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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's Sophia and welcome back to work in progress.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest is basically the original influencer before social media

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Speaker 1: stardom was even really a thing, not content to ride

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Speaker 1: the gigantic wave of YouTube popularity, she co founded her

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Speaker 1: own media and technology company, Maker Studios. After helping develop

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Speaker 1: and expand the company for six years, Disney purchased Maker

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Speaker 1: Studios for about seven hundred million dollars. After that, our

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Speaker 1: guests got back to work to start another giant project

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Speaker 1: from the ground up all over again, and that is

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Speaker 1: Lisa Donovan. In a nutshell, Lisa wasn't only one of

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Speaker 1: the pioneers of YouTube. She was one of the first

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Speaker 1: content creators to cross over into mainstream entertainers when she

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Speaker 1: joined the cast of Mad TV for their two thousand

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Speaker 1: six season, and even added model to her growing resume.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it was an

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurial drive that motivated her to lay the groundwork for

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Speaker 1: the Pattern, an app she developed in a company she

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Speaker 1: is now CEO of. It's a self actualization platform on

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Speaker 1: like anything else out there, and without a single advertisement.

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Speaker 1: The Pattern recently surpassed a staggering fifteen million users Oh.

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Speaker 1: I have so many questions for Lisa about what it

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Speaker 1: was like to be a touch done for YouTube as

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Speaker 1: it was just becoming popular, what motivates and sustains her

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Speaker 1: business success, and how she developed into who she is

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Speaker 1: today and came up with this company. Getting to see

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Speaker 1: a more personal side of Lisa is a rare thing.

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Speaker 1: So I feel honored to have her here, and I

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Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed today's interview on work in Progress. I

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Speaker 1: am sitting down, as you know, today with Lisa Donovan,

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Speaker 1: who is the founder of the Pattern, and we just

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Speaker 1: went through an analyzed my pattern together, and I took

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Speaker 1: a copious six pages of notes. You all know I

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Speaker 1: love a little bit of curriculum, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: get into how this all works. But before we jump

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Speaker 1: into the present and how it is informed by your work,

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Speaker 1: I actually really love to go backwards first. With all

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Speaker 1: of my guests, I I'm always so curious how a

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Speaker 1: fascinating person like yourself that I'm sitting across from today

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Speaker 1: wound up here. So if we go back to the beginning,

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Speaker 1: was Lisa as a child interested in the spiritual and

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Speaker 1: in the psychological and in the way that people related

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Speaker 1: to each other or were you were you thinking about

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Speaker 1: completely different things. That's a great question. I I think

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Speaker 1: I was always fascinated by people, always really really super curious,

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Speaker 1: very interested in people, very interested information and psychology. Definitely.

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Speaker 1: I liked sort of watching asking. I mean, anybody who

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Speaker 1: knows I ask a lot of questions, some some people

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Speaker 1: your gemini. UM, so super curious about people and what

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Speaker 1: motivates them. Um. I did not grow up in a

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Speaker 1: spiritual type home. It was much more you know, logical, cerebral.

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Speaker 1: Didn't grow up with religion. But I think looking back,

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Speaker 1: I probably was connected to those things and just didn't

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Speaker 1: realize it, if that makes sense. And but I did

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Speaker 1: not consciously think of myself as anybody spiritual or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. This came later when I discovered sort of

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Speaker 1: astrology and my life took a turn and I wind

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Speaker 1: up getting more on a spiritual path. But the psychology, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that piece of it, Oh, it was very interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that tracks. I think I was very similar as a kid,

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Speaker 1: and I I guess I'm surprised to hear you say

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Speaker 1: that you grew up in such a cerebral household because

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Speaker 1: both of your parents are artists in their own right.

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Speaker 1: So I suppose when I, when I you know, discovered

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Speaker 1: that fact, I assumed that perhaps something was was different. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were. It's just more my dad grew up you know,

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Speaker 1: Irish Catholic, very religious. I was gonna be like a priest,

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Speaker 1: but then sort of left that world. He was in

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Speaker 1: aquarious moon, like, you know, very different, the out of

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Speaker 1: the box guy and sort of you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: left organized religion. So we grew up in a home

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Speaker 1: where like, we're not going to have any organized religion,

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Speaker 1: no religion, you know, and we don't. And he was

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Speaker 1: much more logical about it. It wasn't there just wasn't

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Speaker 1: that spirituality in the home, even though he was incredibly

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Speaker 1: creative um person and he you know, his job was

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Speaker 1: to be a wedding photographer, which wasn't so fun, but

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Speaker 1: he made documentaries for his creative passion. And my mom

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Speaker 1: was an artist, um. But also she didn't grow up

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Speaker 1: in a religious time, so we just didn't have that

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Speaker 1: part of it. And I think the older I got

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Speaker 1: that's what was missing from my life because I think

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Speaker 1: it's mine body spirit and if the spirit isn't there,

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Speaker 1: something is missing. And I think, um, that's that was

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Speaker 1: a huge change in my life going down that path. Yeah. Wow,

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Speaker 1: all of my sort of systems are firing because you're

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Speaker 1: making me realize. And I've obviously thought about this a lot.

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Speaker 1: But for me, I grew up in a household that

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Speaker 1: was a jumble of deeply Catholic, completely agnostic, and Jewish.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my mom's Jewish. It's funny. Interesting. So between

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Speaker 1: my family and my extended family, the sort of blending

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Speaker 1: of faith, traditions and ideas. I always felt very close

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Speaker 1: to spirituality, but also very confused about how we could

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Speaker 1: fight wars. You know, whether I went to church or synagogue,

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Speaker 1: I was like, everybody's basically saying the same thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's like it's basically like it's just people trying on

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Speaker 1: different sweaters. I don't understand they're all a sweater. They're

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Speaker 1: different colors and they're made of different materials, but like

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Speaker 1: we're talking about sweaters. And so for me, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: I leaned into the cerebral side of spirituality and started

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Speaker 1: studying religion, all different kinds of religion. I took a

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Speaker 1: really fascinating theology course my first year at university because

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Speaker 1: I had been studying all of these sort of Eastern

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Speaker 1: philosophies through early high school and then spent my senior

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Speaker 1: year in high school studying Islam, and then I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to know more and more and more because I

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Speaker 1: started with two and I needed to understand the rest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm fascinated by you saying that because I

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Speaker 1: do think there's something about that spiritual notion that that

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Speaker 1: there's something bigger, that we are all connected by an

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Speaker 1: invisible thread that's really good for us. Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean growing up without religion, it is really terrifying because

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Speaker 1: as a kid, I think I was obsessed with understanding it,

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Speaker 1: and like you, I went the cerebral route. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I have to understand this. How does this work? I

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Speaker 1: don't understand what's happening here, because I think it is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: If you don't. I think it's whether you're a child

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Speaker 1: or an adult. If if there isn't sort of that

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Speaker 1: connection to there is something greater. I think it's not easy.

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Speaker 1: You know, if it's all on you and you're like

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Speaker 1: I it's just me and you know and nothing else.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's it's a certain way to live.

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Speaker 1: It's not it's not easy, and I think it's a

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Speaker 1: kid that can be very overwhelming. And that's where religion

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Speaker 1: can be really wonderful because it makes sense of things

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Speaker 1: for you, and in a certain way, my spiritual path

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Speaker 1: when I started going on, I mean, the pattern itself,

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Speaker 1: when you think about it, really is somebody with a

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Speaker 1: cerebral mind trying to make sense of of emotions and

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Speaker 1: things that are overwhelming. That's how it started in a

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Speaker 1: certain way. So, yeah, I relate to what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: because you went down the lane of like, how do

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Speaker 1: I understand this? Yeah? Well, and I got curious about

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Speaker 1: it because the fervency of religion scared me because I

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Speaker 1: I saw that I belonged to, to quote, separate religious

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Speaker 1: groups and they were groups that had killed each other

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Speaker 1: over their religion. And I was like, this is super toxic.

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Speaker 1: How how could you claim to believe in, you know,

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Speaker 1: the sanctity of life for oneness and and have a

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Speaker 1: history like the Crusades. I don't understand this. And so

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Speaker 1: for me, what I wanted was was to get what

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Speaker 1: you just explained to me is how my brain works.

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Speaker 1: I wanted the thirty thou foot view. I didn't care

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Speaker 1: so much for which sweater you were putting on. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to understand why we all wanted a sweater. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and to find the through line of the something special,

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Speaker 1: the sacredness in you as the sacredness in me. It

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Speaker 1: gave me an understanding that for me personally felt larger

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Speaker 1: than anyone faith tradition and made the world makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It helped me understand why I felt like I was

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Speaker 1: worshiping when I was in nature. Why the you know,

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Speaker 1: there's something larger, can be the planet, it can be

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Speaker 1: the thousand year old redwood, it can be the spark

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Speaker 1: that enabled you or me. It really helped me because

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Speaker 1: I was having a very hard time with the judgment,

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Speaker 1: cruelty and and killing disguised as faith. Well. But that's

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Speaker 1: and that's also the difference, like being connected to spirit

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Speaker 1: or whatever, your connection is to something greater or God

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Speaker 1: or spirit, whatever you wanna call it, doesn't really have

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Speaker 1: to have anything to do with religion, right because that's

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Speaker 1: the organization of that's the control of it. And of

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Speaker 1: course the history and crusades and all the things that

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Speaker 1: have been done in the name of God or spirit,

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Speaker 1: you know, is the corruption of it. And it's really

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Speaker 1: when I talk about spirit and being connected. It's really

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Speaker 1: whatever it's personal to you. It's looking at a flower,

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Speaker 1: taking a walk in nature, talking to God, talking to spirit,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that's yours, that's personal, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's such a gift if that can come

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Speaker 1: into your life and you can connect with that, because

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Speaker 1: there is you know, we are, we are all one.

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Speaker 1: It isn't us alone, you know, this is this is uh,

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Speaker 1: We're connected and very deep, amazing ways that will never

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Speaker 1: really understand, and that is the mystery of life. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's so neat. I don't know part of

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Speaker 1: my inner child, I think is is like seeing your

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Speaker 1: inner child down the hall being like, oh, you want

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Speaker 1: to read these books too? Cool? Oh yeah, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know in a lot of other fourteen year olds who

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Speaker 1: were reading the Upanishads, but they were really making me

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Speaker 1: makes sense of things. And it's funny because when I

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Speaker 1: think about it in terms of some of the other

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Speaker 1: things you said about my pattern about always feeling a

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Speaker 1: bit like an outsider, like I didn't understand this place,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh yeah, because because when I was fourteen,

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Speaker 1: I was reading those books but not talking to my

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Speaker 1: friends about it. That was my word, and then I

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Speaker 1: had this school world and yeah, a lot of things

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Speaker 1: are clicking right now. And I am curious, you know,

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Speaker 1: since we're talking about you know, Lisa as a young person,

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Speaker 1: which is obviously waking up my inner Sophia as a

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Speaker 1: as a young person. Now, I know you weren't raised

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Speaker 1: with it, but we will be discussing how it informs us.

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Speaker 1: What astrological sign was baby Lisa born under I was

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Speaker 1: born in June, so I was born under Gemini. Of

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Speaker 1: course the pattern doesn't really do sun sign astrology said,

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Speaker 1: it's not as relevant. My sun sign is a camp

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Speaker 1: are right, but your your venus is in Gemini, your

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Speaker 1: moon is inaquarious. Like these we'd say are much more

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Speaker 1: archetypally you. They make up. They're sort of the energy

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Speaker 1: you've been endowed with in this life to work with.

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Speaker 1: So when you think about it looking at your signs,

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Speaker 1: does analyzing your astrological pattern matchup with the kind of

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Speaker 1: kid that you were? Oh? Completely, I mean that's what

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Speaker 1: was sort of incredible when I got the first reading,

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Speaker 1: because I think I thought astrology was you know, cheesy

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Speaker 1: or new ag. It was kind of like when I

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Speaker 1: was talking about doing you're reading. I thought of it

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Speaker 1: just the sun sign way, which it didn't make sense

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Speaker 1: to me. So everybody born in the month of June

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Speaker 1: is having the exact same day and we're the exact

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Speaker 1: same person. It makes no sense. But I think that's

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Speaker 1: why a lot of people go that's not for me exactly.

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Speaker 1: But what I didn't know and I got the reading

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Speaker 1: is we didn't talk about that at all. We were

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Speaker 1: talking about the moment of my birth. So we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the moon that changes every you know, two and

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Speaker 1: a half days end in every two hours, very specific

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Speaker 1: to me. And then it was really just a psychological

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Speaker 1: breakdown of who I was and made sense of all

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Speaker 1: my neuroses and securities, fears, strengths, you know, aptitudes, the

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Speaker 1: things I was going through, my my relationship, the disaster relationship,

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Speaker 1: like you know, all of it. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: it was just this mirror and I was like, wow, okay,

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Speaker 1: what on earth is you know? And the mystery sort

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Speaker 1: of I was like, well, and then my mind was

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Speaker 1: like I must figure this out. And the obsession began.

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Speaker 1: And where did it come from for you? Where where

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Speaker 1: was your first touch point to that? Very specific? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll call it science because if we're analyzing positions of

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Speaker 1: you know, the moon and planets, NASA does that. So

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Speaker 1: the idea that there's something you know, somehow unscientific about

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Speaker 1: this is actually quite ironic and comical. And so as

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Speaker 1: I've learned more about it, I'm more and more fascinated

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Speaker 1: by it. Where where did you first intersect with true astrology?

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Speaker 1: Not the your zodiac sign is nonsense. Well, I you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a very different life and different path before

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Speaker 1: this one I was on. I had a whole other

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Speaker 1: business and was running this business, and it was at

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Speaker 1: a time in my life when my life was sort

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Speaker 1: of I need to come up with a more graceful

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Speaker 1: way of talking about it, but I'm mostly just like

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Speaker 1: it was just falling apart. Like in my sort of

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Speaker 1: personality or ego, whatever you call it, however I define myself,

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Speaker 1: what I saw my life as, the people in my life,

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Speaker 1: the things I was going to do, all of it

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Speaker 1: just was gone very quickly. And the illusion of what

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Speaker 1: I believed in so thoroughly and was so sure of

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Speaker 1: was completely shattered. And I was like, oh, I know nothing, okay,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of the most incredible moment of my

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Speaker 1: life because there's incredible liberation when you spend your life

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Speaker 1: trying to fix everything, please everybody, work your ass off,

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Speaker 1: and then you realize in a certain way you failed

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Speaker 1: at doing that. And then you're like, let a relief

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Speaker 1: to just dive into the failure and and or what

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Speaker 1: I would have defined as failure and just be me

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Speaker 1: and be real about that. And I was sort of

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Speaker 1: in a very open, vulnerable sort of place and realizing

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Speaker 1: my mind did not know at all and I was

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Speaker 1: not going to be able to figure it all out

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Speaker 1: with my head. And just I was with a friend

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Speaker 1: and she happened to be talking about astrology. I was like,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll do one of those, maybe I'll have the

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Speaker 1: answer I don't know, And I did. I had a reading,

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Speaker 1: and like I said, it was just how the fund

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Speaker 1: did you know about me? Like what you know? And

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Speaker 1: of course in my mind was like I have to

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Speaker 1: figure it out. I figured out I have to nail

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Speaker 1: it down and understand it. And but that that actually

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Speaker 1: was the start of what I'd say, a new chapter

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Speaker 1: in my life and an openness to not being as

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Speaker 1: in control and an openness to spirit and the mystery

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Speaker 1: that is life and being in that flow instead of

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Speaker 1: trying to control the flow, and there it began. It's

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Speaker 1: so wild to think about the fact that you were

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Speaker 1: one of the earliest people doing things in the digital space.

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Speaker 1: I mean, your your first YouTube videos from two thousand six.

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Speaker 1: What what made you decide to to start a channel?

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Speaker 1: I mean you were you were really one of the

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Speaker 1: original online creators long time ago. Yeah, that was one

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Speaker 1: YouTube was I mean it was really really early days.

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Speaker 1: There was like tiny, tiny community mostly just people making

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Speaker 1: videos in the room and it was really exciting seeing

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Speaker 1: the site because you're like, what is this and their

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Speaker 1: comedy and we're talking to each and I um was

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Speaker 1: edding at the time and doing a little bit of

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Speaker 1: Brothers and actor. I was doing a little bit act

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this is incredible, you know,

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Speaker 1: and this is going to be the future of everything,

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Speaker 1: and it seems so sort of obvious in a super

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Speaker 1: certain way. And and made the video and you know,

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Speaker 1: the first video of channel it's called Lisa Nova, and

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Speaker 1: it was you know, just sort of took off, but

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Speaker 1: it was at a time before it was you know, monetized.

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Speaker 1: You kind of had to like make the videos and

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Speaker 1: had these people watching, but there's no money. It was

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Speaker 1: a very interesting thing because this tiny niche who had

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Speaker 1: all these people that really cared about this, these silly

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Speaker 1: videos you're making, but the rest of the world had

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Speaker 1: definituitely no idea what you're talking about, and it was

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Speaker 1: a lot of like, why are you doing that? I

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Speaker 1: don't understand, you know, And then did that for many years,

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Speaker 1: for three years, and that was sort of that experience

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Speaker 1: sort of help inspire co founding Maker Studios, which was,

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Speaker 1: you know, studio for YouTube content creators. And again it

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Speaker 1: was this group of content creators or talent whatever you

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Speaker 1: call it, that were there was a sort of a

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Speaker 1: hole and that nobody was sort of taking care of

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Speaker 1: those that kind of talents. Were like, Okay, we'll help

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Speaker 1: make videos for them, will have a studio, mono, will manage,

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Speaker 1: we'll help with advertising, all those kinds of things. And

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Speaker 1: so I wound up being on the business end and

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Speaker 1: moved away from the creating content. And that was a

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Speaker 1: whole creative experience learning about running a business. When did

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Speaker 1: you guys start Makers? That was two thousand nine to

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Speaker 1: three years my channel, and then at the first couple

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Speaker 1: of years I was doing a lot of the channel

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Speaker 1: because it was I was the one with the credit

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Speaker 1: and so I was just going into a tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of debt and had a bunch of leases and things

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Speaker 1: in my name. It was just I just went all

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Speaker 1: in on this thing. And so any time I was

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Speaker 1: making money or do anything, he was going right back

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Speaker 1: into the business. And then a couple of years and

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Speaker 1: I wound up just being on the business end, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I was. But you were one of the first

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Speaker 1: people who got to monetize their YouTube channel, right yeah Google.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I forgot how many of the weal

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Speaker 1: of us? But yeah, that was Google. It bought YouTube

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Speaker 1: and and then you know, the thought was, okay, now

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have enough to really live off of. And

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Speaker 1: it didn't matter how many millions of Yews you got

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Speaker 1: the CPMs, you know, the clicks per thousand were still

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Speaker 1: pretty low. So again, the idea of Maker was, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if we joined forces and we worked together, we can

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Speaker 1: help each other. So what is the what is the

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Speaker 1: ethos of Makers Studios? I mean that was just about

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Speaker 1: sort of empowering the content creator. It was a very

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Speaker 1: specific time where you could just be somebody in your home.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is we take this for granted now.

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Speaker 1: But then it was this idea of like, no, you

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Speaker 1: could just you don't have to be the richest person,

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Speaker 1: but you can make your living creating content and just

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Speaker 1: being you and and doing what excites you and sharing

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Speaker 1: your sort of niche life and message, and let's empower

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Speaker 1: you to do that. It was you know, this is

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Speaker 1: all overuse stuff now, but that it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of like we're democratizing, you know, entertainment and content. It

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Speaker 1: was sort of the changing of the guard and the

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Speaker 1: shifting of how content was made. So it was a

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Speaker 1: lot about that really just empowering the creator. I mean

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Speaker 1: that that wasn't era of such a major leap in

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Speaker 1: terms of access and in terms of even the amount

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Speaker 1: of information available. I think about you guys growing, you know,

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Speaker 1: co founding the studio and then growing this online media world.

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Speaker 1: And then the company got bought by the Walt Disney

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Speaker 1: I mean that's major, that's a major. Her statement and

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Speaker 1: deal was was that exciting? Was it exciting? And and

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Speaker 1: was there a a sense of goodbye? Like what how

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Speaker 1: how was that to be acquired by such a big Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah again, I mean it's so much in life is

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Speaker 1: timing and it was just it was incredible timing to

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Speaker 1: be on YouTube at that time, and you know, put

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Speaker 1: in those ten thousand hours and the timing of Maker

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Speaker 1: and then again the timing of Disney coming along, and

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Speaker 1: again it is Disney, so you take that very seriously

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Speaker 1: when Disney comes along, And yeah, it was it was

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Speaker 1: very exciting. I mean, there's so many things going on

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Speaker 1: at that time, and so many details we don't need

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Speaker 1: to get into, but yeah, I mean it's been eight years,

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Speaker 1: three years of my channel, five years of the company.

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Speaker 1: And also nobody was really focused on the YouTube content

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Speaker 1: creator at that time, and we had this moment of

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Speaker 1: coming in and being that for them, and I think

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Speaker 1: I saw that eventually kind of YouTube would wind up

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Speaker 1: being our competitor too, And this was great timing. We

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Speaker 1: were sort of at the apex of of where the

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Speaker 1: company was going to be, and it was sort of

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Speaker 1: a great opportunity to go there. And and it's not

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Speaker 1: really about me, you know, like it was about the

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Speaker 1: greater thing and the greater company and it's best for everybody.

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Speaker 1: So sure there is all your letting go of this thing,

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Speaker 1: but I don't have like, oh, it's it's all about me.

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Speaker 1: Or you know, possessive of that. It was like, well,

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Speaker 1: what is best for everybody? And this was the best

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Speaker 1: thing for everybody. And so many people who worked for

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Speaker 1: us were friends and family, and you know, it was

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Speaker 1: just making good on this thing that you you were

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Speaker 1: trying to tell everybody. You know, you're moving people out

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Speaker 1: to California and changing their lives and giving up their

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Speaker 1: jobs and going for it, and you wanted to make

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Speaker 1: good on it. And it was a great moment, an opportunity,

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Speaker 1: and it was happy to help be a part of

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Speaker 1: that happening. And I was, I was personally ready. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was burnt out on YouTube. I don't think I

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Speaker 1: went on YouTube for years after that was like I

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Speaker 1: never see a YouTube video. Good. So you guys got

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Speaker 1: acquired and then what So the year leading up to

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Speaker 1: that is kind of also when my life was spelling apart.

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Speaker 1: So I was going through a lot of transitional stuff.

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Speaker 1: Things were transitioning, life was changing in so many ways,

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Speaker 1: and I was changing and who I was was changing.

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Speaker 1: And I had now had this sort of astrology, reading

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Speaker 1: this new passion, and so I just dove deeper into

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Speaker 1: that passion and shortly after it just was like, this

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Speaker 1: was incredible, This helped navigate my life. I would love

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Speaker 1: to figure out a way to share this with the world,

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Speaker 1: and how do I mimic my experience in a way

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Speaker 1: that's scalable. And that's when I was like, I'll do that.

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Speaker 1: If we go back to your first reading, which has

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Speaker 1: obviously inspired your current work and company and the app

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Speaker 1: and everything. What what was it? What was it about

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Speaker 1: that that was so special to you? What took it

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Speaker 1: from oh that wu wo we thing that people do

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Speaker 1: that I don't believe into this is this is actually major?

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. Yeah, I mean I think it

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Speaker 1: was that being completely mirrored. You know, we talked about

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Speaker 1: you having said Saturn, I have heavy saturn to just

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Speaker 1: the way he spoke about a certain sense of deficiencies,

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Speaker 1: certain need to to work so hard, the heaviness of

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Speaker 1: you need to prove yourself again, certain aptitude, certain fears,

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Speaker 1: such specific things, you know, the things I dealt with

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Speaker 1: in my romantic relationship lives, like these patterns of behavior

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Speaker 1: and the course my life had taken. And I just

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Speaker 1: I don't even think I said anything. It was mostly

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Speaker 1: just being told the stuff and I got off just

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Speaker 1: sort of like what And again I'm very curious, you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to know everything. I've had a million jobs.

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Speaker 1: I want to learn if this was like wow, wow, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is like what just happened? And I wanted to

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Speaker 1: know more. And then I sort of dove in trying

431
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: to understand it. And again, what's beautiful about it is

432
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,239
Speaker 1: there's a mystery to this. You know what what I

433
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: shared with you or what is being shared with me,

434
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: we are saying the fact that my moon was in

435
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: Gemini at the time of my birth, that there's meaning

436
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: behind that, there's mystery. So of course my mind was

437
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: always trying to lock it down, like how is this

438
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: perfectly logical and understand? And then there was this giving

439
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: over to the mystery of life and diving, and that

440
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: opened me up to more of this spiritual side of

441
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: my life because there is something quite a lot like faith,

442
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: where there's a lot about the stories you're hearing that

443
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: makes sense and then you have to trust. And I

444
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: will say, you know, going through the pre call to

445
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 1: this episode with you having you kind of point out

446
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 1: all of the very specific things, as you said about

447
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: every part of my chart that gave me goose bumps

448
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: over and over again because they're very particular. And and

449
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: I didn't know before that there are certain parts of

450
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: the planetary positioning that change every two hours. You know

451
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: that that it's that accurate. And what's funny about this?

452
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: And I didn't tell you this when we were not

453
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: recording it for a long time. I had my birthtime

454
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: wrong and charts weren't accurate for me. I was like, no,

455
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: that's never happened. Now, that's not how I feel. No,

456
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: And and my mom corrected me on the time, and

457
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: literally everything got very specific to the point that it's

458
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: almost eerie. I've had people say that to me. That's

459
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 1: what I love about I mean, I've had it where

460
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: I've done charts like that and it's not making sense.

461
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: And I was like, bizarre. I was like, maybe your

462
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: times aren't sure enough, the time will be wrong. Wow.

463
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: I was like, there we go. So we're talking about

464
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: this wild you know, science and mystery combined together in

465
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: this arena of practice. And you spent years developing the

466
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: app for the pattern, which is your current work for

467
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: for listeners who are unfamiliar with it, can you tell

468
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 1: us what it is? And then I want to ask

469
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: about how you created it? UM, I like to think

470
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: of it is a way to better understand yourself and

471
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: to connect with others in a deeper way. Um. This woman,

472
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: I shouldn't take credit for it. She wrote this article

473
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: about and she said it's sort of Myers Briggs meets

474
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: Burnet Brown. I love that description, but it's it's really

475
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: a way to better understand yourself and the patterns and

476
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: dynamics in your life. The algorithms methodology is all astrology based.

477
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: There is no astrology in the app because I wanted

478
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: people to just be able to get the wisdom have

479
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: the experience of feeling seen and understood. I wanted to

480
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: be the sort of safe place to feel seen and

481
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: understood because I think it's what we all want. It's

482
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: what I want, It's what I think everybody really wants

483
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: to feel like, Okay, I'm being seen, and we can't

484
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: always get that in our lives or from the people

485
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: in our lives. And that's what sort of beautiful about

486
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: this because it can be sort of a mirror for that.

487
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: And then there's a relaxing, a relaxing into who you are,

488
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: surrendering into who you are, because usually you know you are,

489
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: and that's what you're being defined by culture, family or friends,

490
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: and you're really off course. And perhaps I was in

491
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: my life too. And when I got this reading and

492
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: he told me everything I already know, you can be like,

493
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: all right, I can stop stop fighting against my my,

494
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: my nature and just let myself be mhm. I think

495
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: one of the things that it's really impactful for me

496
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: to consider when thinking about how something like this might

497
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: just provide a little lift or uh an answer to

498
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: a puzzling question that I can't quite answer by myself,

499
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: is really again to lean on the science. You know,

500
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: if if the position of the moon is strong enough

501
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: to move the ocean right, it's obviously strong enough to

502
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: affect my body, which is sev water. There you go.

503
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: And to understand gravity, gravitational pull, planetary movement helps us

504
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: really lean into aliance. And when I think about, as

505
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: I said, just being affected by that, to be able

506
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 1: to dip into something like the pattern which says this

507
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: is a moment of heaviness, these things are coming up

508
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: in the world, it's just a nice reminder to go, Ah,

509
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: that might be why I feel a little intense this week,

510
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: And maybe instead of beating myself up about why I'm

511
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: not sleeping better, or or why I can't seem to

512
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: get it all done today, I can go, oh yeah,

513
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: this is a really intense planetary time. I would imagine

514
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: everyone on Earth is feeling this right, just like the seasons.

515
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's winter, it's a season. There are seasons

516
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: with the planets, and things are moving and and like

517
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: I said to you when we did your chart, it's

518
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: about the moment of your birth as above so below

519
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: so where the planets are in the sky at the

520
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: time of your birth, you or any individual that is

521
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: a creative expression of that person that single moment in time,

522
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: you know. And it's a blueprint for the conscious aware path,

523
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: you know, because we'll go off of it. But it's

524
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: a way to sort of be like, Okay, here's here's

525
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: a way to be sort of more in touch. A

526
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: lot of times we beat ourselves up for feeling certain

527
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: things or feeling like we're not enough, and this is

528
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: also a way to say, okay, well, I haven't done

529
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: anything wrong. Maybe there's intention to why things are the

530
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: way they are. And I always say too while we're

531
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: saying you're maybe faded to deal with these kinds of

532
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: energies I don't believe in predictive astrology. It is always

533
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: your choice how you choose to deal with anything, and

534
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: that's your destiny. And everybody has free will, so somebody

535
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: with your exact same chart will have a very different

536
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: life experience. Yeah. So I'm curious because we're talking about

537
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: this specific, specific, specific things that exists for each of us. Yeah,

538
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: this is an app that anyone can sign up to use,

539
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: So how does it work? What are the years of

540
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: development that went into this consistent? Yeah? Uh well yeah,

541
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm gonna make this app. This

542
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: will be super easy, no problem, and you know, and

543
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: that wasn't. It wasn't. That was like seven years ago,

544
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: because I thought I could just hire somebody to do

545
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: it and write it, and that was impossible because I

546
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: was trying to mimic my experience. So I wound up

547
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: um sort of chasing this astrologer around the world, like

548
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: wherever he was going on, show up and like can

549
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: I get you for like a week at a time,

550
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: you sit with me. He was, you know, doing his

551
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: stuff and living his life. So I'd get him and

552
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: I just started extracting the information and trying to understand it.

553
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: So I was going to kind of take somebody as

554
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: an oral tradition and figure out how to put it

555
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: in a system that could be an algorithm. And that

556
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: was the whole process. So you know, it's it's getting in,

557
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: understanding it, creating the algorithms, working with the CODA, was

558
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: going to understand those things, and then starting to write

559
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: the content, and that that took the longest. That took

560
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: years and years and years, because I wanted it to

561
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: be really deep, as we said, go deeper. I wanted

562
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: there to be a lot because I knew as a user,

563
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't find anything that went deep enough for me

564
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: and synthesized all of it, made sense of the entire

565
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: holistic picture of who you were. And so I became

566
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, channeled my saturn or by obsessive energies into this.

567
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: And it was also at a time when I was

568
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: going through stuff, so it was kind of a catharsis

569
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: for me in a way to process and understand my

570
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: own journey. So I think they were in parallel what

571
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: was happening and sort of what fed the building of this,

572
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: and so that that was just years of writing and

573
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: my father was sick at the time, so I wound

574
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: up moving home and I stayed there for years, and

575
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: you know, with my couple of years with my mom

576
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: as well, after my father passed, and just I'd write,

577
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: you know all day and eat dinner with mom and

578
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: do it again the next day, and um, just do

579
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: it and do it and do it until it felt

580
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: like it was there was enough, and it just kept

581
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: building on the system and and then um, we were

582
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: in a beta and that started to get shared and

583
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: you're on the original. Wow, because then just Penny was like, oh,

584
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: I get you on this thing. Penny thought, Yeah, she

585
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: she's great, she's wonderful, she's one of the really, she's

586
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: the second time she's come up in podcasts. Um. And

587
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: but one day it really, it really just took off

588
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: because there was I had given it to people, you know,

589
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,719
Speaker 1: and maybe there was people sharing it. But then one

590
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: day it was like I woke up and there's like

591
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,239
Speaker 1: thirty thousand people there and I was like what, And

592
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: I just like what is happening? I'm looking around, like what.

593
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: And then from that dawn, it's just been the sort

594
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: of word of mouth thing, you know, friends sharing it

595
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: with friends, and I think word of mouth is such

596
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: a compliment too, for any kind of service that grows

597
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: like this. I mean, you've got fifteen over fifteen million

598
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: profiles on on the pattern. Now, the fact that it's

599
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: worked or helped or given comfort or ideas sparked thoughts

600
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: for so many people that they tell all of their

601
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: friends must feel pretty amazing. Yeah, it's it's incredible. It's

602
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: like the mystery of the whole thing, you know how

603
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: that even happens. I was like, it just did you know?

604
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: It was like that if you build it, they will come,

605
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: I say. I was like, you know, because you don't know.

606
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: You're sitting in your room writing this stuff like a

607
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: crazy person, you know, no life, and you don't know

608
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: that anybody is going to think this is interesting. So

609
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: it was it was wonderful to know that it was

610
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: of service because you know, you're writing so in depth,

611
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: and I think there was things like is anybody gonna

612
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: really want to read that much? Because I would, but

613
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: would anybody else? And so that was just wonderful to

614
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: know people were enjoying it and it it was in

615
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: service to something. Yeah, and that the seven years that

616
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: you and these experts spent figuring out how to do

617
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: this have been so generative for so many people. I

618
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 1: also have to point out that it's very cool for

619
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: us to be talking about this, not only because of

620
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: the subject matter, but in public, because up until this

621
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: past summer and the interview that you did with Vanity Fair,

622
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: people didn't know that you were the founder. They didn't

623
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: know where this came for. And I'm curious what was

624
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: behind that decision or desire to keep yourself private for

625
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: so long. It was so amazing how it was just

626
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 1: growing on its own, and I was like, this is great.

627
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Why do I need to get involved? You know, like

628
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: it's just great, it's happening. Um, that's the whole thing,

629
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: you know, to put yourself out in the world like this,

630
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: I think I do. It's not something I like dream

631
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: of or like love, you know, but I think there

632
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: was probably certain fear around doing that and and just

633
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: loving that it had its own life and not wanting

634
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: to intrude on that. And because then you're connected to something,

635
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: there can be a lot of projection. That's a lot

636
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: of energy put at you, especially with something that is

637
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: so emotional for people and so powerful for them, all

638
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: of a sudden, that can get projected on you. So

639
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: there's all those kinds of thoughts. But when you're trying

640
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: to grow a business, at some point you have to communicate,

641
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: You have to be tr it's fair, and you have

642
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: to talk to people. So I knew it was probably

643
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: gonna have to come and and it didn't. It's actually

644
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: been wonder everybody's so nice and wonderful and it's not

645
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: as um, it's not as terrible as I thought. Everybody's

646
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: really wonderful and it's great. But yeah, if I, like

647
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 1: I could have, I probably never would have been. It

648
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: would have been cool. Wouldn't have been if it was

649
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: just a mystery and what is that? Why did this?

650
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: But again I I think that it's the fact that

651
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: it's ground to tens of millions of people and you

652
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: didn't have to go out and hustle for coverage. It

653
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: really did this because of what it offers. And I

654
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: think it's cool that upon its success you've been able

655
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: to also take ownership and explain it to people and

656
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: invite people in. I really wonder if, especially after this year,

657
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: you know, so many people are feeling burned out. The

658
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: reports of burnout are going through the roof, whether it's

659
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: from the pandemic, or this, you know, incredibly tense culmination

660
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: of five years of insane politics. You know, work stresses,

661
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: social movements. I wonder do you see astrology Do you

662
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: see some of these little uh hey, pay attention to

663
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: this sort of light bulbs that the app can provide.

664
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: Do you see that as a tool to help with burnout? Definitely?

665
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: And I think, I mean that's just been with all

666
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: the intensity and tension in the world and all the things,

667
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: there's also been this growing awareness that people are having

668
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: or desire for things like you know, meditation and understanding

669
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: themselves better and um, going sort of deeper into their

670
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: own psyche and feelings and emotions, and so it is

671
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: interesting and astrology certainly is now having this moment. You know,

672
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: when I started seven years ago, it wasn't quite there,

673
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: and you know, and that was also part of why

674
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: we didn't put astrology in the app, you know, just

675
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: to make sure there was no barrier to entry so

676
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: people would use it without being turned off by it.

677
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: But now I think people are looking for tools. It's

678
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: a part of life. And I feel like all the

679
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: young people who are way more conscious coming to this world,

680
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: they're like, I can't believe, Yeah, I mean, I just

681
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: people are twenty. When I was twenty, I was so

682
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: far away from the consciousness I see of a lot

683
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: of young people and it just seems like part of

684
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: their nature to seek and search and understand. And I think,

685
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: especially this year, what we've gone through collectively, I think

686
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: it's taken everybody deeper and everybody wants something that's more

687
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: authentic and real and all these tools, there's so many,

688
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: and the Pattern is, you know, just just one of them.

689
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: I um a way to go in and explore and

690
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: and feel like it can't help with things like burnout,

691
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: our anxiety, or anything that that you're going through. I'm

692
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: also curious about connection, because you're talking about giving people

693
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: the opportunity to connect to idea, is or truth outside

694
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: of themselves. But the Pattern has added a new feature

695
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: that's actually called connect and it helps connect users on

696
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: the platform with potential romantic matches, and I'm I'm really

697
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: excited about that. I actually don't even think he knows this,

698
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: But just to make sure I wasn't completely losing my

699
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: mind with how great um my relationship with my fiance

700
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: felt like, very quickly, I plugged his information into the

701
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: Pattern and I was like, Oh wow, this actually has

702
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: really really cool stuff to say. All right, that's that's

703
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: a nice little nod. Um. But I realized actually prepping

704
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: for our call today that I should have him, you know,

705
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: properly sign up so we get little notifications about each

706
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: other stuff. Um. But I'm wondering, you know, I've I've

707
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: never been on a dating app, like I've never I've

708
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: never been on Rya or Tinder any of those things,

709
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know what they offer, but I imagine

710
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: Connect is pretty different from other partnership apps, like you know,

711
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 1: even a website like an e harmony or a bumble Um.

712
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 1: How how is this different? Yeah? The big differentiator is, well,

713
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: it's also based on you know, the pattern is about

714
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: going deeper in general, right, and being more authentic and

715
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: being comfortable with all the parts of who you are.

716
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: And so Connect is the next octave of that, you know,

717
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: and taking it to the relationship realm. So one, when

718
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: you go on it is you know, typical of how

719
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: you might be on other dating apps, and you're looking

720
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: at profiles, um, and you're looking at people, and when

721
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: you see something that looks interesting before you can connect

722
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: with that person, you need to run what's called the bond,

723
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: and so you're getting a sense of your relationship right away,

724
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: whether you have something extraordinary or challenging or your soul mates,

725
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: and there's content with it. So it's already telling you

726
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: this is a life changing kind of connection or this

727
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: is a karmic link. So then from that point you

728
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: can choose to connect with that person. And you're already

729
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: starting from this place nearly of having an opportunity to

730
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: go right into something that's that's real and deeper and

731
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: instead of just sort of the glossy fake like look

732
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: at me, yeah, instead of someone's five best photos, it's

733
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: like you're both very cerebral in pren days. I can

734
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: have to this person about that act exactly and yeah,

735
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: so just start from that place. That's that's just a

736
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: bit more real. That's so cool. So would you ever say,

737
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: because I know people will ask, you know, what are

738
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: the most compatible signs? I don't feel like we do

739
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: that right no, because um, I don't do sunshine astrology.

740
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: So it's going to be based on you know, our algorithms.

741
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: I think that's what's been so great and as what

742
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: people really feel good about the app is that they

743
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: they sort of speak for themselves in a certain way,

744
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: and and I think, uh, you know, we worked really

745
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: hard on creating some pretty robust algorithms that match you

746
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: in these very specific, in detailed ways. So we look

747
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: at Moon and Venus and Mars and Ascendant and um,

748
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: are you already hearing success stories from users? Yeah, it's

749
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: so funny. I just before this, they just sent me

750
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: on in slack from this this guy who found his

751
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: soul mate and was just like, he wrote the most

752
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: amazing thing. And I was because we're just in beta,

753
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 1: but it was going so well, and there's already hundred

754
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 1: people and ten millions wipes. Actually there's more, I think

755
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: like a hundred ten millions swipes, and you know, it's

756
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: just a beta, but we're getting all this incredible feedback

757
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: and working everything out and then yeah, it's pretty it's

758
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: pretty exciting. And yeah, and getting feedback like that that

759
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: somebody you know, found their soul mate and they're just

760
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: and there were soul mates in the app. They actual

761
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: their bond was a solmate level and you were like,

762
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: yeah that, So are there other features based on the

763
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: ability that you guys have? Are there other features you're

764
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: working on? Adding in the future that will continue to

765
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: kind of create new avenues in the pattern. Yeah, I always,

766
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean, the pattern is the core. We're not like

767
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: turning into a dating app that is a feature within it,

768
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: sort of like the you know, the door you can

769
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: open or you can ignore it if you want. So

770
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: we're always going to be improving your experience with the

771
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: pattern and creating more content, and they'll be also different

772
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: kinds of relationship content that you can read, you know, work, boss, coworker, family, parent, child,

773
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: and I think also you know, content that supports your pattern,

774
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, things that can support whatever you're going through,

775
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: whether it's anxiety or or depression or you know, and

776
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: also making sure because we have so many people that

777
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: constantly ask can you put it in our language? So

778
00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: localizing and other languages and very so yeah, lots, it's

779
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 1: like it's just seven years in, but we're just getting started.

780
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: So I love that. So you're obviously inspiring so many people,

781
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 1: you know with the app and with the content and

782
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: the ways that you're encouraging people to think about things.

783
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: Who do you go to for inspiration? I feel really lucky.

784
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: And then I have a few very dear, dear friends

785
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: where I feel seen and her. I think being seen

786
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: and understood as a very rare thing in life. And

787
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 1: I feel very lucky because I have some people in

788
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: my life who I talked to every day that that's inspired.

789
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: Those are such rich relationships that I cherish so much.

790
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: And and I have other people that I work with

791
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: in different ways um that inspire me, you know, outside

792
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: of just astrology, but other kinds of spiritual work and

793
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: different people I connect with that are incredible. So yeah,

794
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: I have to keep my own energy levels up and groundedness,

795
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: and I definitely do that through the connections in my life.

796
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: I love that when you think about this moment, you

797
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: have achieved so much in multiple fields, multiple business verticals,

798
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: if you will. When you look back at the landscape

799
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: of your career, are there are there a little firework moments,

800
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: the things you're kind of most proud of so far.

801
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: I never think about that, chee. It's so funny when

802
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: you're in things and you're doing them or you're building them,

803
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: or doesn't seem like that's what's happening. You're just in

804
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: the flow of your life. You're just making this like

805
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: you know, making the pattern. It's not guarantee it's going

806
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: to be something you're just moving and creating and living

807
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: and doing. But I think the things I'm most proud

808
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: of are probably things nobody will ever know about. You know,

809
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: these are the small moments in life. It's the things

810
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: that nourish you. Whether it's how you connect with somebody,

811
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: treat somebody, or when you're authentic to yourself and you're

812
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: in your integrity and those smaller moments, really, I think

813
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: are the things that most proud of. I don't even

814
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: know why the question came to me, but in in

815
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: you know, a moment of self reflection, I thought about,

816
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,959
Speaker 1: you know, what are the questions I want to ask

817
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: myself regularly? What are the what are the ways to

818
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: check in with self when it's time to do that

819
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: at the end of every week or at the end

820
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 1: of the year, when you're thinking about the new year.

821
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: And for the last couple of years, I've I've regularly

822
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: asked myself, are you proud of the person that you

823
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,760
Speaker 1: are when no one is watching? And I am even

824
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: more proud of the person I am when no one

825
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: is watching than when there's eyes on me, definitely, because

826
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: I know how much work I do especially for others

827
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: that no one, no one publicly knows about what happens

828
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: in pub look is a fraction of what it takes.

829
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I I'm not exactly sure why

830
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: the way that you answer that question brought that to mind,

831
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: but it feels kind of similar that you're saying that

832
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: some of your proudest moments don't have to do with

833
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: the things that might earn a public accolade, but but

834
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 1: that we're really authentic and genuine and in integrity. Because

835
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: that's it. I mean, that's the thing. Because it doesn't

836
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: matter what you do outside or what you look like,

837
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: it's always going to come back how you feel inside yourself.

838
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: So it's gonna it's when those things are off or

839
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: you're not in that. You know, it doesn't matter what

840
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: you've accomplished out there. So I think, I, yeah, I

841
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: relate to what you're saying, and that is how it feels.

842
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: And sometimes those things even feel removed from you know. Yeah, yeah,

843
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 1: I know, I know I was coming. I know I

844
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: did this, But it's not about that, you know, day

845
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: to day, it's about you commune with people and how

846
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: you feel about yourself and in yourself. Yeah, and the

847
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: ways that you continue to show up. Obviously, mistakes and

848
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: failures in stride, we all have them. But I think

849
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: if you can take them in as as lessons and

850
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: continue better today than you were yesterday, I think that

851
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: that's really a wonderful goal. And I think that that's

852
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: why the space that you've built has been so helpful

853
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: to so many people, because understanding where you exist in

854
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: this larger landscape of the planet and other planets can

855
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: sometimes let just enough air out of that pressure balloon

856
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: to make it a little easier to get to tomorrow. Yeah,

857
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: because I mean, we touched on this earlier, but we

858
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time. You know, we're defined by

859
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: our environment and our culture and our family and parents

860
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and we get very lost in that,

861
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: and as you know, when we disconnect from our soul

862
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: or heart or whatever it is, and we just go

863
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: off trying to be something in somebody else's eyes or

864
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: prove something and something which I have I did for

865
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: the better part of my life, you know, And that's

866
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: where I think my life changed with this and being

867
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: on this path is because I couldn't live that way

868
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: anymore with myself. I had to be more aligned with

869
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 1: my integrity. And I think that's the hope of the

870
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: pattern too, is I can is there something that is

871
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: said or something that speaks to you that brings you

872
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 1: back to yourself? Uh, so that life is more enjoyable

873
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: and fulfilling and you feel more at peace with yourself.

874
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: So when you think about that, that kind of self

875
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: awareness and the propensity we all have for self improvement,

876
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: for better connection to ourselves and to each other. What

877
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: what are the hopes that you have for how people

878
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: can or will approach those concepts? Yeah, I mean that's

879
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: the design of the pattern. Was that in a way

880
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: of again, without having the astrology, if we just give

881
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: you this information, is there something that is going to

882
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 1: help you in some way to surrender more into yourself

883
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: and be more at peace with yourself and remind you

884
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: of what you know to be true? So you can

885
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: get away from the fakeness that we all go down

886
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: at some point because we are all pressured by the

887
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: world around us. And can that bring more peace and

888
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: hope and light to your life? And can you try

889
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: and connect with others on the app? Two? Because if

890
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: I go look at your profile, because that's how it

891
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: was for me, it was such It was so eye

892
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: opening to be able to look at people's charts and

893
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: see what they we're going through and who they were,

894
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: and it gave me such perspective because people go through

895
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: life thinking people hate them, they're judging them, when no,

896
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: you don't know their whole background, you don't know what

897
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 1: they're going through. You also don't know your pattern together,

898
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: there are dynamics you're going to create insecurity when you're

899
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: around that person has nothing to do with what they

900
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: think or feel. So perspective was a big part of this.

901
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: I wanted people to be able to understand where somebody

902
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: else was coming from, not take things personally, because then again,

903
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 1: life is just it's it's it's just a nicer experience

904
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: with a little bit of perspective, because well, I think

905
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: we can fall into feeling like victims of our lives

906
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: and very disempowered by our lives. And the hope here

907
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: really is to feel empowered through this information and understanding

908
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: other people as well. I mean, it all feels incredibly inspiring,

909
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: and I I wonder for people who are inspired by

910
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: you or or people who look up to you, is

911
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: there advice that you would give just general life advice.

912
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 1: I think fear is a is a big I think

913
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: we can all get caught in a lot of fear,

914
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: you know. I know I have certain times in life,

915
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: and I'd say go into that fear as much as possible,

916
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: whatever your most afraid of, so that it doesn't have

917
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: that power over you. And don't be so afraid of

918
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: what I And I know this is like cliche, you know,

919
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: it's it's not even about being afraid of failure. Don't

920
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: be afraid of being you, being the most you, the

921
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: most successful, the most full you. I think we can

922
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: be just as afraid of that, you know, And it's

923
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: almost easier to not even try. And so I think

924
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: dive into whatever is the scariest, dive into whatever your

925
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: fears are. Sometimes there's great relief in that. I talked

926
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: about that earlier. In the times I would say the

927
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: most amazing I ever felt were like moments after I

928
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: had failed or failed in what I thought was failure.

929
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: Because you spend so much time trying to avoid it,

930
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: your whole life is defined. You know, you're such a

931
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: victim of what you're so afraid of, and then you

932
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: go into it and you're like, oh, it wasn't at

933
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: all what I thought, and you can just move on totally. Fine,

934
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: it's not what I thought, so so just be bold

935
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: and go for it because you're not here forever and

936
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: none of so much of this crap as an illusion,

937
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: And the things you're afraid of right now, like ten

938
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: years from now, you'll be like, can you believe I

939
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: even cared about that? You know, none of it, None

940
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 1: of that. A lot of the things that were most

941
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: afraid of really matter in the end. And uh, and

942
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: nobody nobody is thinking about you as much as you

943
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 1: think they are, judging you as much as you think

944
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: they are. That's mostly just start crazy minds judging ourselves. Yeah,

945
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: everyone's too busy judging themselves to be judging you. Exactly

946
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: exactly the way that you speak about things, and it

947
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: feels to me like the way you encourage other people

948
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: to look inward and offer themselves permission to grow. It

949
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: really leans into the theme of the show, into progress

950
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: into learning. And I wonder for you, what would you

951
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: say today this year, this moment in your life is

952
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: your work in progress so much so. The first step

953
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: is being aware of some of your patterns and behavior,

954
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: whether it's you're not enough for proving yourself anxieties. So

955
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: I think these are things you have to contend with

956
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: always they get less loud, but certainly there's perfectionism. There's

957
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: there's still things I'll get hung up on, you know,

958
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: And I have to let myself be and be like

959
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: you're enough and it's okay. And that thing of not

960
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: being enough and that you're you're lovable. I mean I'm not.

961
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: It's not as extreme as it used to be, but

962
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 1: that you are enough, That I am enough and just

963
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: as I am flawless, mess and all, and I'm enough.

964
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 1: It's the thing day to day I have to let

965
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: go of and surrender all the time. H Surrender is tee.

966
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 1: That's a big one because you surrender one part, you

967
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: shatter one part of your ego and another one just

968
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,479
Speaker 1: grow oh this, you know, and you're like you gotta

969
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: shadow that one. I think it's a it's a constant

970
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: growth and strounding there. But no question, I'm not nearly

971
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: as hard on myself as they used to be. But

972
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 1: but there's still things and moments in places. One step

973
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: at a time, step at a time, how about you,

974
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: I think for me to really own what's working is hard.

975
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,479
Speaker 1: I feel like I haven't done anything in my life. Yeah,

976
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 1: I hear you, so figuring out how to own what

977
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: I have is Um, it's a big it's a big one.

978
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: It is funny or the older I get that that's

979
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: what's really the things that make me happy a very

980
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: small thing, you know, it's just a cup of coffee,

981
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: that hanging with a friend. I'm like, I don't even know.

982
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: I don't even want the big things that where. I'm

983
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: more like, how do I just get to like my

984
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: little farms somewhere? And for me it's it's, you know,

985
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: it's less about needing big things in and more about

986
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: trying to figure out why I'm so proud of everybody

987
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: else and I go at my own accomplishments or winds

988
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I guess, really that's just a signal

989
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: of a larger idea. I think my work in progress

990
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: is learning to love myself as well as I love others. Right,

991
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: And what we spoke about in your chart classic Saturn,

992
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,439
Speaker 1: which I have to it doesn't matter what you Yeah,

993
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: it's really that is the thing. It's it's a path

994
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: of self love because it doesn't matter how many boxes

995
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: you check or what you accomplish it. It will never

996
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: be enough because it's that's not the point. The point

997
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 1: is that you are enough. Yeah hoo, going deeper. Well,

998
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: thank you so much for today. I'm I'm excited to

999
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: get our listener feedback and find out who's using the app,

1000
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: who signs up for the app, and what they learned

1001
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: from it. It's it's a very special thing that you've built,

1002
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: So thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

1003
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: Very grateful. If you're amazing, this podcast is amazing, and

1004
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: thank you