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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We are returning with an episode about

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Speaker 1: something was quite a hobby horse of ours for a while,

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Speaker 1: the concept of biohacking. Matt off Air, we were looking

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Speaker 1: through some of our files and you said.

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Speaker 2: Trey Wick, Yeah, I remember, I remember this really well.

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Speaker 2: This is around a time when maybe we were just

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Speaker 2: getting hip to it, the use of ketamine specifically as

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Speaker 2: a drug to treat PTSD and other, you know, other

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Speaker 2: mental health issues. And you know, we were also looking

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Speaker 2: around this time this twenty eighteen so looking at psilocybin

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Speaker 2: and other psychoactive substances that can be super helpful with

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Speaker 2: those things. And when we heard about what happened to

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Speaker 2: Aaron Treywick, or at least what allegedly maybe happened to him, right,

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Speaker 2: it was utterly fascinating. And yeah, this is this entire episode.

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Speaker 2: It makes you wonder, right because I don't know how

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Speaker 2: deeply we go into it, but maybe in just my

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Speaker 2: personal weird mental travels thinking about what a sensory deprivation

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Speaker 2: tank can actually do for the innerspace and then what

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Speaker 2: happened to Aaron, I don't know, it's weird, man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as you know, I'm a big fan of sensory

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Speaker 1: deprivation in general, so I think this hit both of

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Speaker 1: us on a personal level. Here we are, without further ado,

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Speaker 1: from December twenty eighteen, the mysterious death of biohacker Aaron Treewick.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Control Deck, and most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. I have a question for the

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Speaker 1: table and for everyone listening to set off this episode.

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Speaker 1: Here it goes, if you could, if you could enhance

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Speaker 1: yourself through some sort of technological or even genetic means,

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Speaker 1: what kind of thing would you, guys choose?

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Speaker 4: I would want to spoiler?

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Speaker 1: You would want to spoil it like as on audible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so I could run faster, I would cut

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Speaker 4: down my wind resistance, so I'd wear a windbreaker and

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Speaker 4: then have my spoiler. See, I would be unstoppable.

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Speaker 2: Gotta gotta correct you here though that spoiler, and you

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Speaker 2: tell me if I'm wrong about this. But I think

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Speaker 2: that spoiler is to actually provide a tiny bit of drag,

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Speaker 2: Isn't it to push their.

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Speaker 4: I need some downforce or I'm a running sitch and

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Speaker 4: that's what I'm looking for.

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Speaker 2: Spoiler.

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Speaker 1: Would it be mounted on like your posterior or your shoulders?

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Speaker 4: But yes, it would be on both. Oh it would

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Speaker 4: have dual spoilers, Oh my god, because surely where one

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Speaker 4: is good, too is better?

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Speaker 2: Dude, double double good.

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Speaker 1: That's what a lot of mods think.

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Speaker 2: Had some air vents and you're good to go.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what about you met?

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Speaker 2: For me, it would be something that would enhance my

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Speaker 2: either vision or hearing capabilities. I think hearing would be

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun, especially because I've got pretty bad

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Speaker 2: hearing as of the moment due to those drums.

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Speaker 4: You're really making me feel like I've squandered my choice.

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Speaker 4: But I should have thought of this through.

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Speaker 2: A little more.

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Speaker 1: I guess I would want to live forever. You would

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Speaker 1: want to live forever, I mean as your horses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get okay, totally.

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Speaker 1: They are horses live forever with the option to kill myself.

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Speaker 2: So somehow it's always on the table.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about it.

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Speaker 2: Somehow modify your cells to not die off in some.

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Speaker 1: Way to prevent some of that inevitable decay. There's good

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Speaker 1: and bad news, right. The good news is that in

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Speaker 1: each of the things we described, we'll ask Paul off

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Speaker 1: Air in each of the attributes we described. While we

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Speaker 1: may not be able to get the full realization of

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Speaker 1: our wishes, we have different types of technology that can

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Speaker 1: can help us. We have the technology, to quote bionic Man,

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Speaker 1: to build, for instance, a spoiler hoodie right or spoiler slacks.

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Speaker 1: We have hearing technology that can improve someone's natural hearing.

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Speaker 1: We do have some anti aging stuff, but that's probably

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Speaker 1: more controversial. It's weird because we're talking today sort of

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Speaker 1: about do it yourself medicine. DIY medicine and human experimentation

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Speaker 1: has been historically speaking, one of the most controversial issues

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Speaker 1: is this realm. The controversy continues in the modern day.

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Speaker 1: Here in twenty eighteen, because recent medical innovations and breakthroughs

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Speaker 1: have allowed for affordable, if super risky, self experimentation, we

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Speaker 1: have officially entered the age of do it yourself biology.

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Speaker 1: There's sometimes referred to as biohacking. Next question, what the

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Speaker 1: hell is that?

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Speaker 4: Well, this one's also interesting because the human experimentation that

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Speaker 4: we're talking about historically has often been against people's will,

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Speaker 4: and this enters this adds another angle to it. It's

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Speaker 4: almost like assisted suicide, where it's like, this is my

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Speaker 4: body do this to me? I would like to do

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Speaker 4: this to myself. So who is the onus of responsibility

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Speaker 4: on it? On the individual doing it? Are on the

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Speaker 4: people that are secretly doing this research and not going

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Speaker 4: through the proper channels, And we'll get to that right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the concept of biohacking itself has to

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Speaker 2: do with any kind of activity that exploits genetic material.

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Speaker 2: This is going to be like humans in their genetic

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Speaker 2: material or animals, but in the most cases with the

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Speaker 2: DIY stuff, it's on yourself. So it's human genetic material

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Speaker 2: and you're experimenting with this stuff without regard to whatever

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Speaker 2: the accepted standards are, like what the FDA might say.

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Speaker 2: And this is generally done for either these kind of

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Speaker 2: self startup kind of ventures, or for just an individual,

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Speaker 2: or sometimes even for criminal purposes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what you will hear alarmist reporting. They'll say

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Speaker 1: these these crazy kids, these insane biohackers, are going to

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Speaker 1: change something about themselves or potentially in the future, something

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Speaker 1: about their unwitting victims. And this sounds like it's the

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Speaker 1: stuff of science fiction, but it is real to some degree,

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Speaker 1: and it's related to other discipline. You'll hear other words

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Speaker 1: described in the same conversations. There's grinding, the practice of

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Speaker 1: installing technological devices in the human body, such as magnetic sensors.

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Speaker 1: I think with talked about that on the show previously.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, a lot of times you'll hear the term

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Speaker 2: what where when dealing with these things.

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Speaker 1: And it's also related to something called nutrient genomics. If

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Speaker 1: you heard about this one.

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Speaker 2: This one I had not.

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Speaker 1: So it's the use of it's leveraging genetic information to

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Speaker 1: determine effects of nutrition and how the foods you intake

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Speaker 1: and the substances you intake can affect a change in

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Speaker 1: your biology. Of course, neither grinding nor nutrient genomics are

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Speaker 1: particularly new. People have been installing medical devices and human

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Speaker 1: bodies for decades and decades and decades. If you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this, you have probably at some point met someone

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Speaker 1: who had a pacemaker. Yeah, And on the subject in

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Speaker 1: nutrient genomics. It's really easy to say, Hey, isn't that

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Speaker 1: just you know, a diet, yeah, just like eat better?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Or are we talking about like some of these Alex

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Speaker 4: Jones remedies you know, yeah? Whatever? Ingesting? Then at what

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Speaker 4: point does something go from the realm of food to

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Speaker 4: the realm of drugs? You know what I mean? It's

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Speaker 4: like a supplement versus a medication.

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Speaker 2: This is something my wife has been talking with me

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Speaker 2: recently because she follows someone called the medical Medium. Who

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Speaker 2: is this guy who is I guess a nutritionist, but

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Speaker 2: he also claims the phrase medical medium. He claims to

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Speaker 2: be able to walk up to someone and basically say

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Speaker 2: what their ailments are without knowing anything about them, and.

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Speaker 4: He guess their age and weight too.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming it sounds like a parlor trick.

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Speaker 1: And a jar thing pretty much, but with like blood

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Speaker 1: and organs.

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Speaker 2: It feels like some kind of cold reading, right, That's

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Speaker 2: what I immediately, That's what triggers in me when I

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Speaker 2: hear it. But the guy didn't. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: he invented it, but he popularized this thing that is

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Speaker 2: very similar to neutrogenomics, where it's oh, what is it

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Speaker 2: celery juice that has become I guess all the rage

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Speaker 2: in wealthy arts of America. Or you just drink celery

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Speaker 2: juice all day long and it's going to change your

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Speaker 2: body somehow. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Do they sell it at Whole Foods? Do you have

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Speaker 4: to juice it yourself?

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Speaker 2: It was What Diana told me is that it was

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Speaker 2: sold out of Whole Foods for a while there because

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Speaker 2: this guy popularized it so hard.

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Speaker 4: So you can't find celery anymore. There's a big run

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Speaker 4: on cellar.

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Speaker 1: There's a run on celery deally, you would want to

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Speaker 1: juice it yourself.

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Speaker 2: It's fresh.

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Speaker 1: Xactly did you eat? Somebody checked me on this. But

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Speaker 1: side note, it is more expensive for your body calorically

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Speaker 1: speaking to consume celery. Uh, like you're losing calories. This

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Speaker 1: is when you eat them.

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Speaker 2: This is my belief because I've heard that too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's true.

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Speaker 1: All right, So let us know celery fanatics in the crowd,

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Speaker 1: and if you are a celery juice enthusiast, tell us

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Speaker 1: about your nutri genomic journey. This stuff parallels closely with

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Speaker 1: a philosophy known as transhumanism, the idea that through our

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Speaker 1: own gut gumption technology and can do it. Vanis can

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Speaker 1: improve ourselves and become something that transcends the idea of

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Speaker 1: homo sapien.

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Speaker 2: Love it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cool idea. It's fraught with problems. We've

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Speaker 1: talked before about the Gadiga possibility. We've talked before about how,

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Speaker 1: based on the way the world works now economically speaking,

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Speaker 1: the first people who would become truly transhuman would likely

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Speaker 1: be very, very wealthy people, or people who are transformed

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Speaker 1: into weapons of war. Unfortunately, that's just how how things look.

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Speaker 1: But our story today takes place in this murky world

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Speaker 1: of biohacking, of transhumanism. But this isn't exactly a dive

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Speaker 1: into the ethical complications of unsupervised self experimentation. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it's a little more true crime than tech. It's a

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Speaker 1: little more murder than medicine. It's time to meet Aaron Treywick.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 4: Aaron Treywick was born December nineteenth, nineteen eighty nine. He

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Speaker 4: was a transhumanism activist and also the CEO of a

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Speaker 4: company called Ascendance Biomedical, which aimed to make new, revolutionary

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Speaker 4: and affordable gene therapies capable of treating previously incurable afflictions

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Speaker 4: let's call them like herpes or HIV, things that medicine

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Speaker 4: has yet to figure out a solution for that. We

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Speaker 4: just people who have them. They live with them, you know,

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Speaker 4: for the rest.

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Speaker 1: Of their lives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the emphasis there is on cure yea, right, so

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Speaker 1: not treatment not treatment. So most many diseases or afflictions

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Speaker 1: have very effective treatment regimens.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: They can repress the symptoms or the consequences of a condition,

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Speaker 1: but they will not cure it, which works out great

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Speaker 1: for pharmaceutical companies. And I'm not saying that that's what

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Speaker 1: they want to happen. But you know, somebody paying you

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Speaker 1: five hundred dollars a month for the rest of their life,

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Speaker 1: that's a guaranteed income stream.

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Speaker 4: We've kicked this old chestnut down the street many a time, right,

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Speaker 4: where it's like, does it benefit anyone that's making money

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Speaker 4: off of treatment to cure something? Are people actively holding

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Speaker 4: back said cure? I mean, it's it's a question that

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Speaker 4: we ask all the time, and I don't think we've

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Speaker 4: seen definitive proof that yes, that's definitely happening, but it

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Speaker 4: sure makes sense.

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Speaker 1: There's definitely motivation there and it's true that drugs. Making

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Speaker 1: drugs here in the US is a labor intensive, very

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Speaker 1: very difficult process, lots of time, lots of time, not

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Speaker 1: just because it's a needle in the haystack, and the

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Speaker 1: haystack is the human body, which we still don't fully understand,

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Speaker 1: but also because of the bureaucratic oversight that's required, and

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Speaker 1: that comes into play here later. So Treywick was born

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Speaker 1: in DC. He lived in Alabama. He graduated with a

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Speaker 1: degree in interdisciplinary studies, which is sort of just it's

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Speaker 1: a very customizable degree, I guess is a good way

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Speaker 1: to put it. So interdisciplinary studies will have you encountering

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Speaker 1: your basic prerecs or your core classes, the one oh ones,

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Speaker 1: the eleven oh ones, and then branching out into stuff

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Speaker 1: that interest you more like the intersection between history and

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Speaker 1: biology or so on. Trewick had no clinical science background whatsoever,

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Speaker 1: no formal training, no research experience, and critics were quick

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Speaker 1: to point this out. His critics and opponents also hated

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Speaker 1: his frequent use of the C word or cure because

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Speaker 1: they felt it was essentially begging for increased scrutiny and

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Speaker 1: then possible litigation or legal action from the FDA, the

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Speaker 1: Food and Drug Administration. His first big splash into the

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Speaker 1: world of transhumanism and biohacking came about in twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: when he worked with an outfit called the Global Health

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Speaker 1: Span Policy Institute, a nonprofit advocating investment in unorthodox, radical

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Speaker 1: approaches to anti aging treatments. There's a story here, and

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Speaker 1: may it may bias some of us against Treywick, but

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Speaker 1: it is important to know it's completely true. He got

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Speaker 1: hired because the company was run by his adoptive cousin,

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Speaker 1: a person named Edwina Rogers. She was a lobbyist, former

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Speaker 1: advisor to w Bush.

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Speaker 2: Because just really fast, because Trewick was not his given name.

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Speaker 2: He was adopted by the Trewick family.

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Speaker 1: That is correct, Yeah, he was adopted by the Trewick family,

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Speaker 1: and he's not a blood relation to Rogers. So he

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Speaker 1: graduates from college and he calls Rogers and asks for

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Speaker 1: some career advice. She says, well, what are you interested in?

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Speaker 1: And one of the topics that came up was the

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Speaker 1: idea of life extension, just another way to package anti aging.

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Speaker 1: That's a passion she shared with him. And you know,

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Speaker 1: by the time you get toward the end of your

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Speaker 1: individual's story. Most people are very interested in life extension

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Speaker 1: or anti aging. She decided to start an organization dedicated

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Speaker 1: to expanding healthy human lifetimes. So she founded this GHPI,

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Speaker 1: and then she installed Treywick as the CEO. She also in,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to be a good family member. She

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Speaker 1: also helped him move into the house that she and

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Speaker 1: her husband shared in Washington, d c. Three weeks into

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Speaker 1: his stay, things started to go south. Treywick told her

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Speaker 1: husband told Roger's husband, a mister Neemeyer, that after college

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Speaker 1: he had lived in a tantric sex house in Colorado,

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Speaker 1: and he started talking about his experience there. Mister Niemeyer

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Speaker 1: was not happy or impressed, and we have a quote

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Speaker 1: from him about his opinion of Aaron Treywick.

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Speaker 2: He had delusions that women wanted him. He'd be talking

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Speaker 2: with them and promising them meetings with senators, and this

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Speaker 2: is outside of the quote. He also said that at

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Speaker 2: one point mister Treywick referred to the women he slept

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Speaker 2: with as my skanks.

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Speaker 1: Gross all class, all class. So Rogers realized fairly quickly

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Speaker 1: into this that Treywick was lying to both her and

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Speaker 1: her husband Treywick was intercepting professional correspondence that was meant

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Speaker 1: for Rogers, and at least once he took an airplane

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Speaker 1: ticket and a conference invitation on her behalf. So they

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Speaker 1: said we want you to come to this conference. He said, oh,

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Speaker 1: they must be me or I want to go. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just a little bit of a credit hog. And

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Speaker 1: one night in late March, when Rogers' husband was out

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Speaker 1: of town, Treywick attempted to force his way into her

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Speaker 1: bedroom at two in the morning. This was one of

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Speaker 1: the last straws. Rogers fires him on July seventeenth, twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: He continues to tell people he works at the nonprofit

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Speaker 1: for about a year after and then he goes on

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Speaker 1: to found what you had mentioned earlier, nol A Sentence

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Speaker 1: Biomedical in twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. And this organization had a mission and

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Speaker 4: it was quote to make cutting edge biomedical technologies available

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Speaker 4: for everyone. And there was of course a controversy from

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Speaker 4: the start. As you might imagine, Ascendance aimed to save

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Speaker 4: money by avoiding the rigor and expense of clinical trials,

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Speaker 4: those pesky clinical trials and FDA oversight that seems highly problematic,

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Speaker 4: doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And again it gets back to that whole idea

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Speaker 2: of those trials. That process is crazy, crazy expensive and

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Speaker 2: also takes a ton of time. Both of those are

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Speaker 2: directly linked. And according to Treywick, he said that this

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Speaker 2: kind of getting around these regulations is not illegal. And

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Speaker 2: here's a quote.

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Speaker 1: There are breakthroughs in the world that we can actually

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Speaker 1: bring to market in a way that wouldn't require us

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Speaker 1: to butt up against the FDA's walls, but instead to

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Speaker 1: walk around them. Oh and what they're talking about, essentially

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Speaker 1: is self experimentation. Self experimentation is strongly discouraged by agencies

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Speaker 1: like the FDA, but it's difficult for regulators to intervene

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Speaker 1: unless you are using a drug that is already a

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Speaker 1: schedule drug. You know, unless you're saying I want to

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Speaker 1: figure out the benefits of heroin or MDMA, they can't

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Speaker 1: really prosecute you. You know, if you say, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to live on a diet of celery juice and buttermilk

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Speaker 1: just for three months and just see what happens to

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Speaker 1: my body and wheat grass and wheat grass very important component,

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Speaker 1: they can't stop you because it comes to a matter

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Speaker 1: of personal liberty. Right.

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Speaker 4: But my question is like this guy sort of casts

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Speaker 4: himself as being at the forefront of this, you know,

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Speaker 4: self discovery, self experimentation field, but it seems here that

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Speaker 4: he's almost using this as like a work around for

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Speaker 4: his company, right, so he doesn't actually have to spend

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Speaker 4: the money that it takes to do the research and

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Speaker 4: to do the I mean, you know, you can say

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Speaker 4: what you will about the FDA and all on how

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Speaker 4: long or you know, that approval process takes. But this

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Speaker 4: does not seem magnanimous in the way that it's being

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Speaker 4: discussed here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a good point. What are the true

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Speaker 1: motives versus the stated motives here? And equally important, what

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Speaker 1: did a sentence Biomedical actually do? We'll tell you after

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: And we're back now. I think something that sets Ascendance

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Speaker 2: apart as well as Aaron Treywick is kind of the

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Speaker 2: showmanship that he had and some of the more radical

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Speaker 2: things that he was willing to do in front of

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Speaker 2: a live crowd.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In October twenty seventeen, the company Ascendanced Biomedical shared a

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Speaker 1: live broadcast over the Internet airwaves, Facebook specifically, and it

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Speaker 1: featured Treywick and one of his colleague slash associates, a

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Speaker 1: guy named Tristan Roberts. Tristan Roberts had HIV and he

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Speaker 1: injected himself with an untested experimental gene therapy. This was

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Speaker 1: presented as someone saying, let's get rid of this unnecessary

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Speaker 1: red tape holding us back. Tristan in the video does say,

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Speaker 1: you know, he indicates that he has consented to this.

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Speaker 1: It is his choice, it's his body, so legally, there's

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Speaker 1: not really too much you can do about it unless

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Speaker 1: you could prove the guy was coerced. But then they

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Speaker 1: had another another similar experiment that involved Treywick himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he injected himself with something that he referred to

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Speaker 2: as research compound, and in a later interview he referred

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Speaker 2: to this as a treatment and another term bound to

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Speaker 2: catch the unwanted attention of that old FDA. And it

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Speaker 2: turned out that this was, at least from everything I've read,

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Speaker 2: a herpes treatment, right, that's right, And you know, these

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Speaker 2: both of these actions feel very radical to me personally. Sure,

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Speaker 2: going on a live stream to inject yourself and or

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Speaker 2: your associate to inject himself with something on and it's

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Speaker 2: gene therapy of all things.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's also that's part of the strange dissonance in

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Speaker 1: the guy's character that we're talking about. He publicly compared

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Speaker 1: himself to Jonas Salk and several other like Louis Pasteur,

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Speaker 1: several other great scientists of note, great innovators of medicine,

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Speaker 1: self experimentation, though at what point does it become just

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Speaker 1: performance right spectacle? So it's not a surprise that he

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Speaker 1: was a controversial figure in the transhumanism or biohacking community.

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Speaker 1: His critics there were many saw him as little more

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Speaker 1: than a smooth talking showman, prone to over promising and

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Speaker 1: rushing headlong into these deadline that were just cartoonish without

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Speaker 1: realizing the extent of research and science that was required

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Speaker 1: to accomplish the goals. His friend Tristan Roberts, who we

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Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, put it this way. He has a great

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Speaker 1: quote about this.

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Speaker 4: He seems to promise anything to everyone who was looking

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Speaker 4: for something. He was actually developing some of the things

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Speaker 4: he was saying he was developing. On the other hand,

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Speaker 4: it did seem like he would take any money that

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Speaker 4: people handed him with no regard for executing.

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Speaker 1: And here's a question, let's stop for a tick here.

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Speaker 1: Why are all these people speaking of Aaron Treewick in

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Speaker 1: the past tense? Well, it's because he is dead.

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Speaker 2: That's correct. On April twenty ninth, twenty eighteen, the body

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Speaker 2: of Aaron Treewick was discovered floating in a sensory deprivation

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Speaker 2: tank at soul Ex Float Spa in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 1: And a century deprivation tank is a meditative, mildly therapeutic

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Speaker 1: thing where where you float with minimal clothing or nude

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Speaker 1: in a body of water or fluid salty water. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that so that you can float similar like dead

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Speaker 1: sea level and you are left alone with your thoughts. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's usually dark, quiet and just you. Your mind is

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Speaker 2: released a bit from its body.

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Speaker 4: And some people it would cause serious anxiety. For me

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Speaker 4: being one of that, just the idea of this does

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Speaker 4: not appeal to me. But our cohort, Robert Lamb from

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Speaker 4: Stuff to Blow your Mind enjoys them and does them

402
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Speaker 4: que And some people say that it's almost a psychedelic

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Speaker 4: experience where you feel you see things behind your eyelids

404
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Speaker 4: and the act of the absolute lack of any sound

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Speaker 4: or sight creates these very intense kind of visions or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And the metro ped found him right after. There was

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Speaker 1: a nine to one one call where.

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Speaker 2: I believe the.

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Speaker 1: I believe he was in the capsule or you know,

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Speaker 1: in the contraption for long enough. He was in there

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Speaker 1: longer than he was supposed to be, and after a

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Speaker 1: certain point, the capsule automatically drains of the fluid. Is

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Speaker 1: that correct?

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Speaker 2: Correct? Yeah, And it's in there on purpose, just to

415
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Speaker 2: make sure nothing's wrong, and it also lets you know that, hey,

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Speaker 2: your session's over. Yeah, we have a whole story here.

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Speaker 2: But he was found unconscious inside this float tank and

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Speaker 2: then he was pronounced dead at eleven thirty one am

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Speaker 2: that day, So there's a bit of a story here.

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Speaker 2: Apparently Treywick scheduled the same day float and he scheduled

421
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Speaker 2: at for nine am in the morning. He showed up

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Speaker 2: about twenty twenty five minutes late. Then he got in there,

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Speaker 2: he signed the standard waiver, and then the sole ex

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Speaker 2: co owner I can't say the name, put eddruman Visiri

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Speaker 2: there you go, arrived at about ten forty nine. So

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Speaker 2: if it's an hour long session, he shows up about

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes late, that puts it about around twenty five

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Speaker 2: to thirty minutes after the session should be ending for Treywick,

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Speaker 2: and the co owner asks, like, why is somebody still

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Speaker 2: in this floatroom? It was scheduled for this time, there's

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00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: someone still in there. And it became pretty clear that

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Speaker 2: something was going wrong, and they realized that the door

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Speaker 2: to Treywick's room was a jar. And this is not

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Speaker 2: something that would generally happen when you're in one of

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Speaker 2: these sessions. Again, you want it to be quiet, you

436
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Speaker 2: want to be alone. Generally, someone who's going to get

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Speaker 2: in one of these gets nude or at least close

438
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: to nude, so they want a bit of privacy. The

439
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: door was a jar that they noticed that, and it

440
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: was strange, right, not the tank lid, but the door

441
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: to the room that has the tank in it, right,

442
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: And it's like an individual tank in each room exactly.

443
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 4: Okay.

444
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 2: The room itself was also dark. There were no lights on,

445
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 2: and it's those sensor lights where if someone would have

446
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: gotten out of the tank even opened the door to

447
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: the tank, probably that movement would have caused the lights

448
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: to turn on. But it was dark. And then they

449
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 2: opened the tank's lid and they saw him in there,

450
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: and he was unconscious. But again, like you said, Ben,

451
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: it had already been drained by that point.

452
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So at first they said, you know, we

453
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: don't have any evidence to suggest foul play. One of

454
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: Trewick's cousins told The New York Times that police had

455
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: found ketamine in Aaron Treewick's belonging, specifically in his pockets.

456
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: This is important because of what the autopsy ascertained.

457
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 4: So Bloomberg News published some details of the autopsy findings

458
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 4: and here's what they had to say. Aaron Trewick, for toom,

459
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: is the controversial twenty eight year old biohacker who was

460
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 4: found dead in this sensory derivation tank. Accidentally drowned and

461
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 4: he had ketamine in his system. The autopsy report that

462
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 4: was given to Bloomberg showed that that was the cause

463
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 4: of death, was an accidental drowning, and they kind of

464
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 4: vaguely blame kenemy, which is an anesthetic and it's used

465
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 4: for recreation. But it's not like he overdosed on the drug.

466
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 4: He was just under the influence of the drug and

467
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 4: supposedly drowned as a result of being intoxicated and not

468
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 4: having his wits about him. I suppose is that which

469
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: you guys took away from this as well.

470
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 2: Essentially, yes, but also it should just be noted here

471
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: while we're still in the investigation and discovery phase, that

472
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: the Metro police that discovered him said there didn't seem

473
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 2: to be any foul play involved in his death.

474
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: Yes, And here's where the story takes a turn. You see,

475
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: despite the findings of the autopsy that eventually emerged, despite

476
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: the statements of the police department at the time, many people,

477
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: both supporters and critics, as well as bitter rivals and enemies,

478
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 1: thought there was much much more to the story of

479
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: what really happened. In that sense, Redeprivation Tank on April

480
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: twenty ninth, and we'll dive into that after a word

481
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy.

482
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 2: We have a couple of big questions here that, as

483
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: Ben said right before the break, have been posed by

484
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: everyone from his best friends to his most bitter enemies.

485
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: And the first one is did Aaron Treywick in some

486
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: way fake his death?

487
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 4: Did?

488
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 2: Oh?

489
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: Have I ever mentioned this word on this show before?

490
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: Surely I have the technical term for when somebody fakes

491
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: their own death, say it pseudo. Side's a it's a

492
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: real thing. Pseudo. Side that's interesting is that it sounds

493
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: like it could be. But yeah, just the word pseudo

494
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: and then side sort of like regicide is death of

495
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: a king, fratricide, killing of a brother, right or a relation?

496
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: So did Also there's this great book called Going off

497
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: the Grid, I think playing dead, and it's about how

498
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: difficult it is to successfully commit pseudicide.

499
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 2: An author we still haven't interviewed.

500
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: No, but we have talked about We have talked with

501
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: this author about interviewing them. I'm just embarrassed to follow

502
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: up now, I.

503
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 2: Know how long has it been, like three years old?

504
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: Oh man, So how are you doing? We'll ask her

505
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: about her newer books. Okay, so what happened here? We

506
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: found this in a brilliant New York Times article that

507
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: has one of my favorite quotes that doesn't really have

508
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: anything to do with this situation. David Ishi is someone

509
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: who was familiar with trey Wick's work. He first became

510
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: interested in genetic manipulation because he breeds dogs, and in

511
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: a quote he's referring to Treywick, he says a lot

512
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: of people want to go fast. Everybody who's new thinks

513
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: they're going to have a pet dragon in six weeks.

514
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: But biology beats you down and you realize, okay, this

515
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: is going to take way longer than I expect. I

516
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: just wanted to make dogs glow, you know, and that's

517
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: taken years.

518
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,479
Speaker 4: It's a real glow, like like have shiny coats.

519
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, give them phosphor.

520
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all he wanted. That would have been incredible,

521
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: David she.

522
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: It seems like a pretty reasonable risk.

523
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they refer to him as a researcher who

524
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: worked at ascendants to David She, So I'm not sure

525
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: how much association he actually had. That's what the New

526
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: York Times says, you know, who knows exactly. But apparently

527
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: upon hearing this guy who's trying to make dogs glow,

528
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: heard that, you know, Trey Wick had he had died,

529
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: and his first thought was that perhaps he had Aaron

530
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: had somehow faked it and then run off with all

531
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: the money that he'd been given by clients. Which if

532
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 2: that's his first thought, it kind of tells you depending

533
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: on how closely this guy worked with Treewick, he kind

534
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: of tells you something about Treewick. And then another person,

535
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: Tristan Roberts, who we heard from before, said, let's see,

536
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: he was a biohacker who worked with a Sentence. He

537
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: thought the same thing. And he even says that perhaps

538
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: the body was just a very convincing clone. He joked

539
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: about it after hearing about Aaron Trewick ouch.

540
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: And then there's the other possibility. This goes back to

541
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: that door slightly. Ajar was Aaron Treewick murdered?

542
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 4: Hmm, okay, so New York Times reported that this person,

543
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 4: Kelly Martin, who was one of the founders of a

544
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 4: Sentence Biomedical, had her own theory about the whole situation,

545
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: and it hinted at a different conspiracy. And here's a quote.

546
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 4: There's speculation if you watch Aaron's last video, that he

547
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 4: was going to provide disruptive technology that would upend big pharma.

548
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 4: And also she goes on quote he said that we

549
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: were close to coming up with something that was pretty revolutionary.

550
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 4: It is interesting, and it seems like the kind of

551
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 4: claims this dude would have been known to make.

552
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: That's the thing.

553
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And it's so vague, but it's big. It's huge.

554
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: It's exciting.

555
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: I can tell you because we have a rapport.

556
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 4: I mean everything we know about this guy up to

557
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: this point makes me see him as kind of like

558
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 4: one of these kind of fake it till you make

559
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 4: it tech bro startup guys, you know, who just kind

560
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: of like talk a big game and the hopes people

561
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 4: will throw money at them, and then they kind of

562
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: figure it out as they go along, you know. I mean,

563
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: I'm not saying he didn't have some smart ideas or

564
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 4: wasn't working on some interesting stuff, but I just it

565
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: doesn't scream, you know, integrity, integrity. Thanks. Yeah.

566
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's let's play the reindeer games for a

567
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: little bit longer and say let's say, okay, what if,

568
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: just as a thought experiment, what if this was a

569
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: case of homicide.

570
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 4: It is easy to.

571
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: Make someone drowned, you know, and it's not impossible to

572
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: make it look like an accident. So for people who

573
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: believe that Aaron Trewick was murdered, they will raise several

574
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: different once called them species of suspects and their motivations.

575
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: First off is the FDA. We have a quote from

576
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: a guy with a really cool name, Zultan istvan.

577
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 4: Rultan, like the like the machine is Sultan. Yeah, wasn't

578
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 4: that his name wasn't he the great Zultan.

579
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: That's amazing zultan Istvan. He's a futurist who at the

580
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: time he's quoted, he was a Libertarian candidate for the

581
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: governor of California and he was talking to the Independent,

582
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: just great paper out of the UK. I immediately thought

583
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: of an FDA conspiracy theory when I heard that Aaron

584
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: was found dead. Our medical system is not one to

585
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: fined cures, but to keep people alive as long as

586
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: possible while they're sick, to make money off of them.

587
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: And then Tristan Roberts had a quote that also echoes

588
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: sort of the same thing.

589
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, I have always felt that the threat

590
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: from humans profiting off the status quo was greater than

591
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: the experimental therapies themselves. So as though the outside forces

592
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: that control the current medical situation were more dangerous than

593
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: the things that were being injected into yourself on a livestream. Right,

594
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: so interesting.

595
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: The idea here is the gist of it, right, is

596
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: that Treywick is too dangerous or disruptive to the existing

597
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: status quo of medicine and money. And in the case

598
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: of the FDA, the idea is that he was murdered

599
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: because he was threatening the FDA's monopoly on drug approvals

600
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: and clinical trials. And it's actually, I don't want to

601
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: sound insane here, but it's actually pretty difficult to get

602
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: approval for any kind of clinical trial. Back when I

603
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: was trying to buy a transcranial direct current simulation device, yeah,

604
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: you had to jump through a lot of hoops just

605
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: to even get on the phone with someone who would

606
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: sell them. And I was beating my head against this.

607
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: So I can see the appeal of biohacking. You can

608
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: also find some great forms online with instructions to build

609
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: your own transcranial simulation device, but nowadays, luckily well it's

610
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: still kind of gray market. You can buy one as bad.

611
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: Long term effects on your IQ though, so far as

612
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: we know.

613
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 4: Are what are the positive qualities of this thing?

614
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 1: It puts you in. It creates that experience of being

615
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: in the zone. You know, have you ever been, for instance,

616
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: playing music and.

617
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 4: Like a flow state or something.

618
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it puts you. It puts you in a flow state,

619
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: and it will enhance various cognitive abilities at least on

620
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: the short.

621
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: Term, but until it rips them away from you.

622
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but is it a flowers for Alphere's there's not

623
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: very good publicized long term studies of the effects.

624
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 4: And I imagine that would be the case. I don't know.

625
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: I mean, even with FDA trial, it seems like there's

626
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 4: so many medications that we don't fully understand the long, long,

627
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 4: long term effects of sure, even if they've gone through

628
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 4: the proper trial. So I would imagine with some of

629
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: these genetic enhancements or these genetic therapies or whatever, even

630
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 4: if they did fix something up front, who knows if

631
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 4: the problem they caused down the line maybe didn't outweigh

632
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 4: the positive thing they did, you.

633
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: Know, and you know big Pharm will show up later

634
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: in this podcast. But we also should make a point

635
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: that there's some corruption in those FDA trials. If p

636
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: Iiser really wants to get something through, the FDA will

637
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: probably let it happen.

638
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, with all the opiate epidemic stuf we've

639
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 4: been talking about, and they just now approved an opiate

640
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 4: that's like fifty times more potent than oxycontent or something

641
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 4: like that, or it was something like that. I mean,

642
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 4: not that number exactly, I don't quote me on that,

643
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 4: but it was significantly more powerful and concentrated and they're

644
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, it's fine, Yeah, put it out there.

645
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 4: This didn't like cause us like a huge problem before.

646
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: You know, kids are too hyper. Maybe we should just

647
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: give them, you know, opiates for children.

648
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 4: Right, the opiate of the masses, right.

649
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: The opiate of the elementary school classes. Right, you go, then,

650
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: my man, Well, uh, speaking of the FDA, right, they

651
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: refuse to comment on the conspiratorial claims. It's not a

652
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: surprise that they didn't have someone come out and say, hey, guys,

653
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: we know there's been a lot of talk about us

654
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: hunting and killing biohackers. We just want to say that specifically,

655
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: we didn't do Aaron Treywick because that sounds really sketchy.

656
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: So instead, one of their spokespeople pointed to a web

657
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: page that the federal agency published shortly after Tristan Roberts

658
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,720
Speaker 1: injected himself with that attempt at an HIV cre.

659
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 4: But the FDA does have a position on this. I mean,

660
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 4: you know, it's it's a little bit of kind of showmanship,

661
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 4: kind of an almost snake oil salesmanship as well, when

662
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 4: he says, oh, no, it's fine, this isn't actually illegal.

663
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: But my question at the top of the show was, Yeah,

664
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 4: maybe it's not illegal for an individual to try whatever

665
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 4: method of treatment they would like on theirselfs, whether it

666
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 4: be some kind of you know, herbal remedy or injecting

667
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 4: something that's given to them into their body. But at

668
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 4: the same time, it's illegal to take illegal drugs. So

669
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 4: that's obviously that argument doesn't always hold up, does it.

670
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 4: We can't do whatever we want with our bodies, can we? Anyway?

671
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 4: Point being, that's his argument is that whatever an individual

672
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 4: wants to do to their body is okay as long

673
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 4: as that individual gives consent for them to do it.

674
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: The FDA sees it a little differently. This is what

675
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 4: they say. FDA is aware that gene therapy products intended

676
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: for self administration and do it yourself products or kits

677
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 4: rather to produce gene therapies for self administration, are being

678
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 4: made available to the public the sale of these products.

679
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 4: The sale of these products is against the law. FDA

680
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 4: is concerned about the safe deep risks involved. Consumers are

681
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 4: cautioned to make sure that any gene therapy they're using

682
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 4: they're considering using, has either been approved by FDA or

683
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 4: is being studied under appropriate regulatory oversight. As we know

684
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 4: the whole point behind this guy's company was to avoid

685
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 4: regulatory oversight of any kind, to walk around to circumvent

686
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 4: it using this argument of it's my body, I'll do

687
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 4: what I want.

688
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: But we know that that doesn't really hold up, and

689
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: it's not your body as soon as you start selling

690
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: it to other people exactly so it doesn't ring true.

691
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: And then there's the other specie or the related conspiracy

692
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: theory about this that concerns Big Pharma, either operating independently

693
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: or in cooperation with the FDA, and it's pretty much

694
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: the same thing, but they mad live it a little

695
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: and they just switch out FDA for Big Pharma. However,

696
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: there's some pretty significant problems with both of these theories.

697
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: First and for most, multiple people will say that Aaron

698
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: Treywick was much more of a glad hander in a

699
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: publicity hound than you know, someone doing the actual work.

700
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: We've all met people like this, you know. One of

701
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: the sayings I like to throw around is everybody wants

702
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: to eat, no one wants to cook. It's pretty calmon like.

703
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: If you've ever done group work in college, you've probably

704
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: run into a situation where there might be one person

705
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: who's just not just doesn't seem to care, you know,

706
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: but you all get graded accordingly, and your professors, I

707
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I hope they would be understanding. But I've

708
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: been in like I've been in college where that kind

709
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: of stuff happens. And Treywick, according to his critics, again

710
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: this is the view of his critics, was someone who

711
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: was very anxious to take credit for things they didn't

712
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: actually do right and to short change the people, his scientists,

713
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: his contractors is Tristan Roberts and so on, and then

714
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: go on the publicity tours, interview circuits and what have you.

715
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: But if he was that the thing is, if the

716
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: critics are right, and if he was one of those

717
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 1: types of people, murdering him would not solve any of

718
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: the problems for the FDA or Big Pharma, because the

719
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: actual people doing the work and creating these genetic manipulation

720
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: substances would just continue to work, and they, you know,

721
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 1: there's a brutal but possibly valid argument that they might

722
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: do better work once trey Wick was no longer at

723
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: the top and pushing them toward these deadlines that made

724
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: them cut corners. And then secondly, I don't know, this

725
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: is something that feels weird to me about this. Why

726
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: would you engineer a death through ketamine? Like, couldn't you

727
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: have an accent, couldn't you have a car accident, couldn't

728
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: you have something that looks like a heart attack.

729
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: Well, in a way, this was an accidental death, right Yeah, Yeah,

730
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: at least whether there's ketamine or not, the drowning could

731
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 2: have occurred.

732
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 4: I've heard ketamine is a pretty all encompassing, intense situation

733
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 4: where you feel like you're outside of your body and

734
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 4: it's a whole dissociative. I believe the type of drug is,

735
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 4: so I could imagine that it Taking it and being

736
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 4: submerged in a situation like that might not be the

737
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 4: smartest idea.

738
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 2: Although I I hear that it is a common thing

739
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: to take something that would provide some form of hallucinogenic

740
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: effects while in one of.

741
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: These sure tmt LSD.

742
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: But that's what I'm saying.

743
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: I've never thought that as being as that's what they

744
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: call it a K hole, right, Yeah.

745
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 4: I don't know, I've never I've definitely never messed with

746
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 4: anything like that before, but i've you know, it's been

747
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 4: described in movies. It's a club drug in the UK.

748
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 4: It's very popular. People take it and go to raves

749
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 4: and stuff. But I don't understand how that would work

750
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 4: if it's a tranquilizer.

751
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: I thought it was a horse tranquilizer.

752
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: Use for animals. Yeah, but to your to your point, Ben,

753
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 2: everything you've been saying here, it almost it strengthens the

754
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: idea of our third possible suspect. The arguments you're making

755
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 2: about his personality, how he function and within the company,

756
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 2: how he functioned on a work level, it does make

757
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 2: it seem like maybe it was somebody who he had wronged.

758
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say someone killed him, not because of his

759
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: talent for you know, bilking the work of others, but

760
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: for some sort of personal vendetta. Right, Let's talk about

761
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: those upset investors and or those rivals in the biohacking community.

762
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: Former business partner guy named Rich Lee noted that Treywick

763
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: had ripped off partners, ripped off researchers, and ripped off

764
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: the public. He also Treywick, that is, allegedly owed money

765
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: to fellow biohackers. Originally, Lee and all these partners thought

766
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: that Treywick was very professional and he was supposed to

767
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: issue them all shares or stock in a company, but

768
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: Lee says he screwed them all over. Also Lee, it's

769
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: a side note about Rich Lee. He originally one of

770
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: his breakthrough inventions was a piece of wet where a

771
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: vibrating penile implant called the Lovetron nine thousand, and that's

772
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: he was interacting with Treyewick in this regard. Uh wait wait,

773
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: he was interacting well sorry, sorry, sorry, in a business

774
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: sense regarding this invention. Treywick wanted to own seventy five

775
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: percent of the profits made from sale of the device

776
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: in exchange for providing funding, and Treywick only offered to

777
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: pay him five grand to get it off the ground,

778
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: and he said, mister Lee had to pre sell the

779
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: implant before it was finished and tested. And then, you know,

780
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: Lee understandably is thinking, I can't pre sell somebody an

781
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: implant for their genitalia unless I'm convinced it's both going

782
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: to happen and happen safely. Did you say the name

783
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: of the thing, love Tron nine Thousandron?

784
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 4: Yeah?

785
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: I did.

786
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 4: I love that, I love Tron, that.

787
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: You loved Tron nine thousand of that right, So now

788
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 1: we go back to Tristan Roberts's original joke about faking

789
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: one's own death committing pseudo side lee, it turns out

790
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: takes this idea seriously.

791
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a quote here it says big pharma

792
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: and government conspiracy theories started springing up after his death,

793
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: But my first instinct was that he'd faked his own

794
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: death and fled the country. Given the controversy surrounding him,

795
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: some people suspected it would have been a hit, that

796
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: another biohacker could have done it, And it does look

797
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 2: pretty suspicious from the outside. You'd point to a feud

798
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 2: between biohackers.

799
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 4: What few we really seen like a real, you know,

800
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 4: tooth and nail fight between him and any other specific biohackers.

801
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: Are these people that gangster? It's a good question, that's

802
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: That's the thing. It seems more like people resented him

803
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: and seems that he many people do feel like he

804
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: stole their money essentially, or swindled them, or stole their.

805
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 4: Work, or even stole their kind of cred in a

806
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 4: way by like being so vocal and like outspoken on

807
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 4: the Internet and kind of hogging the limelight in a way.

808
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 4: Whereas I almost want to it feels to me like

809
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 4: some of these communities would prefer to be a little

810
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 4: more underground.

811
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Like how much of it is wringling brothers,

812
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: You know how much of it is sound and fury? Right.

813
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: And it's strange because after Treywick lost his shareholders or

814
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: high skidaddled with their stuff, he started going really hard

815
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: on his employees. He would announce these unrealistic deadlines to

816
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: the media, to the public, and then he would pressure

817
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: his researchers again, the people doing the work to cut

818
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: corners on science to meet these crazy deadlines. It sounds

819
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: a little bit like he was impulsively talking for a

820
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: reaction in the moment and promising things that couldn't happen.

821
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: This is also very common in politicians.

822
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, or a purposeful way to put pressure on his employees,

823
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: just like put it out there while I said it,

824
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: so now we gotta do it.

825
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: This also, this deadline rush and this kind of unsustainable

826
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: growth that he was pushing for, makes Lee believe a

827
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: suicide is plausible. He says that Aaron was suing a

828
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 1: few friends and media outlets for defamation, but two weeks

829
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: before his death on the twenty ninth, he dropped all

830
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: of the lawsuits. Then he had a deadline coming up

831
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: in a couple of days, one that there was no

832
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: way in hell he was going to make. So does

833
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: this mean that maybe he hit a wall of burnout

834
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: and desperation and decided to quietly take his own life.

835
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: If so, that's tough to say because how many people

836
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: choose that method of self extermination.

837
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: Well, there's, okay, a couple of things really fast. I

838
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: gotta point to the fact that ketamine can take you

839
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 2: to that state of euphoria where perhaps if you knew

840
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: you were going to die or kill yourself, you would

841
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 2: not experience the pain and terror and horror of passing over.

842
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: Like LSD with Elvis Huxley.

843
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 2: But it's it's like, yeah, kind of like that where

844
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 2: it's been used before. I believe ketamine itself has been used.

845
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: I know several drugs have been in assisted suicide to

846
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: let people die without experiencing the existential.

847
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 4: But he didn't overdose. He didn't There's nothing in his

848
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 4: system that indicated that he took a drug to kill himself.

849
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: He drowned, but perhaps not to overdose, but to die

850
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: while on it. I'm just putting it.

851
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 4: That's interesting. I'm just kind of being Devil's avogat here.

852
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 4: It's interesting concept. I would lean much more towards an

853
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 4: accidental drowning that's while intoxicated.

854
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: I think that's that's where the story seems to lead us.

855
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: You know, right now people still believe that there was

856
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: something greater at play. Again, the primary thing is that

857
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: if if a large private or governmental organization was going

858
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: to remove someone from the picture for this kind of

859
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: genetic manipulation, it's far more likely that they would remove

860
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: the people actually doing the manipulation, actually doing the research.

861
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: They wouldn't They wouldn't need to get rid of someone

862
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: who was more of a networker and publicity person. They

863
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: would need to get rid of the scientists. And that's

864
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: where we're at with this story. We would love to

865
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: hear if you're listening and you're part of the biohacking community,

866
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear your take.

867
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 2: And I would completely agree with you, Ben, if it

868
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 2: wasn't for that a jar door.

869
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, there we go see, because.

870
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 2: If he was in that sensory deprivation tank and he

871
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 2: drowned in that sensory deprivation tank before it was drained,

872
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: who opened that door?

873
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: Is it possible that an employee opened it, found him

874
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: dead and said like, I'm not I'm just gonna go.

875
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 4: Maybe he was just raised in a barn.

876
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe just sting clothes. But no because the person

877
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: who puts him in the tank would have to leave

878
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: the room. Yeah, exactly, So maybe they were raised in

879
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: a barnet.

880
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 2: I don't know.

881
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 4: That possible. Some part of the story was raised in

882
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 4: a barn.

883
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: It's possible that there's a big barn element that we

884
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:16,479
Speaker 1: have not considered yet.

885
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 4: A man is dead, you guys, I know, I know

886
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 4: it is.

887
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: It is true. The loss of human life is always

888
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: a tragedy, regardless of how how people may or may

889
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: not feel about Aaron Treywick. If you think that he

890
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: was fighting the good fight and pushing technology forward, you

891
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: can agree it's a loss. If you thought, you know,

892
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: they was more of a swindler and a credit thief,

893
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 1: then it's still a tragic thing. It's a tragic event

894
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: when someone dies. It is important to note if we're

895
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 1: talking about the actual medicine. This is another argument maybe

896
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: against the FDA idea. Neither the herpes nor the HIV

897
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: treatment actually worked. In fact, the guy who was self

898
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: injected to the HIV treatment. His viral load.

899
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 4: Increased, I believe after the injection, and he went back

900
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 4: on his traditional HIV cocktail right.

901
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: However, people in the community generally agree that love or hate,

902
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: like or dislike Aaron Treewick brought much more attention to

903
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: the transhumanist cause, even and his opponents are still seeing

904
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: bad things about the guy, even if it was just

905
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: a cautionary tale about how to not go about doing things.

906
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: They had two small addendums that might be of interest.

907
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: So right before his death, Aaron Trewick was planning a

908
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 1: crisper trial in Mexico at a place called the International

909
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: Biocare Hospital and Wellness Center, and the MIT Technology Review

910
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: followed up on this lead. They did a great job

911
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: and they found that yes there was a trial. It's

912
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: going to be for lung cancer. People had to pay.

913
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: Participants had to pay twenty five dollars at first to

914
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: have Aaron Trewick I guess evaluate them or interview them

915
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: to see if they were a good fit for the trial.

916
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: And the clinic confirms that they were in talks. They

917
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: did get pretty far along in the process, but they're

918
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: not going to go forward with the trial. Now that

919
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: Treywick has passed away, So is somebody attempting to stop

920
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: that trial specifically?

921
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it seems like, again to our earlier points,

922
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 2: the company could have continued along with that trial.

923
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that is true. But you know, maybe

924
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: he's the lynchpin. It sounds like he was organizing a

925
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: lot of stuff. Here's the last addendum though, you guys

926
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: remember recently, I think we had talked about this a

927
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: little bit off here, maybe on our Facebook page. Here's

928
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, shameless plug the story of the

929
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: Chinese scientists who claimed to have made the world's first

930
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,240
Speaker 1: genetically modified children.

931
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, also an ethical quandary, right, because he sort of

932
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 4: followed it actually a similar path as this story that

933
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 4: we're telling today, where he kind of did a lot

934
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,239
Speaker 4: of this stuff outside of oversight and then present did

935
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 4: the findings. And I believe a YouTube video of some

936
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 4: kind or some kind of internet stream.

937
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 1: He made an appearance at the second International Someone on

938
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: Human Genome Editing in Hong Kong.

939
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 4: He did do something though, where he revealed some part

940
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 4: of his research online.

941
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 1: I think it went viral or somethingbody they recorded him saying, yeah, yeah.

942
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 4: And I think the people in the room, though the

943
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 4: perspective was largely like pearl clutching and gasping is like, yeah,

944
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 4: what the hell like you can't do that.

945
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially when you're in a room full of scientists

946
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 1: who are saying, look, we're trying not to scare people.

947
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: Bro the here's the thing about that scientist. The story

948
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: just broke on December third today as we were he

949
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: is missing amid rumors of an arrest. Okay, no one

950
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: knows where he is, and they say he was placed

951
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: under house arrest in Shinjun after the conference, but his

952
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: former workplace says the detention claims are inaccurate. We don't

953
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: know where he is.

954
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 2: Well, is this another episode?

955
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: It very well? Maybe, but it's yeah, it's probably a

956
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: story for a different day. You know. Maybe maybe a

957
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: science was bad, maybe he got carried away, but I

958
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: don't think that's a reason for him to get disappeared.

959
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe there's something else going on. Might have to

960
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: look into it, all right, So what do you think

961
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 2: you got to write to us? You gotta tell us.

962
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: Go on, here's where it gets crazy. Let's have a

963
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: discussion about this one. This feels like a good one.

964
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 4: Facebook.

965
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: It is on Facebook. Ben already plugged it really hard.

966
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: It's a quick Plug's a smooth, smooth slide into a

967
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: segue plug.

968
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 2: So so find us on Facebook or on Twitter where

969
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 2: we're conspiracy stuff on Instagram where a conspiracy stuff show.

970
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do those things, you can

971
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 2: give us a call one eight three three SDD tell

972
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: you why DK. That's right, leave a message you might

973
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 2: get on the air. We're gonna have another one of

974
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: those pretty soon. We got to do that. And what

975
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: else here? We just we just want to have a

976
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 2: discussion about this one. Really, there's a lot of crazy

977
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: stuff going on in this in this story, and we

978
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: want to see maybe you if you've uncumbered something in

979
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 2: this realm, in this world where Aaron Treywick existed, that

980
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 2: is so murky.

981
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: And what do you think about biohacking in general? Yeah,

982
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: that's the thing. So this is an interesting, tangentially related

983
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: thing and we'll get out of here before Michigan Control

984
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: kills us. Should it be illegal for people to use

985
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: performance enhancing drugs or technology in the world of sports?

986
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: I asked this because in the old days of baseball,

987
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: using a baseball glove was considered unsportsmanlike and cheating.

988
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 4: Really, yeah, I didn't know that. You're just supposed to

989
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 4: bare knuckle it, Yes, bare knuckle it.

990
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember in the two thousands when it

991
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: was illegal to take steroids. It was a crazy time.

992
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 1: It's funny.

993
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 4: That's funny, Matt. I like what you did there. Hey,

994
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 4: if you don't want.

995
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: To and that's the end of this classic episode. If

996
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 2: you have any thought or questions about this episode, you

997
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 2: can get into contact with us in a number of

998
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: different ways. One of the best is to give us

999
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three st DWYTK.

1000
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do that, you can send

1001
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:15,720
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1002
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1003
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1004
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1005
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.