WEBVTT - Bonus episode: Roger Stories -- an encore! 

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<v Speaker 1>Campsite Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello everyone, and welcome to our bonus episode for Go Boy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Sam Mullins and I'm here with my co creator

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<v Speaker 2>of the Go Boy podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Rob Hello.

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<v Speaker 1>Rob Lindsay.

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<v Speaker 2>And one thing that's hard when you make a podcast

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<v Speaker 2>series like this, especially Go Boy, where you could have

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<v Speaker 2>a twenty episode series just telling Roger stories from different

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<v Speaker 2>times in his life, and when you cut it all together,

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<v Speaker 2>there's always some of your favorite stories that just didn't

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<v Speaker 2>quite fit into the series that you were making. So

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<v Speaker 2>we thought it would be fun if we sort of

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<v Speaker 2>go through some of our favorite stories that either didn't

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<v Speaker 2>make it into Go Boy or that we're just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of fully touched on in the series. So we want

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<v Speaker 2>to go through and kind of highlight some of our

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<v Speaker 2>favorite full stories and some of our favorite little nuggets

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<v Speaker 2>that will help those who enjoyed this series understand and

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate the character of Roger Kron even a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's great too because we have these cards everywhere,

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<v Speaker 4>and not all the cards made it into the podcast,

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<v Speaker 4>so this is a nice opportunity to get those stories out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all the flash cards from the corkboard that didn't

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<v Speaker 2>quite make it into the episode outlines. Right, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>can go first. I'll start with the Bowl Gang. So

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<v Speaker 2>the Bull Gang is something that existed at the Guelph Reformatory,

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<v Speaker 2>which was the first real reformatory that Roger went to.

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<v Speaker 2>When he first got there, he kept getting into trouble

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<v Speaker 2>with other inmates. He was like violent and fighting and

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<v Speaker 2>he was getting into trouble with the guard all of

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<v Speaker 2>the time. And if you kept getting into the trouble,

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<v Speaker 2>they would sentence you for X amount of time to

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<v Speaker 2>go and join the Bull Gang. And the Bullgang was

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<v Speaker 2>this segregated unit. They had no privileges and just like

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<v Speaker 2>a hard bed, three meals a day, and their main

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<v Speaker 2>punishment was that they had to do this hardcore manual

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<v Speaker 2>labor in the pit, with the idea being we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to take all these problem inmates and we're just going

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<v Speaker 2>to exhaust them every day and use it as a

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<v Speaker 2>way to scare other inmates into behaving. The way that

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<v Speaker 2>the Bullgang would work was every day they would march

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<v Speaker 2>to the furthest reaches off the property and they would

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<v Speaker 2>all be pushing these wheelbarrows toward this huge two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>foot by two hundred.

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<v Speaker 1>Foot sixty foot deep pit.

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<v Speaker 2>That was just it was essentially just like a gravel

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<v Speaker 2>pit right where Corey. Yeah, totally a quarry where they

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<v Speaker 2>would break off boulders from the side and break it

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<v Speaker 2>into smaller boulders that would fit into their wheelbarrows, and

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<v Speaker 2>then they'd load them up and then they'd have to

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<v Speaker 2>like push these impossibly heavy wheelbarrows back up and around,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they would take it a couple hundred yards

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<v Speaker 2>or something and they would dump it down the steep embankment.

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<v Speaker 2>Because what the big project was was that they were

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<v Speaker 2>trying to fill this sort of lake or wetland area

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<v Speaker 2>with gravel so that they could develop it more or

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<v Speaker 2>something like they could put buildings in this wetland essentially,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're just breaking rocks, moving rocks, dumping rocks.

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<v Speaker 4>It is literally that thing where you you know, break

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<v Speaker 4>a big rock and make it a smaller rock, and

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<v Speaker 4>then take that smaller rock and make it even smaller.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And one detailed I love is that all of these

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<v Speaker 2>guys cared for their wheelbarrows like they were their children rogers.

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<v Speaker 2>That was like pushing a car up a hill, pushing

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<v Speaker 2>these things out. So after hours, these guys would be

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<v Speaker 2>like greasing the wheel and making the handles more comfortable,

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<v Speaker 2>and they would all name their wheelbarrows, and Rogers was

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<v Speaker 2>named Voodoo. And then if they ever were paroled, if

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<v Speaker 2>a guy was paroled and he had a sweet wheelbarrow,

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<v Speaker 2>they would all jockey for position to try and get

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<v Speaker 2>the nice wheelbarrow and take care of it with the

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<v Speaker 2>claws being that if the guy ended up having to

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<v Speaker 2>do another stint on the bulgang, that he.

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<v Speaker 1>Was allowed to his wheelbarrow back. I really love that.

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<v Speaker 4>It's like, you know, from Rodgers respective what he would

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<v Speaker 4>have done with his bike might have been in this

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<v Speaker 4>case as his wheelbarrow.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the way that he describes this pit, it

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<v Speaker 2>just seems like there was never a nice time of

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<v Speaker 2>year to be working outside in this pit, because the

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<v Speaker 2>summers in this region just are so hot and muggy

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<v Speaker 2>and humid, and they would just barely be able to

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<v Speaker 2>stand up from heat.

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<v Speaker 3>E saw.

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<v Speaker 2>And then in the winter, he said all of their

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<v Speaker 2>winter gear was a joke, that it was just modified

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<v Speaker 2>from discarded old prison clothes. They'd make gloves and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>for them, and they would all be down there, just

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<v Speaker 2>their teeth chattering, and then they'd look up and they

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<v Speaker 2>were always watched by armed guards because they were kind

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<v Speaker 2>of off campus and they were the worst inmates. So

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<v Speaker 2>there's like eight armed guards, and they'd look up at

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<v Speaker 2>the armed guards and they would all be laughing and

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<v Speaker 2>drinking their nice thermos of soup that their wife made

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<v Speaker 2>for them, and they would all just resent those guys

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<v Speaker 2>so hard as they're freezing.

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<v Speaker 1>Down in this hole.

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<v Speaker 2>And the other thing I remember when Roger talked about

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<v Speaker 2>is that it was like scary down there. When there

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<v Speaker 2>was a wind, it would make a howling sound over

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<v Speaker 2>the top of the pit, and it was so echoey

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<v Speaker 2>down there that it just sounded like it was haunted,

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<v Speaker 2>and it would he says, that would freak these really

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<v Speaker 2>tough guys out sometimes, the sounds that would be generated

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<v Speaker 2>down in this hell hole.

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<v Speaker 4>And then they would also try to get out of work.

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<v Speaker 4>Detail they would sort of give each other the nod

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<v Speaker 4>of take me out today, And so as I'm breaking

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<v Speaker 4>the rock, the sledgehammer breaks my foot instead, Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>which is very common thing to do. So they got

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<v Speaker 4>onto them of that, you know, like they looked out

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<v Speaker 4>for that. So you could actually get in a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of trouble for breaking the guy's foot.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only do you need to break your leg, but

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<v Speaker 2>you need to do a really good job of making

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<v Speaker 2>it look like an accident if you want to get

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<v Speaker 2>off the bull Gang for good. One other element I'm

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<v Speaker 2>obsessed with about the Bullgang is that there was a

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<v Speaker 2>special guard who sort of looked over them, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think his name was Sergeant Tracy, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone called him the Dick.

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<v Speaker 2>That was his nickname, because everyone has an adorable nickname

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<v Speaker 2>in prison, of course, And the thing about the Dick

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<v Speaker 2>is that the guy couldn't decide if they loved him

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<v Speaker 2>or hated him, because he would sort of look out

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<v Speaker 2>for them, and he would protect them from other guards

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<v Speaker 2>messing with them. He's like, those are my guys to

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<v Speaker 2>mess with, Like no one even look at my inmates

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<v Speaker 2>because the Bullgang belonged to me. Roger talks about how

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<v Speaker 2>during the spring months it was sort of go boys season,

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<v Speaker 2>where lots of these guys would try to make a

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<v Speaker 2>run for it in that time. The thing about the

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<v Speaker 2>Dick is that he was in such incredible shape that

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<v Speaker 2>no one could outrun him, and then if.

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<v Speaker 1>He caught you, he would just beat you up.

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<v Speaker 2>So guys wouldn't run if they knew that the Dick

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<v Speaker 2>was gonna be the one chasing them, because he would

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<v Speaker 2>just calmly jog after them like he's a marathon runner,

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<v Speaker 2>with the confidence that he would catch them and bring

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<v Speaker 2>them back by their shirt collar.

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<v Speaker 4>Which is even more impressive that Roger did escape from there.

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<v Speaker 4>He was a goal boy from the Bull Gang too,

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<v Speaker 4>so that's even more impressive that, yeah, he was able

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<v Speaker 4>to escape from the dick on top of all them.

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<v Speaker 2>It was quite the distraction that made it possible. Roger

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<v Speaker 2>talks about his time on the Bullgang that that was

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<v Speaker 2>really his coming of age moment. That's where he went

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<v Speaker 2>from a boy to a man, was doing that hard

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<v Speaker 2>labor with those guys, and it sounds even though it's

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<v Speaker 2>like obviously miserable work, it seems like a part of

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<v Speaker 2>him really enjoyed this camaraderie and suffering through this with

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<v Speaker 2>this tight group of guys that would work together and

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<v Speaker 2>commiserate together. I think that that was a big moment

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<v Speaker 2>in his coming of age tale.

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<v Speaker 4>And I think because they were the sort of the

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<v Speaker 4>group singled out as the hard knot guys that are

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<v Speaker 4>in here, and if Roger was among them, he was

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<v Speaker 4>sort of brought into the fold. And because he was

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<v Speaker 4>so much younger, probably having these older guys. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>he's one of us. You're you're you know, as the

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<v Speaker 4>sad and good fellows, You're one of us.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think in a lot of these settings, like

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<v Speaker 2>even later with the weight Gang at Kingston Pen that

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<v Speaker 2>Roger always earned other guys respect by just being a

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<v Speaker 2>hard working and stubborn and determined kid. Yeah, like people

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<v Speaker 2>like that, Guys like that admired that any young kid.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you totally.

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<v Speaker 4>It was funny because you would say that about the

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<v Speaker 4>about the bull gang, and it was making me think.

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<v Speaker 4>When he was in Gwelph, there was a bird stuck

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<v Speaker 4>in a window and so Roger was, you know, feeling

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<v Speaker 4>bad for the bird. So we whipped a piece of soap,

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<v Speaker 4>broke the window, freed the bird.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, Okay, I did my job.

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<v Speaker 4>But the guys didn't see it that way at all

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<v Speaker 4>and came in and beat the crab out of him

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<v Speaker 4>and took him down. We're gonna take him down to

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<v Speaker 4>the hole. But they gave him an option, like you

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<v Speaker 4>can either go to the hole and get the paddle,

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<v Speaker 4>or we've got this new psychiatric department and we're running

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<v Speaker 4>these sort of new tests. If you decide to do

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<v Speaker 4>these new tests with this new psychiatrists that we got,

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<v Speaker 4>you will forego all the punishment that you would normally get,

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<v Speaker 4>which would have been the whole the paddle and stuff

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<v Speaker 4>of that. And so Roger was at first very reluctant.

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<v Speaker 4>He's just like, I don't like the ideas. I'll take

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<v Speaker 4>my punishment. It's like, but this test is made for

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<v Speaker 4>someone like you, Roger, Like, if you have a temper

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<v Speaker 4>and if you, you know, are feeling volatile and stuff

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<v Speaker 4>like that, this is designed to curb those those tendencies.

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<v Speaker 4>So at the end of the day, Roger thought, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>well maybe sure I'll try it. And they had just

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<v Speaker 4>built like it was this beautiful new air beautiful, but

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it was this.

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<v Speaker 3>New area in there.

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<v Speaker 4>They had soft beds, they had one guard looking over

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<v Speaker 4>the whole area, and then the rest of the guards,

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<v Speaker 4>if you will, were nurses and they were all women,

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<v Speaker 4>and some of them were young, and they were all cute.

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<v Speaker 4>And so Roger was in this environment for about ten

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<v Speaker 4>days and the tests were ink blots and puzzles and

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<v Speaker 4>you know those do sketches of your family and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>So he's like, I get to do this instead of

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<v Speaker 2>getting with a perforated strap, like what exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>So he thought, this is amazing, I'm so glad I

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<v Speaker 4>agreed to do this, and so he did that for

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<v Speaker 4>ten days and then everything changed on the eleventh. So

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<v Speaker 4>on the eleventh day, they pulled them in and they

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<v Speaker 4>would pull them in small groups, and Roger was waiting

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<v Speaker 4>in the waiting room and they took a man that

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<v Speaker 4>was like in his forties into this room wherever this

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<v Speaker 4>experiment was going to take place, and all they could

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<v Speaker 4>hear from the other side of the door was was

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<v Speaker 4>it started as a whimper and sort of got into

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<v Speaker 4>crying and then got into whaling and screaming and stuff

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<v Speaker 4>of that. So you can just picture Roger and the

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<v Speaker 4>other people and the other side the door, like what

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<v Speaker 4>is happening in there? The door opens, they bring him out.

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<v Speaker 4>He's all limp, and they bring him out and like, okay, next,

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<v Speaker 4>yeah exactly, So they hate Roger had to watch that

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<v Speaker 4>for two or three other people before it was his term,

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<v Speaker 4>and so he describes it as what they did was

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<v Speaker 4>they he went in, they put him on a table,

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<v Speaker 4>they put him in a zipped him up like in

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<v Speaker 4>a straight jacket, and then they put a gas mask

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<v Speaker 4>over his mouth, and then all of a sudden they

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<v Speaker 4>just turn on some sort of gas. Whatever the gas

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<v Speaker 4>was that was supposed to curb these violent tendencies he had.

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<v Speaker 4>All it did was it filled his lungs and it

0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.160
<v Speaker 4>made him start choking. He couldn't breathe, he says. He

0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.959
<v Speaker 4>talks about having this incredible headache, immediate, like an immediate migraine.

0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.680
<v Speaker 4>And also these guys they would sort of turn into

0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.959
<v Speaker 4>the Hulk for a minute where they would be thrashing

0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 4>uncontrollably and make them really angry. Yeah, that's what he say, Like,

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 4>if for a treatment that's supposed to make me not angry,

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.720
<v Speaker 4>all his doing is making me angry. And like you're saying,

0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.079
<v Speaker 4>violently shaking on the table. That's probably why the straight

0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.120
<v Speaker 4>jack got on. And so when it was finally over,

0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.520
<v Speaker 4>it was like Roger was spent. He was screaming. They

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 4>actually put a towel in his mouth at one point

0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:54.320
<v Speaker 4>because he was screaming so much. So they finally got

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.160
<v Speaker 4>him off the table, and so they're dragging him off

0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.400
<v Speaker 4>or taking him off, and the doctors, oh, don't worry, Roger, next.

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 3>Time it will go better, you know, it.

0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.360
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's like and he's I'm sure he's like it

0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:05.480
<v Speaker 4>next time. And he had to do it twice a

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.200
<v Speaker 4>week or yeah, so so, uh, he had to do

0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:09.120
<v Speaker 4>it a couple of times a week.

0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:10.480
<v Speaker 1>I think he did seven total.

0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.040
<v Speaker 4>I think it was like seven treatments over a extended

0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.200
<v Speaker 4>period of time. They eventually, you know, was his turn

0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:18.760
<v Speaker 4>to come in and he's like, I just don't want

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.640
<v Speaker 4>to do this. I can't do this anymore. And he

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.640
<v Speaker 4>went back and at one point he just got really

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 4>angry and he sort of smashed a window again and

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:27.600
<v Speaker 4>then which is funny because that's what got him there

0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 4>in the first place. They they did gave him something

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.880
<v Speaker 4>to calm him down, and then the doctor, he says,

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 4>the doctor came and says, don't worry Roger, We're not

0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:36.439
<v Speaker 4>going to.

0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Do this test anymore. We're actually going to dissent.

0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.320
<v Speaker 4>So I don't really know what happened with the test

0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 4>or what the end result was, but my feeling is

0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:46.200
<v Speaker 4>unplugging it.

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.080
<v Speaker 2>You know, Well that didn't work or and we don't

0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:53.679
<v Speaker 2>even know what specifically. It was just this mysterious experiment.

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:58.160
<v Speaker 2>The idea was I think that they they give this

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 2>gas that gives these vibeviolent men of violent reaction, and

0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:07.320
<v Speaker 2>it could be a sort of artificially created way for

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.880
<v Speaker 2>them to purge themselves of the violence, like create a

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:15.160
<v Speaker 2>safe space for them to thrash and scream in anger,

0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.640
<v Speaker 2>and then they won't have anything left when they're back

0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>in the general population, right right, which I don't think

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 2>is what with the end result ended up being. And

0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.640
<v Speaker 2>so Roger, he just didn't trust that they are not

0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 2>going to make him do it anymore. So he of

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>course he tried to escape from the psychiatric area and

0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>then they caught him, and then unfortunately what ended up

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 2>happening to was was going to happen to him. Originally

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 2>they put him in the hole, they gave him the strap,

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 2>and then they actually sent him to the bulgang, which

0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.960
<v Speaker 2>is which is funny because it comes full circle back

0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 2>to the bulgang again. But the only good thing about

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing in Roger's eyes was he did get

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.520
<v Speaker 2>a kiss from one of the pretty nurses, So I

0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 2>don't know if that was worth it. One of my

0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 2>other favorite stories that we didn't find a home for

0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 2>in the series is he he is in the jail

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 2>in Fredericton and then he has that scene with Ninny

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.680
<v Speaker 2>where the woman in the cell beside him and him

0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 2>they find a hole and they start talking and they

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 2>start conspiring together, and then they're found out. Roger gets

0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.600
<v Speaker 2>into a scuffle with the guards and he jumps out

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.240
<v Speaker 2>a window and escapes.

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.440
<v Speaker 1>And if you stick with.

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.040
<v Speaker 2>That story and that escape, so Roger like jumps out

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.760
<v Speaker 2>a window and he really hurts his ankle as he

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.760
<v Speaker 2>runs away, and he goes down by a creek or

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>river and he's kind of following it along, and he

0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>knows that they're gonna put out man hunt and set

0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 2>up roadblocks and things like that, so he has to

0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.720
<v Speaker 2>keep a really low profile as he tries to get

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.680
<v Speaker 2>far enough outside of Fredericton that it's safe. So he

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.640
<v Speaker 2>finds this hotel he sneaks in, and he finds this

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 2>empty banquet room and has all of these big tables

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.480
<v Speaker 2>with white linen tablecloths, and he just crawls underneath one

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.720
<v Speaker 2>of them and he has a little nap for a

0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 2>couple of hours. And when he wakes up from this nap,

0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 2>his ankle has doubled in size and he can barely walk.

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:34.280
<v Speaker 1>So he's like, oh God, I got to get out

0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 1>of here.

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:39.640
<v Speaker 2>So he goes and he steals some bell Hops clothes

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.520
<v Speaker 2>from a locker downstairs. From a staff room, he finds

0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.400
<v Speaker 2>like a blue blazer and some shoes, and he goes out,

0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.840
<v Speaker 2>but it starts raining so incredibly hard that all of

0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, a car is suddenly beside him that he

0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 2>wasn't able to hear because of the rain, and it's

0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>this man with his two teenage daughters in a car.

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 2>The teenage girl is like, it's a young man, and

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.600
<v Speaker 2>the dad is like, you need to get in here

0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 2>before you drown. And Roger's like, no, no, thanks for

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.960
<v Speaker 2>the offer for the ride, but I'm good. And the

0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.280
<v Speaker 2>dad's like, son, my daughters will disown me if you

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 2>don't get into the car right now. And Roger's just

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 2>so desperate to keep a low profile. And before he

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 2>gets into the car, he looks at the radio antenna

0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.439
<v Speaker 2>on it. He's like, if they turn on the radio,

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 2>it's just gonna be like man hunt, Man on the loose.

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Do not pick up hitchhikers.

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.679
<v Speaker 2>So he climbs in and thankfully they don't have the

0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:45.720
<v Speaker 2>radio on, and they say, so where are you heading,

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.320
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, I'm going to Montreal, which is quite far,

0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>and the dad is like.

0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, that settles it. You're coming to spend the night

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 1>at our house.

0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.359
<v Speaker 2>So they take them back to their house and in

0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 2>the backyard there's a quite nice tent that I guess

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.680
<v Speaker 2>they're son had been living in and he was off

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.280
<v Speaker 2>at university. So they're like, you can take the son's tent.

0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.959
<v Speaker 2>They bring Roger into the house. He said they were

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.359
<v Speaker 2>such a Christian family when they walked in that the

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.160
<v Speaker 2>grandmother is literally just like reading the Bible by the fire,

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, can we get you something to eat.

0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.480
<v Speaker 2>He's like, no, no, no, no thanks. I'm just gonna take

0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.639
<v Speaker 2>you guys up on this tent. And he goes in

0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 2>this tent. His clothes are soaked. He takes off his

0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:32.399
<v Speaker 2>clothes and he gets into this fur lined little sleeping bag,

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.879
<v Speaker 2>and then all of a sudden, the dad from the family,

0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.320
<v Speaker 2>he bursts in and he's like, here's a couple of

0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.600
<v Speaker 2>egg sandwiches, and here's a cup of coffee, and I'm

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 2>just gonna take your clothes and I'm gonna take him

0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:45.399
<v Speaker 2>inside and they'll be dry for you in the morning.

0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.800
<v Speaker 2>And he's gone, and Roger is like shit, I'm naked

0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.640
<v Speaker 2>in this sleeping bag and that guy just took my clothes,

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 2>So he has to change his plans, and he spends

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.600
<v Speaker 2>the whole night there, hoping that it's not part of

0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 2>their evening or morning routine to listen to the radio.

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.440
<v Speaker 2>So the next morning he emerges and they give him

0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 2>his dry clothes and they feed him again, and he

0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 2>says that he was so starving. He was embarrassed at

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.120
<v Speaker 2>how grotesquely fast he ate his food in front of

0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 2>the mom and the gram and the teenage daughters. And

0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:29.199
<v Speaker 2>then they gave him a nice knit sweater that belonged

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.840
<v Speaker 2>to their son, and they drove him across a river.

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:33.439
<v Speaker 1>There was a.

0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.840
<v Speaker 2>One vehicle ferry that went across this river, and it

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.879
<v Speaker 2>was propelled by men pulling a rope like two men

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:48.880
<v Speaker 2>would pull the ferry across the river. So he ends

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.399
<v Speaker 2>up on the other side and he says goodbye to

0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:56.880
<v Speaker 2>the dad who had done this, and Roger is almost weeping.

0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.920
<v Speaker 2>He is so moved by how kind these people were

0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:05.960
<v Speaker 2>to him. And given where Roger had just come from,

0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 2>this was just on the tail of all everything that

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 2>he had suffered at the Guelf Reformatory and other escapes

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 2>and other bad situations and beatings, and this was like

0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:25.320
<v Speaker 2>his first taste of just pure undiluted kindness and warmth

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:27.960
<v Speaker 2>was from this family that had helped him when he

0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:30.680
<v Speaker 2>really did need help and sent him on his way.

0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.640
<v Speaker 2>He almost couldn't handle how kind they were. It made

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.440
<v Speaker 2>him deeply uncomfortable, and he hated that he had to

0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.240
<v Speaker 2>lie to them about who he was and where he

0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:41.960
<v Speaker 2>was going.

0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:42.560
<v Speaker 1>And what he was doing.

0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.040
<v Speaker 4>But eventually, I think what happened was the family did

0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.919
<v Speaker 4>turn on the radio and did hear, oh, yeah, this

0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.760
<v Speaker 4>guy escaped and sort of described him. I think he's

0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.199
<v Speaker 4>been sleeping in my tent all night. So it was

0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 4>actually the father that called the police to I think

0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:56.800
<v Speaker 4>I had.

0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:57.200
<v Speaker 3>That boy here.

0:20:57.359 --> 0:20:59.359
<v Speaker 1>I harbored a criminal.

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:04.000
<v Speaker 4>Basically h But Roger afterwards said he didn't hold any

0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 4>ill feelings towards him at all, like it just because

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 4>he was so kind of And it's one of those

0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.080
<v Speaker 4>moments that later on when he got he did get caught. Eventually,

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.120
<v Speaker 4>while he's back into cell thinking about it, he must

0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.720
<v Speaker 4>have really reflected on that that moment, you know, of

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.359
<v Speaker 4>just like this, this is what the other side looks like,

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.439
<v Speaker 4>you know, if I have if I had lived a

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.600
<v Speaker 4>different life, or if I did live another life, it

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:35.760
<v Speaker 4>could look like this, Yeah.

0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:32.439
<v Speaker 3>I have a good robbery story.

0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.520
<v Speaker 4>Roger got to a point where he started getting paranoid

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.239
<v Speaker 4>about banks. This is a little bit later on in

0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.280
<v Speaker 4>his career, and he got paranoid that because he had

0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.119
<v Speaker 4>he was known for escaping, he was known for robbing

0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 4>banks and stuff like that, that the people were watching him.

0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:49.600
<v Speaker 4>And so if he would pick up a new crew

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:52.080
<v Speaker 4>or a new partner to rob another bank, they would

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:54.520
<v Speaker 4>be like, they're not watching Roger or whatever. But but

0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:56.360
<v Speaker 4>in his mind, like he just I really think they

0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:58.560
<v Speaker 4>are watching me. So he started doing this habit of

0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:03.440
<v Speaker 4>that he would break into to a police garage where

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.919
<v Speaker 4>they parked their undercovered cars and write down all the

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.400
<v Speaker 4>license plates of these undercovered cars. And then one time

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.920
<v Speaker 4>they were going to go do a job and sure enough,

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 4>you know, he checks any license plate that has these numbers, Okay,

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:17.720
<v Speaker 4>we don't go in that bank, and sure enough he

0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 4>saw one that was hidden back and it was like

0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.240
<v Speaker 4>this license plate, I just saw it in the garage.

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.439
<v Speaker 4>So he called off the off the heist, and his

0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.879
<v Speaker 4>partner was not happy. He was like, like, you know,

0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:30.399
<v Speaker 4>thought it almost like he chickened out or whatever. They

0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 4>waited a week later or something, and so they picked

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.159
<v Speaker 4>another bank and they go in and they rob it

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.439
<v Speaker 4>and when they go in, they did it within like

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 4>forty forty seconds or something that where they got all

0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 4>the money they could. And then they're running out. They

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:46.160
<v Speaker 4>go into the car and then Rogers says, out of nowhere,

0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:51.240
<v Speaker 4>this car comes flying and smashes into the side of

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.760
<v Speaker 4>his car, and so he can see that it's it's

0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:58.840
<v Speaker 4>an undercover police officer but dressed as a hippie and

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.880
<v Speaker 4>runs into him, and so Roger's gun falls on the floor.

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:05.720
<v Speaker 4>Police officers gun falls on his floor in his car,

0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.840
<v Speaker 4>and so the two of them are trying to get

0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 4>their hands on their weapons while not taking their eyes

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:14.960
<v Speaker 4>off each other. So he said, it's like an oh,

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:16.800
<v Speaker 4>like pitcher, a Western of you know, you're trying to

0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.679
<v Speaker 4>find the gun. So Roger picks up his gun, and

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.920
<v Speaker 4>just as he does that, another car comes and smashes

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.119
<v Speaker 4>in the front of them, and they'll go flying, and

0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:27.719
<v Speaker 4>the gun goes flying again, and then that guy couldn't

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:29.480
<v Speaker 4>get out of his car because of the impact. He

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 4>couldn't open his side door. A third car came and

0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.399
<v Speaker 4>hit him from the back. So they were t boone

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 4>from every which direction and as he goes and there

0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 4>goes the gun again, go flying out of my hand.

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 4>So when they finally got him, so they surrounded them

0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:47.320
<v Speaker 4>and there's about six hundercover police officers. They take him

0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:50.200
<v Speaker 4>out of the car and they put him up against

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.320
<v Speaker 4>the window of the bank that they just came out of,

0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:54.400
<v Speaker 4>and everyone in the bank was like, oh my gosh,

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:55.520
<v Speaker 4>they're coming back in again.

0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's the same guys. They're coming back in.

0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:00.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh man.

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:16.240
<v Speaker 2>So during Roger's like most intense bank robbing time with

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 2>the Montreal crew, there's this one story that is burned

0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:22.640
<v Speaker 2>in my head forever that.

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 1>Didn't make it in.

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 2>So one of the guys on his crew, he had

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:30.480
<v Speaker 2>a girlfriend that all the guys knew and like named

0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Eula and Ula.

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:35.200
<v Speaker 1>She was like a stripper and she.

0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Had like an abusive ex boyfriend who kept bothering her.

0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:45.240
<v Speaker 2>So her new boyfriend and all the guys on Roger's

0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:48.680
<v Speaker 2>crew they were all like, next time you see that guy,

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:51.639
<v Speaker 2>you call us and we're gonna go and scare him

0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 2>off so that he doesn't bother you anymore. And one night, Roger,

0:24:56.200 --> 0:24:59.359
<v Speaker 2>he's at home and he gets a call from Eula

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and she's like, my ex boyfriend sent two of his

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.439
<v Speaker 2>tufts here and they're they're holding us hostage and you

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.800
<v Speaker 2>need to get here right away, Roger. So Roger gets

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:12.600
<v Speaker 2>out of bed and he speeds over there. He's like,

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 2>just stall them until I get there. So Roger drives

0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:21.200
<v Speaker 2>through the snow as fast as he can to EULA's place.

0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.960
<v Speaker 2>When Roger walks in, he just sees the two toughs

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:28.479
<v Speaker 2>who have their back to him and his buddy from

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:32.760
<v Speaker 2>his crew. He's bleeding from his face and ULA's clothing

0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 2>is ripped. Roger says that both of these guys, they

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.920
<v Speaker 2>just looked like they looked huge and like they were twins.

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:42.200
<v Speaker 1>He said, they looked like they were.

0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Both from from like a mob movie or something. These

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:49.240
<v Speaker 2>two guys with like their snap hats or their paper

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.600
<v Speaker 2>boy hat type thing. And I just wanted to read

0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>this one moment.

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 1>That that I'm obsessed with. Sorry, right right here it is.

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 2>So. So Roger walks in and he says, dream like

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 2>no one uttered a word and made a move as

0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>all eyes watched me calmly remove my gloves top coat

0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:20.879
<v Speaker 2>and sport jacket, draping them carefully over the back of

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 2>a chair. Quickly I crossed the room, and turning my

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.639
<v Speaker 2>back on the tufts, I faced my buddy and asked

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:32.919
<v Speaker 2>one question of him, do they have pieces? Not waiting

0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:36.240
<v Speaker 2>for an answer, I suddenly pivoted and caught the first

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.399
<v Speaker 2>tough flush on the mouth with a looping right that

0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:43.480
<v Speaker 2>splintered his teeth and sent him sprawling backwards onto the

0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:44.439
<v Speaker 2>bathroom floor.

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:46.880
<v Speaker 1>And then this starts this.

0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:52.879
<v Speaker 2>Insane, this insanely violent scene where Roger fights both of

0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:58.399
<v Speaker 2>these Tufts at the same time, and he claims, he

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:02.800
<v Speaker 2>claims that he punched out this one guy and he's

0:27:02.800 --> 0:27:06.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of laying on the ground, leaned against the refrigerator,

0:27:07.160 --> 0:27:09.680
<v Speaker 2>and he kicks the guy in the side of the head,

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:13.439
<v Speaker 2>and Roger claims that the guy's eye popped out a

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.040
<v Speaker 2>little bit and remained popped out for the rest of

0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:21.439
<v Speaker 2>the scuffle. And Roger ends up like throwing both of

0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 2>them out of there and chasing them up the stairs

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.560
<v Speaker 2>out of the basement suite, and they both like run

0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:31.359
<v Speaker 2>off to their escape car. And then Ulas says, I've

0:27:31.400 --> 0:27:34.879
<v Speaker 2>never seen anything like that before, not in the club,

0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 2>and not even in the movies, Ula says in rapid French.

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:43.399
<v Speaker 4>Isn't it also like I always have this image of

0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:45.240
<v Speaker 4>this guy with his eyeball hanging out and you know,

0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:45.920
<v Speaker 4>running away.

0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:47.160
<v Speaker 3>I know.

0:27:48.240 --> 0:27:51.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we watch a lot of UFC fights and I

0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:53.040
<v Speaker 4>have and I've seen some headcakes.

0:27:53.080 --> 0:27:54.959
<v Speaker 3>I've never seen the eyeball pop I've never seen an

0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:55.760
<v Speaker 3>eyeball pop out.

0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:57.960
<v Speaker 1>So that's a pretty good talent.

0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:01.159
<v Speaker 2>But maybe that's maybe that's why we didn't include this

0:28:01.200 --> 0:28:04.880
<v Speaker 2>story is because we're skeptical. It's like the eyeball detail

0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:10.199
<v Speaker 2>makes me skeptical of the whole thing. I'm glad that

0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:14.439
<v Speaker 2>we found a home in this episode for some of

0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>our favorite little snapshots from the book and little side

0:28:18.680 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 2>quests that we didn't.

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:21.959
<v Speaker 1>Find a home for in the series.

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:24.640
<v Speaker 2>So thanks for going through these ways.

0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:27.680
<v Speaker 4>Now we can take things off the board. So corkboard,

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:29.840
<v Speaker 4>so we did actually talk about that's empty ess.

0:28:29.840 --> 0:28:32.359
<v Speaker 3>Board, all right?

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:35.120
<v Speaker 1>I think.

0:28:54.360 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 5>Go Boy is a production from Campside Media in partnership

0:28:57.840 --> 0:29:03.280
<v Speaker 5>with iHeart Podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 5>wherever you get your podcasts. Go Boy was written and

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:11.280
<v Speaker 5>hosted by me Sam Mollins. Our producer is Rob Lindsay

0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:16.840
<v Speaker 5>of Paradox Pictures. Laine Rose is our senior producer. Sound design,

0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:21.720
<v Speaker 5>mix and engineering by Garrett Tiedeman, original music by Garrett

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:27.840
<v Speaker 5>tiedemant fact checking by Michael Kenyon Meyer. Selected archival clips

0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 5>are from CBC Licensing. The book Go Boy was written

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:37.400
<v Speaker 5>by Roger Kuran. iHeart Podcasts executive producers are Lindsay Hoffman

0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:44.840
<v Speaker 5>and Jennifer Bassett. Campside Media's executive producers are Josh Dean, Vanessa, Gregoriatis,

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 5>Adam hoff and Matt Cher.

0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:48.800
<v Speaker 1>A special thanks to our.

0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:54.680
<v Speaker 5>Operations team Doug Slaywyn, Ashley Lawren, Sabina Marra and Destiny Dingle.

0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:58.360
<v Speaker 5>If you enjoyed Go Boy, please rate and review the

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 5>show wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening.