1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Flanders, head of Government and Economics at Bloomberg, 3 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: and this is trump Anomics, the podcast that looks at 4 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: the economic world of Donald Trump, how he's already shaped 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 2: the global economy, and what on earth is going to 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: happen next. Well, this week we're looking at how the 7 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 2: country with the most to lose from Donald Trump's trade 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 2: wars is trying quietly to win them. In the world 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: of Donald Trump, you don't always want to be where 10 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: the action is. As I record this on Tuesday, twenty 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: eighth of October, most eyes are on Asia as the 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: President tours the region, making deals and headlines wherever he goes, 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: and at least as of now, he'll be meeting the 14 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: Chinese president later in the week to seal what is 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: already been billed as a great victory in his trade 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: war with that country. In fact, it's China who probably 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: now has the upper hand in that conversation and future ones. 18 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: And if you want to understand why, just listen to 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 2: the last episode of Trumpnomics with Arthur Kroeber. So instead, 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: my focus this week is on a country which has 21 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: largely avoided the headlines since President Trump came back to 22 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 2: the White House, but as one of America's largest trading partners, 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: has arguably even more at stake than China and a 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: lot weaker cards. Mexico sends a whopping eighty three percent 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: of its exports to the US on some measures, and 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: every time the President talks about blanket tariffs on the country, 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: its economy shudders. Yet somehow that hasn't happened. There have 28 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: been continual reprieves, and most of the credit goes to 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: Mexico's President, Claudia Scheinbaum, now entering her second year. So 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: how exactly has Mexico's first female president navigated the Trump 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: era so skillfully? And what's at stake in her continuing 32 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: to pull it off? Those are the questions we're answering 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 2: in this episode, And because we're Bloomberg Economics, we've brought numbers. 34 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: By our estimate, the difference for Mexico, for President Chinbaum 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: between managing this right and managing it wrong over the 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: next few years, we Reckon comes down to more than 37 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: four thousand dollars worth of additional economic growth for every man, woman, 38 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 2: and child in Mexico between now and twenty thirty. It's 39 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: on the good scenario, Mexico could even end up growing 40 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: faster than the US for the first time since two 41 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: thousand and eight. Probably won't want President Trump to notice that, 42 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: but as we're going to be hearing, that rosy outcome 43 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: is indeed far from guaranteed, So let's get into it. 44 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: Alex Vasquez is one of our economy and government reporters 45 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: in Mexico City joining me now. 46 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: Alex, welcome, thank you, thank you for having me. 47 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: And in New York's Felipe Hernandez, who covers Latin America 48 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: for US at Bloomberg Economy. He's got more than fifteen 49 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: years experience covering Latin America for Bloomberg, but also at 50 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: firms including Banco Santander and Deutsche Bank. I think it's 51 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: the first time for both of you. How has it 52 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: taken me so long? I guess that's another sign that 53 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: Mexico has quite happily been staying out of the headlines 54 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 2: over the last few months. Alex, remind us where we 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: are in the negotiations between the US and Mexico. As 56 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: I mentioned, it seems like no news has been good news. 57 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think shambong has managed to I think the 58 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: big achievement is to stay away of confrontation with Trump. 59 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: She doesn't speak much, and I think that something Trump appreciates, 60 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 3: and she has given him what he wants. She has 61 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 3: helped to stop migration by sending the National Guard to 62 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: the border. She has handed the US some important drug 63 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: traffickers that were. 64 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: Jailed in Mexico. 65 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: Right now, Mexico I think is the best country position 66 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 3: regarding tariff and regarding trade with the US because even 67 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 3: compared with Canada, which is also part of the US 68 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 3: Mexico and Canada trade agreement, I think Mexico doesn't have 69 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 3: like reciprocal tariff. It only has twenty five percent tariff 70 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: related to fentannel trafficking, but most of the Mexican goods 71 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 3: are free of tariff thanks to the trade deal. So 72 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 3: she has managed to do pretty well. Canada has higher tariff. 73 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 3: And she announced in a press conference that we had 74 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: a deadline for November first to race tariff in Mexico, 75 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 3: and she announced that it was extended again. 76 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 4: I spoke with President Trump on Saturday, and we are 77 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 4: going to give it a few more weeks to be 78 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 4: a able to close the issue that is already very 79 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 4: advanced regarding the fifty four non tariff barriers. So we 80 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 4: agree to speak again in a week or so because 81 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 4: we are practically already closing this issue, because ultimately on 82 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 4: November one, that deadline closes that we had both set 83 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 4: for ourselves. 84 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: Trump has mentioned that he has a lot of respect 85 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: for her, and you can tell that when she is 86 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 3: the one that announces in a press conference that they 87 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 3: had a phone conversation and they reach a deal to 88 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: continue negotiating, but that means no more tariff. So I 89 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: guess the big win is never engaged in a confrontation 90 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: and she never retaliated with tariff from Mexico. But obviously 91 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 3: there's a lot at stake because Mexico sends to the 92 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: US more than eighty percent of it. 93 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: Techsp so she has to have a good relationship with Trump. 94 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: I mean, we do tend to think about this and 95 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 2: terms of a sort of balance of power and some 96 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 2: of the countries, certainly the countries with very little leverage. 97 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of some African economies and others that are 98 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: facing very high reciprocal tariffs. That does seem to be 99 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: about America sort of using its raw force to impose 100 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 2: things on other countries. Whereas we pointed out last week 101 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 2: with China, China has been very good at using the 102 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: leverage it has. It's particularly its control over these key 103 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: parts of the global supply chain, these rare earth magnets. 104 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: If you look at Mexico on the face of it, 105 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: you know it has It's a much smaller economy, has 106 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: much less to bring to the table, and these negotiations, 107 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 2: you say, she's given him everything he wants, but she 108 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: hasn't given him anything on the trade front, which is 109 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: obviously the most important for Mexico. Are there hidden forces 110 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 2: that are tipping the balance economically in favor of Mexico 111 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: in these negotiations? How has she managed to have this 112 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: ongoing reprieves where you know we're in China. They had 113 00:06:58,720 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: to actually threaten all this. 114 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 3: Other have to get that Mexico is next to the 115 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: US and both economy are highly integrated. Sometimes to make 116 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 3: a car or even an auto part, the same piece 117 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: goes through the border several times. So I think a 118 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: lot of US companies have operations in Mexico. 119 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: We know the labor force is cheaper here. 120 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: Mexico has a pretty good manufacturing so I think Trump 121 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 3: has faced a lot of pressure. 122 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: From different interests in the US. 123 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: They pretty much don't want to have bad relationship with 124 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: Mexico because there's a lot of economic interests in Mexico. 125 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: Does she ever talk about that, Does she ever say 126 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: speak directly to these big car manufacturers and others highlight 127 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: the stake orders she just letting them do the talking. 128 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean she always mentions like, we have great 129 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 3: car manufacturers in Mexico. Even US companies are here for 130 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: general motors. 131 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: They have big plants here in Mexico. 132 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 3: So it's not that easy to move production to the 133 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: US in four years or in a year. So I 134 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: guess a lot of people in the US know that, 135 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: and that's why he's getting in the pitch. It sounds 136 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: good the companies are coming here and they're living in 137 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: other countries, and we're going to produce more in the US. 138 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: But in reality, you need to have factories in Mexico, 139 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: and she knows that. I guess that's her leverage. Even 140 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 3: if he wants to. It's not that easy to move 141 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: that production to the US in one, two or three 142 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 3: four years. 143 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: So Philippe, we were quite interested in what was at 144 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 2: stake for Mexico over the next few years in managing 145 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: to dodge this particular bullet and did get some of 146 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: her other policies right. And you've helped Bloomberg reporters Alex 147 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: and others rise a big piece that's coming out about 148 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: Mexico being at a half trillion dollar crossroads. So talk 149 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: us through a little bit how much is at stake 150 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 2: for Mexico in the next few years. 151 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 5: Well, as you mentioned, we started by saying or acknowledging 152 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 5: that Shane Bound has been forced to deal with two 153 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 5: very strong forces, one external which is dealing with all 154 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 5: of Trump's immigration, security, and trade policies, and one which 155 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 5: is domestic, which is Shane bum having to deal with 156 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 5: Amulo's legacy and am lost legacy has to do with 157 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 5: his social programs. 158 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: As a previous the previous president Lorador, who is known as. 159 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 5: That correct so she has had to deal with what 160 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 5: he left, which were big social programs and state centric 161 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 5: economy and a couple of reforms that have concentrated power 162 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 5: in the executive branch and taking out away some power 163 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 5: from both Congress and more recently the judiciary power. The 164 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 5: exercise that we did was look at different scenario about 165 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 5: where with the Mexican economy would be five years from 166 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 5: now under different assumptions. One assumption would be a positive 167 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 5: scenario that would be an a scenario in which Mexico 168 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 5: manages to avoid higher tariffs on its exports to the 169 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 5: US and in which President Shambaum implements economic policies that 170 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 5: are more market friendly than those implemented by her predecessor, 171 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 5: President Lopez o Dador. And a negative scenario in which 172 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 5: Mexico ends up with tariffs that are in line with 173 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 5: those with the reciprocal tariff in post on other countries, 174 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 5: so that's an reciprocal tariff on ten percent on top 175 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 5: of the twenty five percent Sentennil related tariff, and in 176 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 5: which President Shambaum implements domestic economic policies in line with 177 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 5: those that were implemented during the term of Lopezo or 178 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 5: in power. And the results that we found is that 179 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 5: assuming that an average economic growth in the US of 180 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 5: around two percent over the next five years, Mexico would 181 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 5: grow by an average two point two percent every year, 182 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 5: so slightly above US growth that by the end of 183 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 5: that five year forecast period would imply that Mexico's GDP 184 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 5: would be roughly four point eight, almost five percentage points 185 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 5: higher than in their status school a scenario. On the 186 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 5: other hand, if Mexico winds up with reciprocal tariffs and 187 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 5: economic policies that are fairly rated as market and friendly, 188 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 5: then average economic growth over this five year period could 189 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 5: be close to zero, and Mexico's economy by the year 190 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 5: of twenty and thirty would be almost six percentage points 191 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,599 Speaker 5: lower than otherwise. 192 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 2: Basically, it's a choice between going up and going down 193 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 2: in a very sophisticated economic way, and the difference in 194 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: terms of additional growth is half a trillion dollars we 195 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: should say, I mean, so, although she's managed to avoid 196 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: the headlines, we do still have this uncertainty hanging over 197 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 2: the economy thanks to these sort of continual reprieves, but 198 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: also the times where the president decides to talk tough. 199 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: If he's still talking about these blanket tariffs, that uncertainty 200 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: must be pretty corrosive for the economy right now. Can't 201 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: carry on in definitely. 202 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 5: Like this absolutely, And actually when you look at the 203 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 5: figures for economic activity and the exports so far this year, 204 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 5: when people think about tariffs, they always think about what 205 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 5: will happen with trade and exports. When you look at 206 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 5: the exports numbers so far this year for Mexico, they 207 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 5: show that despite tariffs the fantany related tariffs imposed by 208 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 5: the US administration, exports to the US are still growing 209 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 5: and are still growing at a healthy pace. I would 210 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 5: say the real big negative impact so far on the 211 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 5: Mexican economy from tariffs has been on the investment side, 212 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 5: and that is actually exactly in line with the point 213 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 5: that you are making, and is the drag from this 214 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 5: uncertainty about what will happen with trade and tariffs in 215 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 5: the future, and how that has forced a lot of 216 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 5: companies that had investment plans in Mexico to put those 217 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 5: on hold. And there's a lot of companies with projects 218 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 5: that they are ready to start deploying that have decided 219 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 5: to just wait and see until they have real clarity 220 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 5: about what is going to happen in the bilateral relations 221 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 5: and bilateral trade between the two governments and. 222 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 2: Felipe. If you just look at the way things have 223 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 2: gone this year and the way that President Chinbaum has 224 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: managed to navigate this so far, would you say the 225 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: friend shoring model was still alive and you wouldn't count 226 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: it out just on the basis of what actually happened 227 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: this year, as opposed to just the rhetoric of Donald Trump. 228 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that there's a big pipeline of 229 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 5: investment projects, a lot of them that were born under 230 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 5: the mere shoring boom and all of the expectations about 231 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 5: how Mexico could benefit from these There's a lot of 232 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 5: these projects that are now on hold. I would say 233 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 5: that they are still on hold. They have not been 234 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 5: completely ruled out. And basically what many of the companies 235 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 5: that have these projects are waiting is for some clarity 236 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 5: regarding what is going to happen going forward in the 237 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 5: bilateral relations between Mexico and the US. As soon as 238 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 5: they have some clarity about that, they will make a 239 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 5: decision if they want to go ahead with these projects 240 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 5: or not. And I would say that going to ahea 241 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 5: head with these projects doesn't necessarily imply that Mexico will 242 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 5: not face some tariffs on their exports to the US. 243 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 5: There's a lot of projects that as long as Mexico 244 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 5: has more attractive tariffs than the rest of the world, 245 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 5: including Canada, will imply that maybe Mexico will end up 246 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 5: seeing the influence and the investment flows tied to those 247 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 5: projects as long, of course, as those tariffs also leave 248 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 5: Mexico in a position where it makes more sense for 249 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 5: the companies to invest in Mexico than in the US. 250 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 5: But given the differences in costs mainly labor costs, but 251 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 5: other costs as well, these are some projects that I 252 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 5: would say are still viable even with some tariffs in place, 253 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 5: which I think it's likely to be the final outcome 254 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 5: of all of these. But to answer your question, it 255 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 5: means that, yes, Mexico is in a position where a 256 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 5: lot of these near shoring projects would still be developed. 257 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: Alex I'm interested in how this is going down with 258 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: the Mexican public because President Scheinbam's got another five five 259 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: more years, so she's got a while. But you started 260 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 2: the podcast by saying she's given the president everything he wants. 261 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 2: Is there a perception that she's played this well or 262 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: that has been to quiet and meek with regard to 263 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,239 Speaker 2: the president house her popularity. 264 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: She's entering her second year and she remains highly popular. 265 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: She has more than seventy percent of approval ratings. Sometimes, 266 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 3: according to some pools, around eighty percent of appro rating it's. 267 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: Quite a lot more popular than President Trump or In 268 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: or indeed most other leaders. 269 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, even then Lopezo with at all, which is crazy, right. 270 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: So I guess she has managed to have two speeches. 271 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: One for the US public, the economy is the politicians, 272 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: where she's discussing these tray issues. She's pretty much recognizing 273 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 3: that she has to have a good relationship with Trump, 274 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 3: But she also has another speech for the base that's 275 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: pretty much Mexico is a sovereign country. The US will 276 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 3: never enter Mexico to try to dismantle fentany or laboratories, 277 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 3: or to detain drop traffickers or stop migration. She's very careful, 278 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 3: and we can see that when she's doing like a 279 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 3: rally in a state around the country. She goes to 280 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 3: this speech and that goes pretty well with the base. 281 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to assume that the base don't understand 282 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 3: what she's doing. 283 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: They do. 284 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 3: And when you talk to people that tell you she 285 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: has handled from pretty well. 286 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: The pesto is good, the pestot. 287 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: Is stronger, we don't have more tariff. She's raising the 288 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 3: minimum ways and that kind of stuff. We're getting the pension. 289 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 3: So people see that. I guess they're happy, and. 290 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: A small philosophical question. It's not a question at all. Ever, 291 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 2: since NAFTA, which is now more than thirty years ago, 292 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 2: the country has made a bet on being closer and 293 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 2: closer to the US, and as you described, alex the 294 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: integration of the supply chains has probably gone further than 295 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: anyone might have expected back in back when that treaty 296 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: was signed. These days we talk a lot about countries 297 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: looking to diversify, being concerned about the US being so 298 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: uncertain on being an unreliable ally these constant threats. He 299 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: seems to be particularly rude, often to his friends. Is 300 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: anyone questioning that? I mean, you would look at Mexico 301 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 2: and say, wouldn't be so bad to be a bit 302 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: more diversified in your exports, to not be so dependent 303 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: on the US. But is that even an option for Mexico. 304 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 3: In a normal scenario, this will be an option. But 305 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 3: we're in a moment that you just cannot upset Trump. 306 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: Mexico is improving a free trade deal with the European Union, 307 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 3: working on that. They're trying to have more cooperation and 308 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 3: more trade with Brazil, for example, which is a huge country. 309 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: But they're pretty shy about it. 310 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: Even Canada McCartney has sent to Mexico his main minister 311 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 3: is trying to reach a better bilateral deal between both 312 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 3: countries to be stronger for training negotiations. And what has 313 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: been the US response has been like, maybe the USMCA 314 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: negotiation will be bilateral instead of trade lateral, because he 315 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 3: knows that they're stronger together. So I guess that's one 316 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: of the complicated issues. Everybody knows that Mexico should diversify 317 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 3: its economy. I think the government is trying. It's being shy, 318 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 3: but it's trying. But it's hard because if you're sending 319 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 3: eighty percent of your experts and you're a manufacturing country, 320 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 3: you cannot upset your northern neighbor. 321 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 2: If you allow me. 322 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 5: Adding one more thing about that, and is that yes, 323 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 5: as Alex mentioned, government officials and people in Mexico would 324 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 5: like to have a better diversified trade, as you mentioned, 325 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 5: and as Alex was explaining, it's now probably not the 326 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 5: best time to do it. And there's like serious worries 327 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 5: about what would happen to Mexico if you jeopardize at 328 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 5: all the trade relations with the US. And because of 329 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 5: all of those constraints and concerns. Actually, along with the 330 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 5: budget for twenty twenty six, the government submitted the proposal 331 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 5: to impose tariffs on imports from China and other countries 332 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 5: into Mexico. Countries with which Mexico doesn't have a free 333 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 5: trade agreement. 334 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 2: Was that far after US pressure? Do you think? What 335 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: do you think was driving now? 336 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 5: It's well known that the US, as part of negotiating 337 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 5: with Mexico, wants to make sure that Mexico implements some 338 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 5: trade barriers with China in order to make sure that 339 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 5: China is not used in Mexico and third countries to 340 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 5: serve convent the tariffs that the US has imposed on China. 341 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 5: There's a lot of talk and actually some evidence that 342 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 5: shows that exports from China to Mexico have sharply increased 343 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 5: in the last couple of years, which coincides with the 344 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 5: increasing US tariffs on imports from China, and that has 345 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 5: all inspired or points to some triangulation of exports from 346 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 5: China through Mexico that finally end up in the US 347 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 5: to avoid US tariffs. The US is aware of these 348 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 5: and has asked to Mexico to take steps in order 349 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 5: to prevent these and the initiative for Mexico to impose 350 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 5: tariffs on their imports from China is pretty much aligned 351 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 5: with that. I think is part of Mexico's attempt to 352 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 5: have something to show to the US about their willingness 353 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 5: to cooperate and their hope that with steps like those, 354 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 5: they are showing the commitment that they have to have a 355 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 5: lateral relationship with the US, and then they are willing 356 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 5: to compromise in order to secure that the free trade 357 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 5: agreement with next with the US will remain in place 358 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 5: once it's reviewed next year. 359 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 3: And I'm glad philipp mentioned that, if I may it, 360 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: because she sent this proposal to Congress. We're talking about 361 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 3: like more than a thousand categories of products, including steel, toys, textiles, shoes, 362 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: you name it. We have a lot of stuff, but 363 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: this you would expect that Congress would pass it like 364 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 3: right away because they have the majority. They decided to 365 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 3: delay the discussion, and I've been talking to several lawmakers 366 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 3: from the ruling party, and I guess this is when 367 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 3: you know these old school groups from Lopezo re Alora, 368 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 3: they're not that happy to raising tariffs on China because 369 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 3: they want to have a good relationship. 370 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: You CUsing off your options. 371 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and they want to keep a good 372 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 3: relationship China. So this is a perfect example that maybe 373 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 3: she doesn't have a strong real opposition, but within the party, 374 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 3: she's not breed to do whatever she wants. So they're 375 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 3: discussing this, trying to move the numbers a little bit. 376 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 3: So this doesn't look too bad for China. Still pleases 377 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 3: strump So that's the balance. 378 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 2: Both of you. Just very quickly, if people who are 379 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 2: not tuning in to Mexico very often, maybe occasionally see 380 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: President Scheinbaum come in a viral clip when she's talking 381 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: about the Gulf of Mexico versus the Gulf of America. 382 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: Are their potential flash points in the next few months 383 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: that we should look at, because we've talked about a 384 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: very narrow line that she has to walk between some 385 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 2: of this kind of internal opposition, not very much, but 386 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 2: some concern and instincts versus the pressure from the US 387 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 2: and the vital importance of that trading relationship. What are 388 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 2: the things to watch out for over the next few 389 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: months to know how this is going to go. 390 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 5: I would pay attention to two things, or basically one 391 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 5: acknowledging that the external front is very important. But on 392 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 5: that front, the final decision really or I would say 393 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 5: seventy five percent of the decision or the outcome on 394 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 5: that front is not under shame Baum's control, but on 395 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 5: the White House and President Trump. So yes, keep an 396 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 5: eye on that, but be aware that Trump is still 397 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 5: probably the one that will decide the end result of that, 398 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 5: with some input from Shameebaum, and of course a lot 399 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 5: based on how Shaanebaum deals with Trump, which until now 400 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 5: she has done fairly well, and therefore I would assume 401 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 5: she will continue to do. And I'll be not so 402 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 5: worried about what Shamee Baum does about the trade relationship 403 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 5: with the US, but more about what Trump does on 404 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 5: that front. I would pay more attention to what Shane 405 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 5: Baum says regarding domestic economic policies. How much shame Boum 406 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 5: really moves away from the attack from her predecessor, Ovador 407 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 5: attacks against the private industry and private investment. How at 408 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 5: least from what we have seen so far, she keeps 409 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 5: moving forward with a more market friendly economic policy framework, 410 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 5: which is starting to generate a little bit more of 411 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 5: confidence and optimism domestically among private investment investors. As long 412 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 5: as she keeps moving in that direction, I would say 413 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 5: investors and people that follow Mexico could be a little 414 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 5: bit more optimistic about Mexico's outlook. And as we have 415 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 5: discussed so far in this podcast, she still has to 416 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 5: strike a balance between the more market friendly economic policies 417 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 5: and those policies that her predecessor was implementing which were 418 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 5: not that friendly, but that she needs to make sure 419 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 5: that she keeps his support to make sure that Governori 420 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 5: doesn't turn into an issue for her. 421 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with what Felipe is saying. I think 422 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 3: in the external front, the only thing we should expect, 423 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 3: probably for the next three years, is uncertainty. We don't 424 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 3: know what's going to happen. I think markets are really 425 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 3: pretty well what's going on. We're seeing the PESL very strong, 426 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 3: the Mexican bonds, so I think the market is reading that. 427 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 3: I think the current deal we have is good for Trump, 428 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 3: That's why it hasn't changed. It seems like he came 429 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 3: to power yesterday, but it's been almost a year, so 430 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 3: I don't think things are going to change much for Mexico. Obviously, 431 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 3: we have the free Trade review and we should keep 432 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 3: special attention to that. But I agree with Philippe, we 433 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: should pay special attention to the domestic front. And she's 434 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 3: doing efforts to maybe not diversify the economy, but the 435 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 3: endless on the US. She proposed in January, knowing what 436 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 3: Trunk was going to do to create these development hobs. 437 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 3: These are some development hubs in different areas in the 438 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 3: country to attract investment. 439 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: Since near sharing was low. 440 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 3: In because everybody knew TRUP was going to win, she's 441 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 3: giving tax incentives to foreign companies to invest in Mexico. 442 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 3: I visited a couple and this is just empty land yet, 443 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 3: so this shows a little bit that the investment are 444 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 3: not here. So we should pay attention to what she's 445 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 3: going to do to attract investment. And I think the 446 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 3: key sector is energy. Mexico lacks energy, and if especially 447 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 3: power generation and transmission, and if you want companies to come, 448 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 3: we need to see more energy projects and we're not 449 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 3: seeing that right now. 450 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: So I guess that's the key. 451 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: If she is able to attract investment, that's the only 452 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 3: way to depend less on the US. 453 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 2: I guess you should have to keep getting to the 454 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: empty bit of ground, look for green shoots. Well, if 455 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 2: anybody from a President Chinbaum staff is listening, or I 456 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: do the President herself, she is more than welcome to 457 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: come on Trumpnomics and explain exactly how she's going to 458 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 2: navigate these difficult waters. I'm going to be in Mexico 459 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: myself in early December. I'll be happy to go and 460 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 2: see her anytime, any place. But in the meantime we 461 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 2: have something almost as good. Filipe and Alex, thank you 462 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: so much. 463 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, Stephanie, thank you too. 464 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to trump Andomics from Bloomberg. It was 465 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: hosted by me, Stephanie Flanders, and I was joined this 466 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: week by Bloomberg's Alex Vaswez and Philip Bernandez. Trump Andomics 467 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 2: was produced by Sammasadi and Moses and Am, with help 468 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: from Amy Keene and special thanks to Rachel Lewis Chrisky. 469 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 2: Sound design is by Blake Maples and Kelly Gary, and 470 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 2: Sage Bowman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. To help others 471 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 2: find the show, please rate it and review it highly 472 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: wherever you listen.