WEBVTT - Grief Author Murder Trial Shocker: The Defense Rests Seconds After Prosecution!

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, the folks, it is Thursday, March twelfth, and we

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<v Speaker 1>just got a major update and maybe even a major

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<v Speaker 1>shocker in the Corey Richins murder trial aka the Grief

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<v Speaker 1>author murder trial aka the poisoned husband murder trial. The

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<v Speaker 1>major update, the prosecution has rested, and ten seconds after that,

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<v Speaker 1>the defense rested without calling a single witness, and with that,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rowe didn't

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<v Speaker 1>see this one coming.

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<v Speaker 2>We did not see this one coming. In fact, as

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<v Speaker 2>early as this morning, the defense suggested that they had

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<v Speaker 2>witnesses to call. Specifically, they indicated they had three witnesses

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<v Speaker 2>that they were going to be calling to the stand,

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<v Speaker 2>So everyone was expecting them to actually put on a defense.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, they don't have to.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the burden, the burden of proof is on.

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<v Speaker 2>The prosecution, and we've certainly seen this in other trials.

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<v Speaker 2>Diddy's trial probably comes to mind as one of the

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<v Speaker 2>more recent and big trials where we saw this happen.

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<v Speaker 2>But we were actually just thinking we were going to

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<v Speaker 2>hear whether or not Corey Richins herself was going to testify,

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<v Speaker 2>not that no one was going to testify.

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<v Speaker 1>No and Robes, we had very good reason based on, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>watching this entire trial, but we had very good reason

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<v Speaker 1>to think this case was going to go on based

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<v Speaker 1>on what happened today in court. The lawyers have been

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<v Speaker 1>lawyering and arguing over a particular legal issue for the

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<v Speaker 1>past several days, and today they got in court going

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth over getting some particular piece of evidence in.

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<v Speaker 1>So the jury didn't even hear testimony today. They were

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<v Speaker 1>arguing in code outside of the jury road. So the

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<v Speaker 1>defense was fighting, fighting to almost begging the judge for

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<v Speaker 1>certain things to come in because they were getting ready

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<v Speaker 1>to put on their case. The judge even shocked when

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<v Speaker 1>they said we rest.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Everyone was not expecting that, because yes, the defense

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<v Speaker 2>was fiery. They were trying to get in some way,

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<v Speaker 2>shape or form, some way of getting testimony in. That

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<v Speaker 2>indicated this man from twenty nineteen who claimed that he

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<v Speaker 2>had a conversation with the victim in this cake case,

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<v Speaker 2>Eric Richards, who asked about fentanyl. And so when the

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<v Speaker 2>judge basically ultimately, and this was a little surprising, ruled

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<v Speaker 2>that they could bring it into testimony. Except for the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that the prosecution was going to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>bring in other witnesses to rebuke that and to refute it,

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<v Speaker 2>and to perhaps even bring other things into evidence that

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<v Speaker 2>the defense didn't want it. And so basically, after they

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<v Speaker 2>took an hour break to talk with Corey Richins to

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<v Speaker 2>decide what they wanted to do, they came back and

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<v Speaker 2>said defense rests.

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<v Speaker 1>No, they did not start the day when they woke

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<v Speaker 1>up this morning, they did not think they were going

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<v Speaker 1>to rest their case. Something happened and that if something

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<v Speaker 1>whatever development today in court, well and all that back

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<v Speaker 1>and forth and they had to make that call. It

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<v Speaker 1>was fascinating. It was fascinating to watch this lawyering.

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<v Speaker 2>It was so interesting, and the jury saw none of it,

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't you say the past several days we have watched

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<v Speaker 2>back and forth and more lawyering going on behind the

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<v Speaker 2>scenes without the jury present than we have actually hearing

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<v Speaker 2>testimony occur in front of the jury.

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<v Speaker 1>And even when they are in there hearing testimony, it's

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<v Speaker 1>constant sidebar. Can we approach, judge? You can't get a

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<v Speaker 1>good flow almost even through this trial, and I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>they have to be frustrated. But now they get to

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<v Speaker 1>go home and sit on this until Monday. Whoo.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, because here's what happens next Tomorrow, only the defense

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<v Speaker 2>and the prosecution without the jury are going to meet

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<v Speaker 2>up with the judge and go over jury instructions. And

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<v Speaker 2>with the way the back and forth, the fighting that

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<v Speaker 2>has been going on between the attorneys and with the judge,

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<v Speaker 2>this probably will be entertaining as all get out, and

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<v Speaker 2>it usually isn't when you're discussing jury instructions. But I

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<v Speaker 2>have a feeling they won't agree on almost anything they.

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<v Speaker 1>Got the day they got what time already say they're

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<v Speaker 1>back tomorrow, even gave them some like one o'click.

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<v Speaker 2>Not until one pm tomorrow will they be back to

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<v Speaker 2>go over the jury instructions. And then the schedule will

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<v Speaker 2>be that Monday at eight thirty am local time, that's

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<v Speaker 2>Mountain time, there will be closing arguments and the jury

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<v Speaker 2>will get their case.

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<v Speaker 3>They will begin deliberating.

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<v Speaker 2>I have imagined what it must be like to be

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<v Speaker 2>a juror on this case, because, first of all, this

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<v Speaker 2>is this is a court case that has gripped the nation.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's been so many stops and starts, and they've

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<v Speaker 2>been back in this room, sequestered, thinking what the hell

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<v Speaker 2>is going on in the courtroom?

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<v Speaker 3>Without us.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, they have been not in the courtroom for

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<v Speaker 2>significant chunks of time.

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<v Speaker 1>And they have no idea all this we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>They are not allowed to watch coverage. They have no

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<v Speaker 1>idea about what the arguments have been and why so

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<v Speaker 1>much evidence we are as the public, are aware of.

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<v Speaker 1>They will never hear in conversations that I have. This

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<v Speaker 1>is so interesting, So robes. I imagine as you speak on

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<v Speaker 1>the jury, the frustration in when the trial is actually

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<v Speaker 1>going on, Robes, they've been sitting in there. Look, we

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<v Speaker 1>watch a lot of trials, not just recently but over

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<v Speaker 1>the years, roads the constant stop, can we approach judge?

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<v Speaker 1>Can we approach judge? You can't get two questions in

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<v Speaker 1>can we approach judge? Objection? That part has been exhausting,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure the jurors that had to not just

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<v Speaker 1>to go, hey, send me back to the room a

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<v Speaker 1>least like to take a bathroom break. We're sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>here watching it. It's been hard for us to watch.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're not supposed to talk amongst themselves either, so

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<v Speaker 2>they're not even supposed to be guessing what's going on?

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<v Speaker 2>What do you guys think is happening? I mean, none

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<v Speaker 2>of that is actually even supposed to be going on.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're supposed to just sit there quietly, not look

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<v Speaker 2>up the case, not discuss the case, and somehow occupy yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>But look, just to remind everyone, this is a trial

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<v Speaker 2>where Corey Richand's thirty five year old mom of three

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<v Speaker 2>is accused of poisoning her husband to death. She's charged

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<v Speaker 2>with aggravated murder attempted criminal homicide, and that's because prosecutors

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<v Speaker 2>say she tried to poison her husband with a Valentine's

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<v Speaker 2>Day sandwich. When that didn't work, she went back got

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<v Speaker 2>more potent ventanyl pills, and they claim then she laced.

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<v Speaker 3>A moscow mule.

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<v Speaker 2>And all of this while she had a lover waiting

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<v Speaker 2>in the wings. She had multimillion dollar real estate deals

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<v Speaker 2>going on, and she was in debt by multi millions

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<v Speaker 2>of dollars. And oh, by the way, she authored a

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<v Speaker 2>children's book about grief in the middle of all of this.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, you can.

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<v Speaker 2>Understand why this has been a case that has gotten

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<v Speaker 2>the nation's attention.

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<v Speaker 1>And the key to this case is where did he

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<v Speaker 1>get the fentanyl that ended up killing him? And Rose

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<v Speaker 1>nobody knows is she going to walk out of that

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<v Speaker 1>courtroom a free woman or maybe facing a mistrial here.

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<v Speaker 1>But Robes, that's key. Are you going to send this

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<v Speaker 1>woman to prison for life for fentanyl that we actually

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<v Speaker 1>do not know how he got it?

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>So we've heard three nearly three full weeks of testimony.

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<v Speaker 2>We've heard from the former housekeeper, Carmen Lauber, who was

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much the prosecution's star witness. We've heard from all

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<v Speaker 2>of the investigators. We've heard from Corey Richan's lover. That

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<v Speaker 2>was a very emotional part of the trial where we

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<v Speaker 2>it spoke to motive in part, but we also ended

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<v Speaker 2>with this leading investigator, Jeff O'Driscoll, and that went on

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<v Speaker 2>for what a couple of days. But the prosecution has

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<v Speaker 2>laid out their case and it is clear, we know

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<v Speaker 2>that Eric Richards died from fentanyl poisoning. But as you

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<v Speaker 2>pointed out, and this is the defense's main strategy here,

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<v Speaker 2>no one can tell the jury how it got in

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<v Speaker 2>his system. No one can prove how it got into

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<v Speaker 2>a system, or at least.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody can prove how he got it, how he was

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<v Speaker 1>in possession of it. Nobody can say he ever took

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<v Speaker 1>a drug in his entire life. And yet the theory

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<v Speaker 1>from the defense is just that this man had a

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<v Speaker 1>secret drug problem. He kept it from everybody in his life,

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<v Speaker 1>the people he was closest to, nobody knew. She's not

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<v Speaker 1>saying she knew it either, is she.

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<v Speaker 2>She is saying that she knew he like pain pills,

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<v Speaker 2>and she talked a lot about how he did have

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<v Speaker 2>his stash of drugs. Didn't get specific that he would

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<v Speaker 2>put in her suitcases when they traveled, that he needed

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<v Speaker 2>pain medication.

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<v Speaker 1>You remember, they were all with friends and whatnot, and

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<v Speaker 1>all people saw were the marijuana gummies. That's there is

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<v Speaker 1>nobody in this man's life who can put a drug

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<v Speaker 1>outside of a marijuana gummy and a pain pill that

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<v Speaker 1>was prescribed to him in his hand in his entire life.

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<v Speaker 1>That says something ropes. But at the same time, their

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<v Speaker 1>star witness, this Carmen Lawber, who apparently went and bought

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<v Speaker 1>the drugs for Corey Richmonds, she is just throw just

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<v Speaker 1>forget her that they eviscerated her and her character and

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<v Speaker 1>her testimony. They just ripped this woman.

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote, the defense made major inroads in undermining Carmen

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<v Speaker 2>Lauber's credibility and they certainly did.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh could she? They destroyed her to the point I

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<v Speaker 1>felt bad for the woman.

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<v Speaker 2>Yet not only is she a recovering addict, it came

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<v Speaker 2>out that she violated her parole multiple times, that she

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<v Speaker 2>the drug court, Yes, the drug court, sorry, yes, violated

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<v Speaker 2>the drug Court. And also just hearing and we got

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<v Speaker 2>to watch lead investigators talk to her initially about cooperating

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<v Speaker 2>with the prosecution, and you can see the sweetheart deal

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<v Speaker 2>she got. She was looking at seven years in prison

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<v Speaker 2>for violating drug court, and all of a sudden they said,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you help us prosecute Corey Richins, we can

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<v Speaker 2>make that all go away.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but you know it well, when the defense says

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<v Speaker 1>it one way, it sounds like, oh, that's a big time,

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<v Speaker 1>And then the prosecution comes back and say it well

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<v Speaker 1>with context that who knows, these jurors have been paying attention.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm always shocked at what jurors end up doing, But

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<v Speaker 1>I would not be shocked if they come back in

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<v Speaker 1>here and say we are deadlocked. Come back here and

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<v Speaker 1>say there's a mistrial because Robes, I'm not a circumstantial

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<v Speaker 1>evidence guy.

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<v Speaker 2>I am.

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<v Speaker 1>If I was on a jury, I would struggle sending

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<v Speaker 1>somebody to prison the rest of their lives, and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't have a smoking gun.

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<v Speaker 2>It feels like though most of these trials often are circumstantial,

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<v Speaker 2>and clearly we have seen prosecutors be successful in trying

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<v Speaker 2>a case based solely on circumstantial evidence, and there is

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<v Speaker 2>significant amount of it. Remember those searches on Corey Richmond's phones,

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<v Speaker 2>don't those searches always tend to do in a defendant

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<v Speaker 2>how they explained those they didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't explain, And you're right, this adds up. This

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<v Speaker 1>is one of those things just like in the old

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<v Speaker 1>pair affair murder truck. Correct, It adds up enough that

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<v Speaker 1>you have to ask yourself, wait a minute, I'm not stupid.

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<v Speaker 1>It actually gets to that, and like, oh yeah, wait

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<v Speaker 1>a minute, because the defense did all they could in

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<v Speaker 1>this case Robes by just throwing things against the wall,

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<v Speaker 1>just saying aha, but you know what, he went to Mexico.

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<v Speaker 3>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>You know a lot of fennol comes from Mexico. That

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<v Speaker 1>was a lot of their case. Does that work against

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<v Speaker 1>the juror?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>They are planting seeds of doubt. The question is does

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<v Speaker 2>it create reasonable doubt? That's the threshold. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>fair to say they have absolutely cast some doubt in

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecution series, but is it reasonable doubt?

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<v Speaker 1>Where I struggle. But like we said, it was a

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<v Speaker 1>shock today to see that they absolutely switched things up

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<v Speaker 1>and decided they wanted to rest their case without calling

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<v Speaker 1>a single witness. Well, we have a pretty good theory

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<v Speaker 1>as to why stay here we continue here on Amian TJ.

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<v Speaker 1>This is again not an episode and not an update

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<v Speaker 1>we were expecting today because we were expecting the Corey

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Strokes to continue, but prosecution wrapped up its case today.

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<v Speaker 1>They rested, and immediately afterwards the defense rested to the

0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.960
<v Speaker 1>surprise of us, to the surprise of many in the courtroom,

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.679
<v Speaker 1>including the judge, because it didn't look like that's the

0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.880
<v Speaker 1>way things were going. I think, road there's no other

0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:53.559
<v Speaker 1>way to put it. Why would you rest your case

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:55.600
<v Speaker 1>without calling a witness.

0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:00.960
<v Speaker 2>That's only if you believe you proved or poked enough

0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:06.720
<v Speaker 2>holes in the prosecution's case through cross examination that you

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.320
<v Speaker 2>don't need to put anybody else up there. And if

0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the people who were on the list, I believe we

0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.760
<v Speaker 2>had thought maybe her mother was going to testify, maybe

0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 2>her brother was going to testify maybe this guy who

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 2>claims if it had been allowed that Eric Richards talked

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 2>about fentanyl seven years ago. But look, they have to

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 2>weigh the cross examination with the direct questioning, and they

0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.319
<v Speaker 2>clearly thought that it would do more harm than good,

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.679
<v Speaker 2>and they felt like through the cross they poked enough holes,

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:42.200
<v Speaker 2>they created enough reasonable doubt. And yesterday we did say,

0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.920
<v Speaker 2>as we watched that whole trial yesterday, and it was

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:50.560
<v Speaker 2>a long one, Corey Richands' facial expressions changed. Her attorney

0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 2>absolutely started scoring points with the investigator with Carmen Lauber

0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 2>when she was recalled yesterday. So that housekeeper, the woman

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.599
<v Speaker 2>who is accused of selling the drugs or giving the

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 2>drugs to Corey Richins who purchased them from her, they

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:11.400
<v Speaker 2>did do a very good job at dismantling a lot

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 2>of her credibility and her testimony. And so they had

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.600
<v Speaker 2>a pretty good day yesterday, and they think it was

0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.040
<v Speaker 2>a really good day apparently, And why.

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.640
<v Speaker 1>I messed with that right, very good to go. I'll

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 1>never forget that the prosecutor friend of ours after when

0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 1>it happened to Agnefilo did it in the ditty trial, Like

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.840
<v Speaker 1>why would they do this? Big of stakes. Why would

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 1>they do that the response she gave us, because they

0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 1>think they already won. That's why you don't put on witnesses.

0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.240
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing to do. You've put on your entire case

0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 1>just using their witnesses. We have already won this case.

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.680
<v Speaker 1>And to hear something like that, it happened with Agnefhilo.

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I know Diddy's in jail right now, he'll be out soon.

0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>He won't be in jail for the rest of his life,

0:14:58.960 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 2>which is what he was facing.

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 3>And then we see what happened with.

0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 2>The For those of you us, those of you who

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.360
<v Speaker 2>have followed our trial coverage with the old pair, a

0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.480
<v Speaker 2>fair trial. We saw Brendan Banfield take the stand. They

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>put on a robust defense with witnesses and testimony from

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Brendan Banfield himself.

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.400
<v Speaker 3>How that go for them? Not so well?

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.680
<v Speaker 1>No, broath, I am jury's I have no idea, and

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.480
<v Speaker 1>most attorneys will tell you as well, Yeah, we can

0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 1>guess all day. We try to read the tea leaves.

0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Every attorney will tell you we have no idea what

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 1>this jury is going to do. So one of the

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.400
<v Speaker 1>hot ball This is a pretty significant update in a

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 1>trial that we thought would go through next week even

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.240
<v Speaker 1>but it is the jury will be deliberating by Monday.

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we thought the big update might be that Corey

0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Richins would or would not testify. Nope, We're talking closing

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>arguments and jury deliberation, and it's happening next week on Monday.

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Of course, we will continue to monitor all the developments

0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 2>from that courtroom in Utah. Thank you, though in the

0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.120
<v Speaker 2>meantime for listening to us. We always appreciate you. I'm

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Amy Robot alongside t. J.

0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 3>Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.