WEBVTT - The Lazarus List 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:06.280 Woking our trillions. 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:11.600 I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchunis. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:13.960 Eric. One thing that you and I both love this 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:17.200 time of year is doing a Halloween themed episode. We've 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.200 done like ETF graveyards before, but then we started kicking 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.800 this idea around and you had maybe the best one yet. 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.920 Yeah, so we have this phrase. 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.520 We use the team called the Lazarus List, which is 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:33.680 obviously the guy in the Bible who Jesus resurrected, and 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.680 this is could We argued we could have done this 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:41.000 on Easter, but because it does involve ETFs that have 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.840 been deceased. And then somebody else comes along and says, hey, 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:48.920 I think I can make this work. Even though it 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:53.760 failed for this issuer, somebody tries it again and they 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.200 sort of resurrect the idea put it back in the market. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.360 There's even been cases where it's been tried two or 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.440 three times and every now and then and it's like 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.480 the third Times of Charm situation. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.639 At first if you don't succeed, dry again. 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.720 Yeah, And so we just kind of find this a 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.640 quirky little wing of the ETF world when people look 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.720 at something that didn't work and have the I guess 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.000 vision or gumption to think I can make this work. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.720 To walk us through this version of the ETF graveyard, 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.320 We're going to be joined by Bloomberg Intelligence ETF analysts 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:32.920 Sarah Vegas, this time on trillions. The Lazarus List, Athanasios, 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:33.800 Welcome back to Trillians. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:35.000 Glad to be back. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.920 Okay, so you have put together a little bit of 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.840 a list. These ETFs were ones that died went to 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.720 the ETF graveyard, only they weren't dead yet. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.600 No, And I think that speaks to where we are 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:51.680 in the ETF market. 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:51.920 Right. 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.400 There's there's a good idea out there, and it maybe 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:56.680 really was a good idea. Maybe maybe the timing wasn't 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:57.080 quite right. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.000 Yeah, exactly, and we're back to like recycling ideas. Right, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.360 a lot of stuff's been tested that they're like, hey, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.320 you know what, this may be closed too soon, or 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.960 you know, we maybe could give it another shot or 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.360 rebrand it through a different you know, or maybe. 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.000 Or maybe it really wasn't meant to live, right, So yeah, 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.040 I mean that's be fair point. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.440 Maybe these might close again. If you close twice, that's 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.960 a tough pill to swallow, I think, right, if you 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:20.280 try two times. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.200 Okay, so what's the first one that you think embodies 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:23.720 this idea. 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.960 Let's start with probably something most recently. I Shares brought 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.079 back these target date ETFs. They tried this I think 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.040 it was twenty fourteen. So basically what this does is 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.160 like their asset allocation ETF, they hold a little bit 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:38.920 of everything, stocks, bonds. It's made to just be a 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:40.760 one stop shop. Hey, Eric, what it's one of the 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:42.040 tickers for this. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.600 So one of them, jol is it D This is 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.200 the I Shares life path target date twenty four five 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.519 twenty forty five ETF. So the twenty forty five would 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.919 be the year that you're supposed to retire, So as 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.839 a gener exer like myself, that would be where I'm 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.040 aiming for. Hopefully all will be retired even before then 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:57.760 if I'm lucky. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.240 But this is designed to. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.320 Be in all equities early on and then slowly shift 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.799 to some portion of fixed income. I believe right now 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.720 this one is I want to say, eighty five to 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.239 ninety percent equity still and forty percent is international. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:15.120 So look, this is like. 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.600 You've actually brought this up in occasional episodes. You're like, 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:21.240 why isn't there an ETF that just does everything. Well, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.480 this is kind of it. It uses other I shares 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:25.640 ETFs to give you, like what would be a complete 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.880 portfolio that an advisor would set up with you using 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.520 many puzzle pieces. This one does it in one shot 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.920 and it moves as you get closer to retirement. So 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.920 these are very popular in four to one K plans, 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.760 but they failed almost all the time in the ETF 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.400 world because again, advisors are the main customers of ETFs, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.520 and advisors, to quote George W. Bush, want to be 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:49.040 the deciders. They want to pick which funds you go into. 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.240 They can't have one fund and show the client that 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.840 you're in one ticker and the tick clients, why do 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.240 I need you? And so this is why this idea 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.040 has failed in the past, but I shares resurrecting it 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.080 is interesting, but that's what these ETFs are. There's I 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.600 think six to eight of them for the different retirement years. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.600 So they bit the dust. What happened? 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:10.720 It's a fair question. I think they were a little 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.960 ahead of their time. Remember like twenty fourteen ETFs weren't 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.159 you know all the rage that they are now and 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.239 they've been they're really trying to go after like clients 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.360 that don't have four to one K plans, because these 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:25.200 are pretty popular options in those kind of instructures. So 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.360 I think the market is a much more mature place, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.240 people more comfortable with ETFs. Again to xpoint, I don't 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:31.599 know if they're gonna have a ton of success, but 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.520 I think they might have a better go at it 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.480 than they did in twenty fourteen. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.440 Yeah, and we had Blackrock on ETFIQ on a recent 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.919 show to talk about these, and they were saying that 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.640 the reason they're doing this isn't to hit advisors or 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.960 the four to one k market, but to go after 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.560 the fifty percent of people who do not have exposure 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.239 to equities. They feel like this is a very easy 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.360 way to reach them, and they're trying to do a 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.200 little bit of God's work here, Joel, to try to 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.480 get those people invested. And I would say this is 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.320 not being take advantage of. Honestly, there's so many things 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:06.960 you can invest in if you don't know a lot 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.800 about investments that are like bad, but this is like 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.919 these charge eleven basis points and they're in very solid 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.720 I shares ETFs. They usually pick the cheaper ones. It 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:21.320 makes sense Honestly, Joel, if the government really wanted to 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.160 clear the wealth gap, they would actually put every person 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.640 in one of these when they are born and then 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.680 make them, like, you know, pass some financial literacy tests 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.120 and then you get the account when you're eighteen or 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.479 something like that. Not saying to put them all in 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.159 black rock, but something like this would make a lot 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.640 of sense as something you get when you're born, versus 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.960 say a social security system. So I think these are 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:49.640 interesting in that regard, in that they are going after 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.400 the fifty percent that don't have any exposure to the markets. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.479 Okay, Athanasios, give me one that surprised you. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.080 Another pretty recent one, luxury goods. This has been tried 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.800 in the past. I think it was Roundhill that just 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.080 brought it back. And if you look at the performance 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.320 of luxury goods, it's really it's done like phenomenal. And 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.400 I think it was rich people like to buy fancy 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.840 stuff and it seems pretty it doesn't get impacted by 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:18.640 the economy, right. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:19.760 Like recession proof everything. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.120 Yeah, and I think it was Louis Vaton was at 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.560 one point like hit the highest market cap ever for 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.160 European company, So that one's an interesting idea. It might 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.039 be too niche I think for it to get quite 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:32.960 a bit of assets, but the performance is really strong. 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.719 If there's one area outside the US. You know, we 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.680 tend to be very US focused. This one seemed to 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.960 do pretty well. I don't know if the performance will 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.479 be enough to get people enticed to invest in it, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.960 but I think it's a pretty interesting idea that gets overlooked. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.120 Eric, what's the ticker on? 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.400 So there's actually two. There's l u X and l 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.640 u x X, So two people have tried to resurrect this. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.159 They're both in the market, both not that big. I'll 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:58.560 give you some of the holding's stroll. I mean, these 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.080 are some of your favorite brands, Hermes ferrari A mens 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:08.040 eric a me is it? Yeah? No, I'm from the 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:12.520 other side of the tracks for sure. S They Lauder Royal, 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:20.360 Caribbean Cruises, Las Vegas, Sands, Williams and Sonoma, Toll Brothers. 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:20.960 That's interesting. 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:25.640 That's like a home builders, Win Resorts, Hennessy, Louis Vatan. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.680 So yeah, I mean you read through these names. 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.480 How does that compare with the other one? 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.240 Very similar, These have a lot of overlap. The one 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.640 difference is l U X. The one with only one 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.720 X is more concentrated, so it should have more volatility, 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.360 which can be good and bad. LUXX has more holdings, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.480 and if you look at the assets, both are under 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.680 ten million, which is you know, borderline life support area. 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.440 So I don't know if they've really been able to 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.040 resurrect this successfully. These two could end up right back 0:07:58.080 --> 0:07:59.960 in the same place if I'm being honest. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.880 Okay, we talked about some ones that have had some 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.080 difficulties walking through the graveyard, where there's maybe one that 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.400 hasn't had such a hard time. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.280 This would be one of the darlings of COVID during 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:13.800 that time. And its jets. 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:15.440 Yeah, I remember this one. 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.760 Yeah, the airline ETF. It's been tried, like I think 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:24.160 two issuers had an airline ETF direction and Googenheim was it, 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.640 and now this is US Global Investors brought that back 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.720 and it's one of the at one point is like 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.120 one of the one of the fastest growing ETFs. You know, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.200 it was during COVID when airlines stopped and the trade 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.760 started coming back and everyone started plying back into jets 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:40.640 hit a couple of billion I think at one point. 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.000 But that's one that had been resurrected and had done 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.720 quite well in its second life. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.280 Yeah, Joel, there were two airlines ETF FAA, which had 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.600 twenty million dollars and closed, and then fliy X, which 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.560 had two million in closed. So both of those were 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.280 in like the twenty ten to twenty fifteen era. And 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:07.600 then jets launches about seven years ago and it does 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.480 nothing for three or four years. It looks like the 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.599 luxury ETFs where there's like, oh my god, this is 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:15.440 going to go down, and then bam the pandemic ironically 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.240 because again who's flying during the pandemic. But the pandemic 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.960 really got this thing going, you know. Funny story. We 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.800 had the guy from Jets on ETFIQ the first iteration 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:26.880 of the show, and it was the last show before 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.959 they we went dark because of the COVID. And then 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.760 we had the Jets guy talking and I remember going 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.800 over the price to earnings ratio and I was like, 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.800 I just ran the numbers and besides Nigeria, your ETF 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:40.840 has the lowest price to earnings ratio. I think it 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.600 was like four, which is really low. I mean the 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.520 S and p's like twenty something. So and he was 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.240 making the case for it, and we were kind of 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.240 prescient because right after that, jets went up and now 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.640 one point three billion. It charges sixty basis points, So 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.200 they certainly are making a very profitable ETF here, even 0:09:58.200 --> 0:09:59.800 if it has come down a little bit from that, 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.480 you know, sort of peaked during the pandemic. 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:04.680 Found its moment. 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.440 Oh yeah, absolutely, it can't happen. 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.960 You know, what's the pie today? 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.880 It's still only ten, So like that's how that's how 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.560 like if you're at four, you can rally a lot 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.880 and still have even more to rally. That's how beat 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.200 up airlines were. Again, that's only half of the S 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:25.920 and P, and that's after a lot of rally. Although 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:27.920 it's come down a little bit. But I'll give you 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.800 some of the top holdings in this American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.920 Delta air Lines United. I mean, obviously I'm just going 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.160 through all the airlines here that everybody knows. But it's 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:41.600 even got stuff like Alaska Air Air Canada. So it 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.320 definitely goes a little deeper into some of the like 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.560 lesser known airlines. But I would say that almost all 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:48.840 of it is pure airline plays. 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:50.560 There's some other things in there that are. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.280 Related to the industry, but mostly it's it's airline holdings. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.360 Athanasias, you got another one for me, I do. Ironically enough, 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.280 this is another transportation one. I don't know why these 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:07.280 ones seem to keep. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.360 Them at after that, right, And and like you know, 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.080 if you're if you're looking for like a sector that 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.680 you can kind of hit on, like COVID made this 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:16.959 probably an interest especially interesting one. 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.640 Uh yeah, And this one also I think kind of 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:22.040 stems off of COVID and it's shipping. And this was 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.760 during remember there was like a supply chain crisis for 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:26.640 a while and the ships were just sitting out in 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.040 the in the ocean for a little bit. There was 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.400 one a shipping etf in the past. I think it 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:35.000 was Googleheimen that closed. Just there's a new one that 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.840 had come up. Boat again trying to go after the 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.360 shipping theme. Something that gets overlooked. I think people don't 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.840 don't give that one much thought. But this one hasn't 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.440 done anything yet. It's not a Jets story, but it's 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:48.160 definitely a whack. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.040 One to watch. Yep, Eric, when do you why do 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.079 you think this one hasn't taken off? Considering we all 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.560 became so aware of supply chain issues and global shipping. 0:11:59.040 --> 0:11:59.959 Yeah, this is a. 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.199 One of the most fascinating stories because C was around 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.600 for I don't know, ten twelve years, right, and nothing 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.320 really happened with it, and they closed up shop. And 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.520 I remember acutely following this rate. When C closed, shipping 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:18.040 went crazy. And if C was opened from the time 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:19.960 it closed, it would have gone up like one hundred 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.400 percent in like six months. 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.760 It literally had the right exposure, right idea, Yes, and 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.080 it just happened to like shut down a little too early. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.880 Like like literally a month or two too early. Every 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:32.720 now and then we see this. The Coal ETF also 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.760 did that, but after one hundred percent gain boat launches. 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.920 So between C barticular, I think boat overseas. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.360 I know I'm on a boat, is what I keep thinking. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:48.400 But certainly the different when C closed before Boat launched, 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.439 that's when the majority of the gains and these stocks happened. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.360 So Sonic Shares, which has the boat ETF, still has 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.600 twenty million, but it would be doing better if it 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.600 had launched ahead of that. These are sort of one 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.560 hundred percent gain that was missed by both ETFs. So 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.520 just a kind of unfortunate situation. But it was the one 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.920 hundred percent gain that I think caught the attention of 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.720 the Sonic Chairs people who thought, man, I you know, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.160 this category is up, this sector is up so much. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.040 Why isn't there an ETF. Oh, this one closed, let's 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.440 launch one. Takes seventy five days to get the ETF 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.559 to market, you know, added up, and you missed a 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.040 big chunk of the rally. And that's what happens A lot. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.679 A lot of people do not launch ETFs after a 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.520 rough patch. They usually launch them after the good patch, 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.760 when the area gets attention from the media. 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.520 That's why. Only on occasion is it something that launches 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:39.959 after a. 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.040 Really rough rough period, like the uranium miners, which I 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.520 tend to watch for those because a lot of times, 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.800 at least the ETF's ready for when the moment arrives, 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.600 as supposed to coming a little after the moment. But 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:50.920 that seems to be with the case. 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:51.320 With both. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:53.360 Athinasious. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:57.360 We got one more, probably the most famous one of all. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.000 Save the best for a last Yeah. 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.960 Rud Off, did you listen to Chris music? Already? 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.280 Not? Not yet? Too early. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.120 There is red involved. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.000 The Walmart is putting Christmas ads during the World Series 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.160 last night. I'm like, come on, man, it's not even Halloween. 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.680 You're gonna make those make those numbers early. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.040 But this one is XIV, the credit Swiss in Verse 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.920 VIX one. You know the volmaged in all. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:24.120 That twenty eighteen. 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.480 Yeah, everyone, you know it was a great trade. It 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.800 worked for a while and then it suddenly like one day, 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.120 like totally broken. Yeah, but that has you know, after 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.760 some review Bold two to shares brought back this product. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:38.479 The tickers s fix. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.080 Eric, what is different about it this time? 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.160 Yeah, So I'm gonna read this for beatam because it 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.160 is doing the same thing there had There had been 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:48.960 a bunch of product or some products that like did 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.800 half of what XIV did, like almost like a diet version. 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:53.680 This one does go all the way. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.440 It does short the short term futures, but it does 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.280 time weighted average price to set closing values rather than 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.800 the four pm VIC settlement price. I won't go into details, 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.320 but that is a little tiny tweak that should help 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.640 it from like a Volma Geden situation where XIV had 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.440 to close. But really it does the same thing. And 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.040 to go back to XIV and how spectacular both up 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.560 and down that was listen to these numbers. XIV went 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.360 up twenty four hundred percent since launching through twenty eighteen, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.000 so that's about seven years. It returned twenty four hundred percent, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.360 and then it went down ninety percent in like a 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.240 day and a half. So yeah, this was just like, 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.920 I don't know, some kind of supernova kind of situation 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.040 where it just exploded. But it made a lot of 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.400 money for a lot of people, and I think this 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.240 issuer was like, Hey, this is a product that should exist. 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.280 Let's make a couple of tweaks. Now, keep in mind 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.360 they also launched a double leverage one, which is again 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.120 like another new t VIX which also went down in 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.280 a blazing glory. This one is eighty six million dollars 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.240 and you've has one hundred and fifty million, so and 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.000 this issue charges a high fee for both, so they're 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.240 both profitable already, so they're going to be around for 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.760 the foreseeable future. But again for investors out there, anything 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.760 related to the VIX is immediately rated R. It's like 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.320 going to a rated R movie. I really would look 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.080 to see why it's rated R. In our case, this 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.560 is rolling VIX futures. When it's XIV. It's the equivalent 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.640 of selling insurance like hurricane insurance. You get the premium 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.400 and that's nice, but when a hurricane hits, you're on 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.800 the hook. And that's essentially what happened with XIV. There 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.640 was just no hurricanes for a long time, and then 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.160 bam there was a massive one, like a Andrew type 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.880 hurricane called Vahmageddon. And so right now you know, obviously 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.000 with lowvall you'll make more money in uvix, and then 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.320 when the hurricane hits, that's when t VIX goes up 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.520 and spikes. So again, these are very power tool type products. 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.800 I'd be very careful with them if you're listening at home. 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.920 But yeah, they're back on the market, resurrected Lazarus style. 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.960 Okay, I want to ask, is there one that when 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.400 down that hasn't come back that you're like, oh, this 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:04.000 is this is when to watch. 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.199 I mean there's a lot. I would bring back the 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.240 coal one, so if you have the superpower. Yeah, there's 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.600 a whole lineup from Bannack Coal Frack that I think 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.680 got closed during this whole ESG craze, right, and now 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.040 that story's being unwound a little bit, so I feel 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.120 like they were unfairly criticized and closed during that time, 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.120 so I feel like they should get like a get 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:27.920 out of jail free card and be able to come back. 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:29.920 So that's one i'd probably bring back. And I think 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:31.400 it's I think it's a good trade. I think it's 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.920 a it's pretty it's it's a pretty unique exposure. 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.480 Eric. When you're walking around around the graveyard, which one 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:37.399 went too soon for you? 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.160 For some reason, For some reason, I just immediately think 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.919 of the fishing ETF. But that's just because I love fishing. 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.520 It has nothing to do with the performance. I just 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:50.639 I just think the world's a better place with an 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.399 ETF with fishing in the name. I just makes you 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.600 think of going out there on the sea and fishing. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.520 This thing launched fish at the beginning of the financial crisis. 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.320 I think it just had a bad timing. 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.840 Okay, wait, wait, I know that is nostalgic or something. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.639 I don't know what that was, but now give us 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:10.320 a real one. Okay. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.680 There was an ETF called the Short Squeeze ETF s 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.520 q ZZ I think was the ticker, and it was 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.320 an interesting product. It closed rate before all the game 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.399 stop stuff where every stock that had a lot of 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.280 high shorts in it was getting bought by the quote 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.200 apes and the Reddit crowd, and it honestly, if it 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.960 were around, it would have killed it during the Game 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.600 stop era because all the stocks that were heavily shorted 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.080 were being bought like crazy to try to create a 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:38.919 short squeeze. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.239 I think it's like a third example of one that 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.840 closed like just when it's time was like it. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.119 I know, we were actually trying to think of a 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:48.919 term for that, where it's almost like you leave the 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.760 movie right before like the exciting part, Like it's like, 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:53.920 oh man, if you waited like two more minutes, you 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:54.800 would have caught it. 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:55.960 You would have been fine. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.760 Misconnection, I think that was what I mean, Yeah. 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:00.320 Misk connection. 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.919 But the short squeeze ETF would have been perfect for 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.520 that era. But I do believe that in certain cases 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.600 short squeeze, like in certain markets, those stocks that are 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.080 heavily shorted, besides the sort of like Reddit crowd, can 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.000 be a valuable tool for certain investors tool set. So 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.360