WEBVTT - Fire Drill 071: Desert LIV-ing 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.640 It would be very clever, pr if if lived off. 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.720 All the players just said, we love the USGA. They're 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:11.600 the stewards of the game. We believe in them, and 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:13.760 we're gonna follow their lead and whatever they want us 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.040 to do, we're gonna do. Because it would be so counterintuitive, right, 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.639 you know, they're they've they've they've got all these spiky 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.760 personalities and these and these guys like to rage against 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.480 the machine like that. Would that would be a way 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:26.240 to get in the good graces of certain golf fans, 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.320 But it's just not in their DNA. I got thoughts 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:35.560 in my head. Can't get John nothing think what I'm 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:42.480 thinking about my head, can't get them out, not think 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:52.600 what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship Knuck 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:57.440 back from their Fire Drill podcast with Michael Bamberger. Mike, 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.160 thanks for doing this as always, it's a pleasure. Or 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.520 how is the travels for you? Yes, I'm coming in 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.080 hot from Tucson. I was at the live event and 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:11.880 it was edifying. You know, I've even though I've been 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.559 there so many times now, and I'm always learning more 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:19.280 about how it works. And that's their models constantly evolving 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.399 and they're making changes and a lot of us. I 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:25.920 know a lot of fans on Twitter don't seem tuned 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.920 into the results on live, and I don't think you 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:30.720 are either, Michael, which is fine. I'm not here to 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:35.800 shave anybody. But as as a business story, it's utterly fascinating, 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:37.440 even if you're not into the golf. I mean, this 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.320 is they're gonna be, They're gonna be at the MBA 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.880 program at Stanford, They're gonna be talking about this disruption 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.960 for decades. It's this happens in businesses, but rarely is 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.720 at this public and with this much star power and 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.600 all the geopolitical overtones. Like it's just a fascinating thing. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.320 So I wrote a story for a fire pit collective 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:04.120 dot com, posted yesterday after the tournament ended. It's gotten 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.680 a big response online because people are just I think 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.280 they're just happy to learn something new, because we feel like, 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.520 I mean, even me as close as I am to 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.280 all of this, all the stuff happened in the shadows, 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.720 you know, it's all that, the conversations, all the negotiations, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.680 all the deal making, the betrayals, like it was kind 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.639 of at of sight and then little bits leak out 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.240 here and there. But so it's fun to I mean, 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:29.679 I talked I don't know how many players I talked to, 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.680 but easily over a dozen. And UM got a key 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.119 live executive on the phone for about half an hour, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.040 and that's really hard to do, you know, in the 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.480 midst of the antitrust lawsuits and everything, everybody's running scared, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.560 doesn't want to talk to any reporters. UM. So it 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.919 was just it was it was great for me personally 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:48.760 to learn a lot more about what's happening out there. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:52.120 And I think, you know, readers have appreciated that that 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.919 insight that I can pass along. It's a very edifying 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.920 piece of journalism that you wrote, and it's one that 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:01.560 you're not going to read anywhere else except on our 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:07.080 website because there's no other reporter who is devoted to 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.560 actually getting the story as you are. One of the 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:13.160 probably my single biggest I'm gonna tell you what, my 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.320 biggest seakeaway always from it Allan and then and then 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.480 you wreckt My biggest seakeaway from that is that despite 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:23.000 the enormous sophistication of the Saudi business leaders who are 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.760 putting this thing together, is there is a fly by 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.280 night element to this even with the hundreds of millions 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:34.160 and bill actually literally billions of dollars invested. And what 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.240 I took away from your story is they don't really 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:38.640 know what they're doing. And I don't mean that possibly 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.880 or negatively, it's just that was my takeaway. Is that 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.960 a fair unfair? You tell me that's totally fair? Another 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.120 way to phrase it. And this is like Nicholson made 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.120 this point in his press conference. I didn't put it 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.440 in the story, but he said, things change, things evolved, 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:59.160 and we had we were nimble enough and our leadership 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.760 is flexible enough to respond to that. You know that 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.640 like in his mind, this is good governance that they're 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.760 willing to um to make these changes on the fly. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:10.640 As you say, I mean, for instance, they have kind 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.800 of this. I mean, they have a ten year plan 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.360 and the way and what they're doing this year was 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.039 really going to be for next year. But they felt like, 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.839 we have so much momentum. We've we've got we've signed 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.760 more players, and we expected to let's go all in 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.840 and and speed things up, and that's created some of 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.240 this um discord. I guess would be one word for it. 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.800 But most of the players are like, this is great. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.400 I mean we got to we're trying to get somewhere, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.120 and the faster we can get there the better. So 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:42.280 your your response is completely valid. The Live side would 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.280 would look would would point to that as as a 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.000 good leadership where you're willing to to um to update 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.760 your plans based on on how things are playing out 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:55.599 on the ground. So um, But it's both views are valid. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.400 I mean there is an element of like they are 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.200 winging it and can be good and bad and by um, 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.839 you know, to accelerate their business plan by a year. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.719 I think it was it was certainly the right choice. 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.440 I mean Live is crying out for an identity beyond 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:18.160 the Saudi money and the team thing I think has 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.080 a chance to be really compelling. I mean I've been 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.640 on I've been there now these last two events. I 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.840 actually I like the uniforms. I think it's a really 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.640 cool look and just for me personally, it helps it 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.320 burns into my brain who's on which team because you 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.680 know they've changed a lot since last year, and there 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:40.160 is a very palpable camaraderie amongst the teams, Like they 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.600 play their practice rounds together, they all set up on 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.760 the range together, they have dinners together and the way 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.800 they've organized it's it's not an accident, you know, like 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.320 the All Assie team, like they were throwing a rugby 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.480 ball around and having fun in the lobby of the 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.720 Rich Carlton. You know, these are just fun loving characters 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:02.200 and you know Kevin Nas Ironheads. It's kind of this 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.440 pan Asian team. And obviously Danny Lee got the win 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.000 yesterday and you could see his teammates they, I mean, 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.760 they look like they were emotional about it. Danny Lee 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.400 was all choked up and we hadn't won anywhere in 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.760 the world since twenty fifteen, and he said, like this 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:19.039 team has changed the way I play golf because I 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.400 can't take a single shot off because I know my 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.440 teammates need me. And it's on a very basic level. 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:27.200 I mean, the most stressed out I've been on a 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.760 golf course in the last year was you and I, Michael, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.719 when we played the Uncle Tony Invitational. Abandoned because I 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.560 wanted to play well for you. And it's a very 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.080 it's a very human feeling. When you have a teammate 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.440 you care more, you know, if I'm off playing and 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.200 just some for some buddies and we're playing for ten bucks. 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.000 If I played bad, it's on me. They're happy I 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.359 played bad because they're gonna win more money. And you know, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.440 you get down on yourself, but you're not letting anyone 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:51.880 else down. But as soon as you have a teammate, 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.080 the emotion is so different. And even these players who 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.200 are guaranteed money and they've had these long careers in 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.679 some cases like they're feeling that on a very human level. 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:03.680 And I think I think it's kind of cool. And 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.160 as you know, there's there's an all Latin American team, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.160 there's you know, the Westwood Poulter Stenson, you know, it's 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.840 these old Rider Cup of War horses, Like they've they've 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.040 grouped these teams in ways that make sense. You have 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:22.160 an all South African team, um, And you used to 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.200 see this on the European tour, right, like all the 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.720 Spaniards would would travel together and eat together and play 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.880 practice rounds together, and then they would they would use 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:31.800 these teams in the Ryder Cup because these guys had 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.680 this palpable chemistry in this history and this the shared 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.280 language and culture, and that was one of the keys 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.440 to the European Writer Cup success is that they took 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.440 these these small, bonded units of players and they use 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.920 that to their advantage and Live is kind of doing 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:50.960 the same thing. And so whether the fan at large 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.720 will ever be invested in in these results, that's the 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.280 ultimate question. But the players are and that's a big 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.240 step forward because it's gonna be hard. It would be 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.160 hard for the fans to ever care if the players 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.960 did not care, but they definitely do, and so that 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.240 was an important first step and I think that justifies 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.920 Live speeding up its model here to get more buying 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:19.000 from the players and to get them literally more invested 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.480 in their team. So that's a success for Live again, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.080 and I think it does help blunt the criticism of 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.320 all these guys have guaranteed money, they don't care. They're 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.840 just going through the motions. Like if you're on the grounds, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:34.640 you can feel how much they care and you can 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.520 see it. And I mean like on Friday when the 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.439 first round ended, you know, all the players come come 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:42.720 in at the same time, and so it's kind of 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.199 a melee around the scoring area because I won't have 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.680 to turn in their cards. And you know, Phil Michelson 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.240 saw Brendon Steel and he's like, how do we do? 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.240 What's your number? You know? It was cute like um 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.840 and you can see the players are looking for each 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:00.280 other in that area. They want to no, I mean, 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.959 there's scoreboards out there, but you always want to get 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.280 that final confirmation. And so the players are definitely invested 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.959 in the team thing. Again, the TV numbers weren't great. 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.320 Whether that's the ultimate question is whether the fans can 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.439 get there, But I think I think they made the 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:22.360 right call. It's another thing that comes out very clear 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:27.360 from very clearly from your story that's on our website today, 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.200 that they're gonna lean way more into this team concept 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.160 than we even thought thought originally. And I guess that's 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.680 also very not a guess. It's very much tied into 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.760 how the s audience can actually make some money from 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:46.320 this venture. But alan just from your own observations or 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.920 from reporting or otherwise. The tradition of team competition is 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.000 an incredibly rich one, whether it's national pride in the 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.640 Olympics or city pride like in baseball, football, basketball, hockey, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:05.360 the writer up of course continent versus country. Has there 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.040 ever been at case where teams have sort of and 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.439 I understand that they've done a very good job, very 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.400 clever of putting these groups of like minded players in 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.960 similar backgrounds together. But in terms of trent but that's 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.520 okay for them. How does that translate to fan interest? 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.040 Is there is there a way to actually do that? 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:27.640 Can you really create fan interest when the starting point 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:32.120 is we're getting the team together in the interest of 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:37.320 making money. Yeah, So that the interesting thing. The crowds 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.560 and Tucson are pretty good. I mean it's obviously Phoenix 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.720 Open is a long time tours stop. Tucson used to have, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.200 you know, the Tucson Open, which our colleague Jeff Ogilvie 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.679 one that was his first win, you know, Phil one 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.520 in Tucson when he was in college to launch his career. 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.040 It was kind of a minor stop on the tour, 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.760 but a lot of great players won there, including Arnold 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.200 Palmer and others that went away. They got the the 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.000 World match play at the same course to gallery course 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.280 for a period of years. But you know, they played 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.480 in February and they almost snowed a few times. It 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:13.839 was not it's not an easy course to walk. But 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.400 the crowds were good because Tucson has a golf history 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:21.280 and for instance, the Fireballs, which is you know, Sergio 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:25.760 Garcia and a Banswer and um you know two other 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.560 guys who whose native tongue is Spanish. They had a 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.960 good gallery of Hispanic fans out there, and you could 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.319 hear some of the some of the conversations, you know, 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.640 almost like there was some of it was in Spanish. 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:42.559 And so in that very small sample size, the model worked. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.320 You know, they group these players together because they they're 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.560 all sort of representing Latin American in some way, and 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:50.600 the fans found them and they cared about them in 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.120 a way that they wouldn't have otherwise. And I thought 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:57.080 that was interesting. Now, um, you know, I'm sure there's 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.720 some kids in Australia or South Africa who care about 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.959 the Rippers or the Stinger because they're all Australian or 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.840 they're all South African. And uh, you know, if you 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.480 grew up in a certain era and in your your 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.360 North Stars were, um, you know, Charles Schwartzel and Lui 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.360 Ustaisen and now they're teammates, um and they've been your 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.319 favorite players for a long time, You're probably going to 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.960 be a little more invested in that team. Um So, 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.040 and you know the same thing if you're an English 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.719 fan of a certain age and Lee Westwood and Ian 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.320 Poulter where you're gods like and now they're playing together, 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:37.199 and you know they have Sam Horsefield, who's another another 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.320 British gent. So I don't know, I don't know what 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.040 the scale of it is. I think they will pick 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.760 off some some fans because they've made it very tribal, 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.600 and I think that was smart. Interestingly, it's it's the 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:55.120 top Americans that that don't really have an identity so much, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.679 you know, because um, but I think Phil's kind of 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:00.800 low key, going for like a West Coast vibe. You 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.000 know that's some Brendan Steele's a California guy, but um, 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:08.200 you know that like like Bryson's team is an absolute mishmash. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:13.760 It's it's Paul Casey, it's uh narbon Lahiri uh and 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.400 um who's their fourth player? Now I'm drawn a blank. 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.440 But there's no natural kinship there right, like oh in 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.920 this Paul Casey, who's an English chant. It's like there, 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:28.199 it doesn't quite fit them. You know, who are they? 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.920 What are they? And even even their names the crushers 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.840 so that well, they're not really long hitters so that 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:36.520 doesn't work either. Like some of these teams were clearly 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.400 struggling for an identity, and I don't know how they're 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.080 going to solve that except through maybe through attrition, you 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.800 know if um, I mean, I'd love for Bryson to 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.440 go all in and get three players who who just 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.280 swing for the fences, and um, whether they could actually 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.400 score and play real golf would be would be fascinating. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.000 But um, you know, if you're gonna call yourself the crushers, 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:59.000 you can't have an Indian guy who who drives at 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.520 two sixty like Lea hear he does. It just doesn't 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.560 quite work, Like what is who are you? What are you? 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:08.520 So they haven't they haven't fully baked it out. But UM, 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.960 I don't know. It's it's gonna be um to me. 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.200 It's kind of fun and funny and the whole thing, 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.040 you know, I will say, the the merchandise, it sells 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:23.640 in small batches, like the the Bubba's team. The range 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.880 Goats has a really good logo and they have really 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.600 fun colors. And in Mexico all their stuff was sold 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.920 out by even the pro am day, and it was 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.320 gone in Tucson really fast too, Like they clearly need 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.880 more quantity. Um. Some of the stuff has become kind 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.240 of a kitchy collector's item in a way, and so 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.040 I think they will be able to sell some merchandise 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.040 and that that becomes a revenue stream. It's not a 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.040 big one, but it's something. And um, some some of 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.440 the logos and you know, are kind of awful and 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.120 I don't think anyone wants to wear them, but some 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.680 of them are well done. So um, the identities and 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.240 the branding of the teams has potential, it really does, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:04.280 but it's still a work in progress. Did you get 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.480 to catch Trinity the telecast and what were your impressions 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.080 of it? Yeah, so when I'm in the press room working, 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.360 they have a telecast on. There's no sound, which is 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.480 a kind of my preferred way to watch calf Anyway, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:22.040 I can't really comment on the commentary, but it is 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.960 the irony is that the live golf telecast is what 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.680 golf Twitter demands and bitches about every weekend. You know 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.200 that you're lucky to be immune from the discourse, Michael, 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.720 but a big, a big faction of golf Twitter is 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.720 there just to complain about TV coverage. I mean, every 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.720 Saturday and Sunday. It's just endless and not unjustified. But 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.680 I was talking to someone who's part of the live broadcast. Well, 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.000 he's behind the scenes, he's one of the shot callers, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.000 and he said they average one hundred and fifty shots 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.680 per hour and they refuse to show tappens. They never 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.480 show tappens because they think it's boring. Unless a guy 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.200 misses it, they'll show it, but otherwise notes it's one 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.560 hundred and fifty real shots and putts and that they've 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.760 they've looked into it. And on CBS and NBC the 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.160 average is fifty to sixty an hour, and so the 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.000 live telecast is like bang bang bang, like it's shot 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.200 too shot, two shot. And of course there's not the 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.400 commercial load because they don't have commercial sponsors yet, so 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:20.760 that's not totally a fair fight. But um, you know, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.720 I was especially watching on Friday, that's when I was 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.800 in front of my computer a little bit more. And 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.840 that's just that's the streaming version when there really is 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:33.840 no commercials, and it's, um, it's a dream for a 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.080 golf fan, and it's just there's no there's no filler. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.720 I mean, they are just showing golf shot after golf shot, 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.320 and on an interesting desert course where guys were hitting 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.440 you know, offline and getting in trouble and there's a 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:50.240 lot of runouts and really challenging short game shots and 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.160 there's drive all part fours. It was fun to watch. 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.800 I mean just as a golf fan, like I like 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.560 watching camp Smith play golf. I like watching Dustin Johnson, 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.200 I like watching a bands or you know, there's these 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.960 guys are mega talents and so if you can you know, 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:05.959 if you can in a silo, in a vacuum, if 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.840 you can declutter your brain from all the other things, 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.280 and you just like watching really skilled golfers. It really 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.760 interesting golf shots. Like it was great fun. But you know, 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.359 the numbers haven't been there so far, and you know 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:23.400 this year, their their ratings are very low, and um so, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.280 I guess I'm slightly in a minority opinion. But the 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.439 U I had that exact moment alan watching just a 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.760 little bit of the telecast. You see a guy over 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.960 a shot, You see a caddy and a player talking 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.520 about a shot. You see you know, you see a 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.600 player watching a putt roll to the hole and is 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.720 it in or out? Is it going to fallow or not. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.160 And it looked just like a pH two or event 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.040 except for the shorts. There were definitely moments like that, 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.800 highly skilled golfers playing golf. We've been watching that on 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.560 two baby, literally all all our lives um so at 0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:00.200 some level it is just another form of golf, you know. 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.679 And then I think the question is are you are 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.520 you going to care? Can they make you care? Can 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.760 you make yourself care? Are you so distracted by you know, 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.600 it's sort of like what Rory says. You know, we're 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.320 not just competing with Live, We're competing with TikTok. There's 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.159 so many demands for our time. It's like and I 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.000 understand that people were you know, I wrote, I watched 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.359 one episode of the Netflix series. I didn't think it 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.120 worked at all, the Jordan justin one, and I consider, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.679 like we all do my time to be valuable. I 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.600 don't care to watch anymore. So I wrote up the 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.520 one and said that's it for me. Now. People have 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.639 told me that there are many other better ones. But 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.439 the point here is that there is tremendous competition for 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:43.120 our time, and that's going to be. As you say, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.520 there's a lot of moments when it's just watching really 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:49.600 skilled golfers playing golf shots. But can you make us 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.560 care about the results? Not you, but can can the 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.960 Saudi organizers? Can Live Golf make us really care about 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:01.320 the outcome? That's all. It's going to be an enormous 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:07.200 challenge for this league, and I don't understand really why 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.240 on Sunday they can't find another way to change the 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.719 format so not everybody is finishing at once. Yeah, it's 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.960 interesting because you know, the inspiration for everything Live Golf 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.160 does is the Premier Golf League. And I've read through 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.040 the one hundred and sixteen page prospectus a number of times, 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.880 which Live leaned on heavily. And they had a shotgun 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.040 start for the first two rounds, but on the final 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.959 round they went to traditional you know, everyone goes off 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.000 the first team leaders go last. Recognizing that you kind 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.120 of want that traditional drama, that's a departure for Living 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.280 It's probably a mistake. I mean, they do send the 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.560 leaders off last, so the leaders will go off one 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.440 the guys the nearest pursuers go off too, so they 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.320 they're trying to get the drama on the final holes. 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.320 But even so it's I mean That's a another thing. 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:03.840 I like you talk about the attention span. I like 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.480 that all the players start at the same time and 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.040 everyone's on the course at the same time, and the 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.639 whole thing takes, you know, four and a half hours 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.879 and then you're done. It's a dream work day for uh, 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.199 for the for those of us in the typing trade, 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.000 and I think the fans like it too. I mean, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.080 to beat a tour event in the sun for ten 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.600 hours is that's not easy to do. And if you're 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.919 you know, we talked abouts on a previous podcast, but 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.280 all your players are that you want to watch, you're 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.800 out there and you just have to find them instead 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.880 of you know, waiting for a morning in an afternoon wave. 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:39.600 So that's one to your point that the and I 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.359 was talking to you know, I have I have four teenagers, 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.959 and we were just talking about how the media has changed, 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.320 and I was sort of lamenting that, uh, you know, 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.800 the things that I value, the the long form, the 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:56.800 richly reported pieces, whether it's on golf er, on anything. 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:58.560 And I know you're the same kind of reader, Michael, 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.440 and we have the same taste. And Olivia, my nineteen 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.719 year old, she's like, that's dead nobody cares. She's like, 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.760 if you can't tell it in a sixty second TikTok, 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:11.080 nobody cares. It was like so harsh and funny, but 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:16.200 obviously true for a growing percentage of humanity. And so, 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.320 I mean, to live's credit, they've tried to adapt to that, 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:24.240 like let's give you a more easily consumable products. It's 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.560 three days instead of four, it's four and a half 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.040 hours instead of twelve. Everybody's out there at once, and 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:32.320 you know, a lot of these things are held against 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.600 it as as a as a critique, like, oh, it's 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.200