Speaker 1: This he's hanging with the Talking Cowboys break streaming live
Speaker 1: on Dallas Cowboys dot com and the official Dallas Cowboys app. Well.
Speaker 1: Breaking news coming out of the Star in Frisco. Here
Speaker 1: today on a Thursday, Rob Phillips joined by Mickey Spagnola,
Speaker 1: David Hellman, Nick Eatman, Kick Garrison producing, We've got a
Speaker 1: new offensive coordinator here with your Dallas Cowboys. I don't
Speaker 1: know if this is a huge shock, but it is
Speaker 1: now official. Kellen Moore, the new OC for your Dallas Cowboys,
Speaker 1: and John kitten of the new quarterbacks coach. Jerry almost
Speaker 1: tipped his hand last night on the fan, just almost
Speaker 1: almost or just did kind of did. Yeah, he stopped
Speaker 1: himself and said, Jason will probably be sending this out
Speaker 1: pretty soon, very quickly. We got a nit definition of
Speaker 1: soon then, didn't we? Yeah, seriously, I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: surprised in the sense that I thought this would happen
Speaker 1: Monday or Tuesday after the Super Bowl. M me too.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe the firmness Jerry Jones literally last night said
Speaker 1: to do it, said I'm gonna I'm gonna let I'm
Speaker 1: gonna let Jason make an announcement here soon. But I
Speaker 1: won't be surprised if if you know, Kellen Moore is
Speaker 1: heavily involved in making the play calls on the field
Speaker 1: next year or ultimately he has the full responsibility. Like
Speaker 1: that's what he said. Let he's gonna let Jason do it.
Speaker 1: So he's gonna let Jason make the announcement except not
Speaker 1: really really, And he didn't want to take away from
Speaker 1: the super Bowl except not really, except he always does right,
Speaker 1: Anythony Davis already did that in the NBA. Right, I
Speaker 1: gotta trumped him on Monday. But hey, it's this is
Speaker 1: big news regardless, Nick, Yeah, it is big news. And
Speaker 1: you know there's a big question out there about you
Speaker 1: know what, what's gonna be different? What's different? Because because
Speaker 1: Lenahan and Kellen Moore were always connected together, But you
Speaker 1: know what's he going to be able to do it
Speaker 1: to call these plays that are different? And hopefully it's
Speaker 1: get Dak Prescott more involved as a runner in my opinion,
Speaker 1: to be able to do more things that he's good at.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm hoping we'll see at a Calmore. Now,
Speaker 1: have you guys ever been in a bowling class in college?
Speaker 1: He almost failed it. Yeah, Sword of God, because what
Speaker 1: probably happened is you're supposed to go out there and
Speaker 1: throw out like a forty four to start it off,
Speaker 1: and then from the rest on it's like, well, you
Speaker 1: can only get better from there, and that's how you're graded.
Speaker 1: Went out seven points in the Pro Bowl. You know,
Speaker 1: no one's expected much. You can only get better from that.
Speaker 1: But I do like the flee flicker he called, you
Speaker 1: do like your fleeflickers. I can't. How about the snap
Speaker 1: to to Zeke? Yeah, all that, I can't. I can't
Speaker 1: grade a guy on a game where running backs were
Speaker 1: rushing the passer A lot of people did know people
Speaker 1: did one hundred and less than one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: yards and seven points in a game designed to score
Speaker 1: points and not be real football is not good, But
Speaker 1: it's so far. When he got his quarterback and they
Speaker 1: went down to school, damn right, they did Russell Wilson's fault.
Speaker 1: That's Mitch Rubisky out of here, miss Rubisky. That it's interesting,
Speaker 1: I mean to your question like I don't know, I
Speaker 1: like I've heard you know. Travis Frederick had a glowing
Speaker 1: endorsement of his football IQ. His coaches at Boise State
Speaker 1: have been quoted recently Dak Prescott is obviously his biggest fan,
Speaker 1: going all the way back to twenty sixteen. But how
Speaker 1: can you sit here and know for sure one way
Speaker 1: or the other if it's going to look different. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think it would be disingenuous to to just rave
Speaker 1: that it's going to be this vast departure. I don't
Speaker 1: expect it to be a huge departure. I think this
Speaker 1: hire makes a lot of sense for the type of
Speaker 1: things that Jason Garrett likes to do. I think he
Speaker 1: wants familiarity. I think he wants a guy that he
Speaker 1: knows well and can work with. Doesn't mean Kellen Moore
Speaker 1: won't be able to have his own ideas, But you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think Jason Garrett wants to go out and
Speaker 1: hire some guy he's never met to be in charge
Speaker 1: of his offense, especially if he's got one year left
Speaker 1: on his contract. So I don't know, it's curious. I
Speaker 1: don't know what to expect, but I'm willing to have
Speaker 1: an open mind that Kellen Moore can bring some new
Speaker 1: st off at the table. For sure. I think we
Speaker 1: have to see how it pans out. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: one thing to have a title. It's another thing to
Speaker 1: see how much authority you have. And you know, he's
Speaker 1: not gonna sit in his office just you know, and
Speaker 1: be an independent contractor and start, you know, drawing up
Speaker 1: some extravagant things in the offense. Jason Garrett's going to
Speaker 1: be heavily involved in the game planning during the week
Speaker 1: and putting the scheme together. Now, Kellen may call the plays,
Speaker 1: but remember Jason has a headset on, just like he
Speaker 1: had a headset on when Lenahan was here. And you
Speaker 1: can talk on the headset to each other. So it's
Speaker 1: not like this guy's gonna have Kellen's gonna just have
Speaker 1: free rein to do whatever nilly willie he wants to do.
Speaker 1: You know, Jason still can trump him on a play
Speaker 1: call or this is what we're gonna do. We scripted
Speaker 1: this stuff, pick that play from that situation to call now.
Speaker 1: And so I still think he'll have a heavy hand
Speaker 1: in in developing what the game plan he is on
Speaker 1: for Sundays. Yeah, and I think, well, Jason loves to
Speaker 1: use the word collaborative. Jerry used it last night too.
Speaker 1: I think we've heard way too much talk about Doug Nussmeyer,
Speaker 1: John Kittner. You know, it kind of gets buried under
Speaker 1: the Kella Moore news, but he's officially on the staff
Speaker 1: as the quarterbacks coach. Yep, Jerry Jones. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say surprising, but I thought it was noteworthy how
Speaker 1: often Jerry Jones brought up Mark Colombo as a guy
Speaker 1: whose ideas he's interested in. MY main point being is
Speaker 1: I think mixed right. I think there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of people involved in this. I think it's kind
Speaker 1: of you know, Kelly Moore might ultimately call the plays,
Speaker 1: he's the offensive coordinator. I think there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of voices involved in putting the plan together. Jerry
Speaker 1: spoke to that yesterday on the fan. He called it
Speaker 1: a collaborative effort, and he said he wants these young coaches.
Speaker 1: I think he said he wants some you know, figuratively
Speaker 1: step in front of the train, brings some new ideas
Speaker 1: to the table, try to figure out ways to get
Speaker 1: this offense better than it was last year. And I
Speaker 1: know Mickey and I discussed this on Talking Cowboys. I
Speaker 1: know them the break you guys have too. I mean,
Speaker 1: no question the offense improved, not coincidentally with Amari Cooper,
Speaker 1: uh there down the stretch. But there's still growth, room
Speaker 1: for growth. There a lot of room for growth there.
Speaker 1: When you look at the offenses that made it to
Speaker 1: the Final four this season in the AFC, in the NFC,
Speaker 1: they were more prolific over the course of the entire
Speaker 1: season than this Dallas offense, no question about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then and then the Saints scored twenty three points.
Speaker 1: I don't really care about that. I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: entire macro. But the Rams defense was was good, and
Speaker 1: I don't know what took them so long to kind
Speaker 1: of get there, But I mean their defense is like
Speaker 1: finally turned you know, all the all the guys they
Speaker 1: had brought in and all the money they had paid
Speaker 1: for they finally played like it there in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: you know, and merely shut down. And we saw the Saints.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Saints guy shot down by a cowboy
Speaker 1: defense as well. So that's that happens. But you're right, Rob,
Speaker 1: the red zones got to get better. I gotta get
Speaker 1: more consistent there, and I you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think they need help at tight end. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think we everyone thinks that that they need to get
Speaker 1: help at tight end. But I think the tight end
Speaker 1: will help with the red zone if you can get
Speaker 1: a real um blocking tight end who can who can catch? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or how about just a tight end who's played ten
Speaker 1: games in the NFL. Yeah, that would help too. And
Speaker 1: so now you've got he's the second round pick actually
Speaker 1: played right, You played with three tight ends after Swain
Speaker 1: got hurt that had never played in the end. But
Speaker 1: but that's there. That's that's another thing that's got to
Speaker 1: change here in my opinion. You know, drop the arrogance.
Speaker 1: I mean, drop drop the like we do what we
Speaker 1: do and we're gonna put in Just because you put
Speaker 1: te next to the guy's name doesn't mean they are
Speaker 1: real tight ends. And and and they they they went
Speaker 1: into last year thinking we don't need a number one receiver,
Speaker 1: watch this, we don't really need we can replace Witten
Speaker 1: with this, And that's not true. Now now they scrambled
Speaker 1: halfway through the year to get a first round pick receiver.
Speaker 1: And I think they didn't need to get it. I mean,
Speaker 1: just quit acting like you got it all figured out, like, well,
Speaker 1: that's that's what they do. But they, well, to your
Speaker 1: to their credit, they figured out halfway through. We got
Speaker 1: to do something with a Dak even spoke to this
Speaker 1: on the fan today. We'll get to a cut from
Speaker 1: him about Kellen later, but uh, he said, I wasn't
Speaker 1: comfortable early in the season because we had it wasn't
Speaker 1: like guys weren't trying to get open or getting open,
Speaker 1: but we were shifting guys in any team receivers either
Speaker 1: I needed. Basically, he said, I needed consistency with the rotation.
Speaker 1: And that's what they figured out. Um, and they should
Speaker 1: have played more in preseason because this wasn't an established team.
Speaker 1: Played the first team offense needed to play and and
Speaker 1: they just assume, Okay, now this season opener and we're
Speaker 1: gonna turn it on, and we got everything figured out
Speaker 1: and score eight points. That goes. I mean, that's a
Speaker 1: whole other conversation. I mean, you know, if you want
Speaker 1: to go all the way back to August, I mean,
Speaker 1: three fifths of the offensive line is missing, Travis Fredericks
Speaker 1: being diagnosed with autoimmune diseases, Like, I mean, there were
Speaker 1: some factors there other than think, well we're good, isn't
Speaker 1: it the rams? And I don't know this because I'm
Speaker 1: kind of on the fence when it comes to the
Speaker 1: preseason stuff. But winning the Rams, the team that did
Speaker 1: played absolutely nobody. They sat a lot of guys and
Speaker 1: then start off well. So I mean, I think there's
Speaker 1: cases for both, but well, no, what I was gonna
Speaker 1: say to your point is like, Okay, they deserve credit
Speaker 1: for recognizing the problem with Amari Cooper. They also deserved
Speaker 1: plenty of blame for feeling okay that that was a
Speaker 1: good idea. The tight end thing, I'm not as willing
Speaker 1: to kill them for, Like we talked about this on
Speaker 1: the break the other day, like it kind of gets
Speaker 1: swept under the rug, like Jason Witten did them no favors, Yeah,
Speaker 1: no favors whatsoever. I mean, you wake up on Friday
Speaker 1: morning and find out you might not have your starting
Speaker 1: tight end Friday morning of the NFL Draft, Like that's
Speaker 1: when they've knew for sure that they weren't going to
Speaker 1: have them. Like that's crappy timing. So I don't want
Speaker 1: to kill them for being arrogant there. I think they
Speaker 1: kind of they probably got caught a little flat footed
Speaker 1: and just in hindsight, you know, Philadelphia got them by
Speaker 1: one pick. But do you would you have wanted them
Speaker 1: to take Goddard. No, no, and it's a gigantic myth.
Speaker 1: I think they were always interested in Connor Williams. Maybe
Speaker 1: Philly was being preemptive because they thought the Cowboys might
Speaker 1: draft Alice Goddard. But we'll go fire up the audio
Speaker 1: of the phone calls. They were but okay, But now
Speaker 1: after what you've seen and in one year and they're
Speaker 1: both about the same, they kind of I'm well, I
Speaker 1: would say Goddard got better as the year went on
Speaker 1: and Connor kind of had a little up and down.
Speaker 1: Now after everything that's happened, and you really haven't fixed
Speaker 1: tight end and you got to a filo in the mix.
Speaker 1: I think you can address it this year though, because
Speaker 1: it just it's early. But looking at the draft, it's
Speaker 1: pretty rich and tight ends. I mean, you could go
Speaker 1: find one and is he gonna come in here and
Speaker 1: be able to block when you go two tight ends?
Speaker 1: Because that was their problem. They stuck with at two
Speaker 1: tight end, think because that's what we do. But the
Speaker 1: two tight ends couldn't block. And let's not kid ourselves.
Speaker 1: At the end of Witton's career, he wasn't exactly a
Speaker 1: block of granite out there blocking. I'm very comfortable having
Speaker 1: a guy who can start at left guard or theoretically
Speaker 1: maybe help me address my tackle problems. Yeah, that's another conversation,
Speaker 1: which to your point, that's the biggest thing for me
Speaker 1: with Kellen Moore, and that's what we're here to talk
Speaker 1: about in the first place. Is Yeah, I agree with you,
Speaker 1: Like I think one of this team's biggest problems. You
Speaker 1: can call it confidence, you can call it arrogance, like
Speaker 1: Jason Garrett's whole deal is like, if we do what
Speaker 1: we do to the best of our abilities, we can
Speaker 1: beat anybody. And what just wasn't true a lot of
Speaker 1: the times last year. It hasn't been true from a
Speaker 1: personnel standpoint exactly. Yeah, Well, but if you don't have
Speaker 1: the personnel to line up and win, you got a
Speaker 1: scheme ways to do it Otherwise I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: it drove me crazy, and I know Tavon Austin was
Speaker 1: hurt for a lot of the year, but again, you
Speaker 1: go back, go away. I hate to compare him to
Speaker 1: the Rams because the Rams are the best offense in football,
Speaker 1: but they don't do anything that that's the complex. They
Speaker 1: make it look complex and then they run simple looks
Speaker 1: out of complex looking schemes. I mean, you know, I've
Speaker 1: said it ten million times. I'm sorry, motioning receivers, orbit
Speaker 1: motions into the backfield, moving your running backs. I just
Speaker 1: I would like to see more of that, because this
Speaker 1: big boy attitude of our best will beat your best.
Speaker 1: When it works, it's awesome, but it doesn't work a
Speaker 1: lot of the times and it gets you beat And
Speaker 1: I hope Kellen Moore can can change some of that.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you look at that, that mentality,
Speaker 1: you know that the quarterback obviously matters there because when
Speaker 1: you think back to twenty fourteen, you know they were
Speaker 1: doing that. They were running over people with de Marco
Speaker 1: Murray and Romo was the quarterback and they were rushed
Speaker 1: for eighteen hundred yards and then fifteen Romo gets hurt
Speaker 1: and Kellen Moore was one of the quarterbacks and Weedon
Speaker 1: and Castle and those guys, and they were the worst
Speaker 1: third and one team in the league because they couldn't
Speaker 1: really knock people off the ball. So and then they
Speaker 1: got back in sixteen and they were doing it again.
Speaker 1: So you know, having quarterback presidents obviously helps with that
Speaker 1: offensive line. And so you know that I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not saying anything that no one doesn't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: Dak's got to play well for the offense to do well,
Speaker 1: and he needs also not get sacked fifty six times.
Speaker 1: You want to hear a cut from Dak Prescott today, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear him where we got kent This
Speaker 1: is on the fan Earlier, Dak Prescott asked about Kellen
Speaker 1: Moore before the announcement was made. I mean, he's honestly
Speaker 1: one of these young genius phenomens in the game and
Speaker 1: just what he knows the way obviously he knows the
Speaker 1: football that we've been playing and kind of where the
Speaker 1: game's been going, the wall on the ball or whatever
Speaker 1: it is. That the style of player you want to
Speaker 1: call it. But he's specially, he's specially he knows a
Speaker 1: lot about the game. Just the way he sees the game.
Speaker 1: Where he's ahead of the game. He can bring a
Speaker 1: lot to us, a lot of creativity, uh, something we need.
Speaker 1: And by the way, that's not lip service either. Dak's
Speaker 1: been saying that for three years that Kellen has called
Speaker 1: him a genius before. I think he really he trusts
Speaker 1: him and he appreciates the help Kellen gave him as
Speaker 1: a rookie. When Kellen lost his job to injury as
Speaker 1: the backup, and then ultimately Dak took over as the starter.
Speaker 1: There's a trust factor there, there's no question in trying
Speaker 1: to figure out a solution once they parted ways with
Speaker 1: Scott Linahan. I'm sure Dax was asked, you know how,
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? And I'm sure he's
Speaker 1: comfortable with it, which and that goes back to my point.
Speaker 1: You're right, it's not lip service. Dak loves Kellen Moore
Speaker 1: and I mentioned it earlier. You can go find the
Speaker 1: audio on Twitter. Travis Frederick said some really glowing stuff
Speaker 1: about Kellen in a radio interview a week or so ago,
Speaker 1: of really insightful stuff. But so is it lip service? No,
Speaker 1: because I think they believe it, But like I haven't
Speaker 1: seen it, you know what I mean? Sure, And that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean he can't do it. It It doesn't mean he's
Speaker 1: not a phenom. But I feel weird sitting here talking
Speaker 1: up you know, his credentials, Like I have no idea.
Speaker 1: We talked about that all year long. Is you know,
Speaker 1: people were mad at Kellen because he's inexperienced, He's too
Speaker 1: young to be Dak's quarterbacks coach. I'm sitting here like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what do we have? We have the
Speaker 1: Pro Bowl, we have the Pro Bowl and like footage
Speaker 1: of him sitting on the sideline with Dak, Like that's
Speaker 1: really all we've got to go on. True, and that
Speaker 1: is fair because Wade Wilson was the quarterbacks coach for
Speaker 1: what fifteen years, and you can't really say that you
Speaker 1: ever saw much there. I mean, yeah, he had guys
Speaker 1: go to the Pro Bowl? Yeah, Romo did did well.
Speaker 1: Was it because of Wade Wilson? He also had Chad
Speaker 1: Hutchinson and Quincy Carter and Drew Hinson and sometimes that
Speaker 1: didn't work either. So what does the court? It's hard
Speaker 1: to really see what a quarterback coach is doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: until they get into him. It's more of a more
Speaker 1: until they get a really good quarterback. Well, I've been
Speaker 1: I've been going back and forth with people on people
Speaker 1: with people on Twitter for two weeks because I think
Speaker 1: it's it's it's just an interesting thought. Kellen Moore is
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks coach of it. He's a young, young coach
Speaker 1: with a young quarterback for the Cowboys. Up and down
Speaker 1: results a lot of people don't like him. A lot
Speaker 1: of people did not want him to get this job
Speaker 1: Mike Kafka as the quarterbacks coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.
Speaker 1: People would be doing backflips if he had been hired
Speaker 1: to be the offensive coordinator here because his quarterback just
Speaker 1: through for fifty touchdowns and redefined what a quarterback is
Speaker 1: capable of. They have the exact same resume where they
Speaker 1: came out at the same time, they played the same
Speaker 1: number of years in the NFL and accomplished the same amount.
Speaker 1: They've been coaching in the NFL for the same amount
Speaker 1: of time, and who coordinated that Kansas City offense well
Speaker 1: this year was being the enemy Andy Reid too. Here's
Speaker 1: the difference the head coach. Where did Kellen Moore start
Speaker 1: his career and who'd he play for? Yeah, Scott Lindhand,
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. He's tied to Scott lind Hand.
Speaker 1: And people that don't like Scott lind Hand and what
Speaker 1: he did in this offense, they think with Kellen coming in,
Speaker 1: it's going to be the same thing. And I'm with
Speaker 1: you guys on the fact that it's Jason Garrett's offense
Speaker 1: and it's been his offense since two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: So I have a hard time believe, like Mickey calls
Speaker 1: at Star Wars, you know, some of what we've seen
Speaker 1: throughout the league college offenses, some of those concepts becoming
Speaker 1: more prevalent. I don't see that. I think the core
Speaker 1: of this thing is going to stay the same. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that Kellen Moore can't bring something to
Speaker 1: the table. And he's a clone of Scott Linehan. Now.
Speaker 1: I just hope that they realized that, you know, gone
Speaker 1: of the days or not gone. But but this isn't
Speaker 1: your franchise stand in the pocket Troy Aikman, Tony Romol
Speaker 1: type of quarterback. This is a guy that needs to
Speaker 1: be on the move a little bit. I think it's
Speaker 1: I think the stats speak for themselves. I don't mean
Speaker 1: he has to run twenty five times a game, but
Speaker 1: he needs to run a little bit because that is
Speaker 1: what he's good at. And you have two runners that
Speaker 1: can run like that. They need to I think they
Speaker 1: need to need to think about that a little bit more.
Speaker 1: And I one thing that gives me confidence is Kellen
Speaker 1: Moore is not your prototypical quarterback. And I don't you know,
Speaker 1: college success clearly doesn't translate to the NFL. But he
Speaker 1: was very, very good in college despite being much smaller
Speaker 1: than average and not a runner, but a mobile ish quarterback.
Speaker 1: He could use his feet. So I'm encouraged to think
Speaker 1: that he knows how to incorporate those types of things
Speaker 1: into calling an offense for Dak. I don't think he's
Speaker 1: going to ask him to play like Troy Aikman, because
Speaker 1: he wasn't that way when he was in college. Again
Speaker 1: and go, you know, I've mentioned five or six things
Speaker 1: you can see on the internet. Another one, you know,
Speaker 1: people pulled up his clip with John Gruden in the
Speaker 1: pre draft process when he came out, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's not going to show you what he's gonna
Speaker 1: be like as an offensive coordinator, but if you want
Speaker 1: to get a look into what he's like as a
Speaker 1: football mind, it's really interesting. You can find it on
Speaker 1: YouTube ord Twitter and just him shooting the breeze with
Speaker 1: John Gruden about football for three or four minutes. People
Speaker 1: saw that and they kind of they didn't know about it,
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh no, maybe this guy actually
Speaker 1: knows what he's gonna be not stupid. He's definitely not dumb.
Speaker 1: Like he knows more about quarterback than anybody listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast. So, like I said, I just you know,
Speaker 1: nobody likes it when you ride the fence. But like
Speaker 1: I think this could be a really great higher I
Speaker 1: don't feel confident saying it definitely will be, but I'm alright,
Speaker 1: I'm alright with it. I'm interested to see how he does.
Speaker 1: We you and I talked about something a minute ago
Speaker 1: pre show. It's kind of interesting, Okay, It's the engine
Speaker 1: of this thing is Ezekiel Elliott. Right. It's a run
Speaker 1: first offense. It always has been, and that's not gonna change.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's gonna be a significant part of this thing.
Speaker 1: But the Rams are an example of a team that
Speaker 1: has an elite running back that are as versatile and
Speaker 1: nimble as you can ask. So there are ways to
Speaker 1: still have Zeke as a primary piece of this thing
Speaker 1: and maybe be a little more diverse in what you do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dak really killed me this morning. He went on he
Speaker 1: was in he's in Atlanta, you know, radio row and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and this is what he said on
Speaker 1: the radio today. They asked him about about that, you know,
Speaker 1: more pre snap motion more misdirection. Don't be so predictable,
Speaker 1: he said. It's fair for fans to have those arguments.
Speaker 1: He's like, I get that. You know the offense I
Speaker 1: came from, the offense Zeke came from. We do some
Speaker 1: of that the same coaches. You know. Dak was under
Speaker 1: Dan Mullin, Zeke was under urban Meyer. They worked together.
Speaker 1: He said, you look around and see the pieces and
Speaker 1: the team we have. When you have a guy like
Speaker 1: Zeke and you've got a running back like that, you've
Speaker 1: got to give him the ball. You gotta make sure
Speaker 1: you dominate time of possession and do that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: It takes away sometimes from the movement and all this
Speaker 1: other stuff that people are talking about, but it's about
Speaker 1: being who we are, which that last sentence, like Jason
Speaker 1: Garret texited to him, I'm sure. So I'm positive. I'm positive.
Speaker 1: So what did they do in twenty sixteen? I think, well,
Speaker 1: and that's I think they have not have motion that
Speaker 1: they Dak run the ball more they did this past year.
Speaker 1: I think. So it's interesting because I would argue that
Speaker 1: they did, like Lucky Whitehead was a fixture in that offense.
Speaker 1: Just again, it sounds stupid to say, but he was
Speaker 1: a constant threat moving across that formation. When he got
Speaker 1: the ball, he averaged ten yards per carry. And I
Speaker 1: don't have the stats in front of me, but I
Speaker 1: would venture a guest that he did that a dozen
Speaker 1: or so times per game. So who was Lucky Whitehead
Speaker 1: this year? Nobody? Nobody? Yeah, Jordan lew because it was personnel. Right,
Speaker 1: you didn't have that guy. Once you lose Tavon Austin,
Speaker 1: you can't do that so easily. He's not going to
Speaker 1: cause anybody a problems running the football at his size, right,
Speaker 1: Lucky Whitehead was a little bit different. I can't literally
Speaker 1: anyone else do it well? Whom? So just have something
Speaker 1: you want? Noah running thou Do you remember the guy?
Speaker 1: Do you remember who kept doing it over and over
Speaker 1: for the Rams? Remember that guy? What's his name? Yeah? Exactly,
Speaker 1: I don't remember, but I just know it was somebody.
Speaker 1: I think Cooks was the one that wound up, which
Speaker 1: Brandon Cooks like Reynolds to everything very fast. But and
Speaker 1: Reynolds got some deep speed by the way, No he does.
Speaker 1: You're not wrong if you're on that. They had that
Speaker 1: guy and they tried it, so it didn't work. Very well. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they tried with Jordan Lewis. I mean,
Speaker 1: why did they beat the Cowboys. Let's face it, the
Speaker 1: seventy three yards. This isn't about the Rams game. No,
Speaker 1: I know, I'm not saying, but that's why they didn't
Speaker 1: go to the next round. Oh sure, because if they
Speaker 1: had won that game, then everybody would have been real happy.
Speaker 1: They Oh yeah, they're in the NFC title game, right,
Speaker 1: But they also they also ran for two seventy three
Speaker 1: because they got the opportunity to run that much because
Speaker 1: the offense wasn't doing well. I mean, the offense did
Speaker 1: not help him in that game. And I think everyone
Speaker 1: knows the offensive. If the defense plays exactly like it
Speaker 1: plays next year, and if the offense improves, this will
Speaker 1: be a better team. Doesn't mean they'll have a better record,
Speaker 1: because they sound like they have a tougher schedule paper
Speaker 1: for sure, Yeah, I will see it's it looks it
Speaker 1: looks terrifying right now. There were four games that went
Speaker 1: down to a field goal they made, they won two,
Speaker 1: they lost two. I mean, if you if you win
Speaker 1: three out of four and then you know you're sitting
Speaker 1: at a completely different record and weren't they like eight
Speaker 1: and two in games decided by a touchdown or less something? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was ridiculous they did. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that whole streak down the stretch, it was all
Speaker 1: one possession games. I only wiped out one team, right, right,
Speaker 1: And they only got wiped out really once in Napolis,
Speaker 1: right oh yeah, although Tennessee wasn't close. It was touchdowns.
Speaker 1: I know, I just disagreed with you, Mick, but like
Speaker 1: in overall, I tend to lean your way because that's
Speaker 1: you know, and I think a change was needed. We
Speaker 1: talked about that the offense was trending down the last
Speaker 1: two years. Twenty sixteen with a lot of the same guys,
Speaker 1: they were top five with Scotland a hand in charge
Speaker 1: of the sting, and I don't and I think, honestly,
Speaker 1: the big difference was they had the personnel to bully
Speaker 1: people the way they went. They had a dominant offensive
Speaker 1: line was much better. That's probably the best way they
Speaker 1: got to line this decade much better. Fourteen. Could make
Speaker 1: an argument there maybe last two years, but um, they
Speaker 1: had much better personnel. The offensive line was much better.
Speaker 1: The receivers played a lot better. But I don't think
Speaker 1: they're that far away from being able to do those
Speaker 1: types of things. We'll see, and I mean Kellen Moore
Speaker 1: is going to play a huge part in that, but
Speaker 1: well he better get Travis Frederick healthy and ready to go.
Speaker 1: So nice. Just to clarify, you're kind of hinting at it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you feel like this is more about personnel
Speaker 1: for this team going forward next season to improve more
Speaker 1: so than trying to change things. Well, what was the
Speaker 1: what was the difference between three and five and seven
Speaker 1: and one? Amari Cooper? Thank you? That's the only reason
Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator didn't change? Did he raine? Four? Well? Offense?
Speaker 1: But it was three and five at the halfway? I know,
Speaker 1: but Cooper lost. Yeah, well, okay, I know, I'm just
Speaker 1: saying he and he. I can't fault them for going
Speaker 1: seven and one, but they still were only scoring twenty
Speaker 1: one points per game in that time period, Like, they
Speaker 1: went from twenty pre Cooper seven games to about twenty
Speaker 1: two in the last eleven games counting playoffs with Cooper
Speaker 1: and he had a goose egg in Indianapolis. Still bad,
Speaker 1: but that But one of the answers to that question
Speaker 1: is also on defense too, because they're their best defensive
Speaker 1: player started to play. I mean he got to really emerge.
Speaker 1: I mean I think when I think vander Esh thing
Speaker 1: really took off. Him and Jalen both just played together.
Speaker 1: And I thought that the defense was better in that
Speaker 1: stretch too. Amari for sure can't forget that part. But
Speaker 1: I thought the defense was better in that stretch and
Speaker 1: Vanderesh was taking it to another level. It kind of
Speaker 1: it kind of goes back to that point, is like
Speaker 1: people want new, people want different. Jason Garrett's not gonna
Speaker 1: do that anyway. But like, don't I don't think you
Speaker 1: need it. I don't. I don't think you need to
Speaker 1: do a ton to make this thing a lot better.
Speaker 1: You need you need some new ideas. I think you
Speaker 1: need to be a little bit less predictable. You could
Speaker 1: stand to upgrade your personnel in a couple of spots.
Speaker 1: But like I just I don't think I buy that
Speaker 1: you need this drastic overhaul to make this offense more functional.
Speaker 1: So and that was Frederick at center. That would be nice.
Speaker 1: You need. You need Zach Martin playing on two good knees,
Speaker 1: not one, Although I will say like that is part
Speaker 1: of every single football season in the world. I understand like,
Speaker 1: and then every team in the league game sitting here
Speaker 1: left guard. Uh, you got your Pro Bowl left tackle
Speaker 1: playing with a knee brace on his elbow. I mean
Speaker 1: that offensive line wasn't what everybody's used to seeing it,
Speaker 1: and it showed which it brought back diminishing returns. To
Speaker 1: get another running back in here, you can't get another
Speaker 1: running back in here. Real with the second round. You
Speaker 1: can't sit here in February. You can't sit here in
Speaker 1: February and say like, well they just be better though,
Speaker 1: because I mean I've I have resigned myself. I love
Speaker 1: Tyrant Smith to death. He's going to be dealing with
Speaker 1: these problems for the rest of his career more likely
Speaker 1: than not. Uh, Travis Frederick, all thing it sounds really positive.
Speaker 1: Can't bank on that until I see it. Um can
Speaker 1: get you a better backup offensive tackle, maybe, but you
Speaker 1: did it at at linebacker, right. My point, backed up
Speaker 1: your your ace card attonbacker, So back up your ace
Speaker 1: card on the offensive line. You're never is the backup. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe you're never. You're never going to be perfectly healthy,
Speaker 1: and in those situations you need scheme to overcome those things.
Speaker 1: And that's what I mean that is why this is important.
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't need to be a drastic departure,
Speaker 1: but if you're not equipped to line up and say
Speaker 1: our eleven are better than you're eleven, then there's got
Speaker 1: to be some other way you can overcome that. The
Speaker 1: Pats are probably the best example of any team in
Speaker 1: the league. No do that, the Pats. I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: The Pats are in the super Bowl with like a
Speaker 1: bunch of scraps at offensive line. It's unbelievable, and Brady
Speaker 1: was not. I mean, Mickey talked about it on our show.
Speaker 1: Was a picture of him holding up his jersey after
Speaker 1: the game with I mean, just the Patties can be.
Speaker 1: The Pats spent a first round ross st Pat's been
Speaker 1: a first round pick on a guard who didn't play
Speaker 1: a snap this season, and they didn't stop them. They're
Speaker 1: the outlier, no question about it, I know. But the
Speaker 1: Cowboys trying to take steps to improve things in house.
Speaker 1: Kellen Moore the new OC and they get to play
Speaker 1: in the AOC East. John Kitten the new quarterbacks coach,
Speaker 1: and address that because he's here. He really it's my
Speaker 1: argument what I bring it up. What's that what's that
Speaker 1: that they got to play in the Oh no I talk?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Kitten, I'm low key really excited about that. Higher.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's a really good movie.
Speaker 1: This it's the guy we've been saying we would like
Speaker 1: to see working with. Like I wasn't thinking about Kittna.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know, back when um Luke McCown
Speaker 1: had a cup of coffee here, I wanted him to
Speaker 1: be on the team just because I was like, can
Speaker 1: we get a guy who's been through the NFL to
Speaker 1: work with Dak for a little while? Know, so what
Speaker 1: else could you possibly want? Then? A guy who's played
Speaker 1: fourteen NFL seasons, He's had two four thousand yard seasons,
Speaker 1: he's played in NFL Europe. He's coached at the high
Speaker 1: school level. So I'm confident he has seen, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the newer things that they're doing at those
Speaker 1: levels of football over the last and he's been doing
Speaker 1: that for six years. So it just happens a great
Speaker 1: high and just haven't been around him for a couple
Speaker 1: of years here. He's a good communicator. Guys listen to him,
Speaker 1: Guys follow him. He's got kind of an IT factory
Speaker 1: I think I think he's got communication skills along with
Speaker 1: his knowledge that will translate well to a coaching role.
Speaker 1: And he's been you know, he's been in a high
Speaker 1: school role for a few years now, Yeah, which may
Speaker 1: be the hardest coaching job. So there. Yeah, well and
Speaker 1: the Sun has been a quarterback too, so he's been
Speaker 1: coaching at home, I you know, for a while too.
Speaker 1: But you know, backup quarterbacks are always coaches. You know,
Speaker 1: when the guy comes off on the field, that what
Speaker 1: you see. While I saw this too, and Garrett did
Speaker 1: it for years with Troy. I mean, you know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're better than the guy at all. It
Speaker 1: just means that you're giving him a different set of eyes.
Speaker 1: And so Kittnah, you know, he's always been able to
Speaker 1: kind of get it and understand his role. And you know,
Speaker 1: cart he took over for Carson Palmer was drafted, he
Speaker 1: was the starter and then he hey, he understood the deal.
Speaker 1: He just kind of gets it. I think I think
Speaker 1: it's an outstanding addition to this staff. I really do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was a tough sell or if
Speaker 1: that was, hey, we got this job for you. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure sound like it. I think he was on
Speaker 1: a trip to the Pro Bowl, like real quick, like,
Speaker 1: oh hey, that was the easy sell. He might to
Speaker 1: come down to the Pro Bowl. He was going to
Speaker 1: be the OC for the San Diego Fleet. Now he's
Speaker 1: the you know, that's a good well I was gonna
Speaker 1: I'm sure high school football coaching sounds incredibly really good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know if they do. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: his last job was at a preparatory school. I think
Speaker 1: it was last year in Yeah, he was hired to
Speaker 1: be hadn't actually so just such a small world. Uh
Speaker 1: you know who plays for the San Diego Fleet? Do
Speaker 1: they play? Gavin Escobar? Way? Like literally two weeks ago,
Speaker 1: somebody asked Escobar about Kitten ap because he's gonna be
Speaker 1: there OC, and Gavin was like, well, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: mean he just he just agreed to be the Cowboys
Speaker 1: quarterbacks coach. This was like three weeks ago. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, like we said at the top of the show,
Speaker 1: this has been a long time coming. Hey we stir
Speaker 1: the pot and big what if he took Gavin to
Speaker 1: come in here and help out it? Tight end joking,
Speaker 1: that's sorry, And that's where we had. Good job, Nick
Speaker 1: they opened February ninth. By the way, yes, that new league.
Speaker 1: I think it's important to mention Gavin Escapar when we say,
Speaker 1: you know what I would drafts tight end in the
Speaker 1: second rounds, right, fix this problem. I'm not gonna bring
Speaker 1: the draft show onto this. But like I'm out, I'm
Speaker 1: out on tight end. Well, I'm just I just was
Speaker 1: saying it's a deep position this year. It's deep, so
Speaker 1: you can quite one in the fourth round. But we
Speaker 1: had a mail back question today Blake Jarwin. They're gonna
Speaker 1: be better than Blake Jarwin with another year of development. No,
Speaker 1: maybe not very very well. May not be very few
Speaker 1: tight ends who aren't drafted in the top fifteen do
Speaker 1: much of anything while they're rookies. Yeah, very few. So
Speaker 1: give me pick fifty eight if anybody cared, what I
Speaker 1: think should be a receiver that can play inside and out.
Speaker 1: If you said you didn't go, if you said you
Speaker 1: didn't go to the super Bowl because you didn't have
Speaker 1: a good tight end, you had other problems. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not why they didn't go super Bowl. That might
Speaker 1: be why the red zone isn't as good though, could
Speaker 1: certainly help. Actually it's been not the red zone, the
Speaker 1: inside the ten yard line zone. That's where they face.
Speaker 1: They were dead last and goal to go. We should
Speaker 1: call that something like maroon zone. I mean, it's really read.
Speaker 1: Last year was the dead zone. How can you be
Speaker 1: How can you be dead last and goal to go
Speaker 1: and have the NFL rushing champion on your team because
Speaker 1: your offensive line couldn't run over Yeah, they don't give
Speaker 1: it to him as much. I don't even buy that,
Speaker 1: Like they didn't trust the offensive line when they got
Speaker 1: down there. I've never seen Zeke get tackled backwards in
Speaker 1: his life. Well, how about fourth and one and a
Speaker 1: half at the thirty five. Well, something changed because in
Speaker 1: sixteen and seventeen they were among the best in the
Speaker 1: league at it. And yeah, I mean I think that's
Speaker 1: a factor as well as Joe Looney. Joe, but yeah,
Speaker 1: Frederick if he was when we would have like a
Speaker 1: center competition every year, like who's gonna start this year?
Speaker 1: I mean just go look at fourth and one and
Speaker 1: a half at the thirty five and to see who
Speaker 1: got blown up to him. Yes, Joe, Joe Looney did
Speaker 1: an amazing job. He did, but not the best center
Speaker 1: in football. There's a reason why he was a backup
Speaker 1: and to next point, then you try to do some
Speaker 1: things differently and sometimes execution was just a factor. Cole
Speaker 1: Beasley drops a touchdown, Noel Brown Dak misconnect on a touchdown.
Speaker 1: Cowboys an't the only team to get, you know, cue down.
Speaker 1: Two of those guys, like the guys who just all right,
Speaker 1: you just got about that one too, the most obscure
Speaker 1: player on the team. No one talked to him. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he talked to anybody in the media.
Speaker 1: Y'all just name interviewed. Y'all just named three players who
Speaker 1: aren't coming off a Pro Bowl trip. I know Elliott Is.
Speaker 1: I know he never got looked at down there, and
Speaker 1: I'll just go to my grave not really knowing why
Speaker 1: can't just show to play where he did get looked
Speaker 1: at and he got stuffed. It was after the Ola
Speaker 1: Wally drop, wasn't it. Now? That was the Rams game. Lord, Well,
Speaker 1: maybe Kellen Moore can fix all that, and maybe John
Speaker 1: Kidney can help you all that as the new quarterbacks coach,
Speaker 1: Kellen Moore new oc checkout Dallas Cowboys dot com for
Speaker 1: them softly there it is almost went with that for
Speaker 1: the headline on the site, but it didn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll change it up next time. Thanks guys for
Speaker 1: joining us. Thanks everybody on the producing stay throughout the offseason.
Speaker 1: Speaking of producing, this has been a production of Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.