1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. What you don't expect when 2 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: you leave a restaurant, say Applebees or Eyehob or wherever 3 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: you may be, is for a car to gun the 4 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: engine and come straight at you, not just once, but 5 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: three times. And what you really don't expect is for 6 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: that to happen to your boy, your son, the one 7 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: that you have poured all your love, all your energy, 8 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: your hopes, and your dreams. To see him mowed down 9 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: like a dog in a parking lot. I mean, see, Grace, 10 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 11 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven, where 12 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: we are dedicated to solving unsolved homicides, to finding missing people, 13 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: especially children, all across our country, and to address in justice. 14 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to our friends at 15 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: wi SHTV. Smith was pronounced dead just before one o'clock 16 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: Friday morning. His family had rushed to the scene on 17 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: the East eighty second Street. Many of them saw his 18 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: lifeless body trapped under a car. It's a memory that 19 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: will haunt them forever. For me, like underhaedible industry, I 20 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: don't want nobody love me that hard. If you've got 21 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: to take my life. The emotions are still very wrong. 22 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: Smith's ann's Frandica and Sandra Day describe the last minutes 23 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: of their nephew's life. A lot of our net my 24 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: nephews hurt beneath his cousins, our nephews and cousins and sons. 25 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: Seeing our loved one of underneath the car, crying him 26 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: for help as he was trying to raise his kid, 27 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: ran over my gear and go get up the strict. 28 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 1: I have a vision that still haunts me to this day. 29 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: I was on the way to one of my nephews graduations, 30 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: and in this like eight lane highway somebody had hit 31 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: a cat, and the little cat was trying to raise 32 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: his head and get up and get away. This young man, 33 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: this beautiful young man, really at the beginning of his life, 34 00:02:53,800 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: Andre Smith. The thought of him being moved down, seemingly 35 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: on purpose, under that car, trying to trying to get up, 36 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: trying to raise up before he died. Did you hear 37 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: the crying and the sobs in the background. Take a 38 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:24,559 Speaker 1: listen again to our friend Richard Essex at wi SHTV 39 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: is Compelli overwhelming. Within minutes, Smith was pronounced dead by 40 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: the Indianapolis fire department. His last moments are replayed in 41 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: the collective memory of his family, and it replays every 42 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: time I blink right now, every plays every time we 43 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: have to talk about it, or if I'm sleeping night. 44 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: So I could only imagine how my sister is feeling 45 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: right now, I could owe you imagine. It's one thing 46 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: to you know injured or wounded person, but to take 47 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: a life while they are or yelling for help help me. 48 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: A young man and a young lady inside of CALLI, 49 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: whoever you are, our hearts go out to you, and 50 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. They 51 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: ran out of there, and even in the midst of 52 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: all that pain, Andre's family thanking two of the patrons 53 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: in the restaurant, they came out and tried to help, 54 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: but to no avail with me an Ulster panel to 55 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: make sense of what we know right now in the 56 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: brutal murder of this young man in the prime of 57 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: his life, growing up into the man his mother wanted 58 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: him to be. First, I want to go to a 59 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: special guest joining us. This is Andrea's mother, Miss Sanders. 60 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: I do not know how you have the strength to 61 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: put one foot in front of the other. You know, 62 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: I have twins, and even being away from them when 63 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: they go to Scout can't for Pete's sake is I 64 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: hate it. I hate every minute of it. I'm just 65 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: so sorry, miss senators, what you're going through. First of all, 66 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: what are your days and nights like as you relive 67 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: over and over learning that your son was killed? Um, 68 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: Nancy's Um, it's hard for me to sleep and night. UM, 69 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: I can't focus during the day. UM it's my son's 70 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: death is waning heavy on my heart. UM. I just 71 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: it's horrible, like I can't stop thinking about my son, 72 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: and I wish I could have been here to help them. 73 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: I remember, Miss Sanders, that after Keith's my fiance, Keith's murderer, 74 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: I would wake up in the morning and for about 75 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: maybe two maybe three seconds, I wouldn't remember. I'd wake 76 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: up and think it as normal, and then it would 77 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: hit me like a brick Keith was murdered, and then 78 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: it starts the whole thing all over again. How do 79 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: you get through the day. I'm currently taking anxiety medications. 80 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: I can't. I have to take them throughout the day 81 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: because if I don't, I'm crying all day. I keep 82 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: crying and crying and crying. When did you learn Do 83 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: you remember that moment you learned Andre had been mowed down? Yes, 84 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: I remember it. I can't forget it. I had gotten 85 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: a call from one of my family members and told 86 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: me that my son. This was the words that came 87 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: out of my family member's mouth that he wasn't responding, 88 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I asked my family member, who are 89 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: you talking about? And he stated Andre. Immediately rushed to 90 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: Community North Hospital in Indianapolis looking for my son. I 91 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: had no idea what was going on. I just was 92 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: looking for my baby. And I was going crazy at 93 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: that time because I hadn't gotten the calls from the 94 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: police or anyone. So I ran to Community North Highspital 95 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: looking for my baby and he wasn't there. You are 96 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: giving me chills all down my arms and legs right 97 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: now because that feeling of trying to get there and 98 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: not knowing what's happening. I remember I was in New 99 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: York with my twins when I found out they wanted 100 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: to put my dad on life support. I got them 101 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: dressed up, out of the bed and out in the 102 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 1: street at midnight trying to get home, and that feeling. 103 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: You don't know what's happening. You can't find them, you're 104 00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: not there. It's awful, it's terrible. So you're at the hospital. 105 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: What happened when you got to the hospital day. He 106 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: didn't have any information on my son andre Um. So 107 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: a family member had reached out at this time with 108 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: my sister because I had blacked out. I had parked somewhere. 109 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: My sister found me and she came and got me, 110 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: and my sister ended up talking to one of the 111 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: family members and they explained to us where my son's 112 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: body was located in heaven. Did you say you you 113 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: blacked out? Yeah, like my sister, she was able. I 114 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: guess she me and her we share locations, so she 115 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: found where I was at. I was at a speedway 116 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: gas station near my home. I guess I. I was 117 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: driving out of my apartment, my condo, and I ended 118 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: up at a speedway and my sister found me. When 119 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: she found me, somehow I came back to my senses 120 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: and then that's where we continued on to go where 121 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: the family member told me my son's body was Joe 122 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan with me Jo Scott, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville, State University, 123 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, death Investigator 124 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: starving new hit series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan 125 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: on iHeart. I could go on, but Joe Scott, what 126 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: is that? Because I know I'm projecting a lot right now, 127 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: but I just keep thinking about when I went to 128 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: Keith's funeral, I did not want to see his body. 129 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but at that point in my life, 130 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: I did not want to see his body. And I 131 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: remember I turned and looked into where his coffin was, 132 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: and I saw the very top of his face above 133 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: the edge of the coffin and passed out. I passed 134 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: out right there and came to to the smell of 135 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: those that horrible smell of carnations, you know, that cloying smell. 136 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: What is that? Just Scott, when you you heard miss Sanders, 137 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: this is Andre Smith's mother say sheep blacked out, which 138 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: I take to mean pass out? What is How do 139 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: you get so upset you pass out? There's no greater 140 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: pain in this world than death. I've had a lot 141 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: of people talk about it, of course, I've seen it 142 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: throughout my career, and it hits you in a place 143 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: that's almost primal because in my estimation, you're suddenly face 144 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: to face with the finality of the end of it, 145 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: the end of life. What happens in your body, it's 146 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: almost like a shock, a sudden shock, and I when 147 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm when I say that I'm talking about you'll have 148 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: a dip in blood pressure, you get faint light headed. 149 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: The world just seems to swim about you. I've experienced 150 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: this with death and my own family as well. I 151 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: think a lot of us have, and it's just that 152 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: that final realization, and it's it's hard. I've just never 153 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: really thought it through about what happened when I saw 154 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: part of Keith's face in that coffin, but I just 155 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: completely fell out. Doctor Angela Arnold renowned psychiatrists joining us 156 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie, 157 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: what I guess Joe Scott would have a physical explanation 158 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: about your blood pressure dropping. I bet you would have 159 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: a psychiatric or psychological explanation. Well, you know, Nancy, it's 160 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: it's traumatic. So in all of these cases, what you're 161 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: describing is a trauma and we never know how our 162 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: you know, our body has a fight or flight respond 163 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: and we just lose everything inside of ourselves when they're 164 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: such a trauma. And that's why it's so difficult to 165 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: recover from a trauma. And there and I understand that 166 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: the mom is taking some anti anxiety medicine. There are 167 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: other there's some good types of therapy that I can 168 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: recommend for her. I'm going to hook you two up 169 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: when we get off the air, Doctor Angie. Wonderful and 170 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I want to tell you I really appreciate you offering that. 171 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: Thank you, because she can't get enough help right now. 172 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: And Nancy, it's a trauma. It is a trauma and 173 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: you have to go through. If you can go through, 174 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: it's never going to make it better or different for her. 175 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: But she has to survive because she's the survivor. At 176 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: this time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking 177 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: about and I mean a gorgeous young man talking about 178 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: twenty six year old Andre I mean big smile, all 179 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: decked out and some really expensive tennesseeese. I don't know 180 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: what those are, but just smiling at the camera and 181 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: he looks like a grow man to us, but to 182 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: Miss Sanders, that's her little baby. And thinking about her 183 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: hunched over the wheel of a car at us Did 184 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: you say a speedway gas station, Yes, ma'am. My sister, 185 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: Like I said, we shared locations, and to my knowledge, 186 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: I passed out because when I when she got there, 187 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: she was shake I was bent over the steering bills. 188 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: She was shaking me like get up, get up, press shoes, 189 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: get up. And I woke up and she said come on. 190 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: She grabbed my arm. My nephew was on the other arm, 191 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: and they were taking me to her car. That's when 192 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: I woke up and noticed that I was with my 193 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: sister at that time. When did you next see your 194 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: son Andre? When we got to Tilly's Pub where his 195 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: body was laying underneath a car, you actually saw him 196 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: underneath the car. Yeah. The detectives would not let me 197 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: come closer, but I see it's Tish underneath the car. 198 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: All I wanted to do was see my town and 199 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: they would not let me get close to him because 200 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: of the severity of his face. He was stuck underneath 201 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: the car. Richard Essex joining me and earlier you heard 202 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: his voice our friend at w isaac SHTV. He is 203 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: their prime investigative reporter. You can find him on Twitter 204 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: at Richard Essex three Roman numeral three. Richard, I would 205 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: feel this way the ram feeling right now every time 206 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: I started a murder case, because sometimes the facts are 207 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: like a big wave, they just come and just hit 208 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: you and knock you over. And when I hear Miss 209 00:14:54,440 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: Sanders talking about passing out at that speedway gap station, 210 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: out there all alone in her car, knowing her son 211 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: is dead, and then being taken and seeing him up 212 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: under a car outside a restaurant parking lot in a 213 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: restaurant park you start me off, Richard Essex, thank you 214 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: for being with us what happened that night? Well from 215 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: talking to the police and talking to Miss sanders sisters, 216 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: and by the way, Miss Sanders, your story is heartbreaking. 217 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: It almost brings me to tears. Just listening to what 218 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: you're saying and talking to your sisters, I replay that 219 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: the hour or so that I spent with them last week. 220 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: What strikes me from all of this is how it's 221 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: impacted her family. So many of them were brought up 222 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: to Tillie's Bar as their son nephew was right there 223 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: underneath the car. Guys, take a listen to our friends 224 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: now at fifty nine breaking News from Indie's North Side. 225 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: We have confirmed with police a pedestrian was hit and 226 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: killed by a car in front of a strip mall. 227 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: This happened early this morning, around twelve thirty near Tillies 228 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: Pub on East eighty second Street and Dean Road. Officers 229 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: say they're looking for witnesses to try and piece together 230 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: exactly what happened and more from our friends at wiss 231 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: is Camilla Fernandez. Some people tell me this is an 232 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: unusual occurrence for this part of the city. I've never 233 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: been there, but I know just this area in general, 234 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: especially with the new apartments, and people are always walking 235 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: around and the customers are just always so nice. It's 236 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: kind of disturbing a little bit because this area is 237 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: very clean and nice. People should, you know, try to 238 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: get together and get along, you know, stop this violence. 239 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: Police are asking anyone with any information to come forward. 240 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: Police searching for witnesses to help solve the mystery surround 241 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: founding the death of this young man with us today 242 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: his mother, Miss Sanders and Richard Essex, along with our 243 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: panel whose you're joining us from wish so Richard. I'm 244 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: hearing witnesses speaking to Keno Fernandez stating what a nice 245 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: area it is, and how this is very unusual, which 246 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: proves to me, just because you're in a nice area, 247 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 1: you are not insulated from crime. Tell me about the 248 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 1: area where this restaurant is. It's only we're sit of Indianapolis. 249 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: It's an area of town that has some of the 250 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: better shops. There's some of the cleaner shopping malls. It 251 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: is a nice area, has been a nice, safe area 252 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: for decades. But like every other city, major city in America, 253 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: Indianapolis is not insulated from the violence that has been 254 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: criss crossing the country. And this particular area has seen 255 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: some spikes, as has the rest of the city. And 256 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: regardless of how nice your area is, sometimes violence creeps 257 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: into your back door. And what about this restaurant, Chillies? 258 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: Is it Chili's Pub? It's Stillies Pub. It has been 259 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: around for a long long time. Used to be a 260 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: favorite with some of the NBA players and coaches here 261 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: in Indianapolis. A lot of them live up in that 262 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: area and it has been known to bring in some 263 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: higher profile people. There's expensive shops right behind you, right 264 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: out their back door. When you say expensive shops, what 265 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: do you mean by that? Brooks brothers. You know that's 266 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: type plays. It's more of a higher end shopping center. 267 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: That's pretty high end. You know, the Golden fleece and 268 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: all that. Have you ever priced at a suit there? 269 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: Forget it, Okay, I get your drift. Fancy people, fancy stores, 270 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Celebs hanging out at this bar. 271 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: NBA players hanging out at this bar. Darryl Cohen joining 272 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: me right now, high profile lawyer joining me out of 273 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction. Former felony prosecutor now defense and civil attorney, 274 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: Daryl cohen Man. I learned that pretty quickly when I 275 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: joined you at the Fulton County District Attorney's office. You 276 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: have high crime areas where people are out literally on 277 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: the street, selling dope. I told you the first time 278 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: I saw that in a police report. I keep the 279 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: officer out of court. I was knee. I didn't know 280 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: any better. The officer wrote in history report, I was 281 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: approached by a man on the corner waving in glassing bag. 282 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, do you think I'm I may have used 283 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: a few curse words at that time. That was before 284 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: I had the twins. Do you think I believe that 285 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: somebody walked up to you with a glassing bag of coke. 286 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: Get out a dead docut of the case. All right, 287 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: I go out on the street safe. Three months later, 288 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 1: in that same area, I stopped at a red light. 289 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: Guess what happened? A guy waved a glassing bag of 290 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: dope at me. A feeling that went over my body 291 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: when I realized the cop and telling me the truth. 292 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: Don't worry. I revived the case. Long story short. There 293 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: are areas that are high crime, and there are areas 294 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: you go to take your family to dinner and you 295 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: don't think you're going to get killed in the parking lot. Nancy. 296 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: This is different. This is targeted crime. This happens. So 297 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: do you believe Daryl Cohen that this was targeted? I 298 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: got to agree with you. When somebody, I mean Richard Essex, 299 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: didn't a driver run over Andre three times? Yes? And 300 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: if you look back through the report you could even 301 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: argue that it was a fourth to ten fourth attempt. 302 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: So the part had two run over, back up and 303 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: run over again. Is that how it worked? Yes, from 304 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: reading through the record, made a run at at Andre 305 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: and as friend as they were coming out of Tilly's 306 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: and somebody deflected, and she was able to maneuver a 307 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: car out and then hit him on the side and 308 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: knocked him down, and then ran over him. Run over 309 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: him again twice, guys, and then we have a twist 310 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: in the case. Take a listen to our friends at 311 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: wt h R thirteen. New info in the death of 312 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: a man whose girlfriend was accused of running him over 313 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: in a bar parking lot. Court documents revealed that Galen 314 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: Morris told police she did not mean to run over 315 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: Andre Smith. She actually told police she meant to hit 316 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: the woman that he was with at Tillie's Pub and grill. 317 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: Those documents also revealed that Morris initially denied putting an 318 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: air tag in the car to track him. She then 319 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: admitted to placing it in the back seat. She's now 320 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: charged with vehicular homicide and goes on trial in September. 321 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: Air tag transferred intent. I didn't mean to run over him, 322 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: I meant to run over and kill her. Take a 323 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: listen to our cut eight our friends at Fox fifty nine. 324 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: The family of the man killed in this parking lot 325 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: outside Tilly's Pub believes the death was the result of 326 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: a fatal obsession. The prosecutor hopes the murder charge in 327 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: this case, as well as a second similar murder charge 328 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: filed this week, sends some important messages to everyone, curing 329 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: food out to his car in this parking lot along 330 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: eighty second Street. Last week, twenty six year old Andre 331 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: Smith found himself ambushed and run over three times. Police 332 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: believe the driver that night was a woman who tracks 333 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: Smith to Tilly's Pub. We are devastated, man, heartbroken. I 334 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: really don't think nothing can justify my cousin being gone. 335 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: Smith's family told me that while the suspect, Galen Morris, 336 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: believes Smith was cheating on her with another woman, Smith 337 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: was not dating the suspect at the time, but they 338 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: believe she had become obsessed with his personal life. This 339 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: aviad David claims Morris admitted she put a tracker in 340 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: the backseat of Smith's car and followed him to the 341 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: pub via GPS air tags two. Ray's mother, Miss Lafcia Sanders, 342 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: Miss Sanders, when did you learn that his ex his 343 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: girlfriend ex girlfriend had confessed had admitted she ran down 344 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: your boy in cold blood. It's not like she was 345 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: a drunk driver or it was an accident. She did 346 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: it on purpose. Then sea. I found out when I 347 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,959 Speaker 1: died on the scene because I had seen her car. 348 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: And that's when I found out when the detective walked 349 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: up to me and told me the victim's name, I mean, 350 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: the person's name that killed my father. Did you know her? 351 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: I had met her because they've been knowing each other 352 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: for quite some time. They've been dating off and awful 353 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: quite some time. I've met her maybe three times in total. 354 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: What does she how does she sing to you? How 355 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: did she present when you met her before? I really 356 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: can't say, because I mean it was just more like 357 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: a high end by type of thing. Where were you 358 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: when you met her? He had brought her to a 359 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: house that I was standing during that time, And this 360 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,239 Speaker 1: was like in two thousand and seventeen, maybe, so he 361 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: brought her over and met you. Yeah, yes, ma'am. And 362 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: she seemed normal during that time. Yes, you just see Michael, 363 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: regular person, like a regular normal lady, normal girl, whatever 364 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: you want to call her. She seemed normal at that time. 365 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: This reminds me so much of a case we just 366 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: covered about a thirty something year old pH d student, 367 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: her name n Jinsk Dicks. She had dated a guy 368 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: a couple of you know, months, maybe weeks, and he 369 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: broke up and this PhD student, I've got pictures of her. 370 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: She looks all put together, like she's in one of 371 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: those Brooks Brothers ads. She drives across the country, stalks 372 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: his apartment, his condo, just the way that this woman, 373 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: Galen Morris is charged with stalking Andrea and then shoots 374 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: him dead because he broke up with her. Listen to 375 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. According to Hickman's family, Dix 376 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: had started stalking her former flame after the split, and 377 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: that even though she was from out of state, she 378 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: somehow found out where he lived. In Washington, DC. Shortly 379 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: before five thirty pm, police responded to reports of gunfire 380 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: at the apartment complex in the nation's capital. Police entered 381 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: an apartment where they found a male individual who had 382 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: been shot. They found Nijinsky Dix kneeling beside the bullet 383 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: ridden body of Terry Hickman, who was pronounced dead at 384 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: the scene. Police said Dix was holding a gun in 385 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: her left hand, which officers ordered her to put down. 386 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: She was also on speakerphone with someone who identified themselves 387 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: to authorities as her mother to stalk someone to electronically 388 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: stalk someone in this case, after you've been broken up 389 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: with taking a lesson hour cut for this Felicia Lawrence WTHR. 390 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: And we're getting some answers to what may have happened 391 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: before a man ended up dead in a north sidebar 392 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: parking lot. Court documents reveal his girlfriend has admitted to 393 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: the crime. Those court documents also state that Galen Morris 394 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: told another woman she had used an air tag to 395 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: track Andre Smith to Tilly's Pub because he was cheating 396 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: on her. The same woman told police she saw Morris 397 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: run over Smith three times before getting out of the 398 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: car and coming after Another woman to Laprecia Sanders joining 399 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: us as suss Andre's mother. So if these reports are 400 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: in fact true, and I have no reason to doubt that, 401 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: miss Sanders, she Galen Morris, age twenty six, stalked your 402 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: son like a deer, like a bunny rabbit, the way 403 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: you follow one in a scope. She stalked him with 404 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: an air tag. Yes, ma'am, it was an air tag. 405 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: When did you learn that? I learned that? Um? I 406 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: think it was like the next day after my son's death, 407 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: the detective, the detectives called me and he explained to 408 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: me that the young lady had placed an air tag. 409 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna mention what kind of air tag, but 410 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: she placed the air air tag on the passenger seat 411 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: of the car of his car. And they were broken up, 412 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: weren't they? Hadn't he broken up with her? Yes, ma'am. 413 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: He had separated from her. Um he was currently at 414 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: my grandmother's house at um, you know, living with her 415 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,719 Speaker 1: for a little bit. But his clothes and things were 416 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: still at the apartment that him and Galen his share together. 417 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: So this was a fresh breakup. He had moved in 418 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: with his grandmother and some of his stuff still at 419 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: the suspect's apartment. Joining me right now is Lee Reber, 420 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: mobile device forensic expert CEO of Oxygen Forensics AT an 421 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: author of Mobile Forensic Investigations, A Guide to Evidence Collection. Wow, 422 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: that's pretty impressive, Lee Reeber, thank you for being with us. 423 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: Explain what is an air tag and how does that work? Sure? Sure, 424 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:37,239 Speaker 1: thanks Nancy. So it's really not new technology, you know, 425 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: it's it's it's what's it's a Bluetooth low energy device. 426 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: So what that simply means is it uti wis is 427 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: Bluetooth to say notify a device So here's an example McDonald's. 428 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: McDonald's is one of the largest purchasers of these beacons, 429 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: bluetooth beacons that if you're a McDonald's and you suddenly 430 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: get an AD that might come up onto your phone, 431 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: it's simple use of this bluetooth technology. I don't know 432 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: what you're saying. I'm sorry they did not teach me 433 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: that in law school. What do you mean, I'm Animcdonald's 434 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: in an AD comes up on my phone. Sure, so 435 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: if you go in. We'll take another example. A lot 436 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: of grocery stores will use these bluetooth beacons. So you're 437 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: going down and you're thinking about buying some soup, and 438 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, on your phone, you now 439 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: receive an AD for Campbell's Chunky soup that you might 440 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: be looking for. Those pop up on your phone. Right. 441 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: And so in the case of these or earned air 442 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: tag simply Apple calls us an eyebeacon and what it 443 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: allows people to do using the find my service of 444 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: Apple to be able to track these little tokens if 445 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: they place them on an object. Okay, wait, we used 446 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: toka and you mean the air tag looks like, for instance, 447 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: a suitcase tag that you would put on there with 448 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: your name on it. Yeah. Yeah, just think of it 449 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: just an object, a physical object that you can place. 450 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: Lee Reber. Hold on one second. I think miss Sanders 451 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: wants say and go ahead, Miss Sanders, um, But Lee 452 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: Reaber is trying to explain. I was told that my 453 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: son by the young lady that was with him at Tilly's. 454 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: He kept telling her that someone is tracking us, but 455 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: he didn't He didn't know it was a device in 456 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: his car. But he know he was being tracked by someone, 457 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: but he didn't think it was the girl, the Galen girl, 458 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: or you know, he just didn't know who was. So 459 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: they checked him, the young lady that he was with 460 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: at this Tilly club, They checked the car, they checked around. 461 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: They didn't find anything because it looked like a quarter 462 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: or something. It was underneath his passenger seat. So he 463 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: knew he was being followed, but he didn't know by 464 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: who or anything like that. KNA Wait a minute, then, 465 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: Lee Reber, how would he have known he was being followed? Yeah. 466 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: So the interesting thing that Apple actually added was the 467 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: ability because when they first released with the air tags, 468 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: this is a big issue and it still is a 469 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: big issue with stocking is that these they sounds they 470 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: weren't hearing. They wouldn't know really that they had a 471 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: device that was, say, following them or within their vehicle. 472 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: Now Apple's actually added so that if they have an 473 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: iPhone or an eye device it then they get a 474 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: notification on their device indicating, hey, you have an unknown 475 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: device writing it. Okay, wait a minute, so let me 476 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: try to translate what you're saying into regular people talk. 477 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: I think what you just said is if some if 478 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: you have, if you're being tracked by an air tag, 479 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: then you'll hear a little book or a little something, 480 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: a paying or electronic sound notifying you that somewhere around 481 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: you there's an air tag. Is that what you just said? Correct? Correct? 482 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: And so it is. It's because it's a it's not 483 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: paired to stay your device, right, it's an unknown it's 484 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: an unknown device or air tag that was you know, 485 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: within the area that you are in. When you say 486 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: it's not a paired to your device, that means it's 487 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: not hooked up to your phone or your iPad. It's 488 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: in your area. Like, my children just went on their 489 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: school trip. They haven't gotten to go for three years. 490 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: I guess because of COVID, so they finally got to 491 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: go to the Grand Canyon. Okay, all I could envision 492 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: was the falling off a ledge. So they also couldn't 493 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: take their cell phones, so they couldn't communicate with us. 494 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: And at the last minute, when we were saying goodbye 495 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: at four am, in the parking lot of the school, 496 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: a dad had extra air tags and I said, what 497 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: did you do with those? He said, I put them 498 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: on the backpack, and he gave me two. I put 499 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: them on the twins backpack. I couldn't communicate with them, 500 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: but I could see that they were moving around where 501 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: they were supposed to be out at the Grand Canyon, 502 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: which gave me a lot of comfort. But I didn't 503 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: imagine Richard Essex joining us. Wish that air tags would 504 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: be used in such a nefarious way as they were 505 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: by this woman Galen Morris, age twenty six to track 506 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: down her ex Andre like a dog. She apparently told 507 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: somebody in the parking lot that there was a GPS 508 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: monitoring device in his car, and she knew that his 509 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: car was in that parking lot, and she had been 510 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: questioning people up and down in front of this shopping area. 511 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: Have you seen a guy that with this description inside 512 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: of the bar, and she was walking up and down 513 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: and she saw it, so she knew exactly where his 514 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: car was, and she went up and down right to 515 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: find him. And there's no way around to Daryl Cohen, 516 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: based on what Richard sx W SH is telling us 517 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: that this is premeditated, I don't think this should be 518 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,439 Speaker 1: vehicular homicide, which is often treated like manslaughter, like oh, 519 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: I had a car crash. No, she had to plant 520 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 1: the air tag in his car, She had to follow 521 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: it around, She had to get in her car, crank 522 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: up her car, put it in reverse, put it and drive, 523 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: drive to the location. Then she had to look for him. 524 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: Then she had to get back in her car, wait 525 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: for him to come out, crank up, put it in drive, 526 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: and mow him down three times. That's plenty of time. 527 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: Premeditation under the law can be formed. And the blink 528 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: of an eye, an instant, the twinkling of a moment, 529 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: that's time to form premeditation. This is murder one, Daryl Cohen, 530 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: be Nancy, I don't care about the air take. What 531 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: I care about is what she did. You don't I do? 532 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: I don't because that's getting there I'm talking about being there. 533 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: She ran him over once, she read him over twice, 534 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: she ran him over three times. That is instant premeditation. 535 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: That is instant murder. Taking away. If the court rules 536 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: at the air tags are not admissible, you still have 537 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: her for doing a heeno's trunk crime. And when horror 538 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: happens and you don't ever expect it, horror is now 539 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: and then. And ma'am, I am so sorry for your 540 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,919 Speaker 1: loss for your son. It is beyond the pale. I'm 541 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: just sick about it. I'm just sick about it. And 542 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: over what I break up? I mean, Miss Sanders, has 543 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: this woman tried to communicate with you, Nancy, She better 544 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 1: not try to communicate with me, because right now my 545 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: family and I are hiring. We're hurting really really bad. 546 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: I'm lost, I'm numb. I don't feel like I even 547 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: have a soul anymore. She took for me crime stories 548 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace and Sanders. Tell me something. What was 549 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: he like as a little boy? Oh man full of joy? Uh. 550 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: He loved to wrap, he loved to play. He was 551 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: just like a normal typical kid. Um. He was a 552 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: love child, like everybody loves joy. Like that was a 553 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: love child. He was asleep privacy. He wouldn't harm anybody. 554 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: He just loved to put a whole clothes. He loved clothes, shoes, dude, 555 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: that was that was and he just he didn't deserve 556 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: what she did to my side. So now we have 557 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: to very much out and you know, Joe Scott, what 558 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: he went through, what he went through, He did not 559 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 1: die immediately, and to die up under a car like that, 560 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: trying to lift up his head, trying to live. He 561 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: did not die immediately, Jeff Scott Morgan, No, he didn't. 562 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: And but this is if there is a silver line, 563 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: in which there isn't much of one. When this case 564 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 1: is prosecuted, Andre is going to speak in court, and 565 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: he's going to speak through his injuries. This is you know, 566 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: you you'll have, as dearly pointed out just a moment ago, 567 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,919 Speaker 1: he was struck multiple times. And unlike a firearm, when 568 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: you use a car to facilitate something like that, each 569 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 1: one of these contacts leaves a specific type of evidence 570 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: relative to an individual's body, and so you'll have a 571 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 1: bumper mark. Remember he was they described being him having 572 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: been clipped initially, which essentially knocked him to the ground 573 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: by the bumper and will find on his body what's 574 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: referred to as a bumper mark. It's this a braided area, 575 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: and then the attorneys will be able to tell the 576 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: story through the forensic mythologists and what he went through. 577 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: Because I suspect that this isn't just blunt forced trauma, Nancy. 578 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: I suspect that this there is a compression element that 579 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: is involved in this, where there was an asphyxial event 580 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: that occurred. Are you trying to say it couldn't breathe Yeah, yeah, 581 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: his chest couldn't rise and fall because he can't take it. 582 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: I can't take it. I can't take it anymore. I 583 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: have to go. I can't tell you. I can't miss Sanders. 584 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: I understand. Please Jackie let her go because this is 585 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: too much for her. I mean, doctor Angie, did you 586 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: hear that the mother can't even stand to hear these 587 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: facts about her son. This is a disorder that this 588 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: girl had. But it is not insanity. You told me. 589 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: It's some type of disorder. Yes, there's actually a name 590 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: for us. It's called obsessive love disorder. And everything about 591 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 1: this woman projects this disorder to me. Now I hear 592 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: you're saying disorder and on the street from me, regular 593 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: vernacular disorder measures you're ill. This girl is not ill. 594 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: She's angry, and yes she's obsessed. But that is not 595 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 1: a defense, doctor Angie Arnold. No, I am not saying 596 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: it's a defense. But I'll tell you something, Nancy. The 597 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: reason I bring it up is because if other people 598 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: know the signs of things like this that they can 599 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: look out for in someone that is perhaps m glomming 600 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: onto their child and trying to make a relationship with 601 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: that child. People need to be able to look out 602 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,919 Speaker 1: for these signs and symptoms. And I think that that's 603 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: a I think that that's something else that we bring 604 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: to this, to what you do on this, Okay, Nancy, 605 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: I want people besides me to know the signs and 606 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,879 Speaker 1: symptoms of something like this so they can look for it. Right. 607 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: What give me some signs and symptoms? Okay. Some of 608 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: the symptoms can include, you have an overwhelming attraction to 609 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: one person. Okay, then you start to have obsessive thoughts 610 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 1: about that person. You may feel the need to protect 611 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,919 Speaker 1: the person that you're in love with, Okay. You also 612 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: become very possessive of them, extreme jealousy over any kind 613 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: of other interpersonal interactions that they have, and typically the 614 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: person with this disorder actually has a very low self esteem. Okay, 615 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: you'll see them. You'll see them sending repeated texts and 616 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: emails and phone calls. They have a constant need for reassurance. 617 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: They have a hard time maintaining friendships with other people 618 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: because of their obsession with this one person. So you said, 619 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: we heard in this that they had been together for 620 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: three years, and something that really struck me was that 621 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: the mother didn't really know her very well. She had 622 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: only met her like three times. You and I both 623 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 1: know that if someone were in one of our children's 624 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: lives for three years, we would know everything about that person, 625 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't we. Yeah, I was just saying, I know the 626 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: twins play dates better than that exactly. There is no 627 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 1: way we would be able to say, oh, I've only 628 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: seen that person once a year in the last three 629 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,840 Speaker 1: years for my loved one. Oh heck no. Okay, doctor Angie, 630 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,919 Speaker 1: You're still going to hook up with miss Sanders after 631 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 1: we get off the air, right, Yes, I am. I've 632 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: got some great advice for her. Okay, guys, there is 633 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: a go fund me for andre A. Smith. There is 634 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: a go fund me. If you want to know more 635 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: about that, go to crime online dot com. Back to 636 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: Richard Essex, wish wish TV. Where does it stand now? 637 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: Please tell me? This is graduated from a vehicular homicide 638 00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: to murder one and I understand that Indiana is a 639 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: death penalty state. The prosecutor has filed a murder charge 640 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 1: a felony against her, and we don't see this very 641 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: often where the prosecutor in this county particularly acts so 642 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: quickly and so decisively, I think he will bring out 643 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: all guns. So to speak. Hey, darn well better, Richard Essex. 644 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,919 Speaker 1: I'm going to be about three inches up his rear 645 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: end because Daryl Cohen A lot of times. You know 646 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 1: this as well as I do. Prosecutors won't seek the 647 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: DP on a female because they know they probably won't 648 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: get it statistically. But I mean, you track somebody down 649 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: like a bunny rabbit and then wait outside late in wait, 650 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: then run them over three times. Oh h, double l H. 651 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: Even if they don't get the DP. This is the 652 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: case that the DP was meant for. I guess you 653 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: want to fight with me about that. No, I do not. 654 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: This is definitely a des penalty gayst But on the 655 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: other hand, Nancy, I hope she gets it, and I 656 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: hope the appeals go on forever. So every minute of 657 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: every day that she's still alive, she is being punished 658 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: because the death penalty, unfortunately it is over. But until 659 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 1: it's over, let her be punished. No, I'm not fighting 660 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: with you on this one. I'm telling you. When I 661 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: heard miss Sanders have to get have to leave our 662 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: program because she could not take it. When Joe Scott 663 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: said his lungs were compressed, this woman needs to go 664 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 1: down for a lot more than vehicular homicidel like this 665 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: was an accident. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace 666 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: comes story, signing off goodbye.