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Speaker 1: I'm Manny, I'm Noah, this is Devin and this is

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Speaker 1: no such thing. The show where we settle our drum

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Speaker 1: arguments and yours by actually doing the research. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: should Politicians be Funny? And his humor kind of a

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Speaker 1: cheat code to getting elected? As always, we'll talk to

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Speaker 1: an expert, but then stick around for my conversation with

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Speaker 1: comedian Mike Verbiglia.

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Speaker 2: What a deeply unfunny person. He doesn't have it.

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Speaker 3: No, there's no no such thing, no touch thing, touch, thank.

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Speaker 4: Touch, thank.

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Speaker 5: Touch thank.

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Speaker 1: All right, boys, I was influenced to do this episode

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Speaker 1: based on some recent activity by one Gavin Newsom. In case, yeah,

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Speaker 1: in case you're someone in the audience who literally does

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Speaker 1: not consume one ounce of politics.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 7: While a lot of our audience is international, many assume

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Speaker 7: they know American politics.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry for for huge in Australia. Yeah, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: for doing international erasure. But Gavin Newsom is a Democrat.

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Speaker 1: He's the former mayor of San Francisco. He's the current

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Speaker 1: governor of California. He's kind of like your archetypal politician, right,

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Speaker 1: He's like literally got slicked back here. He's always wearing

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Speaker 1: a suit, very polished, he's got the veneers good talk,

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Speaker 1: or if he doesn't have veneers, don't sue me. He's

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Speaker 1: got really great teeth. Yeah, it would be amazy if

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Speaker 1: if he doesn't have a credit veneers congratulations, and he's

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Speaker 1: probably going to be running for president. Is we've come

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Speaker 1: to terms with that by now, Perhaps because of this

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Speaker 1: impending presidential run, Gavin Newsom and his team have turned

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Speaker 1: up the aggression, let's say, towards Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: And we need to stand up to this authoritary. We

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Speaker 3: need to stand up at this moment, fighting fire with fire.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to punch these sons of bitches in the mouth.

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Speaker 1: And one of the ways Gavin Newsom is doing this

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Speaker 1: is by using humor. They are mocking Donald Trump on

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Speaker 1: social media.

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Speaker 6: So just to look at some of the tweets here,

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Speaker 6: all capital letters Trump and.

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Speaker 5: Very trump like.

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Speaker 8: It's obviously trying to go Trump and get at tension.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Donald Trump uses a very specific syntax in his posts.

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Speaker 1: He does all caps, sometimes he capitalizes words that don't

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Speaker 1: need to be capitalized, he puts quotes aroun words that

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Speaker 1: don't need quotes, and the Gavin Teae is writing parody

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Speaker 1: versions of those except to push their own agenda.

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Speaker 9: In one post, Gavin Newsom calls maga Republicans quote snowflakes

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Speaker 9: and all caps, and another he says this quote Donald

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Speaker 9: is finished. He is no longer hot. First the hands

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Speaker 9: so tiny, and now me, Gavin C. Newsom have taken

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Speaker 9: away his step. Many are saying he can't even do

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Speaker 9: the big stairs on Air Force one anymore, uses the

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Speaker 9: little baby stairs now sad.

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Speaker 1: While conservatives argue that this is childish and silly.

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Speaker 9: If I run his wife, I would say, you are

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Speaker 9: making a fool of yourself.

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Speaker 6: Stop it.

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Speaker 9: He's got a big job as governor of California, but

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Speaker 9: if he wants an even bigger job, he has to

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Speaker 9: be a little bit more serious.

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Speaker 1: Democrats have been saying, yeah, that's kind of the whole point.

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Speaker 10: I freaking love what Governor Newsom is doing because that's

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Speaker 10: what offense looks like. And I'm tired of being told,

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Speaker 10: you know, when they go low, we go high. I mean,

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Speaker 10: the way I see it, when they go low, we

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Speaker 10: should bury their ideas below the capitol.

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Speaker 1: So this was going on throughout twenty twenty five, but

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Speaker 1: as recently as a few days ago on New Year's Eve,

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Speaker 1: Gavin's press team posted this happy New Year to everyone,

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Speaker 1: especially the deeply disturbed losers suffering from extreme Newsome derangement syndrome.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of losers, I hope Donald Trump has the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six quote he deserves after unleashing chaos on the

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Speaker 1: people of this great country. But I want to play you, guys,

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Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom on Stephen Colbert's show. He responds to the

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Speaker 1: reaction that he's been getting to some of the stuff.

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Speaker 10: Two kings.

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Speaker 3: Everything we were doing and try to break through wasn't

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Speaker 3: working anymore. And so we decided to do something right

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Speaker 3: to your point, a novel called Humor. And I gotta say,

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Speaker 3: oftentimes Democrats we're little, you know, we just we don't

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Speaker 3: We're not as humorous as we should be. Little staff

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Speaker 3: could be a little stiff. Yeah, And so we thought

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Speaker 3: we'd have some fun with it. But I never imagined

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Speaker 3: it would break through like it has and get under

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Speaker 3: the skin of the President of the United States and

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Speaker 3: some of my friends.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting that this kind of usage,

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Speaker 1: deliberate usage of humor in a political strategy.

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Speaker 7: Especially as Newsom says, they try other things and they

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Speaker 7: didn't break through. Right, So this wasn't the first thing

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Speaker 7: on their list, but it's the thing that they think

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Speaker 7: has worked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's obviously not the first politician to try

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Speaker 1: and inject comedy or humor into his political strategy. You've

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Speaker 1: got people like Donald Trump, who sometimes makes you laugh

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Speaker 1: by accident, like you're laughing at him, but sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: saying stuff that's supposed to make you laugh.

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Speaker 11: Is visceral response to attack people on their appearance.

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Speaker 4: I never attacked him on his look. And believe me,

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Speaker 4: there's plenty of subject matter right there.

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Speaker 12: That I can tell.

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Speaker 1: You know, We've got characters like Eric Adams, who like

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Speaker 1: is saying some absolutely insane.

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Speaker 7: Shiit n life may I I got to test the product.

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Speaker 1: But he I think he knows that he's hilarious. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. Do you guys feel like humor is a

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Speaker 1: successful strategy for politicians to appear more relatable? Like, have

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Speaker 1: we just been seeing very specific cases? Do we feel

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Speaker 1: largely that they should stick to policy?

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Speaker 11: Well, it's interesting because the conversation today is so focused

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Speaker 11: on like their social media accounts, which it's like, Gavin's

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Speaker 11: not in the lab photoshop making this up. You know what?

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Speaker 11: I mean, so it's like that that to me adds

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Speaker 11: a layer where I'm like, all right, this isn't you.

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Speaker 11: This is like a bunch of whatever thirty year olds

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Speaker 11: who work for you making that makes it like this

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Speaker 11: distance where it's like, well, I don't even think you're funny,

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Speaker 11: you know. I think a lot of politicians, you know,

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Speaker 11: It's like Obama was funny famously.

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Speaker 1: The White House correspondent, like he was very like.

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Speaker 11: Good comic timing and like that is relatable, or like,

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Speaker 11: you know, Bernie Sanders is funny when he's and like,

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Speaker 11: you know, dismissing something or whatever. Like So, I mean,

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Speaker 11: I think it's a good and normal human thing to

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Speaker 11: use humor. I don't think it should be like the

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Speaker 11: bulk of your political strategy. It's like the who would

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Speaker 11: you want to get.

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Speaker 10: A beer with?

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Speaker 11: Thing? Like I remember when our boy George W. Bush

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Speaker 11: was elected. That was like the big thing. It's like

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Speaker 11: he seems like a chummy guy. Yeah, It's like and

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Speaker 11: like that counts for something. It's like, Okay, can this

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Speaker 11: be someone I could relate to in a normal human way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: I think people are over estimating the power of humor

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Speaker 7: because I think what people associate humor with is like

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Speaker 7: authenticity or like not being guarded or buttoned up. But

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Speaker 7: if you're not naturally funny or you're forcing humor, it

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Speaker 7: also doesn't work.

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Speaker 10: Right.

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Speaker 7: We've seen plenty of examples of like really stuffy politicians

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Speaker 7: trying to be funny and it's like, yeah, okay, this

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Speaker 7: is even worse.

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Speaker 1: Jd Vance with the yeah.

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Speaker 7: Jd Vance is like someone who famously is not funny,

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Speaker 7: right like, and he tries and it doesn't connect.

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Speaker 13: Right.

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Speaker 7: So, I think like a politician could be not trying

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Speaker 7: to be funny, but just a little bit less guarded,

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Speaker 7: a little bit more relaxed, a little less worried about

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Speaker 7: saying the wrong thing at all times or not saying

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Speaker 7: anything at all because you're so afraid of what you like,

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Speaker 7: who you may upset. I think that more so is

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Speaker 7: more important than like a politician being funny.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you guys are right about this. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: with no was saying about would you get a beer

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Speaker 1: with this person, it's like this ability for the politician

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Speaker 1: to be able to hang essentially. I've been watching unfortunately

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Speaker 1: the Flagrant podcast and you just you see politicians go

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Speaker 1: on there and you start to wonder the value of

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Speaker 1: like them being in that kind of environment. Obviously, Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump went on there last year and they were just

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Speaker 1: kind of kissing his ass, so it doesn't count. But

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Speaker 1: Pete Boodajudge went on, and I was kind of surprised

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Speaker 1: by how easily he kind of melted into that, into

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Speaker 1: that environment.

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Speaker 11: You can't privatize the public park, right, this is the

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Speaker 11: all I do, public goods, why we have governments, why

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Speaker 11: we collect taxes.

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Speaker 5: Were turning to such libs already.

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Speaker 1: Dude, and it literally made me as like a voter

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Speaker 1: be like oh interesting, Like I didn't know that he

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Speaker 1: had this side to him. At the same time, I

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Speaker 1: could never imagine Kamala Harris being on that show, because

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Speaker 1: some Democrats are so risk averse, not able to be

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Speaker 1: an environment where like the questions weren't approved ahead of

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Speaker 1: time and that kind of stuff I think gets to people.

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Speaker 7: And it's frustrating with her specifically, because I do think

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Speaker 7: she has it in her, like I you know, we've

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Speaker 7: obviously seen clips and instances of like like her talking

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Speaker 7: about cooking and shit. It's just like you can be normal.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, No, she seems a lot more normal if she

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Speaker 11: would let herself be that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's so funny.

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Speaker 5: Where was this?

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Speaker 11: They're going back and forth about her not being on

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Speaker 11: Joe Rogan or whatever, and it's like, I actually think

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Speaker 11: if she was able to relax and go on something

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Speaker 11: like that, she could be good. Yeah, but like she's

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Speaker 11: so trained up that she won't. But yeah, when she

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Speaker 11: talked about cooking or whatever, like after a speech or whatever,

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Speaker 11: talking to just people.

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Speaker 5: I should be calling you, Harris, you should not.

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Speaker 14: That's not on my birth certificate.

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Speaker 8: Okay, just don't call me, Auntie.

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Speaker 12: I won't call you.

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Speaker 11: You could see you know one how she got to

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Speaker 11: where she is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a moment the Mama Lass stuff where

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Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, this does feel kind of relatable.

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Speaker 1: But then you hear stories like the Subway Takes Guy,

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Speaker 1: where it's this viral show where you go on and

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Speaker 1: give a hot take. Apparently Kamala went on during the

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Speaker 1: campaign and had a take that was so focused, group tested,

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Speaker 1: and awkward that everyone just mutually decided to scrap the episode.

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Speaker 5: Her take was that bad. It was really really bad.

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Speaker 5: Then it was it was like, didn't make any sense.

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Speaker 5: I can tell you this. I was bacon as a spice, you.

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Speaker 10: Think that was her opinion.

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Speaker 6: You thinks you had like a research group trying to

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Speaker 6: figure something.

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Speaker 5: That research group. And then I was like, if I

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Speaker 5: post this, a lot of people are going to be

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Speaker 5: out at me.

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Speaker 11: Now.

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Speaker 1: Counter example, Zorn Mundani, newly elected mayor of New York City.

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Speaker 1: You know, not like the funniest guy ever, but one

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Speaker 1: can easily see the effect a politician can have when

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Speaker 1: they're able to be themselves, regardless of the situation or environment.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of the effect that politicians can have, we're

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Speaker 1: going to be hearing from a humor historian who's going

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Speaker 1: to walk us through the history of humor in politics,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to hear from actual comedian Mike Birbiglia.

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Speaker 1: That's after the break. We're back. I'm Anny, I'm Noah Devin,

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Speaker 1: and we're about to hear from doctor Mark Rolf. He

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Speaker 1: is an expert in the history of humor in politics.

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Speaker 1: He's a professor at the University of New South Wales

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Speaker 1: in Sydney. And here I'll just have him introduce himself.

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Speaker 12: Well, basically, I've always been interested in politics, humor and

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Speaker 12: history since childhood. I've basically built a career out of

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Speaker 12: those three things combined. I treat satire as really a

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Speaker 12: species of rhetoric, an offshoot of rhetric. So humor and

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Speaker 12: satire generally as means of persuasion.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So before we get into the weeds, I do

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Speaker 1: love to talk about these kind of topics more existentially.

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Speaker 1: So I asked him what even is humor? Why do

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Speaker 1: we laugh?

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Speaker 12: The term humor is an ancient one, but up until

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Speaker 12: about three four hundred years ago, it was part of medicine.

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Speaker 12: Humor or humors referred to the four liquids of ancient

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Speaker 12: and medieval medicine black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood,

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Speaker 12: and the balance of these four liquids dictated your temperaments.

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Speaker 12: That's why we can still say sometimes, oh, he's in

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Speaker 12: a bit of bad humor. Split humor from laughter, they're

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Speaker 12: not the same. But the way we've talked about the

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Speaker 12: two together during the three hundred years, but particularly the

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Speaker 12: last two hundred years, we've said humor and laughter are equivalent.

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Speaker 12: If there's laughter, there's been a joke, Okay, But when

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Speaker 12: you think about it, there's laughter for a range of

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Speaker 12: reasons without jokes. Okay, you tickle a baby, the baby laughs,

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Speaker 12: there's no joke. Obviously, there can be release of joy,

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Speaker 12: physical effects that are good without any joke. The Vikings

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Speaker 12: they laughed with scorn without jokes. They laughed with scorn

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Speaker 12: at enemies, and they would laugh at violence. Aristotle the

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Speaker 12: philosopher talks about how Greeks would laugh at unkliness. What

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Speaker 12: I'm pointing to is a range of different things that

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Speaker 12: we laugh at as human and as one philosopher called

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Speaker 12: Henry booksOn said, laughter is in need of an echo.

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Speaker 12: It's part of our sociality. We can laugh in our

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Speaker 12: own but when we laugh with others, we are establishing

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Speaker 12: bones with them as well.

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Speaker 1: So this segment really made me think about people like

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Speaker 1: Eric Adams, Yes, and even Curtis Leewa, who is the

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Speaker 1: Republican nominee for mayor of New York City, Like, are

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Speaker 1: we laughing with them or at them? If we're gonna

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Speaker 1: split humor and laughter a part as concepts.

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Speaker 7: Even with President Trump, Yeah, there are times where he

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Speaker 7: makes a joke that will make me laugh, and there's

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Speaker 7: times where he's not making a joke and I'm cracking out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I was serious. I wondered about kind of

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Speaker 1: the ratio with someone like Donald Trump, for example, Like,

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Speaker 1: if we're gonna say he's funny, maybe we want to

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Speaker 1: quantify what percentage of the things he's saying is supposed

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Speaker 1: to make you laugh versus what is just you know,

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Speaker 1: we're just like this guy's insane.

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Speaker 11: I think more than lots of left leaning people would

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Speaker 11: admit he's purposeful. Yeah, Like, I think a lot of

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Speaker 11: times he's trying to be funny and often succeeding, and

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Speaker 11: people are laughing at him, maybe thinking they're laughing at him,

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Speaker 11: but they're laughing with him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like not we're not not clocking that he is

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Speaker 1: trying to be.

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Speaker 11: Fun or like not giving credit where it's due basically

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Speaker 11: and more generally thinking about what he just said there

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Speaker 11: where it's like, I'm much more likely to laugh out

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Speaker 11: loud if I'm in a movie theater or watching something

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Speaker 11: with another person than if I'm sitting by myself watching

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Speaker 11: a movie, Like it's really hard to get a real

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Speaker 11: laugh out of me by myself. And obviously that's not

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Speaker 11: like a conscious thing, but it is something like I'm

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Speaker 11: signaling that.

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Speaker 2: I got the joke, I guess.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, it's interesting to think about that community aspect of laughter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes me think of like memes, even where

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Speaker 1: like the point of it is a kind of a

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Speaker 1: communal reaction to the content. So one thing I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask doctor Rolf to do was give me a

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Speaker 1: brief overview of the history of humor in politics, because

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Speaker 1: something I learned when I was reading about his work

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Speaker 1: is that this is kind of a relatively new concept.

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Speaker 12: Much of what we know about humor started around three

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Speaker 12: hundred years ago in Britain, and we carry on many

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Speaker 12: of the ideas, especially this idea of political satire from

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Speaker 12: the British, and that went to colonial America and all

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Speaker 12: the British literature of that time. So you've got the

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Speaker 12: concept of humor, and then you get later on with

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Speaker 12: the British the idea of a national humor, and then

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Speaker 12: America imparts its twist on the idea in the eighteen seventies,

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Speaker 12: with the set of humor being a good individual thing

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Speaker 12: that a person can be admired for having a good

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Speaker 12: sense of humor and a little bit suspect for not

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Speaker 12: having a good sense of humor. So in that way,

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Speaker 12: when you look at the history of a lot of

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Speaker 12: our ideas, you find that they're not as universal as

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Speaker 12: we might think that they have really short periods in

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Speaker 12: the scheme of things. I've looked at how some of

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Speaker 12: these things went to America, and how American ideas of humor,

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Speaker 12: vaudeville and the invention of the joke that we know

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Speaker 12: today was also an invention of America in the eighteen

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Speaker 12: seventies and eighties, when you've got a huge creation of

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Speaker 12: a mass entertainment circuit going on and the creation of

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Speaker 12: joke writers. The anonymous two or three line joke that

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Speaker 12: we know today an American invention. Seta gets used these days,

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Speaker 12: particularly in America, as a means of political identity. So

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Speaker 12: a lot of Americans consume their news in a line

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Speaker 12: with their views, and they consume satire or humor in

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Speaker 12: line with their views.

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Speaker 11: As your slogan says Fox News, we read the chain

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Speaker 11: mails your grandma gets in her inbox out loud like

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Speaker 11: they were true.

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Speaker 12: And obviously it lines up with this issue of polarization

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Speaker 12: of America.

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Speaker 1: So I thought it was interesting that humor historically is

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Speaker 1: something that we use to grade like a human being,

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Speaker 1: Like you might think someone is a great person, but

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Speaker 1: if they're not funny, it's kind of suspect.

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Speaker 7: Well, even if they're not funny, then you have to

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Speaker 7: know what is funny, you know, like every dating prompt

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Speaker 7: effort is like you must have a good sense of humor,

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Speaker 7: or every love island, they're like what your type. It's like,

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Speaker 7: you know, really great banter, like great sense of humor.

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Speaker 7: So like being it if you're not the one telling jokes,

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Speaker 7: being able to laugh at jokes is very important. I

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Speaker 7: feel like it's just like a roundabout way of being like,

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Speaker 7: not like someone who has like a stick up their ass.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I also thought it was interesting that the kind

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Speaker 1: of concept of a joke is pretty new and also American.

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Speaker 7: In the seventies, I wasna say, I was going through

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Speaker 7: some stuff in my head. It's not gonna say this

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Speaker 7: guy's wrong.

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Speaker 11: How old is this guy?

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Speaker 1: And I do think he means like in a formal

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Speaker 1: like he was saying like specific was telling jokes, the

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Speaker 1: kind of anonymous as he calls it, an anonymous two

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Speaker 1: or three line joke.

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Speaker 7: The new version, the modern version of what we consider

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Speaker 7: a joke, not like the slapstick stuff of the past.

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Speaker 1: Right, So we today have our kind of modern day

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Speaker 1: examples of politicians using humor in politics. But I asked

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Speaker 1: doctor Rolf if there were any famous examples in the

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Speaker 1: past that those of us who are so young might

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Speaker 1: not be acquainted with.

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Speaker 12: You can go back to John F. Kennedy. Given what

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Speaker 12: I've said about the history before, we think more highly

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Speaker 12: a person who displays a good sense of humor, and

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Speaker 12: that's when we commend them for having wit. So we

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Speaker 12: think that they're a bit superior, bit more intellectual, a

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Speaker 12: bit more classes. That's how John Kennedy used humor.

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Speaker 4: What have you done for the women according to the

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Speaker 4: promises of the platform.

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Speaker 11: I'm sure we haven't done enough.

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Speaker 12: And so people often look back to his press conferences

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Speaker 12: in which he's charming the journalists nearby, but also the

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Speaker 12: TV viewers with his sense of humor. You've also got

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Speaker 12: ron Reagan. He employed a comedic writer called Doug Gamble,

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Speaker 12: and there was a famous line in the nineteen eighty

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Speaker 12: four election against Walter Mondo, and the issue of Ronald

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Speaker 12: Reagan's age come up. You might know the crip.

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Speaker 4: You already are the oldest president in history, and some

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Speaker 4: of your staff say you are tired after your most

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Speaker 4: recent encounter with mister Mondale. Is there any doubt in

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Speaker 4: your mind that you would be able to function in

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Speaker 4: such circumstances.

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Speaker 13: I will not make age an issue of this campaign.

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Speaker 13: I am not going to exploit for political purposes my

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Speaker 13: opponent's youth and inexperience.

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Speaker 12: That cuip was written by Doug Gamble. Doug Gamble has

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Speaker 12: also contributed some crips to Donald Trump. Some people didn't

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Speaker 12: take it quite as a joke, but he's lined about

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Speaker 12: oh jijimping being president for life is now.

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Speaker 5: They wanted to give that a shout some day.

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Speaker 12: Okay, that came from Doug Gamble. Those are some of

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Speaker 12: the ways in which politicians can use HUMA, as well

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Speaker 12: as using CUMA as an attack dog against opponents.

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Speaker 1: So I knew politicians could be funny naturally, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that they were like actually hiring comedians, not

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Speaker 1: really to make their speeches funny, but to just have

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Speaker 1: little bits here and there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah I need to do that.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, my guy over here, this.

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Speaker 1: Guy Doug Gamble, who wrote that famous line for Reagan,

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Speaker 1: who's also seems to be still around writing stuff for

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So sometimes, you know, we hear some silly

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Speaker 1: thing from a politician and we think, wow, this guy's

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Speaker 1: on one, but it actually could be written from some comedian.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you're written Pomo should have used Doug in his

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Speaker 7: last debate against Zorn because he did not have some

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Speaker 7: some good coming.

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Speaker 11: Biden should have hired that guy before. I didn't realize

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Speaker 11: Trump had used him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like talking about old Yeah, all right, So

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Speaker 1: we learned a lot about kind of the history of

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Speaker 1: the utilization of comedy in politics. Is that a word utilization,

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Speaker 1: about use? The use over complicating it. We learned a

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Speaker 1: lot about the use of comedy in politics in history.

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Speaker 1: But now I think it'd be a good idea to

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Speaker 1: talk to an actual comedian, you know, get their thoughts

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Speaker 1: about why some of this stuff lands, why some of

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. And famously, there's a popular podcast that does

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Speaker 1: just that where they work on jokes in real time.

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Speaker 1: It's called Mike Brobiglia's working it out. So after the break,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to head over to the studio where he

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Speaker 1: records that podcast and talk to Mike. All right, we

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Speaker 1: are back. This is Manny and this is my conversation

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Speaker 1: with comedian Mike or Biglia.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for doing this, Mike, Oh yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I've been doing a little bit of studying about the

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Speaker 1: usage of humor and comedy in politics for like the

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Speaker 1: last one hundred years or so. Wow, And I've been

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Speaker 1: surprised to learn that politicians used to quite frequently hire

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Speaker 1: comedians to either appear wittier or in some instances like

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Speaker 1: specifically write jokes for them. JFK hired a comedian to

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Speaker 1: kind of appear smarter on the on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 1: and then some politicians like Ron Reagan actually had comedians

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Speaker 1: write specific jokes for him. There's a famous instance where

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Speaker 1: Walter Mondale kind of cracks at Reagan for being too old,

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Speaker 1: and his response is that he's not going to use

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Speaker 1: Walter's inexperience against him, and that was actually written by

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Speaker 1: a comedian. So I guess my first question is, like,

441
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: have you heard of this happening today? Have you ever

442
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: been asked to kind of punch up a politician's speech.

443
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: I've been asked, I think I have before. I think

444
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 2: I've maybe submitted jokes maybe during debates or something.

445
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: So this is like debate training almost.

446
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 2: I don't think any of mine were used. I also

447
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: didn't take it very seriously. Yeah, Like I don't think

448
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 2: I was very focused on it or and I don't

449
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 2: think I was in the inner circle of it. I

450
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: find the assignment to be hard. Yeah, political comedy, I

451
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: just find it to be hard.

452
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: What about it is hard? Is harder than, for example,

453
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: being in a room like a stand up comedy show.

454
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: It's funny, like I heard John Stuart describe it recently

455
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: in an interview with The New Yorker where he said,

456
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: you look at Trump and it's like he's not funny,

457
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: but he has a funny cadence. And I think that

458
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: combined the cadence he's like an entertainer's cadence, combined with

459
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 2: a complete and total willingness to say anything, regardless of

460
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: any meaning whatsoever. Yeah, and I think he's able to

461
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: pull that off, and not many people are because people

462
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: have integrity. There's not that many people with that little integrity,

463
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: you know.

464
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 5: What I mean.

465
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a unique and some people call shame. No shame, right,

466
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: And it's like interestingly seeing Newsome mimic it on Twitter

467
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: has been fascinating to me because I think it has

468
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: defanged Trump a little bit because it shows the trick

469
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: and the trick is just bombast. The trick is just

470
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: all caps bomb bast pomp, and it's like, Oh, that's

471
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 2: not hard. That's an intern just wrote like, I don't

472
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: think Avin Newsom's writing these bombastic tweets. Yeah, this wouldn't be.

473
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: My guess.

474
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: A lot of people I know find Trump to be funny.

475
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: I debate my friends whether we're laughing at or with Trump. Sure,

476
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: is there some sense from the public maybe that it's like, wow,

477
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: I wish I could say the things that Trump says,

478
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: or that he's like kind of crossing boundaries that might

479
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: feel freeing to people.

480
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: I've heard different theories on it, and I don't know

481
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 2: which is true, but I've heard, like one theory is

482
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: that people have, for thirty forty years and maybe longer,

483
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: maybe one hundred years, have felt so lied to by

484
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: politicians that there's something in it where they go, well,

485
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: at least here's all the raw footage of the documentary,

486
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: and then we can cut our own from it.

487
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean.

488
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, here's the lies, here's the truths, here's the everything.

489
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 2: I'm unloading the clip up, you figure it out. Yeah,

490
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 2: And it's a little bit in the kind of do

491
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: your own research realm where people are like, oh, okay,

492
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: I can make sense of this nonsense, I think. I mean,

493
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: I think that's part of the appeal from someone who

494
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 2: for whom it does not appeal.

495
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: Right, And you touched on this a little bit already,

496
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: But why is the kind of Gavin Newsome strategy? Why

497
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: do you think is resonating with some people?

498
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 2: I see a lot of I think, yeah, I think

499
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: it resonates because it reveals what Trump does as a trick.

500
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: So demystifies. It's like seeing how a magician does, like

501
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: a card trick or something.

502
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 11: Yeah.

503
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 2: Plus he's a governor and so there's like it's high stakes.

504
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: It's higher stakes in if Mike Berbiglia the comedian did

505
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: the bunch of all caps tweets, which I'm sure comedians

506
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: have done, you know, I'm sure that that's out there

507
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: as a trope, but like him doing it from this

508
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: stately position, like does feel consequential?

509
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess from a kind of a zoomed out perspective,

510
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: what do you think it is about? Like someone having

511
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: a good sense of humor that signals a level of authenticity,

512
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: like when some politicians, as we're going to get into

513
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: in a second attempt humor and ya want to fall

514
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: short the public consensus is kind of that they are fake,

515
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: are there manufacturer? Or this is like a focus group tested,

516
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: there's some inauthenticity. So what is it about a good

517
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: sense of humor that makes people feel like, wow, this

518
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: is like a real human being.

519
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: I think that great jokes are based in an observation

520
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: that is either true or feels true. And so when

521
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 2: a politician is observing something that people have feel like

522
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: they've observed, there's a sense of like, well, we're watching

523
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: the same reality here.

524
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 5: Yeah.

525
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: I think that there is something where there have been

526
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: some politicians without naming names in the last thirty years

527
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: where they were not able to read the room and

528
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 2: as a result, people really like lost faith in them,

529
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: Like you know, a famous example, actually this does name

530
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: names is the George W. Bush Mission accomplished right where

531
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: it's kind of a tone deaf. Yeah, everyone's just going, what,

532
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: there's all these people dead?

533
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 5: What are you talking about?

534
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: And I think that that and the opposite of that

535
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: is when someone is funny or nails a truth in

536
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 2: a moment or what feels like a truth in a moment,

537
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: I you know, I mean even like the speech that

538
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: all these people criticized, which is like Trump's I want

539
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: to say it's a inauguration like seventeen or something. Was

540
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: the carnage speech.

541
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, this American carnage stops right here and stops right now.

542
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 2: A lot of people were like, Oh, it's so dark

543
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 2: and so this and so that. Well yeah, but also

544
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: like some people's lives are really dark.

545
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: It's like painting a picture to them that felt familiar.

546
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I actually think I criticize ninety nine percent

547
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: of what Trump does. That speech. I actually found like, Eh,

548
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: it's not for me, but it's hitting with some people.

549
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you understood why it was resonating. So on

550
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: your show, you do a lot of kind of like

551
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: working on all yeah, which is a lot of fun

552
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: to listen to and to better kind of understand the

553
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: dynamic here that that we've been talking about. I love

554
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: to do a quick experiment with you. I've brought a

555
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: couple of jokes from politicians in the past couple of years,

556
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: and I'd love to get your sense of like why

557
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: they didn't work and what you might do to help

558
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: them if you were hired to write them. All Right,

559
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: So the first one is from J. D. E.

560
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 10: Vance.

561
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: This is when he was on the campaign trail.

562
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 15: Democrats say that it is racist to believe. Well, they

563
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 15: say it's racist to do anything. I had a die

564
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 15: Mountain Dew yesterday and one today. I'm sure they're gonna

565
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 15: call that racist too, But it's good. I love you guys.

566
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: I love you guys. That's a tough one. Yeah, I

567
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: mean it's it's clearly it's a great example of someone

568
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 2: who is surrounded by people who agree with him all

569
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 2: the time.

570
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 5: Right.

571
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: It's like, I actually think that one of the keys

572
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: to being a decent comedian is playing for crowds who

573
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: aren't dying to hear what you say next. Because I

574
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: do a mixture of shows like when I'm on tour,

575
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: it's meaningful for my process. But I know that those

576
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: people have watched my other six specials and they get

577
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: the tone of what I'm doing, and they right, And

578
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: so I like, it's an inside joke. I know that

579
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: they know that I know that I'm joking about this,

580
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 2: this and this, and that these four things we can

581
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: accept to be true.

582
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 5: Yeah.

583
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: And then I also played the comedy Celler in New

584
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: York and others like it. Where I'm not on the bill,

585
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: I pop up. I would saying most people don't know

586
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 2: who I am, or at least half don't know who

587
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: I am, And so you get what I think of

588
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: as like a true bounce like in tennis, true bounce

589
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 2: of the ball or basketball, like yeah, where you go? Okay,

590
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: kind of an unbiased, blank slate. Yeah, this is Yeah,

591
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: this is how this reads to people. And so that

592
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: the g Van's clip is a great example of like

593
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: it's very telling. Yeah, he's clearly surrounded by people for

594
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 2: whom they believe everything is construed as racist all the time. Yeah,

595
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 2: even a diet mountain dew, which is a really tricky analogy.

596
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: I don't even know what the joke is. Yeah, can

597
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 2: you explain.

598
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I was looking. I was seeking

599
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: information on. I think he's clearly, after telling the joke,

600
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: waiting for action. Yeah, the diet mountain de I don't know.

601
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm from Ohio as well. I drank mountain dew growing up.

602
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I didn't see what was going

603
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: on here in the.

604
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: Mag I'm unaware of any racial implications of mountain dew

605
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 2: nor diet mountain. Yeah, so I would say, like zoom out.

606
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: If he's playing to his bass and he wants to

607
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: make a joke about how everyone calls everything racist all

608
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 2: the time. I would pick something that has a racial implication. Yeah, Yeah,

609
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: choose a product that has a racial implication. People can

610
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: call me racist for blank filling the blank product that whatever.

611
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: So that's for playing for his bass, for playing like wider.

612
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's almost like you'd have to nail

613
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 2: the perfect thing culturally that people are annoyed at, yeah,

614
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: because they've heard it called racist, and we all know

615
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: that's a bit.

616
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: Much, right. What confused me is that this is an

617
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: audience ostensibly rooting for him, like wanting to be entertained

618
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: by truly bombing. Yeah, to be fair to JdE e Vance,

619
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: which is a sentiment I've never had in my life

620
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: and probably never will again. How much of this could

621
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: be that some jokes fall flat on some cross I'm

622
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: sure you've had experiences before where you've told the same

623
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: joke to two different rooms and gotten two completely different reactions.

624
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: As you're touching on earlier.

625
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: Certainly, but but that joke is just not gonna work.

626
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: I think that, honestly. It's it's that he's surrounded by

627
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: sick offens who are just laughing on every word he's saying, yeah,

628
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: versus listening to the content of what he's saying. What

629
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 2: a deeply unfunny person too, I mean he is really,

630
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: he doesn't have it.

631
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: I've got one more for you, okay, and this and

632
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: should be fair. You know that was someone on the right.

633
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: We're gonna pick someone on the left.

634
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:39,959
Speaker 5: Now.

635
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: We've got a joke here from Amy Klobatar and uh,

636
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a compilation.

637
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 14: The President actually sent out a tweet he made fun

638
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 14: of me for talking about climate change in the middle

639
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 14: of a blizzard, and he called me snow woman. So

640
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 14: I wrote back, Hey, Donald Trump, the science is on

641
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 14: my side, and I'd like to see how your hair

642
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 14: would fair in a blizzard. So I wrote back, Hey,

643
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 14: Donald Trump, the science is on my side, and I'd

644
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 14: like to see how your hair would.

645
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: Fair in a blizzard.

646
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 8: So I wrote back, Donald Trump, the science is on

647
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 8: my side, and I'd like to see how your hair

648
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 8: would fair in a blizzard.

649
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: And you get the picture this. She's done this maybe

650
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: one hundred times, the same joke, over and over, and

651
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: just for the listener. During that clip, Mike had his

652
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: head in his.

653
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 2: I don't even like, get the jokes? Can you explain

654
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: the joke to me?

655
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: He at one point was criticizing the Democrats for like

656
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: drumming up climate change as like a real thing. Of

657
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: course it is. And I guess this is her response,

658
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: if you don't think climate change is real, well, I

659
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: would like to see what your hair would be doing

660
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: in the blizzards that are happening more often. I guess

661
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: I'm very confused as well.

662
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a tricky one. I like Senator Klobsher a lot,

663
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: but that one is clearly.

664
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: Maybe this is can't come from someone on her team

665
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: or right.

666
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 2: I performed a couple fundraisers in the last election, and

667
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: I say, people make fun of us in the city.

668
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: They call us coastal elites, just because we live on

669
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: a coast and we're better than other people. And in fairness,

670
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: part of the time we live in Aspen. And it's like,

671
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: I think, with jokes, you you need a target. I

672
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 2: did a special for Netflix years ago called Thank Cover Jokes,

673
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: and essentially one of the key points in it is

674
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 2: like all jokes are aimed at someone or something, like

675
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 2: all all jokes are offensive to some.

676
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: Target, like as a target.

677
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, every joke if you think about it, unless it's

678
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: just nonsense, which is its own genre, like unless it's abstract.

679
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: But it's interesting hearing her take aim at Trump in

680
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: that way because it's like it just doesn't land. And

681
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 2: it doesn't land because so many jokes have been made

682
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 2: about his hair, about his skin, about his whatever like that.

683
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: You know, orange skins his hairs are two pays.

684
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 11: You know.

685
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: And to your point, it is kind of unclear initially

686
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: what the target of the joke is. Yes, I guess

687
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: everyone's hair would kind of be going.

688
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: On, right, and it's it's but it's it's a real quandary.

689
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: I would say, four people who are on the other

690
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 2: side of him to make jokes at his expense, because

691
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: it's like it's all done, it's all been done. I mean,

692
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: it's part of the reason I don't go into political

693
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: comedy realm right now. I did a little bit when

694
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 2: George W. Bush was president. The only reason I did

695
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: was that someone was opening up for me in Pittsburgh

696
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 2: and they were doing all this pro George W. Bush

697
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: material interesting And I've never been in the habit of

698
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: censoring anyone. Yeah, so I didn't say, hey, could you

699
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: not do them, so instead, I wrote a joke about

700
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 2: Georgia B. Bush and that ended up on my album

701
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: To Drink Mike, and the premise is it's like Georgie W.

702
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: Bush is like the guy who shows up at the

703
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 2: barbecue and starts the whiffle ball game. He's a wiffleball tony.

704
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, y'all want to play wiffle ball? And

705
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: then they played through the analogy with WMD's and all that,

706
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 2: and I have not. It was interesting about that joke

707
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 2: is that played in the South in the middle of

708
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 2: the country, partly because it was so silly, like, yeah,

709
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: it's kind of absurd, it's absurd, similar to mulaney horse

710
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: in the hospital bit.

711
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 6: This guy being the president, it's like there's a horse

712
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 6: loose in a hospital. It's like, there's a horse loose

713
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 6: in a hospital. I think eventually everything's gonna be okay,

714
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 6: but I have no idea what's gonna happen next, and

715
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 6: neither do any of you, and neither do you parents.

716
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 6: Because there's a horse loose in the hospital.

717
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 2: And there is something that he's capturing that even a

718
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: Trump supporter I think would not disagree with, which is

719
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: it's just chaotic. Yeah, and there's a point to it. Yeah,

720
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 2: it's fun. You can't dispute. There's chaos with this president.

721
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we just did two jokes that you punched up.

722
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: I wondered if you have time to listen to one

723
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 1: from Trump, I would like to know why it works. Actually,

724
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: that's a lot of people find this clip to be

725
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: really funny, and I do too, if I'm being honest. Wow, yeah,

726
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: I contain multitudes. So this this joke I see gets

727
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: circulated often on X for example, where people be like, okay,

728
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: you got to hand it to him. In some instances,

729
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: would we be better off?

730
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 4: As an example, in a wreck, what are we doing?

731
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 4: It's like I saw somebody I won't even say because

732
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 4: it's embarrassing. We want it where the women over there

733
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 4: don't have to wear the you know what? Then I

734
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: saw women interviewed. They said, we want to wear them.

735
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 4: We've worn them for a thousand years. Why would anybody

736
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 4: tell us not to?

737
00:40:59,200 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: They want to?

738
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 4: What the hell are we getting involved for? In fact,

739
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 4: it's easier. You don't have to put up makeup. Look

740
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 4: how beautiful everyone looks. Wouldn't it be easy if wa right?

741
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 4: I'll tell you if I was a woman, I don't

742
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 4: want to Wah, I'm ready, darling, let's go true.

743
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: What is it about this one that's like some people

744
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: are like, Okay, I can see the humor in this.

745
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it appeals to the audience's sense of

746
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,959
Speaker 2: wanting him to be right. So, if I were gonna

747
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: guess as to the people in the audience and the

748
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: people posting it are isolationists, they don't think we should

749
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: be in foreign wars, et cetera. And then here's this

750
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: guy making this kind of outrageous nonsense digression that in

751
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 2: some way lands it in the sense of everybody wins

752
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 2: in the joke. Yeah, it's like the isolationists win because

753
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: they're like, we also don't want to be in foreign wars.

754
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: The people in the Middle East win because that's what

755
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: they there, that's what they want. Also they want us

756
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: not to be there, they want etc. And then his

757
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: example is minute and it's specific, and it's surprising. Yeah,

758
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: first of all, you don't think he's gonna talk about

759
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: women's point of view ever, Yeah, I mean, it's just

760
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: someone who doesn't care about women clearly. So then he

761
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: does in a surprise turn and it's confirmation biased on

762
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: what the audience already wanted to hear.

763
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: Right, So that's really insightful. You're saying, essentially, this joke

764
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: confirms the view of the world that I would like

765
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: to see, Like you're like, the.

766
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 2: People posting that I'm sure are isolation is yeah, and

767
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 2: the people in the audience are too.

768
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: Really fascinating. Well, thank you so much for doing yeas

769
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: been illuminating.

770
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 5: Thanks.

771
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 2: I'm glad it's great talking about it because it's not

772
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 2: what I do.

773
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, that was my conversation with Mike. Mister

774
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: Mike Berbiglia. Gotta say, very nice guy. The most interesting

775
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: thing I got from this interview is something that the

776
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: historian told us, which is that a lot of the

777
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: things we find funny are actually just kind of confirming

778
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: what we already believe in politics. Yeah, and so when

779
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: he was saying that a lot of people like that

780
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: Trump joke about the Burkas because we actually don't want

781
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: to be involved in all these wars. Yeah, I don't

782
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 1: know that really resonated. I didn't realize that was why.

783
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was like, it's kind of right, right where

784
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 7: it's like lead people alone, let them do their own thing. Right,

785
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 7: if Trump was saying the opposite of that and that clip,

786
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 7: we wouldn't find it as funny exactly.

787
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: And like both both at the time MAGA people and

788
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: people on the left were kind of the no more

789
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: foreign Wars stuff. Yes, that hasn't panned out for the

790
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: MAGA people, but still funny to me.

791
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 7: What's funny to me about that clip, and he mentioned

792
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 7: it earlier in your interview with him, is like, so

793
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 7: much of what's funny about Trump is his delivery, and

794
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 7: that delivery is like very Larry David esque, you know,

795
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 7: the way he like talked because like no, no, no, no,

796
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 7: like live alone, like honey, let's go. I was like

797
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 7: I could see this being like, you know, something similar

798
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 7: kind of did happen in curb But I was like,

799
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 7: Larry could do this same bit in Curve.

800
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more like than it is like set up punchline, yes,

801
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: I guess.

802
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, yeah. He has that sort of just sort

803
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 7: of like stream of consciousness sort of thing. And that

804
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 7: was when you know, we've reached another level of Trump

805
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 7: stream of consciousness where it never really comes back to

806
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 7: the beginning of the weave as But that was when

807
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 7: you could still kind of follow what was Yeah, yeah,

808
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 7: it was start to a.

809
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 11: Nice level where you know, we still got somewhere. Yeah,

810
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 11: there was a destination exactly.

811
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:36,919
Speaker 10: Yeah.

812
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 11: What's what's notable is that it does sound comfortable and

813
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 11: like it's actually natural and not yes, versus other ones

814
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 11: where it feels like a pre written thing and it's

815
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 11: just like, Okay, now, now's the time when I bring

816
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 11: out my joke and everyone's gonna love it, you know.

817
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

818
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 11: You know, to his credit, that's something Trump's able to

819
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 11: do is sound like he's just talking yeah, extemporary, it

820
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 11: feels genuine offense.

821
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 7: Might still thinking about the Mountain Dude thing, right.

822
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: Polar polar opposite of what we're just talking about now

823
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: is JD vance. He's like trying to force.

824
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 7: Now, what're spread about it is that like it sounds

825
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 7: like that's a joke he thought about ahead of time.

826
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, oh it was totally test like someone

827
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 1: wrote on his team.

828
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 7: It wasn't like he was just like you know you

829
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 7: It's like it's like he felt like that was the

830
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 7: second or third time he told that.

831
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

832
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said in that in that conversation, you know,

833
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: the most glaring part is that the crowd wants you

834
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: to be successful here. The fact that they didn't have

835
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: any kind of a react.

836
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 7: Well, you can see everyone started being like wait, yeah, we.

837
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: Had to think. They're like, wait, what does that mountain do?

838
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 7: They're like saying it in their head, mountain do diet mountain?

839
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 7: Does it sound like something racist?

840
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 11: Yeah?

841
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 2: I don't know.

842
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: No such thing as a production of Kaleidoscope Content. Our

843
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: executive producers are Kate Osborne and mangesh Hot Tokador. The

844
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: show was created by Many Fidel, Noah Friedman and Devin Joe.

845
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: The theme and credit song is by me Manny and

846
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,799
Speaker 1: the mixing is done by Steve Bone. Special things to

847
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: our guests doctor Mark Rolf from the University of New

848
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: South Wales and Mike Birbiglia. Definitely check out his show

849
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: Mike Birbigley as working an out everywhere you listen to podcasts.

850
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our substack at No Such

851
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: Thing dot Show and leave us five stars if you

852
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: like what you've heard, See you next time.

853
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 7: He's He's He's A Hell's A.

854
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 8: No such Things