WEBVTT - Whiteness Undefeated? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.640 Native lamp Pod is the production of iHeart Radio in 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:04.760 partnership with Recent Choice Media. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:07.600 Well Come, we come, We Come, We Come, We come. 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:11.400 Welcome Okay, welcome home, y'all. This is episode eighty two 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.720 of Native Lampod, where we give you our breakdown of 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.680 all things politics and culture. We are your hosts. I'm 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:23.160 Angela Raie. There's Tiffany Cross and Andrew Gillim. What's happening, everybody? 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.040 What's going on? What are we talking about today? 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:26.720 So much? 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:29.680 I don't know what that. 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:35.360 Not making a comment? It was like you heard I was. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:36.480 I was looking at the script. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:36.960 What are you saying? 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:37.559 I don't know. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.800 It was like you like we made it through? 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.319 Yeah, well we were like. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.760 He was waiting, like if people on the lease ready 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.839 to say something. We are talking about a lot of 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:52.760 talking about though. 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:55.680 Yes, we're talking about a lot of good stuff. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.360 And if you like what we're talking about, please be 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.200 sure to tell you people to tune in, share this 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.000 podcast with a friend because you don't want to miss this. 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:05.920 We have on today the Mario Solomon Simmons. Yeah, from firm, 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:11.080 the Mario Simon Simmons, who went to law school with you, Angela. 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:12.679 I believe. So you guys have known each other for 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:13.240 a long time. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.680 Yes, not exactly National Black Glaston's Association. 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.000 Forgive me, that's where you guys met, but back when 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.480 you were in law school. And he is a Tulsa 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.920 descendant himself of the Tulsa Mascer, but he's also the 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.400 attorney for the survivors of the Tulsa Masker. So yes, 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.440 there are survivors. Two survivors who are I think one 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:37.920 hundred eleven and one hundred and twelve. He'll tell us 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.080 when he gets on. So I'm really excited to talk 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:40.520 about that. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.520 I want to shout out because and I'll bring this 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:46.600 up when de Mario's on. But when the Mario was 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.040 in law school on then the boss of board, he 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.760 was our reparations chair at that time. Working with yeah, 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.880 working with Professor Charles Ogletree. Yeah, for sure, we're working 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.640 with Professor Charles Ogletree. This has been a life passion 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.960 of his and reparations on every side. Right, we know 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.160 that there's our reparations that our communities owe from mass 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.800 incarceration to things that cities municipalities did to us, redlining, 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.880 and of course mass there's just like the one in Tulsa, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:19.160 and then on that Andrew. We know these things, of course, enflament. 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.440 Yes, yeah, of course they do. They cost money, which 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.720 is why we want you to tune into our mini 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.440 pot on Friday, because we're gonna be having a conversation 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:34.399 about the implications of this disastrous quote unquote big beautiful 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.560 mess that Trump and the Republicans in Washington want to 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.760 push down our throats. We want to talk about who's impacted, 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:45.160 what are the stories we're not hearing on the news, 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:46.960 and why it ought to matter to all of us, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.640 whether we are working class, we're working poor, middle class, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.880 upper middle or if you're in the top one percent. 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.400 You're listening their implications to. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.240 Everybody, and that's just it. So one thing that you know, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.400 we all love is when we get to hear from 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.120 our community. Tiffy in those comments, child, I love us 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.800 for doing it. She gives us the comments update. But 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.440 we also love when y'all send in videos all over 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.360 the country, even doing the State of the People power 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.760 to it, and we have heard over and over again 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.160 how much y'all love the show. I almost thought I 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.600 was gonna lose my life in Jackson because Tip's flight 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:22.200 got canceled. The people were hot. Andrew. You ran out 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.600 of there and they were like, no, where is Andrew. 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.800 Listen, this one sister met me in the airport. She 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.040 gave me to the airport. She was gonna have to 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.359 fly out later, but she knew I was going at me. Yeah, 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:35.480 she left to go. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.680 So what I want to tell y'all one, from the 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.920 bottom of our hearts, thank you so much for loving 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.560 on us. And every time we say welcome home, you 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.680 guys welcome us home three hundred times over. We are 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.520 so so grateful. And because we're grateful, we're gonna make 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.000 sure that we do what Tiffany always tells us to do, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.400 and that is to get in these listener comments. So 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.480 let's start with the first one. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:03.600 Hey n check it out. So you talk about democracy, 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:09.960 and for one, the quote should be placed on the people, 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.200 the American people, who aren't fault for the situation that 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:20.720 we're in because between ninety million people did not even 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.760 take it upon themselves to go to the ballot. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:24.760 Box last year. 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.360 On top of that, you had another seventy five million 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.920 vote for an authoritarian So if you want to put 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.599 the blame on the media, you want to put the 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:38.400 blame on the legislature at Allso no, you've put the 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.839 blame on the people. The people get the the government 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:43.520 they deserve. 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.640 If you don't vote and you vote the wrong way. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:47.440 You get what you deserve. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.960 So you guys need to put more responsibility on the voters. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.800 And I know that Angela's doing her tour and try 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:56.760 to get people involved in all something. That's what you 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.159 have to do. But you got to be honest the 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:03.640 people of the hobble. There's too many people sitting around saying, oh, 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.920 this doesn't work. It works if you vote the write 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:11.680 people in office, it works. And whatever dream you guys 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.320 are concocting about some other form, it's come on, stop 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:20.720 being ridiculous. It's democracy. But it's democracy that people are 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:21.200 part of. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:32.360 Okay, friend, just start out. I appreciate you sitting in 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.320 the video. Did you say video the video? Friend, But 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.839 let me just say this. First of all, you had 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.560 you real comfortable. I am so glad you are welcome. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.840 All you were so comfortable you walked down the street 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.240 with Autumn Damn's horn hunting us so we could even 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:49.920 hear part of the question. But I did hear the 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.560 very stern rebuke, and I would invite you in to 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.960 the same process that we have gone down, which is 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.279 to listen. We have really taken this sea, and I 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.720 think all of us really really have in different ways. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.360 We're listening to different groups, having different kinds of conversations, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.839 but we are all I think listening now in ways 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:14.640 that we didn't before the election, with more curiosity, wonder 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.200 maybe bewilderment. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.520 Yeah, literally too right. 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:20.640 And so. 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:23.400 I just don't know. 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:29.440 That ninety million people decide to sit out something where 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.640 they feel empowered. I just don't know that that's true. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.360 I don't know that people who have taken on the approach, 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.440 even though this isn't necessarily mine all the time the 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.279 lesser of two evils, and they make a calculated decision. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:48.560 We talk a lot about on this podcast of us 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:53.440 having to regularly, us having to regularly tap into a 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.279 harm reduction strategy rather than like the abundant choice of 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.680 what we know will represent our best interests even when 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.480 we do the work of issuing demands or having an agenda. 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:08.400 And so I just would challenge us on like telling 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.360 people that this is what they deserve, you know, when 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.120 they never gotten what we really deserve, like we ain't 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.520 even ask to be here, you know, like this is 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.679 where we are now. We're making the best of things 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.480 and our people have been making. I shouldn't even say 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.040 the best thing. We're making the good of things or 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:26.160 the all right of things, just to get by. And 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.320 so I just I appreciate the perspective. It definitely is 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.040 not mine. But I'm gonna yield to my co host. Well, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:34.040 so I don't lecture back. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:39.560 I I hear him and I this ninety million figure. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:44.120 I wonder like where that comes from. Maybe ninety million 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.400 people didn't vote. You know that that's probably with you. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.040 That sounds about accurate. I can give you the exact figures, 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:54.600 but they're percentages. In twenty twenty four, in the presidential election, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:00.000 seventy three, just over seventy three percent of the voting 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.960 age population registered to vote. Just over sixty five percent 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.280 actually voted. So when we say ninety million, which could 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.800 be accurate, that's not too far off from where we 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.320 always are. So you have to be like, I know 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:17.120 that might sound like a stark number, but in twenty twenty, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:23.160 sixty seven percent of eligible voters cast ballots. That was 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.280 a sizeable number. Particularly given that it was COVID in 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.360 the twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, and twenty twenty two elections. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.240 These are midterm years. These were some of the biggest 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:39.559 election numbers. We saw about a third of registered voters 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:40.840 did not vote. 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.880 So that ninety million number wouldn't seem so start. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.800 We've had way more people set out elections. 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.280 In twenty sixteen, one hundred million people did not vote. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.839 This is a big year when you had no more 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.319 Obama on the ballot, but you had Hillary Clinton. And 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.840 let me just say, I'm getting this information from the 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:08.160 Census Census dot gov, and you know, I cross referenced 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.800 them with Pew and Brookings and just make sure that 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.920 the numbers align. So twenty sixteen, one hundred million people 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:21.800 did not vote. In twenty twelve, you had turnout declined 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.000 from one hundred and thirty one million voters in two 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.040 thousand and eight to one hundred and twenty six million 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.800 voters and twenty twelve, ninety three million people did not 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.120 vote in twenty twelve. Here's where it gets interesting. In 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.840 two thousand and eight, when you had Obama on the ballot, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.720 black voters, as we always do, consistently across the board 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.680 showed up in impressive numbers. We over indexed at the 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.560 ballot box. However, in two thousand and eight, you had 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:54.800 the fewest number of white voters. The white voters did 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.440 not participate. In twenty twenty four, you had the most 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:03.360 number of white vot voters participate. If every single black 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:08.520 person voted, we would not be able to outvote white America. 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.200 So I got a real challenge with suggesting that the 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.760 black people who voted, who didn't vote, who didn't even 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:22.160 have an option to vote, deserve what we've gotten. And 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.800 I want to just honor you, brother, for one taking 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.000 the time. You're clearly busy because you had to record it, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:28.800 like Angela said, walking down the streets. So just for 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.960 taking the time to tune into us and taking the 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.720 time to express your opinion because a lot of people 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:35.880 feel like you. I hear that from a lot of people, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:36.960 and so I honored that. 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:37.680 I really do. 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.320 But I think once we dig into the data and 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:46.080 just look at this landscape, it's hard to outdo white folks. 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.679 They remain undefeated. And I think that is and when 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.439 I say white folks, it is the idea of whiteness. 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:58.520 The idea of this ruling class, and so I you know, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.600 Angeline talked about us being in a space of curiosity, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.319 and the one thing that I can walk away with 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:06.720 even outside of what's happened here in America, I just 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.800 this week alone, lately, but definitely this week, I just 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.600 haven't been feeling so smart, you know, I haven't felt 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.840 so informed. I have felt like you could take all 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.840 that I know and fit it in a thimble. I 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.640 am just consumed by all the things I don't know. 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.800 And I'm not talking about like exploring why not, Like yeah, 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.000 I know about what happens here in America, Like I 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.920 know about that, but I mean just the exploration of 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:36.959 ideas and ideology and history and societies and you know, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.400 how this how we came to function in this world. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.720 And the more I read about things that happen, you know, 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.400 twenty five thousand years ago, it gives insight into where 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.320 things might be going. And I just I hope I 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.600 invite everybody, we as a collective, invite everybody into that 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.680 space of curiosity, because even that perspective of we got 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.440 to blame the people, I get that that's a righteous 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.320 anger because you are probably impacted and you're looking at 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.360 somebody else like you didn't vote, and because of you, 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.800 this is what happened. I just want to keep in 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.400 mind who the enemy of all this is, who invited this? 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.439 They're literally is and this is my challenge, and I'm 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.280 my co host. I looked at them every week to 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.720 give me some hope. You know, like we try, we 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.120 out here try and just like yo, But when I 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.920 look to what's happening, I don't know how we outdo whiteness, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.240 especially when a lot of y'all are saying f everybody 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.000 else and we just going in alone, just with the 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:33.640 black people. 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.120 Okay, I'm andrewing you right now because you are go 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.079 for it. Yes, I just and I don't even want 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.079 to cut you off long, just yes to this, because 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.760 I don't understand how we think our math mass Like 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.120 you don't have the luxury of sitting things out. You 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.120 don't have the luxury of saying, forget everybody else. It's 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:52.880 us on our own. Us on our own is a 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.160 strong twelve percent booth, maybe thirteen on a good day 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.040 if you count some of the migrants. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.560 So that's the thing that is maddening to me. 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:06.760 I will say tif that this curiosity point is so important. 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.960 We've been doing a lot of rebuken, a lot of 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.400 telling people what they ain't doing, and it doesn't make sense. 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.520 And I think the bigger point to me from the 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.320 earlier part of what you were saying is ninety million people. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.520 When is it one hundred and seventy or one hundred 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.240 and fifty million I voted this year? I mean, sorry, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:27.920 twenty twenty four. 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.240 This year, one hundred and seventy four million people were 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.000 one hundred seventy four. One hundred and fifty four million 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:34.080 people voted. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.000 One p fifty four. It says too many numbers. I 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:37.880 can't keep up, but one hundred and fifty four million 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:42.840 people voted. Ninety million is too high. Ninety four million 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.600 in twenty sixteen is too high. In a lot of 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.560 places where there's compulsory voting, the turnout is much higher. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.560 We don't have that. We have the choice and the 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.640 freedom to do so. It bothers me. I don't care 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.040 what election year it is. It bothers me that that 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.240 many people sit out, and I want to know what 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:03.160 has to change for them to get in the game. 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.640 Just on that piece, And I'm not saying that should 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.880 be the fullness of their political experience or their involvement. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.200 But that's the piece, right, I'm just like, what is 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.040 making you sit out for something that's so important? And 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.120 I think for a lot of people, and this is 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.480 part of what I've learned that's hard. It's a cold truth. 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.680 For a lot of people, this is nowhere near the 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.440 most important thing they're dealing with when they're making decisions 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.320 about whether or not they're going to sit with the 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.160 at the bedside of a family member that's dying, if 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.240 they're you know, making a decision about whether they're going 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.160 to go vote or bail their child out of jail, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.160 whether or not they can pay the light bill, if 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.600 they make if they take their car down to the 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.040 precinct to vote, will they be able to get to work? 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.960 So it's like, that's the thing that is the part 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.440 of democracy that ain't right. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.040 It's not on that. 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.000 I think it's a capitalism, a belief like do I 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.800 believe in this enough to participate? Andrew, I'm sure you 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:56.360 have your own thoughts, but I just want to kick 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:00.960 off with a question because we've never had that many people, 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:03.680 like even when after the Voting Rights Act passed, like 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.040 we were still numbers were still on par with two 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.840 thousand and eight, and we haven't disaggregated these numbers by race, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.040 but even in nineteen sixty five, like the amount of 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.440 people who participated in the election, and it wasn't every 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:19.760 single black person, you know, so we've never seen that 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.000 level of participation. I don't want to give this number 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:24.720 because I didn't have a chance to look into it. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.480 But in India, I think there was billions of people. 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.320 They have a greater voting participation. 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.440 They to the original democracy that So this is what 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:35.120 I'm saying. 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.680 The more I read and understand things, I just feel 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.960 so ignorant to so much. And I feel like in 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.360 two thousand and eight, I don't know how y'all feel, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.800 but from two thousand and eight to twenty sixteen, I 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:52.400 was living in a fantasy world. I was not anticipating 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:54.920 what was going to come. I was too busy enjoying 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.800 the moment, even though there were the hardships and challenges 0:15:57.840 --> 0:15:58.200 and all that. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.240 I just relished in this idea. 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.120 That this was going to We had broken the status 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:09.040 quo right that President Obama was now our floor and 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.560 we still had a ceiling to get to. I was 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.800 not anticipating that white folks were big mad, they were organizing, 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:17.600 they you know, they were playing the long game. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:18.600 So I don't know. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.360 I'm just curious your thoughts on all. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.800 Well, first on the way you ended, which is at 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.200 least how I hear you when you say white folks. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.120 And you may mean something and say something very differently, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.080 but I believe you to me, I hear it. And 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:37.400 I think the majority of white people in this country, 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:42.160 how they decide and how powerful the impact of that 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.600 decision is on all of the rest of us. And 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.480 put it more simply, white women, by majorities voted for 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:54.120 Donald Trump. White men by significant majorities voted for Donald Trump. Together, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.240 they constitute a ruling majority. And it sucks they have 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.080 to use the term ruling because they the ruling is 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:07.240 more associated with aristocracies. But when you have shifts like 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.400 we've seen in our democratic process to more of an autocracy, 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.760 a klepto class or people get power just to take 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.920 money from out of the system and oligarchy, and to 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.399 define that, it simply means the wealthiest people aren't just 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:26.840 the richest people in the world, but they're now the 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.200 richest people in the world who also get to decide 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.640 what government's actions are going to be and what government's 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.400 actions are not going to be. So it's a marriage 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.800 of not just the wealthiest people, but now the wealthiest 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.840 people also quite literally have all the power. There's power 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.119 by virtue of money, and now you've got power by 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.560 virtue of the lovers of government operating in your interests exclusively. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.760 And that's where we're moving toward. Trump even admits he 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.720 has the wealthiest your more billionaires in his cabinet than 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.119 have ever served the country. He thinks that is a 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.359 good thing. I think that's a horrible thing, because that 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.080 that that no way resembles to people who are being governed, 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:09.480 not real quickly to the to the gentleman's point, I 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.000 to appreciate it, because I have to say one of 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.160 my criticism of the Democratic Party, and I would even 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.520 now extend that I guess to us by way of 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:19.800 I think how we see a lot of issues and 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.600 how it gets up under us, and for good reason 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.480 is that I think we talk a lot about those 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.320 who are at the margins of our society, the poorest, 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.840 the ones who cannot, you know, get easy access to 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.520 healthcare and childcare and all of those things. Not a 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.119 lot of talk about what that squeeze is in the middle, 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.440 and not a lot of talk about what that squeeze 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.960 is for those who were in the upper middle. And 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:47.520 then we spend a lot of time at the top 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.240 end of that spectrum, on the wealthiest one one percent 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:53.239 as well. And I think what is true today as 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.560 it has really been in the for the last century 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.159 in this country, and that is is whether you are 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.280 in the working poor or whether you're in that middle, 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.520 A paycheck or two can easily throw you between from 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.159 one to the other. And I really mean, especially in 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.960 that middle group of folks who feel comfortable, live very comfortably. 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.280 But God knows, you don't take my income away for 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.960 two months, don't take my income away, you know, substantially 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.040 for the next three months. Most of us don't have 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.000 three months of total expenses saved up in a bank account. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:27.639 So this. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.560 Class status or as you will, is not so comfortable 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:35.040 for a lot of us. And that's why I think 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.879 it is important to pay attention to what's happening at 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.720 various ends of this spectrum and to relate that to 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.160 voting is I think we oftentimes talk about the folks 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.879 who have maybe economic barriers standing in their way from 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.040 accessing the ballot box. But I know people who I 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.760 went to college with, who have more advanced degrees than 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.680 I do, who live very comfortably in their lives, who 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.280 also make the decision not to participate in the process, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.959 and it is clear that they've prioritized something else above 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.920 the impact that their vote is going to have on 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.920 their lived condition. And I think the same is true 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:10.879 for those at the bottom end of the spectrum. And 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.159 I'm talking economically that when you've done a thing so 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.200 many times, or you've seen a thing done so many times, 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.760 yet your material conditions, when I say material, meaning the 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.680 things you can feel, touch, eat, never change. Well, y'all, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.200 that's the classic definition of insanity. To keep doing the 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.880 thing nothing changes, but you keep doing it anyway. Now, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.879 I want to argue with myself simply to say and 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.720 I'll quit here is to say I don't buy the 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.480 height that nothing changes. I just think change is a 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:50.320 very tenuous circumstance. For instance, four months ago, we all 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:55.280 thought we lived in a democracy. Courts mattered, court's decisions mattered. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:56.159 You didn't flout that. 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.200 We never thought that a president could just completely disregard 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.480 the monuments called the monument's cause where he is taking 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:09.240 a firth clock monuments, taking money taking place for his 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.120 I set up the moment I've. 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.600 Given the monument's clause that was my two weeks ago. 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.200 But the monuments, But but essentially the law that says 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:21.000 that the president policymakers cannot take gifts from folks, from 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.160