WEBVTT - Split Brain, Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>The powers of Hide seemed to have grown with the

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<v Speaker 1>sickliness of Jackyal, and certainly the hate that now divided

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<v Speaker 1>them was equal on each side. With Jekyll, it was

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<v Speaker 1>a thing of vital instinct. He had now seen the

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<v Speaker 1>full deformity of that creature that shared with him some

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<v Speaker 1>of the phenomena of consciousness, and was co heir with

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<v Speaker 1>him to death and beyond these links of community, which

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<v Speaker 1>in themselves made the most poignant part of his distress.

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<v Speaker 1>He thought of Hide for all his energy of life,

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<v Speaker 1>as of something not only hellish but inorganic. This was

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<v Speaker 1>the shocking thing that the slime of the pit seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to utter, cries and voices, that the amorphous dust gesticulated

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<v Speaker 1>and sinned, that what was dead and had no shape

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<v Speaker 1>should usurp the offices of life. Welcome to stuff to

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<v Speaker 1>Blow your mind from How Stuff Works dot Com. Hey

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<v Speaker 1>you welcome to up to blow your mind. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and Robert. Why

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<v Speaker 1>are you reading Robert Louis Stevenson at us Oh, Because

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<v Speaker 1>that's from the Strange Case of Dr Jackel and Mr

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<v Speaker 1>Hyde from eighteen eighty six, and it concerns the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of there being two entities within the human skull, two

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<v Speaker 1>entities within the mind, indeed two minds within the brain.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think this is an interesting place to start

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<v Speaker 1>because while it presents a very erroneous vision of the

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<v Speaker 1>lateralization of human brain function, it also, uh, it gets

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<v Speaker 1>some of the same like hair standing up on the

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<v Speaker 1>back of the neck, that the actual research we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about today does, at least for me. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Robert Louis Stevenson was a fabulous writer and

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<v Speaker 1>he's he's one of those authors that you can read

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<v Speaker 1>today and it holds up so well. Did they ever

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<v Speaker 1>make a good Jackal and Hyde movie. It's been a

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<v Speaker 1>very long time since I've saw it, but there was

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<v Speaker 1>an adaptation. It may have been a TV adaptation with

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Caine Michael Kine. Yeah, And I remember really loving

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<v Speaker 1>that and being quite disturbed by it as a child. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking there had to be a Jekyl and

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<v Speaker 1>Hyde with Tim Curry as Jackal and Hyde. But I

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<v Speaker 1>think maybe I'm confusing that with the Muppet Treasure Island,

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<v Speaker 1>where he's You're thinking of the Muppet Jacky and High

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<v Speaker 1>he's long John silver Man, that scene where he tramples

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<v Speaker 1>Kermit to death is brutal. Well, yeah, so so we

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<v Speaker 1>are we are beginning with kind of an erroneous model.

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<v Speaker 1>But but I think helpful and because it is often

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<v Speaker 1>easy to think of the brain as the thing itself, right,

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<v Speaker 1>we fall into this center, our mode of of of

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, the thinking of the brain body relationship

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<v Speaker 1>as being a rider and its horse, when instead it

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<v Speaker 1>is more this idea of a centaur, this this this

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<v Speaker 1>one single entity, um, you know, and honestly, we see

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<v Speaker 1>this reflected in so many real and fictional scenarios. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Take for instance, the late physicist Stephen Hawking a brilliant

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<v Speaker 1>brain within a body that was gradually paralyzed by motor

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<v Speaker 1>neuron disease. Or just look to our dreams in which

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<v Speaker 1>the inner world of the brain runs wild while the

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<v Speaker 1>body goes un lockdown own. Uh you know, think of

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<v Speaker 1>our imaginings, our inner thoughts versus our outer smile. And

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<v Speaker 1>then there are all those disembodied brains and science fiction

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<v Speaker 1>right from Crying and his robot body and teenaging Ninja

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<v Speaker 1>Turtles to the Brain that Wouldn't Die Cane and RoboCop

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<v Speaker 1>to one of the best I know that's one of

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<v Speaker 1>one of your favorites as well, greatest of all time lovecrafts,

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<v Speaker 1>The Whisper and Darkness, and so many Doctor Who characters,

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<v Speaker 1>especially the Daleks brain guy from MST three Ky. We

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<v Speaker 1>just keep keep coming up with these these visions of

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<v Speaker 1>the brain as the just sort of the central human

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<v Speaker 1>thought experience. You know, I never thought of this until now,

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<v Speaker 1>but actually the brain guy from Mystery Science Theater is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a great illustration of Daniel Dennett's short story

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<v Speaker 1>thought Experiment where am I I wonder if there was

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<v Speaker 1>any connection there. Someone have to have to have to

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<v Speaker 1>reach out to the the MST guys on that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there are those like plot lines where his brain gets

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<v Speaker 1>separated from him and somewhere else. Um. Of course, we

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<v Speaker 1>know that things are not this simple. No brain is

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<v Speaker 1>an island. It's affected by a host of outside influences,

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<v Speaker 1>including all sorts of environmental nervous stimuli. And we're learning

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<v Speaker 1>more and more about the role of our microbiome and

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<v Speaker 1>various parasites in human cognition. But even if we're to

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<v Speaker 1>just strip away all of that, if we're actually to

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<v Speaker 1>become a brain and a tank, you know, Kane's brain

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<v Speaker 1>in RoboCop two or or any of these sci fi

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<v Speaker 1>visions take out all that external stuff, just the brain.

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<v Speaker 1>We still have to contend with the fact that the brain,

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<v Speaker 1>like a government, is composed of different houses. The brain

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<v Speaker 1>consists of two cerebral hemispheres connected by the corpus colossum uh,

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<v Speaker 1>each each hemisphere with many different modules, all of these

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<v Speaker 1>acting in concert with each other, all of it interconnected. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>One comparison I've seen in some of the neuroscience research

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<v Speaker 1>we're looking at today is that the brain is often

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<v Speaker 1>described as a computer, you know, or by the metaphor

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<v Speaker 1>of a computer. You know. It's not that it is

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<v Speaker 1>a computer, but that Yeah, there's the analogy that the

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<v Speaker 1>brain is like a computer in the different parts of

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<v Speaker 1>the brain and are maybe sort of like different programs

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<v Speaker 1>that run on that computer. But at least one researcher

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<v Speaker 1>we were reading I said, maybe it's more accurate to

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<v Speaker 1>think of the brain not as a computer running different software,

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<v Speaker 1>but as a vast network of computers that are each

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<v Speaker 1>capable of operating independently, but most of the time operate

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<v Speaker 1>in in tandem. It's right. This is an example where

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't really have much of an understanding of

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<v Speaker 1>how computer works, the the the idea of thinking of

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<v Speaker 1>the human mind as a computer as technology is is

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<v Speaker 1>more harmful. But if you have, if you have a

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<v Speaker 1>better understanding of how computer actually works, it could perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>be a more helpful metaphor cuttle cats cuttle fish to

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<v Speaker 1>the second oil age and kingdom with or of darkness.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't dispute the eurostata, but if he's down here,

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<v Speaker 1>we know not blood but darkness, the earth's black riches.

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<v Speaker 1>No I could taste it on my lips. Today, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk to you about the science of transgenesis

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<v Speaker 1>tens genesis dot show now I wanted to to I

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<v Speaker 1>think it would be helpful to just go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>consider one particular question right up top now. And we've

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<v Speaker 1>certainly received questions like this following episodes in which brain

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<v Speaker 1>hemispheres are discussed, such as our discussions on the bicameral

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<v Speaker 1>mind hypothesis or the alphabet in the Goddess. Because there's

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of pop understanding, right that each side of

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<v Speaker 1>our brain controlled certain aspects of being, and that certain

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<v Speaker 1>individuals have certain leanings that you know you have, right

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<v Speaker 1>brain people left brain people, and that when that we

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<v Speaker 1>can reconnect with our less favored hemisphere. Now, there certainly

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<v Speaker 1>are some pieces of evidence that we're gonna look at

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<v Speaker 1>in this episode that certain functions of human life are

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<v Speaker 1>strongly lateralized in one half of the brain or the other,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're not necessarily these functions or personality traits that

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<v Speaker 1>are understood in popular consciousness like logic and creativity, right

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<v Speaker 1>like taking or that you're gonna take some sort of

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<v Speaker 1>a quiz online and find out if you're a right

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<v Speaker 1>or lefty in terms of your brain. Now, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of these ideas apparently were popularized by nineteen seventy nine

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<v Speaker 1>book title Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain

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<v Speaker 1>by Betty Edwards. Uh, and the downstream myth that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of uh, you know, took over a popular culture for

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. There is that, yeah, you had left

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<v Speaker 1>side logic, right side creativity. And even in people who

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<v Speaker 1>know better people, we still talk like this. I've noticed

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<v Speaker 1>that I use this metaphor even though I know it's wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I will sometimes think of people as being very

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<v Speaker 1>right brained or very left brained, even though that I

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<v Speaker 1>know that that I've read before about how that's not correct. Well, likewise,

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<v Speaker 1>if I hear it mentioned saying a yoga class, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be less inclined. I'm not going to be the

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<v Speaker 1>jerk in the yoga class that like perks up and

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<v Speaker 1>says act l A, there's some interesting you know, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna set back and enjoy the class because because

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<v Speaker 1>it's one of those things that can can feel true. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>But the idea goes back further than this particular book here.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it goes back to some of the earlier

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<v Speaker 1>discoveries that we're going to discuss here about hemispheric division. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the ideas of neurologist Paul Broca who lived

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen four through eighty French neurologist or Carl Vernica who

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<v Speaker 1>lived who lived eighteen forty eight through nineteen o five,

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<v Speaker 1>a German. They studied patients who had communication troubles due

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<v Speaker 1>to brain injury UM, such as you know, left temporal

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<v Speaker 1>lobe injuries, and they figured that this was the language center.

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<v Speaker 1>Thus language was left hemisphere focus. And this is one

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<v Speaker 1>thing that actually has been more born out by good

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<v Speaker 1>research in in the history of neuroscience, is that one

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<v Speaker 1>thing it's very clear the left hemisphere of the brain does,

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<v Speaker 1>is it is dominant in language function. It's not that

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<v Speaker 1>the right brain can't do any language, but it can't

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<v Speaker 1>do a whole lot of language certainly can't do what

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<v Speaker 1>the left hemisphere can do. Right Uh now we we

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<v Speaker 1>kicked off the episode with reading from Robert Louis Stevenson

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<v Speaker 1>against Scottish author He lived eighteen fifty eight and according

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<v Speaker 1>to neuroscientist Elizabeth Waters, who's put together some you know,

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful ted talks and ted ed videos about this, uh this, this,

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<v Speaker 1>uh this topic, she points out that Robert Lewis Stevenson,

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<v Speaker 1>in his book Strange Case of Dr Checkl and Mr Hyde,

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<v Speaker 1>presented the notion of a logical left hemisphere that is

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<v Speaker 1>in combat in you know, in in in in this

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<v Speaker 1>uh this struggle with an emotional right hemisphere, and uh

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<v Speaker 1>it's It's also worth noting that Robert Lewis Stevenson was

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<v Speaker 1>also inspired by two popular French cases of individuals who

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<v Speaker 1>exhibited dual personalities, uh their name. They were credited as

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<v Speaker 1>being uh Felida X and Sergeant Fay. And these were

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<v Speaker 1>apparently cases that were really you know, well covered in

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<v Speaker 1>French and British press at the time. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of popular science influencing, uh, popular science fiction. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you have any sense of whether what was presented to

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<v Speaker 1>the public about these cases was largely accurate or was compleating.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't, but I'd love to go back and look

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<v Speaker 1>at it, because you know, this is a case where

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<v Speaker 1>you can the science influences the science fiction, and the

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<v Speaker 1>science fiction influences, uh to a certain extent, how the

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<v Speaker 1>public thinks about a given topic. Now, other another influence

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<v Speaker 1>on Robert Louis Stevenson. Apparently he had a just a

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<v Speaker 1>terribly high fever, uh at one point during which he

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<v Speaker 1>claimed to have experienced a split into which he experienced

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<v Speaker 1>quote myself and quote that other fellow. Yeah, so this

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<v Speaker 1>apparently had a big influence on him. An according to

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<v Speaker 1>biograph for Claire Harmon, author of Myself and the Other Fellow,

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<v Speaker 1>duality and the idea of the double self turn up

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<v Speaker 1>again and again in Robert Louis Stevenson's work. Well, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>I'm over interpreting here, and this could be just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a mundane parallel, but I mean I see stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like that even in Treasury, and you know, his Space

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<v Speaker 1>Adventure where long John Silver is at the same time

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<v Speaker 1>a a patient and sort of good father figure and

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<v Speaker 1>also an evil pirate. Yeah. Yeah, this is the the

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<v Speaker 1>argument here is, Yeah, that this is the type of

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<v Speaker 1>duality that that he was obsessed with and and so

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<v Speaker 1>much of it, so many of his works, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>essentially had a fever induced psychedelic experience and then this

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<v Speaker 1>lining up with various elements of his of his life.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that is the meat he chewed upon. But

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<v Speaker 1>of course, this popular understanding of the left right division.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that that like the side ruled by passion

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<v Speaker 1>and the right brain and the side ruled by logic

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<v Speaker 1>and reason and the left brain. That's not exactly right, right.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, as we'll explore, doctors actually looked to patients

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<v Speaker 1>with missing brain hemispheres or separated hemispheres and is appealing

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<v Speaker 1>as this notion, maybe it didn't really hold up. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they were all still logical and creative beings. You didn't

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<v Speaker 1>just end up with us, you know, as a Spock

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever the opposite of Spock would be in the

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<v Speaker 1>Star Trek universe. To be clear, though, Yeah, the brain

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<v Speaker 1>is divided into two hemispheres in internal regions like the striatum,

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<v Speaker 1>the hypothalamus, the thalamus, and the brain stem. They're also

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<v Speaker 1>organized with left and right sides as well, despite appearing

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<v Speaker 1>to be continuous when you when you sort of look

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<v Speaker 1>at illustrations of them. Yeah, and for the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, in fact, this is gonna be the first

0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:19.880
<v Speaker 1>of two episodes we're going to be looking at ways

0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.880
<v Speaker 1>that despite this, uh, this like emotional versus logical split

0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.640
<v Speaker 1>being wrong, there are very interesting ways that the brain

0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 1>hemispheres are different and do different things. In fact, well,

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>we can start with the mundane ones I guess, right,

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:38.080
<v Speaker 1>like mundane motor control differences. Exactly. We can look to

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.120
<v Speaker 1>the two two arms and legs. For instance, the right

0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.880
<v Speaker 1>hemisphere of the brain controls the left arm and leg,

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 1>the left hemisphere controls the right arm and leg. Now

0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.439
<v Speaker 1>I have read that in a way like both hemispheres

0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.480
<v Speaker 1>can in some way to some degree control both arms.

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 1>But that when it gets done to like fine motor

0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.040
<v Speaker 1>control of like controlling the actions of the hand and

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.080
<v Speaker 1>especially that's where he gets really lateralized and like it's

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 1>really going to be your right brain that's controlling what

0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 1>your left hand does with its fingers. Now, a more

0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.839
<v Speaker 1>complex example is, but one it's extremely important is each

0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.600
<v Speaker 1>eye has a left and right visual field, with the

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.320
<v Speaker 1>left visual field sent to the right hemisphere and the

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>right field sent to the left hemisphere. Now this can

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 1>also be misunderstood because I've seen it represented in the

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.520
<v Speaker 1>press in places that where like the left eye goes

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 1>to the right hemisphere and the right eye goes to

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.320
<v Speaker 1>the left hemisphere. And that's not quite right either, because

0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.839
<v Speaker 1>both hemispheres can get some information from both eyes. But

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.959
<v Speaker 1>it has to do with the side of the visual

0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.160
<v Speaker 1>field that you're talking about. So like stuff that you

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.839
<v Speaker 1>perceive over to the left part of what you're looking

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 1>at that goes to the right hemisphere, and stuff you

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.160
<v Speaker 1>perceive over in the right area of what you're looking

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 1>at to the right of your center of vision that

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.480
<v Speaker 1>goes to the left hemisphere. And then our visual experience

0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.840
<v Speaker 1>of reality it comes together from these two feeds. Movement

0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and vision depend then on this uni hemispheric relationship. Now,

0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>why do our brains work this way? Yeah? Why the crossover?

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Why don't we just go straight up parallel? It's one

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 1>of those things about the human vice seems needlessly complicated, right, um,

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.400
<v Speaker 1>And the thing is we're not entirely sure. One theory

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 1>that has been discussed is that animals developed more as

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 1>as animals developed more advanced nervous systems, there was an

0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 1>advantage in escaping to the right if something came at

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 1>you from the left. So these are examples where we

0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.040
<v Speaker 1>can actually look to specific hemispheres and say here, here,

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.400
<v Speaker 1>here's where they are most active. But we can't easily

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 1>extend this idea to other aspects of cognition, and certainly

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 1>not to the overall human experience or things like pure

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 1>logical thinking or creativity. No, not that, But there are

0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.880
<v Speaker 1>some cognitive functions that do appear to be pretty strongly

0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 1>lateralized in one way or another, And one of them,

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 1>obviously is language. We mentioned this, Yeah, that's localized to

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>the left, especially complex language and the power of speech.

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 1>There's some research indicating that like the right brain might

0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 1>be able to have a sort of simple lexicon or

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 1>understand very simple bits of language, but if you want

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.720
<v Speaker 1>to generate a sentence like speak one out loud, or

0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.720
<v Speaker 1>understand complex instructions in language, this is usually going to

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.600
<v Speaker 1>be dominated by processes in the left hemisphere. Oh and

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 1>we should also say that everything we say about hemispheres

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 1>in this episode is going to be for most cases.

0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.680
<v Speaker 1>There there cases where this is reversed, where people have

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.720
<v Speaker 1>like the switching of which hemisphere is dominant, but we're

0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.600
<v Speaker 1>talking about the majority of cases here right now. Meanwhile, attention,

0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.720
<v Speaker 1>we see that more localized to the right hemisphere. Yeah,

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 1>and this would be especially things like visual and spatial reasoning,

0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Like the right hemisphere is going to be very important

0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 1>if you need to imagine a map in order to

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>give directions. So, brain activity unbalancing, where one one side

0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.080
<v Speaker 1>is more active in a given task than another. This

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>this occurs based on which system is being employed in

0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.000
<v Speaker 1>a given task, rather than anything about an individual or

0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 1>their background. Of This is all, of course, assuming a

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:14.360
<v Speaker 1>healthy brain. Obviously, if one side of your brain is missing,

0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 1>there's going to be more activity beside it's there. Now,

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 1>no evidence suggests that individual individuals have truly dominant sides

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>of the brain when it comes to their you know,

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.360
<v Speaker 1>their personality makeup right, you're not like creative right brained

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>or logical left brain right and likewise that the logic

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 1>and creativity split idea. Uh, you know again, you'll have

0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.000
<v Speaker 1>individuals that are certainly more logical, perhaps or more creative.

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>But as as neuroscientist Elizabeth Waters has pointed out among

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 1>many others, logic and creativity are not these two distinct notions,

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're deeply interlinks, Like being good at logic

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 1>is in many cases being a certain type of creative. Yeah.

0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what you might dismiss is just a really

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.400
<v Speaker 1>logical exercise, like safe solving a complex math problem that

0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 1>may well require that will require some creative thinking. Likewise,

0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.960
<v Speaker 1>a creative endeavor like say, writing a poem, finishing a novel,

0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 1>coming up with a cool joke, whatever, you know, those

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.720
<v Speaker 1>are gonna gonna be activities that also involve logic. In fact,

0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 1>some of what we're going to discuss in this pair

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.359
<v Speaker 1>of episodes in in the neuroscience research turns this whole

0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 1>thing on its head in a way, because the left

0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 1>part of the brain that's more dominant in exercises involving

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 1>speech and language often tends to be the more creative

0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>one in explaining behaviors. Right it's the one that tends

0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 1>to interpret and come up with explanations for things as

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.760
<v Speaker 1>will as we'll talk about later on, which is a

0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.639
<v Speaker 1>creative exercise. Whereas the right brain tends to more often

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 1>be the part of the brain that records experiences accurately

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:54.640
<v Speaker 1>without creating explanations for them exactly. And but but certainly,

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.160
<v Speaker 1>if I'm gonna you know, drive home anything, we want

0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.399
<v Speaker 1>to point out that that the creativity law, anything that

0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.919
<v Speaker 1>employs these these two loose idea, you know, buckets of

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 1>of of of cognition. You know, these are going to

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.359
<v Speaker 1>be products of whole brain cognition. Like our our the

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.600
<v Speaker 1>brain is all these areas of the brain are working together,

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.040
<v Speaker 1>uh to create this effect. Now, ultimately in this episode,

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.359
<v Speaker 1>we're going to be asking what happens when you cut

0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.119
<v Speaker 1>those two hemispheres of the brain apart. Yes, but I

0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:30.800
<v Speaker 1>guess we'll have to get to that after a break.

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.960
<v Speaker 1>All Right, we're back now. Before we get to the

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.600
<v Speaker 1>idea of severing the brain hemispheres, we should probably talk

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.920
<v Speaker 1>about a little more about Broca and Vernica. Yeah, these

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.240
<v Speaker 1>are just two really key individuals to this whole discussion

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 1>and even just the idea of understanding the human brain.

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Um So Paul Broca will start with him again eighteen

0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.760
<v Speaker 1>eighty He was a French surgeon, neurologist and anthropologists and

0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 1>he is also for anyone who hasn't read the book

0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 1>but has seen the title. He is the namesake for

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Karl Sagan's book Broke His Brain. Sagan describes at one

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.880
<v Speaker 1>point point holding a jar containing the noted scientist's brain. Wait,

0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.000
<v Speaker 1>like imagining doing this literally doing literally doing it? Okay,

0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 1>holding holding the jar that contains his brain and thinking

0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.399
<v Speaker 1>about like what you know, talking he talks a bit

0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 1>about Broca and and and you know, his his work,

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 1>his personality, but also just sort of meditates on what

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 1>you're doing when you when you hold this brain in

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.880
<v Speaker 1>your hands. I want to imagine that, having not read

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 1>this book, it is in fact just like a caper

0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.400
<v Speaker 1>story with Broker's brain as the MacGuffin and it gets

0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>traded around and their car chases. Sagan is trying to

0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.120
<v Speaker 1>get it back from the KGB spies. Uh no, not quite,

0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.400
<v Speaker 1>but Dante Skull shows up as well. O nice So

0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 1>brokea though he made important contributions to our understanding of cancer,

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:55.200
<v Speaker 1>the treatment of aneurysms and aphasia and his Sagan pointed out,

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.639
<v Speaker 1>Broca was also quite concerned with the medical care of

0:19:57.680 --> 0:19:59.639
<v Speaker 1>the poor. He was you know, he was he was

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.760
<v Speaker 1>a free thinker. He was a strong Darwin supporter, and

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>above just about everything, he was the founder of modern

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 1>brain surgery, and Broco was influential in identifying regions of

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.520
<v Speaker 1>the brain as being especially responsible for certain cognitive functions. Right. Yeah,

0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:18.600
<v Speaker 1>he investigated the rheinan cephalon the smell brain. But his

0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.240
<v Speaker 1>name actually goes to a small region in the left

0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.199
<v Speaker 1>frontal lobe of the cerebral cortex what we call Broca's area. Uh.

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:31.200
<v Speaker 1>This is left hemisphere, third frontal convolution. To be specific,

0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.240
<v Speaker 1>this is the area where articulate speech is largely localized

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 1>and controlled. And his Segan pointed out, given the importance

0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.199
<v Speaker 1>of language and articulate speech and human evolution, this portion

0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>of the human brain may be considered, in Sagan's words,

0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 1>the seat of our humanity and some respects. And it's

0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 1>also something anatomists have looked for in the remains of

0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 1>our hominid ancestors, such as Homo habilish. Columbia University anthropologist

0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Ralph Holloway Sagan sided Uh's you know, studied and claimed

0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.639
<v Speaker 1>to have found evidence for its development of a Broca's

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 1>area some two million years ago, and this would have

0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.840
<v Speaker 1>been around the time early tool use was beginning uh.

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.879
<v Speaker 1>Also South African palaeo anthropologist Philip Tobias also made this claim,

0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.199
<v Speaker 1>though according to Susanne Kemer, Associate professor of Linguistics at

0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Rice University, quote, these claims have been controversial. Many see

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.680
<v Speaker 1>no regular impressions that could be ascribed to brain structure here,

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.200
<v Speaker 1>and I can imagine it's probably difficult to just look

0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.639
<v Speaker 1>at skulls and figure out what brain regions were evolved when, right,

0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:39.160
<v Speaker 1>but broke as a discovery here broke a's namesake here

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.480
<v Speaker 1>is the first of many discoveries that illuminated hemispheric separation

0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.400
<v Speaker 1>of function in the brain. And you know, and really

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.000
<v Speaker 1>driving home the idea of that specific brain functions might

0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.360
<v Speaker 1>be isolated to specific parts of the brain. Yeah, if

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.240
<v Speaker 1>there's a certain part in the left hemisphere that seems

0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.880
<v Speaker 1>especially important for language, what else could be lateralized? Right

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.640
<v Speaker 1>now is to throw in the Nowadays, you hear more

0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:06.920
<v Speaker 1>talk of networks as opposed to regions. You know, again

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 1>getting into this idea that that that that we're looking

0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 1>at at a network of of of different systems and

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 1>not individual areas that are just doing all the heavy lifting.

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Your brain is less like a computer. Maybe in more

0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.840
<v Speaker 1>like the Internet, right, but a conscious Internet. That's scary.

0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Uh so horror movie pitch the conscious Internet. Uh yeah,

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:32.320
<v Speaker 1>and then it takes physical form via three D printers. Right,

0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>But let's also talk about about the German Carl Vernica

0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:41.800
<v Speaker 1>okay live eight five a German? Yeah, Well, thus the

0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Vernica uh he was. He has another area of the

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.760
<v Speaker 1>brain's name for him, the Vernica area, and he first

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 1>described this area in eighteen seventy four, and it's found

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.960
<v Speaker 1>in the posterior third of the upper temporal convolution of

0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.359
<v Speaker 1>the left hemisphere of the brain. It's close to the

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.159
<v Speaker 1>auditory cortex and seems to play a unique role in

0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 1>the comprehension of sound and language reception and comprehension. So

0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.959
<v Speaker 1>the stage is set to discuss the lateralization of certain

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:11.800
<v Speaker 1>brain functions. But we mentioned earlier that this episode was

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:14.399
<v Speaker 1>really gonna end up focusing on cutting brains in half.

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:16.520
<v Speaker 1>And I know you're out there saying, when are you

0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 1>going to cut the brain in half? Robert, I think

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.680
<v Speaker 1>it's time. We've got to make the incision, that's right,

0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 1>And what better time to just slice the human brain

0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:27.359
<v Speaker 1>in half than the nineteen sixties and seventies it's really

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:29.959
<v Speaker 1>really perfect. I mean, you could really almost it's tempting

0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:33.159
<v Speaker 1>to just want to think like a left brain, right brain,

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:36.480
<v Speaker 1>old fashioned idea and have like the nineteen sixties hemisphere,

0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen seventies hemisphere. Right, there's just something something

0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:43.639
<v Speaker 1>perfect about the post revolutionary hemisphere. Uh no, no, So

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.680
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna be talking about the research of neuroscientists named

0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Roger Sperry and Michael Gazzaniga, and so actually the brain

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.840
<v Speaker 1>cutting started in the nineteen forties, but it was in

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen sixties that the research on people with severed

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 1>hemispheres really got going, that's right. And they they discovered

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:04.080
<v Speaker 1>something that's that was seemingly amazing that if you split

0:24:04.119 --> 0:24:07.720
<v Speaker 1>the brain, you you essentially split the person as well

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.720
<v Speaker 1>in a certain sense and not in another sense. And

0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:12.560
<v Speaker 1>well we'll have to define that as we go on.

0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:14.720
<v Speaker 1>But but but just think about it for a second.

0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Just the the the promise that the you know, the

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 1>tease of this idea that there would be one person

0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.720
<v Speaker 1>per hemisphere of the brain, this division of the self.

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Getting back to this idea in a certain sense of

0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:31.359
<v Speaker 1>myself and the other guy, right, yeah, oh, that's right. Uh,

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the Robert Louis Stevenson and h and this was work

0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:38.320
<v Speaker 1>they would have eventually earned Sperry the Nobel Prize in

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Medicine in now. During this this these decades of research,

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 1>Sperry performed experiments on cats, monkeys, and humans and focus

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot of attention on the neuron packed corpus colossum

0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:53.720
<v Speaker 1>that bridges the hemispheres. This is often described as sort

0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 1>of like a broadband Internet cable, like an Internet backbone,

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:01.240
<v Speaker 1>fiber optic or something that connects the two hemispheres together

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.600
<v Speaker 1>and enables most of the exchange of information between them.

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Right now, with non human animals, he surgically split the brains,

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:11.920
<v Speaker 1>producing what he called a split brain, in which each

0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:15.359
<v Speaker 1>side seemed to function independently of the other. And he

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 1>also found that an animal with a split brain could

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.400
<v Speaker 1>memorize double the information. Oh I didn't read that. Yeah,

0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 1>that was a tidbit I ran across creepy now obviously

0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 1>him not being a mad scientist villain in like a

0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:30.879
<v Speaker 1>serial in a comic book or something. He didn't split

0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 1>human brains just for experiment, that's right. Fortunately for him,

0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:37.560
<v Speaker 1>there were already humans walking around with split brains because

0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:40.359
<v Speaker 1>they had had because there were patients who had their

0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:45.440
<v Speaker 1>corpus colossum separated uh severed as a treatment for epilepsy,

0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:47.280
<v Speaker 1>and so he was able to get a number of

0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:50.360
<v Speaker 1>these individuals to volunteer for his experiments. Yes, so this

0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 1>procedure was not done for experiments, obviously, it was done

0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:58.120
<v Speaker 1>as a medical treatment, and it's known as a corpus callosodomy,

0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and so the theory behind it is that an epileptic

0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 1>seizure is sort of like a storm of activity in

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the brain with too many neurons firing and triggering chaotic

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:11.440
<v Speaker 1>activity all throughout both hemispheres. And the idea was if

0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 1>you cut the corpus colosum, if you sever that broadband

0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:18.520
<v Speaker 1>internet connection between the two hemispheres of the brain, you

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 1>limit the ability of one of these seizures to spread

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:23.919
<v Speaker 1>from one hemisphere of the brain to the other. And

0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:27.040
<v Speaker 1>in many cases where severe epilepsy could not be treated

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:30.280
<v Speaker 1>by any other means, the surgery actually was considered effective,

0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:33.760
<v Speaker 1>I think, especially later versions of the surgery, less so

0:26:33.800 --> 0:26:35.600
<v Speaker 1>in the forties, more so I think in like the

0:26:35.640 --> 0:26:40.040
<v Speaker 1>sixties on. But this surgery generally isn't used today because

0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:43.679
<v Speaker 1>we have on on the whole safer, better, less radical

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:46.960
<v Speaker 1>treatments for epilepsy. Now they're they're drugs that are pretty effective,

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:50.640
<v Speaker 1>and there are less radical surgeries you can do. And

0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:53.879
<v Speaker 1>it's not known exactly how many patients ever received a

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:58.120
<v Speaker 1>corpus colisotomy and history I've seen estimates including somewhere between

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>fifty and a hundred total patient. I read Michael Gazaniga

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:04.840
<v Speaker 1>estimated that there were over a hundred patients who had

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:08.640
<v Speaker 1>received one. Now, obviously not all of these patients volunteered

0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 1>for split brain neurology research, but some did. And one

0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 1>of the really interesting things to point out is that

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:17.800
<v Speaker 1>we'll have to keep coming back to this is that

0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:21.840
<v Speaker 1>despite the radical nature of this surgical intervention, cutting the

0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:25.840
<v Speaker 1>two hemispheres apart and basically preventing them from communicating with

0:27:25.880 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 1>one another, most patients reported that their lives were generally

0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:33.919
<v Speaker 1>normal after the surgeries. Their families did not usually report

0:27:33.960 --> 0:27:38.239
<v Speaker 1>any major changes in behavior, personality, or cognitive ability. Uh.

0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Michael Gazaniga says that generally, quote, you wouldn't know it

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.400
<v Speaker 1>if you were talking to such a patient. Yeah, I've

0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:47.720
<v Speaker 1>read that the really the only notable results of this

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:51.400
<v Speaker 1>outside of you know, perhaps some experimental stuff that's gonna

0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:53.880
<v Speaker 1>come up, was that they didn't have the seizures anymore. Yeah,

0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 1>like that. That was the goal, and that was the

0:27:56.520 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 1>the the primary experiential difference. By and large, people underwent

0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.760
<v Speaker 1>this procedure. It cut the two halves of their brain apart,

0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.120
<v Speaker 1>and they seemed mostly unchanged. Now. On the other hand,

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:12.439
<v Speaker 1>I have read some anecdotes about changes certain patients faced,

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:16.960
<v Speaker 1>especially right after the surgery, during like an adaptation period.

0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:20.640
<v Speaker 1>For example, a article in Nature News by David Woolman

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 1>recounts the experiences of a patient named Vicky, who received

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.719
<v Speaker 1>a calisotomy in nineteen seventy nine to treat terrible caesar

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 1>she was having. There's a story that her seizures were

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:31.919
<v Speaker 1>so bad that one time she like fell on a

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.640
<v Speaker 1>stove and burned her back while she was having one.

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Um And so she says that for the first few

0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:41.000
<v Speaker 1>months after her surgery, she would stand in the grocery

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.200
<v Speaker 1>store trying to pick items off of the shelf, but

0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:49.080
<v Speaker 1>having severe difficulty just picking up items. She says, quote,

0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I'd reach with my right right hand for the thing

0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 1>I wanted, but the left would come in and they'd

0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:58.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of fight almost like repelling magnets. Uh. And she

0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.320
<v Speaker 1>would apparently have similar troubles when trying to get dressed

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:04.880
<v Speaker 1>in the morning. Woolman writes, quote, Vicky couldn't reconcile what

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:07.960
<v Speaker 1>she wanted to put on with what her hands were doing.

0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes she ended up wearing three outfits at once. And

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 1>then Vicky says, quote, I'd have to dump all the

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:17.000
<v Speaker 1>clothes on the bed to catch my breath and start again.

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 1>And I've read other accounts along these lines that a

0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:22.800
<v Speaker 1>few split brain patients described things like that this was

0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:25.840
<v Speaker 1>one image one hand buttoning up a shirt and the

0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 1>other hand following immediately behind it and unbutton ing all

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:33.320
<v Speaker 1>the buttons. But these kinds of these type of descriptions

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:37.520
<v Speaker 1>are apparently not typical. Most reports indicate that people's behavior,

0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:41.760
<v Speaker 1>cognitive ability, personality, all that is mostly unchanged. And even

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.280
<v Speaker 1>in Vicky's case, after about a year, she was mostly

0:29:44.280 --> 0:29:47.280
<v Speaker 1>back to normal in terms of everyday activities. She says,

0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.400
<v Speaker 1>she could, you know, slice vegetables, to cook and and

0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:53.560
<v Speaker 1>operate machines and all that. And this is in line

0:29:53.600 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 1>with other reports. Amazingly, you can completely sever the connection

0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:00.280
<v Speaker 1>between the two hemispheres of the brain and most of

0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 1>the people you do this to function normally in day

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:06.080
<v Speaker 1>to day life afterwards, before we even get to the

0:30:06.080 --> 0:30:10.160
<v Speaker 1>other strange stuff we're talking about that in itself seems crazy. Yeah,

0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:14.120
<v Speaker 1>I am just always amazed when you when you hear

0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:16.000
<v Speaker 1>about the things that can be done to the brain

0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.800
<v Speaker 1>and the ways that the brain can can can bounce

0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:23.880
<v Speaker 1>back and and behave just relatively normally or just or

0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 1>seemingly completely normally. Even in the face of catastrophic injuries.

0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:30.719
<v Speaker 1>The brain can often find a way. The mind, uh

0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>finds a way. But of course, despite these reports that

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:37.320
<v Speaker 1>people are generally unchanged, what we're about to talk about

0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>is that if you and what Sparry and Kazaniga discovered

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.760
<v Speaker 1>is if you apply some special conditions in the lab,

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:46.680
<v Speaker 1>you can see some really strange and thrilling things at

0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 1>work in the split brain patients. Yeah, the crux of

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.920
<v Speaker 1>this comes down to the very visual processing we discussed earlier.

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Left visual field, right side of the brain, right visual field,

0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 1>left side of the brain. So in a split brain,

0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the left side of the brain can't see the left

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:05.400
<v Speaker 1>field of vision and the right side of the brain

0:31:05.440 --> 0:31:08.600
<v Speaker 1>can't see the right visual field, or generally can't generally yeah,

0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:11.080
<v Speaker 1>generally speaking, and we'll we'll get into the meat of

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 1>this in a minute. But but it's going to lead

0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:16.320
<v Speaker 1>to split brain cats with eye patches and split brain

0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:19.880
<v Speaker 1>monkeys with memorization, because, as we mentioned again, he did

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>conduct animal experiments to see how this uh to to

0:31:24.200 --> 0:31:27.120
<v Speaker 1>to reveal what was going on, and the animal experiments

0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:30.880
<v Speaker 1>were very they produced very strange and fascinating results. But

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 1>you always wonder, well, okay, you know, animal brains are

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>just different than human brains, so so what happens with

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:38.680
<v Speaker 1>the actual human So I was reading an account of

0:31:38.720 --> 0:31:42.280
<v Speaker 1>their very first patients, very in Gazaniga's very first split

0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:45.640
<v Speaker 1>brain patient, uh in that that David Wollman article, and

0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it was a man known as w J. A lot

0:31:47.920 --> 0:31:50.160
<v Speaker 1>of times these patients are known just by a first

0:31:50.240 --> 0:31:53.560
<v Speaker 1>name or by initials, you know, to protect their their identity.

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 1>And apparently w J. Had served as a paratrooper in

0:31:57.400 --> 0:32:00.200
<v Speaker 1>World War two and he suffered a head engine read

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:02.840
<v Speaker 1>during the fighting, a Nazi had smashed him in the

0:32:02.840 --> 0:32:06.600
<v Speaker 1>head with the rifle butt, and afterwards he experienced severe

0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.360
<v Speaker 1>seizures and was treated with the callistotomy. And so in

0:32:10.480 --> 0:32:14.960
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty two after the surgery, Becazanega ran visual field

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:18.880
<v Speaker 1>experiments with w J. And what he found was amazing.

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 1>So the standard set up of one of these experiments

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 1>is that you have the patient focus on a dot

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 1>in the middle of a screen and then you flash

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.840
<v Speaker 1>a visual stimulus in the peripheral visual field on one

0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:33.920
<v Speaker 1>side or the other. And the scientists knew from previous

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:36.880
<v Speaker 1>research that this would mean stimuli shown to the left

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:39.640
<v Speaker 1>visual field, as we've been saying, would usually be perceived

0:32:39.680 --> 0:32:42.400
<v Speaker 1>only by the right hemisphere, and stuff shown in the

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:45.560
<v Speaker 1>right visual field would be perceived only by the left hemisphere.

0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:49.320
<v Speaker 1>But now that the hemispheres can't talk to each other anymore,

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 1>what happens? So w J was shown images in his

0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.640
<v Speaker 1>left or right visual fields and then asked to press

0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.320
<v Speaker 1>a button and then asked to say what he saw.

0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:02.600
<v Speaker 1>And when an image was shown to his left hemisphere,

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 1>the part we know is primarily responsible for language, he

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:07.040
<v Speaker 1>had no problems at all. Right, you show the left

0:33:07.080 --> 0:33:09.720
<v Speaker 1>brain whatever you want, a cat or you know, show

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.880
<v Speaker 1>him RoboCop, and then they'll press the button to indicate

0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 1>they saw something, and he'll say, I saw robo cop.

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:18.560
<v Speaker 1>But when they showed an image to w j's right hemisphere.

0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 1>What he said was that he saw nothing, but strangely enough,

0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:25.880
<v Speaker 1>his left hand, which remember, of course, the left hand

0:33:25.960 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 1>is connected to the right hemisphere. His left hand pressed

0:33:29.800 --> 0:33:33.200
<v Speaker 1>the button when he saw the image, even though the

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:36.320
<v Speaker 1>part of his brain responsible for speech was saying out loud,

0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't see anything. I mean, take take a second

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:41.920
<v Speaker 1>to think about that. Like when I first read that,

0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:46.200
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, okay, oh, and then it hit

0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:48.280
<v Speaker 1>me and I got the chills. I mean, you know,

0:33:48.360 --> 0:33:50.960
<v Speaker 1>the hair stands up on the back of my neck. Literally. Yeah,

0:33:51.000 --> 0:33:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Because what we're we're imagining here is we we read

0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:56.480
<v Speaker 1>this and discussed it is. It's not a complete sle

0:33:57.080 --> 0:34:01.360
<v Speaker 1>like separation of self, but it's like a temporary, very duality,

0:34:01.400 --> 0:34:05.479
<v Speaker 1>like a flash of duality, where in the very place

0:34:05.480 --> 0:34:09.560
<v Speaker 1>where we we want and expect to find some sort

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:13.240
<v Speaker 1>of continuity of self, well, it's yeah, it's like peeking

0:34:13.320 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 1>in and seeing a quick glimpse of a reality that

0:34:17.520 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 1>may be far more true and accurate a description of

0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.400
<v Speaker 1>how the brain is than we would like to admit,

0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:26.319
<v Speaker 1>or that normally seems true to us. Because again, we

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.719
<v Speaker 1>always feel unified and the split brain patients feel unified

0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 1>will revisit this a little more, but they don't report

0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:35.560
<v Speaker 1>feeling like two different people. They just feel normal. This

0:34:35.640 --> 0:34:38.399
<v Speaker 1>is just how I am. And yet from an objective

0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:41.080
<v Speaker 1>outsider's point of view, it's almost as if you've got

0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:44.360
<v Speaker 1>two different people taking the test at the same time.

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 1>One is registering I see something with a hand and

0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:50.799
<v Speaker 1>the other is saying he doesn't see anything. And yet

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:54.280
<v Speaker 1>it only seems this way under certain conditions, and only

0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:56.440
<v Speaker 1>from the outside. Now, if you want to see an

0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:58.200
<v Speaker 1>example of this, you can actually see one of these

0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:01.560
<v Speaker 1>experiments demonstrated on film. And there's like a short documentary

0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:04.400
<v Speaker 1>segment feature that I think he's up on YouTube. Still

0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 1>there's a patient name to Joe who is working with

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:10.839
<v Speaker 1>Kazanega and this looks like it's the nineties or so,

0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 1>and uh, it demonstrates a typical experiment. So you show

0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:18.480
<v Speaker 1>either words or pictures to the left brain only, and

0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:20.919
<v Speaker 1>Joe can name them out loud just fine. So he

0:35:21.080 --> 0:35:23.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, you show him the word car or a

0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:25.560
<v Speaker 1>picture of a car. He says car. Show him the

0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:28.600
<v Speaker 1>word grapes or picture of grapes. He says grapes. Everything

0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:30.920
<v Speaker 1>seems normal because it's all going to the left hemisphere,

0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:33.800
<v Speaker 1>and that's the hemisphere that talks. You show a word

0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:36.760
<v Speaker 1>to the right brain, only in this case, the word

0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:40.400
<v Speaker 1>pan flashes on the far left side of the screen,

0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:44.560
<v Speaker 1>and suddenly Joe is stumped. Uh just based on my read,

0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it looks to me like he seems to be aware

0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:51.399
<v Speaker 1>that he saw something, Like there's a kind of recognition

0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 1>that it looks to me at least like he is

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:57.520
<v Speaker 1>aware something appeared but can't say what it is. And

0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:59.719
<v Speaker 1>with a little shrug and a shaking of his head,

0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:03.600
<v Speaker 1>he says, I didn't see it. But then Gazzaniga has

0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:06.959
<v Speaker 1>him close his eyes and draw with his left hand,

0:36:07.080 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 1>which is controlled mostly by the right hemisphere, and his

0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:15.759
<v Speaker 1>left hand draws a pan. Again legitimate chills, And of course,

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:17.640
<v Speaker 1>after he draws it and looks at it with both eyes,

0:36:17.680 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 1>he can say, yeah, I saw a pan, But the

0:36:19.560 --> 0:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>part of his brain that talks didn't seem to know

0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 1>he'd seen a pan until after his left hand drew it.

0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:29.120
<v Speaker 1>Another type of experiment they carried out. You take a

0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 1>split brain patient and simultaneously show two different pictures on

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.160
<v Speaker 1>the two to the two different hemispheres. You show a

0:36:36.200 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 1>hammer to the left hemisphere and you show a saw

0:36:39.760 --> 0:36:42.440
<v Speaker 1>to the right hemisphere and you ask what did you see.

0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:45.240
<v Speaker 1>Of course, the speaking part of the brain says hammer.

0:36:45.280 --> 0:36:47.759
<v Speaker 1>The person says I saw a hammer. But then when

0:36:47.840 --> 0:36:51.000
<v Speaker 1>asked to draw with the left hand, the patient draws

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 1>a saw and you ask them why did you do that,

0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:56.399
<v Speaker 1>and the patient in this one case, the case of Joe,

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:59.200
<v Speaker 1>says I don't know. Now. In other cases like this

0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:02.040
<v Speaker 1>version of this test, sometimes the speaking part of the

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:04.879
<v Speaker 1>brain will not just say I don't know, but will

0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:09.000
<v Speaker 1>actually seem to make up stories about why their brain

0:37:09.239 --> 0:37:12.640
<v Speaker 1>produced a certain output that the left part of the brain,

0:37:12.680 --> 0:37:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the speaking part, doesn't seem to understand, and they'll just

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:19.520
<v Speaker 1>confabulate an explanation. Well, you know, they might say, well,

0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:22.719
<v Speaker 1>because you know, I I was thinking about this other thing,

0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:25.359
<v Speaker 1>or because you said this thing earlier, or something, well

0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:29.239
<v Speaker 1>that makes sense. I mean, it's almost like a supernatural experience, right,

0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:32.560
<v Speaker 1>and uh. And you know, logically you can, you know,

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:34.520
<v Speaker 1>try and find some sort of answer to it. But

0:37:34.600 --> 0:37:36.719
<v Speaker 1>the answer you give, and apparently the I mean, there's

0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:39.600
<v Speaker 1>no indication that these people were just consciously lying about

0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.279
<v Speaker 1>their motivations. The answer you give, and apparently the answer

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:45.560
<v Speaker 1>you seem to believe is not true. It is just

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:48.520
<v Speaker 1>like you. You can come up with explanations for your

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:51.640
<v Speaker 1>own behavior that are completely wrong, and we can show

0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:54.880
<v Speaker 1>why they're wrong, but you are not aware that they're wrong.

0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.839
<v Speaker 1>You can be wrong about your own mind. And even

0:37:58.840 --> 0:38:01.799
<v Speaker 1>without a split brain, of course, humans are are very

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:04.640
<v Speaker 1>capable of of of coming up with false reasons for

0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:07.239
<v Speaker 1>whatever they believe or whatever they did. Oh, absolutely, yeah,

0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:09.400
<v Speaker 1>I think that's entirely correct. And that's sort of what

0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I what I'm thinking we might be able to extrapolate here.

0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:15.000
<v Speaker 1>So one of the most amazing things to me about

0:38:15.040 --> 0:38:17.560
<v Speaker 1>this kind of research is uh is that this can

0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:20.720
<v Speaker 1>happen to the brain. For the most part, nobody seems

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:24.239
<v Speaker 1>to notice. It takes a lab experiment like this to

0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:26.920
<v Speaker 1>draw it out. Like not the people who interact with

0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:30.080
<v Speaker 1>the split brain patient. Remember that family members usually report

0:38:30.120 --> 0:38:34.239
<v Speaker 1>no major changes in personality or cognitive ability. As David

0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Wollman points out in his Nature article, the patients themselves

0:38:37.680 --> 0:38:41.120
<v Speaker 1>say they quote never reported feeling anything less than whole,

0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:44.799
<v Speaker 1>and in the words of Michael Gazzaniga, the severed hemispheres

0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:47.800
<v Speaker 1>do not seem to notice that they have been severed.

0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:51.880
<v Speaker 1>And they don't report missing each other. So this raises

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.040
<v Speaker 1>so many questions. First of all, why are they connected

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:57.400
<v Speaker 1>in the first place If they can be severed like

0:38:57.480 --> 0:39:01.319
<v Speaker 1>this and not seem to notice that, that's an interesting thing, Like,

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:05.319
<v Speaker 1>what's the reason for this this connection? Second, how is

0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:07.440
<v Speaker 1>this possible? Like, how is it possible to cut a

0:39:07.480 --> 0:39:09.760
<v Speaker 1>brain in half and have it not seem to notice

0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:13.360
<v Speaker 1>anything's different and not behave much different? Indeed, I mean,

0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:15.000
<v Speaker 1>even in a light of everything we've talked about, it

0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:18.279
<v Speaker 1>seems it seems kind of impossible. It seems seems like

0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:20.400
<v Speaker 1>it's a like like like it's a magic trick, a

0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:22.920
<v Speaker 1>grotesque magic trick, but a magic trick in the west. Well,

0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:25.799
<v Speaker 1>maybe we should discuss a possible explanation for this after

0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:31.040
<v Speaker 1>a break, thank thank Alright, we're back. Okay, So we're

0:39:31.040 --> 0:39:34.120
<v Speaker 1>asking the question of how is it possible given these

0:39:34.160 --> 0:39:38.000
<v Speaker 1>split brain experiments where uh, you sever the corpus closum,

0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:40.799
<v Speaker 1>the two hemispheres of the brain are separated, and now

0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:44.400
<v Speaker 1>functions that are dominated by one hemisphere of the brain

0:39:44.520 --> 0:39:47.520
<v Speaker 1>or the other can can take place, can go on

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.600
<v Speaker 1>independently without the other part of the brain seeming to

0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:53.480
<v Speaker 1>be aware and This even leads to stuff like the

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:56.759
<v Speaker 1>right brain being aware of a piece of information that

0:39:56.840 --> 0:39:59.880
<v Speaker 1>motivates action. Like say you show the right brain a picture,

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:03.160
<v Speaker 1>the left hand, which is mainly controlled by the right brain,

0:40:03.320 --> 0:40:06.080
<v Speaker 1>can draw a picture of that thing, and the left

0:40:06.120 --> 0:40:08.880
<v Speaker 1>brain doesn't know why it happened, and the person speaking

0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:11.920
<v Speaker 1>gives a maybe a made up explanation of where that

0:40:11.960 --> 0:40:14.440
<v Speaker 1>image came from. How is this kind of thing possible?

0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Gazanica explains it in terms of what he sort of

0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:22.320
<v Speaker 1>calls interpreter theory. The interpreter is the idea of the

0:40:22.760 --> 0:40:26.440
<v Speaker 1>part of your brain. Gazaniga thinks this is localized in

0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:30.760
<v Speaker 1>the left hemisphere that comes up with this contrived explanation

0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 1>for why your your brain did something that it doesn't

0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.640
<v Speaker 1>actually understand. Uh. And we can know in many cases

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:40.080
<v Speaker 1>that this explanation is bunk because we know where the

0:40:40.120 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 1>actual stimulus for the behavior came from. It was shown

0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:45.280
<v Speaker 1>to the other half of the brain that the speaking

0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.759
<v Speaker 1>part of the brain doesn't know about. And so Gazanica's

0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:51.640
<v Speaker 1>idea is that this interpreter function, its main role is

0:40:51.680 --> 0:40:54.560
<v Speaker 1>to create a sense of self, to sort of weave

0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:59.440
<v Speaker 1>an autobiographical narrative about the self that makes sense, even

0:40:59.480 --> 0:41:02.400
<v Speaker 1>if it makes sense in a completely false way, that

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:05.759
<v Speaker 1>does not actually explain the real things that happened in

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:09.040
<v Speaker 1>the real motivations for behavior. It just comes up with

0:41:09.160 --> 0:41:13.360
<v Speaker 1>post talk explanations for behaviors. And you know, this reminds

0:41:13.360 --> 0:41:16.160
<v Speaker 1>me of Um, I'm sure you've read about this before.

0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:19.239
<v Speaker 1>There's a metaphor that's often used. I don't know where

0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:20.960
<v Speaker 1>it comes from in the first place, but sometimes the

0:41:21.000 --> 0:41:24.920
<v Speaker 1>psychologist Jonathan Height invokes it of the elephant and the rider,

0:41:26.000 --> 0:41:28.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, to explain the conscious and unconscious brain. So

0:41:28.680 --> 0:41:31.120
<v Speaker 1>in the case of the unconscious versus the conscious brain,

0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:33.960
<v Speaker 1>the conscious mind is a person is like a person

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 1>riding on top of an elephant, and the elephant is

0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 1>the unconscious mind. And the writer thinks they are driving,

0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:44.919
<v Speaker 1>steering the elephant around, but actually the elephant goes where

0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:48.120
<v Speaker 1>it wants, and the writer is just writing right there

0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:51.279
<v Speaker 1>along for the ride wherever the elephant goes. Nevertheless, the

0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:53.960
<v Speaker 1>writer will always be able to come up with some

0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:57.279
<v Speaker 1>explanation for why they meant to steer the elephant in

0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:00.080
<v Speaker 1>the direction it went right, Like oh yeah, yeah, I

0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:01.880
<v Speaker 1>actually wanted to go over to that mud hole and

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.719
<v Speaker 1>get showered in mud because because I was hot and

0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:07.240
<v Speaker 1>the mud is cooling me off. Now. But in this scenario,

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the elephant, of course is the one calling the shots,

0:42:09.520 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 1>actually right, I mean, yeah, elephants love mud holes right now.

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Of course, not to be a stickler here to complicate

0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:17.400
<v Speaker 1>the issue, but you could have a mahoot in there.

0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:21.480
<v Speaker 1>I believe the term is is mahoot the individual who

0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:25.080
<v Speaker 1>who will sometimes stand to the side and using a

0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:28.320
<v Speaker 1>stick to touch different parts of the elephant, um naked

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:30.400
<v Speaker 1>go where it needs to go. Oh well, we know

0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.840
<v Speaker 1>quite well that often the unconscious mind of a person

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:38.279
<v Speaker 1>can be controlled by manipulation from the outside without the

0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 1>rider being aware that they're not driving. I mean, think

0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:45.880
<v Speaker 1>about the ways people are are manipulated in their unconscious

0:42:45.960 --> 0:42:50.000
<v Speaker 1>drives and desires by advertising, by media, by drugs, by

0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:53.279
<v Speaker 1>so all of these things are the stick of the mahoot,

0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:57.440
<v Speaker 1>which I'm sure has a particular name that I'm not

0:42:57.480 --> 0:43:00.040
<v Speaker 1>aware of. And then the mahoot is it represents the

0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:06.160
<v Speaker 1>interests of corporations and governments and uh and religious groups, etcetera.

0:43:06.400 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 1>It's driving somebody's unconscious mind around while they think they're

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 1>the driver. I mean, no matter you know, the elephant

0:43:12.560 --> 0:43:14.560
<v Speaker 1>is going to be calling the shots. See whether it's

0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:17.640
<v Speaker 1>being manipulated or it's just following its nature. But either way,

0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.359
<v Speaker 1>the driver is always going to be able to come

0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:21.440
<v Speaker 1>up with the story saying, yeah, this is why we

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:24.960
<v Speaker 1>went over here. I have planned it this way all along.

0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:28.480
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to buy this product. Now, this is a

0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:30.759
<v Speaker 1>kind of different case, But the analogy here is that

0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:34.920
<v Speaker 1>the talking, explaining, interpreting part of the left brain, according

0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:39.759
<v Speaker 1>to Gazaniga's theory, is making up stories about why the

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:44.479
<v Speaker 1>now alien right brain does what it does, which, of course,

0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 1>it still shares a body so it controls some of

0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:49.919
<v Speaker 1>the same limbs and stuff, when the interpreter really has

0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>no idea why the other part of the brain did

0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:54.440
<v Speaker 1>what it did. Now, I think we should probably take

0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:57.920
<v Speaker 1>a minute to emphasize like the drawbacks and limitations of

0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:01.360
<v Speaker 1>split brain research. One of them is that, as riveting

0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 1>as I feel like, this kind of thing is um

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.080
<v Speaker 1>I think, for one thing, due to the necessity of

0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:11.000
<v Speaker 1>the small sample sizes and the unusual history of the

0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.600
<v Speaker 1>patients involved, this is the kind of research that's better

0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:17.960
<v Speaker 1>thought of as a jumping off point to inspire questions

0:44:17.960 --> 0:44:20.960
<v Speaker 1>and hypotheses that you should really try to prove through

0:44:21.000 --> 0:44:24.640
<v Speaker 1>other means if possible. Like a lot of modern neuroscientists

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:27.520
<v Speaker 1>would probably say that you can learn more with more

0:44:27.640 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 1>confidence from brain imaging studies like f m R I

0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:33.600
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, then you can from a very small cohort

0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:37.640
<v Speaker 1>of people with calls. Otomy's right, right, But at the

0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:40.200
<v Speaker 1>same time that that may be true. But I do

0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:43.759
<v Speaker 1>think there's real value in these kind of experiments, specifically

0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:46.880
<v Speaker 1>mainly because you can see it, like you can see

0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:50.880
<v Speaker 1>the human behavior in reality. You can see the implications

0:44:50.920 --> 0:44:55.360
<v Speaker 1>of a strange discovery in neuroscience instantiated in the real world.

0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:58.600
<v Speaker 1>It's one thing to learn through fmr I. That's something

0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:02.840
<v Speaker 1>like different brain reach can function somewhat independently of one another,

0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:06.560
<v Speaker 1>almost as multiple brains within the same head that don't

0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:08.960
<v Speaker 1>understand what the other one is doing. You could probably

0:45:09.000 --> 0:45:12.000
<v Speaker 1>show that in some ways through fm R I, But

0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:15.560
<v Speaker 1>the split brain experiments show you the texture and the

0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:18.560
<v Speaker 1>drama of the experience of a real person dealing with

0:45:18.600 --> 0:45:21.760
<v Speaker 1>these facts about the brain. Other studies could probably find

0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:24.799
<v Speaker 1>ways of indicating this, but but it is I think

0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:28.719
<v Speaker 1>valuable how these experiments showed the experience of it right,

0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:32.360
<v Speaker 1>like you can actually see somebody in real time dealing

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:34.759
<v Speaker 1>with the fact that they don't understand why their left

0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:36.920
<v Speaker 1>hand just did what it did. I was reading a

0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:39.839
<v Speaker 1>little a little bit about this. I ran across uh

0:45:40.280 --> 0:45:44.400
<v Speaker 1>some material written by a cognitive psychologist, Year Pinto, an

0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:47.600
<v Speaker 1>assistant professor at the Psychology department of the University of

0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Amsterdam in the Netherlands. And uh Pinto and their team

0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:56.440
<v Speaker 1>tested to split brain patients in to see if they

0:45:56.440 --> 0:46:00.000
<v Speaker 1>could respond accurately to objects in the left visual field

0:46:00.120 --> 0:46:02.960
<v Speaker 1>perceived by the right brain while also responding verbally or

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:05.440
<v Speaker 1>with the right hand controlled by the left brain. And

0:46:05.640 --> 0:46:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Pinto uh Pinto also wrote about this in a piece

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:13.640
<v Speaker 1>for Ian magazine as well. So Pinto and the and

0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:15.759
<v Speaker 1>and the team found that they could be that the

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:19.320
<v Speaker 1>individual could perceive stimuli and presence in either side of

0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:22.120
<v Speaker 1>the visual field, but that they couldn't compare stimuli across

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.280
<v Speaker 1>the midline of the visual field. When the stimulus appeared

0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:27.960
<v Speaker 1>in the left field, they were better at indicating its

0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:31.400
<v Speaker 1>visual properties attention, and when it appeared in the right

0:46:31.480 --> 0:46:34.200
<v Speaker 1>visual field, they were better at labeling it. So, you know,

0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:38.040
<v Speaker 1>coming back to a language, here's how Pinto summed it

0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:39.719
<v Speaker 1>up in Ian magazine. I just want to read a

0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:42.440
<v Speaker 1>passage from this because I think it it punctuates a

0:46:42.480 --> 0:46:45.279
<v Speaker 1>lot of what we're talking about here. Quote. Based on

0:46:45.320 --> 0:46:47.640
<v Speaker 1>these findings, we have proposed a new model of the

0:46:47.680 --> 0:46:50.319
<v Speaker 1>split brain syndrome. When you split the brain, you still

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:53.279
<v Speaker 1>end up with only one person. However, this person experiences

0:46:53.360 --> 0:46:57.200
<v Speaker 1>two streams of visual information, one for each visual field,

0:46:57.360 --> 0:46:59.760
<v Speaker 1>and that person is unable to integrate the two streams.

0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:02.560
<v Speaker 1>It is as if he watches an out of sync movie,

0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>but not with the audio and video out of sync. Rather,

0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:09.160
<v Speaker 1>the two UNSYNCD streams are both video. And there's more.

0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:13.280
<v Speaker 1>While the previous model provided strong evidence for materialism, split

0:47:13.320 --> 0:47:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the brain, split the person, the current understanding seems to

0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:20.319
<v Speaker 1>only deepen the mystery of consciousness. You split the brain

0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:23.080
<v Speaker 1>into two halves, and yet you still have only one person.

0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:26.839
<v Speaker 1>How does a brain consisting of many modules create just

0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:31.080
<v Speaker 1>one person? And how do split brainers operate as one

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:34.719
<v Speaker 1>when these parts are not even talking to each other. Now,

0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:37.400
<v Speaker 1>this study, I think, does add some interesting nuance to

0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:39.799
<v Speaker 1>what we've been talking about before. One thing, I feel

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:41.799
<v Speaker 1>like I don't maybe I'm just missing something. I feel

0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:45.880
<v Speaker 1>like Pinto is setting up this model as like, uh,

0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:49.839
<v Speaker 1>as like a counterpoint to the idea of of what

0:47:49.960 --> 0:47:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Spery and Gazzaniga discovered. But it seems actually to me

0:47:52.800 --> 0:47:54.839
<v Speaker 1>kind of in line with what they discovered, like the

0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:59.279
<v Speaker 1>idea that that our consciousness is very mysterious. I mean,

0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:02.399
<v Speaker 1>I think Spery Gazaniga would say that despite being able

0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:05.319
<v Speaker 1>to produce these behaviors that look from the outside like

0:48:05.440 --> 0:48:08.759
<v Speaker 1>as if they're from two different people. Uh, the experience

0:48:08.840 --> 0:48:11.640
<v Speaker 1>of the patient, as they've always reported, is that they

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:14.239
<v Speaker 1>feel like a normal, whole person that nothing seems to

0:48:14.280 --> 0:48:18.200
<v Speaker 1>have changed to them, right. I think in both cases though,

0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:20.640
<v Speaker 1>it just you end up in this weird conundrum almost,

0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:25.120
<v Speaker 1>this paradox, this idea that the single person we feel

0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:28.080
<v Speaker 1>that we are is in some ways too And in

0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:32.480
<v Speaker 1>these cases where we see evidence of of seem to

0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.719
<v Speaker 1>see two evidence of what you could you know, call

0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:39.200
<v Speaker 1>two minds within one brain, they're still functioning as one.

0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:42.520
<v Speaker 1>They are still one. And so yeah, the paradox of

0:48:42.880 --> 0:48:45.320
<v Speaker 1>that which is one seems too and that which is

0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:48.120
<v Speaker 1>too seems one or more than two. Yeah, I mean

0:48:48.400 --> 0:48:50.799
<v Speaker 1>that we've got the two hemispheres of the brain but

0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:55.120
<v Speaker 1>remember that the hemispheres are each full of you know, modules,

0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:58.200
<v Speaker 1>and like they're full of millions of neurons and they're

0:48:58.239 --> 0:49:01.080
<v Speaker 1>that are working in different networks and jules to accomplish

0:49:01.120 --> 0:49:03.760
<v Speaker 1>different goals. And so I think one of the lessons

0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:06.800
<v Speaker 1>is that definitely different parts of the brain can behave

0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and generate behaviors independently. And somehow you are here and

0:49:11.920 --> 0:49:15.200
<v Speaker 1>you end up thinking I am a person. There's one

0:49:15.280 --> 0:49:18.840
<v Speaker 1>of me, but there's a lot of different independent stuff

0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:22.560
<v Speaker 1>going on inside whatever makes you. Yeah, I come back

0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.799
<v Speaker 1>to that Hunter S. Thompson Warren Yvon quote, you're a

0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:29.040
<v Speaker 1>whole different person when you're scared. Uh and in because

0:49:29.080 --> 0:49:32.320
<v Speaker 1>in some because in to some extent, as we've discussed,

0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 1>you are a different person. You're at least a different

0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:37.520
<v Speaker 1>version of the person. Uh So, yeah, how many how

0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:39.440
<v Speaker 1>many us are there? Really? Well? I think we can

0:49:39.480 --> 0:49:42.760
<v Speaker 1>explore this more in the second episode, but this really

0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:46.520
<v Speaker 1>should give us some questions to think about, questions about

0:49:47.280 --> 0:49:51.560
<v Speaker 1>whether our idea of a person or a self is

0:49:51.680 --> 0:49:55.840
<v Speaker 1>really an accurate understanding of what brains are like, or

0:49:56.040 --> 0:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>is it just a is it just a convenient illusion?

0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:03.239
<v Speaker 1>And that is some stuff to blow your mind or

0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:06.080
<v Speaker 1>minds if you will. Hey, if you want to check

0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:08.560
<v Speaker 1>out more episodes of the show while you're waiting for

0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:10.920
<v Speaker 1>the next episode to drop, head on over to Stuff

0:50:10.960 --> 0:50:13.120
<v Speaker 1>to Blow your Mind dot com. That's where we'll find

0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:14.880
<v Speaker 1>them all. That's what we'll find links to our various

0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:17.279
<v Speaker 1>social media accounts. Hey, and I want to mention again

0:50:17.360 --> 0:50:21.120
<v Speaker 1>check out Invention at invention pod dot com. That is

0:50:21.120 --> 0:50:22.960
<v Speaker 1>our other show that comes out on Mondays where we

0:50:23.000 --> 0:50:26.680
<v Speaker 1>discuss the crazy inventions and sometimes it seemingly very mundane

0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:29.560
<v Speaker 1>inventions that change the way we live our lives, that

0:50:29.640 --> 0:50:32.080
<v Speaker 1>changed the world. We just recently started a series on

0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:34.560
<v Speaker 1>the Death Ray, which turned out to be far more

0:50:34.600 --> 0:50:37.880
<v Speaker 1>fascinating than we even imagined it would be. So don't

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<v Speaker 1>just check out Invention, subscribe, friends, subscribe, that's right. And Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>That really helps us out. Another way to help us

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<v Speaker 1>been spun off of past episodes. Huge thanks as always

0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to our excellent audio producers Alex Williams and Tory Harrison.

0:51:05.200 --> 0:51:06.880
<v Speaker 1>If you would like to get in touch with us

0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:09.680
<v Speaker 1>directly with feedback on this episode or any other, to

0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.320
<v Speaker 1>suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:15.120
<v Speaker 1>you can email us at blow the Mind at how

0:51:15.160 --> 0:51:27.680
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