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Speaker 1: Hey, it's it could happen here a podcast about usually

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Speaker 1: bad things happening, all the bad things that are happening everywhere,

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Speaker 1: but occasionally about good things happening and people doing cool

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Speaker 1: stuff to make a better world. And this Lucky You,

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Speaker 1: Lucky all of Us happens to be one of the

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Speaker 1: latter kinds of episodes when we talk about good things happening.

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Speaker 1: UH with me in the studio, which is more of

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Speaker 1: an a femoral concept than a physical studio because there's

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Speaker 1: a plague going on. Is James Stout and Garrison Davis

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Speaker 1: co hosting the podcast Hello fellas, Greetings now today. The

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Speaker 1: thing that we're talking about, UM, we we had about

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Speaker 1: a week or so two weeks ago, represent a couple

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Speaker 1: of representatives from the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club

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Speaker 1: in Dallas, Texas come in UH and they had been

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Speaker 1: providing armed security at a couple of different Dallas area

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Speaker 1: protests against Christian nationalists. UM. I do recommend checking out

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Speaker 1: those episodes. This week, we have one representative from that

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Speaker 1: organization back on and what we'll be talking about is

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Speaker 1: there have been a series of attempted sweeps in Dallas

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Speaker 1: at a homeless camp UM and if you're not familiar

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Speaker 1: with the concept. Basically, people who are experiencing homelessness set

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Speaker 1: up encampments in order to live with some degree of

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Speaker 1: comfort and have you know, their stuff with them. Um.

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Speaker 1: These are generally in places like parks, under overpasses, that

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Speaker 1: kind of situation, and periodically the city will come through

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Speaker 1: and sweep them. The city's language is always very much

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Speaker 1: focused towards we're trying to help them, you know, get

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Speaker 1: into some sort of situation where they can find help.

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Speaker 1: But what usually winds up happening is the city takes

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people's stuff and throws it in the trash,

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Speaker 1: often before extreme weather events. UM. It's a really gnarly

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Speaker 1: thing to experience, and activists in a number of cities

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Speaker 1: have experimented with different tactics to try and stop and

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Speaker 1: delay sweeps. And what we've had happening lately over the

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Speaker 1: last week in Dallas is representatives of the Elm Fork

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Speaker 1: John Brown Gun Club have been showing up armed alongside

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Speaker 1: activists with say it with your Chest Dallas, and the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing that's been spreading on Twitter is of

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Speaker 1: course the fact that activists have shown up with guns

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Speaker 1: to stop the sweeps, and the Dallas Police have not

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Speaker 1: shown up to do the sweeps. The thing that often

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Speaker 1: gets missed in this kind of Twitter level discourse, although

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Speaker 1: is covered in a pretty good Dallas Morning News article

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Speaker 1: on the subject, is that there have also been activists,

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Speaker 1: as I said, from the Say It with Your Chest movement,

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Speaker 1: who have been showing up to help people, to provide

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Speaker 1: laundry service, transportation, food and water. And essentially what they've

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Speaker 1: been doing is trying to help people get things together

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Speaker 1: and organized to move to a new location, um, in

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Speaker 1: a manner that allows them to do so with like

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Speaker 1: dignity and comfort and not get their stuff thrown out

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Speaker 1: by the city or experienced violence from the police while

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Speaker 1: it's happening. So, UM, that is the broad situation. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna say anymore, my elf. I want to introduce

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Speaker 1: Danny from Say with Your Chest Dallas and Bubble from

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Speaker 1: the um Fort John Brown Gun Club. Thank you both

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Speaker 1: for being on the show, Thanks for having me, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for having us. Um was that a broadly accurate

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Speaker 1: summary of events? Um? Yeah, for the for the most part,

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Speaker 1: the city has actually been sweeping several They're they're cracking

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Speaker 1: down on houselessness, right now very very aggressive. And so

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Speaker 1: it's not just that one camp that we were defending

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Speaker 1: the other day, but um, the monday before we were

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Speaker 1: defending another camp. And UM, I've never seen this many

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Speaker 1: sweeps happen at one time, and I've been doing this

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Speaker 1: for a little over two years now. I want to

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Speaker 1: actually go a little bit into how your organization formed,

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Speaker 1: But before that, do you have any kind of can

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Speaker 1: you posit why the city has suddenly ramped up sweeps

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Speaker 1: so aggressively in Dallas so uh, normally talking to the

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Speaker 1: rest of the I've never I've never seen it happen

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Speaker 1: like multiple times in a week. Usually they'll do one

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Speaker 1: uh way a little bit, we'll hear a nose a

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Speaker 1: couples later or something, but multiple in a week at

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Speaker 1: different spots is definitely, UM, definitely new to us. UM

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Speaker 1: As for why, the typical reasons are like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the state there comes up in October, so they'll try

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Speaker 1: to sweep then, UM, or they'll do it UM usually

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Speaker 1: like a housing development UM and things like that, where

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Speaker 1: like the land is brought up or you know something.

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Speaker 1: But recently, UM, the motivations have been a little bit

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Speaker 1: more unclear with the aggression Um, it's kind of the

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Speaker 1: the city in terms of how they execute sweeps. It

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Speaker 1: used to be that code compliance could not touch people's belongings.

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Speaker 1: Reason certainly it has shifted to take everything, throw away everything. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, we still don't know why it happening yet.

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Speaker 1: It is certainly like part of a nationwide trend because

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Speaker 1: we're having the same things happen in Portland increasingly. And

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Speaker 1: obviously Portland and Dallas aren't the only cities where sweeps

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Speaker 1: have been ramped up. Um. And of course you also

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Speaker 1: have Oh gosh, I I just ran across the article

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Speaker 1: today that like there's discussion in certain cities about like, yes,

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Speaker 1: somewhere in Florida about like putting houseless people in like

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Speaker 1: essentially an island compound and whatnot, like basically like a

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Speaker 1: concentration camp. Right. Yeah, that's been also mentioned by people

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Speaker 1: affiliated with like the Portland City Council in the Mayor's office.

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Speaker 1: It's like essentially getting a concentrated collection of homeless people

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Speaker 1: in one closed off area. And you're like, ha, I wonder,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what they mean by that. Yeah, it's it's unsettling.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious because obviously I think what y'all are

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Speaker 1: doing in Dallas right now is extremely important and you've

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Speaker 1: been having a lot of success so far. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about how your organization because

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Speaker 1: we we chatted with the John Brown Gun Club folks

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago about how they started organizing.

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Speaker 1: How did say it with your chest get off the ground? Um,

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Speaker 1: so that was interesting. Stay with your Chest originally started

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Speaker 1: along with a lot of orcs and Mutually Works in Dallas. UM.

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Speaker 1: After George Floyd was more murdered back in June of

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Speaker 1: m we started. Um. I was in Playo at the time,

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Speaker 1: which is like a suburb that's where I grew up.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, I wasn't playing at the time, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I, me and my friends were kind of

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Speaker 1: like these suburban people can turn off their TVs and

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Speaker 1: not really have to worry about the protest going on

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Speaker 1: downtown and things like that. So we would protest on

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Speaker 1: street corners and just yell at you know, white people

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Speaker 1: in their Mercedes and you know, make them uncomfortable on purpose. Um.

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Speaker 1: Then we started linking up with other Mutual Aid organs

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Speaker 1: in Dallas, and you know it was just shifting food,

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Speaker 1: trying to carry that stuff up north. Um and then

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Speaker 1: uh then we um, well I started going to Camp

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Speaker 1: Randa UM, which was like a probably the first and

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Speaker 1: like it was a very solid example of a self

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Speaker 1: sustaining houseless encampment where people we're just allowed to be

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Speaker 1: and left alone. We're helping people a lot of them

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Speaker 1: and recovery and things like that, and um, everyone looked

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Speaker 1: out for each other. It was a really great community

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Speaker 1: before the that was such a rare project. UM. Not

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Speaker 1: to derail it too much, but I want to tell

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Speaker 1: you guys about Camp Randa. Yeah, like that'ally organized on

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Speaker 1: houses camp. The organizers outside organizers where there everyday helping.

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Speaker 1: The camp itself was organized amongst themselves. They had political

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Speaker 1: theory meetings, they had community meetings to solve issues and

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Speaker 1: resolve inter personal problems, sucking rad um and it stayed

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Speaker 1: together for nine months. It was it lasted for a minute,

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Speaker 1: I know it was approximate it was over six I believe,

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Speaker 1: but it lasted for a while at one location and

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Speaker 1: then it had to move and then um the next

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Speaker 1: location we ended up moving all the people to. They

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Speaker 1: stayed there first all ten months before um the city

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Speaker 1: sold the land and like some under the table deal

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Speaker 1: and showed up and swept everybody. It reminds me quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of a place I I worked out in

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Speaker 1: Seattle for a while, Nicholsville, which was a plot of land,

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Speaker 1: a couple of acres large where houseless people had set

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Speaker 1: up basically built like a tiny home village for themselves.

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Speaker 1: They provided solar power, um, they had arranged their own

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Speaker 1: like trash pick up. Um. It was safe and uh,

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Speaker 1: very well organized and very comfortable, like an actual fairly

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Speaker 1: high standard of living UM, good level like good good

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Speaker 1: wastewater treatment and all that kind of stuff. Um. Which

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Speaker 1: existed for a couple of years before the city came

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Speaker 1: in and swept it and destroyed everybody's houses and forced them,

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Speaker 1: you know into again kind of a series of camping situations. UM. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, you get these It's it's very

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Speaker 1: frustrating because there's this understanding that like, well, we want

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Speaker 1: them in, and part of the understanding you get from

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Speaker 1: a number of cities is like, well, we do want

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Speaker 1: them in one place, and we want them in something

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Speaker 1: that's more permanent than you know, a bunch of tents.

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Speaker 1: But if they set that up on their own and

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Speaker 1: have autonomy and have the ability to like exist with

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Speaker 1: any kind of personal freedom. Then we don't want that,

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Speaker 1: and we will send armed men and to break it up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like the city is like, oh yeah, well I don't.

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Speaker 1: I genuinely do not think of Dallas wants to house people. UM.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise the Office of Homeless Solutions simply would not exist

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Speaker 1: and they wouldn't have a way to just have money

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Speaker 1: sitting around UM, and all those people would lose their jobs,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it's not housing people. You know, people

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Speaker 1: are like, how do you do that? It's not hard,

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Speaker 1: it's not difficult. The city is spending what two billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: I'm renovating the Convention Center that could house every house

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Speaker 1: this person in Dallas for years, you know. But but

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Speaker 1: then we wouldn't be able to have all of the

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Speaker 1: wonderful things. Someone who lived in Dallas fifteen years. I

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Speaker 1: can remember one, maybe even two times when I went

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Speaker 1: to the convention Center. What would we do? I think?

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Speaker 1: Maybe one time? What's wrong with it to where we had?

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Speaker 1: Like it's Dallas prioritizes developers or anything else, and that

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Speaker 1: is more than UM a parent in how they treat

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Speaker 1: the house's population. UM. They're definitely because it's like my

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Speaker 1: my problem, right, Okay, if the city, the city is

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Speaker 1: gonna do sweeps, that's something that I can't really necessarily

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Speaker 1: stop them from doing on my own, but we can

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Speaker 1: and alleviate some of the effects of you know, um,

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Speaker 1: but when this is sweeping people in the heat like that,

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Speaker 1: we're in the cold, elderly just aid people. It's like,

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Speaker 1: y'all really are just telling them to die and the

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Speaker 1: least you could do. And I've emailed Marcy Jackson, who's

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Speaker 1: the community outreach chair for OHS, you know, She's been like, well,

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Speaker 1: they can go to the shelter. It's it's about it's

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Speaker 1: within three miles. Now, I'm like, you you're gonna walk

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Speaker 1: three You're telling somebody who's elder than they able to

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Speaker 1: walk three miles in a hundred and seven degree heat

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Speaker 1: to get to a cooling station that is only open

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Speaker 1: to like five Well, uh, there's a lot of cognitive

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Speaker 1: distance in the city. Just for a little bit of

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Speaker 1: reference too, because like we have cooling stations and stuff

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Speaker 1: up in Portland and you have similar problems. One thing

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Speaker 1: that is a benefit to folks in a place like

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Speaker 1: Oregon is that after five six pm when like this

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Speaker 1: cooling stations start to cool down. It actually does cool

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Speaker 1: down here, Like it gets cool at night even when

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Speaker 1: it's a hundred outside. That doesn't happen in Dallas during

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Speaker 1: the Yeah, I've literally had it be triple digits at

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Speaker 1: midnight and Dallas, Texas, like that's the place it is. No,

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Speaker 1: so you're still it's still a threat to life and

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Speaker 1: limb even when the sun's not beating down on you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I was calling shelters. I know, certainly, like here

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Speaker 1: we have a bunch of issues with shelters and cooling

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Speaker 1: shelters and stuff like you don't have privacy, You can't

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Speaker 1: bring your pets. They want you to look all your

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Speaker 1: possessions up somewhere else. There are like a number of

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Speaker 1: other things that really limit people's ability to feel safe accessing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the same there, but like

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Speaker 1: it's not that there's necessarily a place where someone would

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Speaker 1: feel safe and I'm not going there. It's when I

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Speaker 1: made that clear, pets are a big issue. And this

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Speaker 1: is something that again when I was at Nicholsville, people

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Speaker 1: would point out that, like folks would accuse them of

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Speaker 1: being like abusive because they had a cat or a dog,

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Speaker 1: you know, that was living with them in the encampment.

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Speaker 1: And they'd be like, well, number one, like it's okay

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Speaker 1: for me to live this way, but it's not okay

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Speaker 1: for like a cat or a dog. And also just

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Speaker 1: like do I not deserve companionship and love in my life?

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Speaker 1: Like this is what this animal is one of the

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Speaker 1: is one of the things that helps keep me. And

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Speaker 1: I talked to a number of folks who got back

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Speaker 1: into housing who were like, if we had not had

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Speaker 1: our cat with us, like I don't know that we

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Speaker 1: would have made it, but because just having that animal

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Speaker 1: with us like helped, Like that's it's for the same reason.

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Speaker 1: Everybody has animals, right, Like every single houseless person that

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Speaker 1: has a pet, has a service animal, has a that

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Speaker 1: is a service animal. As far as I'm concerned, would

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Speaker 1: you separate somebody who is disabled from their wheelchair or

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Speaker 1: would you separate somebody from there like their service animal,

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Speaker 1: their dog that they need, you know, And it's like

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Speaker 1: when you're out there, Um, I know that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have dogs for comfort, but also dogs are protection,

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Speaker 1: they are security in such a dangerous environment, um, where

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Speaker 1: people are always you know, like it's just it's just

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Speaker 1: it is unfathomable how much trauma UM goes into being houseless,

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Speaker 1: especially in Dallas, in places like dala. UM. So I'd

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Speaker 1: like to ask you a little bit, so you have

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Speaker 1: been Is this kind of the first collaboration this last

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Speaker 1: week or so, let's say it with your chest has

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Speaker 1: had with the the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club.

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Speaker 1: Had you guys been working together prior to this? Uh? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like we UM originally met members of Elm Fork when

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Speaker 1: UM Camp Ronda first started, uh back in UM and

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Speaker 1: we were collaborating on like getting people's supplies, UM tents

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Speaker 1: and things like that. I would run laundry UM with

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Speaker 1: my org uh and like yeah, we were. We just

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Speaker 1: you know, always collaborated to make sure like the people

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Speaker 1: could get what they need if somebody had supplied somebody

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Speaker 1: able to show up and we couldn't, you know, UM

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Speaker 1: just working together. Yeah, And I'm curious, UM, could you

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Speaker 1: kind of walk us through sort of how what you

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Speaker 1: see is the benefit of having folks who are visibly

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Speaker 1: armed UM for this kind of for these kind of actions,

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Speaker 1: Like how did how did number one sweep defense tend

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Speaker 1: to work? Before y'all were doing that, and how has

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Speaker 1: that altered kind of the way in which you're seeing

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Speaker 1: this activism like take effect UM as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: people from members of ELM four because they have always

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Speaker 1: shown up with UM firearms in some capacity, whether it's

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Speaker 1: concealed or open, but UM there was a noticeable difference

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Speaker 1: with the open carry UM. I know that back in

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Speaker 1: February when one of our other camps was getting swept

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Speaker 1: UM and they showed up like afterwards, we had a

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Speaker 1: meeting with the director of UM HOMEO Solutions, Christine Crosley.

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Speaker 1: She sucks UM and uh. She was like, people were like,

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Speaker 1: we were hearing reports of people that were openly armed,

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Speaker 1: and we want to we really care about the safety

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Speaker 1: of like the unhoused residents out there. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: they were more afraid of the ops then of the

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Speaker 1: five people out here with with rifles. And that's that's something.

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Speaker 1: It's like, if you're going to show up with twelve

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Speaker 1: dudes with guns, what's the problem with some of us

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Speaker 1: showing up with like a little something just in case?

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Speaker 1: You know, the state should not be the only one

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Speaker 1: to have access to firearms. That is very dangerous. UM

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Speaker 1: but also I don't mean that in a to a

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Speaker 1: kind of way. If that makes sensitive. Yeah, that does

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Speaker 1: kind of bring up an interesting point, which is if

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Speaker 1: you're showing as you're showing up kind of in this

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Speaker 1: capacity with both activists to kind of help folks with

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Speaker 1: their stuff, with with laundry and other needs, but also

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Speaker 1: people who are are carrying are fifteens and wearing plate carriers.

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Speaker 1: I imagine there's like a degree to which you are

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Speaker 1: trying to give people a heads up before, just so

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Speaker 1: they don't be like, oh, suddenly there's spokes with guns.

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Speaker 1: What's going on? Right? Can you kind of walk us

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Speaker 1: through the community outreach explaining sort of like how you

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Speaker 1: how you actually go about letting people know what's going

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Speaker 1: to be happening and stuff and and what the folks

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Speaker 1: showing up are doing well when it comes to sweeps, um,

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Speaker 1: And normally I focus a lot on just making sure

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Speaker 1: that people are okay and defending them. UM. When I

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Speaker 1: I do not necessarily like ask for work to show

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Speaker 1: up with guns. I'm just more like I assume if

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Speaker 1: y'all are going to be there, they are going to

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Speaker 1: be um, you know, and sometimes there was usually the

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Speaker 1: residents are like the residents have some of the residents

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Speaker 1: have firearms themselves, you know, so they're like, well aware, Um,

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Speaker 1: there are some cases where like people will get a

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Speaker 1: little bit anxious about it, and you know, we kind

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Speaker 1: of have to be like, if you really don't want

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Speaker 1: the guns here, then that's fine, we can move them.

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Speaker 1: It in the past with this track record, like usually

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Speaker 1: the city kind of backs off a little bit when

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Speaker 1: they know that y'all are actutely protected, you know, because um,

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Speaker 1: the city is the city is a bully. They really

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Speaker 1: do like picking on people who the most vulnerable of us,

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Speaker 1: you know. Um, And so lately the guns have been

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Speaker 1: seeming to have them back off a little bit. I

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Speaker 1: know when they pulled up, Like when ELMP pulled up

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Speaker 1: and hopped out the car with the rifles, all of

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Speaker 1: the cops at we squatted up into like a little

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Speaker 1: a little i don't know, pick circle and they started talking, uh,

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Speaker 1: and they were genuinely like, what do we do hold

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Speaker 1: on me when we haven't? You know? Yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of the that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: story as we're coming into it right now, which is

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Speaker 1: they were supposed to be a sweep what is it

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Speaker 1: five days ago now Friday? Yeah, almost a week and

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Speaker 1: y'all have been showing up a couple of times in

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Speaker 1: that period to help people get there, get things together

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Speaker 1: and whatnot and get which is an important the fact

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Speaker 1: that you're helping them kind of move and and doing

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Speaker 1: it more in kind of their own time frame as

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Speaker 1: opposed to the city shows up and you've got to

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Speaker 1: like grab what you can or lose everything. Um. Is

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Speaker 1: important because you're also you're not just showing up with

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Speaker 1: activists with guns and saying like the city we're not

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Speaker 1: going to let any like no one's going to move,

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Speaker 1: and we're like we're we're drawing a line in the sand,

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Speaker 1: which is not would not be a particularly safe call.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't think my my main priority out there because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of black and brown bodies out there

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Speaker 1: and people is making sure they are safe. And Um,

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Speaker 1: even before this last one, like a lot of us

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Speaker 1: were concerned about the guns because like we didn't want

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Speaker 1: things to escalate, and we never know with police, sometimes

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Speaker 1: they get really excited and sometimes they back off. It's

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Speaker 1: really uh really don't know. UM, So we were also

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Speaker 1: taking that into consideration. UM, and I was kind of

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Speaker 1: like the unfork know, like listen and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of black and brown people out here, and you don't

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Speaker 1: want to escalate anything and you know, put people in danger. UM,

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Speaker 1: And it seems like this time the city I didn't

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Speaker 1: really want to mess with that. So that's good, but

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Speaker 1: it's always important to keep that in mind any time

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Speaker 1: you have firearms population. And I'm curious, um Bubble, can

359
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Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the how this kind

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Speaker 1: of organizing is sort of different than the stuff you've

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Speaker 1: been doing at at counter protesting events. Like what are

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Speaker 1: kind of the different things that y'all are keeping in

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Speaker 1: mind as you as you make action plans for days

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Speaker 1: like this compared to when you know you're showing up

365
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Speaker 1: to at a at a protest to kind of counter

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Speaker 1: groups of Proud Boys or whatever. Yeah, it's pretty different, um,

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Speaker 1: in that when we're doing security for marches or um,

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Speaker 1: you know, protecting Pride events. Uh, it's not like a

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Speaker 1: direct confrontation with so it's it's a bit it's a

370
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Speaker 1: bit different. It's a little bit more high stakes. UM

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Speaker 1: when we do stop the sweep things, you know, we

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Speaker 1: want to we want to push back, but at the

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Speaker 1: same um, you know, not be the first to cross

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Speaker 1: any lines. Um. So it is, you know, it is.

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Speaker 1: It is a more sensitive situation. I think it requires

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Speaker 1: different kind of planning. Um. And of course there's there's

377
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Speaker 1: all these bystanders, there's all the residents there who were

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Speaker 1: there to help that we don't want to endanger in

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Speaker 1: any way. Um, like Danny was saying. I actually had

380
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Speaker 1: um what ended up being a pretty cool conversation with

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Speaker 1: a resident afterward. But he was kind of an organizer

382
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Speaker 1: in the camp and he was talking to me and

383
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Speaker 1: he said, you know, I don't think we want the guns, like,

384
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Speaker 1: we don't want any trouble. And I leaned over to

385
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Speaker 1: him and I whispered to him, Look, we're just here

386
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Speaker 1: with guns to try to get the cops to back off. Um.

387
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 1: I think they're actually backing off now, because we've actually

388
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Speaker 1: just heard the cops that we're going to leave. I said,

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Speaker 1: I think they're backing off. We're gone, don't worry about it.

390
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Speaker 1: And he said, wait, wait, you know, don't leave yet,

391
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Speaker 1: Wait till they leave. Um. And now that that's uh,

392
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Speaker 1: I am interested, like as the uh, the actual folks

393
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Speaker 1: showing up armed, bubble, do you guys have kind of

394
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Speaker 1: a like standard set of responses and stuff that you

395
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: work through ahead of time to kind of explain things

396
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Speaker 1: to people and make sure everyone's on the same page

397
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: in terms of how they're doing it. Um. Yeah, we

398
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: have some of that worked out. That's an evolving thing

399
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: where we're trying to standardize. Yeah, work a long time

400
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: with a core group of people that knows each other

401
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: really well. Um, so we have like seen each other

402
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: at you know, dozens of these things, and we know

403
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: how each other operate. With some newer people coming in,

404
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, we are working now on kind of standardizing

405
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: those responses and uh, you know, sharing our past experiences

406
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: and are thinking and all that. Um. Now, question for

407
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: for both Slash either of you. As you've gotten more

408
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: into doing sweep defenses, what have been some of kind

409
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: of the lessons learned Things that have been like, Okay,

410
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: we went into it thinking like this was a good

411
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: idea and it turned out that like that doesn't work

412
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: very well, so we've had to do this like just

413
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: things that have kind of um, best practices that have

414
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: kind of evolved over time doing this. Um honestly a

415
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: lot of it A lot when when tensions are really

416
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,479
Speaker 1: high like that, UM, because you come to sweeps like

417
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: I'm the one kind of like dealing with UM a

418
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: lot of like overseeing and stuff like that, and when

419
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: tensions are really high like that. Honestly, the best thing

420
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: is harm reduction. Harm Reduction is at the pinnacle of

421
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: it's at the core of like whatever we do UH,

422
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: and part of that is meeting people where they're at

423
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: UM and making sure that we UM help the people.

424
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: I show up, I shift you not. One of the

425
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: best things that we started doing is showing up with

426
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: packs of Newports on God. It makes it a lot UM.

427
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: You know, when you're going through trauma like that, UM

428
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: and someone hands you a cigarette, that's something that not

429
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: only helps you kind of regulate yourself when you're experiencing

430
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 1: this high stress situation where you're being evicted from your

431
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: home and you're gonna lose your stuff and you're afraid

432
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: people are gonna steals, and it's a whole lot that

433
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: helps bring people back and it makes it a lot

434
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: easier for us to UM work with people and UM

435
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: still maintain the bonds that we've created and maintain the

436
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: levels of trust that we have with the community. UM. Literally,

437
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: some simple things like handing out cigarettes, um, during because

438
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: that's a way that we're like, hey, we're here for you,

439
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: we know what you need. Yeah, and we're not We're

440
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: also we're not here to like judge what's best for you,

441
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, and do some like nanny state ship like

442
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: you need a cigarette right now, right like it's stressful,

443
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: not really like hell, I would need a cigarette to

444
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: you know. At that point, um, there was somebody who

445
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: was like, you're asking people for newports. You need to

446
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: stop doing that, Like that's really unhealthy. And I thought

447
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: you were trying to say these people and it's like,

448
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say for starters. We're not Captain America.

449
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: We're not no avengers, Okay. We are regular people fulfilling

450
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: a responsibility. And that responsibility is to be there for

451
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: our neighbors. That's how movements happen, that's how anything happens.

452
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: And all of that is rooted in you know, indigenous

453
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: um communalism and theory and stuff like that that I

454
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: think is really important. It's just fulfilling that responsibility and

455
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: being there for people and when it comes to because

456
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, we always try to provide folks listening in

457
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: other towns and stuff who may be like inspired by

458
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: this with options for how they might move forward on

459
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: trying to replicate some of y'all's successes. If people are

460
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 1: looking at okay, I would like to help do sweep

461
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: defensive I would like to do, you know, work kind

462
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: of like this in my own community. How do you

463
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: recommend because obviously there's you know, how how to build

464
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: organizations is another matter. But like, if you've got a

465
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: group together to help folks, how do you recommend kind

466
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: of starting the process of introducing yourself Because you can't

467
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: just like show up and be like hey, like just

468
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: be like, hey, we're gonna certainly not with guns, but yeah,

469
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: and don't um. You have to develop a really really

470
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: strong report with your community first, and you also need

471
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: to make sure that's your community. Like you know, UM,

472
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: I I've spent a really long time perioding UM relationships

473
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: with the unhoused populations of Health Dallas, UM, and that

474
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: took literal years, you know, UM. Expecting people to trust

475
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: you off the bat, and expecting people to just like

476
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you're one of the good guys. It's

477
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: not going to happen, especially if you're white, like honestly,

478
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: if we be in if we're keeping in a book,

479
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: because like, there's a whole lot of black and brown

480
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: people out there in these vulnerable communities, and usually the

481
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: white people that they see are the white people who

482
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: are talking down to them and not treating them as

483
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: human beings. The main thing that people, the people out

484
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: there are need most is consistency from you, even if

485
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: you don't even if one day you don't have anything,

486
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: and you can just hand out water there with them

487
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: and developing community that way, you know. And one of

488
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: the things that people tell me a lot is that

489
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: just it was it's been vering shocking to me how

490
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: much I've heard it. Is people are like, you don't

491
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: talk to us, it's like how other people talk to us.

492
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: You talk to us like people, And the sheer amount

493
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: of time. I was really shocked by how many times

494
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: I've actually heard that, because I'm like, you know, I

495
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: don't really think I talked much differently from anybody else.

496
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: But then when I go out there and see other people,

497
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: just random people handing out macgriddles or whatever, you know,

498
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: there's definitely a switch. Like if you were talking to

499
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: a pet or to a child, you know, Um, like

500
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: you pity something, people will not want you around because honestly,

501
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: they don't want your pity. What they want is bottles

502
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: of water. You know. If you're just only showing up

503
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: when ship's going down, um, you don't actually have the

504
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: people trust. And I think if anything, that hurts it

505
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: a little bit because it's like, oh, I am only

506
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: here to make you feel good about yourself. You want

507
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: to be the one saving everybody. It's like you've got

508
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: to dismantle your savior complex first before you do anything.

509
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: And I think it's good to talk about, um, kind

510
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: of how this actually how these actions actually look on

511
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: the ground, because again, the thing that sort of has

512
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: gone semiviral on Twitter has been the fact that like,

513
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, people with guns stood off the cops. But

514
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: if you're imagining some sort of like big armed standoff,

515
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: like that's not how this has looked. Which is the

516
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: thing I liked about the Dallas Morning News article. Um,

517
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: which we will do you mean the article or the

518
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: opinion piece? Sorry, yes, UM, I am pulling it up

519
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: right now just to have that we'll have it. There's

520
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: an opinion already. Oh any time on howse people pop

521
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: up into discourse someone is ready to write again. Yeah,

522
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: it's the the article, the article armed activists block Dallas

523
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: workers from cleaning a homeless camp. That's an acceptable opinion.

524
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: That's that's not the one I was talking about. That

525
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about is titled uh and it is

526
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: a news article Dallas delays moving homeless camp after activists

527
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: show up, which did a good job of not kind

528
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: of over emphasizing the armed part and talking about the

529
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: actual work y'all were doing in the community. I was

530
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: kind of impressed with it, especially given the Dallas Morning

531
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: News is most recent like general trends, shall we say,

532
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: and considering their opinion piece they published yesterday. Yeah, I

533
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: hadn't seen that one. Could you talk a little bit

534
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: about how these these actions have actually on the ground

535
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: during the day of Yeah, so on the ground, um,

536
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: some people arrived very early, and you really never know

537
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,239
Speaker 1: when the cops in the city are going to show up.

538
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: So Elm Fork showed up close to nine and they

539
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: are already like four cops there, um, and that you know,

540
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate. We probably should have shown up earlier. We

541
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, if if we're going to go to protect

542
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: the other activists, you know, you don't want to leave

543
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: the unarmed activists exposed to um police violence. Um, but

544
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: either way, you know, we we formed up. It was

545
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: maybe two unarmed activists for every armed activists, and we

546
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: discussed what to do. Some people decided to block off

547
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: the streets with their vehicles. UM. The cops were there

548
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: for a solid hour and a half before h Almost

549
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: Solution or the Office of Homeless Solutions and Code Compliance

550
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: started arriving. So by that time, UM, a good number

551
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: of armed activists were there and the cops had been

552
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: discussing amongst themselves, UM, you know, whatever it is that

553
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: they were talking about. But when oh HS and Code

554
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: got there, Uh, they talked with the cops for about

555
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: thirty minutes and then they started leaving. During that time,

556
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: the unarmed activists were packing things up, UM get you know,

557
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: getting people ready to move if those people wanted to move. Uh.

558
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: One thing to to kind of go back a little bit.

559
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: One thing that we've learned carrying is it's very difficult

560
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: to do the same things that we were doing as

561
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: unarmed activists. UM. You know, we we don't really want

562
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: to be carrying tents and stuff while also trying to

563
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: negotiate you know, having a rifle in our arms. So

564
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: oh uh, you know, there's kind of a division of

565
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: labor there. But you know, before two hours had even passed,

566
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: basically the sweep was called off. The city and the

567
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: cops left and the mutual aid work continued throughout the

568
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: rest of the day. Uh, ELM Fork had some members

569
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: switching out, you know, some people had to go to work.

570
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: Some people arrived around noon that was kind of the

571
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: main switch out point and uh, you know a lesser

572
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: number of people but still a significant amount stayed there

573
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: until four or five pm. Whenever M four comes with guns.

574
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: The main thing that I like to have them do

575
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: is surveillance and be watching so that way we can

576
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: focus on UM having other volunteers actually help people, you know,

577
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 1: and like have them help them move and stuff. And

578
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: the surveillance definitely helps because what happens when the cops

579
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: leave and when the city leaves is that they'll still

580
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: have people like watching UM and driving around and trying

581
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: to surveil us UM and so having more eyes on

582
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: that situation and having them know like, yeah, we're still

583
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: here is really helpful. Great, UM, thank you. Did anybody

584
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: else have additional questions? To ask James you had one

585
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: or two more things. Yeah, I'm like, I'm interested in

586
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: and maybe asking bubble this because I'm just looking at

587
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: the pictures on the on the Dallas Morning News story

588
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: And incredibly they didn't lead with a picture of you

589
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: all sort of suited and booted in full battle rattle,

590
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: which I think is good on their part. But how

591
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: do you present an event like this? Right? Like, obviously

592
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: I think we should probably mention that, Like, I'm guessing

593
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: it's legal to open carry where you are, so you're

594
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: not like immediately criming and therefore provoking a superfine confrontation

595
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: with the police. Um. Although obviously the police are always

596
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 1: turning up armed um and that always brings violence into

597
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: the equation. But are you like masks? Do you full

598
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: like this person I'm seeing is like masked helmet god

599
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: plate carrier? H Is that Jeremany? How you present or

600
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: is that left up to individuals? I want to Um,

601
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: we try to be pretty uniform, but it definitely varies

602
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: by action. I think the last time we came out armed, um,

603
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: we were not in helmets and plate carriers. Um. But

604
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: you know everyone has one now and uh, we discussed

605
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 1: it beforehand we decided to go that way. Um, we

606
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: try not to park directly where we're going to get seen,

607
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, if all possible, Um, because we do need

608
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: to get out Europe, you know, walkover in all our stuff. Um.

609
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you know, for a lot of

610
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: actions now, including security, that's kind of been our uh

611
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: go to way of presenting. The full masts are very important.

612
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: We've moved from like you know, medical style masks to

613
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: all the clava style masks just to get more skin coverage,

614
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: protect our identities better. Yeah, it makes sense. And one

615
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: other thing I just wanted to ask, and perhaps like

616
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: explaining in a context, it might might not be read

617
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: of it in Texas, I don't know. Um, in California,

618
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: at least you need two proofs of address to earn

619
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: a firearm right. Um, and if you're unhoused you might

620
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: not have those. And therefore people are alienated from what

621
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: it's theoretically they're right. Um, whether you want to see

622
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: that as a universe or right or constitutional right? Is

623
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: that the case there? Or these people? But if they

624
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: wanted to Texas doesn't give a fun Texas, you don't

625
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 1: you don't have to file a four or four seven

626
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: three to buy a gun in the state of Texas.

627
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: My gun literally was just given to me by somebody.

628
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: I didn't have to do a hidle transfer or nothing. Like.

629
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: Guns are so easy to get in Texas. It's actually

630
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: really scary private sale. You can basically do whatever you want. Yeah,

631
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: it is hard not to wind up owning a gun

632
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: in the States. Easier than owning a place to stay. Definitely,

633
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: way easier. Yeah, the country method okay, magnificent. Okay, well yeah,

634
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: not the case in other states. And I guess to know,

635
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: and and nothing that we've said here should be taken

636
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: as legal advice, are e, how to protest or partake

637
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: an armed activism, because that can vary, that varies wildly

638
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: based on your zip code. And everything we've talked about

639
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 1: today is a massive series of felonies and a number

640
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: of other parts of the United States, like, you're not

641
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: you're not going to be providing sweep defense in New

642
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: York City in this manner. You know, you do this

643
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: where I live in Borda, le show up into consideration. Yeah,

644
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: so take obviously, I mean that's a big part of

645
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: what you're saying, though, is you have to take the

646
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: situation on the ground. You have to take the situation

647
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: with these people's individuals into You can't just you can't

648
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: just go in and impose like this is how we're

649
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: going to do sweet defense. You have to go in

650
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: there like being willing to learn and adapt because, um,

651
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: this is not you know, your day to day life,

652
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: and it is life for folks there, and you have

653
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: to come in willing to learn and understand what they

654
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: need rather than like what you think they need. Yeah,

655
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: the we never know what the city is gonna show

656
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: up with each time. Like the Monday sweep before this

657
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: past one, it was all marshals. It wasn't even act

658
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: like regular dp D. It was all marshals. They were

659
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: ready to arrest. They had bulldozers and cranes and all

660
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: types of ship um. And that was also that was

661
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: kind of oftening because I was like, wow, y'all are

662
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: being mad aggressive this time. I think we just pissed

663
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: them off too much to the point where they were like,

664
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: we have to be you know, meaner about it. Uh,

665
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: I mean, but we hain't been arrested. Yeah, fingers crossed.

666
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: I do want to win. I do want to mention

667
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: one more thing. I know, we've talked about how this

668
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of pertains to Dallas, and you know, had the

669
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: similar you know situations on increasing sweeps across the country

670
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: in Portland. I think last month there was an episode

671
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: on this show about a homeless encampment in Ohio and

672
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: in terms of like similar stuff that has happened to

673
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: kind of demonstrate this is like, you know, this is

674
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: the thing going on all across the country. UH. There

675
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: was a really interesting situation in Boise, Idaho earlier this

676
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: year that we may want to cover more in depth

677
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: in the future. But in January, when it was freezing outside,

678
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: protesters and UH and homeless people launched an encampment in

679
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: front of the Boise State Capital, UH to kind of

680
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: both provide you know, some type of shelter and community

681
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: to help keep each other warm, but also in front

682
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: of the capital as like a protest to demand access

683
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: to shelter um. You know, and when while in the

684
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: middle of like a pretty bad housing crisis and as

685
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: it's freezing outside, UH, people at the camp faced a

686
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: lot of basically NonStop harrassment from the state, whether that's

687
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: police or like state state police. UH. They also faced

688
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: a lot of UH problems from far right militia groups.

689
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: The Idaho Liberty Dogs showed up to harass people. There

690
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 1: was you know, militia showing up with guns. UM, so

691
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: you can see like another instance where something that you

692
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: know arm where another instance where armed community defense could

693
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: be UH could be a part in trying to keep

694
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: of situations like that from not escalating if done properly. Obviously,

695
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: if done improperly, that can escalate situations. It's up to

696
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, you have to make sure that you're with

697
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: people who are you, who you know, who you trust,

698
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: and who are responsible. But it's just it's it's another

699
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: instance of stuff like this happening. UH anti fascists and

700
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 1: other activists were able to push we're we're able to

701
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: keep conflicts from these militia groups to be relatively low

702
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: at at the at the encampment and after a few

703
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: months and like courts were trying to shut the protest.

704
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: That was unsuccessful because of certain laws around camping on

705
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: on like capital grounds for protests. But after a few

706
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: months the protest was able to end and the city

707
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: is now been pushed by the protest to open up

708
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: possibly hundreds of units of shelter in the near future.

709
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: So you see other instances of of these types of

710
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: protests that you know rely on, a lot of like

711
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: radical mutual aid, a lot of resistance to the state violence,

712
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of resistance to far right

713
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: violence actually being some like successful. Um, So there's a

714
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: lot of places to learn from in this type of

715
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: thing around homeless encampments and encountering state violence. Would recommend,

716
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: uh it's going down, has a lot of good coverage

717
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: of the Boys Idaho thing. So yeah, that's just like

718
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 1: a whole whole other angle to this, to this sort

719
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: of trend that we've been seeing the past year. I

720
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: would like to say that you are not Fidel Castro.

721
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: You know, you are not the revolutionary leader. You are

722
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: not the one you know like, and you need to

723
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: keep that in mind when you're moving in these spaces

724
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: and doing this type of work. Is if your goal

725
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: is to try and be like the guy you know, uh,

726
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: that does way more harm than good and that's really

727
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: important to keep in mind. UM and dismantling your savior

728
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: complex as part of that. UM. Of course, in that case,

729
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: you know, the house is people uh, residents were you know,

730
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: consenting to it and things like that, but please do

731
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: take into account the amount of danger that you are

732
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: putting very the most vulnerable populations into. Um, it is

733
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily a good idea, We're morally okay idea to

734
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: uh make houseless people into your people's army, you know

735
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: that is not I want to make sure that everybody

736
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: you know listening is also well aware of like, that

737
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: is the wrong way to go about this. The people's

738
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: army should be people like us, not the most vulnerable

739
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: of us, because they are already fighting very hard. So

740
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: that means that's like it's the same thing like saying

741
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 1: why people should be at the front lines protecting black

742
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: and brown people during protests. It's the same exact concept.

743
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: You protect the most vulnerable of the group. You do

744
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: not make them, um, you know, your army and try

745
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: to convert them into something and be the leader of

746
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: that either. Um, that is that is not the way

747
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: to go about that. Yeah, if you're if you're if

748
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: you're entering into this relationship with the plan that like

749
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: this is a way for us to build power for

750
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: whatever and as opposed to we're here to like help

751
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: these people, Um, then you're you're putting them second to

752
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: whatever your political goals are, which is bad broadly speaking,

753
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know I know at least in

754
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: the case of the idea of of in the Ohio

755
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: encampment that we talked about earlier this month, UM, and

756
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: the IDA who want as well, a large number of

757
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: people who are like leading up that project and in

758
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: prominent ortization rules were houses people who are living at

759
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: those camps. Like, it is very important to have people

760
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: who are like you don't want to go in as

761
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: someone with stable housing and be like, Okay, I'm in

762
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,720
Speaker 1: charge of this thing now. No, it's like the people

763
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: who are actually experiencing it need to be the critical

764
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: role in actually how it functions. Yeah, and there we've

765
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 1: had not we but like there was somebody who tried

766
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: to do that, um, and it definitely did more harm

767
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: than good. Um. Putting your political goals over just the

768
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: people is always going to fail every single time. Yeah,

769
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: listen to the people. If they're not leading it, don't

770
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 1: do it. You know, like at that point, your only

771
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: priorities should be getting them what they need and defending

772
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: them if necessary, trying to lead stuff and you know,

773
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: have them putting them into more vulnerable situations than they're

774
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: already at without like fully being transparent with people, or

775
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: being transparent with all the risks involved, you know, like

776
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: it's that's real, grimy, real, not okay behavior. UM. So

777
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: that's just something I also want to caution people against.

778
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: And all of that definitely roots back to dismantling your

779
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: savior complex and there's um a lot of good um

780
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: resources out there um for starting with that process. If

781
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: you have not already some of them wrong with your

782
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: chest Instagram, I'll kick it out and follow us or

783
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: something I don't know. Yeah, yeah, do you wanna I think,

784
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm I'm at out of questions personally,

785
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: do we want to um? Uh end with kind of yeah,

786
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: how folks can follow you and stay in touch with

787
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: what y'all are doing or potentially even support you. Yeah,

788
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 1: we are at say it with your chest dt X

789
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: on Instagram. UM. I also organized with the Dallas Liberation Movement,

790
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: which is a bigger or that mobilizes across the nine

791
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: thousand square miles of DFW. UM. I run that with

792
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: three of my good friends and organizers. Uh. And so

793
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: you can follow us at Dallas Liberation m v MT

794
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: on Instagram. UM Oh if you're willing, able and financially stable,

795
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 1: throw us some cash, lease and listen to black women.

796
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: Listen to black and indigenous women. That's all I got,

797
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: all right, um, bubble, did you have anything to add? Yeah,

798
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: I think it's important to have diverse collection of groups. Um.

799
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: You know, Danny's a hero, she's out there almost every day. UM.

800
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: For ELM Fork. We do a lot of trainings, we

801
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: do a lot of classes, um that take up our resources,

802
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: but we have these longstanding relationships so that we can

803
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 1: support each other um when need be. UM. You know,

804
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: take care of your take care of your spaces, take

805
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 1: care of your communities. Like Danny said, UM, focus on

806
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: the people in those spaces, wther that be uh and

807
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: housed people or your own organizers and activists. You know,

808
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: you gotta keep you gotta keep things safe. It's hot

809
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: out here. There's been a lot of stress and and conflicts,

810
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: and you always have to practice UM restorative justice and accountability. UM.

811
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: And you know, just keep fighting, keep keep loving each

812
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: other there all right, Well that's gonna do it for

813
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: everybody here at It could happen here today. Uh yeah,

814
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: go go go do something good. It could happen here

815
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts

816
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media

817
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the I Heart

818
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts,

819
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: you can find sources for It could happen here, updated

820
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks

821
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: for listening.