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Speaker 1: Questlof Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up?

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Speaker 2: This is Sugar Steve from questloff Supreme. Anybody who knows

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Speaker 2: this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last

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Speaker 2: for hours, so often we split them into two parts.

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Speaker 2: It also gives listeners a suspenseful reason to come back

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Speaker 2: next week or check their podcast feed for more episodes.

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Speaker 2: Back in twenty twenty two, we sat down with La

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Speaker 2: Reid for what became a rare three part interview. The

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Speaker 2: third and final part of La Read's epic QLs interview

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Speaker 2: covers the founding of La Face Records and some rarely

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Speaker 2: discussed history surrounding outcasts and TLC. Please rate, like, and

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Speaker 2: subscribe to this on your podcast feeds, check back for

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Speaker 2: new episodes, and follow our new YouTube page at QLs.

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Speaker 3: At the time in eighty eight eighty nine, I wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have thought, Hey, Atlanta is a great place to build

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Speaker 3: my empire. What did you see in Atlanta that we

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Speaker 3: didn't see? Because at the time, the only artist I

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Speaker 3: knew that lived in Atlanta was People Bryson.

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Speaker 4: And then you changed everything. You changed the whole culture

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Speaker 4: of a city.

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Speaker 3: So why did you choose Atlanta and how did you

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Speaker 3: choose Atlanta?

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Speaker 1: Why and how?

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Speaker 5: It was a combination. It was myself, Babyface and Pebbles.

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Speaker 5: All three of us were in the studio on Kwanga Boulevard,

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Speaker 5: in a studio called Ilumba, and we collectively decided that

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Speaker 5: we wanted to leave. We wanted to move out of

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Speaker 5: LA for various reasons.

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Speaker 1: Okay, why.

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Speaker 4: One was we're concerned.

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Speaker 5: About earthquakes seriously, and that sounds kind of crazy, it's real.

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Speaker 5: We were concerned about cost of living and we had

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Speaker 5: just started to make some money and we wanted to

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Speaker 5: know how to stretch that right. And so the idea was,

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Speaker 5: let's and we just come off tour, like we just

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Speaker 5: finished that last tour and we've been all over the country,

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Speaker 5: and we didn't think La was like the only place

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Speaker 5: on Earth. So we had a conversation about moving. So

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Speaker 5: we put a map on the wall. We had a

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Speaker 5: very serious conversation about.

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Speaker 1: Boo, yeah, that's what to say. You put a map out.

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Speaker 4: Very serious conversation.

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Speaker 5: We put a map on the wall, a map of

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Speaker 5: the United States, and first we looked at everyone's hometown.

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Speaker 4: Where should we go? Should we go to the Bay

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Speaker 4: Area where Pebbles is from she was from Atlanta, She's

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Speaker 4: from the Bay.

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Speaker 5: We were like, nah, wow, the Indianapolis where babyfaces from

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Speaker 5: Cincinnati where I'm from.

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Speaker 4: Nah. Then we were like New York and then Kenny.

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Speaker 5: We thought about our experiences being in New York and writing,

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Speaker 5: and we were like, we don't write that well in

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Speaker 5: New York.

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Speaker 4: Now we got it.

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Speaker 5: Dallas, big homes, big great lifestyle. One of us, and

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Speaker 5: I don't remember who said Atlanta, and all I remember

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Speaker 5: all of us saying yes, because Atlanta. If you're on tour,

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Speaker 5: when you go through Atlanta, it's like the Mecca.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: Everything was like upscale. It was like everything from the

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Speaker 5: pre Olympics. Oh yeah, this is eighty eight eighty eight Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I mean Olympic they didn't have skyscrapers.

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Speaker 3: I mean you guys and Bobby Brown, I'll never understand,

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Speaker 3: Like we all like, why would y'all do that?

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Speaker 5: We picked Atlanta because we knew we could live. Well,

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Speaker 5: I'm being honest, right, we just knew we could live.

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Speaker 5: We went down looked at some houses and the house prices,

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Speaker 5: the real estate prices, like, we were like.

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Speaker 4: We can live, we can live well down here.

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Speaker 5: This place is dope, So we I called Irving Azof

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Speaker 5: who was running MCA at the time, who we thought

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Speaker 5: we were going to make the La Face deal with.

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Speaker 4: And I said, Irving, I have an idea. That what's

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Speaker 4: the idea?

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Speaker 5: I said, how's the South motown up the South the

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Speaker 5: Face Records Atlanta, Georgia, And he said, where do I sign?

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Speaker 5: And that's how it started. And he gave us the

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Speaker 5: seed money to move, booked the planes, booked.

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Speaker 4: The hotels, found us a lawyer, found us a real.

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Speaker 5: Estate agent, and we went down and we literally stayed

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Speaker 5: there until we found homes.

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Speaker 1: And where did Clive Davis come in the picture?

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Speaker 4: Irv Irving's quit working at MCA. Oh, he left the company? Right?

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Speaker 5: So enter Clarence Avon, Yes, godfather, So Clarence Avon who

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Speaker 5: had always been there, right. Clarence says, well, if you're

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Speaker 5: not doing it with Irving, then I'm going to introduce

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Speaker 5: you to Jerry Moss, David Geffen and all of the

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Speaker 5: various players. And we met everybody, and everybody was interested.

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Speaker 5: Moe Austin, I met everybody.

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Speaker 1: How did you get out the contract though you signed

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Speaker 1: on the dotted line.

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Speaker 4: No, no, we didn't sign anything.

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Speaker 5: We just got producer advances because we made all of

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Speaker 5: our hits at MCA, so we had a lot of

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Speaker 5: money in the pipeline. So he just basically gave us

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Speaker 5: the money that we were Oh.

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Speaker 1: You didn't have to recoup it back or repay back or.

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Speaker 5: We never signed one thing. No, wow, No, we didn't

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Speaker 5: sign anything. We just and it was a lot of money,

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Speaker 5: you know, especially at that time, I can imagine, yeah,

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Speaker 5: you know.

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Speaker 4: So Clams introduced us to everybody.

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Speaker 5: And when I was eighteen years old, I read this

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Speaker 5: book by this great record executive, Clive Davis, the Yellow Book,

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Speaker 5: and I don't even know why. I don't even know why,

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Speaker 5: eighteen nineteen years old, why am I reading about a

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Speaker 5: record executive. I didn't even know why. But there was

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Speaker 5: a photo of him sitting at the Beverly Hills Hotel

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Speaker 5: pool slide in the family with sliced stone, and I

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Speaker 5: was like.

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Speaker 4: I want to be that guy right, not sly, I

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Speaker 4: want to be the guy sitting next. This is a lot, right, So.

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Speaker 5: This is my big opportunity to meet the great Clive Davis.

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Speaker 4: And Clarence set it up.

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Speaker 5: We walked into the bungalow at the Beverly Hills Hotel,

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Speaker 5: to meet Clive Davis, and my mind was already made up.

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Speaker 5: I was like, I'm doing this with Clive, but I

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Speaker 5: couldn't say that. I couldn't play, I couldn't show the hand,

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Speaker 5: and I didn't actually know how Face felt about it

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Speaker 5: at the time. You know, a New Face really wanted

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Speaker 5: to work on Whitney, so it just all felt right.

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Speaker 5: We thought we were going to do it with David Geffen,

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Speaker 5: who said yes to our deal, and then he came

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Speaker 5: back and said, actually, no, I don't want to do it.

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Speaker 5: And his reasoning was, I'm not committed to the genre.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't bad at all. It was very honest. He

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Speaker 5: was like, I'm a rock any waste that time. He's like,

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Speaker 5: that's right.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't.

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Speaker 6: That's what I was thinking.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh wow. Now I'm just thinking like, wow,

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Speaker 3: I could have signed to the label. I could have

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Speaker 3: signed a Little Face in nineteen ninety three Wendy Goldstein.

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Speaker 3: It just went to like, now I magine the alternate

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Speaker 3: lifetime where outcast needs help and the roots are the

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Speaker 3: world my god, and the roots are the one that's hot.

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Speaker 4: That's actually really hot, that's home.

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Speaker 7: Man.

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Speaker 1: I have a while.

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Speaker 7: We all have a very specific Outcast question.

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Speaker 8: So I want you to talk about the differences in

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Speaker 8: working with between Dre and Big Boy.

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Speaker 7: I really study. Big Boy is somebody that I really look.

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Speaker 8: At, and I look at a lot of the moves

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Speaker 8: in his career and they seem to be a direct

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Speaker 8: reflection of you know, you know, his relationship with you.

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Speaker 8: So I wanted to know he talks, He's always spoken

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Speaker 8: very highly him and stuff much, you know what I mean? Yeah, So, like,

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Speaker 8: how have you how's that relationship between those two guys

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Speaker 8: over the years, how's that developed?

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Speaker 4: It's always been really good.

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Speaker 5: And the truth is, I think it might have been

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Speaker 5: one of my better relationships because I didn't know their

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Speaker 5: music as well, Like like I couldn't.

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Speaker 4: Tamper, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: Like if usc makes a record, I have a very

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Speaker 5: strong opinion about it, or anybody you know usher makes

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Speaker 5: a record, I have a very strong opinion about it.

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Speaker 5: But with Outcast, there were such originals that if they

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Speaker 5: felt passionately about it, my job was to be a

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Speaker 5: servant leader instead of being instead of meddling.

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Speaker 3: I have a question, Okay, am I the only one

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Speaker 3: that thinks this fonte as much as I love Elevators. Okay,

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Speaker 3: dude in nineteen ninety six, to make your first single

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Speaker 3: a very slow temple song that's like eighty eight bpms,

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Speaker 3: not not conducive to what I believe dance culture was in.

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Speaker 7: But that was in the South Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, that was such a song South.

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Speaker 7: For us, man, that was nah with shit, it wasn't

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Speaker 7: missed for us. We ran the fuck out of Elevators,

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Speaker 7: like immediately.

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Speaker 3: Because when I got that, like by that point, I

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Speaker 3: was like getting serviced by DJs and whatnot. And yes,

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Speaker 3: as a as a as a Northeasterner like I was,

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Speaker 3: I was in the groove of where hip hop was

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Speaker 3: in that period between like ninety two bpms and one

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Speaker 3: hundred bpms, like very fast pitt And when I put

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Speaker 3: Elevators on, I just stared at the record, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: this is so slow and space.

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Speaker 1: And how am I gonna wake make this work in

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Speaker 1: my DJ sets?

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Speaker 3: And yet y'all went with it like there was no

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Speaker 3: fear whatsoever.

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Speaker 5: I actually didn't know one way or another, like to

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Speaker 5: be honest with you, right, Andre and Big Boy Enrico Way,

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Speaker 5: they came to the.

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Speaker 4: Office and they were like, this is it? This is it?

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Speaker 4: This is it? And I knew Andre.

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Speaker 5: What I did know is that that Andre verse was

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Speaker 5: we all knew that. I mean that was like seriously, like, damn,

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Speaker 5: he's good. He's really good. But as a song I

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Speaker 5: probably had the same opinion you did. I was like,

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Speaker 5: this is a little slow. It's not that clear either,

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Speaker 5: you know, like it wasn't it wasn't. It wasn't sparkling.

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Speaker 5: It was dark, right, And so I had the same

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Speaker 5: could But I really believed in I really believed in

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Speaker 5: Rico way like Rico Waite was the leader, and he

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Speaker 5: was he was my ears, my eyes and my ears

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Speaker 5: to everything that we were doing in that world of outcast,

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Speaker 5: the goodie mob and even you know, parental advisory is yes, right,

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Speaker 5: they were in the crew as well. So I just

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Speaker 5: listened to Rico and it worked. And after it worked,

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Speaker 5: my relationship with them was you guys, make your own decisions.

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Speaker 5: If you want my opinion, I'll give you my opinion,

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Speaker 5: but I'm not giving you my opinion unless you ask me.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, is that still your relationship would be? Boy, y'all

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Speaker 8: still to this day do what he says.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So, without Rico's presence on speaker box. How do

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Speaker 3: you trust your instincts? I mean, by this point, they're

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Speaker 3: they're now a marquee act, they're you're a listers and

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Speaker 3: without the muscle of organized noise sort of under them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even though they're there somewhat, How shaky was

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Speaker 3: it to navigate a double album of clearly two different

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Speaker 3: sides right, and not only make it work, but make

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Speaker 3: it one of their most and to take them on stage.

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Speaker 3: I was there that night. I couldn't believe that shit.

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Speaker 3: How hard not hard, or how worrisome were you to

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Speaker 3: like go with your gut being the I'm assuming that

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Speaker 3: you're now manning the ship for at least that album,

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Speaker 3: that you didn't have to go there to guide you.

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Speaker 5: So things that kind of changed. They really grew intoday.

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Speaker 5: They really had grown into it. I mean this was

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Speaker 5: after Stink On YOUA, right, and which was a massive

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Speaker 5: success for them, And I mean the real story was

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Speaker 5: it was big boys solo album, right, and it was

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Speaker 5: complete and it was done and I heard I like

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Speaker 5: the way you moved, so I felt confident that we

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Speaker 5: had like a big single. And Andre called because they

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Speaker 5: weren't working together. I mean, this is fairly common knowledge.

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Speaker 5: I think they weren't working together. And Andre called the office,

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Speaker 5: read when you're dropping Big Boys album.

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Speaker 4: I gave him the date.

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Speaker 5: He's like, so, if I want to drop an album

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Speaker 5: with that.

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Speaker 4: How much time do I have? And I think I

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Speaker 4: told him, you got three weeks.

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Speaker 7: He was like three weeks.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what wait?

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Speaker 1: So we don't know.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know what he had recorded because he wasn't

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Speaker 5: really talking about it at all. He wasn't talking about

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Speaker 5: making a record. Big Boy was gone solo. We've already

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Speaker 5: done a photo shoot, we've picked a single, we've put

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Speaker 5: the date on the calendar.

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Speaker 4: We're moving forward.

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Speaker 5: And then I get that call from Andre and he says,

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Speaker 5: you know, how much time do I have? And that

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Speaker 5: was the first time I had an indication that he

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Speaker 5: wanted to make an album. We not talked about it

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Speaker 5: at all. And I told him three weeks and I

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Speaker 5: just remember him saying okay, and he hung up.

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Speaker 1: He was probably done already.

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Speaker 5: All I remember is that on the night that we

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Speaker 5: had to like turn the album in for parts so

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Speaker 5: we can manufacture. Andre has studios going everywhere, He had

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Speaker 5: mastering going on, He had a couple of mixed rooms

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Speaker 5: going on, he had, He had an ensemble of studios

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Speaker 5: going to make the deadline.

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Speaker 4: He was working his ass off.

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Speaker 5: I went to the studio to visit and heard some

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Speaker 5: of the material, but uh, he finished it and sat

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Speaker 5: down and played it for me, and I was I

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Speaker 5: could not believe what I was hearing man, and and

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Speaker 5: he played me hey, y'all, and I was like, oh

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Speaker 5: my god. And I didn't try to say well, I

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Speaker 5: didn't try to go into the like okay, yeah, this

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Speaker 5: is a smash that. That wasn't how I reacted. I

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Speaker 5: was more blown away that you actually did this in

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Speaker 5: three weeks. And I felt like you did, like you

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Speaker 5: must have had this. There's no way to do this

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Speaker 5: in three weeks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Has a theory though.

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Speaker 3: When Pete Rock was telling the story of how he

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Speaker 3: made public, Getnay shut him down in ten minutes, and

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Speaker 3: one of y'all said, like because of the pressure, Like

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Speaker 3: he didn't have time to overthink it.

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Speaker 7: You're not thinking it, You're just doing Yeah. That's also Quincy.

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Speaker 8: He talks about the alpha state, like he talks about

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Speaker 8: that just recording.

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Speaker 1: Rolysis through analysis.

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Speaker 7: Yea, yeah, just going you're not thinking about it, you're

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Speaker 7: just creating.

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Speaker 3: Right, you will presented with the scenario twice, and I

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Speaker 3: always wanted to know how far did TLC get And

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Speaker 3: going with that initial thing where I believe Lisa suggested

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Speaker 3: all three of us should make solo records and.

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Speaker 4: Oh, not very far.

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Speaker 5: Okay, honestly, not very far at all, because Tea Boys

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Speaker 5: have made a couple of solo songs that for a soundtrack,

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Speaker 5: I could have. Remember, the soundtrack is to Touch Myself record,

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Speaker 5: I Touched.

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Speaker 4: Myself, That's the song. I remember that.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about the that rug wrecks thing, but no,

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Speaker 1: that was that.

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Speaker 4: Would have been after.

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Speaker 5: But so she did it, and it was pretty clear

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Speaker 5: to me that it was the ensemble that was the magic.

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Speaker 4: Right. And I love t bos like I mean, I

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Speaker 4: loved all of them.

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Speaker 5: But I had a particular love for her style, that

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Speaker 5: raspy voice, her kind of her. She kind of approached

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Speaker 5: it like a guy. She was the only girl I've

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Speaker 5: seen approach it like a guy. But but and I

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Speaker 5: just I thought she was so dope. But it was

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Speaker 5: the ensemble that was the real winner there. And then

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Speaker 5: Lisa made a solo album before she passed away, made

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Speaker 5: she rest in peace. I miss her so much, she

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Speaker 5: made a solo album, and I I wasn't blown away

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Speaker 5: by it. I didn't think it was incredible at all,

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Speaker 5: you know, and it was and it was. It was

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Speaker 5: the kind of music I should I should have loved

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Speaker 5: it if it were good. It wasn't like side of

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Speaker 5: my thing, the way I sort of described Goodie Mob

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Speaker 5: as outside of my thing. So I got to defer

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Speaker 5: to them. This wasn't outside of my sweet spot. But

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Speaker 5: I just didn't think it was great. And Chili never

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Speaker 5: actually tried to make a solo record that I can

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Speaker 5: remember until many many years later, So that one didn't

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Speaker 5: get that one didn't go very far.

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Speaker 8: How did you balance, you know, a record like crazy

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Speaker 8: Sexy Cool, where it's on your label but you're also

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Speaker 8: writing and producing.

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Speaker 7: I didn't write, you know, you didn't do baby Face together.

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Speaker 5: That was when that was the last time that I

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Speaker 5: was a writer producer was seven whole Days, Tony Braxton.

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Speaker 4: It was the last time.

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Speaker 5: And after and I did and then I did a

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Speaker 5: song that never made never started, Light of a day

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Speaker 5: with Elton John that Elton called and asked me to produce, right,

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Speaker 5: and it was for a a Curtis Mayfield tribute record.

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Speaker 5: Wasn't commercial at all.

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Speaker 6: Was spending time in Atlanta. For a minute, I was like,

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Speaker 6: were you the reason time a lot?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: But I stopped.

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Speaker 5: I stopped, and Kenny and I stopped working together, and

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Speaker 5: I started spending too much time on the phone. I

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Speaker 5: was transitioning into being an executive.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 5: I was learning how to how independent promotion worked. I

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Speaker 5: was learning how marketing worked. And I was so intrigued

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Speaker 5: with the stuff I didn't know. And people were coming

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Speaker 5: in and telling me about like Janet Jackson's marketing plan.

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Speaker 5: I was like, what's a marketing plan? So I became

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Speaker 5: curious about everything, and and I was hearing words like

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Speaker 5: they shipped a hundred thousand?

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Speaker 1: What's that mean?

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Speaker 7: Shiped a hundred thousand?

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Speaker 5: I just became curious about the business. I think I

350
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Speaker 5: sort of fell out of love with producing and writing.

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Speaker 5: And I was never a great writer. Kenny was a

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Speaker 5: great writer. I was a good producer, but Kenny was

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Speaker 5: a great writer. And I was a collaborator, and I

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Speaker 5: filled in some blanks and had some concepts here and there,

355
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Speaker 5: but he was a great writer. So it was easy

356
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Speaker 5: to sort of step back because I didn't consider myself

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Speaker 5: great at it. In the first place, I felt I

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Speaker 5: felt very lucky.

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Speaker 8: So if the label were was that primarily you running

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Speaker 8: the label and Face just doing the music or was

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Speaker 8: he involved on the label side as well?

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Speaker 5: Now I think if you ask him he would say

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Speaker 5: that He's always said that the label.

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Speaker 4: Was kind of my thing.

365
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Speaker 5: Because I liked the idea of signing talent and doing

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Speaker 5: all that stuff, you know, and picking songs and you know.

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Speaker 8: So for so for a record like a crazy sexy

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Speaker 8: cool where you know, Babyface is doing like a digging

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Speaker 8: on you or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Right, yes, is.

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Speaker 7: There no conflict of ventures.

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Speaker 5: I actually had all of the producers competing and they

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Speaker 5: didn't really know it. Like I had Dallas working on

374
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Speaker 5: it first he was the architect. Then I go play

375
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Speaker 5: it for Jermaine Dupre and be like, I know you

376
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Speaker 5: can beat this, and then I and then you know,

377
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 5: then Kenny is competitive. You don't have to you don't

378
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 5: have to put a battery in Kenny's back. He's so competitive.

379
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Speaker 5: So he sent his songs in and then I went

380
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Speaker 5: to Rico way last and said here's what everybody else

381
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Speaker 5: gave me, what you got and he came over with waterfalls.

382
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Speaker 7: Wow.

383
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Speaker 4: So according to according to.

384
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Speaker 5: Executives at Arista outside of Outcast, they considered crazy sexy

385
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 5: cool my first time as an A and R executive.

386
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Speaker 5: That I wasn't the writer, I wasn't the producer. Uh,

387
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Speaker 5: and that was that's and if it was my first

388
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Speaker 5: I didn't see it that way. But if it was,

389
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Speaker 5: I did okay.

390
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Speaker 3: With with no input from Clive at all, Like, hey.

391
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 5: Clive, not Once it was done, Clive had opinions about

392
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 5: the singles and uh, and we had you know, Creep

393
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Speaker 5: was the first single. I love Creep by the way,

394
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 5: man off. So we shot a video for Creep. Wasn't

395
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Speaker 5: very good.

396
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Speaker 4: I'm damn. So we shot a second video for Creep.

397
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Speaker 4: Oh again, wasn't very good. I'm like, fuck, no trouble. Yeah.

398
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 5: We shot two videos and they weren't good that the

399
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 5: world never saw them, and so I was embarrassed.

400
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Speaker 4: So I switched singles. I said Creeps no longer.

401
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 5: The single we're gonna go with this song called kick

402
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Speaker 5: Your Game that your MANE d pre did.

403
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: Clive was likeld hold it, hold on, why are changing?

404
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 4: What is this?

405
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: What's behind this? You have to.

406
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 5: Explain, right, And Dallas Austin called like, yo, I know

407
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 5: you're not like not putting my single out like he

408
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 5: knew he had a great record, and so I had

409
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Speaker 5: to come clean and say, well, truth be told, like

410
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 5: I made two horrible videos.

411
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 4: And I'm just too embarrassed to tell everybody. So Clive says,

412
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 4: get it right. He said, get it right.

413
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Speaker 5: So I'm with Diddy one day at the at the

414
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 5: Helmsley Palace hotel in New York.

415
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 4: I'm sitting with Diddy.

416
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 5: I play him the TC video that's not good, and

417
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 5: he looks at me.

418
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 4: It's like, oh my god, like.

419
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 5: This is horrible, and he does not make me feel

420
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 5: any better about it. Right while I'm showing him the

421
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,639
Speaker 5: video on one television because I used to have with

422
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 5: this road case that I carried around with speakers and

423
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 5: monitor and every cord like office in a case.

424
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Speaker 4: I was extra. While I'm playing it.

425
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 5: For him on the television, there's a video with InVogue

426
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 5: and Salt and pepper Coat.

427
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 4: What a man?

428
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 6: What a man?

429
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 4: And I look at that video. It looks way better

430
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 4: than our video. I'm like, who directed that is you? Roston? Yeah?

431
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 5: So I called Matthew Rosston and I asked him to

432
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 5: do creep and we got it right, the third time.

433
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Speaker 4: But we threw two videos away to get to the

434
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 4: good one.

435
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: I will do anything to find those original videos.

436
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 6: In a situation like that, though, when when TLC got

437
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 6: to repay the money back, do they gotta pay for

438
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 6: all three of those versions or do they just pay

439
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 6: for the one that made it.

440
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 4: Let's look at it like this. You sell ten million albums.

441
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 6: Okay, I don't know.

442
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: I love it.

443
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 6: That's all I wanted to hear.

444
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: That's all I got because I know, you know what.

445
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 4: Went on to make the great record. Trying to make

446
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: the great video. I'm spending people's money and not.

447
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: Real I'm even with anger because to sit in the

448
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: geff and offices and be told your videos are one

449
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 3: and done, like there is no going back. I can't

450
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 3: believe that. I'm hearing stories.

451
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: Of we didn't think video. We'll take it back, and.

452
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: Then we'll take it back again, and then we take

453
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 3: it back. I hear Mariah made four videos for Vision

454
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 3: of Love, and I'm like.

455
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 7: That's a very old school thing, though, man, that's our.

456
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 3: Label convinced us that, like because we hated our videos.

457
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 4: And literally you couldn't do anything about it.

458
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you were stuck either video or no video, Like,

459
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: oh my god.

460
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 6: Videos, weren't you memorable?

461
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: That's why I hate making videos.

462
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 5: That's being mean to you.

463
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 4: Are not too memorable.

464
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: That's meaning.

465
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 6: The reason that I am here is because I'm the

466
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 6: roots largest fan.

467
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 4: So I can say a couple of truthful things. I'm here.

468
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm neither not bothered either way.

469
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: So okay.

470
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 3: I was always curious the call the night that left

471
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 3: eye burnt the house down, like, were you worried?

472
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: Not worried about stopping the bag?

473
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 4: But it was morning. First of all, it was early morning.

474
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 3: Oh wow, it was early we were We lived in

475
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 3: the same night time crime, not a day.

476
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 5: No, we lived in the same subdivision. We both lived

477
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 5: in Country of the South. My housekeeper at the time

478
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 5: was taking my son, Aaron. She was taking him to school.

479
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 5: He was in the kindergarten all right, or maybe preschool.

480
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 5: But and she called. I want to say, I don't

481
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 5: know if Pebbles was not home or I don't know.

482
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 5: For whatever reason, I answered the phone. She said, I

483
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 5: just drove by Lisa house is on fire. So I

484
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 5: look outside, I see helicopters from me. I'm like, oh shit,

485
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 5: So I just start trying to find Lisa. I just

486
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 5: start trying to find her and I found her right.

487
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 5: I called every number I had, everybody I knew, and

488
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 5: I found her and she said she was okay. She

489
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: said she didn't get hurt. She was okay, and she

490
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 5: told me it wasn't on purpose, it was an accident.

491
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 5: And I immediately went to protect her. And I have

492
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: friends in the police force there, Like the chief of

493
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 5: police was a friend, and I just asked him, like,

494
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 5: can you just help me to protect her, like I

495
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 5: don't want her to be arrested, I don't want anything

496
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 5: to happen.

497
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 4: So he helped me.

498
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 5: We gave her an entire floor at the Swiss hotel

499
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 5: and bucket and with police no one could get on

500
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 5: the floor and she stayed there until she had to

501
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 5: go to court for it and then you know, but yeah,

502
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 5: I didn't think about anything except her safety.

503
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 3: Okay, ninety four ninety five, especially ninety six ninety seven,

504
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: it's probably one of the most tumultuous times.

505
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: In black sec.

506
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 3: Yes, and you know, all right, The thing is is

507
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: that we lived in Europe during this time period, so

508
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: we really were sort of out of the literal crossfire.

509
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 4: You lived in Europe at that time.

510
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: We we The shortest story is that basically we realized

511
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 3: Richard Nichols was intuitive enough to the day that God

512
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 3: Rest his soul, Kurt Kobaine committed suicide. Rich said, the

513
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: label's gonna drop us because by this point Aerosmith that

514
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: went to Sony Guns n' Roses wasn't coming up with

515
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: another album, and now Nirvana's gone, and literally, like those

516
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: three Acts and all the billions that they made enable

517
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 3: geffen'da have a black department, and we were there first

518
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: acts and rich sort of have the spidy sense that

519
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 3: everybody's going to get the Acts, so we better just

520
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: grab our publishing money, run to Europe, get a flat

521
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 3: and then just become like the black version of the commitments,

522
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 3: like get a tour bus and just tour all over Europe.

523
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 3: So we just lived there for like three years straight working,

524
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: so we were really we hadn't met none of our peers,

525
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: none of that stuff, like we come back to record

526
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 3: new albums, see our families. But for the most part

527
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 3: of like six months touring in Europe and spot dates

528
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: like all over the United States touring. But for the

529
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 3: most part we had missed a lot of the stories

530
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 3: that we heard between like what was the trouble brewing

531
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 3: between like executives and you just knew, you knew how

532
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 3: toxic that environment was, how frightening was it being a

533
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: black executive?

534
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: And more important, how did you avoid getting.

535
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 3: Sucked into just the toxic mis of it all where

536
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: beef is now like a regular thing between executives.

537
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, that's a great question. And I have

538
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 5: to tell you, like, I was really concerned. I was

539
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 5: really concerned about it. And because I was, I was

540
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 5: very close to Puffy, right, and I helped start Bad Way,

541
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 5: you know, I helped helped get him the deal for

542
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 5: Bad Boy, and very proud of that, by the way,

543
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: because I actually wanted him to be an A and

544
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 5: R guy at LA face And after one meeting, I

545
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 5: realized that this is this is nobody's employee.

546
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 4: This guy's this guy special, you know. Uh.

547
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 5: And yeah, I was concerned about it, man, because I

548
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 5: felt I felt like Atlanta wasn't the East or the West,

549
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 5: so we were kind of we weren't viewed as the

550
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 5: competition for either the East or the West. Right, whatever

551
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 5: we were doing in Atlanta, even though like we were,

552
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 5: we were we were having hits.

553
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 4: But culturally, the impact of the West Coast was.

554
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 5: Really huge, right with Snoop and Dray and Park and

555
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 5: all that, and then the Bad Boy on the East Coast.

556
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 5: Those things were like very front facing, and what we

557
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: did at La Face wasn't as front facing like our

558
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 5: artists were.

559
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 4: But Kenny and I weren't like that. We weren't. There

560
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 4: was no change, No, you know, we weren't like that.

561
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 4: You know so.

562
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: But I can only imagine that the more success you got,

563
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: the more it puts you out front to become sucked

564
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 3: into that because I don't think I don't think that

565
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: there would be a bad Boy death row thing if

566
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: Puffy were releasing records produced by me. I mean not

567
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: to be self deprecating, but I'm just saying that obviously

568
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: there's a competition thing on what label's gonna wind up

569
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 3: on top, and you're actually selling more units than both

570
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: those labels, at least for.

571
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 4: Their artists alive, right, right, right.

572
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: I mean you could have been an easy target.

573
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 5: I thought I was avoiding it. Man, It's best I could,

574
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 5: and I knew everybody.

575
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: I mean, relationships with Sugar and you have relationship with Ruffy.

576
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 4: And yes, yes, and I didn't know. I did not

577
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 4: know Biggie and.

578
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 5: I did not know Tupac, right, I never I can't

579
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 5: say I knew either of them. I probably had one

580
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: handshake with each person and in a sort of passing,

581
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 5: but I didn't know them. And yeah, so I have

582
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 5: I tried hard, and I won't kid you. I am

583
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 5: nobody's tough guy. I tried desperately to avoid ever being

584
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 5: in the room.

585
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 4: I wouldn't even go to.

586
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: Would you go to Jack the Rappers and all those

587
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: things before?

588
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 4: I would?

589
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: But there was important? Was that important to go to

590
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: or was that just a vanity thing?

591
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 4: You know what?

592
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 5: It was important because all the DJs were there, like

593
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 5: all the dj and at that time, DJs could make

594
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 5: a decision about which records they played right before before

595
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 5: the conglomerates took over, you know, DJ's had some say

596
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 5: they had to say and what they played.

597
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: And so we did.

598
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 5: And all of the labels competitors were there. You got

599
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 5: a chance to see what the other label had, what

600
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 5: they had coming, and if you needed to go back

601
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 5: and do better or find another song or find another act.

602
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 5: So and it was it was good camaraderie. It was

603
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 5: really good until it wasn't. When it got bad, it

604
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 5: got bad, and that's when I stopped going, you know.

605
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 5: But I just tried to avoid it, man, and just

606
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 5: stayed to myself as much as I could, and trying

607
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 5: to sort of diminish my presence. As crazy as that sound, right,

608
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 5: I didn't want to be you know. We didn't even

609
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 5: have photo we didn't take pictures of nothing. We just

610
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 5: stayed in the background as much as we could.

611
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: Was there an act that you kind of purposely passed

612
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: on signing just because like, uh, this might cause smoke

613
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 3: for the label.

614
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 4: Or probably like I don't remember a name.

615
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 5: But I didn't actively look for artists in New York

616
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: and LA.

617
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 4: I didn't. I really didn't. I didn't. I ain't even

618
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 4: gonna lie, right, I did not actively look.

619
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 5: And so I was getting chatt at newgou Tennessee, Atlanta, Georgia.

620
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 4: You know you know what I mean, des Moines, Iowa.

621
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 7: I was.

622
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 3: Speaking of chattan New good Tennessee. Can we finally settle

623
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 3: this once and for all?

624
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: Can you please tell us.

625
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 5: No I saw I saw, I saw what I saw

626
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 5: What Tevin said I never had to say in that

627
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 5: because Kenny wrote that song and he produced it on

628
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 5: Tevin Campbell and that was it. Like there was never

629
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 5: like a conversation like should we give it the Usher

630
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: or should I.

631
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 4: There was never a conversation.

632
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 5: Ken and I were not working as writer producer partners

633
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 5: at that moment. That that he did completely on his

634
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 5: own and gave it to Tevin, Tevin saying the hell

635
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 5: out of it, uh, and it worked.

636
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 4: So there there was never any back and forth.

637
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: So you never had a sick, griffy moment where like

638
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:02,239
Speaker 3: The Face gave a song to someone that you know

639
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 3: you could have used that song for your artist, and

640
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 3: it's like, yo, come on dog, like I could have

641
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 3: used that. I asked you last week if you had

642
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 3: something for TLC and you said.

643
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 4: No, no, No. It wasn't really like that. And I

644
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 4: was also very.

645
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 5: Clear about Kenny's ambitions as a writer, right Kenny wanted

646
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 5: the greatest artists possible to sing his songs.

647
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 4: And it wasn't about for him.

648
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 5: It was never about whether it was on the Face

649
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 5: or whether it was on Arista or Epic or He

650
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 5: never thought about it that way. He thought about it

651
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 5: as like the song girlfriend that Pebbles got, the reason

652
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 5: she got it is because he thought her voice was

653
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 5: the right voice for the song. It was originally for

654
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 5: Vanessa Williams right, and he thought, he said, it's not

655
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 5: right for Vanessa because he listened to as a as

656
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 5: a musician, as an artist, as a writer, producer, he

657
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 5: listened to the voices and he made his decisions based

658
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 5: on the voices.

659
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 4: And how do you argue with that?

660
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 3: There's definitely a big difference between the pink that signed

661
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: to Lea Face first few records and the artists that

662
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 3: she morphed into. So how what what's the what's the

663
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 3: conversation and the metamorphoses where.

664
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: You know, there's a beginning.

665
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: And then there's definitely a separation from what she was

666
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 3: and you were You're part of that process, So like, yes,

667
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: at what point do you realize maybe I should loosen

668
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 3: the strings somewhat and see where they go with it?

669
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 4: Right?

670
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 5: So first album, she did that album as a member

671
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 5: of the group Choice, and then they disbanded and we

672
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 5: continued the process, and some of the songs that were

673
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 5: made for Choice she kept them. But we struggled in

674
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 5: the beginning. We really struggled because she was still growing,

675
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 5: she was very young, and she was still finding herself,

676
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 5: finding her style, and so we the first album we

677
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 5: did the best we could do right. It was called

678
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,919
Speaker 5: Can't Take Me Home. Loved her concepts, loved her how

679
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 5: she thought about it, and I loved her voice and

680
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 5: her energy. She was incredible musically. It was a little

681
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 5: bit undefined and all over the place when it got

682
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 5: so but we had We had a hit with with

683
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 5: there You Go and Uh, and she had a second

684
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 5: hit called most Girls, not as big a hit, but

685
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 5: it did really well. So when it came to her

686
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 5: second album, she hooked up with Dallas Austin, her and

687
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 5: KP basically oversaw it, and then she hooked up with

688
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 5: Linda Perry. And when she first brought it to me,

689
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 5: I was like, wait a minute, you're abandoning like the

690
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 5: urban thing that you started on your first album. Be

691
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 5: sure about that. And she was like, yeah, I'm not

692
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 5: trying to repeat that. I'm onto something really special. And

693
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 5: I was like, okay, I don't know. I was like,

694
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 5: I'll tell you what. If you feel passionately about it,

695
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 5: I'm gonna step back do your thing right.

696
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 4: And my exact words to her was because I was

697
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 4: I got.

698
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 5: This from Dick Griffy. I said, I'm gonna give you

699
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 5: an opportunity to fail.

700
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: Yourself.

701
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I said that, and I ain't really know

702
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 5: what it meant, but I said it because Dick Griffy

703
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 5: said it anyway.

704
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 4: And so she did it.

705
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 5: She came back and she played me get the Party started,

706
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 5: eighteen Wheeler, and she played me all those songs, and

707
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 5: I was like, oh my.

708
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 4: God, this girl's made up.

709
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 5: She made a real album and we went to work

710
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 5: her throw up with Dave Myers. They made a great

711
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 5: video and she was off to the races after that.

712
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 5: When it came to her third album, I wasn't involved

713
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 5: at all. I was involved at all. She got a

714
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 5: new manager, Roger Davis, very famous manager who also mat

715
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 5: just TEENA Turner. Yeah, Roger Davis, Roger Davies. So her

716
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 5: and Roger kind of they did it all and just

717
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 5: turned it in like. I wasn't involved at all. And

718
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 5: when it was done, I didn't think it was particularly good, honestly,

719
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 5: and I left the company right as it was time

720
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 5: to release it. So and it didn't do that great.

721
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 3: I don't understand when La Face just amalgamates into Arista,

722
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 3: but do I recall when you actually went back to school.

723
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: I did because Swizz did the same thing, Like what

724
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: is this?

725
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 5: So what happened is I got contacted by the Birtlesman,

726
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 5: the company that owned the aristag BMG. They had a BMG,

727
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 5: visited me, came to Atlanta, visited me. This was early too, man,

728
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 5: This was like probably ninety four, and that early on

729
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 5: they said we would like to We want you to

730
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 5: prep yourself because at some point we want you to take.

731
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 4: Over aris to records.

732
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, right, that's what I thought

733
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 5: to my I don't even believe it.

734
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 4: Ninety four Okay.

735
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 5: So a couple of years ago by and they call again,

736
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 5: and instead this time they don't say aris that. They said,

737
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 5: we would like for you to go back to school.

738
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 5: We would like you to go to school. We can

739
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 5: get you enrolled in a program at Harvard. You'll have

740
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 5: to go and stay on campus. You got to stay

741
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 5: for ten weeks. You cannot run the company. You can't

742
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 5: talk to your artists, you can't talk to your executives.

743
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 5: You can talk to your family, but we need you

744
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 5: on the campus and we need you to put in

745
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 5: fifty to sixty hours a week doing case studies and

746
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 5: living on the campus and really studying international business.

747
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: Okay, it's like a jail sentence.

748
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 5: I liked the idea of it because I didn't go

749
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 5: to college, and I regretted not going to college because

750
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 5: I opted to be a musician. I opted to go

751
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 5: on the road that was college to me. So I

752
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 5: liked this idea. So I went and I stayed there

753
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 5: for my ten weeks and it was really hard, because

754
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 5: it was really really hard. So I got kids on

755
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 5: the campus to tutor me and helped me get through it.

756
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 5: And I made friends with other people in that were

757
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 5: in my in my dorm, so it was like the

758
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 5: students were teaching each other.

759
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 3: So you really had to go to Harvard and stay

760
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: at Harvard. And do you had to do that?

761
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

762
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I lived on campus and I'm a and at

763
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 5: this point, like i'm a.

764
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 4: I live in Atlanta, I'm I'm I'm a.

765
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 5: Musician's half musician, half executive. You know, I'm a hybrid.

766
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 5: I'm a very weird hybrid. I don't know how to dress,

767
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 5: I don't know how to walk, I don't know how

768
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 5: to talk.

769
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: I don't know which handshake do you. I'm like completely confused.

770
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 5: I'm gonna fish out of water in the greatest institution

771
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 5: in the world apparently, right.

772
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 4: Uh So it was very intimidating. Everybody seemed so smart.

773
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 5: I mean the accents you know when you hear when

774
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 5: you hear when you hear guys with Indian accent talking

775
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 5: about ebitda, it sounds smarter. You know, guys from the UK,

776
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 5: they always sound smarter than we do, right, right, So

777
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 5: it's just all very intimidating.

778
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 4: And then I found my group.

779
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 5: Right around halfway point, I started to find my groove

780
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 5: and and and figured it out. And at the end

781
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 5: of it, I graduated, And I didn't know if I

782
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 5: would What were.

783
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 7: Some of the things you learned from that program? Like

784
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 7: how did that?

785
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 4: We really studied businesses.

786
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 5: We studied things like things that you would love, like

787
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 5: we studied decisions that Phil.

788
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 4: Nightmaye to make Nike a success.

789
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 5: We discovered you know, things like that, like and we

790
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 5: would take it in steps, like they would present us

791
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 5: a case.

792
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 4: They would show us the dilemma or.

793
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,439
Speaker 5: Where the company could go one way or another, and

794
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 5: then they would test us basically basically like what decision

795
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 5: would you make here? And then we would go to

796
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 5: the next sort of chapter of the story. And it

797
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 5: was just basically case studies, studying each person's case not

798
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 5: only in entertainment but or or in apparel, but everything

799
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 5: from public utilities to you know, hospital to grocery stores

800
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 5: to automotive, Toyota to Disney. We'd study we studied businesses.

801
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 3: There's of course a famous book out now called the

802
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 3: Harvard Report where they first did a case study of

803
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: Clive Davis, Yes, embracing black music. Were they still using

804
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 3: that book as.

805
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 4: A No, we never got there.

806
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 5: But they have so many like they collect case They

807
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 5: collect case studies from all over the world, and each

808
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 5: professor would let the cases that he wants to use

809
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 5: in UH, in his classrooms. But there's no there's no

810
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 5: set stories. I knew about the Clive. They actually did

811
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 5: one with me about UH. It was like the study

812
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 5: of black music, right, and.

813
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 4: They did. I know a lot of people that they've

814
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 4: actually done the reports.

815
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 5: They don't publish them all, they don't actually use them all,

816
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 5: but they just basically collect information and and and they

817
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 5: teach it and and it's good. The way we went

818
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 5: about it, it was intimidating at first, UH, until I

819
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 5: got my groove and realized that there were things I

820
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 5: knew that some of the people in that they didn't know.

821
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 4: Once I got that confidence, I was like, okay.

822
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 7: Because they studying business that you've been running on.

823
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, I have one confession's question.

824
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 3: I kind of consider Confessions the end of the parentheses

825
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: of whatever.

826
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: I mean.

827
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: I really can't tell, Like what the first mega album

828
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 3: maybe Carol King's Tapestry. It was like one of the

829
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 3: first mega selling records, but you know us there's Confessions

830
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 3: comes at a time when streaming culture is about to

831
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 3: confuse the whole entire industry.

832
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: Where buying a tangible record is a vote. So this

833
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: is kind of a part one and part two thing.

834
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 3: When when Confessions was said and done, did you realize

835
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 3: then that there will never be another mega selling album

836
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: of this nature again in the music business.

837
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: Wow?

838
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 4: No, I ain't thinking that's incredible that you should say that.

839
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: But no, Confessions is the like after that.

840
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 4: Then that's the last. That's the last, like diamond album.

841
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 3: Yes, literally, because after that streaming comes in ruins it.

842
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 3: But I was asking that only because of his Atlanta roots.

843
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 3: I always wanted to ask a CEO at least what

844
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 3: their feelings of what streaming was threatening to be, and

845
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 3: of course you know there there's the napster situation that

846
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 3: sort of confused people and have them in their feelings

847
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 3: and then accepting iTunes and whatnot, even down to DJ

848
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 3: Drama's arrest, Like, could you talk about what the what

849
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: the at least the scary environment for what music was

850
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 3: about to become?

851
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: Now somehow you managed.

852
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 5: To There was a piece in the between that which

853
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 5: was downloads, and downloads, while they weren't physical, were still

854
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 5: a la carte. There was still like sales. So the

855
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 5: next the next chapter of successes were measured through downloads, right,

856
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 5: some physical not that much, you know, but CDs were

857
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 5: dwindling badly, Vinyl was completely out of out of the count, uh,

858
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 5: and downloads with a thing, so we still had.

859
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 3: But as president, did you feel the pressure that I

860
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 3: got to figure out something quick? Like all my record

861
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 3: all my label, like my artists went from ten million

862
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 3: to now to sell three million is an.

863
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: Achievement, although it's not your fault per se, just right, right?

864
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, how are you dealing with that as a CEO

865
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: like and as an executive?

866
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, the idea was just to not bottom out the

867
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 5: idea was, yes, the sales are dwindling, and it's across

868
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 5: the board. It's not one company that's dwind it's not

869
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 5: one artist that's that sales are dwindling. The entire industry

870
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 5: is going down the tube. Napster's introduced the download, so

871
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 5: we're fighting piracy and at a rate that we've never

872
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 5: had to fight piracy, at least that we know of.

873
00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 5: So with that being the reality, it was just get

874
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 5: the best artists and the best records you can and

875
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 5: do the best you can. And I never really measured

876
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 5: it against Like. I didn't even know that fact.

877
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 4: I didn't know that Confessions Like was maybe the last diamond.

878
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 3: I didn't even know that Confessions and speaker Box were

879
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 3: the last of the movie.

880
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 5: I didn't even realize that, So I didn't I didn't,

881
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 5: in my mind, compete with it.

882
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 4: I didn't think of it that way.

883
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 5: I thought of it more as meaningful bodies of work,

884
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 5: which I felt Kanye made as an example right, And

885
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 5: I was really proud of everything for the time I

886
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 5: was around him. I was proud of those records and

887
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 5: I felt that they were I felt they measured up

888
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 5: to whatever we did at with Outcasts, whatever we did

889
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 5: with Usher, And I also had like Mariah Carey's Emancipation

890
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 5: of Me Me Right, and.

891
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 4: That felt like the for me, that felt.

892
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 5: Like the follow up to Confessions Right, some of the

893
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 5: same kind of sounding records.

894
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 4: That's how I looked at it.

895
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 5: But I didn't look at the sales, and I didn't

896
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 5: look at the challenge that we had as an industry

897
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 5: as a threat.

898
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 4: I looked at it more as, yes, we need to

899
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 4: figure this out.

900
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 3: And once you come to death Jam, like you kind

901
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 3: of have to start all over again, Like what is

902
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 3: it to meet your especially coming from where they came

903
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 3: from as far as like the the era of Julie

904
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 3: and and le or yeah, like to come in there

905
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: and to be the new guy, like was.

906
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: It crazy eyes?

907
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 4: And oh my god, man, it was crazy? It was.

908
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 4: It was crazy.

909
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: It was nice to you.

910
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 4: Crazy.

911
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 5: Wasn't there when I got there? Okay, she came once

912
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 5: once Jay was president, right, but man, it was it

913
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 5: was scary because it was a real. First of all,

914
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 5: I didn't realize. Here's the thing about Death Jam, Like,

915
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 5: if you're part of that culture, you realize how important

916
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 5: that culture is. If you're not a part of it,

917
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 5: you don't really know. So it's crazy as this sound.

918
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 5: I didn't know that it was what it was like.

919
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 5: It wasn't that to us in Atlanta. I mean, it

920
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 5: was a successful company. It was big. We respected. We

921
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 5: knew Russell, we knew Rick Rubin, we knew le Ric Cohen,

922
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 5: we knew Chris Leidy, we knew cool j.

923
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 7: We knew it.

924
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 5: But we didn't think of it as the institution that

925
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 5: it was.

926
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 4: We didn't see it that way.

927
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 5: So when I walked in, I was shocked by I

928
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 5: was shocked by it all.

929
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 4: I was shocked by.

930
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 5: The voice of the community and their opinions about anything

931
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 5: that happened. I didn't realize that theft jam belonged to

932
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 5: the streets. It belonged to the people, like you know

933
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 5: it funk Master Flex had to say, and every I

934
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 5: mean just making up named anybody right, everybody had a

935
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 5: say in it. So when I came in as a

936
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 5: new chairman of the company, coming from my background, I

937
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 5: was immediately made to feel uncomfortable. Right executives were taking

938
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 5: out articles in the newspaper and magazine talking about how

939
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 5: I wasn't fit for it and how you know, how

940
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 5: would I know how to go talk to DMX like

941
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 5: you know it was and I felt it. I really did.

942
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 5: I felt it. And I didn't feel welcome at all.

943
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 5: And I loved Julie. I think she's one of the

944
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 5: most remarkable executives in the world. I love Kevin. I

945
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 5: think he's one of the most remarkable executives in the world.

946
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 5: Nither of them made me feel welcome. And and oh wait.

947
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 3: So they Kevin and Julie were still there when you came.

948
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 3: Oh I kind of thought they all left together.

949
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, they they were there when I got there, only

950
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 5: le Or had left. And I didn't feel very welcome, right,

951
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 5: And I didn't feel welcome.

952
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 4: By the artist either. The artists at that time.

953
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 5: You know, I loved them, right method Man, Redman, ghost Face, Ello,

954
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 5: cool J the only one, and jay Z was like

955
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 5: on semi Retireronment Rockefeller. And the artist that embraced me

956
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 5: was Kanye West. Wow, that was the one that embraced me.

957
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 7: Right.

958
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: That helps.

959
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 4: That helped a lot.

960
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 5: And this is early Kanye before he released his first

961
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 5: album right, although it was already done and slated to

962
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 5: be released when I came to the company. But I

963
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 5: met him and he said to me, because you understand outcasts,

964
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 5: you'll probably understand me. And that's how that was the

965
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 5: first conversation we ever had.

966
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 4: And I locked in with him.

967
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 5: And then Mariah called, and because her and I wanted

968
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 5: to work together for years, I tried to sign her

969
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 5: at Ariston when she first left Sony and so I

970
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 5: had Mariah embracing me, but no one else. So Mariah says,

971
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 5: I'm on the phone with Mariah. This is really good,

972
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 5: and she says, you know how you can put the

973
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 5: fire out? I was like, how she said, make Jay.

974
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 4: Z the president? Oh man, No, that's Mariah. You don't

975
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 4: like that idea?

976
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 6: No, Well, are you asking the wrong person?

977
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,240
Speaker 1: I'm kind of overprotective.

978
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 6: I mean I was.

979
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:10,959
Speaker 4: I was way overprotective of the ruse.

980
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 6: I had a whole conversation with Jay on the radio

981
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 6: about the way he was handling his presidency and the

982
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 6: way he was handling all the Philadelphia acts at the time.

983
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: So no, as a.

984
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 6: Radio person and for the Philadelphia person, I was not

985
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 6: feeling that. But the artist, he's.

986
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 5: Great, Oh yeah, okay, anyway, But but you know what

987
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 5: when I when I so Mariah put the idea in

988
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 5: my head, I presented it to Jay didn't get an

989
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 5: answer right away. Eventually we were able to come to

990
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 5: terms and he became the president of Death Jam and

991
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 5: at that point that made the peace and everybody left me.

992
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 6: Alone and Method but Method, man, I wasn't happy those face.

993
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 3: Wasn't that's that's something I did not know.

994
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

995
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, And a lot of the artists, like I met

996
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 5: a few artists that that have said to me that

997
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 5: they because it's two way street. When you become you're

998
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 5: the head of a label and you come in to

999
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 5: an established company, you're auditioning for them. It's not the

1000
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 5: other way around. It's not the artists need to prove

1001
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 5: to you. You need to prove to the artists, right.

1002
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 5: And many of the artists were like, we're not even

1003
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 5: gonna give you a chance because A we think you

1004
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 5: might be r and b B we think you pop

1005
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 5: either way, we don't think you're hip hop, so I

1006
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 5: might be coming to your office, right. So so that

1007
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 5: was a very difficult thing.

1008
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 4: And I was like, yo, okay, I hear y'all.

1009
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 5: I still have the biggest selling hip hop album of

1010
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 5: all time.

1011
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: Do I get a do I get do I get

1012
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 4: a meeting?

1013
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 5: Because you ain't beat to speaker box a lot below yet,

1014
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 5: so can I at least get a meeting.

1015
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: I can't even believe that you would have to beg

1016
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: for a meeting.

1017
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 4: I was not embraced.

1018
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 5: It's okay though, Like I'm not saying that, Like I

1019
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 5: I was cool.

1020
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 4: Uh, And I just embraced those that embraced me. We

1021
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 4: and we ended up.

1022
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 5: We created a different kind of label as Chris Light

1023
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 5: he made he rest in peace.

1024
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 4: I loved him. He said, this is a face jam.

1025
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 4: This is not deaf jam.

1026
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 3: One very unusual deaf jam signee at the time that

1027
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 3: I considered, can you talk about what it took to

1028
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 3: market and break Justin Bieber?

1029
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 4: Oh?

1030
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 5: Yes, So I love that. That was a that was

1031
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 5: that was a gift from Usher.

1032
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 4: Right. Usher came in, he said, I have a gift

1033
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 4: for you. He came in. I thought he was gonna

1034
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 4: bring me cigars or something. I love the story. I

1035
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 4: love the story. Yes, I love it. That was a gift.

1036
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 5: Yes, And he walks in with fourteen year old Justin Bieber.

1037
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 5: Justin cames in, comes in, and he's beating on the table, right,

1038
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 5: and he's playing the piano, he's playing the guitar, and

1039
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 5: he's singing, he's jumping around, he's talking, he's a mile

1040
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 5: a minute, and I'm just staring at him like this star,

1041
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 5: Like I mean, I got my star hat on. I'm like,

1042
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 5: this is a this dude, this is star. I'm telling

1043
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 5: you guys. I thought I I ain't gonna lie. I

1044
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 5: thought I met Elvis.

1045
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: Wow.

1046
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 5: I seriously, I was like this dude right here. Because

1047
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 5: the girls all talked about how pretty his face was.

1048
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 5: Not not pretty like in a negative way, but in

1049
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 5: a way that they loved him right. All the girls

1050
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 5: loved him. And then artists that not all artists, but

1051
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 5: many artists like kind of liked him. And so we

1052
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 5: went about making the record, and the first record with strategy.

1053
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,919
Speaker 5: You want to do strategically. I have this theory that

1054
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 5: Blue Eyed Soul is the music that has the greatest

1055
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 5: opportunity for global success. That's that's my opinion. So we

1056
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 5: put him on black radio first thing out, put him

1057
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 5: on V one o three and it was wow. That's

1058
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:02,919
Speaker 5: where it started. He had a song called one Time

1059
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 5: Before Baby, we put we put it on V one

1060
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 5: o three and and we that's what we did, man.

1061
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 5: We we went black first mm hmm. And then we

1062
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 5: put it on read them and then we crossed it over.

1063
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 5: But we wanted to we wanted to give him, uh

1064
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 5: some black foundation. And he had he had the check,

1065
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 5: the endorsement because of Usher and Me, so he had

1066
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 5: real and and and Dreaming Tricky were making his records,

1067
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 5: so he had he was covered.

1068
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 6: Well, he could have went the other way because wasn't

1069
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 6: it a battle between Usher and was it justin because

1070
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 6: they both.

1071
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 5: Wanted him and and then and after that, uh, then

1072
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 5: Kanye embraced him, you know, and it.

1073
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 4: Just everyone felt like everybody else, Yeah.

1074
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 3: All right, I'm gonna slowly wind this down, okay, and

1075
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 3: we I can't believe that at this point.

1076
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's like the old school here.

1077
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 7: We're not gonna fe.

1078
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: This might this might be three episodes.

1079
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 4: My sisters just smiled when you say we're gonna wind

1080
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 4: this down.

1081
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: I've seen her.

1082
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 6: Walk past about three four times, like I'm not I'm

1083
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 6: just saying, I ain't saying.

1084
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 3: I mean, at this rate, where you've worked at labels

1085
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 3: and whatnot, do you believe in the theory that I

1086
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 3: hear people say all the time, like it's going to

1087
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:23,439
Speaker 3: be the end of labels, no more labels if it

1088
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 3: is going to be the end of labels, what will

1089
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 3: happen to music next? Because I do feel like something

1090
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 3: is going to eventually give. Like I feel like this

1091
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: this decade that we're in the twenties, everything is giving.

1092
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 3: So should music follow suit? Are you I don't, Are

1093
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 3: you prepare to aid in the next step of it?

1094
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 3: Or is it sort of like, all right, I've done

1095
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 3: my bit, I'm gonna sit out.

1096
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 4: I'm definitely not done. First of all, I ain't said nothing. Man,

1097
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 4: they got to they gotta.

1098
00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 5: You know, they try to take my head off. I

1099
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 5: still got my head, so sorry. So I don't believe

1100
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 5: in that. I think that labels have historically not been

1101
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 5: well loved, well liked, and for for for the right

1102
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 5: reasons probably, but throughout time people have not record labels

1103
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 5: do not have a great public perception, no matter what

1104
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 5: it is, no matter you know, culturally maybe so like

1105
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 5: people like Deaf Jam or people like bad Boy or

1106
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 5: a Motown or whatever, right, but culturally it may have

1107
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 5: a lot of impact, But the public perception are that

1108
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 5: record companies are generally.

1109
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 4: Brooks, not upstanding people. Uh So, people have always wanted

1110
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 4: to see the demise of record labels.

1111
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 5: I think that, And so now we live in an

1112
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 5: era of independence, right where, And that's good in that,

1113
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 5: and there's bad in that, right The bad in that

1114
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 5: is that there is no barrier to entry, there's no filter.

1115
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 5: So every thing is out, Everything is on Spotify, everything

1116
00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 5: is on Apple, everything is on SoundCloud, everything everything like,

1117
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 5: there's no filter for it, right, And so now we're

1118
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 5: leaving it to the editorial people or the music editors

1119
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 5: to make the decisions about which songs are good enough

1120
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 5: to be on the world's biggest playlist.

1121
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 4: But they're picking from sixty thousand a day.

1122
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 6: I like it.

1123
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 5: So I don't see that as I don't see that

1124
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 5: as great right at all, because I like the idea

1125
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 5: that taste makers, curators of music, passionate music people make decisions.

1126
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 4: About what they love based on their.

1127
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 5: Experiences, and those things get a shot, not that the

1128
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 5: other things shouldn't get a shot. But I don't like

1129
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 5: the idea that it's a free for all, And there's

1130
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 5: a fallacy there that you can be chance the rapper,

1131
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 5: and you can be independent and make it all the

1132
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 5: way to the top. But as I understand it, he's

1133
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 5: probably got fifty like employees and a lot of money

1134
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 5: and all kinds of stuff. That's not exactly the same

1135
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 5: thing as being just a starving kid in Columbus, Ohio

1136
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 5: who wants to be independent, right, That's not the.

1137
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: Same as he has money.

1138
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 5: So if you're a kid, if you're a fifteen year

1139
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 5: old kid in Columbus, Ohio, and you don't have a

1140
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 5: record label and you're told to do it on.

1141
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 4: Your own, man, you don't know what to do.

1142
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 5: You do not know what to do, right, So that

1143
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 5: means that you're gonna put your music out. It might

1144
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 5: get wasted, You're gonna waste a lot of time, You're

1145
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 5: gonna get discouraged, and we might actually not see the

1146
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 5: next star because you've been discouraged before you get an

1147
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 5: opportunity to come out of the gate. Whereas if someone

1148
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 5: embraces you and put their arm around you and says,

1149
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 5: you know, I believe in you, and oh, by the way,

1150
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 5: I'm leaving out something very important.

1151
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: You're you're a.

1152
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 5: Highly trained, wildly successful, massively talented musician, and you respect

1153
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 5: people who put the time in that you put in,

1154
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 5: whether you like their music or not like their music.

1155
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 5: You respect the fact that all of you guys are

1156
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 5: seasoned executives and seasoned professionals, and you respect people who do.

1157
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 4: There's something to be said for the people who are

1158
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 4: just doing it as a hobby, who aren't serious, who

1159
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 4: are as serious as you are, who are as talented

1160
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 4: as you are, who are who haven't been challenged the

1161
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 4: way you have, who have never been on stage. Right,

1162
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 4: there's something to be said for the fact that we

1163
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 4: need the music infrastructure as a training ground.

1164
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 5: Right, somebody needs to know what it's like. I mean,

1165
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 5: that's so anyway, my feelings about it are. I'm very passionate.

1166
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 5: It's not it's not actually gone. Record labels make more

1167
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:50,959
Speaker 5: money than.

1168
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 4: They ever made?

1169
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: Is that true?

1170
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 3: Record labels make more money than they ever made? Are

1171
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 3: truly we thought that record labels were kind of on.

1172
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, record labels are killing it.

1173
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 5: Universal Music is worth over fifty billion dollars bro a

1174
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 5: music company. I'm not talking about film or TV or tech.

1175
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 5: I'm talking about music content that you created.

1176
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 6: Right, But Universal at this point owned so many properties

1177
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 6: in that way, right, Like not it's not as many individuals.

1178
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 4: I mean, they've been they've been gobbling up labels for years.

1179
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 5: But the point is that they are making the record

1180
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 5: labels are making an absolute fortune, Okay, an absolute fortune,

1181
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 5: and I don't begrudge it.

1182
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 4: It's beautiful.

1183
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: You know.

1184
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 5: I wish I was right there getting bonuses right now,

1185
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 5: and I'm not mad at it. But the point of

1186
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 5: it is that the infrastructure hasn't died. It takes a

1187
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 5: record label to say, okay, hey, little Naz that's an example,

1188
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 5: Little Naz X. He comes out with his old Town Road,

1189
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 5: it becomes some kind of a phenomenon independently by the

1190
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 5: way it gets picked up by a major label. This

1191
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 5: is an artist like him or not. This is an

1192
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 5: artist that has a massive creative vision right and it

1193
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 5: needs to have the kind of financial support that he

1194
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,919
Speaker 5: can he can get that off. He can't do that independently.

1195
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 5: Those ideas are too big, honestly, those I just those

1196
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,919
Speaker 5: ideas are very expensive. Otherwise we get a we get

1197
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 5: a fraction of who this artist could be if he

1198
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 5: wasn't signed to Columbia Records. I'm saying that he would

1199
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 5: be a success, but he'd be a fraction of the

1200
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 5: artist that he could be because now he has the infrastructure.

1201
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 4: To really get it off.

1202
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:37,919
Speaker 7: He's an artist that fits in that mold.

1203
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 8: I mean for me, when I talk young artists coming up,

1204
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 8: my thing is just if you're gonna sign to a label,

1205
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 8: if you're gonna do that, my advice is, if you're

1206
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 8: gonna do it, you might as well play big.

1207
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 7: You might as well swing for the fences. Like that's

1208
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 7: the only reason to do it.

1209
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 8: That's the only reason if you just want to, if

1210
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 8: you're just truly an independent person, not just as a label,

1211
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 8: but just as a creator, you know what I mean,

1212
01:03:58,760 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 8: if you just want to look, I just want to

1213
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 8: do ship when I feel like it, put it out

1214
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 8: when I feel like it.

1215
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 7: It's great. But a major label is not for you, Like,

1216
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 7: that's not what that is.

1217
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 4: It's not for everybody. But to me, the game is

1218
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 4: not for everybody.

1219
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 5: That's what I'm trying to say, is that it's not

1220
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 5: for everybody, and it shouldn't be so easy to get in.

1221
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 4: It's hard.

1222
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 5: It takes it's harder to You can't just get in

1223
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 5: the NBA because you like basketball, it's right.

1224
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:25,959
Speaker 6: Can there be some gray in between what you're saying

1225
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 6: and what's going on right now? Is there more gray

1226
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 6: than your mate?

1227
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 4: Possibly? I'm open minded, that's quite possible.

1228
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 5: But what I'm but but what i'm what I am,

1229
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 5: what I am a strong advocate of, is are you

1230
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 5: serious about the game?

1231
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 4: Are you serious about this?

1232
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 5: Because ship I don't like the idea like this is

1233
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 5: not this is not for hobbyists.

1234
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 4: Serious don't mean what it used to mean. Serious I know,

1235
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 4: and that bothers me.

1236
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 6: Serious don't mean trade, reading your trades and reading all

1237
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 6: your books that don't.

1238
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 3: But are you the last of the Mohicans? Like I

1239
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 3: know there's you, I know there's Sylvia. I don't know

1240
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 3: if Doug Marris is still in the game or not,

1241
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 3: but you know, like someone else is running that. I

1242
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: don't know who's running Death Jam now, but someone that.

1243
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 5: Yes, And he's really talented and and I'm happy, I'm proud.

1244
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 5: I will support and promote and and do anything. He

1245
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 5: is really talented. And he's about that music. He's about culture.

1246
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 5: He's bringing African culture into the country. He's looking forward,

1247
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 5: and he's doing it based on talent. He's doing it

1248
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 5: based on qualification. And he's not just looking at at

1249
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 5: data and saying I should sign this because extremely he's

1250
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 5: looking at and he's listening to the me.

1251
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 8: It was very much it very much reminded me his

1252
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 8: trajectory was very much like you in the sense that

1253
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 8: he cool was like his face.

1254
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 7: So yeah, you know, I mean, and then you know

1255
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 7: he came and they brought him in run. Yeah.

1256
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 5: By the way, like I don't know what the roots

1257
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 5: are exactly up to recording artists wise, if it was

1258
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 5: me as a music curator, now, deaf jam is the

1259
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 5: perfect place, man.

1260
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: Well guess what.

1261
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 3: We you know, you know the thing where like I

1262
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 3: don't know the movie or the the sitcom example of

1263
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 3: like when you think you're you're like that's your last

1264
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 3: statement and you like burn the house down, or like

1265
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 3: you're the father, like and I'm leaving the family and

1266
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 3: you leave and then you come back because you forgot

1267
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 3: your keys.

1268
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: Uh.

1269
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 3: We just got reminded by deaf Jam. Oh by the way,

1270
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 3: I remember what we said, but you guys actually do.

1271
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 3: Oh it's one more record.

1272
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 4: So it's like, I think this.

1273
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 5: Is a great thing because because I think that I

1274
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 5: I know that he loves you. I know that he

1275
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 5: loves the roots and understands it. And it's also possible

1276
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 5: that he might make a suggestion or two that you

1277
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 5: might like write about try this to try that, right,

1278
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 5: I think it's that to.

1279
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 3: Me, literally all the signings I feel like are the

1280
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 3: Rooge's grandchildren.

1281
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: So yes, all right, oh they are.

1282
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 5: That's what I'm trying to say. That's exactly what I'm

1283
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 5: trying to say. Right, that one to me, you know,

1284
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 5: as someone you didn't ask, right, that's.

1285
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: That works. I got no man, I know you.

1286
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 8: I just want to say this, man, you played a

1287
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 8: very and I'm so happy we're having a chance to

1288
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 8: had this conversation. Uh, you played a part in my

1289
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 8: career that I'm sure you have no idea he did it.

1290
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,959
Speaker 7: But this is back in like two thousand and seven.

1291
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 8: You had a group on your on def Jam Player

1292
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 8: Circle that they were through DTP.

1293
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 7: And so my man did not poor. He hit me

1294
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 7: to do some records.

1295
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 8: He was like, yo, man, I'm burnout. I need just

1296
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 8: some look ideas whatever. And I was like, all right, cool, whatever.

1297
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 8: So I just referenced a couple who got this for

1298
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 8: him and send them off. And I ain't think that

1299
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 8: knows of it. And so the song that I did

1300
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 8: it was a song called paper Chaser, and I just

1301
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 8: sang it as a reference and so the.

1302
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 7: Joint ended up.

1303
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 8: I didn't find out until like later that the song

1304
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 8: actually made the record, and so I ran into Titty

1305
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 8: and Dollar. We was at BT boards and O seven

1306
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 8: and uh Me and Dalla was talking.

1307
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 7: He was like, oh my god. I was like, gonna

1308
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 7: find tape.

1309
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 4: Man.

1310
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 7: He was like, oh yo, what's up? And I'm like,

1311
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 7: what the hell? And he said, man, the thing with

1312
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 7: that record?

1313
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 8: He said, we sent it in and he said we

1314
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 8: was thinking about like getting ACN on it because Akon

1315
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 8: was going up at that time.

1316
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 7: He was like, we was thinking about getting like a

1317
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 7: kN or somebody went on it, he said.

1318
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: But l A.

1319
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 8: Reid was like, Yo, who's the dude the singing on it?

1320
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 8: I like him just it sounds good like that. Just

1321
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,600
Speaker 8: keep it, you know what I'm saying. And I just

1322
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 8: want to.

1323
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 7: Say thank you.

1324
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 8: Really that really put uh you really gave me just

1325
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 8: a lot of confidence and believe I'm like, yo, this dude.

1326
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 7: I was like, Yo, that's just thank you. Thank you

1327
01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 7: so much for that.

1328
01:08:58,800 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 5: Man.

1329
01:08:58,960 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 7: That really meant a lot.

1330
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 4: Thank you. That's great. I'm so happy to hear that.

1331
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 4: We thank you, guys, thank you, thank you.

1332
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 8: I appreciate this on behalf of every quick Thank you

1333
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:11,679
Speaker 8: for putting out splack of belly by pressure.

1334
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1335
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 5: By the way, mir you are like you like you're

1336
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 5: the dopest dude in this business. Man like just that's

1337
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,799
Speaker 5: I just I really love and appreciate you. Man like you.

1338
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 5: You just Yeah, you make me proud to be a

1339
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 5: part of this thing.

1340
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 1: Well.

1341
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 3: I think represent us well. And I appreciate you for

1342
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 3: not not dropping me on my birthday.

1343
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 1: I'll never forget, I think.

1344
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 5: By the way, I don't think that's the truth, but

1345
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 5: I'm gonna let you have it.

1346
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 6: I was trying to get him a finished that.

1347
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: What that was.

1348
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 4: I don't even know how you do that.

1349
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: I called you on my birthday.

1350
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 4: I remember that.

1351
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: I remember that.

1352
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 3: But anyway, half of Bill and Sugar, Steve, sorry, Steve

1353
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: Week once again hogged all your questions.

1354
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 2: I've been reading my a recent episode of Black Beat

1355
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 2: Magazine the whole time.

1356
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, you tap, you tapped out on your show, Sugar,

1357
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 5: you tapped out on me.

1358
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 4: But it's all good, all right.

1359
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 3: On the Apple Light, Ya and fant Ticcolo in the

1360
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 3: Great La Reed. This iss Love Supreme and We'll see

1361
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 3: you on the next go round.

1362
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: West.

1363
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 3: Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts,

1364
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 3: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

1365
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.