Speaker 1: Hi, there's Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Get the Money and Run. Over seven episodes, we're gonna
Speaker 1: learn how Joe Layer became one of California's most daring
Speaker 1: bank robbers. We're gonna hear about high speed getaways, a
Speaker 1: relentless FBI, about disguise's body doubles, and also about another
Speaker 1: side of Joe. Joe Layer is a soul searcher, a
Speaker 1: soul searching criminal, one of the most original criminals in
Speaker 1: true crime podcasts, and I listened to a lot of them.
Speaker 1: Today's episode First Time Out Remember to binge All seven
Speaker 1: episodes ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: Our host and creator is the Great Benedair, producer of
Speaker 1: shows like Lost Hill's, Ripple Pulse, The Untold Story. All
Speaker 1: right over to Ben?
Speaker 2: How much? How do you planned this all out in advance?
Speaker 2: But what did you know going into it? How are
Speaker 2: you going to go in? How are you going to
Speaker 2: get away?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: None?
Speaker 3: None?
Speaker 2: I mean you can't just rob a bank with no plan,
Speaker 2: can you?
Speaker 3: What I do remember about the day is this I
Speaker 3: started ten. I walked into the first bank, and I
Speaker 3: grab a slip and I write we have a bomb,
Speaker 3: just a bank cropper, and I wrote a bank rubbing
Speaker 3: note and then I'm like a fucking I don't want
Speaker 3: to do this year. For some reason, this doesn't feel right.
Speaker 3: So I start walking away and as I walk away,
Speaker 3: there's like three cameras on me at the door, and
Speaker 3: I realized, I think I could have been busted. Right
Speaker 3: if anyone just kind of like you know, zoomed in
Speaker 3: the guy who was writing something on the back of
Speaker 3: that slip, they could have seen I was trying to
Speaker 3: rob that bank. So I wrote my next one, next
Speaker 3: note at McDonald's, just run it there. And I would
Speaker 3: walk in the banks and I would leave them all
Speaker 3: day long, you know, Like I would walk in and
Speaker 3: I would stand in line, go a couple of steps up,
Speaker 3: A couple of customers would be going and I was like, nah,
Speaker 3: that I don't got a feel for this. I'd walk in,
Speaker 3: I'd see you know guards, Noah, God, I swear to
Speaker 3: God man. I probably nibbled a little bit of food
Speaker 3: from every fast food joint available at the time, KFC, Wendy's.
Speaker 3: If this was a short film, it would be a
Speaker 3: comic film because you would see me going in there, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. And the
Speaker 3: next thing, you see me drinking coffee at McDonald's. You
Speaker 3: see me, Okay, I'm gonna do it. I gonna be
Speaker 3: all fucking nerve you in there. The next scene, I'm
Speaker 3: biting the whopper at or like it would just be okay,
Speaker 3: let's do it, let's do it, Taco Bell, do it,
Speaker 3: let's do it, Wendy. It was like fucking hilarious.
Speaker 2: Where were you feeling inside?
Speaker 3: Fear? I was just like, at this point, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to jail, just standing in line thinking about robbing
Speaker 3: a bank. When I go do the next thing, this
Speaker 3: is the real thing. So I know that on the
Speaker 3: other side of this is a payoff, a big payoff,
Speaker 3: because when you run past your fear, then it cannot
Speaker 3: harass you anymore. On this side of it, it's a big, dark,
Speaker 3: menacing curtain and it's saying, try to come back here,
Speaker 3: see what the fuck's gonna happen, And you're like, I
Speaker 3: don't know if I want to open that curtain. Oh fuck.
Speaker 3: Once you open that curtain, that curtain fucking evaporates. There's
Speaker 3: no more curtain you could turn around like, where's that
Speaker 3: freaking curtain? It was menacing me. There's no curtain, And
Speaker 3: that's what you have to do. You have to push
Speaker 3: past your fear to get to the next level.
Speaker 2: Right now, walking in and out of these banks all
Speaker 2: day staring at that curtain.
Speaker 3: Oh, that curtain is just like taunting me, you fucking punk.
Speaker 3: And I knew that I had this in me where
Speaker 3: I could cough up a nutsck and do something if
Speaker 3: I need to do it now. All day I wasn't
Speaker 3: coughing up the nutsack all day, I was not calling
Speaker 3: up my courage. It would just go somewhere. We only
Speaker 3: get me so far, and then it would peter out.
Speaker 3: But it was like this point, I was like this,
Speaker 3: so we're doing it. We're doing it right now. Fuck
Speaker 3: all the bullshit, Let's go do this.
Speaker 2: Part one, first time out. Okay. So I'm sitting here
Speaker 2: in the studio. This has been adare and I'm sitting
Speaker 2: here in the studio with Joe Loya. Hi Joe Joe.
Speaker 2: Today you're wearing a sort of a black pullover shirt.
Speaker 2: You have got black glasses, silver goatee. You normally you
Speaker 2: have a City of Oakland baseball cap, right here on
Speaker 2: the chair next to you. How do you describe yourself
Speaker 2: to people?
Speaker 3: I say I'm fluffy. I mean, I don't say I'm fat,
Speaker 3: but I'm very heavy. I mean you're living, Yeah, living,
Speaker 3: I'm existing large.
Speaker 2: I don't know why to liver you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm I'm a thick man, Mexican man, dark skin,
Speaker 3: you know, in a.
Speaker 2: Late fifties, late fifties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, easy to say.
Speaker 2: I mean, looking at you now, you're charming. I don't
Speaker 2: think people would understand that you used to break school
Speaker 2: records and track.
Speaker 3: Though nobody's get into My friend Danny Diego Swan City, said, man,
Speaker 3: you look like you ate that guy I showed on
Speaker 3: the photo of me when I was eighteen years old.
Speaker 2: He says, man, you look like you ate that guy.
Speaker 2: I mean, which, that's what I look like. But let's
Speaker 2: get back into it. It's nineteen eighty four. You've never
Speaker 2: robbed a bank before. You've committed crimes, but mostly small stuff, fraud,
Speaker 2: stealing cars. Enough that has gotten the attention of the cops.
Speaker 2: You're wanted by police. So you've been hiding out in Tijuana. Uh,
Speaker 2: You've driven up to San Diego from Tijuana. You're in
Speaker 2: a stolen car, and you're walking in and out of
Speaker 2: banks all day. But now it's deadline time.
Speaker 3: HM. Okay, So finally four forty five, I gotta rob
Speaker 3: this bank. I know it. There's no getting around it.
Speaker 3: We're doing it right now. I don't have a choice.
Speaker 3: I stand in line, have my note and go to
Speaker 3: the line and say, how are you doing, sir? I said,
Speaker 3: I'm fine. How you doing is? I'm walking over Let
Speaker 3: everybody like see us, and then let not pay attention
Speaker 3: to us. And as I walk up there, I slide
Speaker 3: the note here, she puts it. I put it down
Speaker 3: on the table. I slide it to her. She looks
Speaker 3: down at it, and she reads it and reads it
Speaker 3: and reads like has plenty of time to have read it,
Speaker 3: turned it over, copied it, turned it back over, read
Speaker 3: it again, like too long. So I reached forward and
Speaker 3: I realized I got to get her attention. So I
Speaker 3: grabbed a note and I move it around a little bit,
Speaker 3: like hey, let's do something about this, And she still
Speaker 3: won't look up. So I had to pull the note
Speaker 3: away from her because I realized, oh shit, I've given
Speaker 3: her something to distract her. She does not want to
Speaker 3: look up. And she doesn't have to look up. So
Speaker 3: I tried to pull the note back, and she tries
Speaker 3: to pull the note to her. And when she's pulling
Speaker 3: the note, we're doing this a little bullshit war. Now
Speaker 3: I'm just fucking pissed. So I lean forward and say
Speaker 3: I'm not fucking around. I'll jump the counter. And I
Speaker 3: reached down like I got a gun, and I pat
Speaker 3: my waistband like I'm coming over. I will fuck you
Speaker 3: up for this bullshit stuff. And it was in that
Speaker 3: moment she looks up and just with my eyes I
Speaker 3: menace her. And then when she looked at me, she
Speaker 3: saw I was serious. She opened her drawer and just
Speaker 3: gave me the money. Now, I put on the table
Speaker 3: on the counter, I put a fanny pack. I start
Speaker 3: throwing the money in it, and then I tell her
Speaker 3: good I walk away.
Speaker 2: So then you get the money, you take the fanny
Speaker 2: you pick up the fanny.
Speaker 3: Pack, walk away with my family was zipping it up.
Speaker 3: I'm walking away like I just did banking. I'm not
Speaker 3: like running. I'm not like I just robbed the plane. Now,
Speaker 3: no energy other than you know, walk away. I turn
Speaker 3: around to walk out of the bank, like I'm a customer.
Speaker 3: Just finish my transaction. I get to the door, and
Speaker 3: before I can even walk out the door, somebody yells
Speaker 3: he robbed the bank. He dropped us. And so I
Speaker 3: start running, and I mean I run. I'm bending it over,
Speaker 3: driving my arms and I'm high stepping it, and I'm
Speaker 3: running to the far away. At the end of the block.
Speaker 3: I knew there was a trolley station a cab there,
Speaker 3: and I jumped into the cab, pulled away from these
Speaker 3: guys kept looking back and they were like in the beginning,
Speaker 3: they were chasing after me in earnest, and then they
Speaker 3: realized there's no catching me this this jack Rabbit's gone,
Speaker 3: gone gone. So get in the car, tell him to
Speaker 3: get me to Sanya Sidro. He drops me off on
Speaker 3: the other side of the freeway in Santa Cidro, and
Speaker 3: then I walk over a bridge to where I had
Speaker 3: my hotel room. So again inside my room, and obviously
Speaker 3: the first thing I'm excited to do is figure how
Speaker 3: much Monday. The guy looked like a lot of money,
Speaker 3: and so I start counting the money. I break up
Speaker 3: the twenties, the fifties, one hundreds of five. It's the
Speaker 3: ten is that I always did, and then I say, okay,
Speaker 3: that's count it because this looks good, and sure enough,
Speaker 3: forty five hundred dollars a man of glory felt glorious. Okay,
Speaker 3: so already when I was in college, I used to
Speaker 3: think I did this math and thought, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna get out of college. I'm gonna do four years.
Speaker 3: I'm going to be working through college because we don't
Speaker 3: have a lot of money. And when I get out,
Speaker 3: what do I think I might get start off at
Speaker 3: forty thousand dollars, maybe fifty if I'm lucky. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but I don't think that I'm going to make a
Speaker 3: lot of money, and then I'm gonna have to do
Speaker 3: that over a year of work. And one of the
Speaker 3: reasons I went into crime was I thought, no, a
Speaker 3: guy who has that kind of gumption, he should be
Speaker 3: getting paid buckets of money. I felt like, this, this
Speaker 3: is what my time is worth. So this money already
Speaker 3: felt so much better. It felt like I got it
Speaker 3: based on my wit, on my ferocity. I was getting
Speaker 3: paid for fucking heart. And also I love the cleanness
Speaker 3: of it. Like everyone's like, oh, okay, we're gonna go
Speaker 3: do this game where we exchange money all the time
Speaker 3: and life, and then we all die. Here I'm gonna
Speaker 3: get it. Here's a paycheck, and okay. Then here I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go buy food, and we're all exchanging money and
Speaker 3: then we die. And I felt like, man, we've been duped.
Speaker 3: This is no way to fucking live. But if we're
Speaker 3: gonna be having exchanges of money, let's make it this way. Hi,
Speaker 3: you have a lot of money, give me your fucking shit.
Speaker 3: Now it's my money. Buy Just give me the money.
Speaker 3: That's what I want by It's just clean, and it
Speaker 3: was fast, and it was commiserate to my time. That's great.
Speaker 3: I love getting four thousand, five thousand dollars for five
Speaker 3: minutes of work. I felt like that's I should be
Speaker 3: getting that every day of my life, every five minutes
Speaker 3: of my life. So I was happy. It was like,
Speaker 3: I don't have to be a petty criminal ever again.
Speaker 3: I never have to steal a snicker bar, a shirt,
Speaker 3: I never have to defraud anybody. I owe somebody fifty bucks,
Speaker 3: I get to give them fifty bucks. I get to
Speaker 3: be honorable now and in my life except for this
Speaker 3: one thing, because I'm a bank robber. Now, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: rob Banks. That's all I'm gonna do too too.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back Part two. Mama's Boy. Not to
Speaker 2: be out telling me about your mother. But what was
Speaker 2: life like for a young Joe growing up?
Speaker 3: Okay? So I was born in East Los Angeles, the
Speaker 3: old Matavia housing projects, back in those days. My parents
Speaker 3: were sixteen when I was born. My mother had just
Speaker 3: turned seventeen when I was born, and so my mother
Speaker 3: and dad found other. My mother was pregnant. They went
Speaker 3: to their parents and parents said, you're getting married. They
Speaker 3: were in tenth grade. Sid, You're getting married. And it
Speaker 3: was a loving home, cool, loving home. The love story
Speaker 3: that I was raised in with my parents, They've loved
Speaker 3: each other since twelve. Everyone loved them. I was raised
Speaker 3: in that love story. I was raised in the love.
Speaker 3: We went to church, and our church was our life
Speaker 3: at that time. I was raised with Bible stories. I
Speaker 3: was raised at church camps. I was raised pot lucks Man.
Speaker 3: I was raised in the church, and I was raised
Speaker 3: with a dad who wanted to be a preacher, and
Speaker 3: he had a love of language. He was he was
Speaker 3: very smart and he was devoted to learning. Everything was
Speaker 3: cool until seven. I turned seven, by that time, we'd
Speaker 3: moved out to People Rivera and my mother got sick
Speaker 3: as always. Man, this always gets me, man. I remember
Speaker 3: my mother got a job at the Sears tower over
Speaker 3: here on the Olympic. I don't even know if the
Speaker 3: Seers buildings still there, but there's be a big Sears
Speaker 3: building there, and she got in the typing pool because
Speaker 3: she apparently she was like she was a typing folio man.
Speaker 3: But what I remember about that is my dad would
Speaker 3: would go warm up the car. My dad would go
Speaker 3: warm up the car outside. This in the days when
Speaker 3: you weren't afraid someone was just gonna steal your car, right,
Speaker 3: you would go warm up the car, you know, turn
Speaker 3: the heater on in there cause it's cold. It was,
Speaker 3: you know, it's early morning, like three or four. Maybe
Speaker 3: it was it was four or five, who knows, but
Speaker 3: it seemed super early, dark cold. And then he would
Speaker 3: wrap us up inside and they would take us and
Speaker 3: carry us to the car. We leave you in the back,
Speaker 3: leave sleeping. That was also in the days when you
Speaker 3: didn't need to buckle your kids in the backseat. And
Speaker 3: then he would take my mom and I remember I
Speaker 3: would get up and I would look out and there
Speaker 3: was fog over there by the by the La River
Speaker 3: when you would go over like First Street or one
Speaker 3: of those bridges in La and Uh, and I remember like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is weird. It's like when you see those old
Speaker 3: movies and like Casablanca and there's this fog going behind
Speaker 3: its dark.
Speaker 2: It was like that.
Speaker 3: But it was early morning, and and she was a
Speaker 3: sharp dresser, you know, I remember looking sharp. That's one
Speaker 3: of my first memories. But it's not until he's seven, right.
Speaker 3: She was already sick then, and very sick, and he
Speaker 3: didn't know, and she was just tired. She thought it
Speaker 3: was just because of her work whatever. And she had
Speaker 3: to take a physical. That's when the doctor was like,
Speaker 3: oh shit, something's wrong. And then she was in and
Speaker 3: out of the hospital like our life was just gone.
Speaker 3: What it's just it was topsy turvy after she got sick.
Speaker 3: I remember once I visited her, and I hated that hospital.
Speaker 3: I had the smell. I hated being there. I hated
Speaker 3: her shuffling over to us and her chunk laws and
Speaker 3: her little you know, the hospital dressing they had. I
Speaker 3: hated her smell of spongebat. I hated it all the
Speaker 3: bee being all that stuff. Man, it brings back crazy
Speaker 3: feelings of helplessness. Remember when she was in junior High,
Speaker 3: she had been voted, you know, tower Queen of Griffith
Speaker 3: Junior High. She was beautiful when she got sick. The
Speaker 3: medications that they gave her made her look like she
Speaker 3: was nine months pregnant. But she also got really skinny
Speaker 3: and gaunt everywhere else, and she lost the body in
Speaker 3: her hair. She got dark circles under her eyes, and
Speaker 3: you know, she could barely move. She kind of shuffled
Speaker 3: when she was home. She was feeble. She was so
Speaker 3: drugged up. Her back. I would scratch her back sometimes.
Speaker 3: She loved to scratch her back. And I stayed home
Speaker 3: and I was sick of a lot. I was a
Speaker 3: sickly boy. So I got to spend time with my
Speaker 3: mom and I would scratch her back and I would
Speaker 3: go I had this. I knew the pattern of her
Speaker 3: back that I get scratched. Because I was I would
Speaker 3: scratch her back. I would come across this rough skin.
Speaker 3: I realized, Okay, I'm going into the little volcano head.
Speaker 2: Of the boat. Bomb the boil.
Speaker 3: Let me move around it. And I would just find
Speaker 3: the pattern and scratch her back, and she loved that
Speaker 3: on her wrists, the vein was raised on the wrist
Speaker 3: because they were constantly putting needles into it so that
Speaker 3: it almost looked like you could see you could see
Speaker 3: the blood flowing through it. It was really creepy. And
Speaker 3: then her mind left her. Periodically, it would leave her,
Speaker 3: and in dramatic ways. So one day we came home,
Speaker 3: you know, like we always did. Mothers still in the
Speaker 3: hospital that day. So Thursday, but we're outside playing basketball,
Speaker 3: me and my brother Paul, my cart some of the
Speaker 3: other fellas, and I get called in to my grandma's Hey, man,
Speaker 3: come on up, I come on up. But I knew
Speaker 3: something was strange because there's people in the house, all
Speaker 3: dressed up, people from church, family people, and this doesn't
Speaker 3: happen during the week. A week night, Thursday night. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on. I have no clue. Really,
Speaker 3: I'm a clueless nine year old boy. This is what
Speaker 3: I was. And my dad comes in and everybody moves
Speaker 3: towards my dad and there's this like somber hugs whatever,
Speaker 3: and nobody's trying to reveal to us what's going on.
Speaker 3: Yet we're just dopey boys our life about to intersect
Speaker 3: with Chance like a motherfucker, and he comes. He gets us,
Speaker 3: He walks in the room. We sit down on my
Speaker 3: grandma's bed, and then he tells us that, you know,
Speaker 3: my mom's you know, I see her again. She she died,
Speaker 3: she's in heaven, and yeah, it breaks it to us
Speaker 3: that she's dead and it's just us. And I remember
Speaker 3: thinking that I was gonna be strong for some reason.
Speaker 3: I felt like I need, I need to be strong
Speaker 3: for this. And I tell my dad that I'm not
Speaker 3: going to cry, So don't worry, I'm not gonna cry.
Speaker 3: I'm strong, gonna be strong. He goes, no, you know
Speaker 3: you need to cry. You know, men cry, He says,
Speaker 3: you know, And then you went their little list. George
Speaker 3: Washington cried, Moses cried, Abram Lincoln cried like, wella shit,
Speaker 3: all right. I said, yeah, you know, King David cry,
Speaker 3: you can cry. And so after he lays down this
Speaker 3: list a bunch of cry babies, I feel like I'll cry.
Speaker 3: So I cry and then it comes. You know, it's heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy,
Speaker 3: and then Paul's crying, my Dad's crying, And it was
Speaker 3: actually one of the best moments of my life in
Speaker 3: that the feeling you get when my dad leaned forward
Speaker 3: and pulled us into him and it was just us
Speaker 3: and we're all crying, and we just become this one
Speaker 3: spasm of anguish and pain and and there's this unity
Speaker 3: of our grief around the same thing. And it's one
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful moments I've ever had my dad,
Speaker 3: because around this morbidity, the death of my mother is
Speaker 3: also one of the most erotic feelings that you have.
Speaker 3: But I erotic, I don't mean sexual erotic. I just
Speaker 3: mean feeling like just all this emotion and all this
Speaker 3: body chemical stuff going on. You're crying and you feel
Speaker 3: near to this people. You're literally hugging and touching and
Speaker 3: crying and shedding tears and kissing each other. It's a
Speaker 3: moment of unity. It was like a for brief moment,
Speaker 3: all the pain that we've been struggling with is she's gone.
Speaker 3: There's relief in that moment, and we had just cried
Speaker 3: our eyes and our heart out and it's huh and
Speaker 3: he gives us to come and he says here, and
Speaker 3: we're all like he's giving It is like breaking breads.
Speaker 3: It fucking it's our thing. Right, So now we got
Speaker 3: a physical thing that we can all physically do together
Speaker 3: for a little ritual here, and he says, we're gonna
Speaker 3: be fine. We're gonna do this. We got this, we got.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back. Part three, Mama's gone. Do you
Speaker 2: remember the first time your dad hit you?
Speaker 3: No? I man, I just feel like it was always
Speaker 3: hitting me. I just it was Wow. It's like asking
Speaker 3: a fish to just the properties of water, right. I
Speaker 3: don't know where he knows that. It's like I was
Speaker 3: always I was always getting hat there was a moment.
Speaker 3: For example, my mother had to have been ill at
Speaker 3: this time, and I had to memorize my multiplication tables.
Speaker 3: And my dad would do this thing where he wanted
Speaker 3: us to be the smartest kids in the class because
Speaker 3: we were scholarship kids and we were the brown kids.
Speaker 3: He wanted us to be better and smarter than the
Speaker 3: other kids. So sometimes he would make us do things
Speaker 3: that we weren't yet learning. So like, for example, multiplication tables,
Speaker 3: I hadn't got there yet, but he wanted me to
Speaker 3: know them, and I had to memorize all one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty four you know, one timeands one, all the
Speaker 3: way to twelve times twelve one forty four, and he
Speaker 3: wanted to learn me to learn like in a day
Speaker 3: or whatever. He comes home and uh and test me,
Speaker 3: and he tells me for everyone I miss, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: get two spankings. It's like he wanted perfection because he
Speaker 3: felt if I didn't get it right then that man
Speaker 3: I was lazy. That man I was being on discipline,
Speaker 3: which means I was also being refractory. I was just,
Speaker 3: you know, rebellious kid for not learning. I missed five
Speaker 3: you know, the five year always going to miss nine times?
Speaker 3: He a times. There's like there's someone always get me right.
Speaker 3: I just kind of figure them out. And then he's
Speaker 3: going to hit me ten times with the belt, and
Speaker 3: my mom, you know it cries out, no, I don't
Speaker 3: hit it right. You know, he didn't do bad man.
Speaker 3: It's one hundred and forty four equations, and he does
Speaker 3: this crazy thing. Man never forget. He puts the belt
Speaker 3: in her hand and says, you hit him then, and
Speaker 3: he bullies her in and hitting me. She's crying while
Speaker 3: she's hitting me, torturing her, sadistic and she hits me
Speaker 3: so feebly because she doesn't want to hurt me that
Speaker 3: he says, you didn't make him cry, and I was
Speaker 3: a fool not to cry out because it didn't hurt.
Speaker 3: He needed to hear me cry and the elaborate pain,
Speaker 3: and I wasn't clear he wasn't doing that with my
Speaker 3: mom saying so like, yeah, my dad would get demented.
Speaker 3: It was about proving who's the boss and all this
Speaker 3: other kind of sadistic bullshit in there, and he would
Speaker 3: throw he would throw all that in the mix. And
Speaker 3: then yeah, stuff like that happened now. We were little,
Speaker 3: so it wasn't like he was he didn't have to
Speaker 3: do things he would later have to do, you know,
Speaker 3: kick us and use weapons on us. But when we
Speaker 3: were little, that little, he just would whack us with
Speaker 3: about you.
Speaker 2: Know, is there the first time you remember like crossing
Speaker 2: a line like this was different. What happened just now
Speaker 2: is different than just regular stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. When I when I got suspended for a week,
Speaker 3: that beating was so bad I couldn't go to school
Speaker 3: even after the period of time was up for me
Speaker 3: to go back because he found out late in the
Speaker 3: week that about it. So I was supposed to go
Speaker 3: back like the day, next day or two days later.
Speaker 3: I couldn't go back for three or four days because
Speaker 3: the welts were so bad. I mean, Brenda would not
Speaker 3: let me go to school.
Speaker 2: Brenda, your stepmom.
Speaker 3: She felt that they would they would send me, and
Speaker 3: that would get him in trouble. You know, I had
Speaker 3: crossed the line with him, had deceived him for almost
Speaker 3: an entire week that they were going to work. I mean,
Speaker 3: the deception had been so so bad. I think he
Speaker 3: really wanted to stop me in my tracks. But I
Speaker 3: was so far gone already. You know, that was a
Speaker 3: vicious beauting. You know, once I came home and he
Speaker 3: was I had been walking home from school and I
Speaker 3: got in a fight with this one guy. We got
Speaker 3: an argument with this one guy, and he and his boys.
Speaker 3: They're like, hey, man, you got fight him. We gotta
Speaker 3: find her. I'll fight you. You know, that's Mexican honor, me
Speaker 3: against you. Let's do it. Let's sling our dogs. And
Speaker 3: so we got to find the right place so to
Speaker 3: do it, so nobody, you know, nobody will jump in.
Speaker 3: I say, all right, so dopey me. They're like, hey,
Speaker 3: but you got a nice sweater on, man, take it off.
Speaker 3: And it was a nice sweater. My stepmother Brenda used
Speaker 3: to get us some great sweaters. It's kind of a
Speaker 3: little argu out thing across the front, kick ass sweater.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, you know what these are gentlemen, man,
Speaker 3: they don't want to ruin my sweat. I get it.
Speaker 3: That's actually cool.
Speaker 2: It's very courtly.
Speaker 3: I felt like. So I go to pull my sweater
Speaker 3: and then I'll throw them jump the shit out of me.
Speaker 3: They baby, and I like, I'm just fucked. I've got
Speaker 3: my sweater. I can't fuck up, and I can't throw
Speaker 3: any bunches they're hold either, started dragging me around, just
Speaker 3: kicking bunch. I just fall to the ground and get
Speaker 3: the ship beat out of me, and uh break my
Speaker 3: glasses right in the middle, right, crack it right in
Speaker 3: the middle. So I go walk home. I want to
Speaker 3: beat up. Oh my my sweaters over to just throw
Speaker 3: up right and out of my glass are broken. So
Speaker 3: I walk in and my dad's staying the Bible, getting
Speaker 3: ready to you know, teach and stuff like that. And
Speaker 3: he said, what happened is I got jumped and I
Speaker 3: show my glass. He's so mad. He walks over, slaps me, says, uh,
Speaker 3: you know you gotta get it. You gotta go fight
Speaker 3: these guys. We gotta find him and you're gonna fight
Speaker 3: on one by one and essentially like you're too much
Speaker 3: of a sishy. You got to recover your manhood. This
Speaker 3: is bullshit. So he puts me in the calm, like
Speaker 3: what the fucks Kennedy's do to that? They just tax
Speaker 3: my ass man, and they did it easy. But I
Speaker 3: have to do it man. I mean, dad's teaching me
Speaker 3: a very valuable lesson that will haunt his ass later.
Speaker 3: Just if you get sized up as being weak, you
Speaker 3: better be willing to go overboard and actually make a
Speaker 3: statement later. You cannot stay weak. That idea of me
Speaker 3: being a weak kid. He's not going to tolerate that shit.
Speaker 3: I gotta learn payback. We start driving around. He tell me,
Speaker 3: see some kids. I'm trying to slink in my seat
Speaker 3: front seat. I can't and he says, hey, is that
Speaker 3: them there. I put my glasses together and hold them
Speaker 3: up to my face like no, and he's like he's mad.
Speaker 3: He's mad at me. I'm just I'm a walking badge
Speaker 3: of weakness to him. To him, it's like you you shame.
Speaker 2: The Joeloya name he's not mad at the kids who
Speaker 2: beat you. He's mad at me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I right there next to him is all the
Speaker 3: evidence that he's a fucked up father because he's creating
Speaker 3: such a sissy boy, and he's not gonna have that.
Speaker 3: He's at least going to be able to say to
Speaker 3: the people, my son went back and tried to clean
Speaker 3: it up. And even if I get beat, at least
Speaker 3: I try to clean it up.
Speaker 2: So you're and your dad, did you ever find the guys?
Speaker 3: So we do fighting find them walking out of a
Speaker 3: liquor star? Is that them? And I put my glass together? No,
Speaker 3: And you know, if I gets whacked across the face
Speaker 3: and he drives home pissed, pissed, he's just so mad
Speaker 3: that if someone's a sissy And my dad had been
Speaker 3: this little gang kid who had converted to God, but
Speaker 3: he didn't know how to control his temper.
Speaker 2: Did your dad ever apologize? Did ever say he was sorry?
Speaker 2: Said he sorry all the time, all the time.
Speaker 3: And he would go into shame with spirals and he
Speaker 3: would cry, and oh, so we were like, we're sorry,
Speaker 3: we accepted, poety, we love you, dad, And it was
Speaker 3: all that, And I think that that's eventually what led
Speaker 3: me to like shut me down as disillusionment because you
Speaker 3: have all this hope, You're like, I'll never do it again. God,
Speaker 3: but we would all get our knees and pray, and
Speaker 3: God hear the woms of that. It's like, hmm, fucking worthless, Joe.
Speaker 2: I mean all this just sounds awful. I mean, you're
Speaker 2: a kid. How did he not just like fold?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what people don't understand. When you go
Speaker 3: inward like that, you go into darkness, gets real dark
Speaker 3: down there. That's where you get your most power. So
Speaker 3: as my dad was beating me and I was taking
Speaker 3: each blow, there's a different power. There's a different energy
Speaker 3: in the shadows that builds up inside of you, the animosity,
Speaker 3: the negativity, that stuff. It crackles differently, It changes the
Speaker 3: molecules differently. Yeah, rearranges you and gives you power. And
Speaker 3: I was getting stronger. I was not getting weaker. I
Speaker 3: was getting demented with a very powerful rage. And that's
Speaker 3: what eventually would come out.
Speaker 2: You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the
Speaker 2: Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media.
Speaker 2: Get the Money and Run is produced by Western Sound
Speaker 2: and a cast Studio. Next up, stay tuned for episode two,
Speaker 2: Who's Your Daddy?
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