1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm tre C V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry, and 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: we're going to continue the second part of our two 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: part episode about Audrey Lord today and community building and 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: solidarity were major themes of Audrey Lord's poetry and her life, 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: and because of the role that she played in the 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: feminist movement in the community of women that she worked within, 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: we'd really be remiss if we didn't at least mention 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: a few of her lifelong friends. These included Audrey and 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: rich In, her lifelong partner, Michelle Cliff, both poets and 12 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: professor Blanche Cook, and playwright Clear Costs. For most of 13 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: Audrey's life, her partner and co parent was a woman 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: named Francis Clayton, and she spent her last year's with 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: a woman named Aria Joseph. And Audrey was also a 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: teacher and a speaker. She worked at a number of 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: colleges and universities during her career, and she became an 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: influential presence in the feminist movement. She edited literary journals, 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: helping to give a voice to emerging black poets, and 20 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: when white publishers didn't want to publish the work of 21 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: people of color, especially women, and doubly especially lesbians of color, 22 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: she and other women started their own presses. She was 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: also a policy panelist for the National Endowment of the 24 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: Arts Literature Program. Also an activist, Audrey helped found a 25 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: number of social organizations, including the anti apartheid organization Sisters 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: and Supportive Sisters in South Africa, and the Women's Coalition 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: of St. Croix. With Barbara Smith, she co founded Kitchen 28 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Table Women of Color Press, which was the first publisher 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: run by women of color in the United States. Not 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: long before her death, she was also the first black 31 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: person to be named the New York State Poet. So 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: in this episode, we'll talk about her personal, political, and 33 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: poet lives, including her world as a wife and a mother. 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: When she was twenty seven, Audrey met the man that 35 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: she would later marry, Edward Ashley Rollins. He had graduated 36 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: from law school at Columbia earlier than that. At the 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: age of seventeen, he had run away from home to 38 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: join the Navy, although he had to have his father's 39 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: commission to do so because of his age and coincidentally, 40 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: both Ed and Audrey were having an affair with the 41 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: same woman before they met uh one of several women 42 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: that Audrey was involved with at the time. Ed wanted 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: to have children, and long before they were in a 44 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: physical relationship with each other, Audrey had also thought about 45 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: having children with Ed, and they both had their own 46 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: pretty serious internal struggles about their relationship, and they had 47 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: to do a lot of soul searching before committing to it. 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: Audrey was black and identified as lesbian. Uh Ed was white, 49 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: and while he didn't really identify as gay, he had 50 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 1: mostly been involved with men for a number of years. 51 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: Their whole existence as a couple had all kinds of 52 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: social and political implications for them and basically any anyone 53 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: they would ever encounter. Uh Ed's mother and many of 54 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: Audrey's friends were also opposed to the idea, and they 55 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: loved each other, but they weren't really in love. To 56 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: quote Audrey as a black lesbian mother in an interracial marriage, 57 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: there was usually some part of me guaranteed to offend 58 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: everybody's comfortable prejudices of who I should be. They got 59 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: married on March thirty one, nineteen sixty two, with the 60 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: idea that they would work together to have children and 61 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 1: raise a family according to their own rules and principles, 62 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: and this was not an overwhelmingly popular decision among either 63 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: of their personal lives. No one from Ed's family attended 64 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: the wedding, and several of Audrey's lesbian friends made the 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: same decision. The pair had two children, Elizabeth and Jonathan. 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: Audrey's ideas about birth and child raising were also quite 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: progressive for the time. She wanted ed to go to 68 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: childbirth classes with her and to be in the room 69 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: when she gave birth, and she of the baby to 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: stay with her rather than be in a hospital nursery. 71 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: She also wanted to breastfeed, which did not have nearly 72 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: the level of social insistence or acceptance that it does today. 73 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: As they got older, she made homemade whole grain bread 74 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: for the children and limited how much sugar they could have, 75 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: and she talked openly with both of them about social 76 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: issues ideas that are pretty commonplace today but in the 77 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: early sixties were not so much. Yeah, I see a 78 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: lot of the things that at the time we're really 79 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: progressive are today pretty much a given. When it comes 80 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: to a lot of the things that she thought about 81 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 1: giving birth and raising children. In nineteen sixty three, Audrey 82 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: and Ed attended the March on Washington for Jobs at Freedom, 83 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: at which Martin Luther King Jr. Delivered his I Have 84 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: a Dream speech, although they had left by the time 85 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: he started, and they listened to it in the car 86 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: on the way home. Um Andre wrote, though, that she 87 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: found the march an immensely moving experience. At Christmas time 88 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty three, their apartment burned in a fire 89 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: after Ed left a cigarette unattended. Then, in June of 90 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: nine five, Audrey was rear ended at a red light 91 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: while baby Jonathan was in the car with her. His 92 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: injuries were minor, but because of her injuries, Audrey was 93 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: unable to pick up her children or write for months. 94 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: So their relationship, apart from all of the social issues 95 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: that were inherent in it, which put their own pressures 96 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: onto the two of them, it gradually became strained. Both 97 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: of them were having relationships with people, which on its 98 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: own was fine with both of them and was sort 99 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: of part of the deal. But Audrey was open about 100 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: her relationships with women and disclosed them to Ed, and 101 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: often they were with people that she was friends with. 102 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: Ed on the other hand, tended to carry out his 103 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: affairs in secret, which Audrey found upsetting. Uh In their 104 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: disagreements with each other, Audrey could sometimes become violent. Another 105 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: source of stress likely had to do with Ed's privilege 106 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: as a white man. Audrey was perpetually aware of their 107 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: presence as an interracial couple during the Civil rights movement. 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: She knew that their relationship was a risky one to 109 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: be in and that they faced criticism and judgment from 110 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: both black and white communities. Ed, on the other hand, 111 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: didn't really even consider his sexual orientation and his marriage 112 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: as a potential obstacle to his work in law. When 113 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: Ed's career as a lawyer didn't really take off, they 114 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: ran into financial trouble. Audrey had stopped working while she 115 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: was pregnant with their first child, and so she got 116 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: a night shift job and started trying to help with 117 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: her father's old real estate business as well. Her mother 118 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: had inherited it. After his death, Audrey started using in 119 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: betamines again an effort to keep up with all of 120 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: these responsibilities and also her children. She didn't write much 121 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: during her children's youngest years, but then a man taking 122 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: a class on black writers asked to interview her for 123 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: a paper, and she agreed, and the paper Portraitor as 124 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: someone who had given up on writing to become a 125 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: wife and mother, and after reading it, she really rededicated 126 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: herself to writing. She set up a desk in her 127 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: bedroom and insisted that ed would take over the household 128 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: for three hours a day so that she would have 129 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: time to just focus on her writing. At first, as 130 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: she was trying to get back into the world of poetry, 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: she didn't have a lot of success getting published. But 132 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: then the black arts movement evolved from the Civil rights 133 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: and Black power movements. A number of new black publications 134 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: started to take shape, and in nineteen sixty seven, independent 135 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: publisher Poets Press contacted Audrey with interest in publishing a 136 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: book of her work. Her first published poetry collection was 137 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: called The First Cities, and it came out in April 138 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty eight. The following January, Audrey received a 139 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,559 Speaker 1: call from Galen Williams, who would go on to launch 140 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: the literary organization Poets and Writers, and in this call, 141 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: Galen was telling her that she had been recommended to 142 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: receive a National Endowment for the Arts grant to be 143 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: a poet in residence at a historically black college called 144 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: two Galuu College in Mississippi. She was really reluctant to 145 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: go at first. She you know, she was a mother 146 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: and her children needed her. She had also been sick 147 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: for several months following a particularly bad case of the flu. 148 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: The South itself itself was still reeling from the Civil 149 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: Rights movement and desegregation. The Deep South at that point 150 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: was an enormously dangerous place for black people as a whole. 151 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: To Blue itself was also the scene of pretty violent 152 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: racial hostility. There were always there were frequent reports of 153 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: shots being fired by white people along the edge of 154 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: town into the black areas of town. But she decided 155 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: to go, and later she said that the experience of 156 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: teaching there changed her life. So for six weeks at 157 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: Too Glue, Audrey taught a poetry workshop, and it was 158 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: her first work as a teacher. In her workshops, they 159 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: talked a lot about identity and the nuances of race 160 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: and making a personal connection to writing and learning. It 161 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: really became a collaborative environment in which Audrey learned more 162 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: about her own work. While teaching and writing, They all, 163 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: including Audrey, wrote a huge amount of work and Audrey 164 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: worked with Galen Williams during this time to publish a 165 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: literary magazine for the students. Audrey's work at TULU was 166 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: part of what convinced her to use poetry and language 167 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: as a force for social change in the world. Following 168 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: teaching there, she wanted to use her own writing to 169 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: open people's hearts and minds and to raise awareness of racism, sexism, homophobia, 170 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: and other forms of discrimination, and she wanted to teach 171 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: other people to read and think and write as well. 172 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: She went on to have teaching jobs at City College 173 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: in New York, Herbert H. Lamon College, John Jay College 174 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: of Criminal Justice, and Hunter College, as well as lots 175 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: of other visiting teaching roles. She taught writing workshops as 176 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: well as classes and workshops on racism and identity all 177 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: over the place. And while she was at two Galue, 178 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: Audrey also meant Francis Clayton, and although Audrey had had 179 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: many other relationships while married to Ed, the depth of 180 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: her relationship with Frances was quite different. She couldn't do both. 181 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: She couldn't maintain her marriage and this relationship. She loved Ed, 182 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: but she was really increasingly in love with Frances and 183 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: When she returned home to New York, her relationship with 184 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: Ed became even more strained than it had already been. 185 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: But they had two children together and her children's well 186 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: being was a huge priority, so Audrey wanted to go 187 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: to couples therapy, but for a long time Ed was 188 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: resistant to the idea. In the spring of nineteen seventy, 189 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: Audrey and Ed had a trial separation, and that fall 190 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: she asked him to move out. They finalized their separation 191 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: their separation agreement in nineteen seventy one, and started divorce 192 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: proceedings in nineteen seventy two. Their divorce became final in 193 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, and it was not really amicable by 194 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: this point. Although Audrey and Ed weren't living together anymore, 195 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: her relationship with Frances was for a while long distance. 196 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: Audrey was in New York and for this was in 197 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: Rhode Island, where she worked at Brown University, and the 198 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: distance really became increasingly painful for both of them, so 199 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: they finally moved in together, with Francis moving to New 200 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: York uh since Audrey had to stay there due to 201 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: the divorce in nineteen seventy two. While she hadn't really 202 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: been hiding her relationship with women. In nineteen seventy three, 203 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: Audrey publicly came out during a poetry reading. Francis became 204 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: Audrey's partner and co mother to her children, and this 205 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: relationship lasted for most of the rest of Audrey's life, 206 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: although Audrey continued to be involved with other women, though 207 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: more discreetly than in her life with Ed, where she 208 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: was very forthright about it. The two women bought a 209 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: house together in one of New York, New York's more 210 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: conservative neighborhoods, and they were really frequent targets of racism 211 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: and homophobia there. The kids also had a hard time. 212 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: They were leaving this privileged world of private school to 213 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: attend a public school, and they didn't really fit in 214 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: with either the white children or the black children in 215 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: their new environment. It and as a mother, Audrey tried 216 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: to instill in both of the kids a sense of 217 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: social justice and a firm understanding of her values. She 218 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: wanted Jonathan in particular to grow up as an advocate 219 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 1: for equal rights, but sometimes this was a struggle. As 220 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: we know, kids don't always do with their parents in 221 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: vision for them. Uh and Audrey really worried about the 222 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: lack of a male role model in Jonathan's life in 223 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: their home. It also wasn't always easy for her to 224 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: put forth her own beliefs in a way that made 225 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: sense to the kids. She believed in non violence, for example, 226 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: but she was really outraged when she learned that the 227 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: children were being bullied at their new school and and 228 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: not fighting back, and her view, while non violence was preferable, 229 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: defending oneself was also a necessity. In nineteen seventy four, 230 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: Audrey's collection of poetry from a Land Where Other People 231 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: Live was nominated for the National Book Award for Poetry. 232 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: The other nominees included, among others, Audrey and Rich and 233 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: Alice Walker add Ran, Alice and Audrey all knew one another. 234 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: It's an illiterative crew to all be nominated together. It 235 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: is uh and they knew one another's work, and they 236 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: were all feminists. Before the winner was announced, they got 237 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: together and wrote a statement that would be read on 238 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: behalf of all of them should one of them win. 239 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: Audrey and richest collection, Diving into the Wreck Poems nineteen 240 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: seventy one and nineteen seventy two, co won along with 241 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: Alan Ginsburg's The Fall of America poems of these states 242 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy one. Here's part of the statement that 243 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: Audrey and Rich read when accepting the award. The statement 244 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to read was prepared by three of the 245 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: women nominated for the National Book Award for Poetry, with 246 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: the agreement that it would be read by whichever of 247 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: us if any was chosen. We Audrey Lord, Audrey and Rich, 248 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: and Alice Walker together accept this award in the name 249 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 1: of all the women whose voices have gone and still 250 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: go unheard in a patriarchal world, and in the name 251 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: of those who, like us, have been tolerated as token 252 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: women in this culture, often at great cost and in 253 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: great pain. We believe that we can enrich ourselves more 254 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: in supporting and giving to each other than by competing 255 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: against each other, and that poetry, if it is poetry, 256 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: exists in a realm beyond ranking and comparison. We symbolically 257 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: joined together here in refusing the terms of patriarchal competition 258 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: and declaring that we will share this prize among us, 259 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: to be used as best we can for women. I 260 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: think that is a great sentiment, and we're gonna let 261 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: that sit for a second as we pause. So are 262 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: you ready to dive back into the world of Audrey Lord, Yes, 263 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: We're gonna start with lots of travel, alrighty. Starting in 264 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: the late nineteen seventies, Audrey started to travel, and she 265 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: would continue to travel pretty extensively for the rest of 266 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: her life. First, she went to Barbados, where her father 267 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: had been born, and one of the things she wanted 268 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: to do while there was to find evidence of his birth. 269 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: She was not really successful in that effort, but that 270 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: was one of her goals. The year that she turned forty, 271 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: she and her family traveled to the West coast of Africa. 272 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: Audrey was following an intuition that her ancestors had been 273 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: from there, so this trip and the trip to Barbadoes 274 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: were both in a way about her seeking out her 275 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: identity and her roots. Her time in Africa deeply influenced 276 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: her writing and her identity. After she returned, she increasingly 277 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: drew from African spirituality and dress, and African imagy made 278 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: its way into her writing. She continued to travel around 279 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: the United States and to other countries, including the Soviet 280 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: Union in Nigeria, to read, speak and attend conferences along 281 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: with themes of love equality and social progress that were 282 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: already prevalent in her work. She began to write about 283 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: the power of the erotic after seeing how differently eroticism 284 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: and physical relationships were approached in Africa than in the West, 285 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: and in nine, as her work was becoming better known, 286 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: she also began working with literary agents Charlotte Sheedy, whose 287 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: agency actually still represents lord work today. W. W. Norton 288 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: published her collection Cole in nineteen seventy six, and being 289 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: published by a major publisher marked a huge turn in 290 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: her prominence as a poet. In nineteen seventy seven, at 291 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: the age of forty three, Audrey went to the doctor 292 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: after finding a lump in her breast. She had a 293 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: biopsy which showed that the tumor was benign. She started 294 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: writing and speaking about this experience almost immediately. She delivered 295 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: a speech about it on a panel at a Modern 296 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: Language Association meeting less than a month after she had 297 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: been given the results. Less than a year after that, 298 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: on Labor date nine, she found another lump and she 299 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: went for another biopsy. This time the lump was malignant 300 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: and unlike the previous lump, which had really taken her 301 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: by surprise. She had really been living with the idea 302 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: of cancer for almost a year. This time, she had 303 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: already researched her options for treatment and had a list 304 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: of questions prepared for her doctor when she went in. 305 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: Her decision was to have a mastective and that took 306 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: place on September. And after the mastectomy she really changed 307 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: her diet and lifestyle dramatically uh and began taking supplements. 308 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: She also began writing about her experience with cancer, as 309 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: well as the sexist treatment she witnessed in the world 310 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: of medicine and cancer treatment, and the pressures that were 311 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: placed on women to conform after having a mastectomy. Her 312 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: journals from this period were published as essays and then 313 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: as a book called The Cancer Journals, and that came 314 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: out in The Cancer Journals was a really groundbreaking work 315 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: for a whole lot of reasons. One is that it 316 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: approached breast cancer from a black lesbian perspective, which was 317 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: pretty much absent in the discussion about breast cancer at 318 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: the time. It also discussed cancer, mastectomy and reconstructive surgery 319 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: surgery within the medical establishment, and a really frank and 320 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: probing way. She did not pull any punches in the 321 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: way she wrote about how doctors spoke to her, how 322 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: nurses spoke to her, how people would sort of show 323 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: up in her room with the presumption that it was 324 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: time for her to have a prosthesis now, like there wasn't. Really. 325 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: She was like that that that's not made about lots 326 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: and lots uh. And there were also times when she 327 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: would like she would get copies of her own medical 328 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: records and she would see just deeply judgmental and cruel 329 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: things that doctors had written about her in her medical records. 330 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: She's not sugarcoat any of that. And her decision not 331 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: to have reconstructive reconstructive surgery and also not to wear 332 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: a breast proscesis is one that a lot of people 333 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: would still consider subversive today, sort of an automatic assumption 334 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: that if a woman has a mastectomy, she is then 335 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: going to attempt to appear that she still has two breasts, 336 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 1: And Audrey Lord was like, no, I am not doing that. 337 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: You cannot make me. She instead adopted that as part 338 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: of her whole identity. She would sort of dressed in 339 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: an asymmetric way to uh incorporate the idea that like 340 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: her body was different now, um, which is not. It 341 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: was not not common at all. Even now when those 342 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: sorts of issues are discussed more openly in people do 343 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,199 Speaker 1: make that choice a little bit more than they may 344 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: be used to. It's still viewed with sort of a 345 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: at best, like a quizzical reaction from people, why would 346 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: you choose that? But why would you not want to have? 347 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: But that this is what I'm doing. Yes. So in 348 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: the seventies that was hugely outlier thinking. And despite going 349 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: through all this, later in eight she was one of 350 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: the speakers at the first National March on Washington for 351 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: Lesbian and gay rights. In one she had another cancer 352 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: scare when the doctor found blood in her stool, but 353 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: that turned out to be a false alarm. In three 354 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: the United States invaded Granada, which could definitely be its 355 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: own podcast, in Operation Urgent Fury. The prime minister had 356 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: been deposed and later murdered, and a communist leader took 357 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: the home. The invasion was in part a piece of 358 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: the Reagan administration's attempt to rid the world of communism. Audrey, 359 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,959 Speaker 1: who at this point had really started to consider the 360 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: Caribbean her home, wrote a scathing essay about this called 361 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: Granada Revisited, an interim report which appeared as part of 362 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: her collection of essays Sister Outsider. Her position was that 363 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: American foreign policy was rooted in racism and that the 364 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: invasion of Grenada was a racist act meant to subjugate 365 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: and dominate people of color. With his essay, she also 366 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: clarified her own identity as Grenadian American. She took another 367 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: trip to Grenada after the invasion to make sure that 368 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: the nation had survived the American invasion. In February, she 369 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: started having pain and trouble with digestion. During a cat 370 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: scan to evaluate her gallbladder, doctor Shaun a tumor on 371 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: her liver almostly metastasized from her best breast cancer. She 372 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: knew that a malignant tumor was going to mean radiation 373 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: and chemotherapy, which she did not like the idea of doing, 374 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: and at the time that would still have pretty low 375 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: odds of survival, so she decided not to have a biopsy. 376 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: She traveled. She went to Mexico and St. Croix, and 377 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: she wrote about how important it was to her to 378 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: be somewhere warm and bright. In April, she traveled to Germany, 379 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: and that was a trip that had been in the 380 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: work since nine when filmmaker, writer and activist Dagmar Schultz 381 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: had asked her to come to speak at the Afro 382 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: German community at the Free University of Berlin. This trip 383 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: turned into a speaking community building journey through several countries. 384 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: While she was in Europe, though her health started to decline. 385 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: She started seeing a homeopathic and anthroposophic doctor who agreed 386 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: with her decision not to have a biopsy and started 387 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: her on a regiment of alternative treatments. In case you've 388 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: not heard of it, anthroposophic medicine combines conventional practice is 389 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: with spirituality and holistic treatments. It's kind of a mind, 390 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: body spirit treatment plan. And after traveling and speaking around Europe, 391 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: Audrey returned to the United States in July of nineteen 392 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: four and after she got back, she had another cat 393 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: scam and the tumor in her liver was the same. 394 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: She took this as an indication that her holistic treatments 395 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: were working, and she decided to continue with that regiment 396 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: and her dietary changes, which mostly focused on consuming fruits 397 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: and vegetables, and she continued to write and travel, sometimes 398 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: with Francis and sometimes alone to Cuba, St. Croix, Australia 399 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: and New Zealand, and the fall of ve she started 400 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: having abdominal pain and weakness. Another cat scan revealed another 401 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: tumor in her liver, and the first one had also 402 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: gotten bigger. She found another anthroposophic doctor in New York 403 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: that December. Hunter College named its poetry center after Audrey. 404 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: Not long after that, she and Francis went to Switzerland 405 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: so she could be treated at the Lucas Clinic in 406 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: anthropos topic Clinic for cancer treatment. Doctors there confirmed that 407 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: she had liver cancer and that it had almost certainly 408 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: metastasized from her breast. Audrey stayed through the start of 409 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: January of the next year, and when she got back 410 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: to the States, she saw her regular oncologist who talked 411 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: to her about conventional treatment options. At that point, she 412 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: had a prognosis of about five years to live. She 413 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: took a trip to the Caribbean with Gloria Joseph, whom 414 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: she'd known and been involved with for a long time. 415 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: Their relationship deepened, and Audrey began to pull away from Francis. 416 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: Their relationship, like all relationships, had its ups and downs, 417 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: and Audrey had already been questioning whether it should continue, 418 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: especially as she made pretty significant changes to her diet 419 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: and health regimen that Frances did not make as well. 420 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: They formally and finally split when they sold their Staten 421 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: Island home in Audrey decided to spend the end of 422 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: her life in Saint Croix, which had begun to feel 423 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: like home to her not long before her death. She 424 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: took the name gone Adisa, which means she who makes 425 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: her meaning known. She lived in Saint Croix with Gloria, 426 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: who was a Saint Croix native, until she died on 427 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: November seventeenth. Audi was cremated and she left instructions for 428 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: her ashes to be scattered in several places that had 429 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: meaning to her. Although she often wrote autobiographically, she called 430 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: her book Zombie a new spelling of my name, a 431 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: bio mythography. Uh. There is currently only one written biography 432 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: of her, which Tracy mentioned at the top of our 433 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: first part of this two parter, which is called Warrior Poet, 434 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: a biography of Audrey Lord, and it's by Alexis de Vaux. 435 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: It's very thorough, as Tracy said, it's really well sourced 436 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: and it includes a great deal of detail about her life. Yeah. 437 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: The the author I think must have read every scrap 438 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: of paper that was available to her that Audrey herself 439 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: had written correspondence all of her essays to construct a 440 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,239 Speaker 1: pretty detailed glimpse of her life that goes into a 441 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: lot of detail that, uh, we haven't really talked about 442 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: here specifically. It also seems pretty silly to have two 443 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: episodes talking about a poet without actually including any of 444 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: her poetry. So I tried to find a poem that 445 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: would be both accessible to people um and also include 446 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: a lot of the themes that we've talked about in 447 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: and how Audrey lived her life, and the things that 448 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 1: she believed in, and the things the themes that were 449 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: common in her work. So the Charlotte Sheety Literary Agent 450 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: Agency graciously gave us permission to read this poem um, 451 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: which was originally published by W. W. Norton, which publishes 452 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: many of the other collections of Audrey's work, and us 453 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: also the publisher of the book Warrior Poet, and this 454 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: poem is called who said it was simple. There are 455 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: so many roots to the tree of anger that sometimes 456 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: the branches shatter before they bear. Sitting in needics, the 457 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: women rallied four They march discussing the problematic girls they 458 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: hire to make them free. An almost white counterman passes, 459 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: awaiting brother to serve them first, and the ladies neither 460 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: noticed nor reject the slighter pleasures of their slavery. But I, 461 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: who am bound by my mirror as well as my bed, 462 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: see cause in color as well as sex, and sit 463 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: here wondering which me will survive all these liberations. Was 464 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: originally published in I'm quite fond of Audrey Lord. Yeah, 465 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: her story is so interesting and it is one of 466 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: the things that always touches me When I hear stories 467 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: about people being so ahead of their time, particularly and 468 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: kind of uh social norms. I'm always fascinated because often 469 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 1: it seems like we don't hear that much about it. 470 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: I I majored in literature in school, as some of 471 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: you may know, uh, and a lot of times when 472 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: we're talking about poets and other writers, the focus is 473 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: really on their work, and and sometimes, at least when 474 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: I was in school, there was some conversation about the 475 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: factors of a person's life that led them to this work. 476 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: But that's often not really what most of the time 477 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: has spent time. So while I knew a few little 478 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: snippets about Audrey Lord's life. I really liked getting to 479 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: know more of it. Uh so yeah, maybe we will 480 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: talk about more writers at some point in the future. 481 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: I had a very similar well, I had a similar 482 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: experience studying literature in college, which is that I realized 483 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: pretty early into my major, like, I like the literature, 484 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: but I'm really fascinated by the biographies behind them. So 485 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: do you have a little bit of listener mail? Listener mail? 486 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: This is another piece of listener mail about our Mendez 487 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: versus Westminster episode. This one is from a Skina who 488 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: noted that the last time she wrote to us was 489 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: back in the Pop Stuff days. Hi, we also missed 490 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: pop stuff? Uh? She says, I have listened to this 491 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: podcast since the fact or Fiction days, which is so 492 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: long ago, when when stuff you missed in history class 493 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: was called fact in fiction and had Josh Clark of 494 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is one of the co hosts. 495 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: Which sometimes when I send people a link to an 496 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: episode from that era that they've asked for, they get 497 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: completely flabbergasted at who the hosts were way back then. 498 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: She says. The Mendes versus Westminster episode finally prompted me 499 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: to write in so I can tell you my own 500 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: story of the lingering prejudiced against speaking a foreign language 501 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: in the United States. I was born in Poland, but 502 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: I was only six months old when my parents and 503 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: I immigrated to the United States, settling in the Philadelphia area. 504 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: My mom didn't speak English when we arrived here. She 505 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: did speak Polish, Russian, Yiddish, and German, but not English. 506 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: Not wanting me to learn English with an accent, she 507 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: and my dad only spoke to me in Polish. It 508 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: was my first language. I learned English from going to stores, 509 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: talking to neighbors, and above all, from Sesame Street. By 510 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: the time I was three, I was fluent, well three 511 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: year old fluent in both languages. I first heard my 512 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: mom speak English when I was five, and boy was 513 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: I surprised that she could. I went to elementary school 514 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, and I very much remember how 515 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: the kids liked to make dumb poll act jokes, which 516 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: I always found strange because I was a straight A student. 517 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: But the story I have is about my reading teacher 518 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: in third grade. So around nineteen seventy it was open 519 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: house night at the beginning of the year and I 520 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: guess because the school knew that many parents couldn't afford babysitters, 521 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: kids were allowed to come. I remember it looking over 522 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: and seeing that my mom and my teacher were having 523 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: a let's call it an animated discussion. There wasn't any 524 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: yelling or anything, but I could tell that my mom 525 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: was not amused. As soon as I could, I asked 526 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: her what had happened, and she wouldn't tell me. She 527 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: just said, teacher and I didn't agree on something, but 528 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: you don't need to worry about it. She actually said 529 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: this in Polish. Justina uh tells what it was in Polish, 530 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: but as I do not speak Polish, I'm not going 531 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: to mangle that. It was clear that my mom wasn't 532 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: going to tell me, and pretty soon I forgot all 533 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: about the incident. Had a good year, and I got 534 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: a solid a. It was only after the school year 535 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: was over that my mom finally told me what had 536 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: gone down. That evening, my mom had introduced herself and 537 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: my teacher had immediately launched into a speech about how 538 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: my parents needed to stop speaking to me in Polish, 539 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: that speaking a second language at such a young age 540 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: was interfering with my ability to speak English. My mom 541 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: was having none of that. After a little back and forth, 542 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: she ended with, if you were a good teacher, and 543 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 1: I think that you are despite what you just said, 544 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: then you will teach my daughter to the best of 545 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: your ability, and you will see that rather than making 546 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,239 Speaker 1: her English weak, speaking Polish makes her English stronger. My 547 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: mom was very happy when she met with the teacher 548 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: at the parent conference a few months later, and my 549 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: teacher apologized to her for what she had said at 550 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: the open house. I don't know if you if polish 551 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: makes your daughters English stronger, but it certainly doesn't make 552 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: it weaker. She's my best student, she said. It made 553 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: my mom's day, week, and year. I'm not certain who 554 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: in attitudes about being bilingual changed in the United States, 555 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: but it happened right around oblivious to me. When I 556 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: was little, the fact that I spoke two languages was 557 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: considered a negative. By the time I headed off to college, 558 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: it was a positive and considered cool by my peers. 559 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: Thank goodness for that. Keep out the good work. I 560 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: always learned something new in every episode, so thank you regards. Justina. 561 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Justina. It's a really fun story. 562 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: I love this it's like I simultaneously loved this story 563 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: and hate that the teacher said that in the first place. Um, 564 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: And I think a point that we had made in 565 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: the in the Mendes versus Westminster podcast is it's it's 566 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: kind of strange to look back in history and see 567 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: what a huge prejudice there was against people who didn't 568 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: speak English when today, like parents will put their infants 569 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: on waiting lists for second language immercial schools in the 570 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: hope that they will actually be able to go. But 571 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: that's complete change in thinking. UM. So thank you again, Justina. 572 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us about this 573 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: or anything else, you can. 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