1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: The story of Ishi, the last Yahee Indians showing up 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: in Oraville, California, nineteen eleven has got to be one 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: of America's most fascinating stories. This episode is more redemptive 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: in some ways than the first, but ultimately the scales 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: tip toward it being even more tragic. These events took 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: place between September fourth, nineteen eleven and March twenty fifth, 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen, when Hi died, but it wouldn't be into 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, when Ishi's remains were put back into 9 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: the dirt of his homeland that this story really ends. 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: But if you're a bowhunter, the ripples of Ishi's life 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: reverberated into our modern bow hunting culture more than you 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: might know. I really doubt that you're gonna want to 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: miss this one. And as a note, we interrupted this 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: series for our ted kopple in, but we're back on 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: track and I hope that everyone is having a great 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: start to the fall. 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: And the medical doctor that they assigned Ishi to was 18 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: doctor Saxton Pope, Saxon, Pope of the Pope and Young 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: Club that we have today. Saxton Pope, father of Bohunting. 20 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: Saxon Pope was assigned to be the medical doctor for Ishi. 21 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: Pope became Ishi's closest friend. By all accounts, more so 22 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: than Krober, more sou than Waterman, more so than Sambawa. 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: Pope was Ishi's best friend. 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: My name is Clay nukemb and this is the Bear 25 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,639 Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 26 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 27 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 28 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: Presented by FHF Gear American Maid, purpose built hunting and 29 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: fishing gear as designed to be as rugged as the 30 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: place as we explore. The singing we've just heard was 31 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: the voice of a man who, on August twenty ninth, 32 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, wandered into a stockyard in Oraville, California. His 33 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: hair was singed near to the scalp in mourning. He 34 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: was emaciated. The only clothing he wore was a shredded 35 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: piece of canvas wagon cover. Spoke no English and appeared destitute. 36 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: The local sheriff took him into the jail, where he 37 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: stayed for several days until anthropologists from the University of California, 38 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: who had read in the newspaper about a Stone Age 39 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: man who could understand no man's language had wandered into 40 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: town and these men came and got him. Rumors had 41 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: circulated for the last two decades that a small band 42 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: of Yanna Indians remained in the remote region of northern California, 43 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: in the Deer and Mill Creek region, but few believed 44 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: it was true. How could it be true? At one 45 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: time there had been bounties for the scalps of these 46 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: Indians in the state of California, and they were the 47 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: targets of a decadees long genocide. But living the entirety 48 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: of his fifty years of life in hiding, completely isolated 49 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: from the technology of the Western world, one man remained. 50 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: He never revealed his name, but was simply referred to 51 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: to is Ishi, which in his native language simply meant man. 52 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: The story that this man would tell and the lessons 53 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: he'd teach, would alter the knowledge of Stone Age civilizations 54 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: and dramatically alter the trajectory of archery. This is the 55 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: story of Hi's life from nineteen eleven until nineteen sixteen, 56 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: before a tragic ending. In the last episode, we left 57 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: off with is She less than a week after his 58 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: arrival in Oraville, heading to San Francisco, California, with doctor 59 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: Waterman at the permission of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. 60 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: They would soon learn of the complexity of the culture 61 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: of the Yahee, a subtribe of the Yanna. This is 62 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: archery historian Jene Hopkins of Columbus, Indiana. 63 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: So he's you know, they keep him in the Oroville 64 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: jail just for a couple three days until Waterman can 65 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: get there. And Waterman gets there and he RECOGNI is 66 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: how important this find is. You know, this person is 67 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: in the contributions to our understanding of culture is going 68 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: to be This guy is a gold mine for us. 69 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 2: And he gets permission to take him back to the 70 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: university anthropology department, and he takes issue and puts him 71 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: on the train and now issue. All the time he 72 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: was living in the mountains, when he was up on 73 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: Mount Lassen, which was in the northeast part of their range. 74 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: When he was on mounta Lasson, he could look down 75 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: in the valleys and he could see the train. As 76 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 2: a young man in the eighteen sixties and seventies and eighties, 77 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 2: when he was up on the mountain, he could watch 78 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: that train go through the valleys, and his mother would 79 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: tell him that's the white man's there was a word 80 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: he used, monster. But you don't need to fear it 81 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 2: because it never leaves its tracks. It will not hurt you, 82 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: it will never leave its tracks. Now Here he is 83 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: in nineteen eleven, only having been captured just a couple 84 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: of days earlier. Waterman's taking them to the train station 85 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: and putting him on that train. And can you imagine 86 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: coming out of a culture that was truly stone Age, 87 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: and within two days you're on a train and you're 88 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: going to the big city and you're seeing buildings and 89 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: the vehicles and the trains and everything that goes on 90 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 2: inside a big city in nineteen eleven modern society. So 91 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: when she gets on the train and they're taking Waterman's 92 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: taking him back to the university, the University of California 93 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: and Berkeley, and they're going into you know, they're leaving 94 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: a civilization of culture that's truly stone Age. And he's 95 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: lived with nothing but a ball and arrow. He's lived 96 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: with nothing but fire and fire starters. He's lived having 97 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: to kill or catch or harvest anything and everything that 98 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: he would eat, except what he would raid from the cabins. 99 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: But he would never take you know, he'd never take 100 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: any canned goods. He would only take the stores that 101 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: were not canned because they didn't understand what canned goods were. 102 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: They didn't understand there were food inside those cans. But 103 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: here he is, just two days after being captured. He's 104 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: on a train going back to the big city. He'd 105 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: never seen more than forty people, and now he's in 106 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 2: a city where there's hundreds of thousands of people. It 107 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: must have been mind blowing for him. Can you imagine 108 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: what was going through his head. It must have been intimidating, 109 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: It must have been scary, but he didn't show it. 110 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: He didn't show it. He was very inquisitive. He was 111 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: fascinated his demeanor and his actions, and he didn't try 112 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: to escape, he didn't try to run. It was pure fascination. 113 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: So Waterman gets Issue back and they introduce Issue to 114 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: Alfred Kroeber, who was Waterman's partner in the anthropology department, 115 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: and Krober takes Issue basically under his wing, and they 116 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: give him a place to live in the museum there 117 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: at the Department of Anthropology. They don't want Issue to 118 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: feel like he's a captured inmate. They want Issue to 119 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: feel comfortable, They want the Issue to feel welcome, They 120 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: want him to feel like this could be your home. 121 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: And Issue is again fascinated where everything going on around him, 122 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: so inquisitive about everything he's seeing. And inside the anthropology department, 123 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of items. Included in those 124 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: items are a lot of cadavers and a lot of 125 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 2: skeletons and things that you know, Issui, in his way 126 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: of thinking, in his culture, was pretty intimidating, So that's 127 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: something he had to get used to. You know that 128 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: they would try to keep Issuy apart from the skeletons 129 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 2: and all the remains that they would have in a 130 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: typical anthropology department. 131 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: It's interesting and not surprising that Ishi had issues with 132 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: the Native American remains stored at the University of California. 133 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: All he'd ever known was the way his culture dealt 134 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: with the dead, likely cremating them. But the details of 135 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: all this remain a mystery. But here these people were 136 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: storing human remains in boxes. Seventy nine years later, a 137 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: US federal law called the Native American Graves Protection and 138 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: Repatriation Act of nineteen ninety would require institutions to return 139 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: human remains and funeral objects to the tribes if requested later. 140 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: That very law would affect ishi remains. 141 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: So Issue was big news. Now big news across the country. 142 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 2: Last wild man captured in California. I use the analogy 143 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: if we would today capture a bigfoot and we would 144 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: bring him down and we would put him on display right, 145 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 2: and it would make newspaper headlines across the world. That's 146 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 2: why it was with Issue newspapers across the country. We're 147 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: telling the story of Issi on the front page. So 148 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: people were coming from all over the country to see 149 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 2: this last wild man. So now Crowber and watermen are 150 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: trying to figure out, why, what am I going to do? 151 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: How are we going to do this? We can't just 152 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: open it up, you know, we can't just let everybody 153 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 2: come in, which they did for a couple of weeks. 154 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: It got kind of out of hand, and then they decided, no, 155 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: we're going to have to schedule time. We're only going 156 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: to have a couple of hours in the afternoon. People 157 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 2: can come by and see Issue. So they give Issue 158 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: new clothes, pants, shirt, a jacket, tried to give him shoes, 159 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: he wouldn't take the shoes, and then he would They 160 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: would set up greeting a meet and greets more or 161 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 2: less for people to come in and people, local school 162 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: kids were coming, dignitarios were coming from across the country 163 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: to meet Issue. Krober would introduce Issu, I would like 164 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 2: you to meet mister Smith, and Issue would try to 165 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: it's best to pronounce the name because he was very respectful. 166 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: That's another thing about Ishi. You know, Yahi culture must 167 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: have been a very respectful culture. So it was very 168 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: important to him when he would be introduced to somebody 169 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: that he would be able to repeat your name, and 170 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: he would try his best to pronounce, and his articulation 171 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: was very good. So you know is she was a 172 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 2: smart man. He was a very smart man. He just 173 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 2: hadn't been taught the things of our culture. He was 174 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: taught the things of his culture. But he picked up 175 00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 2: the things of our culture very quickly. And at that 176 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: time anthropology was a fairly new science. So we have T. T. 177 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: Waterman and we have Alfred Kroeber, the two anthropology professors 178 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: there at the University of California. Waterman takes him back 179 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: there and then Kroeber. They start to study more and 180 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: more of Issue, and they're actually starting to build now. 181 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: They teach Issue a few words of English. Issue teaches 182 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: them a few words of Yahi, and over a period 183 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: of time, Ishi gets to the point where he can 184 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: has a vocabulary of about five hundred English words. But 185 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: he would take a lot of those words in Yahie 186 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: eyes that because in the Yahi language it was actually 187 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: a dual language. Women spoke one way, men spoke another way. 188 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 2: So a good example, let's use the word hat in English, 189 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: it's hat. Yahi would have a word for hat, Yahi 190 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: word for hat. Well, let's pretend it's English. So the 191 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 2: women would say hat, the men would say hat. 192 00:12:59,559 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: Not. 193 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 2: So they would put a suffix on the back of 194 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 2: their words. So when a man was speaking to a man, 195 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 2: this was a hat, And when a woman was speaking 196 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: to a woman, or a man was speaking to a woman, 197 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: was a hat. So is has he learned English a 198 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: lot of his words he would do that. He would 199 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: put the male suffix on the end of a lot 200 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: of his words. So when you listen, you can actually 201 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 2: go out and google, go to YouTube. There's some stories 202 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: out there where they actually recorded Ishi talking. There are 203 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: wax recordings. There are one hundred and forty seven or 204 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: hundred and forty eight different wax recordings of Ishi talking 205 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 2: and singing and telling Yahi stories, so you can hear 206 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 2: his voice. Today. 207 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: There are five hours and forty one minutes of recordings 208 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: of Ishi talking and singing in Yahi, recorded by Waterman 209 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: and Krober. Here's a clip of Ishi described in the 210 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: History of the Yahi language. Wants to do? 211 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 2: Of course. 212 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: It come Pick's life barely overlapped with the technology making 213 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: it possible to record his voice. Can you imagine the 214 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: life that the man lived who you've just heard. Gene 215 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: is now going to tell us about another relationship that 216 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: she had, and for many of us, this relationship might 217 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: be the one that impacts us the most today. 218 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: Now, interestingly, again one of the books which I give 219 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: credibility to doctor Saxon Pope. So when issue was brought 220 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 2: to the university, the first people that he was introduced 221 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: to Waterman, who came to Oroville to get him. Obert 222 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: was the other anthropologist. When they took him back to 223 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: the university. Krober became a big part of his life, 224 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 2: actually became closer to him than Waterman, but then there 225 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: was also a medical doctor, and the medical doctor that 226 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: they assigned Ishi to was doctor Saxton Pope, Saxon Pope 227 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: of the Pope and Young Club that we have today. 228 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: Saxton Pope, father of Bohunting. Saxon Pope was assigned to 229 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: be the medical doctor for Ishi. Pope became Ishi's closest friend. 230 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: By all accounts, more so than Krober, more so than Waterman, 231 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: more so than sam Bawa. Pope was Ishi's best friend. 232 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 2: Issue would call him Pope. He wouldn't say Pope, he 233 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: would say Pope. Remember again the ah he had the 234 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: suffix they would put on the end of the words. 235 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 2: So Pope became Pope. Pope was his best friend. One 236 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: account says that Ishi actually shared his real name with Pope, 237 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: and I believe the story the book is very credible. 238 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: But Pope, out of respect for Ishi, never told anybody 239 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: what his name was. So did he We don't know. 240 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 2: Could likely. I think Pope didn't know his real name, 241 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: but he never shared it. So now we're into late 242 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: nineteen eleven, I think this is really critical. We talk 243 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: about Saxton Pope and how important Saxton Pope was to 244 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: us as bow hunters. Saxon. Pope wrote the book nineteen 245 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: twenty three, Hunting with the Bow and Arrow. That book 246 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: was a combination or culmination of a lot of stories 247 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: and a lot of things he learned from Ishi. How 248 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: to hunt with Yahi styles, how to call, how to decoy, 249 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: how to make equipment. A lot of that book, Hunting 250 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: with the Bone Arrow nineteen twenty three is what he 251 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: learned from Ishi. That book is what really launched our sport. 252 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: That book got Doug Easton into bow hunting. That was 253 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: a big deal, now, Pope, So I'm going to back 254 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: up now, that nineteen twenty three book, which was the end, 255 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 2: the result. The beginning of that was him being assigned 256 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: to Issue as his medical doctor in nineteen twelve and 257 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: early nineteen twelve. Pope had been seeing Issue since he 258 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 2: was captured a doctor patient relationship in nineteen twelve. Spring 259 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 2: of nineteen twelve, Pope is looking out his office window 260 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: and he sees Issue on the lawn shooting a bow. 261 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 2: He's out there by himself shooting a bow. Pope gets 262 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 2: up and walks out and Issu shows him how to 263 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: shoot a bow. Issui introduces Pope to the bow. Now 264 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 2: Pope had an interest in archery. But here is issue now, 265 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: taking Pope and teaching him how to shoot a bow, 266 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: how to hunt with a bow. In nineteen twelve, that's 267 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: when Pope became more than his doctor. That's when their 268 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: friendship started. That's when they started to realize that they 269 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 2: were brothers of the bow. And from that point forward, 270 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: there weren't days go by that they weren't going out 271 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: and shooting. That issue wasn't teaching Pope something about archery 272 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: and hunting with the bow and arrow? 273 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: Is She's impact on Saxton Pope, who the Pope and 274 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 1: Young Club would later be named after, is immeasurable. That 275 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: impact is if you're not familiar, The Pope and Young 276 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: Club is America's premier bow hunting conservation organization, still in 277 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: existence today. Archery was on its way to being completely 278 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: lost in a world enamored with the technology of the firearm, 279 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: but some people still had interest in this archaic form 280 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: of hunting. 281 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 2: So by nineteen fourteen, is she has been He's gotten 282 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: very comfortable with his life there at the university. They 283 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: have made him an assistant janitor. They gave him a job. 284 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: They figured he she was costing them about twenty five 285 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 2: dollars a week for food and bardon. They gave him 286 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: a job as assistant janitor, and they gave him the 287 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 2: salary of twenty five dollars a week. So Issu not 288 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: just because they wanted him to earn his own living, 289 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: but because but more because they wanted him to have 290 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: the pride that he wasn't living off of them. He 291 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: was taking care of himself. He was making his own living. 292 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: And he would take his twenty five dollars a week 293 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: salary and he would They taught him how to sign 294 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 2: his name. He was paid a check and he would 295 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: go down and cash the check and then he would 296 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 2: take his change back there. His cash back in half dollars, 297 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: and he would take his fifty cent pieces and he 298 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: would stack them into stacks of twenty so he could count. 299 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: And then he he was in his cult. He never 300 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 2: had to worry about thieves, He never had to worry 301 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: about somebody taking something that didn't belong to him. So 302 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: he would keep all his money on his table. Pope 303 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: and Krober both that's not a good idea. So Krober 304 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: took him back to the office and showed him the safe, 305 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: and is she we can pick your money, and we 306 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 2: can put it in the safe here, and we'll have 307 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 2: a little box and we'll have your name on it. 308 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 2: This is yours, and you can get it out anytime 309 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 2: you want. But it's not wise to keep your money 310 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 2: on the table like you've been doing. So from that 311 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: point on, is She kept his money in that safe, 312 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: and he would spend about half of his weekly salary 313 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,959 Speaker 2: on ice cream and on food and things like that. 314 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: He loved ice cream. With the other half he would 315 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: take every week and put it into the bank. 316 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: Can you imagine describing the value of currency to a 317 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: fifty year old man who walked out of the stone age. 318 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: This coin represents value that you can go and trade 319 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: for food and clothes and stuff you need. Can you 320 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: imagine describing to him the banking system. These people will 321 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: keep your money safe. It must have been a wild concept, 322 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: but he understood it immediately. Here's more from Jane, giving 323 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 1: us a picture of is She's new life in San Francisco. 324 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: So okay in nineteen fourteen. Again, issue's very comfortable. Now 325 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 2: he's been making his own living. He's the assistant janitor. 326 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: He's now picked up about four to five hundred words 327 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: of English. He's able to walk the city by himself. 328 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 2: He's able to go shopping by himself. He's interacting, he's mingling, 329 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 2: he's become part of the community, and he goes to 330 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 2: Again Pope is the doctor. Pope is one of the 331 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: most noteworthy, successful, looked up to surgeons in the country. 332 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 2: He's the head of the department, the surgery department at 333 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 2: the University of California. By the time he's in his 334 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 2: mid thirties. Pope would live Is. She come into to 335 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 2: the hospital with him and meet the patients, and Is 336 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: She would even wear a lab coat and walk into 337 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: the room and sometimes by himself. He'd walk into the 338 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: patients room and look the patient, not say anything, just 339 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: look at the patient. And then he'd walk out, and 340 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 2: the patients knew who he was. It wasn't like who 341 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: was that guy? You know, they knew the story of Issue. 342 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: They knew who he was. You know. He was a 343 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 2: very respected, looked up to again, cheerful, he was never 344 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 2: in a bad mood, so he was good for people. 345 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 2: So Is she would come into the hospital, Pope would 346 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: actually take him into the operating room and Issue would 347 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: be able to observe Pope doing operations. Here's a man 348 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 2: again three years ago was coming out of a stone 349 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: Age civilization, and now he's watching Pope perform surgeries removing kidneys. 350 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: And Ishi was fascinated obviously by that, and so there 351 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: were several stories about Issue would debate po on some 352 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 2: of the treatments. Why do you do that? You don't 353 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 2: need to do that, You just do this, you know, 354 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: madsines and herbs and things like this. You don't need 355 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: to cut him, you can do this. And at other times, 356 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 2: something really radical, like removing the kidney, it was like, 357 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 2: how will that man live? You know, can you imagine 358 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: three years ago you were in stone Age and now 359 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 2: you're watching surgeries removing a kidney, You're watching them recover 360 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: and living. It was unbelievable. Oh, here is one story 361 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: I want to tell. So remember when Issue came down. 362 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: For the last forty years of his life, his world 363 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: was four and five people. That was it. That was 364 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: all the civilization he knew. Overnight, he's put into a 365 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: civilization where there are thousands of people, tens of thousands, 366 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands, writing trains, seeing cars going two shows. Well, 367 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 2: they take Issue to basically a vaudeville show where they're 368 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: singing and dancing and there's a beautiful lady singing and 369 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 2: Issui and Krober and Waterman and Pope are all at 370 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 2: the show. And is she? They think, is SHEI would 371 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 2: be really interested in the show, But in reality, is 372 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 2: she is not even watching the show? What is he 373 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 2: fascinated by? He's fascinated because this is the first time 374 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 2: he's been in a room with so many people, and 375 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: they just said it was like the show didn't exist. 376 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 2: The show to him was being in a room with 377 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: hundreds of people at the same time think about is she. 378 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: Since he was ten years old, his world is four 379 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: and five people, a sister, cousin, a mother, an old 380 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 2: man who might have been an uncle, and himself. He 381 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: never had an experience of dating, of having a woman 382 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: in his life. That was something that he never had 383 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 2: the chance to experience. So when he went to the show, 384 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 2: the newspaper guy was there and he wrote a story. 385 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: And his story was he had a story he wanted 386 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 2: to tell. Regardless of what happened, he already had a 387 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: story and it was how issue was infatuated with the dancer, 388 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 2: and obviously he had thoughts of the lady. But in reality, 389 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: all the people around him said he didn't even look 390 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 2: at her. And I've got a picture of him and 391 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: her and Waterman and Kroeber and Pope after the show 392 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: is over with. He doesn't care about her. He carried 393 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 2: about the room full of people. That's what he cared about. 394 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 2: They would take him, and they thought he would be 395 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: wowed by the buildings there at Berkeley and at San Francisco. 396 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 2: He wasn't excited at all about the big buildings. They 397 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 2: think that's because when he spent his years growing up 398 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: in the mountains, it was nothing for him to be 399 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 2: up on the side of the mountains. He was always 400 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 2: up high. He would jump from the side of the 401 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: cliff onto a tree, never thought anything about it. He 402 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: would get out on the ledges of the buildings and 403 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: just walk. The ledges didn't bother him at all. Heights 404 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 2: didn't bother him at all. He wasn't fascinated by the 405 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: big buildings. He was fascinated by the people. 406 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: Now, Jean's gonna tell us about a trip that was 407 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: proposed to Ishi. 408 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: So nineteen fourteen, Pope, Waterman and Krober have the idea 409 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 2: issues at the peak of his health. He's no longer 410 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: the emaciated, starved Indian that they found in nineteen eleven. 411 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: He's a very healthy man. Now. You can see pictures 412 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 2: of Ishi in nineteen fourteen. He's a pretty muscled guy. 413 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: They decide that wouldn't it be fantastic if we could 414 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: take Issui back up into the country where he came from. 415 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 2: We could take him back up to the Ahi country. 416 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: We can let him tell us and show us where 417 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 2: all of these things happened, Kingsley's Cave, massacre, Grizzly Bear's 418 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 2: hiding place. Let's go, let's go up in the spring 419 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 2: in nineteen fourteen, and let's go back with Issue. So 420 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 2: they approached Issue with this idea, and is she was 421 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: not so good about that. He was not so comfortable 422 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: with that. So was it because it brought back bad memories. 423 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 2: I don't want to go back there. That's where all 424 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 2: my people were killed. Or was it because they thought 425 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 2: he thought they might be taking him back there and 426 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: they were going to leave him. We don't know what 427 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: is she was thinking, but he wasn't comfortable with the 428 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 2: idea going back. Finally he relented. Finally he said, Okay, 429 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: I'll go back, and they took one room of the 430 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: museum and that was their staging room and all the 431 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: equipment they were going to take on the trip with them. 432 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: They'd stage in that room, but there were also skeletons 433 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 2: and things in that room. So is she says, you're 434 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: this is not good. I mean, you know, everything's just 435 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 2: going to be polluted with bad spirits. So they had 436 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 2: to take all their equipment and rap it up and 437 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 2: show Ishi that has wrapped up. It can't be exposed 438 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 2: to the bad spirits, and it's good. And issue was fine, 439 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: and then they went. They went on a long pack 440 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 2: horse pack trip up into the area where the Ahi lived, 441 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: and they spent a few weeks up there, and Ishi 442 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 2: loved it. He by the time they started the trip, 443 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 2: he was excited. So they go up into the mountains 444 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: and he shows them wherever, you know, this is where 445 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: I killed a bear. And he walks and he says, here, 446 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: and he starts digging in the ground and he actually 447 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: finds the skull and the claws of the bear that 448 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 2: he killed. He found the spot where he buried the bear. 449 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: Is she buried a bear? This story confirms something that 450 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: I've recently been learning about from my book project on 451 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: the American black bear. Ceremonial disposal of bear remains was 452 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: common across North America. Many animals they would dispose of 453 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: without ceremony. The bear was different and required more effort. 454 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Some tribes through beares into rivers, and others buried them 455 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: like humans. This confused archaeologists for a long time, leading 456 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: them to believe that many tribes didn't eat bears because 457 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: they didn't find bare bones and refuse piles. Only later 458 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: would they learn about the ceremonial disposal practices and going 459 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: back to issue being concerned with their gear being stored 460 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: in a room with human remains. I'd like to read 461 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: a quote from Theodora Kroeber's book Eschi in Two Worlds, 462 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: where she writes about his spiritual doctrine. This is what 463 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: she said. He was an introvert, reserved, contemplative, and philosophical. 464 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: He lived at ease with the supernatural and the mystical, 465 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: which were pervasive in all aspects of life. He felt 466 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: no need to differentiate mystical truth from directly evidential or 467 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: material truth, or the supernatural from the natural. One was 468 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: as manifest as the other within his systems. Of values 469 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: and persons and beliefs. The promoter, the boaster, the aggressor, 470 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: the egotist, the innovator would have been looked at askance. 471 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: The ideal was the man of restraint, dignity, rectitude, He 472 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: of the middle way. Life proceeded within the limits of 473 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: known and proper pattern, from birth through death and beyond. 474 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: End of quote. I find fascinating the intersection of the 475 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: spirit world in the natural world. I think these things 476 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: are still relevant today. But let's get back to the 477 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: trip to Ishi's homeland. 478 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: He took them to the cave. He took them to 479 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: the grizzly bear's hiding place. In the grizzly bears hiding place, 480 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: there were still some things when they left. They left behind. 481 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 2: There were some residues, some remnants that the settlers hadn't 482 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: stolen that were left behind. They would swim in the creek, 483 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 2: would hunt. They would kill deer. Pope wanted to kill 484 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 2: a deer. Issues was teaching him how to hunt. Pope smoked, 485 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: and is she said they went two days, they didn't 486 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: kill a deer. Is She says, you're not killing a 487 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 2: deer because you're smoking. You have to quit smoking. So 488 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: Pope quit smoking. The next day he killed a deer. 489 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 2: Is She said, see, I told you you know so 490 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: Is She was imparting on them all of his wisdom 491 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: about living in the country and making a living off 492 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: the country. And so they spent a couple of months 493 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: up there on the Springtime Adventure. It was Pope, it 494 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 2: was Krober, it was Waterman, it was Pope's oldest son, 495 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 2: Saxton Junr. And it was Issu. 496 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: The ripples of this historic trip with Is she teaching 497 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: Saxon Pope how to effectively kill game with the primitive 498 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: bow are still being felt today. Many of the skills 499 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: that modern bow hunters have and even take for granted, 500 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: like how to wait before you track a bowshot animal 501 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: and then blood trail, it was likely learned from Ishi 502 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: on this trip. But I've got to warn you things 503 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: are about to existentially change for Ishi. 504 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 2: And they come back and they make plans to go 505 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 2: back in the fall. Well in the fall, and then 506 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 2: especially by the spring, Issue started showing signs of sickness. 507 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 2: So by the fall of nineteen fourteen, he had a fever, 508 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 2: he had a cough. They tested him for different things 509 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: like tuberculosis. Negative tests it's just a cold, it's just 510 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: something going on, And then they planned to go in 511 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: nineteen fifteen. Well, in nineteen fifteen, Issu became morale to 512 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: the point where he wasn't able to make the trip, 513 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 2: so they never made it back. They only made the 514 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,479 Speaker 2: one trip in nineteen fourteen. Now, Issu's health deteriorated from 515 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: that point, although his TB tests were still showing negative, 516 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: But at that time in medicine, TV tests were often negative. 517 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: Even if he would have been positive, it was not 518 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: unusual to get a negative test, and by nineteen By 519 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 2: the fall of nineteen fifteen and early nineteen sixteen, full 520 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: blown tuberculosis had come and Issu's health was getting poor, 521 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 2: and by March of nineteen sixteen, Is she died of tuberculosis. Now, 522 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 2: if you know tuberculosis, it's a terrible, terrible, terrible death, 523 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: And tuberculosis in the early part of the nineteen hundreds 524 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: was a very common disease across the US. Waterman Krober's 525 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: own wife, his first wife, had to tuberculosis. Interesting because 526 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: is she would go to Krober's house for dinner. Often 527 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 2: he would spend several nights staying at Crober's house. His 528 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: Crober's wife had tuberculosis. Could he have got the tuberculosis 529 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: from his wife? Crober's wife. Crober's wife passed away of 530 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 2: tuberculosis in nineteen thirteen, or all the time that is, 531 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 2: she spent in the hospital with Doctor Pope. Many patients 532 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 2: in the hospital were there because of tuberculosis. Why weren't 533 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 2: they shielding him from that? They knew that he was 534 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 2: a compromised immunity because of his culture, because of his background. 535 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 2: So some of the criticism probably rightfully so, so why 536 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 2: didn't they shelter him more? Why didn't they protect him 537 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 2: more from white man's disease? But he got tuberculosis, so 538 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 2: he died. Pope was grief stricken. This was his best friend. 539 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 2: They were truly best friends. Waterman had left for Europe 540 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 2: several months before that. Kro Krober had gone to Europe. 541 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: Kroeber had gotten word that the tuberculosis tests were positive. 542 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 2: Now he knew Issue's days were numbered, but he couldn't 543 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 2: get back. He got all the way back to New York, 544 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 2: but his business schedule kept him in New York. He 545 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 2: was communicating via telegram back with the people at the hospital, 546 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 2: keeping track of Issue. Knowing that he was progressively getting 547 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: worker worse, eventually getting to the point where death is imminent. 548 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 2: And he left word there will be no autopsy. We 549 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 2: will respect Issue's culture. There is no need to do 550 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 2: an autopsy. We know he died of tuberculosis. Science be damned, 551 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 2: Science can go to hell. Are the words that he wrote. 552 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 2: There will be no autopsy, and he sent the letter. 553 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: He sent it via letter. The letter didn't arrive in time. 554 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 2: Is she died. Pope conducted an autopsy. Now he did 555 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 2: it respectfully. Pope being a medical doctor, he didn't think 556 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,760 Speaker 2: like Kroeber is an anthropologist. But he did the autopsy. 557 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 2: What wasn't talked about at the time was that he 558 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 2: also took Issue's brain and they were studying the brain. 559 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: Now by nineteen seventeen, Kroeber is back at the university again. 560 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: Krober is over the emotional impact of Issu dying. He 561 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: knows that the brain is there. What are we going 562 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 2: to do? They'd taken the body and cremated what they 563 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 2: thought was the IHI desire for cremation. They took the 564 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: body and cremated it, put it in a ceramic urn. 565 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 2: The IHI would have said, put it in a basket 566 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 2: and bury it. And they took it to the local 567 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 2: cemetery and put it in more or less a mausoleum. 568 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 2: But the brain stayed in the museum, and in nineteen 569 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 2: seventeen Krober sent a letter to the Smithsonian. There was 570 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 2: a gentleman at the Smithsonian who was collecting brains from 571 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 2: different civilizations, studying what. I don't know why, I don't know, 572 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 2: but he had brains from all different cultures, all different civilizations. 573 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 2: Krober made a deal to send Issu's brain to the Smithsonian, 574 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: to the sky for his collection, his brain collection, and 575 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 2: he did. He sent the brain to the Smithsonian in 576 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 2: nineteen seventeen. It didn't get cremated with the body. But 577 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 2: this was all done kind of on the sly and 578 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 2: it wasn't talked about. It wasn't even people at the 579 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 2: hospital didn't even know it. So the stories start to 580 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 2: come out. Somehow, people start to hear that issue's brain 581 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 2: had been removed, and they start to do some investigation. 582 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 2: Where's the brain? What happened to it? We don't know, 583 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 2: it's not here being in this Smithsonian. People didn't know. 584 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 2: So there were a couple of people that actually started 585 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 2: on the trail, starting researching what happened to the brain, 586 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 2: And in nineteen eighty nine they found the letters where 587 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: Krober had sent the communication to the guy at the 588 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 2: Smithsonian about the brain. The guy had said, yes, I 589 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 2: would love to have it, and they find evidence that 590 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 2: it is it did get sent to the Smithsonian. But 591 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 2: remember back if you were alive in the eighties, there 592 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: was this big native repatriation movement. All you know, you 593 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 2: can no longer dig for artifacts bones which people collected, 594 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 2: private people collected bones, universities collected bones of natives. George 595 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 2: Bush signed a law that those had to be repatriated 596 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 2: if they were requested. So some local natives requested issues brain. 597 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 2: They found out about the brain, they requested the brain, 598 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: and they requested the cremated remains so they could take 599 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 2: it to the mountains and bury it as the how 600 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 2: he would have wanted. So they found that the cremated 601 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 2: remains right away. It was common knowledge people, you know, 602 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 2: it was there in the local cemetery. But the brain 603 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 2: was a dead end. And it started actually got a 604 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,240 Speaker 2: response from somebody who should have and probably didn't know better, 605 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 2: that the brain had been incinerated because this mith Estonian 606 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 2: didn't want it to get out that they had the brain. 607 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 2: They didn't want the bad publicity, so they disposed of it. 608 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 2: The story was they disposed of it to prevent that 609 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 2: from happening. We don't have it. In reality, they didn't. 610 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 2: In reality it was still there, but it took several 611 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 2: years of this two people digging before they got to 612 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 2: somebody that knew where it was. And they found somebody 613 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 2: who knew where it was, and they got the brain 614 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 2: and they took it back with the ashes, the cremated ashes, 615 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 2: and they took it to the base of Mount Lassen 616 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: there in the Aahi country and they buried it. Now 617 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 2: interesting remember the cremated ashes were in an urn, the 618 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 2: ceramic urn. The urn when they got it out of 619 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 2: basically the mausoleum had a cement plug in it, so 620 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: they couldn't open it to get the ashes out. They 621 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 2: wanted to put the ashes in the ground, so the 622 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 2: break the urn open. When they broke it open, there 623 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 2: were the ashes, There was some bone, There was some 624 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: obsidian flakes in there which Pope had put in before 625 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 2: they cremated issue. And there was a letter that somebody 626 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 2: had put in the urn a yellowed piece of paper. 627 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 2: After the cremation, the people doing the repatriation found that letter. 628 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 2: It was folded up, and you know what, they never 629 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 2: opened it. They never read it. They respected that whoever 630 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 2: wrote it put it in there as person to person. 631 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,000 Speaker 2: This is from them to issue. It's none of our business. 632 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 2: So they buried it with the ashes, and they buried 633 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 2: the brain. They didn't incinerate the brain. They carried the 634 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 2: brain from the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, d c. As 635 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,439 Speaker 2: carry on baggage on a plane back to California, took 636 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 2: it up into the mountains with the ashes and buried 637 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 2: the ashes along with the whole brain and the letter, 638 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 2: and never opened the letter. We don't know who the 639 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 2: letter was from speculation it was probably Pope, that was 640 00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 2: his best friend. What did it say? No idea fascinating And. 641 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: She's contribution to linguistics, anthropology and our understanding of indigenous 642 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 1: Americans is hard to quantify. But what we can quantify 643 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: is is she's contribution to archery. I want to hear 644 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 1: about this from Gene, a man who's dedicated his life 645 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: to archery. 646 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 2: So is she's contribution to us? You know, as we 647 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 2: said here, today in a room full of archery and 648 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 2: bow hunting. And you know my life, I've you know, 649 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 2: I've been hunting with the bow and arrow for sixty years. 650 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 2: It's all I've ever done. I told you my first 651 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 2: big game animal were grasshoppers in the cow pasture when 652 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,839 Speaker 2: I was five and six seven years old. I thought 653 00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 2: that was a big deal. You know, to me, a 654 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 2: grasshopper was a big game hunt. I was out there 655 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 2: with my bow and arrow shooting grasshoppers and putting them 656 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 2: in my pocket, and then taking them to the farm 657 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,879 Speaker 2: pond and catching bluegills in bass. What is she did 658 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 2: for us in that day, on that day in nineteen 659 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 2: twelve when Pope looked out that window and saw is 660 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 2: she shooting the bow? And Pope left his office and 661 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 2: went down there and started shooting with him. And from 662 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 2: that point they go up into the mountains in nineteen 663 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,959 Speaker 2: fourteen and they go hunting, and is She's teaching Pope 664 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,959 Speaker 2: how to hunt white tailed deer and how to call 665 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,560 Speaker 2: and how to decoy and how to get close. And 666 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 2: then is she dies and Pope continues And something that 667 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 2: I think not many people know or understand too, is 668 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 2: how it all fits together in nineteen fifteen. Is she 669 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 2: went was asked to be part of the Pan Pacific 670 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 2: Exhibition there in California. It's kind of like the World's Fair. Is. 671 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 2: She was on the show card for the Pan Pacific 672 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 2: nineteen fifteen. Remember again, all across the country, Issue was 673 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 2: front Age News. One of the people who read one 674 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 2: of those stories was Will Compton. Chief Compton. Chief Compton 675 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 2: comes to the Pan Pacific in nineteen fifteen to see Issi. 676 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 2: He also goes to the Japanese Archery exhibit, which is 677 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 2: there that year too. And while he's there at the 678 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 2: Japanese Archery exhibit, this tall athletic man comes up and 679 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 2: stands next to him, looking at the same exhibit, and 680 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 2: Compton introduces himself to the man. The man says, Hello, 681 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 2: I'm Art Young or Art glad to meet you. Do 682 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 2: you hunt with a bone aero or do you shoot 683 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,879 Speaker 2: a bone arrow? No? I think I would like to. Well, 684 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 2: why don't you come back and let's go meet this 685 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 2: guy named Ishi. And then they get friends with Pope 686 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 2: because Pope is part of Issue's circle. So now we 687 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 2: have Pope, Compton and Young coming together because of Issue is. 688 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 2: She dies in nineteen sixteen Pope and young continue to 689 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 2: hunt across the world. They go to Alaska, they go 690 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 2: to Africa. They hunt with their bow and arrow. They 691 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 2: document their hunts, they write stories for the magazine. They 692 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 2: publish books about hunting with the bow and arrow. Art 693 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 2: goes on a hunt to Alaska, makes a movie, a 694 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 2: silent black and white movie of hunting Alaska called Alaskan Adventures. 695 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,720 Speaker 2: You can google it and look at it on YouTube. 696 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 2: He comes back with that movie and he goes around 697 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 2: the country showing that silent black and white movie at 698 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 2: movie theaters across the country. Well, because it's silent, he 699 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 2: goes too, and he sits on stage and he narrates 700 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 2: the movie for the audience, and then after the show 701 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,319 Speaker 2: he does shooting exhibitions. Well, he's doing this show in 702 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty eight in Detroit in the audience as a 703 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 2: young man by the name of Fred Bhaer. Fred introduces 704 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 2: himself to Art, finds out Art's going to be at 705 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 2: a I think it was either a Lions Club or 706 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 2: Certoma club meeting a couple weeks later, and he goes 707 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 2: to that and he becomes friends with Art, and Art 708 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,280 Speaker 2: and Fred end up in Fred's basement Art teaching Fred 709 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 2: how to make archery equipments. That's how Fred Bher got 710 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 2: into archery. That's how Fred bhar and why Fred Behaer 711 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 2: started Bear Archery Company a few years later in nineteen 712 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 2: thirty three. Art died in nineteen thirty five. Compton died 713 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty eight. Fred bher starts Bear Archery in 714 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three. Fred Bhaer genius at marketing, probably with 715 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 2: in my mind, without doubt, the most important man for 716 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 2: marketing our sport. He understood it's not good enough just 717 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 2: to make equipment. It's not good enough just to sell 718 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 2: bows and arrows. We've got to build a sport. We've 719 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 2: got to market this to people so that they want 720 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 2: to do this. Otherwise they're not even going to know 721 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,320 Speaker 2: it exists. So Fred Bhaer goes out and brings archery 722 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:02,280 Speaker 2: to the world. Fred Bher, Glenn's St. Charles Lynn, Saint Charles. 723 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,480 Speaker 2: They make movies, they make TV shows, The American Sportsman. 724 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 2: One of my earliest memories of bull hunting was getting 725 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,240 Speaker 2: up on Saturday morning and watching The American Sportsman on ABC, 726 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 2: and here is Gwenn, Saint Charles, and Fred Bhaer hunting Alaska. 727 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 2: That fired me up, That just lit my flame and 728 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 2: never went out. Then I become friends with Gwen Saint Charles, 729 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,399 Speaker 2: I get to meet Fred Bhaer because I'm a bear 730 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 2: dealer in the seventies and eighties, and I get to 731 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 2: meet these guys, I get to become friends. And that 732 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,000 Speaker 2: goes all the way back to issue. If is She 733 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 2: hadn't been the glue that brought together Art Young, Saxton Pope, 734 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,720 Speaker 2: and Chief Compton Fred Behar wouldn't have gone to that movie. 735 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,640 Speaker 2: Fred Bhaer might not have started bear archery. We're here 736 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 2: today because is She brought those people together. 737 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,319 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty one, Glenn Saint Charles and Fred Baer 738 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: and several others founded the Pope and Young Club, which 739 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: influenced North American hunting culture significantly and specifically through bow hunting. 740 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: Their mission is to preserve wildlife, promote bow hunting, and 741 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,239 Speaker 1: protect hunting. I think clubs like the Pop and Young 742 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: Club and the Boone and Crocket Club are extremely important 743 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: and relevant even today. These clubs are typically just known 744 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,279 Speaker 1: as record keeping organizations for animals. That's kind of what 745 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,280 Speaker 1: they've been become known for. You know, their scoring systems 746 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: for gauging the size of antlers and skulls. But they 747 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,839 Speaker 1: really do so much more to protect our heritage as 748 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,680 Speaker 1: American hunters, and I think these organizations deserve our support. 749 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: And I think it's super interesting how they can be 750 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,960 Speaker 1: tracked back to this man Ischi that I can see 751 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: a hero of our culture, a hero of this continent. 752 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: I think it's super interesting how it all goes back 753 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:13,200 Speaker 1: to him. I can't thank you enough for listening to 754 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: Bear Grease, for listening to Brints, this country Life, for 755 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,680 Speaker 1: listening to Lakes Backwoods University. We're putting our heart and 756 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,360 Speaker 1: soul into telling these stories. We can't thank you guys 757 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 1: enough for just following along. Please share this feed with 758 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 1: your buddies this week. And I just hope everyone has 759 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: a great fault. I hope you get to hunt. I 760 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,120 Speaker 1: hope you're successful. I hope you get to spend some 761 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 1: incredible time with your friends and family in the woods. 762 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: And I just every day I am just more and more 763 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,280 Speaker 1: thankful for the life that we get to lead amidst 764 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 1: the chaos of the earth that surrounds us. We've got 765 00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,640 Speaker 1: a great treasure in wild places and our ability to 766 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: go and hunt them and acquire wild game for our family, 767 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: and to let these activities of our culture be a 768 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: conduit to our children for a value system of respect, responsibility, honesty, integrity, 769 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,080 Speaker 1: the things that I think wild places produce inside of us. 770 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,640 Speaker 1: For that reason, keep the wild places wild, because that's 771 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 1: where 772 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:26,440 Speaker 2: The bears live.