WEBVTT - Should politicians be funny? (with Mike Birbiglia) 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.680 I'm Manny, I'm Noah, this is Devin and this is 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.160 no such thing. The show where we settle our drum 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.800 arguments and yours by actually doing the research. On today's episode, 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.360 should Politicians be Funny? And his humor kind of a 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.639 cheat code to getting elected? As always, we'll talk to 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:32.199 an expert, but then stick around for my conversation with 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:33.960 comedian Mike Verbiglia. 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:38.199 What a deeply unfunny person. He doesn't have it. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:47.280 No, there's no no such thing, no touch thing, touch, thank. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:50.280 Touch, thank. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:53.280 Touch thank. 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.240 All right, boys, I was influenced to do this episode 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:09.600 based on some recent activity by one Gavin Newsom. In case, yeah, 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.520 in case you're someone in the audience who literally does 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.240 not consume one ounce of politics. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:15.160 Uh. 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.520 While a lot of our audience is international, many assume 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:20.240 they know American politics. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:25.640 I'm sorry for for huge in Australia. Yeah, I'm sorry 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:30.480 for doing international erasure. But Gavin Newsom is a Democrat. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:35.000 He's the former mayor of San Francisco. He's the current 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:41.880 governor of California. He's kind of like your archetypal politician, right, 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.440 He's like literally got slicked back here. He's always wearing 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:48.760 a suit, very polished, he's got the veneers good talk, 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.120 or if he doesn't have veneers, don't sue me. He's 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.440 got really great teeth. Yeah, it would be amazy if 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.120 if he doesn't have a credit veneers congratulations, and he's 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.040 probably going to be running for president. Is we've come 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:09.200 to terms with that by now, Perhaps because of this 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:14.040 impending presidential run, Gavin Newsom and his team have turned 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:19.240 up the aggression, let's say, towards Donald Trump. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.160 And we need to stand up to this authoritary. We 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.800 need to stand up at this moment, fighting fire with fire. 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.880 I'm going to punch these sons of bitches in the mouth. 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.440 And one of the ways Gavin Newsom is doing this 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:34.200 is by using humor. They are mocking Donald Trump on 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.240 social media. 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.400 So just to look at some of the tweets here, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.320 all capital letters Trump and. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:43.200 Very trump like. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.600 It's obviously trying to go Trump and get at tension. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:53.440 Basically, Donald Trump uses a very specific syntax in his posts. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:57.480 He does all caps, sometimes he capitalizes words that don't 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.600 need to be capitalized, he puts quotes aroun words that 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.560 don't need quotes, and the Gavin Teae is writing parody 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.240 versions of those except to push their own agenda. 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:13.440 In one post, Gavin Newsom calls maga Republicans quote snowflakes 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.880 and all caps, and another he says this quote Donald 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.120 is finished. He is no longer hot. First the hands 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.079 so tiny, and now me, Gavin C. Newsom have taken 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.520 away his step. Many are saying he can't even do 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.040 the big stairs on Air Force one anymore, uses the 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.720 little baby stairs now sad. 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.160 While conservatives argue that this is childish and silly. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.120 If I run his wife, I would say, you are 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:43.760 making a fool of yourself. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:44.520 Stop it. 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:46.720 He's got a big job as governor of California, but 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.240 if he wants an even bigger job, he has to 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:49.400 be a little bit more serious. 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:53.560 Democrats have been saying, yeah, that's kind of the whole point. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.480 I freaking love what Governor Newsom is doing because that's 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.480 what offense looks like. And I'm tired of being told, 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.680 you know, when they go low, we go high. I mean, 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.160 the way I see it, when they go low, we 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:10.360 should bury their ideas below the capitol. 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.680 So this was going on throughout twenty twenty five, but 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.839 as recently as a few days ago on New Year's Eve, 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.440 Gavin's press team posted this happy New Year to everyone, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:30.200 especially the deeply disturbed losers suffering from extreme Newsome derangement syndrome. 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.320 Speaking of losers, I hope Donald Trump has the twenty 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.599 twenty six quote he deserves after unleashing chaos on the 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.360 people of this great country. But I want to play you, guys, 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.719 Gavin Newsom on Stephen Colbert's show. He responds to the 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.000 reaction that he's been getting to some of the stuff. 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:48.720 Two kings. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:50.840 Everything we were doing and try to break through wasn't 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.600 working anymore. And so we decided to do something right 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.599 to your point, a novel called Humor. And I gotta say, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.400 oftentimes Democrats we're little, you know, we just we don't 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.440 We're not as humorous as we should be. Little staff 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.320 could be a little stiff. Yeah, And so we thought 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.520 we'd have some fun with it. But I never imagined 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:10.040 it would break through like it has and get under 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.120 the skin of the President of the United States and 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:13.040 some of my friends. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.920 I thought it was interesting that this kind of usage, 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:22.479 deliberate usage of humor in a political strategy. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:26.720 Especially as Newsom says, they try other things and they 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.240 didn't break through. Right, So this wasn't the first thing 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.560 on their list, but it's the thing that they think 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:33.200 has worked. 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:38.000 Yeah, and he's obviously not the first politician to try 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:42.320 and inject comedy or humor into his political strategy. You've 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.240 got people like Donald Trump, who sometimes makes you laugh 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.680 by accident, like you're laughing at him, but sometimes it's 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.840 saying stuff that's supposed to make you laugh. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.320 Is visceral response to attack people on their appearance. 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.440 I never attacked him on his look. And believe me, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.800 there's plenty of subject matter right there. 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:00.720 That I can tell. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.560 You know, We've got characters like Eric Adams, who like 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.880 is saying some absolutely insane. 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:09.919 Shiit n life may I I got to test the product. 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.040 But he I think he knows that he's hilarious. Yeah, 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.800 I'm curious. Do you guys feel like humor is a 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.599 successful strategy for politicians to appear more relatable? Like, have 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.560 we just been seeing very specific cases? Do we feel 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:27.880 largely that they should stick to policy? 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.839 Well, it's interesting because the conversation today is so focused 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.320 on like their social media accounts, which it's like, Gavin's 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.600 not in the lab photoshop making this up. You know what? 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.800 I mean, so it's like that that to me adds 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:40.400 a layer where I'm like, all right, this isn't you. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.000 This is like a bunch of whatever thirty year olds 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.200 who work for you making that makes it like this 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.320 distance where it's like, well, I don't even think you're funny, 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.440 you know. I think a lot of politicians, you know, 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.680 It's like Obama was funny famously. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.280 The White House correspondent, like he was very like. 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.000 Good comic timing and like that is relatable, or like, 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:00.680 you know, Bernie Sanders is funny when he's and like, 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:02.880 you know, dismissing something or whatever. Like So, I mean, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.920 I think it's a good and normal human thing to 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.359 use humor. I don't think it should be like the 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.920 bulk of your political strategy. It's like the who would 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:13.440 you want to get. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:13.680 A beer with? 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.560 Thing? Like I remember when our boy George W. Bush 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.160 was elected. That was like the big thing. It's like 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.160 he seems like a chummy guy. Yeah, It's like and 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.160 like that counts for something. It's like, Okay, can this 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.040 be someone I could relate to in a normal human way. 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:29.000 Yeah. 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.680 I think people are over estimating the power of humor 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.600 because I think what people associate humor with is like 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.600 authenticity or like not being guarded or buttoned up. But 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.960 if you're not naturally funny or you're forcing humor, it 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:45.920 also doesn't work. 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:46.040 Right. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.800 We've seen plenty of examples of like really stuffy politicians 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.880 trying to be funny and it's like, yeah, okay, this 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:53.000 is even worse. 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.640 Jd Vance with the yeah. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.760 Jd Vance is like someone who famously is not funny, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.000 right like, and he tries and it doesn't connect. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:01.240 Right. 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.800 So, I think like a politician could be not trying 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.920 to be funny, but just a little bit less guarded, 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:12.120 a little bit more relaxed, a little less worried about 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:16.280 saying the wrong thing at all times or not saying 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.360 anything at all because you're so afraid of what you like, 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.520 who you may upset. I think that more so is 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.320 more important than like a politician being funny. 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.800 Yeah, I think you guys are right about this. Essentially, 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.320 with no was saying about would you get a beer 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.680 with this person, it's like this ability for the politician 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.000 to be able to hang essentially. I've been watching unfortunately 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.920 the Flagrant podcast and you just you see politicians go 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.320 on there and you start to wonder the value of 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.320 like them being in that kind of environment. Obviously, Donald 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.400 Trump went on there last year and they were just 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.200 kind of kissing his ass, so it doesn't count. But 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.080 Pete Boodajudge went on, and I was kind of surprised 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.440 by how easily he kind of melted into that, into 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:57.080 that environment. 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.559 You can't privatize the public park, right, this is the 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.480 all I do, public goods, why we have governments, why 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:03.320 we collect taxes. 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.439 Were turning to such libs already. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.480 Dude, and it literally made me as like a voter 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:09.680 be like oh interesting, Like I didn't know that he 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.760 had this side to him. At the same time, I 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.480 could never imagine Kamala Harris being on that show, because 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.400 some Democrats are so risk averse, not able to be 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.800 an environment where like the questions weren't approved ahead of 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.840 time and that kind of stuff I think gets to people. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.120 And it's frustrating with her specifically, because I do think 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.000 she has it in her, like I you know, we've 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.160 obviously seen clips and instances of like like her talking 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.280 about cooking and shit. It's just like you can be normal. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.280 Yeah, No, she seems a lot more normal if she 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:41.560 would let herself be that way. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:42.720 Yeah, that's what's so funny. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:43.200 Where was this? 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:44.960 They're going back and forth about her not being on 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:46.880 Joe Rogan or whatever, and it's like, I actually think 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.280 if she was able to relax and go on something 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.840 like that, she could be good. Yeah, but like she's 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.280 so trained up that she won't. But yeah, when she 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.800 talked about cooking or whatever, like after a speech or whatever, 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:58.960 talking to just people. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.800 I should be calling you, Harris, you should not. 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:03.319 That's not on my birth certificate. 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:04.880 Okay, just don't call me, Auntie. 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:06.559 I won't call you. 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.560 You could see you know one how she got to 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:10.120 where she is. 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.079 Yeah, there was a moment the Mama Lass stuff where 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.160 it was like, Okay, this does feel kind of relatable. 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.320 But then you hear stories like the Subway Takes Guy, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.120 where it's this viral show where you go on and 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.000 give a hot take. Apparently Kamala went on during the 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:28.280 campaign and had a take that was so focused, group tested, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.520 and awkward that everyone just mutually decided to scrap the episode. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.320 Her take was that bad. It was really really bad. 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.760 Then it was it was like, didn't make any sense. 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.360 I can tell you this. I was bacon as a spice, you. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:42.120 Think that was her opinion. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:43.920 You thinks you had like a research group trying to 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:44.559 figure something. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.880 That research group. And then I was like, if I 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:48.640 post this, a lot of people are going to be 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:49.120 out at me. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:49.640 Now. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:54.920 Counter example, Zorn Mundani, newly elected mayor of New York City. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.040 You know, not like the funniest guy ever, but one 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.760 can easily see the effect a politician can have when 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:06.960 they're able to be themselves, regardless of the situation or environment. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.240 But speaking of the effect that politicians can have, we're 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.080 going to be hearing from a humor historian who's going 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.760 to walk us through the history of humor in politics, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.200 and then we're going to hear from actual comedian Mike Birbiglia. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:33.959 That's after the break. We're back. I'm Anny, I'm Noah Devin, 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.520 and we're about to hear from doctor Mark Rolf. He 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:43.000 is an expert in the history of humor in politics. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.720 He's a professor at the University of New South Wales 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.480 in Sydney. And here I'll just have him introduce himself. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.760 Well, basically, I've always been interested in politics, humor and 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.920 history since childhood. I've basically built a career out of 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.960 those three things combined. I treat satire as really a 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.200 species of rhetoric, an offshoot of rhetric. So humor and 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.560 satire generally as means of persuasion. 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:14.920 Okay, So before we get into the weeds, I do 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.719 love to talk about these kind of topics more existentially. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.920 So I asked him what even is humor? Why do 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:24.400 we laugh? 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.680 The term humor is an ancient one, but up until 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:38.400 about three four hundred years ago, it was part of medicine. 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:45.319 Humor or humors referred to the four liquids of ancient 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:51.760 and medieval medicine black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood, 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:57.679 and the balance of these four liquids dictated your temperaments. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.400 That's why we can still say sometimes, oh, he's in 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:05.080 a bit of bad humor. Split humor from laughter, they're 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.720 not the same. But the way we've talked about the 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.760 two together during the three hundred years, but particularly the 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:18.839 last two hundred years, we've said humor and laughter are equivalent. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.080 If there's laughter, there's been a joke, Okay, But when 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.440 you think about it, there's laughter for a range of 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.120 reasons without jokes. Okay, you tickle a baby, the baby laughs, 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:35.440 there's no joke. Obviously, there can be release of joy, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:41.040 physical effects that are good without any joke. The Vikings 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:45.000 they laughed with scorn without jokes. They laughed with scorn 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.559 at enemies, and they would laugh at violence. Aristotle the 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.679 philosopher talks about how Greeks would laugh at unkliness. What 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.800 I'm pointing to is a range of different things that 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:02.800 we laugh at as human and as one philosopher called 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.400 Henry booksOn said, laughter is in need of an echo. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.640 It's part of our sociality. We can laugh in our 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.040 own but when we laugh with others, we are establishing 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:15.440 bones with them as well. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.440 So this segment really made me think about people like 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:29.400 Eric Adams, Yes, and even Curtis Leewa, who is the 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.880 Republican nominee for mayor of New York City, Like, are 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.320 we laughing with them or at them? If we're gonna 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.960 split humor and laughter a part as concepts. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.080 Even with President Trump, Yeah, there are times where he 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.040 makes a joke that will make me laugh, and there's 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.200 times where he's not making a joke and I'm cracking out. 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.920 Yeah, Yeah, I was serious. I wondered about kind of 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.680 the ratio with someone like Donald Trump, for example, Like, 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.400 if we're gonna say he's funny, maybe we want to 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.240 quantify what percentage of the things he's saying is supposed 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.120 to make you laugh versus what is just you know, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:08.440 we're just like this guy's insane. 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.600 I think more than lots of left leaning people would 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:16.560 admit he's purposeful. Yeah, Like, I think a lot of 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.200 times he's trying to be funny and often succeeding, and 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.000 people are laughing at him, maybe thinking they're laughing at him, 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:25.080 but they're laughing with him. 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.800 Yeah, like not we're not not clocking that he is 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:29.280 trying to be. 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.520 Fun or like not giving credit where it's due basically 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.520 and more generally thinking about what he just said there 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.840 where it's like, I'm much more likely to laugh out 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.480 loud if I'm in a movie theater or watching something 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.360 with another person than if I'm sitting by myself watching 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.520 a movie, Like it's really hard to get a real 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.200 laugh out of me by myself. And obviously that's not 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.400 like a conscious thing, but it is something like I'm 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:52.160 signaling that. 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:53.280 I got the joke, I guess. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.880 Yeah, it's interesting to think about that community aspect of laughter. 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:59.640 Yeah, it makes me think of like memes, even where 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:01.880 like the point of it is a kind of a 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:06.400 communal reaction to the content. So one thing I wanted 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.160 to ask doctor Rolf to do was give me a 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:13.440 brief overview of the history of humor in politics, because 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.400 something I learned when I was reading about his work 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.880 is that this is kind of a relatively new concept. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:30.680 Much of what we know about humor started around three 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.000 hundred years ago in Britain, and we carry on many 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:37.320 of the ideas, especially this idea of political satire from 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.640 the British, and that went to colonial America and all 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.760 the British literature of that time. So you've got the 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.520 concept of humor, and then you get later on with 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:52.760 the British the idea of a national humor, and then 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:59.240 America imparts its twist on the idea in the eighteen seventies, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.480 with the set of humor being a good individual thing 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.480 that a person can be admired for having a good 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.280 sense of humor and a little bit suspect for not 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.480 having a good sense of humor. So in that way, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:14.920 when you look at the history of a lot of 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:20.840 our ideas, you find that they're not as universal as 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:28.760 we might think that they have really short periods in 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.560 the scheme of things. I've looked at how some of 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:37.040 these things went to America, and how American ideas of humor, 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.399 vaudeville and the invention of the joke that we know 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.719 today was also an invention of America in the eighteen 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.840 seventies and eighties, when you've got a huge creation of 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.159 a mass entertainment circuit going on and the creation of 0:17:54.880 --> 0:18:00.199 joke writers. The anonymous two or three line joke that 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:05.399 we know today an American invention. Seta gets used these days, 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:10.480 particularly in America, as a means of political identity. So 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.400 a lot of Americans consume their news in a line 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.639 with their views, and they consume satire or humor in 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:19.680 line with their views. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.120 As your slogan says Fox News, we read the chain 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.199 mails your grandma gets in her inbox out loud like 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:26.040 they were true. 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.919 And obviously it lines up with this issue of polarization 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:29.680 of America. 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.639 So I thought it was interesting that humor historically is 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.679 something that we use to grade like a human being, 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.840 Like you might think someone is a great person, but 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:42.520 if they're not funny, it's kind of suspect. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.119 Well, even if they're not funny, then you have to 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.159 know what is funny, you know, like every dating prompt 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.520 effort is like you must have a good sense of humor, 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.800 or every love island, they're like what your type. It's like, 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.080 you know, really great banter, like great sense of humor. 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.399 So like being it if you're not the one telling jokes, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.560 being able to laugh at jokes is very important. I 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.919 feel like it's just like a roundabout way of being like, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.159 not like someone who has like a stick up their ass. 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:10.760 Yeah. 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.240 And I also thought it was interesting that the kind 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:17.920 of concept of a joke is pretty new and also American. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:24.080 In the seventies, I wasna say, I was going through 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.479 some stuff in my head. It's not gonna say this 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:27.080 guy's wrong. 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:29.560 How old is this guy? 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.679 And I do think he means like in a formal 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:38.399 like he was saying like specific was telling jokes, the 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.960 kind of anonymous as he calls it, an anonymous two 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:41.840 or three line joke. 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:45.360 The new version, the modern version of what we consider 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.040 a joke, not like the slapstick stuff of the past. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.360 Right, So we today have our kind of modern day 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.879 examples of politicians using humor in politics. But I asked 0:19:56.920 --> 0:20:00.560 doctor Rolf if there were any famous examples in the 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.360 past that those of us who are so young might 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:05.720 not be acquainted with. 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.240 You can go back to John F. Kennedy. Given what 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.359 I've said about the history before, we think more highly 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.320 a person who displays a good sense of humor, and 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.760 that's when we commend them for having wit. So we 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.639 think that they're a bit superior, bit more intellectual, a 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.920 bit more classes. That's how John Kennedy used humor. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.040 What have you done for the women according to the 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.240 promises of the platform. 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:39.920 I'm sure we haven't done enough. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:47.960 And so people often look back to his press conferences 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.560 in which he's charming the journalists nearby, but also the 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.800 TV viewers with his sense of humor. You've also got 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:04.520 ron Reagan. He employed a comedic writer called Doug Gamble, 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:10.399 and there was a famous line in the nineteen eighty 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.760 four election against Walter Mondo, and the issue of Ronald 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.479 Reagan's age come up. You might know the crip. 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.639 You already are the oldest president in history, and some 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:21.800 of your staff say you are tired after your most 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.800 recent encounter with mister Mondale. Is there any doubt in 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.119 your mind that you would be able to function in 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:29.240 such circumstances. 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.560 I will not make age an issue of this campaign. 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:37.199 I am not going to exploit for political purposes my 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:39.360 opponent's youth and inexperience. 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:46.160 That cuip was written by Doug Gamble. Doug Gamble has 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.160 also contributed some crips to Donald Trump. Some people didn't 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.919 take it quite as a joke, but he's lined about 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.840 oh jijimping being president for life is now. 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.000 They wanted to give that a shout some day. 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.920 Okay, that came from Doug Gamble. Those are some of 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.920 the ways in which politicians can use HUMA, as well 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:17.680 as using CUMA as an attack dog against opponents. 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.280 So I knew politicians could be funny naturally, but I 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:30.240 didn't know that they were like actually hiring comedians, not 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:32.880 really to make their speeches funny, but to just have 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:34.680 little bits here and there. 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:36.719 Yeah I need to do that. 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:39.560