1 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:06,790 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday and Happy Halloween, my favorite day of the year. 2 00:00:06,990 --> 00:00:10,940 Speaker 1: Today's classic is on Helen Duncan, who has been nicknamed 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Scotland's Last Witch. In this episode, we mention a forthcoming 4 00:00:15,780 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: episode related to Harry Houdini. If you're curious, that was 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,730 Speaker 1: our episode on Rose Mackenberg that came out on October 17th, 2022. 6 00:00:25,070 --> 00:00:29,450 Speaker 1: We also mention a move to repeal the UK's Vagrancy Act. 7 00:00:29,710 --> 00:00:34,890 Speaker 1: That act was repealed on June 29th, 2026. This episode 8 00:00:34,950 --> 00:00:42,260 Speaker 1: originally came out on October 10th, 2022. Enjoy! Welcome to 9 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:45,780 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. 10 00:00:52,270 --> 00:00:55,610 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracey V. Wilson. 11 00:00:55,790 --> 00:00:58,610 Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Frey. Today we are going to talk 12 00:00:58,650 --> 00:01:03,970 Speaker 1: about Helen Duncan, who is sometimes described as Scotland's last 13 00:01:04,130 --> 00:01:09,550 Speaker 1: witch or as the last person imprisoned for witchcraft in Britain. 14 00:01:10,130 --> 00:01:12,590 Speaker 1: Sometimes people are like a little more precise than that 15 00:01:12,690 --> 00:01:15,950 Speaker 1: and call her the last person to be tried under 16 00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:20,530 Speaker 1: the UK's 1735 Witchcraft Act. None of that is quite 17 00:01:20,590 --> 00:01:25,830 Speaker 1: correct though. All of them are wrong in slightly different ways. We, 18 00:01:25,850 --> 00:01:28,410 Speaker 1: of course, will be talking about that. One of the 19 00:01:28,530 --> 00:01:32,730 Speaker 1: many wild things about this story, though, is that it 20 00:01:32,830 --> 00:01:38,510 Speaker 1: really did involve the Witchcraft Act of 1735. But it 21 00:01:38,590 --> 00:01:44,889 Speaker 1: happened in 1944. Who doesn't love a little archaic law 22 00:01:44,970 --> 00:01:50,570 Speaker 1: being applied to modern times? So, Helen Duncan was born, 23 00:01:50,730 --> 00:01:56,780 Speaker 1: Victoria Helen McFarlane, on November 25th, 1897, in Colander, Scotland, 24 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: which is roughly 35 miles, that's about 56 kilometers, north 25 00:02:00,820 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: of Glasgow. She was the fourth of eight children born 26 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,690 Speaker 1: to Archibald MacFarlane and Isabel Rattray. Archibald worked as a slater, 27 00:02:09,130 --> 00:02:12,769 Speaker 1: that is, a person who slates roofs. Helen had a 28 00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:15,830 Speaker 1: flair for the supernatural and the dramatic from a very 29 00:02:15,910 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: early age. She would make these portentous statements about other 30 00:02:20,180 --> 00:02:24,030 Speaker 1: people's impending doom. She said that she could see and 31 00:02:24,130 --> 00:02:29,089 Speaker 1: talk to spirits. She was also headstrong. People didn't think 32 00:02:29,110 --> 00:02:32,970 Speaker 1: of her as particularly feminine. All of this together earned 33 00:02:33,010 --> 00:02:36,500 Speaker 1: her the nickname Hellish Nell while she was still a child. 34 00:02:37,340 --> 00:02:40,799 Speaker 1: Sources are very contradictory about whether this was sort of 35 00:02:40,860 --> 00:02:44,460 Speaker 1: a lightly teasing and affectionate nickname or if it was 36 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,579 Speaker 1: a real condemnation of her behavior. In some accounts, there 37 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: were mediums on both sides of the family, and Helen's 38 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,610 Speaker 1: parents didn't try to discourage her as long as she 39 00:02:54,730 --> 00:02:58,730 Speaker 1: wasn't making predictions or talking about spirits around people who 40 00:02:58,790 --> 00:03:04,010 Speaker 1: might disapprove. But in other accounts, this behavior went against 41 00:03:04,030 --> 00:03:07,380 Speaker 1: the family's religious beliefs, and Helen's parents told her she 42 00:03:07,419 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: was going to be burned at the stake if she 43 00:03:09,700 --> 00:03:13,500 Speaker 1: kept it up. Helen left school when she was a teenager. 44 00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: She got a job serving meals at a hotel. She 45 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,990 Speaker 1: got pregnant in 1914 when she was about 16, and 46 00:03:20,410 --> 00:03:23,670 Speaker 1: at that point, her parents did kick her out. Helen 47 00:03:23,710 --> 00:03:26,389 Speaker 1: moved to the coastal city of Dundee, where she gave 48 00:03:26,450 --> 00:03:31,210 Speaker 1: birth to a daughter named Isabella in 1915. In Dundee, 49 00:03:31,470 --> 00:03:34,010 Speaker 1: Helen worked at a mill and as an auxiliary nurse 50 00:03:34,070 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: at the Dundee Royal Infirmary, and it was there that 51 00:03:37,140 --> 00:03:40,660 Speaker 1: she met Henry Edward Duncan. He was the brother of 52 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,180 Speaker 1: one of her co-workers, and he had been discharged from 53 00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:47,900 Speaker 1: the army after developing rheumatic fever. Helen said the first 54 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,420 Speaker 1: time they met, it had been in her dreams. They 55 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: got married on May 27, 1916, and moved to Edinburgh. 56 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,710 Speaker 1: Including Isabella, they had six children who survived to adulthood. 57 00:04:00,610 --> 00:04:04,290 Speaker 1: Helen and Henry were both chronically ill, and the family 58 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:08,050 Speaker 1: often really struggled financially. Henry tried to start his own 59 00:04:08,110 --> 00:04:12,250 Speaker 1: business as a cabinetmaker, which Helen helped him with. She 60 00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:15,290 Speaker 1: also took a job at a bleach factory to try 61 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: to help make ends meet. But then Henry had a 62 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: heart attack, which he survived, but afterward he wasn't able 63 00:04:21,980 --> 00:04:26,549 Speaker 1: to work anymore. Their already tight budget got even tighter, 64 00:04:26,750 --> 00:04:30,550 Speaker 1: and Helen started conducting seances in the evenings to try 65 00:04:30,570 --> 00:04:33,770 Speaker 1: to earn a little more money. Henry did what he 66 00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:37,349 Speaker 1: could to encourage her and to manage her career. When 67 00:04:37,370 --> 00:04:40,150 Speaker 1: we've talked about the spiritualist movement on the show before, 68 00:04:40,230 --> 00:04:43,070 Speaker 1: we have usually been talking about things that happened before. 69 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,060 Speaker 1: a little bit earlier than this, in the 19th or 70 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: very early 20th century. Previous episodes have covered 19th century 71 00:04:51,380 --> 00:04:55,570 Speaker 1: figures like the Sisters Fox and Madame Blavatsky, and spiritualism 72 00:04:55,610 --> 00:04:58,390 Speaker 1: has come up in episodes about other people who lived 73 00:04:58,410 --> 00:05:02,250 Speaker 1: during the same time, including mother Rebecca Cox Jackson and 74 00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:07,330 Speaker 1: Sojourner Truth. But spiritualism didn't end with the Victorian era. 75 00:05:07,529 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: It was still going strong after the devastation of World 76 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,830 Speaker 1: War I, and the 1918 flu pandemic, as people tried 77 00:05:13,870 --> 00:05:17,130 Speaker 1: to reconnect with loved ones who had died. So when 78 00:05:17,190 --> 00:05:21,090 Speaker 1: Duncan started offering her services as a medium in the 1920s, 79 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,299 Speaker 1: she had plenty of potential customers. In 1926, the Duncan 80 00:05:26,339 --> 00:05:30,250 Speaker 1: family moved from Edinburgh back to Dundee, and Helen started 81 00:05:30,310 --> 00:05:33,900 Speaker 1: to really focus on her work as a medium. She 82 00:05:33,940 --> 00:05:38,980 Speaker 1: specifically became a materialization medium. That's somebody whose spirit channeling 83 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:45,890 Speaker 1: process also included physical manifestations. In this case, producing ectoplasm 84 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:50,690 Speaker 1: from her body. If this ectoplasm also enabled a medium 85 00:05:50,770 --> 00:05:54,989 Speaker 1: to perform some kind of telekinesis, it was described as teleplasm, 86 00:05:55,050 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: and that comes up in accounts of Helen also. Duncan's 87 00:06:00,130 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: seances evolved over time, but they basically went like this. 88 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,820 Speaker 1: One corner of the room would be separated off from 89 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: the rest of the space with hanging curtains, and this 90 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,700 Speaker 1: served as the medium's cabinet. It could also be an 91 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:16,090 Speaker 1: actual cabinet or a closet or an alcove, just some 92 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:19,589 Speaker 1: space that could be separated by a curtain. She would 93 00:06:19,650 --> 00:06:22,290 Speaker 1: pass around a set of clothing for the people attending 94 00:06:22,330 --> 00:06:26,130 Speaker 1: the seance, or the sitters, to inspect. If the sitters 95 00:06:26,180 --> 00:06:29,940 Speaker 1: were satisfied that the clothes were not concealing anything or 96 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,830 Speaker 1: suspicious in some way, she would take some of the 97 00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:36,229 Speaker 1: women into another room where they could watch as she 98 00:06:36,350 --> 00:06:40,300 Speaker 1: changed into that set of clothes. These women could also 99 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,580 Speaker 1: inspect Duncan's hair and body to make sure that she 100 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: wasn't hiding something. Once all of that was done, Duncan 101 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: would take a seat in the cabinet. After the curtains 102 00:06:51,100 --> 00:06:53,540 Speaker 1: were closed in front of her and the room was 103 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,500 Speaker 1: lit with a dim red light, she would go into 104 00:06:56,540 --> 00:07:00,010 Speaker 1: a trance, and when the curtain opened again, Spirit guides 105 00:07:00,089 --> 00:07:04,210 Speaker 1: would manifest hovering close to her. She had two primary guides. 106 00:07:04,290 --> 00:07:07,310 Speaker 1: They were Albert and Peggy, and they would carry messages 107 00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:10,610 Speaker 1: from the other side for various sitters in the room. 108 00:07:11,310 --> 00:07:14,470 Speaker 1: Other spirits also manifested from time to time as well. 109 00:07:15,030 --> 00:07:20,530 Speaker 1: And sometimes Duncan would manifest large amounts of white, wispy ectoplasm. 110 00:07:21,630 --> 00:07:25,780 Speaker 1: Although Duncan had devoted supporters from the very beginning... It 111 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: did not take long for people to point out that 112 00:07:28,060 --> 00:07:32,620 Speaker 1: these manifestations were fake. They could look quite convincing under 113 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: that dim red light, especially to spiritualists who already believed 114 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,700 Speaker 1: in things like spirit manifestation. But in 1928, photographer Harvey 115 00:07:41,750 --> 00:07:45,510 Speaker 1: Metcalf took flash photos during a seance that Duncan conducted 116 00:07:45,590 --> 00:07:50,410 Speaker 1: in her home, apparently with her permission. And what he 117 00:07:50,450 --> 00:07:54,740 Speaker 1: captured looked almost laughably bad. Yeah, they did not hold 118 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:57,620 Speaker 1: up under a camera flash. Like in one of the photos, 119 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,150 Speaker 1: Duncan is in a chair, blindfolded, and she has a 120 00:08:01,250 --> 00:08:04,610 Speaker 1: length of what looks like rolled gauze leading from her 121 00:08:04,750 --> 00:08:08,930 Speaker 1: nose to a figure that's hovering over her shoulder. This 122 00:08:09,030 --> 00:08:13,190 Speaker 1: figure has very squared off shoulders, like maybe it's really 123 00:08:13,250 --> 00:08:16,900 Speaker 1: fabric draped over a coat hanger, and its face looks 124 00:08:17,020 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: a lot like the head of a Punch and Judy 125 00:08:19,260 --> 00:08:23,710 Speaker 1: puppet made of paper mache. In another, the figure is 126 00:08:23,790 --> 00:08:27,490 Speaker 1: similarly positioned with this gauzy rope leading out from under 127 00:08:27,530 --> 00:08:31,930 Speaker 1: Duncan's blindfold to drape around a boxy white form that 128 00:08:31,990 --> 00:08:37,990 Speaker 1: has a very doll-like head. Duncan's critics also included other spiritualists. 129 00:08:38,570 --> 00:08:42,589 Speaker 1: The London Spiritualist Alliance carried out an investigation that spanned 130 00:08:42,630 --> 00:08:48,510 Speaker 1: from October of 1930 to June of 1931. Duncan participated 131 00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:51,949 Speaker 1: in this investigation, traveling to London and being paid a 132 00:08:52,010 --> 00:08:55,750 Speaker 1: flat fee for the roughly 50 seances that she conducted 133 00:08:55,809 --> 00:09:00,689 Speaker 1: over those months. Investigators examined everything about them, her clothes, 134 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:04,980 Speaker 1: the ectoplasm, the information that she conveyed. They took x-rays 135 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: and at one point had her swallow methylene blue to 136 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,780 Speaker 1: try to figure out if she was swallowing and regurgitating 137 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:15,790 Speaker 1: the substance that she said was ectoplasm. This did not 138 00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:20,370 Speaker 1: work because she didn't produce any ectoplasm after swallowing the dye. 139 00:09:21,390 --> 00:09:25,010 Speaker 1: After the first few seances that Duncan conducted as part 140 00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: of this investigation, the London Spiritualist Alliance seems to have 141 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:32,340 Speaker 1: thought that she might actually be genuine, but the organization 142 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: ultimately concluded that she was a fraud. They did not 143 00:09:36,650 --> 00:09:40,300 Speaker 1: find definitive proof of where the ectoplasm came from, but 144 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: they thought most likely the scenario was that she was 145 00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: swallowing it before the seance and then regurgitating it. Different 146 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,420 Speaker 1: pieces of ectoplasm that they examined seemed to have been 147 00:09:50,450 --> 00:09:54,430 Speaker 1: made from different recipes, but they incorporated things like cheesecloth, 148 00:09:55,010 --> 00:09:59,830 Speaker 1: egg white, and toilet paper. I read this prior to 149 00:09:59,910 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: a recording, but somehow hearing that said aloud makes me 150 00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:07,630 Speaker 1: want to regurgitate things. It's just like the thought of 151 00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:10,810 Speaker 1: swallowing that and then bringing it back up is gross. 152 00:10:11,090 --> 00:10:15,699 Speaker 1: I'm not a fan. No. Psychic researcher Harry Price conducted 153 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,020 Speaker 1: his own investigation through his National Laboratory of Psychical Research 154 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,270 Speaker 1: in May of 1931, paying Duncan 50 pounds for a 155 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:28,630 Speaker 1: series of seances. He was skeptical from the start, saying 156 00:10:28,650 --> 00:10:31,650 Speaker 1: that he had heard of Duncan through the Spiritualist Press, but, quote, 157 00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:34,410 Speaker 1: as I do not believe one-tenth of what I read 158 00:10:34,450 --> 00:10:39,010 Speaker 1: in the Spiritualist Press, I was not particularly thrilled. Price 159 00:10:39,330 --> 00:10:43,500 Speaker 1: also concluded that Duncan was a fraud, with her teleplasm 160 00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: being made up of egg white mixed with various other ingredients. 161 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: He also took photos of Duncan during a seance, one 162 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,380 Speaker 1: of which showed her draped in what appeared to be cheesecloth. 163 00:10:55,100 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: Price also described an effort to x-ray Duncan's stomach during 164 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,900 Speaker 1: a seance. Cheesecloth would not appear on an x-ray, but 165 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,990 Speaker 1: if there was a safety pin or some other solid 166 00:11:07,130 --> 00:11:10,300 Speaker 1: object used, To keep all that together, that might show up. 167 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: But when it was time to do the x-rays, Duncan, 168 00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:18,420 Speaker 1: purportedly in a trance, became agitated and physically aggressive and 169 00:11:18,490 --> 00:11:23,310 Speaker 1: refused to cooperate. Don't swallow safety pins. Yeah, don't do 170 00:11:23,630 --> 00:11:27,170 Speaker 1: that for sure. Don't do it. Duncan consented to all 171 00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:29,530 Speaker 1: of these investigations and was paid for her work as 172 00:11:29,570 --> 00:11:32,939 Speaker 1: a medium during them. Although her husband made the arrangements 173 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: for Price's investigation... So it's not totally clear how much 174 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: agency she had in that instance. But beyond that, these 175 00:11:40,540 --> 00:11:45,420 Speaker 1: tests and examinations were degrading and invasive. Price's account repeatedly 176 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,739 Speaker 1: describes him and other men investigating, quote, every orifice of 177 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: her body, and his descriptions of her body and her 178 00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:57,450 Speaker 1: weight are really dehumanizing. Although the results of these investigations 179 00:11:57,530 --> 00:12:03,090 Speaker 1: were reported in newspapers, Duncan's most ardent supporters were not deterred. 180 00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:06,100 Speaker 1: But not too long after this, she ran into bigger 181 00:12:06,179 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: problems than just negative newspaper coverage, and we will get 182 00:12:09,540 --> 00:12:23,050 Speaker 1: into that after a sponsor break. In spite of multiple 183 00:12:23,170 --> 00:12:27,190 Speaker 1: investigations concluding that she was a fake, Helen Duncan still 184 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:31,550 Speaker 1: had a lot of support into the 1940s. and she 185 00:12:31,630 --> 00:12:35,300 Speaker 1: really was not unique in that regard. In the 19th 186 00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: and early 20th centuries, a lot of people and organizations 187 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,780 Speaker 1: were investigating mediums, and a lot of those investigations concluded 188 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,650 Speaker 1: that nothing supernatural was going on. Sometimes there was some 189 00:12:47,809 --> 00:12:51,990 Speaker 1: very clear evidence of fakery, like the sounds of knocking 190 00:12:52,070 --> 00:12:55,329 Speaker 1: ghosts being made by the medium hitting the underside of 191 00:12:55,370 --> 00:12:57,790 Speaker 1: the table with a stick, or in the case of 192 00:12:57,850 --> 00:13:03,330 Speaker 1: Helen Duncan, Photographs of these very puppet-like constructions and ectoplasm 193 00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:07,230 Speaker 1: that was obviously made of cheesecloth and toilet paper. But 194 00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:11,170 Speaker 1: this really did not dissuade a lot of spiritualists. They 195 00:13:11,270 --> 00:13:15,410 Speaker 1: naturally distrusted people and organizations who were devoting themselves to 196 00:13:15,460 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: debunking mediums. Even if a medium confessed that they'd been 197 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,940 Speaker 1: faking their work, people found explanations that let them keep believing. 198 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: Like the confession had been coerced and it wasn't true. 199 00:13:28,010 --> 00:13:30,410 Speaker 1: Or the person was a real medium but had faked 200 00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:34,130 Speaker 1: a seance that one time because they wanted so badly 201 00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: to help a sitter reconnect with a loved one on 202 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: the other side. In a high-profile example, Harry Houdini and 203 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,579 Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle bonded over their shared interest in spiritualism. 204 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,900 Speaker 1: But when Houdini became convinced that it was not real 205 00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: and started doing demonstrations of phony seance techniques on stage, 206 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,780 Speaker 1: Doyle continued to insist that he really was psychic, calling him, quote, 207 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,540 Speaker 1: the greatest physical medium of modern times. Houdini's going to 208 00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: appear again this October. There has been quite a bit 209 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,210 Speaker 1: of psychological research into this during recent decades to understand 210 00:14:10,260 --> 00:14:14,489 Speaker 1: why many people double down on incorrect beliefs, even when 211 00:14:14,590 --> 00:14:19,850 Speaker 1: presented with incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. Beyond that, the 212 00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:23,050 Speaker 1: field of photography had been evolving for more than a 213 00:14:23,170 --> 00:14:26,290 Speaker 1: century by the time Harvey Metcalf took those photos of 214 00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:30,650 Speaker 1: Helen Duncan. But mass-marketed cameras had only been around for 215 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: about 30 years. People didn't necessarily trust photographs. And as 216 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,940 Speaker 1: we talked about in our previous episode on William Mumler's 217 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,950 Speaker 1: spirit photography, people had already taken photos that were then 218 00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:49,590 Speaker 1: investigated for being deceptive. So, Even though there were these 219 00:14:49,770 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: photos of Duncan's seances, which are laughable to a modern viewer, 220 00:14:55,380 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: that didn't necessarily change people's minds. Duncan's first fraud conviction 221 00:15:02,140 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: also did not necessarily change people's minds. This happened after 222 00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: a seance she conducted in Edinburgh in 1933. A sitter 223 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: named SN Maul grabbed the manifestation of Peggy the Spirit 224 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: Guide and and found that she was made from a 225 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:21,990 Speaker 1: knitted undervest. Maul reported this to the police, and Duncan 226 00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:25,770 Speaker 1: was arrested, tried, convicted of fraud, and ordered to pay 227 00:15:25,810 --> 00:15:28,990 Speaker 1: a fine of £ 10 or serve a month in prison. 228 00:15:29,870 --> 00:15:34,300 Speaker 1: After this, Duncan kept doing seances, and despite that fraud conviction, 229 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,020 Speaker 1: she became increasingly popular. She traveled all over Great Britain, 230 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,580 Speaker 1: particularly favoring coastal towns. And as World War II began, 231 00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:46,910 Speaker 1: more and more people sought her help to try to 232 00:15:47,010 --> 00:15:50,610 Speaker 1: speak to their loved ones who had been killed. In 233 00:15:50,670 --> 00:15:55,490 Speaker 1: late May of 1941, Brigadier Roy C. Firebrace attended one 234 00:15:55,510 --> 00:16:00,310 Speaker 1: of Duncan's seances. Firebrace was an astrologer. After the war, 235 00:16:00,410 --> 00:16:03,500 Speaker 1: he would go on to help found the Astrological Association 236 00:16:03,540 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: of Great Britain. During this seance, one of Duncan's spirit 237 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,900 Speaker 1: guides said that a Royal Navy ship had just been sunk. 238 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,580 Speaker 1: Firebrace didn't know of any such thing happening, and when 239 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: he checked with other people in the Royal Navy after 240 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: the seance, they hadn't either. But the next day, he 241 00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:24,410 Speaker 1: learned that the battlecruiser HMS Hood had exploded after being 242 00:16:24,490 --> 00:16:27,410 Speaker 1: struck by the German battleship Bismarck at the Battle of 243 00:16:27,470 --> 00:16:30,730 Speaker 1: Denmark Strait, killing all but three of its crew of 244 00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:35,610 Speaker 1: more than 1,400. Something similar happened at another seance in 245 00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:40,250 Speaker 1: Portsmouth about six months later. Duncan relayed a message from 246 00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:43,770 Speaker 1: a sailor named Sid, whose mother was one of the sitters. 247 00:16:44,590 --> 00:16:49,860 Speaker 1: Sid had been aboard the HMS Barham, a Queen Elizabeth-class battleship, 248 00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: and Sid said the ship had been sunk. His mother, 249 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,950 Speaker 1: of course, was distraught, and she contacted the Admiralty about it. 250 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: Once again, the Barham really had been sunk. On November 25, 1941, 251 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,939 Speaker 1: the ship had been struck by torpedoes from a German 252 00:17:08,090 --> 00:17:11,590 Speaker 1: U-boat off the coast of Egypt. The ship had been 253 00:17:11,650 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: hit by three of the four torpedoes fired at it, 254 00:17:14,890 --> 00:17:17,790 Speaker 1: and it had exploded and sunk in under five minutes. 255 00:17:18,450 --> 00:17:23,230 Speaker 1: More than 850 of the 1,350 sailors aboard had been killed. 256 00:17:24,190 --> 00:17:28,179 Speaker 1: The Admiralty had really tried to keep this quiet. They 257 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,650 Speaker 1: weren't sure if the German high command knew about the sinking, 258 00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:34,369 Speaker 1: and if they didn't, Britain surely did not want them 259 00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:38,830 Speaker 1: to find out. British authorities were also deeply concerned about 260 00:17:38,869 --> 00:17:42,229 Speaker 1: the effect that the news of a sunken battleship and 261 00:17:42,450 --> 00:17:45,369 Speaker 1: so much loss of life would have had on morale, 262 00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:49,869 Speaker 1: both for the military and for the public. Sources contradict 263 00:17:49,950 --> 00:17:53,929 Speaker 1: on whether the sailors next of kin were notified promptly 264 00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:58,020 Speaker 1: or whether that didn't happen for several weeks. Either way, 265 00:17:58,180 --> 00:18:00,330 Speaker 1: once the families heard, they were told to keep it 266 00:18:00,369 --> 00:18:03,869 Speaker 1: a secret. One source even claims that the Royal Navy 267 00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:08,109 Speaker 1: sent fake holiday messages on the deceased sailors' behalf before 268 00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:11,530 Speaker 1: informing anybody that they had actually been killed. I could 269 00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:14,129 Speaker 1: not find verification of that, but it did come up 270 00:18:14,190 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: in one of the sources that I used for this episode. Regardless, though, 271 00:18:18,220 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: Britain did not publicly announce that the ship had been 272 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: sunk until January 27th, 1942. more than two months after 273 00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:31,580 Speaker 1: it happened, after German media had reported that it had happened, 274 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 1: and also months after it had come up in this seance. 275 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,369 Speaker 1: Although believers saw this as evidence that Helen Duncan really 276 00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:44,270 Speaker 1: was communicating with people from beyond, others saw it as 277 00:18:44,369 --> 00:18:47,629 Speaker 1: evidence that there was an information leak happening somewhere in 278 00:18:47,650 --> 00:18:52,230 Speaker 1: the Royal Navy. The Royal Navy Command Headquarters is in Portsmouth, 279 00:18:52,380 --> 00:18:56,470 Speaker 1: and Portsmouth was the Barham's home port. And even with 280 00:18:56,570 --> 00:18:58,869 Speaker 1: efforts to keep things quiet, there were a lot of 281 00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,770 Speaker 1: people who knew that the Barham had been sunk, both 282 00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:05,830 Speaker 1: within the Royal Navy and outside of it. In addition 283 00:19:05,910 --> 00:19:08,649 Speaker 1: to all the sailors aboard all the other ships in 284 00:19:08,670 --> 00:19:12,220 Speaker 1: the convoy who witnessed that sinking, and everyone in the 285 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,380 Speaker 1: command structure who would have heard about it, and everyone 286 00:19:15,420 --> 00:19:17,700 Speaker 1: who was part of the decision to keep it quiet, 287 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,420 Speaker 1: and everyone who helped fake holiday messages home if that 288 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,310 Speaker 1: really happened, the ship's explosion and sinking... were captured on 289 00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:30,060 Speaker 1: film by a newsreel reporter from British Pathé. So it's 290 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: likely that thousands of people actually knew about this sinking. 291 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: And that's a lot of people to keep a secret. Yeah, 292 00:19:37,260 --> 00:19:40,020 Speaker 1: a lot of people and a lot of them concentrated 293 00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:44,990 Speaker 1: in Portsmouth, where Helen Duncan was. There are also some 294 00:19:45,010 --> 00:19:48,570 Speaker 1: discrepancies about exactly what it was that Duncan said during 295 00:19:48,609 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: this seance in some accounts, she volunteered the name of 296 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: the HMS Barham, and in others, it came from more 297 00:19:55,260 --> 00:19:59,050 Speaker 1: of a cold read, asking questions of this sailor's mother 298 00:19:59,130 --> 00:20:03,350 Speaker 1: until she mentioned the ship's name. It's widely concluded that 299 00:20:03,390 --> 00:20:08,100 Speaker 1: these two seances, especially the second one, motivated British authorities 300 00:20:08,170 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: to try to keep Helen Duncan quiet during the planning 301 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,500 Speaker 1: of the D-Day invasion of Normandy, and that is why 302 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: she was tried under the Witchcraft Act. Planning for D-Day 303 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,070 Speaker 1: started in 1943, and it was absolutely critical that it 304 00:20:22,090 --> 00:20:26,470 Speaker 1: be kept secret. Duncan had become enormously popular, and if 305 00:20:26,550 --> 00:20:30,189 Speaker 1: she revealed some secret information in a seance, it was 306 00:20:30,230 --> 00:20:33,190 Speaker 1: going to be a serious problem. We'll talk more about 307 00:20:33,230 --> 00:20:47,830 Speaker 1: that after another quick sponsor break. In January of 1944, 308 00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:51,570 Speaker 1: Helen Duncan conducted a series of seances at the Master 309 00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: Temple Psychic Center in Portsmouth, England. The Master Temple Psychic 310 00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: Center was a space above Homer's Drugstore, and it was 311 00:20:59,940 --> 00:21:04,379 Speaker 1: registered as a church. Homer's Drugstore was run by Ernest 312 00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:07,969 Speaker 1: Homer and Elizabeth Jones, They weren't technically married, but they 313 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,300 Speaker 1: lived and worked together as a couple, and most people 314 00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:14,060 Speaker 1: just called them Mr. and Mrs. Homer. They were spiritualists. 315 00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:18,010 Speaker 1: They donated any money they earned from spiritualist events that 316 00:21:18,050 --> 00:21:21,950 Speaker 1: they hosted above their shop to various charities and spiritualist causes. 317 00:21:22,730 --> 00:21:27,550 Speaker 1: They paid Helen Duncan 104 pounds for a week of seances, 318 00:21:27,609 --> 00:21:30,580 Speaker 1: which she conducted with the help of her assistant, Frances Browne. 319 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:36,379 Speaker 1: On January 14th, 1944, two officers from the Royal Navy 320 00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:40,180 Speaker 1: attended one of these seances, a Lieutenant Worth and a 321 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,740 Speaker 1: Surgeon Lieutenant Fowler. Duncan claimed to manifest one of the 322 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,100 Speaker 1: men's mother and sister, but both of those people were 323 00:21:48,180 --> 00:21:51,940 Speaker 1: actually alive. It is possible that she had meant this 324 00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:55,070 Speaker 1: message for someone else in the room. The sitters had 325 00:21:55,109 --> 00:21:59,139 Speaker 1: assigned seats, but there had been some shuffling. I will 326 00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:01,260 Speaker 1: just take a moment to note that we are aware 327 00:22:01,340 --> 00:22:03,670 Speaker 1: that in Britain people say that left in it, but 328 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:11,230 Speaker 1: we are not British. On the 19th, Worth went back 329 00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:14,130 Speaker 1: for another seance, and this time he was accompanied by 330 00:22:14,250 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: a War Reserve police officer. During this seance, one of 331 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,659 Speaker 1: these men switched on the main light and opened up 332 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,510 Speaker 1: the curtain to the medium's cabinet. They found Duncan standing 333 00:22:26,550 --> 00:22:31,100 Speaker 1: there barefoot. She had this piece of white material. Police 334 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: were outside waiting for a signal, and when Worth blew 335 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,020 Speaker 1: a whistle to summon them, they came barging in. They 336 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: wanted to get that material as evidence that it wasn't 337 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: really ectoplasm, but it disappeared. Generally believed that it got, like, 338 00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:48,260 Speaker 1: passed from hand to hand among the sitters, and somebody 339 00:22:49,020 --> 00:22:53,740 Speaker 1: secreted it away. Her account was that it got absorbed 340 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,740 Speaker 1: back into her body. There are also reports that there 341 00:22:56,780 --> 00:23:00,500 Speaker 1: was a hat band that had purportedly been manifested from 342 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,060 Speaker 1: one of the sailors aboard the Barham, but it was 343 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: printed with HMS Barham when it should have just said 344 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:08,770 Speaker 1: HMS and not the name of the ship, and that 345 00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:12,810 Speaker 1: proved that it was fake. After this police raid, Helen Duncan, 346 00:23:13,010 --> 00:23:16,630 Speaker 1: Frances Brown, and Mr. and Mrs. Homer were all arrested. 347 00:23:17,540 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: This was apparently big enough news that the BBC interrupted 348 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: a report on a Russian advance on the Eastern Front 349 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: to talk about it. At first, all four of them 350 00:23:28,660 --> 00:23:32,830 Speaker 1: were charged under the Vagrancy Act of 1824, or an 351 00:23:33,609 --> 00:23:36,990 Speaker 1: act for the punishment of idle and disorderly persons and 352 00:23:37,090 --> 00:23:41,090 Speaker 1: rogues and vagabonds in that part of Great Britain called England. 353 00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: At this point, this was the act most often used 354 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: to prosecute people who were conducting seances. Section 4 of 355 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,660 Speaker 1: it read in part, quote, every person pretending or professing 356 00:23:54,740 --> 00:23:59,330 Speaker 1: to tell fortunes or using any subtle craft, means, or 357 00:23:59,369 --> 00:24:04,389 Speaker 1: device by palmistry or otherwise to deceive and impose on 358 00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:08,590 Speaker 1: any of his majesty's subjects shall be deemed a rogue 359 00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:12,379 Speaker 1: and a vagabond. within the true intent and meaning of 360 00:24:12,550 --> 00:24:17,330 Speaker 1: this act. So Duncan Brown and the Homers were by 361 00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:20,669 Speaker 1: far not the only people to be charged under this 362 00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:24,369 Speaker 1: law in the 1940s and other times too. Because of 363 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:27,230 Speaker 1: the ongoing war, there were a lot of people who 364 00:24:27,270 --> 00:24:33,190 Speaker 1: were prosecuted, charged with basically taking advantage of grieving families 365 00:24:33,970 --> 00:24:38,820 Speaker 1: to give them fake mediumship under this act. Parts of 366 00:24:38,859 --> 00:24:41,220 Speaker 1: the Vagrancy Act are still on the books, and in 367 00:24:41,260 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it is a law that criminalizes 368 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:48,420 Speaker 1: poverty and homelessness. But most infractions of it were considered 369 00:24:48,460 --> 00:24:53,100 Speaker 1: to be relatively minor. The maximum sentence for offenses related 370 00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:56,659 Speaker 1: to fortune-telling was three months in prison, and most people 371 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: just paid a fine. In spite of that, Duncan was 372 00:25:00,420 --> 00:25:04,540 Speaker 1: jailed for four days until being released on bail. As 373 00:25:04,580 --> 00:25:08,300 Speaker 1: we said before, it's generally understood that the point of 374 00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: all this was to try to make sure that Duncan 375 00:25:11,530 --> 00:25:13,970 Speaker 1: would not be able to blab some kind of secret 376 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:18,609 Speaker 1: intelligence related to the D-Day invasion. That would require more 377 00:25:18,670 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: than a fine and more than three months in jail. 378 00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: And that is where the Witchcraft Act of 1735 comes in. 379 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:30,530 Speaker 1: This was... an act to repeal the statute made in 380 00:25:30,550 --> 00:25:33,150 Speaker 1: the first year of the reign of King James I, 381 00:25:33,369 --> 00:25:37,550 Speaker 1: entitled An Act Against Conjuration, Witchcraft, and Dealing with Evil 382 00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:41,510 Speaker 1: and Wicked Spirits, except so much thereof as repeals an 383 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:43,860 Speaker 1: act of the fifth year of the reign of Queen 384 00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: Elizabeth against conjurations, enchantments, and witchcrafts, and to repeal an 385 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: act passed in the Parliament of Scotland in the Ninth 386 00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:58,710 Speaker 1: Parliament of Queen Mary entitled Anentus Witchcrafts, and for punishing 387 00:25:58,770 --> 00:26:03,050 Speaker 1: such persons as pretend to exercise or use any kind 388 00:26:03,090 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: of witchcraft, sorcery, enchantment, or conjuration. Under this witchcraft act, 389 00:26:10,410 --> 00:26:14,100 Speaker 1: a person could be sentenced to a fine and imprisonment 390 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,379 Speaker 1: for up to a year, along with having to stand 391 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: in the pillory for an hour every quarter, although at 392 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: this point the pillory had been abolished in England for 393 00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:27,650 Speaker 1: more than a century. To be extremely clear, if someone 394 00:26:27,710 --> 00:26:32,330 Speaker 1: was tried for violating the Witchcraft Act of 1735, they 395 00:26:32,350 --> 00:26:36,350 Speaker 1: were not being tried for witchcraft. It was not possible 396 00:26:36,510 --> 00:26:41,940 Speaker 1: to try someone for witchcraft under the Witchcraft Act of 1735. 397 00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:45,940 Speaker 1: In fact, the act outlawed trying people for witchcraft. Quote, 398 00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: no prosecution suit or proceeding shall be commenced or carried 399 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: on against any person or persons for witchcraft, sorcery, enchantment, 400 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 1: or conjuration, or for charging another with any such offense 401 00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:05,250 Speaker 1: in any court whatsoever in Great Britain. Instead, this act 402 00:27:05,369 --> 00:27:09,250 Speaker 1: targeted people who, quote, pretend to exercise or use any 403 00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:14,230 Speaker 1: kind of witchcraft, sorcery, enchantment, or conjuration, or to undertake 404 00:27:14,270 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: to tell fortunes, or pretend from his or her skill 405 00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:22,889 Speaker 1: or knowledge in any occult or crafty science, to discover 406 00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:27,110 Speaker 1: where or in what manner any goods or chattels supposed 407 00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: to have been stolen or lost may be found. In 408 00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:33,940 Speaker 1: other words, this was built around the idea that witchcraft 409 00:27:34,060 --> 00:27:37,379 Speaker 1: was not real and that the people who claimed to 410 00:27:37,420 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: be witches or sorcerers or enchanters or conjurers or fortune 411 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,859 Speaker 1: tellers were defrauding people. This act was a response to 412 00:27:46,890 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: the horrifying witch trials that had taken place in the 413 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,500 Speaker 1: UK and elsewhere, especially during the 17th and early 18th centuries, 414 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: at which point witchcraft itself was illegal under those laws 415 00:27:58,619 --> 00:28:02,340 Speaker 1: that the Witchcraft Act repealed. We have talked about those 416 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,500 Speaker 1: earlier laws and the witch hunts connected to them in 417 00:28:05,580 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: previous episodes of the show, including our episode on Matthew Hopkins, 418 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,190 Speaker 1: who billed himself as the Witchfinder General, which we ran 419 00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:17,810 Speaker 1: as a recent Saturday classic. So the Witchcraft Act of 420 00:28:17,810 --> 00:28:20,830 Speaker 1: 1735 repealed the Kingdom of Great Britain's laws that framed 421 00:28:20,890 --> 00:28:24,270 Speaker 1: witchcraft as real and replaced them with one that framed 422 00:28:24,330 --> 00:28:29,660 Speaker 1: witchcraft as pretend. Duncan Brown and the Homers were charged 423 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,300 Speaker 1: with seven crimes. including infractions of the Witchcraft Act. Those 424 00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:38,550 Speaker 1: charges were connected to Duncan purporting, quote, to exercise or 425 00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:42,350 Speaker 1: use a kind of conjuration that through the agency of 426 00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:45,870 Speaker 1: Helen Duncan, spirits of deceased persons should appear to be 427 00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: present in such a place as Helen Duncan was then in, 428 00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: and that the said spirits were communicating with living persons 429 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: then present. There were also charges under the Larceny Act 430 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:02,940 Speaker 1: because Duncan had taken money, quote, by falsely pretending that 431 00:29:02,980 --> 00:29:05,820 Speaker 1: she was in a position to bring about the appearances 432 00:29:05,980 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: of the spirits of deceased persons. And they were all 433 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,810 Speaker 1: charged with, quote, affecting a public mischief. All these charges 434 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,430 Speaker 1: were connected to the seances that had taken place on 435 00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:21,550 Speaker 1: January 14th and 19th, which we've already talked about, as 436 00:29:21,650 --> 00:29:25,030 Speaker 1: well as one she conducted on the 17th, that was 437 00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:28,430 Speaker 1: attended by a dock worker known as Mr. Burrell, and 438 00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:32,260 Speaker 1: he was a medium himself, but did not find Duncan's 439 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,870 Speaker 1: manifestations to be convincing at all. This trial began on 440 00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: March 23, 1944, in Court 4 of the Central Criminal Court. Court, a.k.a. 441 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: the Old Bailey, before Recorder of London Sir Gerald Dodson. 442 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,540 Speaker 1: That building had been damaged in the Blitz. The public 443 00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:52,380 Speaker 1: gallery was closed, but people thronged the entire area and 444 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: packed into the accessible areas of the building to try 445 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,380 Speaker 1: to get a look. The The trial and its aftermath 446 00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: were widely reported all over the UK and in the 447 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: United States. All four defendants pleaded not guilty, and at 448 00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:09,930 Speaker 1: the start of the trial, Prosecutor John Maude stressed that 449 00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:14,010 Speaker 1: they were not being tried as witches. Quote, I want 450 00:30:14,030 --> 00:30:17,050 Speaker 1: to make it abundantly clear at the very commencement of 451 00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:21,130 Speaker 1: this prosecution that this is in no way connected with witchcraft. 452 00:30:21,790 --> 00:30:24,620 Speaker 1: It is in no way aimed at the honest beliefs, 453 00:30:24,730 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: whatever they may be, of any man or woman. What 454 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: it is aimed at is something quite different. It is 455 00:30:31,580 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: aimed at just ordinary common fraud. Meanwhile, the defense was 456 00:30:36,790 --> 00:30:40,290 Speaker 1: led by Barrister C.E. Loseby, who is a spiritualist and 457 00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:45,530 Speaker 1: whose services were arranged by the Spiritualists National Union. His 458 00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:49,710 Speaker 1: defense was built around calling nearly 50 witnesses to attest 459 00:30:49,750 --> 00:30:53,950 Speaker 1: to Duncan's seances being the real thing. This involved a 460 00:30:54,090 --> 00:30:56,910 Speaker 1: very long chain of people recounting what they had seen 461 00:30:56,970 --> 00:30:59,070 Speaker 1: at seances going all the way back to the early 462 00:30:59,990 --> 00:31:02,750 Speaker 1: 1930s and all of the various things that they said 463 00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:06,910 Speaker 1: she'd manifested or had told them. While on the stand, 464 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:12,380 Speaker 1: Portsmouth's Chief Constable Arthur West referenced the Barham sinking, saying, quote, 465 00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:16,220 Speaker 1: On one occasion in 1941, she was reported as having 466 00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:21,060 Speaker 1: transgressed the security laws, again in a naval connection, when 467 00:31:21,140 --> 00:31:24,459 Speaker 1: she foretold the loss of one of His Majesty's ships 468 00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:28,210 Speaker 1: long before the fact was made public. I can only 469 00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:32,470 Speaker 1: describe this woman as an unmitigated humbug who can only 470 00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:36,710 Speaker 1: be regarded as a pest to a certain section of society. 471 00:31:37,820 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: The trial went on for seven days, and at the 472 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: end of it, the recorder instructed the jury to simplify 473 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: the issue and deliberate only on the charges related to 474 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,700 Speaker 1: the Witchcraft Act to ignore the others. After deliberating for 475 00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:54,780 Speaker 1: less than half an hour, the jury found all four 476 00:31:54,840 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: defendants guilty. You could argue that what her defense really 477 00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,380 Speaker 1: did was establish that she had been doing this illegal 478 00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: thing for more than a decade. with a whole lot 479 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:14,350 Speaker 1: of witness testimony. Duncan was sentenced to nine months in prison. 480 00:32:14,890 --> 00:32:18,370 Speaker 1: Her assistant, Frances Brown, was sentenced to four months in prison. 481 00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:22,860 Speaker 1: Brown had shown Lieutenant Worth some spirit photos in support 482 00:32:22,890 --> 00:32:25,620 Speaker 1: of Duncan's claim to be a medium, so she was 483 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:28,980 Speaker 1: considered to have committed a fraud of her own. The 484 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: Homers were bound over. In other words, they were released 485 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,420 Speaker 1: under the condition that they had to maintain good behavior 486 00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: and not re-offend. Don't hire any more mediums to come 487 00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: and hang out at your place. If this really was 488 00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:46,710 Speaker 1: all an intentional effort to keep Duncan quiet through the 489 00:32:46,750 --> 00:32:50,870 Speaker 1: Normandy invasion, Prime Minister Winston Churchill does not seem to 490 00:32:50,890 --> 00:32:54,940 Speaker 1: have been aware of it. On April 3rd, 1944, apparently 491 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: after reading news coverage of the trial, he sent a 492 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: memo to the Home Secretary Herbert Morrison, which read, quote, 493 00:33:02,110 --> 00:33:05,150 Speaker 1: let me have a report on why the Witchcraft Act 494 00:33:05,150 --> 00:33:09,190 Speaker 1: 1735 was used in a modern court of justice. What 495 00:33:09,230 --> 00:33:12,330 Speaker 1: was the cost of this trial to the state, observing 496 00:33:12,370 --> 00:33:15,660 Speaker 1: that witnesses were brought from Portsmouth and maintained here in 497 00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:19,140 Speaker 1: this crowded London for a fortnight, and the recorder kept 498 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: busy with all this obsolete tomfoolery to the detriment of 499 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,310 Speaker 1: necessary work in the courts? The defendant's attorneys filed an appeal. 500 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,229 Speaker 1: but in part because it took so incredibly long to 501 00:33:32,350 --> 00:33:37,110 Speaker 1: transcribe the testimony of all those many defense witnesses that 502 00:33:37,170 --> 00:33:40,790 Speaker 1: did not happen for months. By the time the appeal 503 00:33:40,830 --> 00:33:44,130 Speaker 1: was heard, Frances Brown had already completed her sentence with 504 00:33:44,170 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: time off for good behavior. The convictions were upheld, though 505 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,060 Speaker 1: Duncan was returned to Holloway Prison. The prison was damaged 506 00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: in a bombing in the summer of 1944 while Duncan 507 00:33:56,380 --> 00:34:01,860 Speaker 1: was still incarcerated there. She reportedly conducted seances from her cell, 508 00:34:01,940 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: and she was released on September 22, 1944, having served 509 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: about six months. She was not, as it is widely reported, 510 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,020 Speaker 1: the last person tried for violating the Witchcraft Act. That 511 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,779 Speaker 1: seems to be Jane Rebecca York of Forest Gate in 512 00:34:16,910 --> 00:34:20,250 Speaker 1: East Ham, who was tried in late 1944, also in 513 00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:23,029 Speaker 1: the Old Bailey, in the same court and with the 514 00:34:23,070 --> 00:34:27,570 Speaker 1: same prosecutor as Duncan had been. Apparently, what got York 515 00:34:27,710 --> 00:34:30,290 Speaker 1: in bad enough trouble to face charges under the Witchcraft 516 00:34:30,450 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: Act instead of the Vagrancy Act included impersonating Queen Victoria. 517 00:34:35,860 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: Although she was convicted, York was not jailed because of 518 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,500 Speaker 1: her age. She was in her 70s. She paid a 519 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,870 Speaker 1: fine of £ 5. Duncan's conviction and jail sentence have been 520 00:34:47,910 --> 00:34:51,950 Speaker 1: credited with sparking a movement to repeal the Witchcraft Act, 521 00:34:52,150 --> 00:34:55,510 Speaker 1: in part because it could be read as outlawing spiritualism 522 00:34:55,630 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: across the board. In the words of D. Abdi Collins, 523 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: writing in the Modern Law Review in July of 1945, quote, 524 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: which was framed with entirely different ideas, the practice of 525 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,899 Speaker 1: mediumship has, in effect, been made illegal. And here and there, 526 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,969 Speaker 1: police consider it their duty to try to put a 527 00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:23,710 Speaker 1: stop to it. The Witchcraft Acts and the relevant parts 528 00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:26,970 Speaker 1: of the Vagrancy Act were repealed under the Fraudulent Mediums 529 00:35:27,130 --> 00:35:29,029 Speaker 1: Act of 1951, or an act to repeal the Witchcraft 530 00:35:29,450 --> 00:35:35,550 Speaker 1: Act 1735 and to make in substitution for certain provisions 531 00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:40,250 Speaker 1: of Section 4 of the Vagrancy Act, 1824, express provision 532 00:35:40,290 --> 00:35:44,140 Speaker 1: for the punishment of persons who fraudulently purport to act 533 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,980 Speaker 1: as spiritualistic mediums or to exercise powers of telepathy, clairvoyance, 534 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: or other similar powers. Under this new law, a person 535 00:35:54,060 --> 00:35:57,589 Speaker 1: was guilty of an offense if they, quote, a. with 536 00:35:57,690 --> 00:36:02,029 Speaker 1: intent to deceive, purport to act as a spiritualistic medium 537 00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:06,989 Speaker 1: or exercise any powers of telepathy, clairvoyance, or other similar powers, 538 00:36:07,739 --> 00:36:11,500 Speaker 1: or B, in purporting to act as a spiritualistic medium 539 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: or to exercise such powers as Afras said, uses any 540 00:36:15,980 --> 00:36:21,050 Speaker 1: fraudulent device. In other words, spiritualism, acting as a medium, 541 00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:23,870 Speaker 1: they were only a crime if carried out with the 542 00:36:23,989 --> 00:36:27,950 Speaker 1: intent to deceive, Later on, the law specified that a 543 00:36:27,989 --> 00:36:31,069 Speaker 1: person could only be convicted of this offense if they 544 00:36:31,110 --> 00:36:35,550 Speaker 1: had taken money or something else of value in exchange 545 00:36:35,590 --> 00:36:39,779 Speaker 1: for doing this. So if you genuinely believed that you 546 00:36:39,820 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: could talk to spirits, that was no longer a crime. 547 00:36:43,739 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: But if you faked people out about it and took 548 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,420 Speaker 1: their money, it was. Even after these changes in the law, 549 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,980 Speaker 1: Helen Duncan was arrested at least one other time in 1956, 550 00:36:53,980 --> 00:36:57,299 Speaker 1: although this time she did not face charges. But some 551 00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: of her family pointed to this arrest as causing a 552 00:37:00,010 --> 00:37:03,350 Speaker 1: rapid decline in her health. She died just a few 553 00:37:03,390 --> 00:37:08,209 Speaker 1: months later on December 6, 1956, at the age of 59. 554 00:37:08,210 --> 00:37:11,130 Speaker 1: Her cause of death was diabetes and heart failure. She 555 00:37:11,170 --> 00:37:14,069 Speaker 1: was cremated and her ashes were scattered at a cemetery 556 00:37:14,170 --> 00:37:18,980 Speaker 1: in Colander. The Fraudulent Mediums Act was repealed under the 557 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:25,650 Speaker 1: Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations in 2008. But aside 558 00:37:25,690 --> 00:37:29,569 Speaker 1: from the sections related to fortune-telling, many other provisions of 559 00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:33,549 Speaker 1: the Vagrancy Act are still on the books. That act 560 00:37:33,610 --> 00:37:36,570 Speaker 1: is currently under review. As we said earlier, parts of 561 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,420 Speaker 1: it essentially criminalized homelessness without doing anything to address the 562 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,210 Speaker 1: causes of homelessness. The UK government has expressed an intent 563 00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:49,670 Speaker 1: to repeal this law, but only after analyzing how its 564 00:37:49,750 --> 00:37:53,750 Speaker 1: repeal would affect things like law enforcement and what they 565 00:37:53,770 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: should include in a different law to take its place. 566 00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 1: Some of Duncan's descendants have also taken up an effort 567 00:37:59,780 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: to get her posthumously pardoned. The Scottish Parliament rejected a 568 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,490 Speaker 1: petition to do so in 2008. Yeah, I'm not totally 569 00:38:07,550 --> 00:38:09,710 Speaker 1: sure if that effort is still ongoing. There used to 570 00:38:09,770 --> 00:38:15,020 Speaker 1: be a website about it. But that website is no 571 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 1: longer there. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. 572 00:38:24,090 --> 00:38:25,790 Speaker 1: If you'd like to send us a note, our email 573 00:38:25,810 --> 00:38:31,190 Speaker 1: address is historypodcast at iheartradio.com. And you can subscribe to 574 00:38:31,210 --> 00:38:34,550 Speaker 1: the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 575 00:38:34,590 --> 00:38:36,140 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.