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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from House Supports

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline and Caroline. This episode highlighting Black women

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Speaker 1: of the suffrage movement is really appropriate timing wise because

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Speaker 1: it's coming out the last week of February, so the

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Speaker 1: last week of Black History Month, leading us into Women's

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Speaker 1: History Month. So in my mind, this episode is perhaps

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Speaker 1: a a bridge between those two months, because there should

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Speaker 1: really be a lot more intermingling of the two, especially

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Speaker 1: after the research that we did for the podcast a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago on Susan B. Anthony, Right. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things that became very clear over the

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Speaker 1: course of our research into Susan B. Anthony, her life

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Speaker 1: and her work and her single mindedness when it came

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Speaker 1: to the women's rights movement and women's suffrage was that

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Speaker 1: there were several important names in black suffrage history who

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Speaker 1: were essentially overlooked. Yeah, and not only that. One thing

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Speaker 1: that's often left out of the evolution of the women's

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Speaker 1: rights movement is that, in a lot of ways, it

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Speaker 1: grew directly out of the abolition movement. Yeah, efforts towards

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Speaker 1: abolition were really the first opportunities in the first times

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Speaker 1: that women gathered in support of a social effort and

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Speaker 1: really banded together. And not only did they band together,

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Speaker 1: but they started kind of publicly organizing and publicly getting

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Speaker 1: out there and writing and donating and agitating for a cause. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't just white women like Elizabeth Katie Stanton

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Speaker 1: and Susan B. Anthony who were getting involved in these causes.

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Speaker 1: For instance, if you go all the way back to

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Speaker 1: eighteen thirty two, you have, for instance, black women in Salem, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 1: who were forming an anti slavery society and that was

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Speaker 1: followed up by a similar movement in Rhode Island of

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Speaker 1: the same year. And many more of these anti slavery

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Speaker 1: groups that were organized by black women would follow. But

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Speaker 1: we should note that a lot of those societies were

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Speaker 1: short lived, right. And while the abolition movement was already

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Speaker 1: kind of alive and well and thriving in Europe and

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Speaker 1: England in particular, in America, the number of suffragists grew

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Speaker 1: slowly out of this abolition movement um particularly in the Northeast,

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Speaker 1: and it it did become more diversified nationwide, and through

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Speaker 1: this growth and diversification, it really was how women sort

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Speaker 1: of learned about reform efforts and started participating. So, for instance,

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Speaker 1: in eighteen thirty three, you have an vention held in

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia that was meeting to establish the American Anti Slavery Society,

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Speaker 1: and this was led by white abolitionist William Lord Garrison.

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Speaker 1: And it's significant because not only were they talking about

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Speaker 1: abolition and the need to free slaves, but also the

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Speaker 1: need to uh empower women along the way. Right, they

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Speaker 1: actually passed a resolution commending the abolition caused to women

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Speaker 1: and urging them to organize groups UH made up of women.

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Speaker 1: And by eighteen thirty seven, there were more than one

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Speaker 1: thousand of these anti Slavery Society groups, and about seventy

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Speaker 1: five of them not somehow, I mean, not a huge number,

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Speaker 1: but about seventy five of them consisted of women. And

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Speaker 1: it's important that Kristen noted that this American Anti Slavery

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Speaker 1: Society was led by William Lloyd Garrison, because there were

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Speaker 1: folks out there called Garrisonians, um. And these these folks

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Speaker 1: didn't necessarily oppose women's suffrage, but they emphasized instead the

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Speaker 1: right of women to gain equal access to things like

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Speaker 1: education and employment and particularly equality within marriage, the family,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. They also believed in things like the married

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Speaker 1: women's rights to property, wages, control over her own body,

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Speaker 1: and custody of her children. And a very important figure

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Speaker 1: in this movement was Lucretia Mott. She was a Garrisonian

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Speaker 1: who also in eighteen thirty three took the lead informing

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Speaker 1: her own group, the Philadelphia Female Anti Slavery Society, and

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Speaker 1: that society was racially integrated as well, and among its

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Speaker 1: members you have notable black women abolitionists like Grace Bustle

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Speaker 1: Douglas and her daughter Sarah Maps Douglas, as well as

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Speaker 1: Margaretta and Sarah Forton and Harriett Forton Purvis, who were

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Speaker 1: daughters of a prosperous Philadelphia salemaker. And I think their

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Speaker 1: their names will probably come up again in our conversation.

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Speaker 1: But one other thing I wanted to point out to

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Speaker 1: about the American Anti Slavery Society is that one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons that they really advocated for abolishing slavery, I mean,

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Speaker 1: on so many different levels, but they also focused particularly

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Speaker 1: on the sexual abuse of slave women as one of

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Speaker 1: the you know, the main reasons why slavery needed to stop,

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Speaker 1: and thinking about that in the context of past podcasts

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Speaker 1: in which we've talked Caroline about um, how that that

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Speaker 1: issue of black women and sexual abuse, and how for

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Speaker 1: so long that wasn't even considered a crime, um, and

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Speaker 1: how progressive that would be in the eighteen thirties for

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Speaker 1: these Garrisonians to be taking that stance right, particularly since,

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Speaker 1: as we have talked about before, kind of the overarching

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Speaker 1: view of black women at the time by both black men,

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Speaker 1: white men, and white women was that they were just

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Speaker 1: these over hyper sexualized beings who like, oh, well, that's okay,

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Speaker 1: we don't really need to worry about that. So the

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Speaker 1: view of black women at the time was was so negative,

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Speaker 1: and they were sort of the victims of both sexism

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Speaker 1: and racism all at the same time, which also lends

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Speaker 1: even more significance to this early intersection of black and

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Speaker 1: white abolitionist male and female working alongside each other not

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Speaker 1: only for the freedom and enfranchisement of slaves, but also

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Speaker 1: for women as well. And so speaking of that, some

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Speaker 1: historians actually say that the real spark of first wave

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Speaker 1: feminism starts not with Seneca Falls, as we will mention

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Speaker 1: in a moment, but in eighteen thirty eight at the

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Speaker 1: Anti Slavery Convention of American Women, and they had to

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Speaker 1: build an actual convention hall specifically for this event because

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Speaker 1: a lot of members of the white public in particular,

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Speaker 1: were outraged at this event taking place, and there were

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Speaker 1: like angry mobs outside. And you have women at this convention,

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Speaker 1: including Maria W. Chapman and Angelina Grimkey Weld speaking to

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Speaker 1: crowds of men and women alike, which is a rarity

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Speaker 1: in these days. And you also have black and white

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Speaker 1: people who had attended this convention walking arm in arm

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Speaker 1: outside of Pennsylvania Hall where it took place, in order

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Speaker 1: to protect, in particular, the black women inside who had

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Speaker 1: attended from these angry, angry people, angry races. We should

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Speaker 1: just go ahead and say outside, who did not want

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Speaker 1: this to be happening. And I don't think it was

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Speaker 1: that year. Wasn't it the following year that building was

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Speaker 1: actually burned down by an angry mob who was just

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Speaker 1: so incensed by the idea of black and white people

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Speaker 1: gathering together for this cause. Yeah, um, well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. Also, you know, you mentioned Angelina Grimkey. I

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Speaker 1: I really find it interesting to kind of watch the

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Speaker 1: evolution of the women's rights movement alongside abolition in things

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Speaker 1: that grim Key herself said, because you know, toward this

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Speaker 1: cause of abolition and enfranchising African Americans to vote, you know,

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Speaker 1: she also encourages women to move out of their sphere,

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Speaker 1: their domestic sphere um and no longer remains satisfied in

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Speaker 1: the circumscribed limits. She said that it's the duty of

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Speaker 1: the woman to overthrow the horrible system of American slavery.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see that leaders in this movement

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Speaker 1: at this time are basically calling on women to throw

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Speaker 1: off these their own chains that you know, their own

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Speaker 1: social situation and really uh put there all of their

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Speaker 1: force behind this movement. So they're very much parallel at

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Speaker 1: this time. Yeah, And so that leads us into the

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Speaker 1: Seneca Falls Convention in July, which is usually the event

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Speaker 1: that is referenced as the start of the suffrage movement

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Speaker 1: in the United States, organized largely by Elizabeth Katy Stanton

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Speaker 1: and Susan B. Anthony. And we should note though that

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Speaker 1: this is when you start to see some glaring disparities

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Speaker 1: between uh, white women's suffrage and black women's causes. Because yes,

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Speaker 1: it was attended by Frederick Douglas, famed Black abolitionist, and

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Speaker 1: he became the first man to publicly advocate for women's suffrage.

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Speaker 1: But he was the only African American in attendance at

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Speaker 1: the Seneca Convention. So it wasn't exactly even though they

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, Frederick Douglas fantastic, it wasn't exactly you know,

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Speaker 1: the most racially integrated crowd. Yeah, exactly. And um, I

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Speaker 1: mean speaking of loan voices and racial integration, when you

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Speaker 1: look at Sojourner Truth, I mean, that's a name that

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Speaker 1: everyone knows, it's a common name from this era, but

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Speaker 1: her name is kind of alone in all of these sources.

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Speaker 1: A lot of other women of the day, like we said,

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Speaker 1: have been kind of scrubbed from the record. And in

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifties, so not too long after the Seneca Falls Convention,

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Speaker 1: you have the first Massachusetts Women's Rights Convention, which sojournal

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Speaker 1: Truth attended and it was documented, but you know, other

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Speaker 1: African American women's voices were not readily documented. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: even though we hear about so journal Truth so often

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Speaker 1: today that I think the assumption would be made that

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Speaker 1: you'd be readily welcomed by these more progressive crowds of women.

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Speaker 1: But even speaking before white women who might be pro suffrage,

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Speaker 1: they weren't always too inclined to have her speaking in

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Speaker 1: front of them, right, Because if you look at an

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty one convention in Ohio, uh SO journal Truth

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Speaker 1: ended up speaking on behalf of all women in her speech,

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Speaker 1: not just African Americ women or not just slaved And

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Speaker 1: this was despite the fact that a lot of white

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Speaker 1: women at that Ohio convention actually did try to prevent

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Speaker 1: her from speaking in This kind of stemmed out of

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Speaker 1: the fear that she would hurt the movement if she

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Speaker 1: spoke before a hostile audience, because you know, in our

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Speaker 1: Susan B. Anthony episode, we talk a lot about the

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Speaker 1: single mindedness. We talk a lot about how it was

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Speaker 1: women's suffrage or nothing like, nothing can get in the way.

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Speaker 1: We don't want anything to hurt the movement or distract

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Speaker 1: anyone from the our purpose, which is women's suffrage will

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Speaker 1: in their case mostly white women's suffrage. So there was

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Speaker 1: this fear that if you have a former slave and

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Speaker 1: a woman, an African American woman, get up in front

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Speaker 1: of these people and their hostile it could sort of

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Speaker 1: muddy the message when in fact, at that convention, so

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Speaker 1: journal truth earned long and loud cheers. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: should also know that happened in one and the year before,

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Speaker 1: I mean, racial tensions in the United States were starting

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Speaker 1: to hit such a boiling point, partially due to the

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifty passage of the Fugitive Slave Act, which in

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Speaker 1: a nutshell, essentially empowered slave owners in the South to

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Speaker 1: pursue slaves who might have escaped to areas in the

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Speaker 1: North where they could find refuge. And uh, it's horrifying

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Speaker 1: that that law was passed. But that's set off this

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Speaker 1: um I hate to keep using the word tension, but

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Speaker 1: it's like it's set off this divisiveness between abolition and suffrage.

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Speaker 1: And you see, it's especially in the period from eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty to eighteen seventy, this gradual separation of white suffrage

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Speaker 1: from abolition and suffrage for black women. And just quickly

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Speaker 1: highly recommend if you want to learn more about this topic,

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Speaker 1: checking out the book by Rosalind turbourg Pen called African

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Speaker 1: American Women and the Ruggle for the Vote from eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty to nineteen twenty that really digs deep into this

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Speaker 1: topic and even though you know, we've been talking a

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Speaker 1: lot about, for instance, Angelina Grimkey Weld and other white

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Speaker 1: abolitionists and white suffrage leaders. There were other people in

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Speaker 1: addition to so journal Truth as early as the eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifties and beyond, doing lots of organizing and having leadership

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Speaker 1: positions in you know, either suffrage groups or in abolition groups. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when starting in the early to mid eighteen fifties, black

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Speaker 1: women's participation in the movement really become became more evident.

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Speaker 1: Their voices were heard kind of above the din We

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Speaker 1: have the women who we mentioned earlier, Harriet Forton Purvis

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Speaker 1: and her sister, educator and abolitionist, Margaretta Forton, who emerged

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Speaker 1: as major voices during this time, and their niece, Charlotte

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Speaker 1: Forton Jr. Was actually introduced to the movement in eighteen

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Speaker 1: fifty five. She was being educated at the time in

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Speaker 1: Salem because black students in her hometown of Philadelphia were

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Speaker 1: denied admit into public schools, and she was living in

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Speaker 1: Salem at the time with a Riemon family who were

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Speaker 1: noted black abolitionists, and the Reemons themselves were highly involved

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Speaker 1: in In In eighteen fifty eight, Sarah Reemond and her brother

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Speaker 1: Charles spoke in New York at a women's rights conference

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Speaker 1: in favor of women's suffrage. So there again we see

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Speaker 1: the intersection of abolition and UH women's rights. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then you also have immigrationists Mary Ann Shad Carry who

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Speaker 1: joined the movement, and immigrationists, I should say, were people

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Speaker 1: who advocated for UH slaves or free black people just

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Speaker 1: moving out of the United States completely. If I'm correct,

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Speaker 1: they were more they were more on the radical end

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Speaker 1: of the spectrum. But Carry was a powerful woman in

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Speaker 1: her own right. She ran the anti slavery paper, The

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Speaker 1: Provincial Freeman, in which she and her sister Amelia Shad

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Speaker 1: printed news items about women's struggle both against slavery and

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Speaker 1: gender discrimination. Um. And they also for instance, reported favorably

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Speaker 1: on Lucy Stones, you know white suffrage leaders nineteen four

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Speaker 1: visit to Toronto and also received donations from Lucretia Mott,

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Speaker 1: another white suffrage leader for the publication of The Provincial

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Speaker 1: Freeman as well. But unfortunately, due to the gender discrimination

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Speaker 1: of the time, a lot of readers were weren't too

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Speaker 1: keen on women editors, women newspaper editors. Yeah, that's so

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Speaker 1: funny that amid all of these contentious fights going on,

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Speaker 1: these battles for equality, the problem is that they're women. Editor. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that did not stop Marianne shad Carry from attending

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Speaker 1: women's suffrage conventions and campaigning for women's rights over the

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Speaker 1: next twenty five years, right. And in eighteen fifty nine,

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Speaker 1: you see this, uh coalescing of the movement as evidenced

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Speaker 1: by the New England Convention of Colored Citizens. And during

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Speaker 1: the conference, women were elected to leadership positions, and the

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Speaker 1: convention resulted in a call for universal suffrage. And so

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifties you do really see this compatibility

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Speaker 1: between the politics of black abolitionists, both male and female.

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Speaker 1: And it's uh, you know, really notable too that again

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Speaker 1: you have that female leadership not just within more suffrage

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Speaker 1: oriented groups, but also among abolitionists and immigrationists. So at

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Speaker 1: the same time that we see the black abolition movement

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Speaker 1: coalescing among both men and women, you also have more

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Speaker 1: white women starting to take active political action as abolitionists.

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Speaker 1: And as we said, it was this abolition movement that

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Speaker 1: kind of gave birth to the political push for women's

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Speaker 1: suffrage and women's rights. And these early women tended to

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Speaker 1: be a lot more radical in their attempts to oppose

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Speaker 1: gender conventions by moving outside of their year as as

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Speaker 1: Grimkey encouraged them to do, and acting independently. And author

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Speaker 1: Bettina app Sicker also points out in her writing that

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Speaker 1: this intersection of abolition and women's rights fights, both of

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Speaker 1: which were revolutionary, tended to reinforce the radicalism of each movement.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we would be remiss to skip over

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Speaker 1: the fact that there were a lot fewer limits placed

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Speaker 1: on white women in terms of both time and effort

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Speaker 1: and ability to focus on these political movements. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: hear the word intersectionality being tossed around a lot more

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Speaker 1: often these days in terms of how you really can't

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Speaker 1: untangle how you know, gender collides with race, collides with

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Speaker 1: economic status and ability and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: And that's not a new thing. This was going on

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Speaker 1: way back in the nineteenth century when these first movements

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Speaker 1: were starting to gain momentum, And you can't deny that

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Speaker 1: even back then, there was plenty of white privilege yield

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Speaker 1: privilege happening in terms of how a lot of the

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Speaker 1: white women involved in these movements were often middle class

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Speaker 1: or elite women who typically weren't working outside the home

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Speaker 1: and so they had more time to devote to their causes. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And they also didn't have to contend as much with

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Speaker 1: issues like poverty or illiteracy that were often direct issues

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Speaker 1: for people coming out of slavery. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: you do start to see this erosion between white women

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Speaker 1: and the cause of black suffrage. And we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: more into that and talk about more significant black suffrage

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Speaker 1: leaders at the time when we come right back from

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Speaker 1: a quick break and now back to the show. So

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Speaker 1: when we last left off in this conversation about black

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Speaker 1: women in the suffrage movement, we were we were talking

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Speaker 1: about this issue of white privilege, for instance, coming up

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Speaker 1: in terms of how white suffrage leaders and abolitionists did

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Speaker 1: enjoy more economic privilege in terms of not having to

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Speaker 1: work outside the home, having more time to devote to

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Speaker 1: their causes. Um. And while these kinds of racial differences

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Speaker 1: were starting to become more direct issues, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of harmony still going on. I mean, the fact

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Speaker 1: that you know, abolition and suffrage were working side by

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Speaker 1: side is still very much the case. For instance, from

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six to eighteen sixty nine. You have the

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Speaker 1: existence of the American Equal Rights Association, whose goal was

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Speaker 1: to quote secure equal rights to all American citizens, especially

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Speaker 1: the right of suffrage irrespective of race, color, or sex.

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Speaker 1: And you have with that the involvement of big names

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Speaker 1: like Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Katie Stanton, uh the support

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Speaker 1: of Harriet Tubman. So so June or truth. You have

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Speaker 1: women working across the aisles and by aisles, I mean

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Speaker 1: racial aisles for this movement, because this is the time

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Speaker 1: where it still seems like they can have a universal

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Speaker 1: suffrage movement granting black men and women the vote as

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Speaker 1: well as white women the vote. Everybody gets the vote, basically, right.

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Speaker 1: But things in the mind of Susan Anthony and Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Katie Stanton and other white suffragists, things start to go

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Speaker 1: awry after the Civil War in their minds, um because

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Speaker 1: it was in this aftermath of the Civil War that

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Speaker 1: we have Republican politicians introducing the fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments

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Speaker 1: to the Constitution extending citizens citizenship and suffrage two former

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Speaker 1: slave men. And so that's when you start to see

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Speaker 1: this divide, because then suffrage gains the central place in

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Speaker 1: that battle for women's rights among women like Anthony and stand.

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Speaker 1: You have these former abolitionist allies, you know, including those

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Speaker 1: who had long advocated for women's rights, becoming divided over priorities. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean because at this point, probably in the minds

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Speaker 1: of some of these suffrage leaders are like, hey, well

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Speaker 1: we've got abolition al right, Slavery is no longer legal

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Speaker 1: in the United States, so now it's time to really

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Speaker 1: press for the vote. And there were a number of

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Speaker 1: politicians who were promising suffrage leaders that yes, they would

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Speaker 1: with the fourteenth Amendment, they would get the vote, that

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Speaker 1: that would be universal suffrage. But no, the word mail

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Speaker 1: stayed in that amendment, and there was a lot of protestations.

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Speaker 1: And then when the fifteenth Amendment came up, uh, Susan

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Speaker 1: Anthony and Elizabeth Katie Stanton were directly opposed to it.

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Speaker 1: And this is when you see a major rift happening

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Speaker 1: in the suffrage movement in general. Because we should note

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Speaker 1: that in eighteen sixty seven there is a moment that

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Speaker 1: has often left out of women's studies classes, that which

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Speaker 1: is when the American Equal Rights Association is launching a

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Speaker 1: campaign in Kansas and Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Katie

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Speaker 1: Stanton accept funding from known racist George Tryan. This is

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Speaker 1: something we mentioned in our podcast on Susan B. Anthony,

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Speaker 1: And this is when other women in the UH the

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Speaker 1: A R A, like Lucretia Mott, who was the president

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Speaker 1: at the time, We're starting to say WHOA, whoa, what

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Speaker 1: are what are you all doing? And from the perspective

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Speaker 1: of Elizabeth Katy stand, she was like, well, I want

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Speaker 1: to publish this newspaper called The Revolution, and you know,

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Speaker 1: evolution has happened, so we really need to just focus

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Speaker 1: on suffrage. And this guy, George Train is going to

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Speaker 1: fund it. And there were even people like William Lloyd

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Speaker 1: Garrison who, after this happened, this is a couple of

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Speaker 1: years later, who wrote publicly to Elizabeth Katie Stanton saying, whoa,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? Well? How how could you be

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Speaker 1: accepting funding from this from this racist, this known racist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because there was that huge rift between those who felt

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Speaker 1: that black men needed the vote more than women and

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Speaker 1: those who were unwilling to postpone women's suffrage for the

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Speaker 1: sake of black men like Susan B. Anthony, like Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Katie Stanton, and so in eighteen sixty nine, you not

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Speaker 1: only have the passage of the fifteenth Amendment, which granted

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Speaker 1: black men the vote but not women, you have the

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Speaker 1: effective rift between the mainstream suffrage movement, and so it

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Speaker 1: splits into the American Women's Suffrage Association, which is pro

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Speaker 1: fifteenth Amendment, and the National American Women's Suffrage Association, which

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Speaker 1: was the organization led by Stanton and Anthony and Katherine H. Palzuski,

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Speaker 1: who's a professor of Women's and gender studies at the

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Speaker 1: University of Northern Iowa, notes that after the fifteenth Amendment

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Speaker 1: to a Constitution, a quote unquote racist component of the

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Speaker 1: suffrage campaign ensued, which is so unfortunate. There's even a

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Speaker 1: book about this called A Fighting Chance, and it's basically

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Speaker 1: focusing in on this time when suffrage loses a lot

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Speaker 1: of momentum because of that split, due to underlying honestly

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Speaker 1: racist motivations. Because at this point, I mean, Elizabeth Katie

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Speaker 1: Stanton is writing some things that we can't say on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, basically saying, hey, listen, why why would you

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Speaker 1: want to give the vote to a black man who

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Speaker 1: might be illiterate and doesn't know what he's talking about?

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Speaker 1: To put it in actually really nice, euphimistic terms, UM,

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Speaker 1: and other people saying what what what, what is happening?

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Speaker 1: And at this point, podcast listeners, Caroline might be thinking,

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Speaker 1: we've been hearing a lot about a couple of white women,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Katy Stanton and Susan B. Anthony. Uh So, now

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Speaker 1: we do need to focus even more on these black

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Speaker 1: women who were regardless of whatever was happening with those

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Speaker 1: you know, the split between those two main suffrage organizations

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Speaker 1: that then developed after the passage of the fifteenth Amendment,

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Speaker 1: who had been organizing on their own and were paving

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Speaker 1: the way among their own communities for suffrage and empowerment

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Speaker 1: of these new and emerging black communities across the United States. Right,

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Speaker 1: And we we named a lot of women whose Black

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Speaker 1: women whose voices emerged decades earlier in the fight for

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Speaker 1: abolition UM and women's rights and suffrage UM, and in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen eighties and nineties, and is when we really

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Speaker 1: see the development of these things called Black women's clubs,

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Speaker 1: and their heyday was really in the eighteen nineties, petering

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Speaker 1: off by about the nineteen twenties and thirties, and these

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Speaker 1: Black women's clubs had goals that were unique to African

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Speaker 1: American women. They weren't trying to ban together with white

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Speaker 1: stuff or just or white women's rights activists at this time.

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Speaker 1: This was an effort by black women to help each

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Speaker 1: other access higher education, participate in the suffrage movement. And

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Speaker 1: for the Black women who did join these groups, a

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Speaker 1: lot of them were divided into two camps, those who

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Speaker 1: did identify with the mainstream white suffrage organizations and those

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Speaker 1: who develop their own agendas in these black women's clubs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and the fact that they formed these social clubs

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Speaker 1: that were it was more of grassroots organizing on a

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Speaker 1: local level and which did develop, as we'll talk about,

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Speaker 1: into national organizations. It makes so much sense when you

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Speaker 1: consider the context that this is happening in Rosalin Turborg.

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Speaker 1: Penn talks about this in her book African American Women

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Speaker 1: in the Struggle for the Vote of how after the

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Speaker 1: emancipation of slaves in the South in eighteen sixty three, quote,

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Speaker 1: the immediate priority of freed women was to find lost

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Speaker 1: loved ones and to establish viable households while attempting to

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Speaker 1: count her white terrorism. And we'll talk about that more

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Speaker 1: with the work of Ida b. Wells Um And she

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Speaker 1: said that freed women in particular were more likely to

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Speaker 1: see suffrage as a collective not an individual possession. And

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Speaker 1: to me, these social clubs are a reflection of that

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Speaker 1: unique perspective of saying, Hey, we need to you know,

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Speaker 1: build ourselves up, we need to build our communities up,

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Speaker 1: we need to organize on these local levels, especially because

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Speaker 1: by this time we're talking about in the eighteen eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, plenty of white suffers groups were completely turning

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Speaker 1: their backs on Black women. Yeah. And you know, these

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Speaker 1: these clubs, uh early on filled sort of a literary

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Speaker 1: and self improvement role for women in these various communities, um,

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Speaker 1: women who had been denied an education at college after

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Speaker 1: the Civil War. And in the eighteen nineties you really

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Speaker 1: start to see them turning from just social and literary

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Speaker 1: pursuits two more social justice and activism because you have

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Speaker 1: the demise of reconstruction, but the rise of Jim Crow. Yeah,

429
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: and I mean there's there's so much racism still simmering

430
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: clearly during this time. I mean, the Jim Crow era

431
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: is so notorious for that. And we have this merger

432
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: between three major national social clubs forming the National Association

433
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: of Colored Women Clubs due to this letter written by

434
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: James Jacks, who was the president of the Missouri Press Association,

435
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: which was challenging the respectability of African American women, referring

436
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: to them as thieves and prostitutes, to which women like

437
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: Mary Church Tyrrell, who was the first president of the

438
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: National Association of Colored Women's club said, oh, oh really, really,

439
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: Jack's no, And so they continued organizing and on a

440
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: national level, and founders of the inn A c WC

441
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: included women like Josephine Ruff and Harry Tubman, Margaret Murray Washington,

442
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: Francis C. W Harper, Ida Wells Barnett, and again Mary

443
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: Church Terrell, who I mean she was Terrell herself as

444
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: an incredible biography and um was educated at Oberlin. A

445
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: lot of these women actually ended up going to Oberlin because,

446
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: as we talked about in our Women's Colleges episode, that

447
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: was one of the first mainstream US colleges that was

448
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: open to not just women, but women of color as well.

449
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: And you mentioned Idabelle Wells who became Ida Wells Barnett.

450
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: She is a kind of an exciting character. She was

451
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: a journalist who gained fame in the mid eighteen eighties

452
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: by refusing to give up her train seat to a

453
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: white man and moved to a Jim Crow car. Chaos

454
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: and Sue's wells was dragged from the train. She hires

455
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: a lawyer to see the railroad. She won her case

456
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty four and received a settle meant um,

457
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: and although the railroad did appeal her case, she therefore

458
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: afterward earned a reputation as a very powerful voice against racism.

459
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: And she also her main focus for a long time

460
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: was anti lynching law. She by the eight nineties had

461
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: started this crustade sort of working among these various women's

462
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: clubs to draw attention to the issue. Yeah, and this

463
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: is because she was living in Memphis at the time,

464
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: and there was there were horrific cases of lynching happening.

465
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: And I think what finally spurred her into action was

466
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: a black man that she knew being killed by a

467
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: lynch mob. And um, speaking though, like really quickly about

468
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: that incident on the train, I I wish that that

469
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: was as common of an historical milestone, because it really

470
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: was a milestone as the story of Rosa Parks not

471
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: giving up her seat, Because when I read, I was like,

472
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: why why is this not in every single history book

473
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: as well? It seems like that, you know, her day

474
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with it. She happened to

475
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: live in a time when women like Susan B. Anthony

476
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Katie Stanton Stanton, we're writing the feminist history books. Yeah, yeah,

477
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: absolutely and um in in two um she really established

478
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: her national reputation as being this person speaking out, but

479
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: being a woman in particular speaking out against lynching when

480
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: she publishes the book Southern Horror Lynching Law in all

481
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: its phases, and she even goes international with her crusade,

482
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: going over to Britain to talk about, Hey, this is

483
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: happening in the United States, we need to talk about it. Um.

484
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: In nineteen o nine, she also helped found the Double

485
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: A c P. Yeah, and you might not think it

486
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: could get any better than that. I mean, this woman

487
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: helped found the Double A CP. But her shining moment

488
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: came in nineteen thirteen when, after founding the Alpha Suffrage

489
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: Club of Illinois, was the largest Black woman's suffrage club

490
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: in Illinois. She she calls quite a stir at a

491
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: march uh the NAWSA, the National American Women's Suffrage Association

492
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: was marching in Washington, d C. But Black women were

493
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: told to march at the back, and you know, she

494
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: refused to comply. She leaves the parade site and everybody's like, oh, good,

495
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: she's gone. Not exactly. She waits until the parade starts

496
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: and she just ever so casually steps out of the

497
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: crowd and joins her sympathetic white colleagues from Illinois Bell

498
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: Squire and Virginia Brooks at the front of the parade

499
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: where you know, the press was there. They captured it

500
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: for eternity, and that press coverage did have an effect.

501
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean it did sort of transmits the message to

502
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: a lot of black women that no, you have a

503
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: place in this Yeah, because we should know that. By

504
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: this time, the National American Women's Suffrage Association has re

505
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: orge together. Those two splinter groups have come back together

506
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: under the leadership of again Elizabeth Katy Santon and Susan B. Anthony.

507
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: But they they were choosy in terms of allowing or

508
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: not allowing black women to participate, which is part of

509
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: the reason why you know, you have the emergence of

510
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: these social clubs um and these black women specific suffrage organizations,

511
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: and uh, just the way that they the way that

512
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: they treated these black women who wanted to participate in

513
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: this massive march. It was getting all this attention, and

514
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't all positive attention at all. I mean there

515
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: were a lot of hecklers in the crowd too, And

516
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: so the fact that Ida Wells did not care again

517
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: like on the train, was like, no, I'm not gonna

518
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: just like sit in the back. Um. But we should

519
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: also note to speaking of this parade, that in nineteen

520
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: o nine, a few years before, we have, in addition

521
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: to this social clubs emerging on college campuses, we have

522
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: the first African American sorority Alpha Kappa Alpha develop and

523
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: UM Delta Sigma Theta, which is one of the oldest

524
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: African American sororities, also marched in that nineteen thirteen in

525
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: a ws A parade with Ida B. Wells. And I

526
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: know that just in reading articles about it, because the anniversary,

527
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, was last year. Um, that's a huge point

528
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: of pride for that sorority. Yeah. But around this time,

529
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of kind of anger and

530
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,959
Speaker 1: disillusionment among a lot of African American women who were saying,

531
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: we've been alongside you this whole time, you know, all

532
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: the way from the abolition movement into the suffrage and

533
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: women's rights movement, and now you're turning your backs on us.

534
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: And a lot of it, honestly, particularly with for instance,

535
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: that Washington, d c. Parade where Ida b. Wells was

536
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: told to get out. You know, a lot of these

537
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: white women suffrages were concerned about, you know, ankling the

538
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: Southern contingent. Yeah. For instance, there was this convention suffrage

539
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: convention happening in Atlanta, and this was a few years back,

540
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: and Susan Anthony was going to leave this convention and

541
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas wanted to attend, but she said, hey, yeah,

542
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: if you could just not come, that'd be really great

543
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: because we don't want to freak Southern women out. So yeah,

544
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: it was all an effort to focus solely on women's suffrage,

545
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 1: mostly white women's suffrage. Yeah, because at that point race

546
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: was seen as a liability to their cause if they

547
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: aligned themselves too much. Because one thing too, that we

548
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: should note is that the one of the main strategies

549
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: of the National American Women's Suffrage Association for getting the

550
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: vote was to go on a state by state basis,

551
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: so they needed to court Southern voters who you know,

552
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: we're we're living in that Jim Crow era, right, and

553
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: so they were honestly worried that the participation of black

554
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: women would jeopardize the passage of the nineteenth Amendment, which

555
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: did get passed in right right, and it's called the

556
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: Susan B. Anthony Amendment, as we've noted, UM. But one

557
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: thing too that I should have mentioned earlier when we

558
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: talked about that um splintering of the the mainstream suffrage

559
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: movement into the NAWSA led by Santon and Anthony and

560
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: then the American Women's Suffrage Association, which was supportive of

561
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: the fifteenth Amendment. That um Josephine St. Pierre Ruffin was

562
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: one of the founders of the a ws A, UM

563
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: who later went on to be one of the leading

564
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: members of the National Association of Colored Women, which was

565
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: that overarching organization for all of those social clubs. So

566
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: she's you know, it's just yet another name that is

567
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: left out largely of the nineteen o two history of

568
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: women's suffrage, which for so long has been like the

569
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: go to chronicle of the fight for Women's Vote in

570
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: the United States, co authored by Susan B. Anthony and

571
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: Stanton and a woman named Matilda Joscely Engage, and so

572
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: journal Truth is the only the only African American woman

573
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: mentioned in there. Yea, and that that omission, those multiple omissions,

574
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: um really discouraged a lot of people because these suffragists,

575
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, a lot of these the white suffragists

576
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: were of more elite social standing, and so both black

577
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 1: women and working class white women kind of felt like, whoa,

578
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: you know, we were a part of this too the

579
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: whole time, and you've just used us as a stepping stone.

580
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: You know, it was great to have us when you

581
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: needed people to agitate on your behalf, but now you

582
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: know you're not helping us out. And you know, not

583
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: too long after nineteenth Amendment was past, black women were

584
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: effectively disenfranchised because of that Jim Crow era. Yeah, I mean,

585
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: and throughout this podcast that might be sounding like we're

586
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: trying to paint all of the white suffrage leaders that

587
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: you often hear about in history classes as just a

588
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: pack of racists that we you know, but it's that's

589
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: that's not the case. This is more telling the story

590
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: of how race and gender were really pitted against each

591
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: other during this time. I mean we we could move

592
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,919
Speaker 1: on up the flagpole and talk about, hey, well, why

593
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: weren't the men in office just going ahead and taking

594
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: that word mail out of the fourteenth Amendment or out

595
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: of the fifteenth Amendment and granting universal suffrage. If universal

596
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: suffrage had been granted in the eighteen sixties, I wonder

597
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: what feminism would look like today, because you wouldn't perhaps

598
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: you would not have had this I don't want it

599
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: say dirty underbelly, but but just like the agitating for

600
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: one thing over another instead of putting them together and

601
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: arguing for women's rights and rights for African Americans right.

602
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: And and there have been some historical accounts to looking,

603
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: you know, taking a closer look at the primary documents

604
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: of the time and saying, okay, well, you know we're

605
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Katy Stanton and Susan B. Anthony just outright racist,

606
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of people saying no, it was really

607
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: a matter of funding and money and sort of being

608
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 1: painted into a corner. So, if if anything, from this conversation,

609
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: this is even more a testament to the work of

610
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: Harriet Tubman sojourn or truth, Mary Church Terrell, I to

611
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: b Wells and so on and so forth for continuing

612
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: in that pursuit of you know, the enfranchisement not only

613
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: of people of color, but also uh for for women,

614
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: for women's suffrage, and and it's also to why it's

615
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: unfortunate that their stories are not told more often. Absolutely

616
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: absolutely Now Unfortunately we you know, we could, We couldn't

617
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: even in one podcast give as detailed of a history

618
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 1: of black women in the suffrage movement during this era

619
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: as we would have liked. Um. So, if if you

620
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: want some further reading, and if you want to check

621
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: out our sources to learn more about these women that

622
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: we mentioned, you should head on over to Stuff I've

623
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com, where we'll have the podcast

624
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: posted and if you click on the link, it will

625
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: have all of the sources inside of that podcast Postum.

626
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: But we also want to hear from you. Were their

627
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: names that we left out? Um? I'm sure that there were.

628
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: What are your Has this changed your perspective on the

629
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: suffrage movement because again, we don't we don't want to

630
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: paint it in a negative light, but we need to

631
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: be a little more honest about it. Perhaps, sure, Yeah,

632
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: everything wasn't puppies and kittens and rainbows during a suffrage movement? Surprisingly, also,

633
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas, can we just like in terms of like

634
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: amazing dudes on the podcast? We should. If there is

635
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: a Sminty Men's Hall of Fame, he definitely deserves a place. Um,

636
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 1: so let us know your thoughts. Mom Stuff at Discovery

637
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send us your emails.

638
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 1: You can also reach us on Twitter at mom Stuff

639
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: podcast and on Facebook as well, and we've got a

640
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: couple of messages to share with you right now. So

641
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Speaker 1: I've got a Facebook message here from Samantha about our

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00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: episode on paras social relationships and shipping called Fictional Attraction.

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Speaker 1: She writes, since my freshman year of college, I've gotten

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Speaker 1: deeper and deeper into myriad fandoms and ships from which

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Speaker 1: I hope to never emerge while meeting some truly amazing people.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to let you guys know, though, that your

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00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: definition of slash my primary interest is not correct. You

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00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: defined it strangely as pairings or fan fixed deals exclusively

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Speaker 1: with actors having sex, and I have no idea where

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00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: that definition came from. SLASH is simply pairings that are

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00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: same sex and usually male. As fem slash is used

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00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: to define female pairings, much of the fanfic associated with

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00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: slash is not sexually explicit, just as much of het

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00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: fanfic is very sexually explicit. There's a variety there, as

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Speaker 1: in every subsector of fanfic and fandom. Something else I

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Speaker 1: wanted to mention is that while most researchers say that

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Speaker 1: slash writers slash fans consist of mostly straight teen and

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Speaker 1: preteen girls, every slash fan I know of, including myself,

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Speaker 1: is a queer woman who writes and reads slash fanfic,

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00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: largely out of a desire to see greater queer relationship

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Speaker 1: representation within media than than currently exists. Also because we

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00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: too think it's hot. I just wanted to put that

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Speaker 1: out there, maybe as another example of how slash shipping

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Speaker 1: and fandoms can be representative of larger issues and struggles.

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Speaker 1: So thanks Samantha for that insight. U fan fix Well,

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Speaker 1: I have a message here from Jessica about our episode

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Speaker 1: on Can Birth Control Kill You? She says, uh, I

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00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: noticed that you ladies didn't really touch much on the

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00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: adverse effects of birth control when taken with other medications

670
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: in the past. I was put on a drug for

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Speaker 1: anxiety and an oral contraceptive. All doctors involved knew about

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Speaker 1: all the drugs I was taking, but weren't aware of

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Speaker 1: any interactions. I eventually started having extreme dizziness and heart

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Speaker 1: palpitations that eventually led to a grand Mall seizure on

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Speaker 1: the sidewalk while heading to work. Even after that, no

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Speaker 1: one put together that it was the drugs that were

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Speaker 1: interacting negatively until four months later, when my gynecologist received

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00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: a heads up about new studies that showed heart problems

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00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: could be caused by the two drugs interacting. I immediately

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00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,240
Speaker 1: looked up the studies and saw that these heart problems

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00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: could cause seizures and even death, but yet none of

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00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: my doctors knew about them. Good news is that I

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00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: went off the anxiety medication and am doing fine. Bad

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00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: news is that my mom recently called several pharmacies about

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00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: any potential interaction between the anxiety drug and oral contrast optives,

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00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: and they weren't well versed in these interactions. So thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for sharing your story. Jessica. I'm sorry

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00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: you had such a scary health emergency, but this is

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Speaker 1: just another example of how important it is to educate yourself.

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00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: You know, about the drugs you're taking, about any type

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00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: of medication you're taking, whether it's prescription or over the counter,

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00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: asking your doctor those important questions, and follow up, follow up,

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Speaker 1: follow up, absolutely, and if you'd like to follow up

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00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: with us, you can email us at mom stuff at

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00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com and for links to all of our

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00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: social media and for every single podcast, blog, and video

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00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: we've ever done. You know on stuff Mom Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: There's one place on the Internet that you need to

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00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: go right now. It's stuff Mom Never Told You dot

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00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics

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Speaker 1: because it has stuff works dot com. Six