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Speaker 1: It would be very clever, pr if if lived off.

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Speaker 1: All the players just said, we love the USGA. They're

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Speaker 1: the stewards of the game. We believe in them, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna follow their lead and whatever they want us

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Speaker 1: to do, we're gonna do. Because it would be so counterintuitive, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're they've they've they've got all these spiky

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Speaker 1: personalities and these and these guys like to rage against

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Speaker 1: the machine like that. Would that would be a way

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Speaker 1: to get in the good graces of certain golf fans,

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Speaker 1: But it's just not in their DNA. I got thoughts

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Speaker 1: in my head. Can't get John nothing think what I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking about my head, can't get them out, not think

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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about. Hello, this is Alan ship Knuck

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Speaker 1: back from their Fire Drill podcast with Michael Bamberger. Mike,

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Speaker 1: thanks for doing this as always, it's a pleasure. Or

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Speaker 1: how is the travels for you? Yes, I'm coming in

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Speaker 1: hot from Tucson. I was at the live event and

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Speaker 1: it was edifying. You know, I've even though I've been

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Speaker 1: there so many times now, and I'm always learning more

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Speaker 1: about how it works. And that's their models constantly evolving

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Speaker 1: and they're making changes and a lot of us. I

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Speaker 1: know a lot of fans on Twitter don't seem tuned

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Speaker 1: into the results on live, and I don't think you

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Speaker 1: are either, Michael, which is fine. I'm not here to

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Speaker 1: shave anybody. But as as a business story, it's utterly fascinating,

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Speaker 1: even if you're not into the golf. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is they're gonna be, They're gonna be at the MBA

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Speaker 1: program at Stanford, They're gonna be talking about this disruption

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Speaker 1: for decades. It's this happens in businesses, but rarely is

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Speaker 1: at this public and with this much star power and

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Speaker 1: all the geopolitical overtones. Like it's just a fascinating thing.

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Speaker 1: So I wrote a story for a fire pit collective

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Speaker 1: dot com, posted yesterday after the tournament ended. It's gotten

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Speaker 1: a big response online because people are just I think

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Speaker 1: they're just happy to learn something new, because we feel like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, even me as close as I am to

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Speaker 1: all of this, all the stuff happened in the shadows,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's all that, the conversations, all the negotiations,

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Speaker 1: all the deal making, the betrayals, like it was kind

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Speaker 1: of at of sight and then little bits leak out

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Speaker 1: here and there. But so it's fun to I mean,

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Speaker 1: I talked I don't know how many players I talked to,

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Speaker 1: but easily over a dozen. And UM got a key

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Speaker 1: live executive on the phone for about half an hour,

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Speaker 1: and that's really hard to do, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: midst of the antitrust lawsuits and everything, everybody's running scared,

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk to any reporters. UM. So it

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Speaker 1: was just it was it was great for me personally

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Speaker 1: to learn a lot more about what's happening out there.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know, readers have appreciated that that

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Speaker 1: insight that I can pass along. It's a very edifying

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Speaker 1: piece of journalism that you wrote, and it's one that

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Speaker 1: you're not going to read anywhere else except on our

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Speaker 1: website because there's no other reporter who is devoted to

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Speaker 1: actually getting the story as you are. One of the

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Speaker 1: probably my single biggest I'm gonna tell you what, my

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Speaker 1: biggest seakeaway always from it Allan and then and then

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Speaker 1: you wreckt My biggest seakeaway from that is that despite

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Speaker 1: the enormous sophistication of the Saudi business leaders who are

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Speaker 1: putting this thing together, is there is a fly by

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Speaker 1: night element to this even with the hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: and bill actually literally billions of dollars invested. And what

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Speaker 1: I took away from your story is they don't really

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Speaker 1: know what they're doing. And I don't mean that possibly

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Speaker 1: or negatively, it's just that was my takeaway. Is that

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Speaker 1: a fair unfair? You tell me that's totally fair? Another

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Speaker 1: way to phrase it. And this is like Nicholson made

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Speaker 1: this point in his press conference. I didn't put it

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Speaker 1: in the story, but he said, things change, things evolved,

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Speaker 1: and we had we were nimble enough and our leadership

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Speaker 1: is flexible enough to respond to that. You know that

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Speaker 1: like in his mind, this is good governance that they're

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Speaker 1: willing to um to make these changes on the fly.

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Speaker 1: As you say, I mean, for instance, they have kind

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Speaker 1: of this. I mean, they have a ten year plan

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Speaker 1: and the way and what they're doing this year was

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Speaker 1: really going to be for next year. But they felt like,

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Speaker 1: we have so much momentum. We've we've got we've signed

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Speaker 1: more players, and we expected to let's go all in

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Speaker 1: and and speed things up, and that's created some of

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Speaker 1: this um discord. I guess would be one word for it.

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Speaker 1: But most of the players are like, this is great.

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Speaker 1: I mean we got to we're trying to get somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and the faster we can get there the better. So

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Speaker 1: your your response is completely valid. The Live side would

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Speaker 1: would look would would point to that as as a

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Speaker 1: good leadership where you're willing to to um to update

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Speaker 1: your plans based on on how things are playing out

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Speaker 1: on the ground. So um, But it's both views are valid.

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Speaker 1: I mean there is an element of like they are

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Speaker 1: winging it and can be good and bad and by um,

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Speaker 1: you know, to accelerate their business plan by a year.

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Speaker 1: I think it was it was certainly the right choice.

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Speaker 1: I mean Live is crying out for an identity beyond

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Speaker 1: the Saudi money and the team thing I think has

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Speaker 1: a chance to be really compelling. I mean I've been

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Speaker 1: on I've been there now these last two events. I

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Speaker 1: actually I like the uniforms. I think it's a really

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Speaker 1: cool look and just for me personally, it helps it

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Speaker 1: burns into my brain who's on which team because you

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Speaker 1: know they've changed a lot since last year, and there

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Speaker 1: is a very palpable camaraderie amongst the teams, Like they

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Speaker 1: play their practice rounds together, they all set up on

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Speaker 1: the range together, they have dinners together and the way

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Speaker 1: they've organized it's it's not an accident, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the All Assie team, like they were throwing a rugby

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Speaker 1: ball around and having fun in the lobby of the

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Speaker 1: Rich Carlton. You know, these are just fun loving characters

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Speaker 1: and you know Kevin Nas Ironheads. It's kind of this

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Speaker 1: pan Asian team. And obviously Danny Lee got the win

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Speaker 1: yesterday and you could see his teammates they, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they look like they were emotional about it. Danny Lee

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Speaker 1: was all choked up and we hadn't won anywhere in

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Speaker 1: the world since twenty fifteen, and he said, like this

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Speaker 1: team has changed the way I play golf because I

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Speaker 1: can't take a single shot off because I know my

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Speaker 1: teammates need me. And it's on a very basic level.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the most stressed out I've been on a

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Speaker 1: golf course in the last year was you and I, Michael,

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Speaker 1: when we played the Uncle Tony Invitational. Abandoned because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to play well for you. And it's a very

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Speaker 1: it's a very human feeling. When you have a teammate

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Speaker 1: you care more, you know, if I'm off playing and

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Speaker 1: just some for some buddies and we're playing for ten bucks.

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Speaker 1: If I played bad, it's on me. They're happy I

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Speaker 1: played bad because they're gonna win more money. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you get down on yourself, but you're not letting anyone

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Speaker 1: else down. But as soon as you have a teammate,

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Speaker 1: the emotion is so different. And even these players who

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Speaker 1: are guaranteed money and they've had these long careers in

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Speaker 1: some cases like they're feeling that on a very human level.

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Speaker 1: And I think I think it's kind of cool. And

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Speaker 1: as you know, there's there's an all Latin American team,

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Speaker 1: there's you know, the Westwood Poulter Stenson, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: these old Rider Cup of War horses, Like they've they've

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Speaker 1: grouped these teams in ways that make sense. You have

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Speaker 1: an all South African team, um, And you used to

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Speaker 1: see this on the European tour, right, like all the

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Speaker 1: Spaniards would would travel together and eat together and play

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Speaker 1: practice rounds together, and then they would they would use

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Speaker 1: these teams in the Ryder Cup because these guys had

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Speaker 1: this palpable chemistry in this history and this the shared

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Speaker 1: language and culture, and that was one of the keys

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Speaker 1: to the European Writer Cup success is that they took

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Speaker 1: these these small, bonded units of players and they use

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Speaker 1: that to their advantage and Live is kind of doing

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Speaker 1: the same thing. And so whether the fan at large

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Speaker 1: will ever be invested in in these results, that's the

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Speaker 1: ultimate question. But the players are and that's a big

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Speaker 1: step forward because it's gonna be hard. It would be

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Speaker 1: hard for the fans to ever care if the players

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Speaker 1: did not care, but they definitely do, and so that

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Speaker 1: was an important first step and I think that justifies

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Speaker 1: Live speeding up its model here to get more buying

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Speaker 1: from the players and to get them literally more invested

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Speaker 1: in their team. So that's a success for Live again,

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Speaker 1: and I think it does help blunt the criticism of

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Speaker 1: all these guys have guaranteed money, they don't care. They're

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Speaker 1: just going through the motions. Like if you're on the grounds,

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Speaker 1: you can feel how much they care and you can

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Speaker 1: see it. And I mean like on Friday when the

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Speaker 1: first round ended, you know, all the players come come

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Speaker 1: in at the same time, and so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a melee around the scoring area because I won't have

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Speaker 1: to turn in their cards. And you know, Phil Michelson

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Speaker 1: saw Brendon Steel and he's like, how do we do?

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Speaker 1: What's your number? You know? It was cute like um

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Speaker 1: and you can see the players are looking for each

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Speaker 1: other in that area. They want to no, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's scoreboards out there, but you always want to get

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Speaker 1: that final confirmation. And so the players are definitely invested

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Speaker 1: in the team thing. Again, the TV numbers weren't great.

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Speaker 1: Whether that's the ultimate question is whether the fans can

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Speaker 1: get there, But I think I think they made the

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Speaker 1: right call. It's another thing that comes out very clear

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Speaker 1: from very clearly from your story that's on our website today,

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Speaker 1: that they're gonna lean way more into this team concept

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Speaker 1: than we even thought thought originally. And I guess that's

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Speaker 1: also very not a guess. It's very much tied into

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Speaker 1: how the s audience can actually make some money from

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Speaker 1: this venture. But alan just from your own observations or

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Speaker 1: from reporting or otherwise. The tradition of team competition is

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Speaker 1: an incredibly rich one, whether it's national pride in the

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Speaker 1: Olympics or city pride like in baseball, football, basketball, hockey,

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Speaker 1: the writer up of course continent versus country. Has there

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Speaker 1: ever been at case where teams have sort of and

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Speaker 1: I understand that they've done a very good job, very

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Speaker 1: clever of putting these groups of like minded players in

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Speaker 1: similar backgrounds together. But in terms of trent but that's

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Speaker 1: okay for them. How does that translate to fan interest?

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Speaker 1: Is there is there a way to actually do that?

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Speaker 1: Can you really create fan interest when the starting point

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Speaker 1: is we're getting the team together in the interest of

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Speaker 1: making money. Yeah, So that the interesting thing. The crowds

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Speaker 1: and Tucson are pretty good. I mean it's obviously Phoenix

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Speaker 1: Open is a long time tours stop. Tucson used to have,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Tucson Open, which our colleague Jeff Ogilvie

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Speaker 1: one that was his first win, you know, Phil one

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Speaker 1: in Tucson when he was in college to launch his career.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of a minor stop on the tour,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of great players won there, including Arnold

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Speaker 1: Palmer and others that went away. They got the the

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Speaker 1: World match play at the same course to gallery course

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Speaker 1: for a period of years. But you know, they played

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Speaker 1: in February and they almost snowed a few times. It

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Speaker 1: was not it's not an easy course to walk. But

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Speaker 1: the crowds were good because Tucson has a golf history

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Speaker 1: and for instance, the Fireballs, which is you know, Sergio

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Speaker 1: Garcia and a Banswer and um you know two other

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Speaker 1: guys who whose native tongue is Spanish. They had a

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Speaker 1: good gallery of Hispanic fans out there, and you could

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Speaker 1: hear some of the some of the conversations, you know,

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Speaker 1: almost like there was some of it was in Spanish.

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Speaker 1: And so in that very small sample size, the model worked.

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Speaker 1: You know, they group these players together because they they're

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Speaker 1: all sort of representing Latin American in some way, and

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Speaker 1: the fans found them and they cared about them in

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Speaker 1: a way that they wouldn't have otherwise. And I thought

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Speaker 1: that was interesting. Now, um, you know, I'm sure there's

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Speaker 1: some kids in Australia or South Africa who care about

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Speaker 1: the Rippers or the Stinger because they're all Australian or

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Speaker 1: they're all South African. And uh, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: grew up in a certain era and in your your

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Speaker 1: North Stars were, um, you know, Charles Schwartzel and Lui

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Speaker 1: Ustaisen and now they're teammates, um and they've been your

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Speaker 1: favorite players for a long time, You're probably going to

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Speaker 1: be a little more invested in that team. Um So,

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Speaker 1: and you know the same thing if you're an English

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Speaker 1: fan of a certain age and Lee Westwood and Ian

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Speaker 1: Poulter where you're gods like and now they're playing together,

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Speaker 1: and you know they have Sam Horsefield, who's another another

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Speaker 1: British gent. So I don't know, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: the scale of it is. I think they will pick

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Speaker 1: off some some fans because they've made it very tribal,

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Speaker 1: and I think that was smart. Interestingly, it's it's the

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Speaker 1: top Americans that that don't really have an identity so much,

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Speaker 1: you know, because um, but I think Phil's kind of

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Speaker 1: low key, going for like a West Coast vibe. You

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Speaker 1: know that's some Brendan Steele's a California guy, but um,

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Speaker 1: you know that like like Bryson's team is an absolute mishmash.

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Speaker 1: It's it's Paul Casey, it's uh narbon Lahiri uh and

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Speaker 1: um who's their fourth player? Now I'm drawn a blank.

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Speaker 1: But there's no natural kinship there right, like oh in

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Speaker 1: this Paul Casey, who's an English chant. It's like there,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't quite fit them. You know, who are they?

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Speaker 1: What are they? And even even their names the crushers

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Speaker 1: so that well, they're not really long hitters so that

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Speaker 1: doesn't work either. Like some of these teams were clearly

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Speaker 1: struggling for an identity, and I don't know how they're

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Speaker 1: going to solve that except through maybe through attrition, you

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Speaker 1: know if um, I mean, I'd love for Bryson to

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Speaker 1: go all in and get three players who who just

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Speaker 1: swing for the fences, and um, whether they could actually

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Speaker 1: score and play real golf would be would be fascinating.

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Speaker 1: But um, you know, if you're gonna call yourself the crushers,

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Speaker 1: you can't have an Indian guy who who drives at

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Speaker 1: two sixty like Lea hear he does. It just doesn't

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Speaker 1: quite work, Like what is who are you? What are you?

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Speaker 1: So they haven't they haven't fully baked it out. But UM,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's gonna be um to me.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of fun and funny and the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, I will say, the the merchandise, it sells

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Speaker 1: in small batches, like the the Bubba's team. The range

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Speaker 1: Goats has a really good logo and they have really

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Speaker 1: fun colors. And in Mexico all their stuff was sold

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Speaker 1: out by even the pro am day, and it was

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Speaker 1: gone in Tucson really fast too, Like they clearly need

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Speaker 1: more quantity. Um. Some of the stuff has become kind

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Speaker 1: of a kitchy collector's item in a way, and so

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Speaker 1: I think they will be able to sell some merchandise

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Speaker 1: and that that becomes a revenue stream. It's not a

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Speaker 1: big one, but it's something. And um, some some of

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Speaker 1: the logos and you know, are kind of awful and

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone wants to wear them, but some

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Speaker 1: of them are well done. So um, the identities and

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Speaker 1: the branding of the teams has potential, it really does,

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Speaker 1: but it's still a work in progress. Did you get

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Speaker 1: to catch Trinity the telecast and what were your impressions

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Speaker 1: of it? Yeah, so when I'm in the press room working,

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Speaker 1: they have a telecast on. There's no sound, which is

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Speaker 1: a kind of my preferred way to watch calf Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I can't really comment on the commentary, but it is

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Speaker 1: the irony is that the live golf telecast is what

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Speaker 1: golf Twitter demands and bitches about every weekend. You know

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Speaker 1: that you're lucky to be immune from the discourse, Michael,

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Speaker 1: but a big, a big faction of golf Twitter is

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Speaker 1: there just to complain about TV coverage. I mean, every

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Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday. It's just endless and not unjustified. But

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Speaker 1: I was talking to someone who's part of the live broadcast. Well,

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Speaker 1: he's behind the scenes, he's one of the shot callers,

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Speaker 1: and he said they average one hundred and fifty shots

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Speaker 1: per hour and they refuse to show tappens. They never

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Speaker 1: show tappens because they think it's boring. Unless a guy

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Speaker 1: misses it, they'll show it, but otherwise notes it's one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty real shots and putts and that they've

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Speaker 1: they've looked into it. And on CBS and NBC the

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Speaker 1: average is fifty to sixty an hour, and so the

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Speaker 1: live telecast is like bang bang bang, like it's shot

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Speaker 1: too shot, two shot. And of course there's not the

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Speaker 1: commercial load because they don't have commercial sponsors yet, so

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Speaker 1: that's not totally a fair fight. But um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was especially watching on Friday, that's when I was

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Speaker 1: in front of my computer a little bit more. And

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Speaker 1: that's just that's the streaming version when there really is

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Speaker 1: no commercials, and it's, um, it's a dream for a

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Speaker 1: golf fan, and it's just there's no there's no filler.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they are just showing golf shot after golf shot,

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Speaker 1: and on an interesting desert course where guys were hitting

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Speaker 1: you know, offline and getting in trouble and there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of runouts and really challenging short game shots and

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Speaker 1: there's drive all part fours. It was fun to watch.

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Speaker 1: I mean just as a golf fan, like I like

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Speaker 1: watching camp Smith play golf. I like watching Dustin Johnson,

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Speaker 1: I like watching a bands or you know, there's these

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Speaker 1: guys are mega talents and so if you can you know,

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Speaker 1: if you can in a silo, in a vacuum, if

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Speaker 1: you can declutter your brain from all the other things,

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Speaker 1: and you just like watching really skilled golfers. It really

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Speaker 1: interesting golf shots. Like it was great fun. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the numbers haven't been there so far, and you know

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Speaker 1: this year, their their ratings are very low, and um so,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm slightly in a minority opinion. But the

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Speaker 1: U I had that exact moment alan watching just a

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Speaker 1: little bit of the telecast. You see a guy over

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Speaker 1: a shot, You see a caddy and a player talking

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Speaker 1: about a shot. You see you know, you see a

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Speaker 1: player watching a putt roll to the hole and is

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Speaker 1: it in or out? Is it going to fallow or not.

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Speaker 1: And it looked just like a pH two or event

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Speaker 1: except for the shorts. There were definitely moments like that,

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Speaker 1: highly skilled golfers playing golf. We've been watching that on

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Speaker 1: two baby, literally all all our lives um so at

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Speaker 1: some level it is just another form of golf, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then I think the question is are you are

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Speaker 1: you going to care? Can they make you care? Can

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Speaker 1: you make yourself care? Are you so distracted by you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like what Rory says. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: not just competing with Live, We're competing with TikTok. There's

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Speaker 1: so many demands for our time. It's like and I

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Speaker 1: understand that people were you know, I wrote, I watched

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Speaker 1: one episode of the Netflix series. I didn't think it

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Speaker 1: worked at all, the Jordan justin one, and I consider,

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Speaker 1: like we all do my time to be valuable. I

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Speaker 1: don't care to watch anymore. So I wrote up the

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Speaker 1: one and said that's it for me. Now. People have

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Speaker 1: told me that there are many other better ones. But

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Speaker 1: the point here is that there is tremendous competition for

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Speaker 1: our time, and that's going to be. As you say,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of moments when it's just watching really

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Speaker 1: skilled golfers playing golf shots. But can you make us

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Speaker 1: care about the results? Not you, but can can the

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Speaker 1: Saudi organizers? Can Live Golf make us really care about

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Speaker 1: the outcome? That's all. It's going to be an enormous

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Speaker 1: challenge for this league, and I don't understand really why

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Speaker 1: on Sunday they can't find another way to change the

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Speaker 1: format so not everybody is finishing at once. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: interesting because you know, the inspiration for everything Live Golf

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Speaker 1: does is the Premier Golf League. And I've read through

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Speaker 1: the one hundred and sixteen page prospectus a number of times,

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Speaker 1: which Live leaned on heavily. And they had a shotgun

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Speaker 1: start for the first two rounds, but on the final

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Speaker 1: round they went to traditional you know, everyone goes off

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Speaker 1: the first team leaders go last. Recognizing that you kind

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Speaker 1: of want that traditional drama, that's a departure for Living

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Speaker 1: It's probably a mistake. I mean, they do send the

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Speaker 1: leaders off last, so the leaders will go off one

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Speaker 1: the guys the nearest pursuers go off too, so they

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Speaker 1: they're trying to get the drama on the final holes.

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Speaker 1: But even so it's I mean That's a another thing.

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Speaker 1: I like you talk about the attention span. I like

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Speaker 1: that all the players start at the same time and

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Speaker 1: everyone's on the course at the same time, and the

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Speaker 1: whole thing takes, you know, four and a half hours

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Speaker 1: and then you're done. It's a dream work day for uh,

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Speaker 1: for the for those of us in the typing trade,

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Speaker 1: and I think the fans like it too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: to beat a tour event in the sun for ten

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Speaker 1: hours is that's not easy to do. And if you're

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Speaker 1: you know, we talked abouts on a previous podcast, but

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Speaker 1: all your players are that you want to watch, you're

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Speaker 1: out there and you just have to find them instead

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Speaker 1: of you know, waiting for a morning in an afternoon wave.

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Speaker 1: So that's one to your point that the and I

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Speaker 1: was talking to you know, I have I have four teenagers,

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Speaker 1: and we were just talking about how the media has changed,

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Speaker 1: and I was sort of lamenting that, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the things that I value, the the long form, the

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Speaker 1: richly reported pieces, whether it's on golf er, on anything.

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Speaker 1: And I know you're the same kind of reader, Michael,

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Speaker 1: and we have the same taste. And Olivia, my nineteen

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Speaker 1: year old, she's like, that's dead nobody cares. She's like,

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Speaker 1: if you can't tell it in a sixty second TikTok,

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Speaker 1: nobody cares. It was like so harsh and funny, but

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Speaker 1: obviously true for a growing percentage of humanity. And so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, to live's credit, they've tried to adapt to that,

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Speaker 1: like let's give you a more easily consumable products. It's

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Speaker 1: three days instead of four, it's four and a half

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Speaker 1: hours instead of twelve. Everybody's out there at once, and

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of these things are held against

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Speaker 1: it as as a as a critique, like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: not real competition, it's not saving two holes, and shotgun

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Speaker 1: start is for you know, it's for charity fundraisers at

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Speaker 1: your local hospital. But they're sort of trying to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that the tastes have changed among the consumer, and it's

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Speaker 1: they're being belittled for it. But if if my entire

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Speaker 1: market research are the people in my house, than um

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Speaker 1: I would say they're they're onto something, But um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's an interesting debate, But you're right,

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Speaker 1: getting the average golf fan who's who's used to the

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Speaker 1: traditional venues in the traditional way of doing it. Can

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Speaker 1: they get them to cross over. I did a speaking

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Speaker 1: thing at UM at Stanford Golf Course not too long ago,

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Speaker 1: and it was sixty people in the room. They were

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Speaker 1: having a member guest at Stanford UM, so a learned

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Speaker 1: crowd and obviously serious golfers. And I asked, like, how

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Speaker 1: many of you have watched a live telecast? And I

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Speaker 1: was surprised. It was probably a dozen hands went up.

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Speaker 1: That was more than I expected. UM, and they you know,

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Speaker 1: there was a curiosity factor there that you know now

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Speaker 1: they're in year two. I mean people are people either

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Speaker 1: like it or they don't UM, I guess if they can.

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Speaker 1: And this is this is one of Live's fundamental problems

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Speaker 1: right now. Is it was built on star power, like like,

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Speaker 1: let's cater to the the biggest names and give them

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Speaker 1: what they want so they'll come and play on our tour.

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Speaker 1: But it's the journeyman who are winning. I mean Charles

427
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: Howe that was he was a cute winner and it

428
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: meant a lot to him and he contended again. Danny Lee,

429
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: you know, he was choked up. He was emotional, like

430
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: the idea that these guys don't care, you know, Danny

431
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: Lee unable to speak after the Win would would probably

432
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: counter that narrative. But you're not going to build a

433
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 1: breakaway league on Charles Howe and Danny Lee. I mean

434
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: they need, they need Phil to find it. Bryson is

435
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: playing terrible golf. Camp Smith, you know he's been okay.

436
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: Dustin's kind of cruising along like uh, you know Brooks.

437
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: I would say those five guys could really move the

438
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: needle if you have Brooks, Dustin, Camum, Phil and and

439
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: DJ like, they could break through the clutter. And they're

440
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: so compelling to watch and we're invested in their stories

441
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 1: that as golf fans, I think they could make a difference.

442
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: But the Danny Lee's and the Charles Howe's is as

443
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: charming as they are. I mean that's a problem for Live.

444
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: They need, they need their biggest names to start bringing it,

445
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: and they just haven't really. I mean, Dustin and Cam

446
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 1: and Brooks each one once last year, but they've they've

447
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: kind of faded away, and so I don't know that

448
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: there's definitely you don't want the journeyman to carry Live Golf.

449
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: I mean, now it is, it's kind of it's again

450
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: how we talk about things. You have this kid, Taylor

451
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: Moore I'm not really a kid, but a guy trying

452
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 1: to break through at Valspar and that was totally celebrated

453
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: like this is and I see this in my mention,

454
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: this is what this is what the PGA tors about.

455
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: It's guy's changing their life and getting the break they

456
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: always needed. And that's why it's so compelling. And I

457
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: think we all agree with that. But if a guy

458
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: like Danny Leeve hasn't won anywhere in seven years and

459
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: this is a career altering performance and he's found a purpose,

460
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: like people kind of shrug and go, he's he's He's

461
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: just want a bunch of money, That's why he cares.

462
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, his career just got jumpstarted in

463
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: a huge way, but it's not celebrated in the way

464
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: that that sort of an unknown winning on the PGA Tours.

465
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: So um, that's another perception problem for live golf. A

466
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: couple that triggers a lot alan Um. One of the ones.

467
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: Your four teenagers in the house are an incredibly important

468
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: dynamic for golf because they're they're very interested, bright kids,

469
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: interested in the world. They're not they're active in their

470
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: own sports. They're not golfers, but golf traditionally has been

471
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: able to take in the ordinary sportsman for the four

472
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: Majors and for the Ryder Cup especially, no matter matter what,

473
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: what what their interests in golf. And and that's why

474
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: those numbers have been those numbers those events. Is anyone

475
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: your age or my age would know, they're a crescendo.

476
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: They lead, they build, they build, they build, and then

477
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: they explode. And and what you're four teenagers saying is

478
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: we don't have the time or the patients for that.

479
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: So it's an enormous challenge for golf going forward. CBS

480
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: is finding this with their Master's Cell guests, you know,

481
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: the Masters is the ultimate example of that. To really

482
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,919
Speaker 1: appreciate Sunday afternoon, you have to be along for the

483
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: ride to some degree, Thursday, Friday Act one definitely Saturday

484
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,959
Speaker 1: act too, where you get to know the protagonists and

485
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: then you're all in for the third act on Sunday.

486
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: But if the nature of storytelling has changed so fundamentally

487
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 1: that that doesn't hold up anymore, like as might be

488
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: the case in the ship Nuck House and millions of

489
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: other houses, then that's that is a basic problem for golf.

490
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: In this narrow sense, it's a basic problem for golf

491
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: in the broadcasting of golf to millions of people. Now

492
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: as you and I, you know, for me, that's not golf,

493
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: that's some little sliver of golf. Even like when Jeff

494
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: was in our podcast the other day and he's talking about,

495
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, the golfing celebrity and their ability to sell

496
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: the big headed driver in the hot ball and the

497
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: Titanum chef and all the rest. Even that's just a

498
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: sort of sliver of golf. But but what what you're

499
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: talking about illustrates a huge problem for golf, for golf

500
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: on TV going forward. Well, and even Augusta National. I mean,

501
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: you know, we know how Jerry Attrick that membership is,

502
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: but they get it. Like you know, the the guys

503
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: kicking around beach balls an amen corner last year was

504
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: a curiosity. Um, you know, dude perfect, But that was

505
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: an attempt by Augusta National to reach all the people

506
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: under thirty out there who don't want to hear the

507
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: tricky pianio music. And they don't get they don't get

508
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: teary eyed thinking about Gene Sarazen's five Wood, you know,

509
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: like there and if I don't know, if you saw

510
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: this little teaser they released on social media. Yeah, you know,

511
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: they have kind of these hipsters hanging out, yeah, having

512
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: like a little masters party. Like, whether you liked it

513
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: or not, it was at least Augusta National has realized

514
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: we can't keep selling ourselves the same way because it's

515
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: old and it's tired. And how about how about fred

516
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: Ridley last year? Are you talking about the dude perfect? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

517
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: I mean, so they're listening to theirs. You know, they

518
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: all have grandkids the age of my kids, and they've

519
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: gotten the message like we've got to reinvent ourselves a

520
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: little bit. Um. So it's just an interesting time. I mean,

521
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: we've talked about this a lot offline, how the golf

522
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: media has changed, and it's, um. You can lament it

523
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: or you can just try and keep up with the times.

524
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: And it's certainly um. You know, Like I don't know

525
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: if you've if you've noticed Kevin val van Waalkenberg since

526
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: he went to No Lang Up, he's been writing game

527
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: stories just as tweets. And you know, I read his

528
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: mail back. So he's been writing game stories that just

529
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: as a series of tweets, not even posting on the website,

530
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: but just you know, a thread of of twenty or

531
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: thirty or forty tweets that bring to life some aspect.

532
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: And you know, he talked about one of his mailbags,

533
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: and I was just talking to Kevin on the phone

534
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: the other day and we went through it a little

535
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: a little bit as well that He's like, well that

536
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: by the time you get that edited and posted, it's

537
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, it's nighttime, and then they're playing golf again

538
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: the next day, and it's just kind of it feels

539
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: like it's, um, you lose the audience and whereas you

540
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: can just put up on Twitter more with more immediacy

541
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 1: and and folks, well, we'll consume it, and we'll get

542
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: them excited that you're there, and maybe they'll they'll they'll

543
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: be inspired to look into more of things you have done.

544
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: But you know, for you and I to imagine going too,

545
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the masters together a couple of weeks,

546
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: like to not write every day and not to put

547
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: it on our website and try and you know, do

548
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: a more traditional, longer, longer form story. Like it's hard,

549
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: it's hard to imagine a world where we didn't do that.

550
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe we're just dinosaurs. I don't know.

551
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: We write for people who like the pleasure sitting down

552
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: and reading something, and Kevin knows two. But what Kevin's

553
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: figuring out is that they're reading in a different way.

554
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: And your four kids are giving that message all the time. Alan,

555
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: in your week there, did you talk to anybody affiliated

556
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: with LIV who thinks the rollback, the so called rollback

557
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: of the golf ball, would be a good thing for golf.

558
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: I can kind of guess the answer, but I don't

559
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: want to get Yeah. Yeah, you know, we know that

560
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 1: LIVE is predisposed to attract the rebels, right, the non conformists,

561
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: and they're not stoked about the rollback. I mean, they're

562
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: trying to sell an entertainment product. And you know one

563
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: player who I'm not going to say my name because

564
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: we were just kind of bullshitting, but like I think

565
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: gonna make us use a gutta percha, Like he's like,

566
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: this is ridiculous, Like what is the usj doing that

567
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: they're living in the nineteenth century, which, of course I

568
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: don't fully agree that analysis, but um, you know, if

569
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: you're if your mot if, your motto is golf but louder,

570
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: you're not going to be in favor of a quieter game,

571
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: a more contemplative game. It just doesn't it doesn't work. So, um,

572
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: it really plays right into their hands. Yeah, totally. So. No,

573
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: I didn't hear much support for the rollback, but um,

574
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: you know that Live is getting more into the governance

575
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: side of things. You know, last year was just a

576
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: chaotic launch in so much there's so many moving parts.

577
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: But they're you know this player meeting that I staked

578
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: out in the lobby of the Rich Carlton. I mean,

579
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: they they're going to go to a drug testing policy

580
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: this year, which I have to do if their players

581
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: want to play in the Olympics and those sort of things.

582
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: They're instituting a slow play policy, which every professional tour needs. Um.

583
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: So that was funny you had where the one guy said, yeah,

584
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: it's just effective. Is that j tours watch out exactly.

585
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: But honestly, the pace of playout there, I think is

586
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: pretty good. Um, I'm always surprised, like I'm doing something.

587
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh man, they're gonna be finishing here soon.

588
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: Like I mean, they're playing about four and a half hours,

589
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: where on tour it feels like it's taken five and

590
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: a half. So um. But the point is they're they're

591
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: they're they're introducing more structure and more real decision making.

592
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: So at some point they can they're going to have

593
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: to have this discussion, do we want to abide by

594
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: the rollback or not? UM. I think ultimately they're going

595
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: they will have to because Live Golf knows that it's

596
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: a lot of its credibility is going to be determined

597
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: by how the players perform in the major championships, and

598
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: if all the tour guys are playing the USGA by

599
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: the USGA rules, which will be you know, that's what

600
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: the majors are going to do, right, They're they're not

601
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: going to defy the United States Golf Association. So if

602
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: if the Masters and the PGA in the British Open

603
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: have the roll back ball, the Live guys can't rock

604
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: up those weeks. Haven't played a different ball most weeks,

605
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: and so I think ultimately they'll be in lockstep with

606
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: whatever the tour does, grudgingly, but they're not going to

607
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: hide their disdain. But I you know, that's one of

608
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: the that's one of the fascinating subplots is both Live

609
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: and the PGA Tour don't have to follow this local rule.

610
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: They can do what they want as an organization, but

611
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: I think they're going to have to mirror each other.

612
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: And I think Lives of course going to take its

613
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: cues from the PGA Tour because the ultimate proving grounds

614
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: has become the majors and you don't want to put

615
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: yourself a disadvantage there. So I think they'll be grumbling,

616
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: but ultimately they'll go along with whatever the tour does.

617
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: Alan just as a quick aside, and then I want

618
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: to they do have another question for you, but just

619
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: as a quick aside, what do you think about the

620
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: idea of the USJ and the RNA trying to develop

621
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: the ball just for the four Majors where Pebble Beach

622
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: and the Old Course area and many others would still

623
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: have meaningful part AUGUSTA National would have would be meaningful,

624
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: and then maybe try to sell that ball down the

625
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: road to the PGA Tour as well. I just think

626
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: it's so problematic because these guys are so highly optimized

627
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: with their equipment and to play the game a certain way,

628
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, forty eight weeks a year and then the

629
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: other and then four weeks a year to have to

630
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: learn different trajectories, different carry distances, tweak your equipment, different shafts,

631
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: different whatever, and those are the four most important weeks.

632
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I mean, that would be essentially

633
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: if if basketball for the NBA Finals just raised the

634
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: rims six inches, which would probably make the game more interesting.

635
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: And the players are skilled enough, they would they would

636
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: get they would be able to they'd be able to

637
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: play the game, but it would be different, and you know,

638
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the shooting percentage would drop dramatically

639
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: and they'd be brick City and it would be like,

640
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: what's the point. I mean, I just now you're now

641
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: you're really creating two different games. And you know, Mike Clayton,

642
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: he we had a we had a whole conversation offline

643
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: about about this stuff, and he said, well, this that's

644
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: exactly what happened with the British ball. You know, people

645
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: forget that this did happen. There was true bifurcation in

646
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: the game forty years ago when they introduced this different

647
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: ball through the RNA, which is different from the USGA,

648
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: and players had to learn a different ball and they

649
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: were able to do it. But that was before track

650
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: Man and that was before a lot of um equipment advances,

651
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: and so it could work. I mean, if you told

652
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: the guys you can't play the Masters unless you play

653
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: this ball, They're going to play that ball and someone

654
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: someone's gonna shoot to seventy two and win the golf tournament.

655
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean it would happen, but I think he would

656
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: on some in some level and diminished the Majors because

657
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: it would there'd be so many guys being like, what

658
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: this just doesn't feel. This is not the golf I know,

659
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: is not the golf I've grown up. This is not

660
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: the skill set that I've honed. Um. And maybe that's

661
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: a that's a that's a new school view. But I

662
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: mean when you it's funny to me still, even though

663
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: I've seen it for a while when when guys are

664
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: playing practice rounds they have, you know, their manager or

665
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: their caddy. They're carrying their track man. They set it

666
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: down for every shot now and even in the practice

667
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 1: rounds like they've got these little sling things. They carry

668
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: their their launch monitors in and um, every shot of

669
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: every practice round and pro am is on the track man.

670
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: And you know, we talked about this with Hailer and

671
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: Jeff Ogilvion need a force. I mean for the for

672
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: the old school guys like that that it's it's horrific,

673
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: like it makes their their faces melt. But again, times

674
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: change and habits change, and so I don't I don't

675
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: like the idea of of of making the players learn

676
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: something new and adapt just for those four weeks, which

677
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: are the ones that really matter. What do you think,

678
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean, would you be in favorite? I mean favorite?

679
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: I think it would be neat. I think would actually

680
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: elevate the majors um. I think in tennis they've got

681
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: different balls for all the different surfaces, and I think

682
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: we were so focused on what the players want, um,

683
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: But I think what the fan wants is for us

684
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: to see them playing golf as we play golf, which

685
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: is it's I mean, now, you're a long hitter, but

686
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: on any part five that you and I have played

687
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: many over the years, if you bust two, maybe you'll

688
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 1: be in a green side trap. It's not three would

689
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: four iron two or part five that's not a par five.

690
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: So if you had a ball that would reintroduce the

691
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 1: actual concept of a par five, the long part four,

692
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: the long part three. I think I think that would

693
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: be a real positive for golf. And if and if

694
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: it only happened at the four Majors, the special and

695
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: the others were viewed more as entertainment, I'd be I

696
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: think it would be cool. Yeah, it's these macro issues

697
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: are so interesting. But did you have a chance to

698
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: watch Jordan Spieth the Jordan's Spief experience on Sunday? I

699
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: mean that it's just never boring, Like he looks like

700
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: he's shooting forty for any nine holes of golf he plays.

701
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: You actually can't believe when you look at a borders,

702
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: look at a boardings, he's eight under nine under a

703
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: could possibly win the tournament. It's just bizarre, actually bizarre.

704
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: I don't see how this particular golf, these plane could

705
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: possibly hold up at Augusta National well. And he has

706
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 1: he has his period. Not that we're not rooting for him,

707
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: because we are. We are, I know, and like he

708
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: hit it, it's just he's so mental. I mean, hit

709
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: a bunch of greens and regulation on Sunday, but then

710
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: he missed three of the last four, just like you

711
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: know bay Hill. He had all those one puts and

712
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: then he missed all those puts coming down the stretch

713
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: and um, seventy first hole really tough. Part three at

714
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: Valve Spars flags it best shot of the day and

715
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: missus like what a six seven foot or like Jordan,

716
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: it's exhausting, it's painful, and I got I got one,

717
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: I got one more ball. Question for you, hopefully know

718
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people. What what did you see Bryson's

719
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: joke thing about, you know, his proposal for the USGA

720
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: and then he swings like Grandma, yeah I did what? What? What?

721
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,480
Speaker 1: What did you think of that? Bryson is so fascinating.

722
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 1: I mean I've actually been talking to him a fair

723
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: amount all these events. You know, some guys don't want

724
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: to talk about anything bright. I mean, I'm asking Bryson

725
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 1: tough questions about a lot of things. He just answers them,

726
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: which I like, of course, and that's neat. Does he

727
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: have handers around when you do that? He does, but

728
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: I just ignore them. I just walked right up to

729
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: Bryce and we have you know, I've been covering him

730
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: a long time, and that's Bryson's cag. I mean, he

731
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: knows I'm writing this book about about live golf in

732
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, and I think he's obsessed with status

733
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: and he wants to be a voice in the book.

734
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: But that's fine as long as and he gives me

735
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: like really good answers. There's I have a strong BS detector,

736
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: and I feel like he's he's being really straight with me.

737
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, the handlers are always around, but I

738
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: just don't even make eye contact with them. But um,

739
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: and he's playing terrible golf. I mean he's he's finishing

740
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 1: like forty six, forty seven, but he's trying hard out there, man,

741
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: I mean I I did. My least favorite part of

742
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,399
Speaker 1: this job is the driving range vigil. When you want

743
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: to talk to somebody and they're there, you know it's

744
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: after the round and you're like, oh, they're gonna have

745
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: one bag of balls, and he keeps setting this guy

746
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: back for more and more balls. I mean, um, you know,

747
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: he was there till dark. And it's not like he's

748
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: not putting in the same amount of time. He's just

749
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: not getting the results. But the thing about Bryson is

750
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 1: he's just and you see this in all the things

751
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: he does on social media. He's just not quite as

752
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: funny as he thinks he is. And I mean the

753
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: usg bit could have been good, but it wound up

754
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: being a little cringe e And that that's kind of

755
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: like a lot of the things he does. I guess

756
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: it's it's cool that he puts himself out there and

757
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: he's he's trying to engage his fans, and he's he's

758
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, be a content creator. But it's

759
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: just always like slightly off. But um, you know, I

760
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: guess I guess you got to applaud the effort. I

761
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: mean we want we want the fans too, I mean

762
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: want the players to engage his fans, we want them

763
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: to embrace social media. I mean, Bryson does all that,

764
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: but it's just it's I don't know, it's just it's

765
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: just like two degrees away from being like really good.

766
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: But um yeah, I mean, yeah, he's getting He's the

767
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: loudest voice against against the rollback for sure, because you know,

768
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: he feels personally oppressed and he's a guy who's who's

769
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: devoted his entire professional career to finding new advantages and

770
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: and exploiting um any little thing he can, and it

771
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: just feels like they're stunting his progress. But he does

772
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: look good. I mean, he's he's lost a lot of

773
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: the weight. He looks strong. I mean, he looks thick

774
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: but not bloated, and he looks a lot healthier than

775
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: when he first embraced. He went down that road of

776
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: just trying to bulk up. So he just remains an enigma.

777
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: But I do like watching him play the game, and

778
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: I do appreciate that he's still obsessed with golf and

779
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: he's still trying to get better at it, even though

780
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: the evidence is to the contrary. He should be in

781
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: his alan. He should be in his prime trying to

782
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: get better at it. He should absolutely be in his prime.

783
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, it's true. Something really, really really weird

784
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: is going down that we don't know. But just so

785
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: just to pop on something that you just said, you

786
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: see to me Bryson mocking the USG as you say,

787
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: you know he's off by two dukeree Is he thinks

788
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: it's funny. It's not really funny. But to be sort

789
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: of serious about it, his career is defined by two things.

790
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the great muscle packing and weight gain.

791
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: You know, aside the US Amateur win, the US Open win,

792
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: those are the great championships of the USGA. And to

793
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: be so disrespectful to an organization that what they've gotten

794
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: a lot wrong. And I'm not standing here as a

795
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: usg committeement or anything remotely like that, but they do

796
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: create the game by which he has been able to

797
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: separate himself from the crowd as an amateur and as

798
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: a professional. And I don't know. I know he's trying

799
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: to be funny, but I don't think it's funny at all.

800
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 1: I think it's dumb, and I think it's disrespectful, and

801
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: I think it and I think it's why a lot

802
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: of people are just sort of annoyed at live golf,

803
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: because I think the live people want to do what

804
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: they want to do, they should do it, and it's great.

805
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't personally think it's great, but it's a free world,

806
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, is a free world. I think Bryce and

807
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: d Shambo I don't even like to use the word should,

808
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,959
Speaker 1: but I'm using it here. Uh, could be a little

809
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 1: bit more respectful to the organization that created these championships

810
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: that have really defined his golfing life. I find it offensive, really,

811
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: It's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I always appreciate

812
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: your traditionalist take. I mean, it would be very clever

813
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 1: pr if if live off. All the players just said,

814
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: we love the USGA. They're the stewards of the game.

815
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: We believe in them, and we're gonna follow their lead

816
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: and whatever they want us to do, we're gonna do.

817
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: Because it would be so counterintuitive, right, you know, they've

818
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: they've they've got all these spiky personalities and these and

819
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: these guys like to rage against the machine like that

820
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 1: would that would be a way to get in the

821
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: good graces of certain golf fans. But it's just not

822
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: in their DNA. I mean, it's just not you know,

823
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: it's funny ways you say that, Alan, because like you know,

824
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: I've talked to Norman a lot over the years. I

825
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: know you have as well, and of course he's very

826
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: critical to PJ Tour. I have never heard him say

827
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: one critical thing about the RNA, Augusta National or the USGA.

828
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: I never have. Yeah, and you know, for a guy

829
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: who was pretty star crossing in the US Open, I

830
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: mean he had a few chances too, it never did

831
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: he could ever say this US of course joke is

832
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: the set up here is a joke. Never I never

833
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: heard him say anything like that. Yeah, you've talked about

834
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: this very eloquently another podcast that And you know, the

835
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: USGA had this this elevated position in the sport. They

836
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: were your term. They were like the stern father who ruled,

837
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: who lorded over all of us. And I think Norman

838
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: still has that that reflexive kind of reverence, even though

839
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: he is a muckraker and and he does like to

840
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: stir the pot I and of course he came up.

841
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: He was under the ages of the RNA coming up anyway,

842
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: And I think the RNA, even more than the USGA,

843
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: is held in the steam because it's these tweety old

844
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: gents who invented the sport and um and so yeah,

845
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: it's uh, that is interesting. But would this to be

846
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 1: an appropriate venue for me and us to an extend

847
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: and inventa to Norman Greg Norman, commissioner of the LIV

848
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: Gulf League, to join us on NITA fourth and discuss

849
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: his feelings about the us GA, the RNA, and gust

850
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: A National. It would be unt I bumped into Norman

851
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: out on the course during the pro am in Tucson.

852
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: He was just there and he's always on the move,

853
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: like he's a really hard guy to pin down. They

854
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 1: don't bring him into the press room anymore. Like they've

855
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: really tried to keep him away from reporters, which is

856
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: probably a smart move because he has he just always

857
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: takes the bait and he loves to he loved to

858
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: pop off. But there he was, and so I walked

859
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: up to him and I was like, Greg, you know,

860
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: I've been trying to I've been trying to get ahold

861
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: of you for a long time. And we had this

862
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: moment last year in the parking lot at Portland where

863
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: that was right after coming in hot after London. I

864
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: got boot out of the press conference and he's looming

865
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: over my shoulder like the grim Reaper, and we talked

866
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: in them. We talked to the park about for half

867
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: an hour of Portland and had a meeting of the

868
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: mines and he was apologetic and about that whole situation,

869
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: and I told him that I was doing this book

870
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 1: and I really wanted to sit down with him. He said, okay, mate,

871
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: we'll do it. You know, come to my office and

872
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: Florida and we shook hands on it. And he's been

873
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: dodging me ever since. And you know, I've texted him

874
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: and he keeps saying I'd like to but you know,

875
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: I can't not the right time. Everyone has a boss, Greg,

876
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: no one has a boss, and so there they've pretty

877
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: much muzzled him. But anyway, I don't I don't care.

878
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: So I walked up to him. It's like, Greg, we

879
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: got to talk. I got all these questions for you.

880
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: He's like, I'd love to mate, but you know, and

881
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 1: he had he had a cart. He's like, I gotta

882
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: pick my son up, who was like fifty yards away.

883
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: He's like, we gotta be over there. I said, okay, well,

884
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: how about after the pro I'm like, I'll meet you

885
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: in the lobby at the Ritz. We can sit down

886
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: and have a drink. He's like, ah nah this afternoon slam.

887
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: I said, okay, dinner, I'll buy you dinner. You can

888
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: order the wine. He's like, I got a dinner thing.

889
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 1: I said, fine, I'll meet you after dinner and we can,

890
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 1: like I'll sit in your hotel room. I don't care,

891
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: just tell me where and went. He's like a it's

892
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 1: a crazy night. He's like I gotta go and like

893
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,959
Speaker 1: zooms away. It's like, well, I can't try any harder

894
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: than I'm trying. But he just he doesn't want to

895
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: talk I mean, no matter what Greg Norman says, people

896
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: are going to pounce on it, and he has a

897
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 1: tency to say the wrong thing anyway, So I it's

898
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: there's no upside for him other than it would there's

899
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: he could explain things in a detailed way. He could

900
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: he could offer some depth and context. I mean, of

901
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: course that it would be it would be helpful for

902
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: my purposes. But I think he just the cost of

903
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: benefit analysis. But if he slips up and says one

904
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: wrong thing, I'm not in the gotcha business. But he's

905
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: just done it to himself where you know when I mean,

906
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 1: one of the top the live executives quit last year

907
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: after Norman's quote about you know, the Jamaal Kashagi murder, Like, oh,

908
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: we all make mistakes, like this guy like resigned in protests,

909
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: you know, like there's there's actual raifications to his words,

910
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: and so if he says the wrong thing, the stakes

911
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: are just too high. So the chances been coming on

912
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: need a fourth or slim. But I that you're putting

913
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: it out into the universe, Michael, who knows it's worth

914
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: a shot. But uh, anyway, So one of the pleasures

915
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 1: of my trip to Tucson was that I've been reading

916
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: your book, The Ball in the Air. I'm like eighty

917
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: percent and done, and uh, what we're gonna do. That

918
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: comes out next a week from today, and we're gonna

919
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: do a special pod to talk about the book. But

920
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: it's such a joy because it's such it's a very intimate,

921
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: charming story and you're so immersed in the life of

922
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: these these these golf lifers, and um, I'm trying to

923
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: find some I gotta finish it today because it's I

924
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: just like finishing books, and I want to see how

925
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: it ends. I mean, I kind of I have some

926
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 1: I have some insight on the life and times of

927
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: your protagonist. But anyway that I thank Yeah, you can

928
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: find time to read all you got going on, four kids,

929
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: book job and the rest. But you are in plane,

930
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: so that helps. Yeah. And actually on Frida Day night

931
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 1: in Tucson, there were really long days and I came

932
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: in a little rundown anyway, so I was like kind

933
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: of doing room service and just not really venturing out.

934
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 1: But I went out Friday night to this cool part

935
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: of town. I think it's called the Warehouse District. It's

936
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: near the University of Arizona. I didn't realize with Saint

937
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: Patrick's Day until there was all these all these like

938
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 1: people dressed in green and having a lot of fun,

939
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's kind of fun energy.

940
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: But I long ago stopped caring about like eating in

941
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: restaurants by myself. I know some people are self conscious,

942
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: you know, when you travel for a living, that's just

943
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: what you got to do. So I wound up in

944
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: this very bustling pizza place and I was reading your

945
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: book and I've got like the greasy smudges on some

946
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: of the pages to prove it and like, and I

947
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: didn't realize it, but I was kind of on the

948
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: way to the bathroom, so there's like a lot of

949
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: foot traffic where my table was. And seven or eight

950
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: people were like commented, I guess this is weird. She's

951
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 1: someone reading a book. The days like if you're by yourself,

952
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 1: folks are on their phone, right, Like that's how people

953
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: pass the time, if you have to eat a mule alone.

954
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: But to have a hardback book with kind of an

955
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: elegant cover, he created a lot of conversations. I think

956
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: I sold some books for you in Tucson. I'm gonna

957
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: leave you this one thing out. And so the Farrelly brothers,

958
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: great guys, great golfers. I don't know if they're great golfers.

959
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: They're trying to pitch Bill Murray on a script. I

960
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: think the movie was called Hall Pass. And they sent

961
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: him and he has no Asian and he's got no anything.

962
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: And they, you know, they got an address room on

963
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: some island of South Carolina, probably just Kio or something

964
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: up that way, Sullivan's Island. But anyway, they got the address,

965
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: they sent Murray the script that they wanted him to read,

966
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: consider the role to your point about piece of some

967
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 1: mudge stains on the pages. The script came back about

968
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: nine months to a year later. Every single page had

969
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,720
Speaker 1: a coffee staying on it or some kind of staying

970
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: on it, a dog geared. He obviously read the whole thing. No, no,

971
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: no anything. And I think it was Peter Farreley. I

972
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: told me that was Bill Murray's way of passing. You

973
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 1: know that he was going to do just sent it bad.

974
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: But to me, you know, at least he took it seriously.

975
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm looking at a Philip brothbook I'm

976
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: reading right now, you know, it's a good feeling to

977
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 1: look at something. It's actually it's got a little bit

978
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 1: of you. Not to get too graphic here, but once

979
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: you've read something physically. But now our son Ian barnburgers

980
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: in a very avid reader. He reads. He does all

981
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 1: his reading on not all all, but most of his

982
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 1: reading on kindles. So anyway, it's a generational thing, is

983
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: we're finding out anythings in life. Alan, thank you for

984
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: for for representing the fire pit so well in the

985
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: Uncharted Orders of Live Golf. It's an excellent report, and

986
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: I know there's going to be a lot more where

987
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: that came from, and nobody else is doing it. I

988
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 1: had a period of my life. Uh, I've had I've

989
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: had period some pere I followed golf excuse me, where

990
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: I followed baseball obsessively, and within that I've had two

991
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: periods where one the labor strife. This probably goes back

992
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: to the early mid eighties. The labor strife was as

993
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,760
Speaker 1: interesting to me as what was happening on the field.

994
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 1: I don't know why. It just really interested me. I'm

995
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,919
Speaker 1: not knowledgeable about it. About There was a guy, Murray Chats,

996
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: who wrote it up for the New York times. And

997
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: then much later in the Social McGuire period. Of course,

998
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: there was the home run thing that was fascinating and

999
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: I was way into that, but really the question of

1000
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: drugs in baseball, it was like a sideshow. Was unfortunate,

1001
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: but it was weirdly, weirdly fascinating. And I know that

1002
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people have that for Live golf and

1003
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: what's happening right, They're really interested in what it says

1004
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: about the person who's either rooting or not rooting for

1005
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: Live to succeed. And I don't know, so I get

1006
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: it that people really can't get enough. Yeah, I mean

1007
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: this story that posted on our website, I mean the

1008
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: amount of engagement in the comments, it's twenty times when

1009
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 1: I could have gotten from you know, a Jordan's speed

1010
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: story at at the valvespart. And yet everyone says, I

1011
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: don't care about live golf, you know, I don't follow it,

1012
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 1: but they read the stories and they react to them,

1013
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 1: and so I think I think you're right. I mean,

1014
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: it is a it is a window into so many

1015
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,959
Speaker 1: different things, and it is it's quite a big story

1016
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 1: in our game, and it's we're going to keep feeling

1017
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: it for years to come. So it's hard. That's my thesis.

1018
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: It's just hard to ignore. Whether I love it or

1019
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: hate it, it's hard to ignore. And yeah, it's going

1020
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: to reveal character. How you feel about it will reveal character,

1021
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: just like Bryson's, you know, dissing the USGA because they

1022
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: think the ball goes too far. I mean, it's a

1023
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: legitimate position to have, whether you agree with it or not.

1024
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: I know he's trying to be funny, but it just

1025
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: reveals something about Bryson. So this is a great you know,

1026
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: you know the Scott's except for a billion years. Golf

1027
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: addresses a person, they would say today, but golf addresses

1028
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: a man, and one's attitude about live undresses the person

1029
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: as well. All right, this was This is another fire drill.

1030
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: Thanks to the listeners. We appreciate your fidelity and we

1031
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: will be back in your ear soon. M for Michael Bamberger.

1032
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: This Allen ship next, that's the end. I'm that big

1033
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: and I played the win, made a fortune. When my

1034
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: ship game in, I ran the table, never thought I

1035
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: could fall. Then the winter time hit me like a cannon,

1036
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: the ball and now I can't shake this losing the stream.

1037
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: Every road I take is a dead end stream. I

1038
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: got thoughts in my head, can't get them out, Trying

1039
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: not to think what I'm thinking about. I got thoughts

1040
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: in my head, can't get them out. Trying not to

1041
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: think what I'm thinking about.