WEBVTT - The Great Divide: Why Some Fear, Others Ignore Climate Change 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.040 I'm Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch It on 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.200 the B n OF podcast. Today, Mark Taylor and I 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:09.680 speak with Hugh Bromley about several recent surveys which tell 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.600 us about how people perceive climate change and whether they 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.360 see it as a top risk. Where are the divisions 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.919 and do they differ by country, age, level of education, 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.560 or political affiliation. Hugh, who covers consumer issues for us 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.040 at B and e F, is going to speak with 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:26.400 us today about the data that tells us some of 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.400 the answers to these questions. And he analyzed this data 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:33.000 in one of our recent consumer radar report series titled 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.040 What Divides and Unites on Climate Action and Awareness. If 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.000 you'd like to read it, you can find it on 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.720 the Bloomberg terminal at benof Go or on BNF dot com. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.640 Quick reminder, B and e F does not provide investment 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.000 or strategy advice, and we've got a full disclaimer at 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:49.559 the end of the show. But now Mark and I 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:59.480 are going to talk to you, Hugh. Thanks for joining 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.400 us today. Thanks. Then it's graduated back, so let's start 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.040 off the show today with you explaining what it is 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:06.720 that you do for bn e F because you have 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.000 a bit of a unique role and write research that 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.040 you know you wouldn't necessarily typically associate with us. Yeah, 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:14.959 I suppose that's right. It's maybe a function that people 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.720 aren't even aware that exists within Bloomberginne f my role, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.680 who's really to think about the consumers and how consumers 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:22.759 interact with the technology and the sectors that we care 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.760 care about the transport, energy, and climent sustainability. So it 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.840 really that's thinking about consumer behavior and demographics and who's 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.840 buying the gadgets that we care about, that vendor strategy 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:34.160 and how do you sell to consumers one of the 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:38.720 more successful strategies there, and finally outcomes how consumes interacting 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.319 and driving outcomes in these sectors. My backgrounds have been 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.000 being with being there for a number of years now. 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:47.240 I've sat within many of these technology teams. Covering the 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.360 technology is how you know, covering the companies that are 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.800 selling these technologies. Now certainly the other side of that 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.120 thinking about you know, what are the consumers looking for 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.800 here and how are they driving the outcomes? So today 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.000 the title of the note is well, in addition to 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.080 being part of our Humor Radar series, what divides and 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.200 unites us on climate action and awareness. So where do 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.720 you get that sort of information? What sort of data 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.160 are you calling upon? Yes, so the Consumer RATAR something 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.280 we made putting out for over a year now. It's 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.120 a quarterly series and we're drawing heavily on third party 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.520 surveys through out there to get an understanding and kind 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.120 of monitor opinions that are shaping the energy sector and 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.919 transport sector. We're trying to get some leading indicators of 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.280 customer preferences and social consensus that might be changing across 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:30.760 the energy, transport and climate. The reason for that is 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.880 twofold one. Those indicators of where sales might occur in 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.600 the future are really important. You know, BNF always is 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.800 a great job tracking where sales are occurring or have occurred, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:41.760 But I'm looking for the leading indicators who's going to 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.320 buy next, what demographics, what region is going to buy next? 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.560 And secondly, it kind of helps us get an understanding 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.240 of consumer or voter priorities and mandates. And this becomes 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.600 really important when you think about kind of as ambition 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:59.079 to decarbonize increases amongst many nations corporations, then role of 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.000 consumers become was far more involved you know, households are 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.679 responsible for something like three quarters of a global g 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.600 h D emissions when you think that all the value 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.880 changes that they rely upon. At the end of the day, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.200 there there is an consumer. There, there's a household or 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.639 a consumer, and they are ultimately making the decisions that 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.640 will affect you know, whether these net zero and deep 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.240 decolganization targets are achievable or indeed, if they give their 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.200 governments a mandate to go and set targets in the 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.000 first place, these decisions seem to be based you know, 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:29.960 and what people buy seem to be based on their 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:34.160 beliefs right where their their perceptions of climate and sustainability. 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.960 I guess can you kind of walk us through some 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.440 of the key findings from the report that relate to that. Yes, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.720 so data emasion before inat report tends to have a theme, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.320 and this particular report looked at kind of what divides 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.000 the units and climate action. So rather than just thinking 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.000 about where are people most engaged on a climate where 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.280 are we seeing greater support and mandate for government action, 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:57.120 which I tried to this time, think about, well what 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.840 separates them? Why are they're still people pushing back against 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:02.160 the who is that. So we looked across across a 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.520 number of surveys published in the last quarter and thought about, well, demographically, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:11.000 whereas their division between different stakeholders, and then where there's 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.800 not a demographic division, can it be explained by politics. 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.960 We looked at things like whether there's a generational divide 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:21.120 and educational divide and different opinion between genders, and and 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.320 it's kind of universally those things are true. You know, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.880 the younger people are more engaged on climate than older people, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.359 more educated, people with post secondary education are more engaged, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.400 more likely to believe that the climate change is an 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.200 emergency than people without a secondary education and interested. The 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.160 general is a little bit more complicated, but you know, 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.760 in in middle income countries, men are far more likely 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.880 to believe the climate changes the emergency than women, and 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.440 in hiring income countries the opposite is true. Women are 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.400 more likely to agree. But there are some universal law, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.240 almost universal rules, they're that kind of are worth teasing 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.400 out and understanding of why this is shaping belief and opinions. Well, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.200 so let's talk about what of the study that you 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.159 called upon in this report in a little more details. 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.480 So one of them was the World Economic Forums Global 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.280 Risk Report, and it's their one edition. Unfortunately those of 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.120 you guys listening can't see it, but let's talk you 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.359 through what's on there. I think there were some themes 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:17.039 that really emerged. So it evaluated risks well, perception of impacts, 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:21.680 on likelihood of global risk and broken down by economic, environmental, geopolitical, societal, 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.279 and technological and what sorts of trends did you see 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:27.760 regarding what things I mean, I guess to put it 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.880 really bluntly, what things people are actually care about right now? Well, 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.560 it's an interesting surver. This is survey conducted at the 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.440 end of published in January one. Everyone's coming out of 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:41.120 this really horrible year, where like clearly in the pandemic 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.480 is going to be front of mine, and yet climate 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:46.400 action failure is still ranked as the highest global risk, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.800 the most significant global risk in this survey. Now, yes, 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.680 they rated infectious diseases as having the highest impact, climaction 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.040 failure having the second highest impact, and they rated extreme 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.200 weather as having the highest likelihood, climate changing the second 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.000 highest likelihood. But across the board you saw all these 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:08.440 kind of climate related themes climate action and failure, environmental damage, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.920 bio diversity, lost extreme weather all ranked very highly. In fact, 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.719 you in the top five places. You see the majority 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.279 of those spots are filled up by climate related issues. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:20.880 Was there anything that surprised you in particular about this 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.440 report here? You know, a lot of things have fallen 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.919 from front of mind, you know, things around terrorist attacks 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.919 and technological concerns and risk that people that was very 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:30.520 much front of mine kind of a year or two 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.680 have really slipped away. Climate changes really hung in there. 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.360 It's placed in the top five most impactful risk and 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.000 top five most most likely since whilst all these other 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:42.720 issues are kind of coming gone. Do you think it 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.000 will help to call it something else? So? Yeah, I 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.440 think calling something else is something that we've kind of 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.800 picked up on a number of surveys over the last year. 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.600 Is there's certain labels that the consumers absolutely resiant. Green 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:55.000 New Deal is one of them that just has a 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.240 really low support regardless of what it contains. Right now, 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.760 Infrastructure seems to do better certainly across the board, and 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.920 anything to do with sustainability. Certainly a lot of misunderstanding 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.200 or misconceptions with consumers that are unable to differentiate between 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.480 climate change issues and broader environmental topics around recycling and sustainability, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.200 they really conflate the two things. So the more that 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.240 you know a policy making can almost leverage that misconception 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.600 in some ways, and past climate policies that are part 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.640 of a broader sustainability package or or infrastructure package better. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.480 The other thing we saw really high support levels for 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.560 in in some more recent surveys and one published by 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.440 Morning Console, was support amongst both Republicans and Democrats to 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.160 require public companies to disclose those climate res So there 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.600 is kind of a little bit of appetite their regulation 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.840 around reporting. Not necessarily for action, but you know, it's 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:49.840 a starting point just to to get some days to 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:51.760 get the data into that those decisions can be made 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.480 down the track. Can I say kind of after will question, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.280 do you think this stuff matters? I mean, like, one 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.560 way I've always looked at renewable energy and maybe they're 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.360 showing my cards too much to the to the public, 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.200 is that one benefit of it is if you just 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.720 make the energy green, people don't necessarily have to think 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.520 about it so much when they turn on their light switch. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.280 So if you put an infrastructure deal through and you 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.360 green things and you make things more sustainable, you let 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.320 the public go on living as they were, and things 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.440 just get greener and more sustainable. So does public opinion 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.920 matter as much or are they actually the ones? You know? 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:27.800 Are they going to vote people out for doing an 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.640 infrastructure bill and things like that. So there's two pieces 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.000 that I think kind of up until now or maybe 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.000 in the near future, that kind of thought process does hold. 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.400 But the moment you start to plan and go about 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:44.400 implementing a path toward zero, it gets much more complicated. Yes, 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.120 you can decarbonize the infrastructure that supplies consumers, but really 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:49.920 it's unlikely to get you far enough, and you need 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.640 to start thinking about how can you decarbonize the technologies 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.480 of the consumers use themselves, or even better, how do 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:59.000 you change consumers behavior. So in two of those three scenarios, 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.560 and likely you'll need to implement all three, you really 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.400 do need consumers on board. And the second part of 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.720 it is that consumers aren't just there to use energy. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:08.920 They're also better put governments in place and said about 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.320 their political priorities. So if consumers don't understand and don't 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.160 drive the policies, then you know, be forever in this 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:19.000 situation where policy makers where I'm sitting in Australia or 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:21.240 you know, across the U S. And other countries are 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.000 able to kind of, you know, see this really partisan division. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.520 What we can see is climate change remains at outwege 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:30.200 issue in those countries. Within a Pew Research Center study 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:31.920 that you called the Pine, just staying with the US 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.760 for a moment longer, you saw some demographic leans in 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:40.679 terms of Republican versus Democrat, and you didn't see too much. 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.640 I mean, you start a breakdown between male and female, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.599 but where you really saw differences were in age and 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.640 in race. What were some of the findings that we 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.920 had in the regard It's interesting because you do see 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.240 a division between race. It's fifty percentage points difference between 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.040 the white population believes that dealing with climate change a 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.760 priority versus you know, this is the Hispanic community, where 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.439 the white look Caucasian community is a much lower percentage 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.160 you believe that similar thing with age, you see that 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.880 your younger people more likely to see that as a priority. 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.040 For this year, eighteen nine year olds is just two 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.840 of fifty to sixty four year olds and a little 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:20.840 bit of a gender divide, you know, six percent men 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.160 at thirty five percent. Women at forty one percent believe 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.720 in climate change an issue. And we already said before 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.560 that in that separate global pole produced by the UN 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.160 d P, the US was really low in terms of 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.559 division on education. Just having a post secondary education just 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.240 makes you just one percent more likely to believe the 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.280 climate change of emergency than if you don't have that 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.640 post secondary education. So the US is, you know, there's 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.880 there's divisions in some ways, but all of this this 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.760 is really dwarfed by the partisan division forty four percent 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:52.000 divide between Republicans and Democrats in saying the president's priority 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.160 of this president in Congress to deal with climate change 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:59.360 this year. Now for a very short break, stay with us. Well, 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.360 so let's of the US for a moment, although we're 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.559 going to come back and I think specifically around some 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.000 of the events and recently regarding the cold snap in 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.959 Texas and that how may change people's views in the 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.400 United States. But let's go all the way to the 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.360 other side of the world and let's look at Japan. 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:18.319 So there was a japan awareness survey of eighteen year olds. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.079 Now you may have noticed in the news recently the 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.520 Japanese government has made a carbon neutral by fifty pledge 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.080 along with the number of other countries in the world. Actually, 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.839 what's really interesting here is around whether or not the 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.880 eighteen year olds actually believe it's going to happen. So 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.600 what did we learn. It's industry survey. It's a server 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.600 that the Nippon Foundation does every year of a Japanese 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.599 eighteen year old and always as a theme, and this 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.640 year's theme was around global warming and climate change. And 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.400 what it found is that, you know, the eighteen year 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.280 old understandably support that pledge. You know, sixt eighteen of 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.560 Japanese eighteen year old support that pledge to be carbon 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.400 neutral by But what's amazing is the only fourteen percent 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.280 of them believe it will actually be achieved by There's 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.360 a real belief that pledges not achievable certainly on that timeline. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.760 And even more so, there's a willingness in amongst Japanese culture, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.600 in Japanese youth culture, just to just say I don't 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.280 know respondents, and I don't know whether that will be 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.679 met by. And we also dug a little deeper because 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.800 Japan in the UNDP Global Survey was the country that 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.920 stood out as having the lowest demographic division between young 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.679 and old, between different education levels, and between genders. And 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.360 then how about the older population, of which is I 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.480 believe the majority of the population in Japan. Yeah, well, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.000 that's thoughts strange, right. We ever see other surveys across 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.400 the world whether the older population is more skeptical of 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.959 climate chains or see as less of a risk and 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.760 certainly see less need to act upon it. But in 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.079 Japan the total opposite is true. So if you look 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.719 at belief that I see sales can be phased out 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.760 by the mid twenty thirties amongst the older Japanese are 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.920 here of talking seventy plus, it's twelve percent of the 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.559 older Japanese belief that target is definitely achievable, and over 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.880 a third believe it is may be not achieved by 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.440 the mid twenty thirties, but but achieved very soon thereafter. 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.000 So you've got quite a significant gap to all compared 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.920 to young Japanese adults. I think this is an interesting 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.640 one because you look at the source of this data, 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:17.079 and it's actually the Japan Automobile Federation, so they have 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.800 a vested interest in understanding how people feel about internal 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:24.920 combustion engines versus electric vehicles. So it's it's always interesting 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.040 to see, you know, who's digging a little bit deeper 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.440 on each of these questions. It is, and it's such 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.800 a counterintuitive result that I I dug a little deeper 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.240 myself and I approached our our team in Tokyo and 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:36.959 to kind of understand what what could be driving this 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.280 sort of result when we tossed a few ideas back 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.920 to the forward. But one thing that really stood out 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.920 is that thinking about this generation of of older Japanese, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.439 the change that they have seen a witness in their lifetime. 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.839 They have certainly seen dramatic economic change within Japan and 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.280 the emergence of Japan as as a technology powerhouse. And 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:58.679 then secondly they also suffered through a number of industrial 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.160 waste crisis in the nine in fifties and sixties that 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.360 resulted a number of health crises that would have shaped 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.559 you in many ways their views on the pace of 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.480 change and the need to change in response to environmental issues. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.319 And maybe that's something the Japanese youth, or at least 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.319 young adults kind of haven't experienced the witnessed is that 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.720 the key hue is it experiencing something related to climate 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.320 change as you mentioned this in Japan. It seems like 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.920 that's kind of what we've seen in China, although that's 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:29.240 not included in the in the study this time, but 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.200 could that be also what's happening in the US. Maybe 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.200 with Texas they had the cold snap and then all 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.840 of a sudden, Yeah, people maybe started teams of tune 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.920 on on climate and activity or action towards it. Experience 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.120 does seem to matter. So we we saw that in 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.480 this survey of Japanese or it's one way to explain that, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.080 so of Japanese consumers. You're right in China that we 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.520 also saw recalli belief in climate change and need for 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.000 action in Australia following the wildfires at the end of 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.760 and now we're starting to see data come out of 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.240 Texas UM and you're absolutely right. So there's no survey 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.520 unfortunately done before the cold snap in Texas that know 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.600 what what the starting positions were. What we see now 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.320 is that the surveys taken in the days following the polls, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.720 sixty percent of Texas Republicans believe it's now a priority 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.400 to pass legislation to address climate change, compared to forty 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.120 per cent of Republicans across the country, so quite a 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.440 divide there. So we didn't see the same movement in Democrats. 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:31.000 It's of Texas nationally. It is a huge jump. If 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:32.800 this could explain it. You could also say that, you know, 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:37.400 Texas Republicans have seen changes over the last decade or 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.200 more regarding the wind turbines that have been built across 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.200 across the state. But this this number is stark and 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.120 um and and the fact that it was taken just 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.800 after the storm suggestedly dealing with and and experiencing these 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.200 sorts of climate catastrophes really can shape your belief It's unclear, 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.120 and in fact, the surveys I alluded to before, past 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.920 experiences in China, the US, China, Australia have made maybe 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.640 even Japan kind of show this might not last forever, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.960 but in the immediate aftermath does seem that conservatives and 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.160 and and skeptics more broadly views can be changed as 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.280 a result of of of experience experiencing the effects of 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.720 climate change. But this is interesting that you point this 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.800 out because we're saying the effects of climate change, but 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.800 in reality, all of these are extreme weather events that 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.360 depending upon how you want to look at it, could 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.840 be linked to climate change have increased the probability of 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.160 these one in a hundred years one in a thousand 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:35.880 years storms, but there's no direct causal relationship that can 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:41.600 be unrefutedly connected. So the way that people look at 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.560 climate change but then experience it is actually through weather, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.560 and as we know, whether in climate are very different. 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:48.800 So I think one of the things that I find 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.040 really interesting is people experience these extreme weather events and 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.600 they say, don't want that to happen anymore. Could be 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.920 the climate change is the problem, and then they have 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.840 to figure out what the solution is. And you had 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.200 some interesting data points in here regarding views around whether 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:08.000 or not wind power specifically and solar could be a 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:09.879 part of the solution, whether or not that was a 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.520 direction that Texas was looking at. Even if these consumers 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.040 don't don't believe they can change the weather, they have 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.800 experienced blackouts, they've experienced some sort of lifestyle disruption, if 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.520 not trauma over the last few weeks as a result 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.160 of this, So they do need to start attributing blame 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.000 and even more so looking for solutions. One of the 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.000 other survey questions that was included in these boarding Console 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.439 polls was thinking about these solutions that Texans would support 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.520 as a result of these storms, and what we saw 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.080 was across the board generally pretty high support levels amongst 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.560 Republicans and Democrats, but certainly amongst Texas. Texas Republicans for 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:52.840 modernization of the power system, energy storage, energy efficiency, and 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:57.080 resiliency efforts really kind of nondescript, no brains, no massive 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.520 political divide attached to them. But when it into clean 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.480 energy and increasing the use of clean energy solars when 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.960 we started, we suddenly see this partisan rift re emerge 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.200 and we see that I'm fifty two percent of Republicans 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.479 across the country would support increased use of renewables. Yes, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.280 it's still a majority of Republicans, but a very slim majority. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.119 That number increases the sixty percent in Texas, so there 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.119 is a a an eight percent, a reasonable but not 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.639 overwhelming increase in the number of Texans that would support 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.840 clearly more additional clean energy. The contrast that with Democrats 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.960 at eighty seven and seven national ninety Texans Texas, so 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.240 a massive partisan divide there. I think really that comes 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:43.000 down to renewables being the wedge issue that climate changes 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.800 fought upon, which is really interesting and for those who 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.520 are not familiar with this extreme called staff that hit 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.480 you know, Texas and actually several surrounding states. We have 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.080 a podcast for that that we did right after the 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.520 storm happened that really explained the root causes in terms 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.280 of how the power structure has and one of the 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.600 things that came out very clearly was that the natural 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.719 gas pipelines had a potentially bigger role to play than 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.520 the wind industry did in terms of causing these power outages. 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.600 So it's it's very interesting to see the actual root 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.240 causes of the issue versus those things that are highly 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.320 politicized in terms of what ends up making people's decisions. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.159 Moving on, actually a little bit to what do we 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.680 do with this information? So if I'm listening to this 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.439 and I'm working potentially at a corporation thinking about how 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.800 people think and feel about different things regarding climate change 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.760 and how their business should potentially act. If I'm working 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.920 at maybe a let's go with a consumer discretionary brand 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.879 of sorts, what sorts of things would you look for 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.520 and would you take away from these sorts of studies 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.400 to help influence the way you run your business. One 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.760 thing I think that maybe all these poles kind of 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.560 suggested aggregate is that the pace of policy change and 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.800 consumers mandate ful policymakers too and at string of climate 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.760 measures is related to climate change itself, and there is 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.760 this feedback loop between the effects of climate change, whether 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.960 effects or climate effects, changing perceptions and resulting in stronger, 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.320 stronger push and strong and and tightening policy across the board. 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.879 And I think that's really it's really going to be 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.639 present in the massive economies that are that are highly 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.240 emitting and currently divisive, and that is the US, Russia, 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.960 and India. In these surveys, they're the countries that you 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.000 need to watch and watch for the effects of climate 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.399 change because it will shape public opinion and ultimately change 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.440 change change of climate policies that the corporations are bound by. Okay, 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:45.560 so Hugh, last question, what did you find most surprising 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.760