WEBVTT - Get the Money and Run | Life on the Inside

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Loya has agreed to answer our questions, so please

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<v Speaker 1>send yours to info at Orbitmedia dot fm or leave

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<v Speaker 1>them in the comments on Spotify or Apple.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Hire there Steve Fishman from Orbit Media. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>Get the Money and Run. A warning, today's episode gets dark.

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<v Speaker 1>If Joe has made crimes seem like a lot of fun,

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<v Speaker 1>well that's about to change over to Ben.

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<v Speaker 3>You are listening to The Burden season four, Get the

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<v Speaker 3>Money and Run. I'm Benadair and this is episode six,

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<v Speaker 3>Life on the Inside.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, Joe, I have a question. We had talked about

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<v Speaker 4>how you took your friend to go rob for you.

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<v Speaker 4>Your friend who it turns out, looks a lot like you,

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<v Speaker 4>and he got iddas you. But it turns out when

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<v Speaker 4>they went to check the cameras, he was four inches shorter,

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<v Speaker 4>and that made the FBI think that you had this

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<v Speaker 4>double out there, and I assume it through the eyewitness

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<v Speaker 4>identification under suspicion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it was actually when I called courters

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<v Speaker 2>because I I had explained to my dad and courtus

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<v Speaker 2>I had not been in that bank. I swore in

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<v Speaker 2>my mother's grave I had not been in that bank.

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<v Speaker 2>So when courtis went to especially in quarters that is,

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<v Speaker 2>went to go look at the film. I called him

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<v Speaker 2>and he says, okay, Joe, I'm going to tell you

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<v Speaker 2>something right now, and you need to pay attention. These

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<v Speaker 2>women were robbed and within a couple hours they both

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<v Speaker 2>falsely identified you and they had just been robbed. The

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<v Speaker 2>women we've been going to you robbed thirteen months ago,

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<v Speaker 2>ten months ago, nine months ago, eight months ago. That

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<v Speaker 2>makes all of those suspect too, because of these two

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<v Speaker 2>women who had just been robbed by you could be

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<v Speaker 2>so wrong right now, all of those are suspect. He's

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<v Speaker 2>basically saying, this is your argument with your lawyer. You

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<v Speaker 2>need to tell him you got to double.

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<v Speaker 4>So suddenly you're not going to jail for sixteen or

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<v Speaker 4>even thirty banks Banks.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going for three for three. So they say, listen,

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<v Speaker 2>we got you in these three. That's you in the photo,

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<v Speaker 2>and not only that, you're the right height in this one.

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<v Speaker 2>These three we got you on. We believe we could

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<v Speaker 2>take it to trial and we win. We want to

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<v Speaker 2>risk trial or do you want to just plead out?

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, where do I sign? Going down?

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<v Speaker 2>For what I was looking at is possibly thirty years.

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<v Speaker 2>When they were talking about it in the beginning to

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<v Speaker 2>eight years, I'm like, hell, yeah, let's do this right now,

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<v Speaker 2>easy choice.

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<v Speaker 5>Easy call, Part one falling in.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I'm in a holding cell and then I

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<v Speaker 2>hear a helicopter outside and my body freeze. What the fuck?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>And then I realized, Oh, I'm already cott. I'm already cott.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have to wait. And then one thing I

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<v Speaker 2>think you remember was like, Oh, thank fucking God, for

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<v Speaker 2>the next age two years, I don't have to worry

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<v Speaker 2>about a helicopter. Like my body was like I could

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<v Speaker 2>let go of fear of a helicopter. And I also

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<v Speaker 2>chuckled because in that moment, I realized, Oh, that's where

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<v Speaker 2>that phrase you were rescued, you weren't arrested comes from,

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<v Speaker 2>because I was like, I felt like I was more

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<v Speaker 2>rescued in that moment from the fear and anxiety of

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<v Speaker 2>being a fugitive, and like, oh, I I could sell.

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<v Speaker 3>Joe.

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<v Speaker 4>Let me ask you, it sounds like you're getting in

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<v Speaker 4>pretty deep. Did you really know, like really understand what

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<v Speaker 4>you were getting into.

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<v Speaker 2>No, federal prison. I didn't know what I was getting into.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't prepared for it in a lot of ways.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't prepared for the kind of crimes I could

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<v Speaker 2>get away with behind bars there and you basic things

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, you can make weapons, you can get

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<v Speaker 2>drugs smuggled in in the FEDS. Everything was a hustle everything.

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<v Speaker 2>It was an economy man. I saw things I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>expect to see. I mean stuff that you would see

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<v Speaker 2>on TV and things like that's impossible. Like I saw

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<v Speaker 2>a guy get lit on fire in his cell. I

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<v Speaker 2>could see it from my window. It is late at night,

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<v Speaker 2>and he just went up. His hair went up and

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<v Speaker 2>he was screaming in his cell. And then the cell

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<v Speaker 2>next to him it went up. But the guy wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>on fire. It was just parts of his bed were

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<v Speaker 2>on fire. And then the third sound next, some guy

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<v Speaker 2>had been in there screwtin acidtne in the sounds the

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<v Speaker 2>night when they were sleeping, and the guy was walking

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<v Speaker 2>down the tier and he just lit them on fire.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember watching that and thinking, shit, that could happen

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<v Speaker 2>here too, Like I know staff, he's gonna have it.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you get choked out. I know somebody could

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<v Speaker 2>come and strangle you with a with a with a sheet,

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<v Speaker 2>turn it into a rope. I know, a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>things should happen here in there, and I'm finding watching

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<v Speaker 2>them like shit, they could like to on fire too, goddamn.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was and it was dark and it was

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful night out. It was clear, and that sound just

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<v Speaker 2>lit up. Prisons are chaos. It just really is total chaos.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, guys would squirt ship on guards when they

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<v Speaker 2>would come to feed them if they are mad at them.

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<v Speaker 2>They got their shampoo bottle and they put some of

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<v Speaker 2>their ship in there, stirred it up and just and

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<v Speaker 2>there would be this long stream of ship chasing a

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<v Speaker 2>guard off the tier. Like it was. It was madness.

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<v Speaker 2>It was crazy at that level. Guys just in care.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't like a guy, he didn't like me. We

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<v Speaker 2>were talking ship to each other, and so I was

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<v Speaker 2>under impression when we were like, okay, let's meet out

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<v Speaker 2>in the reckyard. So I had a sawmide, He had

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<v Speaker 2>a saw meade. And what they would do is the

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<v Speaker 2>guards would come in. They would open all this the

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<v Speaker 2>food trap doors and all the sale. All the guys

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<v Speaker 2>who were going to come out to wreck. He and

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<v Speaker 2>I were going to go down there and then we

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<v Speaker 2>were going to have it out well. They open up

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<v Speaker 2>the food traps and all the doors. The guys who

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<v Speaker 2>are going to go out to wreck. You stand there

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<v Speaker 2>with your hands behind your back. A guard comes and

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<v Speaker 2>he handcuffs you through this little slot. He handcuffs you.

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<v Speaker 2>He opens your door, he opens twelve. The door opens,

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<v Speaker 2>you step out, and you go wait towards the front

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<v Speaker 2>of the tier, and there's guards moving out there doing this,

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<v Speaker 2>and then they close the tier and they go to

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<v Speaker 2>the next south. They know nobody's walking you over there.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's for a minute, there's a guys just moving

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<v Speaker 2>around the south. We're all handcuffed behind our back. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I saw him get out of his cell, walk

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<v Speaker 2>over to another cell with his hands behind his back,

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<v Speaker 2>and that door was open, and I saw a guy

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<v Speaker 2>slide a knife into his back with his hand, so

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<v Speaker 2>I knew he was gonna stab me. Wow. The difference

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<v Speaker 2>between me and him is I did the same move

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<v Speaker 2>to a friend of mine, But a friend of mine

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<v Speaker 2>didn't just put a knife in my hand. He unhandcuffed me.

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<v Speaker 2>So this guy's walking over all cool, hiding the knife under,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in his clothing. As he's walking back, hands

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<v Speaker 2>behind his back and he's thinking we're gonna get unhandcuffed,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he's gonna make a move on me. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't wait for that. I now have a weapon. I

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<v Speaker 2>have no handcuffs on me, and so I go over

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<v Speaker 2>them where he's standing. I think he's all come on.

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<v Speaker 2>Walking up to him, I kick him in the balls.

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<v Speaker 2>He bends over and boom boop. I just gab him

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<v Speaker 2>real quick. I get taken the solitary confinement. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>just get taken a solitary confinement. I get taken to

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<v Speaker 2>the basement of solitary confinement. Everyone down there was hardcore.

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<v Speaker 2>It was guys had killed other men in the prison.

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<v Speaker 2>There's fourteen cels. That was terrible. That was terrible.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll be right back part two.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole. Because you're in solitary and because you're by

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<v Speaker 2>yourself and you're so fucking erotic, you start breaking on

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<v Speaker 2>the conversation. Wait, what do you mean by that? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that motherfucker thinks I'm a punk. Oh, I got some differens.

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<v Speaker 2>Ask I'll fuck that. Next time I get loose, I'll

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<v Speaker 2>go it like. You can just be, you can let

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<v Speaker 2>your mind go crazy and you can concoct all sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of plots and intrigues against you, and you can ascribe

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<v Speaker 2>all certain manner of disrespect coming from that man's heart

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<v Speaker 2>towards you, and plot the fucking end of his days.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the group of men I was in. There was

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<v Speaker 2>killers there. There was just so much. My brain took

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<v Speaker 2>in all that crazy and violence and menace, and now

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't get it anyone. Like, if you've ever gone

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<v Speaker 2>out of your handcuffs, they don't ever give me a

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<v Speaker 2>chance to get out of your handcuffs again. They're not

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<v Speaker 2>only a handcuff you. They put a big black box

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<v Speaker 2>around this handcuff and they locked that underneath. And I

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<v Speaker 2>was just like, it's terrible. You can't move, you can

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<v Speaker 2>barely barely move. See. I was starting to get all

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<v Speaker 2>this rage just building up in me like it usually did,

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<v Speaker 2>but I would always be able to find a victim.

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<v Speaker 2>And now I'm like it just cannibalized me and went inward.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. I just was hating myself, hating life, and

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<v Speaker 2>I just had And then I was this is the

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<v Speaker 2>most tense place I've ever been. That tier was the

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<v Speaker 2>most tense place I've ever been. And everybody was imaginations

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<v Speaker 2>were completely fucked I mean everyone was fucked it. Just

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<v Speaker 2>I had a clear mind of like, I fucking hate it,

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<v Speaker 2>I hate life, I hate myself, fuck everything, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like and it just went inward. So first thing that

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<v Speaker 2>started happening was, you know, writing. I was up. I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't sleep right, chatty as fuck with myself, like writing

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, obsessively between words and man, what's going on?

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<v Speaker 2>Like almost like if you saw me in there, you

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<v Speaker 2>would hear me like not talking to myself. But there

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<v Speaker 2>was a voice in my head. There was a racing mind,

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<v Speaker 2>racing right, I'd be that guy if I was outside.

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<v Speaker 2>I had a bunch of notebooks and I explaining the

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<v Speaker 2>whole universe kind of thing. And then I started hearing

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<v Speaker 2>the voices in my head. First wasn't voices. First was

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<v Speaker 2>like I felt like there's somebody's going wrong with my hearing.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it was at a party and I was in

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<v Speaker 2>the bathroom and I could hear outside the door, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>like of a party going on, right, no noise, no voice, nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>And then one day I heard Joe And I'm lying

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<v Speaker 2>down in bed and I get up and I go

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<v Speaker 2>look out there, and I'm like, what the fuck was that?

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<v Speaker 2>Nothing nobody like, hey, Joe, man, you got a book,

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<v Speaker 2>And nobody called. A couple of days there Joe, like

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<v Speaker 2>a voice was coming above the den. Was the den

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<v Speaker 2>always there? I was always there. I was always there,

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<v Speaker 2>stayed there. I was like, oh, one day I was

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<v Speaker 2>at my desk and I hear Joe and I turned around. Joe.

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<v Speaker 2>The first time, I thought maybe a homeboy was fucking

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<v Speaker 2>with me or something. I didn't have a home book.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I thought maybe someone was sucking me. And

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<v Speaker 2>then so I used to play concentration games where I

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<v Speaker 2>would look at one spot on the wall and if

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<v Speaker 2>you look at one spot on the wall on you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's hard on your eyes. I just want to move.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was challenging five minutes the first time. I

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<v Speaker 2>eventually got up to an hour and like psychedelic shit

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<v Speaker 2>starts happening around that one spot. And eventually, because the

0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 2>world is moving and your eyes are moving, nothing is

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<v Speaker 2>steal and your eyes moved, and so that spot will

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<v Speaker 2>start moving. And so it was like, oh shit, it's

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.920
<v Speaker 2>moving and I'm watching it move. And then it became

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>a horse galloping, and then it became I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh fuck, something's happening. It's kind of cool. But what

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<v Speaker 2>ended up happening? One day I'm looking at that spot

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<v Speaker 2>and then all of a sudden, it was a face

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<v Speaker 2>and it morphed into another face. It's like, oh fuck,

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<v Speaker 2>that's crazy. It wasn't where I was looking at, ended

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<v Speaker 2>up migrating over here to where I looked over here.

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<v Speaker 2>It was in my vision. Now to go my vision.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, wow, that's crazy. So next day I do

0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.560
<v Speaker 2>it again, except this time when I pull away, it's

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 2>showing it again. I close my eyes and it's in

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.960
<v Speaker 2>It's in the darkness in my head, in my eyes.

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.160
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh fuck, the dean is getting louder.

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 2>And now it kind of it feels like there's voices

0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 2>but you can't make them out. But now instead of

0:15:34.320 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 2>like it's like I get more animated. Right John, Well,

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 2>one day I hear something. I turn around and there's

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.120
<v Speaker 2>a little bald boy standing in the corner of my

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 2>cell and I'm totally shocked and I'm totally scared. I

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 2>feel like I'm going mad. I'm going mad. I'm going mad.

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm going mad.

0:16:46.840 --> 0:17:11.560
<v Speaker 3>We'll be right back Part three. Dig your way out.

0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 4>So Joe, you see this bald boy in your cell

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.119
<v Speaker 4>and you feel like you're going mad. What happens next?

0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Memories started coming from that period of time with my

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 2>mother still alive, and all it just stories of my

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:30.800
<v Speaker 2>innocence came.

0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 4>How did you like, how did the memory of your

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.679
<v Speaker 4>mom and the memory of your dad kind of play

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.840
<v Speaker 4>in that story being created?

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:44.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, the thing was that all of a sudden, my

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 2>mother's alive again in my memory. Right as I've I've

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.960
<v Speaker 2>been thinking of my mother's dead. I never really thought

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.040
<v Speaker 2>that much about her was life, And in this memory

0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.640
<v Speaker 2>my mother was still healthy. So I was like, oh,

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.159
<v Speaker 2>this is real innocence. My mother's healthy. And then I

0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 2>started having memories and my mother healthy at that time

0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 2>when I was seven on de Land Street, Man, I

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 2>remembered all sorts of stuff. What it was mostly about

0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.560
<v Speaker 2>was that we were happy in those days. That was

0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 2>a happy time. My mom and dad. I remember they

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.160
<v Speaker 2>laughed because on that street I used to go down

0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 2>the block. There was a guy who did repairs on

0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>bikes and I would go there to get free air

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.399
<v Speaker 2>on my tires and stuff. And then my mom and

0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 2>dad went there once and the guy was like, hey,

0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 2>you know your son been coming here, I've been fixing

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:42.760
<v Speaker 2>his bike and doing these things. So you guys owe

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.400
<v Speaker 2>me a little bit of money. And my dad came

0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>home and he wasn't mad, and neither was my mom. Like, hey,

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 2>you can't just got that guy, I said, But he

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.359
<v Speaker 2>gave me free air that yeah, he said, yeah, but

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:53.520
<v Speaker 2>all that other stuff stuff free. You can't just do that.

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 2>But they weren't mad. They weren't mad. I was just

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 2>a little seven year old boy, and I loved and

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 2>that guy loved me down there, and everyone in the

0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.360
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood knew me like it was like that kind of thing.

0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.639
<v Speaker 2>So I was remembering a pristine period of time in

0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.919
<v Speaker 2>which I was loved and nurtured and safe and everyone

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:27.440
<v Speaker 2>was healthy and I was innocent. And there I am

0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.240
<v Speaker 2>contrasting where I am not fucking going mad and solitary

0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.560
<v Speaker 2>confinement all those years later, with all the terrible things

0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 2>I'd done, all my conscience. I earned that place in

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 2>that dungeon, but that, you know, all the terrible things

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 2>were going on, all the things i'd become cheering on,

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.040
<v Speaker 2>the shit on the guards and the burning, the fires

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.760
<v Speaker 2>and whatever, the stabbings and other man like, all that

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.879
<v Speaker 2>stuff that I was, and now there's a time for

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.160
<v Speaker 2>me to remember how was a sweet kid. I was like, wait,

0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck? Like this memory came up. It was

0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 2>like the dirtiest fucking ground in the dirtiest fucking neighborhood

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.280
<v Speaker 2>in the United States, and there's this beautiful little flower

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.120
<v Speaker 2>coming out of the concrete. That's what it felt like. Man,

0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what the fuck, there's some beauty under here somewhere,

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.119
<v Speaker 2>like to be reintroduced to myself in that story. And

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.000
<v Speaker 2>then it started happening, and I started saying, wait, this

0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 2>wasn't this wasn't determined that I would be this guy.

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.159
<v Speaker 2>There's all this other evidence. I'm a kind of a

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 2>sweet guy, a nice guy. I could have been something else.

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.359
<v Speaker 2>And so I just started writing stories from my past.

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.919
<v Speaker 2>That's it felt good and terrible. I feel shitty to

0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 2>write out things that happened to me. We had all

0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.240
<v Speaker 2>these talks growing up. Well, God break me, God break

0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:56.080
<v Speaker 2>guess what. I fucking just got humbled fucking all day

0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:01.440
<v Speaker 2>long with that thing. It was. It was humbling, Jody.

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.919
<v Speaker 4>You feel like if you hadn't been in solitary, that

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:05.320
<v Speaker 4>any of this would have happened.

0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.880
<v Speaker 2>In the Bible, the book that I knew, the piece

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:13.560
<v Speaker 2>of literature I knew the most of the stories. I knew.

0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.919
<v Speaker 2>Most about Found Redemption was that all the men who

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.879
<v Speaker 2>did something great all went to the desert, and they

0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.240
<v Speaker 2>all had to grapple with the hell of themselves. Jesus

0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 2>forty days and forty nights, Moses in the desert, Saint Paul,

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>he becomes a Christian. He spends nine years studying the

0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 2>scriptures before he becomes the greatest missionary ever. David wrote

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.760
<v Speaker 2>the Psalms and the Caves. You know what he was

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.240
<v Speaker 2>hiding from Saul. You saw. So now what I'm doing

0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:49.720
<v Speaker 2>is I'm in solitary confinement. And after this happens, it

0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:57.840
<v Speaker 2>fits right into my thinking that oh this is my

0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:06.520
<v Speaker 2>trial alone. I have to confront myself. Everyone had to

0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:12.000
<v Speaker 2>deal with their solitude. Everyone you want to make great

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.119
<v Speaker 2>change in your life, and all the great changes of

0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:18.119
<v Speaker 2>the men that I had studied growing up, it happened

0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:27.400
<v Speaker 2>in solitude. Terrible solitude, anguish want to kill themselves, solitude.

0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:31.000
<v Speaker 2>And now I was in it, and I was like, well,

0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 2>maybe this is actually what I'm supposed to do. This

0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:37.280
<v Speaker 2>is it? And when I was a boy and they

0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.719
<v Speaker 2>said plan we have a plan for you. God has

0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 2>a plan for you. Maybe this is it. To get

0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:44.000
<v Speaker 2>right here like everyone else did, oh the great men

0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that I had admired and the mystics, this is it.

0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm in my solitude. I gotta better figure out how

0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>to do something with a solitude. I better figure out

0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:55.880
<v Speaker 2>how to let a higher harmony assert itself in here

0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:02.360
<v Speaker 2>than the madness. And that's what I work to try

0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:10.720
<v Speaker 2>and do, to try and earn that mantle. Solitary, worst

0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.440
<v Speaker 2>experience of my life. Guess what, paradoxically, because I believe

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 2>in paradox one of the best experiences of my life,

0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:21.040
<v Speaker 2>because it created the occasion for me to observe something

0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:25.239
<v Speaker 2>about myself, to experience something so deeply, this humility, that

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.640
<v Speaker 2>it created this propulsion another way in a very dramatic fashion. Right.

0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:34.640
<v Speaker 2>So I'm broken, I'm fractured. I'm not as strong anymore.

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Now I gotta be careful because if I want to

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:45.159
<v Speaker 2>even think about changing, how the fuck is I'm setting

0:23:45.200 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 2>myself up? That was scary, super fucking scary.

0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:07.639
<v Speaker 3>You are listening to The Burden season four Got The

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.800
<v Speaker 3>Money and Run. The Burden is produced by Orbit Media.

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.440
<v Speaker 3>That The Money and Run is produced by Western Sound

0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:19.640
<v Speaker 3>and Acast Studios. Next up season finale, episode seven, Fatal Peril.

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening, Remember to hear all episodes all at

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 1>once and ad free. Subscribe to True Crime Clubhouse on

0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts. It's worth it. You'll find other gripping true

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.240
<v Speaker 1>crime series there also ad free. If you want to

0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:44.240
<v Speaker 1>hear Ben talk about this episode, check out the teaser

0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:46.520
<v Speaker 1>It's in the Burden feed