WEBVTT - BONUS: Make your inner voice work for you 0:00:14.956 --> 0:00:31.836 Pushkin Hey, Slight Changers. 0:00:32.596 --> 0:00:35.916 So it's only January, but if you're like me, you're 0:00:35.916 --> 0:00:40.836 already feeling pretty overwhelmed by twenty twenty five insert melting 0:00:40.876 --> 0:00:44.716 face emoji. Three weeks in and my Slight Change team 0:00:44.716 --> 0:00:49.036 and I have found ourselves ruminating, feeling despondent, and being 0:00:49.076 --> 0:00:52.956 needlessly self critical. And so we decided to look back 0:00:52.956 --> 0:00:56.396 at the archives and create a special compilation episode for you. 0:00:57.196 --> 0:01:01.036 We're sharing our favorite scientific tools for improving our relationship 0:01:01.116 --> 0:01:04.556 with ourselves and our mental health. Today, we're going to 0:01:04.636 --> 0:01:08.196 hear from three psychologists we've had on the show, Ethan 0:01:08.276 --> 0:01:12.956 cross And on the Science of introspection, Madubey Aquinola, who 0:01:12.996 --> 0:01:17.556 specializes in stress research, and Kristin Nef, a pioneer in 0:01:17.596 --> 0:01:21.236 the science of self compassion. We'll start with Ethan, who 0:01:21.316 --> 0:01:25.276 talks about our inner voice, that internal monologue that often 0:01:25.316 --> 0:01:29.116 serves us so well, but sometimes turns negative and starts 0:01:29.116 --> 0:01:33.076 the spiral out of control. Ethan calls this chatter and 0:01:33.116 --> 0:01:36.716 he shares some valuable tips for reining it in. But 0:01:36.876 --> 0:01:39.756 first he explains why having an inner voice at all 0:01:40.156 --> 0:01:43.076 is actually an incredible feature of our minds. 0:01:43.756 --> 0:01:46.676 I like to think about this inner voice as a 0:01:46.756 --> 0:01:49.916 kind of Swiss army knife of the human mind that 0:01:50.156 --> 0:01:53.996 lets us achieve a number of important things. So, at 0:01:54.036 --> 0:01:57.596 the most basic end of the spectrum, your inner voice 0:01:57.716 --> 0:01:59.836 lets you just keep information active in your heads. This 0:01:59.876 --> 0:02:02.676 may not be the most glamorous feature of it, but my, 0:02:02.876 --> 0:02:06.396 oh my, is it an important one. So if you 0:02:06.476 --> 0:02:09.996 go to the grocery store, for example, and you're like me, 0:02:10.716 --> 0:02:12.476 you know, my wife tells me what we need, and 0:02:12.596 --> 0:02:15.676 thirty seconds later, I forget what those things are. I'm 0:02:15.676 --> 0:02:17.836 walking down the grocery all that I'm thinking to myself 0:02:18.116 --> 0:02:20.156 what do I have to order? And I go over 0:02:20.196 --> 0:02:25.716 the list in my head cheez granola fruit. I'm using 0:02:25.756 --> 0:02:29.396 words silently to repeat those items. It's part of our 0:02:29.476 --> 0:02:33.556 working memory system, basic system of the human mind that 0:02:33.956 --> 0:02:37.356 is fundamental to our ability to navigate the world. 0:02:37.756 --> 0:02:39.636 Yeah, and I love another one you mentioned in your book, 0:02:39.676 --> 0:02:42.796 which is that our inability to escape our minds is 0:02:42.836 --> 0:02:46.916 also a driver of human ingenuity. It's like the fact 0:02:46.956 --> 0:02:50.156 that we can't escape our minds is giving us this 0:02:50.276 --> 0:02:53.756 fertile soil for creative ideas to come into existence. Right, 0:02:53.796 --> 0:02:55.916 I mean those the thoughts you have in the shower 0:02:55.956 --> 0:02:58.116 and you're taking a walk and you don't even notice it, 0:02:58.156 --> 0:02:59.756 but your mind is drifting off and then all of 0:02:59.796 --> 0:03:01.916 a sudden you come up with the new idea. 0:03:02.676 --> 0:03:04.636 Yeah, totally. I mean, I think this is the source 0:03:04.676 --> 0:03:08.276 of human innovation, which is why I think we actually 0:03:08.316 --> 0:03:12.876 want to give our elves latitude to let our introspective 0:03:12.916 --> 0:03:17.156 capacities run wild. So you know, it's interesting. There's some 0:03:17.196 --> 0:03:21.596 research which suggests that we spend between one half and 0:03:21.676 --> 0:03:24.756 one third of our waking hours not focused on the present, 0:03:25.396 --> 0:03:29.236 and sometimes those data are used to suggest that there's 0:03:29.276 --> 0:03:32.476 a huge problem, right because we should always be in 0:03:32.516 --> 0:03:37.036 the present, but this ability to travel in time in 0:03:37.076 --> 0:03:39.036 our minds, so to turn our attention in where to 0:03:39.076 --> 0:03:42.716 think about our past and anticipate the future. This lets 0:03:42.756 --> 0:03:44.916 us do a number of remarkable things. 0:03:45.436 --> 0:03:50.036 When does our inner voice become harmful and transform into 0:03:50.076 --> 0:03:50.916 what you call chatter? 0:03:52.236 --> 0:03:57.636 So it becomes harmful when we experience something in our 0:03:57.756 --> 0:04:01.276 life that cuse us to try to use this tool 0:04:01.716 --> 0:04:04.916 that we have to make sense of our feelings, but 0:04:05.156 --> 0:04:08.116 the tool gets jammed up, so something bad happens. We 0:04:08.156 --> 0:04:09.796 turn our attention in word to try to make sense 0:04:09.796 --> 0:04:11.796 of the problem, but we get stuck in a negative 0:04:11.836 --> 0:04:14.876 thought loop. That's what I call chatter. You keep on 0:04:15.036 --> 0:04:17.716 trying to think and work through the problem, but you 0:04:17.756 --> 0:04:20.516 don't make any progress. And there are lots of different 0:04:20.636 --> 0:04:24.996 terms that scientists have used to describe this state. If 0:04:25.036 --> 0:04:28.316 it's chatter about the past, we tend to call that ruminating. 0:04:28.396 --> 0:04:31.836 If it's about the future or present, we call that worrying. 0:04:32.436 --> 0:04:36.356 Sometimes we call it perseverating. But the common idea here 0:04:36.516 --> 0:04:40.796 is you're trying to make sense of a problem with language, 0:04:41.156 --> 0:04:44.676 but you're not making any forward progress. It's kind of 0:04:44.716 --> 0:04:47.436 like the visual is one of a hamster on an 0:04:47.436 --> 0:04:48.316 exercise wheel. 0:04:50.156 --> 0:04:53.756 We fall prey to this illusion when we're actively repeating 0:04:54.156 --> 0:04:56.276 those loops in our mind, that we are actually making 0:04:56.396 --> 0:05:01.516 progress because just merely indulging in that topic, right, like 0:05:01.636 --> 0:05:04.996 staying in that space. I think it fools our brains 0:05:05.036 --> 0:05:09.516 into thinking, ah, I am in fact advancing because look 0:05:09.516 --> 0:05:11.916 at how much airtime this topic is getting in my mind. 0:05:12.036 --> 0:05:13.836 And then only maybe. 0:05:13.636 --> 0:05:16.676 Hours later, do you realize, oh crap, I'm in exactly 0:05:16.716 --> 0:05:18.956 the same position that I was in at the beginning. 0:05:19.396 --> 0:05:23.196 Well, and think about how much experience you have succeeding 0:05:23.396 --> 0:05:25.836 in the usage of this tool. Like most of the time, 0:05:26.476 --> 0:05:30.156 this tool, this ability to use language to think analytically 0:05:30.196 --> 0:05:33.796 about a problem, it serves you really really will. I mean, 0:05:33.836 --> 0:05:37.356 this is undoubtedly why you have been able to achieve 0:05:37.396 --> 0:05:40.356 the things that you have accomplished in your life. And 0:05:40.636 --> 0:05:42.436 the same is true for so many other people. So 0:05:43.076 --> 0:05:46.676 you've got this tool that often works really really well. 0:05:46.716 --> 0:05:50.116 It should work here it's not working. I'm not a 0:05:50.436 --> 0:05:52.436 I don't give up. I'm going to keep going. 0:05:52.716 --> 0:05:56.396 Yeah. Can you say more about how that inner monologue 0:05:56.436 --> 0:05:58.636 can lead us astray in these moments or what the 0:05:58.676 --> 0:05:59.956 negative consequences can be? 0:06:00.956 --> 0:06:05.476 Yeah, happy to So, first, chatter consumes our attention to 0:06:05.556 --> 0:06:08.556 the point where we have very little left over to 0:06:08.636 --> 0:06:10.636 focus on other things. And so the example I like 0:06:10.676 --> 0:06:13.716 to give people is to think about a time when 0:06:13.756 --> 0:06:15.676 you're worried about something, you're ruminating, and you sit down, 0:06:15.716 --> 0:06:17.036 you try to read a couple of pages in a 0:06:17.036 --> 0:06:19.716 book or a magazine, and you read the pages. You 0:06:19.796 --> 0:06:23.516 are sure, like under oath, you would swear that the 0:06:23.596 --> 0:06:27.196 information has passed your gaze, but you don't remember anything 0:06:27.236 --> 0:06:30.356 that you have read. It is an incredibly common experience, 0:06:30.396 --> 0:06:33.716 and the idea is very very simple. We only have 0:06:33.796 --> 0:06:36.796 so much attention. If all of it is being consumed 0:06:36.796 --> 0:06:39.196 by your chatter, that means not much is left over 0:06:39.316 --> 0:06:42.596 to do your job. Not a good thing. We also 0:06:42.676 --> 0:06:46.436 know that chatter can undo our habits. And the way 0:06:46.476 --> 0:06:50.396 this works is like what is a habit? A habit 0:06:50.476 --> 0:06:54.596 is a complex set of behaviors that are strung together 0:06:54.676 --> 0:06:57.996 through repeated practice. So when I get up on stage 0:06:57.996 --> 0:07:01.076 to give a presentation, I've given hundreds and hundreds of talks. 0:07:01.836 --> 0:07:04.276 I've learned to do things without thinking, like to move 0:07:04.316 --> 0:07:07.196 my hands in particular ways, and vary my vocal tone, 0:07:07.316 --> 0:07:10.396 and smile and look at different people in the audience. 0:07:11.076 --> 0:07:14.796 If I start to worry about what I'm doing, oh 0:07:14.836 --> 0:07:17.916 my god, am I giving a good presentation? What happens 0:07:17.956 --> 0:07:21.436 is I zoom in on all the individual behaviors. Am 0:07:21.436 --> 0:07:22.316 I smiling enough? 0:07:22.436 --> 0:07:22.836 Yeah? 0:07:23.436 --> 0:07:25.876 Am I using the stage appropriately? And once you start 0:07:25.956 --> 0:07:30.236 doing that, the whole script explodes, the behavior explodes. You 0:07:30.236 --> 0:07:33.276 don't do well. And we saw this happen on the 0:07:33.316 --> 0:07:36.996 grandest stage in the Olympics, when Simone Biles dropped out 0:07:37.036 --> 0:07:40.196 because of what she called the twisties. The twisties are 0:07:40.236 --> 0:07:44.156 another name for chatter. Sometimes they're called the yips and 0:07:44.156 --> 0:07:47.916 and if you think about Simone's situation, I think it 0:07:48.076 --> 0:07:52.676 really highlights just how toxic this can be. Here you 0:07:52.756 --> 0:07:57.716 have someone who is on the peak. You know, she's 0:07:57.716 --> 0:07:59.836 at the peak of her career, on the grandest stage. 0:08:00.116 --> 0:08:03.196 Yeah, and she appropriate best in human history as well. 0:08:03.196 --> 0:08:05.956 Best in human history, and she has to drop out 0:08:05.996 --> 0:08:09.436 appropriately because it was dangerous. And so that's what chatter 0:08:09.516 --> 0:08:13.076 can do to us when it comes to our individual performance. 0:08:14.396 --> 0:08:16.676 If we shift to the second domain, we know that 0:08:16.796 --> 0:08:20.436 chatter undermines our relationships. It can create friction, and there 0:08:20.436 --> 0:08:23.156 are a couple of ways that works too. One thing 0:08:23.196 --> 0:08:26.356 that that chatter can do is it can push other 0:08:26.396 --> 0:08:28.956 people who care about us away. And here are the ideas. 0:08:29.276 --> 0:08:33.156 You've got a problem and you're motivated to share it 0:08:33.196 --> 0:08:35.716 with other people for a variety of reasons. You want 0:08:35.756 --> 0:08:38.836 to get support. But what happens is you talk to 0:08:38.836 --> 0:08:41.316 the other person about the problem, and then you keep 0:08:41.356 --> 0:08:44.956 talking about it over and over and over again. And 0:08:45.196 --> 0:08:47.436 for most of us, there's only so much we can 0:08:47.516 --> 0:08:52.276 listen to before we ourselves start to get brought down. 0:08:52.796 --> 0:08:55.316 And so that's one of the ways that that chatter 0:08:55.356 --> 0:08:57.916 can alienate us from others lead us to feel socially 0:08:57.956 --> 0:09:02.676 rejected and alone. These are not not healthy states. 0:09:03.196 --> 0:09:07.716 Okay, so we need some hope, Ethan. You got to 0:09:07.716 --> 0:09:09.796 help us out here, all right. I'd love to do 0:09:09.836 --> 0:09:11.836 a deep dive in some of the strategies we can 0:09:11.956 --> 0:09:13.476 use for better managing our chatter. 0:09:13.796 --> 0:09:14.156 Yeah. 0:09:14.436 --> 0:09:17.476 So I'll tell you about two of my favorites, which 0:09:17.996 --> 0:09:21.956 also happen to be two tools that I use myself 0:09:22.036 --> 0:09:24.836 if I experienced shadow. They're my first lines of defense. 0:09:25.156 --> 0:09:25.636 I love it. 0:09:26.356 --> 0:09:31.356 The first one is maybe counterintuitive to folks. What it 0:09:31.436 --> 0:09:36.076 involves doing is trying to coach yourself through a problem 0:09:36.556 --> 0:09:39.916 using your own name or the second person pronound you. So, 0:09:39.996 --> 0:09:44.716 if I'm really upset about something and spinning, all right, Ethan, 0:09:45.276 --> 0:09:46.956 here's what you're going to do. Here's how you're going 0:09:46.996 --> 0:09:51.596 to manage the situation. I'm basically talking to myself like 0:09:51.636 --> 0:09:54.956 I would speak to another person, right, the second person 0:09:55.036 --> 0:09:57.516 pronound you. This is a part of speech that we 0:09:57.636 --> 0:10:01.516 almost exclusively use when we think about and refer to 0:10:01.596 --> 0:10:05.316 other people. That shifts your perspective. It puts you into 0:10:05.356 --> 0:10:07.956 this different mode of thinking about your problems. It's like 0:10:07.956 --> 0:10:10.556 you're giving advice to your best fri and when you're 0:10:10.596 --> 0:10:14.076 in that mode of advice giving, you come up with 0:10:14.196 --> 0:10:17.516 much better solutions to your problems. So that's a really 0:10:17.556 --> 0:10:21.116 simple thing that people can do to switch their perspectives. 0:10:21.116 --> 0:10:24.236 And that's the first thing that I'll do. Another distancing 0:10:24.316 --> 0:10:27.596 tool that is really easy and works for many situations 0:10:27.636 --> 0:10:32.156 is something that we call temporal distancing, or thinking about 0:10:32.156 --> 0:10:35.516 how you're going to feel about something that's causing you 0:10:35.596 --> 0:10:37.356 chatter right now? How are you going to feel about 0:10:37.356 --> 0:10:40.236 this a week from now, or a month from now 0:10:40.396 --> 0:10:42.756 or a year from now. Right, You could stretch out 0:10:42.796 --> 0:10:46.116 the time window as much as you want. What engaging 0:10:46.156 --> 0:10:49.996 in that little mental time travel exercise does for us 0:10:50.316 --> 0:10:53.436 is it often makes clear that whatever we're dealing with, 0:10:53.476 --> 0:10:57.236 as awful as it is, it will eventually fade, because 0:10:57.356 --> 0:11:00.996 most of the trials and tribulations we experience do eventually 0:11:01.036 --> 0:11:04.196 fade with time, and that gives us hope, which is 0:11:04.516 --> 0:11:07.396 really useful for managing chatter. This is actually what I 0:11:07.436 --> 0:11:10.436 do when I wake up on occasion two am and 0:11:11.196 --> 0:11:14.436 am grippe, Oh my god, why did I send that email? 0:11:14.476 --> 0:11:15.436 And what are they going to think? 0:11:15.476 --> 0:11:15.996 Did they read? 0:11:16.356 --> 0:11:19.996 So I will just remind myself Ethan, You're going to 0:11:20.036 --> 0:11:21.636 feel better about this in six hours. 0:11:22.636 --> 0:11:24.836 I'm hearing you say that, and I'm thinking to myself that, 0:11:24.876 --> 0:11:27.356 in my most anxious moments, if you had asked me, 0:11:27.996 --> 0:11:30.676 how are you going to feel about this in six months, 0:11:30.756 --> 0:11:32.956 or five years, or ten years, I would have said, 0:11:33.276 --> 0:11:35.916 I'm going to feel exactly the same damn way, Ethan. 0:11:36.316 --> 0:11:38.196 And so what's occurring to me in this moment is 0:11:38.196 --> 0:11:42.516 that potentially another healthful thought experiment is to think about 0:11:42.596 --> 0:11:45.756 past experiences where we felt a certain way and we're 0:11:45.836 --> 0:11:49.036 absolutely convinced that that was going to be a immutable 0:11:49.036 --> 0:11:51.796 state of the world, but looking back, we now know 0:11:51.916 --> 0:11:53.916 we no longer feel that same way about it today. 0:11:55.156 --> 0:11:57.756 I'm just remembering how there was this thing that I 0:11:57.796 --> 0:12:00.556 was worrying about in my early twenties, and I was 0:12:01.196 --> 0:12:03.596 imposing a lot of negativity of my brother, who was 0:12:03.596 --> 0:12:06.796 on the receiving end of all this anxiety to your 0:12:06.836 --> 0:12:10.796 earlier point, and I remember him saying, I promise you, 0:12:10.916 --> 0:12:12.556 this is not going to be a topic you're worried 0:12:12.556 --> 0:12:15.196 about in ten years. And I was absolutely resolute in 0:12:15.196 --> 0:12:17.036 my convictions that it was going to be something that 0:12:17.076 --> 0:12:20.836 I continue to worry about and you know, older brother, 0:12:20.956 --> 0:12:21.596 wiser than me. 0:12:21.996 --> 0:12:22.476 He's right. 0:12:22.716 --> 0:12:25.476 I no longer am worried about this issue, and I 0:12:25.756 --> 0:12:28.836 keep that in my mind often as a personal anecdote 0:12:29.316 --> 0:12:33.836 of how I engaged in bad cognitive forecasting. I was 0:12:33.916 --> 0:12:36.516 wrong about myself and my own ability to be able 0:12:36.596 --> 0:12:39.196 to move on from certain challenges or anxieties. And I 0:12:39.236 --> 0:12:42.836 think it's helpful, potentially helpful for listeners to identify. You know, 0:12:42.876 --> 0:12:45.156 there's the Spanish flu, which is like the global thing, 0:12:45.276 --> 0:12:48.916 but you know, we all have some element of narcissism 0:12:48.996 --> 0:12:52.156 in us that leads us to want to know that actually. 0:12:51.996 --> 0:12:53.196 Narcissm is the wrong word here. 0:12:53.236 --> 0:12:57.636 I think we can feel sometimes like society might be 0:12:57.676 --> 0:12:59.796 able to deal with this, but I maya won't be 0:12:59.836 --> 0:13:02.556 able to because I'm not as cognitively strong as other people. 0:13:02.556 --> 0:13:03.796 And so I think it can be helpful to just 0:13:03.836 --> 0:13:07.756 find even one instance, one case study from your own 0:13:07.796 --> 0:13:11.276 life where you did actually exit a state of mental 0:13:11.356 --> 0:13:14.436 chatter successfully and think differently about it so that you 0:13:14.436 --> 0:13:16.716 can hold on to because it helps me in present 0:13:16.756 --> 0:13:18.236 day moments where I'm like, no, I'm still gonna be 0:13:18.276 --> 0:13:20.436 worried about this thing now in ten years, and I'm 0:13:20.476 --> 0:13:22.596 like eh, you're wrong about this, at least once. 0:13:23.916 --> 0:13:27.516 You've actually touched on something that is. I think another 0:13:27.556 --> 0:13:30.636 message of hope for listeners, which is there's a lot 0:13:30.636 --> 0:13:32.676 of research which shows that as we get older, we 0:13:32.756 --> 0:13:36.676 actually get happier barring negative health conditions. And one of 0:13:36.676 --> 0:13:39.796 the explanations for why that happens is we're learning how 0:13:39.836 --> 0:13:42.956 to regulate ourselves better. And part of how that works 0:13:43.036 --> 0:13:45.316 is we're learning from our experiences. And I think this 0:13:45.356 --> 0:13:48.396 is exactly what you've described. When you're younger, you don't 0:13:48.396 --> 0:13:52.556 have the same quantity of experiences. You don't know that 0:13:52.876 --> 0:13:54.716 you're not going to be worried about this ten years 0:13:54.796 --> 0:13:57.956 later because you may not have been around for that long. 0:13:57.996 --> 0:14:01.716 And so I think we accrue that wisdom with age. 0:14:01.876 --> 0:14:06.316 And what's exciting about some of these tools is they 0:14:06.356 --> 0:14:10.316 have the potential to give us that insight without having 0:14:10.356 --> 0:14:14.676 to wait to be forty sixty, seventy years old, right, 0:14:14.716 --> 0:14:16.516 So we can have the insight that, oh, wait, it 0:14:16.556 --> 0:14:20.276 will get better with time without having to wait the 0:14:20.276 --> 0:14:23.316 whole stretch of time for that to happen. So it's 0:14:23.316 --> 0:14:25.876 a really valuable exercise for folks to think about. 0:14:27.356 --> 0:14:30.916 That was psychologist Ethan Cross. I'll be talking to Ethan 0:14:30.956 --> 0:14:33.756 again about his latest book, which is all about how 0:14:33.796 --> 0:14:36.996 to better manage our emotions. Make sure to follow a 0:14:36.996 --> 0:14:39.836 slight change of plans on your favorite podcast app so 0:14:39.876 --> 0:14:42.476 you can catch that episode when it comes out next month. 0:14:44.836 --> 0:14:47.956 After the break, we'll hear from Madupey Aquinola on how 0:14:47.996 --> 0:14:51.116 we can work with our stress rather than against it. 0:14:59.916 --> 0:15:03.596 Madupay Aquinola is a psychologist who's an expert on something 0:15:03.676 --> 0:15:07.716 that most of us try to limit as much as possible, stress, 0:15:08.316 --> 0:15:11.996 but a different perspective. She wants us to make stress 0:15:12.076 --> 0:15:15.916 our friend because our body's stress response is actually a 0:15:15.996 --> 0:15:20.116 kind of superpower on a physiological level. Can you tell 0:15:20.196 --> 0:15:23.076 us what happens to us when we experience stress? 0:15:23.516 --> 0:15:29.036 So when we experience stress, our sympathetic nervous system gets activated. 0:15:29.716 --> 0:15:32.756 It's that part of our body that tells us do 0:15:32.796 --> 0:15:34.836 you need to fight or do you need to flee 0:15:34.876 --> 0:15:39.756 this situation? And when that happens, we get adrenaline, we 0:15:39.836 --> 0:15:44.636 get dopamine, we get cortisol, all of the resources we 0:15:44.716 --> 0:15:48.916 need physiologically to move to act to do what we 0:15:48.996 --> 0:15:52.996 need to do. This process is a very adaptive one, 0:15:53.076 --> 0:15:55.876 so that when you're done with the stressor ideally your 0:15:55.876 --> 0:15:59.076 body wants to go back to its resting state where 0:15:59.116 --> 0:16:02.476 you know, those hormones decrease, that adrenaline decreased, you get 0:16:02.516 --> 0:16:05.396 back to resting and relaxing and all that. That is 0:16:05.476 --> 0:16:09.556 a normal physiological response to an acute dresser. 0:16:10.876 --> 0:16:13.556 Yeah, I love your sharing that because stress obviously gets 0:16:13.556 --> 0:16:16.676 a really bad rep but it's not just this random 0:16:16.756 --> 0:16:19.516 bad thing that our bodies experience. It exists in part 0:16:19.596 --> 0:16:23.796 because it is highly adaptive and there are many situations 0:16:23.836 --> 0:16:26.836 in which an active stress response helps us do what 0:16:26.916 --> 0:16:31.916 needs to be done. So, in other words, you mentioned cortisol, dopamine, adrenaline. 0:16:32.156 --> 0:16:36.756 How do those translate into increased performance increased acuity? Just 0:16:36.796 --> 0:16:38.276 help me build that bridge. 0:16:38.476 --> 0:16:42.436 So essentially, your body is being taxed and your heart 0:16:42.516 --> 0:16:46.556 rate is increasing because again you're getting ready. That cortisol 0:16:46.636 --> 0:16:49.396 is giving you the energy that you need to be attentive, 0:16:49.756 --> 0:16:53.916 to be focused to approach the situation. And when you 0:16:53.916 --> 0:16:57.036 have increased cortisol, you are attentive to threats, often in 0:16:57.076 --> 0:16:59.956 a good way. You're like waiting for what's happening. You're 0:17:00.196 --> 0:17:03.036 able to remember things in a different way, and so 0:17:03.516 --> 0:17:06.836 we need to remember when our bodies are acting. It's 0:17:06.916 --> 0:17:11.396 telling us you've got this, now, let's use this. But 0:17:11.516 --> 0:17:15.516 one of the problems is when we can be overactivated 0:17:15.836 --> 0:17:20.276 and too attentive to threat and those levels of the dopamine, 0:17:20.276 --> 0:17:24.236 the cordis the adrenaline all that are staying elevated kind 0:17:24.236 --> 0:17:28.796 of chronically, and that is what leads to disease and 0:17:28.956 --> 0:17:31.756 all of these problems that we want to avoid physiologically. 0:17:31.996 --> 0:17:33.756 So that's kind of the stress cycle. 0:17:34.556 --> 0:17:36.196 Okay, So now you've given us the lay of the 0:17:36.276 --> 0:17:40.036 land on the basics of stress. Yes, one fascinating thing 0:17:40.316 --> 0:17:44.276 your research focuses on is that how we think about 0:17:44.316 --> 0:17:47.556 our own stress, our mindset, and our attitude towards stress 0:17:48.036 --> 0:17:50.956 can actually change its impact on us. Yes, can you 0:17:50.996 --> 0:17:53.916 first walk us through the two types of mindsets that 0:17:53.956 --> 0:17:55.196 we can have towards stress. 0:17:55.756 --> 0:17:58.396 So the two types of mindsets are a mindset that 0:17:58.436 --> 0:18:01.876 stress is enhancing, it can help us in terms of 0:18:01.916 --> 0:18:07.036 our performance, our growth, our learning. The second piece is 0:18:07.076 --> 0:18:10.516 that stress is debilitating, harms us in terms of our 0:18:10.596 --> 0:18:13.476 health and vitality and our performance and our growth in 0:18:13.516 --> 0:18:18.156 our learning. And it's often your mindset about stress that 0:18:18.196 --> 0:18:21.076 can influence the extent to which it can have harmful 0:18:21.156 --> 0:18:24.596 or helpful effects. So when we have more of a 0:18:24.676 --> 0:18:29.036 stress is enhancing mindset that leads to better outcomes. 0:18:29.676 --> 0:18:31.036 I love this research. 0:18:31.276 --> 0:18:33.396 I'm wondering if you can give me a couple of 0:18:33.436 --> 0:18:38.036 examples of how introducing this mindset shift was actually able 0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:39.996 to help performance in different contexts. 0:18:40.236 --> 0:18:44.076 So in one study, we had people just watch a 0:18:44.156 --> 0:18:47.836 video showing the many ways in which stress can be enhancing. 0:18:48.076 --> 0:18:50.996 You can imagine things like that stressful moment in a 0:18:51.076 --> 0:18:54.196 soccer game and somebody makes the goal. We can each 0:18:54.236 --> 0:18:56.356 think of times when we have risen to the occasion. 0:18:56.716 --> 0:18:59.796 When we show people these videos and then have them 0:18:59.836 --> 0:19:03.436 engage in a creative task, we find that they're more creative. 0:19:03.836 --> 0:19:06.396 We find that they are more attentive to positive things 0:19:06.476 --> 0:19:10.276 in the environment versus negative things in the vironment. On 0:19:10.316 --> 0:19:13.116 the flip side, tell people or show them videos of 0:19:13.316 --> 0:19:16.716 when stress can be debilitating and see the opposite, they're 0:19:16.836 --> 0:19:22.516 less creative and also generally more negative mood, more attentive 0:19:22.556 --> 0:19:25.516 to threats. So that's some of the research we've done. 0:19:25.676 --> 0:19:28.356 Yeah, and one of the most fascinating insights is that 0:19:28.916 --> 0:19:32.516 our underlying physiology can change when we adopt a stress 0:19:32.556 --> 0:19:35.676 is enhancing mindset. So it's not just that I think 0:19:35.756 --> 0:19:39.396 more positive thoughts. It actually can affect our physiological response 0:19:39.436 --> 0:19:41.596 to stress at this underlying level. 0:19:42.036 --> 0:19:44.796 I think that that's absolutely right, that when you have 0:19:44.876 --> 0:19:48.956 an enhancing mindset, it can affect your body's response to stress. 0:19:49.436 --> 0:19:52.636 There has been research showing that the walls of your 0:19:52.636 --> 0:19:56.636 blood vessels, rather than constricting, they're more likely to dilate 0:19:56.756 --> 0:20:00.236 with a stress is enhancing mindset and the importance of 0:20:00.276 --> 0:20:03.596 the mind body connection is something I think we often forget. 0:20:03.916 --> 0:20:06.596 And you know, our dominant model and narrative is that 0:20:06.636 --> 0:20:11.556 we should deny, reduce and avoid stress, and that is 0:20:11.716 --> 0:20:15.756 not always the case. Every single person I know can 0:20:15.796 --> 0:20:20.076 tell of the time where their stress helps them. So instead, 0:20:20.116 --> 0:20:21.876 in this research we talk a lot about how can 0:20:22.076 --> 0:20:25.716 you acknowledge your stress, welcome your stress, and use it 0:20:25.796 --> 0:20:28.676 in a way that will be beneficial because it is 0:20:28.836 --> 0:20:31.956 designed to help you. Now, it's important to say, I'm 0:20:31.956 --> 0:20:34.916 not saying run towards stress, like you shouldn't like find 0:20:34.996 --> 0:20:38.396 more stressors. No, that's not what we're saying. We're saying 0:20:39.036 --> 0:20:41.396 it's not always a bad thing. It's actually designed to 0:20:41.436 --> 0:20:41.796 help you. 0:20:43.076 --> 0:20:46.436 Yeah, you talk about dating your stress, Yes, you know 0:20:46.516 --> 0:20:49.316 slight change listeners. We're simply asking for a first date. Okay, 0:20:49.316 --> 0:20:50.956 you can decide if you want to do a second 0:20:51.036 --> 0:20:52.836 or a third, but just go on that first date. 0:20:52.956 --> 0:20:53.756 That's right. 0:20:53.996 --> 0:20:56.236 Get to know your stress a little better and brace 0:20:56.276 --> 0:20:56.636 it and. 0:20:56.636 --> 0:20:59.436 Be kind to it. Open the door for it, you know, 0:20:59.636 --> 0:21:03.196 let it in, welcome it, see how it feels. That's 0:21:03.196 --> 0:21:04.956 what we need to do a lot more of. 0:21:05.756 --> 0:21:09.076 Are there situations where applying a stress is enhancing mind 0:21:09.236 --> 0:21:13.076 set doesn't make sense because I can see a situation 0:21:13.156 --> 0:21:16.516 where if we apply this mindset too liberally, we might 0:21:16.636 --> 0:21:20.316 end up tolerating certain stressful situations that we really should 0:21:20.356 --> 0:21:24.516 try and avoid. So, for example, a highly toxic relationship 0:21:24.596 --> 0:21:26.756 at work or in your personal life, that's a situation 0:21:26.796 --> 0:21:29.156 where you're kind of you really think, okay, we need 0:21:29.196 --> 0:21:31.036 to change the situation. I need to get out of 0:21:31.036 --> 0:21:34.116 this situation, versus using a mindset shift in order to 0:21:34.116 --> 0:21:34.996 better adapt to it. 0:21:35.036 --> 0:21:36.036 So do you have thoughts on that? 0:21:36.516 --> 0:21:40.476 Yeah? I do think that our minds are so complicated 0:21:40.516 --> 0:21:43.316 and we will trick ourselves into believing a stressful situation 0:21:43.436 --> 0:21:45.836 is a good one when it's not. So that's when 0:21:45.876 --> 0:21:49.076 the idea, Remember I talked about demands resources. One resource 0:21:49.116 --> 0:21:52.876 is external support, your friends helping you and seeing when 0:21:52.916 --> 0:21:55.396 something is harmful versus helpful for you. 0:21:55.996 --> 0:21:57.876 Yeah, I think it's helpful to clarify that this is 0:21:57.916 --> 0:22:00.396 a mindset that's almost best to adopt when you're in 0:22:00.476 --> 0:22:03.036 situations where you can't avoid the stress, so you can't 0:22:03.076 --> 0:22:07.196 control whether that situation exists or not, and so adopting 0:22:07.196 --> 0:22:09.636 a more positive mindset might be one of the few 0:22:09.676 --> 0:22:10.596 resources at hand. 0:22:10.876 --> 0:22:14.076 That's absolutely right. And the challenge with the dominant narrative 0:22:14.156 --> 0:22:16.876 about reducing or avoiding stress is that there are times 0:22:16.876 --> 0:22:20.916 where we cannot do that. You can't, it's not possible. 0:22:21.116 --> 0:22:25.156 So that's why it's important to understand how the stress 0:22:25.196 --> 0:22:29.196