1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hey, this is Weird Little Guys, but 2 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: there's no new weird little guy this week. I mean, 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: there are definitely more weird little guys crawling out of 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: the woodwork every day, and I've got a couple of 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: stories about them in development, but this episode isn't a 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: new guy. Sorry about that. We're a couple of months 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: into the show now and I just wanted to take 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: a minute to do a little navel gazing. So this 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: is just a little mini episode to check in on 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: how it's going, talk about what we're doing here, and 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: shoehorn in some fun facts and odds and ends that 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: got left on the cutting room floor of past episodes. 13 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: If we're being totally honest here, I just didn't get 14 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: it together this week. I lost a few days of 15 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: research and writing time to a trial at the beginning 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: of this month, and lost another couple of days to 17 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: travel for a family obligation this week, and it just 18 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: didn't come together in time. I thought I had a 19 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: topic that I could turn around quickly, but sometimes a 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: story that seems really straightforward turns out to be anything. 21 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: But I found a surprising and strange twist to a 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: story that I thought I knew, and I wanted to 23 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: give it the time it deserved to flesh it all 24 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: the way out. So we're doing something different this week, 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: but the timing is pretty good. We're about three months 26 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: into this thing, and I have some reflections on the 27 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: process so far. I think the biggest realization I've had 28 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: so far is that I may have overextended myself a 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: little bit. If that wasn't obvious in what I'm doing 30 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: right now, what was I a person who dropped out 31 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: of college, mainly because I have a very adversarial relationship 32 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: with the concept of do dates thinking. When I signed 33 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: up to write what is basically a twenty page research 34 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: paper every week, I mean, just a baffling decision on 35 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: my part. But I think it's going okay, don't you. 36 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a fourth wall in podcasting, 37 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: but if there is, I'm kind of constantly knocking on it. 38 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: I'm always right there on the edge of the story. 39 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: I'm telling you. There will be a few stories I 40 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: tell you on this show that I am reluctantly, accidentally, 41 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: haphazardly actually in not just as the narrator but as 42 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: a chaotic little sidecarre And this little episode is sort 43 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: of a meta commentary on the storytelling process. So I'm 44 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: busting through that fourth wall like the kool Aid Man today. 45 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: I totally get it. If you're not into that, you 46 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: can just come back next week when I have a 47 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: whole new Weird Little Guy for you. But in the 48 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: years I've been doing this kind of work, I've always 49 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: been in conversation with the audience, and it feels so 50 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: strange to me now that I'm adjusting to this new 51 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: medium of podcasting, just not to have that at all. 52 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: Those conversations weren't always good. I'll refer you back to 53 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: the comment I made a second ago about being an 54 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: unwitting side character in some Weird Little Guy's journeys to 55 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: Federal prison. But I always felt like I was telling 56 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: a story to people who were speaking back to me. 57 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: I was getting their reactions and their input and their perspectives, 58 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: and sometimes that is part of the story while I'm 59 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: still telling it. And maybe that's a weakness or a 60 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: flaw or a dead giveaway that I didn't go to 61 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: journalism school or whatever, but it's the way I know 62 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: how to do the work that feels meaningful to me. 63 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: And I'm too old to change now. I alluded to 64 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: it a bit in the minisode honoring the anniversary of 65 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: Heather Hire's death back in August, but my introduction to 66 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: covering court cases and the weird little guys at the 67 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: center of them came from my own personal need to 68 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: understand the men who came here to Charlottesville for the 69 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: Unite the Right rally in twenty seventeen. When the handful 70 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: of men who'd been charged for the acts of violence 71 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: they committed that day first started appearing in court in 72 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: late twenty seventeen early twenty eighteen, I was coincidentally unemployed, 73 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: so I had a lot of spare time to go 74 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: to and just watch. So I did, and I started 75 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: doing it just for myself. I didn't have a lot 76 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: going on, and I wanted to see. I wanted to know. 77 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was I needed to know, 78 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: or how I was going to find it out, but 79 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: I had the time, and I just sat and I watched, 80 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: and I started posting about what I was observing online. 81 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: I guess that's very millennial core of me, but I 82 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: realized very quickly that there was a hunger in this 83 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: community for information about those proceedings that was more personal, 84 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: less detached than the coverage that was being offered by 85 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: traditional media outlets. I mean, if you just wanted the facts, 86 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: there was plenty of news. National outlets were still sending 87 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: reporters to a lot of those hearings, but there's something 88 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: missing from that kind of coverage. People wanted the facts, 89 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 1: of course, and I did my best in those early 90 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: days to get those facts right. But they wanted more 91 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: than that. They wanted to be in conversation with those facts. 92 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: They wanted to be informed, but they wanted to be 93 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: angry too, and they deserved to be. They wanted to 94 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: know the ugly truth about what was going on, but 95 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: they wanted it presented to them in a way that 96 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: felt affirming and grounded in what they already knew to 97 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: be true. They wanted to feel heard and to ask questions, 98 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: and they wanted to know not just what, but why. 99 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: And I did too, So I did my best to 100 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: collect every detail and to make myself available to provide 101 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: context where I could, and comfort if I could. I 102 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: took on the role of audience surrogate for people in 103 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: my community who couldn't spend all day in court. I 104 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: hate to doubt myself as someone who reads the comments. 105 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: It's very embarrassing, but I am and I've seen some 106 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: feedback that some listeners don't care for what they call 107 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: my habit of editorializing, putting my own voice and my 108 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: own judgment and my own feelings into the story. There 109 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: were some reviews taking issue with what they believed to 110 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: be a put on affect, this melodramatic flourish and the 111 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: way that I speak. That is, unfortunately just the way 112 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: that I talk. And I've got a pretty thick skin 113 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to things like death threats. But I'm 114 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: surprisingly sensitive to what is completely sane and valid criticism. 115 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: You know, some weird little guy can post online about 116 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: how he wants to carve his name into my chest 117 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: and fuck my corpse or you know whatever, and I 118 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: can take that in stride. But a perfectly normal person 119 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: thinks I talk too fast. That's going to send me 120 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: into a spiral. You know, I'm working on that, Okay. 121 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: I am pacing myself. I've been doing exercises where I 122 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: practice reading my script with the timer I'm trying. So 123 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: I did sit with that feedback about my narrative style 124 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: being too personal or too emotional, and ultimately I decided 125 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: to disregard it. This is the only way that I 126 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: know how to tell stories that weigh heavily on the soul, 127 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: because I learned how to do it while trying to 128 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: tell stories that were deeply personal for me and for 129 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: the audience, I was communicating them too, And because I 130 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: learned how to tell these stories in that context, I 131 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: know it's important. It's not for everyone, and that's okay, 132 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 1: and it's not better than or even a substitution for 133 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: more traditional journalistic approaches to telling these kinds of stories. 134 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: But there is a place for this kind of storytelling. 135 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: I'm a human being trying to make sense of the 136 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: world that we live in, and I hope that I 137 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: can try to help you do that too. I don't 138 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: just want to present you the facts of a case, 139 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: the timeline of a story of a man's life, of 140 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: a trial. I'm not just showing you the most fucked 141 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,079 Speaker 1: up thing I can find for shock value. I want 142 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: us to try to understand what all of this means together. 143 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: When I take you on these little journeys into the 144 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: story of some weird little guy, we aren't just staring 145 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: evil in the face for something to do. We're taking 146 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: its mask off to really understand a moment in history 147 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: and to place a particular guy into his proper context. 148 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: There is one moment in my work that I have 149 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: held on to like a life preserver. On the days 150 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: I find myself asking what am I even doing? Is 151 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: this worth it? What am I adding to the world 152 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: by doing this at all? And I hope this person 153 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: doesn't mind me sharing it. I don't know who they are, 154 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: so I can't ask. It's something so close to my 155 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: heart that I almost don't want to let it out 156 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: into the world. I don't want to cheapen it or 157 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: wear it out by saying it out loud. See this 158 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: isn't actually my first attempt at a podcast. Back in 159 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, James Alex Fields Junior went on trial for 160 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: murder for Heather Hire's murder, and for two and a 161 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 1: half weeks, I sat on a bench in a courtroom 162 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: that was too crowded to hold the people of Charlottesville 163 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: who were desperate to see some approximation of justice done. 164 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: So I sat on that bench and I took notes 165 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: furiously for eight hours every day. I think I gave 166 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: myself carpel tunnel, and then I came home and I 167 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,239 Speaker 1: wrote a script, and then I recorded a little episode 168 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: on the floor of my closet because it was the 169 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: only place in my apartment where you couldn't hear the 170 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: noise from the cars outside. And I was recording and 171 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: editing until three am every night, and then getting back 172 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: in my car a few hours later to go back 173 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: to court. And I didn't know anything about podcast editing. 174 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: I still don't. I don't do that, and I didn't 175 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: do a very good job of it. I really just 176 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: cut out the parts where I was audibly crying. It's 177 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: still online somewhere. It's not very good. I'm not recommending it. 178 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: If that trial happened today, I would write that story 179 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: very differently. I wish I knew then what I know 180 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: now about the law about writing, about editing, about storytelling. 181 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: But I did the best I could. And it wasn't 182 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: meant for everyone to hear. It wasn't for all of you. 183 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: It was a labor of love for my community, for 184 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 1: people I knew needed to hear those facts, but from 185 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: someone who cared about them and would treat them with 186 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: a fierce gentleness, someone who understood that they were afraid 187 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: and wounded and angry, and someone who were did their 188 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: right to be that way. They wanted to know the 189 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: boring little details of what happened inside that courtroom, but 190 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: the cool, neutral detachment of a nightly update on CNN 191 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 1: felt like a slap in the face. So I did 192 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: my best, and I found myself asking those questions a 193 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: lot that month. Why am I doing this? I'm not 194 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: even good at this. What does it add to this 195 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: glut of coverage of this trial for me to do this, 196 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: for me to try to tell this story and to 197 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: put this out. It was a long, brutal and gruesome trial. 198 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: There was graphic testimony about blood and tissue embedded in 199 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 1: the shattered windshield of the car. Doctors showed us X 200 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: rays and autopsy reports. James Alexfield's junior was being tried 201 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: not just for murder, how they hire, but for the 202 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: injuries he'd caused to eight of the dozens of people 203 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: badly injured in that attack, And each of those eight 204 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: victims testified about their injuries. I tried to treat each 205 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: victim with the care and tenderness they deserved, not just 206 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: choosing the most salacious details about the horrors they'd endured. 207 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: And then one night I got a message from a stranger. 208 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: It was about the podcast. This stranger, this gentle soul, 209 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: had been one of the street medics who was there 210 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: on Fourth Street when it happened. They had rendered aid 211 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: that saved people's lives. They were understandably pretty traumatized by 212 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: what they'd seen that day, and they were having trouble 213 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: consuming coverage of the trial. But someone had passed along 214 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: to them a detail that I had included that had 215 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: been left out a lot of other coverage of the trial. 216 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: This street medic had a crystal clear memory of the 217 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: moment they covered a woman's compound leg fracture so she 218 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: couldn't see it. Amidst the chaos and the screaming and 219 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: the blood. They had the presence of mind to make 220 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: sure that this woman they did not know and would 221 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: never see again, didn't have to see her own bone 222 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: sticking out of her flesh. And they did the best 223 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: they could with the medical supplies they had on their 224 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: backpack to splinter leg and to stop the bleeding and 225 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: to keep her calm until an ambulance came, and then 226 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: they went home. They didn't know that woman. They didn't 227 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: know her name, there was no way to follow up, 228 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: so they'd been left wondering for more than a year. 229 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: Was she okay? They'd lost sleep asking themselves, did I 230 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: do it right? Did I help her? Can she walk? 231 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: Did I make a mistake in that moment that costs 232 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: someone their mobility? And when that woman took the stand 233 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: a trial, she testified about the medic covering the bone 234 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: sticking out of her leg. She said she didn't know 235 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: how bad it was until she got to the hospital, 236 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: and she said on the stand that she's okay now. 237 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: She has a metal rod in her leg, but she's okay. 238 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: She can walk without pain. Her life isn't over, She's 239 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: moving on. And that wasn't headline news. It was just 240 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: nine minutes on the stand. I know it was nine 241 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: minutes because I bought a little digital watch all those 242 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: years ago, and I still obsessively timestamp my handwritten notes, 243 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: marking the time several times per page off in the margins. 244 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: She was one of nine witnesses who testified that day alone, 245 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: and the brief moment in her nine minutes of testimony 246 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: where she said she's okay now didn't make it into 247 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: the newspaper, it wasn't on MSNBC, it wasn't in the 248 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: wire stories. But for someone out there in the world, 249 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: it was everything. It was closure and it was peace. 250 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: And for six years, that single moment of peace that 251 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: I got to give to a stranger who had risked 252 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: their life to save someone else's has been a north 253 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: star for me. It's a lighthouse in the storm when 254 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 1: I can't remember why I'm writing anything at all. And 255 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: now years later, I'm not just writing about local cases 256 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: for a local audience, but I try to carry that 257 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: same level of responsibility to my audience with me. I'm 258 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: trying to weave together stories of terrible men who did 259 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: terrible things in a way that shines a light into 260 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: the darkness, rather than leading you into that darkness and 261 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: leaving you there to fend for yourself. I'm not always 262 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: going to get it right, I know that, but I 263 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: promise you I am agonizing about the ethics of this 264 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: work to the point of madness. I'm doing my best, 265 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: and I want to navigate what that means for us 266 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: collectively together. So that's all I have to say about 267 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: my personal style of narration today. But this is an 268 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: ongoing conversation, and it's one I'll never be done having, 269 00:18:48,440 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: and I'll try to have it with you. There are 270 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: a lot of things about podcasting I did not know 271 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: when I started doing this show, and some things I 272 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: didn't even know enough to know I didn't know them. 273 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: It didn't even occur to me until I was a 274 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: handful of episodes deep that I forgot to tell you 275 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: who makes the show possible at all? God bless them. 276 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: None of them said anything to me about it. I 277 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: left myself a little reminder to record some kind of 278 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: closing credit segment, but it's buried under a stack of 279 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: other reminders for things like change furnace filter and email 280 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: National Archives about that transcript again, both of which I've 281 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: been meaning to do for weeks now. Actually, I'm going 282 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: to get up and change that filter right now. While 283 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, and while I'm checking things off 284 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: my to do I have to take a little sidebar 285 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: to gush a little bit about the team at Cool 286 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: Zone Media. This show would not exist at all if 287 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: executive producer Sophie Lichterman hadn't come up with the idea. 288 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: Given it its name, convinced me that I could do 289 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: it convinced the network that I could do it, and 290 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: then held my hand for months while I figured out 291 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: what She already knew that this show was the perfect 292 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: way to tell these stories. Maybe she just wanted me 293 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: to stop derailing other conversations with my excited outbursts about 294 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: some new weird guy that I found, and she thought 295 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: she could get some peace if she found me another 296 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: outlet for that. And the show wouldn't get done every 297 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: week if not for supervising producer Ian Johnson. There's so 298 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: much business stuff that happens that I am blissfully unaware of. 299 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: I don't know how the show gets into your phone. 300 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: I just type my little scripts every week. I think 301 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: Ian takes care of the rest of that. All of 302 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: the research and note taking and conspiracy theorizing and writing 303 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: is done by me. Apparently some podcasts have like a 304 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: separate guy who does the research. But even if such 305 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: a guy were to present himself to me, the research 306 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 1: is my favorite part. I would never let that go. 307 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: The moment each week when I have to close my 308 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: two hundred browser tabs and stop researching so I can 309 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: start writing is always bittersweet. How I wish I could 310 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: do twice as much research and half as much writing, 311 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: to be honest. But if that's all there was to 312 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: the show, just research and writing, it would be unlistenable. 313 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: Every week I read my little script into my microphone 314 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: in my home office and I think, oh, no, oh, 315 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 1: that was a mess. I'm thinking it right now. I'm 316 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: reading into my little microphone in my home office. It's 317 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: three in the morning, and this file is late, and 318 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh, no, you know, I'm retaking lines fifteen times. 319 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: I burped into the microphone more times than I'm willing 320 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: to admit. I'm so sorry, Rory. I'm always having to 321 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: stop and look up something like how to pronounce some 322 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: town in Michigan, because you know, they don't say it normal, 323 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: and I know I'd never hear the end of it 324 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: if I just read it, assuming they would say it 325 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: like the rest of the world, like myland, Michigan. It 326 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: says Milan. It says Milan. That's a city we've all 327 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: heard of, but it's Mylan. And there are still, to 328 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: this day takes that have to be cut because you 329 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: can hear my voice thickening with grief. That's the sound 330 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: of the tears threatening to spill over it's someone else's 331 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: job to edit that out now. But if it ever 332 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: stops happening, I think the show is over. If I 333 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: can do this without feeling it at all, then my 334 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: heart has gotten too hard and it's time to stop. 335 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 1: It's time to close my laptop and walk away and 336 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: walk into the sea, because I've lost my humanity. But 337 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: every week, somehow, my editor Rory Gagan returns to me 338 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: something that I barely recognize, something all cleaned up and beautiful, 339 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: with perfectly placed music beds. And that music, I've seen 340 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: so many listeners asking about the opening theme that was 341 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: created just for the show. Why the incredibly talented Brandon Dickert. 342 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: This is another one of those podcasting things that I 343 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: never even thought to wonder about. But of course, course 344 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: it's someone's job to make custom music for a show. 345 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: And when Sophie told me it was time to brainstorm 346 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: what kind of music we wanted for the show, I 347 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: completely froze. How could I possibly know what kind of 348 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: musical vibe I'm trying to create here? I mean, how 349 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: is it even possible to describe a sound you've never heard? Like? 350 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: I know music can evoke an emotional response, but the 351 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: idea of reverse engineering. That is like asking me to 352 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: translate hieroglyphics. It felt impossible, What does that even mean? 353 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: So I sent her a bunch of very stupid ideas 354 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: and she was very patient with me. I had a meltdown. 355 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: I was googling things like spooky sounding music, Comma not 356 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: scary and whimsical spooky tunes. I just panicked and I 357 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: sent more a bad ideas And I've just gone back 358 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: to my email now to see what it was that 359 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: I finally came up with that was good enough for 360 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: the experts to work with. And who was a bulleted 361 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: list that says Twin Peaks theme interstitial music for an 362 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: evil NPR broadcast, a riff on the X Files theme, 363 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: question mark, David Lynch's Elephant Man theme but more lively, 364 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: and Tim Burton spooky but goofy, something like Danny Elfman. 365 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: And I could not have had such good luck if 366 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: I planned it. Brandon Dickert wrote back, I play in 367 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: a band with the bass player from Oingo Boingo, so 368 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with the Elfman vibe. What he's just 369 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: casually in a band with John Avila, No big deal. 370 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: So when people compliment the music, and I say, I know, 371 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: isn't it incredible? I'm not tooting my own horn. I 372 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with that. I'm just so impressed 373 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: and grateful for the theme Brandon Dicker wrote for me, 374 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: and as for the show itself, I think I'm getting 375 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: the hang of it. One problem I will absolutely never 376 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: have is a lack of ideas. I am never going 377 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: to run out of guys. There are, in fact, entirely 378 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: too many guys. I have a running list of episode 379 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: topics i'd like to get to that's a year long already, 380 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: and every week my research into one weird little Guy 381 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: turns up at least one or two new options for 382 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: guys who probably need their own episode. If anything, the 383 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: problem is I lose a whole day of research time 384 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: every week to tracking down some strange loose end that 385 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: really just needs to get added to the list for 386 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: a future episode. And every weird Little Guy I do 387 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: get to is just bursting at the seams with strange 388 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: facts and side stories that end up cut because I 389 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: just don't have the stamina to weave together every thread. 390 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: When the first episode came out, I was kicking myself 391 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: because I forgot to include a particularly funny little tangent 392 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: that episode was about Kevin alfred Strom, the neo Nazi 393 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: pedophile who was the original source of a quote often 394 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: misattributed to Voltaire back when he got arrested for possession 395 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: of child sexual abuse material. He's actually living here in 396 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: the Charlottesville area. A strange coincidence. I suppose it really 397 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: makes you wonder what it is about this place that 398 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: attracts Nazis. But two years after he completed his very 399 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: brief federal sentence, he started a blog. And that's not 400 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: really surprising. He was an early adopter of the format, 401 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: and he'd been running the online publication for the neo 402 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Nazi organization National Alliance for many years. He has a 403 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: lot of websites, so Kevin Strow making a website isn't 404 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: the surprising thing here. But this one didn't have his 405 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: name on it. In fact, he didn't want anyone to 406 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: know that it was his website at all. It was 407 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: made to look like a local news website for the 408 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: Charlottesville area, and it had a number of posts about 409 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: innocuous local goings on. This was back in twenty ten. 410 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: That was the year that we had a really wild 411 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: late season snowstorm just unbelievable amount of snow for this area. 412 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: So there were a couple of posts on this quote 413 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: unquote local news blog about the weather, about enforcement of 414 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: the city's snow removal ordnance, and the giant mountain of 415 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: snow in the Barracks Road shopping Center parking lot that 416 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: we all called Mount Chipotle for months before it finally 417 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: melted away. But mixed in with these low stakes, low 418 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: cool public interest stories and what looked like a high 419 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: school essay about the film Nosferatu written by his teenage son, 420 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: there were a couple of opinion pieces about how this 421 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: Kevin Strom guy really isn't so bad and you know, 422 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: he was railroaded by a politically motivated prosecution because of 423 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: his pro white beliefs. And aside from a few weirdly 424 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: personal attacks on Strom's ex wife and those uncomfortable pro 425 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: pedophilia op eds, the site was like seventy percent normal. 426 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: I mean that other thirty percent is really really not normal. 427 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: But most of the posts were normal, and most of 428 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: the content isn't about Kevin Strong. But the site's IP 429 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: address provides us a little clue. A lot of websites 430 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: were created using that same IP address, like a lo 431 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: like over one hundred a lot, and a lot of 432 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: those websites definitely belong to Kevin Strom because they are 433 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: things like his personal website, Kevin Alfredstrom dot com, his 434 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: Ham radio website, his third wife's personal blog, several websites 435 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: belonging to National Alliance, websites devoted to Strome's hero, the 436 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: anti semit revelop Oliver, and a bunch of Nazi themed 437 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: parked domains with no content on them, things like minecomf 438 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: dot net and Turnerdiaries dot org. Some of the sites 439 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: don't have any immediately clear connection to Kevin Strom or 440 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: obvious pro Nazi content, so it kind of looks like 441 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: he may have been earning money on the side doing 442 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: perfectly normal web development work. So I've put a reminder 443 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: on my to do list to check out what kinds 444 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: of clients we're hiring a not seed pedophile to make 445 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: their business website. In twenty ten, and for all the 446 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 1: time I spent detailing Gerald Drake's Internet activities in the 447 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: second episode one about the Civil War reenactor using a 448 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: fake anti fascist group as cover for the bomb threats 449 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: he was sending his former friends, I forgot to tell 450 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: you about his hobby of pretending to be a cop 451 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: on Reddit. I mean, his trip Advisor reviews were a 452 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: rich vein of content, from Burger King in Madrid to 453 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: five guys in Paris. The man absolutely loved to tell 454 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: you about a fast food meal in a faraway place. 455 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: And I spent hours reading his posts on the sex 456 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: Doll Forum. Quite frankly, it would have been malpractice if 457 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: I didn't tell you that the last thing he did 458 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: before getting arrested by the FBI was post about the 459 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: great customer service at a company called sex Doll Queen. 460 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: I left out some of the nastier sex doll stuff. 461 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I saw things that I wish I hadn't, 462 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: and it just felt superfluous to tell you that he 463 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: bought a doll second hand at an estate sale, But 464 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: when he, in turn was trying to sell it on 465 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: the sex Doll forum, he assured the other users that 466 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: not only had he never used it, but he knew 467 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: the dead guy he bought it from never used it either, 468 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: because he was too sick before he died, So it's 469 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: basically brand new. But I can't believe I forgot to 470 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: tell you he spent years cosplaying as a retired cop 471 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,959 Speaker 1: on Reddit dot com. He had a bunch of posts 472 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: spanning several years where he claimed to be a retired 473 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: police officer, and that's just simply not possible. He worked 474 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: for twenty five years for the Saint Clair County, Michigan 475 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: Road Commission as an equipment welder. It's not like he 476 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: has a LinkedIn. I can't pin this down with absolute certainty, 477 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: but I'm assuming he lost that job when he went 478 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: to jail for sexual imposition of a minor in two 479 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: thousand and three, and so that would mean he got 480 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: that job when he was twenty years old. And he 481 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: certainly didn't become a cop in his fifties after becoming 482 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: a registered sex offender. He couldn't even buy a gun 483 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: at a store, let alone carry one for work. So 484 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: he was never a cop, I'm really sure of that. 485 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: But he was never a Confederate soldier either. He just 486 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: liked pretending to be those things, and sometimes it seemed 487 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: like he liked imagining being a cop, like it was 488 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: part of a kind of sexual fantasy for him, like 489 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 1: in this post from twenty seventeen, pulled over a car 490 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: for speeding and as I walked up to it, I 491 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: see it as driven by the most drop dead gorgeous 492 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: blonde I have ever seen in my crummy life. My 493 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: brain overrode my mouth and I set out loud. What 494 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: was I thinking? God, I'd love to fuck that. She 495 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: heard me and smiled. She knew she wasn't getting a 496 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: ticket from me or this post, also from twenty seventeen, 497 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: did undercover and we were even allowed to do small 498 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: amounts of drugs and did hook up with the babes. 499 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: A good undercover officer becomes the creep to not be 500 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: called out. But in a lot of the posts where 501 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: he's claiming to be a former cop, he's definitely trying 502 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: to use that as a position of perceived authority to 503 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: lend more weight to his opinion. Usually that opinion is 504 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: about something really racist. On a post about racial differences 505 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: in standardized test scores, Gerald claimed that when he was 506 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: a police officer, they had a special, dumbed down version 507 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: of the sergeant's exams for black officers because otherwise they'd 508 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: never get promoted. He claimed that black officers would get 509 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: points on their exam just for spelling their own names right. 510 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: But it's worth noting that Gerald misspelled the word sergeant 511 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: in his post about this, And a lot of the 512 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: things that get left out are just these strange little 513 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: tangents you didn't even know you were missing out on, 514 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,919 Speaker 1: like how Gerald had a poshmark account that he used 515 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 1: to buy designer panties for his sex dolls. But other 516 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: things that I accidentally leave out or just run out 517 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: of room for are things that you might have been 518 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: left wondering about. Like in the Very Black episodes, I 519 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: devoted a lot of time to the side story of 520 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,959 Speaker 1: the Casanova Lounge, the only gay bar in Somerset County, 521 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania in the late nineties. But by the time the 522 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: Casanova Lounge's story ended, Very Black wasn't part of it anymore. 523 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: So I just sort of left that thread dangling, and 524 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: I did see some listeners asking about whatever happened to 525 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: Pat Kramer and her bar. The Casanova Lounge closed its 526 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,399 Speaker 1: doors in two thousand and one after a tumultuous four 527 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: years in existence. The Kramer sold the property to Madeline 528 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: and Barry Layman, who turned it into a private banquet 529 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: space for Christian events. They renamed the building Baca House, 530 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: with Baca being the Hebrew word for a half shekel. 531 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: In Exodus, Abaca is listed as the amount paid as 532 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 1: an annual temple tax for the use of the sanctuary, 533 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 1: and the building was used for church groups, baby showers, 534 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: wedding receptions, ladies, Bible studies. Around two thousand it was 535 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: started being used for actual church services, and it was 536 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: for many years a Somerset County polling location. The layman 537 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: sold the property in twenty fourteen to one of those 538 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: troubled youth outdoor adventure camps run by a former Marine 539 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: drill sergeant, but the Kramer stayed in the hospitality industry. 540 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: They opened a restaurant in another town nearby and ran 541 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: it for more than a decade before they finally retired. 542 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: In the episode, I mentioned that some of the patrons 543 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: at the Casanova called Pat Kramer mother, and as she aged, 544 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 1: she still did most of the cooking at her own restaurant, 545 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: and in her last few years in her restaurant kitchen, 546 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: her customers called her nana. Her husband, Mary at Kramer, 547 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: passed away in twenty twenty two, but Pat's still out 548 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: there enjoying her retirement. And on that note, maybe I 549 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: don't need to say this. I hope. I don't need 550 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: to say this, but please don't take it upon yourself 551 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: to find or contact the subjects of the show, any 552 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: of them. Don't find the weird little guys or their victims, 553 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 1: or their neighbors, or their families, or the side characters 554 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: and their stories. I'm not sure why that's an urge 555 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: people sometimes feel, but if you do feel that pull, 556 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: please resist it. After the Frank Sweeney episodes came out, 557 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: I saw that a listener to the show had sought 558 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: out and found a social media profile belonging to Frank's 559 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: German girlfriend, and they posted a link on her page 560 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 1: to the episode about him. And you know, if Frank 561 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: were to find this episode on his own and listen 562 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: to it, that's one thing. I have no control over that. 563 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: But there's no need to tap the glass, so to speak, right, 564 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: need to insert yourself into that process. It's just kind 565 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: of weird and rude, and it doesn't feel right to me. 566 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I can't stop you from doing it. I'm 567 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: just telling you it would be my preference that you 568 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: not do that. I try not to provide unnecessary personal 569 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: details about people, and I change the names of the 570 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: victims in Frank's story. But I don't want to have 571 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: to worry about listeners of the show using my research 572 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: to harass anyone. So enjoy the stories, talk about them 573 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: amongst yourselves, tell me what you think of them, but 574 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: please don't seek out the people in these stories to 575 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: tell them what you think of their lives, especially when 576 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: it comes to people who found themselves a part of 577 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: these stories through no fault of their own. People like 578 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: the Cramers, So let's keep in touch, you and me. 579 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm not great at that in my personal or professional lives, 580 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,240 Speaker 1: but I'd like to have that line of communication open. 581 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 1: I set up an email address for the show. It's 582 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: Weird Little Guys Podcast at gmail dot com, So if 583 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: you'd like to send me a message that's just between 584 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: the two of us, that's the best way to do it. 585 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: A lot of listeners have reached out to me on Twitter, 586 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,879 Speaker 1: either by tweeting at me or at the network, or 587 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 1: by direct message to me, and I do try really 588 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: hard to read all of your messages, but it's really 589 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: easy for those to get buried or lost in the shuffle. 590 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: But if you send an email to the show, at 591 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: least they'll all be in one place where I can 592 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: always find them again. Again. I'm not promising this means 593 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,959 Speaker 1: I'll get any better at answering anybody, but at least 594 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: this way, I'll know where all of the messages I'm 595 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: not answering even are, so I can properly orient my 596 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: anxiety about that. And if you've got something to say 597 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: about the show that isn't something you want to keep 598 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: between the two of us, you could post it on 599 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: the subreddit. I sound like, go grandma right now. I 600 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: think I'm probably not using the right Internet terminology. Just 601 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: before the show launched, Ed Zitron, the host of Better Offline, 602 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: gave me some absolutely fucking unhinged advice. Honestly, Ed he 603 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: told me that I should go ahead and make my 604 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: own subreddit for the show, that I should be the 605 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: moderator of that subreddit, and that I should engage directly, often, 606 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,879 Speaker 1: and if necessary, adversarially with the listeners. And I think 607 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: Ed does do that on his subreddit. I have a 608 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 1: lot of respect Fred, and I really enjoy his show, 609 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: but I think what I told him at the time 610 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 1: was I would rather lay down in traffic than do 611 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: any of that. As human beings, we are simply not 612 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 1: wired to know this much about what strangers think of us, 613 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: and that sounded like a recipe for madness. But I'm 614 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:16,240 Speaker 1: also very weak, and when I saw that someone else 615 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: had created a subreddit for the show, I couldn't help myself. 616 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: I thought I could play it cool and pretend I 617 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: wasn't checking in on the posts every week, but I 618 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: ended up creating a Reddit account so that I could 619 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: pop in and answer questions occasionally. So if you're so inclined, 620 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: you could go there and post your thoughts or feelings 621 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: or questions or whatever. Be nice. Though I'm not the 622 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: moderator of that space, I don't know the person who is. 623 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: But don't make their life hard. Don't make anybody's life 624 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,800 Speaker 1: hard if you can help it. And please don't be weird, 625 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: whether you're sending an email to me directly, or posting 626 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,799 Speaker 1: on the subred or leaving a review or whatever. You know, 627 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: the old thing seeing like no one is listening, love 628 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: like you've never been hurt, and dance like no one 629 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:16,359 Speaker 1: is watching. Well, I've got a slightly different version that's 630 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: been more useful to me in my life, and it's 631 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: email like you're going to get subpoenaed and post like 632 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: you're going to have to hear it read back to 633 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 1: you in a hostile tone during a deposition. Because if 634 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: you don't want to explain the joke to your mom, 635 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: your boss, or a federal judge, don't write it down. 636 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,720 Speaker 1: That's just some free life advice for you in general. 637 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: But really, please don't email me something that's going to 638 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: make you the subject of an episode. I already have 639 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: too many ideas on the list, and I really don't 640 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: want to have to put your picture on my red 641 00:43:54,680 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: stream board. Weird Little Guys the production of cool Zone Media. 642 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonmedia 643 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app 644 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.