on that? Well, that's

378
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: a Actually I never got paid for the poishtion and

379
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: I think the game Conway of the post and I

380
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: don't I'm not sure. But anyway, you know, I just

381
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Speaker 1: let it go. I said, Hey, I got my b

382
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: M I got my door over in the music business.

383
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: It's okay. I mean, I don't like to have all

384
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: the money, but you know, you don't get everything all

385
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: the time. And so. But it wasn't but about a

386
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: dozen years ago that my friend Donnie Fritz, who just

387
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: passed away, Uh, come to me and Danny said, Dan,

388
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: I've got the publish into Bluebird. He said, I'm gonna

389
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 1: give it to you. I said, okay, give it to him.

390
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: So he signed over to him, and uh, so that's

391
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: come home. Of course, there's nothing happening, but I got it.

392
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Speaker 1: You know. Okay, before you beat Billy Sheryl, how much

393
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: are you gigging around? You're talking about playing six seven

394
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: nights a week. Were you doing that frequently that's a

395
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: little bit later than okay. So after after the Conway

396
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: twitty hit and after you get the car, what's your

397
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: next move? Well, you know, I was playing a lot

398
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: of little high school gigs. But I had a little

399
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: high school band. I had a piano player and a

400
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: guitar player and the drummer, and so we played some

401
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: has to hops and stuff around. After I got the car,

402
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: started date my wife and who came out to Linda,

403
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: Linda Pounders, and later we married. And but it's hard

404
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: to say, you know, I just did the teenage stuff.

405
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: So how did you end up going to fame? Well

406
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: it was Billis Sheryl. He said, play me a song.

407
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: He said, we've got a studio up in Florence. From

408
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: what we might cut a record on you. When I

409
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: went up and I put these songs down and and

410
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 1: then went on with the car thing and everything, and

411
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: somewhere along there, I was playing six nights a week.

412
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: I was I was drinking a bit. You know. My

413
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: mother didn't care for that. Uh, I ain't came in

414
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: from Dallas, Texas. She said, let me have him send

415
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: him over here, let him stay with me. He'll get

416
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: a job we'll we'll see what we can do with him.

417
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: So I did. I went to Dallas. We're in the

418
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: Fit four show, and I got a job at Coach

419
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: Barry Him. I was a mail or a clerk like

420
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: my daddy, and so um they went along real good.

421
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: I've worked in that place about a couple of months.

422
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: I was doing okay, pretty good, pretty good hand. I

423
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: reckon they they seem to like me. And it was winter,

424
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: and Dallas is cold in the winter. So I drive

425
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: my fit for ship right down to the parking lot.

426
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: Then I had to walk over to the coach Barry

427
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: Him and which was not too far, but enough to

428
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: get you cold. And so anyway, I'm I'm working. I'm working,

429
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: And I started dating a little girl out there, and

430
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: we ended up in a little dairy queen or something

431
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 1: like that. One night we started to get a comb

432
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: or something, you know, and and I'm sitting on these

433
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: two little guys a lot younger than me, out on

434
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. They had a little guitar amp and a

435
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: little electric guitar and a mike, and they were singing

436
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: employee and having a big time. And all of a sudden,

437
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: I got so lonely for the music business, and I

438
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: just wanted to sing something. I gotta had. Asked the guy,

439
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: I said, you mind about playing you get tart? I

440
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: want to say one song. He said, no, that's fan.

441
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: So I sang a song. I got back in my car.

442
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: I took that girl home. I turned in my notice.

443
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: I said, okay, that's it. They's see the music or nehew.

444
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: So I came back to Alabama and married Lindon and

445
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: you know it, and I went to Fame. Right after that.

446
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: I went to Fame and I asked her just give me.

447
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: I went the muscle shows, and I asked around about Rick,

448
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: because Rick was always the one ricka Ricka, and so

449
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: I asked about Rick and his father in law. He said, well,

450
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: he's down in the studio. I said, what worries that

451
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: he's told me? And I went down there and I

452
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: found Rick. Rick was one of the people in that

453
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: studio up there at Tom Stafford, so it was Billy

454
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: Rick and Tom stuff. So anyway, I find Rick. Now

455
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: this is a few years later, maybe two years later,

456
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: after you better move on, he had already cut that

457
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: on the author And so I found Rick walking around

458
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: on his cement pad. I said, hey, Rick, what's you doing?

459
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: He said, I'm building my studio, he said. The next

460
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: thing I was mouth. He said, why don't you come

461
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: to work for me? I said doing what? And he

462
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: said writing song? Because he knew I had as a

463
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: bluebird blue and there wasn't too many kids walking around

464
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: and had a hit at my age. I said, what's

465
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: that page? He said twenty five bucks a week. So

466
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: so that was a lot of money back then, don't

467
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: you know? It seemed like nothing now? But twenty five

468
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: week plus I played on the weekend, I made an

469
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: another fifty. Hey, I'd make it seventy five bucks. Of course,

470
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: I didn't get home with much of it, because, like

471
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: I said, I was drinking. But anyway, i'd go down

472
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: to the garden one day that I told I told daddy.

473
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: I said, Daddy, I'm moving to Florence. And he said

474
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: that what are you gonna do? I said, I'm gonna

475
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: write songs. He said, uh, I don't know nothing about

476
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: writing songs, son, he said, but if you, if you

477
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: want to, i'd get you on where I'm working making

478
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: the same thing. I'm I'm making forty dollars a week,

479
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: I said, daddy, you might a hold on to that job.

480
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: I may need you, but right now I gotta go

481
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: give this a try. Listen, I understand, go do it.

482
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: So I didn't went to mood to Florence, and it

483
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: took me five years. I mean, we go up plenty

484
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: of good songs in those five years, but it took

485
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: five years to get the time your puppet, which was

486
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: a big head. And you know, I was always doubtful

487
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: up until that point about all this songwriting and stuff.

488
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: So after that, I said, Okay, you're a songwriter. Don't

489
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: look back, keep on going. And That's what I've done.

490
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: I've just kept on triding alone. Okay, so you're he

491
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: built the studio, you're a songwriter. For those five years

492
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: other than writing songs, you do anything else at the studio?

493
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: Do you play, do you cleaned, you worked the board?

494
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: Or you just a songwriter? Well it all came down

495
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: and around sixty four the band that Rick had in

496
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: the studio was David Briggs and Huttingham and Jerry Carried

497
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: that also happened to be Dan Penn and Apolar Bears.

498
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: We we we traveled in a hearse and we went

499
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: to all these fraternity parties at Alabama and Auburn, Missippi State,

500
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: all around the South, and we played those every weekend.

501
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, these guys were great. Now

502
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: they were a great band, and they were great in

503
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: the studio. But all of a sudden they got a

504
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: call from somebody up here in Nashville and they wanted

505
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: them to come to Nashville to be, uh be the

506
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: session players, the new Bunch. So then they went to Nashville.

507
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting in my car looking at the doorway

508
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: of Fame and and I'm kind of I'm kind of

509
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: kind of sad, you know. And I'm sitting there and

510
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, what have you got to be sad about

511
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: there at the door. Why don't you just walk through

512
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: that door and learn everything you can about studio, about songwriting,

513
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: about record production, about engineering. Don't you learn all you

514
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: can about that and keep on writing songs. And so

515
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: that's what I do. Walked in there, and I started.

516
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: I started hanging out other people's sessions, like the people

517
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: from Atlanta would come in Tommy Road, the town's people

518
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: like that. And I was a gopher, you know, I

519
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: didn't have anything on the session, but I'd say, you

520
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: need cigarettes, you want some burgers, I go get them,

521
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: and suddenly I was part of the session, you know.

522
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: So so I started watching everything I could have sobered

523
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: it and and it was quite a lot. And you know,

524
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: that's that's what makes me what I am. I mean,

525
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: I know how to do that apart. Okay, so how

526
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: does I'm your puppet come together? Well? I just bought

527
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: a little twelve string Stella guitar. Never had one before that.

528
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: I bought one, little little brown one, had a sweet

529
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: little sound. And you know, we have spent a way

530
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: over the studio right and fixing it right, and I

531
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: just break out that little stella and I started ding

532
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: ding ding ding ding dinging, and he starts throwing cowords

533
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: out of me. Thanks thing. I know, I'm singing about

534
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: a little puppet because it sounded that way, and it

535
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: was called the puppet. Strange, we get you. I'm the puppet. Okay.

536
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: So it's the puppet all the way through. And I've

537
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: always like things that were called the the letter the puppet. Anyway,

538
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: these guys, these guys go up to James and Bubby

539
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 1: purified Dan Shoulder brought them to fame, and I get

540
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: the gig. By this time, I'm the second engineer, and

541
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: so I'm engineering on I'm Your Puppet with the Pure

542
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: Fire Brothers. And they had going upstairs like many artists did,

543
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: and found on a song and they kind of changed

544
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: it around a little bit, you know, they put they

545
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: put it I'm your Puppet. Think they took it up

546
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: about a click or two on the speed. I wasn't

547
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: real crazy about all that. I thought, well, they're missing

548
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 1: with my song. You know, when you're young, you don't

549
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: want anybody playing around with your music. Uh. Later I

550
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: found out everybody does. But anyway, I engineered the record,

551
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't thank too much of it.

552
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: Later it came out on the radio. I heard it,

553
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: said him, great, I thought. Then when they sent me

554
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 1: a check, I said, that's my favorite version. Okay. So

555
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: how do you meet Spooner Roldham, same little place I

556
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: met everybody I met? I met all the Paul Bear's

557
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: Rick band, I met Spinner, I met Fritz, I met

558
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: everybody that I ever met in muscle shows at that

559
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: little studio up there, uh Tom Stafford's little place. It

560
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 1: was called spar Music. So I met Spinner up there

561
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: and he was laid back cat me and Donnie Fritz

562
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: and wrote a couple of songs and Spinner. I've seen

563
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: him play it, and I heard him play it, and

564
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: I like the way he played. And we became pretty

565
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: good friends. And we started hanging out right and sun

566
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes we'd write two songs to night.

567
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes two out of two was pretty good. Sometimes you

568
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: didn't get anything, but most times we did. So I

569
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: met him way back there. Okay, when you were writing

570
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: all these songs, that theme was anybody cutting them and

571
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: they were stiffs, or you just cut demos and nothing

572
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: happened to him, basically that cut demos and nothing happened.

573
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 1: You know, I said, we're righting all these songs pour

574
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: nights a week, you might say, and so let's just

575
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 1: say what average two songs. That's eight songs. That's eight

576
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: songs a week. We ended up with like a hundred

577
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: two songs, you know, and at that point not too

578
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: many people were coming. I mean, you know, some of

579
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: Tummy Road cut on here. Well, we got a backside

580
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: on everybody, Everybody's got the Blue. We had one called

581
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: sorry I'm Late Lisa. Not a very good song, but hey,

582
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: my politics because we were in Rick House, uh production company.

583
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: We got the cut. That's the way things happened in

584
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: the music business. You know, you get a cut because

585
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: somebody knows somebody or you know somebody and they like

586
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: you and they look kind of like your song and

587
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: they want to hip you out. So we we got

588
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: cuts like that, We got backsides and we gotta we

589
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: gotta Joe Simon cutter too, Let's do it over. It

590
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: wasn't a big record, but it was a good record

591
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: and we we we got the puppet and then Percy's

592
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: Sledge came along and cut some of our songs, and

593
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: and then other black artists. So you know, Rick would

594
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: come to me and say, I got this guy I

595
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: want to cut next Tuesday. I need something up tempo

596
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: or whatever. And so I would go to work and

597
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: sometimes I would tell Splender most time, and I said,

598
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: we need en up tempo for this guy. And we

599
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: would come up with something that he had cut. And

600
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: Wilson Pickett, you know whoever come in to the studio. Uh,

601
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: we got cut so like that, and was Spooner on

602
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: Rick's pay roll too, Yes, he he was also five

603
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: week when we first started, right and he wasn't, but

604
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: Rick sent him a little bit later and we were

605
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: both on his play room. Okay, so what's the next

606
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: step after I'm your puppet? Well, a lot of cuts,

607
00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: but finally I could say I was a second edge here.

608
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 1: So so Rick Hall came to me one day and said,

609
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: Dan today at two o'clock because he's a black guy

610
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: coming in here to try out. He wants he wants

611
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: me to hear him, and I can't be here. Would

612
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: you put down a tape on him? That's what? So

613
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: around two o'clock here comes Percy Sledge, you I did

614
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: not know, and two more guys friends of his, and

615
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: they were dragging to be three organs, complete with Leslie,

616
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: and they came into the studio. I threw up a

617
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: few of my action and I cut this one song

618
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: and it was something like all love your baby, and

619
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: he had this descending cord line, which is what a

620
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: man love. Well the way it got there with some

621
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 1: friends of mine, but i'll tell you about that. But anyway,

622
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: so I put him down and next day I played

623
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: the tape to Rick. I said, Rick's guys, great, you're here.

624
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 1: So I played it to him. He said, I don't

625
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: think so I said, really, I said, you know what

626
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: like this guy? He said, Now I don't. I don't

627
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: hear it. Dan, I don't hear it. And I said,

628
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: let me tell him I want to produce him. I

629
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: don't do that either. And at that point, you know,

630
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,359
Speaker 1: I'm young. I'm trying to take a step further. I've

631
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: done everything I can do in the studio. Sup I

632
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: hadn't produced any records. So you know, my little brain

633
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: starts clicking along. About that time, I run into a

634
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: guy named Chip's moment and h he had a studio

635
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: of Memphis. I went up feel a little been a

636
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: few days with him and who became good friends. And

637
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: my contract was coming to an end. He had a studio,

638
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: and so I went to Memphis to go to work

639
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: for American studios right, and I went to have a cause.

640
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: I thought I could produce a record. And I added

641
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: him in my in my mind, in my heart that

642
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: I was going to cut ahead. Don't ask me how

643
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: I know these things, but back then I knew. I

644
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: just new things sometimes, you know, And I knew I

645
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: was gonna cut ahead. And so I told Jips, me

646
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: and him I'd gone around co producing, so to speak

647
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: some stuff, and but basically he was cutting it and

648
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: I was doing, oh yeah, I don't know about that.

649
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: And finally I told him, I said, look, I want

650
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: to cut a record by myself. I don't want you

651
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: anywhere around or nobody else. I'm going to cut ahead.

652
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,959
Speaker 1: He looked at the kind of funny he said, okay,

653
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: I said, give me your worst startist. I don't care it,

654
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: don't have to be anybody. I was really really putting

655
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: myself out there every time I did that back then,

656
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, pretty forward. So he walks. He said, okay,

657
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: here's this little group. You can talk to them. So

658
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: they came to the studio and they had a regular

659
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: little band and they had this vocalist and he was

660
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 1: carrying on, cussing a little and basically upsetting the vibes

661
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 1: in the room. And I told their there their manager.

662
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'll cut him, but bring me another singer.

663
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: I can't work with this guy. So I said, number

664
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: four song on this rail, right, he have and learned

665
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: this song, and meet me here back here ten o'clock

666
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: two weeks from saturday. Okay, they go away, and you

667
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: know what to do. Get another singer. So the next

668
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 1: that Saturday that they supposed to come. They walked right

669
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: in with Alex Shieldon, whom I've never seen or heard of.

670
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: I believe he was right around sixteen years old, and

671
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: he knew the song. He said it meticulously. Just the

672
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: talent right out of the box. You know. It's a

673
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: nice guy. We're easy to work with, and you know,

674
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: we cut We cut the letter that day and I

675
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: thought it was a pretty good little record. But my goodness,

676
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: it was one of the records of the years. You know,

677
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: it was quite a quite a time. Okay, how did

678
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: you find the letter? The song? Wayne Carson Chips gave

679
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: me a tape they had, uh Like Wayne Carson, a

680
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: great songwriter, had given him the tape and he had

681
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: a lot of songs and I'd heard them all, but

682
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: I liked that letter, so I got it from him.

683
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: But I picked out the song. And okay, was the

684
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: arrangement on the demo, like how you cut it? Well?

685
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: The guitar, the little licks on the front, dude down

686
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: there down there that was there Layne had played. But

687
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: the but the horns and the strange and the airplane

688
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: I put on airrowin so harfway there Okay. The interesting

689
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: thing is all of Alex Chilton's vocals with the Box Top,

690
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: except for maybe Neon Rainbow, are completely different from the

691
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: ones he had with Big Star. His voice was gruffer.

692
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: Can you tell us how you got that? Vocal? Just

693
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: came out of him. I had nothing to do with it.

694
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: I don't know. I never did hear a Big Star.

695
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: I don't know what they sounded like, but I think

696
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: it was like some of that stuff he played me

697
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: back then. It was kind of like flower Child music.

698
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: It was much softer and uh, kind of hippie music.

699
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: I thought so, so I didn't do any of those

700
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 1: so so later he did all that with a Big Star,

701
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: but I never heard it. Okay. So the other thing

702
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,720
Speaker 1: about the letter, it's one of the shortest hit records

703
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: of all time. Did you real I said when you

704
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: were cutting it? No, I just I just I just

705
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: cut how much Wayne had given me. There was a

706
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: minute fifty eight or something I said on his demo,

707
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: and I didn't think much of it. You know, back then,

708
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: we had a we kind of had a wall. We

709
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: to twenty to twenty was you it never need to

710
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: go any fur them to twenty All the program directors.

711
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: Anything over to twenty was. I don't know about that,

712
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: but this was a minute fifty eight. I didn't think

713
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: much of it. Later I said, that thing ain't but

714
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: a minute fifty eight. But you know who that was

715
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: a great thing because jocks could play it and in

716
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: a few minutes they could play it again right to

717
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: get paid again. Okay, so you cut it, you immediately

718
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: know it's a hit record. No, Now, I knew it

719
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: was a pretty good record. Chips told me. I plented

720
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: to him one night. He said, we got you a

721
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: pretty good little record or pie. And he said, if

722
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: you'll take that airplane off, And I said, I got

723
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: me a razor blade. And I picked the type up

724
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, I'll cut this tape right off

725
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: the reel if you don't like it. He said, oh

726
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. I'm just he said,

727
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: it's your record. I said, thank you, that's exactly red,

728
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: it's my record. So so I got my way, and

729
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: it would have been the same record without the airplane.

730
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, those guys in Vietnam, you know, when they

731
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: heard that, they just melted. They want to go home.

732
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: I don't blame them. So how did the record become

733
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: a hit, well, just overnight almost, you know. Uh, the

734
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: old records picked it up and pressed it and put

735
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: it out. And I don't know how it became a

736
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: hit other than the fact that somebody started playing it

737
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: and then somebody else and they started playing It's the

738
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: same old thing, you know, but it got some promotion,

739
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 1: it was worked on, and uh, I just became a

740
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: pretty much overnight. Okay, you mentioned Vietnam. How do you

741
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: get out of go into Vietnam? Well, I had a

742
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: little football energy and injury. I told Daddy. I said

743
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go out for football. And it was math grade.

744
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: He said now, he said, you're too little. You will

745
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: get hurt. And I waited about a hundred fift you know.

746
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: I said, now, I'm tough, Daddy, I ain't gonna get hurt.

747
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, you get hurt. He said, I don't

748
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: want you going out. So I said, okay, So it's

749
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: a small town, you know, so word it gets around.

750
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: So I decided to go out for a cheerleader. Now

751
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: I didn't not want to be a cheerleader, but I

752
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: knew Daddy was here about it. So anyway, I went

753
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,479
Speaker 1: out for a cheerleader. I didn't get it. I made

754
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: some arrangements, I forgot my yail. This all kind of

755
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: stuff I did to keep from being and surely, but anyway,

756
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: when I got home that day, then he said, son,

757
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: He said, come here. He said, if you want to

758
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: play football that bad you know, out there and hit it,

759
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: He said, but you're gonna get hurt. Well I didn't.

760
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: I didn't think much of that. Like I said, I

761
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,959
Speaker 1: was tough. I thought, so I go out on the foot.

762
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: We got spring training. So I go out on on

763
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: the field and I picked out the biggest guy out there,

764
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: and I said, I will body will show him the boss.

765
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: So I picked up the biggest guy and we were

766
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: doing hit on, hit on, tackling and can't hit me?

767
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: Big guy twice to belease me, he hit me, and

768
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: I felt something kind of gilt, but I didn't think

769
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: much about it because I was tough, you know. So

770
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: I laying back up, and just as I was getting

771
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: back up there and just a boy ready to hit

772
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: him again, I said, I raised up as a coach.

773
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: I think I hurt my arm when I hit this guy.

774
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: I want to go. He was talked. He talked like

775
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: that Brooks Johns, he said, catching stax Penticton's infirmary, and

776
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: I think he broke his down arm. And sure enough

777
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: I had two places, but I broke it up around

778
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: the shoulder and down in here too. And they didn't

779
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 1: even want to see me in Montgomery. They just sent

780
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: to They just sent the the X ray in the

781
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: next thing under I didn't have to go that he

782
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: may find. Well, so now you cut the letter, it's

783
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: a gigantic kit. Where does that leave you? In chips

784
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: his eyes and opportunity wise, well, all of a sudden

785
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: I had cut the biggest record in American studio. He

786
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,439
Speaker 1: didn't much think much of that. He was pretty egotistical

787
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 1: about his cutting. You know, he was a great producer.

788
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: I just happened to Lucky in Out of the Wire,

789
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: you know, hit record which I said I was going

790
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: to and uh, well, you know, they started cutting a

791
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: lot of people to him and Tommy Cogbill and I

792
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: would use the studio over at John Fry's. What's that

793
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: artist studio that sometimes I have to go there to

794
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: record my stuff the overdub I would I would track

795
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: it American, but sometimes I couldn't get in to do

796
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 1: what I needed to do, so I would take another studio,

797
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: but it seemed to kind of go downheel from there.

798
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: We h, we just didn't seem to be able to

799
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: reconcile he So anyway, I hung around for a couple

800
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: more years and a couple another year. So I just

801
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: decided to build my own studio and to leave. And Uh,

802
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: I think it mostly came from the fact that I'd

803
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: cut ahead. It was bigger than any of he is

804
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: at that time, so he was kind of a kind

805
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: of a jealous guy, you know, And so I just

806
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: split but out on my home. Okay, So how do

807
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 1: you end up continuing to work with the uh box tops?

808
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: You have more hits with the box tops? Are they

809
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: aligned with Chips? Are they part of your thing? No?

810
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: They were, they were his thing. They were signed to

811
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: that company. I used up all my box top I mean,

812
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't cut anymore. I try left, so

813
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: him and tog Chips and Tommy Tog Bill started cutting

814
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: them and they cut sold eat, which was a big hit.

815
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: I tried. I lived, but you know, I didn't cut

816
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: him anymore. And then later he went to the the

817
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: Jim Dixon thing, the big Star thing, and I never

818
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: had any more contact with him until I was playing

819
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: a showdown and we rys at the Stone they called

820
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: it the Stone down there, and I was playing. I

821
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: had a little part. I was playing, and I came off, stayed,

822
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: I told my guitar, and Alex walked out on stage,

823
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: got my guitar and carried it off stage for me.

824
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: And we had a good time that night. We talked

825
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: and we were good for friends. And uh, you know,

826
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: some of them said he was mad at me, but

827
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: he never had a reason. We always got along. Okay,

828
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: you cut me on Rainbow. I love that song. Tell

829
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: me the story on that. Okay, that was just one

830
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 1: of the first the first album and I love that song.

831
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: Was another White Carson song, and I just love that

832
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: who Lilt, you know? And I thought it was a smash,

833
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 1: but you know, it only sold about a half a million,

834
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: which which wasn't you know the four million on the

835
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: letter initially. And all of a sudden, I get a

836
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: call I'm done at the world fare and send him

837
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: tone me and Wayne and actually we're on our way

838
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: to Mexico with our lives and h so we are

839
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: we were down there. I get it. I called into

840
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 1: the Bail Records. I was supposed to check in that again,

841
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: and I called him and I said, okay, what's up.

842
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 1: They said, well, me on Rainbow's coming off the chart.

843
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: It ain't setting really no, it's not selling. So the

844
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: half a million I saw, I said, well, a good

845
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: bit and he said, no, that's not nothing. What the

846
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: other song gone? So suddenly I'm on. I'm kind of

847
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: you know, they're expected me to come up with another letter.

848
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: That's when. And nobody was sending me And he saw

849
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: Wayne and quit setting me songs. Nobody would send me songs. Uh,

850
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: they just weren't coming my way. And I called Sputter

851
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: and I said, we got to write to the next

852
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: box top of it. Okay, fine, he said, so we

853
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: get together on anyway, if we get together on a

854
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: Tuesday night, I had set the session up from maybe

855
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 1: Thursday morning. Got to all the guys called and go

856
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: cut it America and figure men, Spooner would come up

857
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: with a song. Well, we just tried and tried and tried,

858
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 1: and we'd tire up paper, throw it in the can,

859
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: and we drank coffee and we did all kinds of

860
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: stuff trying to come to a place that we had

861
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: to hit nothing nothing. Finally, in despair, we decided, as

862
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: but let's go home, he said, right. So we go

863
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: across the street to this little barbecue place. It was open.

864
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: It was thirty six in the morning, and we walked

865
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: in and we ordered were setting it. We're setting it

866
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: a little booth and you know, just out of no

867
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: wor Sputter put his head over on the table. I mean,

868
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: he said, I could cry like a baby. I said,

869
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: what did you say? He said, cry like a baby.

870
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: That's a spoon, that's it. It hit me just like

871
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: a lightning boat. And then he hit him, and certainly

872
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: we were alive. Now we had just about died, but

873
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: we were alive. I told her chat, I said, just

874
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: keep the money. I thought it was the money. I

875
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 1: should keep the food. We don't need it now. So

876
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: here we go back across the street and I got

877
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: the key in the studio. Always had us cheated the

878
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: studio whatever studioized that. And so you know, time we

879
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: got to the key to the to the lock already had.

880
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: When I think about the good love you gave me,

881
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: I cry like a baby. To tune in, we go,

882
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: I said, Sputter, get to get to get the the

883
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: B three back on, I'll turn on the the board

884
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,439
Speaker 1: and stuff. We've just been in there. You know, there's

885
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 1: still So we turned it on and and I put

886
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: on a quarter inch reel, a quarter inach tape, a

887
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: big wheel, and we wrote the song. How that reel

888
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: was was recording. And when we came back in the

889
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: control and heard it, I said, I ain't leaving this building.

890
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: And this is about seven in the morning. He said

891
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 1: me neither. And you know, we just washed our face,

892
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: drank another cup of coffee and waited him out, waiting

893
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: for the band that came in come in. And when

894
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: Alex heard that, he said, all right, So he was.

895
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: He was really in the cry like a baby. Can

896
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: you tell that day? How long did it take to

897
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: actually cut it? Well, it took about two hours. We

898
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 1: might have you know, we we got sounds and then

899
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 1: we got We probably went through it three or four times.

900
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 1: And it was a three track. America was three track

901
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: at that time, so I had all the ban on

902
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: one track, I had Alex on one track, and I

903
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: had an empty track and that's where I put my

904
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:11,919
Speaker 1: horns and strange right there. And at the end when

905
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: Alex had quit singing. I had a little space. That's

906
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: where I put the airplane. Okay, so now you build

907
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: your own studio. Where do you build your studio? There

908
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: in Memphis? Uh over on what was that stream Highland

909
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: Highland Street of beautiful Sounds. It was a good studio.

910
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: But I never did do much over there. Uh I

911
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: cut nobody's food over that on myself, and I did

912
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: a record on B. J. Thomas that never come out.

913
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: But I was not a businessman, still ain't. But and

914
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: I'm still doing a bit of drinking. And eventually I

915
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: lost the studio. You know. Ever, you don't ever gain

916
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: until you lose something, you know. But I learned a

917
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: lot in that exchange. So but I had about I

918
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: had about the land in the building, so I didn't

919
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: lose everything, but I did lose my equipment that I

920
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: put in there. But you know, like I say, I'm

921
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: no business man. I can do business, but I don't

922
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: really know how. Now you say you learned a number

923
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: of things, can you tell us a couple of things

924
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: you learned? Well, you just learned sometime not to trust people.

925
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: It's bad and it's sad, but you know, you've got

926
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: to get things rolled down on the piece of paper

927
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: if you're gonna claim your part. So I learned that.

928
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: I learned that you can't drink on the job. Uh.

929
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: I learned that business just ain't gonna come in just

930
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: because you're kind of hit. Okay, the studio closes what

931
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: you're moved. After that, I came. I came to Nashville. Uh. Well,

932
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: I guess I had a little studio there in Memphis

933
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: in a little carriage house back there a year, maybe

934
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: a year or two, and it was a little forward track,

935
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: and I've wrote songs and put them down and hang

936
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: out there. But then we moved to Nashville and send

937
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: me fo the December, sent me forward. Okay, So you

938
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,959
Speaker 1: have a number of hits. How's your economic situation, because

939
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: you talked about not getting paid by Conway Twitty song.

940
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: Are you making enough or in the down periods are

941
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 1: you're scraping by? Well? You know, I was making okay

942
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: until when when Martin Luther King got killed the Memphis

943
00:59:54,880 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: and that changed everything. Well, the black singers quick coming

944
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: to the to the white armed studios, and then it

945
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: just went downhill, and I would writing for all these people,

946
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: you know, and so suddenly they didn't need my songs.

947
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,439
Speaker 1: They weren't fair. And so there was a big, big

948
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: space there that I just didn't write much. I was

949
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 1: kind of kind of mixed up during that point. I

950
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: didn't know just what my next move was going to be.

951
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: But I came to Nashville not to be a country writer,

952
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: but just just to be some kind of writer, you know.

953
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I was trying to keep on going and

954
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: and during that time, I wouldn't do it really that

955
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: as you say, I wouldn't I wouldn't flush with money. Uh.

956
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: Around seven I came here and seventy five, around seventy eight,

957
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: Linda walts is n tells me I need to take

958
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: the I need to take the bringing off the phone

959
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 1: in the garage. I said why, She said, that's five

960
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: dollars a month. She said, we're we're running low. We

961
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: need to just cut everything we can out. And I said, okay, okay.

962
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: So I went long after that that that the Commitment

963
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: movie came out and they had cut Do Right Woman

964
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: and Dark down the Street a good job on him too.

965
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: That with those people did a great job, little Irish movie.

966
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: And suddenly they started sending me checks again, you know,

967
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, maybe we're not through. You know,

968
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: there's all kind of doubt. Can can feel your mind

969
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: when when you're not writing. Okay, so how does uh

970
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,440
Speaker 1: reath end up cutting? Uh do right Woman? Well, I

971
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: have back in sixty seven. I believe sixty seven. I

972
01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: guess six d nine. Well I just left. I guess

973
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 1: you're sixty seven. I left muscle shows in sixty six

974
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: and come to American in Memphis, And so the moment

975
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: and I running around together, we wrote Dark on the

976
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: Street and uh do Right Woman, kind of you know,

977
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: close space, and uh so he got cold to play

978
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: guitar on the Aretha Franklin. She was Don't Cut It

979
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: fame and he was a great gutar player at that time.

980
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 1: And uh so I said, hey, I'm going to You know,

981
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: we were we were parted, so I've jumped in and

982
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: went to But right before we went down there, we

983
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: put a little tape down and just see him playing

984
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: guitar and me singing dark and the streaming do right Woman.

985
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,439
Speaker 1: So we get down to most of the shows and

986
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: they cut I Never Loved a Man the Way I

987
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: Love You, which was a big hit and we all

988
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: knew it and everybody knew it, and they knew it

989
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: so well that everybody started drinking a little and before

990
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 1: you know it. So anyway, Mr Wex and Jared Waxer

991
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: came to me. I'll go back to that in a minute.

992
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: But he came to me and said, hey, damn baby,

993
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: he said, I'll cut that, do right, song said? She

994
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: played it to me. I want to go, okay, but

995
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: there's no words for the bridge. I said, well, we

996
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 1: can get you some words. Uh okay, I said, just

997
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: give me a few minutes. So I went over to

998
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:37,439
Speaker 1: this little closet and I'm over there and I'm trying

999
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: to come up with something, all right, So I said, well,

1000
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: what's your favorite song? And I had to say it

1001
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: was It's a Man's Well. So that was my favorite

1002
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 1: song at the time, and that's one of my favorite ships.

1003
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: And so I said, well, they say it's a Man's World.

1004
01:03:55,480 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: Wrote that down. Now I'm stumped again. Mr X, I

1005
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: can said in the door, said hey, Dan, honey, baby,

1006
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: what you got from me? I said, that's what I got, Jerry,

1007
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: they say that this Man's World. He said, I've got

1008
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: your next part. I said, what's that? He said, But

1009
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: you can't prove that by me. Note that, Dawn, I said,

1010
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: thank you, Jerry, And then you know, I've got two

1011
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: lines now. And the next thing I know, Reatha sticks

1012
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: curiad in the door. Hey Dan, honey, what you got

1013
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: full wreath? And I said, this is what I got.

1014
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: Reason they say that it's a man's world, but you

1015
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: can't prove that by me. She said, I've got your

1016
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: next part and I said, what's that? She said, as

1017
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: long as we work together, baby, shows some respect from me.

1018
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: I wrote that down. Thank you a Wretha. All of

1019
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: a sudden we had words for the bridge. So now

1020
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,760
Speaker 1: I gotta go out and saying she she she likes it,

1021
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: but she she is not ready to make a commitment

1022
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: to sing it. So now I gotta go sing the

1023
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: pilot vocal in her key. She had found her key,

1024
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: and man was it high. It was way up there.

1025
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: So I go out and I'm doing the pilot and

1026
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: when we run through it about once, maybe the twice

1027
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: second run through, and then all of a sudden, I

1028
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: look around and everybody's gone, and I'm standing at the mic,

1029
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: and I go, what's this? And so find it? I

1030
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: think when the secretaries came in and said Dan the

1031
01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: sessions over. I said, what's wrong? She said, Jerry's pulling

1032
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: her out of here. He's taken her back to New York.

1033
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: It's a no kid. So I said to myself, well,

1034
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 1: you're not gonna make any money today, you know, because

1035
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: it was not coming off. It was just playing down,

1036
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: you know, and the dude right, and I was way

1037
01:05:42,520 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: up high and it sanded off. And so then later

1038
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: Mr Wexford said, called everybody to come to New York

1039
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: to finish the album. Well I said, I'm going to

1040
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: So sure enough I did, and I go up there

1041
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: and just as we come out of the Heedlevate, just

1042
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: we come out of the elevator, Jerry said, Daniel and

1043
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: Chips come with me, and we went down to the

1044
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: Atlantic Control room and he played as the do Right

1045
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 1: Woman with the wreath of players piano, her and her

1046
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 1: sisters singing. It was big time magic. It still is.

1047
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: I play it nine, it's like, wow, what a record.

1048
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: And when it left Alabama, it was it didn't even

1049
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: what name nuts Moats, it was just nuts. We'll then

1050
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 1: to get that in a minute. Okay. So, uh, you know,

1051
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: having been to a couple of these places, the radically

1052
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: different I mean, Nashville is very different from Memphis. I

1053
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: haven't been to Muscle. Soul has been to Alabama just barely.

1054
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: Can you tell us the difference between all those places. Well,

1055
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 1: I can just say you in recording, uh, recording language,

1056
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: Muscle shows well, Memphis, let's go in Memphis. Memphis is

1057
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: down on them on the Mississippi River, and it's just

1058
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 1: so such a magical city. It was really before Dr

1059
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: King got shot, but it was when I rolled in

1060
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: there at sixty six. It was clean, it was magical,

1061
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: and you know, you could look in some of those

1062
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: ladies eyes and I almost get song. They carried songs

1063
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 1: in their eyes. And and then you come to Nishville

1064
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: and Nashville and it's like low. It's like it's got

1065
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: the low mids and the base and the middle and

1066
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,480
Speaker 1: some highs but not over highs. You come to Nashville

1067
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 1: and it's it's a wonderful place to record also, but

1068
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: it's it's up in the it's more mountains, it's in

1069
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: the high end of things. You still can get the base,

1070
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: but you need to go direct because it's not the

1071
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:04,439
Speaker 1: same recording air that Memphis has got. It's different. Sea level,

1072
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: sea level see the sea level is different, and then

1073
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: you go down to Muscle Show and it's just almost

1074
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: in between them. So Muscle Shows it's a fantastic place

1075
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: to record because of the sea level. It's down a little,

1076
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: but it ain't down its flow. And then New Orleans

1077
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 1: does don't even lower. You know, the Memphis and and

1078
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a lower sea level. It's

1079
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 1: a great place to record, but my favorite place is Memphis. Okay. Now,

1080
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: ultimately after you leave, there's a schism in Muscle Shoals

1081
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: where Barry Beckett and those guys start Muscle Shoals Sound Studio.

1082
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: Do you have a take on that? Well, I wasn't around,

1083
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: but I do know kind of what happened. You know,

1084
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: they went over and built their own studio with the

1085
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: help of Jerry Wexler. He was and behind that because

1086
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 1: I guess him and Rick had had a few following

1087
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 1: out things. But anyway, they built their own studio and

1088
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 1: Jerry started setting people there, and people started coming there,

1089
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 1: and they cut a lot of hit records in that

1090
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: a little place. But you know, that's about all I

1091
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: know of it. They did go on down later to

1092
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 1: the river and built a bigger studio. That's where I

1093
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: cut do right man, So you know that it was

1094
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: a happening thing. But Rick got You know, you can't

1095
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: stop Rick Hall. He would he just he just looked around.

1096
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: He got a bunch of other music and he kept

1097
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:45,840
Speaker 1: on going. He got some more writers. He you can't

1098
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 1: stop him. You know. I couldn't do that. I couldn't

1099
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: put just put put a band together just because I

1100
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: needed them. I mean, I couldn't do it because the

1101
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 1: drummers probably gone quit before nightfall. I couldn't put up

1102
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 1: with all of that. But Rick could when he went

1103
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 1: through people and he would he would teach him how

1104
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: to record. And he's the daddy of the muscle show.

1105
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: Sound okay. You mentioned Dr King being shot. How much

1106
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: was racism a factor with you growing up being in

1107
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:19,400
Speaker 1: the music business, being in the South, it was zero.

1108
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: I didn't Where I came up in Vernlon, there was

1109
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: no racism. There wasn't hardly any black folks. There was

1110
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: a few lived outside of town there, but I had

1111
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: no contact with him until I got the Muscle Show

1112
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 1: to Florence and I met author Alexander and so it

1113
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 1: never was a real big never hit me in the

1114
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: face until I saw TV. Well at night, you know,

1115
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: i'd see what's happening on the TV. You know, I went, wow,

1116
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: that's strange. But really never never did affect me that much. Okay,

1117
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,120
Speaker 1: I see you're wearing overalls, and you're also wearing them

1118
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: in some of the photos. Is that a fashion choice

1119
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: or if you always warn your overalls, how do you

1120
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: decide to wear them? Well? I put a pair on

1121
01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 1: one day and it was so neat, lots of pockets,

1122
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: lots of space, just you know, I mean, I'm built

1123
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 1: for comfort, not for speed, and and and you know,

1124
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 1: I just kept going. I kept I just kept for

1125
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: wearing them. And I don't think I've warned anything else.

1126
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: Maybe a funeral. I might have war with pair of

1127
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 1: slacks to my mama's funeral. But otherwise I've got new

1128
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: ones that I wear on the show. I wear him

1129
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: on the show. But I but I do this, you know,

1130
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: I put it. I put a real nice shirt over.

1131
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 1: And if people come up and they'll say, I thought

1132
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: you were gonna wear your old wrongs, and I said,

1133
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: well I did, They said I said see, and then

1134
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,599
Speaker 1: they then they're happy. So now it's become a thing

1135
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, for my gigs, they expect overalls and I

1136
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: got them. You know, I weren't because they're there the

1137
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 1: comfortless things in this world. And prior to this COVID era,

1138
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 1: how much were you working on the road? Um, you know,

1139
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: I just take. I've always just taken what what what

1140
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 1: comes in and I booked my own stylf. So I'm

1141
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: not trying to to work every night, you know, or

1142
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: too to be a road musician. I'm not bill right

1143
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 1: for that. I always knew I wouldn't and that and

1144
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 1: working in the studio was just right for me. But

1145
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 1: before the COVID thing, I guess I was playing once

1146
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: plast a month. Oh really that much? Another question is

1147
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 1: you talk about being young, drinking, staying up all night.

1148
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: How did you keep your marriage together. I had a

1149
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: good woman better than me, and she put up with

1150
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: a lot. She still wouldn't Uh, I gave it all

1151
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: to her. She she was very good. Okay. And you

1152
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: also mentioned working lead at night. Do you find your

1153
01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 1: more creative later in the day or it doesn't really

1154
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:18,439
Speaker 1: matter later in the day. Definitely, I'm I'm no good

1155
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: in the morning for nothing. Uh. You know, back there

1156
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: at one Daddy fixed me up a mute and cloud

1157
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 1: and stuff. When he go to the becoming planet, him

1158
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: and Mama. That would be about six thirty in the morning.

1159
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: We'll be having breakfast and he'd tell me all these

1160
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 1: things he wanted me to do, and when they left,

1161
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: I'd go back to bed and i'd sleep to my

1162
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 1: common nine thirty. That's that was when my body woke up.

1163
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: And then I just run real fast all day trying

1164
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 1: to get done what he wanted. I usually made it,

1165
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: but I'm not a morning person. And I started waking

1166
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 1: up about one. Uh that on the clock, I'm pretty good. Uh.

1167
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 1: I hit my stride if if I'm writing with somebody

1168
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: around midnight, and we're good for a while. And so

1169
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,559
Speaker 1: if you're not writing, if you're in the COVID era,

1170
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: what time do you go to bed? Oh? I go

1171
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 1: to bed about eight o'clock, but I'll watched the tube

1172
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: two until I fall asleep. Okay, And to what did

1173
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: we are you writing with other people over these last

1174
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,680
Speaker 1: few years? Well, not not as much as I was.

1175
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: I used to would write with anybody, and you know,

1176
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: I'd ask them if they didn't ask me, just a

1177
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: stranger somebody that wrote, and we get together here in Nashville.

1178
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:43,599
Speaker 1: I wrote with a lot of people that lived here,

1179
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: but pretty soon that that kind of run than to me.

1180
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get, I wouldn't want, I wouldn't getting much

1181
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 1: out of my gut. It was mostly coming out of

1182
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 1: my head, uh brain, songs all thought up. You know,

1183
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 1: a good song writers. But you know, lately I hadn't

1184
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 1: been with Spoon or a good while. We're going to

1185
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: probably get back together one of these days. But I

1186
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 1: wrote one one song with Buzz Chasing for this album,

1187
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 1: particularly far, And then I wrote two songs with Will McFarland,

1188
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: the guitar player on this album, two new songs and

1189
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:28,520
Speaker 1: three with him, and I wrote two songs by myself,

1190
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: which is kind of odd, but I wrote him, and

1191
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: that's why I got to that here. Hey, you got

1192
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: some songs here, and you've got a few laying around you, like,

1193
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 1: why don't you cut a record? Okay, that comes full

1194
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: circle before we get to the conclusion, though, What is

1195
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: it about writing with someone else that is so appealing? Well,

1196
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:55,719
Speaker 1: it's fun. It's more fun these people who can write

1197
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 1: by themselves and have fun. I don't know about I

1198
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 1: don't I can't do that I mean, you know, I

1199
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: write one every once in a while by myself. I

1200
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: get serious enough to write a song by myself. But

1201
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: if I'm writing with somebody else, there is a fun

1202
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 1: factor that just comes into the verbal. I mean, we

1203
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: might tell a joke, you know, if nothing's happening. If

1204
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 1: we sat here for forty five minutes and nobody hits

1205
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: the chord, nobody talks about a song idea, nothing's happened,

1206
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: we might go boating, we might go to a movie.

1207
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: We gotta keep things moving, we gotta move around a

1208
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: little bit until the time of the night is right,

1209
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: all the afternoon is right, that the idea hits somebody,

1210
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: or the chord change hits somebody, but being able to

1211
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: bounce it off of somebody you respect. Usually I try

1212
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 1: to write with musicians who are better than I am.

1213
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: I'm a fair guitar strummer. I can keep with it,

1214
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 1: but I'm not a picker. But I write with some

1215
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 1: of these people who can really play, and that's really helpful. Okay,

1216
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: you talked about crying like a baby, We're lightning struck,

1217
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:14,600
Speaker 1: and then you also talked about making a commitment to

1218
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 1: writing a song. Our songs better if they come from

1219
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: pure inspiration, or they can they be equally as good

1220
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: if you sit down and make a commitment. Hey, we

1221
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 1: don't have anything. We're gonna start right now. Either one

1222
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 1: can be just as good as the other. I mean,

1223
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 1: I think we have to pull him out of the

1224
01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 1: air when we got nothing. You know, I always looked

1225
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 1: at it that one. I mean, God's got them adel

1226
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 1: up there if you don't. If you got one and

1227
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: you don't write it tonight, somebody else. You know, we

1228
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 1: wrote down your puppet wasn't wasn't when a month went by, Uh,

1229
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: we heard this song by others. I'm just a puppet

1230
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: on a string. So I think these ideas are serpenting

1231
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 1: around up here in the in the atmosphere, some of them,

1232
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: and you can have one if you can just make

1233
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 1: the commitment. You've got to commit to do it. You know,

1234
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 1: you you can't be playing. If you commit to write

1235
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: a song by yourself or with somebody else, you're all

1236
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 1: in like a h and you might win. You know. Well,

1237
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 1: I think you've had a great commitment to your new

1238
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,759
Speaker 1: album and people should really listen to it. That's living

1239
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 1: on mercy, And thanks so much for making the commitment.

1240
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 1: To talk to me. Thank you, Bob, thanks for calling me.

1241
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob luft Sense